subtlety

[swift tinsel]

ah misread, only 1

[devout jackal]

ty, a cetain rotation plugin was recomending it and I thought it was bugging out

[signal moth]

did i read right that in flag/shadowblades i should get 2 dance/2symbols and 2 ST off?

[edgy zenith]

yes

[signal moth]

how lol

[edgy zenith]

game

[signal moth]

my dance/symbols doesnt even run out ?

to use twice in blades window

maybe im reading my wa wrong lol

[edgy zenith]

i don't know what that means, but you press dance a second time when the first one runs out

[signal moth]

like my shadowblades ends

and i still have 3-4 seconds of dance

after using 2 STs

[edgy zenith]

yeah, that's normal

[signal moth]

oh ok

so its 2 uses but not like 2 full

[edgy zenith]

yes

you jsut want blades fully covered by dance

[young roost]

quick question lads if you are just kinda hanging around 13 level key range is it worth playing sub or better off sticking with assa bleed build

[signal moth]

yh sweet

[signal moth]

play what is fun

[edgy zenith]

play what you want

they're both fine

[signal moth]

in all honestly, i prefer sub for pugs

yes CDs need pulls but ST most people dont pull onto boss

bosses feel like they take 4 days

[honest grail]

Outlaw

[young roost]

ew

[signal moth]

boo

[wind dune]

this sub rotation sounds so simple but, feels so brutal. have played sin for years and just can't get the hang of it

[young roost]

just stick with it..its slows down a lot with time and is very rewarding to play

[signal moth]

i went from not knowing wtf i was even doing (to still not knowing what to do) but timing 13s in about.. an hour

so its not that difficult if you hardcore target dummy, read, record/compare... ask here

[wind dune]

trying to not macro anything and not using a rotation helper.

[signal moth]

practice the opener like 100 times

[wind dune]

haha! oh i am

i think i have nailed it like maybe 3x in 2 days lol

[honest grail]

I have to learn it last patch when outlaw was unplayable

Honestly it's not so bad to pick up

[wind dune]

so if you don't have the 20 sec prepull Symbols do you hold it and open with the shadowstrike?

[open coral]

can we cloak soak with the solo tank soak @ nexus-king?

[lament wyvern]

Question that I maybe should already know: Does Coup de Grace adhere by the 6 combo point rule? So should it be sent even with like 1 combo point, since it is effectively 6?

[swift tinsel]

can send with less bc it adds cps

ideally 6+

[lament wyvern]

Thanks!

[dusty totem]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lucid jackal]

The raid buff doesnt work on forgeweaver

since the damage on the encounter is sourced FROM pillars

[rigid delta]

I'm using Hekili (cringe i know but just for a bit of muscle memory as new to Sub) to learn a bit. It tells me to send a Coup de Grace with just 1 combo point sometimes. Is that wrong?

[young roost]

were you struggling to time 13s prior to swapping to sub?

[signal moth]

no idea.. i went from a +4 streets to a +13 streets lol

I just havent had time to play so its abit of an unfair comparison i guess as i just joined my mates

but i still went from not knowing my keybinds or what my finisher even was

i didnt know storm and bp was different for instance

to then doing these keys lol

[inner garnet]

Whats rule of thumb of either taking thistle tea or cold blood? I see different people running different scenarios. Is it based on dungeon or what?

[slate lantern]

tea = one less button, slightly better in aoe. CB is better prio/ST

[limpid sage]

^ but only if you have high crit

Sim both

[zealous hedge]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[inner garnet]

Is it taste that defines if you go The Rotten or Finality? Seems like sims either in aoe scenarios and ST sims recommend cold blood + finality.

[wind dune]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[rose burrow]

Could I get some help on how I couldve squeezed more damage here? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/APXHYvFahL6Z8q1m?fight=10&type=damage-done

[clever delta]

gamers

can i claok tornado

on salhadaar

[forest moss]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[swift tinsel]

It’s largely preference

[runic granite]

when do i BP instead of Evis?

[crude zodiac]

Guys, can someone please help me? I'm iLvL 709.8, but my dps is similar to people 4-5 ilvl more then me. I've watched rotation videos, read multiple guides WoWhead, IcyVeins, gone on Murlok.IO and mimicked similar stat values. Why is my DPS so low? I'm pretty positive i'm doing my rotation correct like 90% of the time. Heres a log to show.

[keen holly]

4+ with find weakness on

[swift tinsel]

Ignore FW, just 4+

[edgy zenith]

this is not a log

[keen holly]

and when to shuriken storm over shadow strike?

[edgy zenith]

in between your second coup usage

[swift tinsel]

Strike in dance, storm outside

[edgy zenith]

oh you mean in general, not the tech

what haptics said

[dusk stone]

We need an actual log, that doesnt provide much information

[crude zodiac]

awh gotcha, that makes sense.

hmmmm...

[keen holly]

and when im holding coup de grace and entering shadow dance do i evis twice and then use secret tech?

[swift tinsel]

Sectech first

Unless you can finesse it to coup->sectech->coup through shadowcraft

But even then probs not worth

So just Sectech first

[keen holly]

same in aoe situation?

[swift tinsel]

Yes Sectech first in aoe also

[keen holly]

so maybe sectech shurikenstorm evis shurikenstorm evis then shadowstrike be useful? or just shadowstriking before evis doesnt matter?

just shurikenstorm between coup de grace?

[swift tinsel]

Only storm once in dance

[dusk stone]

What usually happens i stuff is macrod that shouldnt be, gear could be wrong, rotation could be wrong ww cant know without a log

[marsh path]

Guys, having the forge trinket and the prism, how should I use them? Do I burst with the forge and then burst when the prism is stacked?

[keen holly]

okay great help thanks a lot

[dusk stone]

Not in keys imo

[idle sedge]

in large aoe m+ scenario am i mostly just shruken storming and black powdering / eviserating back and forth?

[hazy breach]

Rotate them on blades

[hazy breach]

No, shadowstrike in dance

[idle sedge]

ok

i feel like i got the ST down but my aoe is pretty weak

[swift tinsel]

You do pretty much the same thing just replace evisc with black powder

Then outside dance replace backstab with storm

Still use Sectech and coup as you would

[daring moss]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[candid raven]

Oh, that shit again. Same as with the trash boss last raid?

[restive venture]

!WA

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[signal vortex]

i learned to play sub some days ago, what I found out that I did that was wrong and my aoe was shit is, whenever you press shadowdance you have to shadowstrike, not shuriken storm even in aoe, so you build towards your coups, and use eviscerate in 4+ target just if it is coup, if not black powder

[split pond]

Hi guys, How are u doing? I have a question i just get the netherprims trinket and im not sure when i have to use it, someone can help me? 🙂

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[lucid jackal]

ya

[idle sedge]

nice ok i guess i should tab target spread as well

i didnt think about that

[dusk stone]

Usually people doing the opener wrong or not saving dances tends to be the issue.

