subtlety

[hazy breach]

If you are at full cp you would not backstab

[limber relic]

Yeah I know the math works but in reality it just doesn't feel like it. I might be crazy though

[dusk stone]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[dusk stone]

all the folks here sim stuff so the numbers are reliable

[opal basalt]

just pad

you're not brought for prio anyways

its just that simple

[swift tinsel]

If you wanna tunnel into a prio mob and let nimble do nimble things that’s fine

[dusk stone]

our prio is really strong actually

you legitimately can have that role if needed

[opal basalt]

yeah for sure

[dusk stone]

it is actually one of the big reasons to bring sub, that you CAN do that

[limber relic]

Yeah i was gonna say with CDs you can prio a mob better then anyone

[compact violet]

backstab for the first but on the second some top log press shadowstrike instead

i guess its a missplay

[opal basalt]

yeah but isnt our main prio from double coup and sectech?

[dusk stone]

you backstab the 2nd if you don't have CP they stab because of premeditation giving full cp

read the guide, it will cover all of this and more

sub is detail oriented class

[opal basalt]

not from using evis instead of bp in the rest of the cds

[swift tinsel]

Probably why they’re asking clarifying questions

[dusk stone]

yo you 2chest a 12 gambit and priory and apparently ppl still think ur not good enough for 12s

[opal basalt]

shit happens haha

as always need to time all 12s with ur own keys first before being taken to pug 12s

[limber relic]

True story...I only need 2 more 12s and barely get invited at almost 2900 io already

[dusk stone]

prob just gonna have to run my own key

[short radish]

WHO NEEDS PARTY BUFFS

kinda fucked up cds in 2nd room

since tank was pulling like a bitch

[opal basalt]

almost 7m overall

[short radish]

shoulda been like

7.5

but we take those

[opal basalt]

idk i'm kinda getting around the 6.5m in 10-12s rn

but pug tanks dont like me it seems

[short radish]

this is eco dome so lots to aie

ive seen 8-9m before

[opal basalt]

eco dome is insane

very nice key

[short radish]

ye

replacing this as well finally

[limber relic]

Pug tanks have been bad to start the season....need the bad to widdle out

[opal basalt]

packs live long enough so you basically have full cds for every pack

[short radish]

too bad its not streets shoulder

but 20 ilvl is 20 ilvl

[opal basalt]

i have so many slots to upgrade still

but thats because this is my alt

[swift tinsel]

Same but runed crest cap is bothering me

[dusk stone]

this was from me sandbagging giga hard in a priory earlier

[swift tinsel]

Flooded with hero track gear

[dusk stone]

sub very good

i could have had like 9 or 10

[limber relic]

You should be able to be done with runed this week if you didnt upgrade anything under 701

[zenith prism]

@hazy breach does the 4pc bonus still work on the first coup?

[hazy breach]

no

[opal basalt]

we're not getting the runed crest discount without upgrading another belt to 704 first, right?

[limber relic]

Right

[opal basalt]

ahh annoying

[swift tinsel]

Ye I’m just about there, I need a hero track ring yet

[limber relic]

I literally just need 701 chest and hands to drop and im done with runed thankfully

[swift tinsel]

And wep unless you can still swap the slot and have it count

[zenith prism]

so sod should be used on sectech and second coup, is that correct

[opal basalt]

bracers and legs on my main

[dusk stone]

i was on a journey to get dawnbreaker ring

[hazy breach]

No

[swift tinsel]

I sent second spark on wrists

[dusk stone]

my teammate got b2b2b signet drops there

[opal basalt]

couldnt on my main

[dusk stone]

two of them being forced upgrades

[tulip dune]

How many targets am i supposed to shuriken storm/black powder on? all 3 of the guides say different target coutns

[hazy breach]

Just sectech

[dusk stone]

i ran it 20x and got zero

[opal basalt]

i crafted offhand with a bit of copium of getting the myth track int mace from first boss

[swift tinsel]

I need to buckle down and farm DB ring

[opal basalt]

now i had to craft weapon yday after killing it

[hazy breach]

Theres no way reliably get it on sectech and second coup, and its not that big of a deal anyway

[limber relic]

Believe it should be 3 standard and 4 during dance

[swift tinsel]

And possibly get dagger in the meantime

[opal basalt]

just be me, be the only rogue in an echo hc split, 3 daggers drop off of loomithar

that was the easiest week 1 weapon i ever got

[swift tinsel]

Lol we’ve only had a normal netherspike drop so far

Our loot drops have been giga shit

[limber relic]

We had 2 drop off loomithar heroic week 1 and im the only rogue lol

[opal basalt]

i think it was decent for us

got a few antennas, like two prisms

[swift tinsel]

Think the only raid loot I’ve gotten besides that was hero track shoulders off loom

[limber relic]

We've had 1 antenna and no prisms :/

[swift tinsel]

No antennas yet, one normal prism and one hero forge

[opal basalt]

let me check our rc history rq

(i'm a healer main, i dont get loot until no one needs it anymore anyways)

but i did get quite a few offpieces on which others were luckier in keys than me

[clever delta]

In keys i run double on use aswell right?

For juicy pulls

[tulip dune]

do i weave in backstabs for unseenblade and flawless form or just slam shuriken storm n black powder

[slender totem]

why do i sometimes stay at full CP after spending on a finisher?

[opal basalt]

yeah 4 antennas (2 champ 2 hero) and 2 prisms (1 champ 1 hero)

[dusk stone]

shadowcraft, its in the talent tree

[opal basalt]

i wonder when and if our guild rogue will play sub

gotta talk a bit more to him

[slender totem]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[wheat dragon]

where can I find a good sub guide ?

[dusk stone]

sub rogues for raid are actually kinda hard to find

many play sin and not sub

[rocky lava]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[opal basalt]

yeah

[hazy breach]

Idk maybe, regular dance are actually quite strong so losing out on a lot of passive stats seems kinda meh

[wheat dragon]

which offers more unique guide?

[opal basalt]

maybe on the bosses on which you dont want a rsham i could sneak my rogue in

but thats heavy copium

[rocky lava]

all 3 of them are good, all 3 guide writers are also here : )

[hazy breach]

As well as when you end up holding cds its kinda scuffed, ive seem casual not use his forge for like 4:30 at some point

But idk maybe the on-uses make up for it

[lilac stag]

we're a gigasmall community.

