it didnt even
#subtlety
tribal blade
it was OP on 1 boss
left ledge
1 fight
shrewd lantern
Oh im aware but zul was what made it really apparent
in legion you could do worse
tribal blade
wasn't an issue at all until then
shrewd lantern
but only niche teams used it
left ledge
1 fight completely fucked sub for that whole expansion
shrewd lantern
like you could abuse combo in legion keys
tribal blade
like look at 4 arcane mages on m saladbar
shrewd lantern
pulling mobs to bosses
tribal blade
3 eles on m dimentius
tribal blade
but they won't get massive reworks over thta
shrewd lantern
bro i used to do wild shit on the snake woman
tepid trellis
like look at 4 arcane mages on m saladbar
fwiw max admitted to them fcking up by no bringing more rogues on last two
shrewd lantern
then want to alt f4 when my tank moved boss into green
tepid trellis
not*
shrewd lantern
as my dfa was landing
left ledge
yeah 1 rogue is troll on last 2
tribal blade
fwiw max admitted to them fcking up by no bringing more rogues on last two
oh snap
left ledge
imagine having a sub rogue for each platform on nexus king
i told my guild run 2 rogue but nobody playing rogue
clever delta
rogue death class almost no one have two now
tribal blade
yeah exile top dps on dimensius kill 🙂
lucid jackal
Double rogue very good this tier
shrewd lantern
ngl its kind of most teams i see only have one
shrewd lantern
btw does anyone else just
when one of the ranged does a knock on araz
as your sectec is going off
alpine wraith
you need to wait until they get knocked and come back
otherwise they have a 99% dr too
shrewd lantern
on which set
alpine wraith
it is a bit diff in M
alpine wraith
oh why would you knock in hc
tepid trellis
they do
alpine wraith
they always have until they touch the singularity
tribal blade
btw what do you cloak on fractilus?
i think on RWF they were cloaking double stacking
tepid trellis
all small adds have a shield
tribal blade
during the big spreads
tepid trellis
doesent get removed unless they go into the void zone
well you can sectech just as they spawn
take 1 sec for sectech to do any real dmg
and the knock will be done by then
lucid jackal
ngl its kind of most teams i see only have one
I mean even the race ppl didn't have 2 rogues ready
Unpopular class, nobody really expected it to be as strong as it is
tepid trellis
well daizr had a rogue rdy
lucid jackal
not sub
dusk stone
To be fair
lucid jackal
tru
tepid trellis
the dmg amps
are not
whats making sub good -.-
like it helps
sure
but its the burst cleave
where sub goes completely nuts
silver igloo
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
dusk stone
Its just that this channel had doubts too and we were dooming even with positive facets not all but still
tepid trellis
do we dig up the outlaw copium from DF and before?
u sure on that my enternity lad
mr*
lucid jackal
Was the best spec in vault 
tepid trellis
wispy crystal
If there are 3 targets and shadow dance is on cooldown, do we backstab to build combo points or shuriken storm ?
tepid trellis
storm
safe fog
storm on 2 no?
wispy crystal
Oh so No Dance
2 target = backstab
3 target = storm
I realized my single target can finally be top DPS in m+ now after switching to sub
However my AOE still behind other classes
wispy crystal
before hero talents it was storm at 2+
Sorry I'm confused. What do you mean?
safe fog
so we value the pitiful backstab damage more than bonus combo points from storm?
shrewd lantern
i feel you still storm at 2 outside dance
somehow doubt nimbling bs damage matters
on 2t
tribal blade
2 is still backstab soup
yeah i think it's worth because proccing UB
safe fog
feels like storming on 2 helps squeezing out another dance
safe fog
eventually
lapis dune
jk not a fan of people who dont get title each szn lol
safe fog
UB, can we track when its up anyway
dusk stone
Dont think your aoe should be much behind other classes if at all
But im only doing 13s so
lethal lark
Do we just use the cleave build Soulbinder, Forgeweaver and the Soul Hunters?
alpine wraith
no idea what cleave build you are talking about but change pe and imp sht for replicating and finality
light rune
Why do you use Shuriken Storm between the Coups
alpine wraith
for forge the normal raid one should work and soulbinder too
safe fog
to not use up unseen blade when youre at 4 stacks
alpine wraith
i would change for dimensius/salad/soul hunters
silk sparrow
Learning Sub rogue and was wondering, do we ever send Secret Technique outside of shadow blades/flagellation? Or is it always Eviscerate when 1.5min CDs are on CD?
safe fog
yeah
actually you have to do that
usually you have 2 symbols/dance rotations between blades then one in between next set
tepid trellis
sectech once per shadow dance used
silk sparrow
Gotchya thank you! Wanted to make sure since I noticed it comes off CD quick when spending combo points.
safe fog
just send that shit unless you wont have it ready for blades
ripe smelt
how do i get the free combo point recharge from using black powder? what talent does it?
tepid trellis
shadowcraft
signal moth
what are people doing dps wise on the 5 target dummie in dorna in m+ build? Because i know im doing something wrong as mine is giga low lol
dusk stone
I dont use the dummy to measure, sub is just about doing stuff correctly
If youre not variance is kinda pointless
signal moth
yh but its hitting like 10m
whereas sin is hitting 14-15m
isnt sub meant to do more lol
ripe smelt
idk how leveled u are but make sure u keeping find weakness up during rotation too
signal moth
704
im just following the rotation on wowhead
no idea what find the weakness even is
oh then the rotation keeps this up
dusk stone
No idea
Could be no 4p dances could be wrong, using wrong macros many things
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
dusk stone
Send a log if you want analysis
lapis gull
Can i send the log here?
signal moth
Send a log if you want analysis
is it always dance/symbol or can it be symbol/dance? Also the backstab after those 2 before blades, can it be ambush or does that not matter?