[idle sedge]

how important is having 2 dances up for shadow blades

[dusk stone]

1.5 or 2 dances

And very

[hazy breach]

You should always cast 2 dances during blades

[last gate]

I SUCK WITH SUB IN DUNGEONS
AND I DONT KNOW WHY

[dusk stone]

No caps pls

[hazy breach]

Are you casting shuriken storms in dance

[toxic cedar]

whats the lore of shadowstriking on aoe while youre in shadow blades, figured shuriken storm would still be good to just apply FW would be better and you only shadowstrike if you have unseen blades to spend?

[hazy breach]

Your hero talents doesnt work if you dont strike

[dusk stone]

Strike cleaves and hits very hard

[hazy breach]

Like the entire hero talent tree revolves around using strikes and backstabs

[toxic cedar]

ye, u only strike if u have blades to spend or?

[hazy breach]

No

Practically only strike

[dusk stone]

^

[toxic cedar]

tbf, dont think my idea matters much anws cuz you still storm in between coup casts if you have UB stacks that arent spent so u still apply FW

[dusk stone]

Yeah that its part of why i reccomend the fw build because if your new you dont need to think about fw

[orchid rampart]

Is there a certain way to aim for sub? Like target count or dungeon slice or patch werk (mainly doing M+)

[dusk stone]

Wdym

[turbid edge]

Sim he meant

[dusk stone]

I dont really sim for sub except for gear

[wispy nebula]

hello. do yall put backstab with shadow dance?

im sure its asked like 50 times a day so sorry about that

[orchid rampart]

Yeah I meant Sim idk why it said aim lol

[upper narwhal]

Dungeonslice for m+

[toxic cedar]

also whats the lore of spreading rupture in aoe, i just play by vibes rn so i just apply them while packs are getting grouped, dont know if thats correct or nah (no shurikenado)

[hoary anvil]

you sometimes enter dance with full CP, in which case macro-ing dance+stab mae you lose full cp due to premed

[orchid rampart]

What target count do you typically put it to or does it really matter?

[turbid edge]

You don't do target counts for dslice

[wispy nebula]

so just pop it once when needed entering dance?

[turbid edge]

U just press run

[hoary anvil]

Dungeonslice sims override target counts

[dusk stone]

That rupture is boosted by all amps retroactively, it gets flag master + blades + everything else, spamming it while the gather is going on is correct

[toxic cedar]

huge, W playing by vibes

[dusk stone]

You just use top gear for sub afaik dslice doesnt matter

[turbid edge]

And full cp will prob just be dance symbols sectech stab bp in aoe right? And then just evisc in ST instead of bp?

[hoary anvil]

yes

[dusk stone]

It also depends how you macro stab to dance if its just hit every stab that would be very bad

[slate lantern]

What do you mean by this, dslice is a setting in top gear

[dusk stone]

Yeah i just always stab regardless then sectec

[dusk stone]

I misunderstood

Yeah thats fine

[young roost]

Ahh yeah I was wondering about this if we should be rupture spreading while tank is rounding up

[dusk stone]

I never think about it because its irrelevent for sub

[slate lantern]

I mean if the choice is between waiting for the mobs to all group doing nothing and spreading a few ruptures, I would spread

[dusk stone]

You can send an evis to get slice and dice going as well

[shrewd lantern]

cant you still build with storm outside dances in downtime

since bs damage is kind of a meme

[turbid edge]

When u enter dance with full cp u still stab?

[turbid edge]

Yes u do

[hazy breach]

Outside of dance you build with storm ye

[rigid pasture]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[rigid pasture]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[shrewd lantern]

Ok good pretty sure this was still the case

[dusk stone]

I dont think about it much. When i do i sectec first. Its kind of a thing where you have to understand priorities

If its super hectic dungeon pull where im gonna be top kicker i care less about optimizing procs

If its raid its really easy to watch your procs for the most part

But optimizing stab when the big cds are wrong which is what i see a lot of people doing, is not right either

[wind dune]

tapping out on this spec... i have beat on a target dummy for 2 days and still am just absolute fucking ass

[dusk stone]

Send a log

[wind dune]

lemme run another one. just cleared them out while throwing my tantrum lol

[shrewd lantern]

The real shame is they stealth removed the fazed parry hidden buff

for the group

[turbid edge]

I rly want to be as good at sub as sin, because I have 23% vers as sub

So much tankier

[dusk stone]

Sub cant have a raid buff y'know

It actually wasent even an awful one

If you have haste in gear from sin get rid of it

[shrewd lantern]

sounds like healer issue

[turbid edge]

What in the sub rotation in a big pull will do prio damage? Like with 10 mobs + pact speaker in eco? Aren't u primarily doing sectech and bp?

[dusk stone]

Evis, sectec, prism

With prism even bp trucks

[alpine wraith]

we dont do that much prio

still bp if pull is 10 targets

[dusk stone]

Do we not? Ive not seen figures on it exactly but we're not even up there?

[shrewd lantern]

not really

prio is cope

[alpine wraith]

assa and arcane do prio

[dusk stone]

You would think inside cds its a lot

[alpine wraith]

we can do more damage to 1 target but not enough

[turbid edge]

But u wouldn't evisc in 11 targets and prism isn't prio. So it's just sectech but that isn't much prio

[alpine wraith]

you will still do plenty with coups etc

no need to int and do evis

[turbid edge]

Yeah but does coup doesn't mean the pact speaker will die significantly faster

[dusk stone]

Inside of that 24 seconds were doimg like 10m though right?

[shrewd lantern]

people who say prio usually stuck in bfa rogue

[turbid edge]

Most of it is just burst pad

[honest void]

I always wonder but prio =/= funnel right?

[dusk stone]

Is arcane more?

[alpine wraith]

touch of the magi does more dmg than all the evis you can send

[turbid edge]

Arcane is the highest prio in game. Also aldrachi havoc

Then sin rogue prob in 3rd

[alpine wraith]

sin does a bit less now that spatter is bugged but still very good

[shrewd lantern]

Sin rogue might be higher than AR if caustic singular bug ever gets fixed

[alpine wraith]

sub rogue just does more damage to one target but nothing crazy

even feral does more prio

[shrewd lantern]

People stuck in era where shuriken combo existed

[turbid edge]

That's because feral has funnel

[honest void]

They do?

