subtlety

[leaden prairie]

3 time champ

[azure ember]

!cb bug

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[velvet nova]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[velvet nova]

does this mean that i can switch to assa deathstalker before switching to sub and cb doesnt bug?

[karmic harbor]

is going for pacemaker worth it?

[karmic harbor]

this works sometimes yeah

[maiden oar]

how grim is sub on this guy

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden oar]

i fight on thursday and i REALLY dont want to play sin

and im not good enough at outlaw to play outlaw and have it outweigh the gear diff

[tepid trellis]

one of the worst specs, but dmg shouldnt really be an issue on it

[velvet nova]

pretend you're playing single target. if you dont die the boss dies

[tepid trellis]

sub and assa are about the same on it

from what i could tell from data

[maiden oar]

i see

i want to learn outlaw but this is my 2nd patch raiding and with the gear situation being as it is w/ diff main hand and stats i havent had a chance to play outlaw in prog

i will make it my goal to learn outlaw before midnight

but i guess ill just go sub for soul guys

[solemn lodge]

subs telling me hc araz doesnt go over antenna, do i just still take it and go double on use with lily?

[olive canyon]

If you dont have access to a Mythic raid loot, and you get a heroic Araz and antenna - what do you do long term?

[shadow lance]

Nice Vault

Everything is a fcking downgrade

[turbid edge]

Is there anything we can do or they can do to prevent this? My pally tank killed me the other day like this. I took 7.5m from his tempered

[shadow lance]

Not playing with Pal tanks

I don't know tbh

[turbid edge]

Oh. Lol

Is it ok to macro lily and tempered potion to my shadow blades instead of manually using both before dance/backstab in full cds? Seems like it's a very small gain

[shadow lance]

It's ok

You can always macro lily on it

Tempered, I got a macro with and a macro without

[turbid edge]

And in m+ AOE, I should always be targeting my fazed target right? Worth doing something to set focus to backstab/shadow strike target because that will always be fazed if I happen to target something else?

[dusk stone]

should i be top parse for salad bar in heroic?

a lizard is currently beating me

[stiff pollen]

have you guys experienced an issue with cold blood secret tech macro? Seems like sometimes it does not use cold blood until relogging

[dusk stone]

fatebound bug

[shadow lance]

Just be sure target is fazed for coup

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[shadow lance]

^ @stiff pollen

[stiff pollen]

aight thank you! also love seeing hotfixes article and not having single of the rogue bugs fixed 🤣

[pastel rampart]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[solemn lodge]

is there a guide of how to use double on use trinket

[leaden sail]

hey is there any way to trace when this procs? found some info from season 1 that there is nothing in combat log and that proc can not be traced

https://i.imgur.com/lUn59zA.png

[hollow spear]

It's too fight dependent to really make a guide for it. You can look up Hachadinos spreadsheet for some general guidance though. It's on his profile.

[limpid sage]

anyone know if hpalas play with blessing of autumn anymore?

[leaden sail]

our was last week

[haughty mural]

They skill summer and cycle through the seasons right?

[turbid edge]

Is there a specific part of guide that explains flawless form? I have to coup a fazed target to get it and it's just a 15% dmg amp for 12 seconds to finishers? And why is it that I prio evisc over bp with it

[tepid trellis]

cuz it hits harder than Eviscerate does

and gives you 5 stacks per cast of coup

of flawless form

[hollow spear]

You should read the tool tips of your hero tree

That explains a lot

[tepid trellis]

sometimes resulting in a hell of alot of flawless form stacks

[hollow spear]

No flame though, but I'm of the opinion you should read what your skills do on top of reading a guide. Will help you understand the why.

[tepid trellis]

you quite often in flag burst sit around 20+ stacks which is 60% finisher dmg

quite fakin strong

[hollow spear]

How does that even interact with mastery?

Is that its own multi or additive?

[tepid trellis]

well its calculated after your mastery

[turbid edge]

Ty I'll do that. And with those stacks of flawless, I prioritize evisc in 1-2 targets and bp in 3+?

[tepid trellis]

bp on 4 or more

[hollow spear]

I'm still too evis pilled

[tepid trellis]

finisher prio on single target = sectech-coup-evis
finisher prio on aoe 4 or more targets = sectech-coup-bp-evis

[vagrant thorn]

what about find weakness? :p do I have to pay attention to that thing or is it just gonna happen on its own 🙂

[hollow spear]

Need to bp more

[tepid trellis]

it kinda just plays itself

[hollow spear]

Try to be behind your target in st

[tepid trellis]

its only the people that are stuck in last season like myself that plays rotten and uses a storm to apply FW to everything

[maiden oar]

its still only correct to backstab the front of a boss to consume premed if fw is already up right

if theres a mech that stops you from being behind them

or is that no longer the case

[tepid trellis]

yes

[maiden oar]

ok cool

[tepid trellis]

no fw = no backstab

[vagrant thorn]

what then? shuriken single target? 😛

[hollow spear]

I think the sim didn't even care, but I still don't backstab without bs

[maiden oar]

wait is it not positional

ive only been doing no fw = no backstab when in front

but when behind should i also skip it

[hollow spear]

You get fw from shadowstrike

[tepid trellis]

well you gamble on backstab critting

[maiden oar]

oh ok we love gambling

[tepid trellis]

but if you are behind the boss

it will be up

from just backstab spamming

[hollow spear]

There's always some gambling involved

[tepid trellis]

before cds

[maiden oar]

i see

last question

[vagrant thorn]

what if there's no back to get behind

[hollow spear]

I think you'd have to be a robot to react to all buffs

[maiden oar]

in a theoretical situation where ur in sprocket and ur color swaps and u go from in front of him to behind him and theres no fw

[limpid sage]

Rotten master race once again

[maiden oar]

would you backstab

or shadowstrike

[acoustic matrix]

How do you guys approach CD usage in M+ ? Like if a pack is midlife and Flag comes back, do you send it or do you go symbols dance and save flag for next pack ?

[tepid trellis]

if i feel like gambling im pressing stab

[maiden oar]

ty

[tepid trellis]

also depends on your ShT stacks

[hollow spear]

I think these questions are mostly irrelevant

[tepid trellis]

if you know you get a refund after sectech

im striking

[maiden oar]

probably but i like to press every button with confidence

it feels good

[hollow spear]

I see so many 0.05% dps improvement questions here, this chat must be filled with only 100 parsers

[limpid sage]

I mean it kinda is

[hollow spear]

Nah

[limpid sage]

I recognize like 8 names in here on lorrgs xd

[maiden oar]

i am #1 dps in the world on soulbinder

but im not that good all the time

[vagrant thorn]

true, I was inspecting some 100 log and it was filled with mistakes and zero optimizations, we're just wasting time with this crap

[maiden oar]

i need to improve to be that good all the time

[turbid edge]

I am #1 too. ||From the bottom||

[tepid trellis]

so much more goes into parsing than playing 100% correctly

[hollow spear]

There's a handful of guys I'd trust to be consistent with it

[shadow lance]

Stealthi, you not playing rotten anymore?

