subtlety

[torn ginkgo]

There a link on upcoming changes that I might have missed?

Oookay

[swift tinsel]

I'm convinced the DS nerf is because they're gonna do something in 11.2.5

[hazy breach]

Nimble is 60%. When you press blades it goes to 72% (or 80%, but probably 72%)

[serene notch]

thanks that english makes more sense then the otehr english from blizzard

[hazy breach]

Its an odd way to make blades work with our aoe cleave

[pure edge]

Hi whats the main diference between sub and assa for m+? Assa more aoe dmg? How good is sub st? Thanks

[hazy breach]

Sub only does damage during dance and is way more reliant on cooldowns

Assa does pretty much the same damage all the time

[pure edge]

Thanks.. Ill go assa this season i appreciate it

[wicked urchin]

sub = tall mountains

assa = hills and valleys

[serene notch]

sub = highest funs per min

[pure edge]

What i hate from assa is the deathstalker debuff apply when you swtich targets

[short radish]

Sub = downtime to stretch your hands and wrists

[pure edge]

Ill try them all btw

[wicked urchin]

deathstalkers mark is absolutely awful

it was so annoying on queen and court

[pure edge]

What i love of being rogue is the fact you have three diff specs to play

[wicked urchin]

i doubt ill ever touch outlaw again

[warm marlin]

anotha one bites the dust

[pure edge]

Outlaw feel awfull with no burst at all

[wicked urchin]

tendonitis makes it very easy to never go back

but also tendonitis sucks

highly do not recommend

[random comet]

Alternatively, outlaw feel great because you have damage for every pack and don’t do healer damage when your CDs aren’t up

Kinda two extremes

[tidal marsh]

Yeah, that's a big part of why I love Outlaw in keys

[warm marlin]

fair enough carry on soldier

[tidal marsh]

plus wanting uptime

While I don't really like Outlaw in raid

Opposite for Sub

[stuck linden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

based take

[slate lantern]

Ryldd is a trailblazer, showing me that outlaws aren't all just one trick ponies

[warm marlin]

rogue fun

[hazy breach]

What about the multispec freakazoid TC brainiac @lucid jackal

[slate lantern]

Do you play sub in keys

[tepid trellis]

sub is the only way to do keys

[warm marlin]

sometimes

i have to for gear for raid and im kinda too lazy to set up bars and stuff to play outlaw/get a weapon

i just play my outlaw alt in keys more

[lilac stag]

Just never run anything but dawnbreaker

sub goated

[random comet]

Actually though

[hollow prawn]

In s2, with minmax cold blood, you use it on the second sectec in CDs, right? Do you use it in between, too?

[serene notch]

small gain to use on 2nd sectec in blades window yes

wish they would get rid of cold blood, absolute poster child for button bloat

[cursive oar]

cold blood or tea? which one is better?

[hazy breach]

Cold blood ST

Tea for aoe

Generally for next season

[errant ferry]

In general I hate CB and tea. Too much bloat

[hollow prawn]

Clarifying my second question: if CDs and cold blood are at 0 and 90s, do you send CB at 45s? Or does it cause too much drag on your CD timings

[hazy breach]

Well you just macro tea to dance

And never press it

[shell willow]

More buffs

[errant ferry]

Oh yeah but not CB

[hazy breach]

If you can cast it at exactly 45s yes, but generally you dont want to line up your dances around it

So in practice it mostly ends up as a 90s cd

[hollow prawn]

And I’m gonna guess buffing a weak stab/evis outside of CDs dance is incredibly minuscule then. Makes sense

[bleak night]

guaranteed crit backstab holy

[hazy breach]

Because like any second you delay CB is a second you need to delay flag and blades

And its easy to end up delaying it too much

And sims dont say its good either to try to make sure you use the 45s one

[hollow prawn]

Yup, exactly what I was thinking

[hazy breach]

Its possible with this new change we can actually end up using it and then sitting afk for a while maybe it works out better, but i wouldnt count on it

[warm marlin]

even if you cb the exact millisecond it comes up between cds you still have to delay a bit because procs can mean your 2nd sectec comes out faster than your previous flag

so you need to hold slightly to be safe

[hazy breach]

Ye true

[hollow prawn]

I was wondering about this since the CB changes can help reduce drag but I guess still not worth

[swift tinsel]

uh either I need to go to bed or they fixed the 4pc

[warm marlin]

def not worth to send on some random ability

[swift tinsel]

2nd coup is out-damaging first

just sod/dance up

will log quick

but could use other eyes to verify if anyone wants to

[bleak night]

[swift tinsel]

if they did that on top of the other buffs

holy

[warm marlin]

is there a reason second coup would be better btw

dont you often supercharge only the first coup

[hazy breach]

Ye youre right, it now works on the second coup, but it doesnt work with shadowed finishers still

[tepid trellis]

more flawless stacks

so bigger bonk

[swift tinsel]

noice noice now delete shadowed finishers for the real win

biggest buff of them all is losing that and FW

[warm marlin]

but now those 3 supercharged CPs aren't 50% more effective

[hazy breach]

I think it ends up being kinda similar overall

Like 50% on 3 combo points or ~15% on 12 combo points (you have a lot of stacks already so its probably more like 12%ish but still)

Napkin math says it should be similar, but then again youre not always supercharging the first, just often

Bummer that shadowed finishers didnt get fixed while they were working on it, but alas the ancient tradition of it being bugged must remain

[swift tinsel]

hoping they add that part tomorrow/friday

[steel zinc]

Guys I told u dooming was warrented we are buffed!

[sullen hare]

We haven't hit professional dooming yet

[swift tinsel]

knew I had good feelings about changes, glad I checked the set lol

[sullen hare]

We're still in the interscholastic dooming league

[steel zinc]

True guys gotta doom more

The nimble nerf is sad

[swift tinsel]

nah I'm team Hype Train

[steel zinc]

I hope they fixed lots of Bugs

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Should be neutral/slightly positive atleast

Unless it makes nimble go to 80%, then its a sizeable buff

[swift tinsel]

Fingers and toes crossed for 80%

[hazy breach]

Im expecting to be 72%, because that makes more sense, but it also kinda sucks since with Dark brew blades is 25% more damage, not 20%

If its 80% then its like a 33% buff while its up, so

[analog hearth]

will it make it so more power in evis aoe so better prio right

or will BP still shine

[hazy breach]

Makes BP better outside of blades for sure with the baseline nimble nerf

[tepid trellis]

could see us go 8 durinb blades and 5 out of

[hazy breach]

Prob just 5/5

But we'll see

[vagrant fulcrum]

lowkey is there some hidden ds cook that blizz sees that we don't?

