idk sub aoe seems omega pepega
#subtlety
random hare
idk why the bp meme is even there and they keep chasing it
its so fucking stupid
its crazy
only thing sub is good at is doing good prio dmg
which legit means nothing in m_ rn
mplus
leaden prairie
idk sub aoe seems omega pepega
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2517471221?t=10h36m34s idk i didnt watch much, i just know that appart from first packs where he comes without trinkets since he plays prism, he was doing hunter damage when they did stacked packs with full cds like these type of things
i only watched a few moments so i didnt see if that was the same in every key tho
but ye
it goes high
random hare
hes responding to you with shit data just to reply to me 
the only pack that dies exactly the same time as sub's dmg profile i wonder why its good aaaaaaaaaa
still -3m in overall
steel zinc
even if all bugs are fixed it wont be evening close
imo nimble should do 100% instead of 65%
might help actually
fallow glade
it should do 150% 
leaden prairie
bf does 45
north schooner
65% of 1 ability that does damage though
north schooner
it only cleaves autos bs sstrike and evis
tepid trellis
if only nimble wasent bugged with blades + fazed + lethality + the crit dmg from trickster
hazy breach
wait nimble does 65
In practice its more like 50-55%
paper iron
dont get me wrong, many classes are bugged to the hell, but rogues are at another level
leaden prairie
it only cleaves autos bs sstrike and evis
only thing its missing really is sectech no?
and blades right
but sectech is already aoe
hazy breach
Shadowed finishers does less, no crit increases, no fazed
paper iron
why is fw still a thing
hazy breach
Fazed doesnt increase nimble flurry, they only fixed it for outlaw
leaden prairie
ye well
paper iron
that s cause zac yaps
leaden prairie
consider that unfixed eleem
hazy breach
And any shadow damage cleaved by nimble is reduced by armor, so it does 30% less than it should
leaden prairie
new ks has trash uptime on fazed
its basically irerelevant
i get cancer everytime i swap target
and fazed isnt there
hazy breach
And lethality/surprising strikes that makes crits do 35% more damage does not get cleaved
hazy breach
new ks has trash uptime on fazed
Ye fair enough
leaden prairie
okok
hazy breach
Good thing its still bugged for sub then where it matters 
tepid trellis
Good thing its still bugged for sub then where it matters <:garf_sit:13348894294...
still funny that tier is almost over
tepid trellis
and our tierset never got fixed to properly work
leaden prairie
guess my coup does nothing now
hazy breach
Ye tierset not working properly on sectech is silly
north schooner
only thing its missing really is sectech no?
yeah I don't think they can add more (it does cleave UB), it's just that sub's damage profile doesn't work as well with it as outlaw does. Plus BF isn't really 45% because outlaw has GM & NF which equalises them at 8 targets. BP being better at 3 FW targets during blades is just disgusting
north schooner
not for long unless they revert BF's nerf
brittle plinth
Wave emoji too much lol
north schooner
114,583% 
leaden prairie
Mb
north schooner
I actually hate the change because previously the numbers were way cleaner, now you get some random-ass percentages 
vestal escarp
no sorry, rog not allowed to be good
other actual real classes played by real human beans will get madge
north schooner
they had to prenerf outlaw because it was clearly too oppressing on ptr, if only the thought of that with the specs gapping everyone else by 20%
leaden prairie
they had to prenerf outlaw because it was clearly too oppressing on ptr, if only...
Honestly wild to me they did that but ok whatever
I will keep getting gapped by hunters and dks and mage that all got nerfwd by 10% every week for 3 weeks in a row
vestal escarp
🏹🧨
north schooner
I will keep getting gapped by hunters and dks and mage that all got nerfwd by 10...
leaden prairie
I'm scared of raid tuning ngl
That boss where adds take 100% increased damage
Outlaw destroys the padding so much
Since it's like too often for CDs and shit
It's another stix situation
But worse
chrome palm
fazed should be a buff
they could just make all of the fazed things be flawless form
no parry in ff, cdg in ff for more ff etc
but rip parry raid buff
leaden prairie
No one would care about the raid buff tbf
I think everyone would be happy about this while thing redesigned
Simplified
One less debuff or buff
Idk why fazed exist
leaden prairie
Ye
chrome palm
two semipassive debuffs that do slightly different things and end up just punishing you
chrome palm
No one would care about the raid buff tbf
the feral in my guild would object here 
chrome palm
my gm did not believe me when i told him that shit stacked
people just default into 1 of every class for their raid buff
glacial wind
Hello! I’m new to sub rogue. When do we use shuriken toss as opposed to shuriken storm?
hazy breach
Well toss is what you would use to pull things from ranged
glacial wind
I couldn’t see it ever in rotation
hazy breach
Its literally useless besides that
glacial wind
Right so in m+ never
hazy breach
Correct
quasi mantle
i sometimes use it on the motherlode final boss during the "invuln" air phase where they can't be damage and you're just dodging stuff, can be some free combo points
even that is so barely worth doing it some may say a waste of brain power
chrome palm
i sometimes use it on the motherlode final boss during the "invuln" air phase wh...
If adds are dead, just stay on the boss building shadow techniques
quasi mantle
oh yeah i suppose he's not always on the other side of the room from a pillar
naive token
what hero tree is looking up next season for sub?
fleet wharf
better pray it stays trickster
fleet wharf
I think it has wonkier/weaker aoe, and having to deal with the mark is no fun
like when it comes to targetswitching and whatnot
naive token
true for single I mean
tribal blade
DS is miserable for sub even in ST
not having all the cdr for sectec makes it so bad
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
harsh lotus
Hi all, I’ve read it’s not optimal to macro cds together but what are we talking here, 0.1% dmg overall?
sullen hare
Probably more than that
You lose out on symbols casts which is gonna work out to more than that
!cds
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
sullen hare
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.Thanks mate
alpine wraith
finally free
runic trail
the nightmare is over
Now for resi 21s!
tribal blade
finally free
smeagol is free
tribal blade
Now for resi 21s!
lol 19-20 was already a crazy step up
runic trail
lol 19-20 was already a crazy step up
I believe in you!
steel zinc
Your pugging? I respect the hustle
tribal blade
Your pugging? I respect the hustle
i know 3 of the people in that key
1 was a pug
their group is safe for title so i've been doing stuff with the tank and healer whenever they're around
steel zinc
i know 3 of the people in that key
So semi pugging with a twist of rng
tribal blade
So semi pugging with a twist of rng
haha yeah still technically mostly pugging
steel zinc
their group is safe for title so i've been doing stuff with the tank and healer ...