[rocky lava]

somehow I managed to beat an UHDK in a 13 priory

[lilac stag]

i was trying to look at forge + prism on soulbinder. my brain kinda hoping for an antenna lol

[dusk stone]

mythic pacemaker is surprisingly close

[hazy breach]

Ye on that boss it also seems kinda sus since youre holding for like 2 or 2:30 if you want to pad

So using forge at 30 and then next time at 4:30 seems so bad

[opal basalt]

i'll never play 2x on use

just fuck that

[lilac stag]

i need to farm up the pvp trinket and test it

[hazy breach]

I looted an antenna from my vault

[lilac stag]

nice. i liked the m+ build on soul

idk if that's the play or not

[dusk stone]

i see a lot of new sub rogues in here all day, i look in m+ key and only see 1 sub

many rogues though

[lilac stag]

people are sub curious. then they play it and brain metls

usually 2-3 weeks = tapout

[dusk stone]

not even

[rocky lava]

their hopes are high for sub then most of them end up playing assa

[dusk stone]

if subs gonna break you it will be like 3 days max

on that note

[lilac stag]

nah most will give it a good go. right now in keys you can play any spec so its just a matter of do you want to or not

[dusk stone]

ive been thinking about making an infographic about sub rotation

like as a new sub rogue myself, the guide is kinda hard to process

[lilac stag]

the graphics in wowhead are difficult to process?

[rocky lava]

its "hard" until it ticks

[dusk stone]

if like you just show the entire 90s rotation bar by bar though i wonder if thats not easier

maybe ppl freak out at that tho

[dusk stone]

very, it took me reading it 10x to grasp a lot of it and not because its written badly

seeing like the full 90s rotation would have helped instead of having to guess the stuff between openers

cause that stuff is very uncertain if youre not a sub rogue

[rocky lava]

but that is the thing, there are moving variables that skew the 90s window and you have to adapt based on those

[dusk stone]

yeah idk is the thing

its a barrier to entry having to guess tho

what i did was learn the opener, learn 2 dances between cds and layer the optimizations ontop

which was fine, just your 1st day feels bad figuring it out

unintuitive is the word

[opal basalt]

idk, i learned the spec through reading wowhead and then figuring out why hekili presses certain things

[hazy breach]

The inbetween dances arent that important

[opal basalt]

now i play it with hekili in a corner just as a safety net in case i forget something

[hazy breach]

Doing the burst well is the most important thing

[opal basalt]

absolutely

[dusk stone]

yeah but like you get lost if you dont know what to do

i get getting the burst right is big

[warm marlin]

I’m about 30 minutes into a full guide thing (more inspired to finish since the Whispyr video) that I might finish someday

[dusk stone]

sure its somewhat easier to figure it out im just wondering if there's not some way to make parts of sub easier to understand

[opal basalt]

i sometimes wonder what i'd change to make sub more chill

combine flag and blades into one cd would make the most sense to me

[novel quail]

hey dudes, im using the CB ST macro and my cold blood isnt going on cooldown . Anyone else having an issue with this

[opal basalt]

we only press them together anyways

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use a weakaura to get a reminader: >Open on Wago.io <

[novel quail]

gotcha thanks

[opal basalt]

thats the good part about being a diehard assa hater

i'll never run into this problem

haha

[lilac stag]

the 3:36 minute video or the 40 minute one?

[untold bone]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[untold bone]

could anyone link the SD backstab macro? (double clicking

[lilac stag]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[untold bone]

tysm

[slender totem]

lets say ive done the correct aoe opener and my SD and symbols drops off do i just use them both off cd when their up again alligned and keep pumping untill the pack is dead?

[hazy breach]

I tried making one too but i wasnt really happy with how it turned out, too rambly and too long, but covering most things/everything just makes it so long

Idk

[hazy breach]

As long as youre able to use 2 dances, 2 symbols and 2 sectechs in your next blades you can do whatever you want

[steel jolt]

Whispyr made a 3h video you gotta get on his level

[slender totem]

i see, whats sechtechs?

[hazy breach]

Keep sending if the pack needs to die, hold if its not that important or if the next pack is important

Secret technique

[slender totem]

oh im dub ty

dumb

alright ty

im kinda doing less dmg as sub compared to when i went assa so far

io nly have 2 set

[hazy breach]

But generally not sending symbols or dance when flag has ~30s left is the play

[lilac stag]

not surprising

[hazy breach]

Well ye, subs 4 piece is amazing

Without it youll do way less

[slender totem]

maybe i just wait for 4 set

[dusk stone]

the correct on 1st pull opener is 3 sod dances or mobs dead

[slender totem]

gotcha!

[summer crest]

Is it much of a loss, or any at all, if Cold Blood is sent on the first Secret Technique of an go rather than the second?

[lilac stag]

1-1.5% ish

it's proper to use it second

[hardy agate]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[summer crest]

May I ask what the reason is? Do we just have more powerups built for that second one?

[lilac stag]

it does more dmg, but yes everything is more empowered

[hazy breach]

Flawless form stacks

[summer crest]

ah. Its just so awkward to have a second cb bind for how i like my binds haha

[lilac stag]

it does not take long to get get used to it

we dont have that many binds as sub

[summer crest]

Ironically thats the issue, it doesn't map on well to my other classes and specs layout :/

Thank you though, I will make it work 🙂

[compact violet]

What are we doin with the third sod stack, do we sens one alone at a moment on raid fight

[frigid prawn]

Is that also for m+?

[hardy agate]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[graceful osprey]

Is there a targeting macro for better targeting to spread rupture?

[short radish]

mouseovers help

[limpid sage]

I just have mouseover as default

[graceful osprey]

Is it effective even when there’s like 10 billions mobs stacked around you?

[swift tinsel]

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Rupture

[limpid sage]

yes but at that point it doesn't make sense to spread ruptures

[swift tinsel]

or just let replicating do the work for you and don't swap targets ig

obv will get less ruptures out

[short radish]

yeah

[limpid sage]

don't remember when it becomes inefficient to rupture over bp

[short radish]

either you just send sdance + bp

[limpid sage]

what target count is it again?

