subtlety

[young roost]

Any thoughts on the other sets for a primarily m+ player?

[warm marlin]

[vale pine]

The set is stronger on single target than in AoE, does not mean the spec is bad in mythic+

just saying

[young roost]

Ahh yeah sorry should have been clearer I meant the outlaw and assa sets

[vale pine]

Best is to ask in the outlaw/assassination channel

but if you want to know what to play in the next season

you are out of luck

[young roost]

Yeah no one responded...was just curious..thank you

[vale pine]

if you did not start the game this season

you probably noticed

how every ptr cycle gets multiple balance passes

and usually balance tuning first or 2nd week of a raid

asking "what is good in m+ in the next season" is kind of irrelevant

[young roost]

Yeah man thanks...was just asking my free time goes in waves...didn't see much in the pins in terms of initial thoughts..was just trying to catch up.

[vale pine]

so i wonder, do you plan to push high keys on ptr?

[alpine wraith]

we might get more wins out of changing some plays

[short radish]

ptr push keys is where the content is

[young roost]

I'm not asking what is good I'm just asking how people are feeling about how the sets play that is all

[alpine wraith]

it is quite interesting

although escalating blade is annoying

and resets of course are random

[vale pine]

The tier set is numerical good

[alpine wraith]

and you cant know when they happen

[short radish]

4pc is good but it makes the existing issues with trickster much more apparent
like overcapping escalating blade

[vale pine]

it has little gameplay impact

we might end up with marginal changes to the secret sequencing

so the initial thoughts tl;dr:
Trickster: Strong set, good burst (unseen blade reset could lead to some min/max possibility)
Deathstalker set: Still good, but not as strong as trickster, but deathstalker also plays worse and the set has 0 gameplay impact

[short radish]

also fuck deathstalker sub

[young roost]

Sweet thanks guys

[vale pine]

i mean its also weird numerical

why is the 2p 50% on assassiantion but only 30% on sub?

My assumption is, its because we can play dark brew

but we probably won't because we want inev for higher symbols uptime

inev + 4p feels weird with pandemic in the 90 sec cooldown window when you dance back to back

so there is that too

[plush roost]

Tying the tier set to symbols was such a miss

[vale pine]

(it also does not pandemic correctly atm)

[young roost]

I kinda felt the same way when I read it...seemed a bit odd

[plush roost]

Its just not how sub plays currently you lose so much value

[vale pine]

ye, could just make it dance

[plush roost]

Dance makes so much more sense

+2 seconds dance now we're cooking

[vale pine]

exactly

you can tune the dance duration + and the % bonus

but we will see

currently its just

"you already have 60% symbols uptime"

[runic trail]

I'm still figuring that boss out, either I send on pull and have to weave around the dodge or I send post slam and cooldowns come up right as intermission kicks in

[vale pine]

"lets make it 70%+

[plush roost]

Designed for assa and sub was afterthought

[vale pine]

i mean its just numerical strong on assa

being 50% vs. 30

assassination ideally wants to have the fatebound set competitive

so they can switch between 90 and 120 sec cooldowns

[plush roost]

I mean 2 seconds on shiv and progressing your marks inside shiv makes sense and allows for more DN shivs

[vale pine]

oh yes

[plush roost]

It makes sense as a tierset for assa is what i mean

As sub it really doesn't

[vale pine]

i mean it might be that they designed it for assa first

and just wait and see how good it is for sub

[plush roost]

Ye and sub was the afterthought haha

[vale pine]

a lot of design decisions feel like that

from recent changes

[plush roost]

I mean it could be good for sub, of they make the marks do enough damage to justify it but man is it weird

[vale pine]

it still does not fix one of the baseline problems

of just not having enough cdr on dance

trickster is just designed better

for subtlety

[plush roost]

Yea its why i think darkest night should reduce dance cd by x amount

Would solve all issues

[vale pine]

they could just buff the cdr

and also lower storm energy cost

would make the rotation not feel bad in aoe/cleave

[plush roost]

Return to df season 2 8)

[vale pine]

to a degree yes

but just a litte more cdr would go a long way

[plush roost]

Yeah idk, just wish ds sub was more viable cause i do kinda like a lot of the minor nodes on the tree

Like singular focus and momentum

The shadow step cdr as well

[runic trail]

Could change the tier set to make symbols provide like -5s off of shadow dance cooldown use instead maybe?

[plush roost]

You really feel the diff between sub and assa on OaB for example

[vale pine]

I don't like DS sub

it locks you to the target

adds additional constraints to e.g. dots

[cloud rover]

And its another layer you have to think about

For bosses like Silken Court, Queen, Cauldron

[vale pine]

the damage profile is "more baseline damage" instead of focusing on giving damage during cooldowns

[cloud rover]

Probably not as bad on Sub, but for Sin it was annoying

[vale pine]

dance allows you to switch targtes a bit more comfortable

[alpine wraith]

and you forget that it also needs more uptime

[vale pine]

every annoying thing in wow is a "layer of thinking" if you want to look at it this way

[alpine wraith]

hunt them down is like 10%

[vale pine]

e.g. the RS bug

could also say "it adds nouances to your multi target rotation"

when in reality it was just annoying asf

[runic trail]

Cauldron is at least fairly reasonable, court could fuck right off though

[cloud rover]

I guess yeah, but as sin it was really annoying especially when you used Vanish for DPS

Making sure, you spend all Deathstalker Marks on Queen before intermission

Becuase otherwise, you didnt have your Hero Talent in P2

[runic trail]

I had several pulls where I ended up sending ruptures into her while she was immune

[cloud rover]

Ye

[runic trail]

Though I eventually ended up just straight up not vanishing during my second cooldown set

Just for consistency

[vale pine]

Subtlety has less problems with spreading mark

^^

[runic trail]

How's it applied on sub? Still through ambush?

[vale pine]

strike

[runic trail]

Yeah, much easier then!

