subtlety

[vagrant sinew]

I dont think you can solo it anymore

[balmy condor]

i just feel uncertain if i used backstab or not with the macro 😄

[hazy breach]

Well if you didnt do it at the start

[gaunt bluff]

hunter turtle can atleast

[hazy breach]

Then youre not gonna do it later

So theres no point in knowing

[indigo current]

what did u guys craft for your 3rd item?

[hazy breach]

Also the backstab is the last thing you should be worrying about if youre new to the spec, timing your burst windows and doing it correctly is insanely more important

[indigo current]

i got daggers and wrists already and cant think what to craft next

[vagrant sinew]

you dont really have to craft anything

just depends on what you have already

[indigo current]

ik but i dont have myth items to upgrade

[vagrant sinew]

714 vault is doing big carrying if you myth raid

[indigo current]

boots are out of the equation cause i wanna farm soul hunters

for those

[indigo current]

no time to raid unfortunately ;/

only pug once in a while

[vagrant sinew]

well then other than jewelry you dont have that many other options

[hazy breach]

Probably ring, but you can sim to be sure

[indigo current]

thats what i was thinking

ty

[vagrant sinew]

unless you crafted shoulders as offset or something

[gaunt bluff]

for me ring sims the best and its a hard piece to get from raid anyway

cus everyone wants the myth rings

[maiden oar]

nothing yet bc im upgrading stuff i own but i will probably do ring or neck next wk according to sims

unless i get a really good vault

[swift tinsel]

went ring bc it beats hero DB ring for me

[prisma minnow]

So pressing evis on aoe for prio is bad?

[swift tinsel]

nah

unless its out of dance then its kinda noodley

[limpid vessel]

do u shadow storm inbetween coup in ST ?

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[spark sandal]

what is the magic number for black powder usage?

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[spark sandal]

thanks boss

[cold zodiac]

guys witch macro u use for prepot and burst damage ?

[visual lava]

Should I macro dance and symbols together? Or is it better to not do so

[obsidian orchid]

I just simmed my vault and according to that it wants me to pick Logic Gate: Alpha ring crit/mastery hero over necromancerband mythic, is this really accurate? Since vers/mast is main stat?

im 78% mastery 24%crit and 24% vers atm

[lilac stag]

Belt prep for .5

[rocky axle]

Hey do u use any macro for prizm ?

[lilac stag]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

trinkets if you min/max might be better on seperate keys

especially if you play double on use

[rocky axle]

i'm playing pacemaker + prism

[vale pine]

you can still min/max stacks of prism, but macroing is also fine

[rocky axle]

nah im not gonna min/max, just giving a shot at sub for M+ since it looks much stronger than sin. I always liked sub but felt terrible at it, im not gonna bother with optimisations for now.

Unless its a pretty big gain

For minimum braincells involved

[hazy breach]

Its not much stronger than sin, but its solid

[full field]

Also new to sub here, what proccs/cds should i track with weakauras?

[sullen hare]

Well now that you specifically said there's no secret rule, that means the subtlety purple shadow cabal is hiding a secret rule from me

[open glade]

Isn’t it bad to macro nether prism if you are trying to use at higher stacks?

[sullen hare]

Logic, nerubian, and radiant band are all solid rings

[sullen hare]

It would be if you're going double on use

[swift tinsel]

I just have mine on a sep bind

so I can send at 1.5 or 3 or whenever makes sense

[vale pine]

yes, but you most of the times don't need to

[swift tinsel]

even with prism+passive

[mortal mango]

is it recommended to have a macro for shadowblades and technique?

is it even possible coz it doesnt work for me

[grand wyvern]

i use 2 trinket macros on 2 buttons for my 2 on use trinkets

[sullen hare]

That does make me wonder if part of the play (and why imexile absolutely ass-blasted on dimensius vuln phase) is a fully- or mostly-stacked prism going into it

[hollow spear]

Prism is just very good when you can optimize around it

Moving your trinket's value from a single target no amp flag to a multi target or an amp flag is big

[swift tinsel]

stacked prism with flag into titan

feelsgood

probs moving it to dragon next week tho

still banging heads against hc dimmy

[past cobalt]

I just got my forge+prism combo so gonna try it in a key sometime soon

[serene notch]

jumping on this random prism train, but got mine yesterday.......insane how much better it is for us then lilly

[limpid vessel]

do we only send CP at 6-7 ?

[vagrant fulcrum]

need to confirm, this patch we can send dances without symbols but never symbols without dance due to 4pc cdr ye?

[limpid sage]

Hesitant to say never, but I haven’t experienced that yet

[vale pine]

we don't send dance without symbols

the additional cdr from the tier set is very low

[vagrant fulcrum]

i must be double tapping symbols then

and running out of it compared to dance

[limpid sage]

I’ve experienced that a few times in keys

Chain pulls on high mobs counts it’s def possible

[swift tinsel]

ye I've def encountered keys where you can cap dances fairly easily

[limpid sage]

Like start of HoA it happens a lot I feel

[swift tinsel]

Halls, some parts of EDA

like whole first section I feel like I can be in dance for 80% of it lol

[limpid sage]

But there’s almost no gain from it because it feels like playing classic rogue without Symbols up

[swift tinsel]

ye the energy loss is notable

[spark sandal]

do you only use cold blood if you have 2 on-use trinket?

[unkempt juniper]

Forgive my poor searching skills, do we run ST or AOE spec for Dimensius?

[swift tinsel]

tried out running SF and imp sht it wasn't really helpful at all

[limpid sage]

No, cb build is good without 2 on use

[swift tinsel]

granted they're tiny

[fathom adder]

@spark sandal both are equal with different strenghts

[spark sandal]

Yeah, cuz like i cant get more damage more than like 4million overall on like +10s, and ive seen videos and everything but im struggling and wanting to know what is better

[limpid sage]

I guess it does have a bit more synergy with cb though

[limpid sage]

Try looking at quick sim breakdown and understand why it uses those specific spells

Not breakdown but timeline rather

[spark sandal]

yeah

[rocky axle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[swift tinsel]

keep this in mind though

[brave harbor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[kind canyon]

hello trying sub today on mythic

is there a reason why high rank logs pop their cds 20 seconds into the pull?

[hazy breach]

Assuming you mean araz

[kind canyon]

is it to wait for pools?

[hazy breach]

And yes

To hit the adds

[clever delta]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[kind canyon]

started looking at first boss

[hazy breach]

Theyre using it on pull on first boss

[kind canyon]

no

[hazy breach]

Yes

[kind canyon]

i mean

[swift tinsel]

looks to be so

[kind canyon]

oh

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, names I recognise on that list. All of them blasting

[bleak night]

[kind canyon]

desregrd everything i said

i brain farted

[limpid vessel]

does anyone knwo what this is tracking the numbers for shadow dance and symbols

[kind canyon]

soz

[hazy breach]

Estimation for how many of those stacks youll have for flag

[lilac stag]

lawl hit 26m with 18 stack pulling last two packs into boss in Priory

[turbid arch]

Is forge better than lily In m+ even with the cd gap

[shy beacon]

Do we change talents between bosses? or is out st talent page general for every boss?

