subtlety

[swift tinsel]

yeah, you'd macro to dance

[hazy breach]

Ignore, macro it to dance

[vale pine]

you would need to spend days to gather data, analyze them and then present them in a quick understandable way

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

^ you can use this macro if you do the bs in dance optimization

[chrome palm]

If db build is viable this season it will change my perception of sub tree to some degree

[vale pine]

and even then (from my experience), you are not guranteed to have a somewhat balanced out discussion

[swift tinsel]

it is the internet after all lol

[vale pine]

you can shadowcraft -> DB

[swift tinsel]

the idea behind DB is higher baseline/overall damage and lower burst, right?

[mystic bough]

kk ty

[chrome palm]

I tried this a lot on ptr and liked it for big aoe

[vale pine]

best case would be aoe heavy dungeons

so absolutely

[chrome palm]

Felt quite good on halls

[mystic bough]

Does the macro work if I remove the bs line? I usually do it manually as I've engraved it in my head to press bs

[chrome palm]

It bursts higher than shadow craft but it just feels like you’re playing in s1 df

[vale pine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

^ you can just use the first macro from this one instead then

[mystic bough]

Àlright tyvm ^^

[vale pine]

df s1/2 was quite a lot more spammy

[chrome palm]

I guess another nice thing with this build is being less skyfury reliant

[swift tinsel]

is it just the trickster m+ build with the shadowcraft point in db?

[alpine wraith]

with db you go without shadowcraft you mean

it is a more aoe heavy build

although beware without a shaman it gets rough

[chrome palm]

But no craft means less value from shaman

Sht no longer exists for cds

[placid elk]

does it matter what socket i pick here? are they hard to get?

[alpine wraith]

you want to use the tailoring one

that gives mastery anyway

so it is whatever

[vale pine]

no

[karmic raft]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[vale pine]

you can buy them for 100g off the vendor

so even if you pick the wrong one its 100g to switch

but pick mastery

^ i made a note in the pin about it too

[placid elk]

got it, thanks

[noble stirrup]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[steel zinc]

for its margin of error 8k worse (didnt sim haste)

[vale pine]

lets see

[warm marlin]

vers simmed slightly higher for my profile but i doubt it matters

[vale pine]

give me a sec

diffrence between vers/crit/mastery is within error margins

only haste is slightly lower

[alpine wraith]

also remember to put somewhere that the tailoring one is way stronger

so people dont forget

[placid elk]

i guess you can't take them out, only replace them like normal gems.

they are not shards of domination

[hidden spade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[silent ruin]

Why was gear compare deprecated

[hazy breach]

Top gear does the same thing but better

[silent ruin]

Ok

[astral axle]

use this for anything you do not have which you want to compare

[silent ruin]

Where does one find this

[steel jolt]

Top of top gear

[silent ruin]

Ok thanks

[steel zinc]

You can take them out

you craft them once and just hotswap them

[astral axle]

but ya between that and droptimizer you should be bing chillin

[alpine wraith]

you can take them out

just left click them

[placid elk]

oh so its so ez, they made me buy that 2500k ash item back in shadowlands to take shards out

[stable plume]

Hey there! WowHead and IcyVeins have different recommended M+ talent trees. Which do you guys think is better and why?

[alpine wraith]

m+ talents can change quite a bit depending on what you want to do

[stable plume]

New to sub so just want to practice the M+ rotation, usually just do 10's for vault. Is there a difference in rotation between the two?

[hazy breach]

No

[next bone]

What do we have as a “raid buff”, the venom that makes enemies do less damage? Or is the tooltip wrong and is only less damage to us?

[stable plume]

atrophic poison

stacks too so multiple rogues give more dr

[next bone]

Do you know if it stacks multi or additive?

[opaque valve]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stable plume]

multiplicative so you like 10 rogue would only be 96.4% to the 10th power, not 36%

[next bone]

Yeah that would be busted

Thanks!

[stable plume]

i mean it's still 30% dr for 10 rogues

just not 36%

[zealous hedge]

We skip thse

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

Does anyone know if 2pc 2pc is the play or we go from 4pc to 4pc?

[swift tinsel]

Get new 2pc asap

[plush roost]

Its that good bet bet

[warm marlin]

Old 4set is 13% combined, new 2set is 10% alone + ilvl diff

[swift tinsel]

isn't the new 2pc worth as much as the old 4pc lol

[warm marlin]

New set just goated

[swift tinsel]

ah was close

[plush roost]

Yeah i cant find the % values of tier sets cause im dumb

[warm marlin]

Even at equal ilvl (684) when I simmed it new 2pc was like 2-3% gain

[plush roost]

Alright we prayge our delve vault holds tier this week

[swift tinsel]

pray for hero track non-shoulder tier

if we get catalyst week 1 of raid that would be stellar

oh hell yeah we do lol

[solemn lance]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[bleak night]

Yeah will be a charge week 1 then another with aotc

4p insta prayge

[swift tinsel]

our guild won't see aotc for a few weeks lol

[bleak night]

It'll take mine a couple too

Pvp for cata charge instead

[swift tinsel]

think it took a full month of 4hrs a week raiding to get it last tier, but we also did 1 day of normal for tier slots for people too during the first two or three weeks of heroic

[lilac stag]

Charge at 2k io still no?

[bleak night]

something like that yeah

[zenith hollow]

what ilvl is the pvp badge at?

[swift tinsel]

704 champ track

2k io, 1600 pvp rating and aotc iirc for charge

should be able to get 2k in no time

[fallow nimbus]

i thought we use tfd in st now but the pinned st build still has wm

[maiden hamlet]

Longer fights will favor WM

[fallow nimbus]

and no replicating for m+?

