it stacks up
#subtlety
dusk stone
so i'm sandbagging on 1st pulls?
lucid jackal
Yes the trinket is weak on pull
If first pull is that important you can use forge + prism but
But double on use is a bit overrated in general so
dusk stone
the trinkets also bad in raid too on pull?
tepid trellis
well yeah
dusk stone
i get its a nuke when we charge it but man thats kinda a steep ask
tepid trellis
it doesent change its functionality
jagged rover
exile shooting up the meters during the dragon burn was so satisfying
tepid trellis
tbf like its not really the amps fault
dusk stone
is the passive damage on the trinket any good at least
tepid trellis
he absolutely fucks up the platform
lucid jackal
He sky rocketed on dragon amp 
dusk stone
i just slam the thing at every 1:30 after first pull right
rocky ocean
dusk stone
and always sync'd with flag
jagged rover
he's close to the top before platforms, and everyone mostly stays even to him on add damage
going to platform
after platform, so he definitely gains
tepid trellis
he was ahead by 1mil to the 2nd before amp start
lucid jackal
stoic pier
!backstab
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
rocky ocean
heady bridge
that atrophic poison carried
jagged rover
this is his peak when the burn finishes
he dropped to around 7 mil for the burn start
jagged rover
while sub is waiting on cds to come back up
lusty root
rocky ocean
me and my guildies did a 13 DB with yoda
Literally every raid buff
tribal blade
Literally every raid buff
you don't stack raid buffs?
lunar bluff
me and my guildies did a 13 DB with yoda
prohethood smh
lunar bluff
sup cuh
old anchor
if i didnt get anything myth track
do i send gilded crest onto crafted wrist or bis trinkets
plush roost
me and my guildies did a 13 DB with yoda
I did 8.2m in an arakara 12 as sub, spec is fun when key level is low
Without prism :(((
tribal blade
I did 8.2m in an arakara 12 as sub, spec is fun when key level is low
niiice
plush roost
Bruv lucky lucjy
tribal blade
btw did they nerf prot pally kicks or something
plush roost
Gonna convince my entire raid to kill normal fractillus with me tommorow
tribal blade
every single dungeon these prot pallys are doing no kicks
tepid trellis
araz prism on nexus
plush roost
Havent been following race just saw the hypw
Makes sense, and he played double on forge?
tepid trellis
yep same trinkets there
plush roost
For the 18 prism amps ye?
tepid trellis
think he ran double on-use on fractilus as assa aswell cuz of kill timer
plush roost
Its hard 5 min fight?
short radish
every single dungeon these prot pallys are doing no kicks
start of season shit or something
plush roost
Yeee makes sense araz prism araz prism araz
short radish
people just holding cooldowns for next dungeon
summer crest
Just saw Sub was in the world first 7/8 boss kill and I have to ask if there is a way to know if you are going to get the 20% increased damage from backstabbing from behind? A weakaura or something?
Is there much else that requires rear positioning?
tepid trellis
Just saw Sub was in the world first 7/8 boss kill and I have to ask if there is ...
dw about it really
backstab does 0 dmg
plush roost
Its the most irrelevant thing of all things, u wanna be behind to apply find weakness vasically
summer crest
Ahh so its just CP generator?
tepid trellis
yes
tepid trellis
backstab hits like a wet napkin from a kids birthday party
summer crest
I wondered how it was balanced for modern gameplay mechanics. Last played rogue back in original BC
Still no way to weakaura to show if you are “behind” though? For find weakness?
tepid trellis
only reason you wanna try and be behind the boss at all times is becaue it applies FW from crits from behind the target
tepid trellis
just to have that up 100% of the time
fiery rampart
Type shit
fiery rampart
I’m coming back from assass I’m sick of all the fotm
vale pine
its secret first then evi/coup
summer crest
just to have that up 100% of the time
How would one ensure uptime on bosses where its not clear if you are behind? Ones like Dimensius or Fractillus that don’t have an obvious bum?
summer crest
Roger so even losing out on find weakness the dps is still good.
I wondered if perhaps there was an angle that counts as ‘behind’ for those type of bosses
tepid trellis
you apply FW with shadowstrike inside of dance anyway
so it will be up a good amount of time
summer crest
Ahh sorry I’ve got a lot to learn, I had overlooked that. Thank you mate, enjoy your day
vale pine
!loot
wicked joltBOT
boreal otter
Hey guys, I need some help to figure this vault out (one catalyst charge left, 3/4 tier set)
Bot is telling me to take tier set head but I'm wondering if in the long run it's not better to take chest and pray for some tier to drop in raid tonight
wild hornet
I’m coming back from assass I’m sick of all the fotm
I was never a fan of it
Mostly cause I got a 9 parse on assa
short aurora
!up
wicked joltBOT
orchid sand
when do you ideally want to swap ur belt for a normal one? sims says 704 is already better
vale pine
it depends, 710+ was what i had in simulations when i checked
but if it sims better, replace it
orchid sand
yeah just droptimizer, 704 hc this one sims best
vale pine
👍
stiff stirrup
any advice? D: been lost for a while, and I only do m+
as of now got 2 catalyst charges so wondering whats harder to farm in the future
steel zinc
any advice? D: been lost for a while, and I only do m+
as of now got 2 catalyst ...
