Ain’t no way
#subtlety
tepid trellis
thats why its 6
and not 8
we are doing loomi and up
cuz our trinket
luck
is dog
tepid trellis
think we have seen 4-5 of them
warm marlin
Prism antenna is the life for me
woeful wren
Is there a spammable symbols macro, not to waste charges?
warm marlin
How troll do you think it is to skip the 130 flag on nexus btw
slate marlin
im yet to see prism or antenna drop
warm marlin
Missing the first 10-15s of damage amp feels turbo bad
chrome fern
i natty won netherprism on normal
warm marlin
I’m wondering if saccing it and just doing pull 2:50 on adds 4:20 dmg amp is good enough value
and then you prism with a random double dance 
where’s my autumn man
spice matrix
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
woeful wren
ye i dnt see it
latent finch
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
spice matrix
ty
woeful wren
tyty
final granite
@tepid trellis do you happen to know which talents are usedon Araz for sub? tried checking WCL but its pretty bricked.
tepid trellis
Missing the first 10-15s of damage amp feels turbo bad
get pala cdr
feral barn
Hi guys, quick question, i see in AoE after a coup proc, we shuriken storm then second coup, why don't we SS ?
warm marlin
get pala cdr
No hpal 
hazy breach
No idea who got autumn on rwf
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> do you happen to know which talents are usedon Araz for sub...
rwf guys just playing single target talents
hazy breach
Seems so good to put it on sub
tepid trellis
they sent it on 2min classes
warm marlin
Single target with weaponmaster
tepid trellis
so they can do platform + dmg amp
warm marlin
Tfd bad there
blissful yacht
Im using macro for Dance with Symbols? Should i seperate those? And why?
warm marlin
I will test 2:50 adds with prism and 4:20 dmg amp next split clear
I think it has potential
tepid trellis
but if you are on point with cd usage
you still get 3x dance on the amp
on mythic atleast
so u dont even actually need the pala cdr
it just makes it more chill
warm marlin
The timers looked similar but I’m getting gapped on dragon dmg when I really shouldn’t be
Pretty sure I got triple dance
turbid apex
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
swift tinsel
yeah
tepid trellis
The timers looked similar but I’m getting gapped on dragon dmg when I really sho...
thats ours
swift tinsel
its the same number of binds as having them separate
turbid apex
is there a world where i want to CB anything else than ST?
swift tinsel
nah
turbid apex
kk tyty
warm marlin
thats ours
We had like 3 over 700 I think
I cant remember anymore
I didn’t have prism yet though
didn’t help
warm marlin
Noob didn’t log himself
swift tinsel
casually stealing 2.7mil dps
bleak night
akaari nearly beat the ww thats rough
tepid trellis
ideally you wanna have 18 prism stacks for the burn
but i saved it for the platform cuz 
jagged rover
we didn't have a full 30 man, but I topped dragon damage this week as sin. I need to do it as sub again this next week and see how my damage is
warm marlin
I have my doubts that I’m seeing a forge before dimmy dies
jagged rover
just a 121m kingsbane on the burn
though sub gaps everyone on the platform. Mages beat me this week, need to put them back in place now that I have sub 4pc
vagrant fulcrum
Here's my personal feedback on rogue in TWW; I hope you guys will begin a discussion about this and blizzard uses our sentiments to inform their choices for rogue in midnight. https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogues-in-tww-engineered-frustration/585745 I go over all specs in varying detail.
fallen crescent
whats a good m+ build? i see some with tea and some with cb. what's usually better/preffered
spare oar
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
loud brook
i have a nish question, if a target is about to die, does the mutiple tick of my coup/sectech hit the target or wasted?
i dont even know if coup has mutiple tick or not, feels like it
dense mountain
yo stealthi are you gonna upload any kill vods this tier so i can steal your cd timing? 
keen carbon
Guys any good wa for subtly?
wicked joltBOT
turbid apex
!rotten
spare oar
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
spare oar
!loot
wicked joltBOT
molten ivy
Flood 11 after taking in all your tips, tyvm ❤️
high eagle
LE package is very useful for sub
What is the top blue dance bar for LE's? Making sure my loaded right/functioning correctly.
turbid apex
using storm during dance to proc find weakness in aoe during dance = cringe? (assuming the rotten buff)
tepid trellis
@warm marlin
stoic pier
What is the top blue dance bar for LE's? Making sure my loaded right/functioning...
First dance talent
sharp lake
Here's my personal feedback on rogue in TWW; I hope you guys will begin a discus...
I like this post a lot! I’m pretty new and pretty mid but you’ve reflected a lot of my thoughts. It seems like there’s this common feature in rogue design where we’re punished for making mistakes instead of being rewarded for playing well.
stoic pier
It tells you if u have first dance up for more uptime on the first shadow dance after entering combat, and it starts recharging after you leave combat, so with this wa blue bar you can optimize wait a little bit before entering in combat again @high eagle
vagrant fulcrum
I like this post a lot! I’m pretty new and pretty mid but you’ve reflected a lot...
thanks for the feedback, comment on blizz forums to generate traffic so they hopefully see it - of the three specs Ive played the least subtlety so this channel's commentary would be by far the most helpful
sharp lake
I really only play subtlety and at a pretty mid level so I’d be happy to comment. This spec is super fun and easily my favorite thing I’ve played in this game but boy is it very unintuitive.
high eagle
It tells you if u have first dance up for more uptime on the first shadow dance ...
Ah, I see. I like that. Thanks!
I was using atrocity's WA package but, LE's is easier to track. For me anyways.