[maiden hamlet]

Afaik, replicating should be in m+ builds, very good

[vale pine]

can switch between replicating/tornado depending on dungeon

[fallow nimbus]

tornado can take a hint and leave the game

[lyric cargo]

A quick question we playing ST now as core ? If so when is it used best ? During cds or after them or just as filler ? Thanks a lot

[clever delta]

apparently this is 1% upgrade over delve waist

how is it even possible

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nQHb7d4TtJuzTZeHKfiXis

[spice matrix]

Did raidbots bug and give you the wrong belt disc?

[swift tinsel]

Zoinks

[clever delta]

yes

you are right

it gave me haste for some reason

[spice matrix]

Gg

[warm marlin]

what is that ring cuh

[alpine wraith]

tfd should be better even in st now tho

but with new 4p

[clever delta]

this trinket

actually sim same as pacemaker

(At 701)

[fallow nimbus]

that tea returns

[clever delta]

is it just dmg proc or sim interact with orbs?

[fallow nimbus]

yes

no

maybe

[swift tinsel]

Quick sim and check buffs

Should tell you if it’s grabbing orbs

[gaunt bluff]

sorry if this is confirmed somewhere else but do i not use ss if no flawless form outside of cds?

[clever delta]

yeah it have buff uptime

fuck that

[vale pine]

you use backstab

to get flawless form up

[swift tinsel]

Idk I kinda ignore flawless form in aoe outside dance

[gaunt bluff]

even in huge aoe?

[vale pine]

storm does not trigger ub

[hushed falcon]

So are we thinking sub is going to bethe go to in raid?

[swift tinsel]

I’m just storming and rupture/kidneying

[vale pine]

so you kinda do

but you should have it up most of the time

so it makes no real diffrence in output

[gaunt bluff]

i see

[vale pine]

especially because all of our damage is in cooldowns

and we have flawless form during them

[fallow nimbus]

man why is pv still so useless?

[vale pine]

it was reworked when they introduced it

BUT

not in a meaningful way which made sense for subtlies design

(introduced means used for the talent tree rework)

[fallow nimbus]

oh no your 5th builder is a backstab again, here 50% buffed

[vale pine]

so it was never good, and subtlety often keeps thse bad decisions around for long time

unlike other specs or classes

[gaunt bluff]

how do you best sim for M+ for sub too? is dslice good or do i do patchwerk x dummies

[fallow nimbus]

this new m+ build looks kinda suspect with pv tornado and tea, ngl

[plush roost]

Hes on early tech ⚠️ Warning Signs⚠️ meta soon

One of these days...

[alpine wraith]

everyone in case you dont know the epic chests from weekly things can have coffer key fragments

[warm marlin]

[alpine wraith]

so do them all

even after capping the 4 keys

[hazy breach]

More coups means more damage that isnt sectech, so tea is relatively better

[warm marlin]

are delve keys even meaningful when all the delve trinkets kind of suck and bountiful delves unlock at the same time as m+ that just drops better gear

[hazy breach]

Since cb is exclusively used on sectech its tied to its power

[fossil imp]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

I just kinda use them for Runed crests early on

[gaunt bluff]

chat may i have some help

🥹

[alpine wraith]

they fill gear quite nicely

[swift tinsel]

Also crest cap is noticeable this early on so I get to be annoyed by that again lol

[alpine wraith]

but yea now even with the vendor that sells the champ vers

they are not super op

still speedrunning champ void trink seems nice

[hazy breach]

Dslice is fine

[swift tinsel]

Wait there’s a champ selling vendor

What is this devilry

[lilac stag]

The what?

[haughty mural]

So cb stays ahead without set

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter

Its not massive differences either way

If you like cb, stick with it

[haughty mural]

Was just trying out some m0 and rotten and felt better

But I have not much crit yet

[stable plume]

Do we have any Heroic Delve Trinkets that are BiS? Or is farming delves after this week a waste of time?

[hazy breach]

Well the vault gives hc items

[gaunt bluff]

691 ring sims worse than this one

gonna have to keep this shit for my entire life

[hazy breach]

But no trinkets are particularly impactful no

[dusk stone]

how does TFD work this patch, is it still the same clock + distance = counter starts

[glacial hinge]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Once you leave combat its a 6 second countdown yes

[regal ingot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[dusk stone]

sorry, i meant cloak. What you use to be able to do was vanish + go around 15 meters from the mob and the timer starts is that still a thing or what. All the patch notes listed was that it was more reliable

[hazy breach]

If you leave combat and sit for 6 seconds youll get tfd

[flat cliff]

@fervent carbon here is the sub discussion

[remote shuttle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hazy breach]

So If you vanish and leave combat while mobs are up youll get it

But on bosses you cant leave combat so it doesnt work

[gaunt bluff]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[dusk stone]

seems like its the old rules, what changed then? just that when you leave combat the timer is legitimately consistent?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[dusk stone]

seems like were eating good this patch ig

are we good in m+ all i see is mixed stuff

[astral axle]

are you planning to do 17-20s in the next couple of weeks?

if not play w/e

[silent ruin]

is assa simming lot closer to sub this patch ?

[haughty widget]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

It’s likely ahead depending on your gear

caustic setup was even for me with “ST” sub setup

[stark zealot]

Yo whats up! I havent looked at sub since end of Season 1. i hope its chilling

[night sparrow]

Yo is going mastery > crit good to play sub + sin ?