[short radish]

or youre tab targetting rupture in aoe

[swift tinsel]

idk I just cast 2 then a third with flag

so I'll have six out

idk I don't think about it too much

refresh after cds end

[graceful osprey]

True but just something easier than tab targeting

[swift tinsel]

continue BP confetti

ye use the macro I posted

[cursive vapor]

that would be a dope glyph

[swift tinsel]

so you don't have to swap targets, just mouseover and if no mouseover target it ruptures your target

[swift tinsel]

like Grunt Birthday Party from Halo lol

[short radish]

like the gw2 legendary pistol

that'd be sick

[graceful osprey]

I’ll give it a shot thanks

[distant sage]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[swift tinsel]

that macro string is useful for a lot of stuff, I have a bunch of abilities macro'd that way

[hazy breach]

Assuming you have replicating specced and the targets arent dying immediately it never happens

But ofc the faster they die the more it skews towards BP

[swift tinsel]

ye I just do lieutenants/blue mobs usually

[limpid sage]

Wouldn't bp come out equal at around 8 targets?

[hazy breach]

If you only go by the tooltip yes

But rupture is gonna get buffed by dance and stuff

[limpid sage]

ye but nothing bp isn't getting buffed by right?

[hazy breach]

And tooltips are notoriously not accurate in wow

[limpid sage]

rupture does bypass armor though

[small hemlock]

Which race did perfecto change to?

[dry zodiac]

You’re applying the ruptures outside of dance, then when you press cooldowns they dynamically update and tick harder. Once you cast the black powder the damage is done, it doesn’t get buffed when you enter dance afterwards

[hazy breach]

What, i just said a bunch of stuff

Ye like koreth said

[swift tinsel]

dance, sf, dd

[limpid sage]

ahhh true

[tepid trellis]

orc

[small hemlock]

Look like regular orc

Yeah

Ty just saw it on the stream

Blood fury over maghar for sub I take it

[vale pine]

7 Minutes simulation
8 Minutes simulation

^ race sins if you want to see dps diffrences

[small hemlock]

lol no

[dim patrol]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[small hemlock]

Apparently he changed to the wrong race 😂😂😂

They’re all making fun of him rn

[small hemlock]

Always appreciate you Fuu x

[swift tinsel]

Rip

🫡

[limpid sage]

ah true you're somewhat boosting a cast inside dance even though it's cast outside it

[mystic minnow]

I see in the rotation list to only finish on 6+ cp in dance now, but if we get 5 from ss should we still finish? Don’t wanna waste a gcd and combo points on another ss, right?

[void ocean]

so ppl in mythic on 3rd and 4th boss play full st?!

[hazy breach]

Another shadowstrike yes

[vale pine]

lol

[hazy breach]

Finish at 6+

[warm marlin]

Everything feels very intertwined so ya it kinda is hard without rambling

[vale pine]

what was he supposed to change to

[dusk stone]

holy

i just got accused of being sub fotm reroller

we are legit meta

[mystic minnow]

Ok, it didn’t make sense to me but if that’s how it is, that’s how it is. Thank you!

[runic trail]

The time is now

[trail bane]

hey guys, is thistle tea talents or cold blood better for m+? I see top logs use CB, but recommended here and wowhead is thistle tea

[swift tinsel]

Either or, tea is a lil aoe bump and cb is a lil st bump

Basically dealer’s choice

[trail bane]

so higher keys CB wins prob for time

[vale pine]

both is good, you can decide based on preference

[trail bane]

or streets ST heavy dungs

[swift tinsel]

Prob depends on comp

Or dungeon

[vale pine]

ct is stronger on st, tea better with more targets

[trail bane]

dungeon slice sims also prefers CB but i think Dslice favors ST so that makes sense

[vale pine]

dungeon slice sims tea higher

[swift tinsel]

I’m sitting at close to 30% unbuffed crit after shuffling some stuff so tea feels nicer for me

[trail bane]

ye prob bc my gear

[swift tinsel]

PvP badge crit injection was noticeable

[vale pine]

possible

[trail bane]

also dark brew is better in aoe than shadowcraft true?

[small hemlock]

Maghar I imagine

They cut the chat short because they were pulling but they came back from a break all laughing saying we can make fuck of Perfecto later 😂

[dusk stone]

bro getting called a fotm reroller as sub is wild

i carried the bars for that one too

[vale pine]

haha possible

[dusk stone]

like i can understand if i wasnt 20% ahead

[vale pine]

i mean diffrence is low

0.6%

[dusk stone]

but how u carry someone and get called fotm reroller

[small hemlock]

True but at that level

.6% is higher so they will do it

Margins are so tight rn

https://tenor.com/view/tesco-every-little-helps-slogan-gif-26978717

[vale pine]

alright

hope he uses symbols pre pull then to get the extra supercharger points

[dusk stone]

nvm died to stupid i was bad

[small hemlock]

Must be it’s free damage

[vale pine]

i don't watch his stream, i could turn in and see

[robust dust]

Hey. New to sub. Can someone explain me when to use shuriken storm in ST?

[hazy breach]

If you have shadow blades and the 4p buff

But its minor, if youre new its not a high priority to focus on

Making sure you do your burst window correctly is by far the most important thing

[small hemlock]

About to wipe might be a good time to

[robust dust]

And without shadowblades? Never?

[hazy breach]

Correct

[vale pine]

nope, just strike without blades

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[robust dust]

Tyvm

[lilac stag]

Think it’s slightly bigger change for assa with hooman

always funny watching human go and down as the expansion goes on

[vale pine]

human is usually better later in the xpac

no?

lets see

[small hemlock]

Doesn’t look like he’s doing it fuu

[trail bane]

dark brew sims lower for me in 10 target patchwerk than shadowcraft hmm

[small hemlock]

Should whisper him

[vale pine]

ill take a look, thy take quite a bit before pulling

he might did it after getting ressed

[frank narwhal]

Aside from when you have a coup de grace ready, is there any point in doing dance/symbols when you have <10sec SecTec, instead of just waiting for SecTec to be completely off cooldown? As long as I’m not capping on charges of dance or symbols, it feels like I’m rushing to get a sectec instead of waiting for a few globals

[vale pine]

Alright, time to 🔍
Assassination 8 Min - Race simulation

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[vale pine]

0.3% seems not much

[wicked swift]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[small hemlock]

You can do a cast sequence macro to shadow dance also so you can press dance 2x and get a danse stack by backstabbing as your first builder

[patent lichen]

I knew this was a sub tier, everyone in guild called me crazy but who's laughing now

[vestal escarp]

Ngl double coup is a bit nuts

[graceful osprey]

I think sub is doing better than I expected. I think especially when people start getting 4pc and knowing fights, sub should climb more

I’m still at 2pc

But I got my crafted weapon so I’m chilling

[tepid trellis]

still gonna absolutely blow on fractilus

[craggy atlas]

What's the point of the find weakness tracker if you still always just BP on 4+ targets?