[lilac stag]

you use forge with prism

[keen dome]

My record so far was 33m on Big Momma on pull with some additional mobs

It's such a good trinket

[lilac stag]

i caught it at the tail end, once I noticed pack was gone ahahaha

[obsidian orchid]

wouldn't the necro be better for m+?

[lilac stag]

we dont really care. ilvl and no haste

it's not that complex

[swift tinsel]

ye theyre kinda interchangeable based on the rest of your gear

[mighty citrus]

Where did you get this?

[lilac stag]

big BP enjoyer

[keen dome]

Huuuge

[swift tinsel]

its one of LE's auras

[mighty citrus]

Is it standalone?

Prob not

[swift tinsel]

I think they have it on their wago

[lilac stag]

look on her wago profile

[swift tinsel]

otherwise can download their pack and take it and delete the rest

[cunning notch]

gah damn

[lilac stag]

final boss gape

oh i love double on use

[keen dome]

Duo in FG is so much fun with 18 stacks. Everyone else at like, 4 - 5m. I'm up at 15m

[grim pewter]

anyone wager a guess as to why raidbots is telling me to gem crit vers in aoe for sub? seems like crit is simming very well. ive got 25% crit, 96% mast, 24% vers.

[keen dome]

Because Crit is good and we're couping a lot and coup crits are good

[lilac stag]

becuase we have mastery out the ass and we're rng slot machine fishing for crits

[keen dome]

More critting betterer

[swift tinsel]

you're on the higher end of mastery/vers so its gonna do that

[grim pewter]

this was going to be my exact guess. crit is improving the consistency of getting a decent amount of FW procs with our shuriken storm globals.

[swift tinsel]

plus gems are lil bumps of damage

[keen dome]

I beleive each hit of Coup can Crit, right?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

they're all independent

[keen dome]

Ye, so big crit fishing

[cunning notch]

yeah if i swapped all my gems from crit vers its a 0.2% increase

i'd rather have the gold increase

[lilac stag]

big crit fisting

[keen dome]

I swapped everything to crit mast yesterday

[swift tinsel]

For funsies I did 5 Replace All gem sims and got 5 different best combos lol

[kind river]

Probably inflated because it was floodgate but I had a nice run there yesterday

[keen dome]

It's gonna look real silly when I'm in full 723

[kind river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/938601894736191499/1413019042528366712/image.png?ex=68bb10c8&is=68b9bf48&hm=8433a24b43b5d3d1278f9d74169ce4e297578d8d71ce78cd1425e24904b496dc&

[swift tinsel]

donate some speed plz

[cunning notch]

omhgad the 1% haste dream

[lilac stag]

fun, yeah flood can make it look REALLY good

[kind river]

Rather, im saying mine is probably inflated due to floodgate

[grim pewter]

maybe i'll try simming my 2nd crafted ring with crit mast just for funsies.

[swift tinsel]

I'm at a paltry 6%

[keen dome]

no it's mine I need it to run away

[swift tinsel]

ugh fine

[keen dome]

I miss my 16% from S2 though

[maiden oar]

i need to have more crit

[glacial stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

I've gotten one speed and one avoidance piece so far

[cunning notch]

had 102% so had to swap to more vers

[maiden oar]

but the game keeps giving me vers mast items

[cunning notch]

funny numbers

[grim pewter]

are there any like, super hard breakpoints for mastery where it starts to dramatically taper off? or vers for that matter. I remember simcraft used to have a really awesome visual for this back in legion.

[swift tinsel]

managed to nab momma's necklace and both db and priory rings

[past cobalt]

0 consumes, pretty ok

[swift tinsel]

so much mastery

if I equip all my mastery gear I'm at like 30k

[keen dome]

1,500 Speed is about 9% which is just enchants, btw

What do you mean against current target I have 29.86% speed

[cunning notch]

30k is that not like 120% mast ?

[swift tinsel]

idk something like that

[cunning notch]

bussin

[swift tinsel]

probs a lil bit more

but I think I drop to like 14% or 17% crit lol

and that's with recrafting bracers and ring to crit/vers

also living the only-haste-on-tier-chest dream

[past cobalt]

Same

[swift tinsel]

just an antenna or pacemaker away from being hero track kitted lol

[cunning notch]

what shoulders do u run then ?

[swift tinsel]

loom

[cunning notch]

ahhh

[swift tinsel]

got hc with avoidance

[keen dome]

same

I've done like, 30 FG's so far

Not a single drop

[swift tinsel]

I haven't farmed that hard for it yet tbh

get pulled to do guild dungeons a fair bit

[past cobalt]

I do have a hc pacemaker but havent rly used it

[swift tinsel]

they like me for my prism lol

[cunning notch]

taz shoulders kinda looking at me funny now

[keen dome]

It's the only trinket outside Antenna that's an upgrade for me (I mean not really I think an empty slot beats fucking Sigil at this point) so it's an easy choice when I'm bored

[swift tinsel]

I've been running hc sigil and its nice for bosses but kinda small for the rest of the key

[keen dome]

Netherprism does more passive damage than it!!

It's such a failure of a trinket and it should feel bad

[swift tinsel]

yeah I saw the pic you shared lol

iirc it was doing more on ptr

when I ran stuff

[keen dome]

It has one job and it's being beaten by the other trinket that we use for main stat on use lmao

[swift tinsel]

yeah the damage proc seems way, way lower

[keen dome]

It has to be bugged, right

[swift tinsel]

was almost double

I think I mathed it to like 2.5ppm live

was a while ago tho

[keen dome]

Sounds likely

[swift tinsel]

was almost 60 procs in a 20ish min key iirc

[keen dome]

Yeah, that matches most of mine

[young heart]

Quick question about SIgil, I was running a sim on my character, and raidbots doesn't seem to use the same logic with Sigil + Netherprism than Forge + Netherprism. Is the logic different because Sigil is super undertuned?

[swift tinsel]

well one is passive on is on-use

[young roost]

is it worth running forge if you dont have prism?

[young heart]

Oh wait, I meant Signet.

Signet + Netherprism doesn't use the same logic than Forge + Netherprism in the sim I just ran.

(Sorry I can't read anymore...)

[charred stream]

random question, is it dumb to craft two weapons? assuming I'm not mythic raiding/low chance of a second myth weapon atm?

