subtlety

[swift tinsel]

11/10

[warm marlin]

i cant entirely tell how helpful it is

[stiff spear]

oh?

[warm marlin]

i think it is good but im not sure

[night sparrow]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hazy breach]

But its been bugged all expansion so surely they fix it soon right

[night sparrow]

can u link plz ? ♥

[dusk stone]

Isnt it an animal rights violation to make stealthi build the wa

[swift tinsel]

I've been sitting on building until it passes the tick and haven't gotten the cp wastage

may just be anecdotal and I'm liking it more than I should

[swift tinsel]

not in game atm

he posted the full import string lol

[turbid edge]

Ok so how many stacks will give a refund, and if I see greater than that number then I know the next finisher will give me full refund to press it again and save a gcd or two to respond?

[night sparrow]

lmfao

[warm marlin]

i feel like im dying sometimes on nexus because im staring at the bar the entire time rather than listening for the sound like before

[swift tinsel]

I haven't looked but I wonder if you can add a condition for when the progress bar passes the tick

and have a ping

but by that point the gcd is just over anyways and you missed a spellqueue for a lil bit

[warm marlin]

both sounds would play at the same time if it refunded tho no

[swift tinsel]

unless you react giga fast

[swift tinsel]

I think the timer threshold on shadowcraft refund is shorter

[dusk stone]

You have time to react

[warm marlin]

the tick is the latest possible time it can refund

[swift tinsel]

I don't recall if I've heard the shot when coup refund happens late

[dusk stone]

The problem is if you can do.it while other shit is going on

[night sparrow]

I'll eventually ask Stealthi when we both connected, seems pretty comfy, fking 1.2 gcd for no reason

[swift tinsel]

right, the shadowcraft one has a time since refund occurs after successful spellcast iirc

[lucid jackal]

Yeah

It just lets you preplan your globals better

[swift tinsel]

but I think that timer is shorter than where the tick is in stealthi's bar

[night sparrow]

the gambling reaction time to ShT proc is something lol

[warm marlin]

hmm

[swift tinsel]

I'm 95% sure its added as insurance so you don't get pings constantly from blades filling your bar every builder

but I'll have to look into that

[earnest canyon]

Is there a big difference between 1 and 2

1. going into shadow dance with 0 cp, then using backstab, then using finisher

2.going into shadow dance with full cp then
using finisher then using backstab

[swift tinsel]

so you can add a trigger for power, change triggers required to custom with a t[1] and tp[2] then add this to conditions and it works

[hazy breach]

No, either is fine

[swift tinsel]

as a quick thrown together

[warm marlin]

this guy is a wa wizard

[swift tinsel]

lol I just like tinkering

I'll mess with it some more to see if the sounds overlap between the coup bar and sht refund

[dusk stone]

How many sht stacks for refund. 7?

[swift tinsel]

oaky pause its being weird

[hazy breach]

Yes it fills your cp to max, which is 7

[dusk stone]

So if you had 12 it would refill only 7, then autos would get it back to 7 and give again

Not 7 then 5

[swift tinsel]

might need to add sod being active to that condition

but as far as i can tell it seems to be working

will keep futzing

[maiden oar]

are you able to use 60m tricks prepull?

and if so can i make sure its going to the correct guy on wcl

[icy tinsel]

when we have flawless form and less than 7 targets, should we be evis or black powder?

[hazy breach]

You press BP at 4 or more targets

[fringe lava]

if i get adds for M forgeweaver and we are doing the no knockback strat am i just fucked and just have to slam flag late?

[icy tinsel]

ok

[lilac pendant]

How many targets to Shuriken Storm in Shadow Dance?

Or never?

[lucid jackal]

Boss should be tanked in a better way so you can hit it, otherwise yeah

ur damage is GG

[fringe lava]

or can i dip into the pool and say fuck the healers

[hazy breach]

There is no target count where it is better

[lucid jackal]

U could probs just cloak it

[fringe lava]

im immune soak

so im fucked

[lucid jackal]

[hazy breach]

However inbetween your 2 coups if you need to build CP you would storm

[lucid jackal]

Put the fries in the bag bro

[hazy breach]

!coup See #2 here

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[gray bobcat]

Tactical cheat death

[earnest canyon]

If we dont need to build cp eg because of refund, do we still storm

or send two consecutive coups

[lucid jackal]

its only to build CP

So if u dont need to build cp, dont do it

[hazy breach]

You would not use a combo point builder when you do not need to build cp no

[pine mirage]

We dont care about spreading Rupture if playing trickers right?

[jagged coyote]

Should I be using the netherprism trinket on every CD window after the first?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[lucid jackal]

Rupture does a lot of damage

so outside of CDs u spread it around as long as shit lives

This talent helps a lot for dungeons

[lethal lark]

If you apply rupture to 2 seperate targets will it apply to 4 with Replicating Shadows?

[haughty ibex]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tender granite]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[lucid jackal]

ye, it smart targets

[dusk stone]

Only the 2nd rupture smart targets

[lucid jackal]

well, duh

[dusk stone]

I add that because ive seen some sin/new sub players in here saying otherwise

[bleak night]

ic works the exact same way so no reason it would be assa players saying it

[dusk stone]

They have tho

[uneven fern]

which sin players are u talking to

wtf

[dusk stone]

With IC its actually on the guide iirc for it to be fine to rupture off of your main target

[uneven fern]

yeah because it is fine

[dusk stone]

It is not the case for our rupture

[bleak night]

not due to it working any differently from rs

[rocky sparrow]

guys im pressing anything in the pilars phase in forgeweaver?

[uneven fern]

"fine" doesnt mean it spreads 3 new bleeds

it just means the damage difference is so negligible its fine to not care about minmaxing it

lol

[dusk stone]

With our rupture that is not true

Thus why i said that

[short radish]

backstab

dont let your raid team guilt trip you into pressing dance

stand strong homie

[rocky sparrow]

w

[hazy breach]

If theres some adds next to your pillar you can storm too, but you kinda wanna make sure your coup is ready for the amp

[hazy breach]

Me doing literally half the damage my tanks are doing in p2 of nexus king (the one with the beams)

[short radish]

im acutally kinda sad we decided to lust pull

missed out on another amp phase

but we're too stupid to do intermissions properly

[hazy breach]

Too much damage now anyway

There will never be a second amp phase

[short radish]

yeah

[dusk stone]

18 stack your pillars like a true hero

Go for the 100

[pine mirage]

so how do you guys handle opening on a pack with cds?