Also any macros to stop be double hittins dance and symbols lol
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
hazy breach
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
hazy breach
You cant double hit dance, as you cannot press dance while dance is up
signal moth
ok here for instance
lol deletd it but i have a backstab/shadowdane on the same key
does it matter ?
with symbols, shadow dance it then says backstab
but it shadowstab (whatever the stealth one is) woudl that matter?
safe fog
its fine but you need separate keybinds aswell
signal moth
why?
signal moth
how come?
hazy breach
because you want to supercharge secret technique
safe fog
symbols is 10s dance is 6 without tfd
hazy breach
8
signal moth
that is annoying
safe fog
8*
safe fog
you also want to use them separetly sometimes
if youre constantly aoeing you will run out of symbol charges
lapis gull
I have some idea of what im doing wrong like missing Shadowcraft refunds, or miss timing dances/sod
signal moth
ok im checking this against the rotation etc but not actually sure how to get WCL from target dummies?
obv some GCD delay as i am learning the keybinds/rotation lol
safe fog
you missed second dance
should aim to always get 2 set of dance symbols inside shadowblades
dusk stone
Had trouble loading it
safe fog
also dont storm during dance unless youre holding UB
signal moth
you missed second dance
yh i noticed this, have no idea why i hit the key lol
signal moth
also dont storm during dance unless youre holding UB
what is UB?
safe fog
unseen blade
signal moth
the rotation seems to storm, allot
safe fog
stacks for coup the grace
signal moth
ok, i dont even know how to see this stuff lol
dusk stone
Video buffers really slow
dusk stone
Our burst rotation doesnt really storm, no
You apply find weakness mobs via storm once in your 2nd dance after sectec if youre running the talent for it and then also only once between coups
signal moth
so with this, I understand the first 6 bits.. fairly easily, the bit after that is confusing me.. so in symbols/dance I would ambush, mutalite (or.. i guess shadowstab them and evis) only?
then when dance/symbols runs out, i run it back?
then when all on CD i would then storm?
safe fog
You apply find weakness mobs via storm once in your 2nd dance after sectec if yo...
if youre at 4 coup stacks after sectec storming twice before each is right
i mean once before each
twice total
could potentially highroll triple coup in blades like that
dusk stone
Find weakness runs out in 2nd dance
safe fog
find weakness is applied by shadowtrike
dusk stone
On most of the mobs
safe fog
unless you have more than 8 targets
dusk stone
Nimble doesnt apply fw
hollow oxide
Nimble doesnt apply fw
What is fw?
dusk stone
The once in 2nd storm is because they already have it on them for the gather and isnt gonna time out until after tfd opener is done
Even then ppl are saying finalitt is better than the rotten
dusk stone
What is fw?
Find weakness
signal moth
so more like this?
dusk stone
Bypasses 30% armor for phys and makes evis/bp do 30% more with shadowed finishers
hollow oxide
Find weakness
Tyty
dusk stone
Loop, i cant get that clip to not buffer
safe fog
so more like this?
since you were already at 4 stacks doing sectec shuriken storm instead of shadowstrike would be better
signal moth
since you were already at 4 stacks doing sectec shuriken storm instead of shadow...
yh i dont know what that means
dusk stone
Says 36 minutes no idea why
dusk stone
Basically unseen blade has a proc CD and using strike triggers it, you dont want to waste the proc, storm has no interaction, therefore there is no waste
safe fog
instead think about about them as ways to proc other effects and generate cp
dusk stone
Stab does too
swift tinsel
I mean you do use strike for damage
signal moth
Basically unseen blade has a proc CD and using strike triggers it, you dont want...
do i care about this if i have played sub for about 15 seconds?
like i get the min/max stuff but i really just want a somewhat go into do 12-14s without trolling
hollow oxide
Sub sounds like an ass spec ngl.
dusk stone
The simple answer is to use a storm between coups
signal moth
no ass is assassination
signal moth
The simple answer is to use a storm between coups
yh i dont even notice a coup though at the moment let alone to adjust to it lol
I havent played sub since DF season 1
safe fog
ay same for me
swift tinsel
yea you're gonna wanna do that
safe fog
picked it up week ago
swift tinsel
the whole noticing coup thing
dusk stone
You want to coup after secret technique
swift tinsel
bc its important
wicked joltBOT
safe fog
you literally have it in 2 spots on your screen
dusk stone
Was he using bp in that clip?
signal moth
ohh i see the coup proc
safe fog
no
signal moth
no im using the macro so its 1 key
swift tinsel
the thing in the buff row with 4 stacks
signal moth
ok and if thats up i do what? use a storm?
swift tinsel
and the pixel glow proc aura on the left
safe fog
yeh, you wanna do bp on 5 targets unless coup is up
signal moth
bp?
swift tinsel
black powder
dusk stone
Do we have a note in the pins for the acronyms
signal moth
i tried it looked like evis uses the proc of coup?
dusk stone
I feel like we should have that
safe fog
theres and argument for eviscerating for prio damage but if you have 5 equal targets bp is the way
dusk stone
You always use coup
signal moth
how do i make sure coup at 4 is used on ST though?
dusk stone
Because you always coup after secret technique
dusk stone
And you generally always try and use coup its high priority
safe fog
maybe bp if youre spending at 4 shortly before cds
dusk stone
Coup is much stronger evis and gives 15% damage amp if target is fazed
signal moth
coup is this
swift tinsel
Okay so
signal moth
opal birch
coup is trickster hero talent
swift tinsel
when you strike or backstab you have a chance to hit with Unseen Blade
Unseen Blade grants a stacking buff
at 4 stacks, Eviscerate becomes Coup de Grace
signal moth
it turns into this?
swift tinsel
yes
signal moth
now what do i do?
swift tinsel
cast it if secret technique is on cooldown
signal moth
ok
swift tinsel
you'll then get a buff
signal moth
and if it isnt?
swift tinsel
if you hvae 4p
opal birch
also do you have 4 set cuz ur gonna get more coup
swift tinsel
that allows a 2nd coup to be cast within 5 seconds
runic hull
Hello, in regards to the aoe rotation, whats the optimal number of ruptures that should be up?
swift tinsel
if you have shadow blades up, use storm to generate combo points to spend that 2nd coup
signal moth
like this? in theory (the first bit to get to ST, that is a consume of coup?
i was at 4, i used bp to get to st
if i used stab then it would just use coup right?
or do i stab to get coup then ST?
safe fog
Hello, in regards to the aoe rotation, whats the optimal number of ruptures that...
however many you can get up between cds
opal birch
stab is for unseen blade,
not coup
runic hull
however many you can get up between cds
so rupture high priority then or just off cds as a focus?
safe fog
assuming targets will survive its duration
signal moth
stab is for unseen blade,
not coup
safe fog
off cds
dusk stone
Hello, in regards to the aoe rotation, whats the optimal number of ruptures that...
