#subtlety | Ravenholdt | Page 445

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

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!bugs

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:25 PM

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Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

random hare Aug 11, 2025, 4:26 PM

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does rotten affect nimble now?

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or still

dire pulsar Aug 11, 2025, 4:26 PM

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i m constantly between sin and sub as a new rogue, thats crazy how i cant choose. Gear is kinda close for both spec right ?

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 4:27 PM

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dire pulsar i m constantly between sin and sub as a new rogue, thats crazy how i cant choose...

You can play both with like, one change really, ye.

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 4:27 PM

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dire pulsar i m constantly between sin and sub as a new rogue, thats crazy how i cant choose...

Yeah you can pretty much switch freely, maybe swap a ring and/or neck

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 4:27 PM

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It's very comfy

dire pulsar Aug 11, 2025, 4:28 PM

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its crit and vers that are inversed right ?

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thanks for the answer

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:29 PM

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Just dont get haste and its fine

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 4:29 PM

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what?

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surely there would be pin if thats the case

tepid trellis Aug 11, 2025, 4:29 PM

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random hare does rotten affect nimble now?

to my knowledge no.

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:30 PM

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Rotten works with nimble

tepid trellis Aug 11, 2025, 4:30 PM

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clever delta surely there would be pin if thats the case

for like 3% dmg in keys?

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the crit amps work?

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crit dmg amps*

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:30 PM

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Not the crit damage amps no

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But the amp from rotten itself

dire pulsar Aug 11, 2025, 4:30 PM

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hazy breach Just dont get haste and its fine

y thats noted ! 🙂 i was at like 15k haste on stuff start of the week, i m at 2k and that rest of set piece from UM. Cant wait to optimise and try m+, the class feel really amazing to play atm

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 4:31 PM

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I’m down to 1% haste as sub, so close

haughty widget Aug 11, 2025, 4:33 PM

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!guides

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:33 PM

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Guides:

WoWhead - by fuu
Method - by Stealthi
Icy Veins - by Eleem

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

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What FW stands for?

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

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Find weakness

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 4:38 PM

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Ty

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:44 PM

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W00t. How exactly?

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!bugs

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:44 PM

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Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

tender frost Aug 11, 2025, 4:47 PM

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anyone know which bosses have damage amps for raid this season

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:47 PM

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tender frost anyone know which bosses have damage amps for raid this season

2,4,7,8

tender frost Aug 11, 2025, 4:47 PM

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nice thank you

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:48 PM

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Np timings I can share but kinda useless since they buffed all hp of all bosses on mythic and hc by up to 50%

bright elk Aug 11, 2025, 4:49 PM

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are they all based on boss health or are some on a strict timer?

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:50 PM

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bright elk are they all based on boss health or are some on a strict timer?

They are timing based but also boss hp

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 4:50 PM

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Does FW is applied with Nimble Flurry?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 4:51 PM

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it isn't no

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it is only a numerical thing

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it means fazed targets get more damage from nimble

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also could mean finishing rules change again ^^

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dracthyr_kek

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tho we will see

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:52 PM

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2nd 4th boss depends on HP off the boss and adds. 7 kinda boss HP but more based around it's always after the add phase. Endboss is a phase when you reach p3 but that's also more HP then Timing.

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

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vale pine it means fazed targets get more damage from nimble

What did they exactly fix today on live or ptr?

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And is it a dmg buff or loss the fix?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

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there is no ptr

mighty zephyr Aug 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 4:53 PM

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the whitelist seems fixed

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:54 PM

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vale pine the whitelist seems fixed

Wdym sorry?

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:54 PM

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Probably got changed when they changed nimble to work with blades

lucid jackal Aug 11, 2025, 4:54 PM

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A lot of bugs got fixed this patch for sub

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Very nice

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

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I know they fixed nimble to work with blades and what else did they fix?

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Rotten yes

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

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lucid jackal A lot of bugs got fixed this patch for sub

!cbug

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

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Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

Relogging.

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

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dracthyr_kek

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

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hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:55 PM

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If you had FW and fazed up on all targets.

Previously:

100 damage to main target, it cleaves 57
Now:
100 damage to main target, it cleaves 60 (5% more)

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 4:56 PM

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per every target up to 8 so kinda good

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:56 PM

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hazy breach If you had FW and fazed up on all targets. Previously: - 100 damage to main ta...

oh they fixed the armor bug?

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 4:56 PM

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No

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 4:56 PM

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the fazed with nimble

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5% amp

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

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!bugs

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

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!wa

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

stoic marten Aug 11, 2025, 4:58 PM

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!up

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 4:58 PM

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

spring veldt Aug 11, 2025, 5:06 PM

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 5:06 PM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

crystal bone Aug 11, 2025, 5:07 PM

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lucid jackal A lot of bugs got fixed this patch for sub

PogU

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big dam now??

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:08 PM

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welcome things as they affect our AoE

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even if it does not change much from the bp or evis conditions our nimbled strikes and autos get benefit too

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 5:09 PM

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I'll gladly take bugfixes over any big sweeping changes

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the nimble/fazed one is real nice

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:10 PM

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Is there a list of what actually got fixed?

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 5:10 PM

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Its like +1.5%-2% to overalls

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So not huge, but not bad

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 5:11 PM

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ye, just a few baby steps in a good direction

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:11 PM

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better than going the other way from typical sub fixes

crystal bone Aug 11, 2025, 5:11 PM

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hazy breach Its like +1.5%-2% to overalls

hell yea we take those

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Business

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 5:16 PM

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hazy breach Its like +1.5%-2% to overalls

st or dungeon?

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 5:16 PM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 5:17 PM

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steel zinc st or dungeon?

dungeon

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or well aoe

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 5:17 PM

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Dungeon

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 5:17 PM

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there is no nimble on single target

oblique mauve Aug 11, 2025, 5:21 PM

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Is there a place i can look at useful macros for sub rogue?

haughty mural Aug 11, 2025, 5:22 PM

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vale pine it means fazed targets get more damage from nimble

poggers

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didnt think this day would come

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 5:22 PM

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vale pine there is no nimble on single target

Yeah let me copium pls for st

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🙏 for last tuning and buffs tonight

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 5:23 PM

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oblique mauve Is there a place i can look at useful macros for sub rogue?

Theres not much

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!macro

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 5:23 PM

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Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

oblique mauve Aug 11, 2025, 5:23 PM

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hazy breach Theres not much

thank you

kind bluff Aug 11, 2025, 5:29 PM

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Interesting, looking at the guide we are gonna run double on use as a possible setup. I take it using forge while netherprism stacks up for use on the second windows? Then what would we use for the third window? Forge again and let netherprism stack for a longer duration?

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 5:30 PM

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kind bluff Interesting, looking at the guide we are gonna run double on use as a possible s...

For sanity just run prism and passive

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its not much of a gain double on use

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get pvp trinket btw its really good for double on use

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:33 PM

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kind bluff Interesting, looking at the guide we are gonna run double on use as a possible s...

yes

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 5:33 PM

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!bs

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 5:33 PM

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Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:33 PM

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you pull forge 1:30 nether 3 forge 4:30 nether etc

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pvp trink is a bit funnier

loud brook Aug 11, 2025, 5:34 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mgWH7m83tNKuCLHgRTRvW8 ran a sim on some possibile changes on talent tree for ST. Is sim just not accurate on this? or is it something to do with me not having tier set yet? im seeing the rotten and weaponmaster still simming higher

Raidbots

Top Gear - Jutadous - 1,860,694 DPS - Raidbots

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:34 PM

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you would pull pvp 1:30 prism 1:50 pvp trink 3 min pvp trink 4:30 prism 4:50 pvp trink etc.

kind bluff Aug 11, 2025, 5:35 PM

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Got ya. Ill have to tinker around with it some. Ty as always hach

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:36 PM

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most of us will be stuck with prism nm/hc and pvp trink for a while

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fractilus M is fake

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 5:36 PM

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Isn’t passive just better

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:36 PM

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well if you get a mythic passive yes

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:36 PM

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loud brook https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mgWH7m83tNKuCLHgRTRvW8 ran a sim on some ...

You’ve got no gear right now.

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:36 PM

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but hc will be same ilvl as pvp trink

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as you wont slam 30 gilded

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on a hero trink

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or would you?

