subtlety

[opal basalt]

Who is doing that

[swift tinsel]

yeah what

[lucid jackal]

U guys blind or smthing

[dusk stone]

Oh come on we always meme about it

[opal basalt]

Stopped reading after nimble

[swift tinsel]

yeah blind confirmed same

sin mentioned so glossed over it

[dusk stone]

Really though i suspect sub rework maybe following the simplicity thing they mentioned with midnight

[swift tinsel]

only simplicity I'd really wanna see is merging flag into blades

and removing FW/SF and making sectech one big hit

[dusk stone]

I'm not sure what they are actually talking about with that, like what specs are overly complicated, enhance, sub, arcane and?

[swift tinsel]

they always bring up outlaw

[lucid jackal]

Theres a handful, but their goal isn't to turn every spec into ret

[dusk stone]

That too yeah

[lucid jackal]

Just rein in some of the extreme outliers

[swift tinsel]

yeah that would be an awful idea

[opal basalt]

I think they’re actually gonna make sub a dance uptime spec

[swift tinsel]

idk I can't really think of any that are overly complicated

[opal basalt]

True 2nd outlaw

[dusk stone]

Idk maybe wow is different but many old mmos say simplicity and then ret-ify things

[swift tinsel]

like 75% of them are builder-spenders

[lucid jackal]

Outlaw is very complex atm

[opal basalt]

It is

[swift tinsel]

ye that's the only one that comes to mind

[opal basalt]

Builder priority hurts my head

[lucid jackal]

ele

[swift tinsel]

ele isn't too bad, its all MotE

[west tide]

we wont get ethereals but we can turn outlaw into a ethereal esque spec swap the pirate theme for a cosmic theme ty

[lucid jackal]

It has a very complex set of prios

[hazy breach]

Sub would play extremly similar if we didnt have to CB on second sectech, cast backstab in dance or storm inbetween coups

It would just be easier and smoother to play

[dusk stone]

Ridiculous apm too

[hazy breach]

Without sacrificing most of the fun

[dusk stone]

They did this simplicity stuff in swtor to us and some others i played, it was very bad

The people who liked difficult stuff got shafted

[opal basalt]

Yeah just get rid of the very unintuitive stuff

[dusk stone]

The appropriate term is they gutted stuff

[lucid jackal]

Well 2dance3sod is just going to lead to "unintuitive" stuff

Inunititive in the sense of "stop using CDs for big CDs"

[hazy breach]

I dont think theyll fix that bit (or atleast i hope they dont)

[opal basalt]

That’s kinda intuitive in a spec that’s completely about one big burst window

[swift tinsel]

not really much more complicated than sub heuristics imo

[lucid jackal]

I agree, I think sub is easy tho

[hazy breach]

People get hung up on stuff like i posted above

And neglect the core concept of just "make sure your shit is ready for blades"

[opal basalt]

When I first looked at the sub opener and stuff I was very scared

[swift tinsel]

have equilibrium up, lvb mote buffed earth shock repeat

[opal basalt]

But yes now that I’ve played it for a while it’s really chill

[dusk stone]

Sub opener is a logistics issue

It required 3 different types of binds for me

[opal basalt]

Idk all my CDs are on mouse

[dusk stone]

4 actually if i count blades macro

[lucid jackal]

The opener is easy

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[opal basalt]

It is

I agree

It just looked monkaS

[swift tinsel]

yeah as long as you have sod and dance on binds that are comfy to press simultaniously there's really not much too it

[dusk stone]

What keys you hitting before you stab

[short radish]

yeah sub opener isnt any more complicated than any other class

or at least

not uber complex

get your dot up

then send regular finishers

[opal basalt]

Flag, rup, symb dance, stab

[dusk stone]

What keys are those though

[opal basalt]

Uhm

[swift tinsel]

G, 5, Q, 3, 1

[opal basalt]

Mouse, Q, mouse, mouse, e

[short radish]

Shift+v -> f3 -> mousebutton4 -> t -> e

[dusk stone]

Yeah so 4 different types

[short radish]

yeah but outside dev evoker

[lucid jackal]

SS 2 > Flag G > Rupture Q > Dance MB4 SoD MB5 > Backstab 1 > Sectec 5

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[short radish]

having 4 different buttons is normal

[swift tinsel]

dang mb4/mb5 for sod dance sounds nice ngl

[dusk stone]

Im not saying its particularly hard to do it

[opal basalt]

G is a sick bind

[dusk stone]

Its fine

[opal basalt]

It’s an mmo mouse, so not exactly mb4/5

[dusk stone]

But 4 different types of keybinds kinda makes ui worse

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately G is mount

[dusk stone]

Becomes messy

[swift tinsel]

If its like my corsair mb4/mb5 they're right next to each other on the thumb

[short radish]

like even ret as mongo bongo as it is has 7 differente buttons in the opener

[bleak night]

mount is an opie wheel on shift+spacebar along with hearthstone and stuff

smh

[dusk stone]

I have flag as F and its super convienient

[short radish]

ahhh yes F for flag

i understand

[swift tinsel]

opie mount wheel is alt+x

[dusk stone]

Well look at where your left hand is most of the time

It is funny tho

[short radish]

im personally a B for blind enjoyer

[dusk stone]

Ctrl + c for me

[opal basalt]

Blinds on c for me

[swift tinsel]

alt+mb4

[lucid jackal]

MMO mouses are overrated trash

[opal basalt]

Shut up guy

I like mine

[lucid jackal]

I just use logi lift

2 mouse buttons is all I need on my mouse

[swift tinsel]

I just have the 2 lil thumb buttons on my harpoon

[dusk stone]

Logitech g502 hero will never buy another kind

[swift tinsel]

love them, uncomplicated

had a naga in the cata days and fucking hated it

[dusk stone]

Very intuitive button layout

[lucid jackal]

[swift tinsel]

ye that's about where mine are

[bleak night]

ive used the same logitech g600 for almost a decade now

idk what im gonna do when it finally gives out

[opal basalt]

So if you look at this for me: Flag 5, Dance 8, Symbols 12, blades 4

[lucid jackal]

thats just 2 much

[warm marlin]

as someone who never used an mmo mouse i dont understand how people do

i feel like i would misclick 24/7

[bold dawn]

can play one handed ez af

[lucid jackal]

same

[bleak night]

i dont like using it for rotational buttons

[swift tinsel]

yeah its not great

[alpine wraith]

that seems more of a productivity mouse

[swift tinsel]

and they get gnarly instantly

[alpine wraith]

kinda love my hero

[bold dawn]

i only use my mouse for rotational buttons, outside of carpal tunnel, it's 100x better

[opal basalt]

Idk I’ve been using them for like 8 years now

[alpine wraith]

from logitech

[swift tinsel]

anything beyond two thumb buttons is overkill imo

[opal basalt]

And it’s totally working for me

[dusk stone]

5 more buttons are on the side

Its made so your binds sit where your fingers naturally are

[opal basalt]

Okay but do you guys have mousewheel tilt bound?

