they just say it because some m+ streamer
#subtlety
shadow lance
So, funnel can be prio but prio not always funnel
vale pine
you can foucs a mop and prioritize the part of the damage to this target
rapid forum
they just say it because some m+ streamer
and because 50%+ of wow pop is hunters and rets who can only single target or pad and no inbetween
vale pine
it does not increase if you get more targets like funnel does
subelty had shuriken combo in the past
vale pine
which did increase your evis damage when you hit targets with storm
this did lead to the funnel damage profile
short radish
im still traumatised from HoA "funneling" into the golems and losing on damage to the warlocks spamming RoF into it
vale pine
tho this was just purged without real compensation
because funnel was stated to be too strong of a niche
short radish
sub is still paying for the sins of zul
short radish
lilac stag
vale pine
luckily it does not ^^
short radish
yeah no classes have funnel
rapid forum
this did lead to the funnel damage profile
also old flag hit way harder and wasnt only for the buff no?
glacial kraken
hate flag
rapid forum
i remember casting it manually yes
lilac stag
mm sbs
rapid forum
but i remember more to pop flag and delete some prios in big pulls
brittle plinth
Thanks for the details @vale pine
vale pine
every time you used it on a new target, all active dots did trigger and do damage to the main target
lilac stag
I miss Kevin
vale pine
Thanks for the details <@194804407706189824>
no problem, hope the diffrence is easier to understand
rapid forum
every time you used it on a new target, all active dots did trigger and do damag...
didnt it also fill cps after 2 or 3 targets?
oh and it was ranged too lulle
vale pine
even funnier
there was a bug
the dot would continue to count on dead targets
so what people did on beta was
pull a huge amount of mobs
short radish
didnt it also fill cps after 2 or 3 targets?
still does kinda
vale pine
and gather them around a boss
all of them dead and dottet
then pop bone spike on the boss
rapid forum
still does kinda
yes but you have to use rupture which dont always want
vale pine
and watch the boss getting oneshot
rapid forum
back then you just send sbs
vale pine
by the secondary triggers from each of the dead corpses
shrewd lantern
and because 50%+ of wow pop is hunters and rets who can only single target or pa...
all rets pad wdym
as soon as 2 red nameplates
frigid latch
hey really qucik question why first dance over master of shadows
bump
shrewd lantern
divine stormmmmm
short radish
all rets pad wdym
2targets? guess its time for a storm
shrewd lantern
my class is sandbagging without a crafted 2h?
rapid forum
2targets? guess its time for a storm
one of them is immune? divine storm
shrewd lantern
time to shut down the discord until blizzard buffs
vale pine
my class is sandbagging without a crafted 2h?
true
rogues sandbag by not crafting 2h weapons
smh
short radish
there was this chinese cooked build briefly for like 3 weeks in s1 where you could unbind templars verdict and just divine storm on single target
it was like 2% behind the regular ST build
and as soon as you get a single mob in there it's ahead
swift tinsel
peak gameplay
vale pine
we had some stupid game play too
warm marlin
there was this chinese cooked build briefly for like 3 weeks in s1 where you co...
this is sounding a bit familiar...
vale pine
e.g. assassisantion had a bug they would use only fan of knives as combo point builder and even not use finisher outside of maintaining their dots for energy
short radish
this is sounding a bit familiar...
it was like mid season cook as well
glacial kraken
e.g. assassisantion had a bug they would use only fan of knives as combo point b...
peak gameplay
vale pine
outlaw had a azerite trait you would only use snd as finisher
warm marlin
what other spec has a hero tree where their aoe finisher is very close to being pressed in st 
short radish
i think it got some play on broodtwister and the duo boss
lilac stag
sub had no azerite traits 
vale pine
XD
short radish
what other spec has a hero tree where their aoe finisher is very close to being ...
black powder has been buffed by 13%
vale pine
i think subtleties tree design is benefitial in some sense
we can get aoe and st with low trade offs
so we don't need to decide
vale pine
theoretcally would mean the spec should always be the go-to choice in raiding/m+
lilac stag
black powder has been buffed by 13%
short radish
playing feral is pain after bossfights
vale pine
sadly tuning and some other problems are in our way
vale pine
to be fair
idk what the next xpac will bring
but it might be some reworks to the baseline tree
glacial kraken
Rogue class tree is gonna be in a weird spot with the new talent points being added
short radish
i really hope we just get some QoL stuff
and not huge change ups
this current iteration of sub for all its faults
is acutally really good
vale pine
idk, looking at the DK tree
i feel like it will be wild
but lets see once blizz drops more info
lilac stag
idk what the next xpac will bring
a load of fun for other classes, and panic in the dicord until we get 4 lines of blue text a week before launch
vale pine
i don't know
outlaw def. gets a change
it was name dropped
subtlety is in the happy gray zone
lilac stag
gunslinger inc
vale pine
where technically, gameplay is fun
short radish
glacial kraken
rouge class tree is kinda bottom heavy
vale pine
but also, there is a lot of qol improvements you can have
also blizz is big on approachability
glacial kraken
this area is kinda nuts
vale pine
at least they did say in their interviews
glacial kraken
compared to the other triple dps trees
vale pine
that they want all specs to be more approachable
and i feel like subtlety is one of the specs people avoid because its not that good in that reguard
warm marlin
this area is kinda nuts
i think this is kind of fine other than deeper strat being mandatory
vale pine
e.g. shadowcraft is a good example
short radish
they say that but feral still has snapshotting
vale pine
people still come in discord
warm marlin
some mildly interesting choices
mossy ledge
at how many stacks should i be using netherprism? i assume i dont rip it off start since its at like 1 stack
vale pine
"bro, why do i get random cp refunds"
and they read the tooltip
and still don't understand how it works
glacial kraken
some mildly interesting choices
its just a bit odd compared to the others
hazy breach
i think this is kind of fine other than deeper strat being mandatory
The vanish row being useless for sub is kinda sus too
vale pine
The vanish row being useless for sub is kinda sus too
i mean its just collateral damage
warm marlin
The vanish row being useless for sub is kinda sus too
useless on one spec, interesting choice on another, mandatory on a 3rd
astral axle
idk im not convinced people who dont understand cp refunds from shadowcraft have actually read what it does xd
warm marlin
kinda cool
vale pine
the dev team decided to specifically make changes to subterfuge to make it good for assassiantion
lilac stag
and they read the tooltip
where we not just told to ignore tooltips. 