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
tight sparrow
where is the wa for symbols not press accidently
sick hazel
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
tepid trellis
where is the wa for symbols not press accidently
#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs
bleak night
I press it as soon as I res
void needle
Yeah, I usually do. If it's off a wipe then I do it as soon as I get off the floor
umbral socket
Did this spec get buffed this week or just better players and tier sets?
mighty citrus
Yeah, I usually do. If it's off a wipe then I do it as soon as I get off the fl...
you have a wa for it?
void needle
If it's a fresh pull, sectech on trash then shuriken storm the whole rest of the time, hit sod sometime after you secteched.
No weakaura
sharp lake
Did this spec get buffed this week or just better players and tier sets?
We get like +30% damage from 4 piece
umbral socket
30% wtf
void needle
you have a wa for it?
But realistically it's minmaxxy cheese that contributes about 1% on 5 minute fight. Combined from the 2 supercharge, and the disorienting strikes. It does make it far more likely to get a coup in the first blades window
void needle
30% wtf
Yeah, Fuu's got a spreadsheet for the sims. I don't remember the chat command but https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRq3Nn1ZvFwaXf1wQTr1RalpWbJTIhQp5xGwEyDTVWyuBWLP9_2rqqsxJSPQJLJAkIiKHy49pVfqEWu/pubhtml
void needle
It isn't a 30% increase over last season 4 set to be clear
void needle
4p to 4p is only about 13%
dusk stone
it should be like 11.5 to 28.5
gaunt bluff
does being in a very laggy 30 man raid affect how energy regen works?
im legit out of energy in opener on dimensius randomly lol
never happened before
mighty citrus
But realistically it's minmaxxy cheese that contributes about 1% on 5 minute fi...
so i guess i need to remember and do it 😄
sharp lake
Yep I lied the tier bonus is more like 20%
mighty citrus
!wa
wicked joltBOT
mighty citrus
i could swear somebody linked a wa for the prepullsod 😄
strange chasm
We love spymasters trinkets
Although I wish Lilly was buffed a crazy amount so we can just macro and forget
swift tinsel
i could swear somebody linked a wa for the prepullsod 😄
I have one if you click the Find Weakeness one from the list there and go to my profile
sharp lake
I really like Harvester’s Edict for some reason it’s super fun
dusk stone
dont think i can look back at old 4p
swift tinsel
Might need to scroll down a bit
dusk stone
but i am fairly sure it was like 10.5 or something
mighty citrus
I have one if you click the Find Weakeness one from the list there and go to my ...
ty
swift tinsel
Np np
dusk stone
because 4p to 4p it was like 17% flat aura buff
neon frigate
Wow is it me or is sub rogue pretty strong now in dmg and aoe?
sharp lake
It’s nice being in the top half of specs instead of the bottom half
void needle
because 4p to 4p it was like 17% flat aura buff
The sim I linked genuinely doesn't take stats into account, pure apples to apples assuming same stats from gear. The bonus from the actual 4p set is about 13%, you will definitely reap higher gains when including the ilvl jump with better gear.
mighty citrus
strange bug: iam hitting a dummy but my backstab shows iam not in range (the red number).
dusk stone
fuu's spreadsheet was accounting for new ilvl?
mighty citrus
dusk stone
that doesnt seem right, we are way too strong with it
chrome fern
so i need some clarity,
In ideal situations you just have sec tec ready for blades window.
(i dont know the timing) but say you are 30s away from that window, and you have 1 charge of dance with the other on a 40s cd. and sec tec is ready to use.
is this the situation where you send a symbols buffed sectec with no dance. or is there times where you would hold sectec. further to this, i would assume we hold flag / blades till we have the 2 dance + sectec ready
void needle
It's actually old ilvl, it sims the new 4p effect while still wearing 684 spectral gamblers items
warm marlin
<@135762418251988992>
Ain’t no way
dusk stone
as long as you have sectec <9 seconds and an extra or will overcap on symbols, send it
worst you have to do is hold cd's a little bit
chrome fern
kk, so hold cd's over sectec, and make sure there are 2 dances for cd's
dusk stone
depends the actual rule is like 1.7 to 2 dances per raid fight encounter and 1.5 or so for keys
35s on flag for raid and like 22s~ for keys
chrome fern
yeah yeah, i dont mean 2 banked, but having the second one ready 12s after first
dusk stone
thats the typical rule
sometimes its better to have full 2 charges
if you are gonna 18 stack trinket use 3 dances
whats with the enchants this patch i havent changed mine
seems were going for stats?
chrome fern
if you are gonna 18 stack trinket use 3 dances
im only touching heroic, so unlikely to have use for 3 min cd's
void needle
seems were going for stats?
On the weapons? Yeah
I've seen double vers enchants pop up in sim a lot, but I think it's bugged. Surely another 8% uptime on the vers proc is not better than another 20% you could be getting on a crit or mast enchant
dusk stone
cool, i will not be swapping between raid and m+ enchants this patch then
wdym
stoundbound is just copy of the vers one 1:1 no?
chrome fern
35s on flag for raid and like 22s~ for keys
so just to check on this, that means when flag cd is below 35s, you send a sectec without dance. and then wait for sec tec to flag window
dusk stone
3910 for 12 seconds on both
void needle
Stonebound is the vers one?
dusk stone
stonebound is mastery
dusk stone
not sure why were using mastery enchant for ST last i looked at stat weights mastery was really diminished
lilac stag
!wa
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
Having 2 enchants just doubles the amount of stat the proc gives
void needle
No
Each individual spell id has an icd.
Using a second enchant will not double uptime on the buff, only increase it by about 8%
cinder isle
Why does my BP do piss damage?
void needle
Use finality in aoe
It's bugged and makes bp do a fair amount more damage than listed in the talent. It amps every mirrored 30% for find weakness
cinder isle
so shuriken into BP in aoe after pressing sec tec?
dusk stone
were putting two rings of Enchant Ring - Radiant Versatility on?
left ledge
so shuriken into BP in aoe after pressing sec tec?