Because I do

[dusk stone]

Thumb has access to 5 by itself

[bold dawn]

how am i supposed to run right and foward while pressing e keybind

cant do it

with mouse? ez

[short radish]

hold down left + right click on mouse
and e and d with middle finger and pointer

[lucid jackal]

LIterally

[bold dawn]

id rather just press mouse keybind wtf

[swift tinsel]

I rarely W, its all mouse

AD strafe

jump strafe

[short radish]

any left + right click move forward enjoyers?

[swift tinsel]

lotta ways to move without lotta keypresses

[opal basalt]

I don’t W at all

[dusk stone]

Keybind logistics is a real thing though, when i look at a spec i think about how i'd bind certain things and how convienient it is to get to certain things

[short radish]

i was doing it on sprocket a lot

[opal basalt]

Forward is S for me

[swift tinsel]

hold right click and move as needed

[short radish]

holding down right click

and tapping left click to move forward

[swift tinsel]

yep

[opal basalt]

I untrained doing that because I’m a healer and my pointer is actually important to me

[dusk stone]

It is magical when you can flick your mouse wheel on the side and step

[bold dawn]

mouse keybinds 1-12, shift mouse keybinds 1-12, control mouse keybinds 1-12

idk how yall play without these mmo mice

[opal basalt]

So my mousewheel tilt binds are actually defensives on modified left tilt and pot/healthstone on modified right tilt

[dusk stone]

I also have kidney macro on side for double stuns

[swift tinsel]

by having even a modicum of left hand dexterity

can accomplish quite a lot

[bold dawn]

not bout that. some classes have 10+ rotational pieces or more like enhance

[swift tinsel]

I'm aware, I've played enhance

[opal basalt]

I think I could play without an MMO mouse

[bold dawn]

just too many keybinds to be pressin when all can be on my right thumb lol

[opal basalt]

I just got so used to it

[swift tinsel]

idk people have managed to do it quite a lot

[opal basalt]

I’m not buying anything else now

[bold dawn]

yeah but lot of people also happen to suck

coincidence ?

[opal basalt]

Rotation on mouse is too much

[swift tinsel]

a lot of people also use mmo mice

[opal basalt]

Camera all shaky all the time

[swift tinsel]

coincidence ?

[bold dawn]

the 3.5k io players

[grizzled sage]

!log

[bold dawn]

sure

[dusk stone]

I am not a fan of 14 buttons on the side, it seems like you would be so slow

[uncut bloom]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[bold dawn]

i think its faster personally, i'm sure its just however u get used to it tho. kinda impossible to miss a gcd when its all on ur mouse

[dusk stone]

I only keep like sprint there, sod/dance directly where my thumb is

[opal basalt]

Like for me it’s cooldowns, movement and kick on mouse

[dusk stone]

I keep kick as r

[bold dawn]

im opposite

[opal basalt]

That’s sectech

[dusk stone]

Very close to left hand movement

[bold dawn]

cooldowns / cc / racial / trink on keyboar keys --rotation piecdes mouse lol

[dusk stone]

There is a lot less movement while binding in this game most of the time

[opal basalt]

How is your cursor not all over the screen or your camera shaky with rotation on mouse?

[dusk stone]

How much does your hand lock up while doing rotation with mouse though

[maiden oar]

i have backstab/ss on mb4 its nice

[gleaming locust]

I have used R as eviscerate keybind since wrath and I cant force myself to change it. I use Mouse Wheel Down to kick

[bold dawn]

uh idk i have razer mmo mouse. actually never once been an issue for me lol

[maiden oar]

backstab on r in stealth

[swift tinsel]

R is sectech wym

[maiden oar]

sectech on mb5 cb+sectech on alt mb5

[opal basalt]

Thanks haptics

[maiden oar]

[swift tinsel]

shift+R cb sectech

[opal basalt]

Wait

That’s genius

I never thought about that

[dusk stone]

Good keybind

[opal basalt]

I always press cb manually and lose like half a gcd

[dusk stone]

Have a modifier for thing that gets modified i like it

[sullen yarrow]

hey i have a question, but i dont want to be sented straight to the guide

answer i

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[dusk stone]

If i dont have intuitive thing like that i just cheat with macros

[maiden oar]

how does this compare to mx vertical

[iron whale]

guys when I enter combat from stealth, meaning I open with Shadowstrike and keep spamming for as long as Subterfuge lasts... am I supposed to use Shadow Dance and Symbols too before I inc?

or I use Shadow Dance and Symbols AFTER Subterfuge expires?

[gleaming locust]

LMAO

[sullen yarrow]

what is that make me full combo points on my rotation

[maiden oar]

i used to use one of those but i use dav3 now

[short radish]

pressing generators

also shadowcraft

[hazy breach]

Subterfuge...?

[sullen yarrow]

mf

[short radish]

[sullen yarrow]

i know the generator shit

[opal basalt]

Blades

[short radish]

be more specific in your question and scenario

[sullen yarrow]

nono but for some reason

[swift tinsel]

shadowcraft or shadow blades

[sullen yarrow]

i get full combo

[hazy breach]

Shadowcraft

[sullen yarrow]

after doing opener

[short radish]

your answer will be this

[swift tinsel]

premeditation

[short radish]

or this

[iron whale]

I think the guide I got for Delves has me talent Subterfuge?

[sullen yarrow]

i think is shadowcraft but im not sure

[short radish]

or this

you cant just ask "what gives me full combo points"

[sullen yarrow]

because im just like doing my rotation and i feel like i get full combo points when i alredy hav them

[dusk stone]

You do

Its called shadowcraft

Its in the guide

[hazy breach]

I would not recommend subterfuge anywhere, tea, cb and supercharger are just way better

[sullen yarrow]

i knot it may be in the guide, but looking for this specific would be faster asking here

since yall are the best rogues

in the world

[short radish]

of course but learning how to teach yourself will be faster in the long run

[iron whale]

when to use cold blood? on cd? or in specific windows?