Shame the hero talent has all of the other jank

[vale pine]

its just, deasthstalker is in general worse for sub than assassiantion in design

[cloud rover]

I mean its just the Natur of Hero Talents

They just didnt make good ones on Rogue

that synergize well

[vale pine]

i still think

[cloud rover]

with both Specs

Except maybe Trickster

[vale pine]

it would have been better if they made 1 hero talent per spec

each spec has one which they played primarely

assassination - deathstalker

subtlety - trickster

outlaw - fatebound

each of these talents could have had more focused talents if not shared

shared tier sets, shared talent trees

[cloud rover]

Yeah

[vale pine]

like the enirety of TWW philosophy

of making stuff for multiple things instead of more tailored stuff

[cloud rover]

Yeah the Tiersets of Undermine

[vale pine]

it just makes the design space smaller

because specs are by design not similar

even if assassiantion is now a lot closer to subtlety in design than it was historically

you just can't do as much if it needs to work for multiple specs

[north schooner]

there is no appeal to that compared to what hero talents were touted to be. They really underestimated how much effort hero talent trees would take not just to make the balanced for both specs, but also to make them interesting to begin with

it requires effort they didn't spend

and for rogue's trees that is extra the case

[vale pine]

you can pmuch input a lot of things instead of "hero talents" and it would still make the statement sound ^^

[merry agate]

The whole picking killing Spree on oulaw for trickster debacle

[haughty mural]

But it made sense

Unforch

[north schooner]

hero trees requiring specific talents is one of my least favourite aspects of them

[vale pine]

tbh i am only surprised

how long it took for KS to get fixed

[merry agate]

Trueee

[vale pine]

it was like "this will chage during beta"

and its now

"well last season of the xpac, maybe we should fix it now before the next milestone"

[north schooner]

nothing wrong with having an ability which is literally unusable on some fights tie it to a hero tree

[runic trail]

It's totally usable if you don't care about the safety of your raid team

[north schooner]

"sorry guys, realz made me do it"

[runic trail]

All I'm saying is, if they didn't want to get knocked into the shadow realm, they shouldn't have gotten assigned to a different colour than me

[vale pine]

there is a certain title for people who did not use KS pre rework:
||Skill issue||.

(its a joke)

[north schooner]

it's true, wowhead comments said so

and then of course you have people asking for the "iconic" (I'm thinking of another word ending in -onic tbh) teleport aspect of it to be back. That's some stockholm syndrome right there

[vale pine]

make it a glyph

problem solved

[north schooner]

there probably hasn't been a single expansion where the teleport aspect wasn't causing issues

[vale pine]

hey

[haughty mural]

People live in the past with rose tainted goggles

[vale pine]

i mean wow is a nostalgia game, it is outdated in most areas and people sitll play it

classic is worse

streamers still play hardcore classic every time it releasses

[runic trail]

Classic levelling is a vibe

[keen dome]

It's so funny

[runic trail]

I just hit 60 and roll a new character, it's so chill

[haughty mural]

Not for me 😦

[vale pine]

i mean, i am weird in a way

[runic trail]

Probably heavily nostalgia based but original azeroth is legit my comfy place.

It feels like home

[keen dome]

My classic experience was sitting in Stormwind trying to get an invite to deadmines as a rogue, and after 30 minutes I realized I could just sit in Dornogal and not get invited to M+ instead.

[merry agate]

Just hope we get some changes and new stuff maybe 🤔

Reading thru development notes and seeing rogue section is depressing

But hey thats just rog experience

[cloud rover]

Oldge

[keen dome]

They should start putting emojis in the rogue section

[vale pine]

Think its diffrent for everyone

[haughty mural]

I can’t stand autoattacking mobs for a minute before I can press smth again only for my cps to be gone after it died

[runic trail]

I just like levelling okay it's nice

[merry agate]

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♂️

[runic trail]

[haughty mural]

But that’s just me

[cloud rover]

I get that

[vale pine]

e.g. if i watch a movie, even if it was great. I have no joy watching it again for a long time.
Same goes with games and other media like books

[cloud rover]

I liked levling in Wotlk, Cata Classic too

[vale pine]

classic for me just has no nostalgia even tho i played wotlk

[runic trail]

Yeah I think I've rewatched certain series like 20+ times now, I crave a certain degree of familiarity

[vale pine]

so while its chill and relaxing for others, its just tiresome and grindy for me

[cloud rover]

I literally replayed Cyberpunk after my first Playthrough ended

[haughty mural]

It’s pretty much the same for me fuu

I also played before wotlk

But it has not much really much nostalgia for me

[haughty mural]

And also this

[keen dome]

high5. I do this when I just wanna.. be comfy. It's def a cmofy thing.

[north schooner]

you forgot 👍

[vale pine]

Think Cyberpunk is now quite good after patches?

[runic trail]

We don't complete the ritual lest we summon him

[cloud rover]

Yes my first playthrough was also just a year ago, when Pantom iberty got out

Which is probably the best Version of the Game

[vale pine]

only exception for me is music probably, even tho i need a lot of music on a playlist to not get tired of certain songs

[cloud rover]

and a really good DLC

But after i was done with it

I felt such a great void in me

i decided to just start again

[runic trail]

Familiarity is comfy to me, (it's the autism speaking 100% but still)

[cloud rover]

[north schooner]

the guy has 22k posts on the official forums, he has grown roots there. We are safe

[runic trail]

Music as well, sometimes it's just... One song on repeat for a while

[vale pine]

Think thats nothing bad, it makes everyone unique ^^

[keen dome]

Hell eah

[steel zinc]

Yes

Bis sp game if you like the setting

[cloud rover]

Real

and true

[sacred yarrow]

thank you for the read, fuu!

While there is an improvement over last season with the new tier set design, I would like to return to the old design philosophy of more unique effects for each specs. Shared bonuses seem to limit the design space and make many of the bonuses feel the same.
This hurts once again, streamlining rogue specs is ruining the fantasy :(

[short radish]

isnt that just deathstalker in general

[fervent elm]

hero talents in general are like "they made this for this spec and then decided to give each spec an extra hero talent option"

i mean cmon

Deathstalker with assa
trickster with sub
fatebound with outlaw

Riders with Unholy
San'layn with Blood
Reaper with Frost

and so on

[tight bloom]

Trickster is not really sub oriented when you read the description of the spec

[short radish]

honestly could have given sub fatebound

[runic trail]

Don't curse us with this

[short radish]

i'd rather sub fatebound than sub deathstalker

[haughty mural]

[brisk onyx]

How about DS outlaw

[short radish]

i dont play outlaw so sure they can have the shitfest that is deathstalker

i mean with ghostly strike anyway

and bte

it make ssense that outlaw doesnt want to swap targets

????????????

wait

does DS outlaw acutally make sense

or is my brain too cooked right now from work

[brisk onyx]

[runic trail]

One day they'll just put the mark on the rogue, problem solved

[short radish]

we're going full circle wiht combo points

deathstalker feels like "what if we brought back marked for death but made it worse"

[north schooner]

[haughty mural]

Don’t let hacha hear this

Im also glad specs getting new animations (: heard DK lacked those

[north schooner]

what's an animation? here's a smidge of purple poof

[vale pine]

being tricky is kinda the rogue vibe tho ^^

[tight bloom]

Ye sure, but to me, fatebound (by essence) and trickster (with the description itself of the spec) are outlaw oriented

leaving sub with "deathslaker" but sharing it with assa (as fatebound for assa is a nonsense both spec/lore wise)