[sullen hare]

That's a mid season possibility

[steel zinc]

not really no

could just also be we do not want you to play it so lets nerf it

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[vagrant fulcrum]

could be, idk

[sullen hare]

It won't be obvious until wowhead publishes an article about a weird outlier so why bother

[vagrant fulcrum]

i remember playing ds sub on sikran only

it felt wierd

[sullen hare]

"why was this one sub rogue only using shuriken storm as a generator? Find out!"

[vagrant fulcrum]

xd

[sullen hare]

And then we have to do cursed bullshit

[vagrant fulcrum]

ye sub is deffo guilty of having strange apl optimisations

i still remember bp on st in s1 xd

[swift tinsel]

DS full rework 11.2.5 calling it now

same with janky nimble blades thing being a placeholder until they address it

[steel zinc]

are the changes live on ptr or coming later?

[swift tinsel]

later

[distant bison]

is the dps lose so big if we play tea over coldblood? i dont ever wanna press feint when playing cold blood

[lucid jackal]

what

[distant bison]

talents man is it too much of a dps loss if i drop cold blood and play thistlea tea

[lucid jackal]

Yes

in cds you have unlimited energy

and outside, idk, just dont spam as much

[merry agate]

Pleeeease wont someone think of the hunters! 😭

Nah im happy with buffs bois

We be fine 👍

[short radish]

I do find it amusing that the article specifically calls out hunters

Amongst all the other changes to classes

[random comet]

hmmm, which of these changes can we generate the most violent reaction with?

[lucid jackal]

Hunter has been nerfed every single PTR cycle

Probably why

[merry agate]

[random comet]

i feel like "nerfed again" is clickbait gold tbh

[bleak night]

it does make me feel happy to see hunters get nerfed again

so the title does it for me

[plush roost]

Yeah dudr

Unjustified nerf

Yep

[bleak night]

how could blizzard persecute hunters like this

[plush roost]

I watched him kill a 400m hp mob in 8 globals after first boss of ecodome

50m dps

XD

[short radish]

Ecks dee

[merry agate]

HIM

[random comet]

what an informed take, truly insightful and correct

[merry agate]

Held that for if no rog changes this tuning 🙏

[warm marlin]

👨‍🦯 lust?

[chrome palm]

Lust, stops, freedom

[finite carbon]

Forums is gonna be toxic af

So imma use this to make fun of mm hunters

Then they’ll goal post move to

[chrome palm]

They have totally lost their minds

[finite carbon]

“That’s the 1% of mm hunters!!!”

I would post that in thl

But I don’t want to get banned again

[merry agate]

[brisk onyx]

Hello rogues!

🏄‍♂️

[delicate current]

Honestly someone pin this

[finite carbon]

Based

[merry agate]

Karma

[random comet]

someone link that in the hunter discord

redirect their fury

[bleak night]

its true i live for 3% aura buffs

[tribal blade]

someone is trying to tell me that title is 3790 right now on https://www.wowhead.com/news/mythic-enterprising-hero-title-score-requirements-posted-for-season-2-377928

but it's gonna keep updating right

[cerulean beacon]

Good lord they actually fixed nimble flurry with shadow blades

[chrome palm]

Wait can we pre pull cold blood now

[warm marlin]

it only last 15s

[shadow snow]

i cant believe a warcraft post hurt me this bad

[pliant seal]

so the 5% increase is it that mutch of a buff?

[chrome palm]

It’s around 5% by itself

And then aoe buffs too

[rocky ocean]

5% aura is effectively less than 5% and I find this spaghetti balancing approach funny

[little scaffold]

blizzard updates the post daily. it will go up until reset.

[tribal blade]

ok yeah thought so

[shadow snow]

how much less though? like 4% or 1%

[wind canopy]

Buff sub

[rocky ocean]

like 4.8

[shadow snow]

its fine

[rocky ocean]

borderline incompetent game design imo

midnight will show for sure

[lucid jackal]

What?

What is incompitent game design?

[rocky ocean]

tuning your specs in a spec game by aura buffs

[lucid jackal]

They didn't tune it with just aura buffs though

They buffed a handful of direct things

In addition to an aura buff

Why is that incompitent?

[runic trail]

I just woke up, how should I be feeling about the notes. I'm dumb and need guidance

[rocky ocean]

because there are other approaches, clearly better approaches

[lucid jackal]

such as?

[rocky ocean]

like spending time figuring out why given spec starts to suck every quarter season

[warm marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-happy-jumping-gif-26555219

[lucid jackal]

Whats the issue with aura buffs exactly

If the spec is u ndertuned, just buff everything?

They are also doing both

[rocky ocean]

it's treats the symptoms not the cause

[lucid jackal]

What does that even mean

Can you speak not in a buzzword

What would u prefer they have done?

[rocky ocean]

aura buffs address the current state, but not the reasons why this state was created in the first place

[pearl swan]

they addressed both

• and +

[lucid jackal]

It solves both problems though

[finite carbon]

Well

[lucid jackal]

The spec is undertuned, so it gets an aura buff

[finite carbon]

You have to consider

That you can’t have big spec changes in a normal patch

[lucid jackal]

What are you talking about??