You press storm once or twice for fw
Then strike into bp
void needle
were putting two rings of Enchant Ring - Radiant Versatility on?
That's more gear dependent, like I said crit is being prio'd pretty heavily right now in even st sims'
dusk stone
the finality build isnt like a massive dps increase
cinder isle
ooooohhh! will try it out. thank you!
dusk stone
0.1% i think
and you can feel the not having FW thing
for rings its 1 cursed 1 radiant right
hybrid compass
hello is sub hard to learn?
dusk stone
sub hard to learn easier to master
hybrid compass
I see, because I wanted to learn it for raid as I dont really like fatebound assa in fights like nexus king or dimensius but ive literally only played assa since i started playing
molten citrus
Using a second enchant will not double uptime on the buff, only increase it by a...
I think that’s what he was saying lol
dusk stone
I see, because I wanted to learn it for raid as I dont really like fatebound ass...
you could do it in under a week yeah
its bis for forgeweaver too
void needle
I think that’s what he was saying lol
"2 enchants just doubles the amount of stat the proc gives" He said it doubles the stat value, the buff does not stack
hybrid compass
I guess yea but I tried sub like once on dummies and the amount of effort was overwhelming a bit I think
dusk stone
its hard to learn and easier to master, once you get it, it clicks
hazy breach
Look at how to do the opener
hybrid compass
should I spam keys as sub or just hit dummies to get the grip
hazy breach
then you do that exact sequence
every 90s
Everytime
And thats like 85%+ of playing sub
dusk stone
idk
as a newer sub player its harder for me to conceptualize moving cd's around in raid
but yeah opener is 85% of the spec and other 15% is the rules you have to learn i would say
cerulean beacon
!wa
wicked joltBOT
bleak night
Real
lucid jackal
It's not rocket science
molten citrus
"2 enchants just doubles the amount of stat the proc gives" He said it doubles ...
Usually when using 2 of the same enchants it does increase the amount or am I trippin
lucid jackal
Thankfully
fickle mason
Do you guys ever get where your shadow blades trinket macro doesnt yse the trinket? Been annoying lately
dusk stone
i had a macro bug yesterday where it refused to use blades
gaunt bluff
why am i not regening energy here? am i missing something?
dusk stone
but only on bosses, it worked on trash
tepid trellis
why am i not regening energy here? am i missing something?
looks like you werent auto attacking him due to facing the way you did (just looking at your ShT stacks not moving)
gaunt bluff
im learning only now i need to auto attack to regen energy
yeah i guess hitbox is weird
tepid trellis
the animation of auto attacks can still happen even if you arent properly facing them
old ass game
and dimensius hitbox is a load of bs
gaunt bluff
i lost like half of my pulls my opener
cus i didnt have energy for shadowstrike eviscerate
i thought its some lag shenaningangs
dusk stone
is anyone else having targetting issues in eco dome
it just seems randomly in there targets are not in range
tepid trellis
@hazy breach not bad for first try at soulbinder
grizzled sage
hey why do we bp at 3+ target instead of eviscerate + nimble flurry ? when i compare both rotation i feel like i deal more with evi
grizzled sage
thats the answer
thx
dusk stone
i see
cerulean beacon
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
cerulean beacon
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
vale pine
<@212854714197344256> not bad for first try at soulbinder
nicuuuu, we deepesing
tepid trellis
nicuuuu, we deepesing
the hc araz was a bit funny too
vale pine
8m dps nice nice
void hound
<@212854714197344256> not bad for first try at soulbinder
do you guys not have evoker?
cerulean beacon
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
spare oar
Whats the current max renown for the raid buff?
hazy breach
<@212854714197344256> not bad for first try at soulbinder
We killed before the big set at the end so didnt get to ultra pad 
But it was some real good padding anyway
formal gull
Guys if i want to craft a dagger to play assa & sub what's the best stats to take?
random comet
tight monolith
anything except haste really
pure jay
this is only part of the rotation if we have it talented right?
dry plank
fight start on Fractalus and i got lag for 30+ seconds and by the time i got back controll on my char it was 30% on normal
nice job by the dev team, great raid xD
latent finch
this is only part of the rotation if we have it talented right?
Shurikan storm is baseline not a talent
vale pine
this is only part of the rotation if we have it talented right?
!coup explains it, #2 and the explenation part
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
pure jay
!coup explains it, #2 and the explenation part
tyty
tepid trellis
We killed before the big set at the end so didnt get to ultra pad <:SAD:71820773...
rate my araz note
lucid jackal
Its literally obvious lol
pure jay
Its literally obvious lol
lucid jackal
U hold until the purple puddle spawns
CD on CD afterwards
Hold for burn
then CD on cd
pure jay
wdym by cd on cd, haven't heard that before tbh
lucid jackal
Use your cooldowns on cooldown
pure jay
gotcha, took me a second
i always tend to struggle with sub spec among the 3 doing what i can to figure it out for tonight
bleak wind
anyone got a reminder WA for the cold blood bug cos these shit devs are pissing me off now
solar thicket
!guides
solar thicket
Quick question, with the new tier set we still use Black Powder over 7+ targets?
lucid jackal
Use it on 4 or more
lilac stag
3
brave monolith
2
solar thicket
nimble flurry is nerfed or why its 4 now?
solar thicket
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
prime raven
hey guys should we play double daggers or can i have 1dagger and 1 mace ?
prime raven
ty
lilac stag
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
solar thicket
If Im over 4 targets using BP, I suppose I need to use coup of grace right when I have it right?
kindred seal
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
night sparrow
here we goooo
swift tinsel
If Im over 4 targets using BP, I suppose I need to use coup of grace right when ...