short radish
idk im not convinced people who dont understand cp refunds from shadowcraft have...
its because they also need to read shadow techniques
vale pine
but felt like subtlety is not worth the same effort
lilac stag
poor sectech
short radish
poor sectech
gaslamped by blizzard
lilac stag
rogue in general
glacial kraken
having these 5 pillars of throughput at the bottom, while mage, lock and hunter have them sprinkled throughout their trees
short radish
and shadowtechniques tooltip was kinda shit
vale pine
bottom line is, they didn't tread specs as equally important with changes
short radish
its still kinda shit
vale pine
i think the idea of rogue general tree is good
you have a lot of agency in the utility rows
swift tinsel
I think sub is in a favorable position in that it doesn't take a full rework to make it more accessible, just some very minor things that don't necessarily dumb down gameplay
streamlining
vale pine
and the bottom is dps rows, which is the best placement to allow decisions
short radish
combine dance + symbols
make sectech only castable in dance
combine flag and blades
remove FW
hazy breach
Rework flag into a netherprism type cd 
short radish
holy shit sub is solved
vale pine
i like that idea
glacial kraken
Rework flag into a netherprism type cd <:Prayge:853676656722968597>
real
swift tinsel
Rework flag into a netherprism type cd <:Prayge:853676656722968597>
this would be the biggest windmill dunk from half-court ever
short radish
yeah that'd acutally be insane
swift tinsel
its absolutely thematic for sub
short radish
lean even further into our burst
swift tinsel
perfect gameplay integration
warm marlin
you have a lot of agency in the utility rows
id like to see shadowheart and maybe rushed setup replaced with a poison dispel and an actual aoe stun 
glacial kraken
how tf is goremaws still around
vale pine
its also collateral damage
vale pine
it was a short term solution to fill the tree
swift tinsel
its capstone-worthy
vale pine
but never done anything with it
swift tinsel
can be a tuning knob
hazy breach
id like to see shadowheart and maybe rushed setup replaced with a poison dispel ...
I think shadowheart is fine conceptually, it just doesnt work 
vale pine
the sylvanas dagger effect would fit perfectly in that spot
swift tinsel
has positive gameplay implications
vale pine
haha
short radish
having execute would be kinda nice
swift tinsel
make EoN replace PV
astral axle
netherprism is cool and it would be nice to see it in the tree
swift tinsel
and swap spots with inev
warm marlin
I think shadowheart is fine conceptually, it just doesnt work <a:KEKWBASS:740244...
sure or master poisoner removed and baked in baseline or something
vale pine
but never rly made to be fun
swift tinsel
to fix pathing stuff
warm marlin
option for real utility would be good
swift tinsel
Inev being in PV spot would be amazing
astral axle
id also like tier to be in the new trickster tree
hazy breach
Just a refresh of our utility options would be welcome
vale pine
i also think secret should be not targeted
swift tinsel
no more needing to take pv to get 2/2 finality or db builds
short radish
Just a refresh of our utility options would be welcome
make shroud usable again
vale pine
why do i need a target for flag, can't it be on me instead of the target?
swift tinsel
baking flag damage into a buff for blades would be good
grand wyvern
i just got my netherprism and currently my bast simming trinkets are netherprism+lily, is it possible to make a macro that alternate using them or am I forced into 2 different buttons?
warm marlin
i also think secret should be not targeted
how does this work with it doing double damage to main target tho
i like the prio aspect
astral axle
Yeah that's what is a bugbear for me is shroud like... they added all this stuff to make it so you can now pot to shadowmeld skip things which otherwise aren't skippable
short radish
i just got my netherprism and currently my bast simming trinkets are netherprism...
!macro
swift tinsel
I'd like if it was reversed into a funnel ability
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
astral axle
why not just remove the stupid eyeball
so shroud can do the same thing the meld skip does
swift tinsel
clones do damage to everything and a portion is funneled into the main target
vale pine
speedshroud was one of the best things you can add
grand wyvern
!macro
that wouldn't work tho because lily has 90s cooldown, wouldn't it always use just the first trinket?
swift tinsel
speedshroud very overlooked imo
vale pine
i would use seperate key binds for double on use
glacial kraken
without truesight in some places you'd get some pretty grim routes
swift tinsel
you get a roar/windrush
glacial kraken
some areas just have too many eyes
stray oyster
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
astral axle
I guess my thing is like if they have the truesight stuff which you can bypass with a meld skip, be it bubbles, the two palookas before final boss in floodgate, whatever, like... shroud in effect would do the same thing if it weren't for truesight
swift tinsel
honestly truesight seems like a dev's revenge for people skipping shitty mob placement
short radish
the worst part is that they can just fix it by making the shitty mobs worth not skipping
swift tinsel
yep
short radish
but that'd be too hard
swift tinsel
case and point, those two enforcers before last boss in FG
whoever thought of putting two of them there
needs help
legitimately one of the most annoying pulls of the season
short radish
even worse
novel marlin
it was name dropped
How so?
rancid crow
is there any harm in doing the macro this way instead of with shadow dance?:
#showtooltip Flagellation
/cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Flagellation
This feels more natural, but there might be downsides that I'm missing
short radish
and theres nowhere to damage
because theres only 2 sides and theyre both covered with lightning
short radish
astral axle
rigid delta
Is anyone aware of a WA that reminds you to cast SoD before pull for the supercharge? I always forget
rigid delta
https://wago.io/1N-_8fnRf
Thank you!!
short radish
yoink
swift tinsel
How so?
outlaw has been specifically named as being too weakaura-reliant in interviews
swift tinsel
due to its complexity
vale pine
because of rtb and stuff
lilac stag
Too WA dependent
novel marlin
the dev team decided to specifically make changes to subterfuge to make it good ...