Two cases, you spread as many as possible while tank is gathering and then also spread rupture after your cds are done, it does big dam
opal birch
loop read the trickster hero talents and see if it makes more sense lol
runic hull
Two cases, you spread as many as possible while tank is gathering and then also ...
thx very useful tip
swift tinsel
stab is for unseen blade which enables coup at 4 stacks
signal moth
loop read the trickster hero talents and see if it makes more sense lol
i have it makes absolutely fucking zero sense
swift tinsel
!guide
swift tinsel
nah fdk
signal moth
fuck death knight
safe fog
sub is chill tbh
hollow oxide
@signal moth
dusk stone
Chilling is for ret paladins
hazy breach
Just like outlaw only spams blade flurry right
hollow oxide
That's specism
safe fog
it wasnt that much diferent in df, you still spred ruptures and hit the same buttons just aoe was different since you storm/bp in cds
hollow oxide
well i also played like 100 hours a day in DF season 1
hazy breach
!guide this one?
safe fog
100 hours a day, man is going bald at 20
sand monolith
Not that one
dusk stone
The most unrealistic part of that picture is that the room was that clean
hazy breach
Links to what
sand monolith
The one that's like shows at which point the new tier set is better than the old one
hazy breach
Always
sand monolith
ah
signal moth
sub feels really good tbh but just need to figure out why it does stuff
will study and come back a better padawan
sand monolith
so current 2s> season two's 4s
safe fog
The most unrealistic part of that picture is that the room was that clean
that picture was actually a recreation of a real room of one of blizzard employee
hollow oxide
will study and come back a better padawan
signal moth
that picture was actually a recreation of a real room of one of blizzard employe...
it was piratesoftwares dad, did you know piratesoftware worked at blizzard?
hazy breach
yes current 2p is better than old 2+4p combined
hollow oxide
it was piratesoftwares dad, did you know piratesoftware worked at blizzard?
Tell me about it.
dusk stone
Room still too clean
sand monolith
tyty
safe fog
behind the scenes footage of rwf
hollow oxide
Lol
signal moth
https://tenor.com/view/eric-cartman-poop-funny-gif-6909597670306927651
honestly still my fav south park episode
that and the guitar hero one
which one does he freeze himself to get the pc/ps5 or something?
that one is also good
wakes up in the future lol
compact cobalt
which one does he freeze himself to get the pc/ps5 or something?
he freezes himself so he can go forward in time to get the nintendo wii lol
but he goes like 1000 years into the future
there's like a war between otters and humans over the proper naming of a religion
signal moth
he freezes himself so he can go forward in time to get the nintendo wii lol
haha yeah forgot what console it was !
miss peak SP lol
brave harbor
Hello, do we only use coup during shadow dance in aoe?
ember lintel
If you shuriken storm and don't get enough combo points for the second coup do you shuriken storm again?
brave harbor
If you shuriken storm and don't get enough combo points for the second coup do y...
probably because whole point of shadow strike is to get stacks
turbid edge
Hello, do we only use coup during shadow dance in aoe?
I think always as high priority because it gives flawless stacks
dusk stone
If you shuriken storm and don't get enough combo points for the second coup do y...
You can mabne get away with 2 but send at 1 is even fine because it gives +5 naturally. Coup proc has 5 seconds to be used up
random hare
probably because whole point of shadow strike is to get stacks
It flurries too btw
dusk stone
Hello, do we only use coup during shadow dance in aoe?
No i misread, you always use coup
hazy breach
Ye if you proc the 2p the damage from strike+2x unseen blade is similar to BP
ember lintel
aight thanks all
hazy breach
It is, flurry is physical so FW makes it 10% stronger
brave harbor
No i misread, you always use coup
Sometimes I get the 4th stack at the last global of dance. Do I just wait for the next dance
hazy breach
The rotten works
But the crit amp from lethality and whatever the +crit damage one in trickster is called
dusk stone
Sometimes I get the 4th stack at the last global of dance. Do I just wait for th...
At the last global of the second dance or 3rd dance?
brave harbor
No i misread, you always use coup
Ah okay whenever it's available then
random hare
what the helly surely it was fixed i remember one of those 2 not working last season
hazy breach
The crit amps makes a strike cleave 35% less than it should
So it looks like its the rotten, because the numbers line up
random hare
I see
brave harbor
At the last global of the second dance or 3rd dance?
Not in opener so I can't really tell which dance
hazy breach
(and the rotten always makes it crit right)
random hare
Wait so thats why tea builds somewhat started to shine
I still hate tea tho
Fk tea
dusk stone
If you have dances available send it after nearest sectec i guess
brave harbor
Sometimes 8th dance because tank chain pulls
dusk stone
What is your question about precisely
brave harbor
I asked what do I with coup outside dance and no cds in aoe
safe fog
Sometimes I get the 4th stack at the last global of dance. Do I just wait for th...
if youre going to be holding for 30sec coz of shadowblades coming up id just send it as long as target is fazed
dusk stone
I asked what do I with coup outside dance and no cds in aoe
Try and save it for a dance yeah, but ive sent it without a dance at times too
hazy breach
Wait so thats why tea builds somewhat started to shine
You often end up delaying cds a bit in keys anyway (because you cant send on a pack with 20% left) so you can often get away with using CB inbetween blades too
Im also leaning more towards CB but its undoubtedly easier to fit in feints specced into tea+vigor
safe fog
tea is goated for QOL
dusk stone
And you dont run out of energy at end of cds
was doing fg the other day sending flag like normal and i could physically press shadowstrike but not finisher because no energy
Tea makes that not a thing
safe fog
was doing fg the other day sending flag like normal and i could physically press...