[warm marlin]

Bte is a self buff since a while

[north schooner]

dunno about fatebound being outlaw oriented

[tight bloom]

Well, it's somehow related to "fate"

[north schooner]

it seems like some cult thing with "magical" aspects given the cosmic damage

[last ether]

Honestly I feel like Assa itself is kinda all over the place... Deathstalker makes sense for someone specialized in assassinstion but assa itself feels like "haha daggers go everywhere poison bleed everyone brr"

[tight bloom]

dont tell me roll the bones are not under "fate"

[last ether]

But I'm also a bit of an assa hater

[north schooner]

the rng nature of the spec does fit outlaw yes but that's where I feel it stops

[last ether]

Pirates like flipping coins

[north schooner]

shooting beams of cosmic damage feels weird

trickster on the other hand feels a lot closer to outlaw because they both feature athleticism and dirtiness

[runic trail]

Yeah that makes sense. Outlaw to me is the dirty fighter archetype

[vestal escarp]

OL would hate deathstalker

Simply they couldn't play DN

[mighty citrus]

i see a lot of people play first dance in raid. is there something around it or are the few secs more danceuptime once per fight just so good?

[runic trail]

It just pulls ahead on shorter fights

I've heard 4 minutes being touted as the tipping point

[void hound]

class specific tier sets died cause of hero talents

common hero talents L

[north schooner]

I would hate to play with DN

[haughty mural]

Also weaponmaster is not good

So tfd pulls ahead in shorter fights

[mighty citrus]

can you somehow reactivate tfd in a fight? i guess no right, even if possible not doing something is not worth i guess

[runic trail]

Not that I'm aware of

[warm marlin]

You cannot exit combat on raid bosses no

[mighty citrus]

seeing all those people using bs in a dance makes me angry as well. currently looking for minmaxstuff

but i hate this so much

how could some dev think this is a nice think to do, its fun to play

[hollow spear]

Idk if I'd blame the devs for that

[mighty citrus]

yeah it might not be intended

thats true

but numbers turned out to be better like this

[hollow spear]

It's us being degenerate and doing cringe stuff to get another 0.4% dps

Danse Macabre naturally stacks quite well with our kit, we just try to squeeze it more

[north schooner]

even if it is intended, it's not degenerate imo. Degenerate is what you have to do with deathstalker to make it work

[mighty citrus]

i guess you all have a seperate keybind for bs which does not switch in stealthbar?

or whats the recommended way

[north schooner]

whatever works for you, I actually use a different bind for BS out of stealth and in stealth/dance

since for dances you only press it once

[warm marlin]

1 = backstab in dance 2 = backstab outside stealth, ss in stealth and I just eat the stance delay rarely

[north schooner]

there is also that macro that combines dance and backstab

[mighty citrus]

can it trigger dance double by accident? or this is not possible in general

[north schooner]

no

you cannot dance in a dance

[mighty citrus]

then this is maybe something

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[north schooner]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[mighty citrus]

thanks mate

[runic trail]

1 is just backstab in and out of dance for me

[mighty citrus]

yeah my musclememory has std bs ss on 1

i try the macro

[short radish]

i have a separate BS/SS bind because of the ol stance delay bug

dunno if thats still a thing now

[alpine wraith]

i have backstab outside of stealth

bar

crazy i know

[warm marlin]

I think it is but it doesn’t make a huge difference atm

Most of your dances start with backstab anyway

So your bars are updated by the time you would be pressing ss

(Or at least that’s my cope on why I don’t want to change it)

[void hound]

i try to avoid macros whereever i can so i have a seperate backstab on shift v

[bleak yew]

Is the 11.2 PTR available in the EU to play around with the new tier sets yet?

[short radish]

yeah im also just too used to muscle memory now

[vale pine]

yes

you can add the ptr server to your account in the account settings

[north schooner]

there are never separate EU PTR servers but you can play on them

[vale pine]

and after it install it from the battlenet launcher

there is no eu ptr, its all on NA servers so ping is higher

but its not region locked, which i assume was the question

[bleak yew]

Okay, I've got the PTR loaded and installed however it keeps saying the servers aren't available..

[north schooner]

they might be down

let me check

I think they will patch it today

but that's closer to midnight for european timezones

[north schooner]

ptr servers are up rn

[bleak yew]

Cheers, I've recreated the PTR account - all working tyvm team

[vale pine]

have fun

[glacial hinge]

Best luck in finding less bugs for us 💪

[median nacelle]

'secreat' too much coffee fuu?

[brittle plinth]

That's the secret

It was always secreat

[median nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look-suspicious-doubt-dog-doubt-gif-23680990

[north schooner]

at least we don't secrete technique

[vale pine]

☕

ill fix, moment (done)

[brittle plinth]

Blank meaning sod w/o dance?

[alpine wraith]

yea

you send sod and sec tech without dance

[brittle plinth]

Just hadn't heard the term so I wanted to make sure it wasn't some tech I had completely missed

Thanks

I love how @vale pine raised this 2x

Well done

❤️

[vale pine]

[vale pine]

exactly

[sly shore]

My favourite part of the article was all three writers saying how shit the hero talents are but how good the tier sets are

[lilac stag]

my favorite part is assa taking another sub niche

[runic trail]

At least they're consistent

[alpine wraith]

assa needs to get all the infinity jewels

only needs to become a ranged spec in midnight

[lilac stag]

assa just needs to be deleted

[alpine wraith]

so it can have funnel aoe st burst and execute in ranged

oh wait that is mm

or dev kek

although they dont have funnel kinda

[lilac stag]

No need to funnel if you just delete everything

[hazy breach]

I unironically think the deathstalker 2ps buffing of all the effects is really cool

The issue is what effects its buffing

[alpine wraith]

if only the DS effects

yea you took that one out of my mouth

[swift tinsel]

Like imagine the 2pc for trickster doing the same thing

Better nimble, better flawless

[hazy breach]

80 minutes tricks

Oh right its only damage effects

Nvm

[swift tinsel]

Nah they’d whitelist tricks for the meme

Or on accident bc spaghetti

[hazy breach]

Now why the effect is separate from symbols i have no idea

[alpine wraith]

watch it not work with singular

[hazy breach]

It doesnt work with inevitability nor does it pandemic

So its kinda jank

[hollow plinth]

where sim

[hazy breach]

Outlaw sims higher dw

[tepid trellis]

we are sandbaggin sorry

[hollow plinth]

i see

[lilac stag]

where buffs

[tepid trellis]

we had enough of week 1 nerfs

[alpine wraith]

yea we are not making any apl changes too for new set just wing it

[hazy breach]

Idk im mostly hoping for bugfixes/fixing interactions for the rest of PTR

[alpine wraith]

randomly proc UB 10 times in a row in opener

get 4 coups

[hazy breach]

Unironically couldnt find any

[lilac stag]

[alpine wraith]

well organically in fights you can move more things around

and better burst is never bad

so maybe some triple dances here

or a double dance in between somewhere

[hazy breach]

The new tier is less bursty than the undermine one

[alpine wraith]

but maybe putting apl things with how rng it is might break things

[haughty mural]

Can we have trackable ub resets ?