What if it extended SD for sub?
swift tinsel
that'd be a bit redundant with tfd, instead of having too much dance uptime for all dances vs more cdr for comfier dance placement would be a better move imo
vale pine
What if it extended SD for sub?
subterfuge added duration to sahdow dance in the past
but what i referenced to was
the early tww changes did change how subterfuge works on assasisantion
specifically to make the talent good
while for subtlety
coral hamlet
my overall damage BP has the most damage instead of nimble, whats wrong?
vale pine
it remains as a useless talent point
so there is a diffrence in effort spend between the specs
when updating talents
where one takes priority
and its fine when the other has talents it can't utialize
to be fair subtlety is gameplay wise in my opinion the best
and the rotation is fun
so its not the end of the world to have talents in need of reworks/change
velvet nova
Sub is good when you don't have to press symbols and dance separately
vale pine
i think smbols/blades
its such a weird situation
also because one resets with encounters
the other does not
fallow nimbus
Everything above 1min should reset
velvet nova
Everything should reset
fallow nimbus
Yes
vale pine
dance with 2 is 2 mins
swift tinsel
just reset everything
vale pine
^
swift tinsel
I don't see a reason why it should have a cooldown threshold
short radish
symbols with 3 charges
wiping just as you've pressed your last symbols charge
is so painful
swift tinsel
yep
novel marlin
played rog since Calssic and enjoyed all three specs at times. But sub right now is peak rogue exprience imo too.
short radish
espeically with prepull bullshit
you get one charge back
but you spend that so youre waiting 1.5 minutes again
keen holly
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
warm marlin
of our 43 pulls on dh/nexus king yesterday i got symbols/disorienting on 40 of them 
velvet nova
For some reason last night I kept not critting with SS in dance. Felt bad to SS at 5 cps
nova dew
guys i got 4p and i can craft shoulder as my off piece? should i go for it? crafted a dagger already
no myth pieces
warm marlin
For some reason last night I kept not critting with SS in dance. Felt bad to SS ...
its not about critting, you proc cps based on auto attacks. outside of blades its pretty unlikely you proc to 7 cp on every shadowstrike
nova dew
cuz only ver mastery shoulder is 2ndboss and already killed
trail inlet
!wa
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
guys i got 4p and i can craft shoulder as my off piece? should i go for it? craf...
you can sim it, but given that we get another spark soon just craft whatever gives you the best upgrade
urban ice
im new to sub and still learning - how much can you trust raidbots? it says my bloodstained memento is significant stronger than my big mooma med.... like by 150 k raidbots seems to like crit a lot i guess?
high eagle
im new to sub and still learning - how much can you trust raidbots? it says my b...
If you have a substantial amount more of mastery and verse and no crit, it'll be like that.
vale pine
im new to sub and still learning - how much can you trust raidbots? it says my b...
crit/vers/mastery are all 3 good stats
swift tinsel
yeah once I got to like 23k mastery it wanted me to dump it into crit
clever holly
are they ok like that then?
urban ice
thank you! thats crazy since i run pacemaker
lilac stag
https://imgur.com/n1LLGOA
are they ok like that then?
Too much haste.
swift tinsel
reforge it to crit
clever holly
reforge was so good
swift tinsel
in a world without expertise, hit, etc it would be kinda nice to have again and wouldn't require ReforgeLite
high eagle
I'm convinced the high nerubian signet doesn't exist outside of m0. I've spammed that damn dungeon in +10's so much.
swift tinsel
and haste breakpoints largely don't exist anymore unless you're outlaw
warm marlin
I'm convinced the high nerubian signet doesn't exist outside of m0. I've spammed...
if you dont plan to upgrade for a while you can buy a champion boe pure vers or vers/mast ring for like 250k
its not so bad
hazy breach
When do they usually make mythic boes tradeable
lilac stag
what's worse, i had it in my vault and couldnt take it
slate marlin
damn
lilac stag
tier legs too good
warm marlin
what's worse, i had it in my vault and couldnt take it
damn that is tragic
slate marlin
what did you get?
lilac stag
worse case we buy the mythic boe at some point
warm marlin
that is my plan
the vers rings are already way cheaper than the other ones
should be easy to get for a discount
lilac stag
yea, so while i was sad, it wasnt a heartbreaker. was happy with legs
swift tinsel
yeah I'm either going that route or crafting next week
lilac stag
i'll craft a ring next week
swift tinsel
got the Priory ring hero so imma sit on that unless I get a myth vault ring
warm marlin
crafted neck looking nice but feels a bit riskier than ring
rare sedge
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
lilac stag
the avoidance is nice and kinda makes me want to toss 30 gilded in it next week
swift tinsel
gotta a hero Momma neck so upping my crafted ring to 720 is the play methinks
lilac stag
crafted neck looking nice but feels a bit riskier than ring
i did the neck just incase we get on a prog boss where I need to run assa
easy to swap it around
i'll do bracers once I have a socket to use
clever delta
guys
what logic sims use for prism with passive trinket?
does it send it with every cd or hold for 3min?
swift tinsel
I opted for bracers 2nd craft bc my old ones were pre-Turbo 675 
clever delta
i have only pace
errant ferry
Maybe a dumb question but about when do I start holding dance before a blades window?
half dragon
is it better to use a shuriken storm in place of backstab as first global in dance when theres cleave? was looking at the rank 1 forge sub rogue and he does it, or is it just a whatever thing
high eagle
I did weapon and bracers craft. I'm a sucker for any agility I can get, even if it's low on bracers.
lilac stag
is it better to use a shuriken storm in place of backstab as first global in dan...
depends if youre a rotten gamer
tepid flint
hey guys,I want to ask how many Shadow Dances I can use between 2 Shadow Blades without the first dance.
half dragon
depends if youre a rotten gamer
he isnt though, thats why im confused
lilac stag
why are you not running tfd?
swift tinsel
2 between first and second, 1 (maybe 2) between second and third
repeat til dead
you or boss whichever comes first
warm marlin
is it better to use a shuriken storm in place of backstab as first global in dan...
