like so many LPL fans flew to vancouver for it!
#subtlety
slate marlin
lmfao
swift tinsel
if not reverted fully
I'm all for the extra dam tho lmao
and that's with sht refunds getting in the way of storming between most of them in blades
ptr is a bit sticky tho and the lag is notable
slate marlin
u going to test m+?
swift tinsel
still no idol on vendor
slate marlin
or can they come back with loser bracket
loser bracket vs al
or blg
idk if they played yet
alpine wraith
are they eliminated
it is 2 elimination bracket
leaden prairie
who tf is al
alpine wraith
so they go vs al
swift tinsel
anyones legend
alpine wraith
for a shot at finals
swift tinsel
chinese pro team
leaden prairie
idk them
so its a free win
dont even need to watch
i will be there for geng t1 final
swift tinsel
I need to finish watching last nights geng t1 series
bleak night
skip the last game
swift tinsel
ofc
bleak night
draft was hype though
warm marlin
a coup buff for second coup also raises the value of escalating blade though
swift tinsel
I s'pose, yeah
warm marlin
i dont think we're getting our escalating stack cap raised 
slate marlin
I'm assuming they got the Hard No to changing stacks
but...why? xd
hazy breach
Thus we do easy
slate marlin
seems stupid easy work
hazy breach
No hard
swift tinsel
ye
swift tinsel
seems stupid easy work
you'd think so
but with blizzard code, any tiny change can tank a patch
warm marlin
Changing number is easy
the tier has got to be insanely strong now right
swift tinsel
coup starting to look like envenom in logs
not really
but still notable
I need to try it with predisorient vanish opener
slate marlin
well as long as sub is good in m+ im happy
swift tinsel
nimble still bugged so our boss damage still good but aoe still not as good
warm marlin
how do u predis in raid
sectec before wipe and dont press builders
jaunty heath
ahh
hazy breach
So either on trash before boss or before you wipe
swift tinsel
just gotta hope you wipe when sectech is up
warm marlin
better get used to being fast on the cloak 
lilac stag
let’s go
keen dome
noooo
rich stump
assass 8% buff 0_0 and sub gets something at least
pliant topaz
so its a free win
AL is an insane team. It’s LPL seat 1, and my favorite team to watch rn. IMO they have the best mid and toplaner in MSI, and the rest are comparable to geng and t1 top / bot
warm marlin
<:gwb_uwu:1161311867411648552> let’s go
even with the finality bug coup is blasting
goremaw too bad to compete
bleak night
only best mid at msi because honq got betrayed by his top laners
pliant topaz
Nah shanks was better than hongq
Like bro hasn’t had a single bad game all tourney. He’s giga impactful every series
lilac stag
More blasting from killing spree!
runic trail
even with the finality bug coup is blasting
I can't stop looking at the batman burst period
lilac stag
even with the finality bug coup is blasting
TFD? Opener looks juicy
warm marlin
ya tfd predisorient the works
swift tinsel
tfd predisorient vanish feels so fucking beefy
warm marlin
mainly was testing if the finality thing was still happening since coup was hitting so hard it felt like it might not be
leaden prairie
AL is an insane team. It’s LPL seat 1, and my favorite team to watch rn. IMO the...
not reading all that
t1 win
nice try tho
almost got me worrying
but too many words
cant get me
pliant topaz
T1 loses to al watch
lilac stag
@leaden prairie outlaw back? 
?
leaden prairie
no lol
pliant topaz
Tmrw
leaden prairie
they ignored all feedbacks
bleak night
And ignored all assa feedback too
runic trail
Wrong. They buffed Assa
Aura buff in lieu of tweaking issues with the hero talents, classic 
bleak night
Numbers all rogue can expect
lilac stag
How is 10% too much for sub, but 8% is ok for assa? 
leaden prairie
Wrong. They buffed Assa
we asked for lower channel duration on ks, they buffed ks damage so you cant cancel it early anymore its not worth it
bleak night
How is 10% too much for sub, but 8% is ok for assa? <:garf_sit:13348894294493144...
Who said this
leaden prairie
they managed to make the gameplay worse
slate lantern
how is realz supposed to tune besides slapping number buffs when hes working on the foot focused 3rd DH specs
swift tinsel
Hero tree changes come next week trust
bleak night
Hero tree changes come next week trust
I wouldnt trust but you were right last time
So i trust
lilac stag
Who said this
Them removing the double buff
bleak night
Them removing the double buff
So no one got it
swift tinsel
EB changes come, then we get 2nd coup dmg % lowered to 125%
pliant topaz
they ignored all feedbacks
swift tinsel
lilac stag
they managed to make the gameplay worse
So the pirates are upset about a 1-2 second channel? Or am I missing something?
haughty mural
Wrong. They buffed Assa
They did ?
bleak night
It's much longer than 2 seconds
swift tinsel
give you time to pool energy for big burst windows!
hollow spear
It's not like there's no context to the assa buff
lilac stag
What’s the supercharged ks last?
swift tinsel
3-5 business days
slate lantern
What’s the supercharged ks last?
like 6-7s iirc?
haughty mural
Oh wait
slate lantern
can apply bengay in between each cast
haughty mural
They also buffed us
swift tinsel
yep coup is truckin'
lilac stag
can apply bengay in between each cast
That doesnt do shit unfortunately
haughty mural
I read the notes and my brain completely skipped rogue part
haughty mural
150% coup 
lilac stag
Voltaren is the one thing that gives some relief outside of narcotic level pain killers which I try to avoid
slate marlin
5 second channel as outlaw
leaden prairie
So the pirates are upset about a 1-2 second channel? Or am I missing something?
