subtlety

[wicked urchin]

why do you think there’s always a rogue now in the rwf lol

[lucid jackal]

There's a reason rogue is in on every wf kill and it isn't the damage lol

[wicked urchin]

yes that

[plush roost]

Stix was a very rare exception

Because its damage was all environemental

[lucid jackal]

Literally a 15 boomkin fight

On week 1

[grand wyvern]

tbf max did talk about rogue buff being one of the most sittable, but rogue would have to be pretty bad and it has never happened cause balance is reasonable

[latent finch]

Btw did they remove this weird stacking from atro?

[lucid jackal]

Yes

Exactly

[wheat edge]

no it still stacks

[lucid jackal]

Rogue buff isn't core, but rogue is never bad enough to justify sitting it

[wheat edge]

its also intended to stack pretty sure

[lucid jackal]

So u always play 1

[keen dome]

Blizz trying to make the 26 sub rogue raid a reality. They believe in my vision

[plush roost]

They did that, called Zul

[ripe flame]

bro is fighting his own secret technique clones

[keen dome]

[plush roost]

Rip shuriken combo

[keen dome]

I'm totally going to try for the rogue only comedy heroic tour this season

And whatever the funniest tank pair + healer pair is

I guess four monks could be fun

[wicked urchin]

i can’t wait to lose prism to someone who doesn’t even need it next week

wtb loot council

[latent finch]

Shami for wft

[keen dome]

oh I guess yeah, a shammie healer would make sense

Warrior tank for shout, shammie healer for skyfury

[glossy dew]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[wicked urchin]

i wish i liked m+ but not having a consistent group kills it for me

[latent finch]

m+ feels totally different if you play with a group you like to play or if you pug. One is terrible one is quite fun

[grand wyvern]

i feel the same but i have to admit that having spammable pve content does make you a better pve player, including for raids

[keen dome]

Pugging M+ is quite fun, I agree.

[latent finch]

I just love the 20 min breaks in lfg

[keen dome]

optimal trade posting time

[wicked urchin]

100% agree i just always end up stop caring about pushing the second it doesn’t benefit for raid anymore

i’d do it with the right people

[hollow spear]

Based on current sims, we're in pole position for prism

[wicked urchin]

someone in my guild is still gonna get it before me anyway

[hollow spear]

Did you steal your loot councils' girlfriends or what

[wicked urchin]

we don’t have loot council

we roll

kill me

[keen dome]

You are a rogue

rig the dice

[wicked urchin]

i’ll try

hasn’t worked the past two tiers

[keen dome]

When you roll, just act like you've won. Pure confidence.

[wicked urchin]

I have pure confidence in losing

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

I'm excited to experience the wild and wonderful world of random whispers to join my pug groups again

[west tide]

i hate gameplay like this wth..

sub janky omfggg

[hollow spear]

Which sweet words would you like to hear from me?

[keen dome]

Well if you see my group, just mention you are you and I'll invite you

the rare exception to my "don't whisper me" rule haha

[hollow spear]

"Hello iGestalt, I am me"

Gotcha mate

You'll know who it is

[keen dome]

Haha

[vale pine]

reminds me of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAVnOz7i-JA

[wooden kernel]

!wa\

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[tight sparrow]

@vale pine on your trinkets sims in ST you simmed with TFD instead of WM it doesnt matter probably but just figured it out.

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

thats intentional

tfd is on par or slightly ahead even on single target

up to a fight length of roughly 6 minutes

wm is easier to play and does not fall off on long fights

but is overall a fairly weak talent

[tight sparrow]

in the pins st build is with WM right?

ahh u changed it

i see

last time i check it was WM

[vale pine]

i changed it

we had a discussion in the channel earlier

and especially first week, most will go heroic and first mythic bosses

which won't last long

so majority is just better off using tfd

[tight sparrow]

what about depths vs versa and crit enho on ST

we dont use depths on ST anymore?

stonebound and oathsworn sims higher even with s2 gear?

[lilac stag]

Excuse me. No one is exempt from the joke whisper

[hidden basin]

Is there a reliable video guide for sub? Trying to learn from wowhead but I seem to be doing something wrong so want to watch a vid if there is one

[barren jackal]

Shindigg has a good thorough guide

[wooden kernel]

or hachadino

he has never failed me

[hidden basin]

Ok thanks

[fallow nimbus]

Doesn't our wax scale with weapon ilvl?

So wax mh and stone oh could be better

[hazy breach]

Practically no difference

You can use oil too

[slim field]

hey, can someone share ptr raid testing logs spreadsheet

[bleak night]

Nope

[hazy breach]

Theres been like 5 tuning passes since then

So its completely irrelevant

[weak magnet]

When we loose the Season 2 Tierset What is the prio of ST in Dance ?

Is it first finisher or 2nd and are we delaying Cold Blood in opener for 2nd dance? kinda different infos on wowhead

[tight sequoia]

Second boss drops a dagger so

Push for second boss this week

And we gucci

[loud brook]

im trying to compare my rotation with the sim and i saw a dry symbol for some reason or is this a sim error?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qCVvRTT5yBgUvtUzrJ8uRf

[barren wren]

in some cases you use symbols w/o shadow dance

[loud brook]

hmm thats different than what i was told early today

[hazy breach]

Sectech first finisher, cold blood only on second sectech in shadow blades

[loud brook]

so dry symbol and dry sectech can both happen?

[hazy breach]

The goal is to make sure you are always able to use 2 of dance, sectech and symbols during each blades

Outside of that you want to use as many of them as possible without losing that ability

[weak magnet]

you can kinda run out of dances for your symbols when you pool for you CDs so you send a dry syymbols with Sectech

[hazy breach]

I would recommend to just not bother with sending solo symbols like that, as its easy to fuck up and theres very little to no difference sending it at the end of the fight anyway

[loud brook]

i understand the part we dry sectech/ symbol with sectech without SoD, but dry symbol doesnt really make sense to me

[loud brook]

ya true

[fluid moth]

Solo setech maybe if you get lucky with cdr

[lucid jackal]

It's some niche Sim only shit

[fluid moth]

But seems like it would be better to pool a symbols for a setech

[hazy breach]

Not quite sure why its even sending there, probably an edge case

[lucid jackal]

Sub does no damage outside of Cd's so it's an optimization that barely means anything and is easy to fuckup

[celest night]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[dusk stone]

Is It normal that basically all my m0 gear so far has haste on it

[steel jolt]

i wouldn't think too much about stats. there are no bad stats

just sim top gear and equip what it suggests

[dusk stone]

Except haste, haste is not a real stat

[steel jolt]

it is very real

[lapis hatch]

Haste is yucky for sub but you’ll replace it all next week anyways

Just go for ilvl

[hard wren]

Is it safe to skip intro quest on alt?

