subtlety

[winged phoenix]

Not a single line

[delicate current]

Deserved

[valid yoke]

did that just come out?

[warm depot]

does anyone know

if i can evasion the mythic gallywix cones

in p2

[valid ocean]

go away

[delicate current]

Don't send me back to the litter box

[valid ocean]

1rogue guild

jk read this discord and tell me what to play thanks

[delicate current]

Destro lock

[graceful crown]

yeah the final patch notes are on

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-11-2-ghosts-of-karesh-official-patch-notes-377966

[fluid moth]

Is the 1st coup still buffed instead of the 2nd one?

[hazy breach]

No

But it still doesnt work with Shadowed finishers so its more like 30% rather than 50%

[fluid moth]

But it does work with the 5 extra flawless form stacks from the first coup?

[hazy breach]

Well ye

But we are supercharging the first coup most of the time, so its kinda whatever/neutral for them to change it

Probably slightly better as the second, but not a big diff

[warm marlin]

@hazy breach

got ur wish

prism stacks to 3mins now

[swift tinsel]

those crazy bastards did it

[warm marlin]

20 stacks woulda been cool to have some room to overflow if holding or whatever but ah well

[delicate current]

Oh shit big 3 min trinket?

Stonks?

[warm marlin]

pacemaker also giving 100 more crit at 723 as it does on live at 684

not sure it needed that

[alpine wraith]

damn that is so big

[lilac stag]

Did the nerf forge yet?

[warm marlin]

ye forge hit too

i cant remember how much it gave before but its just over 40k primary now

i think it was like 44 or 45?

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/x3-gif-24301743

[swift tinsel]

45

[alpine wraith]

ok i will go to sleep then check again

[hazy breach]

Is that 723

Of prism

[bleak night]

netherprism buffed 2m trinket nerfed

sub stonks holy

[warm marlin]

yes

66k primary sounds like a lot

[alpine wraith]

it is a truckton

[hazy breach]

Wasnt it 3.8k before

I could be misremembering

[swift tinsel]

sec

[warm marlin]

i think its the same stat

[swift tinsel]

it is

[hazy breach]

Ait im just silly

[swift tinsel]

little surprised they didn't cut the stat a bit

[hazy breach]

Almost nobody wanted it

Most wanted 2 min one

[lilac stag]

I think everyone but sub wanted the 2 min

[hazy breach]

Only reason sub doesnt is because we dont care about BL on pull, it was really close for sub too

[warm marlin]

did pacemaker really deserve this though

[tribal blade]

"The only problem is you're still playing a rogue, you still don't have a raid buff and you're still a melee. So, unlucky."- Yoda

[warm marlin]

rip the goat

[hazy breach]

The execute one from raid was simming basically the same

So ig we just get that

[lilac stag]

Describing Sub.

and outlaw if I remember

Assa got a pass for dmg

[spice matrix]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[tribal blade]

yeah sin is prob gonna do really good overall now

[lilac stag]

Um that’s an understatement if casual’s stream was any indication

enjoy another season of assa

[random comet]

Ok 🙃

[short radish]

yeah a raider just dropped "So assi is popping off on the ptr now?"

actual despair moment

[bleak night]

[short radish]

wait but which hero talent

fatebound or ds

if its fatebound

maybe being red isnt so bad

[lilac stag]

Fate going to be ST or maybe where you have swaps and don’t care about losing add dmg

DS still in keys

[warm marlin]

@hazy breach sigil also apparently buffed

we executing

and prism did also get its passive damage buffed

[lilac stag]

House and Eye nerfs hahah

[delicate current]

I'm surprised sigil got buffed

[warm marlin]

really reinforcing how optional the dh boss is

[delicate current]

Very optional

[lilac stag]

new spec soonTM

[delicate current]

Meaningful choice in fact

[lilac stag]

Kekw all of the sudden assa is fun.

love me number / meta chasers

[bleak night]

big number = fun of course

[shut ridge]

it's okay assa nerf week one surely

then we will be there

waiting

[steel jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/ricky-bobby-gif-3478694

[teal prawn]

With toes wide open

[shut ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/creed-higher-superbowl-cowboys-gif-21936168

[steady dune]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[delicate current]

do people not like assa?

idk I just picked the spec up for the first time since bfa like this week lol

[steady dune]

I find its extremely boring

[lilac stag]

People except rogues don’t like rogue, unless it’s doing stupid dmg

[bleak night]

Most rogues don't even like rogue they're just trapped here

[steady dune]

They need to give rogues a raid buff or smokebomb back

[mellow hedge]

i wish DFA and smoke bomb came back to pve

[steady dune]

we bring atropic poison but it often doesnt apply to a lot of abilities since they are considered environmental damage

[fleet wharf]

Yea why did they take smokebomb from us and give it to DHs?

[short radish]

because DHs steal everything

[steady dune]

blizz hates rogue

[fleet wharf]

guys, let me be in denial a bit longer sheesh

[steady dune]

Someone on the design team got ganked in classic and never forgot

[fleet wharf]

How long did we have mop smokebomb for?

[short radish]

give us +3% crit raid buff or something

they can call it Honor Amongst Thieves

[fleet wharf]

Did you watch the blizz interview with the Bench that came out recently? I liked how they want to find a more interesting niche for each class than just giving everyone a 60 min raidbuff

[short radish]

i did not

[fleet wharf]

the interview is only like 30 min, worth listening to

[short radish]

i would also like them to just give us a fucking buff

[fleet wharf]

lot of non-answers, but some were pretty interesting

[short radish]

either make everyone equal

[warm marlin]

certainly they could just give everyone a 60 minute raidbuff while they figure out how to make the niche dream happen

[short radish]

or remove everything

so we're still all equal

[fleet wharf]

we do have a raidbuff, it's atrophic poison

[fleet wharf]

I think the only problem with that approach is people will throw a fucking fit when you take it away

[steady dune]

they need to make every raidbuff just an aura

fuck this rebuffing meta-game, adds nothing to the game

[tribal blade]

agreed

this season was really bad with raid buffs in keys

if you don't bring a raid buff it was a lot harder to get into groups

[fleet wharf]

I feel iron wire baseline for rogues would get us into M+, no?

[warm marlin]

sure but why should certain classes rot in purgatory while they figure it out (or just remove them all outside raid instances)

[short radish]

who cares about m+

[bleak night]

[short radish]

just give us an actual functional raidbuff

that people care about

[steady dune]

crit is good

what happens if you have over 100% crit? Do you get super crit?