[opal basalt]

At least your honest about just being lazy and wanting a fast answer

[hazy breach]

With sectech

[short radish]

what happens if we don't buffed in midnight

and the rogue discord gets shutdown in protest

[opal basalt]

Specifically 2nd sectech in blades

[short radish]

then who will you ask

[dusk stone]

Lol

[opal basalt]

They might not ret-ify our rotation

[dusk stone]

That ret pally thing was hilarious

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[grizzled sage]

hey, if anyone can take a look id be very happy : )

[opal basalt]

Pala discord has been mental for quite some time

[dusk stone]

Someone else can do log duty

[opal basalt]

Friend of mine got dmd by a mod for asking a question

With like “go read your shit before you come here”

[dusk stone]

Ofc theres no asking question in ret discord, you plant face on keyboard and roll otherwise is offensive

[lucid jackal]

Never tried it, but the lift has been my go to for a few years now

[maiden oar]

i see

maybe i go back to vertical

[swift tinsel]

my old coworker used a mouse like that before and it felt so weird in my hand,but nice on the wrist

[iron whale]

sorry can you be a little more casual friendly?
no idea what sectech is 😵‍💫

[dusk stone]

I tried one of those mmo wrist numpad things once

[hazy breach]

Secret Technique

[swift tinsel]

someone in my guild uses foot pedals and one of those weird claw things

[hazy breach]

one of your buttons

[dusk stone]

It seemed like you could optimize a lot with it but so much muscle memory to unlearn

[swift tinsel]

he's old though so I chalk it up to that

[short radish]

foot pedal is good for ptt

[dusk stone]

The thing i liked with it was that there was a joystick on it

[iron whale]

oh lol

thanks Eleem, sorry

[dusk stone]

You had double the options for movement essentially

[hazy breach]

Np bud

[iron whale]

is this good?

I was ignorantly a subterfuge user cause I LOVE double vanish...
but I guess it wasn't doing me any good

[hazy breach]

Would suggest you drop shadow focus for finality

But otherwise ye looks fine

[maiden oar]

too scary if you get used to it and you want to talk while driving

[hazy breach]

Tea probably more comfy to play with in open world content, but cold blood is fine too

[lucid jackal]

dude +3 talents is gonna go so fucking hard

vigor AND tea

holy

[iron whale]

even if it's just 1pt?

[hazy breach]

Ye

[lucid jackal]

Gloomblade about to go crazy in midnight

[hazy breach]

Gloomaxxers rise

[shut ridge]

legit gamechanging I am never going back

[hazy breach]

(not me)

[dusk stone]

Yeah if we dont have better options is the thing, arent they adding more to the trees as well

[iron whale]

how so?

[maiden oar]

arent you forced to spend new spec points on the apex thing

if they tune it correctly

[hazy breach]

Spec tree we probably have to use the new points on the apex talent though

[lucid jackal]

More energy = more backstabs = more gloomblade value

[hazy breach]

Whatever that means

[iron whale]

but then you suggest I give up alacrity and deeper stratagem for tea?

[hazy breach]

No

Swap cold blood for tea

[iron whale]

to compensate?

[opal basalt]

Megasett is playing on one of those

[dusk stone]

I forget what its called wish i could show

[opal basalt]

Razer tartarus

Or sth

[daring moss]

for mm+, do u play with shuriken tornado ?

[dusk stone]

It would take like 3 weeks to learn and then forever be worth

[maiden oar]

theyre neat but the dpads break so easily

[dusk stone]

It wasnt tartarus ill go look

[hazy breach]

You can, it doesnt feel particularly smooth to use though

Sim thinks its good, but most players arent using it

[daring moss]

okok

[dusk stone]

Oh thats actuallt very similiar

[hazy breach]

I dont particularly like it either

[dusk stone]

Yes that thing it goes crazy hard

[iron whale]

btw guys I'll be honest: I play both Sub rogue and Havoc DH.
everytime I come here it's always chill, have good inputs and help and constructive talk.

in the havoc/devourer dh discord channel it's full of edgy kids being dicks all over the place.

[hazy breach]

It has some anti-synergy with the shadowcraft talent

[opal basalt]

You mean the joystick?

[dusk stone]

All of it

[maiden oar]

theres a dpad under it

the joysticks a cap

[lucid jackal]

These are the M+ talents I play with

[opal basalt]

Oh true

Now I see it

[dusk stone]

Access to double the binds and joystick for movement optimization

[mental shore]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[dusk stone]

Well i was going to at one point do mouse + that thing

[somber tendon]

how do you turn off the auto thistle tea bullshit gang

[maiden oar]

if you can get a warranty or something its probably ok

[dusk stone]

You cant unfortunately

[short radish]

you seethe and cope

[tribal blade]

hilariously enough both sin and sub don't use tea for energy

[short radish]

I LOVE PRESSING BACKSTAB RIGHT BEFORE THE PACK DIES

AND DRINKING A TEA

WOOOOOOOOOOOO

[somber tendon]

okay now since the chat is active can someone please link me a working auto tricks macro/weakaura? the ones I'm finding just on the first google results are not working

[silk brook]

I haven't played sub in so long I forgot that part of thistle tea was a thing for some reason

[short radish]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[dusk stone]

Tea does proc sometimes when you need to rupture

[opal basalt]

Wait you’re playing CB in keys?

Like ALL keys?

[hoary lotus]

you guys have a list of dungeons you play db over shadowcraft?

[swift tinsel]

you can play either or

[somber tendon]

that one is updated? that's the one I used season 1

[tribal blade]

you can play either CB or tea in keys

[hoary lotus]

!darkbrew

[tribal blade]

both work

[short radish]

works for me

[tall girder]

Wooo fimb

[lucid jackal]

ya why not

[short radish]

yeah
all of them

[short radish]

i saw that!

[tall girder]

Auto correct

[opal basalt]

Yeah ik both work, just thought tea was like the overall better choice as it says in the wowhead guide

[dusk stone]

Cb is completely fine for keys

[short radish]

do be like that sometimes

[dusk stone]

It does better prio with sectec

[hoary lotus]

what is cb

[short radish]

tbh cb probably better in organized groups

[dusk stone]

Cold blood

[short radish]

that can pull around your cooldowns

[hoary lotus]

o

[tribal blade]

i much prefer using tea

mostly because of vigor

[opal basalt]

Idk tea just never is up when I need it

It’s always getting sucked up in downtime

[dusk stone]

You bind it to dance

[opal basalt]

I know

[short radish]

abbreviation for chee bai which hokkien slang for calling someone a c*nt

[opal basalt]

But that doesn’t change it being on 0 charges before next flag because I had to backstab for 15 seconds

[silk brook]

I mean one can argue that you were gonna crit that finisher anyway so cb was useless 8)

[dusk stone]

Yeah i wonder about that, if tea ends up not being good because you dont get charges where you need

[opal basalt]

I think I’ll try out guys build there tomorrow

Kinda miss CB in keys

[dusk stone]

I dont like the non tr build just because its not consistent

[opal basalt]

You mean Rotten with tr I assume

[dusk stone]

Yes

[opal basalt]

Understandable

[tall girder]

@short radish does myth need more shadow priests

[dusk stone]

You end up being forced to spam storm at times and only time you want to do that is outside of cds

It will run out in your window

You also wont have tea to fix energy issue of doing that

[opal basalt]

Will have to see for myself how annoying that gets

now tho

Gn

[short radish]

dunno

we did just lose an evoker

who did mechanics

is a sad day

[gleaming locust]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[iron whale]

ngl, I like a lot the "shadow damage" fantasy of Gloomblade, Lingering Shadow and Dark Brew
too bad they are not viable......

