subtlety

[keen dome]

LLM's are gonna burst and everybody will go to shit

[lilac stag]

Everything is cooked, not just tech

[keen dome]

Microsft cutting 9000+ jobs 'cos Copilot is shitting itself to death at a 30b+ investment that's made like, 500m at most.

[pliant topaz]

not sure what this means tbh

[keen dome]

When the AI craze goes to shit and the bubble bursts.

The amount of money invested into it is astronomical and the technology, as they are trying to push it, has no future.

[pliant topaz]

yeah i meant not sure why that would really happen

a lot of things have already been replaced or heavily integrated

and theyre fine

[chrome palm]

i mean openai isnt exactly printing money

[keen dome]

I mean Microsoft have put 30 billion into it and made a fraciton of that back. It devours cash.

[chrome palm]

they just keep securing investment

[pliant topaz]

oh yeah for sure

[chrome palm]

surely it will pay off

eventually

[pliant topaz]

i mean microsoft announced theyre cutting off investing in AI research no?

they said theyre done with that, and only want to invest in building resources for it

not that atual research

that was a few months ago

i think a lot of the research is gonna be slowing down.

like the partnerships at my grad school lab with large companies has slowed down for exm

[keen dome]

Yeah, but at the same time they're mandating that everybody in microsoft has to use copilot.

[pliant topaz]

like when iw as in grad school i worked with meta, adobe, google, autodesk

but i think right now we only work with meta and autodesk

but thats because the supervisors at the lab have heavy connections

[hollow spear]

I feel like the truth with AI is somewhere in the middle

[keen dome]

it's not

[hollow spear]

Some people make it sound like it's the second coming of jesus#

Others say it will die and never do anything

[vale pine]

meta did buy out a lot of openai people

[pliant topaz]

I think its already proved to be very very useful

[pliant topaz]

yeah i heard. I think openAI is a lil cooked

their investments are drying up

people arent staying

costs are really high

but yeah this is canada i just looked up time frame is 2022-2025 may

people are clearly losing their jobs over something

atleast in tech I can def feel it

[chrome palm]

yeah its one of those things

where the government removes people from the labor force and then goes: "look, unemployment is low!"

because they arent being considered

[pliant topaz]

this is employment rate

meaning unemployment is up 2%

right now in canada its the highest its been since sep 2016

[chrome palm]

idk how canada does it

but in the us labor force participation is low last i checked

so the actual unemployment rate doesnt show the full picture

[pliant topaz]

Yeah unemployment rate always undershows

[chrome palm]

i think the desparity has increased in recent years

[swift tinsel]

Ye

[hollow spear]

I get the feeling the next years will be come quite the shitshow

[swift tinsel]

Looks like it was a fairly steady decline from 2008-2015 where it leveled off a bit around 63% then obv Covid nosedive but % is ~62% now

Looking at labor force totals

On phone tho so annoying to look at charts

[pliant topaz]

aight its time to go watch MSI. Cant wait to meet laure in person! o7

[alpine wraith]

dont worry everyone knows sub players are invaluable to the world

so we cant become unemployed

[chrome palm]

no man when the class war starts rogues will be the first to go

[brittle plinth]

We hide well

[alpine wraith]

many will die

[chrome palm]

people got classic wow world pvp prejudice

[alpine wraith]

but we wont

[brittle plinth]

The devs for sure do

[alpine wraith]

we are dozens so harder to kill all us of

with spread we are

[brittle plinth]

We don't multiply

[alpine wraith]

i wonder if classic pandaria will have the deadly throw situation

was very fun

[chrome palm]

hachadino... you have rogues under your floorboards, do you not?

[alpine wraith]

not for others

but for me

[potent relic]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[prisma rain]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

also just though about prism and forge

[swift tinsel]

Seems viable

Very likely better than lily bc lily is stinky

Unless they buff it so it’s not barely better than house

[hollow spear]

leaving it in its current state would be kinda criminal

compared to what else is there

even though prism + forge is kind of a lot to ask for

won't get two trinkets from guild raids for the first couple of weeks

[alpine wraith]

problem with lily is that it kinda loses value form being out of cd for longer

so the budget allocation is lost kinda

you can forge nether prism forge

etc

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, forge is the closest we get to a 3min on-use to play with prism

[swift tinsel]

Antenna is a decent alternative from boss #2

Idk how your guild distributes loot

[hazy breach]

Or just get pacemaker

[swift tinsel]

Ye that too

[hazy breach]

And/or the delve trinkets, depending on exactly which ones are available

[vestal escarp]

Crystal is back

[swift tinsel]

There’s a delve/open world trinket that gives vers on damage taken proc but idk if that’s only direct damage

Assuming it is

[chrome palm]

Mastery delve trinket not too bad I think

[swift tinsel]

But we probs can’t get it

Voidstone?

[chrome palm]

But I’m not a big believe

Believer

[swift tinsel]

Was annoying to play with when I tried it

[chrome palm]

Since you don’t get first pull and what not

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, it procced in a weird spot too

[chrome palm]

Have to wait for things to die and as sub

That’s when your damage is over

But it would be good if it’s weak

Delve farming heroic trinkets

[swift tinsel]

Idk if I ever saw a hero track drink on my rogue lol

And I did 8/8 most weeks for achiev progress

[alpine wraith]

i got it on my alt

but not main

[swift tinsel]

I need to summon the will to finish darkfuse farm

Thankfully darkmoon starts tomorrow I think so less needed

[runic trail]

You're a braver man than I am

I just hit honoured but thats just through normal undermine stuff

[swift tinsel]

I just need to finish revered but I keep getting groups that dip after a few minutes or don’t bring speakers

So it’s been taking longer

[brittle plinth]

Darkfuse rep is exhausting

[swift tinsel]

got about 4-5 hours left that I'm about to start

[bleak night]

[swift tinsel]

I do it as holy paladin so I basically just drop consecrate and throw out holy shocks and have something entertaining on the other monitor

or vdh and do all the pulling

[bleak night]

i havent built up the willpower to do it yet

[swift tinsel]

groups are hit or miss so it can get frustrating

[bleak night]

but will prob just do it on boomkin

[swift tinsel]

dots tend to kill them outside the bonus drop circles so be wary

same with starfall if they're in combat

need to venn diagram the circles a bit for more coverage maybe

[bleak night]

or just take off some gear

[brittle plinth]

unzips

[swift tinsel]

another disbando

lmao

[fleet wharf]

Hey, whats the move that used to give us funnel called again? you guy call it combo but I dunno what it is

[molten citrus]

shuriken combo?

