subtlety

[void ocean]

are we gonna use bp more?

[maiden oar]

im more optimistic because theres no situation like before with transmitter and nerfed s2 tier set + baseline buffs but who knows

[tribal blade]

i haven't played sub tea in a hot minute so not 100% sure

[slate marlin]

most likely yes

oh more

[alpine wraith]

it does proc quite a bit if you are not careful

specially in st

[slate marlin]

i read anymore, my bad

[void ocean]

im not careful

[tribal blade]

actually nvm i forgot storm costs a ridiculous 45 energy now

[slate marlin]

Stupid af imo

45 is too much

[tribal blade]

if we had old 35 energy storm we'd be chilling

[steel zinc]

tea is a gamechanger playing wise with the new tier feels imo so much better then cb

way better sustain

[slate marlin]

it slows aoe out of dances

so goal accomplished

[void ocean]

i mean i doubt anything changed energy wise comparing to this season and using storm outside of dance felt like im drowning

[tribal blade]

it does feel WAY better being able to fill every global

[alpine wraith]

the ida we had is to buff finishers so making storm cost more was ok

but they only heard the last part

[tribal blade]

you can play like sin and not use abilities when you're below X energy 🙂

if you really don't want to proc tea

[void ocean]

i mean i didnt care even as sin 😄

[steel zinc]

imo you actually do that before cds

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i don't care as sin either

[void ocean]

wise guys said its not much of a gain so...

[steel zinc]

you see tea coming up you just chill anyways

[tribal blade]

might be the move yeah

[maiden oar]

i guess with vigor its a lot less punishing to do that

[void ocean]

is nado gonna be again for cdr?

[alpine wraith]

for ruptures mainly

[steel zinc]

rupture

[vestal escarp]

uuuuuh

[steel zinc]

pack is getting stacked you rupture

[vestal escarp]

build is not picking replicating

[steel zinc]

I wont play nado if its just 1%

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/ranpo-edogawa-ranpo-bro-what-disappointed-disgusted-gif-27695660

[vestal escarp]

the heck we rupturing?

[steel zinc]

like cba

[alpine wraith]

you do use replicating for m+

[steel zinc]

we do that already since s1

[void ocean]

thats even more cursed than nadoing ouside for cdr

[alpine wraith]

that is why you dont see finality or rotten with points in

[steel zinc]

rotten is fun to play

I think its undersimming

[void ocean]

i miss nadoing inside cds for da bomb

[vestal escarp]

slice sim is not picking it

[steel zinc]

spreading 100% crit storms and applying 100% fw with it is goated for bp spam in cds

[void ocean]

SL good times

[steel zinc]

braindead aoe rotation in sl

[alpine wraith]

well tbh if there are never huge pulls replicating is not that big anyway

[void ocean]

my fav way of doing keys

[amber blaze]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oZv8NhSNKsUkv1L1urC4YK
I dont understand in fuu sheet it says that we run 2 lense, but in sim i see 2 crit embelishment.
Also in sim build looks like st build, not for m+
am i dumb?

[tribal blade]

you legit could have such good key awareness during SL playing sub since you were just storm>BP

over and over

and over

and over

[vestal escarp]

anyway nado is in sims because no implementation for tfd

it's an obvious swap

[chrome palm]

Swap with what

[vale pine]

i forgot to change it

[vestal escarp]

tfd

[wheat elk]

might have answered it already but there a estimation on how much this build differs from the previous one?

[tribal blade]

i don't think you can swap nado for tfd

[chrome palm]

What if you run both

[void ocean]

yea, liked the architecture of the dungeons, resembled early gothic period... omg and the artwork inside, magnificent...

[chrome palm]

Are you running finality

[amber blaze]

so crit > 2 lense?

[alpine wraith]

or with tornado

oh wait

[chrome palm]

I was doing dark brew build

[void ocean]

we saw that

[vale pine]

yes, but its not that big of a diffrence

[vale pine]

i don't think you will want to create 2 gearsets

[alpine wraith]

i do find no replicating interisting but also

[chrome palm]

Rupture does so much damage with rs and db

[steel zinc]

no replicating means you do more bp

[alpine wraith]

likely

or maybe between the coups and extra sec techs you are more busy

[steel zinc]

Also bot might tell not to run first dance but that is some cook

imo also misleading for newer rogue players

[alpine wraith]

tbh we are kinda triple and double dancing a lot in aoe

[tribal blade]

no replicating build would be cool on lower key builds

[alpine wraith]

spreading rupture to 3 or so targets whole things come is good

[tribal blade]

not sure about higher keys

[alpine wraith]

even withour replicating

[amber blaze]

and i see verse is worse than crit now? so stats will be something close to assa?
mastery>=crit>versa>haste?

[steel zinc]

higher keys rupture owns

you get full value

[tribal blade]

yeah rupture does a lot of dammy

[steel zinc]

beste use of any cp

[tribal blade]

also lower energy cost

[steel zinc]

yes

[tribal blade]

double win

[chrome palm]

Rupture helps with burst too

[tribal blade]

it REALLY does

it's like investing into your next go

[chrome palm]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

on higher keys you can play the db build

[chrome palm]

Little tornado before the cd window to spread ruptures

Kinda vibe ngl

[vestal escarp]

idk did you check you rup dmg on overall at end of key last time you did one as sub?

[steel zinc]

you will imo with a shaman no shadowcraft

but if your comp needs st you play more st

[vestal escarp]

it's still pathetically low even when you go out of your way to rup stuff

[alpine wraith]

it is around 12-14% or so for me

[tribal blade]

oh is it really now?