What does that have to do with the efficacy of an aura buff

[finite carbon]

It doesn’t

[distant bison]

i want 5% crit raid buff aoe goue alongside blind and smoke bomb pve talent 😄

[lucid jackal]

and again, a majority of the numerical changes rogue has gotten this patch, hasn't been aura buffs

[rocky ocean]

and you know why? because they dont want to invest time in this

[finite carbon]

That’s the point

[finite carbon]

No

[pearl swan]

aura buffs r needed if the spec is under tuned

[rocky ocean]

yes

[lucid jackal]

They buffed the tier set

They buffed BP

THey buffed individual things

[finite carbon]

Because those fixes are more complicated than slap a few things

[lucid jackal]

and then also aura buffs

[pearl swan]

they did bug fixes too

[lucid jackal]

Yeah

[rocky ocean]

look at fatebound

[pearl swan]

got it all

[lucid jackal]

I'm looking at fatebound

[finite carbon]

If you think they can slap a line on it and call it a day

Then your actually brain dead

I’m sorry

[rocky ocean]

dead for 3 seasons straight

[finite carbon]

Like it’s highkey insane

[rocky ocean]

is that game design

[pearl swan]

historically they have done aura bffs when other things r needed

[lucid jackal]

What does fatebound have to do with anything being said rn

[pearl swan]

but not this time

[finite carbon]

To say aura buffs are bad

[lucid jackal]

Fatebound was also BIS for outlaw in season 1

[finite carbon]

Cause reasons

[lucid jackal]

its also still the best ST option

[finite carbon]

No don’t say logic

[rocky ocean]

what I would like is for blizz to invest time in specs in a spec game. Fatebound clearly shows how they are doing the opposite

[finite carbon]

That undermines my point of outrage

[lucid jackal]

What does this have to do with aura buffs being "a failure of game design"

a spec can be well designed, and undertuned, do you agree?

[rocky ocean]

not a failure just incompetence

it's enough to be on float

[finite carbon]

But it’s not incompetence either

[lucid jackal]

Do you agree, yes or no

[finite carbon]

Like rather them not aura buff it?

[rocky ocean]

cant agree with that tbh

[lucid jackal]

U r just wrong then

[rocky ocean]

because in an ideal scenario your design is reinforced by numbers

[lucid jackal]

Not always?

[rocky ocean]

in an ideal scenario alwways

people love numbers

[pearl swan]

thats where an aura buff to an already well designed spec

is needed

aura buffs r not a bad thing

to do to specs imo

[pearl charm]

So by your ideal Standard, 50% of specs in the game will always be badly designed since they're in the bottom 50%. Genius

[pearl swan]

some specs r insane and play like SHIT

ot fun at all

[finite carbon]

No but

They do big numbers

[rocky ocean]

fatebound

[finite carbon]

Surely that means their goodly designed

[lucid jackal]

So on the opposite end

Undertuned specs are poorly designed?

[pearl charm]

They gotta be then

[rocky ocean]

thats not enough to make such conclusion

[finite carbon]

But the opposite is enough to make you conclusion

Even tho

It’s the same logic

And shit

[lucid jackal]

How is it possible that well tuned specs are well designed

but undertuned specs are badly desigend?

[rocky ocean]

didnt say well tuned specs are well designed

you guys are tricky

[finite carbon]

Okay

@rocky ocean

[pearl charm]

No you just said that even if it's well designed but not topping damage, it's by definition bad

[rocky ocean]

just look at fatebound and thats my entire pooint

[lucid jackal]

Im asking u questions

[finite carbon]

What is the best designed spec in the game rn

[lucid jackal]

U said if a spec needs aura buffs, its poorly deisnged

[finite carbon]

In your opinion

[rocky ocean]

actually I think they are all shit

[finite carbon]

If you say ret, I’m going to strangle you btw

[runic trail]

Sir did you get lost, I thought you never ventured into the ninja channel

[rocky ocean]

like everyone lacks something

[finite carbon]

I was summoned by the sounds of fighting and now scapegoating

[lucid jackal]

Okay if every spec is bad what the fuck are u doing playing

[finite carbon]

Okay then why are you here?

Granted I also don’t like this line of reasoning

But at the same time

[runic trail]

Oh, okay. Carry on. We'll postpone your inevitable reroll to sub for now.

[finite carbon]

If all the specs are bad

And have nothing

[rocky ocean]

I see where you are leading me to buy I'm playing exclusively because of friends

[finite carbon]

You find well designed

Even if you have friends

Like

Okay

Let’s get you the benefit of the doubt

What spec is CLOSE to what you considered well designed

[finite carbon]

Fuck this ninja spec

Pirate life for life

[rocky ocean]

df arms was nice

[runic trail]

Red name

[lucid jackal]

So okay every spec in the game is poorly designed except DF arms GG

[finite carbon]

[rocky ocean]

I'm not a hater btw, just sharing opinions

[runic trail]

[lucid jackal]

I think I can define you as a hater fairly easily

[rocky ocean]

in my defence it's because this game has a lot of flaws. I just happen to focus on some of them (bigger ones in my opinion)

[lucid jackal]

I would agree but I don't think "Doing aura buffs" is a problem

[rocky ocean]

thats fair

[finite carbon]

Arms in df was weird

[rocky ocean]

you press mortal strike, you press op, you press execute
life is good

[finite carbon]

Spec had a lot of internal problems but sadly it was problems the majority of the community outside of diehard arms player don’t know about

Mostly resource based

[rocky ocean]

btw what's sub getting for s3

[sly shore]

Nice changes and buffs to all 3 specs

[rocky ocean]

I also think they removed shadow dust because they arent competent enough balancing this shit

[void ocean]

morning kings

what a lovely day

[round latch]

trully a rainy one in this extreme heat

most welcome

[tribal blade]

@leaden prairie

[haughty mural]

Morning fellow subs
Didn’t think they would touch nimble again before midnight
We take those

and 5% is always not too bad

[void ocean]

we r surely S tier now 😄

[runic trail]

Always have been

[void ocean]

we might need another letter

[dreamy badger]

W tier

[haughty mural]

Idgaf about s tier

It was a great change regardless

[vale osprey]

Did they FINALLY fix the shadow blades bug?

[runic trail]

Su tier, just us and the SV hunters

[grand wyvern]

I heard it's a buff not a bugfix 🤣 🤣

[vale osprey]

Most unhinged way to fix a bug you've ignored for 2 tiers 🙃

[hollow spear]

It's not a fix, it's just a number increase to emulate a fix

But that's alright to me

[chrome palm]

wait how is not a fix

it didnt interact with blades, now it does

how could they fix it further

[verbal adder]

The dmg is manually increased, shadow blades doesnt actually apply to nimble flurry

[chrome palm]

yes but it is functionally the same now

[hollow spear]

Yeah maybe it's being too pedantic

[verbal adder]

It wont deal shadow damage if i understand correctly

[chrome palm]

thats very true

hopefully the wording points to 80% then

that is kinda what it seems like to me

they worded it very strangely

[verbal adder]

80 would be so good

[hollow spear]

The changes are not in yet?