[maiden oar]

yeah i care less about parsing than i do improving and doing things correctly

i feel like if i focus on improving and being better parsing will happen

[tepid trellis]

in keys i do

[limpid sage]

Also feels nice on soulbinder

And forgemaestro

[maiden oar]

i want to one day be so good that i never doubt a single global

[shadow lance]

Rotten/CB/Replicating ?

[tepid trellis]

rotten tea rep

[hollow spear]

Great aspiration, will never happen 😅

[shadow lance]

Oh, you're a tea enjoyer?

[tepid trellis]

i used to be there as well then i joined the darkside of private logging

[hollow spear]

Cb feels good if stuff lives

[maiden oar]

thats true but chasing it will make me stronger

[hollow spear]

Nothing worse than a cb into three low health prio mobs that survived the group's burst

[maiden oar]

and one day ill be so strong because of it

[cinder axle]

I guess its a socket right? :D:D

[tepid trellis]

how would we know?

[hollow spear]

Idk, I should worry less about my rotation than optimising around the fight

[shadow lance]

Warpclaw is that bad?

[cinder axle]

I got prism and crystal

[maiden oar]

yeah i think having that confidence is about both

[limpid sage]

warpclaw is nice

[cinder axle]

and boots i already have the hero from soulhunter

[maiden oar]

im having so much fun getting better at this game though i have alot to learn

wow owns

[hollow spear]

You getting 0.5% more theoretical value from your rotation is worth so much less than playing the fight right

[tepid trellis]

[maiden oar]

yea

[limpid sage]

doesn't mean you shouldn't do those optimizations

[maiden oar]

but i just want to learn to be better so i have to learn both

bc i like improving

[cinder axle]

Is it?

[limpid sage]

same thing with the backstab tech

why worry over 1% dps when you haven't fully optimized every boss fight

[cinder axle]

i want Prism and Forge and already have the Prism + Crystal

and i mainly play m+

[maiden oar]

i think you worry about whatever you have control over

ideally in an order that wont hamstring ur growth

[limpid sage]

yeah was a rhetorical question

[maiden oar]

oh hehe im dumb

[limpid sage]

nw only makes sense if you read my previous comment xd

[maiden oar]

i read it im just sleep deprived

[leaden prairie]

you private logging ?

gg

lost all respect

[tepid trellis]

if i had the choice i wouldnt

[maiden oar]

why do guilds private log

[leaden prairie]

boring idk

[maiden oar]

ive only been in 2 guilds in my life

[limpid sage]

so people don't focus on parses

[maiden oar]

so i dont really know anything but neither one has ever brought it up

[limpid sage]

and so people don't scoop their players

[tepid trellis]

personally i dont actually care if we do or not

[maiden oar]

i see

[tepid trellis]

parsing is kinda dead to me

[maiden oar]

id figure if i cared about parses itd be for recruitment reasons

and if that was the case the recruiter guys can still see your priv.logs if you give them access

[limpid sage]

lots of stealing other players at higher world ranks

[maiden oar]

but the poaching thing makes sense

[dusk stone]

yeah it must feel so bad

[tepid trellis]

poaching will happen regardless of public logs or not

[maiden oar]

although id like to imagine if i ran a guild id be confident my guys would stay and if they wouldnt id be glad they were happier elsewhere

[dusk stone]

you end up being a place max farms the good players out of

[limpid sage]

yeah I mean the truly high world ranks it won't matter

[tepid trellis]

everything goes by word of mouth anyway

[leaden prairie]

farm is omega bornig without public logs

[limpid sage]

but I'd imagine it matters in the 100-500

[leaden prairie]

also i find the gatekeeping of information rather cringe

[limpid sage]

I almost got poached on my warr and we were just wr 1k lol

[leaden prairie]

but oh well

[limpid sage]

same for our rogue

[tepid trellis]

me from 2-3 years ago would agree

[maiden oar]

i have never been poached im too noob hehe

[tepid trellis]

but now only thing i actually give a shit about in wow is progress

and when farm comes, id rather just play other games

[maiden oar]

but if i was a rl id just like be ok with people leaving if their needs werent being met with my guild

so i guess i dont get that eithet

maybe if u only care wr u want ur best guys to stay

[turbid edge]

Stealthi are u playing any other classes right now? Any u find very enjoyable?

[tepid trellis]

elemental and havoc

[turbid edge]

Oooh yeah havoc is looking so good right now

[leaden prairie]

ok but the once a week you have to login

i would rather its enjoyable

[agile osprey]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

well the guys i play with is what makes it enjoyable

not me going for parses

[maiden oar]

at the top end is private logging more common than public

[tepid trellis]

yes

[maiden oar]

ah ok

[humble aspen]

whats better - take champ track tier head that is 20 ilvl increase, then catalyse 2 hero pieces. Or take hero hands and catalyse 3 hero pieces. Both end with 4 set bonus

[maiden oar]

i wonder how many private loggers are just absolutely gapping me

[marble thistle]

Dont take champ

[maiden oar]

kinda cool to think about

[turbid edge]

Hero > champ and u can easily farm all hero in m+

[tepid trellis]

put it this way yeah, there are very very very very few guild in top 50 world that public logs

some do full private all the time

[humble aspen]

yeah was leaning hero, but wasnt sure if saving a catalsyt charge for potential mythic track tier conversion next week

[tepid trellis]

and some do private on prog, then public on farm (my old guild used to do this)

[maiden oar]

makes sense

[tepid trellis]

oh wrong tag mb doof

[maiden oar]

i have alot to improve on then

[marble thistle]

Nw, ly ❤

[maiden oar]

naively assumed public guys were the ceiling

granted ofc good logs dont make you a good player

and being a good player is infinitely more desirable than having good logs

but you get the idea

[tepid trellis]

also some tiers just turn fully degenerate when it comes to parsing

and it just takes the fun out

[maiden oar]

was lou like that

thats my only other tier ive done

so my only real point of reference

[tepid trellis]

it wasent that bad when they fixed all the cheese parsing

[maiden oar]

ah ok

[tepid trellis]

only fight that was kinda cringe was gally

[maiden oar]

yeah i swapped from sub to sin on late ce gally prog

[queen kraken]

do you guys use some custom apl for raidbot sims due to netherprism/ritual?

