subtlety

[vale pine]

its actually soo much better than gems

[last gate]

should i change anything for tazavesh street?

kinda new to sub 😄

cant force my self to CB on 2nd sectec

[vale pine]

looks fine, you can rotten -> finality if you want

[last gate]

i guess its a good idea cause i cant use one rotten for Shuriken storm for weaken armor 😄

ty

[lavish nebula]

!log

[sacred gull]

during shadow dance in 4+ targets I generate combo with shadow strike or shuriken storm ?

guides don't say the same ^^'

[limpid sage]

shadowstrike, only shuriken storm if you're in between coups

[sacred gull]

ok

thx

[limpid sage]

or outside of dance obviously

[vale pine]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[fair cloak]

Sometimes i get random cups when off dance and low energy

Do I send them as 3p 4p or wait and do 7p

[vale pine]

just use them

6+ cp

[fair cloak]

Oke

[meager coyote]

do I want to be spending coups in big aoe scenarios or do I just keep BPing?

I sort of couldn't find that mentioned in places I looked

[real hare]

Thank you

[last gate]

can i send CDG naked?

or it will be treated like sectec?

[willow bobcat]

Use it

Scroll up like 4 lines from the comment you replied to

[vale pine]

whats cdg

[meager coyote]

coup

[vale pine]

just use it

[meager coyote]

ye

[vale pine]

unless flag is up soon

then hold it

[meager coyote]

yeah I was gonna ask, can u give me an idea of how to do the CDs when I have like CPs stored and a coup ready?

[haughty rose]

do you guys complain about chainpulls in m+ pug or have you given up on it already? don't know why but last season wasn't such a chainpull massacre

[meager coyote]

I find myself pressing flag, coup, 4set coup into SD/usual cds, which can't possibly be correct if I have a bunch of CPs stored up

[meager coyote]

don't think chainpulls matter at all as sub??

[haughty rose]

they do for TFD

[inner garnet]

I see alot of places that people say that "we dont use The Rotten this season" - yet on warcraft logs all the top sub in high keys are having The Rotten? Is it still the way to go?

[junior lintel]

Can anyone elaborate on the different m+ talent changes i can do to optimize for specific dungeons? -and is it even worth to swap for each dungeon

[meager coyote]

the time lost on sitting around for 6+ seconds (cos it's buggy as fuck) is not worth TFD imho, someone correct me if I'm wrong

[haughty rose]

would love to hear some science about it too from @vale pine maybe? but it feels huge actually. longer dance means more dance and more evis

[meager coyote]

cos that's like 6 seconds of group-wide downtime vs w.e TFD gives you in dps, don't have a "backed up" answer but just going by my experience it seems like a huge loss overall, esp if u are trying to force it over a whole key in bad spots

[haughty rose]

and it doesn't feel too buggy on trash. on bosses i agree

[limpid sage]

not buggy anymore

actually starts out of combat

so whatever is buggy related to tfd is related to you getting in combat randomly

[meager coyote]

nah the amount of times I am sitting in stealth between trash pulls expecting the buff to come up just to end up sitting there for 8 seconds and then get put into combat by the next patck is insane I don't buy it being fixed

[haughty rose]

sometimes countdown continues on the start of boss fights

[inner garnet]

whats TFD? ^^

[meager coyote]

the first dance

[haughty rose]

"Remaining out of combat for 6 sec increases the duration of your next Shadow Dance by 4 sec."

[limpid sage]

ye but not when you're in combat

some bosses put you in combat the second they're pulled some don't

[haughty rose]

ah ok i see

so it's always the same bosses basically

[limpid sage]

and with mobs it's the same deal - it's because combat is bugged, not TFD

[haughty rose]

i feel like it works most of the time if i just keep distance

[limpid sage]

if mobs have some aoe ability for example you'll be pulled into combat even though you're in stealth

[meager coyote]

as I said I am open to being disputed/corrected on what I said here but I am having a hard time believing that, cos assa gains a lot more (to my understanding) from restealths yet you'll still just chainpull in a lot of the cases with an assa in ur group, so sitting around as a party for TFD can't possibly be correct

[haughty rose]

anyway, question remains if 6 second downtime are worth the wait

[limpid sage]

I don't think it's worth the party sitting around either

only think it's worth if you're hanging around in the background in between pulls

as you do nothing outside of dances anyway

except maybe if you're not on a race against the timer and might as well wait for full burst to be up

[meager coyote]

yeah if u can manage to pull it off solo then it's worth for u, but due to how fucked tfd is it's just not gonna pay off 99% of the time imho

[tall girder]

how use netherprism on sub is it just with cds or on cd

[vale pine]

with blades

[limpid sage]

I'd agree in the past, but not since they fixed it

[vale pine]

if you have double on use

[meager coyote]

and yes, it's combat that's bugged not tfd, the outcome is the same so my point stands

[vale pine]

forge -> prism -> forge -> prism

[tall girder]

i just got netherprism atm

[vale pine]

on certain fights might benefit from not using it for one blades

[mint swift]

Is this a guide on how to manufacture prisms using a blacksmith forge

[limpid sage]

well you can play around combat easier than past TFD

[vale pine]

haha yes, it is

[torpid snow]

Yo, does it bug out like that for you too? Should I even care about it or just ignore it? Btw I’m running netherpis + ara

[meager coyote]

that might be the case, but sitting super far in stealth behind LOS for 6 seconds watching the WA tick down just to be put into combat by blizzards intervention in last nanosecond and not gain TFD gets me way more tilted and loses me way more time than just following the chain kekw

[vestal escarp]

lock this shit in wcl cmoooon

[limpid sage]

ye that is super tilting as well xd

if it wasn't because weaponmaster is disgustingly bad I'd use that instead

[last gate]

what you guys crafted as 3rd item

!log

[radiant hound]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[torpid snow]

im ignore it ?

[hearty flint]

How do you tell when you have 4 set proc so you know not to use bs/ss?

[upbeat escarp]

When you use coup and you have coup again

[void ocean]

do u guys think it would be good for hc fights which are like 3-ish mins long to go prism -> forge -> prism

[lofty cave]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lofty cave]

macro fo dance and backstab

!macro shadowdance backstab

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[north schooner]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[north schooner]

unless you get a damage amp for that last prism I don't see that being any better. You are wasting TFD on a flaccid prism

[tribal blade]

so i'm too afraid to step dimensius at the start of P3 to get insta in melee for the amp

seen a bunch of clips of people walking into him

if you step>don't move you'll be safe yeah?