If they tried to "fix" the bug by implementing this, it should be 72%

If they just slapped something on, it could be 80%

[ornate heron]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

isnt amped by dark brew like it would be if it were fixed

probably

[haughty mural]

Ah then I misread it

Went over too fast

They just added „if blades on nimble dmg increases by 20%“

[hollow spear]

With the question being is it multiplicative or additive

[haughty mural]

Probably too hard to implement the blades dmg and shadow part correctly

[hollow spear]

Can't wait to find out it's bugged and actually doesn't work

[haughty mural]

But it’s a win nonetheless

[nova cairn]

Out the person!

[tribal blade]

haha nah

[nova cairn]

I am now sorting out my sub gear ready for next season

Sub is in a very good spot now

[tribal blade]

he doesn't actually talk in the channel anyways

nice to hear

hopefully they don't pull what they did this season

[nova cairn]

What did they do this season

[tribal blade]

and nuke sub because it's performing well at the very start but doesn't scale like other specs

sub gained most of it's power at the start of this season

[short radish]

Surely not this season. End of s1 we were kinda strong right

[sour forum]

3rd season in a row where i prog with sub for 2-3 weeks and then i have to change all my gear to assa again?

[tribal blade]

then we got left behind and left to rot at the bottom of the raid charts

[short radish]

Whereas this we are very average

[tribal blade]

yeah the small rework helped

[nova cairn]

Ohh shit

[short radish]

And everyone will take the 18% nerf

Plus whatever helm is

[hollow spear]

This season our trinket coming in isn't op

[native zodiac]

I was about to say transmitter kinda ruined us

[hollow spear]

How does prism compare for us vs hoc if you sim it ilvl neutrally?

[sour forum]

Cant say i miss looking for that shitty orb

[tribal blade]

it was pretty funny, sub was the ONLY spec at the bottom of the charts that didn't recieve buffs for like 2-3 tuning cycles

till sub was dead last

[native zodiac]

The best part of this season was that 10% they did on accidcent

[keen dome]

That was a fun day.

[tribal blade]

weren't even top of the meters with accidental double buff 🙂

[keen dome]

But it was FUN

[nova cairn]

My guy

How you been

[keen dome]

I think we might get a teeny aura buff between now and week 1 (With the 6th being week 0). Doubtful we get a nerf, they seem happy with where we are at. Just.. bug fixes. Poison toggle.. QoL fixes. Blizz, please.

[native zodiac]

P good, looking forward to next season, you?

[nova cairn]

Same buddy

[native zodiac]

What guild are you in now

[haughty mural]

We just did get an aura

[keen dome]

We did? When?

[dreamy badger]

How are they happy with rogue if they slap a couple % on it every other week?

[keen dome]

Because there's a difference between aura tuning and making actual changes. They seem happy with how Sub plays.

[dreamy badger]

Yea idk about that

[haughty mural]

5% aura plus the nimble thing

[keen dome]

Oh, that was a while back though, no?

[haughty mural]

Tonight

[tight sparrow]

Lashga's back to subtlety :)))))))

[haughty mural]

As in 6h ago

[keen dome]

Damn, I missed it. So my prediction was accurate but I just didn't pay attention!

[haughty mural]

Check eleems pin (:

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

That's pretty much what I meant - so it literally happened and I didn't know hahaha

[vestal escarp]

Man if they post notes at 3 am i cant shitpost on time

[steel zinc]

I did actually sim this and prism in a 5min sim is 0.8% better if both are 684

I don't have the sim anymore can rerun later

[keen dome]

That SB + NImble thing is interesting. I wonder how much spaghetti exists to make it work properly

[steel zinc]

Tbf pretty easy if blades up then nimble go up coefficient x

[vestal escarp]

I think it's gonna be janky at release

[keen dome]

You'd think so, yeah.

[haughty mural]

Yea it’s not a fix per se

But it interacts now

[vestal escarp]

Weird choice instead of whitelisting nimble dmg for shblades

[haughty mural]

So we take those

[keen dome]

It's a very roundabout way to fix it, so I guess it must be a pretty.. complex? awkward? actual fix.

[vestal escarp]

Considering it goes against armor

[haughty mural]

Yea my thoughts

[steel zinc]

The whole coup with nimble doesn't work in the code. Since coup is death from above just a hacked different spell

[keen dome]

Yeah

[steel zinc]

It's like making convoke a melee spell

Won't work

[keen dome]

melee convoke is a fun idea though

give it to warrior

[haughty mural]

Also only god knows if it is additive

[frigid schooner]

is that the not so stable guy?

[void ocean]

probably just one more if-else 😄

[hollow spear]

I wonder if the fix to 4p (2nd coup being buffed instead of 1st) actually changes the way we approach symbols

In certain scenarios

[void ocean]

to supercharge 2 coups?

[leaden prairie]

its the guy that got boosted to r1 sub in s1

[frigid schooner]

[hollow spear]

Coup symbols sectec coup

[random comet]

saw the opportunity and paid for it, respect the game

[hollow spear]

#1 rogue on the p2w ladder

Ig it's easier/cheaper to pay your way to r1 if the competition doesn't play the spec

[teal prawn]

Must be why that guy keeps mentioning him and also keeps saying title should go to .1 spec and not .1 all dps. Certainly wouldn’t be a ban evader

[severe vapor]

are we back ?

[steel zinc]

w00t?

[steel zinc]

kinda now buttom middle of the pack

we are now where DH is

[leaden prairie]

waht

[steel zinc]

boost to r1?

[leaden prairie]

lashga

ye

you didnt know or what

[steel zinc]

no I didnt that you can boost that much. Like yeah CE and title

but R1

[teal prawn]

No one played sub in s1

[steel zinc]

did he get title?

What was S1 cutoff?