5s yes
shouldnt i be ?
i play outlaw to have a fast paced gameplay
and im suypposed to have a 5s channel every 20s
idk
lilac stag
I’m just trying to understand
slate marlin
that goes against outlaw gameplay i have to agree
lilac stag
5 sec seems bad
slate marlin
i would be mad too if sub buffs were deathstalker only
lilac stag
2 is fine imo
slate marlin
A buff is a buff, damage goes up, doenst mean it made gameplay better
lilac stag
legit trying to see what the concerns were/are
swift tinsel
if they make it so you can consume mark with bp or sectech I'd actually be happy to play ds
bleak night
A buff is a buff, damage goes up, doenst mean it made gameplay better
Wrong, the higher I am in details the better the gameplay is
warm marlin
dn sectec would be cursed no
swift tinsel
would still be less fun than trickster for me but the gap would shorten considerably
warm marlin
how u gonna force that to line up every time
north schooner
the goat!
slate marlin
Wrong, the higher I am in details the better the gameplay is
i prefer being #1 on details with perfect gameplay but you do you
swift tinsel
dn sectec would be cursed no
not dn sectech, just allow it and bp to consume marks while dn is up
rupture too ig
or add bp to dn
idc which
lilac stag
i wish it was 2 s
So basically they need to set spell channel independent of cps?
swift tinsel
former suggestion would still have weird bits bc you'd consume marks and just not cast evisc so you're sitting on DN for a while
make DN evisc cleave
fuck it
slate marlin
i wonder what would happen if rs doubled your current ruptures rsther than it being 2 ruptures at a time
lilac stag
Make DN splatter
leaden prairie
So basically they need to set spell channel independent of cps?
i mean they could do that, but they also could just lower the duration
i wish it was a set duration tho
would be great
because now it also gives cps per tick
swift tinsel
if a spattered/cleaved dn evisc does more damage than BP on 3 targets thats a win in my book
slate marlin
1.6 seconds, 1 gcd as spender, 1 gcd as builder
leaden prairie
so its even weirder to have a longer cast, if you are overcapping at the end of it
swift tinsel
maybe even five idc
lilac stag
classic rogue talent development.
near fog
Just wait until outlaw goes more and more melee gunslinger with slower gameplay in an attempt to raise rogue popularity. As the existing rogues feel worse and worse about the changes. Big sadge
mental dune
i dont get the purpose of making it a 5 second channel and tripling the cd
maybe i dont play enough outlaw but i cant imagine anyone wants that
lilac stag
@leaden prairie thanks for the info
bleak night
i prefer being #1 on details with perfect gameplay but you do you
And what color would you like your dragon to be little timmy
north schooner
all sub players want purple
slate marlin
bc it would be a ninja dragon
leaden plover
all sub players want purple
dw, we not getting it 🙂
bleak night
all sub players want purple
Spyro sub mascot confirmes
north schooner
sectec should spawn two spyros
lucid jackal
Sub feels crazy style with the buffs
I wonder how supercharger and coup tier set are gonna play out
warm marlin
oh you probably do want to supercharge 2nd coup now if possible huh 
bleak night
Oof
tight bloom
Cold blood with second coup of second dance incoming
Imagine the one at 3 minutes with prism
haughty mural
Sectech no longer the main character 
lucid jackal
oh you probably do want to supercharge 2nd coup now if possible huh <:hmmge:1128...
probs
sly shore
sectech still hits harder than coup
swift tinsel
My coups on ptr are hitting as hard
lucid jackal
I just mean sometimes ur sequences are awkward af
sly shore
lucid jackal
Like u cant do coup > sectec anymore
sly shore
lucid jackal
cuz u have to commit to coup coup
lucid jackal
Idk if u can coup sectec coup
sly shore
you can coup > sectech > build > coup
sly shore
that's 2s
warm marlin
sectech still hits harder than coup
i think the second coup might hit harder
lucid jackal
Feels awkward wasting an EB proc but
warm marlin
or it is close
like this is from just now, always supercharging sectec + cold blooding sectec
sly shore
yeah
I don't think anything will change rotationally
it's clunky
just continue you as you were and enjoy coup doing good dps
swift tinsel
my highest coup was ~500k below my highest sectech hit
ye I think trying to swap supercharge around might just lead to things getting fucked
swift tinsel
might have to play around with it a bit later
bleak night
ye I think trying to swap supercharge around might just lead to things getting f...
So it's thematic for sub
lilac stag
So it's thematic for sub
We’re so back!
bleak night
warm marlin
maybe a truly degenerate flag window could look like
dance coup symbols backstab sectec blades coup if you had some sht to fuel it
but that just looks disgusting
swift tinsel
I do like seeing coup damage being higher on the chart but maybe 15-16% instead of 26% lol
lilac stag
need to factor in monka buff
warm marlin
yea true as well
swift tinsel
true, been testing solo selfbuff
worthy axle
Does anyone have talents for sub Ptr?
sly shore
it's fine as it is
warm marlin
coup even closer to sectec value
sly shore
because
swift tinsel
monk buff plus chaos brand
swift tinsel
if we're middle to top third I'm absolutely fine with that, that's my dream spot
lilac stag
KPBDragoon arc started
swift tinsel
gang gang
swift tinsel
unless someone else swaps or they recruit which I doubt very much in both cases
sly shore
yuh
lilac stag
impossible to recruit rogues
swift tinsel
I don't think we're losing anyone from last tier
lilac stag
Pretty soon we can demand healer pay
swift tinsel
and we picked up two more people at the end of prog
sly shore
average coup is like 20% less than sectech so
you might be able to coup > sod+sectech > coup
at a maximum
swift tinsel
average coup is like 20% less than sectech so
is that the 2nd coup or all
lilac stag
@swift tinsel this may require some poolin! 🌊🏄🏄♂️
swift tinsel
coup > sod+sectech > coup seems doable just gotta adjust a lil bit of muscle memory
sly shore
you can enter dance with full CP anyway
so it won't be hard
cos you delay sod for a singular global
and you get energy refund
lilac stag
You know Dave needs to be in this.
swift tinsel
lmao I don't want to step on Mafic's good name
swift tinsel
its so awkward
haughty mural
swift tinsel
need to woodshed it
haughty mural
I think I need to reCOUPerate
swift tinsel
rip the goat
haughty mural
@lilac stag How’s it looking on the spear front ?
lilac stag
<@226395155098370049> How’s it looking on the spear front ?