Oh nice so they have resi 20?
tribal blade
nah they don't
steel zinc
19 though or?
tribal blade
they're around the 3820-30 ranged
steel zinc
Title is 19 and some 20
tribal blade
yeah 3800 is roughly 2 20s and rest 19s
the tank is a prot pal
which is still my favorite tank to run with
steel zinc
In eu cutoff should be 3820
tribal blade
makes sense yeah
steel zinc
Ok 3810 but yeah
But as rogue title would be a real accomplishment
Ngl as dk is faceroll just gotta put in the time
tribal blade
this season is not bad for rogues tbh
if you're sin or outlaw
the rise of phys comps really helps
steel zinc
Yeah true I remember when title last df season was only zerocool
Sin good in phys? You don't want to be outlaw?
tribal blade
both are good
steel zinc
I assume u play in higher keys hybrid or?
tribal blade
yeah i'm playing mostly hybrid
steel zinc
Since st in bleed is very meh
tribal blade
in rookery i play bleed with IW till 2nd boss, then hearth and swap to sub
steel zinc
Tbh bleed build is more fun but won't time a key I guess 😅
final wasp
steel zinc
in rookery i play bleed with IW till 2nd boss, then hearth and swap to sub
Yeah sub on endboss is goated
final wasp
Blue name playing sin
tribal blade
yeah bleed feels good until you look at the prio and st
tribal blade
Yeah sub on endboss is goated
really is
steel zinc
Blue name playing sin
He is switching mid key to sub that's goated
final wasp
Its ok, Ill put time into my rogue once sub is good again
tribal blade
i just couldn't take another season of trying to make sub work
although sub is not bad right now
tribal blade
yeah it's sustain in aoe is garbage
steel zinc
So baseline sub is kinda good no, and hero talents make it worse?
Baseline sub aoe is even worse without trickster it's over
tribal blade
the biggest issue with sub is what mapko said, you burst kinda ok in aoe in cds
and then fall off hard after they're over
steel zinc
Trickster = sub blade flurry
tribal blade
but honestly trickster doesn't help hard capping half of your dmg
and DS is just beyond cursed
steel zinc
I mean it's just sad that in cds a bm hunter and even an assa rogue just beats you
steel zinc
And sub used to be funnel spec but now other specs are way better
tribal blade
but not hard capped
steel zinc
Yeah true
tribal blade
so i did a 19 FG earlier today
on big momma the other 2 dps did 500-600 mil boss dam
i did 900 mil
crazy funnel
and prio
steel zinc
Yeah hybrid is with kb right? And no execute so mid and right or?
tribal blade
yeah KB with no execute
steel zinc
What will you play week one in keys?
tribal blade
uh honestly maybe bleed with iron wire
alpine wraith
big sub stonks week 1
steel zinc
Yeah same I have shaman dh druid in group
tribal blade
and bleed is just crazy good on lower key levels
steel zinc
Thought about sub
steel zinc
Because I got all 3 sub buffs in group
tribal blade
haha all 3 of those buffs good for sin too 😉
keen dome
Massive, hell yes
steel zinc
haha all 3 of those buffs good for sin too 😉
True
tribal blade
but playing this hybrid build is quite stressful
you only get 6 seconds of IC
and no subterfuge for if you get pulled out of stealth before applying mark
steel zinc
but playing this hybrid build is quite stressful
Yeah I think so too. You don't play double vanish or you do?
tribal blade
Yeah I think so too. You don't play double vanish or you do?
no x2 vanish
so no safety net
steel zinc
F******
keen dome
I guess you'll be able to just blast bleed on launch of S3 'cos it'll be chill again
steel zinc
Yeah or sub
tribal blade
yeah both will be really good at the start of the season
steel zinc
But sub imo can't be played without shaman buff. It feels so bad
tribal blade
i refuse to play sub w/o skyfury now
steel zinc
I guess sin will be early on busted because of all the buffs
tribal blade
in keys
keen dome
Just pretend Shaman's don't exist
tribal blade
OL will probably be really good too
steel zinc
OL will probably be really good too
Gotta practice that again. Only played a bit ol fatebound s1. Cba trickster with KS
steel zinc
I imagine all 3 are gonna be a good time
Early on yes. Later we will fall off a cliff
tribal blade
i'm not gonna play outlaw, can't take high ping and spell queueing
steel zinc
i'm not gonna play outlaw, can't take high ping and spell queueing
Not ptr
runic trail
I made a sword the other day so I can actually practice it
I have a weapon for it I just CBA getting an outlaw gear set
keen dome
Ye getting the haste cap is kinda annoying, I guess I'll do a neck recraft and see what else I'd need
runic trail
Ye getting the haste cap is kinda annoying, I guess I'll do a neck recraft and s...
Also I'd probably need to dump mastery a bunch
keen dome
Someday they'll get rid of the region split and we'll be able to do comical rogue only pugs
runic trail
Someday they'll get rid of the region split and we'll be able to do comical rogu...
If only.
tribal blade
it's hilarious seeing the title cutoffs for korea and taiwan
they're crazy high
because of how small their population is
keen dome
There's some stuff, yeah. Also reset being on different days. I think, at a minimum, it'd be cool if they made everything account wide.
Ain't no way I'm ever starting fresh haha
runic trail
Or just allow you to make characters on a US realm from an EU account
That'd be nice
keen dome
Yeah, it being one sub would be good
alpine wraith
some countries have laws they need a local publisher
leaden prairie
they could prolly merge the 2 like with oceania or whatever the fuck region
alpine wraith
china is one of them
steel zinc
Or just allow you to make characters on a US realm from an EU account
The game is so cooked. And will be more spaghetti code with housing. Housing will also 100% be not working for atleast 2-3 weeks. So them putting servers from different regions will be cooked too.
alpine wraith
the others no idea
steel zinc
they could prolly merge the 2 like with oceania or whatever the fuck region
True that 100%
runic trail
The game is so cooked. And will be more spaghetti code with housing. Housing wil...
