subtlety

[hollow spear]

You guys didn't buy a 2500 € supporter package for ashes of creation?

[vale pine]

and it is why we see more content re-use than ever before

[brittle plinth]

What was that Amazon one a few years ago?

New World?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[bleak night]

ffxiv is weird because they somehow seem to coexist as the two largest mmos without massively competing for the same player base

[brittle plinth]

Its still going?

[bleak night]

its still there

[swift tinsel]

Kind of, I think they do updates here and there

a few guildmates play

[bleak night]

i wouldnt call it an active mmo though

[brittle plinth]

FFXIV fanbase overlap with WoW fanbase as a venn diagram would barely touch

[vale pine]

you mean the one one of the big guild leaders who streams a lot on twitch did say will kill wow?

[bleak night]

new world kind of just exists to fund the lotr mmo lmao

[swift tinsel]

people thought Aion would kill WoW, same with Swtor

[bleak night]

that will also be ass because its the same devs making the same mistakes

[vale pine]

that aged as well as milk in the summer sun

[swift tinsel]

or 'insert 50 other mmos' here'

[bleak night]

swtor couldve been big ngl

[swift tinsel]

one of the kings of hot takes gave a hot take

[bleak night]

its actually a really good game

[brittle plinth]

there were a lot of wow killers

[north schooner]

wow has been killed like 10 times by now

[bleak night]

just not given the resources it would need to thrive

[swift tinsel]

yeah I liked the gameplay but it just didn't have enough to compete

[brittle plinth]

only Blizzard can kill wow

and they're doing it slowly

Blizzard managed to kill Cata with content droughts 2x, don't underestimate them

[vale pine]

The problem is, you rly need to improve on multiple things to get people to play something not blizz

[swift tinsel]

the class stories were fantastic, as just a star wars rpg it is a great game

[vale pine]

the blizz fandom is extremely loyal

[swift tinsel]

stockholm syndrome

[vale pine]

and many stay within the blizz ecosystem

[swift tinsel]

sunk cost fallacy

combination of the two

[vale pine]

I think its not only that

[brittle plinth]

for ppl in my generation, Blizzard is synomous with quality and games made by gamers for gamers. That hasn't been true for decades but its hard to shake the first impression.

[bleak night]

how much of it is people being loyal to wow and how much of it is just every mmo release for the last two decades being ass

[brittle plinth]

Seeing the blizzard logo triggers some nostalgia for me

[bleak night]

like genuinely the last mmo i can think of releasing that can be considered big atm is like

eso

and that was a decade ago

[brittle plinth]

New World had a massive launch

[bleak night]

a lot of mmos have massive launches

[brittle plinth]

that korean game was kind of a mmo no?

Ark?

[bleak night]

its the cycle

[swift tinsel]

and my perception of blizz has changed to "it might be a good game but I know I'm going to get frustrated with it pretty quick"

[brittle plinth]

throwing in the ol WC2 CD and seeing the blizz logo 🧑‍🍳

[vale pine]

There are certain other factors to it.

• The Warcraft Univers (not thanks to world of wacraft tho) is a generally loved one, there are few others with similar large fanbases.
• Many alternative games are either too close to WoW or too diffrent to appeal.
• Many players are not MMORPG players but WoW palyers, so they will stick with the game even if the formula does not change or the content amount and quality is low.

[bleak night]

hype up your new upcoming mmo as the best thing ever>content creators ride the hype wave for a quick buck>game releases and everyone realizes after a month or two that its massively overhyped and does nothing good

[swift tinsel]

booting up the definitely-not-pirated WC3

Torchlight 2

[bleak night]

new world did have a fantastic leveling experience though, i'll give it that

[swift tinsel]

was a fun one

[vale pine]

titans quest is a good classic if you like arpgs

[fallow nimbus]

@vale pine this looks like it's working for topgear

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

What's that

[vale pine]

the changes should be in

so you should not need the overwrites

but

It still works:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wYpsbvjS8zx3P6jbFBvUFU

same in top gear

the warning is mostly to make sure you don't do things accidentally

[swift tinsel]

looks fun! I'll have to give it a try when I get home

now I wanna play Gauntlet too lol

[vale pine]

gauntlet was turn based iirc?

[swift tinsel]

they were hack n slashes

[vale pine]

oh okay

[swift tinsel]

I think it started as an arcade game but had some console ports in the early 2000's

would bike to the movie theater as a kid and play bc they had the cabinet there lol

[vale pine]

looks a lot like roguelike

[lilac stag]

It was a game that was coin op in the 80s

[swift tinsel]

yeah it kinda was similar

no permadeath

[lilac stag]

Green archer needs food badly

[swift tinsel]

well, depending

I played a lot of jester and knight lol

[vale pine]

I only know a few arcade games

Stoneage and Metal Slug are the ones i remember being the more popular ones

[swift tinsel]

oh man Metal Slug was so much fun haha

[vale pine]

its a bit of a shame that stone age did just die out, i found it to be a somewhat unique ip

[swift tinsel]

can't say I've ever heard of it

looks quirky

[vale pine]

think Caveman Ninja was the original title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEtrfSIQCPQ

there seems to be a reboot even

i only knew because we had this one (and probably still have) at one of our bath beaches.

[swift tinsel]

Idk if we have any arcade games around here besides the literal arcade bar another town up

[fallow nimbus]

did you know that you get cp from storm when you hit nothing but have sht stacks?

all these years of playing

[vale pine]

you don't get cp if you hit nothing (to my knowledge)

[solemn lance]

macro

[fallow nimbus]

you get your sht stacks as cp

when hitting nothing with storm in dornogal

[swift tinsel]

did you hit a critter

[fallow nimbus]

no

[swift tinsel]

hm, will have to look into it when I get home

[fallow nimbus]

test it, autohit something, make sure nothing is around and use storm

[vale pine]

interessting

will need to test that tomorrow ^^

[steel zinc]

aka being batman is fun 😄

[latent finch]

Works for me aswell.

to be fair it kinda does say that. But i always thought i would need to hit something for it

[swift tinsel]

right, since the attacks don't generate combo points unless they hit something

interesting development

[runic trail]

Did a 10 minute target dummy session, forgot to turn logs on

[quasi mantle]

[runic trail]

In terms of damage breakdown, this seems about right, yeah? Nothing seems massively out of place.