They killed wildfire infusions visuals. Spec is dead to me right now. 
hollow spear
Did we enter the 14 sht pooling era?
haughty mural
warm marlin
Did we enter the 14 sht pooling era?
always have been
lilac stag
Did we enter the 14 sht pooling era?
We gonna fight outlaw for who can afk longer
haughty mural
Is it ur warrior arc now ?
vestal escarp
hello? pins???
lilac stag
Rogue prison arc
haughty mural
One of us 
lilac stag
We’re running prot warrior since we can’t keep a warrior or recruit a rogue.
bleak night
f
haughty mural
Well recruiting rogue is impossible
lilac stag
sub not in notes btw
Open both eyes
haughty mural
slate marlin
tierset got buffed for sub
lilac stag
Well recruiting rogue is impossible
Our DH, DK and myself have been the three long term melee core.
Everything else a revolving door
haughty mural
Know that feel
runic trail
Everything else a revolving door
That caught me off guard when I got dragged into mythic raiding, I didn't expect the turnover rate to be so high
hollow spear
My guild just recruited a second rogue 😮
runic trail
Out of like, the 24 people we had when I started on kyveza mythic, only 6 are still around.
lilac stag
As long as PI is good for dk or DH they’ll usually get it
runic trail
Full on revolving door
hollow spear
I'll ask for PI next patch
serene notch
That caught me off guard when I got dragged into mythic raiding, I didn't expect...
I imagine it’s content that quickly feels like a job you don’t get paid for and people gas out?
hollow spear
Need more sht stacks
lilac stag
Full on revolving door
Our overall team is stable. Melee just a rollercoaster.
runic trail
I imagine it’s content that quickly feels like a job you don’t get paid for and ...
Yeah but people are just hopping guilds so it's not gassing out.
lilac stag
Every WW we get sucks
runic trail
Our overall team is stable. Melee just a rollercoaster.
We've gone through like, 5 tanks now
swift tinsel
I think we have a diff combination of four guys since mid SL lol
lilac stag
our tank is healing on mugz
swift tinsel
Maybe five
haughty mural
Every WW we get sucks
Get mine 
Im also pretty certain I’m on another guild midway through or after s3
Something is brewing
lilac stag
get out before it happens
hollow spear
Brewmaster?
lilac stag
Should be easy to hop as rogue.
hollow spear
I've seen so many guilds recruiting rogues
Half of them didn't have a rogue in the entire S2 raid
serene notch
I wish mythic raiding had the flex raid, I get why not but it makes it so I will never get to do that content.
lilac stag
we’re built differnt, some may call it dense. Others stupid. We are rogue.
runic trail
I wish mythic raiding had the flex raid, I get why not but it makes it so I will...
They should just open up flex raid when HoF closes or something
lilac stag
I wish mythic raiding had the flex raid, I get why not but it makes it so I will...
Just join a mythic guild
bleak night
i call it stockholm syndrome
swift tinsel
depending on how this tier goes I might be hopping too
hollow spear
What the over under on blg vs al tonight?
swift tinsel
wanna push for more than just 3 or 4/8
runic trail
I just don't know how to play any other class so, I'm here.
lilac stag
swift tinsel
idk if I've seen another rogue in our raid team since amirdrassil
serene notch
Just join a mythic guild
I don’t want to leave my casual guild they are the reason I came back to this game and stuck around after coming back during covid.
hollow spear
I'll reevaluate end of this season if nothing major happens
swift tinsel
I'm gonna wait and see where we get walled and if its bc the fight is hard or bc this group just can't manage to do it
hollow spear
My better half will cut off my plums if I play more than two nights a week, so I'm kinda limited
keen dome
Get them into WoW
lilac stag
We had a feral try to swap to rogue when they were trying to see if they wanted me on warrior or hunter. By w2 the difference in our dps made him quit.
swift tinsel
shooting for 3k and 6/8 mythic this season hopefully
lilac stag
no more rogues after that.
swift tinsel
maybe try and get into a CE group
hollow spear
Yeah, should be easy
lilac stag
6/8 is pergatory
swift tinsel
try to improve ranking each season
lilac stag
Just look for ce from 4/8
swift tinsel
Just look for ce from 4/8
yeah that's probs what I'm gonna end up doing
hollow spear
If your logs aren't complete dogwater and you can spare two nights a week, you should find a CE opportunity
lilac stag
6/8 is literally fighting roster boss 24/7 and can never get out of it unless a miracle happens in recruiting.
runic trail
Don't apply for a raid team. Do what I did, join as a social, wait for the raid team to implode and get dragged kicking and screaming into mythic raiding 
serene notch
try to improve ranking each season
That’s been huge for me, I have failed more than I have ever even attempted from previous seasons, it’s been freeing to just focus on getting better.
hollow spear
I had to look for a new guild three times in s1 thanks to broodtwister
swift tinsel
got 2.5k for the first time this season so the next logical step is 3k, then for raid we normally stop if we get walled for a couple weeks as a 4 hour per week guild
lilac stag
We fired 2 WW because of brood
slate marlin
lol what happened
lilac stag
Bad play. Bad attitude eventually.
potent relic
yeah that's probs what I'm gonna end up doing
fwiw i'm 5/8m this season, posted on recruitment discord last week and got like 10+ replies within an hour and 5 CE guilds reaching out within the same day
runic trail
I'd say take my spot on reclears, I just wanna nap man
lilac stag
I'd say take my spot on reclears, I just wanna nap man
You mean reprogs 
runic trail
You mean reprogs <:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
Don't hurt me like this
I'm already in pain
I don't need you adding to it
lilac stag
Misery loves company
swift tinsel
fwiw i'm 5/8m this season, posted on recruitment discord last week and got like ...
damn that's actually badass, def gonna look into it
runic trail
'Oh, we got CE, I can chill for the rest of the season' Hahahano
lilac stag
legit a decent rogue should have no issues finding a guild for ce right now
runic trail
Tbf I'm tempted to step down from mythic raiding so I can return to being a casual andy.