[swift tinsel]

iirc the double on-use logic checks for forge specifically

when using with prism

[young heart]

So, in theory, Signet + Netherprism should be stronger than what the sims suggest, if we apply the same logic as forge?

(I understand Signet is much weaker than Forge)

[lilac stag]

its grab a passive weaker

[grim pewter]

what would be a good trinket counterpart to araz until i can get a prism to match with it? currently running pacemaker. not sure if i should be exploring a passive or active trinket to pair with it.

[lilac stag]

just treat araz as a 3 min and run with a passive

[grim pewter]

perfect. will continue as I was!

[vale pine]

offhand weapon is one of the , if not worse item slots in the game

[wispy crystal]

Do the raid trinkets beat lily?

[vale pine]

yes

netherprism is the absolutely best trinket you can get

[left parcel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lucid jackal]

Probably bad yeah

Offhand is low value

[feral knot]

anyone had their key not count after completion?

[clever delta]

yeah give it a day

and it will

[wispy crystal]

Thanks ! What pairs well with netherprism?

[vale pine]

antenna or any passive trinket

[grim pewter]

are we not running araz with prisim?

[vale pine]

forge is decent too, but mostly for the last 2 bosses

[bleak night]

antenna enjoyers rise

[vale pine]

the boss fight design is rly good for the combination

[bleak night]

definitely not just because i cant get a forge

[signal moth]

the most skewed key split in the world, i have failed about 100000 priories lol

[mortal cargo]

Yo guys. if i have Forge and netherprism how should i aproach it i see people do it differently . do i just juggle between the trinkets on each cd set or do i send a dry cd to get 18 stacks of netherprism?

[slow gorge]

Hello :D in mm+ do you use symbols + shadow dance as a mini cd before bug cd or u juste shadow strike + black powder and chill waiting

[orchid shell]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vagrant fulcrum]

the fuck

does a 15, can't do above 8 priory

[signal moth]

well tbf im failing 13/14 priories

but yeah

[bleak night]

my hunter is on the same track

who needs to step foot in dawnbreaker

[signal moth]

i came late to the league and my friend already has resil 15s

so im just grouping with him lol

only started sub and keys like 2-3 days ago

im super shit

[vagrant fulcrum]

you can play the other two in keys too if you enjoy / are better at em

[signal moth]

like legit, i dont know what im doing in this 15 lol

[signal moth]

yh i mean i havent played outlaw for 3 expacs and i playe sin allot but i just like sub lol

want to learn it

[vagrant fulcrum]

fair

enjoy bro

it cranks

[wispy crystal]

Ty! Priory and pacemaker seems to be giving me the highest DPS increase for now.

Which is kinda strange.
I have a mythic Anub trinket, should I swap it for the heroic Priory ?

[signal moth]

ha yeah, im just annoying fuu as much as possible and he will fix me

fix me fuu

[vagrant fulcrum]

bro at this point i'm just managing with tea everywhere kekw

finishing this tier

and if rogue doesn't change a lot ill be rerolling

this amount of bugs on sin is messed up

nevermind sin, the entire class

[signal moth]

nah i love subt its the most fun ive had learning a spec as its so punishing so when it is done right it just feels good

[vagrant fulcrum]

is just forever bugged

[vagrant fulcrum]

issue is I play a lot of alts

the grass is actually greener

[signal moth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TJ92tjz3yRwBhPC8?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=5

can anyone explain how the fuck i didnt have cds for the very last flag of the entire dungeon? I want to think I didnt use stuff but obv i did lol

[signal moth]

i come from monk

it isnt

depending on the grass

[vale pine]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[swift tinsel]

Only healing alts for me this season

[bleak night]

ive only been playing hunter as alt this season

[tacit pond]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[bleak night]

really makes me question why i play melee

[strange geode]

!crest

[bleak night]

but midnight is gonna be good for rogue

trust

[grim pewter]

why we feeling good about rogue for midnight? im always down for hopium if thats all it is tho

[swift tinsel]

Just started gearing my mistweaver and resto shaman for when I want a break from melee range area denial fiesta

[vale pine]

whats your question about crests??

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-senator-armstrong-revengeance-i-made-it-the-fuck-up-gif-25029602

[grim pewter]

yo Im 99% sure every class is gonna feel awesome to play in midnight. no cap lol

[vagrant fulcrum]

idk, i got rank 6 on soulbinder mythic last week on sv, was 1.4m dps below the ww who was like rank 300

is ww that bad?

[swift tinsel]

I’m reserving judgment until it goes live

[signal moth]

too real

[swift tinsel]

I have low/no expectations for midnight

[strange geode]

Need the picture where you see where gilded drops and ilvl per content

[clever delta]

well we getting new talents and thats something

[signal moth]

no, ww is fine but im just saying its normally in a terrible spot lol

like imagine being a mage

or even worse a ret

little bitches

[swift tinsel]

With history in mind new talents aren’t exactly an exciting prospect for sub lol

Inb4 sepsis comes back as an apex talent

[clever delta]

u r not wrong but i likel little of copiium

[wise vortex]

Stop it

Dont wish that on us

[honest saddle]

I mean if sub just had a slightly better tree, its in a pretty good spot design wise. I do think nimble causes tuning issues where every st change also moves aoe needle.

[swift tinsel]

If there’s no full addressing of the talent tree and it’s just a few nodes tacked on to the bottom I’m gonna really wonder what they worked on all TWW

[clever delta]

issue with sub is

people play assa even when sub is better

so blizzard not that invested in spec i think

[honest saddle]

That's because it's dog shit easy.

Sub is a real man's spec

[clever delta]

they were saying the same in outlaw channel

[honest saddle]

Probably true honestly

[clever delta]

and is ass real girls spec?

idk

😄

[wise vortex]

Sub/outlaw pressing 500 keys meanwhile assa 7 apm doing the same damage

[bleak night]

sub and assa apm are the same btw

[grim pewter]

the hero trees are getting a 4 point node tacked onto the end, and 3 extra points for the right tree in midnight.

[warm marlin]

got the latest coup delayed refund of my life yesterday

i rewatched the vod and there is not a single frame of my sht being at 7

[clever delta]

is the loomithar amp in p2 whole phase?

[wise vortex]

Doesnt feel like it

[swift tinsel]

that's what I said

[clever delta]

i just looked that ppl actually hold cds for p2

[bleak night]

sub is faster inside cds but slower outside

so it evens out

[bleak night]

yes

[wise vortex]

Yea fair

[swift tinsel]

apex talents added to spec tree

[grim pewter]

"a FEW nodes" is what made me think u were talking about the right tree. sry my bad. since we're only getting 1 new node.

[vagrant fulcrum]

hold up, is mage actually bad?

