subtlety

[warm marlin]

[left ledge]

well last tier was an exception

with how garbage hoc was

they had to nuke transmitter twice

and mythic hoc was still 1%

[lilac stag]

dbl on use time

[main ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[viral phoenix]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[alpine wraith]

pvp trink still quite fine now

better than lilly depending on gear

[lilac stag]

free from lfr kekw

[alpine wraith]

damn true next week it is lfr prism

xd

likely a 691 better than anything uh

[hollow spear]

I outsim the rest of our guild on prism by a country mile

[alpine wraith]

well that did not stop them from giving it to a hunter

[hollow spear]

Just has to drop

[alpine wraith]

that too

[hollow spear]

It's bis for mm I think

[lilac stag]

when the trinket sims best for you but the hunter overall sim is 400k ahead

[alpine wraith]

only 400k you have great gear

[lilac stag]

nah i'm sitting in 2pc

[hollow spear]

Idk, I was talking absolute numbers

I get like 60k more than our mm

[lilac stag]

min was 120k ahead of the mm

[alpine wraith]

this does better than pvp trink+passive for the most part

but also a funny thing is my alt got hero legs and also from delves the void trink XD

[astral axle]

bro this CB bug is

[alpine wraith]

at least next week i can buy that one

have to relog

[astral axle]

gonna make me crazy

[keen dome]

For some reason (that I think I can figure out) the pvp trink sims 50k moore than lily for me.

[alpine wraith]

punished by playing assa

[hollow spear]

Need a new keybind for my trinket tho

I'm running out of options

[keen dome]

How are you handling the double on use, Hacha? Which do you use first, etc

[alpine wraith]

yea pvp trink is better than lilly for a lot of gearsets

first lilly then pvp trink

[keen dome]

Makes sense

Lily for major CD's, PvP trinket for between coup spam?

[alpine wraith]

should be better the more gear you have as you get more power on the midway dances

[keen dome]

Or, wait, do you have PvP ready for the second sectec?

[alpine wraith]

you can use it on the third dance on pull

or wait a bit and double dance on it

it gets both sec techs

on m+ usually i use it on the third dance to get it on cd fast

then depending how it goes i pop it on a first dance or as i tornado then enter dance

[keen dome]

Makes sense

I might give it a go but I'm also being lazy so maybe I just run lily

[alpine wraith]

i found it is quite decent but nothing crazy

my good passive trinket is crystal so that one can be more rng

proccing haste

kek

[mild carbon]

anyway to change stats?

[alpine wraith]

and pacemaker is not the best

nope shoulders suck for us

but 2p is 2p

[viral phoenix]

for the shuriken storm optimization is that always in between coup when you need to build? If you have LE's UB tracker and no guaranteed stacks are active do you still storm in case you get the untrackable proc?

[alpine wraith]

it is very unlikely you dont have unseens

as you sec tech before anything on dance

so you are messing up somewhere else

[viral phoenix]

nah it def happens I think, like sometimes coup happens then second dance and you get to 3 stacks after sec tech

[summer lynx]

With 4pc do you delay ST if it pros during shadow dance or?

[viral phoenix]

and then coup next strike and dont have guaranteed

[alpine wraith]

you dont delay sec tech

you just coup then sec then coup

[chrome palm]

just dont spec off sub

[summer lynx]

ty

[astral axle]

showin my ass fr

[crystal bone]

perfecto blastin nexus kinng

[stoic reef]

Is it really worth to bring forge and prism for m+

Or is it better to bring antena

[alpine wraith]

it is better if you know what you are doing

[hollow matrix]

Hello guys, do you know what is wrong with my macro pls (translated is Symboles of death and Shadow Dance)

[alpine wraith]

if dou doubt

play antenna

[stoic reef]

K

Ty

[viral phoenix]

so any input on how the optimization works functionally? Are you always storming in between coup's (in blades) if you dont get the refund? regardless of if UB stuff is guaranteed cause the chance we munch is too big of a deal?

Also I feel like openers a great example of getting to coup with out any guaranteed stacks, you get 1 guaranteed auto, 2 from sec tech, and 1 that can proc from tierset then you're sitting at coup with no guaranteed UB stacks

[alpine wraith]

you just strike then

there is not much mistery

[warm marlin]

you can storm between sectec and coup knowing you have the guaranteed blade (and skip the one between coups since you already got your storm danse stack)

it is very small though

basically margin of error

[viral phoenix]

That's interesting

[mild carbon]

is this any better than my pvp trinkets?

[alpine wraith]

not a bad passive one but likely you can get better easily

[viral phoenix]

in m+ are you guys slamming tornado off cd or is there any consideration of holding it for beginning of next pack rupture spreading? like say holding it for 10-15 seconds

also in aoe outside of dance do we prefer eviscerate to BP? if Flawless is up we always evisc over BP outside of cds? Why?

[swift tinsel]

if you don't have flawless form up evisc won't cleave in aoe so you'd cast bp if you don't have the buff

else you BP in 4+ targets and only cast evisc if its coup de grace

[viral phoenix]

I'm confused so at 3+ targets if you have FF evisc's active or you can choose to spend with BP, what are you pressing? assuming FW on 3 target or whatever for higher.

it reads like you're slamming evisc outside of dance perma if FF is up, is that what we do?

[swift tinsel]

if you have FW on 3 targets you BP

if you don't have FW on 3 targets but are fighting 4+ you BP

if you have coup de grace ready and Flawless Form is up, you evisc

[viral phoenix]

ok that makes complete sense, thank you

so the line "use black powder only if flawless form is NOT up with 3+ targets" is actually referring to 3 target no FW spread no FF no coup active?

[swift tinsel]

the BP threshold is 3 FW or 4 targets, but its easier to recommend 4 targets in general bc it doesn't involve any debuff tracking and is an easier heuristic when in combat

[viral phoenix]

Yeah for sure, I was just confused at the phrasing and wanted clarification, ty

like shindigg's video mentioned evisc being our primary aoe finisher and only using BP if FF is not present which led me to check the wowhead

[flat pecan]

So, being offered a hero Lily trinket, it's an ilvl upgrade, but is the WoWhead BIS trinket list just out of date or what? I currently have Unyielding Netherprism and Screams of a Forgotten Sky--the latter of which is considered on wowhead our worst trinket, and yet, all my simming says these two trinkets are my BIS by a long shot? Does the Forgotten Sky trinket just happen to sim well but not perform well in reality or what? I'm confused why a Lily 13 ilvls higher than it is still a DPS loss compared to Screams

[stiff remnant]

may I post vault ss here for opinon?