[warm marlin]

ideally get a nice vers/mast ring and a nice haste/crit ring and swap them as you go between sub/sin but otherwise sounds fine ye

[night sparrow]

haste is good this season for sin ?

[bleak night]

for bleed

in keys

[warm marlin]

maybe less good with fatebound but generally sin likes a little bit of haste in raid while sub wants 0%

[oblique knot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[night sparrow]

ok ok ty

[silent ruin]

With black powder buff , what's break even target count on trickser

[swift tinsel]

4 for BP

[silent ruin]

With flawless up, right?

[night sparrow]

BP looks not impacteful at all

feels bad

[swift tinsel]

Technically 3 FW

[night sparrow]

sound design is a fart

[swift tinsel]

Pretty sure flawless doesn’t really matter that much outside dance

In aoe you’re cycling in and out of it faster

[oblique knot]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[warm marlin]

without flawless up you always bp unless its pure st

[stoic pier]

what is the talent tree yall are using for m0 currently? The one from last season with rotten or with finality and shuriken tornado? Im seeing this two on the run

[silent ruin]

I start poking then for it

[warm marlin]

ya but sometimes u dont proc

unlucky

[sand flax]

hey @vale pine is there any weakaura that track the number of findweakness & display if we press Evis or BP ? the actual weakaura in !wa is not working

[stoic pier]

What are the talents tree being used for 11.2? I've seen some differences between the guides.

[fierce wigeon]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[stoic pier]

!talents

[silent ruin]

The lingering darkness fix for deathstalker sub, was that a bug for pvp too?

[elfin vigil]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[uncut grove]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lucid jackal]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lilac stag]

What’s not working? @swift tinsel

[swift tinsel]

I can check when I get home, I haven’t updated it for the new patch yet

[sand flax]

The weakaura display flawless form icon, while the buff is not even applied

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, that’s to tell you it’s missing

You can delete that condition if you don’t want it

Figured it doesn’t pay to show Evisc at below-BP threshold if it isn’t gonna cleave

[sand flax]

Does tha wa knows when BP or evis ? I mean does it have a target tracker ?

[lilac stag]

it tracks FW

it should be in the description of it

when the conditions for BP are met is shows BP

Target count meant for Trickster Subtlety in AoE. Shows the number of enemies with the Find Weakness debuff. At 4 and fewer targets it shows the Eviscerate icon, and either at 5+ targets with the debuff or you're missing the Flawless Form buff, the Black Powder icon with a pixel glow.

it'll get updated with new conditions once season starts most likely, or he remembers

[fluid moth]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[swift tinsel]

Yep, it checks how many find weakness debuffs are out and tells you whether to evisc (if flawless form is up, otherwise it shows the flawless form icon) or black powder

[lilac stag]

i mean i dont know how much more clear the description can be

likely didnt read it

[swift tinsel]

I think fuu has one that just tracks targets in range in general but those tend to be a bit more cpu-taxing

[lilac stag]

yeah but they cited yours as the issue

so

and it's doing what it's supposed to

[fluid moth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

Pebkac

[swift tinsel]

updated aura

[rapid torrent]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[silent ruin]

Top gear keeps saying - requires at least two combinations?

[lilac stag]

have you selected something different, and if it gems and enchants do you have it allowing the sim to replace existing gems and enchants?

[silent ruin]

I wanted to sim against the lily trinket, so only selected that

In the item search option

[lilac stag]

you need at least 3 trinkets

[silent ruin]

As in

[swift tinsel]

the number 3

can't compare one pair of trinkets with itself

[lilac stag]

basic comprehension is rough here lately

[silent ruin]

Ah that

[swift tinsel]

what trinkets are you simming total

[rotund urchin]

some subtlety rogue youtuber

[silent ruin]

You're right I put house of cards in bank

So if I put hoc on character n sim it should work right

[swift tinsel]

as long as you have a trinket in the other slot

and add lily as a third

[lilac stag]

as long as you select it and 2 other trinekts

[silent ruin]

Yes yes

I miss gear version:D already

[lilac stag]

i'm going to assume that's some classic shit

[silent ruin]

So I've equipped my old patch gear, n in item search I put lilly, so there trinkets are involved - house of cards, seaforium, n lily(in bag) ; it still says top gear requires at least two combinations

[lilac stag]

this is a troll right?

[silent ruin]

No, serious

Sry, really asking

[lilac stag]

click on 3 items your two equipped trinkets and lily

click sim

[silent ruin]

What do you mean by click on 3 items, click where?

[fallow nimbus]

In simc on the website

[lilac stag]

under trinkets in the equipment

it only takes up 2/3 of the screen 🙂

[tepid trellis]

like that

[lilac stag]

um I don't see Lily

[fallow nimbus]

684 pacemaker, so last season

[silent ruin]

I see, ok thanks!!

[silent ruin]

It works now

[tepid trellis]

get fcked

[lilac stag]

don't taunt the racoon

[fallow nimbus]

Why not 691?

[tepid trellis]

havent bothered upgrading them

cuz i did m0s earlier then insta logged off again

to play lost ark

[lilac stag]

I dont even want to do m0

7 ilvls on a trinket. whoopie

vault shrug

[silent ruin]

So everytime I sim for a gear compare I got to click 3 trinket? How does this work exactly

[fallow nimbus]

My neck upgrade was 10 ilvls

[lilac stag]

just click the items you want to compare

you're either way over thinking this or look up a youtube video on Raidbots

[tepid trellis]

the sim does a combination of the items selected with up to like 16mill combos if you have premium

[silent ruin]

I see

Ok will play around, thanks

[fallow nimbus]

He probably has no premium at all

[lilac stag]

you dont need premium to click on 1 unequipped item

the way the site works is not landing

[fallow nimbus]

Just click every piece you want to compare until the iteration number at the bottom becomes red then deselect 1 item

[outer elm]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[silent ruin]

Also, now that I have somewhat a hang of it, pushing up item level of lily created another instance of lily , which I manually deleted (the lower gear score one)

[fallow nimbus]

Just unclick it

[silent ruin]

Ya, but just saying

[dusk stone]

I'm looking at the wowhead article for 11.2 and the m+ build is recommending I take thistle tea now?