[cursive vapor]

with find weakness active you can bp on 3+ targets

[craggy atlas]

you mean if i have find weakness up on 3 targets?

[cursive vapor]

nah in aoe if the find weakness debuff is active, you can bp on already 3+ targets, not 4+, but overall bp on 4+ targets works fine

[craggy atlas]

Sorry this might be a dumb question then but in this case shouldnt it still show BP? Since find weakness is on 1 target only but i fight 5 targets

FW tracker is there on the right

[meager coyote]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

thats so irrelevant.

0.3%

[steel zinc]

on pure st fights over 3+ minutes it sucks

[vale pine]

well kinda my point

[steel zinc]

yeah just agreeing

[vale pine]

if human would fall off with time in the xpac

you would see a more dramatic diffrence

so the theory is in a sense disproven

[meager whale]

So basically 40% of the raid?

[steel zinc]

the whole raid is add fights that matter

[fathom adder]

if you have no blades active and the double coupe proccs, do you storm until you got 5 cp+ even if you need more than 1 storm? or only if you know 1 storm is enough to fill your cp

[steel zinc]

like 1 fight is pure st

every other fight has adds

so its w/e

you play 5/8 bosses sub and the other 3 it doesnt matter

[hazy breach]

Only during blades

[fathom adder]

ok thank you

[steel zinc]

seeing fractilus nerfs I argue the first boss is more dificult 😄

just have a wa sort it

[meager whale]

I was thinking more in time fighting a single target

[craggy atlas]

Im watching R1 rogues in m+ using some random eviscerates in big aoe pulls during dance instead of BP.. what am i missing? xd

[hazy breach]

It does more damage to the maintarget

[steel zinc]

most fights switch intermissions pretty fast and it all lines up perfect for 90 sec cds

[craggy atlas]

okay so its strictly just a prio dmg thing?

[fallen marsh]

prio dmg

[fathom adder]

Do i understand it correctly that if you would fight 10 targets and you would use bp over evi, even if it is pad (just to explain my train of thought) you still would use the 2 procced coupes over bp ?

[craggy atlas]

then the followup question, the find weakness tracker is kinda pointless no? it confuses me because in this scenario its showing eviscerate:

[vivid cobalt]

why do we use Shuriken Storm between Coup casts?

[meager whale]

So 1st/2nd Boss on myth Assa, fractillus assa, rest sub?
For not being in a regular CE Guild, that might end up >40% of the raid. But that’s just for me then 😂

[hazy breach]

Yes, sectech > coup > bp/evis is the priority

[graceful osprey]

I find it that my dps is pretty solid for the first few minutes but as the fight drags on, I drop a bit. Of course there are people higher ilvl in my guild but I’m not super far behind. I’m generally in the middle as far as ilvl

[steel zinc]

just send a log

[fallen marsh]

if you know how to and u like using the wa u can always go in and change the icon to whatever

[cursive vapor]

if im correct then to not munch unseen blade

[steel zinc]

because you describing some generic fight doesnt give you probably the answers your searching for

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[swift tinsel]

it shows evisc bc there's one target with fw, but it also requires you to know if you're fighting more than one target

because it is, as the name implies, a find weakness tracker

it was more useful when there was disparity in when you used BP based on number of FW debuffs out

but now that you just BP on 4 targets its w/e

its probs only really useful now for 3 target fights to know when all 3 have fw

but that's niche

[craggy atlas]

yeah okay that clears things up quite a bit 🙂

thanks ❤️

[vale pine]

^^

[valid vault]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[round grotto]

guys my rogue is like 3 days old gearing wise and i don't do any mythic raiding would u recommand me to craft 2 weapons or craft 1 and wait for next week and see

[swift tinsel]

craft 1

[vale pine]

only craft one weapon

[swift tinsel]

offhand is negligible so you're better off making something else with 2nd spark

[void hound]

craft one, off hand is a bad slot

[vale pine]

offhand weapon is one of the worse upgrades

[valid vault]

is it bad to have really low crit?

[graceful osprey]

True, I’ll send something later. My guild is doing heroic run later today

[steel zinc]

sure just open a log page. I can check later if you want

[vale pine]

no, but you will long term probably take a bit crit because vers/mastery fall into higher dr regions

[round grotto]

thanks didn't know that

[vale pine]

so its usually better to either use one of the high budget slots if you know you won't get a good item there fast

or something safe like rings

e.g. most rogues currently just take a weapon

and will likely craft a ring/bracers/belt 2nd

[short radish]

fuu how likely you think sub will "drop off" again like in season 2

[vale pine]

hard to say

subtlety is not doing well on single targte

[tawny river]

should we be secret techniquing twice in first SD with the first dance

[vale pine]

and most of the "drop off" will come from buffs/nerfs

entirely possible that we see buffs to other specs/classes

[short radish]

mhmmm

because the outgearing will mean subs burst isn't needed as much

another classic when everyone gets stronger we get weaker

[vale pine]

also adds dying faster due to more gear could make us worse

[short radish]

thats it time to start dooming

[vale pine]

yep

[short radish]

ITS ALL OVER SUB IS GOING TO BE DOG SHIT AGAIN

[vale pine]

i mean, lets just enjoy the tiem beeing

[short radish]

[vale pine]

and see how things develop

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

[short radish]

always do

[swift tinsel]

nope we're dead

delete rogue

[short radish]

i am going to play sub on fractilus

unless my RL finds out where i live

and puts a gun to my head

[vale pine]

haha

[swift tinsel]

lmao

I mean it doesn't feel awful

[short radish]

it was kinda feeling bad on loomi

[swift tinsel]

but I wouldn't mind a lil st bump

[short radish]

i only realised 10 pulls in

that i was just frontstabbing the entire time

[swift tinsel]

like 3% st damage

max

[short radish]

sprocket v2 electric bogaloo

nah 5%

give evis a 8% buff or something

[swift tinsel]

nah give it 50%

evisc to the moon

[alpine wraith]

delete BP make sec tech do next x evis cleave

big buff to evis

kill DS

[swift tinsel]

and each cleaved hit nimbles

we crashing cpu's

coup is a 900 damage event spell

[short radish]

wasnt there a bug in bfa right at the start with assi rogue FoK azerite talent

where if it crits it echos again

except those crits could then also echo

[dusk stone]

but i like the class fantasy

[vale pine]

there was a bug in the last season of Legion with one aoe trait

which then got fixed but lead to assassiantion getting buffed

which did break the balance between the 3 rogue specs and made assassiantion the best spec for the rest of the xpac

[alpine wraith]

i will never forget how they killed first dance

then made it give haste

then killed it again

or echoing blades was supposed to be sub then given to assa

or replicating was so good

then they murdered it

[dusk stone]

also

sub being b tier at start of this patch is in hindsight hilarious

[vale pine]

it made kind of sense

assassiantion got a single target last minute buff, so it looked extremely potent

and it is, you can see it e.g. on fractilus

the burst windows with fatebound align equally to subtlety, and the burst is about the same

but

[plush roost]

I mean if it werent for raid buffs, do you think they bring a rogue at all? And not another ele sham?