[void hound]

do you get loomithar in your vault pool when you kill soulbinder?

[small prism]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fringe palm]

@leaden prairie told you 🙂

[viral phoenix]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vestal escarp]

NA vaults?

[leaden prairie]

ye

[stone hound]

Everything has to be exactly like the ability spelling, including capitalized letters.

[leaden prairie]

make sense

[alpine wraith]

what did you tell!

[alpine wraith]

it seems so

some 2/m for loomitar loot

[thorn karma]

Any idea what I should take from Vault?
I care more about M+ than raiding

Maybe just a Myth item to catalyst later? Or should I be taking one of the trinkets?

[sudden stirrup]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[slate lantern]

MY B THOUGHT THIS WAS OUTLAW

ignore

[hollow spear]

Off with you!

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-running-away-running-escape-animal-gif-14844387

[alpine wraith]

AAAAAAAAAAAA

hey outlaw can be good

look at soulhunters it is better than sub!

[open depot]

Why is my Cold / Sec Tec macro not working?

[thorn karma]

relog, there's a bug 🙁

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

[open depot]

Doesn't activate cold blood ):

oh neato

thanks

[alpine wraith]

sub is sad you betrayed it for fb assa

understandable

i would disable cb too

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/dokibird-huh-rejected-live-gif-3859302371757875364

[steel sierra]

Neck still seem like a fairly safe choice for second craft?

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-what-the-fuck-the-fuck-is-this-wth-gif-17571836

[hollow spear]

I've dropped a hero bracer + socket, was kinda planning to craft that

really threw a spanner in the works

[chrome palm]

70 mil cdg daugher or 74 mil secret technique son

we love big momma

wait there is a baby secret technique hiding in there its only 65m

imagine if 4pc wasnt bugged

[flat pecan]

Anyone know why, if Screams of a Forgotten Sky is such a bad trinket, its simming as my first/second best trinket? By kind of a lot? Like what's bad about this thing?

[swift tinsel]

that would depend on what trinkets you have

[flat pecan]

Netherprism / Screams

I'm being offered a large ilvl upgrade Lily and raidbots is still simming Netherprism / screams above it in either slot

my netherprism/screams are 691, lily is 701, so even 10 ilvls higher its not beating either one

and that surprised me considering the wowhead BIS trinket list

[swift tinsel]

link sim

[flat pecan]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6EQyfXTGZjk1vzCA5N8omR

like am I doin somethin wrong?

[alpine wraith]

it is very good after buffs

just most trinket lists assume M ilvl

and gl getting it from dimensius mythic

[swift tinsel]

ye it was pretty strong before buffs

[plush roost]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[flat pecan]

ah ok was the guide written before buffs maybe? Or does it really take rarity / difficulty to get into account? Because it lists Screams as straight up bottom tier terrible and everything I'm seeing says thats not the case

[swift tinsel]

bis lists should be taken with a grain of salt

and its best to sim yourself because it shows them in the context of your own gear

[flat pecan]

yea

[alpine wraith]

yea also getting mythic forge and prism

is quite a tall task

[swift tinsel]

just had this same conversation in guild discord with someone surprised the mailbox trinket was simming so high but it was against a 671 HoC as a bm hunter

[alpine wraith]

i would not get screams from vault tho

it will drop eventually from the boss

and m+ trinks are quite decent at hero ilvl

[flat pecan]

oh I already have it, I was expecting Lily to substantially beat it though and its not is what I was confused about

[swift tinsel]

and that mail trinket was listed as dumpster tier in their tier list

[flat pecan]

funky

[swift tinsel]

nah lily is okay but not great

usually a stepping-stone trinket to prism

[flat pecan]

I got super lucky then 😆

[swift tinsel]

yeah prism will only get replaced with better prism lol

[alpine wraith]

yea

kinda transmitter situation

[flat pecan]

got screams from the weekly champ quest, got netherprism uncontested, maybe its just a really good sub trinket and not great for other people but zero other people wanted it 😆

aight ty all

[crystal bone]

so with prism, we don't macro, and we use it on 2nd set of cd's, and then every set following?

[serene notch]

Picking a champ piece when you have myth track options seems awful, but completing 4 set is just so powerful….

[crystal bone]

or we can macro, it just doesnt do anything for first set

[indigo steppe]

I've been macroing

[warm marlin]

using it on cd and holding for 3mins is very close

[indigo steppe]

but on H nexus I waited on one to build up for burn phase

[warm marlin]

obviously better to hold if dmg amp or adds or whatever

[pulsar hemlock]

Oh no

[indigo steppe]

I feel so geared right now I've never been this lucky after 1 week

[pulsar hemlock]

jfc, the belt rolled with speed and socket

[alpine wraith]

seems like a weapon angle

or belt if it has good stats

[crystal bone]

purpley mog detected

[clever delta]

!BUG

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[clever delta]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[hollow spear]

How cooked would it be to craft shoulders?

[clever delta]

How do i fix that CB bug when swapped from fatebound?

I try relog and did not work

[serene notch]

Feels good to be so lucky on weapon and neck?

And did not get saddled with having to keep a sub optimal shoulder for tier?

Seems like winning tbh

[alpine wraith]

should be fine but loom drops a good shoulder

i recommended ring if you didnt craft wep for next week

[hollow spear]

I will look into it

[alpine wraith]

just inc ase you get another good ring

you can slot it into there

[hollow spear]

But I am a bum and had the writhing embellishment on old boots

And now I got the soul hunter boots

suffering from success

[lucid jackal]

$Extremely?

[dense geode]

[swift tinsel]

that's almost an egregious amount of mastery lol

[chrome palm]

lmfao

[stiff yew]

goddamn

[swift tinsel]

jesus

[hollow plinth]

shoulda sold it

[dense geode]

cant

[alpine wraith]

BIG

[hollow plinth]

cant sell M boe?