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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You have to upgrade pvp trinket with pve crests

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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I'll slam 30 gilded on my bracers

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To confuse the sim

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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i mean you upgrade any trinket until runed

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but a hero passive

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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hollow spear I'll slam 30 gilded on my bracers

Slam the free heroic craft on them

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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you wont use the last 2 steps anyway

distant rapids Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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can we use carved crests

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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so it is same ilvl as pvp trink

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and worse most of the time

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ye carved are free for all

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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likely

distant rapids Aug 11, 2025, 5:37 PM

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thx hach

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 5:38 PM

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u dont slam gilded into pvp trink, its champion track

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:38 PM

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I slammed crests into heroic trinkets when they weren’t going to get replaced in prog

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:38 PM

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i said on a hero track passive trink

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 5:38 PM

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I’m upgrading my PvP trinket to 6/6H there is nothing you can do to stop me

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:38 PM

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sadly it is champion so you cant kek

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:38 PM

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chrome palm I’m upgrading my PvP trinket to 6/6H there is nothing you can do to stop me

🤝

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:39 PM

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remember when we still had PVP vaults

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the butthurt people on getting pvp trink or weps

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WAAAAAA people that play the game get more gear than me

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 5:39 PM

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!bis

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:39 PM

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PvP crafted bracers easier to socket

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I haven’t looked at socket values though

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 5:40 PM

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lilac stag I haven’t looked at socket values though

about tree fiddy

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 5:40 PM

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!amps

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 5:40 PM

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Subtlety damage amps that work on items:

Find weakness (physical damage)
Planned Execution
Lingering Darkness (Deathstalker)

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:40 PM

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they are weakish

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but still something

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:41 PM

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this week it’s get trinket then slam what I can in 5 hours I have to play this week. OMEGAKEKW Pepegrin

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 5:41 PM

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hell tomorrow splits start

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:41 PM

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Maybe blizz give N.A. rwf advantage and bring servers up early copium

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:42 PM

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nah best i can do is servers up at 3pm

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:42 PM

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trying to get all my travel shit sorted today.

distant rapids Aug 11, 2025, 5:43 PM

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were playing first dance in raid ?

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:43 PM

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yes

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 5:43 PM

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distant rapids were playing first dance in raid ?

i will

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:43 PM

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100rogue

distant rapids Aug 11, 2025, 5:44 PM

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once per fight worth ?

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:45 PM

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wm is super weak so yes

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literal dog talent

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 5:47 PM

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we are a burst class. TFD gives us more of that. WM does nothing of any real use.

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 5:55 PM

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SOON

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likely finish it tomorrow at work

loud brook Aug 11, 2025, 5:59 PM

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distant rapids were playing first dance in raid ?

sim is saying weaponmaster is doing a lot more than first dancehttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sVdqrN9Sk4k4R9jdWWyTHY

Raidbots

Top Gear - Jutadous - 1,859,960 DPS - Raidbots

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idk whether this is a no lust opening/no tier set/5mins being too long/sim not accurate issue or not

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1.4 is like a lot

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 6:02 PM

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Well that is with a character that is not using the new tier (or the old tier for that matter), nor any raid buffs

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Youre also missing sockets and enchants on practically every slot

loud brook Aug 11, 2025, 6:03 PM

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Does those change the result? i didnt know

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can you provide me on your character simming these talents

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 6:03 PM

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Well getting more combo points means the combo points from weaponmaster are less impactful

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:10 PM

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loud brook Does those change the result? i didnt know

My guy you’re about 1.2 milly away from what non-returning / class changing toons are simming

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You can also pull the default simc profile and sim the talents off that

stuck linden Aug 11, 2025, 6:13 PM

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!wa

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 6:13 PM

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Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

loud brook Aug 11, 2025, 6:15 PM

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lilac stag You can also pull the default simc profile and sim the talents off that

i am not too familiar around that lol i just know how to use basic sim. I just changed to a four piece and added full socket/enchant got similiar result. Would you mind share a full bis gear sim on these talents if you have one

upbeat folio Aug 11, 2025, 6:15 PM

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when we go vanish ? 😄

loud brook Aug 11, 2025, 6:16 PM

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dont think you vanish if you have shadowstrike available

upbeat folio Aug 11, 2025, 6:17 PM

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so between dances after opener should be ?

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vanish ig?

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 6:18 PM

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You can also use it for utility

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:19 PM

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upbeat folio when we go vanish ? 😄

its just a filler^^

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unlike sin/outlaw

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we don't have much power linked to vanish

void hound Aug 11, 2025, 6:21 PM

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upbeat folio when we go vanish ? 😄

whenver you feel like it

fallen crescent Aug 11, 2025, 6:22 PM

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alpine wraith SOON

:0 that sounds like i’m going back to sub.

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:23 PM

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alpine wraith SOON

https://tenor.com/view/ppf-lol-omg-gif-21502676

Tenor

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Smolderon fight in the background

random hare Aug 11, 2025, 6:27 PM

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@tepid trellis

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which trinkets simmed best for sub

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for m+

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double on use?

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or

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:28 PM

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https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/subtlety/trinkets/castingpatchwerk5

bloodmallet

Subtlety Rogue, Trinkets, Casting Patchwerk 5

Data for all.

random hare Aug 11, 2025, 6:28 PM

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wtf

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lmao

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:28 PM

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random hare which trinkets simmed best for sub

!steet

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!sheet

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 6:28 PM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:28 PM

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cursed stone idol rofl

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that shit

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:29 PM

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idol does not sim bad in m+

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:29 PM

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loud brook i am not too familiar around that lol i just know how to use basic sim. I just c...

!sheet

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 6:29 PM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:30 PM

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That has the sims/profile

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:31 PM

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i did 4 m0 this week and got that stone idol, ara-ara sac and empowering crystal

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which means i wont get jack shit for the rest

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 6:32 PM

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do not the stone idol

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unless you get it on mythic vault week 2 and nothing else is good

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:32 PM

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Does Sub really need to re-stealth at all? Seems not as vital which is what makes Sub so appealing for me unless I am wrong.

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:32 PM

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empowering crystal simmed nicely, replaced my mythic pacemaker with it

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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tfd is very strong

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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hearty mango Does Sub really need to re-stealth at all? Seems not as vital which is what make...

it is nice for TFD and for prep

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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dear god tfd feels so smooth now

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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first strike guarnatee full combo points is nice going into a pull

stoic pier Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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!gear

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1035163024480276640/1404459195629174957/gearing_v6.jpg

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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void ocean dear god tfd feels so smooth now

yeah they really fixed it ngl

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:33 PM

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@daring raptor What is TFD sorry

rocky ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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alpine wraith do not the stone idol

Is it because of the cast time?

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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the first dance

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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Thank you

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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!loot

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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TFD is simply being out of combat right?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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why does it not embed... hmm

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:34 PM

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for 6 sec out of combat

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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I heard someone in Stream say Sub is one that needs re-stealth most

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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no, outlaw i think

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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I said no way that's literally why I play Sub is not to need that

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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outlaw is the one that needs the most

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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ye we don't really care about it

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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as outlaw your cd's don't count down if you are in stealth

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 6:35 PM

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now if they tied tfd to being in stealth

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:36 PM

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so being out of stealth for too long and not being in combat will tank your dmg BIG

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and ruin your cdr

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:36 PM

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@vale pine Being wowhead writer and Shadowblades would know best. How vital is restealthing for Sub Rogues?

rocky ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:37 PM

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sub

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 6:37 PM

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It doesnt matter

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 6:38 PM

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we dont lose a lot of dps although tfd is nice

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 6:38 PM

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First dance is neat, but restealth in the way youre asking about is completely irrelevant

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 6:38 PM

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arguably outlaw and assa lose more

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but outlaw just vanishes all the time anyway

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 6:38 PM

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They 1000% lose more

daring raptor Aug 11, 2025, 6:39 PM

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alpine wraith but outlaw just vanishes all the time anyway

you would never vanish going for out of combat instead of restealthing

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vanish is like shadow dance for a sub rogue

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:39 PM

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!loot

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 6:39 PM

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1404534249985413140/subtlety.webp

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:40 PM

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Awesome so restealthing minimal, but staying out of combat for 6 sec is useful for increase 1st Shadow Dance that's that I thought

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:40 PM

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hearty mango <@194804407706189824> Being wowhead writer and Shadowblades would know best. How...

it matters for tfd, but also does not matter like for other rogue specs.
There is no big power bound to stealth, so if the tank chain pulls thats fine

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 6:40 PM

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Funny how little good loot dimensius has for us

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:42 PM

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whats with the greyed out items

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:42 PM

#

Thank you

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:42 PM

#

bad stats?

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

void ocean whats with the greyed out items

Haste

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

Wow i've never seen something like that

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

(I assume just bad stats)

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

wicked jolt https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1404534249985413140/...