[hazy breach]

Yeah so it dies when the other pillars are at 30%

[pine mirage]

guessing unless its a prio mob we dumb into black powder?

and do we pre spread ruptures before sending cds or ignore spreading, send cds and spread after?

[dusk stone]

Look man i just accuse them of being slow

[hazy breach]

Sub is truly peak right now, youre insanely broken at certain things but completely useless in other areas so that makes up for it so were not completely broken overall

I like pressing my nuclear button with 18 stacks prism

[wispy crystal]

Do we have to tab target for this?

Or we can keep spamming rupture on the main target, and it just auto applies to the mobs around it?

[sleek tide]

is it the move to craft 2nd weapon tmrw?

[dusk stone]

The first doesnt smart target no

[hazy breach]

Unlikely as offhand is the least impactful slot

[sleek tide]

oh really? the weapon attack and stats on offhand dont weight the same as MH?

[wispy crystal]

Oh so it makes sense to tab to a new target and rupture right?

[hazy breach]

You can sim it but probably a ring or something, assuming you dont have items to put crests on

[hazy breach]

Well mainhand dps affects your damage

Offhand doesnt besides white melee auto attacks done by offhand

[sleek tide]

ohh

[hazy breach]

And offhand has the least amount of stats, even lower than bracers

[ornate lake]

35M burst on first boss Floodgate.

Mage on suicide watch

[dusk stone]

You essentially throw away the talent you take specifically to make it worth it if you dont

[sleek tide]

@hazy breach maybe belt to replace?

[hazy breach]

Sim it

[wispy crystal]

Oh right 🤣 that makes sense. I've just been spamming rupture on 1 target and letting it auto spread around.

I should be more pro active in tab targeting then

Btw guys, without telling me to sim it.

Which are the BIS trinkets we want to aim for, from M+?

[short radish]

i also like that we acutally do damage in dances

[hazy breach]

Lily and pacemaker ig?

Idk theyre not prism though

[somber tendon]

is signet better than the claw in this lineup of trinkets I currently have equipped

it surely has to be, even to use every other?

[short radish]

get a pvp trinket

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[icy mulch]

^ only takes like an hour or 1.5 doing pvp crates in war mode

[dusk stone]

Lily and maker are like 1.5% behind highest trinket sims last i check but someone can fact check me if not

[turbid edge]

On the duo? Or u went big momma first?

[signal glacier]

what are best m+ trinkets

[turbid edge]

I have myth lily and champ prism (and hero pacemaker). The prism beats pacemaker but it's kind of a pain to use. Is the proper way to basically skip lily every other shadowblades to 18 stack the prism? Or maybe I just take the DPS loss and use pacemaker rofl

[short radish]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[short radish]

just use prism off cd

[wicked urchin]

i just blistered my whole mouse thumb lighting birthday candles and raid is tomorrow

what have i done

[ornate lake]

No big momma

Can I pop the prism at 10 or 12 stacks? Or should I always wait for 18?

[lucid jackal]

Just use it with blades

[solemn sonnet]

Only time you hold stacks is if saving for a dmg amp or important aoe like on last two bosses of raid

[wispy crystal]

Got it! Will need to target farm lily from the echo dome 👌🏻

[turbid edge]

Was that in response to my question? I use lily and prism

[dense swallow]

Hey I've been playing outlaw for past few seasons and wanted to learn subtlety and I read the guide but is there any good video explanations for the rotations

I've been practicing the rotationa bit but think it'd be nice if there is any good macros to know or specific scenario rotations

[pine mirage]

@lucid jackal

Opening pack, spread ruptures or cds then spread outside of window
Also, thistle tea.. we save one stack for cds or not important?

Lastly, Lily.. do we wait for trink before sending Blades or just use trink when it comes up during cd window

ty in advance

[lucid jackal]

Dont delay CDs to spread ruptures

Do it during grouping or in between dances/sods when u wont overcap

but delaying flag is a bad idea

I don't play thistle tea, I prefer cold blood, but if u play tea just macro it to dance, no thinking at all

[pine mirage]

so we dont press thistle outside of dance got it

[lucid jackal]

No

U just macro it

U dont "Press it"

Persay

[pine mirage]

Right thats what I meant

with the macro in here

I was looking at archon and people running non cold blood build but ig wrong?

Also, during cds if non prio mob we just send finisher on bp?

instead of evis right?

[lucid jackal]

Nah ppl play tea, I just dont personally

Tea is more aoe cb is more st

[pine mirage]

gotcha

[uneven fern]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pine mirage]

gotcha and guessing cb just send with secret tech?

[lucid jackal]

2nd sectec in cds, yes

[pine mirage]

thats pretty simple

prob higher keys cb looks better

[turbid edge]

Do I need to wait for 1st dance to end completely before 2nd dance starts, or overlap slightly is ok?

[pine mirage]

more st is sick

[lucid jackal]

its like 1% in either direction

[lethal lark]

I think it's the opposite.

[pine mirage]

really idk 16s 17s ive been doing st feels so much nicer

like hoa

shards dying quick

feels great

when they live

feels gross

[turbid edge]

it doesnt "look" better but it's better for timer

anyway, do i need find weakness tracked at all, or can i remove from my platers to take out clutter?

[short radish]

yeah kinda. just send prism with the macro and use pacemaker

using double on use thats not forge trinket is so cringe

i'm trying it for soul hunters

and i fucking hate it

its not worth the effort

[obtuse orbit]

been a minute since i played sub , do we still use evis when nimble is up, or just full send bp in aoe

[short radish]

4 target bp

always consume coup proc

[obtuse orbit]

perfect thanks

[warm marlin]

prism passive is perfectly fine especially on longer fights

[short radish]

yeah im going back to it next week soul hunters

acutally no

im getting a forge trinket

[plucky parrot]

manifest

[fringe lava]

well just did like 20 pulls of m forgeweaver with the no knockback strat and i get the adds during flag window like 60% of the time

[short radish]

i stupidly passed it up to our devoker

[fringe lava]

and im just sending it as if im not gonna get adds

[short radish]

but he was running a lily trinket so kinda felt bad

[fringe lava]

looks like imma just switch specs for the fight

[short radish]

and he's also a massive pumper

[fringe lava]

gg

[plucky parrot]

probs not a bad call then

[short radish]

you wouldnt happen to raid with a certain waffle would you?