[maiden oar]

bc the adds got munched so fast

so i played for boss dam

[tepid trellis]

nope, just sim latest

[leaden prairie]

the new blizz thing with +3% every week

[tepid trellis]

YES

THAT

[leaden prairie]

kinda make parsing annoying

[tepid trellis]

can FUCK OFF

[leaden prairie]

im ngl

[tepid trellis]

thats when i stopped giving a shit

[leaden prairie]

i sometimes maange to get all r1s at once

[tepid trellis]

in nerubar

[leaden prairie]

and then

[maiden oar]

yeah i dont like the buff

[leaden prairie]

have to do it all again

every 2 weeks

idk man

leave me alone

please on god

[tepid trellis]

yep big up on that

[queen kraken]

stealthi whats ur take on prism+ritual vs antenna + prism? is it more a timing thing like it works out on f.e. araz with two on use or is it more a accessability thingy?

[tepid trellis]

fight dependant

[sly shore]

Hi @leaden prairie

[maiden oar]

turbo boost made me so sad as a new raider

the fights just fell over

glad im getting to them earlier this season

raid buff etc too

[queen kraken]

in which ones would u use double on use vs antenna + prism ( i guess? even for fb assa) ? kinda trying to improve on my raiding :-x

[rare sedge]

with ritual is it a thing to CB+SecTec directly and not delaying for 2nd cuz of the trinket fall off? or just delay always

[maiden oar]

for last 2 do you think heroic forge > myth antenna

bc of the movement requirements and the value from buffed flag

[tepid trellis]

yes

[maiden oar]

ty

[honest yacht]

Is it possible to see how many procs you get from antenna in warcraftlogs? I have only found the amount of times it buffed me

[tepid trellis]

eh prolly soulbinder-araz-nexus-dimensius

[onyx dawn]

Can anyone advise on a middle ground?

I raid, but also do a lot of M+

Sim on 5t 5mins AOE recommends these gems..
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1QmWmteVNgm823ZrHVHLCS

Sim on 1t 5mins ST recommnds these gems..
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7ff2bWZuRoK6Zb6pSWfxHG

Or is it just a case of going 1/2 and 1/2 in my sockets and loosing the difference in whatever content Im doing?

[shadow lance]

Don't overthink gems

[limpid sage]

I might actually have to send vault on spark this week

that's a first

wait are mythic boes a thing yet?

[clever delta]

Soulbinder is probably not double on use

As adds spawn in 2min

[leaden prairie]

hi kpb ml pawnkster

how its goign

[bleak night]

damn sap said stealthi doesnt know wtf hes talking about

[turbid edge]

Stealthi I'm new to sub and read your guide. In m+ when tank is gathering, why do u evisc after first shadow strike then spread ruptures? Wouldn't I just want to go straight to spreading ruptures so I can immediately burst once gathered? How many ruptures do I do until I flag?

[shadow lance]

To get SnD Running

[upbeat sorrel]

for snd

[shadow lance]

And you just spread until pull is gathered

[turbid edge]

And if running already from previous pull, I skip?

[shadow lance]

Yep

[sly shore]

pgud wbu

[turbid edge]

Ok perfect ty all

[onyx dawn]

What about the weapon enchants?

Off hand is Oathsworn in ST and Stonebound in AOE

I believe the guide just says stick with Oathsworn? Or is just trying to fix my stats

[dusk stone]

what gives us snd?

[turbid edge]

Evisc does

[tepid trellis]

you also delay your first set of cds until first cannister

[leaden prairie]

goood good, im really enjoying nexug king prog rn, i love the boss

[sly shore]

I never thought I'd say this, but I am enjoying soul hunters

[shadow lance]

Vers got the best "all type of situation" value

[sly shore]

[leaden prairie]

ok weirdo

[sly shore]

best council boss they've made in years fr

[tepid trellis]

[shadow lance]

For exemple, I'm running Deadly Sapphire, vers enchant and Oathsworn

[sly shore]

minus it being unplayable with too many melee ofc

but that's fine

[shadow lance]

Cuz I'm already at the DR for mastery and not yet for vers

[clever delta]

Yes idk how to utilise forge there

[supple verge]

lets go

[maiden oar]

how do u see that

[supple verge]

/bw

[maiden oar]

also congrats

[shadow lance]

But if you wanna follo sim, use Dslice, it will be the most accurate for mixed content @onyx dawn

But it should not matter a lot for sub, cuz stats are the same for all type of content

Don't hesitate to redcon me, guides writers

[leaden prairie]

1 fps random bullshit spells everywhere

eh

idk

[onyx dawn]

Oh wasnt sure if dungeon slice was working for Rogue, ill give it a try

[shadow lance]

It does mate

Like a charm

[sly shore]

I don't have 1 fps

the only bullshit spell is the frontal spawn if it spawns on puddles

and is borderline invisible

[maiden oar]

do you use elvui

dev build for elvui gave me a ton of fps

they fixed some aura stuff idk what exactly

[sly shore]

we don't use elvui

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[sly shore]

because elvui is a plague

[maiden oar]

nvm tjen

im too noob to configure my own ui i just use atrocity

0 think

[sly shore]

elvui stinky poopy

default ui goat

[maiden oar]

yeah i will happily use default ui when blizz does whatever theyre planning to do

i was default ui guy in the mmo i came here from

but at the time i joined addon/ui stuff was overwhelming so i installed atrocitys stuff

[steep glacier]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[onyx dawn]

@shadow lance appreciate it mate

[shadow lance]

You're welcome

[celest sky]

Is there any way to make a macro, where if im in a shadow dance moment it will use secret technique, but if im not it will use eviscerate? Like you could with outlaw in DF

[copper shuttle]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[jaunty harbor]

How much better is Netherprism trinket than the rest of the top trinkets?

[shadow lance]

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:2] Secret Technique; Eviscerate

But I don't get the use

[leaden prairie]

lucky you !

[sly shore]

upgrade ur pc

I'm going to be doing that by the end of the year

[leaden prairie]

dont think my pc is an issue really

i have a 7800x3d

[sly shore]

not 9800x3d it's so over for u lol

[leaden prairie]

ye real

i think imma skip a gen tho

wait for the 10800x3d

[clever delta]

I have 7800 and ultra wide 2k monitor and im fine

[leaden prairie]

when is that

next year maybe

[sly shore]

I have a 5950x how do you have low fps

[leaden prairie]

get to work amd

[leaden prairie]

idk ..