[tepid trellis]

yup

[lilac stag]

https://youtu.be/X7jqVUneY28?si=EsfF70iewJrXiiiQ

[dusk stone]

What changed? Is mastery uncapped more now or what

[lilac stag]

sectech dmg is lower (tier). it's basically a wash with current tier

[tepid trellis]

less dmg from sectech

more dmg on other finishers

[dusk stone]

But cb for raid right

[lilac stag]

people will like enjoy extra energy

yes raid is still CB

[dusk stone]

Ik I loved tea build last season, it was sadge I couldn't play it

[lilac stag]

you could have

[dusk stone]

Yeah but should I have, you could feel the dps loss in a low tuned season for us

Damn sub really is gonna feel good this season

[lilac stag]

feels are feels.

it's still going to be behind assa so

[dusk stone]

Are the tier lists dogwater atm with calling us B tier for m+

[lilac stag]

tier lists are always bullshit

[dusk stone]

Yeah ofc but how far from the truth is it, the patch notes seem very good

[lilac stag]

if you like sub, and like tea play it

the patch notes are... empty

[pale aurora]

But in this moment is better sub or assa?

[tepid trellis]

Assa

[lilac stag]

assa

[pale aurora]

Ty guys

[lilac stag]

the shifting to more env dmg made it even stronger lol

[tepid trellis]

when it comes to the raid tho

[lilac stag]

though that channel will deny

[tepid trellis]

i dont think assa is gonna be better for prog on the later bosses

[lilac stag]

subs gonna get a bigger leap early on from tier

[tepid trellis]

Sub is gonna go absolutely crazy on the amps

(if they matter)

[lilac stag]

by the time most people get there, i think assa gonna be common as per normal

(waits for guy to show up)

[tepid trellis]

very likely

or they get a 6% buff week 5

[lilac stag]

i think you'll be swapping between fate and sub, but that's just a hunch

[tepid trellis]

that is what i think as well

[lilac stag]

i think most will be swapping between fate and ds just on assa

as the tier goes on

[dusk stone]

On a scale of 1 to 10 how good is sub speculated to be

[lilac stag]

-6

[lilac stag]

how is this any different than a tier list

lol

[dusk stone]

Fuus article says veterans are going to be happy with it

[lilac stag]

it;s the same as s2, a little more cdr

[dusk stone]

Because you actually know what a sub rogue is

[lilac stag]

gameplay is 99% the same

extra coup gets more cdr and more rng

we all love more rng

meanwhile assa got actual spec / hero tree improvements

[short radish]

yeah we just got some aura buffs and bonus to our beloved black powder

[lilac stag]

need more BP buffs

[tepid trellis]

in raid, id prolly say middle of the pack

[next stump]

With UB and its interaction with eviscerate do yall ever press BP?

[swift tinsel]

I don't but that's a religious observation

[warm marlin]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lilac stag]

was watching our FDK last night on Gally dominate boss dmg, while still going nuts on adds. I was jealous

[next stump]

THink the wowhead guide i read said to use it as aoe

[warm marlin]

better to not finish than use bp

[tepid trellis]

u bp on 4 targets

and thats it

[young crypt]

is it worth farming conquest this week, or is it going to reset?

[next stump]

you cant

[serene notch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lilac stag]

likely resets

it's "offseason"

[next stump]

Cq doesnt drop this week

[lilac stag]

it does

[young crypt]

its been dropping for me

[next stump]

whatever s2 stuff you had will turn to gold

[swift tinsel]

they haven't wiped the s2 yet

[young crypt]

so its going to reset

[next stump]

Idk i have been getting honour which is weird

[dusk stone]

So it's like an upper-minor improvement to last season more or less

[swift tinsel]

honor doesn't reset

[next stump]

yea that i know

but i havent been getting cq from wins

my tab still shows 150

[lilac stag]

turn your quests in

you get conq

[next stump]

free gold

[lilac stag]

not free

you're pvping

fuck that

[next stump]

Shit idk whens the last time i picked up the weekly quest

[tepid trellis]

its just the same

[lilac stag]

the only difference is the cope for damage amp phases in raid

like when warriors cope for execute

then bliz sends a boss out with no execute

[iron plover]

in m+ for you guys, is nimble flurry double the damage of sectech?

am i doing something horribly wrong LOL

[young crypt]

just wait until we get 4 set

[tepid trellis]

it should prolly do more depending on the dungeon with the s2 tierset

[lilac stag]

just pretend you're an outlaw rogue with cds

[iron plover]

sadge

[lilac stag]

yeah. the outlaws love it. the subs are kinda irritated by it

bring back combo please

[iron plover]

ah is the s2 tierset the one from raid?

does it give a lot of damage?