[plucky parrot]

I ended up getting the 2nd forge that dropped

[fringe lava]

uh i don't think so?

[plucky parrot]

so sitting pretty comfy

[short radish]

witness a fun convo about someone also looking at the no knockback strat

i feel sorry for you

that strat sounds painful

[fringe lava]

I'm also with a new guild where I only raided with them since mid way through undermine

so i have no say essentially

even though objectively it is definitely more damage for everyone in the raid to do that strat

[turbid edge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7xDd81294BfTtkLj?fight=last&type=casts&source=21&view=timeline

can someone take a look at my opener on target dummies? One thing I forgot is to delay my 2nd symbols for right before sectech. let me know if i misse anything else

[pine mirage]

yo is it normal to be like perma 10 energy outside of cds?

like im just kinda afk right?

[stray talon]

Just checking I understand, so outside of dance/CDs with 3+ targets in m+ for example, we never shuriken storm if we don’t have flawless form even with a giant trash pull. The priority is to backstab until we get any amount of flawless form stacks first correct?

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

yes

just take your hands off the keyboard

stretch them

rotate your wrists a bit

you gotta look after yourself

nobody else will

[pine mirage]

ah bet

okay I was like "man am I fucking up"

yeah during cds im chillin

[vagrant thorn]

that's the time I finally have enough free brainpower to interrupt casts in m+ 😛

interrupt during pull before I start bursting, interrupt after burst is over 🤣

[acoustic matrix]

Should I avoid dropping below 30 energy to avoid consuming a tea charge outside of cooldowns ?

[acoustic matrix]

Used to be like that too until I started doing focus kicks

Then you literally don't lose dps and you kick like a boss

[vagrant thorn]

do you mouseover macro focus mobs on every pull? got a weakaura for audio warning when focus starts casting?

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah, when the tank is gathering I focus a mob and go with it whole pull

Can easily change outside of burst windows too

[vagrant thorn]

yeah i'll have to do that..

annoying but it is what it is 😛

[acoustic matrix]

Man I've been telling myself that for a long time and delaying it

But once I made the shift I realised I was missing out on a huge thing for M+

It's literally a rio score game changer

Cause when you get into higher keys one cast is enough to wipe you

[vagrant thorn]

yeah 100%...

[turbid edge]

anyone mind taking a quick look at this opener? it's just like 30 secs long.

also, when i get a coup proc and i am out of dance, do i prio going back into dance/symbols to use it? or doesnt matter?

[vagrant thorn]

on the 3rd dance you used supercharger on BP instead of secret technique 🙂

I guess on 0:42 that evis could be BP instead for a minor gain

I think in the "real world" it matters more that we're not wasting globals or mistiming major bursts instead of these micro optimizations

[obtuse dirge]

how much RNG comes into account with getting a coup early in the opener. sometimes i get it on first dance and other times i dont for a bit. am i doing something wrong?

[lavish rose]

i think just rng

usually you get it

[vagrant thorn]

I think as long as you're using shadow strike during dance that's all you can do really 😛

[obtuse dirge]

yeah most of the times i do, just feels a little bad. as long as iit'not something i'm messing up

what about the 1 backstab?

[vagrant thorn]

outside of dance in aoe you gotta occasionaly backstab instead of just shuriken storm to keep proccing unseen blade

[obtuse dirge]

i thought you do a backstab in dance for a macabre stack?

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[short radish]

!cheese

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[short radish]

doing the disoriented strikes cheese can help

and makes life a lot easier

theres also more cheese where you strike -> evis -> vanish -> flag -> rupture

[obtuse dirge]

interesting, ok thanks

[vagrant thorn]

outside of dance you do it if flawless form isn't up

[chrome palm]

Max said that the total amount of damage on their dimensius kill that was phys was 1%

There’s no way that’s true right? The rogue alone is like 4% of their damage as phys at least

[haughty mural]

That’s essentially the old opener

?

Or am i tripping

[short radish]

its one of the old openers

best cheeses are the aged cheeses

[split garden]

just played rogue/sub in raid for the first time would someone be willing to go over a log of my frac kill? i feel like i did 0 dps even tho it was a good KT and i thought i was doing the rotation well

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nd7G1tvKMRNq3B8w?fight=3&type=casts&source=11&view=timeline

any critques r welcome just trying to get better, doesnt seem like i got 8 gcds in dance once which im not sure how to press the buttons faster but i guess im doing something wrong, especially given i have 14% haste and still cant do it

[clever delta]

Max say lot of things

[limpid sage]

Remember to use storm between coups when sblades is up

So you don’t waste stacks of ub

[split garden]

yea i felt my self fuck that up in the last 2 burst windows

thats strictly only with blades right?

[limpid sage]

If you’ll gain full cp from it it’s the same

[warm marlin]

You are pressing dance way too soon after your previous global

[limpid sage]

6 targets or sblades

That as well ye

Effectively wasting 1 global of dance

[warm marlin]

Like rupture -> dance 0.2s later, you’re still on gcd for another 0.8s

[limpid sage]

Esp considering coup has a gcd of 1.2

[warm marlin]

Instead of the normal 1s of leeway you have to fit 8 globals (reduced by 0.2s per coup) you’re giving yourself 0.2

[limpid sage]

So you lose 1 global in dance if you waste 0.6s in dance (given you use 2x coup)

[real delta]

I'm seeing some guides and people say that outside dance, while storming 4+, we should still be using backstab to proc flawless form, and others have said that it's such a minor increase that they don't bother and they simply spam storm into BP. Which one is more correct?

[split garden]

[limpid sage]

If you feel a tingle in your feet that you procced ub you send it

[real delta]

So if I got that feeling that UB is ready for me, then just send it but otherwise don't fish for it with repeated backstabs?