[alpine wraith]

well with the new trink not really

that one is big boi one

[alpine wraith]

sorry indi compani

[hazy breach]

Yes trinkets bring it up to roughly the same level as before

Unless we hold the trinket ofc

[alpine wraith]

depends on how important it is to leapfrog phases

[haughty mural]

[alpine wraith]

like having a fully stacked one for bandit or mug zee would ahve been good

or in gally to pad

kek

but also wonder if the bugged 14k crit trink is staying

or getting a 50% slap

think mythic one was like 16k+ crit

[tepid trellis]

u know what i dont get?

why did classic get 1min30 cd resets on encounter wipes

[steel zinc]

14% for the 4p is kinda low compared to other tier sets

[tepid trellis]

but retail hasent?

[alpine wraith]

sometimes it is what it is

[hazy breach]

18% is fine

[haughty mural]

Didn’t know that

[lilac stag]

18 compared to 40. Not fine

[leaden prairie]

wtf they did

[runic trail]

Blizz, pls

[hollow plinth]

wtf

[lilac stag]

Classic has an actual dev team

[runic trail]

Also why stop at 90 seconds and not go down to a minute or something

Or just, reset it all idk

[brittle plinth]

Classic dev team?

[vale pine]

the real question is, why don't all cooldowns reset with a whipe

[alpine wraith]

so you cant be happy after a wipe

[vale pine]

sitting there with low amount of dance charges and symbol charges is stupid

[brittle plinth]

Tell me you don't play classic without playing classic

[swift tinsel]

or why can't I change talents when one charge of something is on cooldown

[alpine wraith]

same reason we dont have tps to bosses

gotta do the walk of shame sometimes

[vale pine]

this one is explainable, its to prevent exploitation

[brittle plinth]

We will absolutely abuse the shit out of things like that

[runic trail]

Yup, vanish with one charge left on bleed build, can't swap to a normal build with only one vanish charge until both charges are back

[sly shore]

Yeah like the tier set is good

But everything else

yikers

[vale pine]

the idea is good

[swift tinsel]

30% more cdr for dance during symbols

[vale pine]

but limiting it to damage amps made it meh

[round charm]

Guys what's the recommended sim for m+ please? Dung slice/5t5m/m+ route in expert mode?

[runic trail]

Dungeon slice I believe

[north schooner]

dslice is good yes

[round charm]

Is route sim supported or not rly? I kinda like it

[vale pine]

dungeon slice

[round charm]

Ait thanks, will use that one

[oblique burrow]

Anyone know why shadow blade isnt macrooed ?

i cant macro it and idk why

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

its off gcd so you should have no issues putting it in a macro

[oblique burrow]

I tried in french but it doesnt work

[rapid forum]

You probably missed the s or made it one word instead of 2

[oblique burrow]

it's called "Lames de l'ombre"

[oblique burrow]

tried with every possible combination lol

[rapid forum]

are you in subtlety specc

and have you skilled blades

[oblique burrow]

I have and yes

[tribal blade]

sin is about to be melting prio targets in keys

[rapid forum]

what happens if you copy paste what the chat command linked you previously

[keen dome]

Can you post your macro?

[oblique burrow]

#showtooltip Lames de l'ombre
/cast Lames de l'ombre
/use 13
/use 14

[oblique burrow]

doesn't work cause it's in english

[rapid forum]

go english client

mby macro doesnt like the ' idk

[oblique burrow]

here is the name in french btw

[vale pine]

type /cast
open your spellbook
right click on shadowblades to add it to the macro

[oblique burrow]

I prefer it in french tbh, much easier to not do the translation in my mind

Ok ! will try

didnt work, just activated shadowblades but didnt put it in my macro

[north schooner]

shift click it

[oblique burrow]

it just take the icon to my mouse, doesnt put it on my macro

[north schooner]

do you have the macro open?

[oblique burrow]

Yes

[runic trail]

Would putting a spell ID in work?

No clue but, might be an option

[hazy breach]

Theres not that much of a difference

Since envenoms do way less damage

[tribal blade]

oh is there not? sad

[north schooner]

just to make sure, your cursor is blinking in the macro box when you shift click from the spellbook yes?

[oblique burrow]

Idk tbh 🥲

[oblique burrow]

yes

fcking love when macros dont work 🥲

[runic trail]

Try /cast 121471 maybe?

[hazy breach]

Sims suggest about a 2-3% increase in prio damage on 8 targets if simply comparing the sets

But also the new set kinda sucks for deathstalker, so it will probably get buffed

[runic trail]

Wait no that's mop classic spell id

Shit

[oblique burrow]

nope

[north schooner]

you can try relogging in case this is some bug with localised clients

[oblique burrow]

I'll try that

[rapid forum]

i am pretty sure its the ', either macros dont accept these (which i doubt) or you used the wrong key for it

[runic trail]

Try 121473

Instead

[oblique burrow]

will try

[runic trail]

I have no clue if you can cast by spellID but I'm just throwing shit at the problem now to see if it sticks

[oblique burrow]

doesnt work

[runic trail]

Well, shit

[north schooner]

french debuff

[rapid forum]

´ ` '

try these

or just go english client tbh

[north schooner]

you can only use items by ID in macros

[runic trail]

Well, I tried

[north schooner]

so they need the localised name but if shift click doesn't work that's tough chance if it's something subtle like different apostrophe unicode

[oblique burrow]

Nope

i tried even copy pasting the wowhead name

[north schooner]

does any other spell with apostrophes work?

[oblique burrow]

and it didnt take 🥲

[runic trail]

Try without apostrophes maybe?

[oblique burrow]

Yeah my stealth one work

#showtooltip Camouflage dans l'ombre
/cast Camouflage dans l'ombre
/cast Camouflage

Annoying as f*ck

[vestal escarp]

🤐

[tribal blade]

yeah even just glancing at the set it didn't sound like it amounted to a great deal of dmg

[oblique burrow]

we'll see with tunings i guess

[swift tinsel]

was there a new build today? thought I saw someone say something about servers being down before

[hazy breach]

Nah

[rapid forum]

@oblique burrow what about this in your macro window

here it seems to work

what did you do different there

[oblique burrow]

No i just took the picture

[rapid forum]

ah lmao

[oblique burrow]

Yeah

got baited first time lol

is it bad is it macro it on my first CD ?

now shadow Blades but the other 1.5 min cd?