Yep you still coup in aoe
jagged rover
maaan, 15 runed short of pushing my gloves to 704, and haven't been able to get gloves to drop from halls or streets while spamming them
pearl charm
on damage amps, like forgeweaver, do we want flag to do the direct damage or the mastery for the amp?
jagged rover
You care about the mastery, flag damage itself is low
prime raven
guys i dont understand when should we shuriken storm and black powder
shuriken storm on 3+ target without flawless form
but we are always in flawless form
so when should we cast ss ?
jagged rover
just shuriken storm in aoe outside of dance
prime raven
on how many targets ?
cursive vapor
Bp on 4+ targets
cursive vapor
Bp got buffed so 4+ now
prime raven
oh okay thanks
jagged rover
shuriken storm in 3 targets outside of dance
not worth thinking about harder as youll just cost yourself dps trying to overthink it
prime raven
okay thanks guys
loud brook
does our gcd change with haste? like does haste actually have no benefit at all on us?
cursive vapor
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
open depot
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hidden jasper
yo, any sub gamers in here who got to progress Soul Hunters on mythic already?
serene notch
I know I keep getting wrapped around the axel for when to BP in blades, I will just test it when I finally get a freaking chance to play.
Am I to take it @vale pine article needs to be updated then?
hazy breach
Yes its 4 or more
serene notch
I hate it maybe that’s why I don’t wanna believe
round grotto
Hi , do you guys spread rupture on aoe before u do the opener ? or do u just full send
or it depends on target count
serene notch
Situational depending on how long it takes tank gather pull
cursive vapor
Hi , do you guys spread rupture on aoe before u do the opener ? or do u just ful...
Good thing is to spread rupture outside your cd’s on targets with the highest health
round grotto
so i can replace the first rupture with evis on aoe opener to get Slice ?
dusk stone
Hi , do you guys spread rupture on aoe before u do the opener ? or do u just ful...
you tricks the tank and spread rupture until gather is done
then you pop 18 netherprism and ascend to godhood
(and you find out netherprism didn't work because macros are broken)
haughty mural
then you pop 18 netherprism and ascend to godhood
So you gather 180 sec long ? 
lilac stag
macros on sub aren’t recommended. Don’t have issues when they break. 
violet palm
I can't understand how to counteract late cp refund after CDG?
dusk stone
macros on sub aren’t recommended. Don’t have issues when they break. <:omegalul:...
talking about blades macro being broken
lilac stag
so am I
dusk stone
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
lilac stag
Just have your trinket separate
wheat elk
this normal?
warm marlin
Sectec looks low
lilac stag
BP is low
dusk stone
or just don't use use in game macro tbh
logitech way better and i almost want to ahk this garbo in game feature
wheat elk
i was the obly prio so was doing evis on big momma and other stuff so
lilac stag
get yourself banned.
serene notch
@hazy breach if we always BP at 4 what do you make of the highest parse on FG being so weighted on nimble flurry?
hazy breach
Wdym
chrome palm
so does this trinket just suck
dusk stone
auto hotkey custom macro program
chrome palm
1 proc on 2:40 fight
lilac stag
TOS says no external programs. You can remap keys. Can’t macro them.
serene notch
Wdym
If you look at his damage break down it’s very heavily weighed towards nimble flurry
Vs BP as one would expect if we are always BPing at 4
I see other worse parses more heavily weighted with BP
warm marlin
Big momma and duo boss are probably going to weight it more than normal
serene notch
Yea but whole dungeon?
lilac stag
also it’s week 2 not everyone going to play it how discord says is correct
warm marlin
Or he’s just an eviscerate enjoyer 
lilac stag
no one played this spec for an entire season in keys
serene notch
For sure but that outlier is the top parse is evis-ing which at the very least is anecdotally interesting
hazy breach
Well he is eviscerating priority mobs
And also nimble does more than BP anyway because coup, strikes and unseen blades
serene notch
And also happens to do the most damage? Not arguing, I just think it’s interesting.
hazy breach
On the overall
serene notch
Really? That’s not what I see when looking at other too parses
I see heavy weighted on BP
vale pine
Am I to take it <@194804407706189824> article needs to be updated then?
oh, i probably forgot to update that part of the guide, will do tomorrow
thanks for letting me know
dusk stone
but yeah speaking of broken macros, what is going on, i had very simple /shadow blades /tempered potion /prism /cb and it just refused to use it in raid last night
it worked on the trash fine
but on boss pull no
fluid fiber
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
next otter
!gear
wicked joltBOT
mental saffron
Probably a commonly asked question, but if you play Ritual Forge as sub, do you delay cds to play every 2 min or do you play on cd still
wheat elk
better?
fossil forge
Why does ur nimble flurry does 0
wheat elk
it's a 15 minute boost run on a +10 XD
fossil forge
Oh
lilac stag
Probably a commonly asked question, but if you play Ritual Forge as sub, do you ...
If you are not running prism you treat it as a 3min trinket
last sorrel
bind it on sectec and hope for the best
jagged rover
even in halls which is pretty BP heavy my flurry is way ahead. THink I've had like one or two dungeons this season where BP was ahead, maybe
haughty rose
how tf do sub rogues reach 8m on forgereaver?
haughty rose
at no point in the burst phase did details showed anything higher than 4,5m or so
jagged rover
I mean without looking at logs is impossible to say. Maybe your gear isn't as good, didn't have a full prism stack, etc., lots of reasons
umbral socket
If u want to figure out what ur doing wrong u need to compare logs urself or post it asking for feedback
jagged rover
this was my forgeweaver this week, but I have 4 ilvls since then and a better prism, antenna, etc
haughty rose
no i'm not really asking for advice. just how tf they put those insane numbers lmao
umbral socket
By abusing the damage amp and adds
jagged rover
if you look at just the damage amp, we're one of the best classes, and then add damage I'm top by far. its all just playing the spec to its strengths in the fight
left ledge
no i'm not really asking for advice. just how tf they put those insane numbers l...