[alpine wraith]

that is quite decent

[steel zinc]

high keys +18 above is really good

[chrome palm]

I think my rup damage was like really good even on 15 ak

[tribal blade]

i remember it doing quite a bit

obv with DB build rupture goes crazy

but even w/o DB build rupture does good work

spreading rupture feels better on sub tbh

i have to say

[tribal blade]

on sin it's annoying

[chrome palm]

im getting carried by rupture wtf

[tribal blade]

higher than BP 🙂

[chrome palm]

maybe i was overzealous

[vestal escarp]

Bp is split

[tribal blade]

this is ptr right?

[vestal escarp]

anyway

[chrome palm]

yeah this was ara kara 15

[tribal blade]

ok yeah cool

seeing sectec that low feels weird haha

[chrome palm]

although i do wonder if you could run veiltouched

is it bad or something

[tribal blade]

ngl i would rather run VT

and not think

[chrome palm]

seems like a decent alternative to tornado if youre running rs

[tribal blade]

it's a flat +5% magic dmg

[chrome palm]

sometimes mobs arent grouped for tornado

[tribal blade]

and we do a lot of shadow dmg

[chrome palm]

also has to be a st gain

[tribal blade]

it def is a ST gain i think

[steel zinc]

the ds sim doesnt account for so much and forget so many things.

[tribal blade]

nado is useless on st

[chrome palm]

im gonna try that next time

maybe nado is bis and i just dont see the vision

[tribal blade]

honestly nado will feel not as bad to use with vigor talented

part of what made nado feel so horrendously bad was using it with 100 energy pool

[slate lantern]

i made this when i was last trying to learn sub, is this no bueno? I had been doing the rotation normally with bs not realizing i had it macrod to sd

[tribal blade]

i guess you can do that so long as you have dance on a separate bind

[alpine wraith]

it is fine unless you enter dance without fw and backstab does not proc it

and proc shadowcraft after sec tech

then the evis wont have FW

and you go aaaaaaaa

[tribal blade]

i had a macro like that when we were playing old TFD

when it gave you 4 CPs on entering dance

[slate lantern]

ok weird the macro was only on my stealth bars which would never proc anyways since im not pressing sd when in stealth/subt

[chrome palm]

ah the classic

i am gonna do this

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null
/cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance

i think i mightve munched some teas by not having cast sequence in there

[tribal blade]

i was literally thinking about this a few hours ago

thanks for reminding me

since i spam 2nd dance during blades

[chrome palm]

i dont wanna think about how many teas ive wasted

[tribal blade]

hahaha

it's just the same thing as the sin shiv macro right

[chrome palm]

i just ripped it from that

[tribal blade]

ok cool

[slate lantern]

is there any world where we could add a cancelaura to sd? found as i was practicing that i would sometimes mess up the second sd in the burst if i was just a wee bit too quick on the trigger

[tepid trellis]

huh?

what do you wanna cancel?

[lilac stag]

Killing spree.

[slate lantern]

yes ofc

[slate lantern]

the shadow dance aura, if i press it too quickly on the second sd in the burst window, nothing happens as you cant cast sd while in sd/stealth right?

[lilac stag]

you’re dancing back to back

[slate lantern]

ya

[lilac stag]

be patient

[slate lantern]

okie

[lilac stag]

It’s not outlaw

[tepid trellis]

canceling it early would be even more

[lilac stag]

You can see your gcds

[slate lantern]

more just as protection in the case where im pressing it like 0.2s early

[tribal blade]

the only world in which you would want to cancel aura dance is if you just finished killing a pack and need to restealth but are still in dance

[clever holly]

In the beginning that happened to me too and I thought I'm some kind of god gamer cause I have more dance charges then other rogues

[slate lantern]

ok ill work on being patient, i have the honk wa from zacs that tells me when i can press again i just get antsy about fitting everything in the burst

[pastel quiver]

Ah ha...fml...I just realized practicing last night I did the same...I was like damn my teas are zip so fast....💀

[tribal blade]

tea should have a 5 second built in cd on it

there's no world in which you're using multiple charges in that time frame anyways

[vale pine]

not the worse idea

tea is kinda meh

[chrome palm]

i hit 5 target dummies and shadowcraft and brew are very close, i have to wonder how they compare on bigger pulls

[plush roost]

Brew feels better in high target counts

especially if you prespread ruptures during gather

[chrome palm]

it certainly does

[plush roost]

But shadowcraft is much more boss dps

[chrome palm]

need to do a double sub key on ptr

little head to head

[brittle plinth]

Deathstalker destroys everything

just repeat that

[rotund pawn]

perhaps have something like ele shaman has for earthquake, same node of talent, but you get to choose if its gonna be cast on target or you want to select it on ground, could add similar to tea where one is autocast other one is manual

[patent lichen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[remote shuttle]

Unless you symbol dance backstab using rotten u mean?

[alpine wraith]

we dont play rotten

but yea if you play rotten it is fine mostly

[night sparrow]

Cold Blood cooldown now begins immediately upon use and has a 15 second max duration.

So cool

[raw wadi]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[night sparrow]

I don't get why CB buff is irrelevant on sub, I mean it's not a HUGE dmg upgrade but it allows us to use 1 CB without 1mn30 CDs right ?

[slate marlin]

wdym? its 45 sec

you easily get one out of cds

[vale pine]

does not rly change anything for us

mostly a qol for assassiantion

[night sparrow]

Sometimes when I used it (bc testing things) on the exact frame I get it back, it aligns perfectly with next 1mn30 burst window, so this change might allow us to consistantly use it isnt it ?

not consistant bc of procs during 1mn30 cds that make us use the last SecTec

Alright in fuu we trust

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[placid elk]

i told you sub will be meta, chat gpt told me

[fleet wharf]

what else does your crystal ball tell you?