Is this available for other specs?

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

sigil grey peepoSad

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

naa, only we have Fuu

stuck linden Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

!macro

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:43 PM

#

Dang Fuu a legend

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 6:44 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/plastic-man-real-real-powder-powder-that-makes-you-say-real-animated-comic-plastic-man-gif-7493651428267836743

Tenor

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:44 PM

#

Time to start practicing sub some more I need to hit 14M like Stealthi 😛

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:45 PM

#

hearty mango Is this available for other specs?

Nope. You get 3hr 30 min videos for assa

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:45 PM

#

Anyone got a good WA for TFD

#

!weakaura

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:46 PM

#

Just add it as a border condition to your dance WA

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:46 PM

#

@lilac stag Bruh that same dude made a 1 hour+ video

#

There is actually like ZERO video Sub Guides I tried to layer a few as sleeping sound

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:46 PM

#

If the buff is active, chance dance border

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:47 PM

#

hearty mango There is actually like ZERO video Sub Guides I tried to layer a few as sleeping ...

u will sleep like a baby with Hachas voice for sub guides

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:47 PM

#

under your dance conditions

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:47 PM

#

@void ocean I will look him up

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:48 PM

#

Eleem has a basic burst guide which is still 99% correct.

#

@keen dome we’re ready for hotel gaming. Got wow going on the laptop. pepe_chad

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 6:55 PM

#

Hell yeah

#

That sounds pretty comfy

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 6:55 PM

#

what's worse, laptop hotel WOW gameplay or "I got this PC for free from an office" WOW gaming

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

carmine portal what's worse, laptop hotel WOW gameplay or "I got this PC for free from an offic...

idk, i play on This beauty of a cpu/gpu

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

hotel wifi too? 😄

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

carmine portal what's worse, laptop hotel WOW gameplay or "I got this PC for free from an offic...

lol my first gaming pc

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

Why doesn't Rupture snapshot like Garrote?

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

how are you garroting as sub?

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

vale pine idk, i play on [This beauty of a cpu/gpu](<https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...

when my GF is done with her raid meeting I will get the specs and we shall compare

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 6:58 PM

#

Just naming a dot that does snapshot

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 6:59 PM

#

rupture snapshots finality

#

but dynamically updates with other buffs like dance

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 6:59 PM

#

I have my own PC but it's at my home across the country so I gracefully accept the Office PC that was a friend of my friends boyfriend maybe 7 years ago...

#

he's a good soldier

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 6:59 PM

#

managing snap shotting an assa / feral thing. Fuck them dots on sub

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 6:59 PM

#

Even if he does have a hole in the chasis

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 7:00 PM

#

vale pine idk, i play on [This beauty of a cpu/gpu](<https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...

is this... integrated gpu?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 7:00 PM

#

void ocean is this... integrated gpu?

yes

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 7:00 PM

#

As our rupture still ticks harder. garf_sit

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 7:00 PM

#

bro running sims from apollo 13 level PCs

#

aw hell naw

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 7:01 PM

#

haha, but it works ^^

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 7:01 PM

#

vale pine haha, but it works ^^

https://tenor.com/view/spray-bottle-cat-spray-bottle-spray-bottle-meme-loop-gif-25594440

Tenor

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 7:02 PM

#

raidbots is a hell of a thing

plush roost Aug 11, 2025, 7:12 PM

#

nearly beat the arcane mage on boss dam

#

Sub is actually kinda fire guys

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 7:13 PM

#

Blizzard if you can hear me please buff eviscerate prayge

cursive vapor Aug 11, 2025, 7:13 PM

#

!stats

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 7:13 PM

#

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 7:16 PM

#

plush roost nearly beat the arcane mage on boss dam

‘Nado or No?

plush roost Aug 11, 2025, 7:17 PM

#

lilac stag ‘Nado or No?

Live build

#

with tea

#

any sub experts wanna weigh in and tell me why details list bp as shadow when its 100% physical base damage and 30% shadow from FW?

#

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:18 PM

#

Details colouring is a bit so and so

plush roost Aug 11, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

yeah its fucking me up cause i swear mystic touch is megavalue on sub

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

But also for BP if youre running 2x finality its more like 100% physical and 55% shadow

#

FW doesnt actually do 30% of the phys damage, its more like 44% with the talents were running because of silly armor calculations garf

#

And finality always buffs the shadowed part of BP, not every other

#

garf_sit

solar ermine Aug 11, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

!wa

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

plush roost Aug 11, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

hazy breach And finality always buffs the shadowed part of BP, not every other

Good class

#

haha

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

finally a positive bug

slate marlin Aug 11, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

btw how is a shadow explosion phys dmg?

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 7:23 PM

#

im pretty sure youre just throwing gunpowder at people

#

extremely subtle

upbeat folio Aug 11, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

sorry but we play first dance for single target season 3 or ?

plush roost Aug 11, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

EXPLOSIVE

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

Double on use sims 3% worse with current gear as baseline. Is that a me problem or do you guys have that too?

full bobcat Aug 11, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

Do we craft dagger first week or pass?

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 7:25 PM

#

hollow spear Double on use sims 3% worse with current gear as baseline. Is that a me problem ...

you need the new APL

#

prism needs some brakes

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

full bobcat Do we craft dagger first week or pass?

Yes, unless you feel like you can sandbag your dps throughout the weeks raids and keys while still killing the second boss mythic without the big damage spike you get from crafting a weapon

full bobcat Aug 11, 2025, 7:28 PM

#

I don’t think my guild will kill second mythic boss soon, so nice to know!

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

Sandbagging is en vogue

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

sandbag i mean we have a emote for it

#

dracthyr_kek

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

For those that have done kyveza, is the title account wide or is it still bugged?

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 7:30 PM

#

carmine portal For those that have done kyveza, is the title account wide or is it still bugged...

bugged

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 7:30 PM

#

Thought so

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 7:31 PM

#

alpine wraith you need the new APL

Where can I find that?

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 7:31 PM

#

i saw the lvl 100 brann achievement wasnt working either -- i assume some of this might be fixed when the new delve season actually starts

pearl charm Aug 11, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

"A baseline optimization, which carries over from Season 2, is to not use (not maintenance) Finishers roughly 10 seconds before Flagellation comes off cooldown. This allows us to stack up Shadow Techniques stacks and guarantees the use of Coup de Grace during our burst window."

Am I reading this correctly, that we simply for 10 seconds spam our builders? I dont understand the 'not maintenance' part here exactly

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

Yes just dont finish

#

Build shadow technique stacks

#

It wastes some cp by sitting at 7cp backstabbing

#

But you can think of it as effectively "borrowing" an out of cds finisher and putting it in cds instead

mighty zephyr Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

@vale pine are u cooked with this statement or do the jewelry setting items no longer work on rings in season 3?

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

carmine portal For those that have done kyveza, is the title account wide or is it still bugged...

did you get it??

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

No!

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

dang, any pull now!

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

mighty zephyr <@194804407706189824> are u cooked with this statement or do the jewelry setting...

It still works, idk what fuu is talking about

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

I haven't tried in a while, GF is doing raid-prep

pearl charm Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

hazy breach But you can think of it as effectively "borrowing" an out of cds finisher and pu...

Makes sense, and thats what I guess. But nice to have it confirmed. thank you!

carmine portal Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

her first season raiding from week 1

mighty zephyr Aug 11, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

ok ok ty eleem

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:36 PM

#

pearl charm Makes sense, and thats what I guess. But nice to have it confirmed. thank you!

Although beware, in aoe thats not true as youre losing out on much more

pearl charm Aug 11, 2025, 7:36 PM

#

hazy breach Although beware, in aoe thats not true as youre losing out on much more

good to know 😅

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 7:36 PM

#

Like in aoe you get to storm > bp a couple of times

#

Whereas in ST its backstab soup

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 7:37 PM

#

hazy breach It still works, idk what fuu is talking about

oh, true

#

my bad

#

removed the line

median axle Aug 11, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

!gear

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1404534249985413140/subtlety.webp

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:03 PM

#

that is kind of sexy

rain ingot Aug 11, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

!sheet

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

rain ingot Aug 11, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

!prepull

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

rain ingot Aug 11, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

!design

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

rain ingot Aug 11, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

!guides

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

Guides:

WoWhead - by fuu
Method - by Stealthi
Icy Veins - by Eleem

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

signal moth that is kind of sexy

thanks dracthyr_love was a idea i had today, so now we have it for sub/outlaw.
I haven't poked whispyr to ask if he also wants a sin version

rain ingot Aug 11, 2025, 8:09 PM

#

!bs

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:09 PM

#

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

rain ingot Aug 11, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

!up

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

vale pine thanks <:dracthyr_love:1002454142524067861> was a idea i had today, so now we ha...

he said he does 😉

median axle Aug 11, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

so the pvp trinket may be worth playing as a second on use trinket early on?

plush roost Aug 11, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

Wait thats sick nice fuu

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

is there a backstap/shadowstrike weakaura that i can use for both like sin has?