[tribal blade]

rogue used to have a crit buff iirc

[short radish]

yeah we did

[warm marlin]

rogue also used to have the dh raid buff

[short radish]

or it was proc on crit

[fleet wharf]

We also had magic dam amp too in cata, no?

well that was assa only ig

[short radish]

tricks used to also give damage amp

[tribal blade]

would rather they replace atrophic with a dmg buff

because nobody cares about DR

[warm marlin]

yep

it can still be poison themed but being dr sucks

[short radish]

i keep beating this dead horse, but the fact that atrophic stacks and no one brings more than one rogue shows how useless of a raidbuff it is

[warm marlin]

especially being a worse version of the other dr only raid buff

[steady dune]

tricks trading the good ol days

[chrome palm]

prism buff and forge nerf

[tribal blade]

YUP lol

[chrome palm]

bigly

[short radish]

like that liquid or echo hasn't found some ultra cheese by stacking 4 rogues

and dropping a healer

[fleet wharf]

RWF guilds know it stacks right?

[mellow hedge]

wow that would be sick!!!! it has a nice ring to it and fits the class well

i think tricks should give dmg amp like PI 🙂

[short radish]

they have to

[fleet wharf]

I mean the atonement thing stacked, but only got patched out when RWF teams were gonna run 2 discs

[steady dune]

1hr tricks trading with another rogue

[mellow hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/apes-together-strong-0p1sf-gif-20906166

[fleet wharf]

I feel this tier it might get patched out if they end up running 2 rogues

is 2 sub rogues even a possibility?

[warm marlin]

they did take our parry buff

[short radish]

yeah but they'd only run 2 rogues if for some reason

rogue damage stronk

[fleet wharf]

dunno how we stack up compared to the rest of the field, I thought we were in a good spot, esp with the numerous damage amps in 11.2

[bleak night]

6 rogues

Think of all the atro

[lilac stag]

Dmg amp copium

[steady dune]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[short radish]

does damage amp exist on last boss?

[warm marlin]

200%

[fleet wharf]

what are the bosses with damage amps btw?

[bleak night]

[short radish]

also its not like we're the only other class that does burst damage

[steady dune]

evoker

[fleet wharf]

arcane stonks up

[lilac stag]

5.2 st sim. Others hitting 6

[mellow hedge]

20 rogues

[steady dune]

60% dr

[lilac stag]

start blasting dmg amp execute as assa

[short radish]

i always wanted to do a 20 or 25 rogue raid where they'd chain evasion tanking and swap aggro with tricks

[open vortex]

last two, 2nd and 4th i think

loom/araz/last two

idk the actual order

[fleet wharf]

if that's the case, nonzero chance we see multiple rogues in RWF, no?

[lilac stag]

Why

[fleet wharf]

aren't we really strong in damage amp bursts?

[lilac stag]

when WL, SPrriest MM Dev all exist

[steady dune]

probably just take evokers no? Their burst is on par, if not better

[open vortex]

ya you also have to take into account of externals for the burst classes

[fleet wharf]

oh true

[lilac stag]

sub will be good. It’s not cracked.

assa has a better shot at being cracked

[bleak night]

I'd bet half of my left big toenail we wont

Rogue will be fine but it's not gonna be bring multiple good

[fleet wharf]

demo's still fucking busted in PTR right?

[bleak night]

Supposedly

[warm depot]

holy hell that sigil nerf

[open vortex]

demo didnt get nerfed in the last set of changes

so good chance ya

[swift tinsel]

wym sigil buffed

lily untouched kekw

[open vortex]

oh they changed it to a buff real quick lol

it said nerf when the notes first released

[swift tinsel]

ah

[warm depot]

oh

ok lol yeah i saw reduced by 45% monkas

s o now its definitely prism and sigil right

[open vortex]

i think good chance double on use

[swift tinsel]

I would imagine

[open vortex]

since prism is now 18 stacks

use it for every other

[swift tinsel]

prism + passive

[warm depot]

double on use is cringe!!!

[short radish]

wooooo burst

[open vortex]

i dont think double on use is that annoying lol but wont know until we know

[bleak night]

I already know

[short radish]

i mean nothjing really changes if we do double on use or not

just add /use 13 /use 14

[fleet wharf]

but it doubles the binds I need for my trinkets

how will I possibly manage

[short radish]

imagine not already having trinkets bound already (even though they are macro'd into flag)

[swift tinsel]

flag

[fleet wharf]

Wouldn't it be bound to blades?

[bleak night]

Don't macro shame him

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-shame-ringing-bell-walk-of-shame-gif-13316112511080767236

[short radish]

oh y eah

blades

brains still stuck in last tier or something

[lilac stag]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[strange chasm]

Evoker is much better in burst lmao

[fleet wharf]

Btw, with the prism buff to 3 min, what other classes are gonna want that trinket? WW?

[edgy zenith]

Evoker is better at everything rn. swap to Dev my friends

fun af too

and you get fed PIs so you can be rank 1 dam

to help your epeen

[stiff stirrup]

What build are people playing for sub m+ in ptr?

[edgy zenith]

same build but remove CB and get tea

oh yeah, no rotten too

[stiff stirrup]

Tea? When did sub start needing energy

[swift tinsel]

its for mastery

gets macro'd to shadow dance

[stiff stirrup]

Oh so send it with cds irrelevant to energy?

[swift tinsel]

energy basically means nothing in cds

[mellow hedge]

yes

[edgy zenith]

yeah, you can min/max it by saving charges by not going below a certain amount outside of CDs but

fuck that

[fleet wharf]

it's QOL guys

[edgy zenith]

xDDDDDDD

[stiff stirrup]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[sharp lake]

the tea thing is so weird because i get it but every other QOL talent in this game is a choice node with the good version and the easy version

[stiff stirrup]

Jeez so many bugs still

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[fluid moth]

I wish auto tea was a choice node

[tribal blade]

they need to just replace tea with something else

it's boring and nobody likes it

[fluid moth]

That too

[plush roost]

They should make tea charges stack so i can slam 3 in my cds for 50% mastery

[short radish]

DONT YOU LIKE THE NOSTALGIA IT PROVIDES WHEN DRINKING IT?

[plush roost]

While keeping the 30 energy auto tea so we can all hate ourselves

[tribal blade]

lol nobody liked tea during vanilla

NOBODY

[short radish]

its so nostalgic though

its such an iconic ability

[tribal blade]

i thought of that the other day! that would be dope

[serene notch]

…wait is this tea build ptr or we talking people running tea rn?