[swift tinsel]

looks pretty normal

[runic trail]

Sweet, thanks! Did have one cooldown window where I pressed flag and then my brain just completely forgot the rest of the sequence.

[swift tinsel]

happens to everyone lol

[runic trail]

But, its feeling a LOT more consistent

[swift tinsel]

nice! glad things are clicking more

[runic trail]

Its a fun spec, need to actually take it into content now, because executing it on a dummy and executing it in a raid are completely different things.

[plush roost]

Any ptr enjoyers check to see if our tierset works?

Hoping to play sub keys today on ptr

[swift tinsel]

will be able to look in like 30mins

was there a new build?

[hollow spear]

Crit on evis is too high, minus point for too much luck

[runic trail]

I'm in my sin gear, my stats are a bit fucked

At least for sub purposes

[hollow spear]

How much crit do you have rn? Absolute number.

[runic trail]

Not a massive issue but yeah, I've got like 15 sparks and a couple hundred gilded so I might just craft some replacements

I also have pacemaker so, that number will be boosted a fair bit of the time

2,400 vers

[hollow spear]

I am sitting at 10k crit rn#

[warm marlin]

i hit a dummy for 10mins because i was also curious, seems like your unseen blade/melee/shadowstrike especially are a bit high and sblades/evis/sectec/coup are a bit low

[hollow spear]

your haste is the issue, not the crit 😄

[runic trail]

Yeah, but I have the rik neck on at the moment so, I'm just gonna get a crafted neck

[warm marlin]

maybe munching a lot of sht procs in cds so you're shadowstriking more

or lack of mastery ya

[runic trail]

Cos thats 6,200 haste

[runic trail]

My mastery is a bit lower than I like it, but I'm geared for sin and the robot told me to stop taking mastery

And I trust the robot

[hollow spear]

For some reason my vanish sometimes resets details

[runic trail]

Did that for me a bunch on dummies, hit vanish, instantly back in combat before I could get a shadowstrike off

[hollow spear]

Stop being geared for sin mate

That's high treason

[runic trail]

I'm prob gonna send some crafts, if I craft some vers/mast necks and a vers/mast ring it came to like a 4% increase

3.8% even, but yeah.

[hollow spear]

Yeah, pretty decent

I like vers anyways

It adds up and gives some decent DR

I am at 12% DR just from vers

[runic trail]

Yeah, so gonna sort that out, but at least the rotation is looking like its in the right order.

I just need to not forget how to function when I press flag

[hollow spear]

yeah, that doesn't get affected by stats

[runic trail]

I also need to find a friendly shaman for a buff, because apparently that alters the feel of the spec a bit?

[warm marlin]

skyfury buff is quite large yes

especially over a 10 minute period it is going to amount to quite a bit of extra cdr/energy

[runic trail]

Yeah, so wouldn't mind trying dummies with that for a bit.

I really need to bite the bullet and take the sub spec into a raid, but I really don't want to do that without being comfortable.

[warm marlin]

over a span of 10 minutes from my little test it probably amounts to at least 1 extra dance worth of cdr

maybe 2 if unlucky

[swift tinsel]

precisely why I keep a shaman parked at the org dummy on an old separate account lol

get skyfury at lvl 16, gg

don't need an active sub

[hollow spear]

haha

Unrelated question: what do you guys have your spell queue window at?

[runic trail]

Whatever the default is

[warm marlin]

200 sub/assa 150 outlaw

[hollow spear]

I watched some videos telling me to put it back to 400 ms

Changed it, felt wrong

[warm marlin]

technically 250 is like the lowest you should go

depending on how fast you are mashing your buttons

[hollow spear]

I have it at 230 rn

3 ms ping

[warm marlin]

if i make it higher than 150/200 i start having odd things happen, which, while should not be the result of spellqueue, go away once i decrease it

just means you really have to press your stuff fast to queue it

[haughty mural]

how much do you have ?

[runic trail]

16,950

[warm marlin]

around 19000

[haughty mural]

Seems balanced with vers

[runic trail]

I just need to fix my 2000 vers probably

[warm marlin]

yea that would be a pretty big issue

[runic trail]

I'm just gonna send a few crafts and I'll be chilling

[warm marlin]

im back at the point where pacemaker proc + alc chaos rolling crit can make my maghar racial roll crit but sims don't want me to swap so

[haughty mural]

Im a Vers flask enjoyer

Critical chain might also sim higher for me

[warm marlin]

the extra stats in the tfd triple dance opener in lust though

[hollow spear]

from alchemical + tempered?

[warm marlin]

ye

[haughty mural]

True

But cba seeing a haste proc

But I should swap some time to alchemical for bigger bursts

[hollow spear]

are the updated belt values already implemented or do I have to override still?

[swift tinsel]

ptr down?

[patent lichen]

REEEEEE no sub content

[clever delta]

well maybe they fixed tier set

[swift tinsel]

fingers crossed, logging in

[runic trail]

Hopefully!

[clever delta]

yeah its fixed

tier set working so i can play sub on raid test

[runic trail]

Hell yeah!

[swift tinsel]

did they change the buff at all

[wary cloak]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[runic trail]

I thought it'd take them another week

[steel zinc]

Tier ist fixed

hype

[swift tinsel]

time to go through the bug list

[clever delta]

two coupes one dance not bad

[swift tinsel]

still wastes a stack tho

[clever delta]

well

[swift tinsel]

but at least the cdr portion is working

of the coup

[steel zinc]

of unseen?

your sure?

[warm marlin]

holy moly

cant wait to test

[swift tinsel]

yes

will check some more, but had a reset proc during 5sec buff

and when I cast 2nd coup I had zero

[clever delta]

bro this extra cdr feel so good

[swift tinsel]

which is why I'm asking for the 4pc to be a separate buff

but yeah the cdr is tidy

[steel zinc]

makes the spec way faster. I wouldnt be supprised if the current tier 4p would turn into a hero talent in 12.0

[clever delta]

very true

it would not be first time they got inspired with talent change by tier set

what kind of trinket i play anway, the stacking one and what else

[swift tinsel]

1.5min dungeon or sigil

[steel zinc]

I assume the new house of cards from the new dungeon and then the spymaster

[swift tinsel]

this sigil

not priory

[clever delta]

the new hoc is not avaible isnt it

[swift tinsel]

its from the dungeon that's testable today

[steel zinc]

well you can now grind it in the new dungeon in testing 😄

[limpid sage]

Oh are you guys on the ptr

[clever delta]

oh shit

[swift tinsel]

yeah tier works

[limpid sage]

I thought changes were out

[swift tinsel]

ds bug still makes that set feel bad

[clever delta]

tbh just play pacemaker 😄

[steel zinc]

does GB work with coup?