[limpid sage]

Yeah I personally wait a tiny bit after flawless form has fallen off with pressing anything

Pool energy for a tiny bit just to increase chances of getting flawless form up

But I have no idea how much of an increase it is

[warm marlin]

Relatively certain it has nothing to do with the finisher damage from flawless and it’s just a decent approximation for guessing when your ub cooldown is up

Since you want to cycle asap

It’s also a bit hard to use to guess now since flawless basically never falls off with the 4p

[limpid sage]

It first becomes something to think about if you’re doing prio rotation outside of cds ig

Or 3 target count since you throw evis

[fair cloak]

Question

[short radish]

Incorrect Answer

[fair cloak]

Can you trinket swap mid pull

[short radish]

hope this helps

no

[clever delta]

Storm between coup is so pog

[fair cloak]

Id i vanish and put myself out of combat and I split second swap

[clever delta]

Specially when game decide to return your cp in the end of global leaving you no time to react

[short radish]

if you vanish in raid youre still in combat

and you cant change gear in mythic+

on use trinkets also go on a 30 second cd when equipped

[last gate]

why we dance (BACKSTAB) sectec?

like whats the reason of back stab instead of ss?

[wicked urchin]

i think there was some trinket swapping shenanigans back in shadowlands but yeah no

[short radish]

do not bring up the forbidden technology

[wicked urchin]

danse macabre stacks

[short radish]

(it was legendary + talent swapping)

[last gate]

but whats the point still if you use ss you have 1 too

like no matter what we are using it with 1 stack?

[wicked urchin]

….if you ss and backstab you have two

[last gate]

does it stay when my dance runs out?/

or do i get stack even before dance?

[sage saffron]

each unique ability during shadow dance

[shrewd lantern]

it was equip deathly shadows prepull

[wicked urchin]

i don’t even think that’s the one i’m thinking about

[wicked urchin]

no it wasn’t a rogue thing

there’s a clip of atlas doing a trinket swap prepull when they were on denathrius

[shrewd lantern]

maybe yeah

deathly shadows prepull was so cursed

[last gate]

its so complicated

nvm

[shrewd lantern]

if anyone pulled early

[wicked urchin]

i didn’t look into it because it wasn’t relevant for me so maybe it was actually nothing

[short radish]

how much gain was the deathlyshadows prepull?

i kinda forgot

[last gate]

not gonna hurt my brain i just roll back assassin and spread bleed

[shrewd lantern]

not massive

gave you 5cp though iirc

[short radish]

yeah

[wicked urchin]

it’s really not complicated

[short radish]

and it was just so we could snd on pull right?

[wicked urchin]

just backstab at the start of dance

[shrewd lantern]

mostly yeah

[short radish]

man thank goodness we don't have to cast snd anymore

[shrewd lantern]

you skipped the snd and just went right into flag

[wicked urchin]

best change

[last gate]

i still cant make my self to cold blood on 2nd sec tec

so i just macrod it

AND RUINED MY DPS

[shrewd lantern]

well i say that but halfway through sanctum we just devolved

into kyrian with blood gems

[wicked urchin]

i remember s2 having an entire castsequence macro for prepull

so cringe

[turbid edge]

the first 25+ secs were just nothing, so i think that first evisc was for snd. but the rest was ok?

[primal quiver]

I just started playing, max level. Any tips?

[short radish]

yeah just play the game and get gear

[chrome palm]

practice doing the shadow blades sequence on a target dummy

[short radish]

have fun doing dungeons

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

check the opener sequence on wowhead

[shrewd lantern]

dark days....

[short radish]

get that muscle memory down

and youre chilling

[chrome palm]

back ye devil

[shrewd lantern]

anyone who tells me they like sl or early df sub

sussy

[split garden]

can u build stacks towards coup whilst holding a coup proc?

[short radish]

gloomblade my beloved

[short radish]

no

[shrewd lantern]

this was pre gloomblade

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[split garden]

can someone explain to my small brain how they get coups that quickly together?

[shrewd lantern]

also pre pv

4p

oh that one

is just rng

[split garden]

good comms

[shrewd lantern]

if that's yoinka's log

he just chain reset

his UB

[lusty epoch]

after you use secret tec, your next two builders are guaranteed to generate coup procs, and there's a chance that you proc 2 at a time, so just some luck

[shrewd lantern]

that log is peak example of a tfd highroll opener

[limpid sage]

At that point I’d just use tea build prob

[limpid sage]

Shadowcraft can refund cps at 7 stacks, so they sent Coup -> got refund -> sent coup again

[wicked urchin]

ye i don’t understand why people consider sub hard

once you have your burst window locked in that’s like 80% of it

[short radish]

because understanding when to press

is hard

[lusty epoch]

if you compare most other classes, you have 5000 more keybinds i guess?

[short radish]

when they really need to realise everything just sync's to sectech

[clever delta]

Its harder than ret or warlock i play as alts

[short radish]

because people are like

[shrewd lantern]

the funny part about that log

[short radish]

you gotta track rupture sdance symbols sectec

also flag and sblade

when its really just

[shrewd lantern]

is technically didnt he mess up

not doing strike flag rupture

[short radish]

track sectech cd and flag cd

[shrewd lantern]

into cds

[clever delta]

Did you see current destro warlock st build, it use two buttons

[lusty epoch]

i laughed when i made a shadow priest, didn't even have to shift bind anything

[wicked urchin]

do you? i only have extensive key binds for m+

raid is simple

[shrewd lantern]

i feel enhance has alot of binds

because that class has so many

situational talents

[limpid sage]

Ye but at least they don’t have multiple off gcd buttons

[split garden]

is crafting ring good stonks on sub?

[proven plover]

I mean flag runs out after SB does, not sure if its even a loss to not go into cds after first flag finish. tbh he is even starting cds with more flag stacks that way

[limpid sage]

I think that’s the true reason people find it hard to play compared to other specs

[proven plover]

or am I missing something

[shrewd lantern]

yeah idk

didnt matter anyway

since he got god UB procs

[proven plover]

he might be cooking though

since first sectec is amped by more flag stacks

is it the only time he does that?

[shrewd lantern]

but arent you sitting on secret more

doing that

[proven plover]

ye ig

unless he syncs it this way?

[shrewd lantern]

lowk probably within error

[lilac stag]

For me enhance is like outlaw for dps but with 80 extra utility / situational binds. It’s so bloated.

[shrewd lantern]

outlaw doesnt have that many situational talents

[proven plover]

interesting still

[limpid sage]

That opener is technically better if he uses the prepull cheese

[shrewd lantern]

shamans definitely have alot of buttons they have to press

[limpid sage]

But he did mess up not using storm between coups later

[shrewd lantern]

that only sometimes are taken

the mess up dont matter when you get like 6 UB in your opener

and sent 4 coups first dance

[primal quiver]

shadow blades sequence?