[lyric lily]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[dusk stone]

Dark brew builds were viable last tier, but not gb though. I like the fantasy too, part of why i wish DS sub wasnt garbage.

[lucid jackal]

Gb was good in S1 on deathstalker

cuz of lingering shadow

[storm cloak]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[storm cloak]

i can't seem to get my 2nd sectec in my first dance, when playing FD talent. Atm im just hitting dummies. I'm doing a symbols on my 5th evis and i just am always like 1sec off

i feel like im missing something

[dusk stone]

Whats the combo of thingsbwe have stacked for making 2nd sectec good

[swift tinsel]

flawless form

and flag stacks ig too

[young mural]

flagellation and flawless form

[dusk stone]

Is it just flag and cb ramp + flawless

[young mural]

and possibly danse macabre high stacks if you manage to get your 2nd sec tech into your 1st dance (with the 1st dance)

[dusk stone]

How many flawless form stacks are we seeing at the back end of 2nd dance

[hazy breach]

You dont always get it, especially if you dont have coup up, but its fine

Just use it asap, you dont need to get it in the first dance

[dusk stone]

Arent we suppose to get 3sectec per burst window

[hazy breach]

Not really

[swift tinsel]

if you get lucky

[hazy breach]

Sometimes you can get 3 of them in flag

[storm cloak]

i think i figured it out to get it, seems like you need to supercharger stacks before pull

thank u

[hazy breach]

But its not something that happens everytime

[hazy breach]

Ye, but those are infinite so you can just use it 5 minutes or something ahead of the pull and theyll stay there

[dusk stone]

Seems like you just wait for 2nd symbols to supercharge and then cb

[hazy breach]

It resets down to 2 once you pull a boss though

[dusk stone]

Or is something falling off by then

[hazy breach]

And for bursts in the middle of the fight you'll have coup

[storm cloak]

good to know W

[hazy breach]

Quite a lot of flawless now. The #1 is my first sectech and #2 is my second, first is with like 3 stacks the second is with ~16 stacks

9% more damage VS 48% more damage from flawless form, a slight difference

[dusk stone]

Im correct you just send 2nd sectec with supercharger in cds right or

[swift tinsel]

yes

[dusk stone]

Because there being more than 2 implies cdr and sending a naked one or something

[swift tinsel]

you send every sectech with supercharger

unless its a naked one outside cds

[dusk stone]

Out of curiousity without amps how big of a hit are we talking if it gets cb

[rocky sparrow]

Guys if my wa does not properly track supercharger im trolling hard asf right?

[swift tinsel]

not really

[young mural]

no

[swift tinsel]

if you keep track of how many finishers you send after hitting symbols

and make sure sectech is one of them

[rocky sparrow]

i do not keep track of that i just try to make sure that sectech is one of them

[swift tinsel]

through normal gameplay you don't really need to keep track of it imo

[dusk stone]

Does the default ui makes supercharger harder to track or something

You get clear blue cp when you have it on elv

[solemn creek]

this warpclaw trinket is very underwhelming XD

[rocky sparrow]

Ok ok

[solemn creek]

priori 11, 723 warpclaw vsd 704 prism

[rocky sparrow]

im just new to rogue in general and i wanna be good at sub too, cuz some raid fights look way better for the spec

[swift tinsel]

they're blue when they're filled

its pretty easy to tell

and they have the embellished circles/x's around them

[lucid jackal]

I just keep track of it in my head

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dusk stone]

The tldr with supercharger is you always hit symbols and sod right before your gonna use sectec 100% of the time

[swift tinsel]

eh 90% with 4pc

you're sending more naked sectechs

[dusk stone]

Whats the other 10%? Coup with fazed?

[swift tinsel]

nah you're just not always sending sod with each sectech

but sometimes you're sending it with an evisc to pull sectech's cd

[dusk stone]

Thats what i mean, if you press sod, sectec is getting used

Unless odd circumstance

That too but sectec becomes 2nd supercharger

If we get cdr for 3rd sectec in cds is that one naked or we have symbols for that too

[swift tinsel]

you'd probably use sod to pull sectech's cd to be able to cast it thrice in cds

[rocky sparrow]

the space between opener and getting big cd's again is smnth that still confuses me ngl

[dusk stone]

So it'd be naked?

[swift tinsel]

no

you cast symbols with ~10sec left (~14 with coup ready) on sectech cd

evisc/coup to get it off cd

then cast with 2nd supercharged combo point

[dusk stone]

Ah so in the event 3rd sectec comes up you'd still have symbols prolly

[swift tinsel]

you should

unless you messed up and hit your pre-pull sod like right before you pulled

[dusk stone]

In the event you dont and its up, is it worth sending it naked then or no

[swift tinsel]

even then you'd probably have it

eh idk haven't thought about it much

[swift tinsel]

whatcha mean

[dusk stone]

I just see sectec sit there while im in cds sometimes and remember naked sectec bad

[swift tinsel]

you have your opener/big cds and then 1.5min later you have them again

I mean naked sectech isn't 'bad'

there are times it makes sense to do it

[rocky sparrow]

I struggle to keep up with dmg using minicds, i just sod sd tech or evi as soon as i get them but idk if its a mistake or no

[lyric lily]

Whats the macro line that prevents you from using multiple charges of an ability that’s macrod? For Thistle tea for example?

[swift tinsel]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[dusk stone]

Yeah but it might interfere with theoretical 4th sectec being supercharged later so idk

[weary kite]

does it matter if sectech is first finisher on dance?

[lyric lily]

Thank you!