[dusk stone]

Ill look it up later

[shrewd lantern]

its pretty funny when i hear people talk about sub funnel

in 2025

[alpine wraith]

yes they have a cool combo where bleeds give free bites

[turbid edge]

Yeah pretty sure they do. I don't play feral but I've heard of it

[shrewd lantern]

90% of the time its someone who has max 5 hours on rogue

per patch

as alt

[alpine wraith]

or someome that plays assa or outlaw mainly

[honest void]

Fair, i thought their bite aoes anyway

But it may not be full bite dmg

[shrewd lantern]

i play whatever’s good

[turbid edge]

Well I guess in like 5 targets u can choose to funnel into prio by lowering your overall by pressing evisc. The big target will die faster

[shrewd lantern]

Sub was arguably my first spec playing in a decent wr guild

miss them dfa days

[honest void]

Define decent

[shrewd lantern]

like wr 200?

[turbid edge]

The shuriken tornado into evis in raid was godly

[last gate]

can you guys send me a good video?

for sub?

[shrewd lantern]

or whatever us 50ish was

[last gate]

i watched shindigg

[shrewd lantern]

idr

[last gate]

its kinda look old idk

[alpine wraith]

you can check mine

[honest void]

Oh yeah Hacha ofc

[turbid edge]

What level keys are u at now?

[honest void]

[alpine wraith]

i dont really do keys tbh

[karmic harbor]

Casualaddict YouTube

[turbid edge]

Oh

[alpine wraith]

think i did some 12s

last time i did high keys was in legion

[shrewd lantern]

doesnt casual just

[last gate]

Does he have a guide video? 😄

[shrewd lantern]

rip his twitch vods

and put on yt

[honest void]

Yes

[last gate]

i keep ruining my 13's

[alpine wraith]

that works for some

[last gate]

xd

[shrewd lantern]

Add some clickbait title

[last gate]

maybe its a bad idea to learn a spec in 13's

[alpine wraith]

13 should be quite easy with a decent group

[shrewd lantern]

ig too

[covert lava]

I'm back on my rogue but idk i have a huge feeling of input latencies with the spec compare to other classes

[honest void]

Nah i do it all the time

[alpine wraith]

i almost +2 a 12 with randoms

[karmic harbor]

I think so, if you type !subguide in his twitch chat there's a link, haven't watched it

[last gate]

Thats it thanks

[last gate]

WHAT THEY CAN DO? CRY? ITS MY OWN RESIL KEY 😄

[shrewd lantern]

i feel video guides are alot of work

for almost no payoff

[alpine wraith]

one weird thing is sub is quite a bit gear dependant

[shrewd lantern]

for the creator

[last gate]

HMMM MAYBE THATS WHY I DEAL NO DMG

[alpine wraith]

like you really want prism 4 set and good weps

[last gate]

xd

[honest void]

The have to vote to abandon anyway

[karmic harbor]

13s are df s1 7s

Don't sweat it

[last gate]

EXACTLY

xd

[cunning notch]

anyone else feeling super energy drained on sub suddenly ?

[alpine wraith]

not really you have energy when it matters

[karmic harbor]

Try working out more

[topaz venture]

only leading up to big cds

[shrewd lantern]

That will happen outside cds

[topaz venture]

which is fine

[last gate]

my main problem is on big packs

[honest void]

I feel like I'm disabled without prism ngl

Also I lost it to a guild fury

[cunning notch]

i feel like i can press 2 or 3 black powders in packs but

[last gate]

i dance symbol sectec and SS INTO BP

[honest void]

So that's cool

[last gate]

but i find my self dealing 7 mil

xd

[honest void]

Well

[cunning notch]

yall dont macro Dance + symbols right

[shrewd lantern]

i mean do you really care

about raw outside dance bp damage

[cunning notch]

unless ?

[honest void]

For one SS I to BP ain't it

[shrewd lantern]

it literally does nothing

[last gate]

ROGUE WET DREAM

[last gate]

e?

then what is it?

[rough herald]

!logs

[turbid edge]

I practiced sub in 12s. It didn't go too well. Timed it but my DPS sucked

[last gate]

i literaly ruined 3 keys xd

with 4.5 mil overall

[shrewd lantern]

ewww

[honest void]

Wait I read SS as shuriken storm

[turbid edge]

I did 5.5

[shrewd lantern]

no reshi boots

[honest void]

And not as shadowstrike

[last gate]

YEAH ITS SHURIKEN STORM

[honest void]

Oh then no

[last gate]

SHOULD I DO Shadowstrike in aoe too?

EVEN BIG ONES?

[honest void]

Yes

[signal moth]

can i immune parcel soak in mailroom boss in streets?

[last gate]

pff

[cunning notch]

what talents do u guys run in m+ ?

[alpine wraith]

wait that is very weird you might be nuking badly your cds

[turbid edge]

It's physical

[last gate]

so shadowstrike into BP?

[honest void]

But the pain is mental

[signal moth]

so no?

[honest void]

Only in cds

[turbid edge]

U can get a bop if u want from a pally

[sick matrix]

am i trippin or does black powder damage suck? feel like i just need to hit evis to maximize my dps in sub

[honest void]

Outside u can storm BP all u want

[shrewd lantern]

idk raid build with rotten and replicating

[dusk stone]

It was hilarious watching that in rtwf coverage

[honest void]

Definitely not

[hazy breach]

Are you pressing shuriken storm with bps

[honest void]

BP cranks so hard

[round grotto]

can someone tell me wheter this dmmg breakdown is valid or nah i have 4 set and im 707

this is in ecodome

[sick matrix]

yes

[honest void]

Unless ur a storm juicer

[hazy breach]

Ye thats the issue

[honest void]

And not a flawless form abuser

[hazy breach]

You should shadowstrike

[shrewd lantern]

i mean its still good to storm once right

[sick matrix]

wait

[shrewd lantern]

for fw with rotten

and danse

[hazy breach]

Inbetween coups yes

[shrewd lantern]

i figured

[honest void]

Rotten in this economy?

[shrewd lantern]

Idk tea is stinky

[round grotto]

do u always press coup or do u hold it sometimes depending on pull count ?

[sick matrix]

link me the build i just took the one from wowhead

[hazy breach]

Has nothing to do with talents

[honest void]

The build is press shadowstrike

[hazy breach]

(or well, its because of trickster, but deathstalker doesnt exist)

[honest void]

Instead of storm for cds

[shrewd lantern]

i could have sworn one storm was fine for rotten getting fw up

and a stack of danse

[sick matrix]

so use shadowstrike and not storm

[hazy breach]

Last tier ye

[honest void]

Yes cause u gain flawless form stacks

[hazy breach]

Now with tier strike too stronk

[honest void]

Which means bigger finisher dmg

[shrewd lantern]

oh

yeah sometimes i just did it

due to muscle memory

[sinful marten]

what spellqueue window do you guys play on

[sick matrix]

im about to download hekilli im over it lol

1 button rotation time its over for everyone

[hazy breach]

You can just do ST rotation except build with storm outside of dance

[shrewd lantern]

i assume bs is still troll

[honest void]

Sub unironically plays the same in all situations rotation wise

[hazy breach]

Its worse, but better than storming a bunch or the one-button rotation

[honest void]

At least in cds

[hazy breach]

You can BS once but it doesnt matter much

[sick matrix]

okay hold up so shadowstrike during cds and outside of cds storm?