[steel zinc]

in raid 30 man I think nearly no one has constant 100fps +

like thats how the game just is

[clever delta]

Maybe he slow rams / ssd disk

[leaden prairie]

you guys have 100fps in 20 man?

[steel zinc]

ya

[sly shore]

still on ddr4?

[leaden prairie]

wild

no im on 5

i think

[sly shore]

[tacit coral]

u are zac

[leaden prairie]

idk actually

[tacit coral]

cant be on the new cpu without it

[leaden prairie]

i think i dnt have a hoice

ye

[sly shore]

was gonna say

[tacit coral]

i think its just an issue of the game no way a 7800x3d gets outperformed by 5950x right?

[sly shore]

maybe zac has too many addons loaded

[shadow lance]

Weird, same proc and not issues on hunters

[leaden prairie]

[steel zinc]

no its on his end

[clever delta]

Maybe your computer is just bloated with all that p*rn you downloaded on shady websites

[steel zinc]

maybe overheating

[sly shore]

raider.io using all his gigglebits

[shadow lance]

But on king, My game dies

[sly shore]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1kgp7ar/cause_and_solution_to_windows_24h2_related/

smile

[shadow lance]

Like first pulsing AoE, I'm at 20 fps

[vale pine]

holy hell, thats annoying

[sly shore]

100% but the solution does actually work

and I trust it because nvidia included it in release documentation

literally a link to the reddit thread lmao

[white siren]

this cycle is 2 on Flag + SB, then 1 out of CDs, then again 2 with CDs ?

[shadow lance]

No, it's CD's - 2 dance - CD's - 1 dance - CD's - 2 dance - CD's - 1 dance

The "-" are the CD's double dance windows

[sly shore]

don't we have enough cdr now to fit 2

[shadow lance]

Depends

[sly shore]

at least that's what I've found

[maiden oar]

ty

[shadow lance]

You can't be 100% sure

[sly shore]

I can

[leaden prairie]

do we care

[sly shore]

I am very smart

[shadow lance]

depending fight mech and proc

[leaden prairie]

its jsut for chromium apps

right

[sly shore]

no

well yes

but it causes issues with other apps

if you have chromium apps open

[maiden oar]

i feel like in full patchwerk i can go flag into 2x dance 3 times in a row if i dont do the naked symbols after first flag

[sly shore]

and guess what is a chromium app zac

[maiden oar]

maybe ive been lucky every time

[sly shore]

you'll never guess

[leaden prairie]

well discord

[sly shore]

all browsers except firefox too

[leaden prairie]

and any web browser

ye

[white siren]

what ? between your double dance with flag + SB, you can't have same cycle ?

[sly shore]

it most definitely is a fix

[leaden prairie]

ye but for what

[sly shore]

random freezes

[maiden oar]

last patch you didnt have enough cdr to 2x dance between every flag (symbols also has a static cd)

[leaden prairie]

in the chromium app tho

[sly shore]

no

in wow

[maiden oar]

this patch i think you might be able to 2x dance after 2nd flag but im not sure if thats always the case or if im lucky

[leaden prairie]

or idk thats hwat they are describing or

hmge

dude kieron

[sly shore]

it's causes by the chromium apps dropping fps

[queen kraken]

i think they wrote that u run out of symbols down the line at some point but that sounded like u needed 8min+ fights without downtimes etc

[leaden prairie]

i had my firsts reloads this reset

you know how like

the game just /reload seemingly

[maiden oar]

yea thats what i meant by static cd

[leaden prairie]

i never had it happen

till this week

[sly shore]

apply that fix

[maiden oar]

but also you have to farm dance cdr which was harder in 11.1

[shadow lance]

Just told above, it's not 100% garanty

[sly shore]

🤝

[leaden prairie]

had it happen twice

so cringe

[maiden oar]

ok im insanely lucky then

[leaden prairie]

legit 20s freeze

[shadow lance]

And it's only in patchwerk

[sly shore]

yes

do what that reddit thread says

[leaden prairie]

ye

ok

[white siren]

so, so between flags you do 2 dance, then 1, 2, 1, etc.

[maiden oar]

yea

[shadow lance]

ye

BUT

[sly shore]

You can also try DirectX 11
and turning this off in nvidia control panel if you have an nvidia gpu, else it'll likely randomly go back to DX12

[maiden oar]

changes in fights u dont flag on cd

so u have to cook a bit

[sly shore]

Also maybe turning off "Optional GPU features" in graphics settings at the bottom might help, but unconfirmed.

[light cypress]

forgive me if i sound stupid here but if there's a good chance that you farm enough cdr to be able to go 2-2-2-2-.... wont you waste cdr everytime you go for 1-2-1 if you get the "good rng cycle"?

or do we just ignore htat

[white siren]

yeah like soulbinder, flag timing is a bit weird

[shadow lance]

That's why you have to manage your cdr

[sly shore]

Also

[maiden oar]

yea

soulbinder is so funny on sub

[shadow lance]

If you got a lot of cdr, use a dance

[sly shore]

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth```
Remember to run these in order in admin powershell every now and then so windows is happy

https://x.com/Peterodox/status/1954440373406703763?t=o9ZgY99NF-nH5lbU-zCMhQ&s=19

Peter Yu (@Peterodox)

Maybe give this a try?
https://t.co/4MVCK8zaAG

I'll provide more info later

X · Aug 10, 2025, 7:11 AM

also this

[shadow lance]

But, be carefull not using too much cuz SoD got a static cd

[sly shore]

tech support kpb

[white siren]

from what i checked and understood, you do not flag on pull, you wait for first set of adds, then flag on the full prison release right ?

[shadow lance]

And you absolutley need 1 stack and 10 sec remaining on the next cd for the blades widonws

[maiden oar]

this could be wrong and a tc could correct me but if im flagging every 1m30s on full patchwerk (only fractillus this tier i think) i wouldnt feel comfortable sending naked symbols after first flag in case of extra cdr after second flag

[maiden oar]

i have a mrt note for you 1 sec

[lilac stag]

This stabilized texture lag/crashes for me on a 4080

[maiden oar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1345546672469708801/1410125170747772959/image.png?ex=68afe0e7&is=68ae8f67&hm=c4f877eccf38b773a1ec73b7a3a44a646617a8ea565f9e1425084ae52b523add&

i think i did 4 dances between flag 2 and 3

and didnt follow the note

[plush glen]

Could someone link a resource or explain when to build with shuriken storm vs shadowstrike as trickster? Do you shadowstrike regardless of target count if coup is off cd?