[dusk stone]

I try we see what happens

[dusk stone]

1st or 2nd

[swift tinsel]

you anchor your symbols/dance use with secret technique between big flag windows

[dusk stone]

What confuses you

[swift tinsel]

typically send 2x symbols/dance/sectech between first set of big cds and second, 1x symbols/dance/sectech between second and third flag, 2x between third and fourth, etc

with new tier set might be able to do 2x between each flag window

[worldly remnant]

Yea it's only doing like 1.5%, pretty underwhelming

[swift tinsel]

using them on cd as soon as they come up will make it so you don't have 2x symbols/dance/sectech for every flag window, which is our number one priority

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[fallen depot]

is there a target counter WA? or is it Good luck

[swift tinsel]

each of these has a good explanation

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[fallen depot]

bless

[rocky sparrow]

gotchu, i didnt got it fully right in the guides. My brain melts if i dont ask

[swift tinsel]

that's totally fine, one of the purposes of this channel is to ask clarifying questions if things in the guides don't make sense

sub is weird when you're learning it but once you get the gist of it it's pretty automatic

most specs wanna send their cd's as soon as they're up but sub has a bit more planning to do between burst windows

but it's extremely flexible which is really cool

[rocky sparrow]

yeah it has too many active modifiers, im used to the modifiers being more passive

i come from dk so

[rocky sparrow]

yeah, choosing when and how i want to blast stuff is so great

Really underrated class in general

[swift tinsel]

the big things are making sure you use supercharged combo points on secret technique, and being able to cast 2x symbols/dance/secret technique in each flag window

the rest is a lot of fluff

[slender beacon]

question is using ST when your cd's are down the wrong thing to do?

[swift tinsel]

depends

if you know you'll have it ready by the time flag comes up you can send

[rocky sparrow]

my wa does not track supercharger fml

[swift tinsel]

its not necessary to track, as long as sectech is the first or second finisher after casting symbols you're good

and you'll only be casting symbols if sectech's cd is ~10sec or less or its already up

so it kinda sets itself up

[dusk stone]

This is part of why i ask someone make full rotation with visual example even if that scenario isnt perfect i got super lost too when i was new

[swift tinsel]

basically the whole spec exists to maximize the damage of sectech in and out of cooldowns

[hazy breach]

Ye i unironically love doing almost 0 damage for a while since i know ill be banging real hard in a bit.

[swift tinsel]

it's the most empowering feeling I stg

[hazy breach]

Like on pylons on araz, im barely beating the tanks

[swift tinsel]

watching the name climb

so much dopamine

or the sudden leap from 8 to 1

[hazy breach]

But then im rising from #11 to #1 during the damage amp

Big dopamine indeed

[swift tinsel]

its so rewarding when someone else says something about it in disc too lol

[dusk stone]

Burst specs are my preference

They just feel good

You always get to direct damage where it matters

[steel zinc]

How are you timing prism on that fight?

[swift tinsel]

current sub, even with its weirdness, is still the best spec in the game

the most fun

hands down, bar none

[dusk stone]

Do bosses in keys feel like they take forever to die for you guys?

[swift tinsel]

I've only been running up to 10's but not really

[dusk stone]

My brain keeps telling me the boss should have died a minute before they do

[fallen depot]

are you just supposed to yolo send vanish?

[dusk stone]

No

[swift tinsel]

usually use for premed cdr

unless you're doing the extended opener with pre-disorienting strikes

or if you gotta cheese a cast or something

[dusk stone]

Vanish is for tfd in keys and to a lesser degree for cp in raid. But if a mob is going to root you, or if a trap in priory gets you, vanish breaks the root

[hazy breach]

With amps

[alpine wraith]

on araz you send on amp then on last phase i think right?

or well i mean the amp that takes you to last phase

[steel zinc]

0 during the trash spawns?

So not using at 90 sec?

I don't have ritual forge

Just feather

[hazy breach]

That add set kinda dies before my sectech anyway

Doesnt matter much

[dusk stone]

Eleem you do high keys right

[hazy breach]

Not right now but yes i have the title

For most seasons

[steel zinc]

Ok 👌

[dusk stone]

I was gonna ask how sub feels in high keys compared to sin

Is it just gonna be another sin situation or we legitimately good there too

[hazy breach]

Nah sub is good

[dusk stone]

Any idea why casual running sin for most things?

[steel zinc]

Sin is good when you play around it. But in general if you can't drag on most bosses trash onto the boss like dawnbreaker sub is better

[dusk stone]

Testing or some math behind it

You do the same for sub, sub just benfits by deleting the trash

[steel zinc]

As said if you can't funnel most bosses in a dungeon you play sub

[solemn mauve]

where is the macro dance with backstab ?

[hazy breach]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[steel zinc]

Nah Sin needs funnel to actually do good competitive st dmg with bleed

[solemn mauve]

tttty

[steel zinc]

Sub can do with raid build. Nearly it's full aoe potential

[dusk stone]

In my 12 earlier i ended demo duo with 16mil because of trash on boss

Sub really appreciates that stuff too

[steel zinc]

That's just overall

I am talking funnel into boss

[dusk stone]

Depends how hard you stack prism

But yeah

[steel zinc]

Sub doesn't care much about funnel since you don't storm evis

[hazy breach]

If you pull mobs onto bosses as sub youre like "thats neat"

If you dont pull mobs ontop of bosses as assa you want to end your life because youre doing s2 damage

[dusk stone]

You think in high keys its pteference or do you get stuck at 20 instead of 21 because less dps

[steel zinc]

And if a dungeon like dawnbreaker were it is not possible to drag trash onto 2 /3 bosses you play sub

[lucid jackal]

Probably because its week 2? of the season

People r just playing shit and trying it out

All 3 rogue specs are good rn for keys

[hazy breach]

Probably better to just ask him

[lucid jackal]

Also true

[steel zinc]

Yeah you can play w/e in keys just for sanity if you pug as sin I would kill myself

Sin in premade is fun in pugs cba

If a tank doesn't get you funnel to the boss it's just so bad as sub you do not care

[clever hollow]

So cold blood macro and and shadow blades aren't working when trying to ppress it together in a macro.

Anyone got a working macro?

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[swift tinsel]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[short radish]

why are people macroing cb into sblade

[steel zinc]

Idk that's some cook

[short radish]

this is the 2nd person in 24 hours thats asked

[steel zinc]

Maybe new cook but makes 0 sense to me

[clever hollow]

i just moved it to secret tech and it works fine.

[short radish]

well they should be pressing sblade after sectch anyway

[steel zinc]

You can press while pressing sectech blades

[short radish]

yeah but cb wont apply u nless you press it before

[steel zinc]

Do you send all 3 symbols charges during the Amp for maximum damage? So overcap?

