How many splits you doing?
#subtlety
shadow lance
keen dome
It's probably relatively minor gain short term
fringe palm
How many splits you doing?
3 splits, did hc loomithar 3 times this id aswell
shadow lance
Damn, big gamers there
I don't have the faith to do that
I'm sticking in my semi-casual guild
Raiding twice a week and aiming CE
hollow spear
People out there doing more splits than I do progression raiding
shadow lance
Real
fringe palm
Raiding twice a week and aiming CE
that does sound way more fun than splits ngl
hollow spear
Kinda hilarious how two evenings of raiding turned into semi casual
Back in my day that was hardcore
More than two nights and I'm in big trouble
shadow lance
that does sound way more fun than splits ngl
It is, we don't have a lot of time for playing and optimizing but we doing great I think
And we laugh a lot
That's the most important
tight sparrow
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
strong shoal
Can someone link me the image of how you guys pop your CDs // order? I need to prove a point to someone
shadow lance
You how we do or or we supposed to do?
strong shoal
Very much appreciated my friend
inland totem
in aoe, as trickster sub, during shadow blades, I'm supposed to use shadowstrike, right?
keen dome
Ye. It flurries to mobs and does big dam. And unseen blades, etc.
orchid birch
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
void ocean
previously it was recommended that we use flag when we have 1 charge on SD and ~40sec left on cd of second charge, does that change with 4pc having more cdr?
spare quiver
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
shadow lance
previously it was recommended that we use flag when we have 1 charge on SD and ~...
Tbh, I aim for 1 charge and 30 sec cd
Cuz 1 charge and 40 cd left, I'm not always sure to have second dance
void ocean
i was hoping more for the other direction 😄
spare quiver
!guides
swift hollow
does it make sense to use flagellation with shadow blade?
warm marlin
previously it was recommended that we use flag when we have 1 charge on SD and ~...
It was 30-35 before, the set only adds about 2.5s to dance cdr before the second one
void ocean
sometimes waiting for that 2nd charge feels like forever especially if im holding finishers/coup
warm marlin
you certainly should not be waiting for the second charge
cursive vapor
does it make sense to use flagellation with shadow blade?
not in a macro if thats what you askin
shadow lance
does it make sense to use flagellation with shadow blade?
You mean macro'ed? No
warm marlin
that is very bad
swift hollow
You mean macro'ed? No
Alright
void ocean
you certainly should not be waiting for the second charge
i mean for that cd sweet spot 😄
i have a WA that tells me to flag 😄
warm marlin
oh less bad
wet idol
If you have to wait its that u used too many between burst
shadow lance
Doing nothing with coup up 20 sec before blade is still worth I think
void ocean
naa, i follow that 2-1-2 rule
warm marlin
the only change I’ve noticed with cdr is you can be slightly more aggressive with sending dances and send raw sectecs a lot more aggressively
shadow lance
I think Eleem confirmed that
void ocean
i have also WA that tells me to stop SD cause flag is comming
which is like ~30sec cd remaining on flag
warm marlin
I can get 2 dances between the 2 and 3 flag without holding flag fairly often
shadow lance
the only change I’ve noticed with cdr is you can be slightly more aggressive wit...
Result I'm out os SoD when dance and Sectech re up
warm marlin
but that’s with the opener cheese stuff
void ocean
i usually get to send naked sec tech+sod after the 2nd flag
tepid trellis
I can get 2 dances between the 2 and 3 flag without holding flag fairly often
just gotta get some good tierset rng
tepid trellis
and you can be very aggresive with it
warm marlin
just gotta get some good tierset rng
I THINK it’s consistent with the sectec prepull cheese
Or at least it feels that way
warm marlin
!cheese
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
warm marlin
The 2nd one
valid yoke
It’s not easy being cheesy
keen patrol
is Sub better then assa atm for m+?
tepid trellis
no
keen patrol
assa better ?
limpid sage
anyone else having this sblades bug?
shadow lance
swift hollow
That's why we delay
this is from the wowhead guide right?
shadow lance
this is from the wowhead guide right?
Correct
vagrant thorn
guys I apologize for the annoying question, I haven't played sub in m+ since S2, does it still suffer from flacid dps on pulls where you don't have sectec? I know the overall m+ dps is good, but are there pulls where you feel embarrassed 😛
shadow lance
In the opener explanation
limpid sage
guys I apologize for the annoying question, I haven't played sub in m+ since S2,...
flacid is an overstatement
but it's actually a bit better with the new 4-set because of all the cdr
vagrant thorn
but it's actually a bit better with the new 4-set because of all the cdr
I see thx 🙂
tepid trellis
i can do like 10-15mil dps on 8 mobs with just dances
swift hollow
Why it would not be?
I found some ohter written guides to not be the best tbh
tepid trellis
with a bit of good tier procs
shadow lance
On wowhead?
swift hollow
It's be written by Fuu
new to rogue, so unsure who they are
swift hollow
On wowhead?
Icy / maxroll
swift hollow
Ok i'll read the wowhead
shadow lance
Read the guide, and don't hesitate to come here for further questions
swift hollow
Read the guide, and don't hesitate to come here for further questions
i Will!
shadow lance
It will be a pleasure to answer
vale pine
new to rogue, so unsure who they are
👋 hey, i theorycraft for subtlety since legion, nice that you want to play subtlety
in general, all guides are good
swift hollow
👋 hey, i theorycraft for subtlety since legion, nice that you want to play subt...
