subtlety

[tribal blade]

floodgate has a lot of checks

you have dps check on big momma

then heal check on swampface

[void ocean]

id usually be late to hide

[keen dome]

don't forget the intelligence check on swampface

I have seen things

[lilac stag]

this season is 8 dawn breakers for vault and log out

[tribal blade]

haha at least on high keys nobody fucks up swampface mechanics

[void ocean]

I heard fun stories about KS on swamp boss

[keen dome]

My favourite of which was a 12 FG where the tank commited murder on the healer on wampface

[tribal blade]

it's just living the dmg

the dmg going out on that fight is wild

[keen dome]

Yeah I can imagine

How's the final guy on high keys?

He's such a nothing fight on lower

[tribal blade]

not too bad tbh

so long as you're not an idiot

[keen dome]

The biggest thing I see on lower keys is people blowing up pools with the frontal

[vestal escarp]

As long as you dont get puddles trolled

[tribal blade]

one of the biggest issues tends to be people stealing puddles to greed uptime

[keen dome]

haha

[tribal blade]

because everyone in high keys wants to never have downtime

because muh overall

[shadow lance]

Flood is tough but got a cool design imo

[tribal blade]

seen tanks get screwed out of their puddle a few times lol

[keen dome]

Haha

Priory is the one I'm scared of revisiting

[tribal blade]

speaking of not wanting to have downtime, i lost 2 20 MLs yesterday to people greeding uptime on last boss

[runic trail]

Sometimes you get the urge to hit shadowstep

[tribal blade]

and exploding the rockets in the group

1 was a warr who leaped last second and killed me

[shadow lance]

I won't lie, happened to me with ss 0,5 sec too early

[tribal blade]

i hate that boss, it blows

horribly designed

[keen dome]

yeah

[shadow lance]

I hate when overlap are cringe

[keen dome]

ML was the key I had the absolute hardest time with on the 12 / 13 range

Extremely easy at 10. 12 / 13? CURSED.

[shadow lance]

True, with ToP

[keen dome]

Whereas Pirory was so fucking chill at 12 / 13 and a nightmare on weekly

[shadow lance]

Easier to do in 15/16 than 12

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

haha priory is hell on earth

that key is out of control

[keen dome]

haha

[shadow lance]

I kinda like PSF

I hate DFC

Unpopular opinion

[tribal blade]

at least dfc is really easy to time

priory is REALLY hard

[keen dome]

I really like DFC except and this is a big one

[tribal blade]

once you go up in key level

[keen dome]

People doing the third boss trash skip on a 10

Or even a 12.

Please, why, why are you doing this skip. oh look you jumped off the wall and into the trash YOU VILLAIN.

[tribal blade]

hahaaaa

yeah there's no need to skip that on a 10

just W the key

easy time

[keen dome]

Yeah

Legit lost more time to trying to skip than just killing the trash

[tribal blade]

lost a 20 dfc last week to a warr walking into that trash pack

and killing half the group

[slate marlin]

Of those 11 runs half are by the russian god so

[hazy breach]

If you have some giga padder gamers its possible you could have your flags for the amp phases and sub would do big dmg too

[tribal blade]

mmm that sounds sexy as hell

[hazy breach]

Now with the +5s

Unfortunately its only 12 seconds of amp, so might not be insane

[tribal blade]

oh did they increase her amp phase?

[keen dome]

🫂

[hazy breach]

No

[tribal blade]

dw timed it after 😉

[hazy breach]

She takes 5 more seconds to put up her shield

[keen dome]

hell yeah

[tribal blade]

ahhh ok

[shadow lance]

With my tank, we shroud to it, pulling everything on it and big padding

[tribal blade]

so you can ramp more as sub

[hazy breach]

Well its not quite 90s inbetween them

Its more like 75-80

[tribal blade]

mmm i see

btw what spec are you playing at the start of next season eleem

[hazy breach]

Im always playing sub

[tribal blade]

for keys

tight

[hazy breach]

Until i feel like im griefing

[tribal blade]

i was thinking possibly just running bleed with iron wire and dummy proofing everything for my guildies

[hazy breach]

Ye that sounds solid

[shadow lance]

idiotproof strat

[tribal blade]

oh wait you can't run iron wire once you get new tier

you lose x2 shiv

unless it's fine to only run 1 shiv with DS tier

[shadow lance]

Not a big deal I think

I don't have tier in mind

[alpine wraith]

just do big crits

[tribal blade]

i imagined it would cut the DS tier set power in half

[alpine wraith]

if things dont die always blame someone else

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[shadow lance]

I don't think as bleeds, it's gonna be an issue to have 1 shiv

Cuz you'll just press on cd

I might be wrong

[hazy breach]

Ye but you have downtime inbetween packs n stuff so it adds up

[shadow lance]

Still a dps loss, ofc

But not that big

[hazy breach]

Ye not huge

[tribal blade]

oh ok i thought it would be a big loss

good to know

[shadow lance]

I mean, if you do weeklies as bleeds, you nearly don't have time to press a second shiv

Mobs die too fast

[lilac stag]

^ this

Even the 11-12 when first pushing 3k the second one was sketch

now good luck

[shadow lance]

Someone know if the the unparry bug is still up on ptr?

Yes, stuff upgrade + 2 sec longer shiv + 2p damages amp

[hazy breach]

Raidwide parry has been fixed on the ptr afaik

[shadow lance]

Damn

My RL won't be happy

[swift tinsel]

Glad to see their priorities in order

But hey, sub buff relative to other melee

[alpine wraith]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[lilac stag]

You’ll look better on the dmg meters.

[swift tinsel]

I’m just not gonna tell anyone lol

[lilac stag]

no one really knows about it

[swift tinsel]

They only look at their parse numbers

[lilac stag]

unless you were making a specific point and I doubt anyone actually cared

[swift tinsel]

I brought it up in s1 and havent said shit about it since

[alpine wraith]

i always told people

[lilac stag]

Warrior not killing themself with a charge > parryless on prog

[alpine wraith]

now is joever

[void ocean]

when did we start sayin "joever" 😄

[lilac stag]

dark Brandon times

[shadow lance]

Don't think so. I already have to fight 3 devoker to be visible in it

But I was kinda surpised when my RL told : I would pref you stay as sub for the parry thing. I was like, how do you know?

[lilac stag]

you need new evokers if they’re that low on the meters.

[shadow lance]

Not saying compete with them

[lilac stag]

[shadow lance]

They're taking the top 3 and I only show 6 first people

Harder to be visible cause of these lizards

And the fury warriors just playing to pads on adds

[alpine wraith]

top 6 is quite good

im like top 10 after less than 1 min

[lilac stag]

What do you think Sub plays for?

