subtlety

[cloud rover]

!

[tribal blade]

haha nahhhhh

[remote shuttle]

To keep up with proph skill with sub they need to be at least 2xassa

[tribal blade]

i've been playing too much sin recently

i did want to play sub for dfc earlier today

...and then noticed no sham in group

so swapped back to sin 😦

[remote shuttle]

Timed my first 17 this season yesterday (i don't switch and don't have alts, playing only sub everywhere), and noticed a shitty 2.0 % ds from bolts (belt)... Expected a little more

[tribal blade]

nice!

[remote shuttle]

Isn't best mastery maybe?

Checked 2x16s and the 17 logs

[tribal blade]

2% is not bad on overall for a key

[remote shuttle]

Never goes up 2/2,5 dps increase

[steel zinc]

Not really

[tribal blade]

i think everyone is just running bolts

[remote shuttle]

Ye i was reading 3,5 max

[formal helm]

only issue with bolts is the ninja pull

[steel zinc]

Nearly 33% or more of the time in a dungeon is spent on boss fights

[tribal blade]

2% is like the effect of a trinket that has mainstat

[formal helm]

the rest is fine

[tribal blade]

a dmg trinket

[remote shuttle]

Ah ok, someone is testing mastery in real content? (m+ or raid) any feedback? Maybe @alpine wraith ?

[tribal blade]

the way to see it is it's a big bump in ST dam

[remote shuttle]

Ye i guess so

Still i'm curious to test couple m+ with the mastery effect, will test it in the afternoon 👍

Missing only brew as 16 in time, will be a nice place to drop bolt to test mastery

[vestal escarp]

Wow notes really are just KS

[tribal blade]

i checked r.io, virtually everyone is running bolts for all content

[tribal blade]

YUP

from my guildie

[formal helm]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[tribal blade]

i've noticed as time goes on and it keeps happening again and again i'm dooming less and less

building up a tolerance

[formal helm]

ya

[short radish]

cant be disappointed if you dont expect anything

and face it, being absolute worst in a 8% overall variance between top and bottom

isn't the end of the world

[formal helm]

true

[tulip badger]

Double coup and more resets means more SD cdr?

[plush roost]

My group swapped to secondary stat procs haha. I play mast, dk haste, feral mast, pwar running shield(does surprisingly high damage) , healer healer bolts. Idk the ninja pulling and cc breaking is super cursed

The boss dps is really good for the bolts but it can really be a key bricker idk

[tribal blade]

ooo interesting

[tribal blade]

that's good to know

that must have been what happened in a priory i was in

had a caster sheeped and it got randomly broken and everyone started panicking

[plush roost]

Yeah breaking ccs, pulling mobs nearby causing a wipe due to awful threat

I can see it being good in dfc, theatre, maaaybe floodgate

[tribal blade]

ok yeah i might just run mast then

dfc is a little iffy on 1st few pulls if the tank does some weird stuff before 1st boss

[plush roost]

Priory its banned imo, too mob dense

Ig it depends for dfc ye, my groups rn is pulling overseers past los spots and playing them

So nothing to ninjapull

Oh also 100% banned in rookery

[tribal blade]

ah yeah then you're gucci

oh yeah fucking rookery lol

[leaden prairie]

it only goes on mobs in combat no?

[plush roost]

Nope it ninjapulls shit

[leaden prairie]

whaaat

[plush roost]

Cool game hehe

[leaden prairie]

no way

or

we talking about the st rpoc right

[plush roost]

Charged bolts

[leaden prairie]

yee

[plush roost]

The random lightning bolts every 3 seconds

[tribal blade]

yeah it just shoots off on anything

[leaden prairie]

I thought it was going to combat mobs only

[plush roost]

Its not ST its random targets in aoe including ooc targets

[leaden prairie]

is blizz stupid

[tribal blade]

i noticed that when i was doing world stuff

i would go back into stealth and it would shoot off onto a mob and pull me out of stealth

[keen dome]

Yeah, it'll hit random shit out of combat.

Utterly absurd

[plush roost]

Well they probably had one single dev working on it and it was an oversight

If i had to guess

[leaden prairie]

the fact its rng targetting and not your main target

[keen dome]

Gotta click the buff off

[tribal blade]

hopefully gets fixed

[leaden prairie]

already makes it terrible

but like this

[plush roost]

Its super fun when you're stealthing and its still up is super cursed as well

[leaden prairie]

is crazy

[plush roost]

Yeah basically raid only

M+ i think secondaries carry packs better and you're not likely to brick a key to random lightning procs

[leaden prairie]

bro

[plush roost]

But idk, more testing required

[leaden prairie]

for outlaw

[plush roost]

Outlaw may still want it

Isnt it like 5%

[leaden prairie]

in st

in aoe its neutral

[keen dome]

At least it's easy to swap around

But lmao

[leaden prairie]

and "st"

it goes to random target so

anytime you pull on bosses

[plush roost]

Yeeea

[leaden prairie]

(every boss in the game)

[plush roost]

Which is like all bosses now haha

[tribal blade]

which makes it basically useless

if it doesn't hit the boss

[leaden prairie]

Yeee

And it's annoying because there isn't any alternative

The other one is split damage

Which is basically the same thing

And stats are bad

[plush roost]

Yeah day 1 we tried it, looked at damage to bosses dk saw 11m and said nah thats cooked lmao

[leaden prairie]

Like I wouldn't mind playing a st proc in m+ if it at least was st??