potent relic
damn that's actually badass, def gonna look into it
yea just post there's nothing to lose, i ended up picking a CE guild that made sense for me . i can send you my logs if you want for reference
runic trail
even a shit rogue can find a guild for ce
don't call me out like this
potent relic
the CE guild i joined had no rogue this tier and last lol
lilac stag
even a shit rogue can find a guild for ce
True. That’s me.
swift tinsel
Lol my mythic logs this season were scuffed so badly
bc our pulls are insanely inconsistent
north schooner
even a shit rogue can find a guild for ce
maybe there is hope for me 
lilac stag
Just high roll 4head
swift tinsel
5th boss kill lookin like first pull
dry plank
my guild is trialing a rogue so if hes good i might swap
to what?
runic trail
Just go on the rogue -> survival hunter pipeline
haughty mural
slate marlin
is sv that much fun?
bleak night
it used to be
swift tinsel
I like it
swift tinsel
Mongoose window doesn’t feel as bad imo
lilac stag
I like sentinel better than PL
lilac stag
They did a nice job with the rework. There’s still some quarks, but overall it feels way more complete than sub or outlaw
swift tinsel
For sure, there’s a few moving parts but they don’t notably clash
merry agate
So bois...
Double Coup gonna play like hot garbage but we blasting? 🙏
dry plank
probably hunter if i can get away with it
idk i have a hunter bis geared almost, it became boring so fast
lilac stag
you’re just hamstrung trying to do range hunter job as melee.
midnight ledge
Just minimal tier set changes. Lame.
swift tinsel
Lmao coup blasting
dry plank
also I tried enh chaman, feels good, but Im afraid of rerolling
lilac stag
Just minimal tier set changes. Lame.
Not minimal.
merry agate
We’re stylin
Can live with that. You got me 👍 😂
lucid jackal
Just minimal tier set changes. Lame.
It is not minor 
swift tinsel
Go log a dummy and see how you like the changes lol
lucid jackal
nah ill just complain
midnight ledge
It’s a tier set changes. Was hoping for more class based changes.
dry plank
you summoned guy NOOOOO
steel zinc
It’s a tier set changes. Was hoping for more class based changes.
what did you expect maybe an aura buff?
you wont see any major changes
dry plank
bug fixes please xD
swift tinsel
Unlikely to see tree changes
lilac stag
what did you expect maybe an aura buff?
Red name. Assa aura buff. Checks out. ✅
midnight ledge
My copium was high for big fixes
dry plank
may be some love to hope for future cool updates
swift tinsel
That being said crystal ball says eb stacks next week
midnight ledge
Bug *
lilac stag
We get bug fixes after DH gets kyveza spec.
north schooner
eb stacks to 8 👍 🏄♀️ 🏄♂️
upper narwhal
Tornado buffed by 50% next week dw
swift tinsel
Personally I think coup buff was a bit too big but I will not complain one bit if it stays as is lol
swift tinsel
Idk where sub baseline is compared to other specs so it could justify being a bigger gain percentage wise for us
lilac stag
Idk where sub baseline is compared to other specs so it could justify being a bi...
If you don’t know that you logically can’t say it’s too much.
grizzled bobcat
Trickster hits pretty hard right?
hazy breach
Idk where sub baseline is compared to other specs so it could justify being a bi...
Not too low
slate marlin
We get bug fixes after DH gets kyveza spec.
mind blowing if dh gets kyveza spec rather than kyveza spec being more kyveza
swift tinsel
If you don’t know that you logically can’t say it’s too much.
Seeing the change in damage contribution can warrant that assessment
When coup jumps to 25-28% of damage
From what, 10%?
lilac stag
so one spell went up. Our baseline is still low
haughty mural
How does it play out in m+ now
swift tinsel
so one spell went up. Our baseline is still low
Yes, and the tuning of that one spell is what’s in question
haughty mural
Im curios
swift tinsel
Or rather the impact of the tier set on that one spell
lilac stag
that one spell isn’t going to catapult a low tuned spec to number 1 melee. It’s helping make the burst window a bit more bursty.
swift tinsel
None of that is mutually exclusive with my point
hazy breach
I mean you get to cast coup 30% (35% now) and 2x as much
So its damage should skyrocket if you cast it 170% more often
lilac stag
None of that is mutually exclusive with my point
you’re saying it’s too much, but you have nothing to compare it to
swift tinsel
you’re saying it’s too much, but you have nothing to compare it to
Yes, to its previous damage contribution
summer lynx
I mean I saw a sim chart before these notes got patched and sub is still simming higher than both other specs. Not that that means much but
lilac stag
Yes, to its previous damage contribution
What?
swift tinsel
Okay try and follow along
lilac stag
who cares where it is on the damage breakdown.
dry plank
guys new burst king on PTR right now is shadow briest?
lucid jackal
Ofc aoe affects it a bit but this was yesterdays testing
summer lynx
shadow and MM as well as BM likely getting a nerf soon
bleak night
shadow briest is everything king
indigo steppe
'Oh, we got CE, I can chill for the rest of the season' Hahahano
ye i got CE for first time this season was kinda surprised people reclear after that i was like wait i thought i was done
lilac stag
is sub actually doing good dmg relative to other dps
swift tinsel
Thank you
summer lynx
Sub is middle of the pack its doing well compared to the other two specs
lucid jackal
Sub seems above average now
But the OP specs are so much better than the rest its not funny
Shadow/FDK/BM still are like
lilac stag
and none of that matters if the spec is bottom 1/3 of dps for example. It’s just a dmg breakdown.
lilac stag
but we got attention so yay
sly shore
sub is very good on 2nd boss
lilac stag
And it’s nice burst
sly shore
but it's 2nd boss
lilac stag
Yay.
lucid jackal
hard bosses have damage amps
sly shore
so it doesn't matter
lilac stag
We getting there.
bleak night
im seeing sub rogues on details meters this time
lucid jackal
Sub rogue still explodes damage amps
haughty mural
True
sly shore
outlaw was looking it did damage but
sub and assa just fit raid so much better still lol
haughty mural
Sub will be really good for prog imo
summer lynx
Any idea what trinkets we'll be looking at for s3? Im guessing lilly and something else ya?
haughty mural
Lily is whack
swift tinsel
Ad lapidem
trail furnace
Is it true having 2 681 Embellished is stronger than having 2 684s?
lilac stag
amping coup changes play? Sound good to me.
merry agate
Prism? Our own little spymasters?
elfin pilot
any m+ build for ptr? :>
lilac stag
Same as always
haughty mural
Same as on live
elfin pilot
aightttt ty
haughty mural
Damn not first
summer lynx
Is prism an on use?
hazy breach
Any idea what trinkets we'll be looking at for s3? Im guessing lilly and somethi...