[dense geode]

nah there like soulbound

[alpine wraith]

until week like 5 or 6

[dense geode]

on pickup

[hollow plinth]

wtf

[steel zinc]

any us mythic raider who killed just 2 mythic bosses if you get loot from loomithar?

[alpine wraith]

yes

might do a fast one about that

[gloomy slate]

m+ bis for sub right?

[alpine wraith]

not bad but depends on gear

lots of rings are close

[gloomy slate]

we just crafting bracer with embellish right?

[alpine wraith]

i will likely craft ring

you can still get a M wrist

[crystal bone]

I’ll also craft ring I think

Crit vers ring simming higher for me lol

[haughty rose]

how tf are people cranking 4m on loomi HC at 695. what do they know that i dont

[vale pine]

mastery vers is rly good, so ye

[gloomy slate]

i jst dont wanna pigeon hole myself into sub only since its only 30-40k for sin

fully upg

[gloomy slate]

why r we suddenly doing CB again as sub, did they fix something?>

thought in ptr we dropped cb

[vale pine]

wdym cb?

we always used cb on single target

tea in aoe

[open depot]

I am a bit confused. BP is always better than normal rotation on 4+ targets so like on Soulbinder and Forgeweaver we hit the BP if adds are up?

[alpine wraith]

it would be more damage yes

[open depot]

Tyty

[hazy breach]

[lilac stag]

nice. your feral will be quite happy

[hazy breach]

My feral died 4 times during taszavesh

So no chest for him

[lilac stag]

doh

[dusk stone]

is circes legitimately not working

its around 8k stat

a hero ring is simming for 90k more for me

[lilac stag]

that ring was done at 684

[alpine wraith]

yea a 691 beat it for me

[dusk stone]

but 90k?

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[dusk stone]

is that like bait or something myth pacemaker is 70k for me

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-9508832355999336631

[hazy breach]

They nerfed the fuck out of it with this patch

[dusk stone]

vers/mast ring is literally 400 more stat than circes so whats going on

[tropic pier]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

It should be significantly more than that

Are you looking at it ingame or on raidbots, because i think its missing the latest hotfixes on the raidbot (wowhead) site

[winter ice]

unethical vault today

[dusk stone]

i looked and counted the stat on the gems last night in game

[graceful osprey]

Anyone see the midnight trailer? Its over for us, it’s a paladin expansion

[manic island]

always was

looked pretty sick tho

i was kinda hoping they talked about other stuff

but i guess not

when is blizzcon

[runic trail]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-demon-hunter-specialization-revealed-embrace-the-void-with-devourer-378233

Its over

they get the void stuff

[hazy breach]

Idk when i check it has ~5.3k stats whereas a 701 ring has 8.8k

[manic island]

ngl i was hoping for an ethereal phaseblade class

[hazy breach]

So ye its not particularly close

[keen dome]

Well

@lilac stag

[manic island]

i swear belf better get more customizations now

[lilac stag]

one more spec for realz to ruin

[keen dome]

I can't believe it

[runic trail]

Its okay, we are still the OG purple class

[dusk stone]

thanks

i trust

is it ever ok to send ring craft?

[swift tinsel]

wait now that dh reveal does that mean realz will talk to us again

[lilac stag]

i hope not

[fringe palm]

hes busy now, new spec

[keen dome]

I'm sitting in my angry dome

[fringe palm]

cant wait for deathstalkers mark to stay the same for another expansion

[lilac stag]

i still love you friend

[keen dome]

ANGY. TANTRUM

[tight sparrow]

double on use sims work

working corrertly in M+ ?

d/slice?

[hazy breach]

SoonTM

[alpine wraith]

would need edited apl

[tight sparrow]

araz + prism

[alpine wraith]

for them to not krangle

[tight sparrow]

pretty stronk

[fallow nimbus]

Just wait for when they take our dance away because it's too purple and we can't have that with new purple spec

[runic trail]

Its fine, we just won't group with any devour DHs. Just pretend it doesn't exist

[haughty mural]

The really did it huh?

Missed it

[keen dome]

yep

[lilac stag]

i mean youre 100% leveling a VE DH in remix

[keen dome]

Absolutely

Called Adarus

[lilac stag]

i named my, shouldhavebeensub

[keen dome]

Hah

[lilac stag]

slowly getting there

not sure where there is yet lol

[swift tinsel]

valeera as new delve companion

catch me in delves 25/8

[haughty mural]

Whack

[void ocean]

any sims on 12.0 😄

[haughty mural]

Who asked for void dhs ?

[swift tinsel]

the whiners in fel hammer

[lilac stag]

i hope they make the new spec only momentum

so each one of their love/haters has a spec

remove it from havoc

[swift tinsel]

this would be a masterstroke

[lilac stag]

then buff the fuck out of the momentum version to troll

[haughty mural]

Mid range spec

[lilac stag]

I sacrificed everything

[haughty mural]

So there is hope for outlaw

[lilac stag]

gunslinger when

14.2.5

[haughty mural]

[surreal knoll]

Is running double on-use worth it for M+ if there is any slight downtime between packs? I have a lily and the ritual forge but I dont see it really being feasable to run both (it does SIM higher, but in application im not confident)

[lilac stag]

prism only

[tight sparrow]

10stack prism or double it and give it to the next person?

[lilac stag]

unless eleem found some new fun tech

[surreal knoll]

Oh word, lily sims higher for me. Thanks

[alpine wraith]

you can use double on use if you know what you are doing

if you have doubts just play on use and passive

[surreal knoll]

Yeah i dont want to deal with it for .3% more dps

[alpine wraith]

it is quite good mainly because how m+ works

[lilac stag]

it's nice being able to bank prism for 3 mins

i was messing with the lfr forge

[hazy breach]

Hardmode strat is to just hit dummies to make sure you have 18 stacks for all bosses

Shit takes forever

[alpine wraith]

yea prism takes it to the next lvl

but even lilly and pvp trink are doing fionre

[hazy breach]

18 prism, 14 sht, 4 coup, disorienting strikes, 7 superchargers

[alpine wraith]

dont forget 4 set

[lilac stag]

sadness assa fb still 300k ahead for me

[hazy breach]

The boss is not long for this world if a sub rogue rolls up with that setup

[jagged rover]

think almost our entire raid got an antenna in vault today

[hazy breach]

Bis setup for hardmode is just 3 sub rogues and the boss will die <30 seconds before they do mechanics

[lilac stag]

3 of ours did and i dont think one took it....