[runic trail]

Ye.

[swift tinsel]

you don't use them in the same cast

so macroing them is not a good idea

plus they do different things so you want to cast them in a specific order in a sequence

[oblique burrow]

Shit

i'm fcked

[rapid forum]

please double check, did you skill blades and save your talent tree?

[runic trail]

Nah, just spend some time practicing the opener and cooldown window

[north schooner]

they have it in their spellbook

but could try relearning the talent dunno

[runic trail]

I take it just typing the English spell name won't work on the french client? As a theory

[rapid forum]

na doesnt

[runic trail]

Cos they still had to type /cast instead of whatever the french for cast is

[rapid forum]

commands work but names of items/abilities/npcs that are different do not

[runic trail]

Okay that's my theory gone

I shall resume throwing things at the problem until something maybe works

[keen dome]

Random idea but maybe swap spec to another one and back and then try it

[runic trail]

I aim for quantity not quality

[keen dome]

Unless someone already suggested this when I wasn't paying attention

[oblique burrow]

I did

[oblique burrow]

NJo

No*

[alpine wraith]

think you need to shift click for it to paste from spellbook

let me check a sec

[oblique burrow]

i'll try once again

[runic trail]

Cttl-click? Or maybe it's shift right click

[rapid forum]

make sure macro is open and you clicked inside the macro when trying that

[runic trail]

Just hit buttons I dunno, pretend you're a Ret paladin

[oblique burrow]

i need to click inside the macro?

not on the spell?

[lilac stag]

You need the cursor active in the macro

Then shift click the spell

[oblique burrow]

I DID IT

nice

thx guys

all the love ❤️

[lilac stag]

just needed me.

[oblique burrow]

thx man

[lilac stag]

In preparation for inevitable next macro issue

[runic trail]

Next macro issue I'm just gonna ping scath

[runic trail]

It's not on my main bar either

[haughty mural]

There were no chances for rogue right ?
Somehow my wowhead does not load

[runic trail]

Not that I've seen

[haughty mural]

Ah my mobile connection is just bricked i guess

[lilac stag]

Just sinking further south of mediocrity

[oblique burrow]

Nope i got it

[runic trail]

Cold blood sectec just lives on the third bar above the main bar

[cloud rover]

Imagine having a stealth bar

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

Imagine playing rogue

[cloud rover]

You got me there

[runic trail]

It's fine we're just sandbagging before the tier

Then raid launches and we go ham

[lilac stag]

Right up to upper lower third of all dps

[runic trail]

I'm too institutionalised to not play rogue

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/snowwhite-gif-4798049125362932342

[runic trail]

Grippy socks are the comfiest fucking socks you can't change my mind

They're great

[cloud rover]

Grip this

[lilac stag]

just as great as playing assa another tier because… they got another niche.

[runic trail]

If the niche involves playing fatebound, not worth it

[lilac stag]

If you take 5 words out of Mr W’s post as a dev, it says fix Fatebound

[runic trail]

I'd like it to be fixed but we've got this far into the expansion without it being fixed

[lilac stag]

so be careful what ya wish for.

[runic trail]

Like, this isn't new feedback

[swift tinsel]

sounds like most feedback lol

the same issues have been prevalent with hero trees basically since day one

being alpha/beta

[runic trail]

Yup, and no real changes, so I kinda of doubt they'll do anything with them this expansion

[swift tinsel]

closest thing to changes was making Marks not giga-stackable

and that was just a bug iirc

[runic trail]

I'd like to be proven wrong

I don't want to doom

[haughty mural]

https://tenor.com/view/tonight-doom-gif-19873326

[oblique burrow]

Whats a good idea of one rotation of dps as sub?

like how much dmg in a full cycle ?

bc looking at raidbots, he said i should do 2M and i am at like 1.8M max rn

[lilac stag]

You burst. Then you flatline. Really depends on targets. You can see the burst windows in the full details

[brittle plinth]

That's an interesting question, ignoring whether you mean single target or more, buffs no buffs, dummy's? Like what is a rotation for sub? Since we are a class of procs and cdr, where do we draw the line? End of flag window I guess?

[oblique burrow]

How much should i burst ?

[oblique burrow]

single target, no buffs, dummys

just before the second set au 1.5 min C

CD*

[short radish]

how long is a piece of string

[brittle plinth]

If you aren't planning on using your second set of 1.5 you would greed more dances. I don't think you should focus on a #

I'd focus on the actual rotation

[lilac stag]

Post a link to your sim

[brittle plinth]

^

[oblique burrow]

I'll post wait a bit

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9Ds2C6w4YcyVvjFuwJXTWm

[oblique burrow]

Here is with 1.3 min patchwerk

[lilac stag]

there's your peak

[oblique burrow]

here is 5 min

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/st71Mu6MRx53ZxaEH6D7PV

[lilac stag]

idk why you're simming 1.3 minutes but ok

[brittle plinth]

he was breaking down sub to dps every 90s

[oblique burrow]

no i just tried to know

not just 1.3 min

but the cycle you know

[lilac stag]

see in the bottom right where it say Full HTML report?

that has the information you want

[oblique burrow]

yes?

ok thanks !

[lilac stag]

get rid of signet and get house of cards

if you're playing Sub

[oblique burrow]

I dont have it

but yeah, i know i need to

[lilac stag]

then get the pvp trinket

[oblique burrow]

i'll just get another trinket for season 2

is it easy to get?

[brittle plinth]

pvp one?

30-40 mins of work

[oblique burrow]

cause i'm thrash in pvp

[lilac stag]

can you fly around and open up chests ?

[brittle plinth]

no real pvp skill required

put on warmode and do the spark of war I think its called

[lilac stag]

you can also get a WA to announce warbound chests and atleast on NA there are groups that farm them for conq points

[oblique burrow]

i'll try !

can someone send a guide to get this 1min pvp trinket?

[keen dome]

Turn on warmode -> fly around getting war crates which spawn ever 30 - 45 minutes (or look in group finder for one) -> buy trinket.

Alternatively just queue pvp and get conquest. It's 700 so doesn't take long

[oblique burrow]

whats conquest?

i'm a pvp noob

just looked at bloodmallet and they still recommand the signet of the priory

[swift tinsel]

in Mimiron, is it possible to turn a Top Gear sim result into a gearset to use in Droptimizer?

without having to enter all of the item and bonus id's for each slot

[lilac stag]

They’re even in exactly a 5 min sim. Every other scenario badge is better. We are a 90 second spec, not a 2 min spec. Your 2 min trinket is getting turned into a 3 minute trinket and literally every other go you’re not getting to use a trinket. It’s bad.