all options are meh. Lilly is still strong but if you have prism you mostly play that
stiff stirrup
I dont see getting prism or forge anytime soon since I barely raid
steel zinc
I dont see getting prism or forge anytime soon since I barely raid
you can pug first 6
and normal is easier then lfr
astral axle
Kinda noob questions here, sorry in advanced. Presuming you know uptime isn't going to be disrupted, what is a good rule of thumb for holding dances before your next flag window? (e.g., you want to be on 1charge and 50 seconds about 10 seconds before flag)
Also, what's the ideal way to use CB in between flag windows? Is this even worth worrying about? I ask cause I notice either my sectech comes off cooldown with like 20ish seconds on CB. Do I hold the smaller window for that CB? I notice sometimes if I'm lucky I can send that SecTech and get the CB with the next available SecTech and still have enough dances for the upcoming flag window. But other times I'm not so lucky and... yeah haha :) makes things awkward
steep siren
I dont understand when do I use aoe spenders/generaters vs when I dont?
stiff stirrup
normal prism over myth lily?
steel zinc
normal prism over myth lily?
yeah
plush crescent
is our best 2nd craft wrists embelishment?
steel zinc
sim will say otherwise but that doesnt account for big pulls where you have stacked prism and dmg amps
steel zinc
is our best 2nd craft wrists embelishment?
yes
steel zinc
Kinda noob questions here, sorry in advanced. Presuming you know uptime isn't go...
!playstyle
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
steel zinc
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
astral axle
sorry to be dense, not seeing how these answer my questions
steep siren
I dont understand why dont you waant to proc unseen blade before using coupe?
steel zinc
I dont understand why dont you waant to proc unseen blade before using coupe?
because you lose stacks
steep siren
what stacks
astral axle
it advances to your next coup
steel zinc
from escalating blades
night rampart
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steel zinc
Kinda noob questions here, sorry in advanced. Presuming you know uptime isn't go...
If you knew to sub just do the opener and then go afk when your cds come up. In between your cds then do one dance with sectech.
If you can play the opener of sub you are 80% their rest is just planing out the fight and dances
fiery rampart
Hekili great addon
Teaches you rotation
I do big dam
Don’t know shit about fuck
dusk stone
ok
fiery rampart
I just slam
steel zinc
Teaches you rotation
thats wrong but yeah will help you to be ok
just not any good rogue
fiery rampart
steel zinc
or any good dps
dusk stone
i sandbagged giga hard and prism carried me, this thing is broken
steel zinc
assa is also one of the easiest melee specs
fiery rampart
Sub is easy too
steel zinc
sure sure
fiery rampart
Been playing it since shadowlands
Ok u got me
My bad
Keep asking for help don’t worry bro you’ll get it eventually
steel zinc
If you think hekili makes you a good player
I can tell you it wont
but if you just here to do 10s you can do that probably with any spec by just reading a guide
haughty mural
3k is a cake walk anyway
haughty mural
Idk what you are on about
steel zinc
Guy seems to have an ego with his addons
fiery rampart
No ego just saying hekili is good
steel zinc
it just doesnt make you a good player.
haughty mural
Use it.. nobody is stopping you
fiery rampart
Says who
steel zinc
yeah
fiery rampart
You?
cursive vapor
when you put the addons name in your name 
steel zinc
yeah
dusk stone
is there anyway to use a dummy or something to gain stacks before a key
steel zinc
is there anyway to use a dummy or something to gain stacks before a key
nope prism resets
dusk stone
like with what bond does with ele sham and that beachball thing
fiery rampart
Bro here fighting for his life against hekili like I insulted his bloodline
steel zinc
like with what bond does with ele sham and that beachball thing
doesnt work in m+ or raid works in hardmode though
haughty mural
Bragging about 10s and 3k as it is some Hof worthy shit
steel zinc
Bro here fighting for his life against hekili like I insulted his bloodline
Just that it does not make you any good player.
and 10 keys is nothing sorry
steel zinc
To actually know how to apply your rotation to a bossfight since most are based on a prio list
hollow spear
lmao, this guy types like he just spawned from a youtube comment section
steel zinc
yeah
cursive vapor
xD
steel zinc
insane
fiery rampart
steel zinc
if the addon was so broken why doesnt any good raider (I raid end of hall of fame) use it?
fiery rampart
That’s it
hollow spear
probably frantically reading through urban dictionary to find some new lame catchphrase to throw at you guys
fiery rampart
Who asked if others use or don’t use it how does it make you a bad player
astral axle
If you knew to sub just do the opener and then go afk when your cds come up. In ...
but with cdr on tier we can usually get two dance in no?
fiery rampart
Bros being a real Alaskan pipeline rn
steel zinc
Who asked if others use or don’t use it how does it make you a bad player
With timestamp
fiery rampart
Don’t need that only hekili and boss timers as my ui
Not clicking on useless link
From nobody’s
steel zinc
bro you also think the world is flatt or?
fiery rampart
Says you
hollow spear
Just don't feed the troll mate
keen dome
Pretty obvious troll with that name
steel zinc
ya
astral axle
he has a green leaf
steel zinc
😄
astral axle
came in to troll
hollow spear
Peace at last!
fiery rampart
But then when I type you’ll show the messages anyways cause you’re curious losers
So who’s up
Me again
haughty mural
but with cdr on tier we can usually get two dance in no?
The extra cdr is not as much as you think
keen dome
I got the Priory ring, which was nice.
haughty mural
You can use two dances after every other set
hollow spear
I got the Priory ring, which was nice.
Mastery/Vers, right?
haughty mural
Chest angle I guess
Already got legs ?
keen dome
Mastery/Vers, right?
Ye
hollow spear
Already got legs ?
