subtlety

[dusk stone]

is mythic lily better than champ prism?

[honest basin]

"welcome to gapplebee's may I take your order"

[dusk stone]

i picked chest anyway but now thats an intrusive thought

[jagged rover]

but look at this 2nd damage amp

[shrewd lantern]

pillar dam is always funny as fuck

"uhh team i can give moral support"

[hollow spear]

Look at this graph

[jagged rover]

I checked one of the other top logs and they send cds on 2nd pillar set

[dusk stone]

just tell them you are applying find weakness and fazed to it

[jagged rover]

to get another usage of blades during last phase

[dusk stone]

they wont know

[shrewd lantern]

can they bring back

the fazed for group debuff

then we are contributing

[jagged rover]

I'm sad most of my gilded this week are going into a crafted neck

[edgy zenith]

hi, going into dance window with coup up. dance > coup > SoD > gen > sectech > gen coup? or just sectech coup coup?

[jagged rover]

I want to cap out my myth chest

[maiden oar]

yeah i saw a few ppl doing that

[dusk stone]

if the pillars are longer in mythic sending flag on a pillar may be correct yeah

[maiden oar]

devilish guys

[dusk stone]

but then its also optimal to hold flag for like 8 seconds in the opener so idk have to pay attention to when people send

[jagged rover]

the problem is if I send on the pillar its going to explode compared to the others, so we'd have to move people just for that pillar to others

[errant totem]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[dusk stone]

well

[honest basin]

I literally told both raid leads "remember during intermission I am not a real DPS, I do as close to 0 damage to pillars as you can get without throwing"

[dusk stone]

you can just oversend dances

thats an option

[errant totem]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[dusk stone]

you only need like 15 seconds of dance for the amp anyway

its legit prolly best somewhere to send half of flag on a pillar somewhere to have the bigger half on amp

[honest basin]

You can build flag in the 7 seconds before amp

[dusk stone]

well flawless form stacks too

[honest basin]

Same thing

[dusk stone]

ah i see

[shrewd lantern]

im supposed to wait for the adds to spawn and get knocked

before sending the cb sectec into them right

[honest basin]

Full dance as the boss is getting ready to get into amp>as soon as amp hits you're already in dance #2 with 15-25 flawless stacks beating ass

[shrewd lantern]

araz is fucking goofy tbh

feels like less than half your globals matter

damage wise

[dusk stone]

yeah

[shrewd lantern]

[dusk stone]

that sounds right

someone just said the top log reflects that so

[jagged rover]

as long as you can setup on the add spawns and the amp thats all that matters

[honest basin]

It's wild bc literally the damage amp accounts for as much damage as sending CDs on like 3 sets of adds LMAO

Like

[shrewd lantern]

they need to be knocked into the puddle to get the shield removed

dont they

else your opener sec is kind of poopooo

[dusk stone]

i think you actually need to delay prism if youre sending like that

[jagged rover]

I spend so much time saving shadow tech stacks and just reducing dance cdr

[hazy breach]

People have started doing a cursed strat where you stand on the other side

[honest basin]

I think on our kill I did 1.99b boss damage and literally only 900m was outside of amp

[lunar crystal]

Why does the macro for backstab use a castsequence, why not just macro tea, dance and backstab all together at once?

[hazy breach]

So you dont have to knock

[dusk stone]

you can send flag 8 seconds before amp will happen but prism is like 5

[jagged rover]

I just smash prism with blades at the amp, but yeah send flag before

only using prism on first blades > first amp > 2nd amp > end of fight

[dusk stone]

human error means we take shortcuts a lot, or at least i do for sake of cogi overload

[honest basin]

I'm ngl

I don't like, plan or think about fuck all when I play sub

[jagged rover]

I was sending flag at like 26, but going to try to send it tonight at 20 to land the 2nd sectec on add spawn

[honest basin]

I just kinda press shit when it feels right

Makes the game a lot more fun

[dusk stone]

i have a weak aura in my brain that happens if i planned stuff beforehand

other than that zugzug

[jagged rover]

if I'm ever doing weird stuff I setup reminders

[honest basin]

I tried planning out my shit before and like idk man I cba, too much effort

[honest basin]

Press button make number go up

Who cares

[jagged rover]

this is for 2nd soak, where I do finisher > shuriken storm > cloak + step > step > sectec

[dusk stone]

ive always been a parse princess myself so i cringe if i dont do stuff like that

[maiden oar]

where is the boss during this usually

[hazy breach]

Same as always

[maiden oar]

[graceful rock]

so you wait for the adds to walk into the blender

[jagged rover]

that just means the evoker has already hit engulf and popped them before they are in cleave range

🙁

[hazy breach]

X is boss, blue square is add people

Its really cursed because you cant really hit boss if you get it

But its way safer for pugs where you cant reliably have somebody knock

[jagged rover]

I'd rather jump off a bridge than have anything close to a pug on araz

but yeah, we had a lot of failed knocks kill good pulls

[karmic harbor]

I think I'm never playing sin again

[jagged rover]

we had a cursed timing on our last moth kill, right as I was hitting my cds

[shrewd lantern]

[jagged rover]

another 20 seconds and I'd have been around 5 mil

[solid vale]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[honest basin]

Good kill times vs dogshit kill times

Definitely feel the pain of killing it right as you send CDs lmao

[limber relic]

Just DPS harder /forehead

[honest basin]

I'm pressing my buttons as hard as I can

[limber relic]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[drowsy moon]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[honest basin]

Idk why the color is so fucked

[ancient viper]

any tips on 4th boss mithyc? I cant pop dps on there as i should, and cant see where i differ on logs

[honest basin]

My only real advice is to follow the timings that most everyone uses in lorrgs and make sure you're sending your CD windows properly for adds and amp phases

[lucid jackal]

Flag at 20-22

[honest basin]

Don't over send dances on collectors, it ain't your job as a sub rogue

[drowsy moon]

perforated veins

[heavy moat]

This was me last week . About to blast fully stacked prism in execute and boss dies as they come up. Cursed

[honest basin]

Our mm hunter got insane procs as he sent his 18 stack prism so I say my team killed boss to fast but really it was that guy that killed boss too fast

[drowsy moon]

Danse Macabre

[honest basin]

Bro ended at like 6.4m or some bullshit on loomi

[ancient viper]

Ill try, thanks for the advice!