When did I miss this memo

[tribal blade]

you can run tea next season in M+ with the new tier

[mellow hedge]

make tea like a mini lust like mages get

daggers go burr

[open vortex]

make tea into whiskey

and its a 50/50 chance if u do double dmg or not

[mellow hedge]

ooo

yes

+1

[serene notch]

I still hold onto my mad dukes tea from sl just in case it bugs out and I can use it, that count 🙂

[tribal blade]

maybe the easiest fix for tea would be to either make it only either give energy or give mastery

on a choice node

[serene notch]

Auto consume tea is omega cringe

[tribal blade]

yeah that's one of those types of changes where it was probably being screamed about on the wow forums

but in practice anybody playing on the higher end of the game hates it

[serene notch]

That’s not what we means when we said reduce button bloat

[tribal blade]

the tea auto proc would probably be fine if it only gave energy

[serene notch]

I would say….less bad

It’s such a bad design choice

[tribal blade]

the entire thing is bad, i was honestly so sad when i first saw they were implementing it on the new DF trees

[serene notch]

Just thinking about playing around it so you can have a charge for CDs is …..is this real life?

[tribal blade]

haha true

but thankfully i don't think it's a big grief if you accidentally proc it

[serene notch]

We taking tornado again?

[tribal blade]

fucking joctaa

wants to come to my 19 but hasn't even timed an 18 yet

what in the hell someone i know had no shot of making title with how far behind he was

and now he's basically gotten boosted to 1 key off cutoff by 4k players

[serene notch]

Credit card best buff in game

Get boosted for a title such a funny concept to me, if your good enough to get title, you are good enough to title?

[tribal blade]

he's good enough for sure

[weary saffron]

look in the key history and see if the accs are name changed and server transferred right after

[tribal blade]

but he started too late and was too far behind

[weary saffron]

there are a loooooot of buyers with resil so

insanely inflating everything

[tribal blade]

he's a healer so he legit just needs to not die and do some healing and it's chill

[weary saffron]

yep

hes clearly still doing em

[tribal blade]

but yeah he basically just got all his top keys done within a week with just 1 group of 4k people

[serene notch]

I wonder what % of people pug for title

[mellow hedge]

i couldn't imagine TRULY pugging for a title

[tribal blade]

quite a few

but what ends up usually happening is you find people to play with along the way

[mellow hedge]

is that considered a pug?

[tribal blade]

i think if you pugged most of your IO you pugged title

you have to be a serious madman to pug title gonna be real

[serene notch]

I wonder when I start to feel stuck not having a group to run with. Have not gotten to those nosebleed keys yet.

[lusty epoch]

Ok so we want to use shuriken storm between coups for next patch.
Do we still want to pool shadow technique stacks before flag? Now that we don't have a winning streak buff we can lose.
Any more changes to the rotation?

[serene notch]

Is that what my guy is charging for an attempt?

Wild

[hollow spear]

Big trinket changes, I like it

Other classes better keep their fingers away from that prism

[serene notch]

Yea please don’t make me hang on to old season trinkets for longer then I should

I ran transmitter for way too long

With nimble flurry benefiting from blades, do we not BP anymore?

[tribal blade]

wanted to check if he's resil 20 but this mofo privated his account

[steel zinc]

Are the trinket changes in simc?

[dreamy moat]

ya

[steel zinc]

ok nice gonna sim all of them then see what we like sec

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

doesnt seem like it tbh

[dreamy moat]

theyre on there

[steel zinc]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uM6L3B94qVLmeM9S2yaV3t your right

we want now loomathars trinket

I guess that thing is also good for sin

[dreamy moat]

yea its bug got fixed so big stonks for it

[vocal pine]

with new buffs would we still have bad downtime ?

[dreamy moat]

Id imagine a large amount of specs want it

[vocal pine]

do you think its the way to go for raid next patch ?

[steel zinc]

wdym?

like the spec has downtime

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[steel zinc]

also dawnbreaker trinket is bis

[vocal pine]

is our dps in the lows are good in next patch ?

[warm marlin]

no

slightly better perhaps but not good by any means

[hollow spear]

I want big burst and don't care about downtime

If I wanted something else, I'd play a different spec

[steel zinc]

yup

its like saying outlaw is fast

[jaunty heath]

Same but also at least let me burst even more

No such thing as enough burst

Give more

[placid scaffold]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wild hornet]

Expert mode?

Also do we know if deathstalker is making a comeback in 11.2

Or is it trickster season again

[warm marlin]

aint no way

also they randomly nerfed it this week despite it being awful so definitely aint no way

[steel zinc]

some simc strings like supercharge is added

[steel zinc]

no its like 1 mill behind even more after the nerfs

Its a PvP hero talent

no meme

the 2nd boss is the rogue boss

sub offpiece bis trinket for assa and sub and dagger and more

[wild hornet]

I haven't checked anything about ptr so idk what the 2nd boss is at all

[wild hornet]

Ohh

Another rik reverb situation

[wild hornet]

Oh yeah I saw the manaforge thing for DS get reduced to 40%

Sadge

[warm marlin]

you will not catch me dead playing antenna

if its anything like it was on ptr pre fix

that thing was like 15% uptime

ick

[hollow spear]

What's the fix even

[warm marlin]

idk but it doesnt look too bad anymore actually

i can accept 40%

[solemn hedge]

so i play rogue since 3 seasons and always played sin/outlaw. want to get into sub for next season. how hard is it compared to the other 2?

i just cant get my head around all this cooldown handling

[hollow spear]

It's not that hard once you've gotten the gist of it. You have to be precise during your dance/blades windows and understand how many dances you can send, that's basically it.

It's usually blades window - 2x dance between - blades window - 1x dance and it alternates from there.

[solemn hedge]

yeah i tried to follow the guide on wowhead, even got weakauras for better cd overview but i just cant get it right

got the hang of assa in like 3 weeks and played the whole progress as assa but my head can't comprehend sub playstyle

[hollow spear]

Gotta spend a while on the dummy to hammer in the dynamic ig

That's what I did

[serene notch]

Yea just Practice opening on dummies and you’ll get it

[hollow spear]

Once it clicks, you can take it into the real world

[cursive oar]

i dont think this build doing well in m+

[hollow spear]

And what makes you think that

[hollow spear]

Afaik, the build he posted is better. You just have to include tfd and it should be top.