Nah, I am just under-caffeinated
Meant legs of course
Could have used a ring for sure
night rampart
how does antenna play with the collect gimmick?
hollow spear
Will probably go for a ring or neck craft
haughty mural
Will probably go for a ring or neck craft
Same
keen dome
Probably be using it for the rest of the season so not the worst vault 1 pick, but I had such bad choices other than this haha
haughty mural
Yea that’s a good one for sure
keen dome
I didn't see it once last season either.
steel zinc
how does antenna play with the collect gimmick?
they run towards you and you auto collect
you can run away if you want you have 20 sec per orb to collect it
royal smelt
A fast question. Do we still use Black Powder in AOE +7 targets with 4 set or do swap it out with Eviscerate?
night rampart
they run towards you and you auto collect
doesnt sound like too big of a hassle for how much better it is than anything else
haughty mural
Meant legs of course
On the other hand - legs drop at loom
So depends when you will kill it
steel zinc
doesnt sound like too big of a hassle for how much better it is than anything el...
you want forge for any add fight
modest river
i know i always get a weapon on first week, but this game really loves me
alpine wraith
big
night rampart
you want forge for any add fight
it was more about wether i can be happy about pacemaker as my only worthwhile vault item or not, but doesnt look like it
stiff remnant
do you guys always listen to sims for gems? it keeps telling me to gem haste/vers gems
stiff remnant
what do you usually gem? if not a big dif
stiff remnant
that makes sense
clever delta
Did we see what spec is last boss
tepid trellis
they went dark
tepid trellis
pretty normal pace
haughty mural
Okay - doesn’t felt like it
But time is flying last couple of weeks anyway
plucky parrot
will be a fast tier if dimensius falls over as quick as gally did
hollow spear
I guess it depends on how long they take for dimensius
plucky parrot
but surely not
plucky parrot
it's varied a few tiers
but I think the average race length is around 11ish days
assuming appropriate tuning
cosmic fossil
Any idea for best trinket combo for m+?
runic trail
pretty normal pace
It feels faster than undermine but undermine had the stix wall for a bit
plucky parrot
yep^
entirely depends on dimensius tuning
but assuming ansurek level or slightly easier it's a pretty standard race
iirc
haughty mural
Probably just mythic hands 
vestal escarp
😩😩😩 i was hoping in an antenna ngl
chrome palm
😩😩😩 i was hoping in an antenna ngl
Greedy
vestal escarp
i deserve it 
chrome palm
Myth hands is good and you also got myth neck with amazing stats
torn storm
If I don't have forge should I just farm a priority trinket for double on use?
clever delta
If dimensius die tommorow me sad
vestal escarp
bis neck for sub is crafted
vestal escarp
bruh
chrome palm
If I don't have forge should I just farm a priority trinket for double on use?
Priory trinket is really bad
tribal blade
it'll be +3 ivls over crafted neck anyways right
vestal escarp
a crafted piece is a bis contenter
even if bis are not set in stone
i can get a bis or close to bis neck with a finger snap
jesus chat
steel zinc
hey they you do you and then dont ask
tribal blade
was goremaws ever a really exciting button to press
during legion more so yes
maiden oar
i see
chrome palm
Death from above was the big button back then though
vestal escarp
i remember goremaw being a downtime filler in legion
chrome palm
Yeah I don’t think you really played around goremaws like crazy
vestal escarp
just pressed on cd, even not holding before vanish cds
steel zinc
was goremaws ever a really exciting button to press
in legion more or less, but was one of the most underwelming to press in legion
chrome palm
Not in the way you did with dfa
steel zinc
dfa best spell
maiden oar
oh ok
chrome palm
Dfa was buffed by shuriken combo so you would storm, dfa, and then dance when you landed because there was a delay before it hit
I don’t remember the exact sequence
chrome palm
Yeah
maiden oar
grr
maiden oar
oh neat
chrome palm
Yeah it made sub the best funnel in the game bar none
maiden oar
robbed by sin rogue
chrome palm
There was one fight in the first raid of bfa where you would bring any alt rat sub rogue in in favor of anyone else because combo was so strong
So blizzard responded by removing combo and basically sub has had weird aoe since then
sullen hare
There was a while where it was just black powder spam too
maiden oar
that is so sad
chrome palm
Powder was only introduced in shadowlands
rocky ocean
Buff black powder.
maiden oar
Powder was only introduced in shadowlands
did we have an aoe spender before that
or did you spend cp on eviscerate in dungeons
tribal blade
There was one fight in the first raid of bfa where you would bring any alt rat s...
we don't talk about the zul incident
chrome palm
You would send eviscerate buffed by combo
chrome palm
You were the prio guy
maiden oar
its cool to be the prio guy
chrome palm
I stopped playing at the start of bfa but my understanding is sub was basically unplayable in m+
Because there was no combo and no powder until shadowlands
Sub got its funnel back in shadowlands though when flagellation used to actually do significant damage
maiden oar
oh that sucks
i hope sub in midnigyht is the best iteration of sub there ever was
although i like this version of sub so id be fine if its like this too
tight sparrow
crafted weapon 1st week. 2nd we craft wrist right?
maiden oar
i did that
but im planning on swapping between specs in raid so i want ascension + writhing
tight sparrow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
maiden oar
if you want 2x lens then it could change your circumstances
rapid forum
crafted weapon 1st week. 2nd we craft wrist right?
