subtlety

[kind river]

I clearly need more training in the time chamber with sub

but I'm getting it

I did "ok" on m soulbinder

not my best performance on the kill pull but I'm really getting it

[lethal lark]

Do we SD on CD?

[wheat elk]

do i take a dagger if i already crafted one?

[sturdy moat]

Is radiant power alright for sub ? I don't wanna re enchant my stuff from sin

[alpine wraith]

no we play around sec tech

you want to kinda sec tech on cd unless flag is around 30 secs away

and have enough SoD and dances for cds

[olive shoal]

mmm do i go lily or so leah i do have a hc lily

[distant sage]

nothing is a dps boost this vault is soo cooked

[alpine wraith]

sac is decent st but idk

[distant sage]

do u have a way to get heroic prism

[distant sage]

io have heroic prism and champ antena

[olive shoal]

not a 100% i can do the boss on hc

[alpine wraith]

yea then if you also have soul hunters boots that is an L

[hybrid compass]

are the nerfs to antenna something or its still the trinket to get?

[alpine wraith]

socket i guess

antenna is still fine

[distant sage]

i do

[fiery rampart]

I just got heroic prism in vault and I simmed and it wanted me to run double on use for M+ never scoffed so hard cause u better believe im using sigil of cosmic piss instead

[distant sage]

socketing time

[alpine wraith]

maybe can be worse than cosmic hunter or M dimensius but not worth not taking if you can get it

we do play double on use

[fiery rampart]

Bro like I get it but also I just don’t like it

[clever delta]

poggers

[distant sage]

big

[alpine wraith]

damn biug

[fiery rampart]

Bruh I need a helmet

[alpine wraith]

i guess i will get neck

[fiery rampart]

I’m still rocking a champ one I’m salty

[olive shoal]

tough one lily what i should get might be a few week until im lucky enough for a netherprism

[alpine wraith]

ah i see a fellow championer like me

[acoustic matrix]

Hey guys, my damage is quite a bit lower than my sim on single target and I'm trying to figure out why. Any pointers ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/v6bxKkFXdc1GYtRm?fight=8&type=casts&source=5&view=timeline

[fiery rampart]

Legit stuck at 691 ilvl helm

Can’t get shit to drop

[hybrid compass]

btw i got a set piece in a dung category is that bugged or im just stupid and not getting something

[fiery rampart]

But I’ve got every trinket this season

[alpine wraith]

you can send runeds

last week you could already cap 704 on items

if you didnt int upgrades this week you have more leeway even

[fiery rampart]

I haven’t upgraded anything yet I’m at work rn

[alpine wraith]

set can be on any row

[fiery rampart]

I have three full days to slam keys after tonight

What’s the normal amount of prism stacks you get after the first use and when it’s back up for shadow blades

I didn’t get to test it had to loot hit a dummy with it and then head for work I’m assuming in a normal dungeon around 12-13 stacks every 2 mins?

[dusk stone]

its a 1:30 trinket unless you have a reason to send it at 3

so 9 and 18 stacks

sometimes its desync'd from that but should be 9 stack if sent with blades

[lilac stag]

In keys it’s prone to desyncs a bit more

[late bobcat]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[late bobcat]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[stray oyster]

what do people use to track cdg and fazed, which weakaura

[wheat elk]

is it a leg angle if i already got a crafted weapon?

[stray oyster]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[dusk stone]

i just have elv ui and enemy nameplates have debuffs on them, easiest way i found to track stuff

fazed i find is pretty hard to check for while your in that part of the rotation

[night sparrow]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[stray oyster]

i have a buff tha shows coup de grace, but you are not suppose to use it without faze

this is my frustration with sub right now, trying to min max

imean i have a wa

[night sparrow]

I use Luxthos WA and have placed Fazed/UnseenBlade+coup (same weak aura for both) in the left group

When 4 stacks of unseen blade

I find this pretty clear

[jagged rover]

I have a similar aura that I found on wago that is stand alone. I just wanted to know when I have coup that was very clear but tracking the blade stacks is really nice, can predict when your most likely going to have a proc to setup for

[night sparrow]

yeah Unseenblade stacks tracking is mandatory to optimize your rotation

[hybrid compass]

whats the dps loss when you use coup on not fazed targets?

[distant sage]

if i dont have anything in vault do i go for socket and wait for mythic helmet

[night sparrow]

since you don't get +15% finishers dmg for 10sec if using coup on unfazed, I'd say pretty massive inside your cds

if that's out of dance/symbol that's probably negligible

but if u coup on unfazed targets the risk is having Satan to visit you in the middle of the night

[hybrid compass]

ive probably used it many times like that since i dont even think i track that anywhere honestly

i thought the target is like perma fazed after pressing 30 buttons in 5 seconds

[swift tinsel]

having a glow or something on your EB stack aura for when coup is ready and fazed is up works

[night sparrow]

Auto fazed when using sec tech

[swift tinsel]

or have a red border when its not up and coup is ready

something like that

[timid forum]

Anyone has a buff id for the 4set Coup de Grace proc?

[swift tinsel]

Escalating Blade is the name

[night sparrow]

Unseenblade tracker -> displays shiny Coup icone when reaching 4 stacks

[swift tinsel]

its the same spellID as the regular stacking buff

idr what it is

if you have an aura that tracks stacks it'll automatically show the 4pc buff duration

[timid forum]

Oh so Escalating Blade shows it aswel

[swift tinsel]

yep

[timid forum]

Ty

[swift tinsel]

it's literally just coded to be a 5 second duration of the exact same buff that enables regular coup

very creative implementation that causes it to block stack gains during the buff duration

[timid forum]

Oof

[lethal yew]

Trying to decide what to take from my vault. M ring, M shoulders or M legs. The ring doesn't sim all that well compared to my hero priory and dawn ring even though it's listed a bis. The leg/shoulder i would have to use a catalyst charge on.

[swift tinsel]

tis the world we live in

[timid forum]

Big sad

oh well, its sorted now so I'm happy

Thanks haptics

[swift tinsel]

do you have 4pc already bc if you do I'd avoid catalyzing shoulders

[lethal yew]

Already have 4 pc

[night sparrow]

Is the Antenna nerf that huge ? My vault is Antenna OR Myth chest, already have nm prism and hm forge so idk :<

[lethal yew]

3 hero and 1 myth already

[acoustic matrix]

You got 2 mins to check a log real quick ? @swift tinsel I feel like I applied everything you guys told me but dps still falls short of sim on dummy by quite a bit

[lethal yew]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2smE9LHm3aHYBAh6iUVHFo link to the sim from earlier

[young roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[night sparrow]

BRO you have to soak orbs using antenna ??? Fucking transmitter vibes noooooooo

[still vector]

Quick question. How much heating do I have todo if I’m switching between assa for keys and sub for raid.