[fiery grove]

hey guys, any ideas on how to get fuus WA to show shadow technique stacks instead of flawless form stacks?

actually WA illiterate

[jagged rover]

went from half the raid needed it to 3 people on our wow audit

I snapped antenna after running sims, especially since it let me upgrade my other trinkets to 704

[lilac stag]

i would as well

@keen dome Players Will Save Thousands of Gold in Midnight with Free Transmogging so do I make money transmoging as a VE?

[lilac stag]

wrong channel

[jagged rover]

still need some drops to upgrade some slots. Been real hard to replace jastor

[alpine wraith]

time to get banished

[jagged rover]

tbf its same gear set for both specs 😛

[alpine wraith]

jastor gets replaced quite fast for sub

[lilac stag]

dont matter

[alpine wraith]

also likely pvp trink better than antena kekw

[jagged rover]

I miss the 133% mastery I had the other night

but at least now I can occasionally crit

[lilac stag]

for raid? did my cooking actually work?

[alpine wraith]

well on bosses you would play sub

but still i dont know really tried to make the apl use it like that

but as i dont ahve i cant get more data

i can say lilly and pvp better for m+ for me at least the diff was noticeable

across like 20 dungs

vs pvp and crystal

[jagged rover]

I wish I could auto swap my fiber when I change specs

[open coral]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[fickle mason]

!guide

[runic trail]

@keen dome

[keen dome]

It's fake, I think

Don't toy with me!!!

[runic trail]

shit

I'm trying to find the source

Okay its fake apparently. RIP

[spare oar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[turbid apex]

without 4p i shadowstrike in aoe to proc coup de grace right?

cant understand this passage right

[alpine wraith]

that is for st

[placid elk]

coup is proc from hidden blade and i changes eviscerate

[alpine wraith]

but also works for aoe

[turbid apex]

its in multi target rotation on wowhead

[alpine wraith]

you want to stab for DM

then storm in between coups to not waste unseens

then you strike

[vale pine]

Look, they introduced subtelty as a spec for a diffrent class:

[turbid apex]

DM?

[alpine wraith]

danse macabre

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/ugh-no-gif-23059222

[turbid apex]

oh yeah thats for my first dance gcd right, but then in aoe? i just storm?

[alpine wraith]

in aoe you also stab

[turbid apex]

or storm is to not waste unseen proc with 4p

[alpine wraith]

you storm in between coups because of new 4p if you have blades

or in aoe

[turbid apex]

yeah well i dont have 4p so

thats for another time

[alpine wraith]

if you just used sec tech

[turbid apex]

im sorry but im actually even more lost than before

[sick jackal]

Other purple spec

Time to reroll

[turbid apex]

even this is confusing

so i BS in aoe for form?

[swift tinsel]

@keen dome I seemed to have gotten your vault

[keen dome]

lmao

It has come to haunt you

[vale pine]

the easy version is:

• use strike as a combo point builder during dacne
• Use evis as a finisher
• if you have 4+ targets switch from evis to BP
• If you have the coup de grace proc (yoru evis changes icon and glows), use that even in aoe

[swift tinsel]

lucked into full hero track tier tho so its a good day

[vale pine]

oh

and always secret asap

so first finisher secret most of the time

[turbid apex]

yeah and storm is just 4p optimisation right? to keep unseen blade from procing or smthg?

[vale pine]

backstab is an optimization for overall output

[turbid apex]

yy for dance macabre

[vale pine]

storm is an optimization for the new 4p

[swift tinsel]

lol only 15% increase

we take this

[vale pine]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

^ because of... read explenation

[hollow spear]

is it a safe bet to yeet 30 gilded crests at a hc prism?

I am not going to kill it on mythic anytime soon

[hazy breach]

Yes

[plush roost]

Ye

[turbid apex]

okok tyty, and i storm outside of dance for CP right?

[vale pine]

with more targets, you do

if you only have one target, you use backstab

[plush roost]

Unless your gm wants u to send on agi pieces for prog or something maybe

But thats a sim angle

[turbid apex]

thanks a lot for your time 🙂

[hollow spear]

I simmed it vs a chest and a leg piece

[frank narwhal]

Anyone know a way for rogues to remove the root on the mail boss in hard mode Taza?

[hollow spear]

Outsimmed them

[frank narwhal]

Vanish works I know, but I didnt dare try in case it auto dropped the package

[spice matrix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

Sounds like a slam dunk then

[drifting fable]

Actually blessed

[void hound]

im gonna be real

this assa 4pc bug

might make roll sub all the way

[hazy breach]

I mean the 4pc bug is benefitial

But it feels so ass

[void hound]

how so

feels like im missing out on cds

but i havent paid close attention

[hazy breach]

You get +30s cdr on dm

When it bugs

Or well -30 ig

[void hound]

huh

im pretty sure it added cooldown

[hazy breach]

Idk thats not the common bug, ie the one mentioned in the pins

That bug is that its 30s extra cdr on deathmark specifically

[void hound]

im like 99% sure on dimensius it munched the t set and put deathmark on 2 minutes

actually i might have just sent KB which made it feel like my DM got delayed a ton

[patent lichen]

mythic sack sims really well o.0

[alpine wraith]

it is not bad

[winter ice]

is thought the dance combo was BS < EVIS < SStrike < sectec?

[rigid pasture]

yes salatik is rly good

[hazy breach]

Ye bro is a true diehard sub enjoyer

Gotta respect the hustle

[winter ice]

are we holding netherprism for 20 stacks or sending on cds?

[hazy breach]

Its 18, but in a target dummy scenario it doesnt matter

In practice its often better to send it at 18, because of damage amps/bigger pulls

[warped zodiac]

pogging so hard rn

[fair anchor]

What do you do if sectec comes off cd during your first 12s dance ? Press symbol and send it ? Or wait for second dance ?