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

As your main on-use mostly

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

signal moth he said he does 😉

I mean, i have a initial version done. But i would want eleem/whispyr to help me out and might give me input on improvements

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 8:11 PM

#

When you get prism you generally want a passive trinket instead

#

Until you can get forge, but that should take a while unless you get it from vault

#

As taking it from another guildie or friend that needs it more is a bit troll

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:12 PM

#

signal moth is there a backstap/shadowstrike weakaura that i can use for both like sin has?

yes

median axle Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

thanks Eleem

#

i was lucky enough to get a champion lily from m0

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab```

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

what is this on my weakaura (I recognise it lol) but it never goes off or changes and its not a button press?

median axle Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

should i aim to get a passiv 2nd trinket

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

oh weakaura not macro

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

vale pine ```yaml #showtooltip Shadowstrike /cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab```

does this work if i dont have a bonus bar for stalth?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

hmm

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

signal moth does this work if i dont have a bonus bar for stalth?

does not matter

#

should work

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

ok and the weakaura sysmbol lol

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

signal moth what is this on my weakaura (I recognise it lol) but it never goes off or change...

the 2?

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

warm depot the 2?

no the pink dagger

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

oh

#

shadow blades

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

signal moth no the pink dagger

Shadow Blades?

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

ur big cd

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

yh ok but why do i not have this anywhere?

#

lol wtf

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

uh

#

LOL

#

do you have it talented

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

bro i dont have it in my spell book

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

cuz its a talent for some reason

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

median axle should i aim to get a passiv 2nd trinket

Yes

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

yes have it talented

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

signal moth bro i dont have it in my spell book

#

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

i can drag it from the tree but why isnt it in my fucking talent book lol

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

monkaS

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

how weird

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

I mean

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

i got it from talent tree but huh

#

lol

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:15 PM

#

Reload? kekw

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

i was like i 100% know this button

#

i even tried the OBR to see if it used it

grand wyvern Aug 11, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

Did you press apply talents?

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

yh lol

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

signal moth does this work if i dont have a bonus bar for stalth?

If not working ,try with stance:1

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

wtf is it a talent

#

i can use it

#

its just not in my talent book

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

no idea then

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

Are you at the spell book page?

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

yh lol, i reloaded and its there now

#

visual bug im assuming

warm depot Aug 11, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

prly

grand wyvern Aug 11, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

Small indie company

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

so i have looked at 0 guides so far but sub ST seems like... hit symbols, hit dance, hit blade, put rupture up, hit flag, hit cold blood (in some order) hit backstab and then ST on some form of combos and then backstab into evis over and over again?

#

it seems kind of easy?

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

No

#

and yes

grand wyvern Aug 11, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

I suggest you look up the guides

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

You legit said : Hit buttons in some orders

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:18 PM

#

yh last time i played sub was in DF season 1 lol

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

shadow lance You legit said : Hit buttons in some orders

yh but i mean.. hit all CDs then spam evis

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

There were a rework DF s2

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

signal moth so i have looked at 0 guides so far but sub ST seems like... hit symbols, hit da...

It is not as hard as people make it out to be ye

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

i played sub in pvp only really

#

so i just learnt to blow people up

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

So, yes it that

solar ermine Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

!wa

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

Press cd, deal damges, chill 75 seconds

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

#

The basics are still a bit different than most other specs, but once it clicks that you need to make sure you always need to be able to dance twice per blades without fail then it makes more sense

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:22 PM

#

shadow lance If not working ,try with stance:1

none of these macros work

#

i have an old one that is

#

/cast [mod] [form] Ambush; Mutilate

#

but this doesnt do shit anymore either lol

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:22 PM

#

Give me on sec

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:23 PM

#

wait

#

this works

#

/cast [mod] [form] Shadowstrike; Backstab

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:24 PM

#

Put stance 0 ?

#

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:0] Sinister Strike; Shadowstrike

#

Sinister Strike change to backstab itself btw

signal moth Aug 11, 2025, 8:26 PM

#

yh sweet

#

got it now

#

this spec seems kind of fluid

#

maybe its cause i played alot in the past but it seems 'decent' im hitting 3-4m ST

#

and i have no idea lol will go watch guide now

hoary coyote Aug 11, 2025, 8:33 PM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:33 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:33 PM

#

If you don’t cycle targets with Shadowstrike, at what target count does it make more sense to use Storm as your generator outside of Shadow Blades?

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 8:34 PM

#

?

#

Cycle shadowstrike? Wdym?

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

limpid sage If you don’t cycle targets with Shadowstrike, at what target count does it make ...

This?

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

The APL Shadowstrikes different targets no?

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

OH

#

You never Shuriken Storm in AoE

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

Don't think it does

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

Or what does cycle_targets=1 mean

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

Unless between 2 coup with 4 p

#

!coup

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

**Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

that sounds like some clanker shit if its in the apl

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

You always use shadowstrike

#

During dance

#

No matter the target count

#

And this is the first time I hear of target swapping

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

I just can’t make it make sense

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

limpid sage Or what does cycle_targets=1 mean

cycle target means it can switch target if the conditions are met

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:37 PM

#

I mean, you can target swap to apply FW with SS

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:37 PM

#

Surely +4 combo points outweighs Nimble dmg? (If you don’t account for FW spread with Shadowstrike)

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:37 PM

#

But, do we want to focus on that?

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:37 PM

#

vale pine cycle target means it can switch target if the conditions are met

Oh so it’s not just Shadowstrike that it cycles targets on?

shadow lance Aug 11, 2025, 8:37 PM

#

limpid sage Surely +4 combo points outweighs Nimble dmg? (If you don’t account for FW spread...

Outside of dance, yes

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:38 PM

#

limpid sage Oh so it’s not just Shadowstrike that it cycles targets on?

only the line which has it can

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:39 PM

#

vale pine only the line which has it can

Ye ok was just making sure I wasn’t misunderstanding

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:39 PM

#

so it absically means, the sim can use shadowstrike to apply find weakness to additional targets

#

i am the one who wrote it ^^

#

the main use for cycle target is for rupture spreading

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:41 PM

#

Do you remember how big that optimization is on 5t?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:41 PM

#

it becomes irrelevant with more targets

#

its rly just 1-3 targets

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:42 PM

#

Ah it becomes too hard for the cycle targets condition to be met at higher targets or?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:42 PM

#

na, it just makes no diffrence

limpid sage Aug 11, 2025, 8:43 PM

#

Ok will have to test some things tmrw

#

Ty for answers!

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

no problem, come back and ask any time

digital aspen Aug 11, 2025, 8:52 PM

#

new talents and rotational changes apply even before new tier set?

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 8:52 PM

#

some

#

for storm between coups u defo need 4pc

#

but u should BP on lower target count since BP is already buffed

summer peak Aug 11, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

!coup

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 8:54 PM

#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

**Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

summer peak Aug 11, 2025, 8:55 PM

#

Guys, are we still waiting to use CB on the second Sectech?

#

or is it sent on frist now?

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

still second

summer peak Aug 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

ok thank you

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:56 PM

#

summer peak Guys, are we still waiting to use CB on the second Sectech?

yes

#

there are very little chanegs

#

*changes

#

(its late, sorry)

#

but tl;dr:

bp on 4+ targets now
what is written in !coup
are the new optimizations

zealous hedge Aug 11, 2025, 8:57 PM

#

we use inta pois and atrophic?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:57 PM

#

yes

#

instant and atrophic or numbing

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 8:57 PM

#

vale pine *changes

https://tenor.com/view/tupac-tupac-shakur-2pac-tupac-gym-tupac-laid-back-gif-26157565

Tenor

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 8:57 PM

#

is there info out on when to swap tier? like 2p+2p or 4p?
i briefly skimmed icyveins wowhead n the spreadsheet but didnt see anything but i mighta missed it

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 8:57 PM

#

mental dune is there info out on when to swap tier? like 2p+2p or 4p? i briefly skimmed icyv...

as soon as you can

#

new tier is op op

#

moment ill dig you up the sim i did

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 8:58 PM

#

i still didnt get the full grasp on that no finisher ~10sec before flag, is it because we fish for 2 instant coups?