[honest saddle]

you aint gonna kill it the first time to p3 so just step and say fuck it imo

but I think it's safe to step

[autumn condor]

!log

Any gamers able to take a look would be much appreciated

[tribal blade]

oh my guild is nowhere close to him haha, was just wondering in general

[honest saddle]

I am looking at your log

@nova cairn

not a lot to say

[autumn condor]

Big ping

[honest saddle]

I mean it's real solid

[tribal blade]

@short radish i'm watching a wow highlights reel and it includes arcane mages 1 shotting people with barrage

so it seems like arcane is busted in the entire big 3 of wow content

raid, M+ and pvp

[fleet wharf]

whats that 3rd category?

[tribal blade]

uh

oh you're memeing haha

[runic trail]

Delves

[tribal blade]

it's that content i used to do

and stopped doing because i kept getting omega tilted

plus pvping with 200 ms on wow is unplayable at times

[fleet wharf]

true. Also, it sucks that you can't even farm crates if you're horde

[runic trail]

Is pushing for title better?

[fleet wharf]

well day 1 farming fucking blew chunks

[tribal blade]

honestly yes

i rage WAY less than when i used to pvp

i used to get so mad when i was pvping

unreasonably angry

[twin oriole]

hey, i just started playing sub this patch and wanted to ask about symbols usage with Secret Technique

i thiunk we always want to use Secret Technique right after Symbols, but during the opener ST becomes available while there's still time remaining on the duration of our first SoD. should I clip my first SoD with a second one so i can immediately use ST, or should i just be pressing Eviscerate/BP until that first symbols is over? it sounds wrong because each finisher would reduce the CD on ST and build a third one quicker

[tribal blade]

my brother also put it best back when he used to play wow, pvp in wow is impossible to balance because of the drastic differences between classes and specs

[tribal blade]

don't worry about overlapping symbols

it's more important you supercharge sectec

[north schooner]

symbols pandemic anyway

[tribal blade]

true it does pandemic

[short radish]

so this is why having execute and burst is illegal

and why sub can't have execute

[tribal blade]

we aren't blizz' golden boys true

[fleet wharf]

did sub ever have execute though?

[acoustic matrix]

Meaning you can refresh it under 3,5s and not waste uptime

[fleet wharf]

i thought that was sin niche

not that our niches matter because it eventually becomes sin niches

[tribal blade]

indirectly with banshee's blight dagger

that's the 1 time

(which everyone thinks should become a sub talent)

[short radish]

make banshees blight a sub talent

and give us netherprism

somehow

[acoustic matrix]

Lol

[tribal blade]

netherprism that doesn't reset on death

por favor

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

so toxic

[short radish]

we're not asking for too much

[fleet wharf]

I think it's ok for the trink to reset if you die

[tribal blade]

oh and pretty please give combo back

[fleet wharf]

I just hope blizz regularly release spymaster trinkets moving forward though

[tribal blade]

it's incredibly tilting when you die through no fault of your own

[short radish]

I LOVE IT WHEN THE TANK RANDOMLY FALLS OVER

[fleet wharf]

yea, but that's the "tradeoff" using the spymaster trinket

[short radish]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[fleet wharf]

you have no clue how annoying it was as caster to die in keys lmao

[north schooner]

depends on how far back you are allowed to go, but yes in theory

[acoustic matrix]

Flame your healer

[fleet wharf]

at least as rogue has cheat death

[tribal blade]

I LOVE IT WHEN IN A 16 STREETS I GET DOUBLE CASTED ON AND MY KICK IS ON CD

[fleet wharf]

well not for keys you're running prophet, but you chose that life for yourself

[tribal blade]

haha fair enough

[alpine wraith]

sometimes you have to run away to LoS

[nova cairn]

Wrong ruby

[alpine wraith]

sometimes you just accept you ded

[autumn condor]

Its a classic

[nova cairn]

Who tf

is this imposter

[tribal blade]

it's the exact same thing as sin losing mark on death

[nova cairn]

[tribal blade]

which is just as illegal

[autumn condor]

I'm number 1 Ronk fan you're number 1 Oxi fan we are not the same

[nova cairn]

Frfr

[acoustic matrix]

Pretty sure you survive double cast with evasion + feint

[tribal blade]

am i seeing double

what's happening

am i high

[nova cairn]

Until this day

[tribal blade]

i think the outlaws are multiplying

[nova cairn]

you have never seen us in the same room

[honest saddle]

Was it. Maybe I wanted you.

[acoustic matrix]

Gayz

[nova cairn]

WOAH

[honest saddle]

It's 2025. I'm married

but if I wanna be gay

I can be gay

isn't that right... RUBY

[nova cairn]

I always get confused when I am pinged... in sub disc

[acoustic matrix]

He's going 180

[tribal blade]

i'm so tempted to ping whispyr right now in here

[nova cairn]

I only ever usually get pinged buy @sly shore with a le bosh meme

[tribal blade]

so he can yell at me

[nova cairn]

YUP

[autumn condor]

Has he not faced enough abuse?

[honest saddle]

I already talked shit on him today @tribal blade and he came in and saw

[tribal blade]

true we keep questioning stat weights

[autumn condor]

[tribal blade]

HAHA helll yeahhhh

[honest saddle]

I said sin chat is more toxic and not friendly

[tribal blade]

i believe in his video "why stat weights are stupid and you piss me off"

[honest saddle]

because hes an asshole

[sly shore]

https://tenor.com/view/bosh-big-john-gif-1191997508994478481

[nova cairn]

Tell sentiax he's a big

[cobalt palm]

Hey, so struggling with the "whole send CB with the second sectec" cos im a smooth brain and before i realise I've hit the wrong version of the ability, simmed running tea in raid instead of CB and it's around a 60k dps loss, is there anyway to sim sending CB with the first sectec? I know this is a "get good" situation, just trying to see the difference in DPS

[alpine wraith]

it is more of a problem with using the macro because it will also use the cb sec tech when cb is off cd

then you wont have it at all for second set of cds

because smoother brain

so it ends up being like 1.x%

[cobalt palm]

Thank you, that makes sense - I'll keep working on it

been trying to avoid the macro but then I see CB still lit up after second CDs and doom

[strange fiber]

whats the % difference if u just dontt send it correctly

[hollow spear]

1.0 - 1.5%

in single target

I suspect it could be higher on fights like soulbinder where you play around add spawns

[cobalt palm]

and using tea is a 1.3% loss flat so even sending it wrong is better than altering my build

[fleet wharf]

you can also just pray to rng gods that your sec tech crits

don't need cb if you always highroll

[cobalt palm]

you make a compelling argument

[final violet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[final violet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[limpid sage]

@vale pine is there any reason we specifically wanna use Storm between Coups? Isn't it better if you use it before the first one and get a refund?