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[viscid mulch]

Any idea why my sim is saying to put my 684 dagger (from vault right now) in my off hand and my crafted dagger in my main hand? Isnt weapon dmg good for MH slot?

[runic trail]

Can you link the sim?

[viscid mulch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s5asV3ARg1opdGrzc4xfTv

[swift tinsel]

says its a loss

[viscid mulch]

if i change my embellishment to my ring it is saying its an increase, but im wondering why its putting it to my offhand?

[hollow plinth]

didnt tell it to enchant MH

[swift tinsel]

rip lol

[viscid mulch]

ahhh okay, used to play 2h classes im dumb

Wait the sim shows an enchant on it?

[runic trail]

might be because you already have the crafted one enchanted

But the new one isn't yet enchanted

[viscid mulch]

I still dont understand why its putting it on the offhand slot? Everything ive read says MH dmg is good. or am I wrong?

[runic trail]

Because when its in the mainhand slot, it isn't enchanted

Run it again but select the mainhand enchants

[tame stratus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rAW6po6Uu38bp1yWDsY46P

[hollow plinth]

it enchants offhand but not mainhand

[runic trail]

Or have Tamaran run it for you this also works!

[viscid mulch]

Okay okay that makes sense. Thanks!

[rich stump]

I was wondering why is this not mentioned anywhere?
Dropping the rotten and 1 Symbols charge for Finality, it does seem to be better no? I run into a 5 sec desync issue after 2nd set of CDS but since I mainly play m+ it doesn't really matter.
The rotten seems fairly useless since our first ability is backstab anyway and that 3% damage from Death Perception is actually 2.6% going from 13% to 16%.
While Finality whith finality, in an m+ run those finisher are about 40% of overall damage which would be increased by 15% overall which is 6% dps increase.
I just didn't find it mentioned anywhere.

[swift tinsel]

The rotten is used in m+ to spread find weakness

In combination with improved shuriken storm

[rich stump]

but does it matter with nimble flurry? like is the damage from nimble multiplied again by find weakness, is it doube dipping?

in 7 or less targets ofc

[swift tinsel]

It matters when you start casting black powder

[vale pine]

rotten has the best trade off

[swift tinsel]

Because find weakness + shadowed finishers boosts the damage of BP

[vale pine]

for any tfd build

[rich stump]

mhh I guess it makes sense

[upper narwhal]

I tried dropping rotten for finality last I was doing M+ on Sub, but it makes your AoE burst a good bit less consistent by not guaranteeing the find weakness in mass aoe

sims roughly the same but in practice it definitely feels worse

[rich stump]

yea, I was also thinking the rotten + goremaw(and 50% crit dmg boost from trickester) would be nice but unfortunately there is no points no move around

[swift tinsel]

Goremaw is a meme

[upper narwhal]

goremaw is trash never click it

[warm marlin]

#goremawbeliever

[swift tinsel]

My phone doesn’t even like my typing it lol

[serene notch]

[swift tinsel]

Tried to stop me twice haha

[rich stump]

maybe I'll drop Flag for goremaw in a +10 just for the meme(aka DPS death sentance)

https://tenor.com/view/el-risitas-juan-joya-borja-ratones-coloraos-laugh-meme-laughing-man-gif-24899295

[swift tinsel]

Nope

[warm marlin]

You can take PV and force it for goremaw and rotten and only press it in dance just so it can do the damage of a singular mediocre eviscerate

[swift tinsel]

Your computer will explode

Don’t ask how I know

Also pretty sure it’s a Lashga secret account

[north schooner]

goremaw mentioned

[swift tinsel]

The dropping flag gave it away lol

[warm marlin]

nop that one got gunned down

[rich stump]

idk who that is

[swift tinsel]

A likely story

Jk jk

[north schooner]

there is one way to check

[swift tinsel]

A guy who would unironically try cooking up the most cursed builds

[north schooner]

what is your opinion of the discord server's badge colours?

[warm marlin]

[runic trail]

Was he the sub version of Ryukage?

[swift tinsel]

No flag no Sectech

All to eke out a key level but get carried anyways

[swift tinsel]

I’m unfamiliar

I mean the name is a little familiar

[runic trail]

Ryukage was the person cooking up cursed outlaw builds

[swift tinsel]

Ah

Then yeah haha

[runic trail]

He also got banned due to the server icon, among other things

[warm marlin]

Less cooked than Ryu

[runic trail]

Thats a low bar to clear tbf

[warm marlin]

#ripthegoat

[north schooner]

ryukage was sub for a few days, did he not cook enough for sub?

[rich stump]

man last time I played sub seriously was in Legion pre and post rework(immune to fall dmg op btw), spec has changed quite a bit since then

[keen dome]

I miss no fall damage

Bring it back

[hazy breach]

Yes but also no, its actually quite similar to how it was played back then

[hazy breach]

Black powder does more than evis+nimble does on 5 targets, assuming all of them have find weakness on them

[rich stump]

I mean back to back finishers is already a big step up and filling CP with 1 press outside of blades(which is actually good now) also is great. Plus pre rework dances kinda hit like a wet noodle even though you had 3 charges and uptime that was too high. and yea fall damage immunity op

[rich stump]

how so? on fuu guide on wow head it says below 7 to evisc

[hazy breach]

Well it takes 7 targets for it to average out to 5 or more find weaknesses up most of the time

[vale pine]

^ it's a optimization around find weakness

find weakness is also difficult to track, so you usually don't know exact find weakness counts

outside of the guaranteed application of rotten

[rich stump]

ok so it does more overall under optimal conditions but you miss out on a bit of priority damage.
Also does rupture snapshot with symbols damage increase, like after the cd windows is it worth to spread rupture again assuming enemies will live and gain the 16% damage boost for the whole duration or does it not work that way?

[vale pine]

when learning, its a minor detail which isn't relevant, it becomes relevant if you want to min/max

[swift tinsel]

snapshotting largely doesn't exist in wow anymore

[vale pine]

damage amplifiers don't snapshot but are dynamic

[swift tinsel]

outside of specific cases

[vale pine]

outside of finality

[rich stump]

ok thanks

[swift tinsel]

iirc finality and feral bleeds are the only real snapshot dots anymore

[alpine wraith]

improv garrote too i think

[lilac stag]

Who let our favorite chef back in RH?

[shrewd lantern]

The funny thing is outlaw players fr playing hoc now.

The mastery build cooks came true

[runic trail]

the darkest timeline

[alpine wraith]

im waiting for owl to just come

and drop the gnarliest

write up

[tepid trellis]

he got reprimanded too hard

he aint doing it again

[alpine wraith]

maybe he cooks the secret goremaw technique

[runic trail]

What did I miss who cooked?