[fleet wharf]

Yea, that seems to be it. had to double check vs what we currently have

doesn't even look taht strong compared to some of the currently available funnel

[molten citrus]

I think it was just considered very strong funnel for the time it was around, but I’m not sure as I wasn’t playing back then

[fleet wharf]

I kind of get it though. I just ran a key as assa bleed build and the funnel in that build is already insane

[molten citrus]

I think it also went through multiple iterations and nerfs

[fleet wharf]

but yea, also wasn't playing at the time, thanks for the clarification

[molten citrus]

So that tooltip might be from after it was nerfed

[shrewd lantern]

10% in legion, then nerfed to 5 on bfa beta before buffed to 8 then nerfed to 5 again

[haughty rose]

anything wrong with using 684 PvE set gear for PvP? it's prtty much the same as max PvP gear right?

[shrewd lantern]

There is no loss

sometimes you see people use pve gear on tr

[plush roost]

jobs done

[jaunty heath]

gz as sub rog?

[plush roost]

rookery dfc i swap sub halfway

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, huge score

Amazing work

[molten citrus]

as long as you have a good amount of vers/mast. crit/haste are dogwater in pvp especially.

[molten citrus]

You also need pvp trinket set bonus n shit

[tribal blade]

if you think the funnel in bleed build is crazy try hybrid

[fleet wharf]

I think I need a bit more reps on the hybrid build. I know assa is pretty straightforward, but compared to bleed builds, there are a few more things to keep track of

On a related note, what happens to kingsbane and splatter?

[tribal blade]

yeah there's for sure more to it

[fleet wharf]

if I have a kingsbane ticking up, does the damage also get splattered?

[tribal blade]

it's basically raid build with IC and CT

[tribal blade]

yes

[fleet wharf]

am I mega sad if the mob dies before kingsbane finishes or what?

[tribal blade]

kingsbane, envenom, and even poison bomb spatters

[tribal blade]

yeah kinda sad

that's why it sucks in low keys

you need a big target to live the entire duration of your cds

[fleet wharf]

makes sense

[wet haven]

God gamer!

[vale pine]

nice congrats

[tribal blade]

WOOOOO

damn i'm in trouble

welp i better click this link before i get suspended

[vale pine]

oh ye the BLLÌzzard support

[tribal blade]

it was nice knowing you guys 😦

[vale pine]

🫡

[tight sparrow]

[vestal escarp]

The nasty shit i would /w the bro

Even knowing it's a bot

[hazy breach]

Now show sub only score

(gzzz, youre mogging me as im stuck around 3.8 )

[plush roost]

LOL

14 floodgate is beyond me unfortunately

[hazy breach]

I think my floodgate is a 10 or some shit

But going of some logs sub doesnt even seem bad in floodgate

In fact sub seems alright pretty much everywhere besides meadery

Not better than the best outlaw/assa logs but better than quite a few of them

[lean cradle]

how much would you say sub is behind to outlaw/assa in raid rn?

[warm marlin]

they're pretty much all the same

[hazy breach]

In raid pretty much same ye, and maybe 5% or so behind in keys

[tribal blade]

@plush roost @hazy breach i'm gonna be in priory hell for a little bit

and then on to getting 0 invites for 20s 🙂

[tribal blade]

honestly seems normal, there are people that were miles ahead of me before and i'm quickly catching up because they're also stuck around 3800

i feel like the resil system has done a crazy amount of key inflation and might make the cutoff this season very hard to make

[hazy breach]

Ye priory aint much fun

[hazy breach]

Ye but id rather have inflation than having to do more homework keys

[tribal blade]

that's fair

i'm just worried because i don't have a team

[hazy breach]

But ye its probably not gonna go that much above 3.8k because 20s are definitely where the keys starts to get hard for real

[tribal blade]

yeah it definitely looks that way

the good thing is i've been running with quite a few phys comp teams recently

[hazy breach]

Like workshop, on 20 i need to feint every dispel on the dog or i die, on 19s i live anyway if im at full

[tribal blade]

i absolutely cranked a 19 rookery with phys, ended up doing the most dps at ~4.7 mil overall even while afk after the 2nd boss when hearthing to swap to sub

[tribal blade]

workshop i'm actually not overly concerned about the timer tbh because the 19 i timed timer didn't seem an issue

but yeah the damage going out in workshop is wild

those dogs are so scary

that's most of the problem right now is just living everything

[hazy breach]

Ye timer is fine but having 0 deaths on third boss is really hard

So you cant have much mistakes before that since you often need the crs for that boss

[tribal blade]

yeah we had 1 death on the 19 on that boss, but it was at the very end of the fight so wasn't too big a deal

[hazy breach]

That boss is too long for how locked in you need to be

[tribal blade]

they should have changed the gears

just like they changed stuff for next season

[hazy breach]

Im personally a hater of the blue circle

[tribal blade]

less upfront damage but leaves a dot

[tribal blade]

ok yes that's just excessive

it's like

ok

there's a billion gears

a billion red circles

lasers that come out

do we REALLY also need the boss to do an aoe in melee

like is that seriously necessary

[hazy breach]

Obviously you just "get gud" and dont die, but ye, a bit too much imo

[tribal blade]

yeah i was really bad on that boss up until recently

just needed to mega focus up and seriously dial in

avoid stuff at all costs no matter what rotational mistakes you make

and it's gucci

[cosmic elk]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lean cradle]

are you fully pushing as sub Eleem?

[daring raptor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[opal basalt]

is that title already btw?

[lean cradle]

in eu you need resi 19 for title i believe

[hazy breach]

Im afraid not, assa just does more in a lot of the keys

Ye all 19s is pretty much spot on title right now in eu

[tribal blade]

for NA yeah

[tribal blade]

not needing to either sacrifice prio dam or aoe is a big plus as sin too

[opal basalt]

thats crazy tbh

resilient keys really pushed the bar

[molten citrus]

Turbo boost ilvl and key nerfs help

[opal basalt]

that too yeah

[molten citrus]

[warm marlin]

no chance some guy on ptr just flew into the horde dummies in orgrimmar as ally to fear people hitting dummies

that is insane work

[fleet wharf]

Kind of funny because they wre talking about key levels feeling empty and doing the squish at the beginning of the expansion only to have it end up right back where it was in just the 2nd season

[tribal blade]

considering how inflated the keys are right now every single one feels like an execution check

especially as dps it's a lot of do-you-know-how-to-use-your-defensives

if it wasn't for the resil system i would guess the top end keys being done would be like 20s, 21s for DFC and ML

and title would have ended up being probably 18-19s

because the amount of 19s i've timed by just running someone's resil key for like 3-4 hours straight till you finally get it

[alpine wraith]

i think resil is an oferall positive

likely there are way more people playing because of that

[tribal blade]

i think it's for sure an amazing system for people who do weekly keys yeah

it's interesting though, i've played with a lot of people recently in high keys who absolutely hate the resil system

[alpine wraith]

i mean same as how gamblers hate playing dice but still make time to waste some time throwing some black quicks

[tribal blade]

i've also heard some of them talk about how they wish it was different, someone suggested resil keys only affecting +1 of what you've timed

[tribal blade]

yeah, i hear it the most when we're bricking the same key for hours on end haha

and then eventually "holy shit i hate the resil system" and then log off for the night

[fleet wharf]

so they dislike it allows players to just ram their head in against the key until they eventually time it?