RL wants me sub now and I’ve been gearing for assa lol.

[alpine wraith]

as long as gear does not have haste it is fine for sub

embellish are whatever

[still vector]

ok

I have a few pieces with crate vers or crit mast

[lethal yew]

I main sin but am gearing sub for a few bosses. Its really just 2 ring and a neck. Everything else is kinda whatever

[still vector]

Thnx

[spiral needle]

is there an extended amount of time you would hold coup before flag/SB, or do you just follow the no finishers 10 seconds before rule

[still vector]

No noticeable drop in dps?

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah you're kinda stuck with haste-heavy shoulders either way with that vault

[smoky aspen]

has anyone else had a hard time shadowstriking after vanish with a recent hotfix? On fights it seems like it gives you 100ms to press it otherwise it says you are out of stealth

[acoustic matrix]

Crit Mastery is quite good for sub too so you're fine

And Assa doesn't want haste either

[swift tinsel]

if you !log I can take a look

[acoustic matrix]

!log

[night sparrow]

Yeah idk either, I've same keybind for ss and bs, when I vanish it now sends bs while after vansh I should be considered stealthed so stealth/dance action bar should pop but yeah idk

just tested and yeah there's a delay to apply between pressing vanish and ss

[regal rose]

so during dance with 3 or mroe targets we spam black powder as finisher if its 1-2 targets we do eviserate ?

[night sparrow]

another rogue bug yayyy

[night sparrow]

3 targets if FTW, 4+ otherwise

[smoky aspen]

Its inconsistent for me but it either gives me a fraction of a second to press shadowstrike or it doesn't let me press it at all

[regal rose]

@night sparrow if find weakness is up on how many targets ?

[night sparrow]

3

otherwise 4

but difference is minimal

[regal rose]

so its ok to spam bp during cds as well on aoe when do we do eviserate and coup only and not bp

[alpine wraith]

also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlotxSFtIF8 oh no no no no

[night sparrow]

and I'd rather saving brain usage instead of having like +10k overall in a key, and I simply evis 3 and 4+ bp, idc about 3 ftw or no

[alpine wraith]

i forsee a world where they kill a lot of buttons

[lilac stag]

We’re getting xbox like I’ve been saying.

lol

Damnit going to make me watch a bell video

[alpine wraith]

if only blizz didnt fire all the PR team

and i coudl watch it from them

or their vods

holy SH

[night sparrow]

You always use coup on fazed target, no matter how many targets you have. Then if 3- evis, 4+ bp

[regal rose]

how do u kno if there fazed the evis button just changes to coup right

[alpine wraith]

although tbh if they merge SoD and dance

and flag and blades

i would not even complain

or something like cb and premed etc

[night sparrow]

Yeah evis autocast coup when available

[spiral needle]

at the very least, not having to press 2 OGCDs during a GCD would be nice

[night sparrow]

Just use dance+symbols macro 🥸 🥸

jk please dont ban me from this channel

[regal rose]

why cant u just macro it

[spiral needle]

ive tried so hard to make that work somehow

cause im bad

[empty plume]

i'm fairly sure it's the crit belt effect

[spiral needle]

just cant

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[empty plume]

if you have Critical Overload on the D.I.S.C belt, each stack of the buff application will break a vanish

[civic swallow]

Is Antenna still good?

[night sparrow]

tbf I'm using dance+symb macro, and have separated keys for dance and symbs. My symb+dance macro is placed on the same keybind as stealthed bar BS so I simply double press it if 0 cp or one press + sec tec if full cp

[spiral needle]

id say yes since its all over rankings

[mental kettle]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[night sparrow]

Soaking orbs no thank's, I got JUMP THREE TIMES ptsd

[regal rose]

im doing something wrong tho causse im only doing like 5.5 to 6.2k overal and i should be doing alot more

so im trying to find out what im doing wrong

[night sparrow]

6.2m u mean ?

[regal rose]

ya

[night sparrow]

ilvl and key lvl ?

[regal rose]

the dk in my group is doing 7.5 to 8mill

+12s 706 ilvl

i do alot more as assasination

[night sparrow]

ha yeah def something going on

But playing sub in key is kinda special since you have to plan what CDs you'll have for the next pack

[wanton mantle]

Key dps also has alot to do with pulls and tbh dk is pretty brain dead for aoe dps lol

[willow pawn]

we dungeons slice sim ?

[regal rose]

what i wanna kno is do i just spam ss and bp on big pulls to save 2 charges of each sod and dance to wait for shadow blades ?

[lilac stag]

for gearing yes

[regal rose]

when im waiting for shaow blades

cause i never know when to hold my sod and dance for blades

[distant mist]

i must apply rupture as many as i can or ill lost much dps?

[night sparrow]

Not exactly, when you're pressing Flag you are supposed to AT THE VERY LEAST have 1dance charge + ~ 45cd on the other charge, and 1 symbol charge with 10sec remaining cd before second charge

[regal rose]

is there a way to simplify what u said lol cause i think maybe thats why im messing up

[wanton mantle]

granted i've been playing sub for less than a week but it seems like to me if i have 20-30s on flag CD i can send a SD SOD CD and still end up with 2 charges of SOD and symbols for CDs by force resetting the 2nd set

[night sparrow]

Depends if you have your 1mn30 or not. If you do, going flag > rupture > FoK > rupture > Fok > Rupture > FoK and THEN you dance/symbols blades and shit as usual

[regal rose]

also during symbols and dance u just ss bp ss bp ss bp on 4+ targets right we usually pulling like 6+ adds

[night sparrow]

So mobs are getting gathered, you get more mastery stacks for flag

all benefits

[spare quiver]

how u play double on use lirio and prism? what u use first

[distant mist]

so i dont need to change target?

[serene blaze]

why we are staacking vers when crit sims better?

[night sparrow]

yeah

[wanton mantle]

dont forget coup procs

[regal rose]

ya if they proc

[lilac stag]

We’re not stacking anything. We’re avoiding haste and following robot recommendations.

[distant mist]

if my flag + shadow blades are on CD then i dont need to spread rupture?