[tribal blade]

if they change it to proc on your target

and not hit stuff out of combat

[supple verge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

it'll be banging

[leaden prairie]

ye

but like

[plush roost]

Yeah but they wont cause that was an afterthought for blizzard

[leaden prairie]

are they really going to touhc

[plush roost]

They working on 11.2

[leaden prairie]

any of these stuffs

its litteraly random thing made by intern number 646

[tribal blade]

nah they likely give 0 fucks

it's so weird how it works too

giving you an aura

that just spams the spell

[plush roost]

Yeah a 15 second aura that procs lightning 5 times

Whee so cool

[tribal blade]

it was kinda cooked on mugzee too

half the time going on adds that are immune

[plush roost]

Oh lmao that makes sense

One of our goon cages got explosed

I wonder...

[leaden prairie]

yeeee

idk i dont get it

[tribal blade]

yeah i checked mugzee and it was literally doing half the dmg than other bosses

[leaden prairie]

when they release stuffs like these

[tribal blade]

it's also mega rng

the variance is pretty high

[keen dome]

They need a golden rule of "Test it on the stealth classes"

[plush roost]

Interesting

[formal helm]

ye, I did like 6-7mins on target dummy yday and it only procced once and hit it once for 487k ....

[haughty rose]

i assume as 11.2 comes closer blizz will gain stealth detect and see that us sub rogues need buffs yeah?

many specs get whole romans in their patch notes but not a word about us is aomething

[formal helm]

you get used to it

was surprised rogue had even that line about killing spree

[bright sundial]

guys they killed fdk so im back to sub or surv so whats wrong with me playing these classes

[haughty rose]

did they really? fdk notes are so long i cba reading them

[formal helm]

think friend that plays dk said that the changes are fine

[bright sundial]

tldr no abomb,nomore cleaving oblits and now what look likes were spamming frost scythe in aoe

[formal helm]

udk changes are "penis" according to him

but frost dk is fine

[short radish]

every mob in the game will have stealth detection before blizzard gets it

[bright sundial]

but ofc could change still ways out so

[naive mantle]

how do i unlock the other things for the mole belt

do i just send random delves

[keen dome]

Open it and check them. It'll show what delve it's from

[keen dome]

then just do them

[tribal blade]

it'll tell you where to get the ones you don't have yet

[keen dome]

You can do it on Tier 1.

So just a quick in'n out

[naive mantle]

title of your

thanks ges

[haughty rose]

the meld thing is fun. we don't know how to deal with meld so everyone has meld now lol

[naive mantle]

i wish they would have made meld not drop combat instead

[formal helm]

ugh. running delves.

btw are these powers

warbound?

I hope they are?

[tribal blade]

i think so yes

[formal helm]

pog

[tribal blade]

not 100% sure

[formal helm]

then I do delve runs for alts

and get those

ez

[tribal blade]

i can't remember if i'm mixing up info about stuff being warbound on the new borrowed power we're getting next tier haha

[runic trail]

Nah, now people can meld even more so we'll find even more ways to abuse it

[tribal blade]

1 of those 2 is def warbound

[formal helm]

think the only thing I've seen about the cloak is that you can insta skip the thing with alts?

so should be the belt that is warbound?

idk

will check later today

[tribal blade]

ok yes it is warbound

confirmed

[formal helm]

okay, ty vm

❤️

[tribal blade]

it's kind of classic blizzard

there's a major issue in key pushing

and the fix should be something that fundamentally changes how skips work in keys

but they bandaid it with as little work as possible

so now they're kind of incentiving people to keep doing this super toxic skip meta

which nobody likes

[keen dome]

Yeah

They should steal my genius idea. I would solve it singlehandedly

[tribal blade]

if anything i think shroud should ignore truesight

that would make shroud strong and good again

[keen dome]

Oh, that'd be really good actually

[upper plinth]

subs how are you guys feeling about your new tier bonuses?

[keen dome]

Trickster tier looks fantastic

[tribal blade]

yeah shroud should literally conceal you from absolutely everything

[lilac stag]

It’ll get gutted

no way that shit goes live

[keen dome]

it's on a 5 minute cooldown after all, so giving it that power would be really clever

[formal helm]

you mean how stealth was supposed to work?

[runic trail]

Only issue is that would that not make rogues borderline essential for certain runs?

[tribal blade]

but then there's the issue of rogues becoming required

[formal helm]

but now every npc and their grandma has true sight

[tribal blade]

yes that's the big issue

originally why they started making half of mobs in dungeons have true sight

but then it's kind of this weird situation where shroud is only semi useful

[runic trail]

I can only think of 2 spots where I shroud this season, maybe 3. It's weird.

Though I'm not a m+ enjoyer so there's probably stats I'm missing

[tribal blade]

most of the big skips this season are done with meld

[naive mantle]

i just speed shroud on cooldown, stealth is a joke gotta go fast

[formal helm]

well yeah

[tribal blade]

i think shroud should ignore truesight because they started giving other classes better shroud

like priests mindsoothe

[formal helm]

yep.