[alpine wraith]

people need to learn that they enjoy the struggle in the moment

even if afterwards you think you wasted your time

[tribal blade]

basically yes

[alpine wraith]

it was still enjoyable

[tribal blade]

but i think those people also have a short memory and have completely forgotten what it's like to have your key bricked -5 levels in the span of 2 hours

[fleet wharf]

but what would be the alternative system? let's say you have resi 15 keys now, but it only has 1 charge of resilience. You bomb it once and now you're back to doing hw keys?

[alpine wraith]

or finally timing the easy key

then get the cursed one

or wanting 1 key and every time you push to that lvl it is a cursed one

[tribal blade]

that was tettle's idea, you get the key at a level and it has charges

[alpine wraith]

then having to find someone with that one and time it

[tribal blade]

you run out the charges and then it depletes

[fleet wharf]

maybe somewhere in the middle, say 5 charges or something and then it starts depleting might be fair because if everyone brings resi keys, you have enough for a session and then some

[tribal blade]

i hate getting the cursed keys 😦

one weird thing i'm seeing right now is people basically able to ride their way through key levels because they know someone with like 18-19 resil

[nocturne hollow]

How are you guys timing theese high keys on sub? I find it struggles on AOE, then I’ve only played sun rouge for 2 seasons now

[tribal blade]

so they can just freeload off that person basically

[tribal blade]

very few sub players, most of us sub players went sin

[fleet wharf]

Charges would kind of fix that problem right?

[hazy breach]

BP goes brrrr

[fleet wharf]

wait, but isn't it more ethical to be not pressing BP if you are to push as sub?

[tribal blade]

i think no matter what system they come up with there will be issues

that's what i'm starting to see

[nocturne hollow]

Ahhh sin being outlaw? I go outlaw now

[tribal blade]

there is no answer, just tradeoffs

[tribal blade]

both sin and outlaw are high performing

sub is not bad, it's just not at that level

[nocturne hollow]

Gotcha thank you for the feedback

[warm marlin]

i mean maybe if you enjoy doing infinity less damage on large packs

[tribal blade]

yeah it's a big problem with sub

either do prio or do aoe

and as sin you do both

very well

[warm marlin]

also bp is still like a high % of an eviscerate right

like 85%

[hazy breach]

Thats with the deathstalker talent

Its like 70% or so as trickster iirc

[tribal blade]

i was bashing my head against a priory today with a 3800 arcane mage and was doing almost equal amounts of prio as him

just couldn't get anywhere close to him on the 2nd mini boss haha

needing to constantly run out of melee for that mini boss blows

[fathom adder]

how do you see where that jump-bleed-boss jumps at? he seems not to target the person or does he

[haughty mural]

Will head enchants from visions still be a thing in s3 ?

Haven’t checked that

[lilac stag]

Hot Take. People playing high keys will never be happy because high keys just aren’t fun. Doesn’t matter what system they do or don’t put in.

[tribal blade]

she'll leap at a random player that's not the tank, the work around is you run out of melee and then you can step your tank once she leaps

[tribal blade]

yeah i agree with that, there's literally never going to be a system that works well haha

[tepid trellis]

ive got a take on this season

that i got some hate for by some friends xD

[tribal blade]

oo hit me

i wanna hear this

[uneven fern]

no

they get disabled when the patch drops

[hazy breach]

It says on them that its only for season 2

[uneven fern]

[tepid trellis]

Resil keys are a mistake as it only really helps all the nolifers who can play the most, and invites people who really arent good enough to be playing at that key level purely because they have more time, basically a bandaid to people that are a worse

[tribal blade]

yeah i agree with this

[uneven fern]

i think it’s an interesting take but it’s misguided

[tribal blade]

i've already seen a bunch of people get boosted with resil keys

[warm marlin]

it does also help teams that don't play often, just not as much

[hazy breach]

@tepid trellis @warm marlin

[warm marlin]

I know my group would have played more last season if we could have just pushed stuff back up while chilling

[tepid trellis]

STOP

[warm marlin]

the fabled gain

[tepid trellis]

RIGHT THIS SECOND

[hazy breach]

+0.7%

[tribal blade]

is that a storm after coup to keep UB proc

[hazy breach]

[tribal blade]

is that what i'm seeing

[tepid trellis]

yeh

[uneven fern]

the idea that nolifers with free time are the ones helped by resi keys isn’t entirely accurate since previously nolifers with free time were the ones who already didn’t need resi keys

no?

[tribal blade]

hahahahahha

[warm marlin]

see that's why I kind of expected new 2p to not be as big of a deal

[tribal blade]

amazing

[uneven fern]

[tribal blade]

we're so back

(back to doing stupid rotational things)

wouldn't be sub without it

[fleet wharf]

wait so we have to relearn the dance rotation again

[warm marlin]

also that's exactly how goremaw plays fwiw

[tribal blade]

it's not so complicated, you would basically just storm after coup in cds

but it would feel dirty

and wrong

[tepid trellis]

not the first time we have done this

unfortunately

[hazy breach]

I love not casting strike

Backstabing and storming instead

[tribal blade]

escalating blade stacking beyond 4 when

[tepid trellis]

i do like the piano

but it just feels wrong

[hollow spear]

Is backstab dead now?

[hazy breach]

No

[hollow spear]

You storm AND backstab?

For DM?

[hazy breach]

You dont storm for DM

[tribal blade]

i guess it makes sense as an optimization because you're potentially losing x2 UBs if you strike after coup

[hollow spear]

Yeah ik

But you get a dm stack from storm

[tribal blade]

which is half a coup

[hollow spear]

So I thought maybe that's enough

And we stop using the single backstab

[tribal blade]

nah the DM doesn't matter

[hollow spear]

Well it does rn

Or else we wouldn't backstab once

[tribal blade]

for backstab yeah

for storm it's purely to not lose UB

[hollow spear]

I understand that

The question for me was if the DM stack we get from storm is enough to not make us press backstab anymore. But apparently not and now we piano even more.

[tribal blade]

yeah dance about to become omega cursed in cds

[tepid trellis]

PM just make the BS free to do

[hollow spear]

Do we attribute that 0.7% gain to 4p? Because we wouldn't do it without the tier set.