[steel jolt]

yes

[dusk stone]

I'm just asking is m0 intentionally dropping a stilted amount of haste gear or is it bad luck

I got one boot of vers crit and that's it

[lucid jackal]

I think it's literally random what stats they put in the m+ pool

[lapis hatch]

Odds aren’t that low to get haste on your gear

[dusk stone]

Can I craft anything pre patch like this for my circles ring slot or am I holding for next week

[lucid jackal]

U craft a weapon first so probably not

[dusk stone]

So no old spark in pre patch, k

[hazy breach]

You can craft things that dont require a spark

But i wouldnt recommend crafting with your spark

[dusk stone]

Ty

What aside from m0 is gonna give 680+ gear

Delves? Or no

[hazy breach]

Would recommend checking out dr atnos latest video

[keen dome]

You can get a Vet weapon from 5 mask visions vendor. Nightfall weekly can give a Vet piece, too.

[dusk stone]

Thanks I was wondering where to go

[hazy breach]

He goes through all of the things you can do this week

[keen dome]

Dr Atnos's video is very good

[solar charm]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[solar charm]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[solar charm]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vale pine]

second finisher is cold blood

second secret

but it is an optimization

you gain roughly 1-1.5% dps doing so

but its up to you to do it or not

a lot of players just like to macro cold blood and secret technique

and have less to worry about

hope this explains it

but thanks for the feedback, i can see how i can improve the information flow on wowhead to make it more apparent

[vale pine]

can you link it

i assume

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4AmMQpS2GI

this?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[vale pine]

perfect, so i might helped 2 people find it

[loud brook]

every sim i see dont use cold blood in between cd, since the cd times perfectly, is it becasue the potential delay on it? i would assume use a cold blood on one of the evis within small cd would be a small gain tho

[vale pine]

simulations use the optimizations

[hazy breach]

Yes, every second you delay cb is a second you need to delay flag

[vale pine]

but using cold blood between cooldowns is very rigit, so its better to delay

[hazy breach]

Technically you can use it immediately on a backstab or something but its negligible

And it doesnt line up particularly well with sectechs cooldown

[loud brook]

i see, thx

[hazy breach]

So best is to just use it during blades

[ripe flame]

CB shuriken toss

[steel zinc]

Best thing to do this week is kyveza imo

actually fun challange and best prep for progression

[hazy breach]

Im filling my touching grass qouta

[steel zinc]

Also valid

Kyveza is imo best solo content in years

[swift tinsel]

doing just a couple dungeons/delves every other day, chillin a bit

[lilac stag]

Can we talk double on use trinkets ?

[hazy breach]

No

[swift tinsel]

have you been on vacation the last few weeks or?

[steel zinc]

95% are useless

sad state

[hazy breach]

Yes

[steel zinc]

lilly is just so bad

[swift tinsel]

nicu

[steel zinc]

pvp trinket is better

[lilac stag]

It’s a joke

[hazy breach]

Or well, for 12 days

[swift tinsel]

been good?

[lilac stag]

PvP trinket is our gateway to prism

[hazy breach]

[lilac stag]

Have fun. sub is the pvp spec after all

[swift tinsel]

[loud brook]

we dont have any execute right?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[void ocean]

Cloak

[swift tinsel]

only sin does for rogue

[void ocean]

🤣

[loud brook]

ah im doing a little bit better than my sim lol that might be why

[grand wyvern]

why do wipes reset blades but not flag and trinket, it drives me crazy

[void ocean]

Huh

[hazy breach]

90s cooldowns dont get reset generally

Blades is on there because it used to be 2 min, and they forgot to remove it

[grand wyvern]

ah nvm blizz don't lurk in here

[fallow nimbus]

Everything greater than 1min should reset

[steel zinc]

MOP they got resetted

[fallow nimbus]

Also that sod doesn't reset is a crime

[grand wyvern]

dances reset i think?, i don't see a logic in general

[steel zinc]

yes they do

kyveza doesnt reset flag but everything else

great spec to prog

[warm marlin]

full charge time is over 90s

[fallow nimbus]

I don't know why we can't just have everything reset

[warm marlin]

game sucks

[bleak night]

probably something something acceptable friction

[warm marlin]

At least if boss is pulled earlier this tier your prism will be reset

your 0 stack prism will be usable asap!

[keen monolith]

Why do I see lots of people talking about how bad lily is, but wowhead recommend it as S tier?

[swift tinsel]

its a good stepping stone trinket to prism

[fallow nimbus]

It's bad vs hoc but hoc is old patch and capped at 684 if you got a mythic one

[swift tinsel]

just depends on what gear you're going into the season with

[loud brook]

i know saving coup de grace into big cd is a thing, using black powder and wait etc, but is saving coup de grace into mini cd a thing? like a couple seconds before SoD/symbol/sectech combo?

[swift tinsel]

iirc max ilvl lily is 3% below max ilvl prism

[tepid trellis]

nah

[swift tinsel]

which for some people is a fine alternative if they can't get prism

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[loud brook]

so i can send it as long as there hero talent debuff is up?

[hazy breach]

Holding loses you stacks in general since you can get more stacks with any backstab, and your small bursts aint powerful enough to warrant that

Obv if theres an important set of adds that really need to die asap in 10 seconds you can hold

[keen monolith]

Does prism get used in the opener, or delayed until 2nd shadow blades? I thought it had the downside of not being usable with initial cooldowns because it needed to build up

[hazy breach]

But on a dummy you would not

[loud brook]

make sense, thx

[hazy breach]

You will only have 1 stack on pull yes so its very weak there

[balmy bear]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[keen monolith]

thoughts on pairing it with ritual forge? using ritual forge on pull, then prism with 2nd shadow blades and then ritual forge with 3rd?