[tepid trellis]

s2 is the one from the old raid, that is like 6 months old at this point

s3 which we can start getting next week

[short radish]

surely with the existance of arcane and enhance

combo isnt broken

[tepid trellis]

shift alot of dmg into evis/coup which means nimble goes higher up in dmg as well

[lilac stag]

• assa

[short radish]

[tepid trellis]

was about to say like

Assa smokes

them

on funnel

[lilac stag]

dont believe the propaganda in that channel

[sullen hare]

I'd rather believe the propaganda here

[lilac stag]

assa's funnel is rediculous

[bleak night]

where are you seeing propaganda that assa doesnt have funnel lmao

[lilac stag]

they down play everything and anything

well some do I’m there.

[iron plover]

ah got it

i just came back after a few hours, you think its worth it to farm the S2 set?

[tepid trellis]

dont quote me on this but i think you can pretty much insta get it at the catalyst

atleast it used to be like this

[iron plover]

it as in the S2 set?

[tepid trellis]

yeh they are still there

[iron plover]

ah... catalyst

i need to research that

thats not the spark of starlight right

[tepid trellis]

its right next to it

[iron plover]

got it! il ltake a look

thanks for answering the dumb questions!

[graceful terrace]

are we back to the shuriken black powder spam?

just did a AraKara and my BP was top dmg

[tepid trellis]

if u by spam mean pressing at 4 targets or more

then yes

[short radish]

is it 4targets with FW up?

or just 4target

[gilded ferry]

stealthi

[swift tinsel]

just 4 targets

easiest to remember

[gilded ferry]

u think that the wf rogues are playing sub to conceal any pick? heard that and i honestly do not know how it would work

[cyan perch]

ayo m0s went well boiz

[bleak night]

nice

[iron plover]

hmm, i cant seem to find it, only the season 3 catalyst stuff

[tepid trellis]

iirc you need to use it on a season 2 item

[iron plover]

ahhh got it

hmmm

is it worth lol

my numbers will likely be pretty shit without any set bonus

[tepid trellis]

its like 15% dmg over not having a tierset at all

[iron plover]

o o f

shit

is it the same tier set? S2 and S3?

[tepid trellis]

nope

[iron plover]

ahhhh not worth

[tepid trellis]

well its not like you can use the old season 2 items you have anyway

and they use different catalyst charges as well

[iron plover]

ah yea thats true as well

man starting from scratch is a bit rough

thank you for the advice!

[lilac stag]

@tepid trellis I dont have your luck

[patent moss]

hey anyone know why i cant cast tricks of the trade

i have to upgraded in aswell

to the 1 hour

using quazi ui

[lilac stag]

do you have it talented?

[patent moss]

yes

in the rogue tree and trickster tree

[sullen hare]

Was your target mounted?

[patent moss]

no in dungeon rnits not working

[lilac stag]

you click the tank, click tricks and what does it do?

[tepid trellis]

press it, hit something so it procs then the 1hour duration should show

[patent moss]

nothing

if i dont click tank and click it my mouse goes blue

but whe niclick tank nothing

[sullen hare]

Sounds like a ui issue

[lilac stag]

disable Elvui

[patent moss]

im using quazi one with out elvui

[sullen hare]

Does it work with all add-ons disabled?

[patent moss]

i want to try but dont wan tot fk everything up havent played in ages

[lilac stag]

idk tricks works, so it's either a bad ui, bad macro, or just needs a reset

[sullen hare]

The neat part is you can re enable them one at a time to find out

It usually requires a ui reload but you can

[patent moss]

fk

bout to go no addons just the few i need

[wicked bear]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[patent moss]

weird that button lockation is what wasnt working

[weary cedar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[young mural]

anyone has already crafted dagger?

is it worth?

[tepid trellis]

no reason to really

might aswell just wait until you can get max ilvl

[young mural]

what ilvl is it w/ carved?

[tepid trellis]

90smth

[young mural]

meh

ill hold spark then

have i fucked up? I spent all my carved on these upgrades 😖

[tepid trellis]

nah carved is fine to spent to my knowledge

[young mural]

yhea, afaik we're not gonna have uses for it next week so i might be good

ty for the help stealthi invigorating shadowdust timer GOAT

[swift tinsel]

Weathered and carved are freebies

Save runed/gilded

[shell willow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[drifting fable]

did they get rid of the belt sims in raidbots

like i cant sim the other options

[stoic pier]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[young mural]

ty hap hap

[young mural]

seems to be working for me

[drifting fable]

ah

i didnt see that

i swear it was at the bottom

[lilac stag]

belt was drop down. I think the corruptions were at the bottom

I haven’t even looked for the cloak fibers haha

Just tossed mastery in and said fuck it

[drifting fable]

fibers are also at the bottom

[young mural]

dude i swear to god how poor am i

i cant be this poor

[lilac stag]

Simming Weekly & being poor.

https://tenor.com/view/ha-ha-point-homer-simpson-simpsons-nelson-muntz-gif-16163203

but yeah don’t sim weekly, use latest.

[young mural]

damn

i will use latest sorry scath

[novel marlin]

Perhaps your tank was using a Neuro Silencer. That prevents tricks being cast on that target.

[young mural]

Kinda got max luck roll here for week one

and btw, are we supposed to use old ST build until we get new tier?

or should i just play new without rotten?

i would sim myself if i wasnt poor

[patent moss]

where did that drop in

[young mural]

new m0 dungeon, on last boss

[patent moss]

691 ?

does it drop different rangse the heroic dungeons

[young mural]

dropped at base ilvl, which is 681 iirc

it dropped champion 1/8

[idle aurora]

We black powdering in m+?