[lilac stag]

The dps binds are similar. Enhance gets way too much extra crap to bind after that. Let’s need a macro and a WA to pickup totems.

[split garden]

so ur telling me, that wont happen every opener?

[shrewd lantern]

nope

[split garden]

why does he re symbols early btw?

[shrewd lantern]

supercharge secret

[split garden]

ok ngl

[shrewd lantern]

oh wait in his scenario

he did it to buff the 2nd coup

and secret

which is probably huge that late in danse

to buff the 150% coup too

[split garden]

ive been waiting for dance to fall off in opener before going for the 2nd sectec is that just wrong

[shrewd lantern]

you normallly wont get the second one in your first dance

without procs

[proven plover]

I mean he also still fits the sectec into first dance, he did it to also get it up probably

so for the cdr and the amped coup

[shrewd lantern]

yeah once you get into the flow

he probably saw that sending coup with symbols there

would get him secret in time

[fossil forge]

Any mythic raiders here rn

do yall spam evis or bp in cds on araz

[shrewd lantern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQVjKPmayRkDhYcZ?fight=3&type=damage-done&start=1211946&end=1232109

i like how even with god procs

his opener is only 4m more damage than the ele's

[split garden]

is that why is fract is just casually 700 mil more than r2?

[shrewd lantern]

araz adds usually dead by the time second coup is sent

no time for filler spenders

[proven plover]

depends on your group tbh. technically evis is better if your group doesnt struggle with adds at all, since you are killing the boss faster that way but purely dps wise bp is better

[shrewd lantern]

bp by pure numbers is higher

[cobalt palm]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[shrewd lantern]

but yeah im surprised people's adds live more than 3-4 gcds

[proven plover]

you are deciding between having more dmg on adds (and more overall dmg) and less dmg on boss vs lower dmg on adds (and less overall dmg)

[fossil forge]

The first adds where everyone in cds disappear in 2 seconds

[shrewd lantern]

nah for us its the first 3-4 sets

i send bp i guess on the set before intermission

[proven plover]

ours live pretty long idk but we might be dog

[shrewd lantern]

i dont dance that one though

kind of want to have one dance sectec for collector

[fossil forge]

I cant figure out how the n1 log is 8,5m and my best perf was 7,8

[shrewd lantern]

to not do complete piss

[fossil forge]

Im either griefing my cds or i am a pig

[shrewd lantern]

his big hits got more on the adds

is my guess

random bp wont swing that much

[fossil forge]

Ive been Timing my second sectech for add spawn

still missing a Lot

[upbeat garden]

Ok,hello again,got 4 set finally switched to sub the moment I got it ,did my first key and Im sad , any advices or is a guide in here?

[shrewd lantern]

wowhead guide

[lilac stag]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[upbeat garden]

On last thing before I go read some guide ,we ever use black powder during shadow dance ?

in big pulls

[lilac stag]

eleem pushes keys. All 3 are good guides.

4+ targets is BP

[upbeat garden]

even in dance window?

[shrewd lantern]

but yeah idk araz damage depends entirely on sectec/coup add damage

and burn phase

[lilac stag]

4+ targets is BP

[upbeat garden]

ty will engrave that in my head

[fossil forge]

3 target If find weakness fazed+ blades no?

[lilac stag]

don’t over think it

[wispy crystal]

If in Shadowdance, and there are 4+ targets.

Rotation is shadowstrike main target - black powder right?

[proven plover]

yes unless coup is up

[alpine wraith]

yes and remember to use secret technique and coup when up

[shrewd lantern]

someone remind me

is sectec damage calculated when you use

or when the clones hit

[upbeat garden]

So ,how much mastery vers is good to have ? Atm Im trying to fix my gear since I have switched from assa ,atm I have 104% mastery and 13% vers ,whats the % I should hit ?

[shrewd lantern]

whatever your sim says

[crystal oasis]

Do we still finish on 6+ cp for the 2nd coup outside of cd's or just send after a single bs?

[shrewd lantern]

no rogue spec is hard fixated on a stat %

well except outlaws with their dumb haste tax

[lilac stag]

Ilvl and avoid haste.

[wicked urchin]

secondary stats are at the point where basically everything is good minus haste for us

yeah that lmao

[shrewd lantern]

you cant fullsend into 2 stats nowadays

without dr

we were already dring late s2

[alpine wraith]

yea mastery stack is dead with the heavy dr

even tho number looks funny the dps will suffer a lot

[shrewd lantern]

it seems to not dr

with racials though

[near pollen]

Yo. Is it important to apply find weakness in aoe on multipule targets or just follow prioty list from guides?

[alpine wraith]

why would it dr racials

[shrewd lantern]

idk

[alpine wraith]

fw is important but bp hits hard enough that you can comfortably send it at 4 targets

[shrewd lantern]

so wait if i send sectec the last gcd of dance

[alpine wraith]

if you want you can tab target strikes to get fw on several targets

[shrewd lantern]

does it hit as if my dance fell off

or not

[alpine wraith]

and storm in between coups if there are at least 4 targets

it updates dinamically

so it will do shit dmg

[shrewd lantern]

the clones take like

[alpine wraith]

you want to have things up up to 1.3 secs

[shrewd lantern]

a gcd to actually hit right

[alpine wraith]

so flat/blades/dance

[lilac stag]

1.3

[alpine wraith]

first clone at 1 second at 1.3

and uses the server tick rate

[shrewd lantern]

wait i thought secret was you did the first hit

then 2 clones do theirs later

[alpine wraith]

so need to have things up at least 0.4 before first hit

[lilac stag]

it’s a lovely spell

[alpine wraith]

yea you do the phys then clone 1 clone 2

shit spell

likely they hate it so much

[shrewd lantern]

like i wasnt sure if it was dynamic

or just animation

so probably unsafe to send cb sectec in tfd dance

unless it has 2 secs left

at least

[alpine wraith]

depends sometimes you can send that one because you dance instantly after it ends but i dont recommend

easy to miss the hits inside the second dance

even if theoretically it is fine

[shrewd lantern]

it'd be weaker no?

since a new dance starts macabre at 0

doesnt it

[alpine wraith]

losing cdr on sec tech would impact more

as you are using an evis instead of sec tech

losing 7 secs

but same as above it can be risky

[near pollen]

So shuriken storm in shadowdance to apply find weakness in aoe is not worth over shadowstrikes?