[hazy breach]

Its mostly the unseen blades youre after anyway

[alpine wraith]

yea i prefer you just slam normal dances with strike evis and sec tech correctly

than bother with other things if you are messing up those

[shrewd lantern]

storm generates more cp than out of dance bs

also bs damage is piss

[keen moth]

can shadow blades and flagellation be macroed together??

[round grotto]

guys what's like the average or above average overall to be pushing keys and do you know wether there is like a website or something to verify if what i'm doing is correct ?
depending on the key i'm like at 7.50M to 7.60M but i feel like i keep barely timing keys

[alpine wraith]

no

[honest void]

You wouldn't want them to

[keen moth]

what CAN be macroed together

[hazy breach]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[keen moth]

why

[dusk stone]

No something else is very likely wrong

[shrewd lantern]

There are different scenarios

when you want to press things

so macros on sub usually increases your binds

lmao

[honest void]

Cause you use them in different parts of ur cd sequence to maximise ur dmg

[keen moth]

man i just wanna make dimensius not feel like shit

fix outlaw, blizz

[honest void]

Play sin then idk

Probs the most sleeper way to play him tbf

[shrewd lantern]

i mean sin is still very good on dimmy

but ye

[keen moth]

outlaw sure isn't

[shrewd lantern]

its a fight with downtime

[honest void]

Well the entire fight is like half downtime

[shrewd lantern]

when has that ever been good

for outlaw

[keen moth]

that's what i'm saying

[honest void]

Some fights are just not made for some specs

Been that way since the Stone Afes

[turbid edge]

When you get to the end of a pull, what is left alive in last 10 seconds of it?

[round grotto]

i'm not sure i understand what u said

i keep pressing coup whenever i get it no matter the pull count

but i'm wondering if that's correct

[shrewd lantern]

depends on other factors….

like when are your cds back

[honest void]

He means what is living longest

[signal moth]

why so?

[round grotto]

do u not want to press a naked coup ?

[shrewd lantern]

I mean it entirely depends on the scenario

[round grotto]

or like a coup with only dance up

[honest void]

Not if u have no unseen blade iirc

[dusk stone]

It depends on scenario yeah

[shrewd lantern]

If your cds aee back in like 10 and you naked coup

[honest void]

But tbh just slam that shit if nothing else is coming up

[shrewd lantern]

kind of inting

[round grotto]

i'm talking purely m+ where it procs a lot

[dusk stone]

I just send coup regardless most of the time unless its 20s before cds, or i do it there too and gamble for procs

[shrewd lantern]

like if theres 10s on a pack

and afk time before next

sure

[restive venture]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[shrewd lantern]

other times you can just be jorking it building sht

[round grotto]

ok so in a scenario with all buffs coup>bp

[shrewd lantern]

waiting on cds

well you want to coup twice

[turbid edge]

Every high key needs a prio class like havoc arcane or sin rogue to kill the big target. Are you frequently ending a pull where there's one big mob left at 20%? That's why your timers are tight

Or is your tank pulling 3-4 then 3-4 then 3-4?

Terrible for cds

[round grotto]

i guess it's others fault

xd

[dusk stone]

Sub has decent prio even with bp

[round grotto]

tanks keep usually chain pulling after the mobs are at 10% and then pull 1 mob when i got full cds

[dusk stone]

I am usually the only one on knight in priory 13

[round grotto]

especially in streets where they pull the mob that has the circle around it alone

[dusk stone]

It dies fine with just bp

[turbid edge]

Also how much dps is your healer doing? Should be 800k-1m+

[round grotto]

184K

[turbid edge]

Wtf? What is that? Oracle disc?

[round grotto]

yea shit's rough

[dusk stone]

Shaman prob

[shrewd lantern]

i feel shaman does more just talenting acid rain

do they not

[turbid edge]

My farseer sham does 900k DPS in 14s

[round grotto]

i used to play shaman in s1 i press more fire bolts than healing abilties

especially with totemic

[shrewd lantern]

some shamans dont spread flameshocks

to lob out free meatballs

[dusk stone]

Dont mean they will

[turbid edge]

I don't think u take acid raid anymore. Or healing rain

[honest void]

Healers generally forget they can do dmg a lot of the time

[dusk stone]

You can barely get shamans to cap totem tstorm

[round grotto]

is arakara timer tough this season ?

cuz it seems like it

[dusk stone]

Nah

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah idk how people play healer

without doing damage

shit is so boring

[dusk stone]

I 2 chested 13 last night

Its fine

[round grotto]

everyone was doing 7M overall in 12 ara and we barely was able to time

[dusk stone]

7m is low

[honest void]

It's all about the big pulls

[round grotto]

i see 7m overalls in 15's

[alpine wraith]

depends a lot on pull cadence ara kara is very techy

[dusk stone]

I had 7 after dying and scuffing my rotation bad at times

[alpine wraith]

doing 7m while killing the big scarabs and keep pulling on top of others

is diff then doing 7m overall while padding on first room then doing low dmg after

[dusk stone]

Yeah hach has it right, thats what we did

[round grotto]

they went right anyway so i knew we weren't gonna time that shit

[dusk stone]

The chain pulls are cancer but they work

[round grotto]

i should probably just go back to tanking

[alpine wraith]

oh going right rip

[dusk stone]

Do not go right

[round grotto]

el no sabe LOL

[alpine wraith]

you really want to go left because you can just snap almost all the casters with cds

[turbid edge]

Everyone goes left now

[round grotto]

who's gonna tell em pugs working with season 1 ptr knowledge

[shrewd lantern]

havent you always gone left in arakra

what the helly

[honest void]

No

Was right in s1

[shrewd lantern]

idk every pug ara i did went left

[round grotto]

i did when i was tanking always left even when people told me right was better i was like left we can do more dmmg and get moe %

[turbid edge]

I always went right in s1

[round grotto]

i had elite ball knowledge

back in s1

[shrewd lantern]

i went left when tanking

[honest void]

But that's also more out of preference iirc

[round grotto]

no one believed

[shrewd lantern]

anyone attacking on the gather just dies

idrc

[round grotto]

i always went left killed all and skipped patrol

[dusk stone]