[swift tinsel]

the energy cost part?

[haughty mural]

Wait they fixed it that fast ?

[swift tinsel]

the extra coups in flag feel real nice

not 100% sure on double dance between each flag, will need to play a bit more

[haughty mural]

Are we fast as fuck boys now ?

[steel zinc]

ya

[swift tinsel]

also the extra sod uptime for shadowcraft feels pretty necessary for non-flag dances

[steel zinc]

Its def faster and you can just send more cds on cds and not worry to much about cdr

also holding coup imo doesnt make sense except its right before dance just send it

[hollow spear]

Hell yeah

[haughty mural]

I need to install ptr tomorrow and test

[swift tinsel]

holding a double coup for flag is juicy as fuck

bc you also stack sht so you can omegablast

I'm liking this a lot lol

[haughty mural]

Still no indicator on 2p resets right ?

[swift tinsel]

nah its the same as thousand cuts resets

[steel zinc]

But you can get now triple dance in the opener

[swift tinsel]

you don't know you have it until you see it proc

[haughty mural]

Does unseen blade truck now as aswell ?

[steel zinc]

With shamy buff you get easy 3 sectechs into the flag window

[warm marlin]

you can probably 4x sectec in opener with triple dance right

[haughty mural]

I see

[swift tinsel]

critting for 2mil

on a 4:30 quick test

[steel zinc]

yeah 4 is like getting rn on live 3 which is more lucky.

but 3 is np

[warm marlin]

with tfd it will for sure be easy

[haughty mural]

Sandbag a bit more pls

[swift tinsel]

we're gonna get nerfed anyways gonna have some fun while I can

[haughty mural]

Before they gut it again

[steel zinc]

yeah ofc tfd is like cheating kekw

but idk if we play tfd

depends on fight length I guess

[swift tinsel]

but yeah only gripe is EB waste during 5sec, they fix that and the set is golden

[warm marlin]

tfd stonks are so high rn

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah I can see it being bis in pretty much any fight length

outside of like

[steel zinc]

I like WM picks up at like 3 min before that tdf is better

[swift tinsel]

15mins

[steel zinc]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

maybe exaggeration but still

[steel zinc]

in the opener its insane

[swift tinsel]

def agree stonks are high

[warm marlin]

tfd sims better on 5mins for me

[steel zinc]

on live?

[warm marlin]

yes

[swift tinsel]

yeah it was originally like 3-4ish but Eleem fixed stuff in sims

[steel zinc]

thought was still 3min

[warm marlin]

with predisorienti

[swift tinsel]

now its closer to 5

[steel zinc]

oh nice

ok so every boss except last 2

[runic trail]

I chose the right time to try out sub

[warm marlin]

meh i played it on mugzee too

[bleak night]

nerfed first week

trust

[swift tinsel]

I'll do a bunch of dummy logging tonight and get a better idea

[hazy breach]

Idk depends on if we go into finality+dB for more coup damage

Then tfd is really hard to get usually

[runic trail]

It's fine probs my guild only hits mechanics walls, not damage ones

[warm marlin]

double finality would be cool too

[steel zinc]

testing that rn and removing one symbols charge

[hollow spear]

How would the tree look if we did that?

[steel zinc]

since you have so many cds already

[hollow spear]

Like the rookery build?

[warm marlin]

no way you can remove 3x symbols with all the extra cdr

thats cooked

[swift tinsel]

drop danse time

[steel zinc]

LOL

ok omega cook remove shadowcraft because why not

[hollow spear]

Would make coup less annoying

[steel zinc]

or sth like this

[runic trail]

Remove it during ptr to hide our power level

[steel zinc]

Is the plan

[runic trail]

Then just turn up week 1 and annihilate things

[hollow spear]

I mean, if we look at other specs' tier set it generally looks like they're going for broke

So it's not like our stuff is out of the ordinary

[swift tinsel]

isn't enh like 40something percent

buff

[hollow spear]

This season we're also not cursed by having a turbo trinket like transmitter

[warm marlin]

well they gutted enh 2p

[steel zinc]

yeah

[hollow spear]

Making us look like gods

When we're not 😅

[steel zinc]

also dh tier set is to busted close to 25%

but thats also current tier is omega ds

[hollow spear]

They'll definitely have to do some tuning

[swift tinsel]

good lol

[steel zinc]

yeah but first of all I am happy that not like in 11.1 we have a working tier set during ptr cycle

[hollow spear]

Still unsure how they'll deal with fatebound tier set for sin

[steel zinc]

thats a

[steel zinc]

that shit looks omega busted

[runic trail]

Yeah, props to them for the quick fix

[steel zinc]

played a bit with fatebound

I mean cds are a bit out of wack but its pretty op

[swift tinsel]

haven't touched sin on ptr yet, might give it a go tonight

[hazy breach]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1383138415872049232/image.png?ex=685c3407&is=685ae287&hm=51eefcbbfc51888ede059a73a72277dd9f5f73a1ac48e0152ada949153d1de59&

[hollow spear]

Could lead to dry dances

[hazy breach]

This is the best current db build

Which is like 0.6% behind or so

[hollow spear]

On 5 min?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[hollow spear]

Dang

Didn't know it was that close

[warm marlin]

no triple symbols with extra cdr

[swift tinsel]

1x Death Perception makes me uncomfortable

lol

[tender frost]

doesn't fatebound still do 0 in aoe

[hollow spear]

By they way: how do we sim pre disorienting strikes?

[hazy breach]

I think ive posted it here so you could probably look through my mountain of messages for it

(im on my phone so cant copy it for you)

[hollow spear]

Okay, will have a look tomorrow when I'm not on my phone 😅

[warm marlin]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=supercharge_1,first=0,cooldown=999999
raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=supercharge_2,first=0,cooldown=999999
raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=disorienting_strikes,first=0,cooldown=999999

[swift tinsel]

I’m sure it’s searchable

[hazy breach]

Cant copy from my saved simc profiles

[warm marlin]

throw in expert mode

well that is also presymbols

but if ur doing disorienting might as well

[hexed sluice]

Give em tricks

[swift tinsel]

Not still on vacation are you

[hollow spear]

Pre disorienting is still a little unreliable for me, but eh

[clever delta]

surely we dont play that cooked db build

[hollow spear]

WTB pre disorienting baseline

[steel zinc]

what exactly do you mean? Kinda like dh prestcking cycle?