[honest basin]

Delete hunter

[drowsy moon]

Terrifying Pace

[lucid jackal]

Guys

[potent valve]

Is there a good video explaining sub like whispyr does for sin?

[honest basin]

Buy it, you wont

[trail glen]

is araz+prism bis? or antena+prism?

[hazy breach]

Either

[slate lantern]

hachadino has some vids but not many sub content creators

[shrewd lantern]

there was a vers mast for 6m

idk if its still

[slate lantern]

nothing close to whispyrs encyclopedia

but just learn the opener like the back of your hand, then youll figure out the rest

[shrewd lantern]

I only watch whispyr content to watch him pop a blood vessel

over bugs

[honest basin]

I love watching whispyr ramble it's great tbh

Probs wouldn't ever play sin if not for him

[slate lantern]

still dont play sin and it has nothing to do with him

[drowsy moon]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[honest basin]

[alpine wraith]

i do have some full videos for sub

[north spire]

practice on dummies until you get it and then watch logs and hit dummies again

[slate lantern]

Then go into raid/dungeon, do piss damage for a bit til it clicks

[dusk stone]

so like 36k for fully upgraded difference between antenna and maker assuming 20% miss rate

[hidden shadow]

mythic lily or heroic prism?

[dusk stone]

heroic prism no question

[civic raptor]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[civic raptor]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[civic raptor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lilac pendant]

Im curious, how much does Secret Technique crit for?

Since its a 3 strike I never now how much

[summer crest]

Could anyone please advise on the best way to do double on use- Heroic Netherprism and Mythic Lily of Eternal Weave?

[weary crystal]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[shadow lance]

You don't

You double use forge and prism if you want to have double use

But not lily

[woeful wren]

I see ppl playing diff builds in m+

is the rotten getting dropped again?

[dusk stone]

apparently antenna is really overrated for us at least

pacemaker is super close

[slow gorge]

i dont understand so you basically use symbols like what

10s before pull?

[north steeple]

20 is better

you can just press after a wipe when you rez

[slow gorge]

supercharge as infinite cd?

its written?

[north steeple]

yeah they just stay on you until you use them

[dusk stone]

you can use symbols and retai the super charger and by the time you pull the mobs you will have recharged your symbol

[slow gorge]

omg free 0.1% dps

[dusk stone]

its because your recharge timer is overcapping because youre not using it

[slow gorge]

but cant you use like 3 times

?

after wype

so u have full

likethis

[dusk stone]

i think only two supercharge things are retained

[north steeple]

only 2 retain on combat start

[tame dirge]

If you pop symbols before a key starts, do you keep the supercharged combo points and get your symbols charge back?

[slow gorge]

oki ty

[north steeple]

they do stay supercharged so just use it like 20s before key is put in. not sure if you get the charges back on dungeon start

[tame dirge]

Okay sick. I’ll experiment with it on my next key. Curious about shadow blades too.

[dusk stone]

thats crazy that antenna is .43% increase over pacemaker

[hidden shadow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tribal blade]

vers mast ring???

dope

[potent geyser]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[potent geyser]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[potent geyser]

oh shit I am sorry there is a bot spam channel

[summer lynx]

Should I aim for Netherprism antenna or go for Araz ritual forge netherprism?

[slow gorge]

i dont udnerstand what i do bad for my coup de grace to be so low compared to my sim

oups same screen

[dense swallow]

Is there a reason on aoe rotation u don’t just perma spam shurikan storm instead of backstab

[ocean night]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[dense swallow]

On a mythic+ wouldn’t shuriken storm always guarantee 6/7 black powder

Or is it for the coup de grace procs

And would u reccomend using shuriken storm outside of shadow dance only then

Other than a backstab for dance macabre

[plush roost]

Backstab in aoe is neutral

Can just strike

[short radish]

!richard

[hazy breach]

A. If you dont strike your hero talent nor tier set does anything as it based on progressing coup
B. Strike+unseen blade does very high damage whereas shuriken does practically nothing

[dense swallow]

Oh ok

[plush roost]

Esp with prism, the agi goes crazy on unseen blades

[dense swallow]

So shuriken storm basically useless in aoe pulls

[plush roost]

Useful between dances

Full cp is still full cp

[dense swallow]

I will not be abbreviating combo points

But yes

[maiden oar]

ty for mspaint btw good drawing

[potent geyser]

So I cant find any definitive info if I should be tab target rupturing packs in mythic plus or just let replicating shadows do the work

[swift tinsel]

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Rupture

will make it so you just mouseover rupture or rupture your target if no mouseover

no target swapping needed

[potent geyser]

But I want rupture up on as many targets as possible or just ones that will live long enough for the majority of the duration?

[swift tinsel]

any that live 10-12sec+

[dense swallow]

When u cast rupture the second time it should just spread on everyone i thought

[swift tinsel]

basically any non-trivial pisser mobs

[swift tinsel]

it only spreads to two targets, or 1 additional if cast on the same target

assuming talented into Replicating Shadows

[dense swallow]

Oh ok

[potent geyser]

Thanks for the info duder

[swift tinsel]

so you can tunnel into the same target but its only adding 1 to your total rupture pool

[dense swallow]

If u tab to rupture on someone else it still only spreads it to one more though right?

[swift tinsel]

iirc its proximity-based to where you are when you cast it, preferring mobs that don't have it

[dense swallow]

Or does it work differently if u tab

[swift tinsel]

nah no differently

if it hits a target that doesn't have rupture, it adds it to that mob and 1 more

if it hits a target that has rupture, it adds duration to that target and 1 more

regardless of tab-target or mouseover

[dense swallow]

So each rupture is basically two targets then?