#

stacking cps

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 8:59 PM

#

ah ok
im used to playing specs that have tier so bad that you hold till 4 piece after its been heavily upgraded
this is great i dont have to be like 15 ilvls lower than what ive got in my bags for weeks

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:00 PM

#

#

the old bonus compared on equal item level, because it looks even worse with new season mythic ones

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:00 PM

#

void ocean i still didnt get the full grasp on that no finisher ~10sec before flag, is it b...

the optimization is 0.3% dps or so

#

so its perfectly fine to skip it

#

you still want to keep delaying your coup use for cooldowns tho

#

because thats a bit more than 0.3%

#

(means, if you get coup and cooldown come up soon, don't use evis)

void ocean Aug 11, 2025, 9:02 PM

#

how soon would taht be

#

like ~15-20sec?

quaint karma Aug 11, 2025, 9:02 PM

#

So we dont send them right before our first sec tech in CDs but rather after it?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:02 PM

#

void ocean like ~15-20sec?

yes, like 10-20 sec before flag comes up

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:02 PM

#

quaint karma So we dont send them right before our first sec tech in CDs but rather after it?

after secret

steep raven Aug 11, 2025, 9:03 PM

#

vale pine (means, if you get coup and cooldown come up soon, don't use evis)

What you're supposed to do if rupture is up? Nothing/BP/keep rupturing?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:03 PM

#

secret is first finisher in dance almost always

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:03 PM

#

steep raven What you're supposed to do if rupture is up? Nothing/BP/keep rupturing?

bp is an option

#

rupture only if it needs to be refreshed

quaint karma Aug 11, 2025, 9:03 PM

#

are there any updated coup tracker and counter weakauras, my current one doesn't seem to track when i got unseen blade procs all the time anymore

steep raven Aug 11, 2025, 9:04 PM

#

But that's only if you have Coup up, yes?

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:04 PM

#

i think with season 2 tier it was just rupture because bp can spend winning streak yeah?
so going into season 3 sending bp instead should be fine?
besides the fact that it does negligible damage

summer peak Aug 11, 2025, 9:08 PM

#

if you dance first and then symbols , when the dance falls off are we still aiming for 6 or 7 CBf insihers or is 5 fine?

rapid forum Aug 11, 2025, 9:11 PM

#

!gear

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:11 PM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1404534249985413140/subtlety.webp

ionic agate Aug 11, 2025, 9:11 PM

#

hi bros are there any good sub guide on youtube mostly for raid

left ledge Aug 11, 2025, 9:12 PM

#

how ass is kyveza to do as sub

#

is there self sustain issues

ionic agate Aug 11, 2025, 9:12 PM

#

sub doing just fine i guess

#

with heal brann

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:14 PM

#

only time you take damage is in portals, healer brann and defensives is enough

ember hound Aug 11, 2025, 9:14 PM

#

its chill, i made sure i had at least one potion from brann up during every rift. feinted and vial'ed every rift too. every other rift i used evasion or cloak.

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:16 PM

#

i did it as fatebound assa which is surely less tanky

#

but you dont need to think about rotation so you do more mechanics 😄

bronze blaze Aug 11, 2025, 9:18 PM

#

my symbols of death duration used to show on my personal resource bar, did they change it? how can I get it back on there? I haven't added any new weak auras

summer peak Aug 11, 2025, 9:19 PM

#

hey guys, with COOP, if my CDS are on 15 or 20 seconds left on 90sec. Should i just BS to could coup for my bust window

#

or do i spend and then start BS at 10 seconds left for ST stafcks

#

stacks

split rain Aug 11, 2025, 9:20 PM

#

Guys do we still storm as the 2nd cp generator in dance to spread FW on multiple targets even though we don't play rotten anymore? Or do we just send it immediately instead of backstab? Or do we ignore it completely and just shadowstrike? Or is the added value of a macab stack worth it to just keep doing what we did before?

strange chasm Aug 11, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

vale pine

is this with last season bis profile?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

left ledge how ass is kyveza to do as sub

its doable, the challange is mostly a skill check

strange chasm Aug 11, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

Because when i simmed at 684 it was not that high

tough mist Aug 11, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

How guys can already have 714 cloak 😮

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

strange chasm is this with last season bis profile?

it is with this seasons profile, but the new and old tier set pieces set to 684

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:21 PM

#

mine is 720

#

seems like you are behind

tough mist Aug 11, 2025, 9:22 PM

#

have 707

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:22 PM

#

oh shit

strange chasm Aug 11, 2025, 9:22 PM

#

vale pine it is with this seasons profile, but the new and old tier set pieces set to 684

Ahh I did last seasons and it was only like uh 10% at 684ish

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:22 PM

#

left ledge how ass is kyveza to do as sub

Was able to do it at 678, just have defensive for portal sucks and you’re fine

tough mist Aug 11, 2025, 9:22 PM

#

But I have done 100% of the available quest and most achievements

tough mist Aug 11, 2025, 9:23 PM

#

clever delta seems like you are behind

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:23 PM

#

Lived 12 mins as sub against her lol

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:23 PM

#

12 kek

#

i had like 8min kill timer

#

you were having really good times with here

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:23 PM

#

Didn’t want it to end kekdog

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:23 PM

#

i see

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 9:23 PM

#

!wa

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

garf_sit

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

Nah had two scuffed flag windows

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

thats the real test

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

So that extended the fight a lot

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

fuck killing her, long long can you survive against her

left ledge Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

ty for feedback

#

i have to unlock tier 10 first i guess

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

yeah i stopped playing sub becasue flag and trinket do not reset

left ledge Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

anyone know whats the fastest delve rn

#

fungal folly is cancer i have to actually kill mobs

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

And had her phase into game at sub-1%

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

highest upgrade for reshii wraps this week is 701?

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

707

ember hound Aug 11, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

that must have been a fun round haptics lol

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

swift tinsel 707

how you get more threads

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

bleak night fuck killing her, long long can you survive against her

we had guy testing her for like 25h before he manage to kill her

#

i was really woried about his mental health

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

Lol if I had messed up the guess on that I would have tossed my PC into orbit

jade ginkgo Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

left ledge anyone know whats the fastest delve rn

i just always do sidestreet sluice (or w/e the undermine one is called)

ember hound Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

hahaha i would have done the same man

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

swift tinsel And had her phase into game at sub-1%

dude the same thing happened to me

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

But took like 45-50ish tries so I’m proud

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

i was shaking so much

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

wow update, class tuning notes soon !

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 9:25 PM

#

if i had messed up the cup game i wouldve jumped off a cliff

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

bleak night i was shaking so much

Lmao I was deep breathing every guessing game

#

Knew the feeling all too well from greeding Soulsborne bosses OMEGAKEKW

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

we are winning

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

Yeah haha

frank harness Aug 11, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

stay small warlocks and frost dk's

keen dome Aug 11, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

Sub strong let's go

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:26 PM

#

The 1hp deaths against a boss are a mental killer lol

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 9:27 PM

#

Oh baby

sick sand Aug 11, 2025, 9:27 PM

#

!coup

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:27 PM

#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

**Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

tough mist Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

clever delta mine is 720

How you have a 720 cloak ?
Reshii Wraps talent points are granted every 3 Ethereal Strands Ethereal Strands, improving the item level of the Reshii Wraps up to a final item level of 730. Reshii Wraps talents are timegated, with one talent point being obtained every week. This is a rolling cap, which means you'll be able to grind for Ethereal Strands until you reach the current talent point limit.

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

clever delta we are winning

unsurprising

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

clever delta we are winning

i just checked the bluepost tracker and all im seeing is the previous round of buffs where dis

steel crane Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

!tricks

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

i cant tell you, its secret RWF strat

steel crane Aug 11, 2025, 9:28 PM

#

is that wa and macro still working? idk how it really works

hollow spear Aug 11, 2025, 9:29 PM

#

They must be hiding the sub buffs copium

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 9:30 PM

#

hollow spear They must be hiding the sub buffs <:copium:854628182104080414>

there aint no sub buffs, we get those once an expansion and we got 5% last time

#

nerfs incoming obv

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:30 PM

#

steel crane is that wa and macro still working? idk how it really works

should still work, i haven't used it this patch tho

steel crane Aug 11, 2025, 9:30 PM

#

vale pine should still work, i haven't used it this patch tho

do i need to change the smartmisdirect to something else if im using ToT or keep it as is?

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:31 PM

#

just follow the instructions on the weakaura page

#

and you should be good to go

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:32 PM

#

is the new tech with the tier set why im seeing improved black powder being run for single target?