[meager coyote]

yeah I was gonna ask that too, if I have a coup ready in shadowblades is it optimal to go storm-coup-storm-coup?

[hazy breach]

Ye

But similar to the inbetween coup thing its minor

[limpid sage]

like 0.2%?

[hazy breach]

Just dont storm twice in dance

[shy beacon]

does it matter if we use backstab as 1st global into sd or if we do it after sectec? Im so used to shadowstrike since its the shared keybind for backstab/shadowstrike in stealth, and cant find a good keybind to press backstab first

[feral knot]

Premediation makes your 1st builder max cp

[hazy breach]

Your first builder should be backstab

Its fine to start the dance with full cp too

[shy beacon]

ahh gotta try and rebind or fix it somehow, cause Im so used to pressing shadowstrike keybind with dance and sod x.x

[topaz venture]

does aomeone use a wa that reminds them to send a symbols for supercharged?

if so, could they send

I just completely forget all the time

[short radish]

change your binds

so make your current sectech + cb bind

just sectech

and make a new one for sectech + cb

so you dont accidently press

[cobalt palm]

thank you just smacking the dummies with that now

im such a creature of habit with rotation stuff, need to break some bad habits

[limpid sage]

looks like it's 0.2% better/neutral to ignore backstab optimization if it's not first global in dance

[fleet wharf]

is that the value for this tier? it was like .5 last tier

[limpid sage]

I'd imagine that + the shuriken storm first global optimization could be a gain?

[nocturne hollow]

I have myth main and and heroic offhand, is it worth crafting a offhand 720 with focus lens?

[topaz venture]

sim urself

[fleet wharf]

is it still ~0.5% gain to bs as first global in dances?

[limpid sage]

ye I think so - haven't tested

if not more

think it was 1% increase last season?

[fleet wharf]

Thats what feelscraft says too but I was wondering if anyone had done the math

[limpid sage]

intuitively it should be more, given more dmg is on our finishers

[last gate]

anyone got time to log review ?:D

[vale pine]

just type !log, if anyone has time he will engage in the thread

[slate lantern]

Interesting I thought storm coup storm coup would be the move in dance if we had UB procs

[hazy breach]

Well you end up saving it just to have it proc outside dance

At which point why are we even saving it

[late elm]

how to improve https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FHgtC2vfbadBZhP4?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=5 or what im doing wrong 🙁

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[alpine skiff]

Hey yall. Im currently setting up my Action bars and keybindings for the sub rotation. I came a cross a few abilities that i havent really encountered in any guides and wanted to ask if i need them at all and if so when/why.
shiv,shuriken toss, sap, distract, tricks of the trade, cheap shot, shuriken storm, slice n dice (activated when popping eviscerate right? So not needed?) , kidney shot, blind and kick

[slate lantern]

Most of these are utilities so won't necessarily be covered in guides for damage rotation

[alpine skiff]

Oh ok

[slate lantern]

Except shuriken storm which is an aoe builder

That should be covered in all the guides

[alpine skiff]

I only read st rotation guides

[fringe ruin]

I want to try and get into playing aub, how hard is it?

[hazy breach]

Well he said toss

Not storm

Oh nvm they added storm

[alpine skiff]

I talked abt both😅

[slate lantern]

Blind is your aoe stop, kick is your interrupt, shiv is a de-enrage, tricks of the trade puts your aggro to a target (the tank) usually, with trickster hero tree it lasts an hour so is insanely good in keys

[fleet sluice]

Hey all is there any advice on how to best utilise double on use trinkets such as Araz and netherprism in m+? Do we chain use them as you can get an overlap of about 10 sec between the two or is it preferable to hold off from using Netherprism?

[devout quarry]

Is Blackpowder good to use 4+ target or 8+

[hazy breach]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[hazy breach]

Rotate them every blades

[slate lantern]

Seems overwhelming at first, not really bad at all, just practice the opener A LOT

[alpine skiff]

Got itt. Thanks

[devout quarry]

Thank you

[alpine skiff]

And kidney shot, sap, slice n dice, shuriken toss distract and cheap shot?

Also usable?

[fringe ruin]

I see that sub also tuns rupture, for big packs should i try to multi dot?

[young zealot]

sap/distract are CC that can be used from stealth for mob control, rather than in the moment interrupts, these don't put you in combat with the mobs so they're more used for skips and whatnot
slice n dice is passive now, dw about that
shuriken toss is a ranged combo point builder but you don't use it much

oh and kidney is a stun that costs combo points and you can use it for interrupts on stunnable mobs

[dusk stone]

am i incorrect in understand pacemaker has 50% downtime at the very least?

[alpine skiff]

Tysm!

[devout quarry]

Is there any log so that I can learn for AOE fight please

!log

[dusk stone]

post a log and we can help

[lethal minnow]

but its horrible

[dusk stone]

you use rupture on the gather and while out of any CD's, it receives amps dynamically

[limpid sage]

do sims simulate the coup refund behavior?

[short aurora]

!log

[idle aurora]

It is just as good to use prism and just have a seaforium and not double on use right?

[warm pond]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[warm pond]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[idle aurora]

Do we not use nether prism on first blades?

Why do I think that

[short aurora]

only when you use double onuse

you dont use it

[idle aurora]

Double on use isn’t necessary right?

[short aurora]

but if you play prism+passive you use it every blades

no

[hazy breach]

I mean you have 1 stack on pull

It doesnt matter much

[hazy breach]

Not necessarily

[short aurora]

ye i mean depends on dmg amp

[young zealot]

If you vanish, afk for 6 seconds and don't get hit by anything in raid, can you re-trigger TFD mid-fight or no?

[lethal minnow]

isnt there a 20 second cd between using on use

[idle aurora]

I confused now

[hazy breach]

No

you must leave combat for tfd to start

And you cannot leave combat during any boss fights (including m+)

[lethal minnow]

you can macro both to the same button?

[young zealot]

alright cool, wasn't sure if it counted or not, thank you!

[idle aurora]

Ooooh your saying if fight has a damage amp I might want to giga build prism?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[idle aurora]

Ty 🙂

lol I’m switching from outlaw back to sub cause outlaw somehow got 10x harder this season

Relearning

[lethal minnow]

i though i was just stupid

[upbeat sorrel]

congrats you saved yourself from 5 years of wrist pain

[graceful osprey]

I have three rogues, one for each spec and outlaw is the toughest for me right now

[idle aurora]

Unless your a one trick who knows everything it’s just effing redicilous right now

[karmic harbor]

Good

I hope outlaw is never meta

[idle aurora]

I do like 2million under sims in m+ lol and no matter how hard I try the 40edge cases are mind melting 🫠

Back to chill then go brrrrrrr

[karmic harbor]

Surely dungeon slice isn't what you should be aiming for in a dungeon anyways?