[warm marlin]

3ms

[clever delta]

thats you

dirty bug abuser

[warm marlin]

just react bro

[keen dome]

Your name always make me smile

[swift tinsel]

lol right

[warm marlin]

its troll af

i love it

[swift tinsel]

mine used to be Boneybill when I was still undead way back when

[open coral]

can we evasion the solo tank soak on nexus king?

[warm marlin]

cloak works

[open coral]

ye i know,

just wondering about evasion

since its 50% phys

[clever delta]

i love cloaking tornados when they go through soaks

[warm marlin]

the shadowstrike went off 180ms after this refund btw

[clever delta]

they still need to work on those refuns

[hazy breach]

Ok granpa not reacting in time

[clever delta]

im getting cooked when im about to press storm in between and return happen in end of gcd

[warm marlin]

[maiden oar]

https://tenor.com/view/bingus-hairless-cat-meme-funny-fall-down-gif-655027121898683540

im a big fan of bingus

[warm marlin]

the og bingus

[spice matrix]

what soak strat are you guys doing for p1 King? We are doing a ranged soak and I cringe when he just sits in the middle of the room

[hazy breach]

Ill see you at bingo night down at the halls on monday ol chap

That shit is impossible to react to

[warm marlin]

stacking towards middle, soak guy runs tf out

follow late in

[spice matrix]

yea sounds about right

[left ledge]

I love when I’m at 6 sht and I press coup and then my character just refuses to proc sht for the next century

And the other times I coup at 3 and somehow get a refund

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[signal moth]

the worst thing about mage is having to be a mage

[long sun]

AYO

does coup hit twice

if so why

am confused

[warm marlin]

3 times

well 6 with shadowed finishers

[lilac stag]

think of it like a pos version of DFA

[long sun]

bro just dropped two abbreviations i never heard of

[warm marlin]

it legit looks like my sht bugged

[clever delta]

sub need help

code fucked up 😄

servers cant keep up

[lilac stag]

piece of shit version of the legion version of death from above

[long sun]

why is it hitting multiple times. or like - what is hitting the mob?

[long sun]

that was big time delay

[long sun]

ah ty

[swift tinsel]

coup is just 3 eviscerates and each hit gets its own shadowed finishers hit too if fw is up

[long sun]

damn real?? i never knew it worked this way

i thought it was one omega evis

[warm marlin]

like haptics said one damage instance occurs around 50ms after cast, 350ms, and 950ms from looking at my logs

[swift tinsel]

yeah three eviscerates in a trenchcoat

[warm marlin]

and the final hit is twice as big as the other 2

[long sun]

ya i was looking at my coup damage events and was confused by it

ok ty friends

[swift tinsel]

its a silly spell

doesn't like finality, odd relationship with shadowcraft

[left ledge]

Better than RS

RS was pain

[warm marlin]

the rs bug

[swift tinsel]

yeah rest in piss RS bug

did a lil dance when I saw they fixed it

[left ledge]

We don’t play it anymore either way

[swift tinsel]

you do here and there

and its nice in keys

[clever delta]

rs bug will return sooner or later

i trust

[spice matrix]

we opening RS first global again?

[tepid trellis]

they very much arent

[cunning notch]

with the 20% nerf on the belt now are we free to use better things ? ( i'm gonna have fun waiting in Sim waiting line )

[swift tinsel]

belt was replaced by hero track

[bleak night]

actually fair enough, i hadnt looked at it this tier

[swift tinsel]

or low myth

[bleak night]

they definitely were within 1-2 in the past

[tepid trellis]

sub is like 60-65

assa is around 47

[bleak night]

57 according to simc for sub

and 50 for assa

[cunning notch]

thats so nice

[swift tinsel]

there's a few belts you can get from m+ that are good replacements at hero

[bleak night]

used to be within 1-2

[tepid trellis]

sub always sits around 60

[wary jungle]

is something wrong with this macro? it doesnt work / doesnt activate cold blood

[tepid trellis]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[wary jungle]

oh damn, thanks

[cunning notch]

had this baby waiting for the day that pos belt got nerfed

[open vortex]

The belt isn't nerfed until .5

[vague dragon]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[swift tinsel]

got that one on myth

dropped disc soon as I did lol

[cunning notch]

wait are we not on .5 now ?

[swift tinsel]

nope

[open vortex]

And atleast for my sims, it wasn't being beat even by a 723

[swift tinsel]

not for a bit

[cunning notch]

ah shit fuck

belt back on

[open vortex]

Critical chain kinda hard carries the belt

[warm marlin]

same

well 723 was like margin of error gain

[open vortex]

Ye same

[warm marlin]

if it had a socket it would win

[cunning notch]

whens .5 patch coming then ?

[grim pewter]

.5 patch is going to be a turbo boost. so expect the same amount of time between season start to turbo boost as last season.

[ripe flame]

Quite a while (? Prob 1.5-2 months from now

We don't know for sure

[cunning notch]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-haechan-wolf-lobisomem-pidao-gif-1556814841747640198

FREE ME FROM THIS BELT BLIZZATD

[warm osprey]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[grim pewter]

i replaced mine with a 704 with vers mast. cant rly help caring if its optimal or not, the less variance in my kit the better. I'm still traumatized by poison bomb rng in legion.

[solid vale]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[swift tinsel]

717 Devotion belt was margin w/o socket and slightly higher margin with lol

[balmy condor]

do you always shuriken storm after first coup?

[swift tinsel]

with blades up or in aoe

[balmy condor]

ah not in ST w/o blades?

[austere zodiac]

chat

[swift tinsel]

it only gives 1 cp which wouldn't be enough

[austere zodiac]

Seaosn set bunus

[swift tinsel]

@vale pine

guide typo's

[austere zodiac]

small typos on the coup de grace portion

on multi target opener

explanation

[slow gorge]

Hello :D in mm+ do you use symbols + shadow dance as a mini cd before bug cd or u juste shadow strike + black powder and chill waiting

[warm marlin]

just like st you should be using dance symbols sectec between flags as miniburst windows

you have even more cdr in aoe so you might rarely dance sectec without symbols

[solid vale]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[opal basalt]

ik the robot is always speaking the truth, but it really amazes me how those are my (unflasked) stats rn

[swift tinsel]

looks about right

[opal basalt]

just got the mast/vers neck and it sims about 11k worse

[cunning notch]

people here playing the Cold blood build instead of the Tea build

[opal basalt]

yes i play CB

[cunning notch]

are u energy starved all the time

[opal basalt]

nope

[swift tinsel]

nope

[cunning notch]

outside of burst

[swift tinsel]

accept that you don't spam your buttons outside cds

cast to not cap energy

and you never feel starved

[cunning notch]

goddamn

[opal basalt]

damage outside of cds is negligible anyways

[swift tinsel]

^

[opal basalt]

so just chill a bit

[hazy breach]