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:33 PM

#

Neato, no random kneecap nerfs from left field

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 9:34 PM

#

Improved black powder HOLY

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 9:34 PM

#

And havocs got their line

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:35 PM

#

sorry i mean shuriken storm LOL

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:35 PM

#

where is BP buff

#

ello

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:35 PM

#

true

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:35 PM

#

someone forget to write it in note

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

clever delta where is BP buff

we got one in 11.2

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

yeah but we need more

#

to stop pressing evis outside the coup

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

i would love to get secret up to 8 targets soft cap instead of the 5

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

maybe we did

vale pine Aug 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

which would help us out a lot

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

need to be tested

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 9:38 PM

#

!bugs

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:38 PM

#

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:38 PM

#

also im assuming the reason for no more replicating shadows and instead running improved shadow tech is because shuriken storm is so expensive?
im just taking a look at the new build now

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 9:38 PM

#

Imp sht is awful

haughty mural Aug 11, 2025, 9:39 PM

#

Frost dk channel right now PepeLaugh

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 9:39 PM

#

The only reason its even considered is because planned execution below it is worth 2 of the bad talent points were choosing between

#

Also i would highly advice you to not play the aoe build linked in fuus sheet as it does not have TFD (since the resets do not get simmed)

serene notch Aug 11, 2025, 9:40 PM

#

Right now, kinda disappointed that the buff did not lead to more evis vs BP in aoe situation. Also not Playing the rotten taking away guaranteed FW seems yuck.

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 9:40 PM

#

TFD is significantly better than the other alternatives

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:40 PM

#

im mainly looking at single target for the time being
is planned execution that much better than rotten or finality to where youre fine removing them and replicating shadows?

serene notch Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

TFD fix feels amazing

steel crane Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

ok so i have the macro set and i got the WA, i see my cursor highlight itself but does nothing after that, whats the right button? where do i put that?

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

hazy breach TFD is significantly better than the other alternatives

TFD goes super hard this patch

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

mental dune im mainly looking at single target for the time being is planned execution that ...

Yes

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

you get it so much

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

wait what was the fix?

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 9:41 PM

#

It now always starts its timer when you leave combat

#

Instead of randomly waiting a few seconds before starting to count down

mental dune Aug 11, 2025, 9:42 PM

#

thats hilarious but sure

serene notch Aug 11, 2025, 9:42 PM

#

Do we only ST outside of dance windows?

clever delta Aug 11, 2025, 9:47 PM

#

comon send the items tunning too 😄

steel crane Aug 11, 2025, 9:47 PM

#

yeah im not sure it actually works anymore. unless im just plain stupid i cant figure it out

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 9:54 PM

#

!gear

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:54 PM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1404534249985413140/subtlety.webp

strange chasm Aug 11, 2025, 9:55 PM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:55 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

hearty mango Aug 11, 2025, 9:55 PM

#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 9:55 PM

#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

jagged rover Aug 11, 2025, 9:58 PM

#

left ledge anyone know whats the fastest delve rn

tek-rathan abyss with the repair kits took me 5 mins per run the other day when I knocked mine out

haughty mural Aug 11, 2025, 9:59 PM

#

Sidestreet sluice is also fast

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 10:07 PM

#

so

#

is the sub tuning on live rn or still just on ptr

dusk stone Aug 11, 2025, 10:08 PM

#

serene notch Do we only ST outside of dance windows?

for what

#

raids m+ or what

hazy breach Aug 11, 2025, 10:14 PM

#

Idk what sub tuning youre talking about

#

If its the 5% from a while ago then yes its on live

steel zinc Aug 11, 2025, 10:19 PM

#

hazy breach Idk what sub tuning youre talking about

the one we didnt get today

zenith hollow Aug 11, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

do we ever send a sectech outside of dance?

serene notch Aug 11, 2025, 10:34 PM

#

dusk stone for what

M+

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 10:38 PM

#

zenith hollow do we ever send a sectech outside of dance?

yes but you need to know what you are doing

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 10:38 PM

#

if it lights up I hit it?

alpine wraith Aug 11, 2025, 10:38 PM

#

esp have enough cdr for next dance/flag

#

and well time to sleep

mortal hamlet Aug 11, 2025, 11:02 PM

#

!sheet

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 11:02 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

olive flame Aug 11, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

Hey is it possible rogue kinda sucks for solo content ? 😄

steel jolt Aug 11, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

no

#

that's a skill issue

olive flame Aug 11, 2025, 11:10 PM

#

probably

lucid jackal Aug 11, 2025, 11:10 PM

#

olive flame Hey is it possible rogue kinda sucks for solo content ? 😄

What solo content

olive flame Aug 11, 2025, 11:11 PM

#

the story for example farming the phase dives for the back

lucid jackal Aug 11, 2025, 11:12 PM

#

I ended up swapping to sin to do world content

#

But sub should be fine

#

Shit should die in dance/symbols

jagged rover Aug 11, 2025, 11:17 PM

#

sin is more consistent damage, but sub works fine. Things feel slow when you don't have dance charges though

fluid moth Aug 11, 2025, 11:20 PM

#

sim seems to suggest we run both forge and prism and alternate for shadow blades... interesting...

shell willow Aug 11, 2025, 11:21 PM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 11:21 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

shell willow Aug 11, 2025, 11:23 PM

#

fluid moth sim seems to suggest we run both forge and prism and alternate for shadow blades...

Interesting

lucid jackal Aug 11, 2025, 11:23 PM

#

fluid moth sim seems to suggest we run both forge and prism and alternate for shadow blades...

Goodluck getting two of the most contested items in the game

#

Forge is only really optimal once you have it to pair with prism

#

And prism will be very contested

fluid moth Aug 11, 2025, 11:23 PM

#

for sure

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

is netherprism contested? i scrolled through all the wowhead bis lists at least and its not in any aside from sub

fluid moth Aug 11, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

I think Frost DK wants it

shell willow Aug 11, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

It's pretty high up there.

fluid moth Aug 11, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

its also a great M+ trinket

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

huh why the fuck would they say nether prism is the BEST ON USE trinket in the trinket list for frost dk

but not put it in the overall bis chart

warm marlin Aug 11, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

it will likely be a fallback for many melee given how many specs want forge, and dk wants it (there will be many dk rerollers)

#

certainly easier to get than forge though

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

oh well im stealing the trinket for myself anyways

#

its just frost dk and windwalker that list it as s aside from us

#

how is this contested

#

are there lists out there i dont know about

#

grrr

lilac stag Aug 11, 2025, 11:31 PM

#

fluid moth its also a great M+ trinket

If your guild is prioritizing it for m+ play over raid good luck

fluid moth Aug 11, 2025, 11:33 PM

#

Nah they wouldn't. Just saying

warm marlin Aug 11, 2025, 11:35 PM

#

tame terrace how is this contested

I’m pretty sure for guys case he is referring to dks

#

For his guild I imagine they’re prepping 3-4

#

Who would all be higher prio for prism

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:36 PM

#

guy was telling someone else good luck on getting it

warm marlin Aug 11, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

perhaps he thinks many guilds are prepping 3-4 dks

#

I know in mine 2 players are main swapping to it and 2 more have alt dks they’re gearing

#

It’s also better than any sim can suggest with damage amps

#

ppl starting to figure that out

short radish Aug 11, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 11:45 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

short radish Aug 11, 2025, 11:46 PM

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i dont want to get ahead of myself but i think im the only one whos marked netherprism as BIS on our raid loot sheet

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Prayge

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everyone and their mother wants astral though

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:47 PM

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in my bis list sub rogue is the only one with it as absolute bis

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yea

frozen lichen Aug 11, 2025, 11:47 PM

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!coup

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 11:47 PM

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Coup de Grace Optimizations:

**Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

short radish Aug 11, 2025, 11:47 PM

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one DK who's marked that

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WW who marked that

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everyone else just wants forge

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:48 PM

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OMEGALUL

short radish Aug 11, 2025, 11:49 PM

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omegakekW

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guys is this our tier

tame terrace Aug 11, 2025, 11:49 PM

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this is just from sheet i threw together based on wowhead

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my raiders arent all giga knowledgeable about their bis items fully, so i had to throw this together to get a good idea of the heatmap

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just raid specific items tho

jagged rover Aug 11, 2025, 11:53 PM

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with how prism is simming for me, I don't see another person getting the first one over me. Its simming as much as a weapon upgrade right now

neon walrus Aug 11, 2025, 11:54 PM

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I'm too scared to ping ppl here but I wish Fuu would make a 3.5 hour video about sub 🙁

jagged rover Aug 11, 2025, 11:55 PM

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unless we get a stupid amount of antennas to drop, I'm definitely just aiming for picking up a sigil. Its close enough in performance until I can get a myth track trinket from vault

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 11:55 PM

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Antenna is doomed

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It's bis for like every spec in the game

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We settle

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 11:55 PM

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its also off 2nd boss

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likely to see in vault

bleak night Aug 11, 2025, 11:55 PM

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Ye

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Well I wont

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But others yeah

jagged rover Aug 11, 2025, 11:56 PM

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yep, also our weapons from 2nd boss. Will be performing pretty well during most of prog

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 11:56 PM

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literally everything off 2nd boss is bis

swift tinsel Aug 11, 2025, 11:57 PM

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Antenna/Forge are vault angles for me fs

chrome palm Aug 11, 2025, 11:57 PM

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hell, everthing off first boss is probably "bis" too

steady solar Aug 11, 2025, 11:58 PM

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 11, 2025, 11:58 PM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

hearty mango Aug 12, 2025, 12:14 AM

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!mistake

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!mistakes

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 12:14 AM

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Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

hearty mango Aug 12, 2025, 12:16 AM

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So seems rotation is 3 sets of SecTech between Flag/Shadowblade windows?