Lily stinky
summer lynx
Oh really we aint touching lily?
hazy breach
Currently its cursed stone idol from halls
Is insanely overtuned
But otherwise its prism
lilac stag
Damn not first <:Syphahuh:1043317803190603887>
getting upset over coup moving up details being too much fired up my texting speed.
hazy breach
Once the halls trinket get tuned down
summer lynx
Unyielding netherprism ya?
swift tinsel
Who’s upset 
merry agate
They changed HoC from 2 min to 1,5m
Maaaayyybeeee
hazy breach
If theres any change i would like it would be prism capping at 18 or 20 stacks instead of 20
swift tinsel
18 would be the sweet spot imo
hazy breach
Ye but 20 is a smoother number
slate marlin
is anyone streaming sub testing?
hollow spear
Need to check how to properly track coup/2nd coup in my WA
Let's see what cursed tech people come up with after the 4p buffs
swift tinsel
How do you track it currently?
hollow spear
Escalating blade tracker that turns into coup symbol when I have 4 stacks plus fazed on target
swift tinsel
It should just keep the coup symbol
lilac stag
details scrambles his fybro
You’re the one claiming it’s too much of details bruh
swift tinsel
Depending on how you have it set up it’ll have a duration on the aura
lilac stag
keep my out of your fantasy island
hollow spear
Wouldn't it make sense to have a countdown showing too?
swift tinsel
If it tracks escalating blade using the spell id or buff name it should automatically add a timer
Once you use first coup
hollow spear
Okay, I'll look into that
swift tinsel
Actually I haven’t checked if the spell id is different for the 2nd coup buff but if you do it by name that should work. That’s how I have mine set up
north schooner
id is the same
swift tinsel
Ah nice then yeah either way should work
hollow spear
Usually you want to get it off ASAP anyways
It's just about the potential coup sectec coup thing
Not sure if that's really something you can naturally weave into your flag window or if it's more about the in between dances (if we're not on a set timer due to adds/encounter specific things)
north schooner
having said that even though it uses the same spell id my WA is acting a bit wonky with the duration version of the buff. The fact that it goes from permanent buff to duration buff might be throwing it off
swift tinsel
What’s it doing?
north schooner
you can see here. The one two in the middle are WAs (the same but one is resized for visibility). The tracker on the left is Raven to check whether this is a WA issue. They both start their timer swipe at almost finished. I managed to fix that for the WAs by manually setting the minimum progress to 0 and maximum to 5
so I wonder if they are doing something weird with how the buff is implemented
swift tinsel
Weird, never seen it do that
Mine does the same thing as the one on the left, just starts counting
north schooner
even the one on the left starts its progress at almost max swipe
hazy breach
Which is quite a lot worse tbh
As its doing 15% less
Oh and guess what
It also doesnt buff shadowed finisher
Who woulda guessed
north spire
subt felt fine on the ptr. i can deal with the bugs tbh 
slate marlin
How big would it be to fix nimble bugs and shadowed finisher in aoe?
legis question, not rly up to date with how impactful it is
hazy breach
Like 20-25%
slate marlin
Excuse me what the fuck
pliant topaz
xd
slate marlin
Thats gigaenormous from bugs alone
tepid trellis
It also doesnt buff shadowed finisher
almost like i called that
pliant topaz
almost like i called that
bro pretending like thats not the norm!
oh no im gonna call the suns coming up tmrw
lilac stag
Thats gigaenormous from bugs alone
pliant topaz
at this point just delete that fuckign talent
what about all the filler FW and FW related talents then!
nah cant have that
tepid trellis
take them out back
pliant topaz
take them out back
lowkey id be down, just leave the nodes empty. put a joke inside them instead
still better
like this talent gives you + 1 rizz
keen dome
Make it shoot fireworks on a crit
alpine wraith
ahahaha
lilac stag
Just make a full column of +1 luck
alpine wraith
just read the tier set
shrewd lantern
all im hearing is sin season
alpine wraith
bug
shrewd lantern
atp
alpine wraith
they might get another 5%
swift tinsel
They’re the darling rogue spec so ofc
runic trail
all im hearing is sin season
all i'm hearing is the voices in my head wtf
remote eagle
its either sub season or reroll season 
bleak wind
Its 30% to the first one
at this point the tooltips are just 'this is what we wanted to do, but you have to figure out what it actually does'
runic trail
Its whatever season I feel like because my guild isn't very good (and neither am I) so ANYTHING IS VIABLE BAYBEEEE
pliant topaz
at this point the tooltips are just 'this is what we wanted to do, but you have ...
I wanna make a joke but last time I did it, Realz got mad at me
sly shore
smile
bleak wind
I wanna make a joke but last time I did it, Realz got mad at me
do it
swift tinsel
I wanna make a joke but last time I did it, Realz got mad at me
He doesn’t talk in here anymore so you’re good
remote eagle
Its whatever season I feel like because my guild isn't very good (and neither am...
but deep inside you know
runic trail
but deep inside you know
If I knew shit I'd be in a higher ranked guild
swift tinsel
Even when I offered him money
north schooner
I found another issue with the timed buff. Sometimes after you send your first CdG your second CdG will not show a duration until you press another ability. Here the timer only shows in the last second after I press SS. I thought it was Raven bugging but this is with default buff frames
runic trail
sub overperforms hc week
We're making a collective agreement to sandbag
shrewd lantern
We're making a collective agreement to sandbag
ok im doing hc week with OBR
bleak wind
with how it is right now it might not even be good in hc
runic trail
ok im doing hc week with OBR
I'm doing it with goremaw
pliant topaz
do it
idk if you remember the reference, but "the games like a candy, sometimes you gotta open it up to see what you got u know"
only the s3 tierset people will remember this one
hazy breach
PTR Updates 10/7
- They buffed the deathstalker tierset, however deathstalker is still massively behind numerically and feels significantly worse to play.