[hazy breach]

Worse than using a passive

[keen monolith]

Interesting, thanks. I'll sim based on whatever I can get anyway ha, but good to think through

[hazy breach]

Unless the fight is really short, but at that point you wouldnt play prism

You would just play forge

[keen monolith]

since eveveryone in the world wants forge, I doubt I get a mythic one any time soon

[hazy breach]

Like the passive agi from a passive trinket+90s prism on-use is stronger than forge

[keen monolith]

makes sense

I'll hopefully get an antenna and a prism, seems like they'll be good for Sin as well

[steel zinc]

Because a 684 hoc is still near close to it and they nerfed hoc instead of buffing lilly.

[keen monolith]

684 is better than max ilvl lily? I simmed a 691 lily and it was better than my 684 hoc

[rocky merlin]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

because they nerfed hoc

its still trash lilly

[keen monolith]

Oh I see

[steel zinc]

like 99% of trinkets this season are just bad

and everyone wants now 2nd boss raid trinket forge and prism

passive ones are fine tbh but all just boring

[keen carbon]

guys , but how you set up so many keys on sub?

[wooden kernel]

is there still pandemic for symbols

?

[keen monolith]

!pandemic

[wicked jolt]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[wooden kernel]

ty

[north schooner]

that command doesn't asnwer your question but symbols do pandemic

[keen monolith]

bindings? use shift and ctrl

[keen carbon]

i have 12 button mouse but i still can't get all of it

[nocturne oriole]

I was just thinking…this

[hazy breach]

Pretty sure everybody wants forge and nobody wants prism

[grand wyvern]

ok explain cheat death not resetting on ky veza then

[keen carbon]

[swift tinsel]

what the fuck

[vale pine]

no biggie i take all the prisms then

[nocturne oriole]

This is abysmal

[swift tinsel]

wow

that's..something

[keen monolith]

Works for me

[nocturne oriole]

Still ✌️ my friend. ❤️

[keen carbon]

not even close

[warm marlin]

game sucks

but also why u playing cheat on kyveza

elusiveness op

[bleak night]

plus cheat literally doesnt work anyway

even if it wasnt a choice node with our best defensive possible

[warm marlin]

ye that was my point

[frank path]

start using c,v,t,g then shift modifiers for them

even b

[north schooner]

it worked on one ability can't remember which. Maybe the ghost charges?

[bleak night]

nope definitely not

and even if it did work you'd immediately get executed by her passive

[swift tinsel]

nope massacre kills you right through cheat

[bleak night]

kills through all immunes and cheats

[north schooner]

there was something that procced it and I survived yesterday

[grand wyvern]

kyveza kills you at 10% anyway making cheat useless, still doesnt explain the logic of not resetting it

[swift tinsel]

that was the only mechanic I died to

[bleak night]

kyveza just fucking attacked me while i was at the campfire typing

wtf is this shit

[swift tinsel]

lmao owned

unlocking her now so I can give it a few goes

[bleak night]

i think im probably not good enough to kill her this week lmao

but its fun to bang my head against it anyway

[swift tinsel]

one of our tanks is doing it as vengeance and he's not having a good time lol

[carmine portal]

Lads

Gl on ur kyvezas

God i want that title so bad

[swift tinsel]

same, honestly the coolest one they've ever added imo

when I get it I'm never taking it off

[bleak night]

whats the title

[swift tinsel]

Contract Killer ___

[bleak night]

ah

[swift tinsel]

rogue as fuck

[bleak night]

not bad

[swift tinsel]

so on brand

I must have it

[north schooner]

even if they add Eepy Kitten?

[swift tinsel]

that'll be for my alts 😄

[keen dome]

I'm quite fond of "the Mad"

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's the other one I still wannaget

need to finish getting all the masks

[keen dome]

I used trashmaster since BfA but it's so common now.. Smh

[carmine portal]

Haunt the Mad would be a good one

[swift tinsel]

also why the fuck

is Brann just up and shooting mobs across the room that I haven't pulled and aren't in combat

[carmine portal]

Yeah he's special like that

[swift tinsel]

doing a Sluice and he's shooting mfers across the map

[carmine portal]

He got a new sniper rifle trying it out

[swift tinsel]

he just pulled two of the big kyveza allies packs...

fuck this idiot

[keen dome]

He's helping

[swift tinsel]

can maps drop this week too?

or is that only with season start

[keen carbon]

ok last question , why coup de grace disapper? is it a modifer of eviscerate?

[swift tinsel]

yep

[keen carbon]

ok ty a lot

[swift tinsel]

its basically 3 eviscerates in a trenchcoat

[keen carbon]

nice so 1 keybind less

[wicked urchin]

guildie got a nemesis summon this week so yes

can’t use them this week though obviously though

[weak magnet]

I have it macred but have another keybind for sectech without Cold BLood that I hit in the opener.

[loud brook]

same

i mean not only used in opener other sectech as well, its just the second one within burst press the macro

[frigid prawn]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

okay yeah ?? kyveza fucking owns

[bleak night]

yeah cool fight

i keep dying to not perfectly looking at the clones

[swift tinsel]

just need to lock in a bit more for the dashes and I got it

[bleak night]

spill issue though

[swift tinsel]

yeah same

its when I gotta 180 quick that I'm getting caught out

so yeah krill issue

got to 55% after a few pulls so I'm gonna make it my saturday plans lol

[left topaz]

i'm thinking i might actually be colourblind and that's why i'm struggling lmao - i can't track the moving clones

[clever delta]

actaully same, on the ?? difficulty its too fast for me

i do it like every other try and feel lucky 😄

[left topaz]

ye i was able to do ? but ?? is actually not possible

[graceful rock]

?? Kyveza makes me want like a whole story or raid with bosses like this

[clever delta]

i will give it try tommrow some more and see

[graceful rock]

Like wow combat but Elden Ring

[upper narwhal]

btw for Kyveza turn off anti-aliasing and it will show the current and next dashes with a red outline

makes it way easier

[barren wren]

my brann just stops heal me and it's over after portals

[upper narwhal]

my brann ran into a oneshot portal 4 pulls in a row :/

[swift tinsel]

I just look at the dash streak for the guessing game and not try to follow one as it moves

easier for my eyes to just look at the whole area and track that part of it

[light finch]

on Assa she just bitch slaps me with her white hits

[upper narwhal]

with aa off you can see the current dash and the next dash will glow red, makes it so much easier to react to without having to memorise the entire pattern

[clever delta]

ptr update 💀

[swift tinsel]

yeah the red lines make it way easier for massacre

[viral phoenix]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[swift tinsel]

I'm actually probs gonna turn up the brightness when I go back to fighting her tomorrow lol

[ashen ibex]

Class tuning in 2 minutes

seat your belts

[viral phoenix]

is number 2 talking about shuriken storming in between coup's or does the same apply to storming before first coup press as well if its up?