[chrome palm]

If you’re talking tfd in raid you typically get 3 dances back to back

[shrewd lantern]

did he just barely fit it

in that log above

[alpine wraith]

no idea

[shrewd lantern]

this shit

[alpine wraith]

he did the second dance fine yea

[chrome palm]

The phys part is more minor so

[tribal blade]

wait a second, does wound poison work on the last miniboss in halls

[alpine wraith]

yes

[tribal blade]

holy

shit

i've been TROLLING

[alpine wraith]

that is why you get the 2 talents left side

for crippling and wounding

[shrewd lantern]

so i guess immediately dancing there keeps dance amp for that cb sectec?

[alpine wraith]

it does not keep the amp

but DM is not as big as you think it is

[chrome palm]

I like to have a macro with cold blood shadow dance and secret technique to spam

[alpine wraith]

vs getting more cdr on sec tech and unseens faster

[lilac stag]

Please turn in your 1% card

[shrewd lantern]

i mean shouldnt his first dance have ended

before the second secret hit

[alpine wraith]

yes but did you read what i wrote

or you know what that means i can explain again

[shrewd lantern]

he did it for cdr yeah

[tribal blade]

AHHH

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/washed-old-jasonconcepcion-gif-21233448

[tribal blade]

how do i make a WA to remind me to put on wound poison for that guy

or i legit just use wound the entire dungeon

because instant does literally nothing

[chrome palm]

If target = wound poison fucker and not buff wound poison show icon

[alpine wraith]

you want crippling for the runers

[tribal blade]

true true

[tribal blade]

the issue is it makes gathering super troll

[silk vessel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tribal blade]

unless you just don't touch anything before a pull is gathered

which also sucks

[chrome palm]

I did most keys last season on assa without crippling

Actually troll

[silk vessel]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[alpine wraith]

yea i would just play wound or instant tbh

[shrewd lantern]

i guess i just got confused if that second secret was basically doing damage like it was outside of dance or not

[chrome palm]

You can go to buffs and see if his dance was up the whole time

The clones are clearly in dance but the phys part might not be

Probably is though

[shrewd lantern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQVjKPmayRkDhYcZ?fight=3&type=auras&start=1211946&end=1232109&source=14&ability=185422

like that?

[chrome palm]

See how there’s no gap

[shrewd lantern]

yeah at most less than half a second

[weary tree]

How tf do some people do 1:20 flags?

[shrewd lantern]

i guess the game still registers as the first one didnt fall off

[chrome palm]

I’m on mobile so

[shrewd lantern]

tfd dance is 12s right

[chrome palm]

Maybe I can’t see

[chrome palm]

They definitely do not

[weary tree]

?

[alpine wraith]

you can do it if you get autumn

[weary tree]

Ah right

[alpine wraith]

likely for saladbar

[weary tree]

Autumn

[chrome palm]

Oh ye

[alpine wraith]

to have it up for platform

at 2:50

[chrome palm]

Greedy autumn havers…

[weary tree]

Maybe ill ask for that then

[tribal blade]

yeah it can make things really bad

[short radish]

how much should i gaslamp my hpal to give this to me?

because i could probably do it

[alpine wraith]

tell him bro trust i do lots of dmg trust look at me bro bro

[shrewd lantern]

is autumn a big loss for them to take

[weary tree]

Ill just screenshot this and send it ez

[alpine wraith]

they already kinda play it i think

[chrome palm]

They use it on themselves

[alpine wraith]

problem is fire mage and arcane also get a lot from it

[short radish]

fuck mages

im taking autumn

[alpine wraith]

but just tell him you can get him some corndog

[shrewd lantern]

i havent heard mage players cry about it every 5 minutes

[chrome palm]

Arcane doesn’t get anything from autumn on nexus king tho

[short radish]

they can go without it for one tier

[shrewd lantern]

so i forgot it existed

[chrome palm]

Aren’t they already lined up perfectly?

They’d just sit on cds with autumn

[shrewd lantern]

also someone explain to me how i never get PI as assa in pug keys

[alpine wraith]

fire gets overall dps arcane depends on fight no idea how it goes for saladbar

[tribal blade]

i looked it up, there's more arcane parses in raid than all 3 rogue specs combined

[shrewd lantern]

but as soon as i do sub keys

PI on cd

[split garden]

what m+ build r u guys playing rn?

[alpine wraith]

as you might expect i play rogue

[short radish]

fuck mages.

[shrewd lantern]

like

whos mans is PIng a sub rogue

[short radish]

im also pretty sure everyone and their mother is rolling an arcane mage

[fossil forge]

Watch mage get buffed anyways

[short radish]

our OTP boomkin has an arcane mage now

[tribal blade]

oh you know it

[short radish]

our healer who never plays a dps has an arcane mage

[weary tree]

Is it only useful until 2:55? Or any benefit from later on as well

[short radish]

to be fair, they probably dont know that sub doesnt care about haste

since they dont know about sub at all

and they just see you doing big damage

so they send

[tribal blade]

nobody knows anything about sub

[short radish]

^

[tribal blade]

except they think black powder is padding

[weary tree]

And that we have funnel

[shrewd lantern]

mage players

[short radish]

sub has excellent funnel

tettles or dratnos during the most recent RWF

[acoustic matrix]

I had a tank apologize for not letting me stealth between pulls xD

[tribal blade]

that's a really bad arcane

[alpine wraith]

well we always get dps from it but at least 1 helps to have flag up for the burn too

[tribal blade]

arcane can keep up in overall

[shrewd lantern]

thats most arcanes

[alpine wraith]

the second one is more for dmg

[shrewd lantern]

i play dh as alt because i hate myself

[alpine wraith]

and if you get 2 or 3 over a fight you get 1 extra dance from it

[shrewd lantern]

so i get screwed over by realz bad decisions

twice

[alpine wraith]

you might need to look where to fit it

[tribal blade]

although just bricked a 16 halls in first pull and this was overall

[alpine wraith]

for example on burn you can triple dance it

[cursive vapor]

had a dh yesterday tellin me I didnt deserve the loot cause I was only second in dps

[shrewd lantern]

vdh players

are animals

ngl

[acoustic matrix]

Had an arcane do good damage in last key

He was carrying boss fights

And decent in packs

[shrewd lantern]

i found a pug mm

who did 12.5

[tribal blade]

i've been stomping on most arcane mages i play with tbh

[shrewd lantern]

in a floodgate

[tribal blade]

i did more dmg on 1st boss of 17 DB than the arcane

[shrewd lantern]

granted he was 714

[acoustic matrix]

I don't have any on use trinket so my damage is a bit meh

[tribal blade]

but i went into that with 18 prism stacks 🙂

[shrewd lantern]

and actually in a good guild

so....