[swift tinsel]

yep, as long as it hits something that doesn't have rupture as the main target

just think of it as target+1

[dense swallow]

Makes sense

Do you think spending time getting ruptures out is usuallt worth it

[swift tinsel]

yeah

its good damage

[dense swallow]

Alright ty

[swift tinsel]

as long as it doesn't come at the expense of sending cds

typical move is spread/apply as tank gathers then once they plant you send cds

and after cds apply/maintain ruptures

[dense swallow]

Also for single target when getting close to flag + sb cooldown up, am i good to go as long as i have one dance and symbols up

[swift tinsel]

so 2-3 casts before cds is often the case

you'll want 1.5 dance charges

and 1 symbols with a second with less than 10-12 sec left on its cd

[dense swallow]

Ok ill try to keep note of that

[swift tinsel]

you'll typically stop sending those when flag cd is 30sec or less

[dense swallow]

I’ve been wanting to take sub into raid later since i only play outlaw rn but it’s been a learning curve

When flag is 30 sec or less would u say just back stab and evis

[swift tinsel]

yeah there's a few moving parts but once you know where they all fit is pretty easy and quite fun

it has some unintuitive bits

95% of your decisions with the spec are "will this allow me to fit 2x symbols/dance/sectech in my next flag window?"

the rest is aligning cds with add spawns, vuln widows, etc

[dense swallow]

Ok that makes sense, so basically flag is like a nuke

Worth to save for it

[swift tinsel]

more or less yeah

[hollow compass]

are other ppl getting this bug where cold blood doesnt work unless you restart your game after changing talents lol

[swift tinsel]

blades is the big one but flag is the first part of it so that's the starting line

[short radish]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[short radish]

yeah play sub enough and you realise that even though there's CDR

and you have to decide when to press cds

it's largely static

[swift tinsel]

but yeah your 1.5min cds in flag and blades are your giga nuke time, and your dances between are essentially just farming cdr for your next flag window

[short radish]

unless you have 20 seconds of downtime or somethjing

you'll always flag off cd

and you always send your dances at around the same time

[slow gorge]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[eternal trellis]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[swift tinsel]

yeah the spec is actually quite scripted the more familiar you get with it

[hidden shadow]

how troll is to but backstab and shadowstrike under 1 macro?

[swift tinsel]

I thought they broke that

[green marsh]

has anyone tried sub with hekili? is it decent or nah?

[slow gorge]

someone has data or a video to when to cd for all hte boss raid and or/ waht to talent to use for them?

[hidden shadow]

lorgsss

[short radish]

no

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

the wowhead guide has a really good ordering of buttons to press in your burst

hit dummies and learn that

[remote rapids]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[long sun]

yo

i want to do a liek a ST 40s sim

while forcing netherprism to be at 18stacks

is there a way to do this

[warm marlin]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=latent_energy,stacks=18,first=0,cooldown=99999

[hazy breach]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=escalating_blade,stacks=4,first=0,cooldown=999999
raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=latent_energy,stacks=18,first=0,cooldown=999999
max_time=40
vary_combat_length=0

This is a 40 second sim (instead of 32-48s thats default, but you can remove that last line if you dont want that) with coup stacked and prism stacked

Put these in expert mode at in the bottom box

[long sun]

ty my goats

much thanks

by extention could i also do something like:

[teal dock]

hello Sub Rogues Gamers, may I have your advice on this vault, I already have the Lillys HC

[long sun]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=shadow_techniques,stacks=14,first=0,cooldown=999999

or is that cooked

[hazy breach]

Yessir

[long sun]

w

[hazy breach]

Its obviously kinda cursed unless youre specifically doing it to check hardmode shit as its not really feasible/good to pool that many sht stacks

And for hardmode stuff you can also add raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=supercharge_1,first=0,cooldown=999999
7 of those lines for each supercharged cp, which will make the sim show really silly numbers

[long sun]

bet - i was thinknig more so along the lines of the burn on nexus king

since im usually going into cds with near max shadow technique stacks and max netherprism

and coup de grace rdy

[hazy breach]

Yeye makes sense

Just dont look at p2 damage in logs

Im doing half the damage of my tanks in that phase since im just holding dances for the platform or the burn

[warm marlin]

is it that bad with 1x dance as dragon spawns + symbol sectec before platform

[hazy breach]

Its fine, but i like 4 dances on platform instead

[long sun]

ya i agree i think either way is fine

[hazy breach]

Maybe if we start overkilling platforms i swap one, but thats not the case rn

[long sun]

same

[dusk stone]

how is sub feeling in keys for you shindig

[icy mulch]

We’re still lust on platform but hope that moves today

Everything dies so fast

[long sun]

is goooood

[dusk stone]

are there any sin keys?

[long sun]

play what u want idk

im just vibe keying

[hazy breach]

I vibe with prism+cds nuclear button

[dusk stone]

there's no difference in higher keys as well?

that yeah

feels so good

[timber carbon]

question; Do we use shuriken storm between coup de grace procs, even if we got full combo points after the first one

[hazy breach]

No

[timber carbon]

ok good was confused at first

and why is it we use shuriken storm and not backstab

danse macabre?

[hazy breach]

The whole idea behind the storm is to not proc unseen blade

Backstab and shadowstrike both proc unseen blade

[timber carbon]

ah i see

ty now i get it

so we dont waste unseen blade procs

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hidden shadow]

any idea why my vanish is bugged?

i cant get the shadowstrike after casting vanish

[short radish]

caught in previous gcd still

[cunning notch]

can u lose coup by pressing something else than evis ?

[hidden shadow]

but whi is it breaking if im not casting anything

[graceful osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-gif-25908805

[hazy breach]

No

Coup is evsicerate

[cunning notch]

i dont understand

i was holding

and i lost it

for the whole 20 second rule

[lucid jackal]

U didnt

[cunning notch]

where'd it go

[graceful osprey]

2nd coup lasts for 5 seconds I think

[lucid jackal]

You must be misremembering

[short radish]

because you got taken out of stealth

[cunning notch]

wish i had a video

[short radish]

have you looked under your bed?