[vale pine]

assassiantion also saw some last minute aoe nerfs

[plush roost]

Sub isnt S tier, its just the best rogue spec profile for these raid bosses imo

[vale pine]

and the last 2 figths have a very dynamic layout with vulnerability phases, adds and downtime

also our trinkets are rly good

[strange chasm]

turns out being able to move cds is really really really strong!

[hazy breach]

Tbf that is the reason why its tuned so low

[vale pine]

prism was a bit undervalued by many

[hazy breach]

For pure ST

[plush roost]

Ye if sub was tuned properly for st it would indeed be stier

[dusk stone]

i believe the list referenced was for keys too

[alpine wraith]

yea sub is quite decent at st even

if we go by overall metrics

like top 10 of 1x

[vale pine]

being the worse spec on pure st

hmm

[alpine wraith]

sometimes it is what it is

[vale pine]

or you mean in dungeons

[alpine wraith]

this time they forgot to nerf the tier set

[vale pine]

we have lower trade offs from talents

which def. helps

[plush roost]

In dungeons its one of the best st haha

[alpine wraith]

to buff our builders

so we escaped

yea in dung other specs sacrifice a lot

to get their aoe

while we coast

i mean in a boss like frac

[vale pine]

if they wanted to buff our st

[alpine wraith]

because even plex favours us a bit as we can get to the boss fast from getting yeeted

[vale pine]

just buff evis

if they want to buff aoe

[tepid trellis]

WE NEED EMERGENCY BUFFS!

[alpine wraith]

intructions unclear buffed shadowstrike

[vale pine]

make secret target soft cap on 8 instead of 5

[vale pine]

!!

[hazy breach]

Youre the shadowblade, time to shut down the channel

[tepid trellis]

TRUE!

[alpine wraith]

time to shut down the channel and redirect people to #outlaw

[vale pine]

!shutdown

[alpine wraith]

!shutdown

[vale pine]

(if anyone is reading, we are memeing)

[tepid trellis]

tbf rogue in general could use a single target nudge

[plush roost]

How big of a backstab buff do you think it would take to make things like PV and lingering viable

[alpine wraith]

i like how aug is higher than dev

[vale pine]

-> #pvp that way

[alpine wraith]

because they can buff the strong specs again XD

[plush roost]

Just a lil thought goin through my head

[strange chasm]

my god please buff sub more 😄

[plush roost]

Lmao

[alpine wraith]

lingering and pv are so bad

you would need like a 500% buff

same as fatal intent

they could buff it by 1000%

and it would begin to do dmg

[plush roost]

Isnt fatal intent just bugged

[fallen marsh]

wonder if feral will falloff for pure st later

[swift tinsel]

it is but its also really undertuned

[plush roost]

And it doesnt calculate past a certain point

[swift tinsel]

stops proccing at 30%

[tepid trellis]

why would it?

[alpine wraith]

the bug is that it stops stacking at 35 and pops at 20 or smth yes

[tepid trellis]

feral is insanely good on single target

[alpine wraith]

but still very bad dmg

[plush roost]

My RL is a cat

[alpine wraith]

even if it stacked longer

[plush roost]

He has finally been given PI and its gotten to his head

Smh

[alpine wraith]

i like how warrs after buffs are quite good at st now

[vestal escarp]

Eat the raid leaders

[hazy breach]

I have a hard time seeing that happen unless its coupled with AoE nerfs

But it could

[alpine wraith]

tbh i like more of the wildstalker super dot druid

but claw is also fun

[tepid trellis]

could see it for sub

[alpine wraith]

yea they might buff evis nerf nimble

and we good

[tepid trellis]

i dont think our dmg is that rediculous that we couldnt get a 5% st buff

[chrome palm]

blizz allergic to evis buffs

[alpine wraith]

they saw the special tech of our cleave on dimensius

[plush roost]

Another day, another mutilate increased by 70%, ambush increased by 70%, 3% assa aura buff

[vestal escarp]

Why compensate with nimble tho? Sub isnt committing crimes in aoe

[plush roost]

We know it to be true

[chrome palm]

because if you buff sub st its aoe goes even harder

and sub is some of the best aoe

[plush roost]

They should buff shuriken storm by 15 energy any truers???

[alpine wraith]

true make shuriken storm 60 energy

so we lose the few players

[vestal escarp]

Truest

[alpine wraith]

that play this mess

but make it hit as hard as strike

so we also use it on st

[plush roost]

I meant go back to 35 D:

[alpine wraith]

every dance

XD

stab finisher storm finisher

big

[tepid trellis]

dev evoker does insane dmg in +10s aswell

yet their single target is bonkers

[alpine wraith]

dev evoker mastery is just not balanced

someome was trippy

[plush roost]

I would unironically support a talent that makes storm a better button to press in dance and its unrelated to me pressing it 3 times in cds in a row from crazy procs

[chrome palm]

its apparently ok that every ranged except boomie can be 4x stacked in raid

[alpine wraith]

beginning the pull with a 119m engulf

last time we had melee stacks when was it?

hmm

warriors on argus raid

and uh

[hazy breach]

Windwalker in undermine

[alpine wraith]

but did you have 4?

at most 2 or so right

[hazy breach]

3

[plush roost]

Fdk at start of nerubar?

[tepid trellis]

they had 3

[vestal escarp]

Frost and warr in palace

[alpine wraith]

well 3 is kinda up there for melee yea

[vestal escarp]

Nerubar

Frostdk

[plush roost]

Sub rogue in amirdrassil

[vestal escarp]

Assa rog in amirdrassil*

In race

[alpine wraith]

we had 9 ferals in nefarian

[plush roost]

Nefarian

[tepid trellis]

they ran 2, not sure i call that stacking

[plush roost]

!!