[placid elk]

the wisdom that we got a choice to reroll if im not right

[astral axle]

and it still can't provide an accurate list of states which contain the letter c

[placid elk]

would help but im european. massachusetts has a c

[lilac stag]

ChatGTP didn’t see the assa Fatebound changes coming.

[sullen hare]

Chassamusetts

[placid elk]

haha he missed massachusetts

[slate marlin]

illinoisc

new yorc

[sullen hare]

Czechas

[placid elk]

damn why is chat gpt so stupid sometimes

[fleet wharf]

miccouri

[slate marlin]

dalawace

marcyland

micciccippi

[astral axle]

When it had to double check it added MIssissippi bro

[fleet wharf]

i'm surprised it didn't throw all 50 states at you

[astral axle]

[brittle plinth]

its not that its stupid, it doesn't see words.

[placid elk]

isnt he trained on idk.. the alphabet?

[brittle plinth]

in a round-about way

[fleet wharf]

it's gonna take all yer jerbs

[brittle plinth]

but its more about connections between words and that logic

so stuff like the above, is usually a blind spot in accuracy which is good at highlighting why we should use it as a tool not a source of truth yet

[astral axle]

it isn't that it is stupid it is incapable of knowing!

[placid elk]

at least he's good at math

i waste my free questions everyday for work calculations

[brittle plinth]

the only saving grace is that I closed my practice down before this became a thing, the pain i'd feel every morning when some methhead had a chat gpt defense strategy in hand

[placid elk]

[narrow shadow]

Hey guys, we playing DS in M+?

I saw some buffs to black powder

[brittle plinth]

Yeah

DS is bis

make sure you go to wowforums and tell everyone too pls

ty

(dont actually play it)

[placid elk]

i think i made him do it. if the correct number is 10 i found the loophole

[night sparrow]

DS is a pretty boring mecanic on sin spec so no thx for sub plz

[narrow shadow]

All rogue hero talents are garbanzo

Gameplay wise

[modest river]

ive been wishing for a DS plus darkbrew tech for a while now

[maiden oar]

i like trickster

its not the best but its fine

[fleet wharf]

I feel we only like trickster because it gave us flurry

[narrow shadow]

And we got 0 visuals

[maiden oar]

coups cool

delayed shadowcraft less cool but it is what it is

[slate marlin]

trickster gives some very nice cdr

i think biggest issue with rogue hero talents is what they could have been

vs what we got

[night sparrow]

we'll eventually see what is/if there's next progression system with Midnight

CHAMPIONNES ! HEEL THE WOONDS ! AZEROS NEEDS YOU

[stuck linden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

So while the overall of Darkbrew is better I actually think shadowcraft is just way too good

The boss dps difference on ST

is farrr too much

3:15 boss 588M, vs 2;15 boss 846m

[slate lantern]

Isn't that 646m not 846

[plush roost]

I cant read

LOL

Still

[slate lantern]

[plush roost]

1 extra minute for 60m less dps

[lilac stag]

Spreading more ruptures = 👎🏻

[alpine wraith]

i see no shaman there

might be why

[plush roost]

no shaman is less impactful on DB

[alpine wraith]

i prefer to play with shadowcraft anyway

[slate marlin]

2nd picture was a warrior buffing mm and frost dk

and you

[plush roost]

yeah ofc bshout is relevant

[slate marlin]

idk how that messes the tests

its not 1.8M dps still

[alpine wraith]

well people will try things some dungeons will benefit more from rupture spread

[plush roost]

That was halls of atonement

overall difference

Raw numbers DB did more total damage, dungeon just took longer

[slate marlin]

idk looks like 2nd dungeon u had better specs and/or players too

bc mm lower than ret is kek

[plush roost]

i mean these were just two examples, been doing keys all week and I find that Shadowcraft progresses bosses significantly faster than DB

which is more important than overall imo

kinda weird situation to be in

[lilac stag]

No shaman in AoE is whatever.

ST be pain

[slate marlin]

normalize sht

[lilac stag]

normalize OH

[slate marlin]

if they normalize sht

would we play sword?

[marble sail]

Do we know If out talents will change any for s3? Like which we run etc

[alpine wraith]

depends how powerful the sword is

as they are allergic to make daggers with effects

yea we will play a bit diff talents

[slate marlin]

no cantrip dagger vs no cantrip sword, same ilvl, with normalized sht

[marble sail]

St or aoe or both?

[alpine wraith]

fuu did some sims although some things need knowledge to know when to change

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

kinda both basically we dump finality

for other things

[marble sail]

Awesome thanks

[alpine wraith]

and in m+ you can play tea now

[marble sail]

ok thats sick

[alpine wraith]

well it is not a big change tbh you just macro it to dance

and try not to get it auto popped while outside dance

[spiral sierra]

what hero talents was this?

[alpine wraith]

always trickster

DS is omegabad

[spiral sierra]

i mean he didn't say so

had to ask

[night sparrow]

the auto tea proc is just so dumb, okay it requires more energy management but it's eventually just an anti QoL feature

would be nice to be +x mastery and +x% energy regen

[spiral sierra]

how far behind is cold blood compared to tea now?

for M+

[marble sail]

it was very hard for me to get used to it, played rogue in s1 df and the proc was super weird imo

[vale pine]

it is a qol for the casual player

[spiral sierra]

also do we just never touch tea? or do we use them on CD?

[vale pine]

we just macro it to dance

and cba

[spiral sierra]

kk

[slate marlin]

auto tea can feel bad but its a nothingburguer anyway

[spiral sierra]

if i just let tea be on auto pilot its fine i guess xD?

[vale pine]

yep

[spiral sierra]

still wish DS was better (feels like i do more with it on live rather than PTR tho)

[hollow spear]

Most people acting like auto tea is the end of the world would have probably used it in a way that decreased dps 😄

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter, you can just not track it and not bother with it

Macro it to dance and literally forget about it

[night sparrow]

Trial of intent at its finest

[astral axle]

are the hotfixes live?