[night sparrow]

double rupture as much as you can before sending burst, you simply need to have flag+blades end at the same time

Yes you usually spread rupture too

[distant mist]

aight

[night sparrow]

bc of how flexible are dance+symbols miniburst windows

[regal rose]

how many targets need rupture on like a 6-8 mob pull

[lilac stag]

Rupture only if they’re gonna live. If you have CDs ready you send 1 rupture with flag and don’t delay CDs

[wanton mantle]

however many ruptures u can get out while the mobs are being grouped

[night sparrow]

oO

[lilac stag]

If they’re still up after CDs and will live 10 seconds send a rupture or two. Then just BP

akar while tanking is pulling you’d toss em out

[night sparrow]

I mean spreading ruptures on 6/8 target to maximize flag stacks before going blade sims better doesn't it

[lilac stag]

But most dungeons just get into your CDs

Losing cds over the course of the dungeon spreading too much rupture ain’t great

If they’re up, mobs are grouped you send

Deal with ruptures later

[night sparrow]

You'd still use it as much as not delaying blades tho

[lilac stag]

Every time you delay cds you run the risk of not getting another set jn

[night sparrow]

it's just gathering more flag stacks before sending blades, it doesn't decrease the amount of CDs you'll send in a key

[lilac stag]

If spreading ruptures makes you happy go for it

[night sparrow]

I mean it's not CD delaying at all

[lilac stag]

if your sitting on dance charges it is

[night sparrow]

If I spread rupture before sending flag it is yeah

Ha that true yeah

But in key u usually dont

[lilac stag]

[restive moth]

is cursed stone idol sim bait? i dont see anyone using it. i personally hate it because its got the channel on it, but just curious if im convincing myself its bad when its actually quite good

[regal rose]

is it ok to press flag without cds at max combo points

[night sparrow]

oO wdym without cds

[swift tinsel]

nope only send flag when you can send with blades and have 1.5 dance and 1.4 symbols

[plush roost]

Desyncing flag blades like that will make you hold cds on bosses to sync them up otherwise its "fine" to do but usually not worth doing since max ruptures vary from pack to pack so if u sent 4 globals here and 2 globals next u have to hold for 2 seconds which adds up over a key and also delays it for the next pack

[regal rose]

see when i kno dance is comming up how long do i hold spending sod and dance before i get blades back

i mean shadow blades

[swift tinsel]

~30sec on flag cd

[regal rose]

so i hold cds for 30 seconds ?

[swift tinsel]

flag/blades bc you use them together

about there

[wanton mantle]

u can push it a bit lower but yes

[regal rose]

shit is so confusing im trying to get better

but i suck

[lofty skiff]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[night sparrow]

Yeah you gotta predict when is next boss to avoid that delay and adapt depending on how many packs before it and shit, with usual m+ downtimes that's where I ajust

[regal rose]

how much single target should i be doing on bosses

[swift tinsel]

as much as you can

[plush roost]

Yeah its not bad, just very situstional and can lead to fuckups

[regal rose]

i kno that im askign whats normal arounf for 706 ilvl in +12s

[wanton mantle]

im at 705 and did 3.5m on swampface 10 if u want that as an indicator

[night sparrow]

ngl I wanted to rip my own eyes off when I started playing sub, but after all it's really rewarding

[wanton mantle]

again only been doing this for like 4 or 5 days lol

[plush roost]

Sub is very unintuitive but once you learn the rules its prettt easy

[wanton mantle]

my dumbass somehow messed up my gear set didnt have my reshi boots or prism equiped

[regal rose]

what build are u guys running with or without the rotten ?

cause i see alot of people using the rotten

whats prism ?

[night sparrow]

kinda the same shit, I don't play with rotten personnaly

[regal rose]

i dont have boots yet is boots a huge dps increase ?

[wanton mantle]

huge no, and unyielding netherprism fractilus trink

[regal rose]

is that a raid trinket ?

[wanton mantle]

yes

[regal rose]

i dont got that either

[wanton mantle]

do u have a lilly atleast?

[stone hemlock]

Hi is sub st very bad,was kinda surprised when i simmed myself https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5B6HJ64jNqxFLyrmHPkaUL

[regal rose]

i got alot i dont kno what to use thats all i been getting is trinkets from keys https://gyazo.com/50b60953a47eec8a48fe85cc4a0d68ea

[swift tinsel]

I'm 'bout ready to buy a fract kill for prism loot funnel lol

[regal rose]

i been using these 2

[wanton mantle]

then ur fine

[swift tinsel]

3 pairs of mail cloak boots tonight too

time to sleep off the disappointment

[short radish]

yeah thats why i just took the heroic one from vault

sure maybe it drops this week on heroic

[wanton mantle]

I've only been playing sub for 4-5 days and this is what i did. Go to a training dummy and just practice for 2 hours. yes its boring. But its slow and u can get a true feel for timing of the spec without worry about other things. Feel the CD reduction and force resetting SD and ST.

[short radish]

but like

its been so rng

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/i-would-if-i-could-bitch-pimp-exit-like-fuck-you-okay-just-to-be-clear-laughing-at-you-like-gif-11796257

[short radish]

and rng has been shit

[wanton mantle]

i did the same after we killed it again on heroic with no drop.

[short radish]

with leech

[swift tinsel]

I got a myth track leech belt

[wanton mantle]

dude I GOT SPEED LOL

[short radish]

2x nm and hm clears with 30 ppl in raid and 0 netherprisms or forge trinkets

its just not worth having hope anymore

[swift tinsel]

bc the rest were 2x haste-heavy boots, the bad Loop ring, and tier helm I already have at the same track

[regal rose]

is it ok to do coup at 5 combo points on aoe or do i ss again

[swift tinsel]

oh and hero lily

[short radish]

we'll clear mythic frac soon as well anyway

[regal rose]

sometimes i land of 5

[short radish]

jealous, speed best stat

[regal rose]

when i get it to proc

[swift tinsel]

I'm one slot away from 10% movespeed

[wanton mantle]

im a speedy boi

[swift tinsel]

like 850speed

away

[short radish]

all my tert stats are leech this tier

i hate it

i have 3k leech without any enchants

[swift tinsel]

I have one avoidance piece but its lorge

or maybe two

brain fog

bedtime

[short radish]

got like 5 pieces with leech on it

[wanton mantle]

Main thing is to get to 6 points on first proc of Coup try to get to 6 for the 2nd proc but dont LOSE the proc tryna get it just send it

[alpine wraith]

leech is so good tho

[regal rose]

how lond does proc last ?

[wanton mantle]

6 seconds i think?

[short radish]

leech overrated

speed is goated

[lusty root]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[wanton mantle]

yeah just checked 6 seconds

[lusty root]

!upgrade

how do i see the the track chart or whatever you wanna call it lol

like champion/hero/myth etc

[wanton mantle]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[wanton mantle]

nope lol

[lusty root]

oh well, its for an alt lol

[muted frigate]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[muted frigate]

That one?