- They also buffed the trickster tierset. The 2p is stronger but the 4p change they did is actually not what the notes say. The set now says:
Coup de Grace may now be activated a second time within 5 sec, dealing 150% of normal damage
HOWEVER what it actually does ingame is buff only the FIRST coup you do by 50%, but it does not properly buff shadowed finishers so its more like a 30% buff, again to the FIRST cast of coup, not the second like the notes say, which is worse as we will not have as many flawless form stacks up. - Including the bug this is about a ~5% buff.
PS: I also want to highlight some of the more egregious bugs sub has been stuck with since the launch of tww.
- Nimble Flurry does not work with Shadow Blades in any capacity
- Nimble Flurry does not cleave shadow damage properly, leading to Shadowed finishers from Coup and Evis cleaving about 30% less than they should.
As of <t:1753490666:R> these bugs are still active
swift tinsel
I was pretty satisfied deleting the s3 testing spreadsheet
pliant topaz
lowkey though, i cannot blame anyone at blizz or the team. with how shit the situation is there, i just straight up feel bad for them, and hope theyre mentally not too stressed
pliant topaz
doing 20+ hours of dummy testing
for tier?
lilac stag
I wanna make a joke but last time I did it, Realz got mad at me
He’d have to actually see it to get mad
pliant topaz
remember the bot txt made to evis a dummy 10,000 times?
then we did maximum likelihood optimization to figure out the probabilities
runic trail
lowkey though, i cannot blame anyone at blizz or the team. with how shit the sit...
At the end of the day, we shouldn't be mad at the devs, we should be mad at the execs.
Which tends to be the root of the issue
bleak wind
idk if you remember the reference, but "the games like a candy, sometimes you go...
I don't remember it but it sounds about right
pliant topaz
then we realized it was stacked, but it was bugged (one time it went 4 times withour proccing out of 10,000)
banger times
lilac stag
At the end of the day, we shouldn't be mad at the devs, we should be mad at the ...
This has been going on since forever.
trail furnace
Hey y’all, currently maxed out ilvl, just wondering if two 681 Embellished items are better than two 684 Myth? Thanks!
slate marlin
At the end of the day, we shouldn't be mad at the devs, we should be mad at the ...
doubt developers wanted to shorten content cycle, noe every patch launches rushed bc it has to be rushed
lilac stag
Devs are not innocent. At some point you need to say hey this is fucked and needs to get looked at.
management and communication all go into it
pliant topaz
there are things I will blame the dev team for, but thats like 20% of my complaints
lilac stag
rogues problem is they keep putting good(ish) work on top of bad work and it spirals.
pliant topaz
80% is to the higher ups
tepid trellis
Hey y’all, currently maxed out ilvl, just wondering if two 681 Embellished items...
yes they are, they worth around 1% dps per slot, which is more than 3 ilvl
lilac stag
It’s like putting down an amazing hardwood floor when the subfloor is out of level and fucked up.
trail furnace
yes they are, they worth around 1% dps per slot, which is more than 3 ilvl
Thanks!
bleak wind
there are things I will blame the dev team for, but thats like 20% of my complai...
you can blame higher ups for design decisions probably, but if it says it does X thing and it does something else completely its on the implementation
bleak night
i blame canada
lilac stag
hard to check your work when neck deep in kyveza DH spec
pliant topaz
you can blame higher ups for design decisions probably, but if it says it does X...
i mean thats kinda w/e its ptr for a reason. itll get fixed (maybe). my problem is with a lot of bigger problems both with the game, and with the class / spec.
lilac stag
I feel like DOGE is responsible for sub development.
remote eagle
99% they ain't fixing shit, lets all agree to play one-button assistant for first two weeks to at least get an aura buff
pliant topaz
like sure, I think some of the mistakes are kinda insane
for a tech company to have as horrible of a version control system is embarrassing
for a dev team to work on a spec and take this little feedback is embarassing
for deathstalker to get released in the state it did is embarassing
for the same exact problems happen every patch that we are now meming it (shadowed finsihers for ex) is embarassing
lilac stag
easier just to bury your head in the sand
pliant topaz
but those are small ish concerns in my book
bleak wind
i mean thats kinda w/e its ptr for a reason. itll get fixed (maybe). my problem ...
yea I guess, its PTR and things get changed quick and dirty but there are still things that haven't worked for a while or rather there are still the same issues that arise with every new things they add, mainly the shadowed finishers and things like that
hazy breach
for deathstalker to get released in the state it did is embarassing
"ye its last week of alpha, surely theyll fix it come beta"
clever delta
are you guys saying we have more bugs now
lilac stag
getting paid the same
hazy breach
Now its over a year later and its still fucked
clever delta
just asking for friend
bleak wind
at some point you just fix how its implemented so it doesn't get broken every patch
lilac stag
sadly only way shit gets fixed is if people stop playing.
pliant topaz
"ye its last week of alpha, surely theyll fix it come beta"
im sitll shocked that wowhead posted deathstalker, we read it, didnt even test it, we had no idea what it was like, we just read it, and said yeah if this thing stacks, sub can never proc the capstone. and that was something they didnt think about? like cmon, u gotta be ashamed
clever delta
oh shit assa get aura buff already
sick jackal
sadly only way shit gets fixed is if people stop playing.
Might not be true sub has only like 600 parses already
The spec is dead already
Which is really low
bleak wind
but to me it also seems like there is almost no communication between the teams, how can you have unseen blades stacks be wasted if you have coup ready and then every other class with the same effect can just keep stacking it and not disrupt their playstyle for no reason
lilac stag
Might not be true sub has only like 600 parses already
it still gets played in heroic.