oh shit the one and only is here
vale pine
!guide
vale pine
so you can take any of them and will get good information
outside of that, just ask in here, we have many individuals who can answer your questions
shadow lance
new to rogue, so unsure who they are
Generally, everything from Fuu, Stealthi and Eleem is goated
glacial kraken
vale pine
the worse thing is to get stuck on a detail, so just ask any time this happens
subtelty is not exactly the easiest spec to understand ^^
swift hollow
been trying it out with hekili (just to get a feel) and my burst is like 6 mil compared to my assa opener that is 12 mil on dummies
vale pine
hekili isn't that bad
tepid trellis
dummies can be a bit bait
vale pine
^
tepid trellis
cuz they go into execute
vale pine
you might have used the execute dummie
shadow lance
Yeah, but It needs some config as I remember
tepid trellis
and assa does 30% more dmg during that time
swift hollow
Yeah, but It needs some config as I remember
If you got some config to share i'll galdy take it
vale pine
the problem with hekili/etc is
you feel a false security
so if you make mistakes, it might not be obviouse
shadow lance
If you got some config to share i'll galdy take it
You need to show the offgcd buttons
random comet
!wa
wicked joltBOT
shadow lance
I don't remember exactly
random comet
wheres that blade tracker WA
shadow lance
In packs
swift hollow
**__Subtlety WAs's:__**
Class packs:
> ### <:fuu:1184251947352608768> [Fuu's](<h...
Is Fuu pack a complete package?
shadow lance
I stole guy's one
vale pine
yes
my pack is complete
but i don't like many of the more specific/fancy setups others have so i only track what i need
random comet
im sure i saw a standalone link one here just before
shadow lance
In outlaw maybe?
random comet
oh it was in outlaw yeah
novel marlin
!gear
wicked joltBOT
tepid trellis
but i don't like many of the more specific/fancy setups others have so i only tr...
oof
swift hollow
does it make sense to macro and CDs together?
shadow lance
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
shadow lance
does it make sense to macro and CDs together?
^
swift hollow
I got shadow dance with Death rune
swift hollow
Alright i gotta run some errands i will give sub another try to get the rotation down, thanks a lot everyone for being so friendly
dry plank
racoon and forbidden music
tepid trellis
and i havent been able to stream cuz my obs keeps shitting the bed
so ive tried to fully reinstall it today
to see if that helps
shadow lance
Alright i gotta run some errands i will give sub another try to get the rotation...
You're welcome mate, check that guides ,try to understand the vbibe of the spec and come back if you got questions
rocky lava
Would you guys run Lily on odd and Prism on even Flagellations or just use Secret Technique until I get a better shit? with double on use, every second flag can be huge
tepid trellis
nice
vale pine
a quick rundown of the spec manboobs.
The most important part is cooldown management, so always try to have 2 symbols charges and enough shadow dance charges for your 90 second window.
During your 90 sec cooldowns you want to flag-finish and then send 2 dances back to back.
In both dances try to use secret techniques top priority and if its not ready evis as finisher.
As a combo point builder use Shadow strike.
There are more details and optimizations but playing your 90 sec correct already accounts for a big part of subtleties overall damage
rocky lava
i meant So'Leah Secret Technique*
tepid trellis
generally speaking i wouldnt run 2x on-use unless the 2nd trinket is forge
vale pine
and i havent been able to stream cuz my obs keeps shitting the bed
you can audio split in obs, so you only have game music in your vods/recordings
tepid trellis
gonna try again on monday when i raid again
vale pine
👍 hope you can fix the problems
slow bridge
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/...
thanks for that
meager whale
Thought I‘d rather play sub then assa. Had the feeling it is easier. But seeing my ranks and reading things here makes me wonder if I can RL and sub at the same time tbh. 🙈
tepid trellis
if you do your prep as sub in raid
vestal escarp
koop de grakke
tepid trellis
you for sure can
vale pine
once you build muscle memory yes
as a beginner, probably not great
the benefit you have on sub is, the rotation outside of cooldowns is fairly simple
tepid trellis
when i still did key pushing i was shotcalling as sub
vale pine
nice, you plan to push again this season?
tepid trellis
nope
dont really like the dungeons
and i dont really have the time since i also raid in lost ark during the weekend
vale pine
thanks for that
happy if you like the format, it was a last minute idea i had at the start of the season.
vale pine
and i dont really have the time since i also raid in lost ark during the weekend
oh true
i saw LA was popular on twitch
is there a new raid/season?
tepid trellis
new raid opened wednesday for KR
maiden oar
i heard they brought clown back do u get to fight him again
i loved hell clown before i quit
vale pine
sounds exciting
keen dome
Hell Clown is a fun idea
shadow lance
happy if you like the format, it was a last minute idea i had at the start of th...
Best last minutes idea tbh
maiden oar
Hell Clown is a fun idea
cool fight
gaunt bluff
how many finishers/ruptures would u guys max do in flaggelation before committing to shadow blades opener?
gaunt bluff
still not entirely sure how many to rupture in first pull flood for example cus gathering takes quite a while but mobs are also stacked kinda early
vale pine
m+ is very pull dependent
shadow lance
I would do 1 cuz I hate having cd's delayed / Desync
vale pine
^ this is also good if the pull takes longer
but its route and pull dependent and you need to experiment what works best with your group
gaunt bluff
I see
steep raven
!4p
slow bridge
happy if you like the format, it was a last minute idea i had at the start of th...
its pretty good for new sub players so we know what to shoot for
wicked joltBOT
Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.
vale pine
its pretty good for new sub players so we know what to shoot for
agree, its nice to have one picture to look at to see what gear is relevant quickly
i am sure i can improve on the visuals in the future, but its good enough for now^^
dusk stone
how many finishers/ruptures would u guys max do in flaggelation before committin...
the amount it takes to fully gather the pull and have everything in range is the correct answer there isn't a number
ideally you slam flag the moment the last mob comes in
gaunt bluff
I meant if u send it early for example how many can u afford so u would still get full value in ur cds?
dusk stone
there is extra math with lower keys and low hp percentages where its worth less but you learn that with time
gaunt bluff
yeah but i assume before even sending flag
meager whale
Is 2pc/2pc worth? Should I just sim? 😂
gaunt bluff
i use a lot before too
astral halo
Hey! It might be a stupid question but what in the name of blizzard does the talent so tricky do?
leaden sail
There are two others specs you can play while still being a rogue.
yea and this is why I don't play sub
dusk stone
so tricks of the trade you place on a tank and hit a mob in that order specifically, he must have established threat first
lilac stag
Thanks for sharing!
dusk stone
after that point all threat you generate goes to the tank
vale pine
Is 2pc/2pc worth? Should I just sim? 😂
!sheet has 2p2p in the comparison, but item level makes 2p2p rarely worth.