[hazy breach]

Just send

[fair anchor]

Without even symbol ?

[tepid trellis]

lil eco run

[hazy breach]

I did almost 8m in a dawnbreaker earlier

[tight sparrow]

hc allstar subtlety points

so low

[hazy breach]

I got chest with avoidance from hardmode

[steel jolt]

what happened to the other dps

[tight sparrow]

how does it count btw this allstar points

[steel jolt]

wait there are two tanks?

[tight sparrow]

do they look only dps at allstar points ?

@hazy breach

[hazy breach]

What

Warcraftlogs should have a writeup about how allstar points work somewhere

I have no idea

[left flame]

are we getting nerfed boys - flood

[void needle]

I hope not

[swift tinsel]

yep its your fault

y u do dis to us

[fallen crescent]

do sims not properly display double on use?

[crystal bone]

10 flood

3 chest

blasting

sub is so fun right now

[warm depot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tacit maple]

is Lily kinda meh for Sub because it doesn't work well with double on-use?

[hazy breach]

No it just doesnt give much stats

Double on-use isnt really good in general

Its forge+prism thats good

[tacit maple]

ahh, gotcha

ty

[hazy breach]

And even then, prism+passive is usually better

[misty cliff]

Is it because prism has low stacks at the start of pull?

[tacit maple]

I have mythic lily in vault, trying to decide. Its so good for Assa ST

but might play a bunch of sub as well

[hazy breach]

Its fine, but most of the power is in passive agi

And sub has big burst so having more of the power in the active is better

[void needle]

I don't mean to bring class hate in here, but holy shit. It's always the ret paladins that do solid damage yet simultaneously have no clue what is happening in the game. I'm tired of them bricking my keys, I am done inviting them period.

[misty cliff]

So the normal CD sequence is flag > rupture > dance/symbols > backstab > blades> sectec

What’s the optimal way to enter CDs if rupture doesn’t need to be refreshed?

[void needle]

you always spend after flag and before cds, generally rupture. But if it REALLY doesnt need refresh, use evis

You just have to make sure you never let rupture fall off during cds

[real plank]

hello guys, what craft can with second spark ? wrist or neck? I have dagger 720 for m+

[void needle]

whichever is lower ilvl or worse stats

Both are pretty common second crafts

[quick crypt]

guys my cb+st macro isnt working for some reason

anyone have idea how to fix it?

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

[quick crypt]

small indie company yee

[silent ruin]

If you switched to fatebound assassination, n swapped back it won't work unless you logout. I reported this in season 1 , but nobody was playing fatebound assa then 😄

[young roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void needle]

Why is the default talent build using death cheat? Elusiveness is peak

[high eagle]

Double on use puts the other on a 30 sec CD still right?

[tight sparrow]

30

[void needle]

Yeah, double on use is pretty trash. I hate seasons when we play it

[high eagle]

Lord imagine being able to pop lily and prism at the same time.

[swift tinsel]

Usually you take elusiveness to survive specific things whereas cheat is a good security blanket against mistakes

[void needle]

I missed the first week, so I'm still not very geared. I rely on having insane uptime on feints 20% dr

Allows me to live priory and floodgate at all XD

[swift tinsel]

Most of the damage you take is aoe so feints baseline damage redux is good enough

[void needle]

They stack no?

[swift tinsel]

Vs an unexpected one-shot negated by cheat

[still anvil]

and since 99.9% of players don't do content where elusiveness is necessary to survive, allowing you to just make mistakes that would otherwise be lethal is almost always worth (because everyone makes mistakes)

[swift tinsel]

^

[bleak night]

they do not stack

elusiveness does not add dr to feint if an ability was already aoe

[void needle]

So it's just a 20 on direct damage, and the normal 40 on aoe?

[swift tinsel]

Ye feint is already insanely strong as-is

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[swift tinsel]

And since guides are recommended for the majority of the player base vs edge cases Cheat makes the most sense in a default build by far

[hazy breach]

In higher content cheat is OP as hell too, everybody makes mistakes

[void needle]

I still macro cb and sectech btw, but I also macro blades and sectech. So when I use blades the first global is sectech, and when I use sec tech the second time it uses cb

[hazy breach]

But if youre always gonna be proccing cheat and elusiveness would prevent that then thats obviously better

[swift tinsel]

Misjudging a swirly circle by a pixel or two

[hazy breach]

Which happens semi regularly in keys

[swift tinsel]

Def never happens nope not to me

[void needle]

Yeah, I feel that

[swift tinsel]

Or being behind but not behind enough to the charging boss in floodgate

[still anvil]

you use cheat to test out what swirlies you can live with feint on what key level

[lilac stag]

The issue I find for me is if cheat procs, I likely wasn’t going to have pressed feint and would be dead… mistakes.

[hazy breach]

Ofc

[swift tinsel]

Low-key a fun mini-game

Same with cloak/evasion

[lilac stag]

With vision issues especially, cheat is 🐐

[still anvil]

first or 2nd day I found out that I barely live the aoe's from last boss of hoa on like 10 or 11
then I did a key as assassination
guess who forgot trickster dr

[swift tinsel]

Trickster dr is so nice

Plus the passive dr of high vers

[void needle]

I'm adhd af, so sometimes I fixate on my rotation too hard and do miss things

I'm not saying I don't make mistakes, but having stronger more flexible dr options I've always enjoyed

[graceful osprey]

What was the reasoning behind shuriken storm between coups?

[hazy breach]

When you have 4p up you cant build stacks towards your next coup

[pliant arrow]

Is there any numbers on how much gain it is to cb the second sectec compared to the first in cds?

[hazy breach]

~1%

[latent finch]

Do we do that also with no shadow blades? Or do we just strike and lose the stack?

[hazy breach]

Nah you just have to tank it without blades

Shuriken doesnt give enough cp for it

[latent finch]

Even in aoe?

[hazy breach]

Its fine in aoe

[kind bluff]

any way to cheese the knockback on plexus?