Yeah but I want to believe
keen dome
US client has the random name generator on characters, EU doesn't. There's some weird changes like that.
steel zinc
US client has the random name generator on characters, EU doesn't. There's some ...
Didn't know that
keen dome
I imagine they could do it, but why bother.
leaden prairie
im also fine with them not doing it
cause immma be so tilted if i end uip having to play on na servers
keen dome
Haha, yeah that's true
leaden prairie
cause of keys with na people
steel zinc
cause of keys with na people
Saw you playing ptr outlaw. You gotta be tilting hard
That ms
I cba playing outlaw on ptr
alpine wraith
the new KS is also tilting
from worst to worse
they only need to change it two more times
steel zinc
the new KS is also tilting
It's better then the old one
keen dome
Rename it to Power Word: Guns
alpine wraith
not really the old one is from like bfa or legion
the old old one was super funny but you were immortal
and immune to cc
actually not immortal
steel zinc
not really the old one is from like bfa or legion
I mean the animation
harsh lotus
Speaking on aoe, is black powder really only used on 7+ targets?
leaden prairie
Saw you playing ptr outlaw. You gotta be tilting hard
ye a bit annoying
alpine wraith
yea the animation is kinda new
old one was not even swinging
XD
it just did some tippy taps on the air
steel zinc
old one was not even swinging
Yeah like a dancing 💃
alpine wraith
yea was so krangled
steel zinc
Speaking on aoe, is black powder really only used on 7+ targets?
Fw up 5 targets
runic trail
How hard is outlaw to pick up anyhow? I wouldn't mind gaining some familiarity with all the specs
leaden prairie
Does outlaw play the spymaster trinket?
kinda, technically the crit one from hoa is better but thtas just cause its overbudgeted
its not an insaen trinket for outlaw tho
prism i mean
steel zinc
kinda, technically the crit one from hoa is better but thtas just cause its over...
I mean yeah the crit one is w/e
alpine wraith
prism seems quite decent but not omegaop
not like spymaster
that one was silly
and yea we dont talk about the 28k crit trink
that one is getting obliterated
steel zinc
How hard is outlaw to pick up anyhow? I wouldn't mind gaining some familiarity w...
Easy to learn hard to master. Good thing is aoe and st are the same rotation
alpine wraith
uh well i have bad news
depending on timers it can be quite bad
but also i wish they make max stacks better
steel zinc
It won't be since you don't always need max stacks
You delay cds quite a lot here like you do on gally vexie in the new raid
alpine wraith
well longer fights it is good at least
steel zinc
well longer fights it is good at least
Yeah talking progress here
alpine wraith
i want to try forge and prism
steel zinc
Spymaster became worse in farm too
alpine wraith
wonder how it plays around things
runic trail
Easy to learn hard to master. Good thing is aoe and st are the same rotation
Fair enough. May try learning it a bit during season 2 downtime, I'm a one trick pony player so I wouldn't mind trying to diversify
leaden prairie
in m+ that trinket gonna be very good for sub tho
steel zinc
Fair enough. May try learning it a bit during season 2 downtime, I'm a one trick...
If you can play sub assa is in st braindead easy
runic trail
If you can play sub assa is in st braindead easy
I can vaguely play sub, I was an assa otp
harsh lotus
Fw up 5 targets
Sorry new to sub, fw?
alpine wraith
find weakness
steel zinc
Sorry new to sub, fw?
All good find weakness
Read the talent explains everything. Interacts with improved storm and the rotten
runic trail
Like, I can play it at a basic level, it still ain't at a level where I'm happy with it yet. I need to get some logs on it so I can bother people in here about them
tight sparrow
Did they fix when storm consume 2x rotten stacks
steel zinc
Like, I can play it at a basic level, it still ain't at a level where I'm happy ...
Do gally either mythic or hc and then think about planing where to use cds
Sub is 50% about when to do damage. Since shifting cds is a thing sub can do
steel zinc
Did they fix when storm consume 2x rotten stacks
Ptr yes
runic trail
Do gally either mythic or hc and then think about planing where to use cds
I think I'm just missing some things rotationally possibly. I've ran it on vexie and my numbers ain't great
steel zinc
I hope we play sub for progress
You will
runic trail
Like it doesn't matter a whole bunch for me, I'm in a very late tier CE guild so, i can play anything and it'd be fine. But I'd like to be more flexible
steel zinc
You have some bosses with forced downtime
steel zinc
Like it doesn't matter a whole bunch for me, I'm in a very late tier CE guild so...
Thats a good mentality to improve.
runic trail
Also we are giga-bad at add swapping as a team and I'm just sat there on sin like, 'WELL OKAY THEN, I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM'
keen dome
Vexie can be weird if it dies at an awkward time for our cd's
runic trail
We're doing our first Gally reclear tonight but I'm probably going to stick to sin on it, just for familiarity purposes
I'm still traumatised by the 89 pull mugzee reclear
keen dome
Also we are giga-bad at add swapping as a team and I'm just sat there on sin lik...
That's nice for Sub 'cos you can delay for them and pad like a madman
runic trail
Vexie can be weird if it dies at an awkward time for our cd's
Yeah we are bad at getting the second damage amp as well which doesn't help.
keen dome
ye
runic trail
5 minute kill, only 1 amp 
steel zinc
Also we are giga-bad at add swapping as a team and I'm just sat there on sin lik...
As sin in p1 you just spam rupture the adds no matter what cp and use the bonespike proccs
That's what I did in prog
You have more add dmg then
runic trail
As sin in p1 you just spam rupture the adds no matter what cp and use the bonesp...
Yeah, I'm rupturing them, I also need to fix my cooldown timings but I know when to send as sin now.
steel zinc
As sub you solo the first add set
runic trail
Before I was just hitting cooldowns on cooldown, doing the hold til 3 minutes thing now
runic trail
I'm still not confident enough on sub to use it on Gally
Our reclears are messy as hell
steel zinc
Our reclears are messy as hell
Perfect time to learn sth new no meme
runic trail
(See aforementioned 89 pull mugzee reclear)
steel zinc
You basically reprog most stuff so play sth different
runic trail
Perfect time to learn sth new no meme
Yeah I just don't wanna grief the team any more than we're griefing ourselves
I'm liking sub, I just have confidence issues so I don't wanna take it to hard content until I feel I'm ready
hollow spear
You must really have some good friends in your guild to not have hopped already 😅
runic trail
You must really have some good friends in your guild to not have hopped already ...