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
dusk stone
so tricky makes it last an hour
astral halo
but it doesnt last an hour if i look at my buffs or the tanks
vale pine
so 2p2p not that important
dusk stone
!sheet has 2p2p in the comparison, but item level makes 2p2p rarely worth.
the sheet is gone but i was looking for how much dps increase s2 4p was
vale pine
but 2p2p > only new 2p
dusk stone
is like 11.5 right?
meager whale
Hat only HC pieces S2 in most slots. Guess I’ll just sim
vale pine
basically
dusk stone
ty
vale pine
this comparison
thorn knot
dont flame me please, but can someone please explain Shadowcraft talent?
dusk stone
yeah i remember saying you equalized for ilvl
vale pine
you see how much each bonus is worth (4p includes 2p ofc)
compact violet
how much u loose for binding shadow dance and sod ? If i understand correctly the only moment u send SOD alone is for the second dance of burst ?
vale pine
but all tier pieces are set to the same item level
so you get more damage from the item level gain too
because you won't only use normal item level tier pieces
dusk stone
i sandbagged in priory 12 so hard tonight i coulda had 9 overall
vale pine
haha
i fucked up my cooldowns in priory last run we did
could have beeten the other dps by a lot more
meager whale
dont flame me please, but can someone please explain Shadowcraft talent?
I rarely see flames in class/spec DC. Don’t worry 🙂
dusk stone
but sub legit carried me, 7.02 overall was not bad
tepid trellis
dont flame me please, but can someone please explain Shadowcraft talent?
you proc ShT 50% faster and gain 2 stacks instead of 1 during symbols, and IF you reach 7 stacks and press a finisher it will fully refund your combo points
vale pine
but thats part of the learning experience
vale pine
dont flame me please, but can someone please explain Shadowcraft talent?
^ stealthi has the short version, ill give you the long version.
Basically, Shadow techniques is a stacking buff you get, you get it based on auto attack counts.
So you get one stack every 3rd auto attack with a chance of 50% and if the 3rd attack does not trigger guratneed on the 4th.
the stacks will be turned into combo points with your next combo point trigger
it is why you often get more than 1 combo point when e.g. using backstab
the buff can stack up to 2x your maximum combo points
so 14 max
it can stack when you have effects active that max out your combo points like shadowblades or premeditation
or during aoe when storm generates max combo points every time
hope thats somewhat easy to understand
compact violet
with 5 targets trickster do u press shuriken storm / BP on dance for the DS stack ?
i'm looking for araz and it's like every rogue doin different
meager whale
Remember when Sub got rdm CP procs on autos
lusty narwhal
!guide
dusk stone
generally we use a storm right after sectec with the opener to spread find weakness, but thats only guarunteed with the rotten talent we get a dm stack from that
thorn knot
Basically, Shadow techniques is a stacking buff you get, you get it based on aut...
thank you very much for breaking it down for me.
vale pine
So now, there is Shadowcraft.
When you activate Symbols of Death, it changes how Shadow Tequniques works in multiple ways.
-
It speeds up the "auto attack" counter.
So instead of every 3rd auto attack 50%, 4th 100%
It triggers 2nd auto attack 50%, 3rd 100% -
It generates double the stacks.
So fairly simple, if it procs you get 2 stacks
and finally:
3. It gets a new superpower to refund combo points on finishing moves.
This works like the following.
If you have enough stacks of sht to fill up your combo point bar, it will refill it after the use of a finisher.
One examples to help understand it.
You have 9 stacks of sht, you use evis -> you get 7 cp back and can finish a second time.
The refill has a very minimal delay, but it should not be noticable.
compact violet
ye ok like u sd + sod ==> bs ==> sectec ==> storm with t100% crit with roten so fw applies
dusk stone
i think liquid loses the race this morning
echo has been killing it with pull count efficiency and they are in a good spot with where they are
tepid trellis
Remember when Sub got rdm CP procs on autos
it was never actually "random"
dusk stone
also, why do i feel giga squishy in 12's right now?
i swear 12's last season did not hurt this much
short radish
because you had 50 more ilvl
tepid trellis
cuz you are low ilvl
tepid trellis
yeh and last you did +12s you were like 20 ilvls higher comparatively
dusk stone
yeah i get it, but is the stamina just gonna do that much?
hollow spear
Stuff dies faster means you also take less damage
tepid trellis
yeah i get it, but is the stamina just gonna do that much?
there is also armor value
hollow spear
Idk, I don't feel squishy as sub rogue
short radish
yeah i get it, but is the stamina just gonna do that much?
yes
also yeah just press feint lol
and also we have passive 25% DR
hollow spear
There's much worse classes
short radish
from existing
hollow spear
If you die while feinting it must be casts going off
dusk stone
there is also armor value
armor value?
dusk stone
so that number goes up and the damage taken goes down yeah
also took a mauling to the face on no energy
short radish
phys dam taken go down yeah
vale pine
i turned in the other day to the echo stream
and the casters asked perfecto
"how come, you are so good at dodging things, you ended up the one with the least damage from raid mechanics"
and he answered with "well if i don't i simply die"
dusk stone
true
vale pine
(transcribed, don't know the exact words they used anymore)
so ye, rogue is squishy
we have strong cooldowns like cloak, evasion (if it works) and feint
dusk stone
its also hard to focus when healer isnt great and that causes damage taken to go up
like if they are legit awful its almost easier
vale pine
also we have extra super powers
fading kayak
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
vale pine
e.g. arakara last boss
dusk stone
wdym with arakara
short radish
i dont trust my ping for that 
vale pine
not because i wanted
but because our ranged dps did eat the puddles like candy
well you can cheese it
you can use shaow step, sprint, vanish-strike
and if nothing else worked, cloak
dusk stone
does evasion also work?