He has now title

He buys every season boost?

because this is then omega cringe to write R1 and then get boosted

[leaden prairie]

r1 sub bro

that was like

3k io

[steel zinc]

You are actually a gamer zac you paly the highest keys on stream

[teal prawn]

Pretty sure you can check his keys and he did all of them once

[carmine portal]

haha

[steel zinc]

and this guys write fucking R1 sub rogue

[carmine portal]

I mean he's not technically wrong but it's not particularly impressive

[chrome palm]

[steel zinc]

Thats tbf a funny name

[chrome palm]

I don’t think he gets title this season

[carmine portal]

my partner nearly got 3k in their first season ever playing the game, not quite the same as going band for band with 4k players

[chrome palm]

Unless he starts buying

[warm marlin]

ye he’s turbo cringe

[chrome palm]

Nah bro his silent storm build was ahead of its time for sure

[warm marlin]

I go his stream a couple times for fun and he’s perma flaming people in his keys for “being boosted”

Very curious

[leaden prairie]

Very curious

[steel zinc]

imo buying title is really cringe because it hinders legit players from getting it

CE is w/e

I can understand buying the gally mount

[carmine portal]

dont understand people that tie so much of their self worth into things like rank 1. i would feel SO much worse looking back if i know I bought a boost rather than looking back at whatever legit IO I got

[warm marlin]

can u imagine ban evading to go into a discord to write this in the third person about yourself

[chrome palm]

Man I really need to time cinderbrew as sub lol

[warm marlin]

imagine the ego

[keen dome]

And then it causes this conversation

[teal prawn]

I physically cringed

[carmine portal]

just did a 12 yday up from an 8, was fun

[steel zinc]

he is R1 you have to respect

[chrome palm]

He is kicking his feet up in the air right now reading this

[cloud rover]

They get got, got gaught and get played

[keen dome]

Haha

[carmine portal]

maybe we're all simply jealous we're not rank 1

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/cute202-gif-20765606

[keen dome]

I'm going for the real rank 1

rank 1 never logging off

[steel zinc]

Holy

Gotta block that guy

[carmine portal]

rank 1 most +2's bricked

[warm marlin]

ye its super cringe

[keen dome]

does he mean himself

[steel zinc]

I thought the exact same thing

[chrome palm]

🙏 Cyprus falls into the sea 🙏

[carmine portal]

Cyprus is great

[mighty citrus]

was fb sin so far behind last sub iteration, that this buff is only catch up? it sounds pretty strong though

[leaden prairie]

what, is this him or

[warm marlin]

relatively sure ya

[chrome palm]

Made account and joined on same day

[steel zinc]

it was bugged as hell and they fixed some stuff also not playable in aoe for sin so yes

[keen dome]

Who else is going to bring him up like that, tbh.

[chrome palm]

Rogue “””one”””

[warm marlin]

somehow mildly more subtle than the first time he ban evaded and joined

[cloud rover]

Why do you all care about him

best way is to ignore him

Dont feed the troll

[chrome palm]

It’s kinda funny

[carmine portal]

"Don't feed him" implies he actually gets anything out of this

he's getting dunked on by 10 randoms

he's probably in tears

[warm marlin]

1. its funny and 2. feeding the troll suggests he wants it ya

[leaden prairie]

meh i dont think its him

[teal prawn]

Why’s he want title based on spec ranks so bad then

[carmine portal]

Yeah I'm sorry but no1 wants that. It should be the players who play at the highest standard and the most consistently. I don't want random aug evokers at 3k getting title simply because they play smth shit

[warm marlin]

[teal prawn]

Idk. I think it encourages diversity instead of fotm meta stuff. But I can see arguments against it

[carmine portal]

🕵️

[leaden prairie]

hm

to me it was a viewer but

your proof might be irrefutable

[carmine portal]

that legit sounds like smth I would've said about my main on a runescape alt in 2008

"Wow have you heard of this guy? Isn't he awesome guys."

[tribal blade]

do we think rogueone is lashga

is he back

[warm marlin]

he was instabanned in like 1 day not too long ago because he came in as "subtletygodx" as a fresh 0day old account and then memed on pride people once again

so maybe trying a more tactical approach

[carmine portal]

I think the degree of not playing FOTM for title would change very little tbh. There's a reason title is looked on with some prestige

[leaden prairie]

also he said he was 37

idk how old lashga is

but could be the last proof

[tribal blade]

iirc lashga said he had kids

maybe

[lapis hatch]

Yo sub chat

[leaden prairie]

36 sorry

[carmine portal]

he's 35 or so it says in his RIO profile

[carmine portal]

this

[warm marlin]

[lapis hatch]

Is the buff gonna equal out since mastery trinket was nerfed

For ptr numbers that is

[warm marlin]

this proof seems damning

[lapis hatch]

Not 5% ig

[lapis hatch]

He could’ve wrote that a year ago

[leaden prairie]

[teal prawn]

Maybe it would just be good players carrying all their alts of different specs to title range one by one but idk. Individual spec rankings could open up some invites for worse specs at the top end

[leaden prairie]

he needs to update his raider io page

[vestal escarp]

Zac zac

[chrome palm]

No 5% is a lot more than what crystal gave us

[vestal escarp]

What do you think about putlaw tuning round

[carmine portal]

I think it'd just make the very top end of play more bubbled. Instead of getting invited because "perhaps he's good at an off-meta spec" but you'd get declined because "defo some title hunter playing random dogwater"

[vestal escarp]

This round

[lapis hatch]

Thank god

[clever delta]

fuu do we have data about that nimble buff in blades yet or its not on ptr yet? @vale pine

[chrome palm]

And then it depends on how the nimble change is implemented

Could be a slight buff or a bigger buff

[carmine portal]

I see arguments for and against, but I'm not sure it really adds anything

[lapis hatch]

Progress on this end

[teal prawn]

It lets the non Meta spec tanks and healers get invites probably

[lapis hatch]

Not in outlaw side

[vale pine]

ptr is release candidate so should have everything

[carmine portal]

Doesn't every tank spec have ppl in title range atm?

[upper narwhal]

I just woke up and saw they fixed nimble flurry, guess I’m lucid dreaming

[chrome palm]

There is a lot of range in terms of what title is

[vale pine]

oh you mean the latest change

hmm unsure

[fallow nimbus]

Fw bp conditions all over the place again

[chrome palm]

200 points is a lot so you can do title on pretty much whatever

[leaden prairie]

they are tuning numbers while still not fixing any of the issues so idk, now canceling ks is worse which is objectively a bad change im sorry but without canceling ks its simply too long. Fatebound - trickster gaps get bigger, no good since fatebound is fatebound no one wanna play that shit damage profile, i think nerfing trickster aoe instead of buffing fb aoe (or fixing hwy fb aoe is so trash) would have been better, idk overall just number goes up idc

[fallow nimbus]

Putlaw, more like put them out of their misery, am i right?