[steel zinc]

You mean to sectech

Or I am now cooked?

[short radish]

yeah

[bitter halo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[dusk stone]

Cognitive overload from so many binds in short order i assume. Theres a lot of new people

Ive seen the same question askeded and answered twice within 45 seconds

[steel zinc]

I mean nice to see people playing sub

Last tier felt during farm I was with the other 3 people in this Discord the only one playing the spec

[dusk stone]

It is i just wish people would at least try and look at the guide first

[steel zinc]

I mean yeah but also the spec isn't easy to start

Like it's hard to learn even harder to master

Sub can shift so much damage around during a fight it's insane

[short radish]

tbh i dont think sub is that hard to learn

people just need to accept that not pressing buttons is okay

[swift tinsel]

it can depend on where they're coming from

[short radish]

okay nevermind maybe it is hard to learn

[steel zinc]

Yeah but that is so rare these days

[short radish]

yeah and i hope it never goes away

[swift tinsel]

regulars in here are a bit of a sampling bias

[steel zinc]

Like sub is planing a fight in advance and during big burst playing piano and then go afk

[lyric lily]

During Major CDs, is it worth trying to sneak a last second secTech right as the first SD is about to end, or just wait to send with the second SD?

[steel zinc]

Yeah explaining sub to some other melee is like rocket science

Outlaw is easier to start sin even easier

Sub fuck up one damage window you are done

[steel zinc]

If the clones of sectech are in the dance then it's fine. They come 1 sec after you pressed sectech

[swift tinsel]

1 and 1.3

[short radish]

having to justify auto attacking the pylons in araz intermission to the raid team

[swift tinsel]

so its a little tight

[steel zinc]

That's standard

[lyric lily]

Ah okay- ill just not risk it then. No point

[short radish]

last night "why the fuck are you competing with the tanks for damage on the pylons"

[steel zinc]

During first dance you can do it 9/10 times

[lyric lily]

Yeah, seems doable but the risk doesnt seem to be worth the gain

[dusk stone]

You should ask them if they do or dont want the boss dead

[steel zinc]

Yeah but your pressing alt f4 with the boss during dmg amp

[short radish]

no prism though

[steel zinc]

If you have roughly ~13 sec to you next sectech and 4 sec dance left go for it

[short radish]

so im more just clicking end process and hoping it acutally closes

[steel zinc]

Your cooked

[short radish]

i dont understand our trinket luck

[steel zinc]

Like you need prism otherwise go bench

XD

[short radish]

we've run NM + HM with 30 people

twice now

and had 0 prism drops

[steel zinc]

U got forge?

[short radish]

we've seen one forge

and 0 antennas

[steel zinc]

I don't have forge hc feather and NM prism

[dusk stone]

Im sry to hear that

We got 3 in 1st week

[steel zinc]

Dam that's cooked

[short radish]

like im acutal so doomed on trinkets

[steel zinc]

U did splits?

[short radish]

nah no splits

i want to

[dusk stone]

Nope just killed frac once

[short radish]

but RL doesnt

man 3 in one drop is insane

[dusk stone]

No antenna in 4 clears though

[short radish]

honestly i was low key hoping we wouldnt kill araz

[dusk stone]

It was something, apparently his loot pool is small

[short radish]

so i'd have more trinket luck in vault

[steel zinc]

If you have 2 slot mythic vault and last hc chance for forge is 18%

[dusk stone]

I need to do heroic frac this week

[steel zinc]

Normal one is fine too

[dusk stone]

I have prism

[steel zinc]

The mythic prism is the one scaling out of control

[dusk stone]

I imagine

[steel zinc]

Like that thing scales insane

[dusk stone]

I saw how much the upgrades do

We gonna upgrade from kiloton to megaton range sub nuke

I just offer 500k for hc prism if its not guildy run or something

And cope thats enough

[steel zinc]

I'd just offer more

Like gold comes and goes

So easy to get decent gold in this game

Like one NM vip boost gets you 300k for like an hour

[bitter halo]

New to sub, when in M+ is rupture spreading recommended?

[lyric lily]

During mob gathering and outside of CDs

[silent geode]

you guys its cool to use lily + prism or nah

[bitter halo]

What’s the easiest way of spreading rupture?

[lyric lily]

Probably while the tank is gathering mobs.

[sullen sparrow]

Is Cursed Stone Idol good for us? I saw it is top 3 trinkets in bloodmallet but dun see any rogue using it.

[serene notch]

people dont know how good we are

😄

[lucid jackal]

literally

[lyric lily]

I feel like thats been the case since like… ever?

[silent geode]

i find it clunky

[bitter halo]

I’ve been sin for years, so switching

[lyric lily]

Assa has had the spotlight since the rogue rework in DF, i feel like

[trail bane]

many just dont like the playstyle

of rogue in general

[bitter halo]

Just want to know how competitive is sub in raid and m+

[lyric lily]

Very

[trail bane]

looking very good

all specs

[lyric lily]

Much better than last season

All 3 are absolutely pumping in m+

[trail bane]

but you pump even better with a premade tank if you know the pulls

as sub

[lyric lily]

for sure

[storm cloak]

last question, is anyone having issues with TFD being bugged (while hitting a dummy at least) where its just giving me random times for dance, first it was 10s then 10.6s

[lyric lily]

Nothing worse than having CDs up and the tank pulls 3 mobs

[trail bane]

yee

[lyric lily]

One of the reasons i find outlaw appealing. Great pug spec.

[trail bane]

true

prob best pug melee

or havoc

[lyric lily]

Ret too

Any spec with high CD uptime

[bitter halo]

So the recommended builds on the wowhead guides are the ones to use?

[lyric lily]

Yeah

[bitter halo]

Cool 👌

[trail bane]

funnily i always do more overall with the old build

[lucid jackal]

assa has been the most popular rogue spec forever

[trail bane]

this one

[lucid jackal]

Simple to play, chill experience overall

Outlaw is swords, which a lot of ppl dont like generally speaking, and then RTB exists

[trail bane]

even in big pulls its working better as tea for me

[lucid jackal]

and then Sub is always seen as hard to play

[lyric lily]

Sub reminds me of old fire mage.

[bitter halo]

I used to play Sub back in Legion

[trail bane]

i started as outlaw, then tried some sin, now switch between sin and sub, but something in sin always annoys me

[clear scroll]

can someone explain to me when to use black powder in M+?