vale pine
its magic damage, so no
dusk stone
step annoys me sometimes but its a legit nice thing
last boss dawnbreaker you can jump off the edge of the stairs and port back while dropping web
vale pine
also it depends on key level, might be able to survive it on lower ones
dusk stone
11
vale pine
yep
you can also cloak to avoid the stun effect when you get the wave
rogue has some nice cheeses
dusk stone
you can interrupt the root adds, i learned that today
i figured it was a stun
cloak works on stun huh
vale pine
its only a 1 sec stun or so, but it prevents it
dusk stone
with our 20 ilvls less gear a 12 is like a 14 or something atm?
vale pine
we are just at the start of a patch
so you might be somewhere around 700
with ~720 max item level
means there is a lot of room to get more hp, higher dodge chance (from agi), more vers, etc
shadow lance
Fuu, do you know how many sht stack i can proc during coup?
vale pine
you can get a 7 cp refund, just like with other finishers
dusk stone
there is dodge chance from agi
vale pine
sht does not go over the cp max
dusk stone
so spymasters is just a dcd too lol
shadow lance
No I mean
vale pine
it just reflls your combo points after using a finisher
shadow lance
My qestion was badly done I think
shadow lance
I'm at 6 stacks, I press coup and get a 7th stack during coup, it will refill
vale pine
or well have high stacks
shadow lance
Or I miss something how coup's working?
silk vapor
this may be a bit of a stupid question: i only played assa rogue but rly wanna go sub. is sub harder to play than assa ?
dusk stone
yes, harder to learn and easier to master
vale pine
it is harder to learn
hazy breach
On singletarget for sure, but its not as hard as people say
vale pine
but i would not be too concerned
silk vapor
okay tyvm
dusk stone
whats actually hard about sub is optimizing it
vale pine
yes, harder to learn and easier to master
think every specs min/max is more difficult
tribal blade
can only play sub if you have a degree in nuclear fission
vale pine
XD
dusk stone
can only play sub if you have a degree in nuclear fission
nuclear rocket surgery
tribal blade
we're brain surgeons
vale pine
i have a pgd in procastination, am i qualified?
tribal blade
YES
silk vapor
i want to swap cuz i think it will fit better in our m+ comp and somehow i dont enjoy assa anymore as much as i used to xD
tribal blade
playing DS is horrible
it's one of the worst experiences you can have in modern wow
dusk stone
just focus on doing the opener right, do two or 3 dances between flag cooldowns and then do flag cooldowns again
get that right and add more to it
silk vapor
just focus on doing the opener right, do two or 3 dances between flag cooldowns...
if flag and blades are coming up in like 30 sec, i just hold dance,symbols and sectec right?
vale pine
Or I miss something how coup's working?
It checks when you use the finisher iirc, so the proc needs to be very close to the finisher to still register.
dusk stone
not a hard rule
tribal blade
if flag and blades are coming up in like 30 sec, i just hold dance,symbols and s...
when you're first learning that's a good rule to live by
dusk stone
it raid it was like 40 seconds last patch, this patch its less
tribal blade
then see where you can add in more
dusk stone
in keys its 20
vale pine
if flag and blades are coming up in like 30 sec, i just hold dance,symbols and s...
you essentially want to have 2x symbols 2x dance every flag/blades
dusk stone
unless you are 18 prism and then you need 3 dances, which means having two full ones
vale pine
thats the very top level cooldown usage summary
silk vapor
yea okay i can do that i guess
fathom adder
is the 2 dances inside of cds, then 2 out of, 2 in, 1 out repeat still a "guideline" or do you have much more SD cdr due to t-set?
dusk stone
sub feels very good right now and you'll get it if you put the work in for sure
dusk stone
i started last patch and i am somewhat competent with it
silk vapor
im a tryhard and a fast learner 😄
vale pine
the "cooldown" uses between the big cooldowns is just dependent on how many dance/symbols stacks you have but usually 1-2 times between cooldowns
heady spoke
How does sub compare to assassination in keys? I haven’t touched sub yet. What’s the reason you would play one vs the other? And why are some bosses on mythic better for sub instead of assassination?
dusk stone
so many new sub rogues today
vale pine
Subtlety is good, assassiantion does better if there is a lot of longer living adds
silk vapor
ty guys rly helped me a lot
tribal blade
yeah this is what happens when sub becomes meta lol
vale pine
yeah this is what happens when sub becomes meta lol
is it meta yet?
dusk stone
its working on it
tribal blade
is it meta yet?
in keys yeah
tribal blade
for phys comp
vale pine
why did people switch from assa
tribal blade
phys comp is a lot more popular this season than last
dusk stone
the thing is with new coup, our out of cd dances are so strong that you see 14mil on pulls regularly
one reddit user described it as sub never having cooldowns lol
tribal blade
why did people switch from assa
i think sin's bleed build was just mega OP at the very start when nobody had gear and keys were 10s
but naturally has key levels went higher bleed becomes less good
vale pine
one reddit user described it as sub never having cooldowns lol
thats in part true, especially if you manage things poorly
the cdr on dance could be a bit higher
dusk stone
he meant it in a positive sense
vale pine
true
hazy breach
Idk thats just wrong either way, you'd do way more than 14m on pulls with cds
tribal blade
we have a bunch of dungeons where the timer becomes tight on bosses
silk vapor
why did people switch from assa
bleed build and when u play with arcane mage in like 13/14s ur target dies before DM had its full duration xD
warm marlin
I have too much dance cdr in keys
dusk stone
How does sub compare to assassination in keys? I haven’t touched sub yet. What’s...