[tribal blade]

yeah because of the 30% chance from 2pc to proc UB twice

[warm marlin]

i mean technically the value of bs for dm depends on how early you're shadowstriking in dance, if you only do your first shadowstrike with 2s left in dance, then the extra dm stack from backstab is only technically there for the last 2s of dance

casting storm as a builder delays that shadowstrike

[hollow spear]

I'd be curious how much of a gain the backstab is now

It should lose value

[lilac stag]

Storming on Mugzee looking correct.

[warm marlin]

in eleem's screenshot above for example, it danced at 1:33 and still hasn't shadowstriked by 1:39

[tribal blade]

why are sub optimizations always the most cursed thing on earth

[lilac stag]

because the spec isn’t actually complete

[tepid trellis]

damn u rocking the new tier already?

[lilac stag]

bet it’s not far off with current

[warm marlin]

when i checked it this tier it was not good

[hollow spear]

It is

This tier it's shite

It's just an optimisation for the new tier set

Doesn't make it less cursed

[lilac stag]

but again it was a joke since I was talking out of dance originally. so

the spec is just cursed.

[hazy breach]

Not a whole lot since most of the damage it does is unseen blade anyway

[vestal escarp]

Wth happened

[hollow spear]

Seems like ss is the second last global during dance

[warm marlin]

ye so in that specific dance, you're gaining value from the backstab dm stack for exactly 1 global

[hollow spear]

Yeah but you'd get that with ss too, no?

You lose ss damage and gain a dm stack

[hazy breach]

Yes, hence why the loss of using backstab instead is lower

You either do 400k + 1.6M or you do 1M+1.6M

[hollow spear]

Is the ub guaranteed there?

[hazy breach]

But also you often get shadow tech refunds on the coup anyway

Which is better

[hollow spear]

With sectec triggering shadowcraft, you'd have to have some really high sht stacks to get another one on coup

Or what do you mean with sht refunds?

[warm marlin]

tbh you dont actually need that many often

even without shaman buff coup is just so long

[hazy breach]

Well you dont always get the refund on sectech

[warm marlin]

just smacking dummies on ptr if i went into flag with 7-8 sht i often had enough to sectec coup coup

[hollow spear]

Ig the extra cdr from double coup allows you to hold longer, which gives you more sht stacks?

[warm marlin]

i only did a couple hours since new tier set but its kind of scuffed

[hollow spear]

On dummies rn I eventually get hard pressed to farm cdr

[warm marlin]

depending on when you proc stuff/if you're forced to overcap sometimes you get 2 dances between sometimes you don;t

[hollow spear]

I feel like using the extra cdr to hold more and juice our flags is better than going ham and trying to force double dances

[warm marlin]

that's what i ended up doing and overcapping a little bit and it seemed fine

but when you only do 1 dance between and end up going into flag having hit 2 dance charges 3-5 seconds ago

either you overcap or you send earlier and have to find a way to spend 50 extra combo points before flag (and then you int your flag window a bit by not having prepped coup/sht)

[hollow spear]

Maybe we can try to force the sim into either and see if there's a tangible dps delta

[swift tinsel]

Just a humble cdr farmer

It ain’t much and it ain’t honest work

[lilac stag]

you get a slice and dice.
You get a slice and dice.
YOU get a slice and dice.

I genuinely can’t wait to see the s3 apl compared to the rotation assistant / one button from bliz.

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/cinema-gif-5935759059195122434

It just flashes this on your screen when you press it

[lilac stag]

I figure the activation button would just spec swap you to assa and call it a day.

[runic trail]

Just when i think, 'I'm finally understanding sub' I look at this channel and realise that I know nothing

[lilac stag]

what you don’t know can’t hurt you

[runic trail]

But I've seen it now

[swift tinsel]

I have the one button thing bound just to see what it recommends and sometimes I just

[runic trail]

And it does hurt me

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-what-the-fuck-the-fuck-is-this-wth-gif-17571836

[lilac stag]

What I’m kinda curious with, and I haven’t tested it, in content like the delve solo boss if you’re playing outlaw is it recommending vanish so you reset the encounter?

[hollow spear]

Scath is a generational doomer fr

[swift tinsel]

As long as Brann is there it shouldn’t reset

But sometimes spaghetti

[lilac stag]

I know it was a possibility in first season if he was incap/dead

[swift tinsel]

Because otherwise that would be hilarious

[lilac stag]

I think that’s going to be next weeks shenanigans to test

after I get my raid buff done

[swift tinsel]

There’s no crazy burst needed with this late of gear for underpin king since his shield is lil so it should be pretty easy testing

[lilac stag]

I know some of the delve bosses reset

Even with our lil buddy

stealth vanish good times

[tender granite]

imagine blizzard designing encounters with rogue in mind

[swift tinsel]

Nah only dk gets that luxury

[lilac stag]

Blizz devs still trying to learn copilot

[tender granite]

you wouldn't know it with that one thread on PTR forums asking where all the grip fights are lol

[swift tinsel]

Copilot tries reading their code, promptly goes Skynet on the company

[lilac stag]

GMs have figured it out. Maybe they got advanced training.

[lilac stag]

Secret Phase last boss requires 4 DKs

[tender granite]

blizzard were the good guys all along

we just couldn't know it...

[lilac stag]

also 4 warlock gates required.

[swift tinsel]

Requires staggered grips so no gorefiends

And everyone clapped

[tender granite]

my faceless multi-million dollar corporation

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/blizzard-blizzard-entertainment-battlenet-social-networking-digital-distribution-gif-20608574

[lilac stag]

Maybe we need copilot to write the APL for sub. 🤔

[hollow spear]

It will make recommendations on what to do in the thirty seconds of pre flag holding

Maybe some ads for babbel or coding lessons

[swift tinsel]

I play solitaire while waiting for energy between dances

[hollow spear]

I'm doing some daytrading

[warm marlin]

prism at 10s and 3mins (with pot) seems to be very close (around 15k dps) to using with blades fwiw

[hollow spear]

Gambling my life savings

[warm marlin]

probably worth doing on amp fights

maybe not worth saving pot if you lose a cast

[hollow spear]

Ig only if we don't get to 2nd pot

Yeah

Probably something for super long fights or for farm with high ilvl

[warm marlin]

well if its around 5mins its fine

you would only really lose at 6mins since you would get 2 pots in flag

i dont think potting exactly at 5mins with a raw dance or anything would be that big a gain

[hollow spear]

Ah I just misread your previous statement

Thought you meant potting at 3 min with fully stacked prism

[warm marlin]

I did

if you pot right on pull, you would ideally press it again around the 6min mark with that flag

so any fight shorter than 6mins your second pot is gonna be a bit shit

[hollow spear]

Aren't most progression fights around 7-8?