[young mural]

yhea a lot, you should BP on 4+ targets

[civic swallow]

Are we unable to simm? Not letting me get the copy data in-game

[young mural]

probably a addon issue, try updating everything

simulationcraft addon and raidbots are both working for me

[civic swallow]

Weird, Sim craft isn't even in my list of add-ons anymore

Nor do I see it on Curse Forge

[tropic isle]

is it safe to macro symbols into dance? i still have symbols bound separatley but you've never dancing without symbols right?

[young mural]

you generally dont want to do that because during sub's cooldown sequence, you need to dance again before pressing your 2nd symbols

or else you will lose your supercharger stacks on eviscerates/black powders and you want to use them to empower your secret technique

[tropic isle]

ah i see okay i'll kep them separate ty

[young mural]

np 😄 good luck out there

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[short radish]

!dance

!symbols

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[young mural]

rip command?

[short radish]

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```

[short radish]

hmmm

shouldnt that have the command sequence on the /tea usage

[young mural]

try spamming tea

it just doesnt let you

idk i havent spent tea charges on accident i think

[short radish]

kk

[tropic isle]

I have the lily trinket, better to macro it into blades and not flag?

[young mural]

exactly

[chrome palm]

blades

[young mural]

you want to send trinket with blades to get 2 secret techniques while you still have trinket buff

exactly

they end up lining up if youre using a 1min 30sec trinket

[lapis hatch]

It’s a 1 min 30 trink that lines up with shadow blades?

Wym

[young mural]

no, lily is a 1min 30sec trinket

so you just macro it to your shadow blades and forget it exists

[strange chasm]

Are we still pretty down bad? I seem to be the lowest simming in guild at 685 rn

[young mural]

YES 😂

we're pretty bad on ST sims

[short radish]

nah we're looking firmly middle of the pack

so we can expect to be nerf'd week 2 once we craft our weapon and jump to the top of the list

and then end up below augvoker again

[young mural]

nice season 2 stats there buddyy

[strange chasm]

Yeah sorry S2 stats are irrelevant

[short radish]

blizzard nerfed us last time because of them

[strange chasm]

A lot of classes got some pretty crazy changes

[young mural]

no, they nerfed us based on PTR numbers

[vagrant fulcrum]

I don’t remember any sub nerfs this tier

[young mural]

thats because they happened before tier even started

[strange chasm]

Yeah got handicapped before fun

[short radish]

we got nerf'd week -1

[vagrant fulcrum]

Well that was tierset tuning and they did compensate somewhat

[tepid trellis]

no

[short radish]

no

[tepid trellis]

they nerfed sectech

[short radish]

do not gaslamp us

[vagrant fulcrum]

Wait

Ohhhh

I was like a 5/10% nerf right

[young mural]

these are S3 sims @strange chasm

[tepid trellis]

6% if i remember correctly

[vagrant fulcrum]

I do remember this

No fucking way they nerfed sub man

[short radish]

after buffs btw

[strange chasm]

Hmm doesn't seem good for us. This is after buffs right? Damn

[vagrant fulcrum]

Fucking kyveza trink got sub nerfed unironically

No other explanation for it

[short radish]

turns out when you start off the season having your BiS trinket and crafted myth track weapon

you are really really strong

BUT THEN ALSO TURNS OUT YOUVE BASICALLY HIT 80% OF YOUR POWERSPIKE

[tepid trellis]

we got nerfed before that even happened

[vagrant fulcrum]

Well, it was a bit worse than myth hoc in earlier sims

[tepid trellis]

im like 80% sure that the nerf was because of the performance they saw in keys

[strange chasm]

Are people leaning more towards sub or sin for raid

[tepid trellis]

and data they got from bosses being like 2min long during prepatch

[vagrant fulcrum]

I always have issues knowing when something is op or just bugged in testing

[tepid trellis]

so they gave sub an emergency slap on the wrists

[young mural]

yhea i was under this impression too, they literally fucked sub based on PTR numbers and had to buff us 2 months into season

tooez being a sub rogue

[tepid trellis]

it was later than 2 months lmfao

[rocky ocean]

[tepid trellis]

bro they left us for dead

[vagrant fulcrum]

Idk, just feels like Blizz would rather we play sin

[strange chasm]

Gally was already dead

[tepid trellis]

for 80% of the tier

[vagrant fulcrum]

Almost always better tuned than sub

[tepid trellis]

eh

usually on tier launches its not

[strange chasm]

Keys sub is competing with sin or sin is just in its own tier?

[tepid trellis]

midtier yeah

[short radish]

im playing sub unless i get a gun put to my head saying i have to play sin

[tepid trellis]

cuz they keep buffing assa midtier

[young mural]

they want us to play mage tbh

[tepid trellis]

like Assa got its buffs this tier after i already got done with the tier as an example

[vagrant fulcrum]

Yep but without fail they make sin get buffed on like week 3 every single tier without fail except s3 df where the reverse happened and sin started strong and ate nerfs after which it was a sub tier

[tepid trellis]

and assa was not good before that

outside of mug'zee

[rocky ocean]

nerf sec tech and buff black powder

[young mural]

yhea sub and sin were very meh in raid last season

[vagrant fulcrum]

Tbf I do think my views of sin prebuff are coloured by the fact I was beating my corogue as sin prenerf

[tepid trellis]

Assa got buffed like 7 weeks into the tier iirc

[steel sierra]

How are some people nearly renown 9 already? I have a contract, did all treasures, rares, but only 2k into 7

[fleet trench]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[young mural]

rep exploits, darkmoon rep buff and rep contract

[fleet trench]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vagrant fulcrum]

Earlier, it got buffed when fire ate its first 3% nerf

I think it was v soon after race

Like weeks 2-4

[serene palm]

!sim

[tepid trellis]

week 3 apparently i looked it up

[young mural]

stealth man the king of invigorating shadowdust

what guild do you play for?