[tribal blade]

and shroud is a 6 min cd

[frozen moat]

How is sub in m+?

[tribal blade]

should be strong

[formal helm]

or just scrap shroud and give us smth useful

anything really

even dks got a haste buff now

[lilac stag]

Worst of the 3 rogue specs

[tribal blade]

sub is playable

[lilac stag]

If KS change was up now, no one would touch sub

[tribal blade]

but you'll probably get the least amount of invites compared to the other 2 specs

[formal helm]

for basically any key level except maybe the highest ones, sub is perfectly fine

[naive mantle]

First ask yourself if your are doing m+ where it matters if the spec is the best

[formal helm]

it's just that you coudl go better performing specs

[runic trail]

Yeah but for 12 crest spam, any spec works.

[formal helm]

yes.

[runic trail]

If you enjoy the spec, just play it idk

[naive mantle]

besides pure numbers, I think sub is really fun in m+, big burst is cool and good

[lilac stag]

12 crest spam just depends on how mental the cd management makes you

do you want to afk, do you want to risk death every 20 seconds or do you want to punch your monitor based on tanks

[tribal blade]

you could just play bleed

and drool your way to topping overall in every key

[lilac stag]

that is afk option

[naive mantle]

is sub the punch monitor spec then?

[runic trail]

Just play bleed and focus your energy on demisemaxxing, that's what I do

Everything else is secondary

I'm fishing for the gigademise

[tribal blade]

i think i actually enjoy hybrid build more that i'm running it almost exclusively

bleed was very cool

but hybrid is kinda bananas

makes you the arcane mage of phys comps

[keen dome]

We're the cooler druid

[tribal blade]

it kinda blows how much more useful druids are than rogues in keys 😦

more cc, more utility, better raid buff

[keen dome]

But we're cooler

[tribal blade]

we ARE cooler

[short radish]

is there a class that has less utility than rogue?

maybe warrior?

nvm they have battleshout

[fleet wharf]

I feel shadow priests are pretty useless, but i guess you could always heal

[short radish]

spriest has soothe which is better shroud

and fort

[lilac stag]

and as soon as the keys are high enough, dots go crazy

[fleet wharf]

yea, but not having kicks this expansion and having a shitty stop that doesnt work on half the mobs is meh

[alpine wraith]

immune

[short radish]

if you didn't say the first part i'd think you were still talking about rogues

[fleet wharf]

lmao

[alpine wraith]

you can kick

once

[fleet wharf]

yes once every 45 seconds

[alpine wraith]

make it count

[fleet wharf]

better not fuck it up

[naive mantle]

spec into gouge and make it count

[fleet wharf]

Ok, I get the argument for rogue util being kind of dogshit, but rogues are so good at not dying if you know what you're doing

[runic trail]

I mentioned about this once to a guildie, his response, 'its the hybrid tax'

[short radish]

hybrid tax?????

you mean hybrid subsidy

[runic trail]

And it's just.... Sir, are you okay?

Hybrid tax isn't a thing

[short radish]

yeah but also mages

[fleet wharf]

yea, have you seen ret with the worst utils in the game?

[short radish]

and warlocks

[naive mantle]

no shot battle shout got brought up as a reason to bring warriors in a game that has have had 523 caster seasons in a row

[runic trail]

And dks

[short radish]

oh yeah how could i forget dks being able to just tank some m+ bosses when the tank dies

[keen dome]

i will never spec into gouge, nobody can make me

[runic trail]

But yeah the hybrid tax comment made me back the fuck out of the conversation

[keen dome]

I dunno what the context is I just need people to know I hate gouge

[fleet wharf]

and just choose not to interact with half of the mechanics through ams or whatever their immune movement thing is called

[short radish]

yeah your mate is a lost cause

[runic trail]

What if you become more purple if you gouge

[keen dome]

well, fuck. I'm team gouge.

[fleet wharf]

no, the correct answer there is I'll think about it once it becomes purple

[naive mantle]

holding my breath irl until i turn purple

[keen dome]

My secret move

[formal helm]

ye. would rather be useful

[tribal blade]

they make up for it with crazy good externals

freedom+sac+bop

wogs

it's a lot

[keen dome]

freedom is wild

[tribal blade]

i played with a really good ret recently, and it was basically like having a 2nd healer in the key

[keen dome]

I'm still on my Smoke Bomb utility button idea.

[fleet wharf]

yea, it's not like rets have a full hp heal or a brez

what a useless class

[tribal blade]

i think that could make a comeback

how about making smokebomb basically solar beam

[runic trail]

Smoke bomb acting like darkness would be neat

[formal helm]

what.

[naive mantle]

util is a meme for keys anyway, at the end of the day the average lfg experience comes down to the size of a spec's details number

[tribal blade]

or maybe mobs hit chance reduced while in smokebomb

[formal helm]

that more

but hit chance

[tribal blade]

or casting speed slowed by a lot

[formal helm]

is such a classic thing

[haughty mural]

And pi

[keen dome]

My idea is this:

[lilac stag]

It is. New AMZ

[formal helm]

[keen dome]

Choice node. You pick between a Darkness-esque button doing AoE DR or no DR and it acts as LoS on mobs for 2 - 3 seconds causing them to cancel their cast and run in.