Shadowstrike >= backstab > storm unless rotten in aoe
shy beacon
Heyo, got antenna in vault, but cant get my hands on a netherprism, what would you play instead? feels bad x.x
river thunder
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
half dragon
Shadowstrike >= backstab > storm unless rotten in aoe
its first global though so guaranteed max combo points either way
swift tinsel
Heyo, got antenna in vault, but cant get my hands on a netherprism, what would y...
lily or pvp trinket probs
half dragon
for dance macab
warm marlin
its first global though so guaranteed max combo points either way
yea but shadowstrike does more damage. Backstab for the dm stack is worth more in st, the shadowstrike cleave value makes it equal to the dm stack in larger aoe
swift tinsel
with rotten are you still strike->sectech->storm->bp or am I living in the past
warm marlin
could argue backstab does more prio
warm marlin
with rotten are you still strike->sectech->storm->bp or am I living in the past
I think you still want to storm second ideally since the premed value is better on ss or bs
errant ferry
If sectec is off cooldown and you have a symbols charge but no dance do you send symbols a s sectec or wait for dance?
alpine wraith
depends on how far flag is
swift tinsel
I think you still want to storm second ideally since the premed value is better ...
yeah that's been my thought too, I didn't think the rotten bug change would have changed that but figured I'd ask in case it was looked into at all
tyty
errant ferry
depends on how far flag is
What are the conditions?
hazy breach
You shouldnt have stormed before
half dragon
so for forge boss, you just ignore the backstab and use shadowstrike i guess? that seems to be what people are doing
swift tinsel
ye this is purely aoe opener assuming no coups
or like a regular sod/dance pack in m+
I normally don't run rotten but was curious
alpine wraith
What are the conditions?
if flag is 30 secs away it is better to not sod+sec tech
if it is like 40-50 you can
swift tinsel
bc storm first loses premed value pretty quick
alpine wraith
as you will get back kinda the charge of SoD and you dont want to let sec tech be up so much
of course if you will cap dances like this you would not do it but you said all dances were on cd
so should be fine
swift tinsel
I'm assuming the 'not wanting to storm twice' is because its a builder that isn't able to proc UB which does big dam so you want to minimize those as much as possible while leveraging EB stack waste
alpine wraith
it is also because after 1 use it does not give DM stacks
swift tinsel
ah yeah that too
makes sense
weird edge case but in that scenario if you did the strike-sectech-storm-bp thing then get coup in that same dance do you just toss/shiv between
or eat the loss and strike
half dragon
ok im looking at soulbinder logs and people are also using shuriken instead of backstab in the dance opener
fallen depot
I tried posting this late yesterday but it was late. Anyone got time to check out a log?
half dragon
do they know some secret tech or
feral barn
!wa
wicked joltBOT
fallen depot
!log
tacit void
what changes from the normal rotation when im switching to the rotten?
vale pine
nothing
tacit void
no need to shuriken or whatever
vale pine
nope
tacit void
ty
swift tinsel
ok im looking at soulbinder logs and people are also using shuriken instead of b...
what logs? looking at top few mythic ones no one's doing that
saw one of them do it after sectech presumably to preserve disorienting bc they had coup ready
swift tinsel
very likely to preserve disorienting strikes bc they go into coup right after
potent geyser
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
swift tinsel
and didn't get a shadowcraft refund from sectech->coup or coup->coup
which is where you see the double storms
half dragon
quite a few of them also just doesnt backstab instead of strike, is that just a convenience thing or what is the target count its worth
swift tinsel
which ain't ideal
5? I don't recall exactly
it's been a long time since looking into that
@vale pine do you remember the target count where backstab loses value in aoe
with premed
swift tinsel
ah yeah
vale pine
was something like 5 targets or so
swift tinsel
okay yeah that's right, tysm
half dragon
thanks for making it make sense 🙂
flint sundial
!atro
wicked joltBOT
Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <
fickle mason
How do you guys feel about black powder in dungeons vs evisc spam, or do you mix it up when you have coup procs?
I feel like an evisc funnel is better a lot of the time even though theres more targets most the time but want someone elses thoughts.
hazy breach
You always use coup asap
Sectech > Coup > BP at more than 4 targets > Evis
Is the general prio
potent geyser
!wa
wicked joltBOT
robust talon
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
final moat
Silly question but tryna learn my Sub Rogue rotations. Usually play outlaw or assas
Can I bind Cold blood to Secret Tech?
shadow lance
You can but I don't recommend
dreamy badger
not ideal
final moat
Is there a reason why?
swift tinsel
you can if you have a naked sectech bind
crystal bone
Can I bind Cold blood to Secret Tech?
u can have a regular sectec button and a macro'd one
shadow lance
Wowhead guide, rotation section
crystal bone
u press the macro'd one on the 2nd sectec in your flag window
dreamy badger
might aswell use a naked cb keybind if you have 2 sectech binds xd
swift tinsel
you only ever cb 2nd sectech so its 2 binds either way
lucid jackal
In your cooldowns cold blood is used with the second set of shadow dances and symbols
lucid jackal
So you should have a cb sectec and a sectec keybind
final moat
just make 1 cb+sectech
makes sense
hybrid compass
is it worth to go sub on priory or its just brainless assa dung if i play assa/sub?
final moat
so I guess it is also silly to have a SD + Symbols
swift tinsel
yeah those two don't get macro'd ever
shadow lance
Yes
final moat
dayumn
crystal bone
is it worth to go sub on priory or its just brainless assa dung if i play assa/s...
sub good on every key
dreamy badger
is it worth to go sub on priory or its just brainless assa dung if i play assa/s...
if your tank pulls funnel into all the bosses, both good, if not, sub better imo
swift tinsel
you'd need to have a naked sod, naked dance, and macro bind if you did which doesn't really accomplish much
just have them on binds that are comfortable to press at the same time
or in really quick succession
proper rune
Is there a realiable weak aura or something that shows you when your next glboal will be max combo points to instantly evis again? get caught out far too much shadowstriking on full combo points because of Shadowcraft i believe?
shadow lance
Dance on 2, sod on 3
final moat
Good to run?
final moat
Dance on 2, sod on 3
oh wow
final moat
Dance on 2, sod on 3
shadow lance
Why you got 10 keybind?
serene notch
Antenna lowkey giving me transmitter ptsd
final moat
Why you got 10 keybind?