It's flexible ye
If you giga sweaty can swap between writhing and kens crafts depending on if you play sub/outlaw or sin
But I wouldn't use gildeds
Only your free hero crest from story
tight sparrow
what am i going to do with gilded anyway right now?
hollow spear
I dropped hc wrists with bis stats and a socket, now I'm hesitant
tight sparrow
ive 4x hc pieces crafted weapon hc prism mythic pacemaker
rapid forum
Then it might be worth saving them until you get myth items to spend them on
Or do the math
maiden oar
i sent gilded on crafted dagger and maxing a trinket from vault
and im saving the rest for either vault next week or a drop from taz hm or something if im lucky
or loomithar dagger if i hit
im just following this though
not thinking for myself one bit
hollow spear
Couldn't catch me thinking in 2025
clever delta
!up
wicked joltBOT
maiden oar
oh i just realized perfecto robbed me of my heroic logs
i will never forgive him
what an evil guy
he is so good
i wonder how it is possible to become that good
violet gorge
which dagger do we craft
maiden oar
everforged stabber
i did crit/mast bc it simmed the best but should sim for sin + sub
storm cloak
yo does anyone have a temp fix for the cold blood / sectec macro
whenever i swap specs the macro doesnt work unless i restart my game. I noticed that the spell IDs are different. It seems like u cant do like /cast spellID 
and if this has been talked abt at some point, mb im in a bit of a rush
tight sparrow
when u have weapon + wrist
haughty mural
Just reload
maiden oar
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
tight sparrow
u cannot go 2x lens right?
storm cloak
Just reload
reload doesnt work
it does not ?
clever delta
Reload dosnt work gotta relog
autumn canopy
do we use coup proc on aoe ?
haughty mural
It really is
limpid sage
my dimensius parses got boosted quite significantly. Anyone know why?
maiden oar
they cut out downtime
maiden oar
and they also did some stuff with the platform adds
limpid sage
ahhh it's getting adjusted later it seems
vale pine
u cannot go 2x lens right?
why not?
vale pine
I suddenly have a 100 parse on normal lol
nice
placid crown
hey, what is the command to see the best sim ?
vale pine
wcl sometimes does filtering, so possible that they filtered out add damage?
vale pine
hey, what is the command to see the best sim ?
!sheet or !fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
placid crown
ah yes, tyvm
limpid sage
wcl sometimes does filtering, so possible that they filtered out add damage?
only temporary D:
limpid sage
Rekt bp spam abusers
I feel like they should've excluded Living Mass entirely though
this will just end up being super frustrating
crystal oasis
Is anyone else experiencing a bug where CB + ST macro'd together wont trigger CB
hollow spear
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
hollow spear
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
crystal oasis
That makes sense, I'll keep that in mind
tacit coral
hey guys my sim is saying cursed stone idol is better for both outlaw and sub, is it sim bait or should i take it? i got both lily and cursed stone idol in vault
clever delta
Damn there is so little sub parses again
Even on bosses where it's better than assa
"Better"
rapid forum
Ye outlaw and sub always are barely played compared to sin
gaunt bluff
would u guys lose the 1% for avoidance on dagger?
tribal blade
Ye outlaw and sub always are barely played compared to sin
kinda makes sense, you use almost no brain power whatsoever playing FB sin
and sub is more sweaty
tribal blade
would u guys lose the 1% for avoidance on dagger?
nah 1% is a decent amount
no worth a slight amount of avoidance
proper latch
Started playing S3 yesterday, timed one +10 before the sleep and got dagger in the vault today
maiden oar
kinda makes sense, you use almost no brain power whatsoever playing FB sin
i feel like im missing something obvious on fb sin it cannot all be variance
im sure there is some way to consistently do more damage that im unaware of
tribal blade
i feel like im missing something obvious on fb sin it cannot all be variance
i think the variance on FB sin is really that big
maiden oar
there is no way
tribal blade
but i haven't looked into it deeply
might be a stats thing
i ran FB today with a gearset having much less haste and it felt like absolute dogshit
maiden oar
sometimes i am going insane and sometimes its not that impressive and i dont feel like its any different as im pressing the buttons
oh ok i dont have very much haste
maiden oar
but i see some people do alot on fb sin always so they probably know something i dont
and it isnt variance
vale pine
Started playing S3 yesterday, timed one +10 before the sleep and got dagger in t...
nice, gz
maiden oar
but i dont know what they know
tribal blade
i'm not 100% sure, i'm prob making mistakes too because i just started playing FB sin this season
maiden oar
i feel that way about bleed build too i can do alot but i cannot do consistent 10m overall like some people
tribal blade
but the interesting thing is when i was looking at logs
maiden oar
there has to be some sort of secret
tribal blade
there would be the "normal" high end FB dps, and then REALLY off the charts high end variance
maiden oar
i see
tribal blade
i'm sure we'll learn more the more we play it 😉
tribal blade
ok what if i want to play it as little as possible and play sub more
whispyr did drop this a few days ago
he goes over FB stuff
crystal oasis
FB variance is pretty normal for most specs. I think trinkets make a huge difference early tier and lining up netherprism can make a big difference on some fights
tribal blade
mm he did say here you want to use netherprism every 3 mins with vanish instead of every 1.5 if i'm not mistaken
crystal oasis
Yeah correct
tribal blade
ok damn i have to change up my DM macro
maiden oar
yeah im doing that
im also shifting vanish into execute if kt allows
and trying to manipulate prism similarly
but im sure im like maybe losing some value from envenoms or something more basic
i did notice at first i was trying to whack kingsbane instantly off cd and it wouldnt press cold blood at the same time bc cb didnt come back up yet
but i fixed that
analog hearth
is there a reason the sim doesnt vanish to get pre med shuriken storm for the double coup outside of blades
wouldnt this conserve unseen blade uses
tight sparrow
isnt it better to craft hc wrist with not wasting gilded so you can spend gilded for mythic gear?