[cunning notch]

hol up lemme look

no i lost it

:c

[short radish]

F

[cunning notch]

[short radish]

are you talking about in m+

or in a single instance of combat

[cunning notch]

fuck it i'm making a demonhunter called XillydanXDemon

[manic salmon]

dont

thats cringe

[short radish]

do it

its so cringe

[cunning notch]

in M+ yeah

[short radish]

i may have also noticed that i'll finish a pack with coup proc (not tier proc)

and then go into the next pack

its gone

but i also wasnt paying that much attention

and it rarely happened

[cunning notch]

like i had coup and i'm holding cus the pack was nearly dead so i wasnt gonna slam it without cds

[manic salmon]

ive been playing sub the entire week

[cunning notch]

and next pack we go in

gone

[manic salmon]

literally never happened

[cunning notch]

i mean same

happenned like 3x

[short radish]

yeah well i've been playing all month

and i've noticed it happen before

so bleh

[cunning notch]

i'll try to use Medal to record when it happens

or NVidia capture whatever thing

[lilac pendant]

Whats the ShadowDance usage when big Cds coming soon?

[hazy breach]

Generally dont cast dance or symbols if flagellation has ~25s or less left of its cd

[dusk stone]

i dont understand, are all coup procs not tier procs

[short radish]

first proc is hero talent

2nd proc is tier

[subtle rapids]

I crafted 1h dagger and wrists embellishments. Any suggestions on the next craft? I was thinking either belt or rings

[slow gorge]

neck

[short radish]

whatever youre missing

and need to fix stats up for

[subtle rapids]

I have Big momma's neck heroic track...so i guess ring

thanks

[slow gorge]

in case always sim!!

[lucid jackal]

@hazy breach 1 reclear item

No forge, no prism, again

[plush roost]

its joever

Sitting you for the bugfixed fury warrior

:^)

[hazy breach]

Look at dem nikeys tho

Looking fly as hell my dude

(no dps though since no trinket, so thats unfortunate)

[strange chasm]

pog reclear loot

[lucid jackal]

i mean I already have hero forge and normal prism

Boots were like 68k dps

Prism is 100k tho

xd

[short radish]

[hazy breach]

Ye not to mention thats sim dps

In practice its more since its used on the amps

[lucid jackal]

Dont remind me 👍

Dw I'll take 1/6 mythic tier from my vault for the 2nd week in a row 👍

[wispy crystal]

this is so strange. why is priory rated so highly for me, above Pacemaker?

i thought Priory is pretty bad given it has a 2min CD that doesnt sync up

[lucid jackal]

-90 gilded crests this tier 👍

[short radish]

having a trinket that works every 2nd flag

[hazy breach]

Well you dont have any other on-use

[short radish]

is better than a trinket that works never flag

[wispy crystal]

oh right! so having at least 1 on use still out performs 2x passive trinkets

did i understand correctly?

[hazy breach]

On ST especially the vast majority of subs damage is done inside cooldowns

So yes having a trinket that buffs your damage during cooldowns is very valueable

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

you want to make your big damage bigger

[dusk stone]

yeah but if you use the first you have 5 seconds to use the 2nd or you loe it

wasn't that what was happening?

[short radish]

no

they (we) weren't using the first

[wispy crystal]

i will try to keep farming echo dome for the lily trinket then for on-use

i also hard the conquest one is decent?

[short radish]

yeah

conquest can be done in an hour

join a group and get the crate addon

lily is still better

but it's a good stopgap

[wispy crystal]

or i can just smash my face in a 2s game 😄

[short radish]

should smash face in 6s so it's at least hero track

[wispy crystal]

so Lily > Conquest Trinket > Priory in this order? (assuming i havent had a chance to raid yet)

[split garden]

does the ring recraft still work for crest discounts?

[short radish]

probably

[wispy crystal]

wait hero track is 6 and not 7?

[short radish]

no

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[short radish]

6s will drop hero track but also runed crest

7 drops gilded

[hazy breach]

By 2s he meant 2vs2

Not +2 mythic keystones

[short radish]

oh

right

[smoky geyser]

Is there any practical way to make lily and netherprism work as double on use? Araz and netherprism works so well since araz is on 2 mins so doesn't get auto used every blades.

[short radish]

i've purged all pvp from my brain

[short radish]

2 separate binds (do not recommend its cringe and i hate it)

[smoky geyser]

I was hoping to just not do that lol...

Unfortunate

[dusk stone]

holy

do not do fungal folly today

30 minute delve

[earnest canyon]

during a mythic+ mid fight, if i shadowmeld and immediatly press stealth, do i go into stealth? or do i just stay in combat
i made a macro that shadowmeld and stealths, but it isnt working

[hazy breach]

Never works on bosses, works sometimes on trash mobs

[earnest canyon]

ahh so its just a chance thing i guess

[hazy breach]

High success rate if you are not in melee

But also it doesnt really matter as sub

[dusk stone]

why are you stealthing mid fight though

or needing to

[earnest canyon]

more combo points when low, and vanish is on cd

i thought that was the gist of choosing nightelf haha

[wispy crystal]

oh wow lily is a 2% DPS increase for me over Priory + Pacemaker combo

[tribal blade]

not surprising, priory trink is garbage for sub

[plush roost]

guys lily is actually the secret sauce 🙂

who need sprism

or araz

or antenna

[short radish]

https://wago.io/DAGg3PbVo

[broken stirrup]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[flint sundial]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[flint sundial]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[flint sundial]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[tribal blade]

yoooo i don't need to worry about my tank dying and losing stacks to insta melees??

[gilded ferry]

i know that this is a matter of time, but, getting the inbetween timers is hard

[warm marlin]

we still have only seen 1 forge (and it was on normal)

and 2 in vault

[wispy crystal]

!UP

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[warm marlin]

(on a tank/healer)

across entire tier

[lilac stag]

rocking my lfr forge

[bright elk]

is there a TLDR for how to use forge+ netherprism trinkets? just got both in our heroic run

[hazy breach]

Rotate them with blades

[bright elk]

if i have a macro that does /use 13 and /use 14 on the next line that alternates them right?

assuming I have forge on 13 and prism on 14

[hoary imp]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[remote rapids]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[upbeat sorrel]

does timewalking give heroic gear?