[regal rose]

i feel like i burst and do alot more dps when i use the rotten for soem reason

instead of the other build

[lavish rose]

bis trinket

oh wait i didnt realize i was scrolled up whoops

[lusty root]

yes!

ty

Gear shaping up well though 😄

[regal rose]

does anyone kno is rotation different when u use the rotten talent

what addon is that , thats makes your char screen look like that @lusty root

[dusk stone]

are my timings incorrect for H saladar, send flag on opener -> send flag when dragon is down -> send flag for burn

[lusty root]

its called Chonky, its a weakaura

can find it on wago 🙂

[distant mist]

@night sparrow trying to reroll to sub im main assasin... but when i need do some ST i feel useless :/

[regal rose]

can u send me it

i feel usless as sub in general lol im trying to get better as well its hard

[proper stone]

just got the netherprism - is it not worth popping it outside of CD's eg dance/bladdes?

[alpine wraith]

depends a lot of group dps sometimes you skip the interphase and amp begins early

[night sparrow]

Unless fight ends before your 1mn30 window burst nope

[proper stone]

ok ty

[late bobcat]

if im purely interested in M+ what embellishments should I go

[shell ice]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[dusk stone]

we had our 2nd sub send flag upstairs and we came to same numbers

no idea what the optimization is

[scenic yarrow]

help. I play both sin and sub, which should I choose -_-

[alpine wraith]

yea i mean sometimes depending on dps there is no upstairs

[lavish lark]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[lavish lark]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[alpine wraith]

likely forge if you already have prism

[lavish lark]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[scenic yarrow]

I do have a normal prism

[lavish rose]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lavish lark]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[wild glade]

What to take, rogue currently has 1p

[lavish lark]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tepid trellis]

probably myth track legs and turn them into tier

[lavish lark]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[quiet smelt]

whats rule for bp.. 4+ targs ?

[lavish rose]

ye

[wild glade]

aight @tepid trellis i was just debating if i should take the boots or not

[lavish rose]

but coup takes prio

[shell ice]

hey guys, is it worth to take gloves on veteran for full 4/4 set, or skipping set and take a hero chest and waiting for raid for token to drop?

not a beautiful vault tbh 😄

[night sparrow]

!bp

[scenic yarrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kXCYoQR4PJwqy6NJkVU2B4

Do I take the lily? it just dont feel right

[lusty root]

im running lilly/forge and its pretty cringe lol

[scenic yarrow]

reminds me of amirdrassil double on use

[lusty root]

perform the best, but still annoying

[scenic yarrow]

so its good?

[lusty root]

i think so

[hoary lotus]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[old scaffold]

!log

[acoustic matrix]

Do I want to refresh rupture during symbols ? Does it boost its damage ?

[chrome palm]

Rupture does not snapshot anything, if you refresh it before using cds, its damage increases while the cds are active

[shy scarab]

Why is it annoying? /use 13/use 14 and put it togheter with shadow blades and u get both amped with trinket?

[lusty root]

You can use both at the same time? I thought there’s a cd between on use

[plain oasis]

question what is it that gives you back all your energy after a spender

[lusty root]

Tbh I’ve never thought about it and just assumed since that how most on use trinkets interact @shy scarab

[acoustic matrix]

Aight but let's say I forgot to refresh before cds and I find myself needing to refresh during symbols. Should I prio instant damage or just refresh normally ?

[chrome palm]

Refresh after cds ig but it’s very simple to just rupture after flag

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah I'm talking about flagless symbols

[chrome palm]

Rupture in dance or blades though is a really bad idea

[acoustic matrix]

aight

[wild vine]

There is a CD, tho with that macro it picks whatever is ready, in that case slot 13 should be forge, and it alternates between both

[acoustic matrix]

Only netherprism doesn't have an on use CD iirc

[wild vine]

Would only expect it to be a really good option in the long run with forge and prism tho

[chrome palm]

It’s 20s

[wild vine]

Because you can then stack prism for 3 min

[crude zodiac]

Could someone give me answer regarding using the talent Finality vs. The Rotten for M+?

I looked at my details, and my combo generators only contribute a small amount of percentage towards my DPS in comparison to Eviserate, Black Powder.
If that’s the case, The Rotten guarantees your next XYZ attacks to Crit and deal increased damage. But if my damage spenders are dealing majority of my damage. Would it make sense to the talent Finality to buff my spenders by 15% for a more marginally larger DPS increase?

[tepid trellis]

talent called relentless strikes

5 energy per cp spent

[acoustic matrix]

I must be tripping then. I think on PTR there was a trinket that didn't share cds but it might have not made it live

[keen patrol]

myth weap sims worser then hero tier piece.. how can it be?

[chrome palm]

It does share cd, if you prism you need to wait 20s before using another on use

I use prism with wrathstone in a lot of content

[wild vine]

Sometimes might be bugged, on use almost always have 20-30s CDs on other trinket use

[spring monolith]

any good sub rogue streamers streaming tonight?

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah that one was particular in that regard but might have been a bug yeah

[acoustic matrix]

Did you upgrade the weapon to 723 in the sim ?

[keen patrol]

yes

its like 2k more upgrade then tier hero then

[tepid trellis]

u got 4set / 2 set?

[keen patrol]

maybe cuz i lack haste

yes i got 4 set

have 3% haste only

[acoustic matrix]

What heroi piece is it ?

[tepid trellis]

has 0 to do with haste

[keen patrol]

head

but imo a myth weapon is better then champ to hero tier piece right

[acoustic matrix]

Better get weapon imo

[tepid trellis]

show the sim

[acoustic matrix]

Cause you can get a head in M+

[tepid trellis]

link it

[acoustic matrix]

there's no enchant on your weapon

[acoustic matrix]

I'm perma oom 😂

[tepid trellis]

thats the design of the spec

not hate

haste*

[keen patrol]

but what u think

weap?

[acoustic matrix]

Weap imo yeah

[plain oasis]

sorry i meant combo points back after finsiher, brainfart sorry

[tepid trellis]

shadowcraft

[keen patrol]

@tepid trellis whats ur opinion go for weap?

[acoustic matrix]

He can easily get a heroic head in M+ and catalyze it

[cursive vapor]

lets go

[tepid trellis]

link the actual sim for me, and ill look

[keen patrol]

what actual sim

[acoustic matrix]

your droptimizer

[tepid trellis]

the link to the sim

[keen patrol]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/osbjQgLUG8EmJmTZi8jQ5a

[tepid trellis]

not a screenshot of it

[spring monolith]

link the url man

[tribal blade]

someone already said you don't ahve an enchant on the wep you simmed

[maiden oar]

soulbinder is such a fun fight

on sub

my guild does not like me eating up all the monsters i think

[wanton depot]

can i get an help?

i can take 4p hero in the head with the catalyst today

[tepid trellis]

weapon

[keen patrol]

ooh y i see now thanks bro!