[maiden oar]

but id have to check rq

[shadow lance]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

Strike in dance. That’s it.

[white siren]

flag timing is the one to make sure is good with 2 dances ready, between you cook dance to not cap at 2 right ?

[turbid edge]

All of that stuff u posted could help fix the random 5 sec freezes when a fight or mechanic starts?

[shadow lance]

More or less

[maiden oar]

no i did indeed do 3 of them

[sly shore]

Yes

[shadow lance]

Sitting on 2 stacks of dance isn't good

[maiden oar]

yea flag u back to back dance

but u usually enter flag with 1 dance charge and 30s-37s cd on the next charge

[shadow lance]

^ Listen to this man

[maiden oar]

sometimes its not like that but it almost always is

[lilac stag]

1.5 dances, 1.4 sods before going into big cds

[white siren]

yeah only at pull you enter flag with 2 charges, otherwise it is dps loss

[sly shore]

100% kisses too

[maiden oar]

depends

if you dont lose a cast of dance or if a later dance is more than double value of a previous dance somehow it can be ok to shift them around

but honestly do not worry about it

almost never happens

[leaden prairie]

ty cuh

appreciate it

[shadow lance]

A dance give you 30-40 sec cdr on next dance

[maiden oar]

but its good to come into a fight with an idea of how many dances you will be able to press and the best spots to put them and if you dont lose dances you can tweak the rules a bit

like i think i sat on 2x charges for a second in soulbinder

im not sure off the top of my head how long i was at 2 but it was fine bc i wasnt down a dance in the end

[shadow lance]

So you can send a dance if you are at 2 stacks and flag is 10-15 sec left

[lilac stag]

Did you run the OP fix listed, or did you do the commented adjustments as well?

[leaden prairie]

@sly shore

[sly shore]

ONLY THE op

only the OP

[leaden prairie]

ONLY the OP

[lilac stag]

Only

[weak magnet]

Are you guys playing Duplicating Shadows in M+? Ruptureing without it feels so weird

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/halloween-spookyposting-spooky-1984-jorjor-wel-gif-1464064706030337489

[sly shore]

smile

[lilac stag]

Just don’t rupture. EZ

[maiden oar]

yea i love it

people who are better at m+ than me also run it

but if you love tornado you can do tornado

[pearl token]

Do we have to rupture every mob in aoe as sub ?

[maiden oar]

its good value per combo point if the monster lives long enough (forgot exact duration)

but doing a dance or a flag is better value per combo point

so its kind of a balance where you want to spread enough but still get good burst

like in low keys you dont get to do alot of ruptures

[weak magnet]

I actually dislike nado.

[maiden oar]

i wish there was an easy rule for it but its a feeling thing

im still not optimal w ruptures

[weak magnet]

ruprutes are nice while gathering the pack

[maiden oar]

yea

[weak magnet]

and in bewteen CDs

[lilac stag]

Using your CDs is more important than spreading rupture. Mobs are grouped and you can dance you go.

[maiden oar]

can also start flag and storm rupture a few times to ramp up the mastery buff before going into blades and dance

[weak magnet]

but Replicatiing Shadows without Darkbrew fees weird aswell 😄

[maiden oar]

but it desyncs flag and blades cds which can be annoying

[shadow lance]

+/- 12 sec if I remember well

[maiden oar]

ok i trust you

[lilac stag]

Yeah not worth the desync imo

[shadow lance]

I hate the desync

[maiden oar]

i dont mind it but its funny if i forget

[shadow lance]

I just forget I desync

[lilac stag]

So just bp if shit near dead

[weak magnet]

can we somehow pick Darkbrew and reprilcating shadows by tropping nado and something ?

[lilac stag]

Play assa if you want to dot stuff

[shadow lance]

Assa is bugged 🙁

[lilac stag]

So is sub

Welcome to rogue

[weak magnet]

assa ST in M+ ist just 😴

[shadow lance]

Yeah, but sub=bug

[lilac stag]

We just don’t throw a fit like next door

[vale pine]

i mean there is also a fine line to lable somehting as intentional or bug

e.g. i am still unsure if the mastery of assassiantion should work on all nature damage

[shadow lance]

You can drop 1 point in death perception, but I would not recommend

[vale pine]

what is seen as how it is supposed to work

[pearl token]

So we are just waiting mob to be pack using rupture and then going all cd, reapplying rupture between cds ?

[shadow lance]

correct

If rupture isn't worth on target, you BP/Evis

[lilac stag]

Basically yes. Try to look at the key as one big boss encounter. Don’t sit on CDs where you’re going to lose casts

CDR in keys is pretty quick and you can get back into dance fast

But also miss that if you’re too rupture spreading focused

[pearl token]

I feel like sub is ultra hard i need to practice on dummies.

[lilac stag]

Dummies are for learning rotation.

Not how to think

[steep glacier]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shadow lance]

Thinking is hard

Not pressing 16 buttons in the right order every 90 sec

[lilac stag]

problem in keys is people want everything setup on boss like it’s their opener. That’s rarely the case.

We get shit from lust so who cares if you have CDs on pull.

[steep glacier]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[shadow lance]

Btw, I've been flamed for asking tank to put adds on boss cuz i was sitting my blades

They're used to play with sin, it's painfull

That always complain "Gngngng my restealth"

[lilac stag]

I mean assa wants all the adds on boss

[shadow lance]

Didn't say tanks were good

I know assa pref adds on bosses

But they're matrixed by the restealth complain

[vale pine]

okay my hot take for today to anger some assasisantion folks

[lilac stag]

I’m not sure the point you’re making. Sorry

[shadow lance]

I feel more frustrating the no chain pull as sub than other specs of the game btw

[vale pine]

assassiantion has great defensives, as it has no cost for feint spam due to how energy becomes a irrelevant ressource in aoe

[lilac stag]

Why? Let me get TFD. Me love you.

[vale pine]

it is mostly bad because it got its auto cleave nerfed and you have boss fights which are long single target sequences

[shadow lance]

Just saying Assa new player complains about restealth when tank chain pulls, so tank are afraid to do it

[vale pine]

and by bad, i mean still overall good

my stance of restealth is why i got flamed by some folks

because i did say they have impact on your output

[shadow lance]

I don't like sit on cds cuz tank want to kill 10% hp mobs

[vale pine]

tho at the same time don't matter much

[lilac stag]

Oh no, I had to use one of my two charges of vanish to auto spread garrote and rupture.