I’m talking game overall. Not just quitting rogue.
pliant topaz
at some point you just fix how its implemented so it doesn't get broken every pa...
you would think that, but idk. I really really dont know and understand how hours are being spent ther.
like if you have 10 people in charge of tuning, design, hero talents, class related things
and the outcome of their work is 5 lines of patchnotes every week
wtf is the time being spent on
pliant topaz
like everything is a disgusting scripted shit show
lilac stag
having a conversation with AI GMs is amusing.
north schooner
I found another issue with the timed buff. Sometimes after you send your first C...
tested this again and sometimes the duration doesn't show even after one ability 
if it stays like that it might require a timer that doesn't use the actual buff duration
clever delta
i think they work at lot more stuff at the same time
lilac stag
they just don’t finish half the shit they start
hollow python
im assuming the new 4pc is impractical to play around without a weakaura~~?~~ if it worked as intended~~?~~
bleak night
working on housing
tepid trellis
well not really
bleak night
the true endgame
tepid trellis
you just have 5 seconds to press evis again
dont really need a WA to tell you that
lilac stag
working on housing
Rogue will get a crate to hide in for a house.
keen dome
We have that already
keen dome
Can't believe rogue got housing early
remote eagle
We have that already
recolor then
north schooner
they can make it a cardboard box this time
runic trail
Housing should be fun, gonna try and remake the dalaran sewer vibe
hollow python
so no need to worry about cold blood'ing the gigacoup, holding coup for dance/symbols/backstab/cb gigacoup or unseen blade procs or some other tracking, just rotation as usual?
hazy breach
Just storm inbetween coups to not waste unseen blade stacks
lilac stag
Just storm inbetween coups to not waste unseen blade stacks
How about shuriken toss?
hazy breach
If you want to thats fine
lilac stag
if I want to mix it up
runic trail
lilac stag
I figured you did
hazy breach
Neither spell does any damage so
swift tinsel
Shuriken toss the 40 energy goat
north schooner
use shuriken toss so that it doesn't feel abandoned 
tepid trellis
(yes i checked)
im gonna do that just for people to question it
good shout
"why the fuck is this bozo pressing toss"
bleak night
tepid trellis
lilac stag
im gonna do that just for people to question it
Private logs bozo
tepid trellis
and ofc stream it
alpine wraith
because im bad so will be rank whatever we are
tepid trellis
people usually go ape shit when i do weird stuff
lilac stag
the real answer is he’ll be playing assa on prog anyways.
alpine wraith
dont worry assa just needs 1 or 2 more 5%
tepid trellis
been a while since ive progged a whole tier as assa
sly shore
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
lilac stag
so you’re saying you’re due for it.
sullen hare
That pin is so sad lmao
tepid trellis
dont really care either way
tepid trellis
if its better ill play it
hazy breach
It doesnt take much for it to fell great
tepid trellis
if its same then i play sub
lilac stag
ofc
hazy breach
Just a few changes and sub goes from playing well to playing fantastic
But nah
Gotta keep jank, cant do any changes
pliant topaz
Neither spell does any damage so
use both! 200IQ for dms tacks
lilac stag
Whenever Prophet wakes up his head is going to explode
rotund pawn
im just happy i wont lose whole tier set bonus because i decided to press one global in between dances in burst, we need to be grateful
lilac stag
imagine having built up more than two stack from the first dance.
half comet
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
upper narwhal
My no.1 fear is that they buff death stalker enough to make it numerically better, such a shit hero talent
swift tinsel
They’d have to do some outlandish things to the set to make it better
plain dust
rogues class fantasy is jank
bleak night
bis class fantasy
brittle plinth
narrow girder
I'm looking to play rogue some, and am in the process of making some weakauras. I might have some other questions, but for now I'm wondering if its worth tracking find weakness and finality
acoustic lodge
Im just praying for a sub rework for the next expansion
short radish
no sub doesnt need a rework, sub just needs a refine
tepid trellis
I'm looking to play rogue some, and am in the process of making some weakauras. ...
FW itself, not really just how many you have up, Finality no
narrow girder
ty
short radish
!wa
wicked joltBOT
short radish
you can also look at these weakauras for reference
narrow girder
cool
bleak night
Super Tarzan
how do they get 5 man neeko into 5 man shuffle and still lose
brisk onyx
how do they get 5 man neeko into 5 man shuffle and still lose
Man
pliant topaz
also toplaners looking fair and balanced
brisk onyx
tribal blade
lol i love the fact that i immediately went to the pins to check what was going on with the buffs
and of COURSE it's not what they told us
hazy breach
Not that i think the tier needed any buffs for sub
But here we are, yet again with a buggy overtuned tierset thats just gonna get nerfed instead of fixed
tranquil egret
What sub needs is shuriken combo
hazy breach
All deathstalker effects are also bugged and dont apply to Shadowed finishers but i choose to omit that because its tied to deathstalker
spice matrix
hazy breach
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
tribal blade
All deathstalker effects are also bugged and dont apply to Shadowed finishers bu...
sorry we don't fix bugs round these parts
hazy breach
For anybody interested in what more exciting bugs we have head over to the spreadsheet
narrow girder
FW itself, not really just how many you have up, Finality no
is there something we're thinkinga bout in regards to how many are active?
spice matrix
ouch that spreadsheet is depressing
hazy breach
is there something we're thinkinga bout in regards to how many are active?