[trail bane]

deathstalker is jsut meh

[lucid jackal]

4 or more targets

[bitter halo]

Yeah it’s the mark that’s annoying

[lucid jackal]

unless u want focus damage

[plush roost]

imagine having skyfury bshout chaos brand or PRISM

[lucid jackal]

Like the swarmguards in arakara

[lyric lily]

Same lol. Also when you have tanks that pull in weird ways, making re-stealthing awkward or impossible

[lucid jackal]

No reason to press BP yk

[lyric lily]

Nice what key?

[bitter halo]

So nimble flurry is the cleave ability for sub?

[plush roost]

ara 15

[lyric lily]

Yeah, is like blade flurry

[lyric lily]

Good job! Huge overall

[bitter halo]

Is the cleave strong?

[dusk stone]

Casual posted 17 dawnbreaker

[lyric lily]

Its typically my highest source of dmg in any given m+ run, so id say it is

[dusk stone]

Think ita double on use w/ cb

[trail bane]

bless my friend who traded me this antenna in raid for free on his alt and not taking 2million offers from guys

[lyric lily]

O: the netherprism!

I got a feather from last TW. I got lucky 😌

[trail bane]

i think i got a cloak pre fix

😄

[clear scroll]

is there a problem macroing symbols into dance?

[bitter halo]

So mastery then vers in stat prio?

[trail bane]

but i cant complain i had 5set pieces 1st week

unbelievable luck

[lyric lily]

You can, but it may not be recommended

[dusk stone]

You will need 2 more keybinds to then do them seperately as well

[trail bane]

yes but just sim ur gear

[dusk stone]

Its what i do no big deal

[clear scroll]

tyty

[lyric lily]

Why, exactly?

[dusk stone]

Because you need symbols for stuff seperately like supercharging sectec. You have 3 symbols and 2 dance

[lyric lily]

But would you ever use symbols without SD?

[lucid jackal]

You space them out differently in flag

[clear scroll]

with premed, do I want to open with backstab instead of shadowstrike from stealth as well as first global after dance?

[dusk stone]

Sometimes you want and/or they are put of sequence because of CDR as well

[lucid jackal]

Macroing them together is only a downside

[ornate heron]

for m+ is it okay to take the 2 points out of finality and move it to inevitibility and the rotten?

[dusk stone]

I just said you would yes

[willow pawn]

do we still run rotten in M+?

oh

someone asked just now

xD

[dusk stone]

You use symbols for sectec sometimes and no dance

Dance also gets CDR so it doesnt always line up with symbol

So you need seperate keybind for both

[abstract dock]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[rocky sparrow]

bro im doing ass in hc dimensius 🙁

[dusk stone]

What are other ppl doing

[rocky sparrow]

im the sub guy

[dusk stone]

I see

Did you send every flag with 2 or 3 dances

And did you hold stuff on 2nd add in p2 so you could slam burn

[rocky sparrow]

yeah i did

[rocky sparrow]

And maybe i missed a dance

[dusk stone]

Wdym

[rocky sparrow]

i think in a flag or two i missed a dance

cuz it was the tank push thing

or weird pool positioning

like i feel i cannot hit the guy without killing myself for pools

[dusk stone]

If you dont send flag with 1.5 dances minimum it is a bricked parse

[rocky sparrow]

next week better then

[dusk stone]

Thats just melee optimization problem

[rocky sparrow]

like in the first pools i see the whole melee part filled and idk what to do

[shell willow]

greed

[rocky sparrow]

or how to help everyone to think of our melee uptime

[dusk stone]

Apparently you stand on the very edge

Sub is hard spec to get good parses on if not expert

Exile and others get them because they can see the future and know what will be sent where and dont make mistakes

You are new to sub yes?

[rocky sparrow]

yeah to rogue in general

but i wanna practice sub for forgeweaver cuz loomithar is almost dead for my guild

so

[dusk stone]

For mythic?

[rocky sparrow]

yep

[dusk stone]

I see

Do you have 4p and prism

[rocky sparrow]

4p no prism

[dusk stone]

Prism is mandatory

Champ or veteran even

Your guild should be giving you that trinket

#1 priority no question

[shell willow]

Yeah i need a forge badly

[versed swift]

anyone have a meld macro that actually works?

[cursive mason]

/cast shadowmeld

[versed swift]

[cursive mason]

[rocky sparrow]

we havent got very lucky with the prism drops imma be honest

[dusk stone]

Any single one will do

Its literally sub if sub was a trinket

Allows you to move damage around

Im not sure but i think exile sent 18 stack prism into p3 burn

[rocky sparrow]

yeah im drooling for prism

[shell willow]

what other melee is it good for?

[iron imp]

my hunters and blood dk say its bis

[dusk stone]

And you can tell then they can wait in line on the parse meters

Sub is literally bis for raid

[rocky sparrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1408959779946365039.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=LIZARD

[versed swift]

12 stack

[dusk stone]

Oh really

[versed swift]

used it first plat form

and let it restack for p3

[dusk stone]

He 3 stacked somewhere then

[lethal yew]

When chaining your shadow dance and symbols in your opener windows, do you refresh them as soon as the original buff is up? Do they pandemic at all?

[lucid jackal]

[rocky sparrow]

Ok so, do not fuck up by any means the flag windows, and get netherprism asap

[dusk stone]

Well yeah

Theres other things too prolly but thats the big one

Not fucking up flag also involves getting full value from it

Like you dont waste half a flag phasing the boss

[stoic pier]

Is there any locked type cd for m+ drops? I've done more than 5 floodgates + priory +10~12 and no drops yet 🥲

[rocky sparrow]

So seeing the future aka just prepping movement

[dense mountain]

yo guy, i find myself in this situation a lot in keys currently. how would you do a CD when you have coup ready and your going into your SB window?

[dusk stone]

That and we kinda know when flag will be sent and where

In keys i know to send a dance or send flag depending on what tank pulls next

Raids are more scripted

You are likely sending as msny flags as is reason p1, flag on p2 add 1 and then sending 1 dance on 2nd add

Stacking prism and stuff befote burn

I have not done it my self so its just me guessing

[crimson wind]

Swapped to sub from sin today and WOW the damage is feeling good

[rocky sparrow]

Yeah i see. It revolves around being super prepared

[lyric lily]

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```

[dusk stone]

It becomes a lot easier with time

3.4 is fine

Thats good st damage

Also the intermission on dimensius seems like its 20s at least if not 30

[rocky sparrow]

Idk im doing the good stuff numbers on assa. So not doing the good atuff on sub too feels bad

But i kinda wanna weave between both cuz sub is amazing for some fights

[dusk stone]

Youre suppose to yeah

Were about 4/4 this tier according to guy

[lyric lily]

I notice that sometimes when my shadow dance ends, im still able to send shadowstrikes for full CB, what ability does that?