[hazy breach]

Step your DK friendos

[kind bluff]

sounds good :]

[regal ingot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

12 priory

i'm back

2nd boss dmg

[hazy breach]

Ye sub slaps

[tribal blade]

it feels amazing

gonna run 13 FG with it

fuck sin

[fickle mason]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[young roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome palm]

we are getting nerfed bro its joever

[hazy breach]

Exile banging saladbar too

Its joever

[dusk stone]

sadge

well boys time to go play sin again

[bleak night]

outlaw tier because assa and sub both getting nerfed

gg

[bitter tiger]

!talents

[tribal blade]

noooo

[bleak night]

you guys were supposed to keep sandbagging until after the race

[tribal blade]

there's no shot sub gets nerfed though

with how sin is atm

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-por-que-no-gif-23322568

[warped zodiac]

anyone have a 10+ gambit details log i can look at to compare to mine

[tribal blade]

13 FG i fucked up rotation a lot

[gloomy slate]

why is my overall so much worse than sin when im mostly sub geared in m+?

dont have 4p, not sure if thats bigger for sub than sin

[indigo drift]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[civic lake]

has anyone here simmed bubbling wax by chance? shindig is sayin it simmed slightly higher for Fatebound SIN ST and now im curious

[gleaming fiber]

I'm not sure if this is a known interaction but I've noticed that Coup de Grace generates and consumes a finality proc but I've got no way of knowing if it actually gains the 30% bonus damage from it, has anyone else experienced this?

[hazy breach]

Neither and both at the same time

Coup is split into 3 hits, 25/25/50% is the how the damage of the 3 hits are split

If you have finality up when you cast it the first hit gets +30%, if you dont have it up the second hit gets +30%

[gleaming fiber]

Interesting, but if I dont have finality before casting Coup then wouldn't I expect the 50% hit to give me the buff? I'm not getting it when casting it without the buff.

In other words it seems like the first 25% is generating, the second 25% is consuming, and the 50% is not generating again... maybe theres an internal cd?

[hazy breach]

Its on cast, not per hit

[gleaming fiber]

ahh

[hazy breach]

But yeah its a silly bug

[gleaming fiber]

ty for the clarification

[hazy breach]

If this wasnt the case then finality would be something we'd pick almost all the time right now with the tier

[gleaming fiber]

yeah, it might be troll but im considering taking the second point out of finality for inevitability so that my Shadow Dance with First Dance lines up with Symbols of Death duration, for no other reason than to be able to press the buttons at the same time when refreshing the buff lol

[warm marlin]

pressing the buttons at the same time

[gleaming fiber]

SoD and Shadow Dance

[warm marlin]

yes but usually symbols comes up a lot earlier than tfd ends

[gleaming fiber]

with inevitablility and first dance they both last around 12s for me

well SD lasts exactly 12 but ya know

[hazy breach]

Symbols pandemics either way

But also you should be using symbols to supercharge your secret techniques

[gleaming fiber]

yeah I usually cast secret techniques with the second supercharge so I have more Danse stacks

[hazy breach]

You should cast it asap

[gleaming fiber]

oh yea?

i assume to get it back up asap?

[hazy breach]

And to get your unseen blade procs sooner

[gleaming fiber]

noted, I'll try to work that change into muscle memory

ty

[hazy breach]

A lot of the power of sectech is the extra unseen blades, this tier especially

[gleaming fiber]

gotchya, yeah I assume getting as many coup casts as possible is the goal

[hazy breach]

The unseen blade themselves do big damage too

[gleaming fiber]

are we still using shuriken storm between coup casts to not waste an unseen blade proc or is that interaction fixed?

[hazy breach]

Not fixed

[gleaming fiber]

._.

damn

[hazy breach]

Extremely unlikely to get adressed

[gleaming fiber]

figured

it just feels like ass to press it in single target

especially outside of SB

[warped zodiac]

do we shuriken storm in st too for the bug or no

[gleaming fiber]

as far as im aware yea but i hope im wrong ngl

[hazy breach]

What

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[bleak night]

its specifically in sb that you do it

so yeah it would feel bad to do outside of it

[gleaming fiber]

oop

good to know

ty for the tips :)

[dusk stone]

why is planned execution in the raid ST build?

[tribal blade]

it gives dammy 😉

[dusk stone]

over?

why should it not be a default talent

[warm depot]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[lusty root]

were gaming

[warm depot]

big

[silent ruin]

The drop down into the tree, n skipping rotten, to use planned execution is cause of more frequent dances?

[dense ruin]

Coming back to wow after a long break and getting into rogue. Playing with different specs, and thought the set piece bonuses would change based on the spec you change to. I got a tier piece from LFR while outlaw, but switched to sub and the set is still showing outlaw bonuses - is this just a bug or does the set piece no longer change?

[hazy breach]

Theyre tied to hero talents

This tier

If you swap hero talents theyll change

[dense ruin]

Oh! Well I feel silly now XD

[fast meteor]

!log

[void needle]

Are you ashtronic? The one with a pink parse?

[fast meteor]

yeah

[void needle]

lmao

get out of here

[distant sage]

burh

[void needle]

You're wearing the formal white shirt when the white tuxedo shirt is clearly meta XD

[fast meteor]

okay but

its normal man

fast kill time will get you pink parse

im still 500k under my sim

so its not like i played super well or anything

[distant sage]

!log

[scarlet radish]

Heroic or normal?

[steel horizon]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[warm depot]

this just in

dont tricks on fractilus

i think i griefed just as many pulls as i did on gally cuz of it

[scarlet radish]

What does it effect

[warm depot]

i think its something to do with the tank swap

our tank kept getting trucked right after swap

and i think the tricks aggro fucked something up

[tribal blade]

yaaaas

[warm depot]

yuge

gz

[strange chasm]

worth sending myth crests into heroic nether probs eh?

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't do that right now tbh

depends on if you're gonna be running mythic raid

[warm depot]

peepopog

i may not have 4p

but at least i have prism

[bleak night]

i got a champ track prism at least

it aint much but its honest work

[lusty root]

heroic

[rancid crow]

Hey guys, how am I doing?

[distant sage]

if its dead youre doing great

[distant sage]

yo dont flex too too much not

[rancid crow]

fr tho I have no idea how to work this website

or why my number is so low

[warm depot]

whats the tech with prism

[rancid crow]

I really didn't think I was performing that poorly, My dps was pretty close to the unbuffed sim

[warm depot]

send on opener then on cd?