[vestal escarp]

That was the criminal stacking

[alpine wraith]

when was the last time you saw more than 4 melee stacked?

[plush roost]

Look man 1 rogue is already pushing the yellow budget

[alpine wraith]

or 4

[vestal escarp]

Cant remember

[tepid trellis]

CN

unholy dk i think

[alpine wraith]

ah true you could certainly play 4 uhdk

before they nerfed them 3 times

but sludgefist and generals kinda cucked you anyway

of melee

i remember they even didnt play warr because it was so bad for melee XD

[short radish]

DKs on broodtwister

[alpine wraith]

any guild had 5?

cant remember tbh

[fallen marsh]

and wars

[alpine wraith]

that is 2 and 3

[plush roost]

A world where things made sense

[alpine wraith]

i guess melee is just not made to be super stacked anymore

[weak hamlet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[weak hamlet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[alpine wraith]

but even ranged also dont stacked more than 4 too

so we cant super complain

[fallen marsh]

all we need is a feral and a survival hunter and its the perfect comp

[fickle mason]

!bp

[weak hamlet]

do we still backstab in SD once or outdated

[vivid cobalt]

is thistle tea preferred over cold blood just for the mastery bonus?

[vestal escarp]

Was about to say, that double rog is insane stacking already

[tepid trellis]

there was also survival hunter stack on two bosses in sepulcher

[fallen marsh]

holy fuck

lords of dread

[tepid trellis]

yep u basically couldnt play ranged on that fight

was quite funny

[alpine wraith]

ah dreadlords

that one was good

funny that it was such a tight boss but when we got there it was already nerfed

so became a joke boss

when at first the amp only worked on aoe spells

[tacit coral]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tender ferry]

Hi friends, I would like to know in mm+, when using black powder rather than evicerate in aoe.

[tacit coral]

is the shadowdance backstab macro not good to use?

[iron whale]

I was thinking: wouldn't it be nice to have subtlety rogue being visually reworked and upgraded into a void spec?
with some fresher animations and vfxs/sfxs?

[alpine wraith]

you wish my man

[iron whale]

wdym 🙁 ofc I wish

[jagged flicker]

Could someone please give me a small explenation for when to use BP as i'm confused when to use it

[vale pine]

probably won't happen if they introduce a void themed spec for the next xpac

[vale pine]

use BP on 4+ targets during dance

instead of evis

evis ofc still for coup

[astral axle]

the only animation change we need is to look more like when we black powder

[jagged flicker]

And use shadowstrike to build CP right?

[vale pine]

yes

strike

[swift tinsel]

@keen dome PURPLE AND BIG

[astral axle]

purple? big? midnight sub xpac confirmed

[dusk stone]

yeah

in ara 12 i feel the damage drop off with mobs lasting longer is this parse low from what you guys are getting in ara kara 12+?

i coulda been around the pally if i did better at last boss

[left ledge]

they have a way to buff our ST without buffing our aoe

i know the secret

[alpine wraith]

depends a lot on pulls

if tank goes righjt

you alt f4

[left ledge]

its hidden in plain sight

[alpine wraith]

sorry dog ate internet

[dusk stone]

there were a lot of smaller pulls ig

sub just wasnt doing big dam

i sandbagged some cd's into last boss but other than that i was fine, no deaths

i saw maybe 2 juicey pulls that run

[lilac stag]

Bomberman was really good and super simple to play too.

[dusk stone]

what is right path, smaller mobs or?

[keen dome]

that's me

[swift tinsel]

[vale pine]

what addon is it?

[keen dome]

although right now I'm just sitting here getting annoyed at Nexus pugs

fuck that fight lmao

Huh, apex talent is gonna be a single 4 point multi rank talent

[swift tinsel]

Wait what

hmge

I want to say 'interesting' but I'm skeptical

[dusk stone]

that doesnt sound good

[keen dome]

I guess that means your 4 new points are locked up in that

Although that's pure speculation, who knows

[dusk stone]

are we only getting 4 more points? thought it was 10

[swift tinsel]

10 total to split between class hero and spec

[keen dome]

3 class 3 hero talent 4 spec

no new class talents. 3 new hero tree talents (A row)

[dusk stone]

it sounds like we have an action skill or this game equivalent

[keen dome]

So hero talents are just spoken for

[dusk stone]

the sub talent if you will

[swift tinsel]

paragon talent node

or concordance

[wide ravine]

anyone got a sick way to track when to stop casting SD and SoD

for maximum gains

[dusk stone]

i bet it will be Deal 15% increased damage for 15 seconds, then deal reduced damage for the rest of the key

[keen dome]

haha

I bet it makes SecTec cooler

[dusk stone]

to line cd's up with flag you stop at 30-40 for raid and 20-25 for keys

30 if you want 3 dances instead of 2

[wide ravine]

dope

thanks king

[fallen crescent]

They are making double coop baseline

[dusk stone]

like officially?

[fallen crescent]

No

But blizz isnt creative

[vale pine]

think creativity is often drowned by strict deadlines and corparate greed

you see a lot of companies lately struggle and get stuck in cycles of re-releasing existing titles

[dusk stone]

this is top ara kara parse

9,009,131.0 for sub

that was around 66th highest ara kara parse on wcl if key level is accounted for

idk i blame me and the tank for being bad

[left ledge]

lets be real

our apex talent is going to be sepsis

[pliant topaz]

thats like saying " theyre making EoN baseline from the daggers" really? its official? no but blizz isnt creative

i think its more likely to say" theyre giving you super shadow focus as a talent"

that makes shadow focus 5% stronger

[left ledge]

super shadow focus

sub is desperate for an interactive capstone

shadowcraft is a good one

but its like the only one

[lilac stag]

Make goremaws great again

[left ledge]

how about

we stop with the goremaw

[wild hornet]

how about we make goremaw darkbrew viable

[left ledge]

no no how about

we ask for something new

PLEASE

[lilac stag]

goremaw + wm was such a good hit of joy

[warm marlin]

wdym we have danse allowing us to cast backstab in dance

[lilac stag]

They’re both fucked now

[dusk stone]

how about 2 charges of goremaw

[wild hornet]

goremaw was a funny spell

[wild hornet]

i say 3

each charge sends 10 akali souls

[lilac stag]

How are we getting anything new when our dev managed to not work on the new DH spec and ignored havoc and rogue

[swift tinsel]

please god leave Akaari in tww

[lilac stag]

like what in the actual fuck is going on with development

[wild hornet]

oh akaari

whyd i think it was called akali

[pliant topaz]

its akaari little bro not akali. akali is my queen that i perma ban cuz holy fuck cant play against htat shit

[wild hornet]

[clever delta]

already die twice with 18 stacks prism in keys

[dusk stone]

what is this akaari thing?