[shadow lance]

Do damages?

[lilac stag]

literally add pad

[shadow lance]

Yeah, was not playing sub on gally

Cuz, no need "add damages"

But on richard, people were happy

[lilac stag]

accurate representation if raid is competent.

[vestal escarp]

Comes the patch sin gets the 8% + all aimed buffs

Sub has to get tierset a week later and really fish for 4p to pick up

[lilac stag]

I’m still expecting a tier buff in some shape for assa if the percent is that low

[hazy breach]

Theyve designed it in a way where buffing it is kinda hard. The most feasible solution is to just overbuff the 2p

[lilac stag]

at least it’s not 2+2 for assa… right?

[hazy breach]

But making shiv/symbols longer is just kinda ass

And ig it could consume 2 marks, but thats just awkward

[lilac stag]

Yeah idk. Dmg or agility modifier added

[hazy breach]

Ye they need to add an extra tuning knob

[vestal escarp]

Time is over boys

[hazy breach]

Or just say fuckit and make the 2p worth 3x the 4p

[lilac stag]

Then we back to 2+2

[shadow lance]

Noobs evoker

[vestal escarp]

Undermine 2p is not that great

[lilac stag]

Assa 4p ain’t that great

idk just slap a 5% nature dmg to 4pc

And tune that

[alpine wraith]

remember how we ended up with an extra 40% amp on our plague dmg on DS

i smell another snapper snappy

DOUBLE IT

man beta was so silly

DOUBLE TRIPLE DOUBLE

DOUBLE AGAIN

[hazy breach]

It is what it is, hopefully they dont tinker much more with it so it stays dead for sub

[alpine wraith]

at this point

[tribal blade]

they really did a great job with rogue hero trees when we pray 1 tree stays dead

[alpine wraith]

just pls fix bugs

[tribal blade]

nope sorry can only fix beneficial bugs

[alpine wraith]

and we know you'll buff assa so just dont buff it twice to make sub useless

i dont mind them fixing all bugs even if they are beneficial

[lilac stag]

I’m curious how many actual updates we get before raid.

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i wouldn't care at all about them fixing the parry bug if that was accompanied by like 4-5 other bad bugs

[lilac stag]

other classes seem to think 2-3

[keen dome]

Day before patch goes live: big pass, imo

[alpine wraith]

at least tfd and rotten are fixed

now all the coup and nimble and shadowed

any DAY NOW

[keen dome]

And the tier set

[lilac stag]

Revisit this when it’s live.

[alpine wraith]

oh that would be so fun

if they version us again

[north schooner]

inb4 bad merge

[lilac stag]

Bad Merge
No Backup

copilot ate my backup

random bit of happiness

[steel zinc]

So guys no more balancing classes it's jover

[north schooner]

it's true ion said the next balance patch will be in wow 2.0 releasing in 5 years

[lilac stag]

only on XBox

[north schooner]

and you can only play with kinect

[steel zinc]

He said gamepass for more damage

Gotta get that season pass

[north schooner]

gamepass premium unlocks the mage class

[steel zinc]

Gotta fit the theme void elf dh

[north schooner]

true and with gamepass super premium Clippy joins you as your AI assistant to push the buttons for you

[keen dome]

i can push the buttons wrong for myself, thank you very much

[vale pine]

wdym just use one button

hmmm might play a diffrent spec/class for that

[alpine wraith]

yea who needs to use all spells in dance

just crit more

[vestal escarp]

One button has been truly a blessing, been logging in all my long forgotten lvl 60 alts to farm mounts this month and didn't even bother to see how they play rn

[carmine portal]

1buttoning my frost dk to clear delves for the seasonal background and undercoin

Pog

[alpine wraith]

it does help a lot on new players tbh

[thorn shoal]

hey guys, what spec do you think will be best for next patch?

[spice matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/pondering-the-orb-gif-13211537702542941358

[steel zinc]

Not a rogue spec

[thorn shoal]

😄

[steel zinc]

if your asking your doing content where you should just play w/e you want

[swift tinsel]

fdk, mm hunter

[vestal escarp]

Sub until sin buffs

[vale pine]

🤣

[thorn shoal]

just finished my bachelors and thought i wanna play till i start working 😄

[steel zinc]

enjoy play w/e spec you like

[vale pine]

^ don't overthink it

also congrats

[steel zinc]

yup

congrats 🙂

[thorn shoal]

ty guys 🙂

[alpine wraith]

you have time to watch and see what looks cool

[thorn shoal]

yeah ofc, but if i play i wanna perform good 😄

[alpine wraith]

you will perform good in our hearts as sub

even if you are 13 in the rankings

[thorn shoal]

and sub was always my fav

[spice matrix]

[steel zinc]

https://www.twitch.tv/casualaddict_

should help

its ptr

[graceful osprey]

I think any rogue spec if played well can perform fairly well so really, pick what you like. As for next season, I’m not sure what it looks like yet. I haven’t paid attention too much. A lot of us doom and gloom, but it’s usually for kicks and giggles surely.

[wild hornet]

i think itll be the exact same thing next season as it was this season

[silver onyx]

hello lads how is sub looking next ssn

[wild hornet]

the warcraftlog rankings are a lie

[sullen hare]

Very purple

[carmine portal]

Eh tbh it's not even looking that purple

[sullen hare]

*so* purple

[carmine portal]

Unless you guys have new visuals

[lucid jackal]

Sub good

[wild hornet]

bottom of rankings top of dps meters

never believe warcraftlogs

[sullen hare]

Blue name, "you guys"

[lilac stag]

The visuals are purple, you just can’t see them over the raid visuals and everyone else’s spell effects.

[sullen hare]

[wild hornet]

theres an assa organization thats sandbagging sub

trust

[lilac stag]

nah

[carmine portal]

"you guys" meaning I am only purple during dance, nothing else is purple

[sullen hare]

We can sandbag ourselves tyvm

[warm marlin]

there’s a sub organization sandbagging sub

[lilac stag]

sub will be top 4 dps in heroic and get nerfed week 2.

to give assa tier a buff

[silver onyx]

im getting mixed emotions

so are we broken or shit

[lilac stag]

Both

[silver onyx]

"yes." type answer

[sullen hare]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[lilac stag]

also don’t be emotional

[wild hornet]

brokenly shit

id rather use the OBR than play assa

[lilac stag]

There’s a lot of broken shit. Yes.
Will sub be broken dps? No. Not as of tuning today.
Will sub be fine in raid? Likely yes, but so will everyone else but Feral.