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
rapid forum
isnt it better to craft hc wrist with not wasting gilded so you can spend gilded...
Yes
karmic harbor
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
crystal oasis
No that bug is still occuring
rapid forum
Use your free hero crest for wrists
Spend gildeds on mainhand weapon, trinket, big mainstat pieces
In that order
rapid forum
I think so yes
tight sparrow
i can recatft this later for max ilevel right
hollow spear
think so
rapid forum
i can recatft this later for max ilevel right
Yes you can
Can also changes stats/embellishment whenever you want
hollow spear
How much is a socket worth in absolute dps?
sacred magnet
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
slate marlin
How many ruptures are you guys spreading on a 1st pull?
Im spreading a couple with storm to get some fw up
rapid forum
You can also recraft your s2 bracers with new spark/crest to keep your socket
tight sparrow
your meme guy allstar #2 place 😄 hc subtlety logs KEKW
wheat edge
mm he did say here you want to use netherprism every 3 mins with vanish instead ...
also if you are macroing prism to vanish remember to vanish before deathmarking
tribal blade
also if you are macroing prism to vanish remember to vanish before deathmarking ...
true1 tyty
wheat edge
yeah
scarlet radish
managed it
hollow spear
These vault sims have turned into a PhD
Next week we'll get the next cata, correct?
next valley
Spend gildeds on mainhand weapon, trinket, big mainstat pieces
If I don't have a good mainhand wep should I use my guilded to make one or is that what you already mean?
gilded*
we only have 1 spark right
hollow spear
We have two
short radish
bros its so jover for me, my parses are going to be ruined with these trinkets
next valley
ah mb then
hollow spear
If you haven't sent last week, that is
hollow spear
bros its so jover for me, my parses are going to be ruined with these trinkets
Is that after HC and NM?
short radish
rapid forum
If I don't have a good mainhand wep should I use my guilded to make one or is th...
Ye id advise to get a weapon
blissful yacht
guys? in WoWhead guide there is trinket Cursed-Stone Idol in the worst tier....but in bloodmallet it sims in TOP 5 trinkets, anybody has eperience with it?
dusky nymph
!gear
wicked joltBOT
hollow spear
guys? in WoWhead guide there is trinket Cursed-Stone Idol in the worst tier....b...
it's ass
short radish
guys? in WoWhead guide there is trinket Cursed-Stone Idol in the worst tier....b...
pressing flag -> rupture -> backstab -> WOOO CHANNEL FOR 1 SECOND
is not fun gameplay
blissful yacht
prism is very strong
which one it is?
dusk stone
unyielding netherprism from fractilus
trinket that essentially allows you to store agi and spend it and its very modal
vale pine
^ best trinket for us
dusk stone
you can send it with 1:30's or hold for longer and its like 60k agi at that point
vale pine
you send it every 90 sec
first cooldowns don't rly need to because you don't have many stacks
dusk stone
i heard people holding for 18 stacks
blissful yacht
so far i was too unlucky for any decent trink, hopefully this raid will drop me something
tepid trellis
in keys you can do that depending on pulls
dusk stone
the neat thing with prism is in long opener pulls you can get 2-3 stacks
so its as good as lily kinda almost
tepid trellis
@hazy breach hit 58mil AoE burst today
hazy breach
tepid trellis
18 stack prism with coup + disorienting rdy on pull
dusk stone
is there any shenanigans we can do with dummies or anything
bond use to go into brew with stacks of stuff
on shaman
tepid trellis
<:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
hazy breach
Just insanely prestacked stuff, nothing in combat
frigid prawn
mythic trinket lily or champ track tier set piece? 🙁
blissful yacht
lily
tepid trellis
surely iget forge trinket in nm/hc clear today
so i can do some funny 2x on-use shenans in my +10s
hazy breach
So for hardmode you can prestack 14 sht, 7 superchargers, disorienting strikes, 4 coup charges and 18 stacks of prism
If you really want to
With that sub does some burst
dusk stone
is there diminishing returns with agi and the 60k of it we get extra
autumn flame
Did that for hard mode dragon boss
raw violet
Hi, I know this is not rogue related, but since this is the only wow discord I have (except my guild), I thought about giving this question a try.... Does anybody know how the keystone deserter debuff works with offline players? I just had an unfortunate run with somebody going offline at start and forcing abandon vote....
short radish
<:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
bro you have it
the bingus has it
everyone has it
except me
dire pulsar
HoA 7 is that good ?
short radish
sure
vale pine
Did that for hard mode dragon boss<:peepoBlush:818323879315505233>
hardmode felt way harder than in shadowlands
funny
short radish
yeah 10 streets is so chill now
vale pine
echo dome is chill
dusk stone
HoA 7 is that good ?
your parse you mean?
glacial stirrup
can some one help me with this - at this point when your shadow blades are coming off soon do you hold dance and symbols ?
dusk stone
is there a WA for prism yet
short radish
dont press dance/symbols when flag is around 20-25 seconds
vale pine
can some one help me with this - at this point when your shadow blades are comin...
you would not send dance here
glacial stirrup
dont press dance/symbols when flag is around 20-25 seconds
Understood
vale pine
!loot
wicked joltBOT
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
glacial stirrup
/castsequence reset=3/target Symbols of Death, null this does the same thing ?