[graceful osprey]

I mean it’s fun to mess around but I mainly raid and M+ with my sub rogue. I do like how fast I can farm mounts or transmog with outlaw tho

[idle aurora]

I mean it’s just my overall dps at 708 with a lot of bis stuff is like 4.9-5.2 million in a 11-12 that’s baaaaad

That’s like last season dmg

[signal moth]

when you open on a big pack and you get a grand total of 0 coup.. feels so bad lol

[finite sequoia]

how much of a dps loss is it if we dont get the First Dance buff? i have peopel telling me that sub rogues dont need to restealth

but it seems like a clear dps loss to me

[karmic harbor]

I think this was a +2d 10 I did a week or two ago

But its dungeon specific

[fleet wharf]

just vanish when mobs are low and get it back that way

[finite sequoia]

yeah that's usually what i do, but still, now im wondering if it's really even worth it

[fleet wharf]

it is worth it

[finite sequoia]

thought so

[fleet wharf]

well mostly because the alternatives are uber shit

[karmic harbor]

When you have no cds wtf else are you gonna do

[fleet wharf]

just getting it once makes it worthwhile

[uncut oriole]

Even one or two uses of it makes it better than any other point in that section.

[finite sequoia]

auto attack for ST stacks

[fleet wharf]

more backstab soup

[finite sequoia]

but its weird that people think sub doesn't care about restealth

[fleet wharf]

we kind of don't though

[finite sequoia]

i guess because we still get 2 dances off even wtihout the buff

[fleet wharf]

i mean yea premed is nice, but it's whatever

[finite sequoia]

well its premed and also an extra stack of unseen balde too right?

[hazy breach]

No

[finite sequoia]

from your initial shadow strike

[fathom adder]

how do you play that first big pull in priory until 1st miniboss? Right now i just rupture the mobs while walking, until get to the named mob. Would you then 1. use you cds as soon as the mobs are there and cycle through it 2. wait until all are there 3. use a sd + symbol without cds and use blades + flag as soon as all mobs are grouped up?

[fleet wharf]

rupt until gathering is done and then send cds

[hazy breach]

You dont get an extra unseen blade from leaving combat. Unseen blade is just on a timer

[fathom adder]

problem is it takes a while to be grouped up because the mobs walk rather slow

[finite sequoia]

huh, i see, but when im in dance i can get 2 unseen blades in a row from shadow strikes

forgive my ignorance btw

[fleet wharf]

yea, so you just use rupture, shuriken storm, apply rupture and repeat until they're all in place

[finite sequoia]

this is something i was t hinking about today only, cuz i also remember unseen blade proccing every 20s on the tool tip

so why can i get multiple procs during sdance?

[dusk stone]

secret technique and disorienting strikes

[hazy breach]

Also "Thousand Cuts"

[finite sequoia]

ok gonna log on a read a bit more, thanks guys

[dusk stone]

ye but he gets that always

eleem, am i misunderstanding pacemaker or is it only 50% uptime?

and then its iffy after that

so like it works fine for your opener, and then its used up entirely by your 2nd opener

[idle aurora]

Ty yeah this is what im looking for obviously i will need to get sub rythm back but hard to have friends want me pushing into 12 and 13s with 5million overall lol

[dusk stone]

sub gets 8mil+ in halls 13

even with tons of kidneys/cheapshots

[finite sequoia]

dont you also want to rupture like 2 times after flag?

[dusk stone]

in aoe specifically

[finite sequoia]

in ST we dont rupture after flag at all? or just 1 rupture

[dusk stone]

and it also says its optional in the guide

[finite sequoia]

it seems to make a pretty big difference for me on dummies

[tribal blade]

i honestly won't hit cheapshot unless it's a last resort

like big emergency

[dusk stone]

you rupture to refresh its duration and to spread it after your cds are done

because its highest impact outside of big or small cd

[finite sequoia]

right, but i thought we want to rupture after flag to get more mastery for the first sectec

second sec tec doesn't matter i guess you'll have full buff by then

[dusk stone]

its a gcd inside of flag

[hazy breach]

You cant

[dusk stone]

once youre inside that 24s window every gcd is very significant

[hazy breach]

You cannot press dance while dance is active

[finite sequoia]

yeah but as long as your flag lasts until your final sec tec, that's really mostly what matters no?

[fleet wharf]

other ppl have already answred, but you want all rupt to be spread before entering cds

[dusk stone]

no

flag lasts for 24 seconds

[fleet wharf]

you need to squeeze every last bit of damage during your burst windows

[dusk stone]

3 dance is really strong and we really only send at 1.5 because its bad to overcap

[fleet wharf]

i mean yes at a baseline, you need to fit 2 sec tech into flag, but there's a lot more than just that

[west ridge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[finite sequoia]

hmm i see casualaddict always rupturing after flag in aoe

[dusk stone]

8 + 4 (tfd) + 8 + 8 is like 28 seconds of dance

idk how much symbols

[finite sequoia]

and it also does more damage for me on dummies

[dusk stone]

youre burst doesnt end until then rly just does down after 16s

netherprism also lasts 20 seconds

[fleet wharf]

if you rupt multiple times after flag, you desync sb, which just ends up delaying your next burst

[dusk stone]

you aren't getting prism until 3rd gcd i think in flag window, so its 23 seconds

[finite sequoia]

bold to assume i have a prism

[dusk stone]

well any trinket is like this rly

2 dance flag is about not overcapping

3 dance is strictly better if you had 100% no wasted dance

[finite sequoia]

wait what do you mean 3 dance

like 3 dances within flag duration?

[dusk stone]

yes

so if you have like 1.7 or 1.8 or somewhere around in there you get the cdr for a 3rd dance

[fleet wharf]

is that like 20 sec left?

[dusk stone]

its close to a full charge i think

[finite sequoia]

sorry what do you mean by 1.7 1.8, what are those numbers for?

[fleet wharf]

how many sd charges you have going into flag window

I'm just curious about what the shorthand cd remaining is for the dancese

[dusk stone]

the amount of dance charges you have

[teal fog]

Hey, guys
Since this morning i run ARAK and i got like 0 dammage ( cleaned in 16 ) and now i cant go ahead of 4k overall
4p doesnt work at all
Coup de grace is like 1% of my overall dammage
Any info ?