I think it'd be a real fun choice node, and also just.. really nice.

[formal helm]

the los would be fun

[runic trail]

The latter might fuck some things in encounters

[formal helm]

would also help with grouping

[runic trail]

But it'd be fun

[tribal blade]

well assassination is a super strong spec in keys atm

but it's not being brought

[formal helm]

ye

[keen dome]

Ye. I mean, it'd be really strong.

[formal helm]

it has to be a combo of both util and dmg

[fleet wharf]

I mean only 3 dps specs get brought to keys each season anyway, no?

[keen dome]

Imagine pulling a load of casters in Grim Batol and going SMOKE BOMB and now you interrupt them all and they have to run in.

[tribal blade]

yeah

[formal helm]

you mean mages? :p

[fleet wharf]

i mean aug

oh

[formal helm]

mages boomies and what else?

[tribal blade]

arcane mage

[fleet wharf]

this season is mages boomies and uh dk

[formal helm]

it's always the boomies...

[tribal blade]

oh udk

[runic trail]

Fuckin' boomies

[naive mantle]

because other specs are stronger

[formal helm]

watched tettles do a +17 with one button rotation and still top dmg....

[fleet wharf]

just reroll, it's been the easiest it's ever been if thats what bothers you

[tribal blade]

yeah, or on par

[tepid trellis]

sub shit
buff sub

[keen dome]

buff sub

[fleet wharf]

is this a new cult?

buff sub

[haughty mural]

Based raccoon

[formal helm]

another 5% aura buff

ez

[tepid trellis]

nothing worse than playing out of your mind, just to look at details and see you are middle

while some fucking dev evoker or hunter just drooled over the keyboard and did more

10/10 experience

[lilac stag]

don’t worry. New tier will save us, until week before launch.

[fleet wharf]

i havent tried it but is MM that easy?

[formal helm]

you mean when they buff us right? @lilac stag

[haughty mural]

Yes

[formal helm]

right?

[naive mantle]

mm is pretty simple yes

[keen dome]

Maybe we'll get triple Coup

[tepid trellis]

get filtered bozo

[hazy breach]

Another 10/10 experience is logging onto ptr to test your new tier set until you realize it literally does not work

[formal helm]

[tepid trellis]

same as every tier for us

[formal helm]

nice tier.

[tribal blade]

sub's tier set not working pretty on point

[tepid trellis]

maybe it will work 2 days before launch this time

[lilac stag]

Saves the disappointment when it only partially works

[haughty mural]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[fleet wharf]

surely it will work tomorrow

[lilac stag]

look we got part of it working!

[tribal blade]

once again all the dev time for sub will go to fixing our tier set

[tepid trellis]

had my guildies laugh when i told them, that the current sub tierset still doesent work fully

[formal helm]

oh ye I keep forgetting about it

[naive mantle]

sub has to be the most duct taped together spec, it seems to always have bugs. Not even windwalker is this bugged anymore

[tepid trellis]

hit me with a "lmfao no fcking way or??"

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/fridge-dissapointed-no-food-my-excitement-for-food-is-now-gone-oh-nevermind-gif-17411460

[haughty mural]

Can’t believe MM got yet another work on talents and on dark ranger

[formal helm]

also the rookery 1st boss not being fixed yet

[tepid trellis]

i was actually looking forward to the trickster set

[haughty mural]

Now I know why we can’t get dev time

[tepid trellis]

to see the extra cdr

[haughty mural]

To work on our useless talents

Ngl

[lilac stag]

SV

[formal helm]

dw, they'll get one more before the 11.2 hits live servers

[hazy breach]

Works for outlaw

[haughty mural]

[hazy breach]

Just like the hotfixes

[haughty mural]

SV deserves it tho

[formal helm]

how.

[haughty mural]

[tepid trellis]

on brand

[formal helm]

wait, nimble still doesn't work?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/first-firsttimer-timer-big-daddy-gif-13153854

[hazy breach]

It doesnt get buffed by fazed no

[tepid trellis]

fazed + nimble interaction was not fixed for sub

fwiw the new KS looks pretty dope

[formal helm]

ye, I thought it was, mby I forgot

[keen dome]

Yeah, it looks like a cool change.

[hazy breach]

Well they said it was fixed

[brittle plinth]

Yo I know you like cdr so we added more cdr

[hazy breach]

But they lied

[brittle plinth]

Queue up xibit

[formal helm]

ye, think I just took it at face value

[tepid trellis]

that was the most insane part eleem

[formal helm]

and forgot to actually check

[tepid trellis]

"we fixed it"

takes me less than 5min

to find out

they indeed did NOT

10/10

[formal helm]

how do they fix it on OL and not on sub tho.
How.

like that's just

[lilac stag]

some intern is trying really hard to do their job and not get deported by ICE at the same time. give them some slack.

[brittle plinth]

The targeting dead thing wasn't fixed?!

Isn't it the same copy paste spell?!