what else am I supposed to do D:
proper rune
mine looks way more over complex >.<
slate lantern
is this pvp
cursive vapor
coolest lookin abilities in game
final moat
is this pvp
uhh well last time I touched sub was PvP back in Azeroth
slate lantern
uhh well last time I touched sub was PvP back in Azeroth
why is cheap shot on 3 
final moat
are u saying i dont need all these buttons 😄
slate lantern
that is an insane prio button for something that barely is pressed
proper rune
why ARENT you spamming cheap shot pal
final moat
tbh it is a pvp setup, and i played subterfuge
cursive vapor
I also have cheap on 3 xD
crystal bone
that is an insane prio button for something that barely is pressed
barely never
final moat
i'm open to recommendations. I usually have F and Shift F for stuns/cc
warm marlin
mine looks way more over complex >.<
where are the health pots gang
shadow lance
are u saying i dont need all these buttons 😄
I'm saying you miss 20 keys
shadow lance
Where's storm?
final moat
too much for me
slate lantern
i'm open to recommendations. I usually have F and Shift F for stuns/cc
i mean keybinds are a very personal thing, so gotta find your own peace but that just seemed egregious haha
shadow lance
if ur talking about focus and off focus buttons/macros
No
shadow lance
I'm not in front of computer to screenshot yoy
slate lantern
4-9 are on my mmo mouse, shift for all my modifiers, the bottom row are the other 6 buttons on it
1-3 build, 4-6spend, cds on 7-9qe, defensives on s4-6
slate lantern
yee lol
warm marlin
always mmo mouse baiters 
slate lantern
from playing rotational abilities on outlaw on my mmo mouse my right thumb is SWOLE
alpine wraith
imagine not having fishing bound
ripe flame
imagine not having fishing bound
Twice
warm marlin
so true
swift tinsel
dumb question bc brain fog but do prism stacks decay out of combat
spice matrix
you guys dont have your consumes on hidden bars??? 
swift tinsel
I straight up can't remember
final moat
Sorry to ask this, but before I go learn Sub rogue. How good is Assas/Outlaw for both Mythics + PvP?
hollow pivot
hello im new to sub and im taking a degree to learn the spec
would it be troll to do a macro /cast backstab /cast shadowdance since u always want to backstab as first global into shadowdance ?
opal mantle
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
hazy breach
You wouldnt backstab if you had full cp
opal mantle
is there a wa that tracks coup
tepid trellis
probably dozens on wago
abstract oar
What is going on with 4
spice matrix
What is going on with 4
that's his goon keybind
abstract oar
hollow pivot
so its "If stealth bar, Backstab, otherwise Shadow Dance"
tyvm
solemn lance
on netherprism i assume there is no sense in hitting it on the pull burst since it has 0 stacks
warm marlin
each stack has the same value and you have a lot of burst on pull from tfd
you should press it with one stack (and if you're holding for 3 minutes, you will overcap one stack if you don't press it on pull)
solemn lance
ok
then after you coudl do evey cd phase or hold with damage amps if that boss has em
warm marlin
ye hold or send all is pretty much the same
solemn lance
ok, then in M+ if you know whihc pulls are gonan be huge you could save for those ones
crystal bone
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
solemn lance
and store up 18 for a boss? it didnt look like m+ bosses reset it
dry tapir
!macro
warm marlin
very flexible trinket so its your choice
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
abstract oar
I am just alternating prism and lily every 1.5m
solemn lance
its actually kinda cool to have a trinket you plan out rather then just macro and forget
lime edge
!wa
wicked joltBOT
crystal bone
its actually kinda cool to have a trinket you plan out rather then just macro an...
yea u could min/max, or u could also macro prism to blades and forget it exists and it'll still be better than any other trinket lol
hollow pivot
yea u could min/max, or u could also macro prism to blades and forget it exists ...
worst part of prism is getting it
solemn lance
lucky vault for me for heroic
crystal bone
worst part of prism is getting it
sry idk about that, got week 1 on champ track 
spice matrix
prism doesnt exist
fallen marsh
i just joined and left fractilis groups till i found one where i was only rolling against 1 guy lol
and got it first try
glacial kraken
nice smoke bomb
vale widget
8 ecodomes in all day, 0 lilys
Fuck me
warm marlin
8 ecodomes in all day, 0 lilys
Fuck me
gotta pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers
crystal bone
rotund urchin
How much is the DPS in raidbots, what should I have a subtlety in raid, I'm checking how much DPS I lose since I'm assassination
warm marlin
It’ll be lower than assa by 400-500k in raidbots probably
But raidbots isn’t accurate for actual gameplay (unless its fractillus)
vale widget
gotta pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers
I know i know, but its all tiredsome
proper rune
damn running a quicksim on sub and a quicksim same gear fatebound assa. Fatebound assa runs a mil dps higher
Wanted to raid sub tonight but looks like thats out the window
vale widget
A bit of resting and go again, all for big numbers
warm marlin
Wanted to raid sub tonight but looks like thats out the window
the sim number doesn’t matter unless it’s frac
Sub is better on multiple fights
proper rune
but fatebound assa is king on frac?
vale pine
But raidbots isn’t accurate for actual gameplay (unless its fractillus)
any tool is as good as the one using it
proper rune
Ah literally this was just asked and replied to less than 5 minutes ago XD
warm marlin
but fatebound assa is king on frac?
yes, and loom/plexus but there are kill timers for those 2 that still favor sub
warm marlin
I just meant the time at which you push into execute
versed swift
The biggest factor is adds imho
vale widget
The rotten is no longer bug with shuriken storm? Last time I tried sub it was bugged
versed swift
Adds = sub, no adds = assa
versed swift
he phased the last time at 34%
We got last intermission at 5.5% after blowing fat load and all cds
Turned my 99 into a mid 80
vale pine
The rotten is no longer bug with shuriken storm? Last time I tried sub it was bu...
the bug was fixed
tepid trellis
Adds = sub, no adds = assa
well as the fights get shorter and shorter, sub will benefit more
versed swift
Going to kill our floor pov dks
warm marlin
my plexus was goated this week
we killed him at 6:01 so i only got the 430 deathmark with no prism stacks and no vanish in execute
versed swift
well as the fights get shorter and shorter, sub will benefit more
True
warm marlin
think i wouldve done better on sub
tepid trellis
we killed him at 6:01 so i only got the 430 deathmark with no prism stacks and n...