[fossil forge]

Whats ur gear gang

[shrewd lantern]

if you're a main raider in a top 10 guild

i imagine you know how to hit buttons

more than 99% of pugs

[acoustic matrix]

Gear helps a ton too

But 12.5 is nuts

[shrewd lantern]

mm little gamba

yes

[cursive vapor]

anyone tell me what damage increase it might be from a 691 dagger to 720 crafted?

[acoustic matrix]

Sim it

[tribal blade]

if it's mainhand it'll be big

[shrewd lantern]

your worst slot to send 720 if offhand

[tribal blade]

like probably 4-5% i would imagine at least

[acoustic matrix]

It's a flat damage upgrade so sim is actually quite accurate on that

[tribal blade]

actually not entirely sure, but it'll be big

[short radish]

make sure you craft an agi dagger and not int

[shrewd lantern]

why do i see so many

[tribal blade]

you can't make me

[shrewd lantern]

int daggers

[short radish]

because game is hard

[shrewd lantern]

i swear i havent seen warrior players with an int 2h

[cursive vapor]

but im hella dumb maybe i need some int

[acoustic matrix]

I have a friend who inted his last 2 seasons with wrong stat craft lel

[shrewd lantern]

are ya'll dumber than warriors

[tribal blade]

you can solve the issue by just recrafting the same wep every season

[fossil forge]

This. And u save gold

[short radish]

nah there are pulls where warriors had their best in slot rolling for spellpower

[acoustic matrix]

That's assuming you crafted the right one in the first place

[shrewd lantern]

what about the evoker that disenchanted his

mid pull

[short radish]

????

acutally i think i've heard of stuff like that happening before

not that case

but i have heard of that

[tribal blade]

i accidently DE'd a tier piece on the 1st week of this tier, i almost shit my pants

[cursive vapor]

ye mainhand, maybe ill reach 7B dps overall at the end of a 10 key instead of 5,5

[shrewd lantern]

hold on let me see if i can find the clip

[short radish]

also the icyveins boomkin guide told them to craft an agi staff at the start of this expac

[shrewd lantern]

well you see

the guide told them to play better spec

[short radish]

okay @final wasp stop hiding behind your alt account

[alpine wraith]

he wants to feral is for fite

[acoustic matrix]

More like 5.8-6B

[tribal blade]

i still can't get over the fact that my guild's arcane mage had the audacity in raid to complain that rogues are OP

[cursive vapor]

fair, still gotta upgrade other slots tho

[acoustic matrix]

Well tbf Rogue is very often good tbh

[cursive vapor]

also craft the neck

[cloud rover]

Yeah because Arcane isnt the Main Character

[acoustic matrix]

But ye mage talking about OP ^^

[cloud rover]

Sub has the better 1:30 Cooldown

[tribal blade]

bro arcane mages EVERYWHERE

on EVERYTHING

[topaz venture]

do u guys sim patch or ds generally

if u wanna do m+

[fossil forge]

Mage has been broken for the last 4 expansions

[cloud rover]

Yeah but Sub comes close or is pretty good at some phases in Raid

So they feel threatend

[acoustic matrix]

fuu says ds is optimized

[cloud rover]

[tribal blade]

lol yes

[topaz venture]

got it ty

[shrewd lantern]

i had a lock tell me once

[final wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-arrive-gif-25229198

[shrewd lantern]

that lock was only good because of PI

peak

[short radish]

fuck warlocks

the only thing i hate more than a mage

is a warlock

[shrewd lantern]

amen

[acoustic matrix]

If you really want a good picture you should do patch too tbh. With 1 boss 5 boss 8 boss and different durations that mimic packs

But that's tryhard ^^

[cloud rover]

Ret Paladins are the top Spot on my hate list

[tribal blade]

rets are up there for sure

with lolstorm

[acoustic matrix]

rets are actually not bad on bosses too

[shrewd lantern]

tiramil is based

[cloud rover]

ITs not about Performance

[final wasp]

Must be weird hating classes in relation to their damage in your dungeons

[keen dome]

Rets are key assassins.

[final wasp]

[cloud rover]

I hate Ret Players

[vagrant thorn]

describe a ret player

[keen dome]

Pink, but not cool.

[cloud rover]

Whiny, ungrateful and entitled

[shrewd lantern]

40 year old gamerdad who complains about the game used to be hard

male human in t2

[keen dome]

One of my regular key buddies is a Ret and he is so fucking good at the game, it's scary.

[tribal blade]

rets are a super simple dps spec that is simple because the complexity comes from being a secondary healer in the group with offheals and externals

but only 1% of rets actually use their non dps buttons

[shrewd lantern]

i mean its not a good look

when your shut down your class discord over week 1 hc logs

[shadow lance]

100% agree with that

[tribal blade]

the really good rets are incredibly valuable because they basically backup the healer

[final wasp]

@short radish for the record, Im getting forge in vault tomorrow, and then you wont ever be able to stop me. Ill be a demigod

[alpine wraith]

im getting prism tomorrow

[short radish]

[alpine wraith]

no one can stop me

[shadow lance]

Being a ret using his defensive on the party is the healer paradise

[short radish]

im also manifesting a forge on my feral druid in vault

[keen dome]

They're scary good except when they forget freedom goes on other players on the final boss of Ara, when the boss is 5%.

[alpine wraith]

goin straight from lfr to M

[short radish]

and a prism for my rogue

[cloud rover]

Got both Sunday

[tribal blade]

issue is most people just play ret because of how simple the dps rotation is haha

and it's very shiny

don't forget shiny

[final wasp]

714

[tribal blade]

monkey likey shiny things

[keen dome]

I'm getting Mythic antenna and nobody can stop me

[cloud rover]

I dont have crests

[shrewd lantern]

so frost dk

[shadow lance]

I played ret with a friend gearing a healer, he was complaining I was stealing his job ahaha

[shrewd lantern]

has he seen

good prot pals

[keen dome]

Love a good prot pal

[tribal blade]

yeah same thing with good prot pals

[shadow lance]

Same for prot pal

[tribal blade]

prot pals still my favorite tank to run with

[keen dome]

Same. Also play.