[tepid trellis]

it was

[brittle plinth]

Oh

Kk

[formal helm]

the other thing wasn't fixed

[lilac stag]

unfortunately game dev doesn’t fall under farming allowance

[brittle plinth]

Just woke up

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[naive mantle]

going to put on my mole belt and pull every mob in the dungeon while wearing my broken tier set, cant wait for s3

[tribal blade]

until blizz reworks all the spells that keep causing sub problems literally every single patch we'll have to keep dealing with everything breaking

[lilac stag]

or just play another spec / class / quit

[tepid trellis]

@hazy breach we taking bets on if the extra Coup works with finality on implementation?

[formal helm]

I'm too far down @lilac stag

[haughty mural]

It is calling

[hazy breach]

Definitely works

[lilac stag]

You can go further down

[formal helm]

you mean on the dps meter?

[hazy breach]

Coup itself is already sus with finality

[fleet wharf]

couldn't that be part of the intent with the tier set?

[lilac stag]

100

[hazy breach]

But in good way for once

[formal helm]

how?

[hazy breach]

Coup is 3 hits (6with shadow) right

[fleet wharf]

i mean sub was in a bad state but aren't we doing ok right now? I mean sure we could always be higher, but it's not too bad right now

[hazy breach]

If you have finality when you cast coup all 3 hits get buffed

If you dont have finality the first hit doesnt get buffed, but it will trigger finality, so the 2 later hit will be buffed

[tepid trellis]

i fcked up eleem

[formal helm]

oooh

[tepid trellis]

i meant shadowed finishers

[formal helm]

that's kinda neat

[haughty mural]

It’s not about that

[lilac stag]

The base state of the spec is in a bad state

[hazy breach]

Gonna be an uphill battle as usual

[formal helm]

it's basically that every "fix" is just a bandaid

and a bad one

[haughty mural]

It’s about bugged interactions which will eventually brick everything again

[formal helm]

yep.

[brittle plinth]

It's a complicated question. Sub can we played into most content to high levels. But we are also a buggy mess with little to no fixes and seems directionless in intent.

[tepid trellis]

they could buff sub by 40% and id still think its dog

[haughty mural]

And we are hard to tune with so much broken shit

[tepid trellis]

cuz im not enjoying how the spec is

[lilac stag]

Better chance of me playing outlaw.

Can’t be arsed gearing anything

[formal helm]

I tried.
I can't do it man.

[haughty mural]

[hazy breach]

Idk i think sub feels great in raid

[haughty mural]

We are the same scath

[tepid trellis]

every time i zone into locken

i wanna alt f4

[brittle plinth]

Sub is fun to play, I'd take 40% lol

[lilac stag]

If you play trickster. How’s DS feel?

[hazy breach]

No idea, havent played it

[formal helm]

it's the hero talent tree we don't mention

[fleet wharf]

wait so other than the weird interaction with coup, the flurry not working as it should what else is broken?

[tepid trellis]

give us back out backstab bug

thanks

xoxo

[formal helm]

pretend it doesn't exist. Don't touch it scath!

[haughty mural]

Sectech

FW

[formal helm]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[lilac stag]

Base spec held together by trickster duct tape

[formal helm]

ye, not even wrong

[lilac stag]

at least fast bound assa is playable. DS on sub legit not

one of these things has a working spec tree

[tepid trellis]

u didn't see it cuz i typed it in another channel

[lilac stag]

share!

[tepid trellis]

"im 1 more stolen niche from sub away from finding my ||13th reason||"

[lilac stag]

[formal helm]

Dw, we're still keeping our niche as the most bugged spec

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/blackpink-rose-bruno-mars-apt-music-gif-11923571047306544673

[haughty mural]

If your raid does need some 1.5min spec, assa can now play fatebound wooo

[lilac stag]

Did we win again for shortest amount of class notes in a blue post? I didn’t do a word count.

[fleet wharf]

DH seem to have gotten actually nothing unless I'm mistaken

[twilit phoenix]

Maybe our frontloaded 1.5 min niche will save us

[haughty mural]

We had none afaik

[tepid trellis]

this is why we vibe in LA

[haughty mural]

Besides KS

[tepid trellis]

wow cant make me mad if i dont play it

(it still can)

[twilit phoenix]

KS had to happen tho

[lilac stag]

the tier sound cool, no way it’s not gonna get destroyed numbers wise by the time it actually goes live.

[twilit phoenix]

That shit was unacceptable

[haughty mural]

Yes true and I’m glad it happened

[formal helm]

wasn't there smth about hero talents of dh that was changed?

[twilit phoenix]

Pumped for preseason tuning again

[fleet wharf]

only pvp changes iirc

[haughty mural]

Although that makes us even less played

[formal helm]

think it was smth about capping reaver marks or smth

[haughty mural]

Im still baffled by the changes hunters got again

[lilac stag]

think it’s buy gally fist weapon with next dinar play

[junior prawn]

dh getting new sub class instead

[formal helm]

it's in datamined changes but not in their blue post

[lilac stag]

DH getting Kyveza spec.