[warm marlin]

ye so only worth if that 3min pot would be worth more than getting 2 pots in flag

could see it on salhadar. from what i understand he has a 100% dmg amp around 3 mins

if you're holding prism one pot there is maybe better than 1 pot on pull and 1 pot at 6mins

[hollow spear]

I agree

Last boss had its amp at 4?

[hazy breach]

There has not been any testing so we dont know when the amp is

[hollow spear]

There generally seem to be quite some amps, if tuning is somewhat decent it might be a good raid for us

[hazy breach]

Theyre not testing last bosses typically anyway

[hollow spear]

[hazy breach]

So we'll have to wait until later on to see the timings

[hollow spear]

True

[hazy breach]

Sub has to be quite awfully undertuned to not be good in a raid with this many amps

[warm marlin]

soo many amps

[hollow spear]

I love them amps

Outlaws cursing raid devs again

[fallow nimbus]

They cursed themself picking that spec

[proven plover]

or they should rather stop using AI to assist them in this.. like some of the things couldnt have been conceptualized by real humans

oh wait u are talking about APL I thought you meant the spec design

nvm me xd

[lilac stag]

It would probably help them at this point with sub.

maybe we would have a few more usually talent options

[frail skiff]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hollow spear]

Should just ask grok how it would improve sub

[frail skiff]

@hollow spearhey

i gave up on any other specs but sub 100%

[swift tinsel]

I think today I’m gonna give the deathstalker set some actual play and see just how annoying it is

Only done some cursory looking so far

[fleet wharf]

Is there a world where we end up playing deathstalker this tier?

[swift tinsel]

Who knows

[hazy breach]

With current tuning no

But who knows what theyll do

[fleet wharf]

[swift tinsel]

Idk why but I have a gut feeling the script gets flipped and ds ends up being the play

Truly cursed timeline

[fleet wharf]

whats the difference going from trickster to ds? needing to keep track of a really annoying buff, and losing flurry as aoe?

[swift tinsel]

Lose flurry, cheeks aoe gameplay

Flag windows tighter with second Sectech

[warm marlin]

i mean the whole burst window is cursed since less sectec cd and less cdr

[swift tinsel]

Bc less cdr

[vestal escarp]

Without silly tuning DS isnt going anywhere

[hazy breach]

When darkest night is up you have to eviscerate, which sometimes means you end up feeling bad since sectech gets delayed

[fleet wharf]

I wasnt playing in s1, but why is it tighter for CDR?

[hazy breach]

Trickster gives cdr

10% on sectech

[fleet wharf]

aha

[hazy breach]

And coup is 5 extra cp

[fleet wharf]

better hope trickster comes out on top lmao

[hazy breach]

So on ST your sectechs ends up delayed and you do more solo symbols (aka without dance)

And on aoe its cursed, since darkest night sucks ass in aoe

[warm marlin]

the vanish opener looks pretty strong with predisorienting btw eleem

[hazy breach]

You ideally strike other targets when youre at 1 stack of the mark

So you dont proc DN

[warm marlin]

you can just proc coup before even pressing blades (you can without the vanish opener but less often obviously)

[swift tinsel]

If they keep lingering affecting trinkets then prism gets even better too

[frail skiff]

@swift tinsel im rebuilding my keybinds

[fleet wharf]

sounds like uber jank for optimizing damage?

[frail skiff]

so i can start playing without single button sht

[hazy breach]

And if you accidently proc DN

Its best to cancelaura it

Since the mark doesnt work properly when DN is up

[swift tinsel]

Good luck soldier 🫡

[fleet wharf]

ohh that explains why it doesn't go up again when I'm playing assa

[hazy breach]

Well it doesnt go from 3 > 2 when darkest night is up

[fleet wharf]

what's the name exactly? /cancelaura darkest night?

[hazy breach]

Assa doesnt really reapply their mark often

[hollow spear]

Is it just the s1 version or something new?

[warm marlin]

i think just the s1 one

[swift tinsel]

Would you prism with blades or into second Sectech then?

If you’re stacking for 3min

Or just play it like a 1.5 at that point bc you’ll have a stack or two

For opener

[hazy breach]

Idk seems to be the same in my sims

[warm marlin]

for the vanish thing?

or prism

[steel jolt]

sub has so many buttons wtf

[lilac stag]

not really

[warm marlin]

the idea was mostly that unseen blades just hit so much harder you don't want to waste the one extra you get from predisorienting like we do from current opener

[hazy breach]

Ok nvm when i forced the evis instead of it doing silly things it was a bit better ye

[warm marlin]

you may also want to throw in a black powder just in case

if you do proc coup probably don't want to send it there before turning blades on

[hazy breach]

Well its the first finisher for snd

So you wouldnt have coup

[warm marlin]

oh i thought the old opener had you rupture first

like so

[hazy breach]

Nah, also bp doesnt give snd

[warm marlin]

ye there was just because coup procced

[hazy breach]

But ye only seems worth it with disorienting strikes prepped

[warm marlin]

you dont get slice but you do get the extra ub in that case

jk i cooked it, they're essentially the same

i still need to clean a lot of stuff up

[hollow spear]

With essentially the same you mean vanish opener vs "normal" opener?

[warm marlin]

rupture first vs. evis first

evis therefore just better imo because you always get snd (lower variance)

[hollow spear]

Probably cleaner if you don't always get disorienting

Can just play that one opener in both cases

[warm marlin]

i dont think its worth if you dont have predisorient

the main gain is from consuming all 3 unseen blades before your first sectec that predisorient gives you

[hollow spear]

That potential BP play tho

[warm marlin]

💀

[tender granite]

DS is so restrictive. I don't even think assassination enjoys playing it, they just play the lesser of two evils because Fatebound is even worse somehow. Can't target swap easily, can't open the way you want to, can't easily reapply mark, it's a mess.

[hazy breach]

Neither of those are really problems for sub

[tender granite]

Maybe I just need more exposure to DS sub

[chrome palm]

No I think you need less

[hazy breach]

Well as assa you get darkest night and you hit it on a spatter target and do big aoe right

As sub you get darkest night and you cancelaura it and hit BP instead to do big aoe

Because darkest night only buffs eviscerate, which does not do any aoe

[tender granite]

On an optimization level I think that's really cool, but as far as the intent of the spec goes I can't believe blizzard wants you to cancelaura, you know what I mean

[hazy breach]

Is it really cool that you ignore the entire point of the tree?