Are you 705+ ilvl with 720+ weapon in main hand and doing mythic forge?
left parcel
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
fossil forge
how tf do sub rogues reach 8m on forgereaver?
delay first cds match with ads spawn
violet palm
I am very triggered. Why do I get late cp refunds after coup sometimes? Is it internet issue or what’s happening?
hazy breach
Nop thats just how it is, every hit of coup can refund if you are at 7 cp
pliant topaz
oh that bugs still in the game? xd
shadow lance
Yeah, that's shit
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
warm marlin
Forge first flag
Prism second
Forge third
Prism 4th
clever delta
so i can make macro wich use forge first when ready
cos it will be ready only when suppose to
or im trippin
hazy breach
Yesnt, if you end up holding your cds for a bit you could end up using forge instead of a 18 stacked prism
With a macro like that
tender frost
prob not worth using double on use with lily instead of forge right
hazy breach
Not really no
violet palm
Nop thats just how it is, every hit of coup can refund if you are at 7 cp
So I must track shadow tech also to not miss refunds. It’s basically waiting for me to be at 7shadow tech stacks while striking if I couped under 7. Correct? Or it’s just random refund whenever?
tender frost
is this some custom apl thing because pacemaker smokes my lily as double on use
swift tinsel
so does this trinket just suck
if that's from sigil that's definitely broken because it was proccing all the time on ptr
bleak night
if im playing with tfd and a second sectec comes up at the end of my first dance, do i send it with symbols and cb?
clever delta
its break even lily with pace
bleak night
then just make sure i press second dance before the clones hit?
clever delta
clever delta
then just make sure i press second dance before the clones hit?
yes
tender frost
mythic forge down in 16 pulls -.-
lame
raw wadi
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
raw wadi
!bug
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
tender frost
was there some change to sims between yday and today? double on use shot up a ton for me
tepid trellis
apl might have been updated to support it
clever delta
is double on use good in keys too
tame terrace
__Subtlety Macros:__
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Co...
the 2nd macro, is that assuming u only have one of those trinkets equipped
sturdy moat
Im a bit lost on sub in m+, your main aoe with dance up is ss -> bp?
haughty field
!guide
sturdy moat
ss could mean ss or ss there
my b forgot both builders are ss i meant shadow strike into bp
chrome palm
You can ss in dance
ornate current
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
dusk stone
if target is fazed yeah
chrome palm
soulbinder is a peak sub fight
tame terrace
oh do we never coup outside of dance
mild brook
is there any reason why my cold blood sec tec macro doesnt actually use my cold blood? With the changes does it need to be pressed manually?
bitter tiger
whats the aoe rota?
tepid trellis
soulbinder is a peak sub fight
id say araz is better
chrome palm
it is for sure
slate marlin
oh do we never coup outside of dance
I do if i proc it like 30 secs before cds, im not going to use shadow dance bc i might have to delay cds if i do, and im not going to sit there with a coup for 30 seconds
chrome palm
id say araz is better
i kill tonight 
sick sand
guys how are we using Prism and Lilly together?
tepid trellis
why would u do that to yourself
tepid trellis
lily just sucks together with prism, like just get a passive trinket together with prism at that point
alpine wraith
only pair prism with forge or pvp trink using another 1:30 makes no sense
bitter tiger
What is our rotation in Cleave?
alpine wraith
yea get crystal or antenna or pacemaker
bitter tiger
better said in aoe
alpine wraith
What is our rotation in Cleave?
mostly using strike and finishers depending on target count
sick sand
ty ty
alpine wraith
try to use sec tech as it is available in dance
mighty citrus
when i watch the streamers, why it is important for them to see unseen blade?
mighty citrus
but you send sectec always first no?
how do you react on coup?
i may have missed something
bitter tiger
mostly using strike and finishers depending on target count
Do i Black Powder or do i Eviscerate in aoe? xD
alpine wraith
bp if 4 or more targets
bitter tiger
up to 4 targets evis?
alpine wraith
yes
bitter tiger
when i go for shuriken storm?
alpine wraith
outside dance or in between coups with blades up
fiery rampart
bitter tiger
4 times shadowstrike or Backstab -> Coup?
swift tinsel
how do i track Coup in best way and how do i generate it xD?
unseen blade, which procs from shadowstrike or backstab
tepid trellis
4 unseen blade procs = coup
fierce lintel
Every 5 seconds but can be reset from talent
tepid trellis
and they have a chance to proc on backstab and shadowstrike
swift tinsel
20 seconds
fierce lintel
Oh then it gets reset super frequently
dense mountain
yo stealthi, if im going into Blades with a coup ready, would i just send: SS > SecTec > SS > Coup? and just munch a proc of unseenblades?
bitter tiger
do i go Flagellation and shadowblades together ?
tepid trellis
those 3 is what interacts with it
fierce lintel
Ahhh ok
tepid trellis
yo stealthi, if im going into Blades with a coup ready, would i just send: SS > ...
build to full sectech-backstab-coup-storm-coup
fierce lintel
Wouldn't you not backstab
tepid trellis
or if you are afk the 10 sec before you can prolly skip the backstab
if you proc shadowcraft
left parcel
im trying to learn sub in m+ and its making me feel so stupid
bitter tiger
do i go Flagellation and shadowblades together ? °
Or what i THE Opener Rotation? 😄
tepid trellis
or if you know the first coup will proc Shadowcraft you can swap the backstab with storm
dense mountain
okay thats what i thought just wanted to see how bad it was to munch the UB proc from sectec
native zodiac
can you shadowstep the breaks on frac or does it fuck the wallbreak?
autumn flame
im i dumb or if my coup procs shadowcraft dont i just hit coup again?