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Flag CD > Dance/Symbol SecTech > Dance/Symbol SecTech > SecTech > rinse and repeat

rugged skiff Aug 12, 2025, 12:18 AM

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Should we break s2 4-set and run 2-set/2-set as soon as we can or is it not that big of a deal?

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 12:18 AM

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Yes asap

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New tier 2p is almost as good as old 2+4 combined

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And the new 4p is insane

rugged skiff Aug 12, 2025, 12:20 AM

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Thanks

hearty mango Aug 12, 2025, 12:21 AM

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Isn't the new 4p just 2 Coups?

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Am I missing something?

bleak night Aug 12, 2025, 12:22 AM

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thats a lot of coups

dusk stone Aug 12, 2025, 12:22 AM

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coup is big dam and its big dps dps

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legit gives you 15% aura buff

hearty mango Aug 12, 2025, 12:22 AM

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Oh damn okay wasn't aware it counted that much

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I have no tier right now and hitting it doesn't feel as rewarding

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 12:22 AM

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More cdr more flawless form also the second coup is 150% damage

dusk stone Aug 12, 2025, 12:23 AM

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hearty mango Flag CD > Dance/Symbol SecTech > Dance/Symbol SecTech > SecTech > rinse and repe...

the better way to think about it is always lining up symbols of death when sectec <9 seconds of CD and also always supercharging sectec

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you generally want two dances in flag, but depending on CDR it can be 3

wary plover Aug 12, 2025, 12:30 AM

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!macro

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 12:30 AM

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Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

wicked bear Aug 12, 2025, 12:35 AM

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!bugs

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 12:35 AM

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Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

bright elk Aug 12, 2025, 12:36 AM

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is it new that we're okay with using 2min on use trinkets? I dont remember those being too high in our bis trinket lists on wowhead last season

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 12:36 AM

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Double on-use and prism+a passive sims pretty much identical

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But i kinda expect trinket tuning because 90% of the specs in the game wanting the exact same two trinket (forge+antenna) is very silly

bright elk Aug 12, 2025, 12:37 AM

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ok youd get 2 2min onuse and just alternate each time we use cds?

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 12:37 AM

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No

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Prism is not a 2 min

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Its spymaster if you played in s1

bright elk Aug 12, 2025, 12:40 AM

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oh okay I had to log in and lookup that prism trinket

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 12:41 AM

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It stacks up every 10 seconds

bright elk Aug 12, 2025, 12:41 AM

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but if you had that and a 2 min trinket, wouldnt you end up alternating each set of cds anyway? or is it likely to take a long time for thos stacks to build up and be worth popping

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 12:41 AM

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And based on how many stacks you have you get more and more agility

bright elk Aug 12, 2025, 12:41 AM

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gotcha

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 12:41 AM

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It caps at 18 stacks, aka after 3 minutes

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Yes its effectively just alternating between the two

bright elk Aug 12, 2025, 12:42 AM

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all this is good to know, probably gonna be a while till I get one lol

left jungle Aug 12, 2025, 1:12 AM

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Is this real? (ST/723ilevel/ 4set/5min) we won only one mage... why are we so weak?

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:12 AM

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left jungle Is this real? (ST/723ilevel/ 4set/5min) we won only one mage... why are we so we...

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-movie-james-cameron-western-gif-17538858

Tenor

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it's because fuu didn't send out a mass ping to the discord server

lucid jackal Aug 12, 2025, 1:17 AM

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left jungle Is this real? (ST/723ilevel/ 4set/5min) we won only one mage... why are we so we...

This game is a lot different than ST patchwork sims

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that's why

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:17 AM

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dat MM variance tho

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yeesh

formal helm Aug 12, 2025, 1:18 AM

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short radish https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-movie-james-cameron-western-gif-17538858

https://tenor.com/view/crying-the-office-sad-steve-carrel-gif-6504535541019570333

Tenor

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:18 AM

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glad that's not us

rapid torrent Aug 12, 2025, 1:18 AM

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wicked jolt __**Coup de Grace Optimizations:**__ - **Number 1: **You can stop using (non mai...

Hi I had a quick question about this coup optimization - what does it mean by “non-maintenance” finishers?

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:19 AM

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Rupture/SnD

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(mainly Rupture)

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are the maintenance finishers

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so Sectech, Evisc, BP are the non-maintenance

rapid torrent Aug 12, 2025, 1:20 AM

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Ahh okay thank you. Quick dumb follow up but what is SnD?

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:20 AM

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Slice and Dice

rapid torrent Aug 12, 2025, 1:20 AM

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Oh lol

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:20 AM

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typically maintained via Evisc bc of Cut to the Chase

rapid torrent Aug 12, 2025, 1:20 AM

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I forget that is a button

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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yeah for the most part we don't really press it but it has niche uses

rapid torrent Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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I main assa where it’s off our bars so I forget, ty

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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you can use it for cdr between packs in m+ but that is basically the only use

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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^

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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since youll have premediation anyways

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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when you can't BP bc it breaks stealth

left jungle Aug 12, 2025, 1:21 AM

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lucid jackal This game is a lot different than ST patchwork sims

I really hope raid bosses bring us a lot of good gimmicks

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:22 AM

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sub sleeper OP

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:23 AM

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i cant seem to figure out trickster am i a lobotomite

bleak night Aug 12, 2025, 1:24 AM

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possibly

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thats ok though

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we take all kinds here

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if i can learn sub you can too

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:25 AM

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same

zenith thorn Aug 12, 2025, 1:25 AM

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!mistakes

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 1:25 AM

#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:25 AM

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it felt fine when i played it last in dragonflight but i feel discombobulated rotationally rn

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:25 AM

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to be fair, most hero talents dont have a debuff, two separate stacking buffs, a semi-random damage proc, and a finishing move

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:25 AM

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im like down 25% dps

half comet Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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!macro

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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im assuming im misunderstanding something about the fazed debuff

half comet Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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whats the one for not misclicking symbols twice

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!symbols

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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!sod

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

half comet Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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ty

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what does this even do exactly

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:26 AM

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makes it so you can't spellqueue it

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on accident

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:27 AM

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stoic valve im assuming im misunderstanding something about the fazed debuff

what about it

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:27 AM

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idk thats the issue XD

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how do i keep maximum uptime on it

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:27 AM

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stoic valve it felt fine when i played it last in dragonflight but i feel discombobulated ro...

pretend like youre playing outlaw

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just do your single target rotation

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:28 AM

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i mean id have to change my pirate hat to purple for that

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:28 AM

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DF sub is different to TWW sub

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:30 AM

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my issue is I swap toon every season, havent played my rogue since s1 and i was on outlaw for it, but it was named Cancer and it got name changed so i decided to let it sleep and swapped onto prot war, now im like 2 seasons behind information wise

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i just spent last season on ww so im sure im just fuzzled from that

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:31 AM

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since fazed is procced by unseen blade, that means it will only occur after using backstab/shadow strike when any of the following conditions are met:

unseen blade icd reset after 20s ("Unseen Blade")
an auto attack reset the icd ("Thousand Cuts")
secret technique makes your next two backstab/shadow strikes proc unseen blade ("Disorienting Strikes")

basically, inside of your dance windows (after pressing secret technique) you will always have fazed up, but outside of your dance windows it is semi-random whether it is up or not. the only gameplay effect of fazed is whether coup de grace gives flawless form or not

neat plinth Aug 12, 2025, 1:31 AM

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT Aug 12, 2025, 1:31 AM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:31 AM

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it just seems like im spending way to much energy without dps return

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ok thats good to know

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:33 AM

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The only time fazed matters is if either

A. Youve been holding it for a long time for flag, in which case you should be secret techniqueing before the coup anyway so its fine.
B. Your target dies before you get the coup of

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In B's case its actually a bit cringe, but youll just have to hold it then until you get a proc or can cast sectech

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:34 AM

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fazed removed in midnight prayge

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:35 AM

#

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so like

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is this 100% on first hit

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:35 AM

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If it's been atleast 20sec then yes

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:35 AM

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also

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talent out of gloomblade 🔫

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:36 AM

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not good?