i will quote eleem and say sub does very very very good damage rn. Sub is a very strong burst class where we can move damage around and throw more of it into amps if we want without much if any dps loss. Netherprism accelerates that this tier. Stealthi was saying he was getting some pulls with 60mil on them with an 18 stack from prism
warm marlin
Sending dance sectec with no symbols feels horrible
vale pine
double on use works just very good for us
dusk stone
sin is better prior damage but our isn't bad and our aoe is pretty good rn, we just drop off inbetween cooldowns and sin takes over then
vale pine
espeically in burst aoe pulls
tribal blade
Sending dance sectec with no symbols feels horrible
yeah it's rough
vale pine
assassiantion is funnel and sustained aoe
fathom adder
you dance without symbols?
tribal blade
thing is sub can do very good prio dmg too if you use evis over BP
vale pine
you dance without symbols?
usually no
dusk stone
its just not funnel is all
warm marlin
In aoe yes sometimes you get so much cdr you have too many dances for the amount of symbols you have
tribal blade
nah not funnel, but great prio
dusk stone
i want to give deathstalker a try tbh with its funnel
fathom adder
when would you? just double checked the guide and cannot find something about it
dusk stone
18 stack prism with funnel on big momma sounds funny
vale pine
thing is sub can do very good prio dmg too if you use evis over BP
prio stays good for sure, but we don't rly funnel anymore
funnel of sub is very weak compared to other specs who can actually benefit more from funnel
kinda sad, because it was our niche
dusk stone
if its a lot of adds tho and black powder does it not become good?
tribal blade
if its a lot of adds tho and black powder does it not become good?
depends on the mobs
like the sentinels after 1st boss in eco dome i was BPing those pulls
until i realized it was just pad
tepid trellis
pad away
tribal blade
the next sentinel i full evised down and it died in my cds REALLY fast
opal basalt
but pad looks good on the meters 
tepid trellis
u dont brink sub for prio dmg
tribal blade
true
vale pine
^
tribal blade
i haven't played with any prio specs though in phys comp
hardy agate
!gear
vale pine
if you want prio would play sin 
wicked joltBOT
dusk stone
its just that we have a decent chunk of that too
hazy breach
Sub still does really high prio
tribal blade
in cds you can delete a target
lusty narwhal
!coldblood
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
vale pine
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
hazy breach
And our cooldowns are really strong, so we can often end up doing more/similar damage to the prio target than assa does
Just because we burst hard
warm marlin
In the little keys I’ve done flag blades can let you beat arcane assa on a funnel mob
Your cds are just insane
tribal blade
yeah double coup also helps
tribal blade
it's close, but when you add all the modifiers
shadow lance
It checks when you use the finisher iirc, so the proc needs to be very close to ...
Yes, tbh I was just wondering at how many stack I should wait a bit before sending next gcd to avoid having a refill and press my storm
tribal blade
evis ends up doing quite a bit more i think
golden totem
And our cooldowns are really strong, so we can often end up doing more/similar d...
Assuming pressing evis or BP?
vale pine
hazy breach
Assuming pressing evis or BP?
Either or, doesnt matter that much
But obviously slightly higher with evis
vale pine
someone made a weakaura for the bug
hazy breach
A lot of the prio damage is from sectech, unseen blades and coup
tribal blade
https://wago.io/XfVX1CeQC
oh thank god ty ty
dusk stone
i could be talking out of my ass here, but i dont think our sustain is even that bad rn with coup
hazy breach
The choice of BP vs Evis doesnt impact it that much
tribal blade
i'm never talenting nado unless it's very ahead
opal basalt
did an arakara 12 yday and in the last corridor with the overseer and the smallies i peaked 25m on details, man that felt good haha
dusk stone
i cheated on TR with another talent and i regretted it
warm marlin
i think sin's bleed build was just mega OP at the very start when nobody had gea...
Does assa not scale better with key level btw?
vale pine
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use a weakaura to get a reminader: >Open on Wago.io <
dusk stone
the math might be diff this patch
vale pine
alright, added it to the commad
merry agate
Dont even need nado for cdr most of the time 🤔
Tossed that 
dusk stone
but how much does 18 stack prism do to a mob, would you not just obliterate it?
maybe its just the call in higher keys to let your sustain classes take care of 1 pull and you do the next
tribal blade
Does assa not scale better with key level btw?
honestly not sure,. but last season bleed started falling behind when key levels got higher and was "troll" to play
tribal blade
i'm on 15-16s atm and sub feels very strong
vale pine
dusk stone
i'm on 15-16s atm and sub feels very strong
have you also ran sin to compare?
tribal blade
it's disastrous maintaining ruptures
tribal blade
have you also ran sin to compare?
yeah i started this season playing sin
sin is still strong for sure
but seems like people really do not like sin's bad ST
dusk stone
how do you feel about the compared sustain though
dusk stone
the problem with us is always tank damage after awhile
tribal blade
you have a few keys where sin is just not good compared to sub like streets and DB
tribal blade
i spread rupture on sub too
heehee
dusk stone
what is zeross running
tribal blade
it's interesting because as fatebound you have to use vanish during DM+KB
dusk stone
im not sure how much he actually plays sub but his numbers are always really high for rogue
tribal blade
so you can't use it to IC
tribal blade
im not sure how much he actually plays sub but his numbers are always really hig...
yeah he's probably killing it as sin
warm marlin
im not sure how much he actually plays sub but his numbers are always really hig...
his last 2 streets are on sub 
clever delta
I trust only r1 players
warm marlin
dungeon is so cursed for assa
dusk stone
i actually get to run in a double rogue m+ comp and our sin wants to play sub now apparently
tribal blade
last one i timed with like 4 mins left
dusk stone
i will say double rogue is a nice vibe
tribal blade
sub is crazy good in streets
plus speed shroud for RP
interesting build
he's running
dusk stone
speed shroud is really underated as an ability, as well as the 50% cd for it
people always talk about X thing taking time off the timer and shroud never gets mentioned
tribal blade
oh this is goddamn raid biuld am i high
jesus christ
i need to sleep earlier tonight
dusk stone
hard to sleep when vibes are good
keen dome
i need to sleep earlier tonight
🫂 Sleep important
tribal blade
i honestly looked at that and was like "wow new M+ build"
tribal blade
🫂 Sleep important
haha true!!