[runic trail]

[formal helm]

shh

[runic trail]

But... I want rogues to have the kyveza spec

[lilac stag]

Watches @keen dome slow and painful death

[fleet wharf]

yea, if DH get it I'll also be very depressed

[keen dome]

I don't believe it until we actually see it on the PTR

[lilac stag]

already have the rush

[keen dome]

Because right now there's nothing to support it

[lilac stag]

make everything purple

[formal helm]

dw, they hate us enough to do it

or rather don't know we exist

[lilac stag]

Make VElf DH

[formal helm]

probably

[lilac stag]

Kyveza spec complete

[keen dome]

I just think it makes no sense to give DH another melee spec. Here's vengance: BUT PURPLE

[haughty mural]

They getting all the purple and all the kyveza now ?

[keen dome]

if it was ranged then I'd believe it.

[formal helm]

eh, it's gonna be a support kyveza spec, dw

[runic trail]

Does Blizzard have to make sense?

[formal helm]

just to shit on it

[keen dome]

no but it's funny

[fleet wharf]

They couldn't come up with 3 different range spec for hunter and made surv hunter

[lilac stag]

It can be both

[fleet wharf]

they're not going to make dh ranged

[lilac stag]

combo of melee and ranged

[opal basalt]

no

[formal helm]

hybrid class!

make it a dh healer

[lilac stag]

likely tagged as melee

For mechanics

[opal basalt]

i could imagine a void-themed thing a la green fire for warlock

[haughty mural]

Not sure anymore if serious or not

[formal helm]

fuck warlocks

[haughty mural]

[runic trail]

I'm always serious wdym

[opal basalt]

nothing changed about sub so far right?, was kinda stunlocked by frost dk changes first

[haughty mural]

They are not getting a third spec in a .2

I don’t believe this

[opal basalt]

nah its not gonna happen

but foreshadowing for midnight?

maybee

[keen dome]

If they were planning it, I think there'd be something concrete from it. This is all off the back of there being a DH with some VOid glavies in one boss fight

So I dunno, it's like, insane cope imo

[opal basalt]

isnt that the "optional boss"

[keen dome]

Yeah

[lilac stag]

I don’t think we’re getting anything until midnight. Be it a spec or race

We have to do all the get to know the race shit

[fleet wharf]

surely they'll give us kyveza spec with launch of midnight

[lilac stag]

I just wanted to make @keen dome sweat

[vocal wolf]

I feel like they shoehorned DH too much to make a new spec that plays significantly different from the other two

[formal helm]

ethereals when.

[vocal wolf]

What they gonna give us purple eyebeam?

[opal basalt]

yeah like i said

[lilac stag]

I also think where there’s smoke there’s fire. Realz all but disappeared. Time to work on a new spec.

[opal basalt]

void-theme questline

like warlock's green fire

[formal helm]

he was here last night!

well

in outlaw or somewhere

[lilac stag]

Dad you got the milk?

[formal helm]

think I've seen him

[opal basalt]

the killing spree change was nice

[keen dome]

I love the animation

[formal helm]

ye think he clarified smth about it somewhere

[keen dome]

it looks so funny

[formal helm]

where animation

gib.

[lilac stag]

outlaw pin

Or ptr

[formal helm]

ah.

[keen dome]

https://imgur.com/SGHH8MW

[formal helm]

it's so goofy

[keen dome]

It's perfect

I love how goofy it is

[lilac stag]

it’s perfect

[formal helm]

I love it

[keen dome]

gun kata with flintlocks

[leaden plover]

About time secret tech gets some love then, would love more purple visuals

[formal helm]

seems like the char is having a seizure

[lilac stag]

need the machine gun wa sound

[keen dome]

I wanna see it on a gnome

[opal basalt]

sec

[brittle plinth]

Or something secret about it

[leaden plover]

Imagine secret tech actually was a secret technique

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[formal helm]

yeah, it becomes so secret it disappears from your dmg meter

[leaden plover]

Clones does something secret.

[lilac stag]

has anyone seen my super secret pets?

[leaden plover]

https://tenor.com/view/jump-cave-gif-13944818305295444454

[brittle plinth]

Okay not playing

New KS is awesome

[formal helm]

which ones? 👀

[brittle plinth]

Secret tech is unnecessarily complicated

It doesn't need clones

[lilac stag]

11.2 outlaw tier

[brittle plinth]

It doesn't need to do shit but DMG and maybe some fun graphic

[fleet wharf]

is that your new game that u wanted us to check out?

[leaden prairie]

Bro trinna hack my account

[opal basalt]

that didnt work the way i wanted it to

[leaden prairie]

Nice try buddy

[opal basalt]

sec, lemme make that a gif or sth

[leaden prairie]

I think it it's MP4 it embed

[opal basalt]

good

there you go @keen dome

[swift tinsel]

Lmao that fucking owns

[keen dome]

lmfao

holy shit it's perfect

[swift tinsel]

Miss Fortune lookin ahhh

[dreamy badger]

Looks like a rubit 🤖

[swift tinsel]

Forget sub I’ll play outlaw just for that haha

[lilac stag]

Amazing what an animation that’s visible can do for dopamine

[swift tinsel]

Pirate Gun Kata

[vocal wolf]

Hey you wanna, something something about a game passion project yadda yadda

[void hound]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-vs-capcom-devil-may-cry-infinite-dante-gif-18183286

reminds me of this lmao

[keen dome]

Ye. I love Coup now ou animation works

So if the could just do SecTec..