[dusk stone]

when you use flag you want minimum 1.5 dances before you press flag

[finite sequoia]

gotcha

[fleet wharf]

for 2 dances, you can enter dance with 40 sec remaining and be ok

[dusk stone]

you only get 16 seconds of dance if you do that

if its later you get 3

[finite sequoia]

have never done a 3 dance flag

[dusk stone]

you have

its your opener

[finite sequoia]

i always only 2 dance it

[dusk stone]

because each opener pull has 2 dance charges

[fleet wharf]

depends on if you have TFD active or not i think

with TFD it's kind of iffy on whether you should send the 3rd dance right away in keys anyway

[dusk stone]

nah without tfd its still 24 seconds

8 8 8

tfd helps with 3 dance sure

[tepid trellis]

Just comes Down to sectech being ready for the third Dance or not

Which it likely Will

[dusk stone]

idk wasting flag and prism seems cringe to me

[warm osprey]

gotta tfd than dd, to get st in the sd

[finite sequoia]

cant believe ive been doing it wrong this whole time

[tepid trellis]

Midway through the 3

[warm osprey]

unless your db, than td in th sb

[dusk stone]

its just its punishing when you overcap dance, which is more cringe

[fleet wharf]

anyone have number for the 1.8 sd cooldown?

[dusk stone]

wdym number

[tepid trellis]

Whats 20% of 1 min

[dusk stone]

its 10 o clock if it were a clock

[tepid trellis]

[fleet wharf]

yea, fair enough

but math bro, I haven't done much of it since college

[dusk stone]

i cry with all of this not shaman in keys

[reef walrus]

12 seconds

[dusk stone]

even when sub meta sub isnt meta i swear

[tepid trellis]

U Got it

Maff

[civic lava]

DO you guys use Prism on each shadowblade/flag when you have it paired with a passiv trinket ? or use it as a 3min cd

[fleet wharf]

depends on context, but as a general rule you should look to maximize it as a 3 min cd where you can because that's where the trinket's edge comes into play

[fleet sluice]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[warm osprey]

Use it if its stacked over 10 i, otherwise stack it

[rigid sparrow]

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```

[warm osprey]

Ive seen some use two on use, so youd use lily first SD, Nether 2nd Lily third etc etc

[finite sequoia]

im testing on the dummy atm but it seems i can't get the third sectec to come up before flag ends

is the 3 dance opener with lust only?

[fleet wharf]

try again with a shammy in group

[tepid trellis]

Need dmg on the pack and CD’s ready then Press it if not just stack it up for the 3min nuke

[finite sequoia]

cuz i even stacked shadow techniques for 14 stacks in the beginning

[fathom adder]

@fleet wharf yes but they take longer than that, i ruptured them all when i stand at the stairs where the miniboss is tanked and wait ~ 5 - 7 seconds until the mobs get dripfeed into the "bulk". I mean its what i am doing and thats fine i guess, just feels weird to me right now

[signal moth]

!log

[fleet wharf]

Just get rupture on key targets. the nice thing about being sub is because of your infinite tricks, you can start dpsing earlier without getting blown up for it

[signal moth]

^ is this so bad because it died just as my cds came back up or did i also fuck up?

[fleet wharf]

With replicating shadows, I'd do like 3 or 4 applications before going into cooldowns. Also, you can just follow along in stealth because you move pretty fast as a sub rogue and do the rupture on the packs the tank pulled, and you're actually helping him gain/keep aggro

[native zodiac]

Depends on how many unseen blades you proc for coups aswell

Otherwise you wont have the cdr for it

[finite sequoia]

so you can only do it with good rng i guess?

that's annoying

[hazy breach]

No need to focus on "fitting X into Y" or whatever

Just cast sectech when its ready in your dances

[alpine skiff]

Is there some kind of simple interface to keep track of cooldowns?

All add ons im using are dmg meter and bartender

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[alpine skiff]

WAs are weak auras right?

Got it

And there are different ones?

[short radish]

pick one of the class packs

[alpine skiff]

Sorry for the dumb questions, i have just never used any of them

[short radish]

see what looks nicest to you

no worries

if you multi class

luxthos is not bad

[alpine skiff]

Im not looking to multi class

[short radish]

then pick one of the non luxthos ones

[alpine skiff]

Just smth not too overwhelming, given that im pretty new

Can i also find them on curse forge? Or wagio only?

[nimble bolt]

You need the Weakauras addon from Curseforge, then you can import the WAs from Wago.io into the addon ingame

[alpine skiff]

Ohh ok

Thx

[dusk stone]

so i tried the targetted by spells WA today

not sure if its overactive or what but it seems nice

[alpine skiff]

I picked luxthos lol

Looked nicest imo

[short radish]

yeah i try and swap to other ones but im too used to it

im told luxthos has some performance issues

and it can also be potentially out of date

since its a multiclass WA

and the other ones are rogue specific

but honestly it'll do you fine

[strange fiber]

does anyone know the radius of nimble fury

[chrome palm]

I really need to move off Luxthos

[hazy breach]

8 yards around you

[strange fiber]

oh ok thanks alot i thought it was maybe around the target

[clever delta]

i loved luxhtox

and moving from it was taking kinda time

[hollow spear]

Sectec is around the target, nimble is around you

[alpine skiff]

Oh damn, everyone saying luxtho aint it

Is there a rogue specific wa that i can just install and is good out of the box?

Like not much to configure

[lilac stag]

LE

[alpine skiff]

Yall said performance can be an issue witt lux wa, id prefer to maybe pick another one then, cause my pc aint the best

[plush roost]

Personally prefer devlins

[alpine skiff]

Alrighty

[plush roost]

Just try out the packs listed and see what clicks for u, theyre all good

[alpine skiff]

Should i have to deinstall luxthos?

[plush roost]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[plush roost]

You can set luxthose to Load: Never on your rogue

If u dont want it

[short radish]

just delete it

and reinstall it if oyu want it again

its not like its hard to find

pick a thing WA that works for you

they all do the same but slightly different

[alpine skiff]

Got it

[short radish]

there's no wrong weakaura to use

[plush roost]

Ye its preference

[limpid sage]

any reason casualaddict shuriken storm spams besides offloading mental?

[wispy crystal]

Is it worth to farm lily or just try to raid and get the better trinkets from the raid ?

Reason I ask is because I've done 25 echo domes

[short radish]

a lily in the hand is worth 2x prisms in the bush

also just farm the pvp trinket instead

to save your mental

[wispy crystal]

Well back to the grind then

Echo dome awaits

[short radish]

jia you

[wispy crystal]

Jia you for sure 100%

[short radish]

dw once youget it

[brisk onyx]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[short radish]

it will appear in vault

[wispy crystal]

Once lily drops it appears in the vault ? Lol

The next day

[short radish]

yup

[wispy crystal]

I'll go farm the conquest trinket. It's a slight DPS loss only right ?