I just like the vibe, my RL said I'd be capable of going to a higher WR guild but I'm comfy here and I like the people.
lilac stag
We're doing our first Gally reclear tonight but I'm probably going to stick to s...
Wait, I thought you were reclearing gally each week.
runic trail
Wait, I thought you were reclearing gally each week.
No lol, we spent 89 pulls reclearing Mug'zee 
(It hurts, please save me)
runic trail
Just having a good time with people you like
Yeah, vibes > competence
lilac stag
you can easily move up guilds and find competence + vibes
keen dome
Well, you are getting CE and are comfy, just ride it out until you feel like moving on.
runic trail
Well, you are getting CE and are comfy, just ride it out until you feel like mov...
I feel like CE this tier doesn't count as much
steel zinc
I feel like CE this tier doesn't count as much
It does
keen dome
Every CE does, imo
vestal escarp
Some are more free than others
steel zinc
Idk what people are about gally p1 is actually a good fight and mugzee is not easy
keen dome
it's still something less than 1% of the population of WoW achieves.
steel zinc
Like don't compare rwf prog to actual progression.
runic trail
Yeah but the number of guilds getting it this tier is way higher than nerubar
runic trail
Idk what people are about gally p1 is actually a good fight and mugzee is not ea...
P1 Gally is fun, p2 feels underbaked
steel zinc
Yeah but the number of guilds getting it this tier is way higher than nerubar
Nerubar was one of the if not the most overtuned bs ever
Like 4 bosses that are faceroll and then let's get 309 guilds stuck on boss 5
runic trail
Nerubar was one of the if not the most overtuned bs ever
I'm still haunted by my first mythic raid experience being Kyveza and then court prog
keen dome
Dropped in the deep end, haha
steel zinc
I was doing in theory rwf prog on onvinac
keen dome
Were you in one of those guilds that got 4/8M and got to Ovi'nax the same time as the RWF guilds?
steel zinc
I'm still haunted by my first mythic raid experience being Kyveza and then court...
Court is a bs fight. Like it's actually not hard just bs
steel zinc
Were you in one of those guilds that got 4/8M and got to Ovi'nax the same time a...
Yeah raided first tier in a world 120 guild
But was 4 days
runic trail
Court is a bs fight. Like it's actually not hard just bs
Court we were just waiting for blue team to fucking behave
keen dome
Wild
runic trail
Blue team were maniacs
We joked that the kill pull would be the one where blue team never got yoinked in first. It was correct.
steel zinc
If rwf guilds start one tanking and you have to have x comp to actually be able to kill the boss the tier was over after boss 4
runic trail
If rwf guilds start one tanking and you have to have x comp to actually be able ...
Comp bosses are the worst. I almost had to learn boomkin for stix
keen dome
runic trail
RED TEAM IS THE TOP DOG
Red team behaved themselves, blue team scared me
runic trail
I wonder if that was common in most guilds
plucky parrot
!wa
wicked joltBOT
harsh lotus
@steel zinc me again sorry, reading guides and can only see black powder used in 7+ mobs but you that’s wrong?
final wasp
Comp bosses are the worst. I almost had to learn boomkin for stix
My guild would be 100 rankings higher if they let me play feral on stix ON GOD FR FR
north schooner
<@312625131686068234> me again sorry, reading guides and can only see black powd...
It's not in the guide but the idea is that you BP on either 7+, 5+ FW targets, or 3+ FW targets during blades. Those are optimisations to the 7+ rule. You still use CdG though if you have it
void ocean
My guild would be 100 rankings higher if they let me play feral on stix ON GOD F...
are Supreme Leaders even allowed to say smth like this 😄
final wasp
Supreme leaders everywhere will generally agree that noone is deserving of the punishment of playing boomkin.
void ocean
u werent even rogue? 
void ocean
but captain sinks with the ship... 😄
final wasp
leaden prairie
koffing isnt my mod ..
final wasp
If I was your mod you wouldnt be halfway as easy to tilt 
Just look at ronkles, he has grown a way thicker skin after constantly bullying
@tepid raven ur doing so good now boo luv u mwah
leaden prairie
If I was your mod you wouldnt be halfway as easy to tilt <:KEKW:1125459355463061...
wtf bro
im litteraly reformed
tilt proof
alpine wraith
ronkles is blasting warrior
i saw him
whispyr last bastion of the shadows playing rogue
void ocean
the one true king
final wasp
tilt proof
leaden prairie
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/268366812612263937/1392836964658450453/...
prolly better than the shit 5s channel we got
no capi
tepid raven
Just look at ronkles, he has grown a way thicker skin after constantly bullying
Definitely for sure
Absolutely
final wasp
Have you had lunch yet, ronkman
leaden prairie
ronkperson
do you play rogeu
or are you a fake mod aswell
Not answering, I knew he was a fake mod
tepid raven
Have you had lunch yet, ronkman
That’s at noon
tepid raven
Not answering, I knew he was a fake mod
I am a very fake mod
leaden prairie
runic trail
My guild would be 100 rankings higher if they let me play feral on stix ON GOD F...
I was benched for most of stix, it was great
leaden prairie
holy shmoke
tepid raven
Rogue that is
final wasp
If I had the skills of ronkman, Id be a complete gamer
tepid raven
I went back to outlaw otp roots
alpine wraith
domination shards
final wasp
But Im just a cat
tepid raven
Then I just gave up and rerolled
alpine wraith
tbh warr is way cooler
clever delta
are we still playing TFD on ptr ?
clever delta
yeah m+
steel zinc
<@312625131686068234> me again sorry, reading guides and can only see black powd...
what Ninjarobo said
alpine wraith
well they keep buffing bp so yea it ahs kind gone like that
someone made a FW counter too i dont remember who tho
spiral sierra
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/268366812612263937/1392836964658450453/...
this is real right?
runic trail
When are they making secret technique an empowered spell
This is the important question
spiral sierra
idk, but would be neat.
runic trail
Charge it for longer, get more shadow clones.
tribal blade
someone made a FW counter too i dont remember who tho
i think it was dave
final wasp
this is real right?