mine was 5:20
warm marlin
i did int a bit by not holding but
mild carbon
what should my first craft be with my sparks of starlight?
trying to get into pve
atm wearing full pvp gear
warm marlin
there's still the annoyance of trying to calculate if you should hold vanish at 3mins or pot or whatever, if you should send prism at 130/430 instead, sub can just macro it and vibe
tepid trellis
wep if you dont already got 720+ wep
plush roost
well as the fights get shorter and shorter, sub will benefit more
Hey stealthi since youre here i watched your fract kill vod and you shadowstepped wall breaks, when i was doing it the walls didnt break. There some timing tech?
tepid trellis
Hey stealthi since youre here i watched your fract kill vod and you shadowsteppe...
your body needs to move
rapid stream
i realize my details isn't showing the Secret Technique shadows dmg, is it a bug or a wrong config?
grand isle
how many targets for blackpowder to be worth
tepid trellis
4
proper rune
tbh the sims distance shrinks to about 500k when i incorporate 4set
which i dont have right now as i dont wanna waste a catalyst on champ piece
tepid trellis
sub 4set is rediculously strong
but assa's is also very fcking good
its like 30% vs 20%
or smth like that
solemn briar
debating switching from ass to sub, in terms of dps they ain't too different right
versed swift
4
Does this apply in raid too? Most logs I've been seeing still slam eviscerate on forge etc but it could just be prio dmg vs add dmg
stiff remnant
how come sub is bad on Frac?
hazy breach
It does bad singletarget
vale pine
its one of the worse prue single target specs in the game
tepid trellis
you cant really apply fw outside of your dances
vale pine
thats why
stiff remnant
oh lol I thought there was a bug or something
chrome palm
we killed him at 6:01 so i only got the 430 deathmark with no prism stacks and n...
Is soma private logging
warm marlin
ya we private log prog
rapid stream
is there any way to track unseen blade cd?
tepid trellis
maybe not even that bad, if kill timer is okay
warm marlin
its to keep certain members of us from focusing on damage
chrome palm
I mean at least as sub on Fract you don’t need to play around schizophrenic cooldowns
wide maple
Question: when i send mini cooldowns in m+ ie just shadow dance into ST, should i send 1 spender first for DM?
gloomy bone
!wa
wicked joltBOT
wide maple
or should i send ST early as possible for cd
chrome palm
its to keep certain members of us from focusing on damage <:garf:132017303274389...
I’m glad we don’t have that problem 🙈 🙈 🙈
hallow night
Why exactly do you shuriken storm between coup de grace procs? What talents and procs are interacting to make it so you don’t munch unseen blade?
lucid jackal
I am just alternating prism and lily every 1.5m
You should get a non lily trinket
wide maple
You waste a UB stack if u dont use shuriken
faint egret
hello
hallow night
Why exactly evilshotty?
round grotto
You waste a UB stack if u dont use shuriken
how much of a dps loss is it anyway
lucid jackal
Why exactly evilshotty?
Because shadowstrike procs unseen blade
u cant generate more Escallating blades when coup is ready
wide maple
So you maximize number of coups yo uget
lucid jackal
The 2nd coup counts as coup being ready
hallow night
So let’s say you’re in a situation where you’re doing back to back dances with 2 symbols. Going into the second dance you have coup and sec tech comes up between them.
lucid jackal
r u in blades or not
faint egret
Does anyone have fuu's sheet?
tepid trellis
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hallow night
Is it worth 2x shuriken storm so you can coup > sod > storm > sec tech > storm > coup
hallow night
Another issue I have is lack of combo points in low enough target counts to use second coup with only 1 storm
tepid trellis
inside or outside of dance?
hallow night
It usually takes 2 builders to use 1 finisher outside of blades, inside dance
kind bluff
I thought we stormed between coups no matter what
hazy breach
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
tepid trellis
or on high target AoE
hallow night
A good example would be the pack of 3 spider mobs in dawnbreaker
Storm isn’t enough to generate 6 combo points by itself
Without blades
warm marlin
Another issue I have is lack of combo points in low enough target counts to use ...
you can coup regardless of combo points
kind bluff
Hmmm I read that wrong last time. Damn brain
tepid trellis
in dance, outside of blades you just press shadowstrike
warm marlin
outside of dance/symbols you only have the energy to do coup - 1 builder - coup
kind bluff
Not worth worrying about the loss of unseen blade?
tepid trellis
not outside of blades no
kind bluff
Cool
hallow night
outside of dance/symbols you only have the energy to do coup - 1 builder - coup
I usually drop global for a few seconds to farm enough energy/shadow techniques
As long as I waste no energy and no combo points it seems fine
tepid trellis
if you are outside of dance and coup will time out, just send it at w/e cp you are on
tepid trellis
outside of dance, build to 6+ if you can with storm
then send the 2n coup
inside of dance
DONT
press storm between the coups UNLESS you are inside of shadow blades
hallow night
OK that makes sense
Assuming no shadow blades. It’s m+ aoe pull. You have dance ready and are at 3 stacks of unseen with a proc available.
The correct sequence then is shadow strike >rupture > sod > shadow dance > storm (rotten) > coup > strike > sec tech > strike > coup > strike/bp?
lucid jackal
backstab is skippable in aoe if u want, but ud want to coup > storm > sectec
Every symbols needs a sectec as your first or 2nd finisher
hallow night
I forgor sec tech
I meant to put it after storm
Then the question would be is next builder a storm or strike before second coup
Strike and munch ig
hallow night
Do you rotten during dance or always before dance?
shadow lance
You could even do dance > coup > sod > storm > coup > strike > sectech
hallow night
By rotten I just mean aoe find weakness
wide maple
When im in M+ doing a mini cd rotation, should i sent ST on 2nd spender for more dance macabre? or right away for cd
hallow night
Right away for cd so you can get more
wide maple
so doesnt matter if its at 2 DM?
novel tulip
hey guys how is subtlety single target dps compared to assa and outlaw?