[hollow spear]

Don't think so

He's comparing builds

[slate marlin]

wouldnt be better to swap pe to rs?

[vale pine]

not yet

[alpine wraith]

likely swap finality for TFD

[plush roost]

Im just trying Fuu's sim sheet build

[slate marlin]

ah alr

[alpine wraith]

well make a cultured choice

[slate marlin]

ye tfd is too good

[plush roost]

Probably drop PE/impSht for rupture+tfd

[alpine wraith]

i do like replicating a bit yea

[plush roost]

I try that now

the crit chance actually

really helps

[plush roost]

in aoe

[alpine wraith]

you could get tornado yea

[plush roost]

I actually really like tornado

[alpine wraith]

it is fine for what it does

[plush roost]

lots of big packs and its good inbetween cd button

[alpine wraith]

now

yea cdr is big

[slate marlin]

is pe better than finality tho?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[vestal escarp]

how the hell can you play without craft man

[alpine wraith]

finality is quite bad

even more with the bug on coup

with new set

think i will recommend this mostly

[slate marlin]

i didnt think pe was strong

[alpine wraith]

it is not strong just the others are kinda weak

same thing happens with wm and tfd in ST

where one longer dance is better than the krangle that WM is

[slate marlin]

makes sense

[alpine wraith]

across even 6 mins+

[slate marlin]

cant you swap pe for vt? or pathing

[alpine wraith]

and well remember flat % crit is more valuable the closer you get to 100%

i mean at that point you are just playing the old build

might be quite close with the rotten one

[slate marlin]

true i guess

never thought pe was even decent

guess i was wrong about it

[vestal escarp]

if you pick tfd you should always go into perception with invev

pv

[delicate current]

This is for m+ I'm assuming?

[alpine wraith]

problem is you lack DD so you cant go inev

or you need to drop replicating

maybe in some places you drop replicating but idk

think for most things this one is an all rounder

[delicate current]

And the sims haven't been updated for the lastest buffs yet right?

[alpine wraith]

dont think buffs would change much but likely fuu reruns the sims

[delicate current]

Just curious about the new number mostly

[graceful crown]

tornado and 6% more crit with symbols and no symbols duration?

i like it

[alpine wraith]

inev is not symbols reduction

i do think this may be less st but idk how much

as you do lose DD and inev

[graceful crown]

i like that minigame of tornado and ruptures out of cds

[hazy breach]

Current number times 1.045

[graceful crown]

for sustain dmg

with +6% crit with SoD, can we go with less crit for secondary stats or is just a good add

[plush roost]

flat crit value goes up when yore closer to cap

[graceful crown]

what was the cap of sub?

[plush roost]

this is my current ptr stats

[graceful crown]

u have like 15k of crit aprox?

[plush roost]

13k

[graceful crown]

ok

18-20k mastery and 18k vers aprox? thats ptr stats? or u used buffs

[plush roost]

about that ye

idk stats on ptr are kinda weirdge

Im just fiddling see how things feel rn

[graceful crown]

seems pretty

[lilac stag]

4.1% in ST

[graceful crown]

i was thinking about premeditation, is it really necessary?

for s3

we have very good cp generation now

[plush roost]

It makes your dances better in ST

[graceful crown]

cant we open with shadowstrike and 1 more backstab wait a little for energy and use SoD to take more adventage of its energy generation then start normal cd rotation

and get that talent to another side

idk im just thinking haha

[plush roost]

Being able to use backstab as first global in dance is very good

also messes up cds

cause now you're going flag > rupture > backstab > dance strike > sectecblades

[graceful crown]

thats faster yeah

[plush roost]

that or you're banking on sht

and you lose refunds in cds

idk premeds really good

[plush roost]

oki i try this in Floodgate

[alpine wraith]

yea premed is good mostly to not waste SHT

apart from the cps it gives and the DM economy

i mean it is not super strong but our dps per point is quite low

[fleet wharf]

For the general tree, we're just moving the CB points to tea right?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[graceful crown]

im liking it

i was not much a fan of CB

in s2 we had just a burst, but this new build with more sustain seems more fun

we gonna lose a little of ST right?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[graceful crown]

Its pretty anyway

[delicate current]

Are we dropping CB in raid too or just for m+

[alpine wraith]

only for m+

[graceful crown]

they fixed the rotten and now we dont use it KEKW

irony blizz

[alpine wraith]

was too powerful

[graceful osprey]

What happened with it?

[swift tinsel]

storm no longer consumes both rotten stacks

[graceful osprey]

Interesting

[graceful crown]

i hate when thistle tea uses itself automatically

[sly shore]

Don't we all

[graceful crown]

yeah...

haha

[grand wyvern]

QoL🤣

[graceful osprey]

I’m waiting for shadow grenades

[crystal bone]

would be cool to have shadow grenades instead of throwing powder at people

its basically pocket sand

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-dale-gribble-pocket-sand-pocket-sand-gif-3699662

[slate marlin]

enough to kill certain jedi

[north schooner]

I want a shadow bazooka

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rocket-launch-the-king-of-random-water-jug-rocket-fly-gif-18237973

[slate marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/i-hate-sand-gif-2743302484875254134

[graceful crown]

excuse me, why perforated veins only works with backstab instead with shadowstrike too?

is meme?

done, bug submitted

[alpine wraith]

would be nice tbh

[swift tinsel]

Ope

might wanna change that now

[graceful crown]

🏄🏻‍♂️

done at next ptr hotfix

[patent lichen]

They buffed sub on my birthday?! Big win

[shell willow]

Can anyone explain why we sometimes storm between coups instead of SS or BS?

[patent lichen]

Not to proc unseen blades when it's capped at 4 escalating blade stacks I think?