Not even a single word
spiral sierra
just swapped to sub for funsies, and idk why i haven't played it before, i like it over Sin honeslty xD
spiral sierra
Not even a single word
yeah. i figured.
tribal blade
spiral sierra
!wa
wicked joltBOT
void ocean
adding it to the pile
steel zinc
just swapped to sub for funsies, and idk why i haven't played it before, i like ...
sin st is the bm hunter of melee
only fury is more braindead
spiral sierra
sin st is the bm hunter of melee
i find the rotation of sin painfull compared to Sub. sub you gotta think, but its got more flow.
carmine portal
only fury is more braindead
Bro forgot ret exists
slate marlin
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/268366812612263937/1392836964658450453/...
No empowered spell gap
void ocean
i find the rotation of sin painfull compared to Sub. sub you gotta think, but it...
bruh assa rotation is great if u have like arthritis or smth...
alpine wraith
it is good you can play with pedals
spiral sierra
bruh assa rotation is great if u have like arthritis or smth...
thats true
i do get cramps sometimes, no arthritis, so far.
final wasp
bruh assa rotation is great if u have like arthritis or smth...
So assa is good for all the OG outlaw players that have destroyed their hands
remote shuttle
rogue broken confirmed
Ptr!?;!
clever delta
yeah the new key
steel zinc
Bro forgot ret exists
true yes
spiral sierra
i was playing outlaw before sin and man wtf was i doing xD
remote shuttle
GG mr Sap
void ocean
So assa is good for all the OG outlaw players that have destroyed their hands
or addressing Adderall shortage
runic trail
rogue broken confirmed
We had an agreement to sandbag on ptr wtf
steel zinc
rogue broken confirmed
insane both specs are way better. On ptr you find people that never done a +12 or w/e trying higher keys 😄
great testing
clever delta
i leave that to @ashen ibex
void ocean
Sap, no
clever delta
insane both specs are way better. On ptr you find people that never done a +12 ...
yeah i mean, im not doing keys with MDI competitors 😄
just random ppl whcih wanna try out new stuff too
steel zinc
yeah i mean, im not doing keys with MDI competitors 😄
their is a difference between that and the av mythic raider
spiral sierra
i just read your name Sap, i love it 😄 coffee is life
clever delta
true
carmine portal
What about my name
void ocean
r u the "dont talk to me until i had my venti" kind of person 😄
clever delta
coffe is my fuel 😄
spiral sierra
What about my name
are you a brain less ape? then yeah checks out 😄
aka i like it.
spiral sierra
coffe is my fuel 😄
is that a cake windows key?
clever delta
ye
carmine portal
coffe is my fuel 😄
My gf loves ur keyboard
clever delta
my not so much, cos she know how much it cost
carmine portal
are you a brain less ape? then yeah checks out 😄
Yeah im a fkn moron o7
spiral sierra
Yeah im a fkn moron o7
represent o7
carmine portal
my not so much, cos she know how much it cost
How much?
runic trail
£100, we're guessing it using price is right rules
ashen ibex
I sandbag fulll
void ocean
coffe is my fuel 😄
what in the gods name is that
carmine portal
£100, we're guessing it using price is right rules
Nah we're talking £300, 400
100for a keyboard isnt crazy
Esp with custom keycaps
runic trail
I am unaware of the keyboard cost landscape, I've had mine for 10 years now
I need a replacement
clever delta
just the keycaps are 150€
runic trail
just the keycaps are 150€
carmine portal
Told ya haha
brittle plinth
Keyboard market is charging extra for something ppl think matters and falling into the hype.
carmine portal
I need a replacement
Corsair k65 is absolutely the best keyboard ive ever owned. Small, light, pretty cheap
runic trail
Corsair k65 is absolutely the best keyboard ive ever owned. Small, light, pretty...
I've got a daskeyboard or whatever its called, only 1 on the numpad and the right arrow key stopped working
void ocean
i have my Redragon mecha-baby
spiral sierra
i have my Redragon mecha-baby
i love my steelseries Aerox 9 MMO mouse
brittle plinth
i love my steelseries Aerox 9 MMO mouse
Great mouse
clever delta
custom mechanical keayboard hobby is fun one
runic trail
I want an MMO mouse but the only left handed one I could easily find was from Razer
void ocean
but it has a few layers of dandruff so i aint taking pic of it
brittle plinth
The Logitech 610 with the pinky button was nice but sadly wired
runic trail
I just want buttons where my thumb is
carmine portal
custom mechanical keayboard hobby is fun one
I understand it, my "collection" thing for my PC is microphones
Ive been thru 10 i the last couple years
brittle plinth
I just want buttons where my thumb is <:uglyassdog:1370509827280867400>
It's great
You can then change your UI to match your binds/key layout and be a full boomer like me
runic trail
It's great
Yeah but no leftie version
runic trail
u want mouse in ur left hand?
Yeah
alpine wraith
some people are like that
brittle plinth
Yeah but no leftie version
Should just be happy you weren't born into one of the many culture s where they beat the left out of you lol
void ocean
I mean, Im a leftie too but never considered such travesty
brittle plinth
That's a good point
carmine portal
@keen dome do you like psychology btw my gf is asking about ur name
runic trail
Right hand wasd is a cursed way to play but I'm used to it now
void ocean
hows ur right hand handling keyboard then, it has to be wide apart I guess for WASD
brittle plinth
Would you get a left handed keyboard that moved numpad and other shit to left?
runic trail
Would you get a left handed keyboard that moved numpad and other shit to left?
Probably not. I thought about running games using something else for wasd but then I'd have to do rebinds in every game and I couldn't be arsed
void ocean
turn keyboard up side down and use XASD
brittle plinth
Actually nevermind. I vaguely remember having to occasionally move a mouse from left side to right side of keyboard in computer labs growing up.