Not me, i have tricks

[round grotto]

it was the smoothest shi ever

[shrewd lantern]

its always

some smoothbrain ret

[round grotto]

people that mount up and try to skip to just to end up stuck on the jumping parts and pulling the patrol

was the best feelin ever

[shrewd lantern]

anytime i hear “skip” in a pug

its just a countdown to disaster

[honest void]

I dislike ara-kara purely cause it sucks as melee

Also cause last boss range decide they don't see the small adds

[shrewd lantern]

i dislike arakara

[dusk stone]

Maybe there is another way to do ara but chainpulling all the way to 1st boss after 2nd split starts feels like a sin thing

You just need so much consistent damage

[round grotto]

what does sin mean

[honest void]

U just pull a lot with mini-bosses

[honest void]

Assassination

As in the spec

[round grotto]

yes

i tried assa for 1 key my brain couldn't process it and i just went back to sub

[dusk stone]

Its simple

[round grotto]

it has less buttons but it feels hectic to me

[dusk stone]

Play with 1 hand behind your back and you will get a 100

[round grotto]

a true extinguished zoldyck butler

[dusk stone]

I was getting 7 mil overalls in bad sin gear 2nd key in

[round grotto]

i might just need a couple more tried

if i can do sub i probably can do sin

[dusk stone]

It rly isnt hard, stealth ambush dot everything crimson tempest spam envenom and do cds

Cry when no funnel on boss

I was actually playing super bad around DN too

It is very forgiving

Sub is strictly better in keys without funnel on bosses though i feel

[round grotto]

u stop pressing the 2 blue swords when caustic splatter is up right ?

u start fanning

[dusk stone]

A third of your time doing awful damage isnt made up for in doing more aoe sometimes

Believe so

[rustic geyser]

you need to do a mutilate every so often to activate spatter

you can't JUST fan

[dusk stone]

Mutiliate for splatter and go envenom

[rustic geyser]

that will drop spatter

[dusk stone]

The trick to it is just playing rly slow

If you try hard it you run out of energy and get green parse

[rustic geyser]

in aoe you'll still be fully gcd locked as sin

tons of energy return

[round grotto]

that's my issue as a former fury player/prot and current sub player

i like high apm

[dusk stone]

Even with energy regen its just so slow

[round grotto]

so i end up spamming shit and wasting energy

[rustic geyser]

in aoe, if you're ever like not constantly capped on energy you're doing it wrong

[dusk stone]

Envenoming correctly for DN matters too

[rustic geyser]

envenoming is a spam button anywayh

[dusk stone]

With that its still too slow for me

[rustic geyser]

in aoe

?\

[dusk stone]

I had max energy from just chilling out

Yeah in keys

Raid is just mindless

[rustic geyser]

in aoe as sin, if you're NOT perma capped on energy then you're DEFINITELY doing it wrong

if you have 5 targets bleeding, you're just fucking energy jacked

[dusk stone]

Yeah i am not saying otherwise

[rustic geyser]

on single target yes, you'll be super low apm

[dusk stone]

With sub there's always like a million things to hit

Sin is less buttons

You plsy sub fast or you miss stuff

[rustic geyser]

yeah a lot less prereq buttons

[dusk stone]

For sin you slow down and do stuff right

In that way it is much slower at least for me

[short radish]

Press detection

[proper beacon]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[signal moth]

is my dagger meant to break in the middle of a boss even when i havent died?

wtf is this ass shit lol

[hallow night]

Yes

It's inspired by D2 daggers

You can macro jeeves into shadowblades to automate the mid-fight repair mechanic

[glad rampart]

darling hold my hand

finish the sentence

[ionic cargo]

Nothing beats a jet2 Holiday?

[rose kraken]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[warped gust]

struggling to learn sub can someone help me please

[opal basalt]

very open question

maybe you tell us what you're struggling with exactly

[warped gust]

never played it , trying to get my head around the rotation how to do high burst etc

just did a key ]

[rough herald]

for me, no matter the key level i end up at the same overall lol

[warped gust]

what overall ?>

[rough herald]

5 million

[warped gust]

i just did 5 mil and never played the spec D:

whats ur ilvl ?

[rough herald]

707

i'll make you feel better about your game play 100%

[warped gust]

u wont D:

[warped gust]

dmd u

[dusk stone]

Did you read the guide and are you doing the opener correctly?

[warped gust]

on wowhead ?

[opal basalt]

or icyveins yeah

[warped gust]

happily pay someone gold to teach me ^

[dusk stone]

Wowhead, method or IV yes

No need to worry about gold its free

Are you doing the opener right?

[warped gust]

im struggling to learn the spells also

would love a 1on1 coaching session with someone to help me

been assas for years

[gray bobcat]

Well there's your first problem, subtlety isn't a spellcaster

[warped gust]

so coming to sub is blowing my mind

[dusk stone]

I can later

[gray bobcat]

It doesn't cast spells it swings daggers

I hope this helps

[dusk stone]

Well slow down

Most problems with sub are simple

The complex shit is mostly small increases you sre likely doing the big simple things wrong

[gray bobcat]

If anything it's assassination that makes no fucking sense

[dusk stone]

Sub is essentially this

[gray bobcat]

Looked at that spec once either my brain low rolled or the abilities are written in hieroglyphics who knows

[warped gust]

i know assas

just not sub

[dusk stone]

1.) Do the opener and make sure it looks like the one on wowhead

2.) Spend 1-2 dances between opener

3.) Do opener again

4.) When comfortable layer on nuances

But yeah if you just yolo sub its gonna be really bad

[warped gust]

just need to learn iy

it

tried hekilli with it

any u boys use it with it ?

thought maybe it would help

[dusk stone]

No

It tells you to do a thing but your not going to do the thing fast enough and you dont know why youre doing it

[cunning notch]

that little backstab with symbols and dance always weirds me out

idk why

my brain tells me to press ShadowStrike

[dusk stone]

You use stab there because of pre med and danse macabre

Unless full cp then sectec

[winter ice]

How important is it to get the second sectech in the first tfd dance

[dusk stone]

You dont cb it and i dont rly optimize for 2nd cb in tfd its also rng if you get it

You cb the 3rd sectec (1st one in 2nd dance)

[warped gust]

do you guys u macros to pop abilities at same time ? like symbols cold blood etc ?