Whats wrong with ti

[opal basalt]

rest your fingers

[cunning notch]

i like pressing buttons :sad:

[shrewd lantern]

no

[austere zodiac]

outlaw login

[opal basalt]

that actually is an outlaw angle

you'll always have sth to press

[swift tinsel]

gcd capped inside cds, mini-pause outside of them

seems like a fair trade for the damage we can do

[shrewd lantern]

I’ve never noticed energy starvation

that people claim

or are people pretending storm bp outside dance is relevant

[swift tinsel]

I'm also not a button-masher

maybe a lil double tap

[austere zodiac]

bro simming without premium is so bad wth

[swift tinsel]

so I never feel like I'm spamming

[opal basalt]

swiftsim my beloved

[shrewd lantern]

just bum off your guild’s

[swift tinsel]

lol imagine having a guild premium

[austere zodiac]

my guild blew up

[swift tinsel]

I just have mine and let the people I like use it

[austere zodiac]

xdd

[shrewd lantern]

should have seen when the dh cord had one

[swift tinsel]

one lost priveledge bc they wouldn't sim with any enchants/gems when deciding

[haughty mural]

This early

[swift tinsel]

and kept asking about what to take

[haughty mural]

Damn

[shrewd lantern]

that got passed around more than a person on spring break

[swift tinsel]

I wouldn't trust a single person there with an email address

some unholy things would appear there

[austere zodiac]

wasnt about the game fortunately

[shrewd lantern]

i havent seen in a few years

vdh players are animals so

i dont have high expectations

Though the main problem with vdh is you’re effectively a dps with a tank role

and most tank mains kind of potato

[haughty mural]

Not anymore

[shrewd lantern]

I meant playstyle wise

[haughty mural]

Dmg tanks are now warrior and monk

[shrewd lantern]

you do kind of play like a dps

[haughty mural]

Ah oh yea sorry

[shrewd lantern]

warrior damage was already pretty decent in s2

if you just forgot about bdks

[swift tinsel]

monk is highkey fun

[shrewd lantern]

who got lucky bloodbeast procs

[swift tinsel]

might dabble in brew

[shrewd lantern]

brew is the most involved tank iirc

[swift tinsel]

the gameplay is pretty smooth now

[shrewd lantern]

Warrior just has perma cdr

on all their shit

so you want to constantly mash

[swift tinsel]

the big thing with brew is not over-using purify

and that's not too hard to manage

bc you get it back pretty quickly

[shrewd lantern]

they made aoe taunt+kick a non dps loss node to take now

which is nice

[haughty mural]

Brew is goated

Friend of mine finally rejoiced

[shrewd lantern]

thane is just funny if you proc 4-5 thunderblasts in a row

[austere zodiac]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty mural]

So I have my personal monk debuff in every key

[swift tinsel]

yeah our prot warriors are absolutely (literally) blasting packs in keys

and executing constantly bc the rage influx is s1 levels again

[shrewd lantern]

thats just thane

it always has way more rage gen than colo

[vale pine]

sorry, in a key. can check later

[swift tinsel]

yeah, was neutered in season 1 though bc it was too high for blizz's liking

[shrewd lantern]

also tclap is a better snap aggro tool

than revenge

[swift tinsel]

no worries someone posted it and wanted to give you a heads-up

[vale pine]

thanks

[swift tinsel]

ofc ofc 🫡

[austere zodiac]

what are the switch around talents for different keys

[swift tinsel]

tea and cold blood pretty much

[raw wadi]

any known bug with 1 hour tricks?

[swift tinsel]

maybe rotten/finality but they're both preference

[raw wadi]

its away after every dimensius pull

[shrewd lantern]

I tried a key with swapping rotten for finality

feels ok

[swift tinsel]

I just don't play around either and its w/e to me

[shrewd lantern]

otherwise basically raidbuild

[swift tinsel]

no sod/storm shenanigans

[shrewd lantern]

with swapping PE for replciating

[austere zodiac]

find the weakness is a fuck ass talent

esp in raid

[swift tinsel]

ye I take replicating all the time now

[slow gorge]

should i (in raid) always have 1 stack of dance, or i use the 2 as amini burst window

[swift tinsel]

idk I like the spread ease

the shadow damage is lost in details anyways

[shrewd lantern]

you send 2 of your major things in sb flag

then in betweens you kind of have to gauge

[warm marlin]

sometimes you use 2 in between flags, sometimes 1. usually it alternates, sometimes you can do 2 twice in a row between flags with some nice tier rng

[swift tinsel]

on lower keys rupture is okay but once I've gotten past 10's its been more notable

[warm marlin]

but usually flag-2-flag-1-flag-2-flag-1 is the pattern

[shrewd lantern]

lmao 4 coups in opener on araz

is fucking vile

[swift tinsel]

lol

gotta bank that luck for intermission

double it and give to next flag

[shrewd lantern]

imagine

[swift tinsel]

8 stacks eb

[shrewd lantern]

real feelsbad is when tanks fuck up

[swift tinsel]

oh man

[shrewd lantern]

and echo gets shielded on 2nd coup

[swift tinsel]

don't get me started lol

that fight and soul hunters

the fact the highest-health one isn't parked next to one or both of the others at all times

my 13th reason

[alpine wraith]

on M you usually focus that one

[shrewd lantern]

I havent decided

[swift tinsel]

yeah we don't

[shrewd lantern]

what spec im gonna play on m

[alpine wraith]

sub is fine

[swift tinsel]

I'm playing sub on every fight

so easy choice for me lol

I think I did 2 hc kills of plexus and loom as fatebound and hated it

[slow gorge]

so my first flag i use the 2 shadow dance, then my second flagellation need only 1 shadow dance?

then 2?

[swift tinsel]

plus I log and have to remember to start them again when I relog to fix bug

[shrewd lantern]

flag windows are basically full cds

full blast

[fallen crescent]

Yea idk why fb assa feels weird.

[shrewd lantern]

fb assa is baseline spec

and pray you chain tails

[swift tinsel]

its just a less-engaging sub rogue

[shrewd lantern]

and pray your tier doesnt bug

[swift tinsel]

you get your 1.5min

[shrewd lantern]

(it will)

[swift tinsel]

and then just kinda

bleh

[karmic harbor]

why is ritual forge so much better for last 2

[swift tinsel]

timers and movement

[shrewd lantern]

This early in tuning it works with timers

[fallen crescent]

Bigger burst baby

[shrewd lantern]

probwbly post turbo boost its not worth

[vagrant fulcrum]

how good is 2x on use

[fallen crescent]

Forge is also a crazy trinket

[shrewd lantern]

since stuff will just die

[vagrant fulcrum]

guild willing to give araz hc

but im unsure if i should take

[swift tinsel]

yeah I have a feeling in a few weeks/month double on-use will fall off

[vagrant fulcrum]

or let someone else have

[shrewd lantern]

its also nicer for top end guilds because you can have other dps play full st

while adds die to your nimble burst

[karmic harbor]

would it be better than 723 lily/heroic prism combo? @shrewd lantern @fallen crescent

[shrewd lantern]

you dont pair lily with another on use

[fallen crescent]

My sim says hc forge is not better than lily. But my lily m

[swift tinsel]

hm

[fallen crescent]

I currently run m lily and champ prism

[shrewd lantern]

that doesnt sound like a good time

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[shrewd lantern]

i run m pace though

[fallen crescent]

Wdym?