ive been thinking about it and it does indeed happen in m+ talents with cb
not a thing with raid build due to improved shadow techniques and also doesnt happen with tea
dusk stone
I can never tell and it feels like it is sometimes
coarse island
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
split garden
how much dps is the 2pc+4pc in m+? like % wise
dusk stone
28.5%
hazy breach
!tier
wicked joltBOT
Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.
coarse island
!wa
wicked joltBOT
safe fog
going from no set to 4p is tank damage to pretty good level of diff
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac pendant
When I sim my 2-tier agaisnt 4 tier last season 658 i get less value. Is true? I find it hard to believe
safe fog
2 set by itself is meh
dusk stone
2p + 2p is best until 4p new set
safe fog
2set bonus in 4p really does shine though
paper surge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac pendant
Well i will sim again tomorrow or just equip and delete old so i dont get remoses
Ty
paper surge
In m+ with big CDs running on big pulls, past 8 targets should I just evis and cdg instead of bp or is bp still worth it?
Prolly a dumb question lmao
paper surge
Word
safe fog
evis cant hit more than 8 targets at all
acoustic matrix
Hey guys, is tornado worth it in M+ or is Casual just more geared/skilled ?
safe fog
tornado on big aoe is good
safe fog
tornado requires more setup tho
acoustic matrix
Guide says Use Shuriken Tornado as a filler outside of cooldowns.
which is kinda vague
how do you set it up ?
safe fog
for once i would use it on dance when i already have coup ready
to get more finishers in
left ledge
anyone know what this even means
wasnt this already the case
ive gotten circle + adds even on prog
acoustic matrix
for once i would use it on dance when i already have coup ready
So basically use it on the death/symbols right after shadow blades drops ?
safe fog
you could also use it outside of cds to get big cd refund on your sectec and dance
i just wouldnt use it on dance if i have to strike for coup stacks anyway
acoustic matrix
I'll just stick to the guide and send it out of cd to get feel for it
Might need to ask fuu for more optimization
actions.build+=/shuriken_tornado,if=buff.lingering_darkness.up|talent.deathstalkers_mark&cooldown.shadow_blades.remains>=32&variable.targets>=3|talent.unseen_blade&(!variable.stealth|variable.targets>=3)&(buff.symbols_of_death.up|!raid_event.adds.up)
APL seems to use it with symbols
dreamy root
I'll just stick to the guide and send it out of cd to get feel for it
if u watch a vod from one of the high key gamers u can see when/how they are using it, i found that helpful
ripe smelt
do you always use coup de grace procs no matter the situation? even inside of a shadow dance in aoe?
acoustic matrix
do you always use coup de grace procs no matter the situation? even inside of a ...
yes
safe fog
coup does great dam in aoe
acoustic matrix
only time you hold it is when shadow blades comes up in 20 sec
safe fog
also gives flawless form to boost your damage after it
paper surge
if i were using netherprisim and cursed stone idol, what would be the appropriate usage order with cds and such?
safe fog
could alternate them
starting with idol
but using idol as 3min cd doesnt seem efficient
dusk stone
only time you hold it is when shadow blades comes up in 20 sec
Its honestly more like 10
safe fog
Its honestly more like 10
its 20 so youre guarenteed to get ub before cds
swift tinsel
thousand cuts resets
dusk stone
If youre holding coup you dont get ub
safe fog
yeah but you have it stacked
and going into cds with 0 coup stacks can lead into some very unlucky burst phases
sending with 10s to blades is gambling on reset
dusk stone
I need to see how many stacks of ub you have within that 20 seconds
You should just need 1 more to get coup again
swift tinsel
can be 1 or 4
safe fog
going into blades with 1 stack youre not guarenteed to get second coup on second dance
swift tinsel
you just don't get the stacks from ub hits
dusk stone
I wonder what the math is though
swift tinsel
its probs 20 seconds, Eleem doesn't pull numbers out of his ass
dusk stone
You could very well hit 2ub on 19 seconds and then 2 more on 1s until flag
I see
Wasnt aware eleem said it
swift tinsel
well its a flat 35% chance to double hit, no insurance
dusk stone
Thought he was saying 10 still?
swift tinsel
if you're talking about finishers in general its 10, but coup is ~20
because you want to farm sht stacks
bc they're bigly in flag
and reduce the chance you need to storm between coups so you can machine gun
better chance to sectech->coup->coup
so you waste no disorienting either
dusk stone
Well youre holding coup for 20s, that must mean if you were to send it, it would be a low chance to get it back inside 20sec
swift tinsel
well you can either get 1 ub in that time
or 4
through 2pc chance and thousand cuts
the combination of rng is not nice
bc for every backstab, it rolls to see if it ub's, then rolls to see if it doube stacks
dusk stone
Doesnt snd also have chance to refresh
swift tinsel
yes that's thousand cuts
dusk stone
Oh i see
acoustic matrix
WTF I gained 2-3M DPS on 5 targets 2 minutes with tornado
dusk stone
Theres no sectec inside thst window as well
swift tinsel
so you can supreme highroll and backstab->double ub->backstab(thousand cuts reset)->double ub
and get 4 stacks in 2 globals
no
the absolute latest you send sectech is 20sec out from flag
unless you're in aoe and have enough targets to cp farm
which is not trustworthy 99.9% of the time
acoustic matrix
yeah energy can cap you hard
safe fog
if you highroll it wont
brisk onyx
ive gotten circle + adds even on prog
ye i don't understand what is it, because at least I encountered this combo when I killed M Araz for the first time on 8/21
swift tinsel
wym highroll energy on storm
dusk stone
I mean i mostly do keys so storm happens a lot
acoustic matrix
highroll as in you get lucky with procs ?
swift tinsel
ye
like I said best case scenario is 4 stacks in 2 globals which is the dream
feels the juiciest when you get that in blades
if you get it in first dance its just
coomtown
drowning in flawless form stacks
swift tinsel
had it happen on a titan on saladbar
sadly not the kill pull
but our platform got deleted lol
dusk stone
I feel that
I had a 100 on saladbar until group fell over
I was not happy
I wish we had less aoe on platforms so 18 stack could let me bp more
stuck linden
Assuming in keys we are sending WAY more sectec w/ dance and no symbols?