lucid jackal
Worse but barely
hallow night
Dm doesn’t matter as much as other multipliers like perfect form I think. Currently I’m sending at least 2 shadow dances between cds in m+
lucid jackal
All 3 deal bad st
vale pine
hey guys how is subtlety single target dps compared to assa and outlaw?
pure single target is worse in a raid enviroment
tulip token
!wa
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
but for dungeons, we typically got enough burst to perform well on bosses
hallow night
I’m finding I struggle in flood gate as sub and think I’ll prefer assa. A lot of the mobs can be extremely disruptive to your burst rotation
Maybe just need a dk
vale pine
you probably need a bit of practice on subtlety too
its not the easiest to perform well on
tender kettle
I appreciate all your info Fuu, thanks for the guides and stuff ❤️
hallow night
I’ve been practicing on the wrong build so I need to relearn it a bit
vale pine
there is a lot of variation you can do talent wise
hallow night
Took dark brew instead of shadow craft
vale pine
most of the problems come down to simple missmanagement of cooldowns
hmm thats an interessting one
hallow night
It was shindigs recommended starter build for this patch
I’m brand new to rogue so took that
vale pine
i like this one
or
the standard build
ofc you can shift more points around depending on preference
hallow night
I’ll just go rotten instead of finality
vale pine
also fine especially with low crit amounts
neverless, talents aside
one of the big things to learn is cooldown management
try to always get 2x dance and 2x symbols for your 90 sec cooldowns
hallow night
Looking at top logs they tend to double sod on the opener
vale pine
yes
grand viper
Fuu, you recommend the second one you linked?
vale pine
thats where you use your 90 sec cooldowns
grand viper
for starters?
vale pine
i recommend the first one more
because tea is easier to play
you can alter it if you want more single target
grand viper
And this is AOE, or raid
hallow night
I found tea way harder to manage than cold blood
fringe geyser
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
the first one is what i play
because it feels to me better
does not mean it is better
^^
grand viper
Whats the main difference
I see cold blood over thistle
But what does that change rotationally
hallow night
I put a tick on my energy bar so I never spend and waste a tea outside of cds
grand viper
Ah i see, so thats more of a higher key thing?
copper shuttle
I feel like I'm getting 0 value out of the first dance in my keys
vale pine
and both tea and cb is good once you mastered sub
vale pine
I feel like I'm getting 0 value out of the first dance in my keys
thats fine, you only need to have it a few times for it to be good
e.g. in echo dome
you get it on the first pull guranteed
grand viper
is subs dslice sim correct?
vale pine
you likely get it on most bosses
grand viper
for gear
vale pine
is subs dslice sim correct?
dungeon slice is good for gearing yes
hallow night
To absolutely min max tea how much energy do you need to go into a non blades dance without wasting one? I’m assuming you want 2x tea per 90s where possible
grand viper
okay ty
copper shuttle
True true. I wasn't sure if I should be holding for it on my dances outside of blades but it felt awful
vale pine
you get enough energy from symbols to make it mostly irrelevant
hallow night
You still don’t want to use tea while farming cdr with storm and bp outside of dance I’m sure
vale pine
when learning subtlety, focus on your flagellation/shadow blades windows first
try to get 2x symbols, 2x dance, 2x secret every time
hallow night
Yeah I do that consistently
vale pine
and try to use symbols + dance + secret between these 90 sec cooldowns 1-2 times
without losing the mentioned 2x during
hallow night
I can even feel when I can 2x2 without having 2nd dance ready pretty well
vale pine
(without delaying your 90 secs)
thats the important part to learn about subtlety
the rest is small min/max
grand viper
Is there any reason using a sword in my offhand is bad? I come from outlaw and have sword dagger on myth
hallow night
It’s like 30s left on second dance for safety
vale pine
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
vale pine
because its slow
grand viper
FAWK
vale pine
and means you get a lot less procs of shadow techniques
grand viper
God damnit xD
vale pine
offhand is one of the least impactful item slots in the game
grand viper
!gear
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
at least you can cheese some things in dawn
like on the final boss jumping down with the net and shadowstepping back up so the area stays fairly free to move in
versed swift
That ring from dawn is giga
hallow night
OK you mentioned using storm with blades up. In my 2x2 I typically have first dance which means I’m consistently getting sec tec at the very start of the second dance. I will usually have a coup proc within that vicinity, but it varies depending on how many unseen blades I went into combat with. So if coup comes up and it WILL take sec tech off cd, and your actual sod buff is running out within 2s (before sec tec, after first coup). What precise order are you using the sod at? And are you using 2x storm (yes blades up) to not munch for 2nd coup after sec tec? Your sod options are you can either press it early for 1st coup and sec tec, or sec tec and second coup. At least one storm seems good to refresh aoe rotten after long first dance.
vale pine
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
vale pine
#2 and explenation
near monolith
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
hallow night
So 2x is worth it?
vale pine
whats 2x?
hallow night
2x Storm
vale pine
you can, but typically will only use it once
hallow night
The situation is sec tech comes up between coups
vale pine
the coup-secret-coup if possible
hallow night
Send second coup back to back with storm between? You’ll lose cdr on secret
vale pine
you rarely end up in a situation its late in dance
secret is the highest priority of finisher in dance
hallow night
So in coup -secret-coup window you would 2x storm?
hallow night
It happens to me a lot with first night in keys
upbeat escarp
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
upbeat escarp
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
runic hull
hello guys Im quite new to sub in pve, how often or when do you guys ude bp in general? at any moment during cds or only off cds
vale pine
It happens to me a lot with first night in keys
i mean storm fills your cp full
in aoe that is
and also during blades
so i am unsure what you mean with additional storms
without blades
hallow night
We’re assuming blades here for now
vale pine
you won't use storm between coups
median wraith
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hallow night
Basically in extended aoe when I come across a situation where I have coup up and and sec tec comes up from pressing the first one I’m not 100% certain which buttons lead to the most damage in aoe especially
Like I could just munch the unseen blades to get big strikes on 7 targets
But I also want to rotten one storm for find weakness
lethal yew
Can someone look at this log and tell me why me and the other rogues dmg was so different?