[short radish]

yeah its like

0.4% diff or something

or 0.6

you can sim yourself with it

its honestly not terrible

i killed mythic loomi with it

[alpine skiff]

Do u know how i can move the icons for shadown blade symbols etc abover the combo and stamina bar and the all the icons for evasion, cloak of shadows etc directly under the bar?

[wispy crystal]

The primary stat increase actually looks crazy

[fleet wharf]

Hey, so for Sec Tech hitting around target, it doesn't matter how much the target moves in the 1.3 seconds or something between first tand 2nd hit, always hits around them or does it snapshot where the initial hit happend and hit around there?

[hazy breach]

It does not matter no, it still hits

[short radish]

just get the crate addon tracker

[wispy crystal]

Good idea. Or try some 2v2 in full Pve gear

[short radish]

[steel jolt]

Imagine pvping. Could not be me

[short radish]

ye im retired now

no more pvp

[wispy crystal]

Wish we had bad luck protection and can't get duplicate drops 😭

Have like 3 shoulders 3 chests and 3 legs from echo dome

[strange gate]

shuriken tornado? whats the deal

[wispy crystal]

And it's always some pleb that gets the lily trinket doing 1M DPS

[carmine cape]

Hey! Why is it that sub (at least my character) sims better with more and more vers ? For example my low crit high vers neck sims better than my low vers high mastery neck from floodgate ? I am a little bit confused because its always stated mastery is the best secondary stat

[reef walrus]

whatever stat is the best depends on your characters' current stats, if you already have for example 25.000 mastery, extra mastery might be less valuable to you than extra versatility

this is why it's always recommended to just sim it, because the sim looks at your current character

[carmine cape]

yeah i get that and ethats why im simming a lot with new items but i got more vers than mastery now like 18k mastery and 22,5k vers 😄

[short radish]

vers is bae

vers my beloved

[keen dome]

Speed -> all

[carmine cape]

i mean vers is good for more surviveability thats why im not mas

mad

[dusk stone]

17.8k vers 23.4k mastery 10.5k crit 1% haste

[reef walrus]

that can happen, if the sim says the vers/crit neck is better, I'd just equip it and that's it 😄

[carmine cape]

yea just rwanted to ask if there might be a simtrap 😄

[dusk stone]

vers is 18k and crit is 10k but they are = in percent its not rly low

[reef walrus]

with "regular" items there usually isn't really a simtrap

there are some trinkets here and there that might sim higher or lower because of how they work which requires a bit more nuance

but if it's just for seeing what stats are best on your necklace, you shouldn't ever really encounter any simbait

[carmine cape]

Then im happy ^^
Thanks you guys a lot !!!

[civic lava]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[dusk stone]

why does this seem so broken

[short radish]

because its not

[dusk stone]

forge is like 23k averaged out

suppose thats over 30 and not 15

[short radish]

yeah but 80% of a forge

is still 80% of a forge

[dusk stone]

its more like 25% less

meh i guess champ forge would even be good in that case

[sharp lake]

So if we’re running Forge + Prism we can just put both on a macro with Shadow Blades and call it a day?

[dusk stone]

i was wondering if normal forge would be worth it for last 2 of raid

[short radish]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

yes

[sharp lake]

kk sounds good

[lusty root]

No lol

Er it’s not supposed to be

But the log has it being used after

[amber escarp]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[young path]

How is this possible?

Casts shadow blades at 0:06

then 2nd shadow blades at 1:28…

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KZbzAV2P9CJfwpcG?fight=18&source=253&start=4977910&end=5274039&type=casts&view=timeline

am I crazy?

I must be looking at it wrong… make it make sense

[vagrant sinew]

holy pala

[warm marlin]

hpal gets an external called blessing of autumn that they can cast on someone to make their cds come back faster

[young path]

Oh snap, learn something new everyday!

Ty

[slate lantern]

Seconds in China are 0.9s of a NA/EU second so their cds comeback earlier

[young path]

Would this h pal buff give 10%-ish CDR to all abilities, even dance?

[warm marlin]

its a short term buff like PI that effectively gives you 9 seconds worth of cdr on all abilities over 30 seconds, including dance (which doesnt matter too much, because a good chunk of dance cdr is from spending cp).

cooldown is about 3mins iirc its a weird cycling button

[shrewd lantern]

didnt they nerf the shit out of it

after it stopped being a cov ability

[tepid trellis]

they nerfed the dmg one

like crazy

[shrewd lantern]

yes summer

the external most people stopped caring about once they realized

it counted as the pally's damage on wcl

imagine if they could do that for PI

way harder to code haste though

[short radish]

yes but also consider

deleting PI

[shrewd lantern]

REAL

delete aug too

[short radish]

and deleting aug

fuck

i really dont want to play salad now

im told our dev is playing aug

[shrewd lantern]

is there something aug does better

on that boss

does aug still have that weird interaction where their damage isnt properly attributed if the buff target was hitting into shields

[tepid trellis]

its fun!

sometimes in p1 i felt like i was doing fuck all

[short radish]

dunno what it is

but its a thing

[tepid trellis]

ending it at like 5m

then i looked

0 buff uptime

next pull

7mil

60% buff uptime

[short radish]

[tepid trellis]

yep yep

[short radish]

im just going to turn off details

on saladbar

whats the fucking point

[tepid trellis]

its a fun fight tho

[shrewd lantern]

guys am i trolling not sending any dances on 2nd intermission collectors on araz

i feel im tapped

when he phases

[tepid trellis]

nah fuck that lol

[short radish]

just backstab soup

[shrewd lantern]

yeah like i feel you phase

right after an add set

which is better to send one in

I dont get how anyone is playing sin on araz

i felt like i was dying half the time in inters as sub

which is more tanky

[alpine wraith]

depends a lot on healers

[shrewd lantern]

you mean having a healer on your side that isnt a coinflip if they eat a beam

isnt normal

[alpine wraith]

mainly because you want to hold intermission for a bit to have cds oin burn

[shrewd lantern]

/jk

[icy mulch]

I had to play Elus on araz cause I was fighting for my life on the collector

[alpine wraith]

we needed a bit more dmg on collectors

so i skipped a dance on adds and send two on collector

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i felt like i could send a dance set

[alpine wraith]

then leech and exhil kinda healed me

[shrewd lantern]

and one naked secret in inter first time

[warm marlin]

i HATE aug

[shrewd lantern]

but second one you phase dry

as all hell

[alpine wraith]

you need to skip dances on the adds yea send a naked sec tech

and storm evis

so you have the 3 unseens

for collector

maybe stab once or twice to get coup ready

[signal moth]

can dawn thread be put on a neck?