[swift tinsel]

sub buffs inc

lfg

[ashen ibex]

0 copium

[swift tinsel]

you better not have gotten sin nerfed

[ashen ibex]

me not responsible

[upper narwhal]

Based purely on my favourite warlock content creator, I'm expecting sweeping buffs to lock

[odd egret]

[swift tinsel]

[graceful rock]

Yeah I had to swap to sub bc of verse

[hazy breach]

Sub also has tons on passive damage reduction assa doesnt have

[graceful rock]

This too

[hazy breach]

Without factoring in vers

[ashen ibex]

actually coming?

[swift tinsel]

yeah I feel way safer as sub

[ashen ibex]

aint no way

[graceful rock]

Also running elusiveness is good bc she has the execute mechanic

[upper narwhal]

I just swapped to frost DK lmao it's night and day living the autoattacks

[swift tinsel]

if they're making 4pc not aids with stacks I'll be floored

(def not happenin but)

[hazy breach]

Inbetween coups

[light finch]

Can't you just apply the handbrake on the PTR Damage so that Rogue stays OP for more than two weeks?

[hazy breach]

They mostly balance around raid, and rogue isnt looking particularly powerful there

[clever delta]

thats why they buffed BP again

[hazy breach]

So i dont think we will be seeing nerfs

Not sure about buffs, but probably no nerfs

[clever delta]

realz already whispered me bp buff

[topaz shore]

ptr is def up

[ashen ibex]

Dont worry , rogue meta

[upper narwhal]

another 10% to BP

[weak magnet]

Why does my Macro says "Spell not learned" for Cold Blood. (I got it talented)

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

[hazy breach]

Why would bro do this, just spreading lies on the internet

Smh my head

[clever delta]

unsub angle

[swift tinsel]

Find Weakness still exists, L patch

[ashen ibex]

i got baited by some

manipulation

but listen

he had a point

he said that

and 3mins after

we got ptr update and it opened

so he and me are half crazy

maybe still chances

[clever delta]

xdd

[hazy breach]

Ye the expected time for class tuning would be around now

[clever delta]

when is reset of delves? today was crazy shitty

[hazy breach]

But

[swift tinsel]

the new delve stories are kinda ass

[ashen ibex]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1353517235875876925/1403394274112045136/image.png?ex=68976444&is=689612c4&hm=583b55eb8c2ac014dadc8baccbe832bd7a951e864286e03b45c771ddac9b9270&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=742&height=544

[weak magnet]

Assa nerfs 👀

[ashen ibex]

Some things need change

fr fr

[swift tinsel]

fungal folly one managed to make it go from speedy to pure stinky

[hazy breach]

Theyre gonna tune the second i go to bed

[hazy breach]

Doubtful

[swift tinsel]

nothin in the blue post tracker yet

[clever delta]

when you go, so i set alarm for myslef

[hazy breach]

Ptr seems to be the same as before too so

[swift tinsel]

yeah don't see anything for us at least

[ashen ibex]

ye i checked blade flurry

not nerfed yet in ptr

all good

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tight sequoia]

@ashen ibex buff soontm

Whats nerfed in ptr

[hazy breach]

Literally nothing has changed

[ashen ibex]

soon brfo

just go to sleep and they will be uploaded trust @hazy breach

[hazy breach]

Too busy reading reddit about how "assa can just swap target" and how arcane gaps assa on funnel since assa only does pad aoe

They sure know a lot about rogues on reddit

[bleak night]

[odd egret]

they know best man, swap targets after you dm

[lucid jackal]

Genuinely nobody knows anything

Ppl just be saying words recreationally

[bleak night]

That is my favorite thing to do tbf

[hazy breach]

Ye just make shit up

[bleak night]

W making shit up

[sand flax]

https://tenor.com/view/star-gif-16789607377123159596

[light finch]

Well, Kalamazi knows how it works. Since he started claiming in every video that Warlock needs to be buffed, has Warlock ever been bad since then? Coincidence? I think not.

[wicked urchin]

blame kalamazi for warlocks being strong and blame him again when they get nerfed in a few days

ez

[odd egret]

we just need our content creater rogues to not log runs and completely troll their rotation

[steel zinc]

I cant watch him ngl. Like has no clue what his is talking about and copy paste what his class discord says. Thats like a real paid actor 😄

[wind canopy]

Reading Reddit for reliable info is everyone’s first mistake

[haughty mural]

The sandbag god

[half comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest basin]

Honestly spouting nonsense recreationally is one of my favorite things to do tbh

Anyways back to posting on Reddit about how assa can just swap targets and arcane gaps their funnel since they only do pad aoe

[loud brook]

sole purpose for vanish is just another shadowstrike right? or can i treat it as a small defensive too?

[pastel lark]

any have talents for mplus ?

[steel jolt]

#subtlety-faq

[pastel lark]

i see ty

[tight sequoia]

How hard is it to “ swap targets “

Press tab bro

[serene notch]

TFD working the way it should feels so freaking good

[lucid jackal]

Except when u get to a boss and the timer insta turns off as soon as u get in combat xdd

[steel horizon]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[mighty delta]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tardy drift]

Hi, I'm new to rogue class and I wanted to understand why there is a macro for Shadow Dance and Thistle Tea, if we already have a talent that only uses Thistle Tea.

[jagged rover]

we want the mastery buff from Thistle tea during our dance windows. If your procing it from low energy its probably outside of dances

[tardy drift]

Perfect, thank you for clearing up my doubt.

[alpine wraith]

you can proc it sometimes in dance but very rarely

as SoD already gives energy and you get a lo from finishers

[tardy drift]

At the moment, I only have three macros: Shadow Dance, Tricks of the Trade, and Symbols of Death.

Can you recommend any others that are essential for optimizing gameplay?

[alpine wraith]

what do you have symbols macroed to

that one should not exist

[tardy drift]

One that prevents me from accidentally launching it twice in a row.