[pine swift]

!part

!parts

[wanton depot]

this is my pg

[tepid trellis]

tier head to finish 4set

[wanton depot]

i can catalyze it

[pine swift]

/part

[tepid trellis]

then id go vers/mast ring

and catalyze your head

[proven plover]

What is this addon called

[tepid trellis]

maybe the crit/vers one if you are playing assa as well

[wanton depot]

i was thinking also on take head hero, than catalyze hero should too

[chrome palm]

That might be the haste vers one if it’s from taz

[wanton depot]

it's a weakaura

[cursive vapor]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[dapper gyro]

am I cooked by going gloves here? i might get prism this weekhttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vw982dhEFn3tAbTeWXMzz6

have lily / antena champ

[plain oasis]

"easily" 20 dungeons later :^(

[keen patrol]

@tepid trellis 1 more question is it worth to upgrade the weap and then use it as main hand right

[chrome palm]

I think hands

Small difference between hands and lily and prism mops the floor with lily

[gleaming leaf]

anyone tried idol trinket and is it really that bad ? my vault has myth idol and champion araz forge, is forge still better?

[fickle mason]

Are people using double on use sub because thats what they have, or because its objectively good. Araz’ and the fractlius trinket. Will they replace 1 with antaena?

I noticed some raiders and m+ers

[dapper gyro]

ye my thoughts as well, can always farm hero trinkets if needed

[chrome palm]

Seems to be good situationally

[tepid trellis]

yeh

[tepid trellis]

its about the same on a 5min sim, but has very good value on add heavy fights or specific timers

[rich stump]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lofty skiff]

Maybe dumb question, but at what point in Big puls are sub using blackpowder over evicirate? And when are we using shirikenstorm over shadowstrike? And Are we only using shuriken storm outside SD?

[white tapir]

in m+, how many targets are you looking to rupture on big pulls?

[maiden oar]

you dont get the 1 free symbols to pair with sectech and no dance with new tier set anymore right

i feel like whenever i go for it i get punished

and its better to dance+symbols twice after first flag

[chrome palm]

Uhhh

I was kinda doing dance with secret and no symbols

[maiden oar]

[chrome palm]

After flag

[maiden oar]

i have not thought about that

[chrome palm]

Seemed to work really good when you are low on symbols

And just the way I was playing

[maiden oar]

yeah my usual default patchwerk plan was like

[chrome palm]

I was almost capping dance before flag someitmes

[maiden oar]

flag -> 2x dance -> 1x symbols + sectech -> flag -> 1x dance -> flag -> 2x dance etc

but im now feeling like i can go flag -> 2x dance 3 times in a row

unsure if thats consistent or not though

[chrome palm]

I’m not a tc but

Third dance after flag is kinda good when you have so much ff even without symbols

[maiden oar]

that makes sense

[chrome palm]

Might be a crackspoon cook idk

[lofty skiff]

What you mean by symbols ?

[chrome palm]

Symbols of Death

[maiden oar]

in my head it makes sense

[chrome palm]

I wasn’t deliberately trying to test it I just found myself doing it because I am greedy to a fault with dance

[maiden oar]

[chrome palm]

Did you make all of those

For your personal use

[maiden oar]

no i upscaled them

for my personal use

[chrome palm]

Where are they from?

[maiden oar]

https://nukochannel.neocities.org/

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gVQaKPTGofBGBrSLNRWvk6 We kinda won on reclear

[maiden oar]

i like them theyre funny

[lucid jackal]

Mythic shoulders, and heroic forge

[chrome palm]

I think it’s great

[maiden oar]

ty

oh btw

i exploded soulbinder today

i dont even know how i did that

i need to learn to do this all the time

[short radish]

double antenna proc + adds?

[fickle mason]

a fast kill killing around when the second addset ends qill do that

[maiden oar]

no idea lol

[fickle mason]

also

or a slow kill where you get another set of adds

[dense mountain]

loool log review paid off

[maiden oar]

yea i got top 5 boss dam on araz too

[short radish]

fucking stronk though

biiig dam

[maiden oar]

but i misplayed a bit on pylon i got ppeer pressured to dump my coup/sht to kill pylon

i shouldve held firm

and pooled for amp

make soemoen else kill it

[chrome palm]

I tried and failed to do prism maxxing amp on araz

[maiden oar]

i think i need to do first flag @ 20s

22 is too late now

greedy orb eaters

[chrome palm]

Greedy dps

Eating subtlety food

[maiden oar]

yea

whats the ideal 2nd flag timing in ur opinion

[chrome palm]

Buff orb hp back 30% please that nerf was a bit too much

[maiden oar]

i was going to try 2mins but i htink thats cutting it close with the amp if ppl kill the pylons faster now that theres gear and raid buff

maybe keeping it 154 is fine

but the idea of having it bleed ff stacks etc into the subsequent orb spawns is tempting

[chrome palm]

I think 2 min is fine

Isn’t amp like 3:30+

[maiden oar]

id have to check wipe log but i think i tried to delay it on a pull we didnt kill

and i didnt have it when the pylons ended

but that was an abnormallyh fast push

didnt happen a 2nd time

[chrome palm]

Maybe you guys are crazy on pylons

[maiden oar]

maybe usually its cutting it close and people are shaming me for not doing pylon dam

[chrome palm]

Aintnoway

[maiden oar]

bc we have moonkin holding 2x arcanes holding

some other guy holding

so i didnt pool to 14 on my kill this wk

but next week ill hold firm if we dont extend

[chrome palm]

Sub is the giga holder smh

[maiden oar]

i hope we dont extend i have 704 prism

[chrome palm]

They don’t understand how much this guy can hold

[maiden oar]

yea i am so good at auto attacking

and backstabbing

[chrome palm]

The one backstab every 3 seconds has never had so much murderous intent as the pylons on araz

[maiden oar]

hehe

[turbid edge]

How's ST for m+ bosses? Is it one of the higher specs or is it just mid?

[maiden oar]

i think not backstabbing / pooling coup as aggressively for orb spawns in araz defniitely helped

my boss dam improved a ton

shindigs still gapping me though need to defeat that guy

[chrome palm]

Really good but only if you have cds on pull and kill after a use

[celest needle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden oar]

im doing +10s because im a coward but i feel very strong in my +10s

[maiden oar]

ty btw

[turbid edge]

I watch his stream all the time. He swaps specs so much between pulls

[maiden oar]

oh @chrome palm question

i notice sometimes i run into a problem where like

shadow dance ends right as i want to queue a builder

and if im trying to gcd off cd i just bacckstab before starting next shadow dance

[turbid edge]

Oh because we have tons of burst DPS on cds but if we kill before next cds, then my DPS will drop back to mid level?