[clever delta]

not sure if that double on use isnt too much pressure for me:D

[left ledge]

akaari is sub rogue pet

[wild hornet]

just play xerath

and aim

[pliant topaz]

zed ot

p

her

ee

also how do u even play xerath into akali.

u get legit 0 prio once shes 6

what do u just afk under tower?

[wild hornet]

early gank

if your jg is smart

[pliant topaz]

theres no shot u gank an akali early

she doesnt die with shroud / e

[dusk stone]

liquid is up again

race is on

[wild hornet]

i only cant manage to fend off velkoz

i want him deleted from the game

[pliant topaz]

I havnet faced a velkoz i think in 6 months

in my elo no one plays him lmfao

[pearl copper]

Is the macro, secret technique and cold blood bugged or something?

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/antman-what-the-hell-happened-here-avengers-gif-18240147

[warm marlin]

Sleeping on azzapp

[wild hornet]

i stopped playing league

my last 5 games were the end of me

[pliant topaz]

hes UE not NA or yeah id get him probably

but also he plays bot not mid

[wild hornet]

consists of:
tarik jg
xerath jg
xerath into velkoz 3 times in a row

then i just uninstalled

[pliant topaz]

i dont think velkoz mid is playable in high elo, like post 6 youre just a potato with 0 prio

im the opposite. quit wow to go back to league and never been happier

surely with next weeks double assassin item buffs we can get 600 elo and hit challenger surely

[dusk stone]

anyway we have had our compensatory 1 week of hope

begin sub dooming

[wild hornet]

from a game with millenials that dont think to a kindergarten

peak

[fallen crescent]

It bugs if u put fb assa. Need to relog

[pliant topaz]

its giga fun specially when im in a challenger lobby and everyones like so much better than me and im getting railed mid trying to survive

banger.

[wild hornet]

their jungle the second i overstep river:

[dusk stone]

how is that any different from wow

[wild hornet]

then guess what

[dusk stone]

playing rogue

[wild hornet]

i miss my e cuz of a fucking iframe

[pliant topaz]

because im getting railed from skill diff not dev diff

[wild hornet]

and i dont have a kayn to autoaim my ult onto

[pliant topaz]

thats the difference

[pliant topaz]

ward or jungle track idk

but yeah it can be annoying

sa low mobility mages

[wild hornet]

i get greedy for the cannon

and in the next 5 seconds i find myself on the casting couch

[strange chasm]

Were any of you guys having issues with immune soaking on araz. It seems sometimes if you cloaked you wouldn't get the debuff but it would count but other times it wouldn't count as you being in the soak.

[pliant topaz]

like theres a lot u can do there tbh, like u can contest prio when u have either vision, or u know your junglers around, or u know their support doesnt have roam timer, or u know your bots on the map pressuring

like theres a lot of ways to know when u can contest for prio and when u cant

gmaes too hard ngl

[pliant topaz]

can i watch

[wild hornet]

no you can take the spot next to me

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/nairaman-pg13-swag-paul-george-gif-22712659

[tender frost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/78JXNVk9DPgytY3Q?fight=6&type=damage-done&source=9 anyone got mythic forge advice? got smoked in my burn phases

[pliant topaz]

last night my support locked in ivern, then we go in the game, im playing against a guy with 1400 LP

we won anyways, our jungler bent theirs over

[wild hornet]

tbf i mostly play league if i play w my friends

that arent my friends anymore

im not gonna soloq in league ever

[pliant topaz]

idk solo q is a vibe now

so much less trolling

less yapping (though i always muteall so idk)

games are less one sided

[fallen marsh]

just play ivern in any role works in masters will work anywhere

[pliant topaz]

like most games are just hard, rather than a giga one sidded fest

[wild hornet]

i never mute in case where someone actually has a brain to communicate

[pliant topaz]

idk if it works in masters chief

[pliant topaz]

they never do

legit never heard anyone say anything important

just ping

[wild hornet]

yeah once i saw someone draw a silly nono symbol out of letters

in the LEAGUE chat

[pliant topaz]

my goat

[wild hornet]

rare but happens

or usually im the one to do that

just to be asked why im buying cap early

[pliant topaz]

i think lowkey xerath is really good rn btw

they buffed him mid, and his items are kinda good

[crystal bone]

its definitely the mute all saving u there

[pliant topaz]

there was a xerath otp in kr who hit rank 1

[wild hornet]

oh what are the buffs they gave him

[pliant topaz]

mostly ap ratios

[wild hornet]

finally

we are eating good tonight

[empty plume]

can we track thousand cuts Unseen Blade cd reset?
having trouble WA crafting since there's no buff, can't tell if there's a combat log event or a hidden CD to work with

[fallen marsh]

theres legit a chall fill ivern otp in na rn lol

[wild hornet]

now i dont have to feel like a wet noodle with full build

[dusk stone]

highest sub parse on halls is 8.5, highest overall parse is havoc at 10.5

[pliant topaz]

no u cant accurately track it. its hidden on their end

[empty plume]

dafuq

[pliant topaz]

that guys 750 lp gm but yeah i guess as an otp maybe it works

ive had him a few times on my team

and its never a fun experience

when hes giga off role

[dusk stone]

sub is definetely up there for some of these logs

[wild hornet]

mentioning unseen blade - is it viable fitting both sectecs in one shadow dance (with tfd) while having high danse stacks or do i still send it on the next sdance

[wild hornet]

logs are a fallacy

[dusk stone]

top 5 in terms of overall but dh smokes us by a bit

[wild hornet]

sub sims shit on st yet im top 3

[dusk stone]

halls for whatever reason sub is not parsing

[vale pine]

in raid?

if so, congratulations your raid team is composed of paid actors

[honest dome]

you could've saved coup for the dmg amp there and skip rupture

[wild hornet]

expensive payment

[dusk stone]

priory has no good sub parses at around 8 mil

[tender frost]

ah i didn't even see that, thank you

[dusk stone]

i think the random russian dude hasn't gotten to it yet

[vale pine]

you pay with your sanity

[wild hornet]

true

[dusk stone]

nvm i found, we do indeed have good priory parse

[wild hornet]

i got benched on araz for not being on assa like the other rogue

[dusk stone]

sub is pretty good from looking at raw dps stats

beating sin a lot of the time

these are 15's/16's

[round grotto]

/wa

[wild hornet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[round grotto]

ty

[wild hornet]

@round grotto

yw

[dusk stone]

are we speculating its around 18's the sustain for sub won't be good enough anymore?