[young mural]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[alpine wraith]

ah that one is fine

you can have a cb macro

but apart from those you dont really macro anything

[tardy drift]

#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs

What is the CB macro?

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[quaint orbit]

I thought it was ok to macro tea to my dance should I not be doing that?

[small mantle]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[alpine wraith]

yea dance and tea work together you can use it a little bit more smartly but there is no need

[left ledge]

10% aura buff to sub into best spec in the game

oh wait 10% dont even put us over shadow priest

[wide kernel]

After that chart from earlier are we still bullish on sub for raid?

[wispy bolt]

Haven’t played for months — we any good at aoe / m+ this season?

[round latch]

unless ofc u got a certificate,which doesnt make things alot better,u can talk sht with attitude though

[twilit phoenix]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[rocky ocean]

zzzzzZzzzZzz till Tuesday

[icy tinsel]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hollow spear]

No warlock changes, what world are we living in

[dreamy moat]

Azeroth

[hazy breach]

Feels a bit like they forgot half the changes

But it is what it is

[hollow spear]

Bit of a shame

The usually refrain from making big changes until after rwf

Which basically locks in the overperformers

Curious to see how that messes with their comps

[hazy breach]

But i guess moonkin successfully complained too much

[hollow spear]

They have enough spare time to spam twitter between pressing their two buttons ig

[tight sequoia]

Their 440 sim

Higher then assa whatttt

[hollow spear]

4.40 tho

Like what the helly

Imma change up my sims too for optimal chances at loot

[tight sequoia]

Boomietech

[hollow spear]

"We weren't supposed to statically sim 5 min and 5 targets?"

[tribal blade]

boomy buffs 🙂

big smiles

[warm marlin]

Moonkin rolling up to be meta in keys for yet another season

Fellowship cannot come soon enough

[tight sequoia]

Sont worey guys

[tribal blade]

yeah i don't see a world where boomy isn't good

[tight sequoia]

Ima get a job at blizzard

And nerf boomie to bottom

And buff outlaw rogue to top dps

Gg

[warm marlin]

The crazier part is that unlike some other specs, where you can maybe argue that it is hard to tune them for both keys and raid due to damage profile or whatever

Boomie just keeps having their aoe and st buffed every season

they’re not a cleave spec

You could just nerf starfall until they aren’t meta anymore

[tribal blade]

surely

btw i'm watching whispyr's fatebound video to prep in case i need to play it

this talk of coins is making me lose my mind

it's literally just TL;DR do the burst rotation correctly and the spec plays itself right

you just press your buttons in the exact order and you're gucci?

[prime glen]

hmmm

"Since our secondary stats are stronger per-point than our primary stat, you should be eating secondary stat food at all times, either Beledar's Bounty Icon Beledar's Bounty, Outsider's Provisions Icon Outsider's Provisions, Jester's Board Icon Jester's Board, Empress' Farewell Icon Empress' Farewell personal food, or the The Sushi Special Icon The Sushi Special Feast. They are all identical."

[steel zinc]

It's an afk hero talent

[prime glen]

is this true? secondary stats are stronger than primary stats? i was using feasts always

[steel zinc]

Just do opener correct that's it

[tribal blade]

nice

[tribal blade]

tight

[prime glen]

might have to go to personal

[steel zinc]

Sim it and it's irrelevant.

It's like 4k dps

[prime glen]

4k is 4k, ill taaake it

is that true in general tho about secondary stat vs primary

[tribal blade]

we're at the point where secondaries are better than main stat

[prime glen]

i didnt know they were that strong

ah

[tribal blade]

nah it's just once you have enough main stat on your gear

[prime glen]

true

end of expansion i guess

[tribal blade]

it loses value over secondaries

[steel zinc]

Pretty much dk wl Aug alle are busted. Rogue is mid except some fights might be very good. Like fire was last tier in sims very mid and you played lots of them

[tribal blade]

yeah i wouldn't doom this early yet

things are gonna be changing at a very rapid pace soon

[keen dome]

We're gonna be good in raid and it'll be fine. big blast

Ain't no reason to doom, imo

[tribal blade]

just pray we don't get the same thing as last time where blizz just left us at the bottom

[prime glen]

i noticed mastery over vers, as well. is that also an end of expansion DR thing

[tribal blade]

no idea, prob because of the new tier maybe

[steel zinc]

Bro if boomkins were the state of rogue they would outcry

[tribal blade]

new tier is lots more finisher dmg from flawless stacks and extra coups

[keen dome]

Yeah but they're boomkins

[tribal blade]

if we could somehow get a bigger playerbase

[prime glen]

ah

[dreamy moat]

Yes unlike being in other states

[tribal blade]

then we could complain en masse

[keen dome]

I keep telling people to play rogue but they stop talking to me

[steel zinc]

Yes because rogue isn't braindead spec

[tribal blade]

heehee

[keen dome]

I do wonder if there's gonna be something in that big empty area of the map on K'aresh..

[hazy breach]

Just dont get haste on your gear and its all fine

[steel zinc]

Like I still we get an actual rework with animation and everything in midnight. Like we had in legion.

[keen dome]

We don't need a full rework, so that makes it more likely, imo. Just.. get rid of the shitty ndoes nobody likes. FW. Fix Shadow finishers or change it. And then give us some ky'veza love.

Put dark brew near the top instead of FW. Theme us around SHADOWY COOLNESS (blueberry flavour)

[tribal blade]

i think rogue is overdue for the shammy treatment

[keen dome]

I'm expecting Midnight to go hard on Paladins for every race

Orc Paladins

[steel zinc]

How come?

[keen dome]

Undead Paladins

[keen dome]

Light v Void expansion

[steel zinc]

I am full void

[tribal blade]

light is so boring

let me be dark and edgy

[keen dome]

And I still expect the hero talent change to be something like "You have Light / Void nodes that change how the abilities work!"

Nimble flurry now does holy damage, that's it, that's the light node

[tribal blade]

oh god are we getting hero talents in midnight

not again

please

i can't deal with another DS

[keen dome]

nah, they're just not going away

[tribal blade]

oh really?

[keen dome]

No chance they delete hero talents

[tribal blade]

i honestly want them to go away

i'm done with em

[keen dome]

They go away, monkey paw curls, they bake DS itno Sub's tree as they think that's the Sub tree spec.