[steel zinc]

It isn't they said changes in the next days

[vale pine]

its easy to test once we get the change

so no problem

[lapis hatch]

Best way to buff ks would be same damage but in smaller channel

[vale pine]

KS is already played

so not sure it needs a buff

[chrome palm]

Was anyone wanting scuffed fists of fury anyways

[vale pine]

but more damage is good

[fallow nimbus]

Channel reduced by haste up to the lvl of gcd reduction of ar

[lapis hatch]

I mean they buffed damage % of it on tuning

[steel zinc]

I told you gotta doom more then buffs come

[chrome palm]

Isn’t KS similar damage to BTE now?

[lapis hatch]

Same damage with shorter channel would be better at least

[chrome palm]

I saw (one) graph

[vestal escarp]

I thought you were mad at aoe nerfs

[vale pine]

lol

[steel zinc]

If we doom more like other classes we get more buffs. Compared to other Class Discords this Ravenhold is so not dooming. 😄

[carmine portal]

U've probs been asked 100 times @vale pine but what made you want to go from simply a player to a theorycrafter for a class/spec?

[vale pine]

I mean 5% baseline buff is good

[mighty citrus]

would i take current sims and just add up 5% dmg or would that be wrong

[nova cairn]

Sub gonna be pretty good now on the damage amps that’s for sure

[chrome palm]

Damage from trinkets enchants and whatever isn’t buffed by that

Reshii wraps etc

So usually like half a percent less or something

[vale pine]

its more like 4% or so

but ye

[chrome palm]

Or sometimes they just round that shit up if you’re boomkin

And 8% = 9%

[leaden prairie]

i kinda am, everytime they nerf outlaw bf i think its an issue, maybe not imediate but at some point in the future but oh well whatever

[steel zinc]

yeah sadly no fixes to finality I assume

So thats just a buff that finality bug gives us

[chrome palm]

Still another week keep huffing it

[steel zinc]

The cloak is op with the boots. Its like 5-8% of your damage

Thats some big power gain imo

[vale pine]

adding shadowblades to nimble is more for consistency

[leaden prairie]

less now

[vale pine]

it makes sense to have more dps during cooldowns

[steel zinc]

they buffed the dmg one like 4 hours ago

[leaden prairie]

the boots were 150% but it actually got reverted

now its 50%

[steel zinc]

just how they added it no one knows yet.

[distant bison]

do you have to raid for the boots?

[steel zinc]

ohh yeah you wrote that yesterday

[carmine portal]

yes

[steel zinc]

just do heroic?

[keen dome]

Yes, they drop from the council fight.

[steel zinc]

its like the 5th boss

[carmine portal]

Optional from DH boss, 1 boot per 10 ppl in the raid

[keen dome]

But Heroic is 40% and Mythic is 50% iirc? So you can just get Heroic and it's fine

[steel zinc]

1 boot per 10 man

[north schooner]

new conspiracy theory dropped this morning

[distant bison]

are we gonna get dinar system again?

[vale pine]

worse case its a shift in damage towards blades

[leaden prairie]

Ok it's basically confirmed

[carmine portal]

And I don't believe duplicates can be rolled on so they'll always be dished out to ppl who dont have them

[chrome palm]

Shifting damage into blades is really good for raid though

[north schooner]

it does seem like a few too many coincidences

[leaden prairie]

i was on the fence but the weapon + age + key level

common

[steel zinc]

if your in a decent guild you will have hc boots in like week 4 latest

[leaden prairie]

[carmine portal]

im a guildless loser

[north schooner]

and the subtle self glazing

[keen dome]

Pugging is pretty chill. Heroic is doable.

[steel zinc]

If you play this game as a que simulator then get a guild. The game gets 1000X better to find likeminded people even if it takes a while. And you play rogue legit every guild is looking for one

[steel zinc]

What are you doing for prog? Like your crafting sword full OL? Since you play in a good guild

[leaden prairie]

i play sub lol

[keen dome]

Sub numbers go up

[carmine portal]

I'll pug and raidlead my own grps for sure and go from there

[leaden prairie]

only sub players dont know how strong sub is eevery prog

me as a non sub player

i know

[keen dome]

that's true

[vale pine]

[keen dome]

It's because our damage is subtle

[vale pine]

you would not see that many subtlety in splits before the latest round of buffs

simply because sin got baseline buffs

now with sub also getting baseline buffs

[carmine portal]

it's the technique we have that is particularly secret

[leaden prairie]

ye more outlaws

[vale pine]

no mostly assassiantion

because it got baseline buffs

but with buffs on sub now

[leaden prairie]

I mean that's simply not true tho

[vale pine]

well

[warm marlin]

But their tier was so bad

[leaden prairie]

Sub simmed the best of the 3 specs already

[warm marlin]

is so bad

[chrome palm]

Outlaw in for demon hunter splits

[vale pine]

thats not true

[leaden prairie]

And the last 2 bosses are damage amp

[warm marlin]

Isn’t the ds tier like 12% total?

[leaden prairie]

and fatebound isnt real

[keen dome]

Sub season, sub season

[vale pine]

tier profiles on ptr without the latest rounds of buffs

[steel zinc]

before the buffs today sin was like 3% ahead from my sub spec on my main

[vale pine]

again its mostly about baseline, if you get baseline changes it means you are stronger early

[clever delta]

what happened that we sim less than assa

wtf

[leaden prairie]

oh you meaen

before tier ?

[vale pine]

yes

[leaden prairie]

but who cares about that tho

[vale pine]

tier set was also in favor of sin for output

because you only needed 2p

[leaden prairie]

what

Ok but sub has a 30% tier set kekw

[alpine wraith]

it will depend on the strat for guilds sub will be kinda fine

kinda

[vale pine]

fatebound however has some downsides

[steel zinc]

its hc play w/e

[alpine wraith]

even on M you can play w/e most of the time as rogue

[steel zinc]

during split I play sin or sub and enjoy either of them

[vale pine]

and bosses might fit sub profile better

[alpine wraith]

not like you will be top 10 dps

[vale pine]

so ye

[carmine portal]

speak for urself

[warm marlin]

The sub trickster tier is like 2.5-3x as good as the assa ds tier tho which is what will matter on the hard bosses

[steel zinc]

skill issue just press buttons better then others

[alpine wraith]

what i like is some bosses seem good for us at least

[alpine wraith]

the secret tech is to raid with worse people

[carmine portal]

im closing in on rank 1 as we speak

[alpine wraith]

imagine being in a guild with 3 dps devs and MM

or dks

[void ocean]

u go gurl...