Between blades/flag CDs
dim trail
Hey everyone, could you help me with some advice? I've noticed that many sub-rogue streamers are playing with Shuriken Tornado on M+, and that's raised several questions for me:
- When do you use Tea?
- Should I spam Black Powder on more than four targets? The streamers use one Black Powder and Eviscerate the rest.
- How should I play Araz+Netherprism correctly?
smoky geyser
- tea is usually macrod to shadow dance
- i dont understand what you mean they eviscerate the rest? do you mean coup de grace procs? yes use those otherwise black powder beats evisc on more than 4 targets
- alternate
dusk stone
Assuming in keys we are sending WAY more sectec w/ dance and no symbols?
No
You send sectec with symbols buff always
stuck linden
I thought with CDR wed be sending it without symbols to save 2 for big CDs
dusk stone
You send 1-2 dances/symbols and thus sectec between flag/blades
You have no energy without symbols
You farm cdr with symbols for dance usually but thats less of a thing this patch
dusk stone
Hey everyone, could you help me with some advice? I've noticed that many sub-rog...
Tea uses itself, best you can do is macro it to dance and forget about it.
No reason i can think of to use evis then BP unless you are talking about coup, coup you always send first because big dam and stacking buff it gives you
Double on use is for last 2 bosses of raid and isnt great otherwise. Maybe in some massive pull for keys but i dont think its good
split garden
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
dim trail
Thanks for the answers!
split garden
whats the best delve belt thing for sub?
chrome palm
crit chain
signal moth
i thought someone here said that in SD windows you are never using BP?
chrome palm
nope
high eagle
i thought someone here said that in SD windows you are never using BP?
I believe, as it says, you send BP on 4+.
dusk stone
Dont think anyone said that
high eagle
but u prio Secret tech and coup > BP always.
lethal kettle
So I’ve been trying to pick up sub and I suck 😂 looking through my logs apparently I’m wasting to much dance potential (like 40%). I think I struggle because if I try to send more dances in a pull, I can’t get the time right for CD’s. But if I play it to safe I miss potential. In both ways my damage is terrible. Best I’ve read is you get the feel for how many dances (1 to 2) to send between your 2 dances with CD’s. Thanks for reading my novel and how do you “get the feel for it”?
signal moth
someone said 'in your CDs you dont bp'
maybe it was storm in CDs
does that make more sense?
slate lantern
Ye
uneven fern
maybe it was storm in CDs
correct
slate lantern
Only between coup tier set procs to not waste UB do you storm
chrome palm
can we cloak conquer?
willow egret
how much mastery is enough for sub rogue ?
pulsar hemlock
All of it
chrome palm
a lot of it
willow egret
wont it have penalty ?
wild spire
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
willow egret
non-haste stats are all good
so its mastery > versa > crit
like i can have 100 percent mastery and it will still give big damage
chrome palm
typically this is the order, but you should sim your character
100% is high
i am relatively geared with roughly the same mastery and vers
again just sim
willow egret
sorry what is sim . relatively new here . apologies
willow egret
thank you
chrome palm
no problem
lethal lark
So we always want to have 2 SD banked for our cooldown window?
chrome palm
you can do 1 sod and ~10s remaining on recharge
and then 1 dance and ~35s remaining on recharge
cedar willow
32% crit / 100% mastery 18% vers (crit & vers ~ 15k each); is crit a bit high?
fierce lintel
Does feint reduce Forgemaster damians Heatwave dot when applie if feint is active?
chrome palm
Does feint reduce Forgemaster damians Heatwave dot when applie if feint is activ...
seems to
!def
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <
chrome palm
certain dots are reduced with avoidance/feint
fierce lintel
idk if thats the intial burst or the dot thats applied after
like if the dots based on how much dmg the burst does
or something
chrome palm
dot i think is a set amount after the burst, but it might mitigate the dot as well
fierce lintel
if it does that would be huge
chrome palm
i believe astral burn (forgeweaver araz intermission dot) is mitigated with feint without elusiveness
fierce lintel
so technically the same should apply
chrome palm
you should probably play elusiveness in keys regardless though
chrome palm
so technically the same should apply
its pretty much totally random what rogue defensives work on what
some magic effects for instance cloak just doesnt work on
fierce lintel
yeah like 2nd boss on priory I cant soak it when cloaks active
chrome palm
feint usually works on most things
fierce lintel
but can walk into it then cloak
warm marlin
like if the dots based on how much dmg the burst does
it works, can feint at any time (the dot is not based on the burst, you can just feint to reduce the dot which is considered aoe)
for future reference can check these things in logs generally if you're curious
chrome palm
yeah like 2nd boss on priory I cant soak it when cloaks active
yeah you can take a stack, walk back and soak two with cloak, and then you have no dots
fierce lintel
ok ok
chrome palm
the first second of cloak will immune the dot from braunpyke
fierce lintel
oh only the first
chrome palm
yeah
you gotta A-D spam in the first second
i think you can only get 2 in that window
chrome palm
nah
fierce lintel
im assuming its not just 40+20
chrome palm
its still 40%
chrome palm
doesnt add extra aoe dr
swift tinsel
its broken down between direct and aoe damage
swift tinsel
only really helpful in something like kyveza fight or if you find yourself tanking
chrome palm
or when blizzard decides that cheat death does nothing on certain fights
swift tinsel
those cases are fun to find lol
chrome palm
like the hardest and last two bosses in the raid
lethal lark
Do we use BS during SD? Or just shadowstrike
chrome palm
you can backstab to consume premeditation for an extra stack of danse macabre
winter ice
@lucid jackal sorry to ping u king but can u link ur cb m+ spec
hallow night
What could blizzard do to make haste a more relevant stat without messing with the gcd? The consistent gcd of rogue is actually super sick
"consistent"
high eagle
I actually like not having haste 😂
chrome palm
What could blizzard do to make haste a more relevant stat without messing with t...