[dry plank]

Bhahaha

That would be brutal ahaha

[carmine portal]

The problem is no other class has hero talents as balanced and good as Holy Priest- it has huge talent variety in the spec tree and both hero talents are hugely viable for every state of play. Yes one can be omega optimized (oracle) but so can archon with the CD extension build

Every class needs to be as balanced and have as much vairiety as hpriest does currently

Balanced meaning both hero talents being good choices

[neon walrus]

I hope everyone is having fun!

[dry plank]

I expect no changes to rogue in midnight so get surprised if they do any

[neon walrus]

Does anyone know why I"m getting taken out of stealth the second my tank pulls?

[keen dome]

What dagger are you using

[half comet]

!fuu

[neon walrus]

boss, random pack

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[neon walrus]

why would that matter? but i'll send photos?

[keen dome]

Okay, it's not the dagger that pulls you out of stealth constantly

[warm marlin]

Are you in the rookery and took the buff during the jump down

[dry plank]

Feet picture kek

[neon walrus]

rofl yea i saw i left that in XD

[tribal blade]

when i realized that was a thing i very purposefully stopped trying to hit the birds on the way down

[keen dome]

Can you show us your whole gear? Might help narrow it down 'cos it's quite nebulous right now.

[half comet]

is there any optimization in mplus like the rotten to apply FW

[neon walrus]

it feeels like it's just an AOE that goes out randomly

[keen dome]

Also comp in the group where it's happening. Does it happen outside the groups?

[half comet]

ik we dont take it anymore

[neon walrus]

dont report my name pls

[keen dome]

No items that could be pulling you outta stealth..

[neon walrus]

idk I've just noticed it with this group in the last hour

BM monk, havoc, resto sham, mm hunter

[tribal blade]

signet notlikethis

[neon walrus]

welllll api just came out right?

[keen dome]

signet is bad for sub 'cos it's a 2 minute trinket and we're a 1:30 spec

[neon walrus]

I can use this but then no on-use and the house of cards is only 655

[tribal blade]

HoC will be way better

trust

losing 10 ilvls on trink to have HoC equipped will be worth it

[keen dome]

100%

Legit not sure what could be pulling you outta stealth though. maybe a trinket interaction on another player or monk passive doing it again, who knows.

[neon walrus]

idk why i just didn't want to use it - i make decisions too quickly -.-

also pre casual player atm / first week of season

[tribal blade]

it's all good! try to sim next time

[neon walrus]

idk, hopefully it changs but fml it's so annoying lol

couldn't we not sim until recently?

[tribal blade]

the robot will tell you the truth always

[neon walrus]

haha

[honest basin]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

If in doubt about trinkets, just ask here too, someone will help

[neon walrus]

I get scared asking discord questions, which is fair

[keen dome]

This discord is very good about helping people

[neon walrus]

i should #simit more

[keen dome]

ye

Simming stuff is always the best first place to figure out if number betterer.

But for Sub, outside of very rare excetpions, we'll always want a trinket to align to your burst window every 1:30

[neon walrus]

is there even a 1.5 min cd on use this season?

[keen dome]

Lily in Dome, which is just a Better HoC.

[neon walrus]

can't see many on-uses on the wowhead trinket list in general

[keen dome]

I think we're just using Prism though

[neon walrus]

ooOOoo i seee - I've yet to do that, so, fingers crossed!

[tribal blade]

we have more options next season

[neon walrus]

prism looks overtuned so yeah

[keen dome]

In midnight???

[tribal blade]

oh this season i guess haha

[neon walrus]

How do you know that? 🤔

[keen dome]

Nah nah you've let it slip, he's in the alpha

drop the dish on rogue changes: do we have a poison toggle

[tribal blade]

sorry can't tell you what's happening in the future

[keen dome]

damn

[neon walrus]

HE KNOWS

[keen dome]

I mean you could we both know it's "no"

[neon walrus]

HE IS A PROPHET

[keen dome]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/bis-gear Scroll down to 'Trinkets' (BiS lists aren't useful. Trinket lists are very useful) for a guide look at the good chocies we've got this season. If you've not already, that is.

[neon walrus]

nah yeah cheers i'm already looking at it

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[neon walrus]

looks like dome trinket is the way

[keen dome]

ye, dome for now if you can. It's basically HoC But Better

[steel zinc]

Pvp trinket is bis early on

Wowhead doesn't allow for pvp trinkets

[keen dome]

Ye, which is silly. Once season hits, you can farm 700 conquest and buy the Badge trinket from the pvp vendor

It's a 1 miunte cooldown with crit on it, and has a 17k agi proc at 701. We play it like a 1:30

[neon walrus]

17k agi? 😮

[keen dome]

700 conquest can be farmed via war crates in warmode, or just by playing pvp.

It's superduper quick and very effective as an early trinket

[tribal blade]

is forge actually worth it

does it give such a ridiculous amount of main stat where it's actually alright to use as a 3 min

[keen dome]

I assume you pair it with prism

[tribal blade]

oh right

so use on pull, then prism on 2nd cd set

[keen dome]

Yeah, that's my immediate thought

[tribal blade]

ok yeah i remember reading about this

[still quartz]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[steel zinc]

pvp trinket is better then forge

at same itemlevel early on

[keen dome]

Makes sense

[rocky ocean]

Is wowhead anti pvp or something?

[hazy breach]

No

You just play it as your on-use

Prism+forge is not good

It sims bad and even if you want to argue you cant sim m+ you often end up holding cds a bit in m+ anyway so with that double on-use you just lose so much whenever that happen

[half comet]

anything to play arund for perforated veins or is it just taken for death perception

[hazy breach]

Forget it exists

Its the worst talent in the entire tree

[half comet]

what i like to hear

havent looked at the sub tree in a while forgot we have shurikens can slow or speed you up

and free cheap shot

hahaha

[hazy breach]

Like if you manually disable the talent in simc you wont even notice

Because 50% dmg on every 5th backstab is not valuable

[rocky ocean]

It should be 30000% on every tenth

[hazy breach]

It would still be a pretty bad talent if the 50% was active at all times for all builders

[indigo drift]

I've not played any pvp since BFA, so I assume the warcrates are just the same as they were back then?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[keen dome]

Huh, good to know. Thanks for the correction

Sad, though. Would've been cool to alternate

[clear laurel]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[hazy breach]

Tons of people will play it anyway

And theres nothing i can do about it, just like in dragonflight

[keen dome]

[hazy breach]

On shorter fights later on we might play forge though

[keen dome]

Late in the season I bet it'll go real hard

[hazy breach]

Theres some specific fight timings where you dont lose casts by holding 90s for forge

In those cases forge is really good

(like 2:30, 4:30)

[keen dome]

I'm curious about the amp in Dimensius's final phase and what might end up being used there. Just seeing how much damage people can optimize to slam into the 200% amp.