[steady dune]

about how log can we hold cooldowns for a amp phase before it becomes detrimental?

[upbeat sorrel]

in the quest box i mean

[dusk stone]

i think its just champ

[hazy breach]

If you have a damage amp thats 100%, then you can lose pretty much an entire set of cooldowns as the one in the amp will be worth twice as much. It will be roughly equal in that scenario

[warm marlin]

especially if it lets you prep 18 stack prism or just prep coup/dances better

[steady dune]

gotta get me a prisim first cry

[dusk stone]

you move a dance around usually if youre going to delay cds

araz is a good example

[honest void]

Smilers

How much is Araz's amp again?

[dusk stone]

did something happen to stat weights

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure all amps in the raid are 100%

Except dimensius on non-mythic difficulties

[steady dune]

stat weights change based on your current stats

[dusk stone]

i feel like this was lower last i checked

[brisk onyx]

[steady dune]

Looms amp is the entire second half right?

[hazy breach]

Oh yeah looms amp isnt 100%, youre right

Its uh 25? Could be 20%

[warm marlin]

33 on mythic smh

[hazy breach]

Damn i know nothing

I just hit buttons

[steady dune]

might be worth it to hold for like 20 seconds if you can still get two sets of cds in the last phase i guess

[honest void]

Based Raichuman

[dusk stone]

if i have everything 704 minimum and shoulder is crafted, but have a craft to send; do i send it on neck? or bracers

[plush roost]

prism mia again boys

im cooked

[dusk stone]

is neck higher prio just because of stats or what

only thing with haste is bracer

[warm marlin]

bracer good, i really like ring because you can recraft it to fix stats and if you get a good ring you still can slam it in the other slot

[dusk stone]

45/45 on crit/vers atm

i have flood neck too

[tawdry latch]

are we trying to align our coup de grace on our dance in between cds?

[hazy breach]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/gxBXeLPCHIv73d6nF5WQRe7Y9NpPdkMm49ZkcFkEaGA/https/media.tenor.com/TU0BkXJT8mkAAAPo/serpicoandnelly.mp4

[brisk onyx]

[dusk stone]

are we suppose to be low prio for forge and antenna?

[steady dune]

My RL told me I was high for forge because it wasnt bis for other classes/specs

not sure how true that is, but I aint going to complain

[dusk stone]

got told opposite myself

[steady dune]

well I def am not going to correct my RL XD

[dusk stone]

only world where that is true and exile was #1 on dimensius was because of splits then

[honest void]

Tbf as long as prism is prio

U can be happy

[dusk stone]

ig

[honest void]

Ngl I hate when people just roll on stuff that is like c tier for them xd

[dusk stone]

i got my champ one but the line for heroic/mythic seems quite long

[honest void]

At least you got one

[steady dune]

can you pull one out of any of the weekly boxes?

even champ is a huge upgrade for me

[honest void]

You can pull any raid item (minus tier)

[steady dune]

thanks

[dusk stone]

i ran some sims, pacemaker / antenna is really really close

[solid lily]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[zealous hedge]

Is that first macro supposed to stop tea from beig used if u have the buff already?

[hazy breach]

No, it allows you to spam the button with it using it twice

[strange heath]

tea is off gcd so if you spam you will burn through all quite fast

[split garden]

anyone else feels like sometimes when they r doing their cds the gcds and weakaura in the center of ur screen feels like its lagging a little and it just causes a super bad burst window?

[zealous hedge]

how does that work

[upbeat sorrel]

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24223774/hotfixes-september-2-2025

what does this mean

for unyielding

[lucid jackal]

It means exactly as it says, no?

[honest void]

Passive dmg on it does dmg more

[upbeat sorrel]

it was failing to split before?

[lucid jackal]

It wasn't splitting damage properly before

[upbeat sorrel]

oh ic

[lucid jackal]

It was probably just doing flat aoe damage

rather than flat aoe, scaling with target count

[warm marlin]

yeah it did seem to be pumping aoe

mass aoe that is

[quaint lodge]

Doesnt shadow techniques only work off generators

Why are we holding off on finishers

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jedRHxJBKijrfb5rVosbz6

am i reading this right that i should be eating the "Salt Baked Seafood" (over the main stat food) in combination with bubble wax + mana oil?

[honest void]

Not to spend ur ST stacks before ur in ur cds i believe

[little epoch]

does sub generally suffer in m+ with chain pulls?

[quaint lodge]

but ST stacks get consumed on generator, not on finisher

[quaint lodge]

A little bit cuz we don't benefit from the first dance, but nothing to stop the tank from doing it

[honest void]

Yeah but shadowcraft

[warm marlin]

if you spend, then you have to generate again

and then you're going to use them

[little epoch]

lets say i am with premades and they pref to chain is that fine for my overall dps?

just for the edge of timer

[honest void]

U just get to finish more in cds at the end of the day

[bright elk]

does raidbots accurately sim double on use? I thought the forge+prism was bis and you alternate them but lilly+prism is coming out slightly higher. does it mean I use lilly on pul and 1min30sec and let prism stack up for 3mins?

[hazy breach]

Lets assume its doing 100 damage for easy calculation.
At 10 targets before it would do 100 damage to all of them, total of 1000 damage.
Now it will do 250 damage split evenly among them, for a total of 250.
So yeah its a bit unlucky

[hazy breach]

It sims them accurately yes

[quaint lodge]

But backstab also consumes them, so whats the difference between these two things

Like hitting backstab does rthe same thing in this case as hitting evis

[slate lantern]

So it's now garbage tier and I don't have to feel bad for not getting a single one yet

[stray oyster]

!mistake

[upbeat sorrel]

oooh okay that makes sense

seemed like it was doing a lot in m+

[warm marlin]

finishers only consume them in symbols. you want to spam backstab to cycle unseen blade while not spending any sht to save them for cds

[stray oyster]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[hazy breach]

It might do like 2-3% of your overall now instead of 4-4.5% ye

[warm marlin]

and backstab wont consume them if youre at full cp

which you will be

[quaint lodge]

ahhh i see

[warm marlin]

backstab to full cp and then spam backstab at full

[quaint lodge]

makes a lot more sense

just slamming backstab while at full sht stacks

ok this makes sense now

ty

[steel horizon]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[umbral fulcrum]

how do i want to enter amps?