[shrewd lantern]

getting second sectech in tfd dance is rng

[dusk stone]

It depends

You can symbols dance together but you need seperate macros as well but during learning its fine

You can cb sectec but not sectec cb macro so its seperate keybinds for that too

It does make things much easier

[night sparrow]

PIN THIS ADMINS NO BALLS

[warped gust]

i just need to sit down on discord with someone and learn it

im free all day from 10 server time

[dusk stone]

You can dm me with questions if you want

[short radish]

this makes a lot more sense than me hearing "nothing beats a jet fuelled holiday"

[dusk stone]

Ill be home in 4 hours or so

[warped gust]

sweet

[signal moth]

see you soon

[short radish]

that's what you think

[brave harbor]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[winter ice]

Chat what does this mean

[signal moth]

in cds do i still bp in aoe? cause i swear it hits like a tiny noodle

[zealous hedge]

after 10 server time he is no longer free

[warped gust]

after 10:00 server time im free all day ^

[winter ice]

This is discord what is designated as server time

[zealous hedge]

before 10 server time he is free

[zealous hedge]

WoW's Servers / Realm time

you can see it by hovering the time under map

[winter ice]

did they sync all wow servers to have the same time?

[zealous hedge]

i think so but no idea tbh

[left flame]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[west socket]

when it's past 10 on your server time he is free

[dusk stone]

Its desyncd i think

[winter ice]

It definitely is cause i have mules on random servers for bmah

[warped gust]

2:22 am server here

[short radish]

10:22 am server here

[west socket]

🇪🇺

[zealous hedge]

im in the EST server IRL and its 8:24 pm for me

[dusk stone]

Definetely desync'd

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[slow gorge]

there is wa to track the stack of prism?

[manic salmon]

you can make one yourself

im sure there are some on wago

[signal moth]

is there some weirdo interaction with black powder just doing fucking nothing?

do i need to be in the mobs asshole?

[dusk stone]

No

Was this in cds or

[signal moth]

why some pulls (same dungon) i do 30m then some i do 10m lol

in cds

[dusk stone]

It sounds normal

You do 30 in big cds and 10 in small

[signal moth]

no im saying

exact same dungeon, same pull

same cds

one dungon ill do 30m

next dungon ill do 10m

[dusk stone]

Sometimes 30 mil cds do 10 or 15 in low target cap

[signal moth]

that is an insane difference

[dusk stone]

I do get the feeling sometimes shit just has more dr or something

[slow gorge]

Not the right order?

[slow gorge]

Dont know how but will check ty

[signal moth]

imma log my key

[slow gorge]

Maybe with buff too

[dusk stone]

Well in flood you can see 30 in on the first and you wont see that again until 3rd pull or something

What key was this

[manic salmon]

its tracked by the buffs in your buff tray. every buff will give you its "SpellID" when you hover over it

[signal moth]

we are doing 14 resil and first pull of the same dungeon it just straight up changes even if we do the exact same pull in the same comp lol

gambit

[manic salmon]

then what you can do is go into premade stuff in weakauras, choose an icon, make the aura trigger when the exact spell id has been found on your bars, and in display, make it show stacks (%s)

[dusk stone]

That isnt variance

Player variance or tank variance, the mobs also have to live a long time

You get 3 dances out of the key opener and if stuff dies too fast

You wont get that much. Havoc will get more.much damage earlier

Also you def see more than 10mil as well, that is low

[distant mist]

People, what to use in a possible mini burst in an add pack when Flag + Blades are on cooldown? And in that same pack, what shouldn't I overuse in the mini burst, because if I use all the Symbol + Dance, it won't come back together with Blade + Flag?

[dusk stone]

You dont use dance with 30s cd on flag

You dont use symbols under same circumstance unless significantly (like 1 extra charge) desyncd

Then you send symbol sectec

[split garden]

do u guys actually track slice and dice in ur WA?

[dusk stone]

Goal is 1.5 dances 1.7 symbols for flag minimum but aim for 2 without over capping

[hazy breach]

No

I do not track snd

[signal moth]

yh but its the same exact comp and players

[hazy breach]

Its always up anyway

[signal moth]

so it shouldnt really vary at all anyway

[distant mist]

yea thats what i want.. so symbol i want at least 1 charge for next pack>?

[dusk stone]

If a robot tanked the pull and robot dps'd the pull there would be no significant change unless insane crit or coup highroll

[split garden]

only played sub but i assume thats true for every rogue spec?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[signal moth]

thats fine but im saying 1 pull its 30m next dungeon is 10m lol

[dusk stone]

Read what i said, you dont send symbol unless its like an entire extra charge and then some. And even then send with sectec and even then its rly just for cdr

[dusk stone]

These were both gambit yes?

[copper tusk]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[signal moth]

yes

[dusk stone]

Human variance not sub

Ive only gotten less on that pull significantly when it dies super fast

[split garden]

for number 1, does that mean also not sending energy or should i still send backstabs if im capped on energy even if i dont get combo points?

[dusk stone]

Its really easy to lose uptime with circles though

[slow gorge]

Just take your details

Log

And see what is the dif between your 30 and 10

Cant tell for u

[dusk stone]

Wasnt mine

[slow gorge]

With 0 info

Tell ur friend to do that

[split garden]

do u think tracking danse is also over kill?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[split garden]

ive seen some people tracking deeper daggers too but idk if theres actually opti around tracking that or not bc i dont think its like a maintain as much uptime as u can angle on it

[hazy breach]

If you never base any of your decisionmaking around the buff

Theres no reason to see the buff

Is my thought process

[dusk stone]

^

[split garden]

yea i agree im just learning the class so my confidence in knowing all the important buffs isnt there yet

[shrewd lantern]

tracking deeper dags

what the helly

[split garden]

aye ive seen a good rogues UI tracking it and i was like hm is that important?

[shrewd lantern]

Why do i feel like the guy took a class wa pack

then never looks at that part

[slow gorge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Alacrity, deeper daggers, finality, the rotten, danse, snd and perforated veins are all insanely pointless to track.
I personally also dont show fw, flawless form or fazed except in the cases where its relevant (ie they show up if i dont have them up, and for fazed its exclusively if i dont have it up while i also have coup ready)

[split garden]

its vspeeds ui

[shrewd lantern]

ok?

[hazy breach]

A lot of good players have cooked UIs

[shrewd lantern]

could have taken a general wa pack

[split garden]

maybe idk i was just saying the ui

[dusk stone]

Prob luxthos

[warm marlin]

I perma track FW since it feels real bad to backstab as opener (with like 1s left on FW) to flag with 14 sht, not proc FW, and send 2x coup into the gutter

[hazy breach]

Fair

[split garden]

what would rotationally change in that situation ? @warm marlin ngl i might be doing this bc i dont look for it before i burst

[short radish]

perforated veins my beloved

[dusk stone]

I have FW on enemy nameplates

Fazed too

[short radish]

and yeah my feelcraft says not tracking FW is bad

[dusk stone]

U will track gloomblade and u will like it

[warm marlin]

Shadowstrike instead of backstab if you have enough sht that you would cast evis/coup before shadowstriking again

bit of a calculation sometimes

[hazy breach]

Might aswell just always cast that strike

[warm marlin]

It’s also weird with the shuriken storm thing because you might do bs sectec coup storm coup

[hazy breach]

In blades that is

[warm marlin]

So you’re going like 5 seconds without striking

[icy tinsel]

can someone help me understand why sims use blackpowder more than others on like 6/7 targets? guides say with flawless use eviserate, and sims are using blackpower

[hazy breach]

Guides say BP at 4 or more

And thats what the sim is doing

[turbid edge]

So a fazed icon pops up when your target doesn't have it and u have a coup?