[distant sage]

in raid what i saw from heroic log you send it every shadow dance it seems

[rancid crow]

then again I swapped to sin before I hit 680 so maybe that has something to do with it

[warm depot]

word

[distant sage]

in m+ i think its just better to send it with shadowblade

[distant sage]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dJt1HgzRaMYfVjmT?fight=35&type=damage-done&source=54&view=timeline

for most of the bosses its like this from what ive saw

[warm depot]

hm hes offsetting it a bit

thats interesting

[scarlet radish]

Hell yea dude, fingers crossed now with 4 set I’ll bump my orange to a pink parse tonight

[bleak night]

if im playing prism as only on use its just every blades right

unless im saving for an amp

[sonic turret]

How much damage are you guys pulling in normal raid?

[lusty root]

You got it 100%

[lusty root]

Doing normal right after we finish heroic in a min, I’ll let you know

[jagged rover]

we've had 5 netherprisms, 3 of which are heroic. Had a normal one but got to upgrade it tonight lol

[jagged rover]

just finished normal, but I also wasn't playing sub on all of the fights this week

[sonic turret]

That’s crazy, I’m like 25% brand new to sub

[lusty root]

just got this lol

[jagged rover]

hunter alt? think it uses netherprism for MM lol

[lusty root]

no 🙁

[jagged rover]

or DK I suppose. I haven't been playing any alts this patch

[lusty root]

DK might work

i have an alt dk i might give it to

[jagged rover]

I might get my feral druid geared up

[plush roost]

No prism for the second split run in a row how cooked am i for araz prog

Gonna be a lily gamer xd

[lilac plume]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[winter ice]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[tribal blade]

is CB+sectec macro not working?

[distant sage]

didnt work for me as well today in raid

[fast meteor]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

[tribal blade]

LOL fucking A

this game i swear

[warm depot]

LMFAO that hit exile too when they started salad bar prog

is there a different spell id for the secondary cdg from 4p?

[tribal blade]

this is what i get for multispeccing for once

[warm depot]

man thats annoying its the same spell id

[icy mulch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[icy mulch]

Is there a bug with macroing cold blood? I have a separate keybind for cold blood secret tech for during blades and it says that cold blood isn't a learned spell

[serene notch]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[serene notch]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[serene notch]

I think there’s a bug with CB when switching between sin and sub.

[winter stirrup]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

[short radish]

filthy spec traitor

[warm depot]

man is there no other way to track this 4p

or will i just get used to it looking for the 2nd cast

oh wait

its always

am i stupid

i thought it was a chance LOL

[short radish]

yeah you have a 100% chance to proc it

[warm depot]

im really dumb

[short radish]

one of us

[warm depot]

i spent like 30 minutes trying to figure out how to make a WA to track the 2nd cast

[warm marlin]

unleashed

[fiery rampart]

Like imagine having a raiding guild

[fluid moth]

will a forge / prism macro automatically rotate for you if you do /use Forge --> /use Prism?

[fiery rampart]

They need to start every season with dinars

[fluid moth]

or do you need 2 separate binds etc

[warm depot]

myth antenna

[wicked urchin]

and prism goes to the hunter

[warm depot]

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-wtf-gif-25758871

[wicked urchin]

[plush roost]

No prism its joever

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

i believe vault will save you

it saved me today

[plush roost]

Next week

[short radish]

[wicked urchin]

we just gave it to our hunter

im crying

[warm marlin]

unlucky

[wicked urchin]

after r1 fractilus im suing someone

[fiery rampart]

How good is araz trinket for sub I’m lowkey gunna try sub since I prefer it but I been playing assass rn since its busted

This the only season I haven’t done a single key as sub

[lucid jackal]

its meh

[fiery rampart]

So probably run signet

I also got a void trinket from a deve that gives like 13k mastery

Delve

[warm marlin]

signet is even worse

need prism or lily or pvp

[fiery rampart]

I got a hero lily too

I’ll just use that and the 13k mastery

[serene notch]

I’m prob going to be hard stuck on a hoc for a while

I had transmitter for like 5 weeks felt bad

[fiery rampart]

Oh it’s called void touched fragment

[scarlet radish]

[misty cliff]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[misty cliff]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[misty cliff]

hey all, question. If I sectec with 0.1 seconds remaining on my shadow dance, does the sectec still get buffed? or is the damage calculation applied when the clones actually hit?

[gloomy slate]

4pc today and this boys

im rdy for m+ and raid

[tame terrace]

bruh i feel like i have no energy with the m+ builds

[fiery rampart]

!trinkets

Nothing huh

Crazyyyy

[lucid jackal]

M+ build is cope

[tame terrace]

lol

[spice matrix]

another week not 1 Netherprism for our guild

so unlucky

[spiral marsh]

Do we still use backstab as the first opener in Dance even without the first dance talent?

[short radish]

yes

[minor bobcat]

apologize for my ignorance but is sub rogue pretty similar to last tier rotation wise or is there some key differences i should learn before specing into?

[silent ruin]

When clones hit

[spiral marsh]

Is it a dps loss to use backstab as the first opener in Dance on a big group of enemies?

[strange chasm]

are you guys holding cds on pull on forge?

mythic,

[lucid jackal]

Yes

Hold until 20-22 seconds

Right as the purple puddle spawns so ur sectec hits the first set of orbs

if ur guilds damage is really bad then u can just use the firstr sectec as they spawn

then u use them right at 2 and they should be ready for burn

since burn is at like 3:45ish

then just ofc only send dance/sod when orbs come out

[spiral marsh]

Does shadowstrike with Nimble Fury apply find weakness to all targets it hits?