glacial stirrup
thank you
glacial stirrup
#showtooltip symbols of death
/castsequence reset=3/target Symbols of Death, null
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Backstab
I use this
vale pine
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
vale pine
you can macro dance and symbols, but typically don't want to
glacial stirrup
understood
vale pine
because your 2nd symbols cast in dance might be delayed
dusk stone
you can bind symbols and dance together, but you will also needs 2 more keybinds for them seperate
glacial stirrup
because your 2nd symbols cast in dance might be delayed
yes this is what was happening
vale pine
* in the 2nd dance during shadow blades
dusk stone
i use mouse macro for symbols and dance but have 1 and 2 bound for pressing them alone for different reasons
vale pine
👍
glacial stirrup
but macriong dance and back stab is okay ?
dusk stone
doesnt sound ok
you use backstack outside of dance a lot
are you saving 2 dances and 2 symbols for flag?
glacial stirrup
yeah thats on a key bind but for the macabre stack
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
vale pine
^ you can use a macro like this, it is probably the best trade off
you usually dance on low combo points
but can also dance with high points
so macroing backstab and dance without a conditional like the above
means you can't dance-finish
but are limited to dance-backstab
the above does:
- first key press ---- dance
- second key press ---- backstab
glacial stirrup
this is awesome! thank you so much !
rapid forum
I like just having an opener macro, which does dance symbol backstab followed by another macro for blades pot trinket sec tech
Saves a lot of presses for whenever blades is rdy
dusk stone
im running into an issue myself
rapid forum
And in between just separate buttons
dusk stone
i have shadow blades, lilly and potion all bound to a mouse button which is fine
rapid forum
Might remove pot from if saving for later in the fight
dusk stone
except now i also have prism
dusk stone
kinda
but i also want to save stacks for phases in raid now
like 18 saladman or something
my macro works but not if i want to hold it
vale pine
thats true
if you want to be optimal always, you might want to use a seperate eky
*key
dusk stone
subs better for 5 and 7 and some here were saying 8 sin is better for the others. sub is generally middle of the pack tho
dusk stone
thanks, thats a great idea
i wish rtwf was not as bad for viewing as it is
i mean no disrespect to anyone involved but its really awful for a really cool thing
just the format of having to do splits for 4 days kinda ruins something you've spent time anticipating. its like a sport, but if the sport before the superbowl had you filming them in the gym or something for a week
rapid forum
There is one easy solution imo
rocky ocean
just the format of having to do splits for 4 days kinda ruins something you've s...
Give us tournament realms and a prize pool
zealous flint
Give us tournament realms and a prize pool
this!
rocky ocean
That will attract some real competition
dusk stone
do you think you'd lose interest in progression raiding if it wasnt live though
rapid forum
Make invitations based on HoF status
open depot
subs better for 5 and 7 and some here were saying 8 sin is better for the others...
Sub for Araz, DH and Saladking?
Soulweaver is kinda good for both.
Then Fatebound kinda steamroll on the others
rapid forum
Sub in aoe/cleave>sin, sin in those scenarios is cancer to play 💀
Id rather chop my hand off
hollow spear
apparently echo dropped their sub rogue
How would you know? They aren't even on it yet 😅
Or did they do that yesterday? Could swear I saw perfecto until the end.
rapid forum
Also I don't think they were only gaming sub no?
I think the rogue were swapping between sin and sub
Oh or maybe that was only liquid
hollow spear
No, Salad
hollow spear
Seems like Method and Echo also juice sub with aug
rapid forum
CDs align very good and the adds are great outside dance to storm into evis
rapid forum
Seems like Method and Echo also juice sub with aug
I never played with an Aug, how do their buffs work
Is it just generic % increase or what do they give?
dusk stone
How would you know? They aren't even on it yet 😅
i meant for saladman
but what i saw was a split apparently
dusk stone
Sub for Araz, DH and Saladking?
Soulweaver is kinda good for both.
Then Fatebo...
araz, saladman and dimensius, forgive me its pretty late lol
it might be pretty decent for soulbinder tho idk
rapid forum
I think it's more chill to play atleast
I'd sub or outlaw over sin on soulbinder any time of the day
open depot
araz, saladman and dimensius, forgive me its pretty late lol
Why for Dimensius?
Sin cds align way better with 4p
rapid forum
Why for Dimensius?
Downtime and cds
dusk stone
i said maybe for dimensius and that's what others have speculated. probably platforms and downtime
dire pulsar
your parse you mean?
imean the order of spell
open depot
Platform is pretty much ST atleast for HC, we can all speculate mythic ofc
But for HC sin is deffo the play
dusk stone
burst
rapid forum
Sin cds align way better with 4p
Yes but subs CDs come off a few seconds later but are way more impactful than sin, which is why I think ppl suspected sub to also crank on that fight
And you can funnel from adds
dusk stone
imean the order of spell
are you asking us if that was a good parse
dire pulsar
are you asking us if that was a good parse
yes
i start and was never used BP before, now with the WA i use it more but dunno if good enough
dusk stone
why not just post the number
hollow spear
Sin cds align way better with 4p
Wdym "better"? Sub also has 90s cooldowns
valid yoke
The shuriken storm before second coup - what do I do if that storm doesn't give me full cp? Do another or just slam coup anyway?
haughty mural
And you can funnel from adds
That’s not particularly a thing for sub
rapid forum
It is outside dance
You storm into evis which is way better than spamming backstab for 500 damage
Or am I mistaken? That's what I always assumed atleast
haughty mural
Wouldn’t call that great funne
rapid forum
Because it should lead to more cdr
haughty mural
But it is something I guess
rapid forum
More cdr>earlier dance again
haughty mural
Yea that for sure
rapid forum
Wouldn’t call that great funne
I didn't say great
dusk stone
The shuriken storm before second coup - what do I do if that storm doesn't give ...
fairly sure i heard someone say 2cp coup is full combo points because of the bonus it gets
haughty mural
The shuriken storm before second coup - what do I do if that storm doesn't give ...