fierce lintel
Yeah
tepid trellis
yes you would hit it again
autumn flame
ah ok read it wrong
dense mountain
stealthi can you upload your kill pov's from this tier again so i can steal your timings 
dense mountain
ye im prob only playing sub on araz + saladbar and maybe dimi
autumn flame
what yall crafting this week? lookin like a ring/shoulders if unlucky on loomy
tepid trellis
i did hc bracers with ascension buff thingy
mighty citrus
which was our araz kill tonight
did you send cds on boss at start or waited as well 30s?
sick sand
when we usually use prism?
tepid trellis
send at 25
mighty citrus
did your guild move the boss out and let the ghost there in the adds near the void tear?
i feel like i cant get my flag stacks up
mighty citrus
mh i see, we did other way around today, i mentioned it maybe be better to have boss there but no 😄
tepid trellis
jagged rover
only need enough damage on the add to kill before the next one, doesn't make much sense to have the boss away
carmine cape
hey guys 🙂 can anyone tell me why sub rogue cant macro cold blood with sec tq ?
mighty citrus
i cant imagine a reason whats better on keeping the ghost there
grave delta
What do i farm as 2nd trinket for forgeweaver if I only have netherprism and no ritual forge? is it pvp on use trinket time or what
grave delta
good shout no farming just run antenna and go to bed
alpine wraith
pvp trink is fine but likely it is better to get a good passive
mighty citrus
<:sleepge:1017855245017165864> good shout no farming just run antenna and go t...
for me sigil is simming higher than antenna
just take this 😄
grave delta
is that the council trinket
clever delta
and it literary sim same as as playing prism + pacemaker
on all sims from 4 to 8 min
grave delta
I'm getting the boots and trinket on monday from them I guess 
clever delta
its breakeven at all
dim trail
#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
this macro still works?
clever delta
yes
dim trail
somehow mine doesnt work
tepid trellis
relog
bitter tiger
do we play cold blood
tepid trellis
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
weak flame
idk all the rogues in top 5 are playing double use
mighty citrus
so for araz they insist to move the boss out first. so i have 2 options, flag boss early and hope i get full stacks and then swap to ghost or flag ghost and miss first hits on adds?
whats your suggestion here guys
tepid trellis
tell them to tank the boss correctly
bitter tiger
So we dont play cb?
clever delta
stealthi do you know
whats the diff for fatebound between using prism with vendeta and banish
vanish
mighty citrus
tell them to tank the boss correctly
they argue its stupid to switch to the add when it could be there all the time 😄
i lost
jesus
i was swapped out on lomi as well, cause my tangle dmg was low
tepid trellis
you just kill adds with boss
clever delta
ok
tepid trellis
then swap to the echo
mighty citrus
lord help me
scarlet radish
New weak aura out lads
tepid trellis
then back to boss
clever delta
i will just use it with dm than
tepid trellis
and you only do that on the first echo
next two echos you largely just ignore outside of ranged cleaving it
scarlet radish
New weak aura out lads
X
mighty citrus
next two echos you largely just ignore outside of ranged cleaving it
yeah thats what i prepped but i have lost again already
it is what it is
chrome palm
!def
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <
carmine cape
i thought it was removed 😄 i was scared a little 😄
mighty citrus
ah i see now
they play method
and thats why kush send cds on pull
cause he could not utilize there
alpine wraith
and it literary sim same as as playing prism + pacemaker
it is more of a tactical play with how bosses work with adds and amps
and also to have dmg on pull
in m+ it is to have more tactical nukes
winter ice
i was swapped out on lomi as well, cause my tangle dmg was low
Benched till forge
void needle
You can symbols before
fierce lintel
just the 2 supercharged
cinder axle
I just got my 4 set and somehow the second coupe dosent feel like its reducing the CDs like the first coupe?
Am I stupid or is that right
distant sage
!up
wicked joltBOT
spice escarp
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
lilac stag
Think i was 2nd on dmg on loomithar this reset
Running sub?
mental flume
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
loomi is weird
sometimes i do good dmg other times not that much if you hit the adds does it cleave boss?
maybe only hit them when they get closer and maybe delay cds a bit so you can hit adds+boss more reliably?
fierce lintel
anyone got a weak aura on the time until first dance activates in between combats
sonic turret
What should I be doing in downtime between SB and flag? I’ve kinda just been spamming backstab and evis, but I feel like I’m losing lots of dps in downtime. I’m usually pulling 2mil dps in m+ at 693 with 2 set
fierce lintel
using shadow dance lol
shadow dance and symbols
using like 2 shadow dances until next cd's
you can squeeze in 3 with 4 piece
sonic turret
So I keep shadows dance up and hold symbols?
Most the guides I’ve read say to hold 2 of each for burst windows, and I haven’t quite figured out timing
fierce lintel
one shadow dance = one symbols use
you want like 1 1/3 shadow dance when cd's come up
sonic turret
Gotcha, I’ve been holding 2 haha
lilac stag
2nd dance should have 30 seconds or less on its cd
fierce lintel
you first dance will get your second dance off cd
sonic turret
Gotcha, is sub a class that really tops the dps in m+/raid or am I mostly there for cc util
fierce lintel
it can in m+
not in raid
I mean it can in raid if the group is undergeared or sucks
m+ it 100% can top meters
sonic turret
I used to play sin but wanted to push sub this season and it’s waaaayy harder it seems haha
hazy breach
Sub does very very very good damage now
fierce lintel
you're
hazy breach
In keys
fierce lintel
the longer you play it
the more you can judge if you can spend a shadow dance on a pack
and get value
sonic turret
Yea that’s the other thing I’m trying to time cds coming up to bosses but I think that just comes with time
lilac stag
Sub does very very very good damage now
I’m scared when we lose 4pc 
bleak night
damage aside losing 4p is gonna feel bad
it just feels so good to play
minor gripes aside like the weird late cp refunds
sonic turret
Losing 4pc? I’m a filthy casual
swift tinsel
ye I'm really, really hoping it makes it into the midnight tree
lilac stag
ye I'm really, really hoping it makes it into the midnight tree
Or just fix our baseline to behave more like we do with 4pc
I’m sure the excuse will be 12.1.5 cause DH development.