[wild hornet]

why isnt feral fine in raid

[lucid jackal]

Most ppl in here don't live in reality

[wild hornet]

arent they a walmart assa

[lucid jackal]

Sub looks good

[wild hornet]

sub is an underdog meta dps

people are just scared of the facts

[lilac stag]

Temo Assa

[lucid jackal]

Sub looks good

Sin might be better on some fights, if there is a mugzee situation again, but who knows

[sullen hare]

First of all I'm a master of reality. Oops, still drinking to mourn ozzy's passing

[lilac stag]

Tuning still in wild Wild West mode and specs have tier that just doesn’t work (enhance for example).

come back in 2 weeks

[lilac stag]

Hulkster trying to upstage Ozzy

[warm marlin]

You don’t want to be boomie at this stage anyway

Well boomie 2 weeks ago I guess

They got executed in that recent patch

[lilac stag]

just wait for Tettles to rally the flock

They’ll be fine

[warm marlin]

Yep

Hunter will somehow get a slap on the wrist into topping st every boss again

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for Aug to get one change and all of the sudden it’s meta again.

[warm marlin]

God I hope not

[lilac stag]

random dart board hit tuning

[wild hornet]

transitioning from ret to sub was my best life decision so far

unfortunately blizzard doesnt agree

[lilac stag]

havoc looking good if you don’t like momentum

[lilac stag]

Yeah that 6.9milly ST sim needs more bouffs Kalamazi

[patent lichen]

He's so cringe now lol

[lilac stag]

I think Aff is down with the rogue sim numbers.

but idk what else we’ve cooked if anything. Waiting for Fuu soonTM

[hazy breach]

Sim numbers

[warm marlin]

6.9? https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gJMwcuj6yUX7fxKqgYPLcY

PLEASE SEND MORE BUFFS!

[spice matrix]

warlocks are NOT human beings

[astral axle]

buh did you see the 24/7 Kalamazi stream

in case you wanna stream re-runs of... kalamazi?

[pine mirage]

How easy is sub

[carmine portal]

Not a mountain of buttons but CD useage/tracking is important. One too many Shadow Dances/Symbols of Deaths outside of your main 2 big CDs can really cuck you

[hazy breach]

Sub is not as hard as people make it out to be, but it plays quite differently than most other specs.

[carmine portal]

Hard is not how you should describe Sub, Unforgiving is.

[hazy breach]

Most specs press cds when its ready, sub generally sits with cooldowns ready for quite a while for the more opportune moment, which catches a lot of people offguard when trying it

But yes, if you screw up youll lose a lot of damage

[carmine portal]

Patience is good too, some classes can send CDs every pack and still have them up for the boss (Frost DK, Ret pally for example), and even then, if you have to wait for 10s at the boss start it's not the end of the world

[vale pine]

subtlety is punishing, thats most of the problem

also has a lot of unintuitive things

[carmine portal]

Cold blood CD is one that comes to mind

45s CD my ASS

[hazy breach]

Backstab in dance, cold blood, solo symbols without dances sometimes, sitting at 7 cp backstabbing a bit before flag, not using blades at the same time as dance+symbols

Weve got a ton of em

[lilac stag]

toss between coups.

[carmine portal]

My GF watches me play sometimes and always gets so confused when im sat backstabbing waiting for CDs to come up in like 7s

She plays outlaw lule

[crystal bone]

how much of a gain is the backstab spamming before cds?

[graceful osprey]

You learn how the “blow things up, nuke the target” pop CDs rotation and that’s essentially it. Mimic it again every 1.5 minutes and you’re golden. Big dopamine every 1.5 minutes

[hazy breach]

"spamming" is pushing it, its moreso not using a spender

So you have some sht stacks going into flag

[crystal bone]

ok so basically auto attacking

but using backstab to not overcap energy?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[carmine portal]

Well yeah but you want to be using backstab to still be doing SOME damage

[lilac stag]

Jesus take the wheel for sht stacks

[crystal bone]

what is "some" damage in this situation

[lilac stag]

no dmg

[carmine portal]

More than not pressing it

[spice matrix]

about how many seconds before flag do we want to stop using spenders for sht?

[crystal bone]

im probably doing sub for raid and then im not sure about keys

[hazy breach]

~10

[spice matrix]

ty

[graceful osprey]

I remember when backstab felt good, heck, it feels good in MOP classic right now

[carmine portal]

you'd need to get the whole US army to rip me off feral druid for MOP PvP

[crystal bone]

did u guys see they added a vers/mast neck in floodgate

the little things

[void ocean]

yes.

[carmine portal]

was desperate to change my 632 neck so crafted one holy MOLY thank god

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-gif-3417245934051922481

[crystal bone]

i wanna boop that nose

[pliant topaz]

lowkey only thing I miss about wow is watchign this dudes videos and laughing. was so fun

[warm marlin]

And to proc unseen blades to ready coup

[dry plank]

They are doing right things. Complain and moan no matter what

My god I’m old now I remember time when wlock was least played class and got no attention from devs. Dejavu

[pliant topaz]

nah i just enjoy hate watching kalamazi

everything he says is pure comedy gold to me

[runic kraken]

The blades thing is just the part where you use it with a finisher the gcd after doing symbols/dance builder, right? Or something else? 🤔

[hazy breach]

Yes

[runic kraken]

Okay thank you thought I was doing something wrong hehe.

[upper narwhal]

He lowkey gives me Gromnak vibes and I love it

[pliant topaz]

same

[dense stream]

black powder in 8+ targets?

[brittle plinth]

whys it gotta be black?

[north schooner]

because the light has gone out of its life after being part of sub

[hazy breach]

You would think so, but no.
BP At 5+ find weaknesses up
During blades its 3 or more find weaknesses

[sly shore]

@vale pine can you check wraps cloak vs regular cloaks when you run sims too

apparently wraps isn't too hot

for some classes

unless you have to use it on some bosses ofc

[hazy breach]

Well theres no other cloaks no?

[clever delta]

i was already told its healer prio

the boost 😄

[hazy breach]

And also the wraps has stats on it, the proc is just extra

[sly shore]

crafted?

[hazy breach]

I mean sure but its 10 ilvls lower, so its not gonna be better

Since the wraps has regular amount of stats

But ye the proc sucks, so the boots kinda sucks too

But they have good stats for us anyway

[lilac stag]

Tailors craft the wraps for it or gems or whatever it is.

[keen dome]

Ye, basically gems that give it any stats iirc.

filiments or something

[lilac stag]

i think they tried to eliminate it not being total shit for somem specs

[keen dome]

I imagine the proc'll get a buff or something at some point, too

[sly shore]

is it at all times it has the same amount of stats or after renown

because there may be times where it is worse

[iron spear]

honest question is sub annoying in mop, because we have to maintain s&d + multiple dots?