[muted frigate]

Is the on-use trinket situation cooked for sub or am I missing something

[hollow spear]

You're missing prism ig

[muted frigate]

Im talking farmable ones, fractillus is 5th boss for mythic and m+ only has the mastery on use from the new dungeon right?

soooo well be using HoC for a while i guess? at least its not as bad as transmitter situation

[steel zinc]

you dont play cb in m+

[pure edge]

Guys trying to decide if main assa or sub for S3. Whats the main diference between them? What you would say make sub funnier? How about St and aoe? This will be for m+ mostly. Thanks and happy weekend my lock picking friends.

[keen dome]

Which do you enjoy playing more? play that

If you like both equally then play them both, swapping between them is easy

[pure edge]

I dont play sub since legion did it change something?

They both uses crit but assa stacks mastery and sub versa

[keen dome]

Stats don't matter

[pure edge]

Must be cause i played assa s1 but i see sub rotation kinda confusing

[keen dome]

You can just swap with one recraft, or just not care. It's not that impactful. Sub has changed substanially since Legion.

[pure edge]

But ive read that sub has the Best burst in game

[keen dome]

I'd suggest practicing it at a dummy and running some keys, see how you like it. If you like it, play it.

[pure edge]

Ye, since they both uses dagger that would be nice. Ill try that now that we are on off season. Thanks

[nova cairn]

So if you're gonna run prism in the new tier, on your 1st opener you just don't really have a trinket no?

[somber sentinel]

yeah though now since it stacks up to 18 we can hold for 3 mins. Double on use might be a an option

[young mural]

is this still true? echoing void not recommended?

well it doesnt really matter

this shit is gone in 4 days

[nova cairn]

This bad boy on opener

[young mural]

then go for the 1min 30 trinket

double on use alert?

[haughty mural]

Prism would be your second one

[frigid schooner]

so what do you boys play then on ptr

which trinkets

[native zodiac]

Double on use would go kinda hard

Especially with prism + forge

[void ocean]

having ptsd from Smolderon with branch and that other trinket, ashes or w/e was the name

[native zodiac]

Ye but that was bc branch was dogshit

With these 2 you can just macro them into blades and forget about them and it would just pop either one thats ready

Think someone showed sims earlier that we use the passive trinket from 2nd boss anyways though

[vestal escarp]

Hard to belive we got ashes with crit and we cant use it

Too bad

[nova cairn]

That's what I was thinking

Double on use sounds pretty good with Prism

You should be able to fully stack is as well since

[lilac stag]

If you’re holding prism for 3, what are you using at 1:30?

[random mason]

Prism

Forge is 2min, prism is 1.30

[nova cairn]

Pull forge 1:30 prism, repeat

[lilac stag]

If you’re holding stacks for 3 minutes….

[somber sentinel]

you would hold for 3 minutes between 1:30 and 4:30

[nova cairn]

But you don't have to hold for 3 mins

You could pop on minis at 2:15

[lilac stag]

The minis historically have not been that important, which is part of the reason we didn’t use 2 on use prev tiers

[hollow spear]

Sounds like a dps loss to me

My feely ain't craftin

[tribal blade]

double on use

notlikethis

[hollow spear]

Baseline I don't think it's good

[somber sentinel]

we'd end up treating forge like a 3min, but we were doing that anyway

[hollow spear]

Maybe if the fight timers make sense for it

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/moomin-girl-walking-and-turning-around-kogan-little-my-gif-25155064

[nova cairn]

This is my first sub tier

so

[lilac stag]

the stat distribution loss normally doesn’t work out with the on use x2. Maybe some fight timing allows for it but typically can’t which way we try to get the robot to force it to work, it’s a loss.

[nova cairn]

I am brain dead

[lilac stag]

Spoiler ||you’ll be playing assa||.

[keen dome]

same and I do just fine

[lilac stag]

You self inflict it though

[somber sentinel]

robot doesn't account for dmg amps or add spawns, so i guess it all depends

[keen dome]

true

[nova cairn]

surely not an assa tier tho

I will end it

[lilac stag]

then why are we not playing 2 on use in m+?

End of the day it’s the overall encounter. If two on use makes you happy go for it.

[lilac stag]

about that.

[nova cairn]

This?

[warm marlin]

Playing double on use only holds off the problem

[steel zinc]

Idk seems easy to get

[warm marlin]

You go from having nothing on pull to having only 9 stack prism and no second trinket at 90s

[steel zinc]

Yes 2nd boss dropps everything for rogue dagger trinket off piece everything

[somber sentinel]

It will be a hard sell tor the loot council to give me both either way 😄 i never said it would make me happy, only that it was an option now

[lilac stag]

They want to hold after 130

[steel zinc]

Prism is fine just stacks now higher

[nova cairn]

Where are the sub s3 trinket sims

[steel zinc]

Also Also depending on fight and prog you might play a CD Set without it like Nexus King mythic

[tough mist]

is sub still legit for mplus in s3 ? Doesn't want to play the borring assa

[steel zinc]

Do yourself I did

[warm marlin]

Nexus king is a giga prism fight if the dmg amp ends up being around 3mins exact like it was in testing

[lilac stag]

“Still”? It’s been assa all along and they got stronger.

[steel zinc]

@nova cairn

[steel zinc]

This!

[nova cairn]

ahh tyty

[steel zinc]

And therefore sub will be busted no one has our burst even in bl some come close

[warm marlin]

Any damage amp fight really

Pooling dmg trinket good

[fading wedge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uM6L3B94qVLmeM9S2yaV3t

Current gear was pacemaker

[lilac stag]

last time double on use truly made sense was when you could wave your hands in the air on a 20 second prepull

[placid crown]

Hello

Can someone explain what does it mean ?

[warm marlin]

Cooldown starts immediately on press instead of upon buff consume, and the buff itself is 15s instead of infinite duration

mostly a fatebound assa fix

[lilac stag]

watch assa try to cook up some double on use with 2mins

[steel zinc]

Assa can play also prism

[plucky parrot]

anyone know whether the new changes have been implemented to ptr yet?

[steel zinc]

Yes everything is live

Feel free to test it

[tough mist]

It's demoralizing, assa is boring.