swift tinsel
idk realz said he didn't work on voidman
swift tinsel
my Unlimited Blade Works of Copium take is that he's busy working on rogue stuff for midnight
lilac stag
Let me guess you preordered midnight
swift tinsel
nah fuck that I never preorder shit
swift tinsel
pre-release is still a lagfest so I'm not paying extra to experience it
swift tinsel
not paying $90 for any of that nonsense lol
lilac stag
Which one?
bleak night
i have ideas for both of them
mainly the void one though so gg me
i might not bother with that much
kind lagoon
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
stone hemlock
guys i'm a severe altoholic,and i think beside enhance sub is the spec ive been struggling most with.Any general tips thats not mention in rotational guides
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
bitter tiger
What are the best M+ Talents for all instances?
Or do we switch between the keys?
lilac stag
Play the build you like. Run it everywhere
bitter tiger
Do we play with or without shuriken tornado?
alpine wraith
tornado depends on how you use it
if you dont like it you can just not run it
although it is useful in its own way
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
kind lagoon
nice
distant sage
storm feels nice in aoe to farm shadow dances
kind lagoon
!up
wicked joltBOT
kind lagoon
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
bitter tiger
Why do we backstab after?
stone hemlock
is subs st beter than assa's?
hazy breach
No
lilac stag
raid. No. Keys. Yes.
kind lagoon
Keys giga yes
woeful wren
Boys, does any1 have vods of this season in keys I could watch? Want to see how ppl play outside of CD windows
twin quartz
**Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:**```yaml
#Showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast [bon...
That’s a useful macro I’ve never considered. Been cursed with ‘shift+1’ as the best option for my backstab in dance button
lilac stag
Boys, does any1 have vods of this season in keys I could watch? Want to see how ...
Hit storm. Hit rupture if they live long enough. Else hit BP
you’re literally just farming CDR
woeful wren
And around 20-25 seconds before flag is back dnt use anything?
cooldown wise
Also since it uses tea, do u pool to not trigger?
lilac stag
You want 1 full dance charge, and 30 seconds or less remaining on second going into flag
twin quartz
That’s why shuriken tornado is so good. In aoe, you farm like 30s of a dance in 4 globals or something
lilac stag
Tea is macro to dance and forget about it.
woeful wren
Yeah but it will auto use tea
steel zinc
Keys giga yes
Without funnel yes otherwise no
steel zinc
Sub does very very very good damage now
Nah need buff. Close the discord 
kind lagoon
its not worth playing around
celest jolt
is shadowdance +cheapshot dead in one global? I use to have that macro a few patches ago, just came back
fallen crescent
is there a way to sim different flasks
tacit coral
**Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:**```yaml
#Showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast [bon...
i use this macro but sometimes it just acts weird and doesnt send the backstab
stoic pier
The general rogue talent Shadowheart stays up during Shadow Dance ?
bleak night
nope
it works for the very first hit from stealth then goes away forever
its a very strong talent
stoic pier
XD
dusk stone
Boys, does any1 have vods of this season in keys I could watch? Want to see how ...
You can watch casualaddict on yt
Very good player
proper latch
I missed the moment they fixed Rotten
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
iron plover
hey guys, what causes shadowstrike to sometimes not general full combo points?
hazy breach
Shadowstrike generates 3 combo points
Shadow techniques is what is giving you more combo points
potent nimbus
on m forgeweaver, are we black powdering at all or just ss - evis onto boss?
or only ss - bp when theres like the stack of 7mobs?
fossil forge
should my dmg graph look like this gang
bright elk
so in AoE when we're spamming shuriken storm and BP, we just dont benefit from our 4p tier at all right
dusk stone
So is sub better than sin in keys now? Like officially or are we just hyped because we're good atm
hybrid compass
why should I shuriken storm in ST here?
bright elk
why should I shuriken storm in ST here?
so you dont waste the hidden blade proc or w/e it was called
hazy breach
It should be during blades
Not all the time
But while the 4p is up you cannot build stacks towards your next coup, you need to use the second coup first
wheat elk
eleem got a question
hazy breach
And most of the time youll have an unseen blade ready from either sectech or just a rng proc that you wouldnt want to waste
So you storm instead
wheat elk
if you do a coup and you immidiately got your combos back, should you do the second coup or use a finisher
wheat elk
i mean
bright elk
lol
hazy breach
Why would you use a builder if you are at max combo points
wheat elk
cuz ive seen you say use storm between the coups
hazy breach
As your builder yes
But you dont need to build cp
If you are already at max
Thats the ideal scenario
wheat elk
thats only instead of ss?
hazy breach
Then you dont have to do a shitty storm
dusk stone
It's all in the guide guys
hazy breach
And you can just keep striking
wheat elk
aight
dusk stone
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
hybrid compass
1more question is there somewhere like the overall good/decent talent build for M+ because I see on wowhead theres a build with either tea and cold blood or should I just run tea as a starter
void needle
Rotten smotten
double finality ftw
From my experience, shuriken storm actually applies fw pretty consistently without it
Inevitability is the bigger loss imo
dusk stone
I thought so at first too
pseudo hollow
@teal prawn shot 5 over on the practice round. Got some coaching from one of the guys. We might be competitive 🙂↕️
winter ice
!wa
wicked joltBOT
teal prawn
<@221124352861667340> shot 5 over on the practice round. Got some coaching from ...
Did you mean for this to be in here 
pseudo hollow
Did you mean for this to be in here <:kekW:620386906634584095>
No but they need to know too
hazy breach
Fair enough
pseudo hollow
Idk how I even ended up in here I haven’t been in this channel in like a year 
steel horizon
we still send sectec 1st in dance even if we enter dance with coup ready?