[lilac stag]

this aint classic

this is retail

dots and snd is whatever

[keen dome]

I'm trying to recall which bosses you need it on, too. I know it's quite a few.

[iron spear]

ah, yeah wrong channel, my bad

[lilac stag]

all good

[sly shore]

first and nexus-king for sure

[keen dome]

Final too

[lilac stag]

what>

[keen dome]

If it doesn't go tup in iLevel fast enough, as I think it goes up from renown rewards, it might have moments where a gilded craft could beat it?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt even scale with renown does it

[keen dome]

But I bet they buff the proc

[hazy breach]

The renown doesnt mention it at all

[lilac stag]

you level the cloak

[keen dome]

Oh, I thought the iLevel increaes were from renown.

[hazy breach]

Idk it might be

[keen dome]

Reaching rank 6 with the new Manaforge Vandals raid renown will further increase those secondary stats by an unspecified amount.

[lilac stag]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WwbpkS28CeZ7_lqqWLdumjZV7_kwJeGEUQ2O4dWenOc/edit?tab=t.0

[keen dome]

There's something in Renown I guess

[sly shore]

yeah person misunderstood it

[lilac stag]

the ilvl is weekly. the renown upgrades are seperate

[keen dome]

Aha

[hazy breach]

Is what i found, maybe this article is outdated https://www.wowhead.com/guide/raids/manaforge-omega/manaforge-vandals-renown

[lilac stag]

the boots also increast the PPM but that shit is hasted

[keen dome]

I'm just going from: https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-reshii-wraps-revealed-everything-we-know-about-the-new-artifact-in-patch-11-377357#renown-buff so it could also be outdated.

[lilac stag]

outlaw tier

[keen dome]

Your one is more recent, Eleem, so I tihnk that's more likely

[lilac stag]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/the-war-within/reshii-wraps-artifact-cloak-unlock-upgrade

[hazy breach]

Sounds from that document that the cloak upgrades are more like the belt/circlet upgrades

[lilac stag]

maybe make a !cloak for that link lol

[keen dome]

That'd be useful

It's timegated, so I guess there is a hypothetical point where a crafted could beat it for that specific week, depending on proc value for the class in question?

Seems like a lot of effort though.

[hazy breach]

Well you literally cant do like half the raid bosses without the cloak anyway

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

sure

[hazy breach]

So youre gonna be griefing by crafting a cloak either way

[lilac stag]

its legit 701 week 1

707 week of raid

[keen dome]

I'm just following the thought from above 'cos I thought it was interesting. I don't think it'd be remotely worth it at any point 'cos the gilded would be better put elsewhere.

[lilac stag]

no fing way youre using a craft on a cloak

that's more cooked than 85% of the shit in here lol

[keen dome]

I bet there's gonna be someone, somewhere, who crafts a gilded cloak this season

I'll bet you 5 whole gold, Scath

[lilac stag]

i'll be you somone complains about no cloaks in vault

5 whole gold

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[lilac stag]

🤝

[keen dome]

🤝

[lilac stag]

besides cloak has buff for best wow content, delves

[keen dome]

Also it's just a really nice looking cloak

[hazy breach]

Either way wowhead is 1000% going to clickbait another article about how the cloak works so we'll maybe pin that

[keen dome]

Probably multiple.

[left ledge]

Agreed

Maybe even with some bp buffs

[lilac stag]

i linked the guide

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/the-war-within/reshii-wraps-artifact-cloak-unlock-upgrade

[left ledge]

Dude fk

I wish they’d just buff black powder more

I’m tweaking

I want to press black powder everywhere at all times

Drop a hydrogen bomb every other gcd

[vale pine]

lol

[lilac stag]

take less drugs

or take more

[left ledge]

I’m getting bp buff withdrawal

[hazy breach]

Less is more sometimes

[lilac stag]

we could def use some less

[slate marlin]

less bugs , to be specific

[vale pine]

more power to secret

[left ledge]

Start buffing shuriken storm too

Bp only isn’t enough anymore

[vale pine]

i don't mind storm hitting like a noodle

i rather have its energy cost lowered again

[hazy breach]

Oh no, bro is addicted to aoe spells

[slate marlin]

Aoe numbers are higher, so aoe spells are better duh

[north schooner]

remove backstab in favour of shuriken toss in every talent for more ninjaness

[astral axle]

play fury mountain thane you get to press aoe spells all the time

[proven plover]

Bp was a mistake

[graceful osprey]

Make it so that Bp can proc to deal 1000% more damage to primary target

[glass ice]

hello

what are the most common macros for sub

[hazy breach]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[glass ice]

ty

[left ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/shake-freak-out-crazy-wild-ahh-gif-15649052

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/venom-twerk-marvel-rivals-venom-venom-twerking-marvel-rivals-venom-kao-gif-8612916396515986082

[vestal escarp]

Black Nuke

[vestal escarp]

Bro really has been typing in a while...

[alpine wraith]

getting it READY

[lusty epoch]

i see all people using flag -> rupture -> CDs -> backstab -> sectec

if we pool shadow tec and coup before flag, shouldn't it be better with flag -> rupture -> CDs -> backstab -> coup -> sectec

So that sectec benefit from more flawless form stacks. And since we get 3 finishers in a row with all the shadow tec stacks pooled, the second sectec will be up before SB runs out anyways

[hazy breach]

A. The second sectech gets ready quite perfectly with your cdr with a coup, if you dont have a coup youll have to delay sectech by one finisher
B. If you use coup before the first sectech your flawless stacks from the coup will fall of before the second sectech, which is the one that does more damage with more flag stacks+cb

And getting your sectechs of as soon as possible is really important to be able to get as much of the unseen blades and flawless stacks from disorienting strikes during cds too

Also if you go sectech > coup your second clone that hits after 1.3 seconds will benefit from the flawless stacks anyway

[lusty epoch]

Oh yeah makes sense thanks!

[glacial wind]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[solemn lance]

do we geneally always pop sec tech on first finisher during dance then evisc/cou

nvm, just saw this post, ignore my question

[lusty epoch]

If flag is up then yes.