[warm marlin]

trueeee

[swift tinsel]

It doesn’t have a duration so you can Sectech and save the 2x ub

[hollow spear]

You hit sectec on trash before pull and don't backstab after

[warm marlin]

this is my guess personally but maybe PE is just goated

[hollow spear]

2 free ub on pull

[swift tinsel]

Ugh PV

[hazy breach]

Ye pe is really good

[steel zinc]

how much % is that?

[hazy breach]

Imp sht sucks ass

But pe is like 2x the alternative

[hollow spear]

Not much, gets stronger with tfd afaik

[swift tinsel]

Make imp sht choice node with shadow focus

[hazy breach]

.7% or something like that

On a 5 min

[swift tinsel]

PE into swift death

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Might just be what i linked but 3x symbols instead of db

Well see

[steel zinc]

ty

[warm marlin]

at least we can test 4p now even if its not on simc

[hazy breach]

Brother i wrote that like 3 days ago, ofc im still away

🇮🇹

[swift tinsel]

😂 missing all the non-changes

Ah very nice

[steel zinc]

also a 4p that is imo fun

[swift tinsel]

I’m actually pretty excited to play around with timings now that it works lol

All the more reason to stay away from cursed DS set

[warm marlin]

I will test pooling like you have never seen before

[swift tinsel]

Dude I literally auto attacked for 20sec sitting on double coup into flag

[steel zinc]

spec is so fast rn idk where to pool and if its worth

[swift tinsel]

And I’m not afraid to double that

[clever delta]

the biggest winner for me is not playing 4set from S2

fucking hate that shit

[swift tinsel]

Wym gamba fiesta was stellar design

That you could entirely ignore and was basically indistinguishable from playing around it

[clever delta]

i dont need to stress about it is super chill

all i care about is to not use coupe outside the dance now

[slim anchor]

Should I be trying to spread nimble flurry in aoe pulls?

[clever delta]

its funny how were are excited about fixed ptr tier set when we play assa on progress anyway :))

[lilac stag]

you mean outlaw

pirate tier inc

[steel zinc]

maybe

I could see with this tierset pooling an option and during pull get to 3 stacks of unseenblade and some shadowtech stacks

could be some oldschool stuff

[clever delta]

coup go hard

[hazy breach]

Huh

[swift tinsel]

Can’t really spread it

Unless you can find a way to be in multiple places at once

[steel zinc]

you just do damage to one target (mostly the one with the highest hp) and blast roughly above 7 targets its worth to bp

[slim anchor]

I wasn’t sure if I should be get it on one target and move on to another target once it is applied. I’m only asking cuz like when I play demo I have to spread doom around in a similar way so I was just curious if I’m suppose to be doing that as well

[swift tinsel]

Ah, nope. It’s just automatic

No maintenance required to nimble besides keeping up flawless form buff on yourself

[hazy breach]

Its not on the target

Its a buff on you

[hollow spear]

With outlaw's damage profile, I'm not sure if we'll ever have an outlaw tier

[steel zinc]

Good spec should be a tank spec

[swift tinsel]

That would be a hilarious move

Killing spree revamp, hype is high, BAM tank spec

[hollow spear]

Could you already compare the average coups per 5 min with and without tier?

[swift tinsel]

Can probably compare logs

Or just take a retail log and double the coups to get a rough idea

And add a few more from the extra UB

I’m gonna look at it later

also, EB insurance would be nice

But is what it is

[bleak night]

geico might have that

[hollow spear]

Yeah, extra from two set and extra from cycling through sectecs more quickly

[swift tinsel]

Might record video of testing to better check how many stacks get wasted

Bc I’m curious to see

And it might be worth mentioning in the impressions article

[warm marlin]

theres no way you can consistently double dance between flags

maybe like 2x dance 2x dance 1x dance

or no skyfury is really just destroying my cdr

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I couldn’t get it to double either, gonna try with skyfury and see if that’s the key

Even then I think it might be super tight

[wicked urchin]

raid buff is next week right?

[swift tinsel]

Idk if it’s possible with 1/2 death perception

Even with skyfury

@warm marlin Are you testing with pre-disorienting

Or no prepull shenanigans

[warm marlin]

nah i just sent it

my raid time is soon

[heady gulch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sly shore]

is tier fixed

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah it is

Coup can now be cast a second time but still blocks EB from stacking for the buff duration

[sly shore]

epic

DS bug all over again

can't escape it no matter what hero talent you play

[bleak night]

it ok they surely fix it

they would never leave in a bug like that for sub

[swift tinsel]

lmao

meanwhile DS bug still strong and almost a year old

[bleak night]

actually though i think this one does have a good chance of being fixed

bc they're already looking at outlaw and how killing spree interacts with trickster

[swift tinsel]

I don't think its a bug for 4pc

its just the way the buff is designed

[bleak night]

well yeah bugfix maybe wrong word

but change it to be nicer

[swift tinsel]

yeah, that's what I've been hoping for

switch from 4 stacks of EB on a 5sec buff to a separate buff that enables Coup without affecting EB so it can still stack during 5sec buff

because it 100% eats resets/procs

which isn't great

maybe the 30% UB damage buff from the 2pc is to offset that lol

even though you lose Coup casts over time

[bleak night]

belt

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-w-gus-fring-gus-gustavo-deleted-gif-25440636

[warm marlin]

@hazy breach vexie is just not possible

we push at the wrong time every week and just take forever to kill

[lilac stag]

time!