(outside of blades)
dusk stone
You guys think liquid is gonna take it with them being sick and how efficient echo has been with the pull count?
dire saddle
DO we get a 2nd craft this week?>
void needle
Every dance outside blades, with no coup it's still fine to evis first for an extra danse stack?
void needle
DO we get a 2nd craft this week?>
This week is 2nd total sparks
So 2 crafts or a single 2h total
dire saddle
Tf
How have I not gotten ym other half spark then
Did like 10 raid bosses and 2 dungeons
void needle
Complete weekly quest
dire saddle
I see
void needle
The ones outside the inn in dornogal. They should list the spark half as a reward
dire saddle
Thanks a bunch
void needle
Did like 10 raid bosses and 2 dungeons
It has a chance to drop from m+ or raid bosses, if you are catching up on sparks. If you are a week behind
void needle
1more question is there somewhere like the overall good/decent talent build for ...
Tea technically sims higher in pure aoe about 1.5% better than cb, while it's about 2% behind in st. Both are viable, plenty of top raid parses running tea, plenty of high keys timed on cb
Personally I think if you are switching to fb sin rogue for raid fights, you should just run tea. I've seen a lot of mythic parses where they spec cb and can't use it because of the bug, in which case tea is actually better
dusk stone
Thanks for the idea
supple verge
nice i got a heroic prism
void needle
gratz
supple verge
karma for needing to buy my hoc
hazy breach
Gzzz
void needle
I got offers over 500k for normal antenna
supple verge
crazy lol
are people still just amcroing this to shadowblades
like any other onuse
void needle
You can, but it's a spymaster style trinket with stacking att buff. It's nice to be able to choose when to use it
void needle
90 seconds gets you about 9 stacks, 2nd cd set gets you full stacks
It lines up really well if you want to hold burst for amp
But it also works just fine every 90, which you can do if it's a patchwerk style fight
supple verge
makes sense thanks!
hazy breach
Big stacks = Big fun on big pulls in keys
supple verge
yea really looking forward to that
hazy breach
Cant be hitting 60M on details with 9 stacks
distant sage
i think even delves drop them
void needle
Cant be hitting 60M on details with 9 stacks
I need a ballsy prot warrior to set up the biggest pull I've ever seen
torn storm
rate my araz note
do you only send 1x in between 2min cds and the amp for real?
like afk on collector?
void needle
Pull up to first boss on eco dome or something
That would be a disgusting pull, the rest of the group is on cc duty XD
dusk stone
We out here showing shamans what a real ascension looks like with 18 stacks
void needle
Ascension? Is that even strong :p
Can't tell from the meters
Double on use makes every blades look like ascendance
Absolutely disgusting burst
I can't wait
For them to nerf sub because the trinkets are strong
stoic pier
!up
wicked joltBOT
ripe flame
quick q, are you guys mayhaps using crippling poison on forgeweaver on mythic?
void needle
It's not a bad choice I suppose
ripe flame
I see, I'd be forced to ss or bp to apply it right? flurry does not?
void needle
Night terrors is a little more consistent
void needle
Flurry doesn't do fuck all lmao
void needle
I also don't see a raid comp with enough rogues where atrophic wouldn't be good though
distant sage
how do you guys use rapture if its not while tank is gathering packs
hazy breach
While not in dance on targets that arent gonna die immediately
dusk stone
how do you guys use rapture if its not while tank is gathering packs
In-between dances outside of cds, it is most productive damage aside double coup
If outside cds is rupture on all targets that have relevant hp? If no then put rupture on, and continue stabbing
hazy breach
You can think of it this way, you do no damage while outside dance right
If you apply rupture, those are gonna continue to tick later on when you do dance
So its effectively applying in-dance finishers while outside dance
distant sage
ill keep it in mind
didnt really feel the exaustion from using my cds with this 4 set
i use shuriken storm to farm up my dances
but im not doing abnormally high keys
toxic topaz
how do we use double on use netherprism/forge
hazy breach
Rotate them every other
toxic topaz
Tyvm, so forge on pull, prism next blades, and so on
hazy breach
Yes
toxic topaz
tyvm 🙂
swift tinsel
yay four new talent points to put into shit
shut jay
dark brew is back baby
swift tinsel
that means they have to look at our tree bc they're adding stuff
shut jay
maybe the one ability they modify is sectech, its capped to 8 finally
swift tinsel
lmao them giving us bugfixes as talent nodes would be peak blizzard
distant sage
they are adding talents to sub?
distant sage
ohhh nice
swift tinsel
now we can be spoiled and run both cb and tea
distant sage
cant wait for 0 variation
shut jay
gloomblade still a dead node
swift tinsel
when the robot tells you to switch gems/enchants/recraft
was around 22-24k for me
results may vary
distant sage
i was thinking of simming vers fiber cape and pot rn i have 21k
dusk stone
Gloom ignores armor too iirc
plush roost
i love this fight
raven patrol
When do we Shuriken Storm and Black Powder vs. Backstab and Eviscerate (with Nimble Flurry) in M+? Is there a certain target count we're looking for?
fickle jolt
7+ for ss+bp no?
raven patrol
Because if we SS and BP then it doesn't build Unseen Blade right?
dusk stone
Strike builds unseen yes
raven patrol
So in 3+ with FW we kinda just ignore Unseen Blade and Coupe de Grace?
dusk stone
Wdym ignore it
raven patrol
Since in let's say big pulls, we SS and BP
Ahhh okay
Strike in Dance regardless of target count?
hazy breach
Yes
raven patrol
Okay that makes more sense now, thanks!
hazy breach
And coup over BP
hazy breach
Yes
ember hound
short radish
Then do we storm to not waste procs or is that only a thing to do in sblade