[swift tinsel]

yes

to reduce escalating blade stack waste

[shell willow]

Kk ty

[left ledge]

Poodra aswad buff

[spiral sierra]

man, are we really playing shuriken tornado for M+?

[alpine wraith]

yea

it is not that bad

[spiral sierra]

its just annoying to use is all

otherwise i would be all for it

[north schooner]

Issue Report: "This talent is dogshit"

[vestal escarp]

Bro you mispelled delete it

[graceful crown]

https://tenor.com/view/keyboard-hyperx-rgb-hyperx-family-hyperx-gaming-gif-17743649

[left ledge]

I’m actually happy we go nado for m+

Finally, SOMETHING different in talents

We take these scraps

W

[void ocean]

for fckin rupture spread

what a fckin L

[left ledge]

Huuuuge

[fathom adder]

is that the shadowcraft build mentioned or is that a different one ?

[graceful crown]

atleast we have 1 more cd outside of bigburst windows

[lilac stag]

Just play at that point.

[void ocean]

i hope not

raid wise I rly dont mind swappin between sub and assa but in keys... Id rather be outlaw than assa

this season played bleed build for most of my keys and was bored out of my mind

[alpine wraith]

rupture as sub at least does dmg

[void ocean]

im gonna do the same thing i did as assa, just drop 4 ruptures at the same target

[wary plover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Just skip ruptures.

[plush roost]

yes

[lilac stag]

fuck rupture in aoe as sub

[fathom adder]

thanks charr

has anyone the db build that is used on ptr for comparison?

[delicate current]

Bring back nightblade

[patent lichen]

!fuu

[delicate current]

[patent lichen]

@fathom adder should be on the fuu sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-do-you-bleed-dc-gif-5589524

[fathom adder]

ok i will look into it, ty

isnt that just the tea one from above without db? s3 trickster ds version

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/ჯოკერი-joker-gif-21710475

[honest grail]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[graceful osprey]

Give sub the Kyvesa trinket as a passive ability or something or make BP apply a dot

[night sparrow]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[stoic reef]

What did i miss

i see tornado enjoyers on the chat

Did someone figure a different build?

[astral axle]

[vale pine]

no pain no gain

^^

jokes aside, tornado is fine

[left ledge]

Yeah fine for spreading ruptures

[lilac stag]

sub the best

Nado + Rupture

[void ocean]

Ruptado

[warm marlin]

tooltip updated but no mention of sblades amping it

[ashen ibex]

nimble did 38% on 3 targets

i think they are up

haha

[warm marlin]

it looks to me like the nerf is in but the sblades amp is not yet

getting 60% cleave on dummies while blades is up

[lilac stag]

Which dummies are you hitting? Dorm ones still fubar with flurry?

[warm marlin]

org

nvm

i think it was literally just pushed

72%

rip

[left ledge]

Good thing we have a billion shadow/magic amps

[warm marlin]

they clearly foresaw the lack of synergy with magic amps and preemptively nerfed the ds tier set to compensate

[left ledge]

We will get completed in midnight

[warm marlin]

also the whole armor thing

[delicate current]

[warm marlin]

80% dream is dead

[lucid jackal]

It's so over

Reroll fdk

[hollow spear]

nah not anymore

fdk is dead too

reroll sth else

[warm marlin]

its always reroll mage cmon

[hollow spear]

reroll frost mage ig

[left ledge]

Isn’t uhdk still op

[hollow spear]

not sure, they got nerfed as well

cannot tell by how much tho

[delicate current]

Reroll feral

[slate marlin]

72

[lucid jackal]

Yeah fdk is dead

[delicate current]

So is mm

[hollow spear]

that's what they tell everyone who doesn't want to hear it

[left ledge]

Sub rogue best raid spec?

Best m+ spec?

[hollow spear]

forsure

[left ledge]

The sims are lies

The damage amps will save us

[delicate current]

(don't look at assa burst)

[left ledge]

There won’t be a 20% assa aura buff that makes me play assa for end boss prog

[remote eagle]

why 72%? do i suck at math or is that 9215 hit is literally 21% of the initial hit? or is it correct after shadow dmg amps?

[left ledge]

Nimble not blades

The nimble hits for 72% while blades is up

Doesn’t actually count for blades

[remote eagle]

i thought nimble would hit separately with shadow dmg as blades after the buff

i might be stupid

[warm marlin]

you are not stupid, that's kind of what would intuitively happen. prior to this ptr update what happened instead was that blades just didnt interact with nimble at all

[remote eagle]

what is that blades hit on the screenshot exactly then?

[warm marlin]

its just the blades hit from the melee

i included it to show that blades was up

[lucid jackal]

Good thing this raid isn't pure st patchwork

[remote eagle]

yea i giga confused myself sorry

[nova cairn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qqQGvYphNLgGMA8HiG4Kk2 How bad is my sub gear

[warm depot]

whats the loss in not taking tornado

[nova cairn]

Transmitor goes hard

[hollow plinth]

traitor

[young crypt]

is there some sort of tricks of the trade macro i should be using for dungeons? '

i dont see the buff on my tank in TW

[upper narwhal]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[upper narwhal]

use this weakaura/macro combo

[young crypt]

ok ill try it out ty

[quasi mantle]

do note if you are using the 1 hour tricks your tank will not get any sort of 1 hour buff

they get the lil 30s precombat but once you hit and you get the 1hr buff, they have nothing and no indication you are tricksing them

[steel zinc]

are the changes now live or just nerfs? What is happening

[young crypt]

ahh that makes more sense, ty

[warm marlin]

the nimble stuff is all in, aura buff i would assume as well

[night sparrow]

And then Tank dies in key, release, and the whole dungeon is now looking for the tank at the entrance

peak comedy

[steel zinc]

all buffs? Ok only 72% feels bad how much is this now as a buff in aoe? @vale pine maybe you know

[warm marlin]

from the pin neutral/small buff

[vale pine]

72% isn't rly a buff

but expected

its the "worse" version

[steel zinc]

how much is this in ds?

does this change when to bp in blades?