[warm marlin]

the pirate alt is getting mugzee this week

[lilac stag]

Hopefully gally done this week

I ran pirate in lfr rep run. Gally is hilarious. Just stand still for KS then randomly teleport

[swift tinsel]

losing ~7-8 UB per 5mins after a couple tests, gonna look closer after dinner

[tender frost]

anyone know why sectec dam would be significantly lower on log than details

[warm marlin]

are you comparing a log/details of cauldron, bandit, or mugzee

[tender frost]

cauldron

yessir

[warm marlin]

if you are a long distance away from the logger (on any fight, but really only cauldron this tier) akaari's soul will yoink your sectec damage

have to log yourself or be on the same side as the logger

[short radish]

log yourself before you rob yourself
#GripIsNOTaRaidBuff

[tender frost]

thats mindblowing yeesh lol

ty

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tender frost]

follow up question lets say i was logging myself but the other is already public is it gg

[warm marlin]

nah just also make yours public

[tender frost]

turned my 83 into a 97 bless you

[swift tinsel]

servers do be shittin themselves

[warm marlin]

picture this

sprocket buyer

tell them to tag and jump off

they do not jump off

and run around knocking people around for the first 45s

legit just sprinting around the boss

[tribal blade]

@hazy breach so this just happened

[warm marlin]

and we limp to the finish line and kill it anyway

[lilac stag]

I bet one of your range paid them to do that.

[warm marlin]

[coarse hound]

Do we still need to paste those new coefficeints to SIM the belt properly?

[tribal blade]

new reset, new no sub notes 🙂

keep the streak alive

[hazy breach]

Unluck

[tribal blade]

although this also happened in the same vault

teehee

[hazy breach]

Skyfury is roughly 8% more CP, so its fairly noticeable

[worldly portal]

i didnt notice i kept collecting mastery

[swift tinsel]

without skyfury I'm like

30 seconds off from being able to double dance between flags

need to dial in a bit

[tribal blade]

one of the worst things about playing w/o skyfury for me is i can feel it in the rotation

[swift tinsel]

also 1/2 death perception kinda works

[tribal blade]

and it makes me mega tilted

[swift tinsel]

which I didn't expect

[tribal blade]

and i play worse

[tribal blade]

in DB build?

[swift tinsel]

nah just 2/2 finality

[tribal blade]

ah i see

[swift tinsel]

toying with this atm

ignore SF

lol

[tribal blade]

the last time i tried using 1/2 depth i was capping dance charges in aoe

[swift tinsel]

tfd makes opener feel great

ah I'm just doing st testing atm

1/2 feels a little less smooth bc you don't have that buffer charge and you end up waiting maybe a second or two for like the 2:20 dance but the rest are actually decently tidy

[tribal blade]

i feel like 2/2 depth lets you have more control over where you can send dances kinda

[swift tinsel]

a bit yeah, with the extra cdr from tier set though you feel less restricted on dance usage

you aren't like

swimming in dance cdr but the extra bump helps smooth things out

almost like adding extra cdr to deepening would be nice...

I'm gonna play around with 1/2 DP but I'm liking it so far

might give PV+DB a shot too

the inev uptime though helping fill out cp during non-flag dances for the 2nd coup feels nice though

so I'm hesitant to drop it for pv to be able to go DB

bc you def feel the energy bottleneck trying to send 2nd coup at 6+ so sometimes I just send with w/e cp I have at the time

[tribal blade]

i think most likely we're still locked into our 1 talent build

which kinda sucks

[swift tinsel]

Yeah its def possible, need to see how big 2/2 finality and/or db boosts the extra coups

tfd though is a big winner imo

and its possible it beats WM in even longer than 5min fights because it helps your opener even more

[tribal blade]

oh i forgot finality buffs coup

[swift tinsel]

yeah it gens and consumes it

[zenith prism]

just swap inevit and PV

PV really sucks

[swift tinsel]

if you drop inev you can't drop deeper daggers to get db

[tender frost]

does sectec hit adds if you cast on gally during intermissions

[swift tinsel]

otherwise you cut off dark shadow/danse/shadowcraft

PV is very stinky and I don't want to take it ever

[zenith prism]

if PV is under WM, our talented tree will be much more reasonable

[swift tinsel]

so I'm annoyed its essential to get db without sacrificing both points in death perception

[warm marlin]

no

[tender frost]

kms

in game

[swift tinsel]

even if pv and inev swapped

I would be quite happy

[tribal blade]

yup our talent tree is so cursed

[swift tinsel]

unless that's what you meant by under wm

[tribal blade]

it's terrible

[swift tinsel]

the pathing is just

not it

[tribal blade]

you can't really maneuver around

[zenith prism]

that's what I mean

[swift tinsel]

Like imagine if PE/WS fed into Swift Death instead of Shrouded in Darkness

Imma photoshop my own tree that makes sense in my mind lol

[zenith prism]

personally I love 100% speed

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah its really useful for sure, I just think its in a strange spot

or rather, it and swift death's proximity is odd

[zenith prism]

totally agree

[swift tinsel]

maybe swap it with quick decisions

[zenith prism]

also there are too many SL conduit shit

[swift tinsel]

100%

[zenith prism]

need rework

[swift tinsel]

or azerite traits

personal talent removal wishlist: shadow focus, imp shadow techniques, warning signs (unless we get haste interactions but please no), weaponmaster, pv, lingering shadow, goremaws, night terrors/terrifying pace, shuriken tornado

Find Weakness

which would then open up shadowed finishers to be something else like full shadow damage finishers during dance or always

which would require nimble flurry to not be mitigated by armor

otherwise its cursed

[zenith prism]

they would just change nimble flurry to 70% if it's not ideal

[swift tinsel]

yeah that could def work too

[swift tinsel]

okay so pre-disorient pre-supercharge tfd opener feels fuckin gnarly

holy

with 1/2 DP you wait on sod for 5-7 seconds sometimes but besides that its not notable worse gameplaywise

but the extra coup damage is notable

[steel horizon]

how does the cdr from the extra coup work? does it just cast as if you had the same # of combo points as the 1st coup?