This is probably uncommon now
keen dome
<@95119747300995072> do you like psychology btw my gf is asking about ur name
ye, it's where I get it from
I was studying Psychology when I began playing WoW and my name at the time was taken so I was like "Hey I like the word Gestalt, it's a cool term, pragnaz is cool, and also the german word is cool"
carmine portal
"Are you present in the here and now?" Ur being asked
void ocean
where else would he be present
keen dome
Gestalt Psychology itself is a bit of wank though, I just like the term and the application to how we see the world / art stuff.
runic trail
I just know the term from stellaris
void ocean
I almost went on to study Psychology
keen dome
Yeah, Gestalt Conciouness.
I have a double degree in Psycholgy and Criminology and I have done nothing with it
void ocean
decided last minute Id probably end up broke
keen dome
Smart
runic trail
I have a double degree in Psycholgy and Criminology and I have done *nothing* wi...
But you got a cool name out of it
void ocean
u can pass lying detector i guess
final wasp
Pinch yourself every time you answer a question 
void ocean
you can offer mental breakdown courses
i tho we have that for free as sub mains
runic trail
Just have a naturally nervous disposition where you panic regardless of if you're lying or telling the truth
carmine portal
Bro knows how to deal with the mental toll of playing sub
alpine wraith
yea just need to show sub patch notes over the years
carmine portal
My gf is starting her PHD for psychology soon
final wasp
Get ready to never winning an argument ever again
keen dome
brains are overrated anyway
carmine portal
Fr
final wasp
Real
keen dome
Italy produced some brilliant thinkers in multiple fields, so.
carmine portal
Smarter and cooks better, depression
final wasp
🤌
keen dome
I would've liked to go on to do a PhD but I am not smart enough so I settled to do more undergrad.
void ocean
i mean cant u just break spaghetti in half and throw her off
final wasp
Dawg
runic trail
Just use ketchup as pasta sauce
keen dome
ketchup on pasta is legit
carmine portal
I would've liked to go on to do a PhD but I am not smart enough so I settled to ...
Her hope is to become a counselling psychologist in the long run
runic trail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6d2QmmJkpQ
If things look dire, send her this and run away
keen dome
carmine portal
Haha
keen dome
And yet, that isn't the worst thing he's done
final wasp
HUH
hazy breach
Bro just posting ragebait
runic trail
And yet, that isn't the worst thing he's done
He started off normal, and then the water sausage happened
keen dome
Ordinary Sausage is a hero and a visionary
runic trail
Bro just posting ragebait
Mr Sausage is a culinary innovator
He pushes the boundaries that mere mortals don't dare tread
keen dome
Sometimes you just need a person to go "What if.." and not stop to think about it for a second.
runic trail
Do most of his creations fail spectacularly? Yes. Does he occasionally stumble into some strangely intriguing ideas? Also yes
carmine portal
There's a dude on our realm who just genuinely eats like that btw
Boiled pork sausages, ketchup on plain rice, microwaved chicken
keen dome
You mentioned RP, are you on AD?
carmine portal
Yessir
keen dome
Hell yeah
runic trail
Hell yeah, fun realm
carmine portal
Best realm in the game it's not even close
runic trail
I miss rp servers but I don't wanna pay transfer fees
keen dome
Best realm in the game it's not even close
100%
carmine portal
Been on AD since 2014, moved from DFB and wish i moved sooner
runic trail
I may move my rogue over there but also I'm on a dead realm which boosts my ego when I look at server ranks
carmine portal
Kinda based
runic trail
Sub 3k io, second rogue on the realm
carmine portal
Haha
keen dome
AD is good for it though. Some very very good rogues, but also just chill
I'm 18th on AD with 3009 lol
(As Sub)
carmine portal
My GF is a new player and adores how social it is, joined her first guild, got 2k rio on her first season ever
GOATED realm
runic trail
Wait wtf I dropped to 5th
keen dome
Hell yeah. AD is extremely social and it's nice. Very active trade posting, lotta people, great for collectors.
runic trail
Damn you other people
carmine portal
Im dogwater RIO atm, played hpriest this season
runic trail
I've been at 2987 for 2 months now, I lack the motivation to get 3k
I can do it I just... Am not a m+ enjoyer
void ocean
i got 3k on my fdk, rogue still on like ~2970, it will stay there
runic trail
That's just one? key
Yeah but I've not touched m+ in 2 months and life has been better for it
carmine portal
Atm i only do m+ so my GF can watch and learn fights
keen dome
fair
carmine portal
Too close to end season
void ocean
Atm i only do m+ so my GF can watch and learn fights
bro she dead-ass running an experiment on u and taking notes
carmine portal
TRUE
carmine portal
Playing sub?
clever delta
ye
i was slapping on bosses but the AOE of frost DK and mm hunter is something else
spiral sierra
fdk and mm hunter still broken AF?
tribal blade
i've only played with a few frost dks but their aoe always seems so small compared to udk
udks do bonkers overall
carmine portal
Oh yeah but udk is busted
clever delta
im not sure about that prism trinket tho @ashen ibex what do you think of that so far? i
tribal blade
fdk is really good for boss dammy though
OH that's ptr nvm
i'm talking about live
spiral sierra
yeah thats ptr
clever delta
im trying to learn that sub playstyle
carmine portal
Frost DK breath uptime the other week was so funny
clever delta
tbh i just press evis with prio target and BP withnout it
spiral sierra
im honestly ok with that number of DPS almost 7m is great
spiral sierra
im trying to learn that sub playstyle
what was your ilvl?
clever delta
it feel like pad pressing BP when there is big prio target
hazy breach
im not sure about that prism trinket tho <@229386660326932481> what do you think...