[alpine wraith]

if you can shadowstrike your dance didnt end yet

[lyric lily]

hmm okay

[cedar willow]

On a first dance, are we supposed to send the second secret technique +cb inside our first shadow dance, or right after pressing dance a second time?

[plucky parrot]

press it as soon as it's up

just be sure to press your 2nd dance asap so the clones are still affected

[wheat elk]

dance is off gcd you can press it right after pressing secteq

[cedar willow]

I guess my question brings them, does sec tech snapshot the dance macabre stacks or nah?

[upbeat sorrel]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[upbeat sorrel]

if i stop using finishers do i just keep pressing backstab/shstrike?

[maiden oar]

yea you backstab

[bitter halo]

Who’s the best YT creator for sub?

[abstract dock]

Question, do i press shuriken storm with the 4 pc even if I have max combo points? For example, I press coup get 7 points from shadow technique, do I storm or press coup again?

[plush roost]

The only reason we storm is to build cp between coups to not waste unseen blades

[rocky sparrow]

Big d, nexus king, forgeweaver and? Hunters?

[plush roost]

So no, you just coup -> coup

[abstract dock]

Thanks, what if coup and ss doesn't give me 6 cp. do i build up to 6 to do next coup proc?

[plush roost]

You only storm in cds, shadowblades always fill cp with storm so that issue never occurs

[chrome fern]

also afaik the shuriken thing is ONLY during blades

[plush roost]

In regular dances you just press strike anyway and lose stacks of unseen

[fallen depot]

is there any reason to send Secret tech without Shadow dance in opener

[abstract dock]

gotcha tyvm

[plush roost]

Shadow dance has a 30% damage amp + danse macabre

[fallen depot]

yeah so u always wanna send Sec tec after dance and symbols right?

[chrome fern]

unsure when / how you are getting sectec not in a dance in opener

[fallen depot]

looking at logs from like number 3 person and he was sending it before Shadow dance

[plush roost]

Is it within 1 second

[dusk stone]

hunters yeah

not a good rogue fight from what i hear but sub is fine if playing rogue ig

[chrome palm]

!def

[plush roost]

If you sec tec, your clones strike at 1 and 1.4 seconds so you can fit in extra buffs late and they still benefit

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[maiden oar]

would i be smart or dumb if when i have coup stacked and im ready to do a regular dance i go dance -> coup -> symbols -> strike -> coup -> strike -> sectech

[plush roost]

Send log, but it just sounds like they messed up which can happen

[mossy hatch]

is it ok to put flagellation and shadow blades on a macro?

[plush roost]

You lose 3 globals worth of sblades so yeah pretty bad

[mossy hatch]

thanks

[chrome fern]

roast me for it, but i have 2 sectec macros, blades + sectec, and cb + sectec

[plush roost]

Sec tec cdr > coup damage amp in sims iirc. For st anyway. In aoe theres more of a reason to do so

[maiden oar]

i see

ive been playing it like s2 but i wonder about it sometimes

since wastes less escalating blades

[plush roost]

Yeah eleem checked and its basically always a loss outside of some very specific scenarios

[maiden oar]

ah ok ty

[fallen depot]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/btNy7BvcXFKRngmH?fight=77&type=casts&source=26&view=timeline

[chrome fern]

sectec is after dance there?

[plush roost]

Oh the second

[chrome fern]

inside first dance still

[plush roost]

Yeah hes playing 12 second dance and had enough cdr to sec tec a second time in it

[chrome fern]

your first dance also has extended duration

from stealth

[plush roost]

Happens frequently

[fallen depot]

ahh okay

[chrome fern]

@plush roost on that log, 25s, he sends a dance just for coup, is that right? or should he have delayed for the sectec / symbols

[swift tinsel]

might have been trying to sneak the dance in before the clones hit

missed by 0.50 sec

[chrome fern]

that's rough, cause he hits it right at the end of previous dance too

[swift tinsel]

ye not being able to spellqueue dance sucks

would have nailed it otherwise

[plush roost]

Missed spell queue moment unlacky

[chrome fern]

ok, now tell me how dumb am i for macroing symbols and sectec together

[swift tinsel]

you don't always sectech as first finisher after sod

sometimes you cast sod in order to pull sectech cd with an evisc

[chrome fern]

i figured as long as the finisher after sectec still makes it into dance it shouldnt matter

[swift tinsel]

in fact I think opener is the only time you usually sectech first finisher after symbols besides a danceless sectech

[chrome fern]

it misses out on the flexibility of being able to shift symbols around based on coup procs

but makes up for it in me not having to use mental

[swift tinsel]

there's too many situations with sub that having sod/dance/sectech macro'd just doesn't really accomplish much besides making you try and figure out new keybind for macros

bc you'd need like

six

to accomplish what you can do with just 3 keybinds that you can press together/quickly

outside of a trinket+blades macro, or bs+dance macro the rest are just not really good

or worth it imo

[lusty root]

no healer, 2 chested, +10 second week of the season lol

had no guild healer on and someone needed one more for vault

[swift tinsel]

someone send to jb

[lusty root]

he will lose his mind hahaha

[round latch]

so much yellow in this sacred place

[chrome fern]

the irony with a red name

XD

[round latch]

satisfied now? 😛

[chrome fern]

rip

[fallen depot]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x8aPXZhrqR1tGLb7?fight=65&type=casts&source=778&view=timeline

can yall check this out and lmk what im doing wrong?

i feel like outside of cds needs work

okay i was like.

i coulda sworn

lol

[chrome fern]

my dumb ass looked at shadowstrike and thought it was evis, idk how

1:30, flag inside dance not great

ffs i am cooked

[fallen depot]

true true

[chrome fern]

what happened between 2:16 and 3:13 to not sectec

[fallen depot]

i wanna say i didnt have something lol idr exactly

do u just send sectec naked ?

[chrome fern]

for a whole minute? you'd be able to get a dance charge in there too

[fallen depot]

i need to record vods lmao

but you right

[fringe lava]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[chrome fern]

im not 100% sure on the rules of naked sectecs, someone else would be better equipped than i though

[fallen depot]

for sure

ur probably right tho i think i brain farted or something

was there anything else you noticed? im trying to find out how im missing like 1m dps

[haughty saddle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[short radish]

you're sectecching too early is one of them

you're doing a flag -> backstab -> sectech

[fallen depot]

thats what the opener says no?

[short radish]

no

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[chrome fern]

it does tho

[short radish]

flag into rupture

then backstab sectech

[chrome fern]

is that not that?

[short radish]

yeah but afterwards

it's really krangled