[swift tinsel]

you have to build cp to cast it

[steel horizon]

ah

so the proc just stays

[swift tinsel]

which can get annoying when its outside dance

[nova cradle]

ofc this guy would know, guy never hits gally

[warm marlin]

[swift tinsel]

yeah, essentially

you get a 5 second buff that's just 4 stacks of escalating blade

[steel horizon]

idk why i was thinking like it was a double coup back to back without having to generate cp again lol

to good to be true

[swift tinsel]

been noticing ~7-8 wasted EB stacks so you lose roughly 2 reg/2 bonus coups per 5mins

[steel horizon]

honestly as long as the extra bit of dance cdr is enough to where you dont have to delay your flag/sb for those times where you have to move off the boss and you're not generating cp

sucks when you have to move off for a bit and flag/sb come up but your second charge of dance is still at like 40-45 seconds

[swift tinsel]

self buffed no pot kinda scuffed pull

[chrome palm]

Man, I’m glad I’m not learning this now for the first time

[warm marlin]

I did see some of you casting on boss

[chrome palm]

Most ethical rogue

[warm marlin]

you do actually 0 boss damage if you're full casting sectec on adds though

[chrome palm]

My guildies thought it was very funny how much damage sin/sub gets on that 7 min spawn

[warm marlin]

our bm hunter was dead for 90 full seconds and still beat me on boss damage

[chrome palm]

Are they still perma boss targeters

[warm marlin]

think so idk

[chrome palm]

I just remember their cleave being so bad they just tunnel vision the boss

[short radish]

fuck this is why i lost.

[chrome palm]

I just want a full reclear man, my gm keeps calling raid after last 3 so he can play poe 😭

[warm marlin]

[chrome palm]

Lmao

It’s funny that

The 3 min spawn I seem to do about as much as the previous spawn

Even though it’s just double dances instead of full blades cds

[warm marlin]

you need to cast that one on adds too btw

when you cast on gally the clones use the center of his hitbox to cleave

[chrome palm]

You mean the 4 min spawn?

[warm marlin]

no 3mins

[chrome palm]

No fucking way hahaha

[warm marlin]

if your tanks arent perfect grouping it super fast

your sectec will miss half the mobs

[chrome palm]

Ok then

[warm marlin]

again though

your boss damage will be turbo inted

like you cast more sectecs on adds than boss

[chrome palm]

Shhh

But

That increases the likelihood of seeing 7 min add spawn

If boss dam is lower

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-gif-27108854

@warm marlin I wanted to ask

Since you like to hold vanish

Do you think it’s worth to keep spamming backstab at max cp instead of just autoing

For UB and winning streak

[warm marlin]

yep

calculate about how much dance cdr you get from 2 full cp finishers and how long until you'll be flagging, go to 7cp, spam backstab until about 5s left, rupture vanish ss flag rupture

[chrome palm]

Or like do the vanish thing if you have coup guaranteed or like 4-5 winning streak

Aha

[shut ridge]

i would certainly never do this

[warm marlin]

no way all of you were sectecing boss

[shut ridge]

i knew about it a little while back

but i just forget

[chrome palm]

I kinda thought I wasn’t gonna get trolled by blizzard but

[shut ridge]

because i am [REDACTED]

i am in full autopilot until next tier

[chrome palm]

At least at this point I’m glad the clones don’t all fall down the gallywix hole

[warm marlin]

i think its near finished on gallywix anyway

with extra 3% i expect we start skipping 7min adds soon

[chrome palm]

It’s time to start tricksing your ret paladin

[warm marlin]

maybe there's a world you can recover by inversing the 3min 4min cds and flag the 3min double dance the 4min

but the 4mins just die insta

[chrome palm]

Pay off a guildie to accidentally die

[warm marlin]

cauldron is also cooked

we killed before my 3rd flag today

and we had a buyer and -1 spread cleave

near exact 3min kill time on rik, vexie, cauldron, 4:30 near exact on bandit, no more 7 min adds on gallywix

truly joever

[chrome palm]

did you try sectech as first finisher in dance? feel like it leaves more time to get both coups in dance

[chrome palm]

i kinda like the idea of holding the third dance after opener to chain dances back to back with new tier set

since you sit on so many stacks of flawless form from double coup

if you hold until next recharge is ~20s it feels pretty good

[jaunty heath]

so uh

for critical chain do you just finish the delve or you gotta do something in there

[neon drum]

is crit chain the disc we use for m+?

[short radish]

finish the delve

[short radish]

[jaunty heath]

tyvm good sir

[random hare]

Whoever didnt try the new sub tier set be ready to not be able to cast the 2nd coup due to low energy

Amazing gameplay ngl

And i thought s2 tier set was so bad

Then we get double coup shit fest

[sick dagger]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[random hare]

💀

[sick dagger]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[short radish]

for some reason

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[short radish]

i thought the coup would also be free to cast

[random hare]

No

Unless ptr had weird ass lag, i had many situations where i couldn’t cast 2nd coup due to low energy

Ofcourse that only happens outside of cds

But ngl maybe we play a different build anyway

[haughty mural]

Is relentless strikes working properly with coup on ptr ?

Also thought it’ll be free

Haven’t had time to jump in ptr yet

[runic sequoia]

Pressing coup once is already cringe because the delay DMG eating cold blood and shadowcraft so I'm sure 2x coup is very fun

[haughty mural]

How is your coup eating cold blood ?

[runic sequoia]

If you coup into your cb secret technique

[haughty mural]

[runic sequoia]

Just press coup and then cold blood after you should see cb be used

Vs doing reg evis into cb

[runic trail]

Is that a thing? I assumed cold blood would work on your next casted ability and not things that are already in motion

[runic sequoia]

If it isn't a thing I'm smoking crayons

[warm marlin]

I am quite certain it is a thing as well

gotta wait a bit to press cold blood

[runic sequoia]

The delayed part of coup needs to go

Didnt they change outlaws

[warm marlin]

no but it’s not as annoying there

outlaw doesn’t have delayed sht refunds

[runic sequoia]

That is the worst

Queueing builder in SB

But sht refunds perfect time after coup to screw you

14 cp builder np

[short radish]

the design philosophy of sub is apparently "delayed abilities"

[vale pine]

well kind of yes

but the way you word it sounds a lot worse than in reality

when designing combat, you only can do so much to make classes distinct

Which in reality means you usually have on a very abstract level one of two concepts

[hollow spear]

I can see us pooling energy for a sec to yank out double coup consistently

[vale pine]

You either only have little cooldowns, weak cooldowns or very short ones.
In which case you just use everything on cooldown

or you have impactful cooldowns, which will lead to stacking them

yet this is not either or but usually a mix

subtlety is more on the 2nd option, and it means we benefit the most from trying to stack cooldowns as much as possible

[short radish]

nah i meant delayed as in "Press button and damage comes out 1 second later"

[vale pine]

oh

[short radish]

sectech

and coup

[vale pine]

well thats more or less relics of the past

secret technique was designed this way back at the start of BfA to replace DfA

[hollow spear]

It's criminal is what it is

[vale pine]

DfA was a multi part attack, and this lead to interesting gameplay

so this concept was kept, however secret was way easier to understand

[hollow spear]

Weren't there also some cases were bosses could just move away from your shadows?