If it's dance without flag then i think you should use coup before sectec

And if coup is not rdy it would be sectec into evis

Might be wrong but i think i read that in a guide sometime

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter outside of flag, either is fine

[clever delta]

is there something interesting for dwarf racial in new raid? im kinda bored of this orc shit

[chrome palm]

female elf > orc (smelly)

[swift tinsel]

ptr imploding for anyone else?

oh snap update

still bugged

[alpine wraith]

aaay well time to sleep

tomorrow more testing

[steel zinc]

guys ion said no more tuning its jover

[clever delta]

surely

[swift tinsel]

I’d settle for a tier set that does what it says

[chrome palm]

Huh

[steel zinc]

its a meme

no more tuning

last week they did it 3 times this week gotta chill

[short radish]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[errant ferry]

I’m sure there is an obvious answer but what is the reason not to macro symbols / dance together? Mind you I have a single bind for symbols, but my dance has symbols macrod into it. Sometimes I feel like I would use symbol without dance, but never dance without symbol. Am I crazy?

[hazy breach]

During your shadow blades you dont want to use your second dance at the same time as symbols

Because you want sectech to be supercharged, and when your first dance runs out you havent gotten enough cdr to be able to use sectech in your next two finishers

(and you would waste some symbols uptime since you'd have 3.5-4 seconds left of it, and pandemic on symbols is only 3 seconds)

And ye you could also just do a finisher outside of dance to delay it and be able to macro it, but then youre sitting in flag+blades+trinket without dance, which is not good

[errant ferry]

I see

[wispy jasper]

Is it too early for the tier impact sims for each spec?

[grizzled acorn]

What's the cast order dance flag and blades? And how much time should pass between each press?

[swift tinsel]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[swift tinsel]

^ picture with timestamps

[grizzled acorn]

Thank you

[tribal blade]

hey guys can i macro blades+flag+dance+symbols together

[short radish]

yeah i did it on razageth and it was fine

[tribal blade]

i knew iot

everyone's been lying to me

[short radish]

yeah

im here to release the truth

be free

[long sun]

on ptr with first dance i find i sometimes during cds i farm back my 2nd sectec inside my first dance, but there's like 1s left on dance

is it worth holding the sectec for the 2nd dance or just ripping it on cd

i think i read somewhere if u sectec later than like 1.3 secs on ur dance ur clones dont get the damage amp stuff from dance macabre, etc.

[warm marlin]

rip it and make sure you do the second dance insta so the clones don't hit outside dance

you can highroll into having the entire spell hit during the first dance but its also fine to have the clones hit in 2nd one

[long sun]

alright W ty

[warm marlin]

u do the lose the damage from danse but get your unseen blade hits out faster, get your flawless form stacks up, etc.

[long sun]

ya i can see this sometimes happening

[long sun]

right makes sense

[warm marlin]

it should be more common on ptr, ive done it a couple times on live

[long sun]

i think i assumed to hold on live since it happens much less often

but on ptr CDR is thru the roof

[warm marlin]

nah even live send the sectec

[long sun]

W rizz

[plush roost]

If youre really gaming you can send symbols at like 12 seconds sec tec cdr and get it in the first dance window pretty consistently on live

at least, in my experience

not sure if its mathematically better to lose 2 seconds on sod to get a juiced sec tec

[warm marlin]

getting the second clone in seems a bit difficult

[plush roost]

but i think its probabyl worth it

[warm marlin]

im not entirely sure there isn't a bit of grace period though

or my was arent entirely precise

[plush roost]

also requires shaman but what are we playing sub without shaman tho

[chrome palm]

i usually eat like ~1s pandemic on sod for earlier sec tech but idk if its good

well not usually but commonly

[warm marlin]

ive watched some back where my dance ends like 0.1s-0.2s before the second clone and it still does same or more damage as the first

[chrome palm]

ive had clones in 2nd dance do 10mil before

[plush roost]

yeah i wonder if its like server tick related

[warm marlin]

it could be slight weakaura lag

i know my cursor gcd thing is a bit laggy

[plush roost]

maybe, i use devlins WA and it is pretty on time

[warm marlin]

u can see here it definitely looks like the second clone was in the second dance but log suggests it hit with like 0.1s to spare

the first clone hits with my dance timer saying 0.1s

@leaden prairie liar wa?

[fallow nimbus]

When you use sectec as first finisher the clones from 2nd one in 2nd dance will never be outside dance unless you stop doing stuff mid dance

[rain stratus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[leaden prairie]

What

[alpine wraith]

what

[cloud rover]

what

[tribal blade]

????

tank??

rogue????

hello???

[keen dome]

yes please, tank rogue

[cloud rover]

Ok Mister SoD

let it go

its over

[steel zinc]

tbh I wish rogue had a Tank spec. Would make gearing way easier

[void ocean]

fck tanking

[keen dome]

tanking is fun

I get to pull everything and be the problem

[carmine portal]

Tanking is fun as long as you play a fun tank (brewmaster)

[keen dome]

I'm enjoying Prot Pal a lot more than I thought.

[runic trail]

You can pull everything and be the problem as a DPS

Just look at hunters and volley in legion

[carmine portal]

I put my Tricks of the Trade on the healer 🙂

[carmine portal]

I played a lot of prot pally in WOD, never again.

[alpine wraith]

was more of a sidewinders problem

was really silly

[vale pine]

tbh probably does not matter

[alpine wraith]

sub has some funny things happening with tricks and dance

also sec tech does not give threat either

for most of its dmg

[runic trail]

Hunters were menaces in legion regardless. Also I might have been thinking of barrage maybe. I forget what sidewinders is

[carmine portal]

Sometimes my tricks just straight up doesn't apply to my tank, in combat, out of combat, dismounted.

[carmine portal]

i wish it mattered i wanna grief my healer

more than I already do*

[void ocean]

arcane mages with random orbs

[carmine portal]

@clever delta having a rare cappucino in honour of you today

[void ocean]

or fdks with FWF procs

[carmine portal]

luckily i've not done anything high on my fdk but i've pulled
innumerable packs

[steel zinc]

@vale pine today sims? 😄

[vale pine]

probably ye

[runic trail]

Blizz waiting for you to drop sims so they can drop their tuning 2 minutes later

[alpine wraith]

there may be more trinket tuning tbh

but idk

[north schooner]

lily buff surely

[vale pine]

haha i hope not

[cloud rover]

Best they can do is 15% buff for BP

[bright sundial]

no 30% so I use it ST

[lilac stag]

We should be so lucky

[north schooner]

more like buff BP by 21% and unintentionally revert rotten's bugfix

[bright sundial]

I like it then SB doesnt buff bp for some reason

[north schooner]

ironically introducing that bug would make the BP-Evis balance less cringe

[steel zinc]

I wish our tier wasnt bugged

playing with a bugged tierset a whole tier wasnt fun

[austere zodiac]

rogue = perma cuckchair

[carmine portal]

Okay so I haven't played mountains this season, what exactly is bugged about flurry and our tierset, is there a TL:DR?