It’s the same as forge

[shrewd lantern]

because lily will just sit there

for a bit

[fallen crescent]

As will forge

[vale pine]

rly good on last 2 fights, else fine

[shrewd lantern]

idk forge sits less since its a 2min trinket

[fallen crescent]

It was simming higher than passive +prism or lily.

[shrewd lantern]

and more all in

[fallen crescent]

Yes

But u still hold it

So same concept

[karmic harbor]

fuu would heroic forge be better than 723 lily

[fallen crescent]

And holding forge feels way worse due to how big it is

[fallen crescent]

My sims didnt point to that but k.

[lilac stag]

Forge just has a bit more umph to us since it’s 2m vs 90

[karmic harbor]

with heroic prism

[hazy breach]

@warm marlin Bro we werent even close to getting my last CD with prism of

Too much dps

[karmic harbor]

yeah sims dont show that for me either

but everyone says its a lot better

[shrewd lantern]

well its a myth lily

which still has almost 8k agi passively

[fallen crescent]

Also it’s my toons sim. With my gear.

[wild hornet]

on Araz, does it make a huge difference between finality and something like deeper daggers

[karmic harbor]

this is my forge heroic sim, compared to 723 lily and heroic prism

[warm marlin]

no thought you were only referring to in between flags

[lilac stag]

Myth Lily isn’t exactly obtainable via anything easily.

[warm marlin]

you always 2x dance with flag

[fallen crescent]

Idk my number but the loss was .9%

[hazy breach]

But atleast we killed

[warm marlin]

huge kill

did you not prism with the 6min one?

[hazy breach]

We had some death so i was expecting it to last

But nah we just had too much dps

Shouldve sent at 6 for sure

[warm marlin]

unlucky

[hazy breach]

Or hold blades for like 6:30-7

For some extra stacks

[cosmic olive]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ember hound]

if you have coup ready and the press sec tech, does SS or BS waste unseen blades if you haven't sent the first coup yet? or is it just between the first and second coup?

[vagrant fulcrum]

decided to give to ele sham for n > hc upgrades, im trash enough at sub i have no faith i'd use it well

[unreal turtle]

Sorry if it is a dumb question, noob rogue here. Do we have a talent to apply aoe rupture or do we apply it one by one in m+

[swift tinsel]

Replicating Shadows casts 2 (talent)

well, applies 2 per cast

[alpine skiff]

Hey yall, i hope everyone is doing well :3 Im fairly new to the game and after trying out sum ret pala, i tried the rogue and stuck with that, cuz i enjoy it so much more tbh hehe. I decided to try subtlety, but in struggling alot to understand the rotation 😭
Would anyone have the patience to guide me how the rotation works? In trying to understand the fundemantals and not just memorise a certain chain of attacks.
My DMs are open to anyone whod be down to help me understand and learn the sub rotation, Id appreciate it so soo much (I hope asking for dms is fine, if not i can edit this part out, i just thought this way not so much spam in here). Thank you to each and everyone of you in advance, helping me get better at this awesome game!

[unreal turtle]

So let's say there is a pack with 16 mobs, we need to use rupture 8 times is it worth it? Do we need to apply it to every mob?

[lilac stag]

To give you a mythic comparison. I have a 691 forge + 710 Prism. 723 Lily is 73k upgrade. 723 Forge is 100k

[swift tinsel]

you'd only apply to mobs that'll live ~10-12sec+, and getting 2-3 casts before sending you cds is typically fine

just aim for the bigger/higher-hp ones and that'll be good until your cds are over and you can refresh/apply to the appropriate mobs

rupture is good damge overall in keys, but making sure you aren't delaying your flag just to spread them is important bc your cd windows are your damage

[karmic harbor]

no.9 on nexus mythic uses lily/prism so i should be fine ig

[warm marlin]

did you do any prepping before burn i.e. disorienting symbols

i think i can triple sectec without autumn if i full stack stuff

[lucid jackal]

Have you read any of the wowhead guides and such?
If you start there itll give you a good foundation to ask further questions from there

[warm marlin]

i inted a bit in our good pull and was 1 gcd off

[alpine skiff]

I did Read it, but its so confusing

Maybe ill go over it again

[hazy breach]

Do the opener

[unreal turtle]

Ok, thanks for the explanation

[lucid jackal]

what specifically is confusing

[hazy breach]

And then do the opener every 90s

If you can do that then youre 85% of the way there

[lucid jackal]

I said this during season 2, a lot of the general heuristics are identical

[slow gorge]

im sorry i must no understand something but why on my sim my coup de grace do so much more damage than me : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c2B2gWLwzQutZJVq4bxiqx

[feral barn]

Guys i was wondering, does the cleave from nimble flurry starts starts from yourself or from your target ?
I mean, should i position mysleft inbetween 2 slightly separated targets to be able to hit both or it doesn't make any diff ?

[lucid jackal]

Yourself

[alpine skiff]

I dont really understand why im using the abilities. The only thing that i unfortunately understand is that there are attcks that generate thosr red combo balls and there are abilities that use them up

[feral barn]

Ok ty, so i should try to position myself optimally.
Love all you do for the comu btw

[shrewd lantern]

Like guy said

you get down the burst sequence

and thats 80% of the spec

[cosmic olive]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[alpine skiff]

Ok Ill read through it again and then come back with more specific questions

[lucid jackal]

You press rupture because it does damage
You press shadow strike because it generates a lot of CP
You press evis because its your main finisher
You press sectec because its your highest damage finisher, but it has a CD

You press symbols and dance because they buff your damage

You press flag/blades because they are your big CD

[alpine skiff]

Hmm ok i think im starting to get the hang of it

Im gonna read through the descriptions of the abilities again. Ill come back later!