[shadow lance]

Soz Fuu, I don't get what you mean?

[spring elm]

It does feel bad when you don’t get a restealtg. Not as bad for dps as it feels though lol

[lilac stag]

Gods forbid we as ask the assa rogue to manage vanish charges

[vale pine]

tl;dr: people don't understand that restealth can be benefitial and still don't matter.
So they read a message in assassination or watch a video and get the impression that there is no damage loss if you don't get restealths.

The reality is, there is absolutely a damage loss, but you also speed up the key by not introducing waiting time which overall makes the impact low/ignorable.

its the same with tfd

you absolutely do more damage if you get tfd for every pull

but you also slow down the key because the tank needs to wait between pulls

[shadow lance]

Yeah, that's the issue

[lilac stag]

Dragging the single mob into a new pack at 5% health feels bad for both specs, and you can play around it.

[shadow lance]

Idc about my personnal damages

[lilac stag]

Assa loves having 3-4 pulled into next pack

[shadow lance]

Wanna speed up the key and not sitting on cd's

[lilac stag]

You’re pre juiced from dots

[shadow lance]

Maybe I just manage my dances badly ?

Prolly

[spring elm]

Yeah there’s definitely a wrong way to chain pull where you might as well wait a second to let the rogue get stealth

[shadow lance]

The only wrong way to chain pull is not chaining when dangerous targets are dead

Chaining at 5-10% mobs hp? useless

[main wave]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Do I save 20 seconds on the pack and gets cds up sooner or do I save 20 seconds on boss waiting on cds with trash.

Get shit dead as fast as possible.

imo

[short radish]

i vanish when there's 40 mill health left on the pack

and it looks like the tank is chaining

[lilac stag]

Perfect

[hollow spear]

There's a point where I stop sending, but usually people hold too long

[maiden oar]

sneaky guy

[shadow lance]

Don't want to kill pack and having dance runing

But yeah

[short radish]

the hardest decision is "do i send a flag that gets half use, or do i send a dance+symbols and then screw my next flag"

[spring elm]

I think tornados use it to help make up for mistakes. If you dance/ST too much and have flag coming up it helps take it off CD

[lilac stag]

Desyncjng flag and blades because of rupturing also on my list

[short radish]

i think it's also not as bad with prism

if you delay flag a bit

especially with the cdr affix this week

[lilac stag]

prism will desync

[short radish]

prism is so good for it

[lilac stag]

Did you have a good vault?

[graceful osprey]

I’m 697 simming at 3mil dps…does that seem low or is that correct? I have 4pc but none of the new BiS trinkets

[short radish]

yeah

[lilac stag]

Oh snap

[short radish]

game feels 10x better with prism

[maiden oar]

big money

i hope im not pulling dimmy with champ prism

[short radish]

🤞

[lilac stag]

Any prism is good

[shadow lance]

🤮

[maiden oar]

yea but im greedy

only the best for me

ill accept champ prism if its like that though

[placid elk]

sub with 4 set is really fun in m+

[muted birch]

dont know what to chose 😅

[terse wolf]

im so mad

[muted birch]

the head is with socket

[terse wolf]

i guess i should be happy with the chest

but my priest friend pulled so many good stuff

[muted birch]

yup, myth track chest

[maiden oar]

yea myth tier is good

[muted birch]

Im thinking between anubusiath trinket and tier head with socket

[hidden oar]

should we pop 2x ST during first dance SD if we will manage to do so or not really?

[terse wolf]

sim time

[muted birch]

yup

time to sim

[maiden oar]

yea

if you do 2nd dance before clones hit it buffs them

if first times out

[hidden oar]

ok thanks

[terse wolf]

is dungeon slice a good profile for sub in sims or nuh

[sly shore]

yes for dungeons

use it for gearing

ignore number

[terse wolf]

yeas number is ignored of course, just for gear picking

[muted birch]

raid bots, raid bots on the website tell me, which item is the greatest

[tribal blade]

the classic taking a photo of your screen with your phone boomer vibes

[muted birch]

'touch grass'

thats not the answer I was looking for

[prime stratus]

hey quick questin for the sub pros is it still a gain to use BS once at the start of dacen for the extra Dance Macabre Stack when we are playing the Rotten? you loose one stack in it right?

[maiden oar]

if you want you can go like

dance -> backstab -> symbols

and then it doesnt consume rotten

i remember a theorycrafter saying it didnt matter much and might not even be a gain

[prime stratus]

thanks a buchn ill try and see if i break my fingers

[muted birch]

you could use a macro for SD

with another activation to cast BS

[maiden oar]

but dont quote me on that

[muted birch]

helped me a lot

[raw wadi]

did i miss the discussion about The Rotten vs Weaponmaster?

[tribal blade]

it's not a big enough deal to worry about pretty much

[maiden oar]

yeah i do it bc im used to it

but i also accidentally do it without the rotten too often

sob sob

[void ocean]

finally got Forge... doesnt feel much of an upgrade comparing to pvp trink tbh

~22k dps

prism still way better

[steep raven]

Should I pick up anything here?

[muted birch]

for me it showed ring to be better upgrade than set helm with socket and myth track trinket

[hidden oar]

oh also about that is it worth to just buff clones? I think we wont be able to cast ST during that 2nd dance, probably wont get it off cd

[karmic harbor]

been watching casual do some m+, and he's playing with cb

[maiden oar]

you dont really get 3 sectechs in those 2 dances ever

so as long as both are buffed its fine

like if your second one is first hit in first dance and clone hit in second dance the entire things buffed

you lose some danse stacks but last i checked the recommendation is still send asap

[marble sail]

so guys, question about 2x on-use, just got this in vault and wondering exactly how do we play around the 2x on-use?
netherprism at 4m?

[maiden oar]

flawless form probably cancels it out

[tribal blade]

the chinese sub rogues are running tea and so am i

[next otter]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[maiden oar]

what do you think of the rotten

[tribal blade]

it's good in keys

[maiden oar]

i see some m+ sub rogue good gamers run it but idk how hard to play around it

[tribal blade]

being able to force FW on all targets during dances is big

[maiden oar]

do you want to purposely storm first builder in dance

[lilac stag]

I ran tea on soulbinder. I liked it.