[warm marlin]

mostly a mild prio buff since before u just covered up nimble being bad by black powdering

[vale pine]

can say once we have it implemented

[steel zinc]

ok tyvm

[lilac stag]

What happens when the dmg amp is in execute range?

are we still saved?

[astral axle]

still be optimal. just sub optimal.

[steel zinc]

2nd boss you will play sin

like 50% 25% damage amp

execute

I mean also doesnt matter play w/e

[lilac stag]

I will play deathstalker sub on second boss and enjoy it.

[warm marlin]

the lion does not talent into deathstalker

[slate marlin]

just drink bleach, way more fun than sub ds

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/lionking-simba-baby-simba-throw-off-throw-from-cliff-gif-4938582

[placid elk]

i swear rogue got the shord end of the stick with the hero talents

[warm depot]

we did

[lilac stag]

We didn’t even get a stick

we got wacky inflatable tube man

[keen dome]

but he owns

he's having such a lovely time

[upper narwhal]

We got a twig not a stick

[placid elk]

i dont think devs knew what they were doing, remember first iteration of trickster being tied to feint ?

[upper narwhal]

Rogue hero talents were some of the last to be revealed, they really feel like they ran out of time with them

nobody could look at Sub DS and think it's ok, same with Assa fatebound to a lesser extent

[placid elk]

i feel like theres a single dev working on rogue and he's mad because he got ganked in stranglethorn in 2006

for the devs in this discord and community managers, im just joking

xD

[grand wyvern]

(he is not)

[upper narwhal]

i find it funny that trickster ended up being the most cohesive hero talent considering how bad it looked on the first reveal

[placid elk]

yeah thats my fav one

deathstalker assa is.. ok, 1 minigame. fatebound cba

[lilac stag]

You can be arsed after the buffs

[placid elk]

nah i swapped tank

i got declined so much last season of m+ i gave up

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-suspicious-puppet-gif-2729624127692369191

[lilac stag]

The rogue true path to m+. Following dratnose and yoda.

[merry agate]

https://tenor.com/view/its-over-its-genuinely-over-seal-sad-seal-breaking-news-gif-243396507301445550

[placid elk]

its an honest work. little to no sims, can solo the whole map at once, get insta invites almost everywhere

[lilac stag]

find what you enjoy and go to town.

if I actually enjoyed m+ the tank route is probably a lovely one

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Is this with fw/fazed up on the other targets too

[warm marlin]

nah i procced it on a solo dummy and then stepped over to aoe guys to auto them

[hazy breach]

I see

[left ledge]

Yeah? We are sub rogue hello did you forget we have a stacking shadow damage execute debuff the lower the boss gets that procs off our finishers?

[lilac stag]

I’ve just assumed at this point it’s an assa tier if you’re not getting CE in first 3 weeks.

[left ledge]

It’s called Edge of Night Side of Darkness or SoD for short

[lilac stag]

[left ledge]

Write that one down blizz devs

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for EoN to come back, as an assa talent.

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

what else can we give ?

[left ledge]

I know what else

Perfect repost

[lilac stag]

battle res!

[left ledge]

Nah you got that with engi

[lilac stag]

lust

[left ledge]

You know what they need

The ability to press shroud and it acts as a roar

[lilac stag]

good call

[left ledge]

And they should put a debuff on the enemy that acts like mystic touch or brand

Increase all dot damage by 10%

[placid elk]

that would spiral fire mage out of this universe

[left ledge]

We can give something similar to sub rogue that increases all critical non periodic shadow damage on the boss by .5%

[hazy breach]

Based, hate Green eviscerate

[placid elk]

give smoke bomb in pve back

[hazy breach]

Its still here

Its just called darkness

And isnt a rogue spell

[left ledge]

Fuck green evis

Shit shouldn’t do that much damage…

That’s our job

[placid elk]

i wonder how op would be the "no targetting in/out of smoke bomb" in pve

[lilac stag]

Yoda says sub still dead. RIP

[placid elk]

still dead sub is

[steel zinc]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[leaden prairie]

does sub play the jastor ring

i assume so

[random comet]

yeah, the haste value on it is very small and mastery is bigggg

[warm marlin]

its like 0.2% ahead of other good 684 rings its not a huge deal

[left ledge]

ITS JIGAAAAA BIS

IF YOU DONT HAVE IT DONT EVEN SWAP TO SUB

Real

[random comet]

the caps are convincing

but yeah it's a lot more targettable if nothing else

[golden harbor]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[merry agate]

This game man

Fdk blasting 40 million dps in aoe

"Whoa buddy... lets not get too hasty with that 65% nimble"

[golden harbor]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[pliant topaz]

always kinda funny how VT works isnt it. its supposed to buff shadowed finishers by 5% and blades by 5% so kinda double dips, but not with nimble I guess

I guess making things work with each other is harder than slapping a temporary mod bandaid! surely in 2 patches they wont forget why theres a bug making blades suddenly one shot mobs with nimble

[vale pine]

it all comes back to complex baseline design

[potent relic]

switching from cold blood fatebound to sub still bugs out cold blood on ptr D:

[mellow hedge]

are buffs confirmed to be up yet?