[maiden oar]

do i want to not press for a fraction of a second to dance again before the backstab

so that way i gain a shadowstrike

or is pressing a gcd off cd more important?

since u cant pandemic dance or dance during dance

sometimes it times out right when the gcd is ready and it feels BAD

[chrome palm]

Like in blades?

[maiden oar]

yeah

when iwant to back to back dance

i was prioritizing pressing a gcd as frequent as possible so i just go evisc (dance ends) -> backstab -> dance -> backstab

[turbid edge]

How are u going to defeat shindigs with that attitude

[maiden oar]

but that feels so bad so maybe its good to wait a little bit after the evisc to re up dance before bsing

[chrome palm]

I use a macro for dance+evis and dance+cb+secret and I spam that sometimes

[maiden oar]

ill be brave soon

[chrome palm]

As far as builders go Im not sure because I can’t really remember that being an issue

[maiden oar]

im new to wow so im foccusing on getting good at raid first

[chrome palm]

I always seem to end on a finisher

[maiden oar]

but i think after i clear the tier this time ill learn to push keys

[turbid edge]

New to wow but top of global DPS on mythic bosses? You're insane

Wait you're a liar

[lucid jackal]

Can somebody tell me why the sub APL seems so fried ]

[maiden oar]

i played for 3 or 4 weeks at the start of dragonflight and killed normal eranog

[lucid jackal]

Like the sample sequence seems absolutely cooked

[maiden oar]

and then i unsubbed and went back to xiv

[turbid edge]

Oh gross

[maiden oar]

and then i quit xiv at the start of 11.1

and went to wow

[turbid edge]

Were u #1 in xiv then?

[maiden oar]

i did do delves in 11.0 too

no

not even close

[turbid edge]

Delves are disgusting

[trail birch]

Do we have any streamers who playing sub rogue guys?

[maiden oar]

my secret recommendation is gramhehe

i watched this guys vods when i was learning last tier

[leaden prairie]

!guide

[maiden oar]

hes frecnh i have no clue what hes saying

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[maiden oar]

but i think hes good and he records everything

and he has gcd tracker

[gleaming leaf]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[trail birch]

Ty let me check him

[turbid edge]

So u just watch his casts to learn and don't understand anything? Seems kinda suboptimal way to learn

[maiden oar]

no

id think what would i do here

see what he does

if its different ask myself why

and then as id play more id like notice little parts where things didnt feel smooth

and id try and see what he did to avoid them or if they were unavoidable

[turbid edge]

Oh interesting

[maiden oar]

actually i lied to u i killed the primal council and got 1500 io before i went back to xiv in the start of df

[lusty root]

Yea it’s pretty sick, dev can be annoying too though, they nuke them just as fast as we do sadly

[maiden oar]

but i full on shifted focus to wow in 11.1

and i got ksm in 11.0 if that makes me not new

[honest yacht]

Heyo, i need some input. Got shitty vault.

Already have champ antenna and prism.

Best I got in vault was myth so'leahs trinket.

Should I just take socket instead?

[maiden oar]

soleahs isnt actually bad

id sim it still but its not horrible

[raw pebble]

Morning lads. I used play sub back in early S2. Just wondering. I am noticing sub being on top in archon m+ tier list.
DId...something happened to it? or is just a few one trick heroes doing +17s on and skewing the results? 🤣

[maiden oar]

tier set goes insane

some bugfixes and baseline buffs

the prism trinkets pretty good

[lusty root]

!log

[maiden oar]

u can do almost all of ur st in full aoe talents

[raw pebble]

Ah I see. So sub is actually viable.
Curious...
nerves starting to tingle
Very...very curious!

[lusty root]

Every spec in the game is viable 😄

[tribal blade]

damn he just said sub is viable right now

[maiden oar]

even if it wasnt its the most fun spec i think

so worth playing

[turbid edge]

Is there any ability or buff duration that I want to carefully track and want a separate WA? Is it flag or symbols or blade?

[raw pebble]

Oh true. Was simply wondering what has skyrocketed sub so suddenly and I am always hesitant to jump to "omgez, this is new S tier bandwagon" till I am have tested the waters fully.

[honest yacht]

Ah simmed it with haste lol. That's why it simmed bad 😂

[maiden oar]

hehe

happens !

[maiden oar]

all of those should be in your wa pack by default probably

the only changes i made to the wa i use was adding fw/rotten tracking but with the storm bug fixed i dont feel like i have to track rotten anymore

and fw tracking is mostly optional

[honest yacht]

At 717 it sims the same as 704 antenna in ST with mastery. So def worth it to keep.

Ty for the input Grouch!

[turbid edge]

Do I need to be watching those carefully to fit the correct number of gcds and dances within their durations right? I'm swapping from sin rogue

[maiden oar]

good if you want to know if its safe to open a dance with a backstab and good for aoe if you want to optimize bp target counts

[limpid sage]

Did you remember to swap it off haste

[turbid edge]

What is rotten?

[maiden oar]

dont worry about it

[limpid sage]

It’s pretty much equal to pacemaker for me

[maiden oar]

you dont play it rn in most cases

unless you do certain m+ builds

[turbid edge]

Yeah I'm playing sub for m+

[maiden oar]

but it makes 2 builders crit after you press symbols of death

and you could use it with crit shuriken storm

to apply find weakness in aoe

but crit shuriken storm used to eat both stacks

so i liked having a thing on my screen reminding me i have the rotten so i would shuriken storm second and not waste a stack

[turbid edge]

Oh I see

[maiden oar]

but now it doesnt eat 2 stacks and alot of m+ builds dont even play rotten (although its preference)

so its fine to not track the rotten

rottens viable though

[maiden oar]

yeah you want to see how long flag/blades/symbols/dance last

[upbeat sorrel]

can you use araz and netherstorm together

how does that work

[rich stump]

I like rotten because I use shuriken 1st global in dance, this way I know that for the rest of that dance I have guaranteed find weakness, after that I only use shadow strike to keep getting unseen blade procs

[maiden oar]

usually araz at 0:00 -> 9 stack prism at 1:30 -> araz at 3:00 -> 18 stack prism at 4:30 -> repeat

yeah rottens fine but its hard to mess up rotten now that shuriken storm doesnt consume 2 stacks

[upbeat sorrel]

sounds kinda spicy

[novel marlin]

Hey 🙂
hope i can pick your brains on my vault too. I am torn between a hc Netherprism and a myth tier chest. Since I do not raid mythic being done with the chest slot is appealing. My trinket situation is already good (Lilly / Pacemaker hc). Are there any double use enjoyers that can pitch Prism / Lilly to me. My focus is M+ and I am keen to try.