[tepid trellis]

myst

[young mural]

59th nice fckin work

[tepid trellis]

i didn't do undermine with them

i was in colour

[vagrant fulcrum]

I remember when you were in colour ye

[tepid trellis]

for undermine but we disbanded after we killed gally

[vagrant fulcrum]

is jarlen still there

ah rip

[tepid trellis]

he quit wow

he plays osrs and some mop classic i think

[vagrant fulcrum]

shame you guys really had something going with some of the speedkills in abberus

[tepid trellis]

im more annoyed at the fact that i need to do splits now

[young mural]

damn

[tepid trellis]

we were the only ones at that ranking not doing them

so i basically stayed at the same WR

now just with 2 more hours of raiding a week and 1 split

[young mural]

hahahah

[tepid trellis]

like quite literally

[lofty kraken]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[steel zinc]

So mirror rogue?

1 split?

[young mural]

yhea i saw that, literally 1 rank

pretty pog

[tepid trellis]

nah, i have a shaman

[young mural]

hope you guys get world 30th this time

[tepid trellis]

prolly not lol

need more raid time for that i fear

[young mural]

lol you gotta be optimistic!!

[steel zinc]

At some point u need time and gear to actually progress.

[tepid trellis]

mostly just time

[steel zinc]

Yeah

[tepid trellis]

only raiding 3 days

is not good for world ranks

[steel zinc]

4 I assume first week for splits

[young mural]

oh wow

[bleak night]

great for sanity though

[young mural]

you guys raid 3 days and get 58th

[tepid trellis]

nope

[young mural]

thats crazy

old guild raided 4 days a week and got fucking 800 or something 😭

[steel zinc]

That's just well room for improvement

I think anybody raiding single digit hours and get better then world 500 is a gamer

Like 9 hours two days

[young mural]

yhea, old guild was really bad

im in a new core, re-starting this season and only raiding 2 days a week

lets see how it goes

[steel zinc]

95% of it is how the guild culture is in regards to preparing

[daring marlin]

My guild is dog water tier, should i care

[young mural]

Yhea, im feeling kinda good about new guild

people actually getting ready and no slackers

[short radish]

2 day raiding is peak culture

with mandatory optional extra day at the start of tier

[steel zinc]

Raid prep is like knowing what can wipe u first hc, and then prepare the mythic mechanic on how far your guild comes in the first 2 weeks so max until ftactilus. The rest doesn't matter.

[young mural]

exactly my guild

[steel zinc]

That's pretty standard. People are hyped wanna game

[short radish]

ye

[steel zinc]

At some post depending on the wall you extend also as 2 day guild

[warm marlin]

We have added one “optional” extra day this tier as well

[short radish]

yeah you extend a lot earlier as 2day

[steel zinc]

I think we extended after bandit kill

[short radish]

same

[steel zinc]

So probably extend this tier after nexus latest

[bleak night]

we extended after sprocket

[warm marlin]

Damn that’s crazy we extended after stix

[steel zinc]

Holy that's nuts

[short radish]

tbh

not doing stix over and over again

sounds kinda comfy

[warm marlin]

The ball incident

[short radish]

the ball incidents*

[bleak night]

oh actually we extended after stix too lmao

i wiped that shit from my mind

[short radish]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/933386399279878154/1347570769441329202/watermark.gif

[bleak night]

ball incidents + i was on boomkin

[warm marlin]

I think we wiped more to stix on farm than any other boss

[bleak night]

[short radish]

for us its still sprocket

we have actual terrorists

[young mural]

lmao terrorists

[warm marlin]

Actually I think we wiped more to stix on farm than mugzee+gally combined

that boss was a terror

[tepid trellis]

Extended after bandit

[short radish]

bro look at this

this is not the only occurance this has happened

[young mural]

LMAO

no fucking way he rescued

[short radish]

i think it was hover

not rescue

[young mural]

lmao

rescue might've saved his own life

youre right

[short radish]

yeah

he did that as well on the 4min big scary beam magnet bit as well last week

[bleak night]

this shit

[tepid trellis]

This was peak tho

[bleak night]

every intermission

[tepid trellis]

Dead in less than 1 night

[short radish]

holy shit 42 pulls? i thought we were balling

[bleak night]

i get fucking kamikaze bombed by a hover from downtown

[young mural]

yhea thats a terrorist.

[short radish]

its always teh aug

[vale pine]

I don't know, i just use my number aura and bp on 4+

[young mural]

greatest raid tier ever tbh

[tepid trellis]

It fuckin sucked

[young mural]

same

[tepid trellis]

Bosses were too easy

[short radish]

yet you still have this

[young mural]

dude mug being way harder than gally is so bad

[bleak night]

looks like my guild

[short radish]

[young mural]

bandit arguably also harder than gally

[drifting fable]

did u change guild

[vale pine]

unlucky

tho you got some luck in your world tour

so there is that at least

[rocky ocean]

You know what’s worse than doing splits

Doing split in a guild that killed gally 2 weeks before end of season

[vale pine]

is that a thing?

🙈

[fringe geyser]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rocky ocean]

apparently yes, people are really bad on russian realms

[vale pine]

unlucky

[young mural]

who do you raid with fuu?

which guild

[vale pine]

i raid in my gf's guild, its not very hardcore so no top world rank

[bleak night]

wr 1809 and proud

[young mural]

aw makes sense

[daring raptor]

Am i the only one simming less now after the new patch ?