Kind of yes, BP does more damage than eviscerate with 5 fw active
tiny sierra
ouch that spreadsheet is depressing
tell gabe he sucks
hazy breach
(as trickster with nimble)
narrow girder
ah
hazy breach
And during blades you only really need 3 find weaknesses up for BP to outdamage eviscerate
spice matrix
tell gabe he sucks
gotchu fam
hazy breach
But that blades bit is kinda minor
slow gorge
Hello i'm very new to the class and spec, so i use hekili (shame on me) is their somethingthat i must know ?
ornate ruin
tell gabe he sucks
what u got against gabe
ornate ruin
damn i'm sorry
tiny sierra
im on his 2nd guild
tiny sierra
damn i'm sorry
yea, i know
if you think its bad on raids irl its even worse
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
humble haven
whats up chat anyone excited for the upcoming tier
tiny sierra
whats up chat anyone excited for the upcoming tier
another gabe hater?
spice matrix
hello joe, what spec are you
humble haven
another gabe hater?
nah im here to raise my post count i want to break 400k one day
tiny sierra
nah im here to raise my post count i want to break 400k one day
i see i see
pliant topaz
I had tarzan as best jungler in msi before it started but didnt think he would be this good
imo shanks best mid
tarzan best jg
kael prob top 3 support
hope top 2 adc
flandre top 2 top
pliant topaz
not really
tabe said they scrim 8 games
so like 9-10 hours
but then they are degens and are doing KR solo q till 3 am
brisk onyx
steel jolt
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
crisp lion
@pliant topaz al clutched lfg
tribal blade
@hazy breach is there a bug with IC
i was helping my guildies do a cinderbrew
i was playing bleed, activated vanish and had the IC buff
but it was putting garrote on cd and only generating 1 cp during it
was very confused
lilac stag
sir this is a Wendy’s not an assa rogue channel
steel jolt
indiscriminate carnage, more like indiscriminate chatting
lucid jackal
Hello gamers
How was testing today
I'm feeling really good about sub now
Tuning seems solid and theres damage amp bosses
Lookin good for the goat
I suspect big BM/FDK/Shadow/Dev nerfs still and probably another round of rogue buffs
plush roost
I did 4.7m ST to Halkias today
pewpew
idk whats good or not
but that felt pretty wild
bleak night
what a gamer
lilac stag
gamers gaming game
round latch
lapis hatch
i was playing bleed, activated vanish and had the IC buff
Did you have improved garrote talented?
lapis hatch
If you use garrote before vanish, IC won’t reset the cooldown on garrote
That’s all I can think of
pearl swan
hollow spear
I suspect big BM/FDK/Shadow/Dev nerfs still and probably another round of rogue ...
You lost me at dev nerfs, I'm not sure the know how that works
steel zinc
I suspect big BM/FDK/Shadow/Dev nerfs still and probably another round of rogue ...
I hope so
pliant topaz
<@639956635300790285> al clutched lfg
Bro al are legit my favourite team to watch right now ( and cfo) I can’t wait for the next 2 set of games… it’s gonna be cinema
Also if these teams keep up like this, worlds is gonna be phenomenal
haughty mural
I'm feeling really good about sub now
Same
Only the 4pc bug annoys me
steel zinc
The issue is more that coup is such a hack of an ability and frankensteins Monster. Baseline spell for coup still is death from above just with a new animation
steel zinc
hate how it had that shit too at the start.
Yeah that too. It's still now looks like a new spell, but it's so buggy no wonder
And imo that spell is how the whole game is coded. Just fast pace with 0 foundation
I highly doubt that they can actually fix most class/spec buffs across the game without breaking anything much bigger
formal helm
🤷
think it's possible, it's just ...tedious probably?
also with shadowed finishers, with how much trouble they're having with it
you'd think they'd either fix it
or just outright remove it if they can't come up with a solution
🤷
steel zinc
or just outright remove it if they can't come up with a solution
That what they did with nightstalker talent
They couldn't fix it for years and then just removed it
The shadow finishers never worked if I can recall correct
So they 100% can't fix it without investing massive amount of dev work.
It's just easier to slap a 10% buff onto evis or w/e
steel zinc
Idk I think it's mostly has to do with design coming up with stuff and then some other dev that usually does coding for lots of parts for the game having not the time to fix class bugs
Most game developments designers can't code fix any stuff that isn't part of the dev tools
So it's bugged forever
heady dragon
The issue is more that coup is such a hack of an ability and frankensteins Monst...
wait, what??
steel zinc
wait, what??
it is
like coups baseline spell is death from above thats where all the bugs come from
its frankensteins monster
they took dfa and made out of it coup
keen dome
We're so strong they had to split our damage across eight eviserates.
heady dragon
like coups baseline spell is death from above thats where all the bugs come from
reminds me how the worthless deathstalker "build stacks that do dmg when enemy is at 30% hp" thing is literally just a renamed inkpod and was the inkpod effect early ln
keen dome
lmao yeah
On one hand reusing stuff is really smart from a development perspective, esp if it works well.
On the other hand when it doesn't work well.. lmao
alpine wraith
blizz can have interesting ideas
then implementation shits the bed
but they have time to fix it at least this time
in theory
hollow spear
What's buggy about 4p rn?
tepid trellis
the 50% amp is on the first coup and not 2nd
and it doesent work with shadowed finishers (shocking i know)
alpine wraith
be glad it works with blades
keen dome
Someday they'll fix those bugs and we'll be the kings of the world for a day until they nerf us
hollow spear
Ig the first one is kinda unintentionally helpful for supercharging? 😅
Which one doesn't work with sf? The second one?
vale pine
tbh its still a good set
tepid trellis
Which one doesn't work with sf? The second one?
the 50% increase
hollow spear
Lmao, that's a classic one
keen dome
tbh its still a good set
It'd be nice if it worked as intended though 😦
hollow spear
Just like the crit stuff not working with nimble
vale pine
i mean, its kinda subtlety philosophy
we don't have things that work like its writen on the tooltip
keen dome
Being wrong, by design? 
keen dome
I am hoping it gets fixed relatively quickly. I assume they just stuck it on the wrong spellID
hollow spear
It doesn't affect our rotation, it doesn't affect st vs aoe
As long as we're performing alright vs other specs, I won't lose sleep over it
lucid jackal
Sub felt mega good on testing
hollow spear
Are we manifesting nerfs in week 1?
lucid jackal
Nah rogue gets another buff b4 launch for sure
lucid jackal
We just love pretending sub hasnt been meta rogue spec for 100 years
hollow spear
Not me
lucid jackal
All good, I know what spec I'm preppin to play on prog already
keen dome
Outlaw?
glacial orbit
Nah rogue gets another buff b4 launch for sure
watch sin get aura buffed by 50-100%
a day before patch
hollow spear
Isn't sin still ass?
tepid trellis
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
keen dome
We're gonna get those big mega crit coups during amps
hollow spear
Yeah, big amp fan
keen dome
and it's gonna be great