[chrome palm]

It’s definitely not what blizzard wants you to do they just haven’t gotten to reworking it

[tender granite]

I think it's cool in the sense rogue players are determined enough to do well regardless of restrictive hero talent design

but it really does highlight how poorly thought out the rogue hero trees are

[lilac stag]

It’s not cool. It’s shit design.

rogues have been figuring out degen things since IRC was our main communication hub.

[tender granite]

I think we're saying the same thing, it's just that I haven't been here in this community long enough to feel comfortable being so direct about it lol

[lilac stag]

Spec design and talent are garbage

[chrome palm]

Midnight rework 🙏

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/rocket-copium-cope-meme-token-gif-582361001471231527

[chrome palm]

The last titan rework 🙏

[lilac stag]

You can’t say it’s cool then say we’re stating the same thing. It’s blatantly horrific design by the devs not fully flushing out not only the base spec but any and all of the rogue hero talents.

[sullen hare]

fuck it, tww rework

[chrome palm]

DS Sub is gonna be INSANE in 13.2 guys

[pliant topaz]

hes saying that its cool that rogues have managerd to find such a unique niche weird thing to improve on the aoe. not that the design is cool

[lilac stag]

Maybe they just delete rogue by then

[pliant topaz]

atleast thats how im taking it

[tender granite]

to be clear I wasn't praising the design of DS, I was praising the ingenuity of the rogue playerbase

Armin is correct

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-love-monkey-cute-monkey-hug-hug-monkey-gif-8658152799845650442

[lilac stag]

it’s not cool that we have to even look at shit like this. yay for hard work trying to figure out how moronic the devs are

[pliant topaz]

hard work?

hmm let me see if i can find it brb

[lilac stag]

someone is using thier free time to figure out the degen shit. Not being paid.

[pliant topaz]

so it says alpha release was spring 2024 for tww

deathstalker was the last thing released so im guessin maybe may?

the quote i could find from myself in the archive tww-sub channel is from june 9

i cant find earlier

but i remember when we saw the tree on wowhead, without even testing it or anything

we could tell that they are beyond stupid and that capstone is not proccable for sub

thats not hard work

thats litearlly 0 work

[lilac stag]

I think they’re waiting to finish the 10.1 rework, then tackle the hero talents.

[pliant topaz]

just reading

[lilac stag]

I’m talking the work out into the apl

[lilac stag]

And figuring out the degen shit in general .

[pliant topaz]

insane this took these giga geniuses 1.5 months to fix

ah another banger

i forgot about max thinking rogues are just bitchign to bitch

then read the fucking tripple feint on pull technique

and was like no shot devs are this bad

xdddd

for a second bro forgot hes being paid to not let out how bad these things are

his dumbass heard "funnel" and got a boner

[lilac stag]

I mean realz hangs out in my (max) stream while we talk specs and JPC says rogue is perfect. Clearly discord is delulu

[pliant topaz]

ythinking blizz would let anything meaningful to be given to rogue xddd

w/e

[lilac stag]

at least it’s fun

[swift tinsel]

11.2.5 we're gonna get hit with the most banger fixes including fully fleshed out aoe gameplay, trickster and deathstalker updates, spec tree lookin immaculate

trust

certainly not hopium of the highest order

[lilac stag]

where is the friction going to be to power said hopium?

[swift tinsel]

from all the sin and outlaw players flocking to it

and bitching that their trees aren't as good

[lilac stag]

they should just rename one of the capstone friction

[swift tinsel]

it randomly turns off one of your spec interactions

sht no longer refunds

sf doesn't proc with fw up

[lilac stag]

15% rng for Shadow Dmg to work

[swift tinsel]

jk sf would be shot into space

[pliant topaz]

theyre gonna touch up a little on hero talents, do another half ass job, change 3 talents and thats your 12.0

have fun

[swift tinsel]

ye most likely

or they add eb stacks but it consumes a random amount bc fuck you

[lilac stag]

3, that’s a very generous outlook

[swift tinsel]

and doesn't give any extra cdr beyond the cp you spend

[lilac stag]

there’s a better chance of them fixing something in the rogue general tree before 3 sub talents get addressed properly

[swift tinsel]

nah it'll only be fatebound fixes

[lilac stag]

Which would be cold blood

[swift tinsel]

but not the shit the bed aoe one

[pliant topaz]

im a bit extra cranky i think today lmfao. after MSI i went to an afterparty and was drinking till 4 am, then woke up today and went to gym at 8 am hungover and tired as fuck. a bit giga cranky. also @wind canopy couldnt make it with us to MSI so a bit sadge there too

[swift tinsel]

so they're still dumpstered as soon as a second target appears

[pliant topaz]

it shall pass ig

[swift tinsel]

oof, I cannot workout hungover or I become a puke fountain

[pliant topaz]

yeh its not fun! but had to do it

[swift tinsel]

I respect the grind

what day was it in your split?

[pliant topaz]

legs 💀

[swift tinsel]

yikes

[pliant topaz]

on my 2nd set of squats I knew i was fucked

[swift tinsel]

that was mine today too and I couldn't imagine

[pliant topaz]

its fine, it was worth it! yesterday was a banger

i think there was like 4-5k people at the stadium

there was so much passion for the competition

[swift tinsel]

watching league live has gotta be so much fun

[pliant topaz]

dude i lost my voice and my hearing

[swift tinsel]

lmao I bet!

[pliant topaz]

during the blg vs t1 series, everytime faker would do something or keria would get a catch the crowd would go soooooo insane i could legit not hear anything

also i got a pick with cptn floewrs, azeal, and laure

[swift tinsel]

siiiiiiiick

[pliant topaz]

we're thinking with friends to make a yearly tradition to fly out to worlds every year

its such a fun event

[tender granite]

i watched the stream and that series was amazing, can't imagine what it was like in person

[pliant topaz]

this was just MSI imaigne world finals

[swift tinsel]

also Laure

dude worlds has to be the most insane event on the planet

[pliant topaz]

it was amazing, when crowd was chanting T1 i could feel the ground shaking

also the couple next to us were BLG fans who flew in from china

and the guy was crying

o7 to that guy

[tender granite]

oh man, poor guy

that's passion for sure lol

[pliant topaz]

cant wait to do the world thingy every year tbh

so much adrenaline ahha

[haughty mural]

noice

can imgagine the crowd going crazy after the final game and score

[swift tinsel]

Playing the ds set has me convinced they tried to find a way to make our cooldown window feel just objectively worse in every way

The parts that feel bad about aoe creep into st gameplay

Might be exacerbated bc I’m playing without skyfury but mechanically its cheeks

[lilac stag]

bad hero talents are bad. News at 11.

[swift tinsel]

and made worse by tier set

[hollow spear]

Who wins MSI?