[honest void]

With cds

[umbral fulcrum]

like what gcd should the amp start on for araz

[warm marlin]

you flag around the time he stops moving to channel

[umbral fulcrum]

i assume i want to start before the amp actually begins

[indigo lark]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[umbral fulcrum]

and cbsec late in the amp

right?

i just dont know what im doing wrong tbh, probably misplaying more than anything

im using 18 stacks of a 704 prism and barely moving on the meter

[honest void]

If you look at lorrgs you'll get a general idea

[warm marlin]

are you flagging late?

the amp is 12s so you want your last 12s of blades ideally in there

need to start ramp like 7s before the amp

[umbral fulcrum]

yea im probably flagging late

i have to be ethical on the pylons

[short radish]

booooo ethical

[brave harbor]

Am I stupid I can't get the second sectech during first dance

so random

[tepid trellis]

Proc better. Noob

[brave harbor]

wait

is it really random

I mean is it normal to not be able to get the second sectech

[lucid jackal]

its random yeh

[brave harbor]

fml

[zealous hedge]

wait what proc makes it random

[brave harbor]

I was litterally here for hours

[lucid jackal]

Unseen blade tier sets

[short radish]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[zealous hedge]

ohhhhhh riht

right*

[brave harbor]

isnt it shadowcraft

[lucid jackal]

I mean whether you get 2 sectecs in ur first dance doesn't really matter though

[warm marlin]

if you do the cheese you always get it in tfd 🤓

[lucid jackal]

Right?

[tepid trellis]

You just need coup to Proc and get okay ish craft refunds

[tepid trellis]

Not really

[brave harbor]

isnt it a bit more better doing sectech with more danse macabre stakcs

[warm marlin]

getting the second sectec fully in tfd is pretty big

[tepid trellis]

The stacks Will drop

[warm marlin]

that one is rare tho

[tepid trellis]

Before clones hit

[lucid jackal]

Its like idk

It just doesnt really matter

Itd be great if it always happened

But like, oh well

Lol

[tepid trellis]

Even when mine is rdy i dont always even send it

[dim moat]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[lucid jackal]

I never do it I always thought it was incorrect

[rancid crow]

I need real help… I thought I was doing so good

[obtuse shard]

How hard it is to fit second sectech in p3 dimmy

[lucid jackal]

parses in keys aren't damage

its key level

U did a 2

[honest void]

Oh damn is that how it works?

https://tenor.com/view/ohh-oh-damn-oh-daymn-daym-damn-gif-10129893223082536574

[rancid crow]

Sorry, I’m a little new to reading these logs. So I should disregard this?

This log I mean

[honest void]

Thought it was just ur dmg based on others who've done that key

[lilac stag]

worrying about a log from a 2 is the issue

[rancid verge]

is blackjack a valid talent or does not having tricks mean you steal aggro kinda often

30% damage reduction sounds huge

[bright elk]

how can I view trinket usage on bosses? Im trying to check the timelines for top logs but when a person is listed as using lilly+prism Im only seeing the prism casts on the timeline

[rancid verge]

but ive never played sub without tricks so idk

[swift tinsel]

prism and boots, its a good day

[honest void]

Eh

Depends tbh

[rancid verge]

on priory sharpshooters, for example

[honest void]

Probably not

[lilac stag]

Lily, prism 9 Lilly prism 18 ect

but Lily and prism

[rancid crow]

So wait, we don’t parse keys? Or just don’t parse low keys?

The reason I had that parse is because I wanted to test how sub felt in keys, I’ve been sin all season so far. I picked a low key so I wouldn’t brick someone’s key doing something stupid.

I was just surprised at the parse tho, that’s all

[lilac stag]

you spent 28 minutes in a 2

[bright elk]

wait sorry not sure what you mean there, is it alternating or using lilly > lilly > 18stack prism

[lilac stag]

When someone is likely pulling 1/2 the dungeon at once.

[brisk onyx]

[brisk gull]

how do you do fellow rogues.
ass player here thinking about trying out some sub as well. any duel spec players have an opinon between the 2 in raid?

[warm marlin]

the points parse you linked is literally just io based

[honest void]

Can play either anywhere

[rancid crow]

Yes, I was helping my guildies gear their characters. I was the only person above ilvl 685

[warm marlin]

you can look at the key% parse for damage which is sort of an alright metric but its still bad

[lilac stag]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[rancid crow]

I believe

[honest void]

A good parse for me in dungs is if the key gets timed

[mossy spear]

sadly that is not up to you

:D

[proper stone]

hmm can anyone help with a sim...
Got empowering Crystal mythic tracked which will give me 1k more base agil then my current peacemaker
Simming says lower il peacemaker is better though bloodmallet is saying crystal should be stronger at that level??

Is this because the proc on peace is guarenteed crit, and the base 1k agil doesnt matter so much?

Trust sims

??

[honest void]

Well the key is usually abandoned before it's not most of the time

[mossy spear]

said the same exact thing for me so i took socket lol

[rancid crow]

I just swapped to sub and I’m trying to get better

[proper stone]

hah nnws ty

[rancid crow]

What does the parse number actually track? How quickly you compelted it? Or how much damage you did?

[inland galleon]

can someone tell me how players have double the stats from fiber showing up on murlok? i cant find anything anywhere

[somber barn]

/plater

/wa

what's the thing?

!plater

[honest void]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[honest void]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[honest void]

No plater profile afaik

But u can search in wago for rogue ones

[lucid jackal]

In dungeons it's key level, in raid its damage compared to other people within your spec

[rancid crow]

Oh, that’s good to know

[torn storm]

how should i sim for saladbar

[rancid crow]

I’m still very low when sorting by bracket though, and I don’t know why. I think these parses were done before I got my enchants though, so maybe that has something to do with it, but it’s hard to imagine it would affect it that much

[lucid jackal]

Just st patchwork?