I was able to find a some mistakes I made but overall our cd timings were the same. He just did way more sectec and flurry damage.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/7z4RWVtvrb3dyT8k/self?fight=3%2C3&source=3%2C12&type=damage-done
hallow night
Which makes me think coup - sod - storm - sectec - storm - coup could be worth losing 1x flurry shadow strike
lethal yew
And I did miss a sectec at the end about 3:20
hallow night
Basically I want to know every edge case. I want to know precisely which global is best and why so I have confidence in my cds
tepid trellis
Fuu i think he is asking if he should do Coup-storm-sectech-storm-coup in the off chance of not proccing a singular shadowcraft refund
the thing is in that scenario
hallow night
Fuu i think he is asking if he should do Coup-storm-sectech-storm-coup in the of...
No shadow craft used yet. I’ll practice it after work today
tepid trellis
its only actually after the sectech you care
so you would just go coup-strike-sectech-storm-coup
hallow night
Which talent causes that interaction?
runic hull
are the optimal moments to use black powder when there are 3 or more find weeknesses up?
tepid trellis
the thing that makes us care about storming?
its called disorienting strikes
a trickster talent
hallow night
I don’t play with shadow craft yet. I will soon I got baited by shindig
runic hull
are the optimal moments to use black powder when there are 3 or more find weekne...
ora should I incorporate it more in general even in the burst? or not use it at all in burst? Im using the Cold blood build
swift tinsel
use on 4+ targets
glacial kraken
I may ahve accidently sectec'd the reflective shield in priory
vale pine
I may ahve accidently sectec'd the reflective shield in priory
oops
swift tinsel
when sectech is on cd and you don't have coup, use black powder
even in dance/blades
runic hull
when sectech is on cd and you don't have coup, use black powder
thx
hallow night
Also I think I’m over using rupture. At what target count does bp beat spreading rupture to everything in the pack?
swift tinsel
realistically you're rupturing lieutenants or bigger mobs, the lil shitters don't need to get ruptured
if you use a plater profile like Jundies just do the mobs that have a different-colored hp bar
tepid trellis
theoritically if everything lives
shrewd lantern
I may ahve accidently sectec'd the reflective shield in priory
Precloak you noob
tepid trellis
you never stop spreading
hallow night
Like first pull of eco dome has a ton of tanky mobs
That can survive most of a rupture if not all
swift tinsel
ye you'd do the the gorgers and bigger mobs
glacial kraken
Precloak you noob
was on cd when i saw 3 spells coming my way
swift tinsel
and the real big guy
shrewd lantern
and send cds on adds+burn
tepid trellis
sorta
hallow night
How long are you delaying your 90s cds for rupturing things?
swift tinsel
and the warpstalkers later on too bc they dash all over and uptime on them is annoying
tepid trellis
How long are you delaying your 90s cds for rupturing things?
0
swift tinsel
never
shrewd lantern
intermission is funny
swift tinsel
spread as tank gathers, soon as he plants send cds
tepid trellis
i sent 1 dance per intermission
swift tinsel
tricks should keep you alive
shrewd lantern
wouldnt you not have 2 for burn
hallow night
So you’d rupture 1x with flag and send asap
shrewd lantern
if you sent
fallen depot
Anyone got time for a log review?
swift tinsel
if its a shorter gather I usually send 2 ruptures into side mobs then flag+rupture biggest mob
shrewd lantern
feels kinda bad if i miss like
swift tinsel
with rs you get 6 ruptures out that way which is fine
hallow night
Normally I have at least like 5 seconds before everything is stacked right
ionic thorn
So I'm trying to learn sub so I can play it on fights where it makes sense, still fairly new to the spec but did do quite a few pulls on Forgeweaver last night. Would anyone be down for some log review?
shrewd lantern
1 global or sidestepped out of range
swift tinsel
eh give or take, sometimes closer to 8-10
shrewd lantern
just half the damage gone
tepid trellis
i just did 1 dance on pull 2x with my cds at 0:22 in then one dance per add spawn for the next two sets
1 in intermission
then 2x on burn
shrewd lantern
well the no cds set you practically run over to next add spawn
as first dance there is ending
dont you
feels like you get a pause period after first echo dies
then its just back to back adds
tepid trellis
Araz
1x
0:25
2x time for add spawns
2:02
1x on last adds
1x intermission
3:32 amp
thats what i did this week
shrewd lantern
oh yeah
tepid trellis
i got fucked this week
umbral ocean
!guides
tepid trellis
not only did they binding shot the adds in the shit just out of my sectech range
but our tank moved the echo in on the burn phase
as my CB sectech hit
tepid trellis
shit happens, but boss still died
stuck linden
Do you pop netherprisim instantly if it's your only on use? Or wait for the next CD window to get more stacks? Assuming you just rip it.
tepid trellis
so all is goodge
shrewd lantern
i feel having first tank soak on the boss
is so troll
because sometimes step out to not be in it
tepid trellis
we take it out
shrewd lantern
and then, not in nimble range
tepid trellis
the soak goes away
shrewd lantern
literally every pov i watched takes it out
tepid trellis
everybody else stays on boss and kills adds
tepid trellis
Do you pop netherprisim instantly if it's your only on use? Or wait for the next...
you just pop it with your major cooldowns
can sometimes hold it for 3min for bigger burst in case of important adds or dmg amps
ionic thorn
I'm sure there's some fight CD timing optimization I could do but I'm more concerned about general rotation and rotational mistakes, so please destroy me so I can fix it if there are problems 🙂
foggy sphinx
Do you like need netherprism for sub to be good
foggy sphinx
yea i got priory atm so i dont have any trinket really
tepid trellis
yep you basically dont
graceful osprey
Don’t think you “need” netherprisim but I’m sure during the nuke phase it feels good. Sub still does well without netherprisim. I’d say 4pc is a bigger dps impact than prisim probably
deep pivot
!up
wicked joltBOT
glacial hinge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
ionic thorn
prism gud on sin
tepid trellis
which u mostly do in raids
ionic thorn
^
fallow nimbus
can netherprism build stacks when it is on cooldown?
foggy sphinx
only care about keys really
tepid trellis
can netherprism build stacks when it is on cooldown?
yes