dusk stone
well it is new for sin, in that you will do relevant boss damage
tribal blade
i keep trying to sleep earlier, but then i end up chatting in here too late lol
dusk stone
whomever wrote that iv article today lit a fire under me. Sub is top in 95% percentile of keys completed even if its close
'the old king has returned to his throne' goes so hard
tribal blade
the interesting thing is i'm not far behind these big streamers
keen dome
I think Nexus King is my least favourite fight to pug in a while. Extremely fun fight on heroic but geeeeeeeez people.
dusk stone
the only sub streamer i really care about is casual
he will pull accurate sub numbers compared to what it can do as far as i have seen
dusk stone
what was parse?
tribal blade
no idea, just looking at rio
vale pine
plus speed shroud for RP
speed shroud is the best talent we have
tribal blade
speed shroud is the best talent we have
it's pretty cool 😉
tribal blade
i think sin isn't bad right now
vale pine
^
tribal blade
i think all 3 rogue specs are super strong
vale pine
sin is incredibly good still
tribal blade
it's just sub has the edge atm
tribal blade
i really think a big part of it is sub's ST ability
tribal blade
you have a lot of bosses where you kinda want to kill them asap
warm marlin
it's just sub has the edge atm
I’m not entirely convinced
vale pine
agree
keen dome
I think you play both depending on key
tribal blade
I’m not entirely convinced
i could be wrong for sure
warm marlin
I do more damage on sub but I’m very much better at it
dusk stone
we just need to be patient and wait
and be grateful its this close
after the cancer of last patch
vale pine
I think you play both depending on key
and sprinkle a bit of outlaw on top sometimes
^^
dusk stone
the legit only good thing about last patch was the anime training arc it put me through to be not awful on numbers
i couldnt even raid, i got the renown bug
tribal blade
was just looking at archon.gg today and saw this
the last time i looked sub was below sin and outlaw
vale pine
oh interessting
tribal blade
it's suddenly shot up
dusk stone
for a straight month, i had to deal with raid sub dps and then -15% less
void ocean
so it seems CB bugs only when we switch from assa build that has CB to sub build that has cb, when switching from assa builds (e.g. bleed) that doesnt have CB its fine... so shifting from fatebound st to bleed to sub st might be faster than relogging
keen dome
Yeah, Prism is insane. Doing 10m+ burst ST on some bosses is insane
Making them SO much quicker and have less mechanics.
vale pine
so it seems CB bugs only when we switch from assa build that has CB to sub build...
true
you can switch specs, switch talents, switch back
works apperently too
dusk stone
with sub being this good i am really gonna try and push for title this season
tribal blade
it's cool to see most of the big phys comp specs are highly ranked atm
warm marlin
Brew is kinda silly rn
dim patrol
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
tribal blade
and whenever i'm queueing for keys or listing my own, it's really easy to build phys comps compared to last season
keen dome
Yeah
tribal blade
last season the phys comp community was very small
i can actually completely ignore every caster signing up for my keys now haha
dusk stone
speaking of declining, apparently a high ranking ret paladin made an addon to auto decline rets
i think it was in protest of the discord thing
keen dome
lmao
vale pine
i am happy to see sub played
keen dome
Same
tribal blade
ditto!
tribal blade
i just hope it's not early season stuff
vale pine
so things just got better this season
tribal blade
and then we fall off
dusk stone
aint no raiders playing sub
vale pine
i initially did not think we would
keen dome
I AM
vale pine
world first does
keen dome
vale pine
on last 2
void ocean
lmao
tribal blade
sin is really good in raid
vale pine
^
keen dome
Clearly I'm world first (aotc via pugging except someone already ddi that in this very discord)
tribal blade
as sin you can choose between a whole bunch of different builds with different cd timings
dusk stone
i was half joking, its just that most raiders dont usually play sub over sin at least not recently
void ocean
id rather jump off the cliff than playing ds assa on 4th boss
dusk stone
yeah its much easier than ds right
warm marlin
i was half joking, its just that most raiders dont usually play sub over sin at ...
Much like the popularity of ret, many many people flock to assa just because it is much easier (in raid)
vale pine
i wonder
dusk stone
i may play it for fractillus
vale pine
if FB is good in mü
void ocean
ye, single targets with fb sin are fckin snoozefest
vale pine
m+
tribal blade
yeah its much easier than ds right
it is yeah
vale pine
how bad is fb in m+?
void ocean
but effective snoozefest
vale pine
is it unplayble bad?
dusk stone
it auto nerfs itself with any add
vale pine
ye
tribal blade
i made a FB build using zeroess' cleave talents because that's the only thing you can do
vale pine
inverse target scaling
warm marlin
ye, single targets with fb sin are fckin snoozefest
I’m ngl I kind of like it
tribal blade
i was able to do ~10mil sustained dps on target dummies
warm marlin
FB sin is just sub man
vale pine
lol
vale pine
thats true
warm marlin
Afk
rough rivet
are there any streamer/youtuber that play sub?
tribal blade
the funny thing is you're not locked to 1 target because of DS mark
but you end up being locked to 1 target most of the time because of KB anyways
because FB is in KB so much
dusk stone
are there any streamer/youtuber that play sub?
casualaddict
rough rivet
casualaddict
oh, thought he was assa only - thanks!
dusk stone
cmlo too, he is not bad at the spec either
tribal blade
casual will play whichever rogue spec is the best
vale pine
are there any streamer/youtuber that play sub?
kush, perfecto (atm)
Think most of the m+ streamers will play it if its good so:
casualaddict probably a good choice, speed maybe, but best is to just look
Outisde of this, i think some people in here stream occacionally like stealthi might stream some of his progress if he can fix his obs
warm marlin
Like minus the fact that the peaks are bigger in execute, this damage profile is almost sub
fathom adder
do you use prism in m+ ? did not play it yet
tacit coral
what is the way to use netherprism, can we pre stack or something like that?