[hazy breach]

Its 100%

Got changed iirc

[keen dome]

Nooo

My big amp!! My big burst!!!

tier ruined

[obtuse shard]

Hey guys, for some reasons, my macro cold blood + secret technique doesnt work anymore

any have the same issue?

it just wont use cold blood anymore

/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique

[keen dome]

Were you playing Fatebound Assa? That'll bug it.

[obtuse shard]

oh I see

yeah

how to fix it?

[keen dome]

I think just relogging.

[obtuse shard]

okay thank you

[clever delta]

how is the pvp trinket called

i wanna sim it

[lofty lance]

astral gladiator's badge of ferocity

[clever delta]

thank you

bigger for assa than sub hehe

do we do the pvp crates again

or how you get it now

[keen dome]

Yes, same as always.

PvP crates or do PvP. 700 conquest, blast it out on reset when it's available.

[short radish]

anyone getting it where their TFD sometimes needs 11 seconds out of stealth?

this was like 9 or 10 seconds when it first started

[keen dome]

It's a waltz.

I've not seen that though, weird

[short radish]

might have something to do with cancelling dance early with a TFD active

[vale pine]

double on use just gives a sense of control, it is why it will likely be used by many

good morning lovely people, how was your day so far?

[hazy breach]

Its 12s in pvp

[short radish]

ahhhh

[short radish]

had some xiao long bao for lunch so pretty good

[vale pine]

that sound great

[mint swift]

Right what bugs is sub plagued with so fair this patch

[vale pine]

oh, khadgar was promoted to "boss"

[keen dome]

Nice

Happy for him

[vale pine]

nothing severe, the one thing we would like to have changed is secret technique being soft capped on 8 instead of 5

[mint swift]

Oh wow

Only one meh bug?
Think that’s a new record for bliz

[keen dome]

So far

[vale pine]

we have bugs, but nothing impacting gameplay

deathstalker still has the bug with mark

the relevant bugs are typically the ones which cause annoying gameplay or other issues

[brisk onyx]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shy ermine]

Do we still have coup shadowcraft resets on each tick of damage?

That could be annoying with more casts

[limpid sage]

yup

[shy ermine]

Unlucky

[limpid sage]

donno what the haste breakpoint is, but I've found that you can actually fit in a generator before the last hit sometimes

so at least you don't have to worry about it in lust

[rocky ocean]

nice

[hazy breach]

Haste has literally no impact on globals as energy classes

The global is 1s regardless

And coups gcd is 1.2s for some reason

[rapid forum]

What does this mean, can you explain?

[steel zinc]

What itemlevel?

[torpid silo]

how big is sub's burst this season ? compared to other specs for example ?

[rapid forum]

Yes

[hazy breach]

Coup does damage when you cast, 0.4s later and 1s later

[torpid silo]

does that mean a lot ? xd

[hazy breach]

All of these damage instances can proc shadowcraft

[rapid forum]

Yes, good burst

[rapid forum]

Ty

[torpid silo]

more than..... unholy ?

[hazy breach]

Outside of bl absolutely

[rapid forum]

Ye

[hazy breach]

During bl similar

[rapid forum]

Uh wins with pi I think

[hazy breach]

If you go by the simc stacked chart sub obviously doesnt do too well, but especially with prism sub cant do its full potential burst in the opener

[sand flax]

!bp

[hazy breach]

If you cheat and add all the buffs you would have access to later on in the fight (prism stacks, coup, sht ) its reasonably close to unholy

[hollow spear]

Sub on amps 🍆

[long sun]

erm

if i have one global left in my dance and im at 5 cp with a gun to my head what button am i pressing

[hazy breach]

Everytime ive asked mr robot its always said strike

But intuitively it feels like it should be evis

[long sun]

trick question u actually need to press crimson vial bc ur healers dont heal u

but ok ty ya felt weird striking again

but prob super minor diff either way

[lofty lance]

i would press slice and dice

[long sun]

holy ban this guy

[lofty lance]

;D

[hazy breach]

With unseen blade that strike does good damage, but we cant really tell when we have that up so its

[short radish]

yeah im also pressing evis

difference probably rounds down to 0 anyway

[long sun]

i like doing my rotation in aoe between unseen blade's icd and sometimes just ripping a backstab bc i think i've gotten a proc based on vibes

[half comet]

we fuu page used to have how much % raid buffs benefit us right

[alpine wraith]

yea very likely that over 100000 it might be better to get that random unseen

but caveman brain will evis

[hazy breach]

Ye and then once in a while youll do it but its not ready

And you feel like a clown

[long sun]

yo wait surely there's a way u could like map out the liklihood that you've gotten a proc after some amount of time

[hazy breach]

Yes

[long sun]

like after 10s there's a 50% liklihood u have a proc

[hazy breach]

But its still random

[long sun]

shroedinger's unseen blade

do u have the proc or not

[wraith sphinx]

It's so unseen even we don't know where it is

[alpine wraith]

yea kinda have to hate it they just dont give any indicator

[hazy breach]

Now with tier youll sometimes find 2 cats in the box too

[alpine wraith]

yea like sometimes you will be like okay stab double oh nice

stab double proc

oh nice

wait

[half comet]

!fu

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

looks at dance cd hmm ok time to hold

stab double proc

oh cm on

[half comet]

the dslice sim doesnt take replicating shadows?

how bad is rupture if thats the case lol

[alpine wraith]

i do recommend replicating and tfd

even if it sims a bit less but it is quite comfy

[half comet]

over tornado and and planned execution?

[alpine wraith]

over finality

[hollow fox]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[wraith sphinx]

god remember when tornado wasn't used (s2)

those were the days

I remember it like it was a week ago

[rocky ocean]

hc 6/6 lily and champ 8/8 badge

[haughty mural]

Then don’t use tornado

[steel zinc]

nice so again pvp trinket is just better and doesnt cost mythic crests

[rocky ocean]

world if badge had 90s cd

[keen dome]

Well it has 1 minute so it's basically 90s

[short radish]

tell that to my boss

[keen dome]

Gimme his email and I'll tell him

[short radish]

[e-mail]

[fleet wharf]

Does the PVP trinket drop at 701 ilvl?