[steel zinc]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[cloud rover]

real

[alpine wraith]

dont worry if we can have a whole tier with set bugged

we can have 2

this coup bug one is kinda silly one too

[fleet wharf]

whats the bug?

[carmine portal]

well im going to go fuck myself haha

[void ocean]

good luck

[carmine portal]

atleast brewmaster is looking fun and good YESSIR

[alpine wraith]

tier set instad of working on the second coup for 150%

it works on the first

does not help coup is also bugged with shadowed finishers so

oh and finality

[short radish]

paladins are just plate rogues

[fleet wharf]

I thought that bug got fixed according to eleem?

[alpine wraith]

possibly but i may have missed it

well the shadowed one is more important

finality is not that big but still annoying

as the third hit is the most damaging and it never works with it

[keen dome]

hah

[short radish]

are they not

generate holy power

spend holy power

generate combo point

spend combo point

prot pally is basically outlaw

with its CDR

and with its extenstion of wings

[carmine portal]

any1 got that backstab/shadowstrike macro for Dance Macaroni

[fleet wharf]

!dance

hm there's a macro for it somewhere

[north schooner]

!bs

[carmine portal]

dw got it

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[carmine portal]

❤️ ty

[cloud rover]

Well thats almost every class

like building and spending

just the resource is different

[glacial wind]

What is this macro for? I’m new to sub rogue so wondering :) is it to backstab for macabre

[short radish]

yes and no

demon hunters arent like that

[carmine portal]

Exactly that yeah

[short radish]

boomkin

[cloud rover]

Almost

[fleet wharf]

You want to use your premeditation charge to build danse stacks when you dance

[glacial wind]

Thank you

[short radish]

warriors also

[cloud rover]

Ofcourse there are exceptions

[short radish]

i mean shaman also has "combo points" i guess

[glacial wind]

As in u will be stealthed but want to cast backstab not shadow strike for the stacks?

[short radish]

but holy power feels most combopointish

[carmine portal]

You'll want to use ONE backstab for the extra 6% but then it's back to Shadowstrikes

[fleet wharf]

Only the first builder should be a backstab. doing it properly gives like a 0.5% damage increase over not doing it. you may decide if that's worth the hassle or not

[cloud rover]

CHI, Soul Shards, Combopoints (feral)

Runes

[carmine portal]

Not necessary but any dmg gain will help in high level content.

[short radish]

yeah feral has combo points

warlock destro/affi are also similar

[cloud rover]

Essence

[fleet wharf]

shadow priests are rogues too TIL

[short radish]

argueably monk but it really doesnt play the same

even though it feels like it

[cloud rover]

My Point is

[carmine portal]

You can't spam the same builder as WW tho

[glacial wind]

Thank you! I have it on 2 buttons so I can build the stacks but the macro is maybe easier

[cloud rover]

almsot every class is kind of Build resource A and spend Resource A with Spender B

or for AOE Spender C

[short radish]

almost every class except for half of them

[fleet wharf]

if you got used to it as a 2 button, it might be better to keep it that way and find a new button. at least that was the easier way for me to undo muscle memory

[carmine portal]

Totally depends on how you as a player use your keybinds. I try and use as few macros possible but i'm going to give this one a go in some 10's today and se e how I feel

[glacial wind]

Yeah I have my main backstab shadowstrike button then a separate button that remains as backstab in stealth for stacks

I use full key binds and no macros cuz I come from pvp so used to pressing infinite buttons :)

[fleet wharf]

Just remember that it's only the premeditation charge you want to spend on the backstab, and the later you press backstab, the less worthwhile it is.

[carmine portal]

Literally watching MOP pvp atm and the volume of keybinds hurts my head haha

that's why I liked BG's more, could never get good at arena

[glacial wind]

Ah yeah I do retail arenas

[carmine portal]

only time I really did arenas was in legion, double spriest hpal dotting every1 to death

MOP i played a fuck load of feral bcus I got addicted to watching soda

Now I'm a PVE andy

[keen dome]

Yeah, I was thinking about it and pretty much

Just less cool

However, it doesn't have energy, so it's not quite there

Mana is basically whatever

[austere zodiac]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[errant ferry]

There is never really a time id use CB without sectec right? Like I can have two keybinds - one that is sectec without CB and one that is a macro of sectec with CB? I don’t need a solo keybind fit sectec in that case do I?

[smoky tide]

Dude I was looking for this at the time too, I even commented on a video of @tepid trellis

i believe he uses it that way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkstAjgjcHI&t=12s

[alpine wraith]

you do use sec tech without cb on cds

it is more dps to use it on the second sec tech

so you use 2 keybinds anyway

[smoky tide]

I was using 2 binds for the second secret tech, CB + Secret Tech, can I just switch this to the macro

[errant ferry]

Well the second sectec is pressing two buttons if they are not macros together. I know it’s minimal but like id rather press one button. So im just making sure there is no problem with it.

[alpine wraith]

yea i use standalone sec tech and sectech+cb

other people prefer to have cb standalone

[steel zinc]

every good sub rogue does that

you can use sectech cb macro for example also when sectech isnt up but boss dies in like 5 sec

then just send the cd on w/e

[smoky tide]

macro for second secret tech?

[fallow nimbus]

Sectec+cb

[errant ferry]

Okay I thought so, just was slightly confused by the guide saying not to macro them. What it really means is you need a stand alone sectec and a sectec+cb macro. Two individual binds.

[steel zinc]

think of it like 2 abilites

[errant ferry]

Yeah cool I like it

[steel zinc]

sub is more like playing omega fast in cds and just chill outside cds

you are litterly doing less then a tank outside of cds in st

[errant ferry]

Sub = High intensity interval DPS haha

[steel zinc]

its not even close

[carmine portal]

haha

[vale pine]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[smoky tide]

I was stressing out because I was using the first secret tech, and when the second one arrived I needed to click CB and Secret Tech, and now I'm just going to switch to the macro on the second one

[steel zinc]

subs damage looks like the graph a pump and dumb crypto scam 😄

[steel zinc]

bro if you click it then thats like hardcore mode of sub 😄

[distant bison]

sometimes theres trash with low health. u do pull 15-20mobs but 5-6 of them are low hp mobs. i send cd stech as first stech cuz half of the pull dies before u setup ur second stech

[tribal blade]

yes a lot of people will send cb+sectec in 1st dance if most of the mobs will be dead before your 2nd dance

[fallow nimbus]

Just crit the 2nd too

[tribal blade]

actually looking forward to sub running tea in keys

1 less thing to think about

double the energy pool

hot

[alpine wraith]

as you get more crit cb does lose power kinda in m+ yea

[wheat elk]

do we got a plater expert here? got a question D:

[fallow nimbus]

Cb just needs to be like the rotten but for finishers

My biggest fear is that blizz decides that haste should be better for sub and we get some shit like outlaw with the gcd

[steel zinc]

with bis gear maybe

rn you have like ~20% crit and the belt sometimes gives you up to 35%

[tribal blade]

yeah not sure tbh when it starts taking over

but it's a combo of the new tier not buffing sectec

and then mast from tea starts becoming more beneficial over CB

[lilac stag]

are you still telling yourself lies. You’re still playing assa, except maybe dawnbreaker.