[tribal blade]

the good ones are CRAZY good

[keen dome]

The sheer amount of control you can have with shield silences is wild.

[shadow lance]

The utility level of that spec is insane

[keen dome]

And the blessings

[shrewd lantern]

you also wog more

on other people

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

i know they mega nerfed wog for prot pal last season, not sure if it's better now

the ppal i was playing with was complaining about it

[short radish]

yeah i've always had a paladin alt that i flex all roles

but now that i'm flexing a druid

and tanking as that

[keen dome]

The only thing I dislike about Prot this season is Lightsmith sucks

[short radish]

i see someones health drop

and im like

do not pres regrowth

[shrewd lantern]

fimbul wanted to stop buying melatonin

[short radish]

our health comrade

[shrewd lantern]

so he gared a bear

economically wise choice

[short radish]

i wanted to play a class that brought a raid buff that's wanted

[tribal blade]

are you talking about the thing that keeps almost killing me

tempered in battle

[keen dome]

I love DoTC Guardian, but Blizzard are cowards in renaming it from Massive Attack

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

you know i got a WA to announce whenever i'm tempered

so i know it's likely i could die

[short radish]

i see you have trauma from s2 still

[shrewd lantern]

warrior?

[tribal blade]

i had a ppal temper me going into pull after 1st boss of priory

and i legit hadn't left stealth

and was being chunked down

almost died

[short radish]

ahhhh but you see my problem is that i have a very small niche of specs i can play which is

melee energy based class that has combo points

so i'm limited to

rogue
ret pal
feral druid

well energy part not so much

but mainly the combo point thing

[tribal blade]

you should try WW

[shrewd lantern]

ret doesnt have energy

[tribal blade]

WW is fun

[short radish]

yeah but it has combo points

[keen dome]

WW is really good

[short radish]

WW didn't vibe

[keen dome]

Brew is also extremely cool but so buttony

[short radish]

it feels like combo points

[tribal blade]

damn

[short radish]

but it isnt combo points

[shrewd lantern]

monk has combo points

but better

they werent target locked

[tribal blade]

granted last time i seriously played WW was like legion lol

i can only play fast classes

can't play wheelchair

[shrewd lantern]

yk fim if you said

you wanted your mogs

i could see it more

[tribal blade]

i've tried multiple times to level a dk and give up every time

[short radish]

nah idc about mogs. my rogue has been running with the t1 set ever since it was introduced

[clever delta]

I love that we play elu on salamander, guild can't say i have less deaths on progg because I have cheat finally

[tribal blade]

same thing happened on nexus princess 😉

my guild was giving me grief that i would be perma floor pov without cheat

ended up being someone who didn't die often during prog

[short radish]

based

[tribal blade]

AND now everyone's forgotten about it

[shrewd lantern]

t1?

[tribal blade]

whenever they bring up cheat i have to bring up nexus princess

[shrewd lantern]

i cheat moare on farm than prog

ngl

[shrewd lantern]

yeah ewwie

boob shoulder

[tribal blade]

damn the OG set

[shrewd lantern]

didnt they remake that

but leaner

with the class boosts

[short radish]

no they remade t2

[tribal blade]

bloodfang yeah

[keen dome]

We slam them together and shout "ponder my orb"

[shrewd lantern]

i meant lightdrinker

[wispy crystal]

Is sub rogue one of the best melee classes for single target?

Anyone seen other specs outdps a sub rogue assuming similar skill and gear?

[short radish]

i think feral is one of the best melee ST specs

[shrewd lantern]

sub is worse than assa on just st

[short radish]

at least its burst is fucking bonkers

[wispy crystal]

Oh yes feral ST is quite nuts.

[wispy crystal]

Sub worse than assas on ST, really?

[short radish]

on pure ST

yes

[shrewd lantern]

yes

[wispy crystal]

As assas won't you be forever energy starved,

[shrewd lantern]

not as raid build

[lilac stag]

They did remake it. WoD garrison gamba

[clever delta]

Yeah already have higher uptime than tank on salamander

We killed hunters yesterday, I did not have single death on progg , but was already, commented that i have cheat 😄

[tribal blade]

people always talk about cheat yet nobody talks about how our health pool is lower

which actually makes a big difference

[shrewd lantern]

i mean we have no health passives

well outlaw has a minor one

[tribal blade]

having multiple millions more hp is not insignificant

(but yes rogue is tanky af too 😉

[turbid edge]

sub rogues are

[fossil forge]

tauren racial ffs

Ftw

[turbid edge]

if i get coup outside of dance, do i hold it then go into dance/symbols? is it coup > sectech prio?

[shrewd lantern]

i mean we're bad with ticking damage

[rustic mortar]

So when I'm in dance and i only get 5 CPs from SS do i Evi or do i SS again and then evi ?

[pine mirage]

how much dps loss is just macroing cb to st?

vs holding for 2nd st

[cursive vapor]

was it 1%? or lower?

[cloud rover]

Tbh, i often use cheat to notkill others, for example on Fyrakk i tanked more blazes because i know cheat would save me and me moving could lead to someone else dying

[tribal blade]

yeah you can play more reckless with cheat too

[cloud rover]

Ye

[keen dome]

Love me cheat death when it works

[tribal blade]

btw me and my guildies finally successfully did hardmode

and our shammy got boots with avoidance on them

he was PISSED

[keen dome]

Hell yeah. Was the dragon boss the worst of it?

[tribal blade]

nah sub rogue and ele boss died fast haha

[cloud rover]

I never finished a hardmode but i only need 2 items that need a catalyst chrage and that is Gloves and Legs

So i dont bother with it at all

[turbid edge]

i finished and got the haste/mast myth dagger 🙂

[tribal blade]

i got the haste/vers neck which is kinda useless

but free upgrade

[cloud rover]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

could send my 704 neck to 710 getting that

[keen dome]

There's no achievement for hardmode deathless so I just won't boooother until turbo boost maybe

[cloud rover]

For there is

a achievement

[keen dome]

What

Nooooo

Noooooooooo

I thought I was done!