[tepid trellis]

dunno then either your healers are garbage or your tanks are fcking up

[manic salmon]

what do you think

[alpine wraith]

nope only leather amor

[manic salmon]

can necks be woven

[tepid trellis]

its really not that healing intensive at all

[signal moth]

yeah

[signal moth]

itll hurt but i bet its been done somewhere

[shrewd lantern]

i dont get how people eat beams

i ate one once on all of prog

because i got myself knocked into it

[alpine wraith]

stealthi getting to know the struggles of 800 wr

[haughty mural]

What to do with it ?

[alpine wraith]

why not both!

[warm marlin]

can't trust details, still upset over df key meta

[haughty mural]

Same

[alpine wraith]

augs are cooler now

[shrewd lantern]

i remember once i got double aug buffed on tindral opener

[tepid trellis]

regular phases are worse

[shrewd lantern]

i got to pretend i was good at the game

[tepid trellis]

dmg intake wise

[shrewd lantern]

[tepid trellis]

alot spikier

[haughty mural]

But what can they do with it now

[alpine wraith]

it is very likely the cd rotation is not done well

you can kinda muscle until 5 stacks

[tepid trellis]

there is only 1 overlap at the end of intermission where you get ticked hard

[alpine wraith]

then need something

[tepid trellis]

but thats where you defensive anyway

[shrewd lantern]

i knew someone was gonna wipe us

if i got a fully stacked ashes shadow rupture

on opener tbh

[hearty flint]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[warm marlin]

it can be really bad if baits or soak movement aren't done properly

[short radish]

no

they are not

[shrewd lantern]

for intermission beams?

[short radish]

as long as details damage isnt attributed to the aug

augs fucking suck

[alpine wraith]

after the velocity change you dont need to bait

[warm marlin]

oh woops thought u were talking about nexus

[tepid trellis]

ryldd think you are talking about another boss

ye talking araz beams here

[alpine wraith]

i was just doing left and right while cleaving add+echo

[daring tusk]

If you're using Lily, think the mastery it gives in cd's makes verse more desirable

[ember latch]

are we really spreading rupture in aoe?

[icy mulch]

I was getting milked dry on the burn phase amp on nexus

[alpine wraith]

omega chilling

[short radish]

yes

[short radish]

thieves

[tepid trellis]

you just gotta make sure that melee are baiting the beams out towards the edge

in intermission

[short radish]

/cancelaura Ebon Might
/cancelaura Presicience

[tepid trellis]

and not through the entire room

[alpine wraith]

nah try to snipe the warlocks

that will teach them

[limber relic]

Macro it to BS and Strike

[shrewd lantern]

/cancelaura Shifting Sands

[ember thorn]

does this breakdown look reasonable for a Dawn +14?

[fleet wharf]

wait, but don't we gain something when we get targetted?

[short radish]

macro it to everything

[ember latch]

it feels so ass

[short radish]

L

you spread during downtime out of dance

[fleet wharf]

damage is damage /shrug

[short radish]

and youre doing zdps during that time anyway

[limber relic]

Spread ruptures during the tank gather then blast when they together...ez

[fleet wharf]

don't rupture get stronger while our cds are up too?

[short radish]

yup

[lucid jackal]

Why?

[limber relic]

You guys switching to ass for any specific keys or playing sub for most?

[slate lantern]

[short radish]

no, playing assi is cringe

[limber relic]

Yeah i've been back and forth and kinda over it...full sub train

[fleet wharf]

this used to be a assa m+ channel smh

[short radish]

ikr

fucking @tribal blade coming in here all the time posting about how he's blasting as assi

[alpine wraith]

at least i can be happy every time someone's CB bugs out

because they betrayed us

[short radish]

true

prophet got the bug

[fleet wharf]

isn't sub st kind of low though

[alpine wraith]

it is

[short radish]

it is

[alpine wraith]

but you can highroll

so just proc?¿¿

[fleet wharf]

so there is the answer >.>

[short radish]

but like

[fleet wharf]

just crit you mean i have 2 on use

[short radish]

there are only 2 real single target fights in the raid

[alpine wraith]

nono you need to crit and proc

both of them

[short radish]

and in m+

we take basically the same talents

[fleet wharf]

do you still sub on plexus? kind of a joke fight either way but curious

[short radish]

like we take a 3% loss on ST

and other classes take 20%

no

fuck changing specs

[fleet wharf]

so 3 then...?

[ember latch]

idk just does

[fleet wharf]

oh

[alpine wraith]

sub on plexus is chill

[fleet wharf]

I might give that a go next week then

[short radish]

yeah

its a joke fight anyway

so just play what you enjoy

and if you enjoy assi

youre weird

[shell willow]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[fleet wharf]

but what if I want that smooth brain 20 apm experience?

though for some reason I feel i'm pressing a lot more buttons when playing fb

[short radish]

yeah you get that when you enjoy your backstab soup

[fleet wharf]

true

[short radish]

i dunno

people say assi has downtime and low apm

[ember latch]

!st

[short radish]

but it's sorta fake low apm

you dont pool as assi anymore really

or you do a bit

but its once every minute?

or 45 seconds

[signal moth]

legit never

[fleet wharf]

you don't pool, it's forced upon you once you run out of energy

[signal moth]

its never worth to pool lol

[short radish]

yeah

[icy mulch]

I miss exsanguinate

[short radish]

so your downtime in assi is kinda fake

like who cares about a 1-2 second downtime here and there

[fleet wharf]

fury warrs obv

gotta mash that keyboard harder

[signal moth]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-man-hangover-skate-gif-733324316276760777

[short radish]

they got nothing on this

or some backstab soup

[alpine wraith]

you still stab big

[signal moth]

learning sub i sometimes just.. hit a cd because it feels weird to sit afk for 8 seconds with coup waiting for flag to come up

[fleet wharf]

it's ok, it's called delayed gratification

[alpine wraith]

you will stab

[fleet wharf]

the numbers go big once you pop flag

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/gohine-hohino-no-hohineee-gohineee-gif-17792172174678204487

[alpine wraith]

also i didnt notice

but this sim natty procced both wep enchants

as it pressed flag

BRRRRRR

[lucid jackal]

Alright

[alpine wraith]

only needed to also proc belt

[fleet wharf]

does the belt proc count towards dr or not?