[split garden]

and u just backstab the next generater for danse i assume

[turbid edge]

Where's it say use evisc on 7 targets?

[hazy breach]

Yes, but its also almost never relevant unless my main target dies

[warm marlin]

I don’t, don’t know if it is worth it or not

[hazy breach]

In which case i probably shouldnt have used coup anyway

[hazy breach]

Practically there should be very little difference between backstab > strike and strike > backstab

Besides the damage of the strike itself

Which is mostly negligible

[warm marlin]

I think there is an apl line for it right? In blades only

[lean arrow]

From my perspective it seems sub is easier then Sin cuz all the dots n such to keep up with lol

[hazy breach]

For the FW thing? i dont believe there was a difference

[lean arrow]

maybe im trippin idk

[warm marlin]

No for backstab in blades

[hazy breach]

Well ye but it does it as the first builder in all dances

[warm marlin]

maybe that’s for if dance falls off though

I was talking about this line: "!variable.stealth&buff.shadow_blades.up" but ya that wouldnt apply here

[hazy breach]

Ye thats mostly for when dance ends in aoe

[split garden]

is this in response to if im entering a burst window with FW falling off and these r my first 2 generators under cds?

[hazy breach]

Stab is worth more than the storm when blades is still up for 1 gcd

[signal moth]

Is ST damage instant? If I have 0.5 seconds of dance/symbols up and I hit ST does it do all its damage or do I just not risk that and refresh them before I hit ST?

[hazy breach]

Most of secret techniques damage happens after 1 second and 1.3 seconds, and no it does not snapshot the buffs you have at the moment you cast it

But its all based on the buffs you have when they land

[signal moth]

So in the opener in aoe. I find allot that symbols is gonna drop so I try sneak ST in but as long as I get both off in blades then I should just finisher.. refresh them, backstab then ST?

[hazy breach]

What

[cunning notch]

[signal moth]

I do the opener.. first symbols and dance and then when ST comes up the 2nd time sometimes it’s as dance/symbols is going to drop off. So I could get 2 in 1 symbols if I hit ST the last GCD before symbols falls off

No? 😂

[hazy breach]

Well you should always supercharge your sectech

So symbols should never drop

[signal moth]

So always symbols before ST?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[wind dune]

i seem to do this a lot....

[south sedge]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[wind dune]

OMG thanks!

[warm marlin]

looks to be essentially the exact same to skip the backstab if you dont have premed (in a position=front sim where the robot is actually shadowstriking first)

[dusk stone]

It is good to see this surge in sub rogues

[warm marlin]

i will not concern myself with it

[signal moth]

Are you just macro shadow dance and symbols together? Then also seperate symbols bind

[hazy breach]

Fair enough

[lucid jackal]

No macros

[dusk stone]

Yes thats fine @signal moth

[signal moth]

But the sims hit it at the exact same millisecond. I’m not about to do that lol

[warm marlin]

would be mildly hard to remember to backstab anyway if your window looks like strike sectec coup storm coup evis -> bs?

[signal moth]

It’s pretty easy

I thought same then I did it and it’s now just instant memory

[dusk stone]

My stealth and bar 1 are complete identical

[lean arch]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[dusk stone]

Except for human cc break which i need to fix

[short radish]

the more subrogues there are, the better my parse looks

[warm marlin]

ouch

[short radish]

my 50 parse on mythic loomi turned into a 80 parse by the end of the week

[dusk stone]

Look we gotta get those parses somehow

[signal moth]

Why not macro sd and symbols though? I’m always symbols after sd anyway and if I have a seperate symbols key bind for ST out of CDs it’s fine?

[lucid jackal]

I just use mouse buttons

[dusk stone]

You hit them seperately at times

[tame imp]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[signal moth]

So do I but you’re not hitting them faster than a macro lol

[hazy breach]

If you have a dance button and a symbols button you can add a third button with dance+symbols if you want

But i dont see why you would

[signal moth]

From what I can tell you hit symbols separate but not dance

[dusk stone]

Sometimes you jusy symbols sectec without dancr and your suppose to symbols and sectec dance or something in 2nd dance

[hazy breach]

And also it doesnt matter how fast you press them really

[signal moth]

So it’s instant together?

[swift tinsel]

as long as its all within one gcd

its whatever

[hazy breach]

What matters is how fast after you press dance you press your global

[signal moth]

I guess

[swift tinsel]

with whatever builder

[dusk stone]

Its less cogi overload

[swift tinsel]

idk about that

[warm marlin]

unless you're turbo proccing 4 coups in blades and sectecing your last gcd of tfd (so you need to insta cast dance) you have lots of leeway to not miss a global

[hazy breach]

More keybinds to remember

[dusk stone]

Less time doing that more time other things

[wind dune]

does this work for dance as well?

[dusk stone]

Nah i solve that with mouse

[hazy breach]

I mean its 0.6s

[swift tinsel]

instead of "I hit Q+3 I now hit __ instead in this one case"

[hazy breach]

Definitely not an insane amount

[swift tinsel]

when I always hit Q and always hit 3 for sod and dance respectively

seems odd to add a tertiary bind

[dusk stone]

Logitech proteus is giga intuitive, keybind become extension of your hand pmuch

[warm marlin]

i mean if you need to instachain dance so the sectec clones don't hit outside dance, and have 4 coups, its technically 0.2s no?

quite tight

[turbid edge]

Why would this be ok? Unless you have.... 3 key binds: dance with symbols, dance alone, and symbols alone

[dusk stone]

Its so good

[swift tinsel]

more than 2 mouse buttons is overkill imo

[signal moth]

You don’t need a 3rd bind. You have 2.

One for dance and symbols.
One for symbols.

[hazy breach]

What about when you want to dance and not symbols

[swift tinsel]

except sometimes in aoe

[lucid jackal]

I don't think the 0.1 second delay matters ever

[dusk stone]

You want to hit dance seperstely as well loop

[night sparrow]

I personnaly use dance+symbols macro and separated keybinds for both. My macro is on the same keybind as my stealth bar Backstab, so no cp = I double press / 7cp = press > sec tec > press

[lucid jackal]

And the macro just adds a keybind to your rotation

[dusk stone]

Its less common

[signal moth]

Which is…? Never? Or do we

[hazy breach]

Every single burst

[swift tinsel]

you do

[dusk stone]

Also we arent perfect as humans

[swift tinsel]

ye 2nd dance

always w/o symbols unless your cdr is real fucky in TfD

[dusk stone]

I used too many symbols and was gonna overcap dance

[signal moth]

Can you symbols when you’re in symbols?