[torpid silo]

do you have to land on the supercharged combo point for it to have effect ?

[keen dome]

Nah, 1/8 Champ

681

[keen dome]

nope, not anymore

[fleet wharf]

oh ok, so you just lvl using carved or whatever it's called up to 701 before raid?

[torpid silo]

ty !

[keen dome]

You jsut consume it in your next finisher

[keen dome]

I assume so unless they've changed it. last season it was 1/8 Champ, same as all pvp stuff

you can go check the vendor right now for the S2 stuff

[stoic reef]

Wait you use nado for m+ this season?

[torpid silo]

and do we cold blood coup de grace or is ST better ?

[stoic reef]

Wasnt the nadon't build better

[rocky ocean]

it would have bigger stat budget on active

[keen dome]

true

[fleet wharf]

go read the wowhead guide. BUt you CB the 2nd Sec Tech during blades, and you only CB Sec Techs. Better to just use CB as a 1.5 min cd

[small crag]

Anyone know why this build would sim so bad?

[haughty mural]

No flag

For instance

Don’t need to look any further

[small crag]

Flag adds 259% damage you think?

[north schooner]

if you have this kind of questions, you always link your sim

[haughty mural]

Yea link your sim please

[short radish]

simc isnt optimized to work without flag

and it probably breaks

[vale pine]

deathstalker

trickster is better and you missed flag

[short radish]

sub TCers have been paid off by big flags to unoptmize any builds without flag

wake up sheeples

youve all been played like fools

[small crag]

I'll have to wait to see what other people are running in pvp then

Was just trying to make a pvp build

Once the season starts, I will be able to look them up

[short radish]

#pvp

[haughty mural]

Pve =//= pvp

[small crag]

yeah I followed the guide haha

I'll just wait

[short radish]

oh yeah

you cant really sim for pvp lol

[fleet wharf]

I dont think you win pvp by doing a lil more damage anyway

[small crag]

oh if that's all it is then that works for me

[haughty mural]

Id recommend you check in the pvp channel

Those guys in there know what’s up

[small crag]

ok thanks

[short radish]

they also know whats down

and what's right

[haughty mural]

We don’t

[short radish]

but not what's left

[haughty mural]

(Atleast I don’t have a clue)

[short radish]

does anyone of us truly have a clue

what is a clue but just another question

[haughty mural]

Okay Confucius

That was kinda deep

[short radish]

[haughty mural]

Maybe that’s the mantra of sub devs

[torpid silo]

how do you track the cooldown/stacks of unseen blade

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[short radish]

uhhh

should be somewhere in LE's pack

[fleet wharf]

it's kind of hard to track, you use one of the WA packages

[torpid silo]

(the stacks is easy, but idk the cd xd)

[torpid silo]

oh..... okay

sad

thanks

[vale pine]

think le's pack has some form of tracking, but its in gneral messy

[still quartz]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[magic ruin]

We are BP on lower target counts this season, and at the same time not playing rotten for find weakness. Why is that when BP usage has increased?

[spice matrix]

BP got buffed

[magic ruin]

ye exactly, would think that rotten value would increase then?

[vale pine]

we will run with more crit

and tier set will make us cast storm during cooldowns too

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

2nd optimization

this is somewhat funny

[peak jetty]

I have been discussing a lot with my guild whether to play assa or sub this season. Momentarily I think of playing assa in m+ because I have more experience on it and it seems kinda broken tbh. In raid context I wanna start as sub trickster and play two or three bosses on assa to min max the fights. What are your thoughts on that kind of min-maxing? Really hoped I could just spam sub but it seems to not be optimal ^^

[vale pine]

assassiantion is just easier to perform on in m+, so if m+ is your main content its the best option

[peak jetty]

That's what I thought but I don't really have a main content. Playing 15ish keys and 4-6 mythic bosses a season. Rather average try hard with medium skill ^^

[lilac stag]

In general if you’re looking for guidance now, it won’t matter. Play what you’re most comfortable in and start min maxing as needed. Until the fights are seen and we have data everything is just speculation. Do you need to move cds around? Sub. Can you funnel adds with execute? Assa. Not all that deep from a raid perspective.

[keen dome]

Yeah, they're a fun addition

the bloodstains, that is

[hazy breach]

A lot of the apl is tied to Flagellation and its cooldown. So altering the apl to also work without flag makes the code insanely more complicated as of now

And when i checked the best noflag build was still ~16% behind

[short radish]

Play what you enjoy. Unless you are top 20 the differences in min/maxxing damage won't matter whether you kill teh boss

[hazy breach]

So i decided its not worth it

[short radish]

Sounds like exactly what someone who was paid off by big flag would say.

they're sandbagging on purpose

Perforated Veins my beloved

[haughty mural]

Learned from
Kalamazi

[short radish]

true

im surprised their sims arent sandbagged this tier

[hazy breach]

Bro is ombudsman for the no-flag-federation

[short radish]

or maybe this is sandbagged sims and theyre even stronger than what they are now

[keen dome]

omsubsman

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dumm-gif-21398394

[peak jetty]

As of know I enjoy the variety. I will stick with both to start with and go where the data is leading.

Ty for all the helpful discussions. Really appreciate the community 🙂

[haughty mural]

You never know with them until they top raid charts

[hazy breach]

Gotta utilize one of the few words english has actually borrowed from swedish when given the opportunity

[short radish]

oh didn't know ombudsman was sweedish in origin

[lilac stag]

Our next sub rogue dev folks

[vale pine]

you can blame me for it tho if you want

[torpid silo]

when we have flawless form, do we evis instead of black powder in 8- pulls ?

[torpid silo]

do you not play around it then ? Just always tornado between the coups de grace ?

[plush roost]

Theres actually a hidden tech where if you untalent flag and take ⚠️ Warning Signs ⚠️ your black powder gets a 100% damage increase. Trust me its true, I was the powder.

[lilac stag]

sir this is a gloomblade channel

[fleet wharf]

only tornado between 4p coup while you're in blade cds. pretty sure you strike when you're not in cds between coups