[steel zinc]

Only thing class that needs tuning is wl. Otherwise gl we will see 3-4 in rwf

[lilac stag]

Then play something else

[steel zinc]

With fatebound even more it's an hero talent with 0 interaction

But pretty nice it's now 90 sec

[somber sentinel]

i'd rather have 0 interaction than have to deal with deathstalker mark

[steel zinc]

You will play fatebound on St

Like it's not even close

So 1,2,6 boss

[plucky parrot]

Yippeee testing time

[tough mist]

looking for mplus, I doesn't raid

[lilac stag]

Fatebound Assa can possibly like a word about that once they actually sort the apl

[steel zinc]

Then you will never play fatebound

[steel zinc]

True yes your right

[lilac stag]

especially in execute

but we shall see

[tough mist]

I'll never play fatebound coz i'll never play assassination, so boring. I don't care about parse, doesn't want to trade my soul for a boring gameplay

[steel zinc]

Why are you playing a pure dps class if you don't like 1/3 of the class

I get why a havoc won't tank but saying never playing x

[tough mist]

I like 2/3 so ?

[keen dome]

they should add a tank spec to rogue

[fleet wharf]

I feel liking 2/3 specs is good enough reason to play tho

[steel zinc]

And it's not boring gameplay imo but that's subjective

[warm marlin]

Liking 1/3 specs is reason enough? You have one banger spec that’s perfect for you but it’s attached to 2 others so suddenly it’s unplayable?

[lilac stag]

If you’re “pushing content” you are best served to be able to play all three specs

don’t have to like em

[fleet wharf]

but outlaw hasnt been meta in... i dunno actually

[steel zinc]

Yeah true @leaden prairie didn't do top 10 world keys with outlaw ....

[lilac stag]

If outlaw was ungodly ahead on a prog boss, wed be playing it

[keen dome]

I'd still be Sub

[steel zinc]

Outlaw is committing a craft to a weapon that you can't use as sub or sin. That's been always the issue

[fleet wharf]

I haven't gotten the hang of outlaw yet, but i dunno man, i think there's decent enough reason to legit want to play rogue for progging

[lilac stag]

M+ aotc, mid tier ce it doesn’t matter as much if at all

[fleet wharf]

besides being a dps class with 3 to pick from

[steel zinc]

You always play one rogue

[hollow spear]

Idk, sub looks pretty good to me for this tier

[steel zinc]

I mean then play w/e true

[fleet wharf]

very true, a decent part of why I'm switching next tier

[vagrant fulcrum]

yeah sub's timers are solid for some of the bosses

[warm marlin]

also there are so many one spec rogue one tricks (much more so than other triple dps classes)

[vagrant fulcrum]

idk man, the bm or mm one tricks, the frost one tricks, destro one tricks

[steel zinc]

boomkin

[lilac stag]

Look at the outlaw one trick swapping to dust sub for 1 boss during prog.

[vagrant fulcrum]

remember our population is just a lot smaller than other classes

[fleet wharf]

we're just invis. there are dozens of us, dozens, you hear?

[keen dome]

In relative terms, we might have the most one-tricks but ye, overall I imagine Mage or Hunter have the absolute highest amount.

Honestly Paladin might be the highest

[fleet wharf]

ret onetrick

[vagrant fulcrum]

most missing class on a lot of prog kills this last tier for sure

[carmine portal]

I disagree, Pally defo

[keen dome]

Yeah, I think Ret is probably the highest

Just on sheer volume of players

[vagrant fulcrum]

like 500 gally kills no rogue, next highest is around 80

[valid yoke]

Ranged rogue spec that uses thrown weapons?

[keen dome]

no, tank. TANK.

[fleet wharf]

why ranged weapon when we already have guns

[carmine portal]

oh god not this again

[lilac stag]

Look at mugzee

[steel zinc]

Believe it or not rogue is the hardest melee spec. Assa is very easier and that's why u also don't see many rogue players.

Any warrior, fury, udk, ret is braindead easy

Good thing is if you play all 3 rogue specs well any other melee is faceroll imo

[carmine portal]

Feral has entered the chat

[steel zinc]

Assa rogue

It's literally assa rogue

Just easier

[warm marlin]

every feral player I’ve talked to says it’s omega overstated difficulty

[leaden prairie]

Actually a few r1 keys

[carmine portal]

aintnoway

[lilac stag]

just confirm it with Koffing

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think you might be right, perhaps some could find totemic enh harder than rogue

[leaden prairie]

I would argue assa is better this season still tho, or just the same

[steel zinc]

Yeah but Zac unplayable outlaw was dead s2 no meta

[placid elk]

feral ppl are delusional

[lilac stag]

Enhance is way more button bloat and a lot less survivability.

[placid elk]

imagine playing with 5 combo points only

[leaden prairie]

Imo S2 outlaw is kinda how s1 assa was

Like it wasn't meta

[lilac stag]

arguably more difficult as melee

[leaden prairie]

But it was meta

[fleet wharf]

wasn't assa kind of meta tho

[leaden prairie]

If I can have an outlaw as meta as this every season I'm so happy lol

[vagrant fulcrum]

assa was like next alternative to fdk

[north schooner]

are the red dots at the top a secret message?

[vagrant fulcrum]

in s1 meta comp

[leaden prairie]

Ye

Well no

[fleet wharf]

dunno what happened, it looked on on my jpeg

[vagrant fulcrum]

well it was one of the options

[leaden prairie]

It was like Boomie Aug + enhance

And then you played fdk or assa

[vagrant fulcrum]

ye

[leaden prairie]

If you replaced Boomie

[fleet wharf]

There were teams running assa instead of boomie early on though

[steel zinc]

Like the balance was so good imo that for sin and outlaw the first page of that spec raider io everyone has title. That's a lot

[leaden prairie]

Ye

[warm marlin]

Assa was also specifically good in some dungeons right

[vagrant fulcrum]

ye it was good in gb

[warm marlin]

casuals group was like r1 tgp in db

[vagrant fulcrum]

tons of prio mobs in the packs

[fleet wharf]

that, and with a lot of tank busters, iron wire had higher value, no?

[steel zinc]

Iron wire imo new dungeon pool is a meme in premade groups

[vagrant fulcrum]

my one wish is that they bake in iron wire and add a defensive node for sin

[lilac stag]

cause assa needs more in its toolkit

[lapis hatch]

Assa season 1 problem was low ST and aug made it more apparent

[steel zinc]

I haven't seen a pack where you need at the start instant silence and not just kick manually

[vagrant fulcrum]

the spec is noticably squishier than sub and ol

[fleet wharf]

monkeys paw gives assa smokebomb

[keen dome]

iron wire is a cool node, baking it in would be neat

[steel zinc]

Just if you can put sth on top of the boss. It's meta now way more then in df already.