[plush roost]

Generation gaming

Unless actually insane AL series

[bleak night]

cfo clears

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wild hornet]

gg gally finally dead

the pull that my log isnt purple or orange is the kill always

[pliant topaz]

idk man im stonks on T1 Geng and AL

like shanks was actually easily matching chovy

AL fixes a few things and i could easily see them win

T1 also gets dorans shit together and i could easily see them win

they already have the better botlane

faker can def match

and oner can also match imo

[plush roost]

Idk Chovy has had fakers number for years

Like last worlds was Peyz running it down

Im actually hoping its AL cause I've been on the Shanks train for years but idk

A bit worried about Flandre into kiin

[pliant topaz]

idk about that one lol. this LCK season? sure faker was gapped in regular season but last world faker was way more useful than chovy was the entire tournament

the worlds before that? same

flandre looked fine into kiin the issue wasnt top imo

[haughty mural]

faker was insane on worlds last year

he for sure carried games with sylas and galio

[plush roost]

Faker did indeed go crazy mode last year but tbf if you look at the context of the tournament he had a horror show game 1-2-3 and clutched game 4 and had knight throw into them in game 5 by flash charming air in the finals.

And may we all remember Peyz walking into melee range skarner ult and throwing the entire game

With cleanse

So he can't even blame being slowed walking into it

[proper latch]

Finally got CE

And green parse

[runic trail]

Congrats!

[lilac stag]

Next time go for the grey parse. More rewarding CE.

[proper latch]

Thinking about padding on adds and getting good log got me killed. Kinda ironic

[pliant topaz]

he also solo carried game 4 and game 5

whereas chovy may have been the most useless player of the entire worlds

bro had 0 games where he was erven visible

[bleak night]

doesn't matter which one of them wins, they'll lose to cfo anyway

[pliant topaz]

honq my goat

[nocturne hollow]

Anyone know any good sub rouge coaching?

[steel zinc]

ask away in this channel most people here are very welcoming if you want to know sub specific questions

most stuff you can read in the wowhead guide

[nocturne hollow]

Just how gear/stat dependent is sub rouge? im geared for outlaw but have some biss sub stuff, like trinkes and daggers

[nocturne hollow]

Thank you

[hazy breach]

As long as you dont stack haste youre fine

[steel zinc]

You don't like haste

Rest is w/e really

Like yes you want mastery and versa but it won't make or break you playing well

[nocturne hollow]

i got around 15k haste, is that really troll?

10k mastery

[chrome palm]

So your 15k is doing basically nothing as sub

[nocturne hollow]

ah ok

[chrome palm]

All it does really is shadow technique procs and a little more energy outside of CDs

You can post your logs after doing !log here and someone might look at them

[nocturne hollow]

thank you

so i need to start getting rid of haste and into vers/mastery

all my craft gear is haste vers

[chrome palm]

Other main difference besides weapons is that House of Cards is required

[nocturne hollow]

yeah i got house of cards

So just recraft my gear to mastery/vers and i should start seeing better overall?

[chrome palm]

Based on what you’ve said, yes

[nocturne hollow]

Thank you

[chrome palm]

Best bet is to sim your gear though

[nocturne hollow]

How would simming my gear help with that? i dont quite understand sims

[chrome palm]

So basically the main value in simming is comparing between two sims

So you can select a recrafted version of your existing equipment using vers/mast instead of vers/haste and the sim will generate all possible combinations of what the equipment could be

[nocturne hollow]

ohhh ok thats cool

[chrome palm]

It’s a very sure way to gear your character

If all you think about is “I need vers and mast” you’ll reach a point where you’d be better off with one or two pieces with crit on it, simulating your character will tell you where that point is

[short radish]

gzgzgz though

time to sit back and enjoy RWL

[teal night]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

rogue notes on reset
rogue notes on reset
rogue notes on reset
rogue notes on reset

[bleak night]

one button rotation now casts shuriken toss/poison knife at range

[chrome palm]

killing spree duration reduced/10

at this point id be happy if they just fixed cold blood for assa fb

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-awkward-gif-17846653676727767557

[chrome palm]

or put cold blood cdr on tier set idk

[lilac stag]

Too iconic of a pvp spell

[tribal blade]

i'm still kinda annoyed they decided to give sin 1.5 min cd

[lilac stag]

Can’t change it

[chrome palm]

well

you have to at least appreicate that

FB aoe is still poor

and usually its not just one add that needs to die

so sub still is the better 1:30 if tuning is roughly equal

and sub is still more loaded into its cds

i dont think its that bad to give to sin considering there are a lot of sin players that maybe dont want to play sub but feel like they are being forced to by fight design

so fb is like maybe meeting them half-way

like at the beginning of this tier you saw a lot of sin-only players have some trouble with sub because they thought assa was doa

[lilac stag]

the problem is they have literally given assa everything that made outlaw/sub a unique spec

They need shit removed. Not given more.

DS assa isn’t a bleed / dot spec. It’s an envenom simulator in raid.

[tepid trellis]

all they need to do is make it go on CD when you press it and not when you consume it

[lilac stag]

and if you’re playing content that needs to optimize for a fight (CE Mythic) you should be able to play the class and not just a single spec.

[chrome palm]

agree with you here

maybe thats because of amp poison

amp poison and both hero talents being envenom buffers

[lilac stag]

dots are just irrelevant in ST and barely relevant for adds.

[tepid trellis]

dots are just the engine

[lilac stag]

kinda happens when you can just splatter everything

[tepid trellis]

envenom is what moves u

the wheels

[chrome palm]

it feels weird

[lilac stag]

blindside is the turbo boost.

[chrome palm]

i kinda like the older design of spacing out envenoms

[pliant topaz]

many did

[chrome palm]

i forget the yellow buff you got from finishers on assa

when you played around that uptime

[pliant topaz]

people liked sin for its bleed / slow pace style

not the xd envenom go brrrr

[tepid trellis]

one day when i ask people whats the most powerful sub rogue talent

people will get it right

ONE DAY

[lilac stag]

The respec talent?

[pliant topaz]

ive been saying shadow focus is giga broken for motnhs now. pls nerf to 1% man

[tepid trellis]

not atm no, all 3 specs kinda suck ass

[lilac stag]

11.2 reroll talent.

I’m curious if they’ll address any of the FB stuff for assa. I’m assuming our end gets more of what we got this tier.

[tepid trellis]

considering its assa then yeah they will fix it

[lilac stag]

TFD for me. It’s just a little cringe which makes it perfect for sub talents.

[pliant topaz]

comparing tfd to sf is actually insulting

[lilac stag]

go back to league.