[torn storm]

okay ty

[lucid jackal]

Yeah it's probs just bad play

No offense

[warm marlin]

you can get it mildly often in tfd

i only got the cheese off in maybe half our pulls tonight and i think both clones hit in tfd maybe 4/17 pulls or something

happens more consistently in lust too

[flat marsh]

did anyone find prism pulling mobs by just clicking on the nameplate?

[somber barn]

Ty, kind sir.

[warped ferry]

anybody got the casual weakaura that has the big yellow bang on your screen for when you have coup de grace?

[wraith girder]

how much ruptures should i be spreading in aoe before i do my burst

[mellow gull]

!plater

[mossy spear]

is this ragebait?

[rancid crow]

..

No

[mossy spear]

have a read a guide?^^

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[jagged rover]

grey parses are either very behind in gear, dead, or doing something fundamentally wrong

[upbeat sorrel]

question if during my opener my 2nd sectech comes up before my first dance expires, does it make sense to send a pandemic symbols during the last few seconds of that dance to send a 2nd sectech

[warm marlin]

Yes

[upbeat sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/aight-bet-aight-bet-cat-gif-25610485

[raven ocean]

im seeing more of us drop finality for rotten is this just per dungeon or preference?

in m+

[upbeat sorrel]

i think its for find weakness

or something like that

[mossy spear]

guaranteed find weakness

[raven ocean]

i assume you want to take this over Finality if your low on crit or dont have antenna or pacemaker?

[lucid jackal]

Makes fw more consistent, it's slightly more aoe for slightly less st overall

Same idea as cb vs tea

[icy tinsel]

is it kinda RNG hjow much damage we do on the same pull each time?

[lucid jackal]

There is variance in this game yes

[mossy spear]

bro both my war and druid have antenna in vault

ofc my rogue doesnt

madge

[sinful marten]

Is neck no brainer

[lucid jackal]

Probs

[warm marlin]

Forge could be good if you plan on doing nexus/Dimensius soon and don’t have it already

[sinful marten]

Cba heroic forge

I got the ulduar trinket that sims the same

[warm marlin]

would feel bad not taking neck tho

[lilac stag]

Can craft a neck

Can’t craft forge

[maiden oar]

dungeon jewlery is so precious

the vers/mast ring last season was very hard to get for some reason

[lilac stag]

Can buy a ring if not poor.

[maiden oar]

true!

[warm marlin]

They’re unique equipped

[lilac stag]

3 ilvl is whatever. Idk. Forge hard to pass imo

But we’ve not seen 1

[mossy spear]

logic gate and nerubian

pogging

[maiden oar]

ok im too poor to even have one of them so its fine

[idle veldt]

Anyone have a macro that will cast backstab out of stealth/dance but cast shadowstrike in stalth/dance

[mossy spear]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[mossy spear]

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab

[idle veldt]

oh sweet that works

bonusbar:1 huh, what is that

like the bar you get when in stealth I guess

[junior light]

i got lilly and crystal, should i pick forge or pacemaker? i farmed flood 10-15 times no trinket

[idle veldt]

I guess sim Lily+ pacemaker vs Forge+crystal

Forge is probably gonna be harder to get in the longrun so I'd go for that. But sims r lyfe

oh wait myth pacemaker

yeah that's probably the winner here

[clever delta]

is the arakara good ?

[chrome palm]

odium angle

[junior light]

nah its 4/6 hero pacemaker

[ornate lake]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f6WD3HcMCkXMAkkX3Vm5vU

Not a single myth piece is an upgrade lmao

[mossy spear]

is this bait? or is it actually better than pacemaker lol

[bleak night]

its pretty decent

only for pure st though

[mossy spear]

oh

[bleak night]

while pacemaker has value in aoe too

[mossy spear]

i c thanks

[leaden thunder]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[junior light]

1st

2nd

[dense swallow]

on single target after your opener, and you make it second flag, do you repeat the opener exactly?

2nd flag > symbol > dance > backstab > shadow blade > secret tech > evis spam into cold blood tech again?

[kind narwhal]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[upbeat sorrel]

if we play the rotten in M+ do we change our rotation on aoe

[lucid jackal]

I been storming over backstab as first global

But idk what's exactly correct

[upbeat sorrel]

should we be doing that in aoe anyway even without the rotten

[slate basin]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[fallen depot]

whats the move for the spark this week ?

[upbeat sorrel]

i just didnt use any nothing to craft

[fallen depot]

yeah thats what i was thinking

might craft outlaw MH

[clever delta]

how do i explain to my guild that i need forge a not antena ?

[bleak night]

take both

[short radish]

link them dimensius and saladbar kills

[clever delta]

btw did they change something in sims for delve belt?

all sudden non delve 707 belt sim better

when last week it was like 20k dps behind

[short radish]

okay link them saladbar since there arent any public dimenisus kills logged

[vernal junco]

plz add a “freeze” button to the vault, similar to the trading post

[silver parcel]

!macro

[short radish]

yoooooo whats this

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

timewalking trinket

[sinful marten]

I got that but no prism xd

[vernal junco]

which one should I use, lily or araz?

[short radish]

araz

well

araz + prism

[lucid jackal]

With your words..?

[vernal junco]

I dont have prism

[short radish]

get one

[vernal junco]

.

sounds ez

[short radish]

i think he should do an interpretative dance

[junior light]

And if i dont have prism? Should i go for
Lily and pacemaker over araz and crystal?

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-dance-dancing-squidward-dance-squidward-dancing-gif-21773330

gib trinket

[short radish]

if no prism

then just lily + passive

[upbeat sorrel]

How is your sim so high

[sleek tide]

Is CB better than thistle tea

[rocky ocean]

I like tea

[solid vale]

!logs

[junior light]

!logs

[mossy spear]

worth it to delay blades on naaz till adds spawn?

for parses ofc

do am i gonna end up loosing an entire set on blades... im not sure

[jagged rover]

depends on kill time, this was our kill this week on mythic

your holding for 2nd big add set anyway, so you have a lot of room at the start of the fight

[lucid jackal]

Do a dance symbols on pull. Send flag when Ur next sectec is ready

Past then do Cd's on cd

Cds will hit first add release

[mossy spear]

thanks guys

[oak urchin]

should I take mythic neck or legs?
I mainly raid.