[maiden oar]

so i dont track it anymore

[upbeat sorrel]

netherprism is fairly easy to get from raid

its an agi only item

[maiden oar]

str too

[upbeat sorrel]

o

[maiden oar]

but i think youre mainly competing with dks and mm hunters

[upbeat sorrel]

do any str classesuse it?

as bis

[novel marlin]

True. My raid is already trading it.

[upbeat sorrel]

no one ever wants them in my raid

[maiden oar]

i dont know exactly what the situation is for dks

we got unlucky with prisms mines still 704

hope we get a myth prism before we extend

0 for 2

[maiden oar]

prism lily is 2% worse than prism antenna

about the same as prism pacemaker

[novel marlin]

this is dungeon slice?

[maiden oar]

personally i feel like prism is really fun and makes the spec cool to play but im not sure whats better in your situation

no this is patch

ill check dslice

[novel marlin]

it's like 5%ish for me on slice

[maiden oar]

for slice on fuu sheet its -3%

[novel marlin]

but in reality it might be much better? dunno 🙂

[maiden oar]

and prism pacemaker is -1.5%

yea can check for urself also

[novel marlin]

ye. thank you all 🙂

[turbid edge]

What's command for fuu sheet

[maiden oar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[turbid edge]

And do I have to track when coup is about to proc? Or it's something I can just easily react to and doesn't change much?

[maiden oar]

coup is important

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[turbid edge]

Huh???? Sub is 1.6m DPS above sin rogue in dslice?

[maiden oar]

want to ideally not waste stacks of escalatingblades (the thing that gives you coup when you get 4x)

who knows hehe

but basically you want coup for flagellation if you dont have to give up too much to get it

you want to coup as fast as possible otherwise to not waste escalating blade stacks

sectech gives you 1/2 a coup over the next 2 builders

more if your tier set procs

[raven sage]

what should i pick xD

simc said tier chest

but idk maybe wepon?

[leaden prairie]

why is your text all over the place

[raven sage]

i messed up with elvui

[rich stump]

that weapons has the same dps as a 720 crafted one, neck you are prob going to craft. Idk chest if you don't have tier it's gonna be good long run

[leaden prairie]

its vomiting everywhere

[raven sage]

cant fix it

xDD

[maiden oar]

id probably go with the tier shirt but its a genuinely difficult decision

[raven sage]

yeap

[shadow lance]

Wtf is that police?

[rich stump]

when in doubt pick tokens

[turbid edge]

Aww I have myth lily and myth sac and they're pretty mid on that list, however might be higher if comparing to just the heroic versions of the trinkets since I'm not myth raiding

[shadow lance]

And I would get the neck btw

[keen dome]

My vault was sad and I am sad and today is bad.

[shadow lance]

You wanna speak about sad vault?

2 weeks in a row

[sage pond]

still myth shoulders with cata charge, edit: okay sorry for sub shoulders suck :S

[maiden oar]

there will be dinars but idk if you are a boost buyer

[shadow lance]

Shoulders is not the piece we want to keep you know?

I don't want to have a 1000+ haste gear piece on me

[turbid edge]

Bis belt, no?

[shadow lance]

Not really

I mean, it's crit/mast, it's ok

I would pref the Dark Devotion one, giving vers/mastery

[raven sage]

what is police xD

[shadow lance]

Yes, it's "font"

Police is in french XD

[raven sage]

xDD i changed some fonts in elvui and afetr that my vault and things going too be liek that and cant change it

xDD

[shadow lance]

Put it back as before ^^

[queen kraken]

yoink i guess?

[shadow lance]

gz

[raven sage]

in how much target count i should use black powder?

with this talent

[tepid trellis]

4 or more

[raven sage]

is that realy worth more than eviscrate?

[dusk stone]

gambit is a sub key

[vagrant thorn]

can you explain why 🙂 why wouldn't you eviscerate if yuo have flawless form, surely thats gotta hurt more than some dirt?

[soft crescent]

Hey guys, pretty new to sub and somewhat confused on when I should swap from eviscerate to black powder in keys?

[limpid sage]

I'm gonna cry

[soft crescent]

aannnnnd someone jsut asked that above me xD

[tepid trellis]

short answer it does not

[vagrant thorn]

why not :p

[tepid trellis]

cuz bp is tuned higher

[rain vessel]

what WA is recommended for shadow techniques?

[tepid trellis]

than nimble

at 4 targets or more

its that simple

[vagrant thorn]

oh right, nimble flurry isnt 100% replicated dmg or is it ;O, ooooh only 60% -,-

[dusk stone]

stealthi you have any idea when i should send flag on heroic salad man

we had two subs send cds at different times had same output

[tepid trellis]

do you push early or not?

[shadow lance]

Guys, pls, read before asking questions, wtf

[dusk stone]

im not sure what pushing early means

[white siren]

bis belt in assa

[dusk stone]

he dismoutned dragon then we got intermission

open - dragon - intermission - burn

was order we got

[soft crescent]

hey i joined like 2 seconds ago with a question and typed it before noticing >.>

[tepid trellis]

then pull

90sec

in

platform

then burn

[dusk stone]

i sent flag on opener -> dismount -> no flag on adds upstairs -> burn

[tepid trellis]

you need to rip it ON cd

to have it line up

[dusk stone]

i did not hold for very long

one dance extra thats it and i was up exactly for burn

[shadow lance]

And it's 100% written in guides

Help people is always a pleasure, but read manual first

[dusk stone]

and this is perfect CD timings?

for boss or

[night rampart]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

you should get 2x flag before he gets on the dragon

[dusk stone]

its heroic i only get 1

if im not misunderstanding

[soft crescent]

Got another question that I didn't see an answer to on WoWheads guide, how many shadow dance burst windows can you fit between each Shadow Blades/Flaggellation burst?

[shadow lance]

2 - 1 -2 -1

It's a cycle

[tepid trellis]

2, but im not sure how his phase 2 phasing works since i always do it in splits

[honest yacht]

Any advice on miss chance for antenna when simning dslice?

[soft crescent]

and how long should I hold secret techniques in order to make sure I get two into shadow blades?

[tepid trellis]

it needs to be ready

when you press flag

[leaden prairie]

there is no mention of doing dance bs sod, instead of dance sod bs in the guide, which if i remember correctly was a thing back when i still knew how to play sub, is it still better to dance bs sod @tepid trellis

[tepid trellis]

that was just something people did with rotten

[leaden prairie]

i see make sense

[tepid trellis]

which u dont play anymore

[leaden prairie]

i do indeed not have rotten

[shadow lance]

Neutral without rotten yh

[tepid trellis]

it was neutral with it

people just feelycrafted it

[leaden prairie]

okok

[tepid trellis]

"feelsbad" to waste rotten on BS

[leaden prairie]

so i need to rewire my brain again

gg

[shadow lance]

With* fuckin autocorrect

[soft crescent]

yes, but roughly how long is that? give or take a few seconds for procs

[tepid trellis]

30 or so

around there

on single target

[leaden prairie]

stealthi you been proging nexus cocker or ?