[alpine wraith]

im about to hit 3k im a beast

i was told

[vale pine]

cooldown alignment matters a lot

[chrome palm]

I have a crazy idea on how you can rank 1 sub you just need some gold and 4 4000 io friends

[void ocean]

is it a new meme, r1 with 3k? 😄

[carmine portal]

hahah

[alpine wraith]

yea i just lack the 4 4000 io friends

that i just met this week

[carmine portal]

ppl want title tied to spec rather than class/IO as a whole

[steel zinc]

4/8 bosses have insane damage amps 1 out of those is in execute 2 out of those bosses have the dmg amp at ~1:30

[drifting fable]

im 2999 rn

need 1 +13 to get the mount.

idk if ill make it

before the end of season

[alpine wraith]

this weekend you will hit trust

[steel zinc]

Last boss I dont know the timings but if its also 1:30 you will see 2 rogues. Also rogues can cheese the endboss main mechanic

[drifting fable]

not trying till monday

im going on a trip

and not coming back till monday

[alpine wraith]

damn trips

[carmine portal]

Where u going?

[chrome palm]

Bro time a 12

[drifting fable]

its all or nothing.

[chrome palm]

List a 13 as 12

[carmine portal]

mental warfare

[alpine wraith]

whoops sorry guys

[chrome palm]

Wait for some gearedish group and then slam the 13 in

Guys I forgot to lower it

[carmine portal]

i do the same but in reverse

I list my 2 as a 10

[drifting fable]

beach

[carmine portal]

hope the weather is nice for u

[drifting fable]

ya its awesome here

[carmine portal]

im off to italy 2nd week of patch

sadge

[drifting fable]

somehow

[hollow spear]

What did you just call us?

[drifting fable]

rip

[void ocean]

mount >>> beach

[carmine portal]

it's fine I will be filled with nice food and wine and be coming home to my ACTUAL Pc and not my GFs

which will be nice

[hollow spear]

Didn't even know Lashga was banned 😅

[carmine portal]

oh and my dog

[hollow spear]

Did he post too many useless stat sims?

[warm marlin]

Pride month incident

[chrome palm]

If you post a build with silent storm that shit is a bannable offense

[hollow spear]

Ohno

[carmine portal]

Isn't silent storm just a worse rotten

[chrome palm]

You have a path through a util node as well

[hollow spear]

"pride month incident", I like the wording

Why am I not surprised

[drifting fable]

what happen

[void ocean]

why is ur dog banned

[warm marlin]

a simple rainbow colored icon causes some to furiously froth at the mouth

[carmine portal]

I mean i'll be coming home to my PC and my dog, not that my dog is banned

he's too cute to be banned

[hollow spear]

Is there a rainbow dave?

[void ocean]

its called latent homosexuality 😄

[hollow spear]

You sure it's latent?

[keen dome]

Back when I wasa Destiny 2 PvP sweatlord, I used the pride emblem. The sheer volume of hate I got because I was kicking their ass and had pride colours owned

[void ocean]

might not be

[keen dome]

WoW should add pride flags I can use in pvp

[hollow spear]

Kinda funny how much people care about other people's business

[void ocean]

Pride Flagellation 😄

[carmine portal]

same thing happens when u play the gay operators in Rainbow6 Siege

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah, Siege was great for it too

[hollow spear]

I only play smooth operators

[keen dome]

I played Sledge

He has a hammer

Everybody else has some big special hyper advanced gadget but my boy sledge has a sledgehammer and that's his gimmick

[placid shuttle]

How much overall buff we got

[carmine portal]

god i love siege so much

[sly shore]

Bought tree fiddy

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/why-are-you-why-are-you-gay-pepe-julian-who-is-gay-you-are-gay-gif-15004128

[hollow spear]

Simple math would say around 250k dps

Maybe some dr in there

[placid shuttle]

That's pretty good

[carmine portal]

Oh fuck i mean uhh god i love sub so much, god sub is so much fun

[chrome palm]

Wait until trinket tuning and then the 2min classes catch a nerf 🥰

[vale pine]

execute might be a sin fight then

[placid shuttle]

How will the shadow blades buff work?

[void ocean]

man im being called gay in my guild just bc someone found some fanfic about Mathias Shaw and Flyn Fairwind

[steel zinc]

2nd boss is execute

25% damage amp from 50% onwards

with bl

[placid shuttle]

Does it mean that nimble will do 80% on cash?

Cds

[hollow spear]

We don't know yet

Has to be tested

[keen dome]

they're married. Sub and Outlaw. United forever.

[void ocean]

oh cmoon, at least marry an assa

we have standards ffs

[keen dome]

Is Flynn an Ass or Outlaw rogue, hm.

I forget if he has double daggers or a sword and dagger.

[hollow spear]

In their current state, assa is a grandpa and outlaw is a zoomer

[placid shuttle]

80% nimble on cds would be epic

[carmine portal]

Flynn has a sword if you KNOW WHAT I MEAN

[void ocean]

i mean considered his last name its probably outlaw

[placid shuttle]

Worth the 5% overall

[void ocean]

Fairpoison would be assa

[keen dome]

Ye. I forget what abilities he uses. He's a rogue npc (same as Mathias) and has energy, uses some basic rogue abilities but I forget ifthey made him specifically outlaw (Pistol Shot is the ability they tend to have if they are) or not

It's really hard to check because the only consistent way to see what he does is in the alliance side boralus defense thing where he shows up

[hollow spear]

Forge nerf?

[chrome palm]

Surely

[void ocean]

do we even have a notable assa npc

[chrome palm]

Valeera 🥰

[void ocean]

Voss is sub as well, right?