[pliant topaz]

currently watching yamamotos new msi prediction video

[lilac stag]

can play a game. What spec talents on sub are actually good and something you’d say you can’t live without

[pliant topaz]

yepge

[tepid trellis]

relentless strikes

[lilac stag]

5% of them?

[pliant topaz]

xdxdddddxdxdd

[tepid trellis]

i win

[pliant topaz]

imagine youre new to the spec

dont know much

talent

stuff randomly

huh whats this relentless strikes in the middle of nowhere

locked behind a bunch of shit

eh ill pass

o7

[lilac stag]

[pliant topaz]

holy yamamoto putting shanks and honq over chovy and faker

and its actually true

what a banger

[bleak night]

honq the goat

[lilac stag]

@tepid trellis did you stay assa for your reclears or swap over to sub?

[tepid trellis]

ive been sub since buffs

[lilac stag]

I actually have to look at fights again for our first reclear.

[tepid trellis]

im not playing rogue this reset tho

[lilac stag]

Enhance?

[tepid trellis]

yup

need it rdy for next tier

[lilac stag]

splits or?

[tepid trellis]

yep

[lilac stag]

Requirements the same as what colour had or more?

[tepid trellis]

more

colour didn't do splits

[lilac stag]

couldn’t remember

[tepid trellis]

he is basically rdy tho

just need a bit more juice

[lilac stag]

basically a week1 toon and done

[tribal blade]

good shit

helps when you do a 19 psf with a prot pal who ends up doing 89 kicks

[round latch]

😲

[chrome palm]

Now you can do all the sub keys you want at 19

[tribal blade]

oh shit true

but i think i'd rather sit in lfg and not get invited to the extremely few 20s that are ever up 🙂

[chrome palm]

I just hit 19 resil today as well

Gonna terrorize people as outlaw

[tribal blade]

twins!

twinning

[chrome palm]

👬

We up

Need to catch up to a certain sub otp

[tribal blade]

some people i used to run with who never invite me anymore have a 20 dfc queued

not even gonna bother trying to sign up for it

[chrome palm]

They gonna brick that shit fr

[tribal blade]

haha who knows

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Not until the prophet has it timed

[tribal blade]

so we hit the point at which most people are stuck at

so it's time to buckle down and be ready for pain and suffering lol

[chrome palm]

I have 19 dfc timed with 5 min with my group

20 should be easy

[tribal blade]

nice!

[chrome palm]

Ml too ig

The other keys though

[tribal blade]

yeah i ran a dfc with a group and we timed it with a lot of time left

[chrome palm]

Spooky at 20

Dfc so free

I’m honestly not that intimidated by rookery but that’s just subtlety hubris

Ik itll rock my shit

[tribal blade]

yeah the 19 rook i did i carried the fuck out of the key

[chrome palm]

Very fun for sub

[tribal blade]

i do the first half as sin

last half as sub

it's good

[chrome palm]

Wonder if that swap after 2nd boss is worth

Ah

I just do the whole thing as sub but change build

Why sin for first half?

[tribal blade]

when i timed it i still topped overall even when afk for 1 pull

[chrome palm]

Nice

[tribal blade]

it just does way more aoe

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Hm

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plus i run bleed garotte for first half

[chrome palm]

WHAT

[tribal blade]

it makes kicks way easier

[chrome palm]

???

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

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What da

[tribal blade]

bleed gets a bad rap

[chrome palm]

Like full bleed build?

[tribal blade]

it's not as troll as people think it is

yeah full bleed with iron wire

[chrome palm]

Ain’t no way

I do think tho iw is bis for bleed build

Since mobs get grouped so well

What is your boss Dam like

[tribal blade]

it's not bad because you're chaining half the 1st room on the 1st boss

[chrome palm]

I mean like 2nd boss must be miserable then no?

[tribal blade]

it's ok

[chrome palm]

What are you doing on that boss

[tribal blade]

like you're not doing amazing boss dam, but it's not too shabby

honestly not sure, never looked

[chrome palm]

Outside of the 100mil you’re doing to the civilians

[tribal blade]

haha yeah

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Bleed is crazy work in rookery

Idk I just stay sub but

I can see it

[tribal blade]

i saw shindigg do it that way

[chrome palm]

Oh interesting

What comp though

[tribal blade]

at least he did it that way earlier in the season

can't remmber

[chrome palm]

I run with a mostly meta comp so as long as they’re on top of their stops it’s smooth first half

[tribal blade]

hrm this is not right

[chrome palm]

Yeah it’s wrong

[tribal blade]

must be showing current talents

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It’s not from logs it’s from bliz api

[tribal blade]

ah ok

but the group i did it with i timed psf with an hour ago

[chrome palm]

Wonder how bleed does there

[tribal blade]

and the tank asked "hey could you run that iron wire build again, made the rookery so free"

but we got a boomy for the psf so i just went back to hybrid haha

[chrome palm]

Ahh

Do you run forced induction

[tribal blade]

it does a metric fuckton of trash damage

[tribal blade]

with bleed nah

[chrome palm]

As hybrid I mean

[tribal blade]

oh yeah

the full prio/st build yeah

[chrome palm]

I think bleed with dh though is insanely overkill

And Boomie ofc

Losing out on magic dam too

And you can also drop haste for more vers

And lose less dam

I run like no haste in that build but

[tribal blade]

in bleed you run no haste?

i tried running lower haste in bleed but it feels SO bad in st

[chrome palm]

No in fi

[tribal blade]

AHH yeah

i tried my best to drop as much haste as possible

and i have ~21% vers fully buffed in hybrid

[chrome palm]

Nice

It is very fun to do keys as outlaw because they are build like tanks

[tribal blade]

yeah outlaw defensiveness so op 😦

[chrome palm]

Lived two casts at the same time from the guys after 1st boss in ml 19 without evasion or cloak

[tribal blade]

lol nice

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It’s silly

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i think they need to do something about outlaw's survivability

it's too much

[chrome palm]

It’s a lot when you consider they won’t be having KS issues anymore

[tribal blade]

yeah basically invincible

barring standing in stuff

[chrome palm]

But it’s mostly how they use vanish

IMO

[short radish]

how is outlaw more tanky than sub?

[chrome palm]

Cdr evasion

More vers

[short radish]

ah yeah

[chrome palm]

Vanish healing

[tribal blade]

you reset evasion and feint with restless

[chrome palm]

Vanish removing effects

[short radish]

bring on deathstalker outlaw

[tribal blade]

vanish every what, 20 secs?

20-30 or something

[chrome palm]

Maybe less yeah

What is soothing darkness 30%?

[tribal blade]

yeah 30 i think

yeah 30

which is a fuckton

[chrome palm]

Yeah cdr on that and evasion

[tribal blade]

just perma uptime on feint

evasion up very often

healing for a lot

vanishing everything off