I am leaning on neck since legs drops from loomithar

neck is vers/mas, but so is the leg if catalyzed

[short radish]

there are multiple legs

there is only like

2 necks

[feral knot]

we can craft this week?

[short radish]

yeah

you can craft every week

but i assume you meant we get a spark this week

[feral knot]

truers

[short radish]

it alternates spark/charge

[slate basin]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[warm marlin]

I will trailblaze with prism passive

[rancid crow]

Why do we use shuriken storm beteee coup in single target?

[upbeat sorrel]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[short radish]

perfect for me to copy your log

[warm marlin]

prog is private bozo

[short radish]

wtf

thats cringe

[warm marlin]

The tech goes hard on soulhunter tho

[quiet smelt]

did the nerf hurt bad.. are we not using talent anymroe ?

[warm marlin]

Pretty sure prism passive is just better on that fight

[short radish]

yeah i reckon im gonna swap back to that this week

top log had lily on use + prism

but pressing a 2nd key bind is too hard for me

[rancid crow]

Also, when do we use eviscerate first, and when do we use shadow techniques first?

[warm marlin]

[short radish]

oh antenna

i only have pacemaker

[warm marlin]

i am a bit loot funneled this tier

[short radish]

im kicking myself a bit for passing on the mythic forge trinket to our devoker

[acoustic matrix]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/crQDvxAwBX2FjKVL?fight=1&type=casts&source=26&view=timeline
I feel like that was a perfect run and I only logged 82. Any advice on what I'm missing ?

[short radish]

your trinket sucks

get a pvp trinket

unless its bugged you also have the wrong belt setting

[acoustic matrix]

Oh yeah forgot to change for sub

what do we want ?

[short radish]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[short radish]

ideally prism

but lily will do

you can also use pvp trinket if youre suffering

[acoustic matrix]

I meant for waist

[tepid trellis]

crit

[short radish]

this opener aint it chief

[acoustic matrix]

Flag had 1 sec cd on pull

Pretty sure that didn't lose me dps tho

[short radish]

then you afk for 1 second

yes and no

but little things add up

and shitty trinket also is shit

[rancid crow]

Would anybody mind peaking at mine? I’m new to sub

[tepid trellis]

"swear prism+passive is the play" mfer sits with prolly mythic antenna

[rancid crow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/whmVM3yHvN71YJ2C?fight=3&source=14&type=damage-done

[short radish]

you do it again

[warm marlin]

it is mythic, but mostly because im not casting on cd

flag is at like 3:30/5:30 ish

wont work with 2x on use

[tepid trellis]

like any fight that doesent line up perfectly for prism+forge is just prism+tenna angle

[warm marlin]

ye

[plucky parrot]

prism passive seems good on fights where you can't slam cds on cd

or perfect line ups for prism+forge ye

[short radish]

what were your flag timings?

[tepid trellis]

or if you need specificly stronger cds on a set timing

[frail kindle]

finally on dimensius

[tepid trellis]

kinda like last two bosses

[plucky parrot]

soul hunters is nice since your last flag is always delayed since it comes up during last intermission

[tepid trellis]

i didn't even get to use my last flag

[plucky parrot]

I sent forge and cb dance before the phase just to get it on cd

[tepid trellis]

boss dies same sec we came out of last intermission

[warm marlin]

0:04, 1:34, 3:34, 5:42

[tepid trellis]

they had 0 health going into it

[plucky parrot]

then whatevre prism stacks I had after intermission

[warm marlin]

prism on cd

[plucky parrot]

yeah I had like 5s of dance on the vengeance dh before it died

then had to step over to the void dh to get the rest before we killed

[short radish]

read the guide because this also ain't it

[plucky parrot]

turbo scuffed

[warm marlin]

those times are the only ones you can really get consistent 3target cleave for entire blades

[remote sigil]

New to sub myself, if i'm opting out of black powder spam my damage is going to be lower overall than someone that does use it right? I'm leaning more into priority adds and nimble flurry.

[warm marlin]

if you cast on cd they get scuffed

[short radish]

yeah i was noticing the jump away is a bit scuffed on cd

[plucky parrot]

^yeah same

[short radish]

im pretty sure your symbols is running out by the time of your 2nd sectech + cb

[rancid crow]

I read the guide, is it the secrech placement? I was confused on that.

[short radish]

you're also in the m+ build im pretty sure since you have tea casts

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[rancid crow]

Looks like the guides are saying use sectech first now?

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[tepid trellis]

has been for like the entire expansion

[short radish]

please

read this

then read the explanation

then hit a dummy

[tepid trellis]

ayo dont hit me

wtf

[short radish]

[rancid crow]

Why do so many other guides say to always use evisc first for the danse stack? I’m so confusedddd

[short radish]

are those guides in the room with you right now?

[plush solstice]

how u guys feeling about crafting offpiece early? i dont raid, ik it s not bis for long term but for earlier power spike?

[rancid crow]

Why are you being rude? I came in here for help, I’m clearly having issues

[short radish]

because you've been told to read the guide multiple times and you clearly have been reading some random other guide

and im also curious

[rancid crow]

I read the one on wowhead though

[short radish]

what guide is saying evis first

[rancid crow]

There’s a few YouTubers saying it. I don’t remember which ones, there’s not a lot of video guides on sub though

[jagged rover]

I've seen guides say to backstab first for danse stacks, but thats the only time you ever do anything for danse ever

[rancid crow]

I started sub last season and that was one of the “tips” I picked up from them.

[short radish]

please i beg just read https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#opener-st-explanation

[jagged rover]

other than the initial backstab, dont ever think about danse macabre

[acoustic matrix]

I don't reapply Rupture if it's >20 sec
And I had reapplied at 1:23

[tepid trellis]

i made a typo, do we care enough to change the 9 to a 10, thats the question

[rancid crow]

But I swear I did read through the guide though, I was just wondering if there were other circumstances that I was misunderstanding