dusk stone
yes and it is cracked
you just dont get stacks at dungeon start is all
i tried to use the gather window to build stacks but its not worth
just wait for 9 or 18 and do big dam
tacit coral
does it reset on raid bosses too
dusk stone
that is a great question
rough rivet
kush, perfecto (atm)
Think most of the m+ streamers will play it if its good so:...
thanks. am okish on sub but more input cant hurt. especially for m+ 😄
tribal blade
probably
dusk stone
maybe go far out of the room with a dummy or something
tribal blade
there would be no efficient way in raid to farm stacks before bosses
dusk stone
or this games equivalent to a portable dummy
lilac stag
kush, perfecto (atm)
Think most of the m+ streamers will play it if its good so:...
what about our best bought rogue Lashga?
tacit coral
and we send it with shadowblades regardless of its stacks?
dusk stone
wdym bought rogue?
lilac stag
dude bought his title and tired to play it off as nothing in here
dusk stone
he paid for people to do high keys with him?
lilac stag
was I not clear?
dusk stone
just checking man
i only saw a couple of his parses and they were really good though
if it was a carry thats one thing, if youre paying just to play with people and carry them thats different
warm marlin
if it was a carry thats one thing, if youre paying just to play with people and ...
He did not carry them in any way
swift tinsel
And then bragged about being rank 1
warm marlin
Was below aug in half the keys
dusk stone
He did not carry them in any way
odd
swift tinsel
Which rubbed a lot of people the wrong way
dusk stone
i saw a cinderbrew he did and it was jacked, he halved the gap between us and outlaw
swift tinsel
Bc that’s scumbag behavior
lilac stag
i think i just pissed on zorn's rogue crush
warm marlin
And then bragged about being rank 1
And then called the people carrying him bad
lilac stag
he's also trans/homophobic. there's a reason he's not in here
swift tinsel
“I’m just playing with friends”
And then has a crash out on stream and unfriended everyone
dusk stone
yeah thats pretty bad
still quartz
!up
wicked joltBOT
tepid trellis
surely now i wont get caught off guard by the delayed coup refund when ive made a fckign bar to show me when i can press a button again
warm marlin
lilac stag
yours or is that exiles?
tepid trellis
mine
lilac stag
i was looking to see if anyone released one
tepid trellis
i just made it like 5min ago
lilac stag
nice
tepid trellis
i heard exile was looking for something to help him, so i sat down and figured something out
lilac stag
lmk if you're willing to share
plucky parrot
yeah I'd love to incorporate that into mine if you're open to share
warm marlin
Idk you can do all the preventative measures but sometimes you just proc from 5-7 with 0.1s left on the gcd
plucky parrot
the delayed coup procs are murder
warm marlin
It is what it is
hazy breach
Idk you can do all the preventative measures but sometimes you just proc from 5-...
The proc from 3 to 7 during the coup
Those are the most devious
lilac stag
Idk you can do all the preventative measures but sometimes you just proc from 5-...
cant escape em all, but would like to minimize them
warm marlin
Yeah the devious 3-7 in the last 0.3s is crazy
tepid trellis
Idk you can do all the preventative measures but sometimes you just proc from 5-...
makes it easier if you only have to react to the bar going full
tepid trellis
you still have 0.2 sec until you can fire the gcd after the bar is gone
hazy breach
And then boom double proc
slate marlin
tepid trellis
Im usually on the ball if im at 5
when you are at 3 and you get a skyfury proc and insta go to 7
is great
vale pine
surely now i wont get caught off guard by the delayed coup refund when ive made ...
i use quartz, it has a gcd time build in ^^
non elvui 
swift tinsel
I have my gcd bar tied to dance but I feel like sod is a better trigger
warm marlin
I wonder if it’s possible to make a wa bar with ticks for the exact time each coup hit occurs
tepid trellis
only need to know the last one
swift tinsel
If it’s consistent you can
dry plank
!up
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
it’s not so bad to make
tepid trellis
now there is a tick
dusk stone
i didnt install it yet but that is the #1 i am doing tomorrow for sure
tepid trellis
roughly where the last coup hit is
keen dome
Reply "My aura" imo
dusk stone
roughly where the last coup hit is
you can consistently get 60mils with 18 stack prism?
swift hollow
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
short radish
clever delta
My goat
warm marlin
Pokimane sub
short radish
not my sub
tepid trellis
you can consistently get 60mils with 18 stack prism?
depends on pull size
slender totem
!opener
dusk stone
there anything special you do aside from 3 dances and prism?
short radish
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
slender totem
is there any easy openers?
short radish
opener in there
slender totem
for aoe=
short radish
!guide
slender totem
i see
short radish
check wowhead
dusk stone
the guide covers that and a lot more
opal basalt
guys
short radish
yes my child
opal basalt
has tricks always fucked with tanks getting up before i'm dead?
slender totem
is spreading rupture not worth in opener ?
short radish
is spreading rupture not worth in opener ?
i spread 1 or 2
clever delta
was just looking at archon.gg today and saw this
Yo, I was helping too
weak shale
Hey, I'm a new player to WoW and am switching away from fury because it's hurting my hands lol.