Thanks yall

[austere zodiac]

Shindig guide is pretty easy to understand from last season

its so nice to gear now that everyon has shit so i get rings traded first key

[sullen hare]

it ain't much but I found that making weak auras with simple stacked progress bars helped me visualize how cooldown timers were interacting with each other as well as the CDR from spenders

so something similar might help you

[austere zodiac]

why are jewelers 2k each

what the fuck

[sullen hare]

some scumfuck bought all of them and flipped them for 10x the price

blasphemites are expensive too

[swift tinsel]

ye blasphemite skyrocketed

null stones too

went from like 27 to 400g

[austere zodiac]

i have like 100 in my bank

[sullen hare]

which is hilarious because blasphemite is literal alchemist garbage

[swift tinsel]

yeah

sold a bunch of my stockpile and made a quick 500k

[sullen hare]

null stones are ~ 240 now

[swift tinsel]

yeah price fluctuations are wild rn

also inky black pots

bought for 30, sold for 90

[austere zodiac]

is lily prism playable

[swift tinsel]

gonna buy a million this weekend

[sullen hare]

lily prism is playable but cursed

[swift tinsel]

they're SO good for EDA

in the sand portion alone

[autumn sand]

Do I do forge + prism in m+ too? And if yes how do I use them in m+, same as in raid and alternate into shadow baldes? If not, I got void-touched Fragment and lily

[sullen hare]

the reason it's cursed is that lily is up for every single cd window

[austere zodiac]

isnt that just a +1 keybind angle

[sullen hare]

forge prism? yes

lily prism isn't because you're using lily every 1:30 with your cooldowns and then prism is just kinda there where you can send it at full stacks and omega blast a pack or boss

but since double on-use incurs a cooldown penalty you can't stack them

[signal moth]

!log

please help me be less shit

i swear

[sullen hare]

me, a blind man leading another blind man:

[austere zodiac]

i started gearing my rouge today and i just sent every runed crest even into champ track to be done with runed

[signal moth]

im not even blind, i have no eyes

[austere zodiac]

seems like a ring craft angle tbh

or neck idk

[round niche]

Is sub a lot worse with sword in oh? Or is it fine?

[shrewd lantern]

dh player?

[hexed sluice]

!oh

[hazy breach]

Its real bad, play with double daggers

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[austere zodiac]

weaving coups feels weird as hell

something to get used to in aoe

[ornate heron]

so im using netherprism as my on use. but for my other trinket.... its really liking hero antenna over a myth lily..

i see the majority of other sub rogues in m+ content using double on use

but my sim insists on using a passive trinket.

am i simming something incorrectly?

its even liking the hero antenna over a hero araz trinket.

[solemn sonnet]

You only want to double on use prism and forge

[ornate heron]

i have the forge

but myth lily sims better than hero forge

[tame terrace]

on m soulbinder do u swap to phaseblades or whatever the danger add is for cds or just full send boss and cleave

[swift tinsel]

cleave

you destroy them

[hidden oar]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[hidden oar]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[shy beacon]

hows ppl playing 30%+ vers and Im at 22% and I got no upgrades on my droptimizer from m+ xP

[hazy breach]

No need to get hungup on stat percentages

[shrewd lantern]

Man where are people getting 30%

who pulled 30 out their ass

[cinder idol]

guys just got a normal prism... it sims better with 2 on use but the other 1 is lily 1.5m cd instead of like araz which is 2 i play them each cds differently or ?

[shy beacon]

Yeah, I know, but wondering cause ppl seem to run double vers/mastery rings, neck, while Im running a crit mastery ring, and about 90% mastery atm

[warm marlin]

i am 30 with motw

[shy beacon]

kinda weird seing those numbers and my stats are so off compared to most rogues xD

[shrewd lantern]

idk i just equip what i have

even though i do own 4 vers mastery rings

of different distros

[uncut oriole]

You use lily till prism is maxed, or a big damage amp is coming and you're at 9+ stacks

[cinder idol]

makes sense thanks! 1 use sthen the other is there any better 2 min trink in m+ to use ? instead of 1.5?

or only araz ig

[uncut oriole]

I think araz is the only 2 minute strong enough to justify that

[cinder idol]

thanks !

[nova dew]

guys when do we stop sending dance to save for next full send, is it just get a feel for it type of thing or is there a rule for it?

[swift tinsel]

~30sec left on flag cd

[grim pewter]

but also depends if you're in an aoe situation, st, or if you're about to lose a lot of uptime.

[alpine wraith]

pog got M prism from frac kill

[grim pewter]

comes down to feel a practice.

[nova dew]

this is assuming no charges and near max cd on dance im guessing right?

cuz 30 sec seems like alot

[swift tinsel]

well you want to have 1.5 charges by the time your next cd window comes up

and you aren't getting a ton of cdr because you're out of cds

[nova dew]

yea makes sense

[alpine wraith]

you can rng around 30 to 40 secs left otherwise you have to stab in between

[nova dew]

yea its usually giga dead when in st

noticed i need to hold earlier for st

[grim pewter]

you're only going to get maybe 20 seconds of cdr back within 30 seconds if you're only backstabbing right up until flag comes up. with shuriken storm you'll get more ofc. also you want to stop touching finishers with 10~ seconds remaining on flag to start pooling shadow technique charges and building to a coup.

[long sun]

Yo I just had an idea

[swift tinsel]

you'd still backstab just not use finisher

[long sun]

Sometimes I accidentally use a builder bc of how delayed shadowcraft refunds are with coup up

[grim pewter]

true, though its mostly just ocasionally tapping it to fish for those coup procs. since the combo points are doing nothing. but yours is a very good clarifying point to make ty. I worded it poorly

[long sun]

Would it be tech to macro evis and shadowstrike together

[swift tinsel]

ye you're essentially just using backstab to not cap energy

[long sun]

And use it exclusively in blades

[nova dew]

yea i noticed that, thought it was just my ping

[swift tinsel]

nah coup is weird with shadowcraft

[warm marlin]

i dont think it will let you spellqueue both

it would only do the first right?

[swift tinsel]

ye

[long sun]

Where it's like
/use evis
/use shadowstrike

[swift tinsel]

presumably

[long sun]

But u just spam it

And it doesn't matter if u get a delayed proc

U just always eevis first

[grim pewter]

edited my msg to how I should have said it to begin with, just to reduce the spread of missinformation. ❤️

[placid crown]

wtfff ???

where is the main spell

[swift tinsel]

are you attacking one target

because it doesn't hit a main target, just those around it

[placid crown]

--"

oh yeah

ofc

i'm dumb

fractilius boss

[autumn sand]

How do I use forge and prism in m+, do I do forge with shadowblades unless prism is max stacked or there is a big burst potential for prism?

[swift tinsel]

from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uQH2cyFpJH9eVS_GC58EHYylpZM7Qtqt-CfHCF-pRBY/edit?gid=161258119#gid=161258119

[cerulean beacon]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[brave moth]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[alpine skiff]

Hey yall, I asked for sum general help earlier abt how the sub spec works. I watched sone guides and read the wowhead guide on sub again and understand the whole rotation a bit better now, but still got sum questions🥲

If all my importang abilities like symbols etc are on a cooldown, I just press backstab to get combo points and eviscerate to spend them, right? And everytime ruptures cd is over i press rupture

This is like my rotation?