You only do that in blades so it gives full cp
valid yoke
You only do that in blades so it gives full cp
ah okay so otherwise you just slam strikes/backstabs
haughty mural
Strikes in dance storm outside(in aoe)
valid yoke
gotcha
dusk stone
yeah coup get 5 bonus combo points and you cant beyond the max aside supercharger afaik
2cp coup regardless would end up as 7
turbid apex
do i rush 2p now and potentially grief myself next week or do i take the wise and patient choice 🤔
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
short radish
m+
cosmic fossil
really dont know going with antena or prism or maybe doing raid first Sims make me confused
haughty mural
2cp coup regardless would end up as 7
Rule stands as in finish at 6+
Inside dance and outside of it
plush roost
really dont know going with antena or prism or maybe doing raid first Sims make ...
If you are raiding again probably wait, but prism is a slam dunk best trinket for sub rogue by a mile
tribal blade
myth HoC -> hero prism was something like +4-5% dps for me
plush roost
Your HoC simmed higher? No shot
tribal blade
Your HoC simmed higher? No shot
sorry that arrow was meant to mean HoC to prism haha
not the greater than sign
plush roost
Oh lol
tribal blade
there better
plush roost
Fixd
tribal blade
plush roost
Im still playing lily pacemaker
tribal blade
i have prism, so if you had lily+antenna you would be losing around 0.7% dps it seems
plush roost
The loot has not been nice to me
tribal blade
lily isn't that far behind it seems at least
plush roost
Yeah but its way more behind in m+
tribal blade
yeah the burst is kinda insane in keys
plush roost
With the nature of prism 18 stacks being like 8-10% ahead of lily on a big pull its just uncomparable
warm marlin
With the nature of prism 18 stacks being like 8-10% ahead of lily on a big pull ...
It is quite a bit more than that 
rich stump
do both coups deal 150% increase damage? 1st one? 2nd one?
tribal blade
i have prism and the soul hunter boots
plush roost
It is quite a bit more than that <:gladge:1005592644757487717>
Im coping here
limpid sage
704 equipped
can I see
tribal blade
i also got a 723 dagger this week in vault
limpid sage
just to see what slots might be diff
short radish
YEAH RET PALADINS REALLY NEEDED BUFFS
limpid sage
i also got a 723 dagger this week in vault
WHAT IS YOUR GEAR
tribal blade
short radish
fuck this dog shit company
limpid sage
YEAH RET PALADINS REALLY NEEDED BUFFS
nerf sub
tribal blade
sub is doing really well right now
i'm cranking in keys
the boss dmg sub can do too is absolutely disgusting
keen dome
disgusting like eating a giant tub of icecream
tribal blade
haha
keen dome
lol, your guilds name owns, Prophet
short radish
warm marlin
the boss dmg sub can do too is absolutely disgusting
I did 4.7 to mail man in a 2m30 yesterday (before prism)
cosmic fossil
so optimal usage of prism is on the second dance when flag stack ready too go?
tribal blade
lol, your guilds name owns, Prophet
haha ty 🙂
warm marlin
With affix tho
tribal blade
YEAH RET PALADINS REALLY NEEDED BUFFS
it's actually funny how blizz won't let ret not have super high throughput always
warm marlin
so optimal usage of prism is on the second dance when flag stack ready too go?
No no it lasts 20 seconds
short radish
yeah ikr
tribal blade
I did 4.7 to mail man in a 2m30 yesterday (before prism)
i can't remember what i did to him today, but it was a lot
last boss too i gapped the other 2 dps by quite a bit
warm marlin
Use with blades like normal, either every one or hold for every other blades to have more stacks
limpid sage
steel zinc
yo method is playing double sub rogue on nexus king
short radish
yo method is playing double sub rogue on nexus king
warm marlin
yo method is playing double sub rogue on nexus king
i feel like arcane is just better
steel zinc
i feel like arcane is just better
yes but no guild apart from rwf can provide 4 arcane mages
warm marlin
by being a 78s instead of a 90
warm marlin
for sure
steel zinc
so you will most likely see any guild with double rogue play double rogue on nexus king
keen dome
Normal was so funny today. Just absolutely bullying bosses until dimensius
bleak night
honestly i was kind of wondering why liquid didnt play double sub
tribal blade
our boy is going super hard
keen dome
hell yeah
bleak night
what a gamer
tribal blade
sub rogue good in keys and he's up there
warm marlin
honestly i was kind of wondering why liquid didnt play double sub
do they even have a second rogue
im pretty sure daizr plays outlaw only
steel zinc
honestly i was kind of wondering why liquid didnt play double sub
they dont
tribal blade
i think sub is better in M+ atm honestly
bleak night
yeah assa, sub, and feral all some of the best melee
steel zinc
I argue rogue is the best melee in the game rn
bleak night
rogue tier op
tribal blade
it's interesting how heroic sub is bottom half dps, and on mythic it's top half
pastel radish
LF old acrobatic strike
warm marlin
you still get to be the main character on many fights
tribal blade
yeah some of the timings on heroic have already been mega cursed
alpine wraith
we will be not as good but still kinda good
also yea
soulbinder and forge on hc are a bit diff
tribal blade
we recleared heroic saladman today and he literally died right as my flag+blades came off cd
massive rip
i already told my RL i'll be going sub for some fights 😉
hazy breach
tribal blade
i've been waking up super early at like 5am to do keys with guildies so i've been kinda sleep deprived
so my performance in raid is kinda funny
absolutely demolishing some raid fights and forgetting who i am and which boss we're even on on some
today i legit looked up cd timings for araz by looking at soulbinder on lorrgs
no joke
needless to say i did not parse
short radish
bleak night
tribal blade
i felt pretty stupid after
tribal blade
haha yeah i'm not super concerned
i used to be a massive parse monkey, not so much anymore
short radish
<:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
add me to this
haughty mural
I need to be this tier to probably get into a new guild
warm marlin
a collage of who no one will be left
keen dome
We need the Narco's meme but for DS
tribal blade
also how tf do u sim 150k over me cuh
i have no idea
warm marlin
i lack the good shoes but theyre only like 60k
tribal blade
hrm raidbots didn't save my latest sims weird
haughty mural
Sussy
tribal blade
weird i resimmed and it's this now
warm marlin
tribal blade
maybe because i just swapped it from weekly to latest?