[vernal hull]

@runic trail got 5th on mugzee

Sub kinda lit

[runic trail]

Hell yeah

I'll actually try sub in heroic raid on Friday, so it is time to panic, fuck up and then die

[vernal hull]

I did mythic and I played like shit on gally

First time though

I'm guessing wowanalyzer doesn't work for sub

It says I didn't use shadow blades or flag right once

[runic trail]

Apparently it's unsupported

[vernal hull]

Figures

[short radish]

it is not

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[vernal hull]

Thanks buddy

[short radish]

no wokkers

stay stabby

[hollow spear]

So the perma double dance between bursts dream is not alive with new tier?

Or is it in skyfury prison?

[warm marlin]

im gonna hit dummies a lot soon

maybe recruit a friend to give me shaman buff

[hollow spear]

Yeah need a skyfury slave

Dummy sessions without it are cursed

[short radish]

its so shit that if you drop party

you lose the buff

[candid mural]

Any idea where to get daggers on ptr?

[hollow spear]

Need someone who's just as degenerate as us

[warm marlin]

pvp vendor

[candid mural]

Ty

[runic trail]

When are buff scrolls coming back, pls, I beg

[warm marlin]

coup is absolutely blasting with 2x finality

[vernal hull]

Ur the famous bingus

[warm marlin]

idk about famous

[vernal hull]

Legend

Famous to me

[candid mural]

What point do you skip for double finality?

[warm marlin]

dd and inev -> pv finality

eleem suggested PE over tfd and rs earlier that i might try as well

but im kind of a tfd enjoyer now

[tribal blade]

coup doing that much is wild

[zenith prism]

huge

but we should compare comp+evis to estimate the buff

since it just turn some evis into coup damagr

[runic trail]

Huh, I've been running a build using the rotten instead of finality, I may need to sim that to see if I should swap

[warm marlin]

im not super impressed by the damage so far

earlier on live i was doing like 2.1 on dummy no buffs and im doing like maybe 3M now at 715 ilvl

[zenith prism]

Yeah just checkout our damage profile with new tier

[hollow spear]

What was the jump from s1 to s2?

[runic trail]

639 to 678 initially I think

[hollow spear]

What did we do on the dummy end of s1?

[runic trail]

At least pre turbo boost

Oh I thought you meant ilvl. In my defence, I'm uncaffeinated

[vale pine]

no, you would naturally not rly get in such situations

[hollow spear]

Decent defence. I currently don't let caffeine enter my sacred temple.

[vernal hull]

Can I enter your sacred temple

[chrome palm]

I remember doing ~1.2m unbuffed on dummy

[runic trail]

I probably drink too much but its fine probably.

[hollow spear]

Maybe with a good gally parse

[runic trail]

Who needs breakfast when you can sub it out for a healthy mix of caffeine and nicotine

[vernal hull]

😢

Maybe next week

I learn to hold cds

[warm marlin]

it also seems its genuinely possible to proc coup outside of cds, coup at 6cp, then be unable to build back up to 6 before the 2nd coup expires

obviously you would just send the coup before then but it doesnt feel great

[runic trail]

I need a decent gally parse on sin but the adds just got insta deleted by others. So it's just, OKAY, I HIT BOSS I GUESS

[chrome palm]

Sin has really good burst on gallywix for the 3 and 7 min add spawns

Imo

Can try cloaking the giga whatever and starting your ramp early

And then nuking 4 min set

[warm marlin]

5 min dummy on ptr: 403 applications of flawless form
5 min bandit kill on live: 164 applications of flawless form

[runic trail]

Yeah I just... Didn't hold at all.

[chrome palm]

Wonder how much of that is from the 2pc

[hollow spear]

Maybe we arrived at the dawn of energy pooling?

[chrome palm]

Better off pooling sht lol

[warm marlin]

idk its probably the skyfury thing

energy shouldnt really feel different

[hollow spear]

Could be

[runic trail]

But yeah, it was the prog kill not the reclear, so there's time to optimise. I was fully focused on just surviving and killing that goddamn goblin

[hollow spear]

On the dummy I'm sometimes too energy starved to cast 8 globals during dance

Crazy

[chrome palm]

Having to cast 1 feint with tfd up in a dungeon

-100000 globals

[warm marlin]

is there a set of dummies I can log

[hollow spear]

Can you get your 2nd sectec into tfd if you pre disorienting with new 4p?

On live it kinda overlaps and clones usually hit during 2nd dance

[warm marlin]

with tfd almost certainly

er

with skyfury

i can do it sometimes without

skyfury + lust definitely

playing tfd is maybe a bit dubious with the spymaster trinket though

[zenith prism]

I use a different opener for tfd with no shadoeblades

it's like ss-rupture-sd-backstab-evis-ss-sod-sectech

[hollow spear]

Why? Because of the backloaded nature of the trinket?

I'd argue we could still use it as 90s trinket

There's quite some options to sim

[warm marlin]

well tfd specifically only affects the first flag blades of the fight

and you have 0 spymaster stacks for that one

so ur basically -1 trinket

[hollow spear]

That's true

Will it be the cursed double active season?

[keen dome]

Maybe! We return to Dragonflight-era

[hollow spear]

New hoc on pull, spymaster directly after - hoc on 2nd flag - spymaster on 3rd flag

Maybe spymaster at 20s to get 2 stacks

Big value triple dance

[warm marlin]

i dont think pooling even matters

a 7cp coup already refunds like 60 energy

its really just that even assuming you go to exactly 100 energy after coup

thats enough for like 3 backstabs at most before the 5s timer runs out

[vale pine]

symbols and shadowcraft gives you enough energy

[hollow spear]

Ig that could lead to us ignoring the cp rules

[vale pine]

so you don't rly pool

[hollow spear]

Use 2nd cp before it runs out, no matter the cp

[warm marlin]

ye we were talking about coups outside on cds on ptr

have noticed you dont really have the energy always to build to 6 before the 5s timer runs out

and if you greed an extra backstab and dont regen the energy to press coup itself in time you just lose the coup 💀

[vale pine]

oh ye

[hollow spear]

Greed kinda costly there

[warm marlin]

for sure you just press at low cp

[hollow spear]

Pissing away free cp and flawless stacks

This season "just one little evis" -> tier set stacks gone.
Next season "just one little backstab" -> 2nd coup gone.