[shadow lance]

SecTech got CDR when you use CP, so it depends situation

If you're in AoE, you'll be able to reduce cooldown way more

[tepid trellis]

Nah

[leaden prairie]

ah wtf

you washed up or what

[limpid sage]

even if find weakness is up?

[shadow lance]

If you're in ST, you won't reduce the cd

[tepid trellis]

I raid 3 days a week zac

[leaden prairie]

washed up ..

there is no logs i can look at

i was trying to get 3 dances in the damage amps

but its awkard

[tepid trellis]

This was about last season

[tepid trellis]

Get autumn

Turbo free

[leaden prairie]

wht does autumm do for sub

[tepid trellis]

Cdr

[leaden prairie]

on whcih spell tho

[raven sage]

whats that?

[shadow lance]

Paladin benediction

That give CDR to the target

[leaden prairie]

like i have flag coming up slightly after the thing start

[fickle mason]

how good is void elf this tier

[leaden prairie]

so if i want to dance 3 times

it needs to be a dance before cds kinda

which is super weird

i couldnt manage to do it good yet

and i dont like overcapping before hand

but kidna no choice

[shadow lance]

Oh you want chain 3 dances but not capping it

[leaden prairie]

If I wanna have 3

Idk

[shadow lance]

I got your issue

[leaden prairie]

I'm trying to figure it out anywya

There is no logs yet

[bleak night]

ye autumn will move flag to the start of the amp

or closer to it

[leaden prairie]

And all the things I tried felt weird for now

[bleak night]

so you might be able to fit 3 dances easier

bribe hpal

[leaden prairie]

What does autumn reduce

Everything or what

[bleak night]

flag and blades

[native zodiac]

Everything but trinket

[bleak night]

at least

[shadow lance]

Flag/Blades

[leaden prairie]

No trinket tho

But prism

So doesn't matter

Hmge

That's interesting

[raw wadi]

💀

[tepid trellis]

just cdr on everything

[tacit coral]

blessed

[hollow spear]

30% on everything, it's like a big sale

[tepid trellis]

it just lets you have flag for start of platforms and start of burn, so you can carry more cdr into the burn

making it easier to get everything inside of it

[raw wadi]

yeah not sure if cursed or blessed...

[leaden prairie]

thats kinda good hmge

[shadow lance]

Nice ring

[tepid trellis]

and @leaden prairie just go look at exiles vod he consistently got 3x dance it

without autumn

[tacit coral]

whats wrong with it bro

[leaden prairie]

ah ok

i will check

[bleak night]

exile gamer

[shadow lance]

Too much good pick

[hollow spear]

What dungeon would you guys consider BiS for the purpose of knocking out eight swift 10s in pugs?

[tribal blade]

jesus christ can we delete tempered in battle already

[tacit coral]

oh no my steak is too juicy and my lobster too buttery!

[leaden prairie]

idk i didnt get to play that many damage amp yet

[tribal blade]

this prot pal in a 16 priory walked into the massive pull after 1st boss and tempered me

[shadow lance]

Exactly

[tribal blade]

i almost died

legit hadn't even left stealth yet and was being chunked down

[leaden prairie]

stealthi

would you believe me if i said

i love sub on prog on these type of bosses ..

[shadow lance]

I had once a paladin falming me dying on last bos of SoB, I took -60% cuz of tempered then slam in less than 0.3 seec

[tribal blade]

i don't believe you tomelvis

[leaden prairie]

my favorite spec in the game right after outlaw for sure for sure

[tribal blade]

dude they're such trolls lol

[shadow lance]

I was like, mate

You legit killed

[tribal blade]

we also had a dk in the group

[hollow spear]

do you even like anything that isn't rogue zac?

[tribal blade]

like bruh

temper the dk

he's invincible

[tepid trellis]

would you believe me if said i never wanna play this boss again?

[leaden prairie]

[leaden prairie]

idk this boss is shit anyway

2 fps

[hollow spear]

are you playing ds sin or sub, Stealthi?

[leaden prairie]

random ass jump everywheere

[tepid trellis]

sub

[tribal blade]

melee shitfest boss

[leaden prairie]

but i played outlaw on it

so its fine

[tepid trellis]

outlaw slaps on it

i sadly have 0 haste gear, and i refuse to go farm it

[hollow spear]

I am bad at outlaw, but even worse with 5 fps

[leaden prairie]

yeee

the fps thing

[hollow spear]

For outlaw to feel decent, the game has to be buttery smooth

[leaden prairie]

its hard ..

[tepid trellis]

my fps wasent that bad on it

[leaden prairie]

but im among the warlocks

goated spec !

[shadow lance]

or goated player

[tribal blade]

oh shit you ahve the #1 rogue parse on that fight zac

what a god gamer

[tepid trellis]

hopefully we just 1 bang it on our reclear

ive got the mythic boots anyway

so i never wanna see that boss again

[bleak night]

thanks im really looking forward to it now

[tepid trellis]

its just not a fun fight

as a close range cleave spec

[tribal blade]

it's mechanics vomit

[tepid trellis]

you are at the mercy of your tanks

[tribal blade]

i'm sure ranged are chilling on it

[bleak night]

yeah i played bm on it

and holy fuck

its so free lmfao

[tepid trellis]

and your ranged people with debuffs to not turn melee into nam with eradicates

[tribal blade]

my raid team is full of silly tanks and ranged

[leaden prairie]

of course

[bleak night]

you just chill in the back spreading barbed shots and listening to payphone

goes hard

[tribal blade]

so that's not gonna be a fun boss to prog

[tepid trellis]

best part is in my Hm taz run

[bleak night]

#1 melee parse even

[tepid trellis]

i got a myth track outlaw wep

[bleak night]

hes a gamer

[tepid trellis]

but 0 haste gear

[tribal blade]

oh true

[leaden prairie]

well

[tepid trellis]

[leaden prairie]

you dont have random m+ gear?

im full bis on all 3 specs

idk

[tepid trellis]

i gave away alot of haste vers shit

[shadow lance]

Weird flex but it's ok

[tepid trellis]

cuz i kept boosing people's alts

[leaden prairie]

weird

[tribal blade]

download that WA that auto msgs people begging for gear

[leaden prairie]

i would never

[tepid trellis]

i never planned on playing outlaw

so

[leaden prairie]

hmge

skill issue that one

i planned on playing all 3 specs

[limpid sage]

no way I got my shit vault and you're allowed this rng

[leaden prairie]

freakazoid multispec they call me