If they increase the auto attack speed enough it would be good
winter flicker
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
rancid crow
Are these good stats for sub?
crude jasper
hey yall, cant seem to find it specifically, is 2+2 preferred over season 2 4 set?
dusk stone
Yes
crude jasper
Thank you ❤️
dusk stone
Are these good stats for sub?
No
rancid crow
What should be different?
dusk stone
We hate haste and that looks like too much mastery
rancid crow
Oh hate haste? Why’s that?
These are my guildies stats for his monk btw, his mastery was crazy high and I assumed it was a good thing, but I guess I was wrong. I’m still learning tho
dusk stone
Its half the value of other stats or around there
warm marlin
These are my guildies stats for his monk btw, his mastery was crazy high and I a...
well mastery %s are different for different specs
so you can't really compare them like that
hallow night
Does coup de grace aoe cleave off your target and where you're standing like caustic spatter does?
hallow night
So standing in the middle of the pack is pretty important
at least not out of range of things
lucid jackal
<@96834520417828864> sorry to ping u king but can u link ur cb m+ spec
sec let me log in lol
dusk stone
Marcellian thinks the lack of sub rogue logs is because in part people are private logging
Thats so funny
No there really just like 12 of us
hallow night
It's partially true that there are a few mega high up rogues that are in guilds who private log. These rogues are far more likely to be sub.
lucid jackal
CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mBAAAAAgZZMWmGzYmxMzYMDzMjhxsNLGzstNzMmZmBMWmtBAAAgZwwiZZGz2MM2YYZmlpFaZ2gB
hallow night
But there's plenty of data outside of those guilds you don't need them to come to conclusions
lucid jackal
U should probs have these two for halls of attonement
Mega slow is nice, wound poison helps on the miniboss before last boss in halls
Only spot it matters
stray oyster
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
torn bear
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tame terrace
sub is so fun then u run out of juice and are just sitting there pondering the mysteries of the world. then ur cds come back up and ur having fun again
signal moth
sub is so fun then u run out of juice and are just sitting there pondering the m...
so basically sin rogue in ST lol
hallow night
Why vers simming so high 😭
tame terrace
so basically sin rogue in ST lol
sin u still get to do envenom shit and maintaining bleeds
sub u can literally just sit there
waiting for cds
signal moth
sin u still get to do envenom shit and maintaining bleeds
yh kind of nice not to have mark i think is the main thing for me
radiant schooner
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
signal moth
i dont get why we need to backstab after dance instead of just shadowstrike?
winter ice
pre meditation
signal moth
yh but shadowstrike does that?
chrome palm
i dont get why we need to backstab after dance instead of just shadowstrike?
you are sacrificing the damage of shadowstrike for a 6% damage buff to the rest of your shadow dance window
its called danse macabre
signal moth
awwww
chrome palm
strike and stab do the exact same thing, the only difference is the combo points they give and the damage they do, but with premeditation, its only a difference in damage
dry plank
yh kind of nice not to have mark i think is the main thing for me
Sub also can have mark
dry plank
Never say never man we played ds in s1
chrome palm
that was a failed experiment
signal moth
Never say never man we played ds in s1
no legit never, id just go to sin lol
chrome palm
they buffed it so people would play it, but noone liked it. this season they made extra sure no one had to play it by nerfing the hero talent while it was already the worst
marble comet
Can Someone explain me why number 3 and why After 7 one more rupture?
strange heath
its just to dump any of your remaining combo points before going into your dance window and proccing premed with 10. shadowstrike
chrome palm
Can Someone explain me why number 3 and why After 7 one more rupture?
first eviscerate activates slide and dice
marble comet
Ok thx bois
strange heath
you can also pop flag earlier before spreading your ruptures so you build up the mastery before your window but it depends ive seen both
hallow night
its just to dump any of your remaining combo points before going into your dance...
You can premed later in the dance in a lot of situations
using premed on 2nd global is fine
In that specific situation it's always better to rupture before going into dance
strange heath
yeah thats what i was saying because if your going to proc your premed right after dancing then not dumping your combo points before is just overcapping
hallow night
but a lot of the time in keys you'll already have a rupture and SnD when damage is coming up
strange heath
well good thing he asked about the rotation in the picture
hallow night
So you can dance > sod > sec tec > back stab and it's fine
plush roost
dawnyB sheeee
hallow night
what key level?
plush roost
17
hallow night
do you have prism?
plush roost
no ;_;
hallow night
My damage is so much lower but my keys are also a lot lower
What was your dmg breakdown?
This was a dawnbreaker 8 I did earlier
hallow night
My coup is so much lower damn
oh wait when I open the big screen it's bigger
I might be rupturing too much outside of dances
plush roost
looks like it
hallow night
My gear is pretty good though. I should start pushing keys.
dusk stone
Nice dawnbreaker
Im in pug hell in 13s where healers think 40 feints in a key is 'bare minimum'
hallow night
Just got the dawnbreaker ring I wanted so now there's no more items in any dungeon for any spec I play that are an upgrade at 704.
I never felt too bad about feint when i was tea, but after going cold blood feint hurts bad
dusk stone
40 though lol
vagrant thorn
hmm.. taking another talent instead of secret technique is a 34% dps loss in single target! funny how such key abilities are even optional
dusk stone
It was 38 feints 12 evasion 8 vial 5 pots and still died 4x to rot damage
marble comet
How your shadow blades Deal so much damage ?
vagrant thorn
do you delay shadow blades until you get some flag stacks? 😛
hallow night
Just doing really good cds usage
marble comet
And u always insta use coup de Grace on procc with eviscarate?
dusk stone
No. If the target isnt fazed, dont use it
vagrant thorn
it's almost never the case that they arent fazed tbh
compact cobalt
Is there a target number of mobs we want to spread rupture on before starting dance? Like if it's an 8 mob pack, surely we're not blowing 16 gcds before SD right?
marble comet
And u always insta use coup de Grace on procc with eviscarate?
Just always with flag and then sd + symbols + tea into technicus into Single Target or multitaget Spender right ?
dusk stone
Its worth checking 100%
hallow night
Probably the hardest mechanical thing to get used to in sub burst window is knowing if shadowcraft will proc after coup or not. Because it can proc either mid coup or at the very end. So you can go from 3-7 Shadow technique stacks in 1 coup (1.2s global), especially during lust.
dusk stone
Just always with flag and then sd + symbols + tea into technicus into Single Tar...