[warm marlin]

coup def hitting

28 coups vs. 34 eviscerates that pull

hmm

[tulip badger]

Maybe its time to goremaw so we have energy + min 3cp?

[tribal blade]

that just made me want to put a shotgun in my mouth

[warm marlin]

goremaw is soo expensive

you would have to give up a point in finality thats amping all the coups or a symbols charge or something

[lucid jackal]

I meaaaaan

Finality aint that good

What if its goremaws season

[warm marlin]

coup is slapping though

[short radish]

goremaw so we can send back to back coups 👀

[lucid jackal]

Exaaaaaactly

[warm marlin]

actually

goremaw wouldn't waste unseen blades would it

[short radish]

now thats a cook

someone fire it up

[warm marlin]

yeah someone else can test that one

[tribal blade]

it wouldn't no

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

this will truly be the most cursed timeline if we play goremaws

but hacha will be happy 😉

[warm marlin]

no way

[zenith prism]

unseen blade = shadow blade

[keen dome]

What would you even drop to take it though

[short radish]

deez nuts

[warm marlin]

finality def

[keen dome]

yeah I guess finality for raid but M+? rotten?

[tribal blade]

fuck it drop shadowcraft

i'm doing some lashga cooking here

[zenith prism]

fuck find weakness

[warm marlin]

sub in m+

[zenith prism]

always rotten for M+

[tribal blade]

assassination is about to have absolutely bonkers prio and burst in M+

i haven't been on ptr yet, but i can smell it

[keen dome]

It can HAPPEN, stranger things have happened!!!

[zenith prism]

maybe finality for some dungeons where you don't BP

that's possible

e.g TOP

[tribal blade]

next season is a pretty high target count one

mostly

[zenith prism]

then rotten for sure

and rip outlaw

[warm marlin]

this tierset is also pretty cringe for aoe i think

like youre going into a pack

and casting sectec coup coup

when are you casting bp

on large aoe

[tribal blade]

mm so it's forcing the target cap even more

[warm marlin]

also i cannot get logs to work on ptr

its just logging random people aoeing near me

instead of my dummy

i might be stupid

[keen dome]

Found my favourite kind of guys for the day

[tribal blade]

try to sneak in there, yellow is close enough to green

[keen dome]

Haha

[runic trail]

Silly keys are the best keys

[keen dome]

I did do a all monk + rogue key in DF that ruled

[runic trail]

Sometimes on my druid I'll set up random all tank keys

We don't need a healer

Don't need damage

[hollow spear]

@runic trail aren't you the resident expert on dummy logging rn?

[warm marlin]

the french man assisted me

i didnt click include overkill

[hollow spear]

Ah yeah

[runic trail]

Considering it took me 10 attempts to get it to work....

Absolutely not.

[warm marlin]

time to untalent sectec

[runic trail]

I just went to the dummies in silvermoon, nobody there

[hollow spear]

But you got it to work!

[tribal blade]

we're gonna have to apologize to lashga for his untalenting sectec cook

[warm marlin]

!

[runic trail]

I don't know how but it vaguely works I think

[tribal blade]

also holy unseen blade doing work there too

[warm marlin]

ye im almost wondering if

pressing ss with a guaranteed unseen blade

is better than eviscerating on 6

[hollow spear]

Until he buys boosts end of this season. Again.

[warm marlin]

in dance

as last global

unseen blade kind of blasting

[hollow spear]

True

[tribal blade]

is unseen blade fully buffed by dance

never actually wondered that before

[warm marlin]

should point out this is with the PE cook and not tfd

[tribal blade]

still hurts my soul to see PV talented

[keen dome]

Hate PV

[tribal blade]

this build looks really similar to ones we ran during DF

just missing DB

[keen dome]

Yeah, it does

[warm marlin]

in full cds coup is almost hitting as hard as sectec

hmm

14M cast vs. 17

[hollow spear]

Spec goremaw, I dare you

[warm marlin]

i would rather cast coup at 1cp

[tribal blade]

if nimble was soft instead of hard capped sub would be banging in aoe

[hollow spear]

Can't be nimble when you're hard 🤔

[tribal blade]

iseewhatyoudidthere

[hollow spear]

But you'd be banging for sure

Ok, I'll see myself out

[tribal blade]

that could legit be the one change they made to sub to make it more viable

in keys

[hollow spear]

We'll slowly turn into outlaw chat

Unhinged cap conversations

[vale pine]

target caps are a bit weird tbh

[tribal blade]

@warm marlin have you tested fatebound sin?

hoping it's not on par with sub as a 1:30 rogue spec

[vale pine]

could see this for raiding, for m+ we probably still want rotten

[warm marlin]

not a huge sin enjoyer

[tribal blade]

fair enough 😉

[runic trail]

Nah, we don't hit enter every two words

[warm marlin]

rn mostly because i dont like getting parried

and i feel bad for my other melee getting parried

[warm marlin]

for sure was a st build

[tribal blade]

dw the 1 sub rogue note will be them fixing parry bug

[warm marlin]

god i hope not

if we had a 2nd rogue or someone willing to alt sub i would play assa again in raid and get some variety

but i am my guilds only rogue and not a single person has a rogue alt

[hollow spear]

I don't know, can't play sin for long stretches in raid

It's decent in m+, but feels completely ass in raid

[tribal blade]

i think every single raiding rogue is in this position haha

[hollow spear]

My guild wants to have most positions backed up

No rogue showed up all tier

[runic trail]

Nah we have 2

And also 3 dks and 3 demolocks

[tribal blade]

SHEEEESH

[hollow spear]

Your roster is something else anyways

[tribal blade]

holding 50% of the rogue population right there

[runic trail]

At least we moved on from having 4 eleshams last season

So... Baby steps

[hollow spear]

We got two of those rn

And a grey parsing shadow priest

[vale pine]

because his gear is bad?

or because he plays poorly

[runic trail]

Deleted mid response

[hollow spear]

Not an expert on shadow stats, but probably more the play than the gear

[limpid sage]

yeah found out that I had it in my bag xd

didn't see it get there

[runic trail]

It happens!