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:36 AM

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Not atm no 🙁

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:36 AM

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i dont really do wowhead bs or w/e so this does happen

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chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:37 AM

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that top left side is very important

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CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mBAAAAAgZZMWmGzsMGzMjhhZmxwY2mlZMz22MzYmZGwYZ2GAAAAmBDgxsZYgBmNtQL2gB

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:38 AM

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yea i see that build ripped out the middle

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:38 AM

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stoic valve i dont really do wowhead bs or w/e so this does happen

You'd want something more looking like this for single target:

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:39 AM

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frank narwhal You'd want something more looking like this for single target:

this guy loves shadow step

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:39 AM

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Oh yis

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Find it more useful in a fight environment than imp SS

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:40 AM

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imp ss? nah we are pathing to exhilarating execution

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leech but blue

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:41 AM

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could i see someones bar setup rq

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im restructering everything

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:42 AM

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stoic valve could i see someones bar setup rq

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:43 AM

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chrome palm imp ss? nah we are pathing to exhilarating execution

I trust my healers more than myself 😄

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:44 AM

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i wish they made quick decisions not a loss to take

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:44 AM

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does flurry strikes apply things? like find weakness

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:44 AM

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no

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:45 AM

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chrome palm i wish they made quick decisions not a loss to take

Aren't you only losing Imp SS in place of it? And you only do that once during blades between coups, so I'd say having the extra flexibility with Quick Decisions to be an overall dps increase no?

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:45 AM

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so i just need to rely on shuriken strike backstab for find weakness dps increase?

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:45 AM

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Of course unless it's a pure ST full uptime encounter ofc

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:45 AM

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stoic valve so i just need to rely on shuriken strike backstab for find weakness dps increas...

Well yes, but idk

hard trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:46 AM

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we run tea now

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:46 AM

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hard trellis we run tea now

For M+ yeah

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:46 AM

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Youre phrasing it in a way that seems really odd, you dont really "rely" on them

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Its just part of the passive gameplay

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:47 AM

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Yeah I guess they just meant we keep Find Weakness up with those two abilities, there's no other "trick" to it

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:47 AM

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Find weakness has practically 100% uptime on ST (when you can stand behind the boss that is)

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And not something you think about

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:47 AM

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yea im just trying figure out sub rn

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bc im fucking something up

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:47 AM

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And for aoe its not really something you think about either

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By the sounds of it youre probably looking in the wrong place

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:48 AM

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hazy breach Find weakness has practically 100% uptime on ST (when you can stand behind the b...

For some reason I feel like SecTec also applies FW, or am I going crazy?

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:48 AM

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frank narwhal For some reason I feel like SecTec also applies FW, or am I going crazy?

It does not

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:48 AM

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youre thinking of fazed maybe

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:48 AM

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stoic valve bc im fucking something up

You you should likely be focusing on making sure your burst windows are exactly the way the guides say they should be

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:48 AM

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Fazed I knew, but I don't really track FW so I couldn't remember about SecTec applying it or not hah

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:48 AM

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Because thats 80% of playing sub

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Just nailing that burst window

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:49 AM

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does hekili have accurate rotations rn? ive never used it but was recommended it for relearning by a friend

hard trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:50 AM

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no tea for raid huh

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:50 AM

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stoic valve does hekili have accurate rotations rn? ive never used it but was recommended it...

Not sure, haven't used it before

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:50 AM

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yea not surprised

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im very anti addon so im clueless on that

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im guessing goremaws bite is a dogshit button

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:51 AM

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hard trellis no tea for raid huh

Nope still cb for raid

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Yes very dogshit

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:52 AM

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Liked it in Legion :<

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:52 AM

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But tbf most of our other talents also are

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:52 AM

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Fingers crossed for some juicy reworks at 24:00

chrome palm Aug 12, 2025, 1:52 AM

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frank narwhal Liked it in Legion :<

goremaws nibble not hitting the same

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:53 AM

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Sub kinda has 2 categories of talents. Mandatory ones and shit ones

stoic valve Aug 12, 2025, 1:53 AM

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i really like all the artifact buttons and weapons

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always a shame when you cant use em to me

bleak night Aug 12, 2025, 1:53 AM

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goremaw gaming

jagged rover Aug 12, 2025, 1:53 AM

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the most I think about FW is in aoe, after I hit shuriken storm sometimes my weakaura changes to BP and I hit that instead of evis

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 1:53 AM

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The only exception really is planned execution, which is actually just good, but unfortunately locked behind a shit talent so its effectively a 2 pointer

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:54 AM

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frank narwhal Fingers crossed for some juicy reworks at 24:00

Although I will say I'm more happy than not with Sub atm. There are some bugs and some unintuitive designs for sure. I like our rotation during CDs but I wish there were more to do in between the big ones

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:56 AM

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i don't

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not all specs need to have uptime

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:56 AM

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I always hope one day I'll log in and PV will be gone and Inev will be in its place, plus another 2/3 of our talents nuked

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:56 AM

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this is peak performance and is 100% okay to have

bleak night Aug 12, 2025, 1:56 AM

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incredibly based

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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short radish not all specs need to have uptime

It's just the valleys in our dps can feel a bit meh, the peaks are fun but then back down the valley

warm marlin Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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short radish this is peak performance and is 100% okay to have

the good old days before big subtlety™ forcued us to backstab sadge

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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frank narwhal It's just the valleys in our dps can feel a bit meh, the peaks are fun but then ...

thats okay when you are down in the valley

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just take a breath

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look around

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stretch your hands and fingers

bleak night Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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valleys are beautiful

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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it's okay

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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😄

bleak night Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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enjoy the sights

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:57 AM

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Thats why the peaks feel good

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:58 AM

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Can't have light without the dark

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This is true, you all bring good points

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:58 AM

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warm marlin the good old days before big subtlety™ forcued us to backstab <:sadge:1006372491...

backstab is cringe

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:58 AM

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What do people here like to see changed or added to Sub come Midnight?

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:58 AM

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Gotta offset it to make the burst feel good

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:58 AM

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Remove Find Weakness

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top of the list by far

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remove/tune dead talents

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:59 AM

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That I can agree with. Also would've liked to just see Fazed and Flawless Form be kinda baked into one

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 1:59 AM

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frank narwhal What do people here like to see changed or added to Sub come Midnight?

fix sectech bug
remove find weakness
combine symbols and dance
combine flag and blades
remove sectech cooldown, make it castable once in dance
make TFD whenever you enter stealth

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:59 AM

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Combine flag/blades or just buff blades and remove flag

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 1:59 AM

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The 2~ second window where we can have have FF but not fazed are cringe

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 1:59 AM

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buff Evisc

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 1:59 AM

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Remove split dmg

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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change nimble/blades interaction to have it be a shadow damage proc from nimble hit

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ye no split damage events plz

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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short radish fix sectech bug remove find weakness combine symbols and dance combine flag and ...

Which sectech bug we refering to

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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DESPAIR

left jungle Aug 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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Wondering what the 'developer's great intentions' are for auto-thistle tea, does anyone know?

short radish Aug 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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the one where its unusable on rookery

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 2:00 AM

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completely revamp DS tree so it isn't butt

tepid trellis Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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left jungle Wondering what the 'developer's great intentions' are for auto-thistle tea, does...

Remove button bloat

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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tepid trellis Which sectech bug we refering to

I'd also love if the 40 yard range on the souls don't fuck up logs on fights like carnage 😄

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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i.e. make DN usable with BP, marks consumed while DN up

frank narwhal Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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Should just log myself but still

sharp lake Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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I may have found the least important bug ever? apparently Slice and Dice doesn't gain increased duration when spending a supercharged combo point

hazy breach Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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Its not a damaging finisher peeponerd

swift tinsel Aug 12, 2025, 2:01 AM

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ope