Idk its not like theres a ton of other options
spiral sierra
on ptr
clever delta
everyone is scaled to 710
spiral sierra
oh
hazy breach
The halls one is really good, but not on the vendor so
spiral sierra
whats max?
hazy breach
723
tribal blade
i think if you press BP no matter what when there's a lot of targets you might keep up with them
spiral sierra
scaling 😄
hazy breach
723 is maxed myth track
clever delta
Idk its not like theres a ton of other options
yeah but than you do first pull with BL with no trinket, than you wipe and do another withnout trinket
its kinda sad
carmine portal
Are you a meticulous machine and gear addict,
spiral sierra
i like this bottle called stok, idk if its local or not but, its cold brewed pre package stuff for quick drink.
idk how to brew 😦
carmine portal
Italian so we're a Moka pot household
spiral sierra
noice
tribal blade
italians take their coffee seriously
spiral sierra
very
clever delta
How do you make yours?
if i speak im in trouble, im that kind of person who drink cappucino all day
im not really into strong coffes
spiral sierra
to each there own, i can't handle them either since i got acid reflux
carmine portal
Only non-acceptable coffee is an americano
spiral sierra
true
clever delta
i rather have 3 weak coffe a day than like two strong ones
carmine portal
Fair enough!
spiral sierra
same, spread it out is a plus
clever delta
at home we are doing those capsule ones, we dont have proper coffe machine
for beans
carmine portal
I do coffee once a day personally, nothing to do with the caffeine but i try not to drink too much milk and the moka doesnt do amazinf espresso
carmine portal
at home we are doing those capsule ones, we dont have proper coffe machine
We would use a machine but we have no room in our kitchen for one
steel zinc
Idk its not like theres a ton of other options
spymaster and pacemaker look good
and work well together
clever delta
i see
i did not check it out where does it drop
i was looking at raid loot
and was kinda sad
no decent neck or ring as raid drop
maybe another season with crafted neck
carmine portal
Yeah lookin like it sadge
hazy breach
no decent neck or ring as raid drop
There are though
As long as they dont have haste theyre good
clever delta
there is neck from second to last boss
likely you will not get it till progg is over
with crist mastery
carmine portal
Wouldn't it just be better to craft a mastery vers neck?
hazy breach
Crit is good
carmine portal
Not looked at our BIS lists, what other crafts do we have/needd
hazy breach
That seems unwise, but who am i to judge
hazy breach
Belt is a fine craft
clever delta
there is not very good wrist either
tribal blade
oh we actually will be replacing that belt right
hazy breach
Not ideal, but the delve belt is getting replaced
clever delta
you have lot of craft options 😄
ashen ibex
im not sure about that prism trinket tho <@229386660326932481> what do you think...
A bit inconsistent in terms of it can proc last sec or combat but if you time your bursts propably around it seems good
clever delta
you are on your last year, so better make it count
carmine portal
Wowgrandma proves that we've still got plenty of years in us
tribal blade
guildie of mine literally posted this an hour ago
graceful crown
Yes it is
tribal blade
yeah tanks doing dps dmg is not gonna last
harsh lotus
It's not in the guide but the idea is that you BP on either 7+, 5+ FW targets, o...
Ty for the secret tech!
north schooner
No, that's another ability
harsh lotus
No, that's another ability <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
Well played
south kernel
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
and sub fades?
dry plank
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
alpine wraith
ok i finish contracts the week of 18 locking in for big wow situation
bright sundial
morning fellas quick question, if we use bp >=3 during blades and >=5 not in blades does that mean we dont use the tier set with 5+ targets or do we just send them?
alpine wraith
coup you send if you have fazed and it is very likely you have it on dance
because you will sec tech and strike before it most of the time
steady dune
!wa
wicked joltBOT
fleet wharf
coup you send if you have fazed and it is very likely you have it on dance
is that the only rule for coup right now? just send it when fazed is up?
alpine wraith
you can hold coup a bit if dance is coming close in st but on aoe you send in any dance you get
fleet wharf
Just for extra clarification, if you have coup and sec tech both up, you still sec tech before sending coup or is it better to send coup first if you have fazed up before sending sec tech?
vestal escarp
In flag always sectech first
fleet wharf
right should've clarified, I mean when you're not in flag window
cuz right now I just often hold coup until sec tech and dance are up
have a feeling it might not be optimal
alpine wraith
in the in between dances you can do either
it is kinda whatever because if you sec tech first you get extra cdr from coups
but if you coup first you get extra damage on sec tech
what i would like is getting to stack more than 4 escalatings
fleet wharf
right, but it's a bad idea to send coup without fazed because you lose one of the buffs, forget what it's called
alpine wraith
yea fazed is a must
fleet wharf
thanks for the clarification!
final thing, from the sounds of it, there's no need to really hold coups for dance windows right?
alpine wraith
only in st kinda because of the damage amps we have but for aoe you get more dances so it is less important
the diff was not super big either
thick siren
good start of the week to everyone, can't wait for some sub bug fixes today!!!! 🌞 🌻 ☀️
hazy breach
right, but it's a bad idea to send coup without fazed because you lose one of th...
Yes you lose 12 seconds of 15% more finisher damage if you send coup without fazed
Fazed is mostly annoying and doesnt make much sense as the hero talent already has flawless and escalating blades as buffs but it is what it is
We have bigger fish to fry (ie complain about)
spice matrix
should we aim for coup to be in dance or does it not matter
hazy breach
good start of the week to everyone, can't wait for some sub bug fixes today!!!! ...
I like your optimism my dude, keep it up 
hazy breach
should we aim for coup to be in dance or does it not matter
Largely doesnt matter in sim (ie st dummy) situations
Now obviously in practice sending coup right as a pack dies with a lot of running to the next pack in a key isnt great, so in that situation you can hold onto it
spiral sierra
!wa
wicked joltBOT
spice matrix
Now obviously in practice sending coup right as a pack dies with a lot of runnin...
strictly speaking in raid
hazy breach
Just when ready unless you need it for something (ie adds coming up in 5-10 etc)
hazy breach
If you hold for a bit you generally need to sectech first to make sure fazed is up
trail glen
!Wa
wicked joltBOT
spice matrix
If you hold for a bit you generally need to sectech first to make sure fazed is ...
I have a log review posted up for a couple days now if you'd like to skim through it whenever you have a chance
jolly sleet
ahoy ! will there be any rotation and burst phase changes going into 11.2 ?