[vocal wolf]

My only gripe is that it looks like a frontal

[lilac stag]

wonders how 1 button outlaw is working out
asking for my arthritis.

[vocal wolf]

It's casting KS in subterfuge, nuff said lol

[runic trail]

At least they haven't broken anything. Yet.

[swift tinsel]

That we know about

[hazy breach]

Well the new tier doesnt work

[swift tinsel]

Besides tier set

[hazy breach]

(it works for outlaw)

[swift tinsel]

They get all the cool new toys now

[void hound]

a tale as old as time

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/someday-spongebob-maybe-gif-4686651

[tepid trellis]

and i get asked why im always negative on content launches

[swift tinsel]

Considering our current tier set still doesn’t work properly

[vale pine]

Classic

[swift tinsel]

[keen dome]

If our tier worked from the get-go i'd be moe surprised

[runic trail]

True, apparently they broke something for Ret with the patch

[swift tinsel]

Haven’t gone through the full list of bugs from the sheet yet but I have low hopes

[tepid trellis]

what? the record of the playerbase with the all time lowest IQ?

[swift tinsel]

And haven’t noticed any new ones besides tier set

[remote eagle]

what is the dps difference between default belt power and mastery proccing one?
it already kicked me out of stealth a couple times and fucked up a meld skip one time

[runic trail]

I thought that was hunters

[remote eagle]

i hate it

[swift tinsel]

Hey those shiny glowing buttons don’t press themselves

[runic trail]

But ye something to do with empyrean hammers or something?

[swift tinsel]

I mean they basically do for ret but still

Lmao that ability is a joke with how strong it is

Perma uptime with even a single brain cell

Anything that breaks it is fine in my book

[formal helm]

they are competing, dw

[tepid trellis]

nah i think right now

its Rets

then dev

then hunter

[formal helm]

probably, ya

[runic trail]

It was a Ret that told me recently that rogues don't have utility due to the hybrid tax

So

You may be onto something

[formal helm]

average ret pala

[remote shuttle]

Ty for info bud

[formal helm]

no, my bad

brightest ret pala *

[tepid trellis]

he probably also has to remind himself to breath manually

[runic trail]

I backed out of the conversation at that point

I couldn't handle it

[tribal blade]

we did have a convo after that about how bolts is very troll because it breaks cc and pulls stuff out of combat

so mast proc might just be better

[swift tinsel]

Hybrid tax does not exist anymore lmao

[formal helm]

wdym, don't you see rogues are getting hybrid tax?

[brittle plinth]

King of the hill meme needed

[swift tinsel]

laughs in shaman, boomkin, ret

[remote shuttle]

40 mt range bolts.. Insane

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-spongebob-patrick-star-teamwork-together-gif-21500381

[keen dome]

What makes us hybrid

[swift tinsel]

We aren’t so no utility

[lilac stag]

Only half our shit works

[runic trail]

I think he was trying to argue that the hybrid classes do less damage so they have utility

[brittle plinth]

Rogue utility is limited to very specific situations. That most ppl never notice.

[runic trail]

And it's just

[keen dome]

but

[brittle plinth]

Add skips with locked doors, more likely than fixing bugs.

[runic trail]

Listen I dropped the convo there I can't deal with that level of dumb

[swift tinsel]

Best we can do is truesight mobs everywhere

-Blizz

[runic trail]

Doors also have truesight, because fuck you

[opal basalt]

hybrid tax was a thing back in the day, wasnt it?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

Like fifteen years ago

[fleet wharf]

so just like yesterday

[opal basalt]

do i go delve for the belt now or procrastinate it a little longer?

[swift tinsel]

It was probably BC the last time that phrase meant anything relevant

[brittle plinth]

It's wild how many and the aggro range. Floodgate, first mech everyone can walk by but a stealth class, I can't stealth by.

[runic trail]

Like if you want to give me no utility but a meaningful damage boost then go for it

[swift tinsel]

So even more than 15 years lol

[runic trail]

It takes like 20 minutes, just get it done

[brittle plinth]

It's super easy d1

[opal basalt]

alright

[runic trail]

Just do the same rank 1 delve twice and it's mercifully quick

[swift tinsel]

Need to resub to abuse the tw dragon cheese thing and start gearing my dk

[lilac stag]

Is the dragon just keep running dungeons?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, it calculates the achieve progress incorrectly

So people are getting it at like 8-9 dungeons

[lilac stag]

got it.

[runic trail]

[formal helm]

I got it yday while leveling my sham

didn't even know it was a thing

[lilac stag]

maybe time to level DH in kyveza prep

[swift tinsel]

Not 100% on the math but it sounds like first 5 get you 1/5 progress like normal but 6 gets you 2/5 etc

Bc it refreshes the max buff and it thinks you got a second week of progress towards it

[formal helm]

guildie told me his prog is stuck at 2/5 for example

so it's not that consistent

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[runic trail]

Even the bugs are bugged

[swift tinsel]

One of mine got it in like 11 or so, another in 8

[brittle plinth]

What's this?

[swift tinsel]

Timewalking bug to get the mount week 1

[brittle plinth]

?!