You forgot backstab but yes
marble comet
Ok thx
hallow night
and messing up that can waste 14 combo points basically on your damage window
winter ice
Probably the hardest mechanical thing to get used to in sub burst window is know...
Get a shadowcraft WA that glows when ur at 7 combo points saved and you’ll learn it
dusk stone
Eh i just call myself bad if i dont react to the proc
hallow night
you can get the refund literally as your global comes up so you just have to know
dusk stone
Gotta learn the 1/4 second timing
winter ice
Set ur sqw to 50ms and enter ultra instinct to never miss a proc
hallow night
I turned mine down to 200
and it felt way better
I think sub 200 it starts to get sussy
marble comet
Set ur sqw to 50ms and enter ultra instinct to never miss a proc
What is this
bleak night
its what goku does
hallow night
winter ice
yeah sub 200 not recommended I think I’m at 170+ping so like 210
hallow night
at 250 the wrong input was still going through sometimes
so I just kept turning it down
dusk stone
Dont think ive touched it
hallow night
default is 400 which is the max
My friend had his at 120 for some reason on his evoker lmao
If you set it too low you'll miss a lot of globals
dusk stone
Idk my method is just object permanence
It can happen so check
A second is actually a really really long time
mossy karma
!atro
wicked joltBOT
Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <
mossy karma
!wa
wicked joltBOT
dusk stone
Deathstalker has such a cool class fantasy, sad tuning is not there
acoustic matrix
It's good on assa fwiw
dusk stone
Yeah but i fall asleep
round latch
yeah sub 200 not recommended I think I’m at 170+ping so like 210
im at 68,spell que on default
the only spec i actually change it is the pirate
not even on firemage
acoustic matrix
dawnyB sheeee
Isn't that rank 1 ?
winter ice
im at 68,spell que on default
Check him pc
dry plank
Probably the hardest mechanical thing to get used to in sub burst window is know...
Check stacks after pressing coup if it 6 100% get refund if 5 just wait half a sec
split garden
why does it feel like shadow dance sometimes last more or less than 8 seconds
acoustic matrix
The first dance ?
split garden
usually feels like my non major cd dance is short as fuck
dry plank
TFD talented
rustic mortar
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
split garden
is it common to be afking for multiple seconds at times outside of cds?
acoustic matrix
Yes
zenith hollow
anyone got tips for M soul hunters?
zenith hollow
near compass
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
limpid sage
im at 68,spell que on default
You have to press your buttons 14.7 times a second for that to not induce some kind of delay between globals
Without accounting for latency
Or just time your presses perfectly as your gcd comes off
toxic swan
!wa
wicked joltBOT
split garden
do i need to mana oil both weapons?
round latch
Or just time your presses perfectly as your gcd comes off
ive never ever had an issue with spellque whatsoever
the only spec that had meaningful impact for me at least was outlaw
winter ice
Rewatching kushi dimmy kill he’s sending his first 2 dance globals and then pressing sblades, does tech not get bonus from sblades ?
dreamy badger
You press blades when using first sectech
green pollen
hello everyone, if i start to pickup sub new for m+, i got a bit overwhelmed for that many cooldowns, is it a big downgrade if i just macro flagelation into shadow blades because it has the same cooldown? instead of using flagelation then rupture then the rest ?
potent verge
question re: openining/big m+ pulls and I have all CD's - do i spend time spreading ruptures before popping off, or just do that after shadowblades?
plush roost
Rupture during gather as soon as its all together cds
potent verge
ok ty ty
plush roost
hello everyone, if i start to pickup sub new for m+, i got a bit overwhelmed for...
Its a pretty large loss as u wont have blades for 3 seconds of shadow dance
slender beacon
Would it be wasteful to craft (2) 720 daggers 👀
plush roost
Would it be wasteful to craft (2) 720 daggers 👀
Yes offhand is lowest value
green pollen
Its a pretty large loss as u wont have blades for 3 seconds of shadow dance
ok thanks alot
winter ice
You blades the button before sectech not the one after tho right
potent verge
one more question: am I fishing for coup de grace or just as I get them on a big pack (eg start of floodgate) because i'm sending shuriken+bp right?
or still evisc during shadow dance?
plush roost
You blades as or within .6 seconds of sec tecs cast
dreamy badger
hello everyone, if i start to pickup sub new for m+, i got a bit overwhelmed for...
Blades+trinket, dance+backstab castsequence are the only 2 macros you can use on sub
Everything else is damage loss
chrome palm
With prism you should keep it unmacrod
winter ice
You blades as or within .6 seconds of sec tecs cast
Huh I always did right before prolly why my sblades dmg is lower than avg
dreamy badger
With prism you should keep it unmacrod
^
chrome palm
You can hold on st for big pull or to not overkill a pack or to line up with potion
plush roost
one more question: am I fishing for coup de grace or just as I get them on a big...
You shadowstrike in dance in aoe always. You can fish with backstab if you know you will get a proc or need flawless form
tall hatch
!gear
wicked joltBOT
potent verge
You shadowstrike in dance in aoe always. You can fish with backstab if you know ...
Thanks for clarification. I assume still finish with BP if aoe pack, unless I get coup de grace?
chrome palm
Being ables to blades captain dailcry and then have 18 stack prism on the next pull is very very good
plush roost
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
plush roost
Thanks for clarification. I assume still finish with BP if aoe pack, unless I ge...
4+ or 3+ with fw
chrome palm
Don’t sims say this isn’t true and 9 stacks same as 18 in dungeon settings
Basically the whole point of playing sub is being able to hold damage for specific events
And prism is another way to do this
dreamy badger
Holding is nice for some fights
potent verge
awesome ty Charrend
winter ice
Being ables to blades captain dailcry and then have 18 stack prism on the next p...
Timing a dungeon wise this is the exact same as sending two 9 stacks
chrome palm
It’s not
west tide
same reason why the forge trinket likely better than antenna for lots of fights
pure pollen
4+ or 3+ with fw
is the 3+ with FW an in general thing or only inside of dance?
plush roost
is the 3+ with FW an in general thing or only inside of dance?