[tribal blade]

haha we'll see 😉

[lilac stag]

are you pushing?

[vestal escarp]

Dawncracker

[lilac stag]

or did you come to your senses there

[vestal escarp]

🍘

[tribal blade]

honestly not sure, would like to not

[steel zinc]

i am gonna test then later on ptr

tea another keybind rip me

😄

[lilac stag]

Then you can play sub.

[tribal blade]

hha nah you literally just macro to dance

[lilac stag]

Dance macro

it’s one less keybind

You remove cb Sectech

[distant bison]

5 mobs all have findweakness on them u guys evis or bp?

[lilac stag]

BP

[distant bison]

anyone has a weakaura for that? like how many mobs have findweaknesss

[lilac stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[sick jackal]

how good are we looking at 11.2 as sub so far?

[lilac stag]

next?

[median nacelle]

looks good and fun

[steel zinc]

but gotta min max tea usage for big pulls and cds

[median nacelle]

for keys atleast

[steel zinc]

gotta stack it then

[sick jackal]

i kinda meant that in meta for keys

[lilac stag]

worst of the 3 for keys

[median nacelle]

meta who, just send it anyways

[sick jackal]

i wanna push title this season thinking if i go assa or sub

[median nacelle]

assa

[hazy breach]

Thats not what the people playing on ptr are saying

[sick jackal]

this does put a smile on my face

[lilac stag]

S2 remembers.

I’ll be happy if it’s not the case. Just don’t see it.

[leaden prairie]

didnt sub get nerfed from the initials numbers on ptr in s2

that hasnt happened yet

[hazy breach]

Well the s2 tierset had literally 100% uptime on ptr ye

[leaden prairie]

right

[hazy breach]

At more stacks and with more power than it ended up having on live

[leaden prairie]

sooo

[lilac stag]

we still don’t do anything outside of CDs. Will the tier be enough extra CDR?

[leaden prairie]

idk is that even true

[hazy breach]

Outside of dance ye,

[lilac stag]

I’ll worry about it after tuning actually hits

[leaden prairie]

i was watching casual do normal damage outside of cds

it wasnt like

abmysall low

[hazy breach]

Moreso for ST

[leaden prairie]

oh well

[hazy breach]

But aoe outside of dance is kinda stinky still

[lilac stag]

it just feels better comparatively because of tea

so I’m assuming that’s the hype

[hazy breach]

Casual wasnt playing tea

[lilac stag]

the s2 build? I haven’t watched anything this past week

[alpine wraith]

the thing about s2 is they didnt think we could just stall the tier set

[leaden prairie]

i would be surprised is sub isnt the m+ spec in current standings

or assa

[lilac stag]

enjoying other spec discords melting down

[alpine wraith]

and have like a 110% dmg amp in dance

[leaden prairie]

if you play a comp that want prio

[alpine wraith]

so they just deleted the tier set

[leaden prairie]

but you kinda need shaman for sub so

alwyas that issue right

[hazy breach]

You dont really

[leaden prairie]

well its 8%

kinda int

[hazy breach]

Its not 8%

[alpine wraith]

it is more for super st

[leaden prairie]

ok nvm then

[hazy breach]

Its 4.5% on ST and like 3% on aoe

[alpine wraith]

in slice it is kinda sameish with shout

[leaden prairie]

is fuu thing fucked then

its not waht it syas on the sheet

[hazy breach]

Well its playing fucked talents

[leaden prairie]

ok

[lilac stag]

aoe isn’t as important. Just feels worse to play without one in low targets

[spiral sierra]

how little haste is too little :D?

[alpine wraith]

0% haste is fine

but i dont know if it is possible this tier

[lilac stag]

-1

[spiral sierra]

perfect im almost at 2%

[alpine wraith]

havent looked at tier set stats

[spiral sierra]

yeah head has the only haste on my gear

xD

[hazy breach]

His sheet is assuming 0 buffs and then showing how much each buff adds individually.
If you have BL you'll get most of the dance cdr anyway for the sim so skyfury is less impactful

And new tier gives more cdr through more coups

[alpine wraith]

dont worry skyfury is big for deathstalker HUNT THEM DOWN

brrrrrrrrr

[median nacelle]

i always inv skyf... ehm... shaman to the grp

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker also hates crit

[median nacelle]

too addicted to having the buff

[alpine wraith]

what DN does to a mf

too much nut

[median nacelle]

if ur a undergeared shaman idc, ur coming along

[hazy breach]

But ye obviously youll do more damage with a shaman than without, but youll likely do even more with a warrior instead

[median nacelle]

warrior too, love em

maybe a dh

[leaden prairie]

okok

i tought shaman was way bigger

maybe the sims should start with lust as a baseline tbf

[keen dome]

damn, I have to make another friend to do more damage now?

[alpine wraith]

that could be or at least drums

but warrior is funny as a buff just snap it

i guess mage is the same for casters

[median nacelle]

ya

[leaden prairie]

no one plays withjout lust anywya

[hazy breach]

DH not important at all really

Monk and druid worth more usually

[median nacelle]

fair

[leaden prairie]

i was checking, dk gain more from having its bis comp than any rogue spec anyway

[alpine wraith]

yea i also like druid too

that vers big value

[leaden prairie]

(warrior, dh, shaman, druid)

[median nacelle]

i like guardian druids anyway

[alpine wraith]

dont worry i trust as always we will have some good rogue players

even when we do like 10% less dmg

and have less surv

and no group buff

[hazy breach]

Surely warrior will be the meta tank

[alpine wraith]

and smell of poison

[tribal blade]

this is the main issue with phys comps atm, there's only 1 spot for non buff specs

[alpine wraith]

it is not a spot really

because you can fit someone with a buff

[tribal blade]

so we're fighting with all the other specs for that spot

[north schooner]

prot warrior seems like a 4th dps

[hazy breach]

I mean ye if youre playing the pure phys comp, but you can play like prot warrior+enhance+dk+resto druid or something

And still have it be really solid

[tribal blade]

yeah, but people are generally fine with not having 1 buff 😉

[leaden prairie]

im surprised this isnt more talked about

[alpine wraith]

yea that is the cool thing about wow

[leaden prairie]

like 5% for dk is kinda huge

no one seems to care tho

[alpine wraith]

not everything needs to be min maxed

just skill diff their asses

like the people that play RMP even after 18 years

[tribal blade]

this current season has been really heavy on buff stacking

[alpine wraith]

through thick and thin

[tribal blade]

more so than usual

[alpine wraith]

well at least they deleted aug

so that helped a lot

[tulip gorge]

I wouldn't mind prot warrior meta, but is it able to survive magic damage and bleeds?