[shell willow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

F

[mellow hedge]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-11-2-datamined-class-and-tier-set-changes-previously-announced-tuning-on-377963

okie it's official

[stoic reef]

Did we just get 10% insteqd of 5% buff

[thorny rivet]

No they added 5 to 5 and that makes 10

I think

[bleak night]

mafs

[stoic reef]

Thats so pog

[vale pine]

5% is the baseline

so ye

[clever delta]

are we still bottom simming

[steel zinc]

its confirmed

we need another buff

gotta doom now more

[clever delta]

patch changes pushed to ptr

[steel zinc]

yes

[clever delta]

can someone test the blades

[steel zinc]

live now for like 1 hour 20min

its already tested

its 72%

not 80

[clever delta]

so we are fucked nice

[tepid trellis]

that certainly is a way to taking it

[serene notch]

lol

[alpine wraith]

well it just ended up kinda neutral

[serene notch]

im over here just glad its getting buffed since i was going to play sub regardless

[alpine wraith]

but hey one bug off the list!

[steel zinc]

I argue its a buff in premade group and nerf in a pug

no meme

[alpine wraith]

and dont forget the baseline buff

[steel zinc]

yeah baseline is also good

[serene notch]

5% aura buff right?

[steel zinc]

ya

still finality is bugged that costs so much st

[clever delta]

yeah but now the scissors open even more between in cds and outside cds dmg

[alpine wraith]

finality bug is not that much st because you can just use another talent

but yea

[steel zinc]

in st its like ~3.5%

[lilac stag]

Don’t watch casual streaming assa ptr

[steel zinc]

sin is good

ofc it is

just still dogshit st in m+

but as long as you have adds np

[clever delta]

thats some gapping

[steel zinc]

floodgate is also made for assa

apart from last boss

alaways mutlitarget

[slate marlin]

Ye hes gapping so hard

[knotty depot]

And third.

[slate marlin]

you can pull mobs into 3rd

[knotty depot]

unless you pull adds into it at start

[steel zinc]

nah

you always add to third

[knotty depot]

yeah never got into a group that does it my bad

I didn't push far enough for people to do that

[slate marlin]

want to see more sub tho

[knotty depot]

Yeah I'm really torn for s3 so far, and with the last batch of changes it's not easy to pick

It'll be my first time mythic raiding in years as well

really hard to see what might be the "meta" spec next season

[tepid trellis]

Neither

[steel zinc]

dont worry about that

[bleak night]

fdk

[slate marlin]

Ill start as sub

[night sparrow]

Hey guys when you're talking about "shadowed finishers" you talk about the additionnal dmg from Shadowblades ?

[slate marlin]

can play assa with sub gear anyway

[steel zinc]

Then prepare the raid. Dungeons are just gear for progress. If your in a half decent guild you have more gear anyways then any m+ only player

[knotty depot]

I'm pressuring myself to pass my trial in my new group 😅

[tepid trellis]

No

Its. Its own talent

[knotty depot]

Yeah mostly thinking of optimizing for raid, but not sure which spec will be best

since I can play both decently

[night sparrow]

HA

I'm dumb lol thx

[steel zinc]

watch shingdings raid prep for it if you want

[tepid trellis]

Its basically free to swap between sub and assa

Assa does fine in sub gear with s bit of re enchanting

[steel zinc]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2526141269?t=03h21m35s

he went through most bosses

just play w/e imo

really doesnt matter its hc

also depends on your comp and what your raidleader wants you to do

[knotty depot]

it'll be mythic

[steel zinc]

then if you have 4p then first 2 bosses is sin

but then again doesnt matter

2nd boss has 25% dmg amp for 50% boss hp

[tepid trellis]

Or if u dont want to make the decision you Can just copy rwf rogues

[steel zinc]

that either

or play like stealthi just sub 😄 (yes mugzee not)

[clever delta]

just copy NA rogue

::))

[steel zinc]

gearing wise sin needs forge trinket and you wont get that as rogue

you will get prism

fdk and sub rogue needs it

rest its like nice to have but not bis

[knotty depot]

why so ?

Thanks for all the information that's really helpful

[tepid trellis]

Last time i worried about what spec to play for prog was legion

[slate lantern]

its always outlaw

[steel zinc]

its just broken and stupid op

[tepid trellis]

Answer is always sub

[keen dome]

Sub season, sub season!

(it's always sub season)

[proper rune]

Ey yo the final patch notes are here. Quite abit to get through so buckle up

[knotty depot]

I'm expecting no less in the sub channel tbh

[slate lantern]

wdym get through, its just the sum total of the different patches so far

[knotty depot]

but tbh I thought the last batch of assassination buffs might push it much closer in the raid

[steel zinc]

in pure st yes imo

[clever delta]

assa "burtsing " 50k dps hehe

thats even more than mm did

[steel zinc]

thats in aoe

[left ledge]

k or m

[bleak night]

50k

holy

such burst

much wow

[alpine wraith]

is ptr krangled as hell with lag for anyone else¿

[steel zinc]

its fine

like obvs some lag

with 150ping

[graceful osprey]

TLDR plz

[runic trail]

Powder stonks are to the moon

[graceful osprey]

Woo lets go BP, our favorite ability, I love spamming BP, might as well take out evis and leave us with BP

[alpine wraith]

i have bit of a problem then ahaha

[sick jackal]

gotta download it and send it to chat gpt for a summary

[proper rune]

I’ll break it down. It’s a 5% aura buff. You’re welcome

Don’t forget it doesn’t work in PvP.

[lilac stag]

It’s a 4.1% buff

[proper rune]

However feel free to black powder people for an 11% increase

[lilac stag]

[proper rune]

I guess that’s the last of the changes?

[lilac stag]

Nah. Sub will get nerfed in 11 days

as is tradition

[clever delta]

doubt there will be reason nerfing sub

[proper rune]

Take back that 4.1%

[lilac stag]

Do they actually need one?