[lean arch]

Is it always correct to tea on dance even if u overcap energy?

[swift tinsel]

yes

its not like dance

[signal moth]

Oh

[lucid jackal]

yes

[swift tinsel]

dance is the weird one you can't pandemic or spellqueue

[warm marlin]

you NEED to symbols within symbols to supercharge sectec properly

[lucid jackal]

No macro needed

[swift tinsel]

which is kinda nice bc you can't cut your duration short

[signal moth]

Ok I see the problem. Does the macro for not double proccing it not stop that?

[swift tinsel]

but if you have any kind of latency issues dance chaining feels poop

[hazy breach]

No

It prevents you from pressing it within 2 seconds of another

[signal moth]

I’ve noticed latency stuff and want to mess with spellqueue. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

[dusk stone]

You can actually pandemic symbols right

[swift tinsel]

yes

[hazy breach]

Yes

[wind dune]

am i even close? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DAxQzmRjC9hNPaZn?fight=last&type=casts&source=11&view=timeline

[swift tinsel]

probs something you have to look into with your specific ms

was under Custom Lag Tolernace at one point but haven't messed with it in years

[signal moth]

Sometimes I feel I’ve hit a key and it just doesn’t go off lol

[cyan shell]

do you always use finishers at 6+ cp?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[night sparrow]

yes except sec tec 7

[swift tinsel]

unless its second coup and you don't have enough and the buff is going to fall off

[signal moth]

What’s the DPS loss if you were to never supercharge before ST?

[turbid edge]

Every single 2nd dance is solo then u symbols before sectech

[cyan shell]

hm ok ty

[turbid edge]

It's rly rly big, especially for the 2nd sectech

[signal moth]

I think I’ve been messing up symbols on 2nd ST all night lol

[turbid edge]

Cuz 2nd sectech I think is giga buffed

[night sparrow]

isnt first coup worth to spend low cp outside of dances/symbols just for the CDR + avoid unseen blades waste ?

[turbid edge]

Espec cuz u hold cold blood for it

[warm marlin]

sectec is 6 too

[signal moth]

Not running cb

[stiff spear]

In the opener on Forgeweaver (so no cds only a dance and symbols) I'm sometimes not getting my fourth unseen blade proc for ages, delaying my first Coup for an uncomfortably long time.Am I doing something wrong or am I just unlucky?

[dusk stone]

A lot when you take same shortcuts with other stuff

[cyan shell]

same?

[dusk stone]

Exile got 60mil sectec dimensius

[signal moth]

Not taking shortcuts. Just shit

[cyan shell]

im confused about when to use symbols now lol

[hazy breach]

Just unlucky, the first 3 are guaranteed

When sectech has less than 10 seconds left

[turbid edge]

Right before sectech to avoid buffing the wrong finisher

[dusk stone]

You dont get 60mil sectec on dimensius without dumb amoumt of precision

[signal moth]

Why is the 2nd ST giga buffed lol?

[dusk stone]

Yes

Also 18 prism.and amp

[turbid edge]

I think read flagellation

[signal moth]

Not on pc

[hazy breach]

Flag is capped really quick

[signal moth]

Anyone share lol

[turbid edge]

Same

[warm marlin]

flag is more ramped, you will have many more stacks of flawless form from 2x coup

[hazy breach]

Its flawless form thats the relevant bit

[dusk stone]

That yeah

Flsg matters too but less

[signal moth]

What does that do?

[night sparrow]

?????? Did I miss something ?

[turbid edge]

Oh not the ramped flag? It's more dmg and like 60-80% mastery on top for 2nd sectech?

[swift tinsel]

3% finisher damage per stack

granted by Unseen Blade, Sectech and Coup

[pine mirage]

Can I dslice for sub?

[turbid edge]

Yeah

[dusk stone]

Flawless form you get from strike, stab gives stacking 3% buff. Coup gives 5 of it per use, with 4p you get that twice, with luck you can get that twice

[warm marlin]

its already at 18/30 stacks by the time you press your first sectec

[dusk stone]

So it becomes 60% in some cases within 4gcds or something

Absolute madness

[turbid edge]

What's the part after for 12 seconds?

[hazy breach]

I mean sure flag is at like 20 stacks instead of 30, but thats like 5-10% more damage, whereas you'll have like 10-15 more flawless form stacks

And thats like 30-45%

[swift tinsel]

the duration is like ironfur

[lucid jackal]

stacks but not extends

[warm marlin]

i think the final clone hit would technically also benefit from the extra cps spent if you opened with sectec evis so would be like 28/30 stacks

[hazy breach]

Ye

[cyan shell]

ok 🤯 thanks

[warm marlin]

but not sure how fast the buff dynamically updates

[hazy breach]

Its fast enough

Very noticeable when you look at log where somebody goes sectech > coup

Second clone does way more

[turbid edge]

How do you monitor shadow craft stuff and play around it? Or with normal play, does it not matter to watch?

[signal moth]

Patchwork sims with 10 mobs always do 4 ruptures. Is it that important beyond just having it on opener?

[dusk stone]

Idk if patchwerk has them grouped though

[signal moth]

I’m not spreading my ruptures tbf

[hazy breach]

!rupture

[wicked jolt]

When to apply rupture:
With Replicating Shadows specced Rupture is used on all enemies that will survive for ~12 seconds but not during Shadow Dance.
Without Replicating Shadows specced you only really keep it up on your main target.

[dusk stone]

Point of rupture is to not waste cds while tank gathers as much as it is to fluff off of cds itself

[signal moth]

Is the m+ fuu build using replicating shadows lol

[lucid jackal]

It 100% matters to watch

[hazy breach]

Theoretically you can just rawdog it and react to the procs

[dusk stone]

Its just a weak aura

[hazy breach]

But why do that when you can know in advance when they will happen

[swift tinsel]

^

[dusk stone]

You want to know going into cds though

[swift tinsel]

even just knowing when you have >= 7

[lucid jackal]

I mean with coup giving delayed refunds u just need to track stacks

[dusk stone]

Coup thing do be rough ye

[lucid jackal]

Seeing I have 5 stacks in coup so I can prepare for the refund is very valuable

[dusk stone]

Sht only refunds after 7 or

[warm marlin]

use that 0.3s outlaw reaction time and just react noob

[dusk stone]

Its actually ok in st

[short radish]

oh is this why i sometimes burst 11mill and other times 8mill

[swift tinsel]

AceRefund.mp3

the coup gcd aura stealthi whipped up is very nice for gaming the refunds on it though