[shrewd lantern]

People say they want no downtime

yet refuse to play outlaw

kind of weird

[fleet wharf]

shit be too twitchy yo

[signal moth]

look we arent that dumb

[shrewd lantern]

i mean outlaw is the most gcd capped spec

psure

[signal moth]

last time i played it was DF s1/s2

[fleet wharf]

I don't doubt you, but what loop just said

[signal moth]

it was fun tbh

[shrewd lantern]

also harder than combat ever was

waiting for the boomers to react:

[signal moth]

https://tenor.com/view/friend-spongebob-smile-want-gif-23862635

[fleet wharf]

combat was the og backstab sinister strike soup

[balmy condor]

is sub the same as sin that you simply will run out of energy sometimes?

[shrewd lantern]

ss ss ss

red buff

[ember latch]

bring back combat

[shrewd lantern]

[tepid trellis]

yes

[signal moth]

we just run out in general

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[shrewd lantern]

Energy classes always run out

besides outlaw

their energy is fake

[balmy condor]

oh so sub can run out in aoe aswell?

[short radish]

yes

[hollow oxide]

this guy smh my head.

[short radish]

shuriken storm costs 50 energy

or something

[fleet wharf]

don't you gotta roll some buffs before you get infinite energy tho

[short radish]

we get 10 energy a second

[signal moth]

wtf is this noob bitch gold ass name doing her.. SHUN HIMM

[shrewd lantern]

if you play right you dont run out

if you fuck up….

[hollow oxide]

gold for god

[warm marlin]

the olden days before i realized the backstabbing tech

[short radish]

my guild loves it

[signal moth]

how good is sub 1button rotation? does it use cds lol?

[hollow oxide]

no

[shrewd lantern]

i like having time to afk between cds

[alpine wraith]

it is bit cursed

[ember latch]

none use cds

[shrewd lantern]

it gives me time to q up mic

and laugh at people standing in shit

[short radish]

it gives me time to take my hands off the keyboard

give them a shake

rotate the wrists

stretch a little

[signal moth]

https://tenor.com/view/bobs-burgers-tina-belcher-dance-dancing-shake-gif-16188945042388446369

[short radish]

no joke i play ret paladin sometimes

[signal moth]

gtfo

[short radish]

and im acutally exhausted half way through the key

[hollow oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/kgcat-gif-17387134594235711500

[short radish]

my fingers hurt

[fleet wharf]

I thought they had like 3 buttons to press

[short radish]

yeah and you gotta keep on pressing them

[signal moth]

thats it shut the ret discord for less buttons

[fleet wharf]

but we gotta press backstab too bro

[shrewd lantern]

try fury warrior

[fleet wharf]

how dare you downplay our apm

[shrewd lantern]

apparently they got some new hotfix tech

[ember latch]

do i wanna run shuriken tornado or no?

[shrewd lantern]

and removed one button they need to press

[fleet wharf]

no

[short radish]

see my name

[fleet wharf]

but you can try it ig. Some ppl like it

[ember latch]

Idk the only rogue i watch plays it in keys

[hollow oxide]

Why is it in your name?

[alpine wraith]

tornado is fine

but not a big win

[fleet wharf]

If you like that gameplay loop, go do it. It's fine

[signal moth]

is fimbulvtr an ability? what has that got to do with shuriken tornado?

[alpine wraith]

using it wrong can be less dps than just talenting DD

[short radish]

because i couldnt fit in "fuck shuriken tornado"

[ember latch]

do i put up rupture before using cds or only after theyre down

[alpine wraith]

depends on how the pull is

[fleet wharf]

always pre rupt before cds

[alpine wraith]

you can rupture once or twice if pack is gathering

but if it is a flash one and you have cds you send

strike flag rupture then cds

[fleet wharf]

using 2 gcd for rupture is not worth it when you do like 1000% more damage than just pressing backstab

[hollow oxide]

There we go

@short radish did it for ya

[short radish]

❤️

my names too long

[shrewd lantern]

can we replace

no dust role

[signal moth]

just go as Fim

[shrewd lantern]

with no tornado role

[fleet wharf]

but I still gotta show my hate towards a nonexistent ability

[short radish]

that feels too casual

[signal moth]

Go as Fimbul the vtr seems made up anyway

[cursive vapor]

yo sup here?

[shrewd lantern]

look all im saying is

[hollow oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/taspatspro-counter-strike-counter-strike-eagles-gif-17003296

[shrewd lantern]

if i wanted to sandbag my st for some aoe

assa exists

[alpine skiff]

First Sd, symbols, backstab, sectec, shadow strike, eviscerate…

Hey yall. This is the rotation i have atm without shadow blade and flagellation. I have two questions.
As far as i understand i should backstab after as the first builder for macabre stacks right? If so, why dont i do backstab, rupture, shadowstrike until full cb and THEN sectec? This way my strongest finisher does even more dmg. My other question is, why does this rotation leave out rupture?

[fleet wharf]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tepid trellis]

rupture is a dead global in dance

[signal moth]

cause rupture sucks

[tepid trellis]

thats why it sucks

[alpine skiff]

What is a global/dead global?

[hollow oxide]

thats what you get for asking a non-profit organization.

[signal moth]

when its not alive

[tepid trellis]

rupture gets dynamically buffed by dmg amps

and it doesent do instant dmg

[lucid jackal]

The other half of the reason we backstab first generator in dance is the talent premeditation, which causes your next generator to generate max CP

It's just not worth over commiting a bunch of different things to juice danse

[signal moth]

arent you an outlaw main?

[tepid trellis]

so the 6% dmg you would gain from pressing for a DM stack doesent outweigh the dmg loss over using an instant dmg finisher

[shrewd lantern]

time to press cheapshot to buff danse

[umbral fulcrum]

a global is a spell that causes your global cooldown to trigger

a dead global is a button press that does nothing

[alpine skiff]

Oh ok so stackomg a bunch of dance stacks and delaying sectec isnt worth it basically?

[tepid trellis]

it is not

[lucid jackal]

I play rogue in a US top 10 guild. I play whatever spec is good for prog and then play whatever is fun on farm

[shrewd lantern]

You dont delay sectec

[tepid trellis]

DM is just a passive

that you dont pay attention to

[fleet wharf]

thats a complicated way of saying you're usually a sub rogue

[alpine skiff]

Oh got it

[lucid jackal]

Sub has been the most fun spec this entire expansion, so I play sub

[shrewd lantern]

anyone else remember the cursed pv era

[signal moth]

i just saw your name in wowhead for outlaw i swear

[lucid jackal]

Well, I am

[shrewd lantern]

when we hit bs in dance

[signal moth]

ForeverSub

[short radish]

guy is a fakeoutlaw

[lucid jackal]

I just dont sexually identify as a spec

[shrewd lantern]

because it did big dam

[lucid jackal]

I never really have

[short radish]

he spends more time playing sub

[shrewd lantern]

guy is a ret main