[carmine portal]

obvs

she's a deathstalker

[void ocean]

but assa has ds too

[keen dome]

Valeera, Garona, Voss

[stiff stirrup]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

Garona is the big one because, well. Aritfact daggers haha

[void ocean]

yea, she is a kings bane

[keen dome]

Uh, what's his name. The goblin guy

[carmine portal]

Lillian voss is Sub

she has that trait in the Legion mission table

[keen dome]

Marin Noggenfogger. He's an assa rogue iirc

[void ocean]

Renzik

[keen dome]

I guess she's a DS Sub rogue

[carmine portal]

Same with Tess greymane

[slate marlin]

No wonder we see nothing of her then, negative dmg

[keen dome]

Haha

[carmine portal]

fr

[leaden prairie]

varas, you can even interact with him in the assa channel from time to time

[void ocean]

wowpedia says outlaw

[maiden oar]

do you need to try really hard to not proc tea automatically

[void ocean]

but Id expect Renzik "The Shiv" to be assa

assa shivs the most

[chrome palm]

Err

Was assa 💀

[alpine wraith]

yea marin is outlaw

but yea for assa i would put valeera and garona

[void ocean]

he could come back... Lilian Voss did 😄

[north schooner]

undead goblin new allied race?

[hollow spear]

Yeah, now I need the trinket tuning injected into my veins and I'm zen

MM nerfs are just the icing on the cake

[neon crag]

eyo anyone can teach me how to play sub in pvp ?

[hollow spear]

#pvp

[warm marlin]

3.5 minute prism max stack cap, forge slight nerf, and then ban all 2min specs from looting prism

and buff it too for good measure

[hollow spear]

You're really going balls to the wall mate

[warm marlin]

There’s a line to toe here man

[graceful crown]

wut

[hollow spear]

I expect forge to get nerfed

[warm marlin]

it can’t be too good or else it’s never gonna go to us

[graceful crown]

KEKW

[chrome palm]

Ww got a tier nerf

[graceful crown]

when? didnt see that

[hollow spear]

I'm in my rl's dms right now gaslighting him

Literally in the same notes lmao

[graceful crown]

ah

haste

oh they buffed us

:O

[warm marlin]

and they assassinated the shadow pan tier

[jade urchin]

holy moly these changes for all 3 rogue specs look amazing

[graceful crown]

again they reduced outlaw aoe dmg for ST

[pearl swan]

ST is an aoe buff

[graceful crown]

meeeeeeh

[pearl swan]

5Head

[alpine wraith]

the changes are quite good

[graceful crown]

cant they stop touching nimble flurry dmg?

its impossible right?

[chrome palm]

Probably will now

[jade urchin]

its our psychic link equivalent

[warm marlin]

Our only dks are alts and our hunters and wws are dooming so maybe there’s hope

[alpine wraith]

they decided fuck it and didnt fix it just made blades amp it

[lilac stag]

I’m curious if they’re actually enough. we shall see

[alpine wraith]

that makes sense

well it might not be enough for m+

[graceful crown]

Nimble Flurry now deals a matching percent of increased damage while Shadow Blades is active

[alpine wraith]

but noticeable

[graceful crown]

oh they did it

:o

[alpine wraith]

yea now only need for nimble to work with main target of sec tech

and we gold

[jade urchin]

i mean, with how close balancing has been so far were defo not in a bad spot after RWF if i had to guess

[graceful crown]

isnt this changes making sub top rogue spec right now?

or im drunk

[lilac stag]

need another BP buff

[jade urchin]

all look pretty good i feel like its just preference/damage profile at this point

[alpine wraith]

sub will be quite good in the raid

[graceful crown]

Manaforge Omega 2-set bonus – Now increases effectiveness of Deathstalker damage effects and bonuses by 40% (was 50%).

[alpine wraith]

yea that one is a big ??¿¿

[graceful crown]

for sub only

[alpine wraith]

they forgot to put 140% instead of 40

[graceful crown]

hahha

[alpine wraith]

with how bad the set is

[graceful crown]

gosh blizz

i hate you

[jade urchin]

no keep up the great work blizz i dont wanna play deathstalker

[lilac stag]

We can’t delete it, but just don’t play it. or there’s some cooked build we just haven’t sorted out.

[graceful crown]

hahaa

[alpine wraith]

yea they are like we'd rather you not suffer

and we like

OK

[graceful crown]

and they buffed DS for assa

[keen dome]

Damn, I'm surprised

[chrome palm]

[graceful crown]

haha i understand

[chrome palm]

Good guy blizzard

[graceful crown]

i was gonna play fire mage coz was the most "normal" damage of mage besides frost and arcane, i guess i was wrong

[alpine wraith]

fire mage is ADHD like outlaw some people might like it

i prefer arcane

[merry agate]

The forbidden full haste "hunt them down" build would be overtuned

[lilac stag]

@vale pine are you planning on doing override sims or just waiting?

[alpine wraith]

data will likely drop on release patch day or earlier

[lilac stag]

my guess is tomorrow

[alpine wraith]

actually yea friday seems good

[vale pine]

i can do a overwrite for the 5%

but i can't for the nimbe buff

[void ocean]

gotta get down on Friday

[vale pine]

so unsure

if it makes sense

[lilac stag]

mmh

[alpine wraith]

nimble is a bit weird becuase it is a new entry

[vale pine]

nimble needs to be tested how it works

[lilac stag]

4.2% buff or whatever

[alpine wraith]

so they need to add it

[vale pine]

its like 4% ye

[lilac stag]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

because it wont be a 20% flat but armor shenanigans

likely

actually this buff may make pacemaker a bit better than cosmic

[graceful crown]

Cold Blood cooldown now begins immediately upon use and has a 15 second max duration.
Is this a kekw change?

didnt see that

[plucky parrot]

It’s for fb sin mostly

Inconsequential for sub

[lilac stag]

It’s a big positive for assa

[graceful crown]

didnt know assa used cold blood

[mint swift]

I mean bliz knows assa barely exists
compared to outright forgetting the other two

So it was targeted at assa

[lilac stag]

An entire hero tree is using it

[alpine wraith]

it is for fatebound thingies

[graceful crown]

still, didnt know assa was using FB

:o

[alpine wraith]

well they did some changes

[graceful crown]

hummm

[alpine wraith]

but i think they kinda hate it

[graceful crown]

i guess, yeah

haha

[north schooner]

[vale pine]

Quick sim for the 5% aura buff:
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pEKYgvrRQBD4tUjRAcydof

so its 4.3% dps

[graceful crown]

shadow blades dmg on nimble flurry is gonna be harder to sim i guess right

[vale pine]

it needs to be tested

as eleem mentioned in the pin

[plucky parrot]

!fuu

[vale pine]

it might be no impact of a buff

but unless we get an implementation

we don't know

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[graceful crown]

okey thanks

[vale pine]

with pre pull shananigan
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qJW27oYjGd92kNG6VvCqAM

so its like