[lucid jackal]

nop

[spiral marsh]

so do we still black powder with 4+ targets even if they don't have find weakness?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[dusk stone]

yo got me a prism

we about to cook

[swift tinsel]

the BP buff going into 11.2 made you look more at target count than find weakness count

[bleak night]

do we think double on use is worth on araz if you just have lily and prism instead of forge

go like lily>lily>prism>lily>prism

and hit the amps

[lucid jackal]

double on use is kinda overrated

[bleak night]

i kinda agree

but fully stacked prism into amp sounds giga

[dusk stone]

holy

dimensius is horrible

dude cucked every single dance in p1

[bleak night]

[dusk stone]

what is damage

[spiral marsh]

so it's still objectively better to BP at 4+ targets? I guess the lack of 30% extra shadow damage from BP is still just better than evisc

And evisc being cleaved with nimble fury doesn't apply shadow damage, right? It only applies normal (non-shadow) damage from what I understand

[swift tinsel]

yep you bp at 4+, or 3 if all 3 have Find Weakness

and the shadow damage from evisc is coverted to phys when it nimbles so it does less

because phys damage is mitigated by armor

nimble flurry basically just converts the eligible damage event into its own Nimble Flurry physical damage event

really wish they'd change how the whole thing functions

[frail kindle]

find weakness needs a gameplay update

[swift tinsel]

*removal

it's responsible for most of the friction in the spec

and also shitty bugged interactions that pop up with tier sets

[serene notch]

The math changes in blades right? BP at 7 or more?

[dusk stone]

why would the math change

[tame terrace]

y tho

[swift tinsel]

nope its 4 in and out of blades

[tight sparrow]

trinket pacemaker angle ?

[serene notch]

Hmm that’s wack, I don’t understand the last buff they gave us then around making nimble flurry better in blades if in the end im pressing BP on 4(3) targets

[dusk stone]

so hows prism work

do i do it on pull for raid or?

cause it needs stacks

[bleak night]

you can press the button but it isnt gonna do anything

[serene notch]

Also if we are pressing BP at 4 targets always I don’t get how the huge parsers in keys have such skewed numbers towards nimble flurry

[warm marlin]

any knowers look into sub vs. assa for m soulhunters

sub seems fine for it and i dont really want to manage ds

cringe af

[lucid jackal]

Idk

seems like bad ST

I hate tornado

I hate not playing inev

Just a bunch of shit talents I dont like playing

[tame terrace]

nah not playing tornado

[warm marlin]

@lucid jackal thoughts on above

[swift tinsel]

Yeah miss me with any non-inev builds

[tame terrace]

m+ build no tornado

[lucid jackal]

on sub for soulhunters?

[tame terrace]

i hate nado

[warm marlin]

ye

i know they were swapping a lot in race

[lucid jackal]

I think sin is turbo broken on that fight but I think I wanna pull on sub a few times to be certain

I don't really wanna bother with DSM tbqh

[warm marlin]

dsm sounds awful to prog with

[lucid jackal]

I mean u can just take without a trace

[warm marlin]

sub felt great in heroic this week

[swift tinsel]

Tried playing fb sin a few times tonight and I hate it compared to sub

[lucid jackal]

I think every top log is playing without a trace which actively doesn't do any damage lol

[tepid trellis]

im just gonna echo what exile told me, the timings for flag/blades are not fun on that fight, its always when one of the bosses fucks off, and you cant really delay too much otherwise your cd sets gets cut short

and intermission is at 3min

so not that great

[warm marlin]

[swift tinsel]

So you’re saying outlaw angle

Got it

[tepid trellis]

i do have a mythic outlaw wep

so i "could"

[warm marlin]

i suppose ill try it when we get there

[swift tinsel]

Maybe if I lose a bet I’ll play outlaw

[warm marlin]

maybe dsm is worth the effort

[swift tinsel]

Until then tho

[tepid trellis]

ill play it if i have too, but doubt thats the case

[frail kindle]

just playing sub lul

[tepid trellis]

currently yamming on this

[warm marlin]

outlaw is too cringe with the tether mechanic it looked like

[swift tinsel]

My ele has been truly cursed with drops

[winter ice]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[swift tinsel]

So I’m shelving it for a lil bit

[limpid sage]

I don't understand how soleahs is worse than pacemaker

it gives you 50% of desired stat (compared to pacemaker), but you have it for every burst rather than every 2nd

IT SIMS HASTE

[short radish]

yeah default for soleah is haste

you need to put some custom config to do not haste

dunno what that is though

so dont @ me

[limpid sage]

.

[clever delta]

Guys I did not watch race yet, is sub played pn every hard boss so far ?

[pastel rampart]

shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=versatility

[short radish]

[bleak night]

sub has been played on araz and now salad bar

and echo played sub on soul hunters while liquid played assa

[limpid sage]

where do I put this?

[clever delta]

Thanks

I think I do so some sub gaming

[limpid sage]

nvm found out

[clever delta]

I already forgot all optimization after assa Brian rot

Brain

[limpid sage]

soleahs actually better than pacemaker

sick

[lunar bluff]

Am I hearing sub rogues have to play law on mythic soul hunter

🍿

[autumn canopy]

hello why in aoe situations we use shurkien storm and not shadowstrike doesnt shadowstrike deals more damage ?

[fast meteor]

60% ar uptime

[young roost]

Roughly what ilvl ring are we replacing jastors

[cursive vapor]

Shadowstrikes inside your dance, shuriken storm outside of dance

on 3+ targets or so

[stiff stirrup]

do you guys take myth tier item or a good trinket first week (lily/pacemaker)?

[autumn canopy]

oh thank you very much

what about finisher black powder or evi ?

[olive silo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cursive vapor]

In dance: black powder on 4+ targets, or 3+ with find weakness active
Outside dance: evis prio, black powder if flawless form is not active or on 3+ targets

[tepid trellis]

to not confuse yourself

[stoic pier]

How many embellished crafted items can I have equipped?

[tepid trellis]

you can just streamline it to 4 target = BP

[stoic pier]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lunar bluff]

peak normal raid gameplay

[stoic pier]

Does anyone have that macro that casts SD + Symbols + backstab? I think ive seen it here earlier

[median axle]

Can anyone help me with advice on my vault

I have 4 piece and netherprism normal already

[steel zinc]

Forge

if you do any kind of m+ or prog

pretty no brainer

[stoic pier]

You should try the top gear sim too, just to get more context

[median axle]

Thank you

[dusk stone]

so how does prism work

can i charge it before a key starts or

[tepid trellis]

hit stuff