[keen dome]

Just a solid QoL utility thing

[steel zinc]

Isn't needed though

[lilac stag]

assa still way more tanky thank most others

[vagrant fulcrum]

I was thinking personal defensive, smokebomb as a raid cd would kill off sub and outlaw on sight

[keen dome]

It'd make pugs smoother

[fleet wharf]

that's kind of the joke lmao, it's a monkey's paw not a nice genie

[keen dome]

Smoke bomb in the class tree would own, though

[steel zinc]

Yes true. I assume that most that read a class discord play when the season comes out in full or semi premade

[vagrant fulcrum]

fr

[lapis hatch]

Assa tanky, but hitting feint on cd in pure ST feels bad for already starving spec

[alpine wraith]

yea rogue is weird in that you can sometimes go from low M to CE guilds because there are so few

[vagrant fulcrum]

with amz coming back we could justify smoke bomb

[steel zinc]

Pretty much yes but it's called darkness now.

[alpine wraith]

but finding guild at high ranks is so hard no one wants more than 1 or they just game it with 0

[fleet wharf]

but yea, I think iron wire baseline would be a good "M+" utility for rogues

[keen dome]

I'd love to see be a choice node. One version is a darkness-esque DR zone. The other drops the DR and swaps it for a LoS variant.

[alpine wraith]

tbh smoke was kinda buggy as f

[north schooner]

what is strange is that both outlaw and subtlety have rows 3 and 4 with utility and defensive talents yet assa stands out and doesn't

[alpine wraith]

you will see in pandaria classic if they keep the bosses mechanics

[fleet wharf]

this is my dream next tier

[steel zinc]

We have two

[vagrant fulcrum]

but then sub or ol hitting feint on cd are tankier anyway, the point remains they gave sub and ol better defensive talents

[carmine portal]

DKs would cry that another class gets a raid wide aid whilst they're stuck with grip

[keen dome]

Absolutely. I'm the weirdo who pugs everything. And man, having assa rogues naturally silence on garrote would be so nice lmao

[alpine wraith]

been trying to find guild with no avail will send more apps this weekend it is hard

[steel zinc]

Why pug? I would kill myself

[lapis hatch]

Assa is 100% less tanky than the others

[keen dome]

Please see: "I'm the weirdo"

[west tide]

be real with me guys am i sub or sin next tier

[vagrant fulcrum]

you're looking for a guild?

[west tide]

be HONEST

[vagrant fulcrum]

I might know one that wants a rogue

[lapis hatch]

Deathstalker evasion and cloak DR’s are garbage

[alpine wraith]

yea for the last week

[steel zinc]

Imo it's a bit late. Since most guilds have roster set and preparing everything now.

[alpine wraith]

yea ik well maybe it is like last time and they just have week 1 or 2 crashouts

i still need to do guides etc

anyway

[steel zinc]

U switch for full st during prog assa fatebound and everything with adds you can play sub. 3rd boss might be ds assa angle.

Last boss dunno but looks like sub or ds assa

[vagrant fulcrum]

sent info in dms, hopefully it helps

[warm marlin]

number 1 fatebound salesman

[alpine wraith]

i wonder if cosmic hunter is a bit better than antenna

[lilac stag]

rogue just doing ethical boss dmg just like old times.

[alpine wraith]

even if sims a lil worse

[steel zinc]

I get more coins doing that meaning more damage

[alpine wraith]

just because it has kinda execute

and cleave

the fabled lucky coing at 20 secs

[warm marlin]

is it not just a st proc

[alpine wraith]

what i find funny is they destroyed eye HoC and pacemaker

[warm marlin]

it reads as a st proc

[steel zinc]

When we were talking in guild a bit about 2nd boss mythic whole Team said then yeah then just blast boss others do adds.

[alpine wraith]

second part

[warm marlin]

Ah yes

[alpine wraith]

tbh last phases on bosses can go hard

getting 160% inc dmg on a 20% boss

[lilac stag]

I think that’s going to be a sleeper where it doesn’t sim well

[keen dome]

Same

I think it's going to be a very good trinket

[steel zinc]

Delves or?

[alpine wraith]

it is from a boss

[steel zinc]

Which one?

[alpine wraith]

let me check which

adarus darkblaze

[keen dome]

MY NEMESIS

[warm marlin]

depends a bit on how much the damage amp matters for killing dimensius probably

[keen dome]

the """optional""" DH boss

[stoic reef]

The fake dh spec

[alpine wraith]

yea we will do that boss anyway for bootsies

[steel zinc]

Kekw

[lilac stag]

No one skipping tier shoulders.

[keen dome]

it's so stupid they called it optional

[alpine wraith]

yea it is silly

[keen dome]

you need it for HoF. It drops tier, it drops trinkets, it drops the boots.

[warm marlin]

truly the most optional boss of all time

[tough mist]

everything is optional is wow

[keen dome]

pet battles aren't

integral content

[tough mist]

& mog, you right

[keen dome]

hell yeah

fashion and friends

[tough mist]

housing will be too

[stoic reef]

Fashion and friends are optional

[alpine wraith]

everyone knows you will need 10000 tmog score to enter raids in midnight

[tough mist]

wtf

[stoic reef]

Work tho, its mandatory

[alpine wraith]

there will be a npc on the gate

that will rate your mog

[keen dome]

Finally, my time to shine

[tough mist]

How to be in HoF without a good mog ?

[stoic reef]

Do you HAVE to be in HoF

[tough mist]

Ofc, to show you beautiful mog

[tough mist]

Aren't you raiding for showing your beautiful mog to 19 randoms ?

[stoic reef]

Tbf tho, if id show anything it would be the elite set from s2

Pretty darn cool

[tough mist]

still locked to mop cm set

[stoic reef]

The og mental

[tough mist]

with an addon who spam /roar when you interrupt something then theres flames on spaulder

it's 100% meta

[stoic reef]

Dayum that must feel exactly the same as playing ww monk with the jojo WA

Bis

[hollow spear]

Like I'd swap to sin this raid

Sin kinda cooking in m+ though

[stoic reef]

Would u have fun tho

• i feel like sub is cooking on m+ too

[tough mist]

with recent tunes its 50/50

[steel zinc]

Sin is really really good

Like it's 10% St and more in aoe

[tough mist]

Logs from today in PTR (M+) theres not a huge diff, same for yesterday

[hollow spear]

Ain't playing that shit in raid

[nova cairn]

In s3?