tepid canyon
How do we use prism with lily? Lily on sb and then prism on dance or sectec?
tribal blade
last one was weekly
keen dome
weird i resimmed and it's this now
nice photo, vapelord
dusk stone
Rule stands as in finish at 6+
this isn't true though? like if you coup at 7 cp vs couping at 2 cp its the same damage
you cant coup at 12
dusk stone
swear i heard someone say otherwise
warm marlin
put sectec on cd and press coup and see how much cdr u get
limpid sage
and 15 with supercharger
16 even
hazy breach
Using coup at 1 or 2 cp is fine since its effectively a 6-7 cp finisher
12+3=15, not 16
limpid sage
if you have a global in between
dusk stone
is there any reason you'd coup at 6 and 7 and not 12?
hazy breach
Well it takes time to build more cp and your 4p might run out
dusk stone
i see
atomic girder
is it worth to play forge + prism over a passive like sacbrood? sac brood sims like 98k ahead then double on use. Or is it situational
crystal bone
how long do we get to keep coup buff?
the coup offered by 4 pc tierset yea 5 sec
the first coup idk how long it lasts
never really checked
crystal bone
is it worth to play forge + prism over a passive like sacbrood? sac brood sims l...
i'd use whatever sims well, sac + prism sounds good
warm marlin
the first coup idk how long it lasts
infinite
crystal bone
im using crystal + prism atm
vale pine
^
warm marlin
no timer on escalating blade
atomic girder
got u ty
hazy breach
Prism stacks are infinite too
warm marlin
and sht!
shrewd ember
"Use Shuriken Storm between the regular and 4-Set Bonus casts of Coup de Grace."
Can someone explain this to me like im 5
hazy breach
Probably ye
hazy breach
"Use Shuriken Storm between the regular and 4-Set Bonus casts of Coup de Grace...
If you have the 4p and blades up, press storm instead of strike
dusk stone
depends how familiar with sub you are
tribal blade
Would you all say sub is easier than Assas in M+?
i would say base sin is easier, but DS makes it much worse
crystal bone
^
swift tinsel
Sin is busier in aoe for sure
idle parrot
I hate DS sin
shrewd ember
If you have the 4p and blades up, press storm instead of strike
strike fucks up the 4p somehow?
crystal bone
can't tell u how good it feels to not need to track the mark lmao
hazy breach
You cant build to your next coup with 4p active
tribal blade
DS just adds so much headache
hazy breach
So if you strike you will use one of your unseen blades
and not get a coup stack for it
shrewd ember
Got it, thanks bud
dusk stone
is the sigil trinket any good
crystal bone
MariusC
warm marlin
echo got 2 M netherprisms 
dusk stone
sounds like its a specific use case kinda thing?
crystal bone
if u were curious 😄
warm marlin
perfecto about to go crazy on nexus
atomic girder
prism you just use at every set of blades/flag? or do you skip a set to get max stacks
hazy breach
Curious why they havent used autumn on rogues and why they only played one, seems insane to have one for each side
hazy breach
prism you just use at every set of blades/flag? or do you skip a set to get max ...
Whatever you need. If theres a damage amp or a big pull you would rather have 18 stacks for that then 9+9
warm marlin
Curious why they havent used autumn on rogues and why they only played one, seem...
we talked about it a bit in here recently but for liquid at least I don't think they even have another rogue player ready 
hazy breach
Does their other rouge (raiz?) only play outlaw?
alpine wraith
XD cant believe it
hazy breach
Ic
warm marlin
also arcane naturally lines up without autumn
shrewd ember
if u were curious 😄
Good to know. So good to learn, not gonna kill me if i fuck it up
warm marlin
is a bit better maybe
violet flare
Can someone explain why my Secret Technique/Cold Blood Makro isn't Working?
#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
hazy breach
I mean it lines up alright anyway
hazy breach
Can someone explain why my Secret Technique/Cold Blood Makro isn't Working?
#sh...
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
hazy breach
Flag got sent when damage amp has 20s left
dusk stone
is there any use case for sigil of the cosmic hunt?
hazy breach
So its not horrendous
dusk stone
its s- trinket but i never hear about it
hazy breach
But it would be better if you could triple dance it