[void ocean]

did someone say cooking

oh its outlaw

lel

are we again at the point of discussing other specs/classes here 😄

[vale pine]

spec confirmed

[alpine wraith]

not really i will try to do some apl and other shit this weekend

but problem is tier does not help

woth how krangled it gets from escalatings

and resets

i though about triple dance on cds or getting two dances with lily in between prisms

[void ocean]

we talkin bout current or ptr?

[alpine wraith]

ptr mainly i guess

[void ocean]

ah

[swift tinsel]

I wanna futz around with the 2min plus prism a bit later, sounds promising

Can likely fit triple dance in it

And then prism 1:30 flag etc

[void ocean]

prism?

new trinket

?

or u Isaac Newton

[swift tinsel]

But if you end up with sub-11k or 14k agi throughout most of the third dance prism is just better there

Which lines up better later

I wanna get my hands on Halls trinket tho

[void ocean]

was that a cannister

or w/e was the name

[swift tinsel]

Nah I think it’s new

[void ocean]

decanter or smth

oh

[swift tinsel]

It’s a 1sec channel that gives crit and does damage

[void ocean]

oh god not the channel

[swift tinsel]

Drops off second boss

[void ocean]

i loved HoA tho

as a venth, my fav key

[swift tinsel]

That and Taz were the SL dungeons I was hoping to see the most

So I’m quite excited for this season which isn’t normally the case lol

[midnight ledge]

I feel like the tier set for sub barely makes a difference in improving gameplay at all for trickster. It’ll be almost exactly the same. Maybe some slightly quicker but not very impactful resets outside of blades. But then what’s really the point? It seems like a very disappointing outlook on a tier so far.

Dungeons are cool I guess though

[swift tinsel]

Imo there isn’t a whole lot to improve for trickster as far as gameplay is concerned, at least in single target

So the extra cdr bump is nice but not crazy

As has been pointed out though, it basically covers up not getting a little more from Deepening like we’ve asked for for a while now

There’s also the possibility the 2pc changes which may impact the set but

It’s annoying for both outlaw and sub

And since outlaw is getting the attention this ptr cycle we may collaterally benefit lol

[hazy breach]

Slightly more damage outside cds with more coups is mostly it

But ye it doesnt matter much, nor do i think it needs to, trickster already plays well in ST

We just need somebody to adress how our AoE plays, its jank regardless of what hero talent we choose

[swift tinsel]

I’m afraid of getting an Empowered version of Tornado because that’s the melee aoe trend

[hazy breach]

Wdym

[swift tinsel]

Windwalker aoe revamp led to Slicing Winds, Frost Dk aoe revamp led to Breath being an empower spell

[vale pine]

tornado is an abomination, don't think its normal

[swift tinsel]

I’m hoping that’s the view they take if they ever look at our aoe

I will say though, breath empower introduced an interesting idea in shifting buff duration and cooldown based on empower level

[alpine wraith]

they will make tornado use 3 sec techs

and call it a day

[swift tinsel]

Each clone spawns three clones

Which spawn three more of their own

Multi shadow clone jutsu

[midnight ledge]

Yeah I guess I was just hoping for something more impactful or visual or both. I enjoy the burst and speed of sub but the 30 seconds of downtime is killer.

I don’t enjoy multidotting so I don’t think assassin will sit well for me. I’ve never tried outlaw.

[swift tinsel]

I think we’d all be happy with anything more visually appealing than what we have now lol

[hazy breach]

Ofc, but the tiersets were never gonna rework the hero talents, its just doubling down on what its already doing

[swift tinsel]

Even from just a baseline perspective

Yeah I didn’t have any real crazy expectations

Now if coup enabled a second Sectech…

That didn’t interrupt/reset the cooldown if it was already on cd

[sharp lake]

in M+ aoe, is Backstab as first builder incorrect? Should it be Shadow Strike -> Shuriken Storm or Backstab -> Shuriken Storm?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter really

[sharp lake]

fair enough

and for burst with The First Dance active, should we still use Secret Technique as first finisher in the first Shadow Dance? Or is delaying it by one finisher for Danse Macabre correct?

[left ledge]

i think tornado has potential

just not the way it is right now

our aoe cd SHOULD be something that empowers our finishers for either aoe or funnel

[warm marlin]

Shadowcraft makes storm give 1 sht for each overcapped cp (so all but 1 in blades)

[hazy breach]

Just using it asap is usually the best

For both dances

[vale pine]

i don't see it

it is in conflict with so many other design decisions

[swift tinsel]

I’d be fine if they took the talent out entirely and replaced it with nothing

With our aoe being what it is currently

Else they just make it Shadow Nimble Flurry and make nimble in trickster tree increase its damage like it does for outlaw

As a bandaid until they rework it all

Only active in dance, idc

Would make DN evisc slightly less aids in aoe ig

[warm marlin]

Semi serious question since I’m not a super long time sub enjoyer

Why doesn’t there exist a stealth equivalent to storm that actually does damage i.e backstab/ss

[vale pine]

storm does not rly need to do damage

its main issue is how expensive it is

[warm marlin]

it would help with big aoe rather than shadowstriking

Especially if it applied FW in aoe without requiring talenting rotten

[swift tinsel]

we kind of have a piecemeal aoe kit

it wasn't assembled with a full picture in mind, so it just exists as-is in a cobbled-together state

hell, we didn't have an aoe finisher until relatively recently

[lilac stag]

Tornado Sucks. Storm Sucks. BP doesn’t feel good to press. we got turned into temo outlaw flurry with CDs

AOE needs an actual overhaul

[swift tinsel]

agreed

with vision

[lilac stag]

or it gets removed

And bring combo back

[runic trail]

More mobs in M+ now have truesight. There's your vision.

[swift tinsel]

storm showed up in legion, bp showed up in shadowlands

so actually nimble showing up in tww tracks for getting another piece of the aoe puzzle added every other expansion lol

so in the last titan we'll get another block to add to the jenga tower

which is actually just a pile atm

[lilac stag]

combo into flurry would be a solid option

Way better than the shit show it is now

but that’s assa now.

[alpine wraith]

meanwhile

[hazy breach]

It used to do 2x damage during dance

But then they removed that for some reason

[vale pine]

storm was also buffed a few times baseline

[north schooner]

trickster makes it awkward too because only BS and SS apply UB

[vale pine]

thats true

[swift tinsel]

give us dreadlords leggo

[rough sigil]

ima be real with you chief. I would sign up for this.