[maiden oar]

or are you just storming between coups

[tribal blade]

yeah storm with rotten during the start of dance

[maiden oar]

oh ok

i was doing that but i felt bad bc no escalating blade from storm

but i guess thats probably in my head

[tribal blade]

i think if you try to delay storming with rotten you could potentially end up not having symbols up at the start of dance

[tribal blade]

yeah it's not bad 😉

[maiden oar]

yea

[vestal escarp]

rotten bis

too bad about the storm

[maiden oar]

i was more thinking play like its not real and if you storm between coups wahoo

[vestal escarp]

a lot of missed dmg

[tribal blade]

i don't like tea very much, it's more so because you can play with vigor i like it

[maiden oar]

but im not sure if thats good or not

ive been storming first in dance

[lilac stag]

have to figure out loom timings for Thursday.

[maiden oar]

but i think that sometimes leads to couping slower

so idk the balance

[tribal blade]

you can kind of think of it like you're investing in your BP damage doing that

[maiden oar]

thats fair

fw goes crazy for bp

[lilac stag]

More BP investments. More Better

[tribal blade]

yeah having FW on all targets means a lot of BP dmg

[lilac stag]

screw rupture

[tribal blade]

BP does quite a bit now

[tribal blade]

you can def say screw rupture on lower keys 😉

on higher keys you still get a lot of value spreading

[lilac stag]

in my head cannon it’s all keys

but yea

Shit lives that long you need to weave them in

[tribal blade]

honestly after playing sin for an entire season

spreading rupture as sub feels chill af

[maiden oar]

sin in m+ is crazy

it is so hard to play that spec gcd perfect

i am constantly overwhelmed

[lilac stag]

Even more chill when you don’t.

[tribal blade]

i honestly think base sin is not too hard

besides using IC correctly

[lilac stag]

You’re overthinking it me thinks.

[maiden oar]

yeah i think 5 rupture spam envenom sin is np

[tribal blade]

IC is the main difficulty of sin's aoe

[maiden oar]

but blood build i cannot break 10m overall

and if i was good i could

[tribal blade]

HAHA true

[maiden oar]

i think theres alot of minmax to it

[limpid sage]

what do you fellas sim on ST currently

[lilac stag]

4.6

4.9 as assa

[maiden oar]

granted i havent tried to push keys in my life

i will try after i kill dimmy

so maybe ill learn sin better then

[limpid sage]

I sim 4.37 T_T

[tribal blade]

sin is bugged to hell atm

[maiden oar]

idk off the top of my head but i think 4.7x sub and 5m sin

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't try playing it in keys in it's current state

[maiden oar]

i see

ok thats good i like sub

[tribal blade]

actually it's probably fine

but i have seen some super elite sin rogues swapping to sub

[maiden oar]

ah ok

good for me

more fun

[tribal blade]

so i lost #1 sub rogue on my server because one of the big boys swapped to sub recently haha

[maiden oar]

every time someone beats me i resolve to grow stronger

[tribal blade]

actually it wasn't just server, it was NA

i'm now #2 sub NA

i'm a SHITTER

[maiden oar]

no dont give up

[short radish]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we killed loomi 10 seconds too early

[maiden oar]

become stronger

[tribal blade]

nah the guy who's ahead now is a god player

[short radish]

and i was half way through my first dance

[maiden oar]

ok if you become stronger you can get better than him

[tribal blade]

plus charrend is gonna make his come up too

and messer

[tribal blade]

ahah nahhhh i know my limits

i'm an ok player

[maiden oar]

no dont give up

[tribal blade]

it's not me being hard on myself, i've just pushed for many seasons now

i know where i stand 😉

[maiden oar]

u know how there are people who played league for 2 years and theyre challenger

and there are people who have played for 15 years and are silver

i think people like misread that situation

[tribal blade]

i have no intentions of going as hard as i have in the past

[maiden oar]

the silver guy at 17 years could be challenger also

yea thats fair

[tribal blade]

it takes a lot to title push in wow

[maiden oar]

i just think you shouldnt give up

[tribal blade]

a lot of time and stress

[maiden oar]

ill see for myself this season probably

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag will tell me off

[maiden oar]

focused on raid first season playing wow as main game

but i think ill have time to try keys this time

[tribal blade]

oo give it a try

it would be cool to see you rise up and become a big name in key pushing

never know who it could be

[maiden oar]

yeah ill clear the tier early enough to have the choice of doing keys or logging on one day a week and reclearing and logging off

and im chosing keys

[tribal blade]

that's what happened with shindigg

[lilac stag]

Saved. ✅

[tribal blade]

slander

[maiden oar]

bc i want to get better

[tribal blade]

don't listen to that idiot

[maiden oar]

and if i log on for farm only i will not get better

[tribal blade]

he has no idea what he's talking about

[maiden oar]

hehe

ok

[tribal blade]

you'll want to get pushing asap if you want to get anywhere if it's your first time

[maiden oar]

that guy stole my rank 1

im going to get him one day

[tribal blade]

you don't want to get stuck behind early on

[lilac stag]

This would be the tier to actually push since you can play the spec you enjoy.

[tribal blade]

you'll be perma behind

[maiden oar]

i have alot of title guys in my guild

some offered to play w me

[tribal blade]

oh ok nice

[maiden oar]

so ill see if they go nvm

[tribal blade]

OH that's actually huge

yeah you'll be fine

[maiden oar]

if they do ill figure it out myself

but if they do not ill rise

[tribal blade]

sounds like you got it

[maiden oar]

[tribal blade]

haha good point

big issue is this is gonna be a long season

and i dunno if i want to push for that long

that would be hell

[maiden oar]

is that good or bad

maybe good because you hit the limit of whats possible quicker

[tribal blade]

well if it's gonna be a long season then title will end up being very high

[maiden oar]

and title doesnt keep creeping higher?

oh

i see

[tribal blade]

last season title inflation went crazy because of resil

[maiden oar]

makes sense

[tribal blade]

and resil inflation+long season sounds like a cutoff that will be very hard to make

[lilac stag]

Can’t you just start pushing after turbo?