[neon walrus]

Just be greatful you're raiding with her and not watching Rupauls drag race and baddies Caribbean

[vale pine]

i have no idea what both of that is

[vale pine]

thats possible because:

• Head enchant did get dissabled
• HoC got nerfed

so even tho we got a small baseline buff, you might need to find a replacement trinket for hoc

[alpine wraith]

the finality simc implementation too

[young mural]

HACHA

[haughty mural]

Finality

[alpine wraith]

yo man

[haughty mural]

[young mural]

do we play rotten on ST until new tier?

[daring raptor]

what

?

and is it worth to run the tea build now

[alpine wraith]

nah we dont really play rotten unless it is in M+

[daring raptor]

feels so bad in keys

[alpine wraith]

not really you just macro it to dance

just beware to not proc it

by spamming

[daring raptor]

yes exactly

JESUS

please

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[daring raptor]

remove that

so bad

[alpine wraith]

idk who though that was a good idea tbh

[young mural]

oh my bad, i meant finality

[daring raptor]

but is the tea build really that much better than the roten?

haven

haven't simmed it myself

[young mural]

do we still take finality until next tierset?

[alpine wraith]

well it was already almost equal now after the bug was implemented

so you kinda can play any of those

after new tier tho the PE one gets ahead quite a bit

[young mural]

ah perfect

[young mural]

yhea I imagined, finality loses value with double coup

ill be playing planned execution already idc

@vale pine will you add tierset sims to sheet?

[short radish]

tbh i was half expecting to see transmitter somehow be valued > HoC

[young mural]

differences between 2pc/2pc, new 4pc etc

[vale pine]

^

[young mural]

but no bonus

is = to old 4pc?

[vale pine]

no its no bonus

XD

[young mural]

[vale pine]

old one was 12-13%

[young mural]

ah perfect

then ill just replace 4pc with 2pc and dont really worry about it

[warm marlin]

2/2 was around 2.5% for my profile at same ilvl

pretty safe to insta replace whenever

[young mural]

yhea

perfect, ty for help people

[vale pine]

keep in mind

new tier will have higher item level

and 2p2p should already beat the old 4p

when both old pieces are 12% or so combined

[haughty mural]

Even more worth to insta replace with higher Ilvl from new tier

[vale pine]

and the new 2p alone is 10%

[haughty mural]

Oh well

You were faster

[warm marlin]

yea was just showing no matter what ilvl its insta replace angle

[vale pine]

👍

[haughty mural]

Love it

[young mural]

the greatest class discord out there..

[sweet cypress]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[young mural]

is tea a considerable upgrade on M+?

i really dont want to watch my energy...

[vale pine]

you don't need to

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

^ you just do this

or

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

that

(first macro)

[young mural]

what about

[vale pine]

and forget tea exists

[young mural]

the auto activation part

[vale pine]

does not matter as much

[young mural]

alrighty

ill do that then

[vale pine]

i kinda wish we had lower energy costs on storm

but tea has more baseline energy

so there is that

[young mural]

that 10% extra energy regen'

[vale pine]

vigor also increases your maximum energy

so you have 200 instead of 100

[young mural]

yhea

[daring marlin]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1402339140078665841/Dark_v2_1.jpg

[bleak night]

new shadow clone visual dropped

[vale pine]

looks quite good

[keen dome]

spooky

[bleak night]

it just stares at me after i die to something dumb

although i dont think ?? is possible anyway with how hard these autos are hurting

[vale pine]

i have not tried it

but its free on some classes, especially those who can cheese it

[bleak night]

they got rid of the spell reflect cheese

[vale pine]

oh

[bleak night]

and are taking away rewards from people who used it

[young mural]

I heard about warriors just reflecting the insta kill mechanic and winning

[vale pine]

yep

[bleak night]

so afaik only tanks have beaten it legitly

[vale pine]

i would expect there are still some problems

e.g. i remember a low geared shadow priest could solo it last tier

because the fight had item level scaling

[bleak night]

yeah im sure there are more cheeses to be found

[vale pine]

means boss would die slow, but also the shadow would never rly lose health

so was more a test of patience

[scenic oxide]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any Unseen Blade procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[stiff stirrup]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bleak night]

its a very fun fight though

on ??

[keen dome]

I'm excited to try it

[bleak night]

way better than zekvir or underpin

[keen dome]

Love me ky'veza

[vale pine]

underpin was ... boring

[keen dome]

Underpin was worse than boring. It was inconsistent

[vale pine]

haha

adds randomly spawning in narnia

[bleak night]

i liked the fact that as long as you did the mechanic you wouldnt just get geared checked by auto attacks

[keen dome]

Random variance due to kicking balls at small men is not fun

[bleak night]

but they definitely did not execute on that mechanic well at all

[vale pine]

https://tenor.com/view/live-your-dreams-eyeofshe-travel-adventure-dream-gif-19928105

[keen dome]

I say this after doing it in 2 attempts and Brann getting stuck in a wall but

[vale pine]

^ me trying to reach the add

[young mural]

lol

swear i cant take it no more these premium users cutting the queue

[vale pine]

this was already the thing in s1

[bleak night]

well s1 zekvir hard gear checked you

[vale pine]

19 is not a bad number tbh

[bleak night]

until later on

[vale pine]

thats actually fairly small

[young mural]

Yhea

[vale pine]

i need to seach up

[young mural]

lets see next tuesday lmao

[vale pine]

but i had numbers go up to 3k+

trying to sim during patches

and i had 200+ before me

even with premium

[young mural]

wtf