[swift tinsel]

people's cpu's would explode

[lilac stag]

Can’t be any worse than warlocks and their 40 imps

[left ledge]

i mean it has potential in becoming a 1 min aoe cd, it just needs to be redesigned

i think a node over there, with that cd, and focused on aoe is the potential

not specifically tornado

but happens to be tornado

[tepid trellis]

a bit of a long time ago it actually used to hit decently hard

[alpine wraith]

storm hit quite hard in legion

in bfa it was well

not that good but still decent

[shrewd lantern]

yeah with the cloak

and dnce amp

Then they gutted it when they added bp

[chrome palm]

Holy fan of knives cloak

Bring me back

One shotting people with fok in the open world

Why can’t we have good things

[vale pine]

perma silence fok

wod had a very cool version of it

wotlk*

[swift tinsel]

nothing like trivializing Faction Champions all on our own lol

[clever delta]

blasters, do we have prediction for S3 start?

ppl keep saing next month

[oblique burrow]

WE ARE DOOMED

Kidding, we wont know until live BTW

I'd say 13 august, or 20

[runic trail]

August 13th probs

[clever delta]

yeah i heard that

thats nice

[runic trail]

20th would be nice I'm at a festival the weekend before the 13th and I'm gonna need a week of staring into the void to mentally and physically recover

[clever delta]

nah sooner better

[oblique burrow]

I'm also busy after the 13

So i hope 20

[brittle plinth]

Hopefully September

Cause I'm gone all Aug

[fallow nimbus]

12th would be nice, right in the middle of 3 weeks vacation

Change wouldn't hurt me because i haven't logged it in yet

[hazy breach]

Word on the street is patch 12, raid 19

But who knows

(13/20 in eu)

[lilac stag]

sub buffs Sept 30th

[north schooner]

to counter the nerfs of week 1

[lilac stag]

I think rogue would need to show up on details to get a nerf week1

[charred sandal]

when the whole rotation bases around SS Evis on both ST and AoE with little to no change in builds to accomodate u know u got a bandaid system

[hazy breach]

But its not really evis on aoe though

Thats the thing

BP is better when you have 5 find weaknesses up, especially during blades

So its just convoluted as hell

You want to storm for find weakness but that doesnt proc unseen blade, so you strike but that doesnt spread find weakness

Bleh

[charred sandal]

Yeah but to me sub turns out INSANELY repetitive real quick just cuz it got no depth, u cant really realistically change around like sin does with hybrid/bleed/cleave playing completely differently within same spec

[charred sandal]

also this

[hazy breach]

I mean sure you cant really swap much talents but you can change the timings of your dances and symbols a lot

[charred sandal]

all the systems overlaping each other

[hazy breach]

Which has quite a lot of depth

[charred sandal]

thats to me the little fun left, the cd managing

[lilac stag]

as eleem said BP is better. It’s just poorly integrated. Sub got turned into outlaw where your st is your cleave. Unless they fix CDR and DS we’re stuck here until 12.0

There’s way more wrong with our spec talents than there is right. enjoy what we have if it’s fun for you, otherwise move along to greener pastures

[north schooner]

they are saving their sub changes for late in this ptr phase

[lilac stag]

yeah late 12.0 ptr

[charred sandal]

but rogue is cool... it got daggers n shadows n stuff man...

[north schooner]

everything is ugly af this month at the trading post

[swift tinsel]

if the armor didn't have the roses on it I'd really dig the purple and green sets

the weapons are w/e

[charred sandal]

get the scuba set 🔥

[north schooner]

we are not that kind of sub

[brittle plinth]

Number one change rogues need is xmog daggers with fists

Everything else barely matters

[charred sandal]

u wanna tmog this ones

[brittle plinth]

Those pretty slick

[fickle mason]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[humble river]

Had a quick question about the Summarily Dispatched talent. Is there ever a scenario where you try to optimize that such as:

1. Using Dispatch>Between the Eyes as KiR comes off CD to farm additional buffs from CtO?
2. Utilize the low energy cost if you don't have AR or Buried Treasure (from RtB) active?

I can see some niche value from the first scenario, but I imagine the second one is basically just if you play poorly. Even then it might not be worth it to do/think about. Curious what y'all think.

[swift tinsel]

oh snap

jk jk its probs another nothingburger

[lilac stag]

Think you’re lost bruv

[charred sandal]

?

we on this side of the road

[swift tinsel]

no new fixes

[bleak night]

we're saved

[swift tinsel]

shits still bugged, 2pc still annoying

[humble river]

Oop, wrong channel lmao mb

[brisk onyx]

What?

[swift tinsel]

no sub changes with new ptr build

[brisk onyx]

[swift tinsel]

unless there's bugfixes I didn't get to yet

[brisk onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[cobalt gazelle]

bruh wyd @chrome palm

[chrome palm]

who is that ive never seen them before

[swift tinsel]

I literally test bugs every new build, that's how I found RS last time

because they never announce any of them

nimble still goofy with blades and wm

[brisk onyx]

🫡

[charred sandal]

Apply as QA tester they clearly need more

[swift tinsel]

lmfao nah

they'd probably balk at paying anyways

[charred sandal]

You would join the rogue dev team wich consists of 2 dudes sitting on a dinner table with plastic chairs and a thinkpad

[swift tinsel]

there's way better minds for that than mine

[brittle plinth]

Dave you dropped this

👑

[swift tinsel]

lol I literally do nothing but go through the list Eleem put together and replicate the bugs to see if they're still in

anyone can do that if they feel like it lol

[charred sandal]

Youre doing gods work soldier 🫡

[brittle plinth]

you acting like that isnt amazing work

[swift tinsel]

It’s really not lol other people do the hard part of finding them in the first place

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade we done

[tribal blade]

IT'S OVERRRRR

GRATS!!

[lilac stag]

got Eye so yay

[tribal blade]

niiiiice

[lilac stag]

half our melee got gibbed

me the warrior and a dk all got popped by something and insta died lol

we just kept going to practice and well, killed him ahah

[jaunty heath]

How many pulls? We kill this week surely

[lilac stag]

121

[jaunty heath]

Goddamn I need to get out of here asap

We on 200+

I should’ve gone out of here after 245 on sprocket

If I didn’t promise my friend I’d stay until it’s cleared…

[tender frost]

I'm sure it's been asked 100 times but what's the deal with OAB logs where the dps for sub is so different between summary and the actual number

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d8zKkW6hZQbNrf7g?fight=9&type=summary summary says 3.76 but then damage done tab says 3.56

[jaunty heath]

Pretty sure they excluded adds

Small ones

[lilac stag]

yeah they dropped alll the add shit afaik

[tender frost]

ah okay im just confused because my damage to the assistants is half of what my details says

and they're not excluded