[alpine wraith]

and sp

so no PI shenanigans

they got nerfed for magic dmg even more

so idk

lost the magic block

[hazy breach]

Surely dks and MM doesnt go live like this

[alpine wraith]

PTSD from surv and destro on SL

SURELY

Su

RE

LY

[crystal bone]

lotta ppl named Surely in here

[keen dome]

Do you think the big balance push will be on next tuesday, friday, or the monday before the patch.

[hazy breach]

Idk, could be today, who knows

[lilac stag]

BrM stonks 📈

[hazy breach]

The blizzard roulette wheel knows no rules

[keen dome]

oh it's friday, not saturday today. It could be today

[tulip gorge]

except mage must end up on top

[latent finch]

Would it be good or bad if the class buffs would not work in m+ at all?

[spiral sierra]

they got a dart board and while blind folded throw darts.

[lilac stag]

there's still a fair bit of tier not working. we're not alone with broken shit this go lol

[spiral sierra]

thats how they choose buffs

[keen dome]

ye

Also the ptr was having issues today

[tulip gorge]

was there a ptr build this week?

I think not, right?

[steel zinc]

if you have to ask your doing content where you can just play w/e

[alpine wraith]

it is very likely blizz people have vacations this next week

to gear up for patch

[tulip gorge]

or they're busy with mop classic

[patent lichen]

Not how that works lol

[lilac stag]

but how do I fish for meta to be top .1%?!?!

[alpine wraith]

they still have to kinda tune trinkets and some specs but who knows

maybe they do the raw slam like sometimes on hc weeks

[hazy breach]

They already nerfed stone idol

[graceful crown]

this season im gonna play meta to know where i can reach, im a little tired of playing rogue since bfa with keys and shet

[alpine wraith]

still have to do something with some trinkets that are omega ass

but maybe they just go hands up

not my issue

[steel zinc]

play what is fun. You can litterly this season and prob next season get title with any spec if you play a 5 stack

[alpine wraith]

not first time or last time

[keen dome]

Probably gonna tune in week 0, too

[lilac stag]

the trinket dev walked out the door. good luck have fun

[alpine wraith]

first week will be interesting

understandable

likely got a pay increase of 2x or 3x

by going to another company

[patent lichen]

If there's a while dev for trinkets I hope they did lol

[graceful crown]

Without a good group is impossible, i had like 3 trys of +18 after 4 months with my outlaw

in hours and hours of waiting

[lilac stag]

it was "item" developer

among other things

[steel zinc]

if you pug in this game its like insane imo

also voice is op

[patent lichen]

If they're the ones behind roulette wheel, well deserved lol

[alpine wraith]

yea it is a linkedin simulator

to do high keuys

[plush roost]

Im not sure if you know this but if you played boomkin, unh, mage this season you would still be stuck in a key bracket if 18s is your wall and youre pugging

[alpine wraith]

know people get referred

[lilac stag]

someone in here played assa and still got cucked by friends for 19-20s

[plush roost]

At least on NA this season there are plenty of outlaws, brews, etc

I mean i pugged a theatre 20 as sub last night hahah

[lilac stag]

Top end M+ is just a toxic shit show

[hazy breach]

You can get 4k without voice so clearly its not required

[graceful crown]

i tried my arcane mage, in 1 week i had 3.2k rio without any effort

it was instant

xD

well i had my 3.5k rio rogue already that too

[plush roost]

I could legit pick any class at this point in the season and get 3.2k ngl. Thats like 14s right?

[graceful crown]

im talking in may

[plush roost]

Turbo boost made key scaling very wonky

[graceful crown]

starting june

but yeah now is easier

[plush roost]

Yeah thats after turboboost no?

[graceful crown]

i guess

[tribal blade]

i think you aren't gonna run into any serious difficulty until ~17s

[graceful crown]

but what im sure about is that if you play with pugs, if you re rogue and u dont use your key, ure much more trapped than a meta class

[steel zinc]

yeah true

[plush roost]

Like idk, maybe im biased but i dont think rerolling meta will be as plateu breaking as you may think

True tho, rogue does play q simulator a bit more than other classes

[tribal blade]

i saw you did it with swift and flossie

[graceful crown]

its simply the utility of classes

idk

[warm marlin]

The wa timer for dance is ending like 0.3-0.4s before it actually ends in logs

[graceful crown]

maybe this season its different

[plush roost]

In the NA m+ pug world anyway, everyone i talk to say they dont invite rogues except a certain few because "all rogue players are bad"

[warm marlin]

Just meming u it’s not anything to do with ur pack

[alpine wraith]

want to see some first time 13s and see what happens with random people?

[tribal blade]

damn seriously?

[alpine wraith]

i havent even done all 12s because i cba and just spammed stormrook for the last weeks i needed gear

then with turbo boost just did my key

i think i miss 1

maybe i do it this week or next just to have them all

[graceful crown]

i really love outlaw, been playing that spec since 2018, but i want to see where i can reach, maybe i get stomp and need to swap to rogue again xD

gonna try fire mage i think

seems fun

[plush roost]

Yeah theres like 8 rogues in na 17+ range ik people will invite and then its like, "ehh i dont really want a rogue"

[steel zinc]

You didnt do the 3k av?

[lilac stag]

no one plays it and most that are elite in keys swapped to something better

[tribal blade]

haha! hope to christ i'm not one of the bad ones

(i probably am)

[graceful crown]

sometimes at +17-18s i tried to go in, got whispers like, if u swap to assa im gonna get you

and i was like, wtf?

you serious?

[alpine wraith]

yea i dont care that much about achievs

[tribal blade]

trueeee

[steel zinc]

Yeah but since you mainly play competitive pve I think thats an easy av to get

[alpine wraith]

maybe i do it next week

[steel zinc]

just do it now have some fun

[lilac stag]

Unless we end up back in bonkers broken dps rogue is whatever.

[alpine wraith]

maybe we do some 3 rogue keys to have fun

been a while since i did one of those

[leaden prairie]

what

its a bfuf tracker

[steel zinc]

in raid imo we are ok just need aoe buff for sub. Nimble