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tough mist]

https://mythicstats.com/ptr?from=2025-07-31

[steel zinc]

Yeah looks after changes really good ngl

[stoic reef]

Dunno, the specs seem pretty much the same dmg wise

Just go have fun broski

[steel zinc]

Also plays way better. Did some 15 with it nothing super high

[stoic reef]

The only con of sub in my opinion is damage profile

[hollow spear]

Wdym that's a con

[stoic reef]

Damage profile of sub is a real stinker

But I enjoy it

[hollow spear]

Damage profile is the cope we have for s3 raiding

[haughty mural]

[hollow spear]

Why would it be a con

[stoic reef]

I mean for m+

I dont raid

[nova cairn]

Don't thge fight times tho for new raid favour sub more

[tough mist]

Think, if you doesn't pretend to be a top player, it's about playing the specialization you're most confident with. Fk the meta

[stoic reef]

^

[hollow spear]

I'm playing mostly weekly keys, I don't care

You can do weeklies with anything that can press W

[tough mist]

exactly

[alpine wraith]

it will depend in the end sub will favour if you can move things around a bit

like moving dances around

[steel zinc]

90 sec assa is in

[alpine wraith]

or now with new prism we can even move dmg between phases

[hollow spear]

Let's see how sins burst looks when the dust settles

[alpine wraith]

seems like fatebound one is quite high but also only st

[stoic reef]

Btw I heard there is a really good delve trinket for us

What is it

[hollow spear]

Our burst is kinda hard to beat, especially outside of lust

[alpine wraith]

yea for m+ even after the nerf it is good

the void trink

[steel zinc]

Nerfed move on

Void touched Fragment

[stoic reef]

Sadge

[tough mist]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZdgwXcNvrxa4GMfm?fight=17&type=damage-done

[stoic reef]

Whats the combo for m+ now

[steel zinc]

Meta no one knows

U can play w/e until like +20

Just game

[tough mist]

^

[stoic reef]

I mean the trinkets

[alpine wraith]

for m+ we will likely use prism and the touched frag

or cosmic hunter

[steel zinc]

Oh you play prism

[alpine wraith]

antenna is also good but

it can go rng

i mean you can play forge and prism but there is no real reason to

[steel zinc]

Prism and x passive. The crystal from dawnbreaker Sims highest now

[alpine wraith]

yea the one from dawnbreaker is nice

a bit rng

[stoic reef]

Hmm thats cool

[alpine wraith]

but we only kinda not like haste anyway

[stoic reef]

Where does prism come from

[steel zinc]

So is our flask

[alpine wraith]

a boss in the raid

fractillius

[stoic reef]

Is it early or late

[steel zinc]

5/6 boss of the raid

[steel zinc]

Middle

[stoic reef]

Holy shit am cooked

[alpine wraith]

tbh flask is good for us 3/4 biggus

[steel zinc]

You can most likely pug it

[alpine wraith]

also makes pot better

[stoic reef]

Despairge

[steel zinc]

Fractilus is carried by Weak aura and nerfed hard by gear

[stoic reef]

Does prism make a big difference?

[steel zinc]

Yes

[alpine wraith]

you can also use the pvp trink for a while

or forge but that one is unlikely to go to us

[steel zinc]

It's vs old hoc 1% ahead after nerfs to hoc 1.8%

That's both at 684

Sub comes online with prism

[stoic reef]

Thats so bad for me

[steel zinc]

Why?

You can pug hc

[stoic reef]

It will take eons to kill

[steel zinc]

Why?

[nova cairn]

PMA buddy

[steel zinc]

Pma?

[nova cairn]

Positive mental attitude

[lilac stag]

True Rogue Spec

[stoic reef]

Copium for short

[lilac stag]

Like it was fate

[alpine wraith]

yea just rng some coins

it is the anti sub spec because if you change specs CB breaks

truly fated

[lilac stag]

if I’m top boss dmg, it was a good day

old school rogue menty

[alpine wraith]

just gotta DDoS the fdk

or warlock

[stoic reef]

Guess am going pvp trinket bois

[alpine wraith]

or hunter

i mean pvp trink is very strong because you can get it week 1

well when the season begins i mean

with only conquest

[keen dome]

Yeah, can get it extremely quickly

[alpine wraith]

then farm m+ to get cheap upgrades

[lilac stag]

Unironically double on use with pvp trinket maybe good if that’s still a 1 minute.

[steel zinc]

Again why just go normal. Like normal you just run through. Or you do content where it's really irrelevant what trinket u have

[alpine wraith]

yea it is still a 1 min

[lilac stag]

Use that until 3 min boom

[alpine wraith]

wonder what affixes we will have in s3

[steel zinc]

No it's pretty dog simmed it

[alpine wraith]

double on use will always sim kinda bad

[keen dome]

I assume it'll be a carbon copy of S2 and S1's ye

[steel zinc]

Same as now

[alpine wraith]

it is just how you use them or if you need them at a precise time

it can be fine in m+ more than raid tbh

use pvp trink on pull 1:30 then prism at 3

[lilac stag]

Basically PvP eliminates the timing issue, but if it’s relatively shit unless you have an amp it’s not worth.

[alpine wraith]

call the last one the HAYMAKER

well in m+ things can be a bit diff

[lilac stag]

can get a 330 use of pvp

Then back to your 5 min

[alpine wraith]

damn didnt realize

yea if you use it at 3:30 it is back for 4:30

and same as 5 min to 6 min

quite interesting

[lilac stag]

timeline wise it has a ton more flex than forge

[steel zinc]

For Heroic you will play eye even after nerfs

King will be +8 min in hc early on

[alpine wraith]

yea eye is kinda good

[steel zinc]

Like also eye and prism

[alpine wraith]

also once again week 1 crafting pvp wrists and maybe ring

[lilac stag]

Depends where you toss embellishments.

[steel zinc]

What itemlevel do the crafted pvp have?

You can add emelishment to it right?

[alpine wraith]

i mean week 1 it is crafting dagger

[steel zinc]

It's more then 681?

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

pvp gear is like i dont remember the ilvl but like entry m+

so you will change it but first week you will need to do m+ anyway

[lilac stag]

I need to buy Jastors still

[steel zinc]

I'll probably do pvp week 1 too just to get cq cap and buy the versa neck and rings

[steel zinc]

Pvp gear easy socket is a big plus

[stoic reef]

That does sound like a plan

[steel zinc]

All the pvp gear has bis sub stats. I remember using s2 pvp neck until mugzee prog

So like a month or so

Tbf we had shit necks in m+

[alpine wraith]

this time we have floodgate or priory one

but also we likely craft neck second craft

[steel zinc]

Nah wrist

[lilac stag]

Neck

[steel zinc]

With hc crest

[lilac stag]

Wrists are nothing burger

[steel zinc]

I mean can buy wrist with pvp gear and socket them

[lilac stag]

which sounds like another reason for neck

[slate marlin]

btw are bp rules bound to change in cds now?