How fast paced is subtlety?
tribal blade
Yo, I was helping too
nice 😉
dusk stone
holy
tepid trellis
fast in cds, slow outside of cds @weak shale
dusk stone
so many new players
slender totem
i spread 1 or 2
okey, would u rec playing sub now over assa for m+
tribal blade
yeah i've climbed quite a bit with sub too
short radish
has tricks always fucked with tanks getting up before i'm dead?
can be a bit whack sometimes
fierce minnow
they see sub in details
short radish
if the tank has 0 threat
cursive vapor
all comin to us now cause were bis
short radish
okey, would u rec playing sub now over assa for m+
yes but you are in a sub channel
slender totem
yes but you are in a sub channel
lol
dusk stone
all keys are sub keys
short radish
dusk stone
its only until u find a sin rogue thats better than you
wet idol
okey, would u rec playing sub now over assa for m+
try for urself and see what you enjoy best
lilac stag
okey, would u rec playing sub now over assa for m+
outlaw
dusk stone
so dont be that guy and get beat
slender totem
is there a macro for shadowdance to use the backstab after pressing it?
tribal blade
it would be pretty deep depression if sin just ends up being the meta rogue spec again
keen dome
Make Sub the meta spec
scarlet stump
!wa
wicked joltBOT
keen dome
Manifest it by not backing away
short radish
yeah but they're going to be
lilac stag
it would be pretty deep depression if sin just ends up being the meta rogue spec...
simplicity to focus on mechanics kinda defaults it to meta
cursive vapor
is there a macro for shadowdance to use the backstab after pressing it?
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
dusk stone
hopefully this place keeps getting more subs so we can consistently get good tuning
lilac stag
just pump
dusk stone
yo you got a pure mage in that group you got intellect buff what you on about
short radish
not a single relevant party buff that i care about*
lilac stag
rogues dont need to be smart
clever delta
But he make you much smarter
short radish
zug zug
clever delta
Sus
opal basalt
can be a bit whack sometimes
like following scenario. i give tank tricks, tanks gets oneshot in pull and immediately gets up, mobs run to dungeon entrance immediately
clever delta
Bpbpbp
opal basalt
like that is incredibly annoying rn
dusk stone
we only survive bad patches because big brain around here tbh
short radish
like following scenario. i give tank tricks, tanks gets oneshot in pull and imme...
oh yeah because you have perma tricks
opal basalt
very nice lol, so i'll have to tell my tanks to not get up immediately haha
or i could also just take the other hero talent but thats not as comfy
dusk stone
wdym not get up immediately
short radish
just tell your tank to not die
dusk stone
you mean mount?
wet idol
never had issues like that
is that better that all others members get one shot bcz they have aggro
dusk stone
i think he means that he has to tell the tank not to mount so he can tricks
upbeat garden
Watched a video from some youtuber and he said we use black powder when we have 3 or more targets with weakness ,is that true ?
opal basalt
i think he means that he has to tell the tank not to mount so he can tricks
nono
i mean the tank dies and all mobs run to the tank
because he has perma tricks on him
wet idol
I don´t see how that's an issue
dusk stone
why is the tank dying
lilac stag
you want that to happen if tank is dead
wet idol
If thank is dead and rez, you want him to have aggro again
opal basalt
i want mobs to aggro sidepacks we didnt pull after a semi-wipe?
tribal blade
it can become a big issue if the mobs run halfway across the world to get to the tank
but at the end of the day tank shouldn't be dying
opal basalt
yeah ofc tank shouldnt be dying
tribal blade
if the mobs don't run to tank it would be an insta wipe right
usually the easier solution is you bring a real bres
so they can insta bres if the tank dies
upbeat garden
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
wet idol
Watched a video from some youtuber and he said we use black powder when we have ...
yes
!guide
opal basalt
usually the easier solution is you bring a real bres
yeah that sounds like the best call
problem here was, the tank was the bres class
but in the end it really is "tank shouldnt die"
dusk stone
just bring cables
tribal blade
problem here was, the tank was the bres class
hahaaa classic
weak shale
do rogues have an easy or hard time in delves?
tribal blade
just bring cables
it's usually kinda impossible to cables bres a tank in time
dusk stone
with the new influx of players we should try and hit the guide command more
tribal blade
unless the aggro goes on someone who can kite/immune the mobs
dusk stone
answering a single question about sub is fine until it has to be done like 3 times in 60 seconds, and not as good as directing people to the info dump
swift tinsel
do rogues have an easy or hard time in delves?
They’re not the easiest but once you’re decently geared you can rip through them pretty quickly as assassination with bleed build then switch to sub to kill end boss
Just mentally prepare for Brann to piss you off a lot
Bc he tries his best but his best is not very good
weak shale
hahahha
swift tinsel
He’s a fuckin menace
tribal blade
i thoroughly enjoy hitting dance, brann takes aggro and kites the delve boss out of the room resetting him
i hate brann so much
swift tinsel
Yep that happens so much that I’m numb to it now haha
swift tinsel
So I try stealthing to the opposite side of the room before pulling
Helps a little but he’s still a fuckass
Ye they need to add a taunt to delves
tribal blade
i would say just swap to sin ST build instead
swift tinsel
Ye with fatebound now they’re good
tribal blade
but then you'll get "cannot change that talent while thistle tea is on cooldown"
dusk stone
brann was 100% designed with annoying you in mind
aint no way someone crafted those lines without that intent
dusk stone
just let us tricks the boss
swift tinsel
Boss an-hero’s
opal basalt
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
compact violet
what is the loose for macroin sod and shadow dance
opal basalt
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
compact violet
not my question but thanks ^^
opal basalt
yeah i thought that'd mention something about it
hazy breach
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
swift tinsel
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
opal basalt
thats the one
lilac stag
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
opal basalt
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
hazy breach
Ait lads time to cut it
opal basalt
sry chief
swift tinsel
compact violet
and on the burst windows, were supposed to open the second SD with backstab ?
opal basalt
for danse macabre yes
compact violet
a lot of logs dont do it was wondering
merry agate
Coup stack fuckery? Things are shifting sometimes 
limber relic
Man BP feels bad on like 4-5 targets...is it worth just doing normal rotation for prio dmg sometimes?
swift tinsel
If you really want to
dusk stone
and on the burst windows, were supposed to open the second SD with backstab ?
wdym the 2nd, what are you doing for the first
hazy breach
and on the burst windows, were supposed to open the second SD with backstab ?
Your first builder should be backstab yes
dusk stone
Man BP feels bad on like 4-5 targets...is it worth just doing normal rotation fo...
evis is 770k bp is 550k / nimble only does 60% of evis' damage
thats why bp is fine on 3 or more targets with fw