In general
chrome palm
Timing a dungeon wise this is the exact same as sending two 9 stacks
If you are fighting a boss and then do a big pull, and you send 9 stacks on both, that is significantly less damage than sensing 0 on boss and 18 on big pack
winter ice
A slower mini boss + faster boss = avg kill time on both
plush roost
Unless ofc u want prio dps, then evis
chrome palm
A big pack is usually more dangerous than a boss
Like priory 1st boss and pull after
winter ice
so then why hold for boss
chrome palm
I think we are thinking of different things here
limpid sage
ive never ever had an issue with spellque whatsoever
Weird. You must be timing your key presses exactly as they come off gcd then - or just have freakishly fast fingers xd
chrome palm
Also sometimes if you send blades with prism you’d kill too fast
So holding prism lets you not worry about sending blades sorta
winter ice
Always better to not macro
plush roost
I wish i had a prism man...
chrome palm
Macro is good for double on use though since you can’t hold
round latch
Weird. You must be timing your key presses exactly as they come off gcd then - o...
used to be fast,now im old and mediocre
winter ice
still progging forge 💔
chrome palm
I wish i had a prism man...
After you kill fractillus
You can right click on the body
clever delta
Unless you playing with 3 hunters 😄
rigid delta
I'm assuming this trinket really is this good or are the sims a bit wonky with it? This is vs Antenna and Lily of the same ilvl
tame terrace
its pretty much the most required trinket for sub this season
like how house of cards was effectively required last season
acoustic matrix
i hate it when so much player power is locked behind a raid loot
rigid delta
I lost it to a Frost DK in last raid 😔
tame terrace
oof
acoustic matrix
Like it's everyone's bis
tame terrace
not really
bleak night
most 2m classes still prefer forge trinket afaik
tame terrace
context specific for everyone but sub and marks
araz is way better for most classes, and most people also dont want double on use
acoustic matrix
The thing with this trinket is it's even better with double on use
bleak night
double on use is not a popular thing
tame terrace
even if something is "bis" people will avoid going double on use because its just annooying
and the way u use prism, its pretty much a normal trinket, just with a 20second cooldown that doesnt actually matter since u just use it as if it was a cd trinket
acoustic matrix
Yeah idk anyone in his right mind that would sit on so much power just because it's "annoying"
And if it's really that annoying you can just macro it
bleak night
its not an annoyance thing double on use is just not good for the majority of specs in the game
sub is very unique in it being good on some bosses
acoustic matrix
It's very good in M+ too though
dusk stone
are healers just legitimately bad this patch or something?
tame terrace
yea its probably BIS for everyone in the context of M+
because of the stacking and popping it when u want
but for sub, its literally bis everywhere
stray stratus
Hey, is it correct to BP at 4 or more targets, in and out of dance? unsure if im misunderstanding wowhead guide
tame terrace
everyone else has other trinket sets they could consider bis for raid
dusk stone
Hey, is it correct to BP at 4 or more targets, in and out of dance? unsure if im...
the only difference is you bp at 3 targets if those targets have find weakness
dull wraith
Can some one rate my stats? Started as assa, now swapped to outlaw.
acoustic matrix
19% haste is very high
dull wraith
Hahahah its outlaw yee xd
clever delta
needing two raid trinkets is just cursed
i got normal prism and forge from tww cache
i will never loot it from raid so im praying for vault now
iron plover
What are the tww caches?
dry plank
i got normal prism and forge from tww cache
Tww cache?
viral minnow
Any trick to flagellation not resetting after wipe?
haughty mural
1.5m cds won’t get resetted
keen dome
Just have to hope they fix it someday
If I get into the Alpha I'm gonna make a bug report about it every day
haughty mural
Blades does only reset because it used to be a 3 min then a 2min cd
And still carries it over
keen dome
Which is why if they made Flag a 2m cooldown it wouldn't reset, probably
'cos it's most likely a seperate flag
viral minnow
Annoying af, Ty
strange geode
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
vale pine
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
ruby mortar
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
flint birch
!wa
wicked joltBOT
wild hornet
Can some one rate my stats? Started as assa, now swapped to outlaw.
armory for the tmog? 
fleet wharf
!loot
wicked joltBOT
pliant hazel
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
final charm
Hello, I’m new to sub, can someone explain is it worth to use rupture on singke fights and is it worth to spread rupture on packs in m+?
vale pine
you basically want to have rupture on your main target
and if you have more targets, and they survive for a bit, you spread it to additional targets
especially in m+, you often probably won't spread
simply because the adds will die in passive cleave, and you want to kill the priority targets faster
final charm
is it because rupture dealing more dmg then single evi from combo points view?
vale pine
rupture is worth using yes
stiff pollen
would you pref tea or cb build for m+, I see a lot of ppl recommedning tea but also seems like more people are playing cb
vale pine
both is fine
final charm
so I don’t get any benifits like in assasnation like energy/agi stack, just smart to use cause of dps right?
vale pine
tea feels better when learning
dusk stone
i find cb worse just because you can run out of energy in cds
vale pine
but they are very close and you can't go wrong with either
stiff pollen
ye, i don't dislike tea but I really don't like pressing shuriken tornado - doesn't seem to have much value most of the time atm 😄
dusk stone
tea isn't neccessarily tied to tornado
hollow spear
Tea and cb aren't tied to the right side
dusk stone
tea feels better when learning
so i saw you recommending the the rotten build vs the finality one for keys, yet i keep hearing it doesn't sim as high. It's the one I prefer but what's your opinion on it?
hollow spear
I feel like people are getting their panties in a twist over sims, when the delta between most popular versions is like 1%
keen dome
Sometimes you just play what you enjoy
hollow spear
It you feel comfortable with one version and less comfortable with another, the former will always outperform if the sim delta is so low
keen dome
100%
vale pine
so i saw you recommending the the rotten build vs the finality one for keys, yet...
rotten is ~1% worse with optimized gear
but can be closer even if your crit is low
acoustic matrix
!log