[steel zinc]

Good point

[steel zinc]

3 in blades 5 outside if fw is up

[slate marlin]

even after the nf buff? damn

[steel zinc]

If you play rotten u can force fw with your 2nd builder in dance

[slate marlin]

ye i always do that

[hollow spear]

Does the robot even use the pvp trinket + prism combination the way we think it should be used?

[alpine wraith]

we would need to tweak it

[void ocean]

Prism is this trink that stacks 3 mins, right?

[fleet wharf]

do you mind elaborating on this a bit more? What/how much PVP do you need to do to craft these? Are crates enough to craft these? I'm guessing they're not on the same reward track as PVE though right?

[alpine wraith]

it is a bit diff crafting that the items you buy from conquest

the pvp items you craft are low ilvl but decent

[fleet wharf]

so farm up enough honor to buy the PVP crafting recipe?

[hazy breach]

Just play more keys instead

[alpine wraith]

they use the purple things you can get from arena or doing some bgs

but yea like eleem said m+ gear is better

[fleet wharf]

if there aren't much diff, yea I think i'd rather spam keys

[alpine wraith]

m+ gear is better

[slate marlin]

eleem have bp rules changed inside cds?

[hazy breach]

Probably

But im not at home so cant check

[slate marlin]

ok ty!

[steel zinc]

Rn kus and shindig and streaming double rogue m+

[slate marlin]

ye pretty fun to watch

[steel zinc]

thats insane content ngl

pretty much should link that for people who want to know assa or sub

[slate marlin]

pretty close in overall too

[gloomy barn]

Yesterday i found a link to the 3 specs simmed on a sheet, which i cant find today… Anyone know where that was?

[native zodiac]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gloomy barn]

Aaaa banger cheers!

[alpine wraith]

i was updating the sheet too and with not many changes i guess just need to update videos thingies

big changes

[vestal escarp]

10m overall is good but nothing crazy

[steel zinc]

its not updated

[alpine wraith]

yea fuu needs to rerun some things

but likely will get updated in the weekend

[gloomy barn]

Aight Aight

[steel zinc]

you can do some math like sin fatebound + ~12% in st and sub +5%

[slate marlin]

but take it with a grain of salt tho, sims are not the same as actual raid dmg

[steel zinc]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r91wDpLqguwPNiyFepzq8L

[steel zinc]

Fractilus says hello

[slate marlin]

Most fights arent like that tho

but yeah lmfao

[steel zinc]

yeah but we didnt have in ages a pure st fight

you have near 100% uptime even in mythic

[slate marlin]

sikran from nerubar was pure st with 100% uptime

[steel zinc]

nah

you had to run out for the lines

[slate marlin]

oh u got the arrows

ye

just rng those

[steel zinc]

if that was in the opener your screwed

[slate marlin]

forgetable boss ngl

i didnt even remember the main mechanic

[placid crown]

Question: in M+, as subrogue, when you face a big pack, what builder do you use after a sectec ? shuriken storm will obviously deal more damages than a strike, but if you do 2 strikes, you gain 2 stacks to prepare a coup de grace with nimble furry

and if you do suriken storms, you dont build a coup de grace

what's best ?

ignore coup de grace and just spam storms, or build coup de grace with strikes ?

[alpine wraith]

you always strike unless you have coup up

with blads

then you storm in between

in big pulls you can track FW and bp if coup is not up but storms mostly come from outside dance

or from the in between coups so FW might not be up always

[placid crown]

thank you

[errant ferry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj7rsGC8M2A

i have never seen this much emphasis on raid buffs in keys before

to the point where he's putting specs that don't have them a full tier lower

[hard inlet]

the are both in A, just stating that the specs are also in A but they have a raid buff? cus ppl didnt like that he had A+ etc

[tribal blade]

yeah but he goes in detail about how much more valuable it is to bring a raid buff that boosts your group's overall dmg

so that's why specs bringing a raid buff are a tier higher even if they're equal in power

[wary plover]

Which bosses have Dmg Amp next tier?

[hard inlet]

and its true no?

[tribal blade]

yes it's true

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is what it is

[tribal blade]

just a shitty situation

[hard inlet]

its a tierlist

[tribal blade]

it's not the tierlist

it's the fact that stacking raid buffs have become the meta in M+

so if you don't ahve one, you get WAY less invites

speaking from experience this season

[hard inlet]

know the feeling

[steel zinc]

2/4/7 and 8

[hard inlet]

went uh dk in the end

[tribal blade]

yeah grip is arguably the biggest buff in keys tbh

it's such insanely good utility

[hard inlet]

yeah, and was so easy to get groups

[tribal blade]

i beat an udk in overall in a key recently

which was a good feeling

[hard inlet]

as sub?

[tribal blade]

nah as sin

no shot as sub

[hard inlet]

xD

im i the only one or does it feel like shroud sucks ass in keys?

[tribal blade]

the issue is they put truesight mobs everywhere to make shroud less required for groups

[slate marlin]

so instead you take mind soothe or meld skips

[hard inlet]

priests can do it better

yeah like wtf

[alpine wraith]

speedshroud can be quite good for timer

in some indoor dungeons

but not strong enough

like it was good in ToP

[hard inlet]

thats true

[tribal blade]

yeah blizz does that a lot with rogue

[slate marlin]

ye but shroud would have been quite useful in cinderbrew skips

[tribal blade]

things are "too strong" on rogue

[slate marlin]

but u cant shroud them

so u meld xdd

[tribal blade]

and then other classes end up getting the same thing but better

[hard inlet]

delete mind soothe plz

[slate marlin]

where would have shroud be too op this season instead of ms/meld?

[alpine wraith]

it was good to do workshop parts fast too but idk

it can be good in taza vesh

to just zoom through some places

[tribal blade]

yeah actually streets has a lot of good shroud spots

because the pathing in that place isn't linear

so you can bounce around places

but if you don't have shroud/soothe you can't do it as much

[alpine wraith]

you also can do that rogue alone part

[tribal blade]

lol yeah there's a lot of rogue tech in that dungeon

[alpine wraith]

but was annoying to do

[tribal blade]

i also remember there's the spot to start the RP to one of those bosses