[chrome palm]

Sub sustains fine with tier I don’t know why people think it doesn’t

You do a lot of damage with just dance

[wild hornet]

honestly having double coup is a blessing from the heavens

[dusk stone]

surprisingly dawnbreaker is our worst key in 16's thus far

but again random russian man may not have done it yet

[wild hornet]

what specs are even best for each dungeon

[dusk stone]

outlaw is up there

[vestal escarp]

Evis 8%

[dusk stone]

im just trying to get some anecdotes

[vestal escarp]

[dusk stone]

not trying to come to long drawn out conclusions

[vestal escarp]

Pls mister snowstorm

[dusk stone]

why in the world are people trying so hard to run sin for db

[chrome palm]

They are sin otp

[vale pine]

let people have fun

i am happy subtlety is currently back

hope we can get mroe than 2-3 weeks of glory

[dusk stone]

my tank was telling me in ara kara that the big guys in split before 2nd boss cause adds to take 50% less damage if youre not targetting him but its not in mdt

[regal ingot]

ive never tried rogue because ive always been kinda intimidated by it....and this is the first season I said F it I wanna try and sub is just...its scratching an itch I didn't know I had. I love this spec so much. Honestly even if they nerf it ill probably keep playing its just so fun

[swift tinsel]

nah we're gonna be prime all season

[dusk stone]

hulking bloodguard

[swift tinsel]

more people get prism more sub rogues blasting keys

locking in 4pc and nuking dungeons

[regal ingot]

also random question - is the idol from HoA sim bait? I feel like it is but its simming crazyt high for me

[swift tinsel]

its okay

[dusk stone]

what you simming it against

[swift tinsel]

a bit cumbersome

[regal ingot]

Heroic HoC and thje empowering crystal

[dusk stone]

hoc got nerfed

[swift tinsel]

ye it was like 1.5% better than hoc for me

but ended up crate farming for pvp on-use

[regal ingot]

prism just won't drop for us lol so im trying to find an alternative, lilly also doesn't drop

ive been getting kinda shafted trinket wise

[swift tinsel]

Astral Gladiator's Badge of Ferocity for 700 conquest points

[dusk stone]

run it in normal if you aren't already

champion one still blasts hard

[regal ingot]

yea I am haha

[dusk stone]

hell veteran one prob blasts still

make sure to do your weekly for shot at raid gear as well

we got 0 antenna this week it felt bad

[regal ingot]

this is my current dungeon slice https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mYLXsJfRnirDwg43md9Vad

droptimizer

[empty plume]

followup question - do we send a backstab on aoe when nimble flurry falls off, hoping that we got a Thousand Cuts reset?

[regal ingot]

wait maybe thats ST

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/betTZUvhdJdJrZGT2sU9Jt yea that was ST, this is dungeon

[west tide]

guys i am owning araz st

[swift tinsel]

eh I usually don't worry about flawless form outside dance personally

usually just storming to spread rupture and getting kicks/stuns

[west tide]

is it just me or is anyone else ignoring what trickster does i cant comprehend it

coup what

[dusk stone]

its 20k crit every 1.30 with a little damage on it

[west tide]

idk man all i know is i do dam

[dusk stone]

crit is a good stat

[empty plume]

I guess if BP > evis then nimble flurry uptime is only affecting melee attacks at that point

[swift tinsel]

p much

your dance uptime is higher in aoe anyways bc of higher cp economy so it kinda evens out

[empty plume]

makes sense, you sacrifice some dance cd by using a less efficient builder

a tempting flickerstrike angle honestly

I'm sure it's not simulator bis, monkey brain just wants something consistent, controllable

[dusk stone]

what is it you're wanting?

[empty plume]

.

a better game dev team

[dusk stone]

i usually do yes because it interacts with strike

[warm marlin]

the problem with that talent is that thousand cuts increases attack speed too

Unlucky

And you’re spending energy on feint

[dusk stone]

what i kinda want to know is

why is our primary builder doing damage from bc

they even have talents for significantly buffing it but they do nothing

[vale pine]

i would love for feint to go energy less

[jaunty heath]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[crisp lion]

true feels so bad to press as sub

but button is so good

[dusk stone]

that is an awful part of sub, it got me killed earlier at 1st boss priory

[empty plume]

i am a mop classic main preparing for another retail stint for funsies, relearning from baseline pmuch so thanks for the answers

in mop we have 15 energy burst of speed, no cd no charges 100% uptime
20 energy feint, no cd no charges 100% uptime

strange to convert to retail and have less OP buttons

[swift tinsel]

ugh burst of speed my beloved

[sweet crow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PAGaY2w8dc93TvLC?fight=3&type=damage-doneCan

someone help me improve as Sub. Im doing shitty damage, and im new on the class

[empty plume]

I use this view for log review

compare to top 3 parsers casts -> timelines

usually reveals key rotational differences, subtleties maybe a bit harder to pick up (melee uptime, fight mechanics)

for starters, you are spending at least a global worth of time pressing 3 off-global buttons in your initial pop-off

usually keybind issue

could backstab once in each dance for a danse macabre stack
Mythic 100 opener
Heroic 100 opener

[wild tide]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[tender ferry]

guys someone can tell me when use black powder in mm+ ?

[swift tinsel]

4+ targets

[tender ferry]

even with the proc aoe finisher ?

[glacial hinge]

Is he doing prism every 20s? Or its the stack going up?

[cursive vapor]

should add a !bp

[frigid schooner]

are the talents reccomended in the pinned message really the go to ones? taking a look at the other top rogues, they do nto seem to run that build in m+

[swift tinsel]

if you mean coup de grace, you still cast that in aoe over black powder

if you have flawless form buff up

[tender ferry]

When i have this buff

[swift tinsel]

in aoe the finisher priority is coup de grace -> secret technique -> black powder

[next bone]

Dont you guys feel Rupture kidna feels bad to play? like IDK I dont like it in the rotation lol feels clunky

[swift tinsel]

yep but we're stuck with it

[tender ferry]

coup de grace is that ?

[swift tinsel]

yep!

[tender ferry]

@swift tinsel