[keen dome]

They'll change the colour of dance to blue

[proper rune]

nerfd

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for silly heroic parses

[bleak night]

wtf

dont ever say this again

[keen dome]

The ultimate nerd to our strongest element

Nerf, not nerd

[bleak night]

truly the ultimate nerd

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/god-damn-nerds-sungwon-cho-prozd-dorks-geeks-gif-26913531

[violet palm]

Any impactful rotation changes going into 12.0? Maybe we can squeeze 1 more dance between Shadow Blades with new trickster tier set?

[hazy breach]

Seems like deathstalker now Increases symbols duration by 3s instead of 2

So youll be losing more uptime during cds or not supercharge sectech

Neat

[fallow nimbus]

Until they touch deepening we won't really see the dream of 2

[slate marlin]

so more reasons not to play ds as sub

another blizzard w

they are in such a w streak holy

[fallow nimbus]

DS is the embodiment of WHY, HOW and WHAT

[keen dome]

And WHO

[steel zinc]

@vale pine shouldnt it be 10%?

These are the patch notes

[fallow nimbus]

You want supercharged cps, here more sod uptime

[fallow nimbus]

The ai rounded up by mistake

[steel zinc]

bro if these go wrong live we cooked

that pure assa tier

and m+

[vale pine]

na, its only 5%

[steel zinc]

u sure?

Wasnt it 5 and then again 5?

ok but why does the aura say 10%?

Is it on live 5 already?

[alpine wraith]

we already had 5%

from before

so +5 it is 10

[vale pine]

^

the 5% we got on live

[steel zinc]

yeah true sometime like 6 weeks ago

sry for wrong ping

[alpine wraith]

too late now you are in the goremaw prison

and have to play it for 1 week

[steel zinc]

so sad that one of our capstones is utter dogshit

[alpine wraith]

dont worry rotten and DB are also ass

[steel zinc]

they dont even bother buffing it because of "button bloat"

[alpine wraith]

or well not ass but just not strong enough

if rotten still had the extra cp maybe

so you could premed +2 rotten

[lilac stag]

Classic 2 line sub notes while every other class had a book, or at least a short story.

glad this spec is perfect. Thank you blizzard. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[astral axle]

sub owns

[delicate current]

Sub havoc

Obviously perfect specs no changes needed

[lilac stag]

fuck havoc

[delicate current]

Fucking preach

[lilac stag]

At least they have animations

That you can see

[delicate current]

Animation*

Fel fart

But yeah no coup animation is beans

[steel zinc]

I can tell you you will if this goes live see 4 wl in the rwf

its the most broken thing ever

st aoe spead cleave everything

[lilac stag]

1 token assa rogue

[steel zinc]

warrior just their to buff

shaman too

[lilac stag]

how many SP is what I’m curious

[delicate current]

The rest of the slots

[keen dome]

Six and a half

[lilac stag]

So goblin spriests?

[keen dome]

No one if them disconnected halfway through the fight

[lilac stag]

makes sense

[steel zinc]

enough with heal priest to buff wl

whole rwf will be build around that. Like sometimes its two classes

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/elden-ring-elden-ring-meme-elden-ring-full-map-elden-rings-elden-ring-melina-gif-25155705

[steel zinc]

like in amirdrasil it was assa rogue and aug and the rest was just their to enhance those

[steel zinc]

wait what. That a bug or feature?

[swift tinsel]

tier set feature

[alpine wraith]

kinda useless

[swift tinsel]

buff still doesn't match sod duration lol

[alpine wraith]

yea it munchs pandemic

[lilac stag]

at some point the realization will set in that they just don’t give a fuck about this spec.

[swift tinsel]

muches pandemic, doesn'tget extended

[bleak night]

buff to dry symbol holy

[lilac stag]

and assa is all they will actually work on

[bleak night]

[alpine wraith]

now while you are autoing for big HUNT THEM DOWN value outside dance

your symbols will last 3 secs longer

[serene notch]

how are the actual numbies looking on PTR?

[alpine wraith]

you can even maybe extend it 1 sec by stabbing TWICE

[swift tinsel]

shadow/nimble thing appears to be on ptr

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[swift tinsel]

too bad it wasn't the 80% but a buff is a buff

[bleak night]

bigly change

yuge even

[lilac stag]

Lets be real, that wouldn’t change shit

[swift tinsel]

you would literally do more damage

[lilac stag]

in the grand scheme of things. 72 to 80 for flurry.

[slate marlin]

8% more cleave during shadowblades

[lilac stag]

AoE still poop

[slate marlin]

oh u need dh trio boss for hof

[swift tinsel]

you're also never happy about any change ever

[bleak night]

[slate marlin]

ill take all buffs sub can get

we all remember the incident that took place a couple months ago dodging buffs

[lilac stag]

Fix the spec. Make significant enough buffs that it matters. Low hanging fruit every time.

We had that buff by mistake with the 10%

meanwhile assa continues to feast comparatively.

So no, losing an extra 8% on cleave for 16 seconds doesn’t really matter imo. Just buff BP more at this point.

wait I got it. Nerf the tier for deathstalker sub.

[alpine wraith]

yea the nimble change ended up being kinda neutral

[lilac stag]

there’s your dev attention in a nutshell.

[alpine wraith]

but now more bursty pog

[lilac stag]

Pretty much how every tuning feels like in the end.

[alpine wraith]

well maybe in overall it might be a little bit of a buff if mobs die just as our cds end

most of the time

[wary plover]

sims are not updated, right?

[lilac stag]

no. Add 4.1%

So basically 5.2

Still among lowest ST sims

[graceful crown]

oh

finally they buffed assa

:o

[fleet wharf]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[graceful crown]

crazy final patch notes :o

meanwhile

[lilac stag]

Don’t look at DK

[graceful crown]

well this is something too

just that

[winged phoenix]

Havoc got nothing 🤣