[tribal blade]

nah not for me, if i want to make title i do the whole season

[lilac stag]

stay relatively high, but don’t kill yourself til then

[tribal blade]

because i'm not the best i need a lot of reps

[maiden oar]

i see

tbh idc about title as much as i care about getting stronger

i figure if i get good enough title will just happen

[tribal blade]

if i start during turbo boost i'll be comfort wise behind with the season

[maiden oar]

so idc if i miss it i just wanna do keys to get better

[tribal blade]

takes me a lot of reps to get used to dungeons

[maiden oar]

and ill get title eventuslly np

[lilac stag]

you’d be fine imo

[tribal blade]

maybe! who knows

[tribal blade]

be careful though, i know a lot of people who've very confidently said that and for 1 reason or another they never make it 😉

and it's not even a skill thing most times, it's just burn out and the time comittment

[maiden oar]

oh i meant its contingent on me continuing to improve

[lilac stag]

Try it. Keep io up without going nuts then push after turbo

[maiden oar]

if i dont continue to improve then yea no way

[tribal blade]

OH right gotcha

[maiden oar]

oh i see

but i think its better to prioritize being good than it is to prioritize things that are consequences of being good

[tribal blade]

we'll see what happens

[maiden oar]

so im not attached to title really

is what i was trying to say

ill go try to push after i kill dimmy though

see what its like

[rich wigeon]

Hey any good ideas to choose here I'm thinking of myth antenna here for sub but the myth track weapon would be nice I think ( for trinket I would swap pacemaker for antenna ) any toughts?

[maiden oar]

if you are the only rogue in your guild you get dagger from loomithar

[dusk stone]

its antenna if youre not high priority in your guild

[maiden oar]

and the antenna has more competition

[rich wigeon]

Fair point

[maiden oar]

like i got 2x dagger last raid night

bc im the only guy who can use it

if you have many rogues then idk

[rich wigeon]

I'm the only one

[maiden oar]

but id be inclined to grab antenna

[rich wigeon]

so it's gonna be fine

[dusk stone]

that dagger has haste on it doesnt it

[rich wigeon]

I'm gonna grab antenna, thanks for the help

[maiden oar]

yes it sucks

[rich wigeon]

yeah It's garbage off stats

[dusk stone]

yeah dont do the dagger

[lilac stag]

I think especially if you can play the spec you enjoy that will make it a little easier to stomach

[dusk stone]

im glad a bunch of sub rogues actually get to be happy for a patch

[maiden oar]

my guild said nerf sub to me

they are so cruel they dont want me happy

[dusk stone]

max said that if they knew how good sub was, they would've brought like 4, if that says anything

[lilac stag]

prism has brought me much joy back to rogue.

[dusk stone]

sub legit so neglected even when its great its underplayed

[maiden oar]

cant believe liquid sat sub on forgeweaver

[dusk stone]

good for us not getting nerfed

[maiden oar]

insane

[vague schooner]

is sub way better than sin in m+?

[dusk stone]

sub is really good in keys

at least for right now

also what i said earlier seems true, i was running CB build in keys and i ran out of energy in cds, not sure why or how

strike and/or bp got delayed

[rich wigeon]

yeah people tend to cry really hard if rogue is remotely any good so I'm pretty sure they gonna nerf it some point

[vital ocean]

anyone has an idea how much the antenna nerf affects us as sub?, i assume its still ultra mega BiS, but has anyone ran the numbers yet?

[dusk stone]

i asked earlier and was told we still take antenna, but sim it still

assume 30% missed orbs

[hazy breach]

The nerf is irrelevant

30% is mega fucking overkill

10-15% is more reasonable

[maiden oar]

i was doing 20 huh

ty

[vital ocean]

thats what i assumed when i read it @hazy breach , just wanted to confirm ^^

[maiden oar]

i just guessed though no logic to it

[dusk stone]

is the 15% not even trying for the procs?

[hazy breach]

But even then the sim aint fully representative since you can also hold onto orbs and proc them during dances, which the sim aint doing

Either way prism+antenna or prism+forge

[dusk stone]

i was greedy and told my rl i wanted both

[maiden oar]

i should try this

but im scared ill time the orb out

[dusk stone]

anyone know of an lfg discord for keys? for like 13's/14's or around there

[vital ocean]

prism + forge seems aids to play idk,

i got myth antenna last week, and holding orbs for dances on forgemaster gives good results

[hazy breach]

They last 20s

[maiden oar]

ok ty

i will be brave

[tribal blade]

my vault today 🙂

[hazy breach]

Thats some good stuff

The avoidance on it too

[tribal blade]

i think this indirectly takes me out of the running for mythic forge though

[maiden oar]

me too

sob sob

i need every item please understand

[tribal blade]

haha yeah having a myth track antenna plus other raiders where forge is their hard bis

[maiden oar]

yea

i want to at least graduate from champ prism but i cant complain w my myth antenna

[dusk stone]

we got 1 heroic prism this week, went to the other rogue who cant rly play sub

[tribal blade]

does he play sin?

[dusk stone]

yeah hes a sin player

[tribal blade]

prism is bis for sin too

at least for FB

[dusk stone]

didnt know to play fb

[tribal blade]

but the % increase is nowhere close to sub

the other rogue sin't playing FB??

[dusk stone]

nah hes a key pusher

good player

[tribal blade]

oh

[maiden oar]

it took me a week to adjust to fb but its not that bad

he can probably figure it out

[tribal blade]

if you can play DS FB is no issue

[maiden oar]

yea

just have to be less spammy

and b2b shiv in kingbane

[tribal blade]

i now realize why CB wasn't always up for KB after watching whispyr's bug video

[maiden oar]

hehe

[tribal blade]

i thought i was losing my mind playing FB

[maiden oar]

yea...

[tribal blade]

turns out sin is just omega bugged to hell

[maiden oar]

i think you cant press buttons as fast as you do on ds

as fb

[tribal blade]

yeah not as much it seems

you do gain more CPs than DS

[maiden oar]

that could be entirely made up but my damage drastically increased when i became more patient

[tribal blade]

that's my biggest issue playing sin always

to resist the temptation to just spam buttons

[maiden oar]

same

i wanna go crazy

[tribal blade]

but that's what makes sin such a good prog spec tbh

you can take long breaks between button presses and look around

[sage saffron]

why is that you think? what changes when you are more patient with your buttons?

[maiden oar]

look around (wow fractillus is auto attacking! so cool!)

[tribal blade]

you don't brick your energy

[grave zenith]

im looking through peoples logs and learning sub, why do people first cast secret technique and then shadow blades and trinket in their opener?

[tribal blade]

if you button spam on sin in ST you'll end up becoming energy starved

[cyan cobalt]

Just send it bro, only pool a bit before kb

Ur supposed to be starved as sin

[maiden oar]

you are but its good to make sure you dont overdo it i think

[sour marsh]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[maiden oar]

could be placebo and i just hit the good end of variance every pull after i slowed down

[tribal blade]

whenever i button spam with sin in ST my dmg goes in the pooper

[hazy breach]

Before 11.1 that used to be the optimal way to play it as shadow blades didnt affect secret technique. Now its been fixed and theres no difference in sims between the two alternatives (ie before or after sectech)