[brave moth]

outside of CDs you just do 1 action per minute basically

[swift tinsel]

that's the gist of it yeah

[brave moth]

You just don't have much energy to do anything

[swift tinsel]

spend combo points on evisc or rupture

[brave moth]

But try to finish at 5+ or something like that

[alpine skiff]

Thats what thistle tea is for?

[brave moth]

Don't just do 1CP finishers

[alpine skiff]

Yea got it

[swift tinsel]

you macro that to dance for the mastery

[brave moth]

I am talking for ST. For AoE you dont rly run out CDs

[swift tinsel]

the energy doesn't really help much

[alpine skiff]

Oh ok ok

Dumb question, but which effect do i enchant my daggers with? Poison?

[swift tinsel]

instant poison

[alpine skiff]

Alrighty

[swift tinsel]

and typically atrophic poison on the other

maybe crippling

[brave moth]

and Tea should be used with Shadow Dance "only". It is good(not sure) optimization to not use any builders/finishers if you gonna drop below 30 energy

[alpine skiff]

Got it

[shrewd lantern]

this channel needs a cb truther role

[alpine skiff]

When i have my abilities up i use shadow dance, symbols, backstab, sectec, shadow strike, eviscerate. I watched a guide from someone called shindigg, thats the rotation he used, why doesnt he just spam all cd abilites? Why does he put backstab before sectec?

[shrewd lantern]

danse macabre

[alpine skiff]

Ohh got it

[shrewd lantern]

your first builder generates full regardless due to premed

[brave moth]

Again it is not big deal if you fuck it up, but it is izi to just build muscle memory and gain some dps

[opal saffron]

hey im assa how do i play sub ??

[glossy turtle]

is nimble flurry range based on me or the target im hitting

[alpine wraith]

on yourself

8y around you

[alpine wraith]

you can read the guides

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

jinx

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[swift tinsel]

dang never seen it stack in the same message before haha

[forest pond]

hey, do i use the prism on every shadow blades or every 2nd for max stacks? 2nd trinket is floodgate passive trinket

[alpine wraith]

you can also watch my videos but it is better to have a general idea or what you prefer

[opal saffron]

looks hard 😨

[alpine wraith]

it can be hard

[swift tinsel]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[earnest harness]

Chieftains, the M+ sim for sub is hectic add cleave or dungeon slice?

[brave moth]

Can I see anywhere what those fucking 8 yards actually mean? I still dont know how distance is measured in this game . Not like I tried to check it 😄

[alpine skiff]

After eviscerate, do I just use use shadowstrike as a builder and eviscerate as to use the cbs until shadow dance is over?

[shrewd lantern]

4+ is black powder

if neither secret tech or coup are availble

[slate lantern]

slice is gud

[earnest harness]

Ty captain

[slate lantern]

EVERYONE REFER TO ME AS CAPTAIN FROM NOW ON THANK YOU

[alpine wraith]

jump ahead once

that is more or less the range

[brave moth]

https://tenor.com/view/look-at-me-im-the-gif-20440515

[native zodiac]

gg we are free

[proper estuary]

gz!

[valid vault]

why does it feel like when i get to the end of my shadow dance it stops me from sending a gcd

it feels super weird

[slate lantern]

coup is delayed and kinda weird timing, maybe that?

[swift tinsel]

it might be trying to strike as you're losing your stealth bar

can be a lil wonky

[alpine wraith]

gratz nice now for the huge kirby

[valid vault]

might be that, is there any fix?

[swift tinsel]

unfortunately no, besides paying a bit of extra attention to the remaining duration of dance

its been a pain point

[cyan shell]

ok possibly a dumb question but my brain is confused. so in your opener you hit shadowstrike... and then when do you shadowstrike again? don't you always backstab to get coup even within dance? or am i missing something big

[slate lantern]

shadowstrike is better backstab, only available in stealth

[swift tinsel]

you can get stacks for coup from backstab or strike

you cast backstab as the first builder in dance bc of the premeditation talent granting full combo points, in addition to it granting a stack of danse macabre

[cyan shell]

oh right!

[swift tinsel]

(the only time you ever really consider danse)

[cyan shell]

so in stealth im just shadowstriking

[swift tinsel]

so outside of that first backstab you want to cast strike as your builder in dance

yeah

exception to that is between coups

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[slate lantern]

yes except the two situations you dont

[cyan shell]

second dumb question...... when do you get stacks toward coup? you have to be in stealth and....?

[slate lantern]

coup and first backstab after pressing shadow dance

[swift tinsel]

any time Unseen Blade hits

it grants a stack of Escalating Blade, and at 4 stacks your evisc becomes coup

Unseen can proc from backstab or strike every 20 seconds, but that cooldown can be reset by auto attacks due to Thousand Cuts hero talent

plus, casting Sectech grants a hidden buff that guarantees your next 2 backstabs/strikes proc Unseen Blade

[cyan shell]

ooooh this is what i was missing!!

thank you!!! 😄

[swift tinsel]

🫡

[mint violet]

So having shaman buff makes it a lot more frequent to reset unseen blade?

[summer lynx]

Okay this is a realy random question. However, the next raid rep says it increases the effects of enchants / manaoil. Does that mean whetstones get fucked or do you think thats under the 'effects of enchants' section.

[warm marlin]

Mana oil is already better for me

but it probably works with them

[slate lantern]

blizz allow us to apply mana oil to our whole character you cowards

[swift tinsel]

ye I'm on wax/oil now

finally did the quest to pickpocket it lol

[shrewd lantern]

i havent simmed wax

i just use in one hand because im cheap

[swift tinsel]

had my BS make 300+ whetstones only to abandon them to the AH lol

[warm marlin]

I should probably do that at some point

[shrewd lantern]

is oil real for sub

[swift tinsel]

kept a few jic the vandals buff make them better

[astral axle]

man, i was hesitant about unbinding prism from blades because yet another bind but it kinda owns in m+

[shrewd lantern]

haste kind of meh

[swift tinsel]

the crit part

ig makes up for it

[warm marlin]

Crit is good and haste isn’t worthless

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah but half of it is haste

[warm marlin]

Plus you have infinite primary from prism already

[swift tinsel]

and half of it isn't

[chrome palm]

oil has been simming quite good for me

[shrewd lantern]

I do wish oil wasnt like

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/if-i-had-one-angry-yelling-fairly-odd-parents-mr-turner-gif-16322274

[shrewd lantern]

3-4x the price

of stones

[hollow fox]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.