I'm currently practicing the burst phase on dummies and its kinda addicting seing the numbers skyrocket for a few seconds
in M+ I have an issue of timing my burst because i find it very sensible to downtimes : typically on a boss like Gorechop I have the issue of having to leave the circle while bursting and then finding myself short of cdr for delivering my second secret technique (boosted by shadowblades and cold blood)
the numbers are much less impressive when shadowblades fall off before the second technique
I still have a question : flagellation buff falls very early in the shadowblades, so its actually never improving the second Secret technique, so why do we cold blood the second one and not the first one (that happens during flagellation) ?
north schooner
I still have a question : flagellation buff falls very early in the shadowblades...
it doesn't, there are 2 buffs for flagellation. One that lasts 12s and allows you to stack the mastery buff, and one that lasts 24 (12+12) and gives you the mastery bonus
north schooner
you need to track both because they chain each other, ids: 384631 (stacking) and 394758 (post-stack)
or tracking by name
jolly sleet
yeah i figured those were the ids ty 🙂
i'm used to making my own was so they fit my ui better, sometimes there are issues like that
north schooner
I get that, I'm the same
vale pine
ahoy ! will there be any rotation and burst phase changes going into 11.2 ?
rotation stays almost the same
jolly sleet
rotation stays almost the same
TYVM !
plush roost
My favorite part of sub rogue is when you send sec tech into the footman defends in priory because they always seem to come down right at that moment
I may have spent 4 hrs last night doing some alt/offspec keys last night
Why we chose priory
I do not know
lilac stag
self hatred
plush roost
My opener became strike rup x4, then flag, rupture, cds
desert bolt
anyone here running a darkbrew build atm?
plush roost
Because thats when the defends finished
plush roost
The defends on live? Thats real?
leaden prairie
Ye
plush roost
Hmmmmge good knowledge i actually had no idea
leaden prairie
It you attack one at full hp it will never cast
Once under 50% it's on a timer tho
Shit mob
haughty mural
chrome palm
Bp for danse
hollow spear
Wouldn't be surprised if that was a thing at 2+ fw targets
Not sure what our tc are cooking up rn
warm marlin
hit every button in danse to get huge stacks 📈 use the damage amp to press buttons that do no damage 📉
swift tinsel
hit every button in danse to get huge stacks 📈 use the damage amp to press butt...
peak sub design lets goooooo
warm marlin
hazy breach
Not sure what our tc are cooking up rn
There was some talks about it but like "BP at 4 targets with 3 fw for a danse stack" is a bit too much
Or like "at 8 targets with 1 fw for a danse stack"
swift tinsel
you know what does grant a stack?
hazy breach
Some stuff just gets so specific that it doesnt actually matter much
swift tinsel
ripe flame
!wa
wicked joltBOT
north schooner
use BP if it's a Tuesday, it is a leap year and the wind is blowing southwest
runic trail
use BP if it's a Tuesday, it is a leap year and the wind is blowing southwest
Do I need to take the humidity into account? If its too humid the powder might get clumpy
north schooner
yes but for that you need a WA which live tracks humidity in Lima, Peru.
runic trail
Does the timezone need to account for if its tuesday in peru as well?
north schooner
yes but blizzard use the wrong timezone so you have to add +2
clever delta
ptr update
upper narwhal
Nimble Flurry is fixed this time for sure 
north schooner
-5% evis +11% BP
swift tinsel
Eviscerate has been replaced with Single Target Black Powder
swift tinsel
I'm hoping its the 4pc fix
but that'll come this thursday or next
or not at all if its like s2 set
pure edge
Whats the main diference between assa and sub right now for Keys? Assa has better aoe? And sub st?
warm marlin
I'm hoping its the 4pc fix
im not super confident anything will change from here on out
swift tinsel
im not super confident anything will change from here on out
oh yeah same the hope is pure Hail Mary energy
chrome palm
Eh last season tier was broken until like a week before live (and then stayed broken the rest of the patch)
hazy breach
Whats the main diference between assa and sub right now for Keys? Assa has bette...
Right now assa does more big aoe yep, but the biggest difference is that assa does damage pretty much regardless of cds or not
Sub does not do a whole lot outside blades&flag, and does practically nothing outside of dance
swift tinsel
chrome palm
With tfd and new tier I wonder if it is the object to try to triple dance every blades with tfd
swift tinsel
plenty of room on the door but none for us
chrome palm
Also last time I was on ptr I had a hard time resetting tfd with vanish but maybe placebo
spiral sierra
Also last time I was on ptr I had a hard time resetting tfd with vanish but mayb...
tfd?
swift tinsel
the first dance
hollow plinth
tharked for death
spiral sierra
https://tenor.com/view/speech-bubble-cat-spoofity-gif-27496454
yeah im tired too 😦
chrome palm
yeah im tired too 😦
I woke up and I’ve never been more tired
swift tinsel
I've been dealing with HR all day and been ready to go back to bed since I got here
brazen steppe
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen dome
Sleep is a lie. It doesn't work.
At least that's what I'm tellling myself about why I'm tired all the time.
swift tinsel
Why would you deal with HR all day?
we just migrated to Workday and in the transfer they casually lost two weeks worth of wages
swift tinsel
University system admin has to take care of it so who knows how long that'll take
keen dome
🫂
swift tinsel
I kinda wanna just not work in the meantime and say I don't want to work if I'm not getting paid for it lol
keen dome
That'd be my attitude, haha
swift tinsel
the lab is always under the microscope though so I don't wanna give them any ammo
otherwise I'd be on the patio rn haha
hollow spear
Sleep is a lie. It doesn't work.
You need to learn how to power nap
keen dome
Never been able to nap.
hollow spear
Once you've mastered it you can nap between your flag windows
chrome palm
Once you've mastered it you can nap between your flag windows <:dracthyr_kek:100...
Boy do I have the spec for you 
hollow spear
Oh boy
Your mutilate hits both didn't crit? Tough luck.
See you in ten seconds, when you have enough energy for the next one.
west tide
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
west tide
oh my gosh sub and outlaw look strong
vale pine
i will soon™ add season 3 sims
swift tinsel
any interesting new APL additions?
or did everything pretty much settle in the same fashion
(minus the between coup builder thing)
sharp knot
anyone have a PTR build M+ for sub?
lilac stag
same as live. Run TFD
hazy breach
anyone have a PTR build M+ for sub?
Literally same as live 
west tide
bro why did i think season 2 was the new season i forgot what season we were on
hollow spear
(minus the between coup builder thing)
What was the latest on that? Don't remember reading anything special.
swift tinsel
What was the latest on that? Don't remember reading anything special.
You do it to not waste potential EB stacks
Some of it is mitigated by shadowcraft refunds, blades, vanish+premed etc so it’s not going to be as bad as people think
hollow spear
Ah the storm?