[swift tinsel]

Instead of doing it each week for five weeks

[runic trail]

I think I missed your joke, I'm not a smart man

[swift tinsel]

You just spam them

[brittle plinth]

Oh just send 25 dungeons?

[keen dome]

nro am I, I was not making a joke

[swift tinsel]

And it gives more progress than intended

[runic trail]

5 minutes later my brain just goes, 'oh'

Oh

Shit

[brittle plinth]

How do you check progress?

[swift tinsel]

People are getting it in like 8-10 sometimes

The turbulent timeways achieve

[brittle plinth]

Oh kk

You're a hero

Thank you

[vale pine]

Probably can also do on alts, it's buggy for sure

[swift tinsel]

Like Falling Dust said though it isn’t 100% consistent after the first five runs

[brittle plinth]

Can I swap between alta?

NM fuu got it

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, one of my guild mates who got it in less said he had run a bunch on alts

[keen dome]

I'm gonna do waht I did last time: do 4 on oen character, log off, then do 1 on him each week to refresh the buff

[brittle plinth]

My buff just ran out after my daily ml fail

Lol

[remote shuttle]

Yep i was reading u guys while in a work call 😂 as said i will test mastery today on some 16s/17s and give feedback

[brittle plinth]

The bfa dungeons are absolutely horrible though

[swift tinsel]

Pray for freehold

[brittle plinth]

This might be a punishment

[formal helm]

eh they're fine

everything in tw is fine

it's pretty fast

[tepid trellis]

bfa dungeons are mostly good

SL ones

[swift tinsel]

I wish timewalking gear still existed

[tepid trellis]

are absolute garbage tho

[brittle plinth]

I barely stayed awake through the weekly 5

[formal helm]

had a guildie devoker with me at some point.
bosses lived 7 secs

[formal helm]

[swift tinsel]

Had a fury set that could oneshot literally anything

[keen dome]

Sethralis is the only one annoying 'cos two of the bosses have dumb gimmicks that take forever

[brittle plinth]

Question about SL

[formal helm]

yep.

[swift tinsel]

Halls goated

[brittle plinth]

Did the game design get high?

[swift tinsel]

Like stoned and lazy?

Yeah

[brittle plinth]

It's like a not wow game shoehorned in

[tribal blade]

hell yeah brodda

[swift tinsel]

At parts

[brittle plinth]

Dungeons etc nothing fits

It's so off brand

[swift tinsel]

Covenants sucked, live torghast mostly sucked,

[brittle plinth]

Kind of like UK/UP but they were objectively great dungeons

[swift tinsel]

Korthia sucked

[brittle plinth]

Aesthetic is weird

[swift tinsel]

Zereth Mortis sucked

[runic trail]

Necrolords were bros though

[tribal blade]

oh, can you swap the belt mid combat, has anyone tested in keys

[vale pine]

Zerath Morris was still the best zone in sl

Even if it sucked

[brittle plinth]

That does remind me, rogue tier from SL is sick

[swift tinsel]

True

[brittle plinth]

I should unlock and do those raids

[swift tinsel]

The base zones themselves being bad certainly helped that

Ardenweald had some nice things aesthetically

[formal helm]

honestly I didn't mind torghast

it was okay

a bit forced, but okay

[brittle plinth]

It seemed like a cool idea when I saw it but I never played it.

Then again everyone loved Garrisons month 1 too.

[swift tinsel]

It should have been cooler if they stuck with the ptr iteration

[runic trail]

I feel like it'd be better received if it was an optional challenge thing instead of it being shoehorned into part of progression

[formal helm]

I just wished they'd made it endless like they 1st teased it to be

like those endless corridors or w/e

[swift tinsel]

Grinding it for covenant rep was a joy

[formal helm]

but 8 layers is just w/e

[formal helm]

yes, deffo

they should've let it be as broken as possible
it would've been enjoyable then

those anima powers from ptr were fun af

[runic trail]

Let anima powers be broken, let it scale stupidly high as a challenge, let people mess around with it

[formal helm]

yes

exactly.

bc it would've been a fun thing to do in downtime

either as a solo content or as a group one

[runic trail]

Like, I was doing delves anyhow sometimes, but you make it feel like a chore? It just feels bad

[formal helm]

yep.

[swift tinsel]

Next youre gonna tell me Domination sockets weren’t peak gameplay

[formal helm]

okay fuck those

[runic trail]

If you put things in the game I'll likely give them a shot on my own volition, don't make me do it

[swift tinsel]

That tier split our guild in half

[formal helm]

but didn't you love how lfr sylv dagger was better than myth alternatives?

[formal helm]

our guild fell apart on that tier

we only reformed this tier

[swift tinsel]

We easily lost 50-60% of our raid roster

[formal helm]

tbh, our main issue was the covid

and since our RL was a nurse

he had insane shifts

passed out from tiredness during raids a few times

and then he said he can't do both anymore

[swift tinsel]

Was kind of a perfect storm, shitty system, not great raid, ff xiv was huge

Internal blizz meltdown

[formal helm]

oh ye, a lot of people quit to go for ffxiv

I tried it

I hated it.

[swift tinsel]

I think six or seven of our core from the previous few seasons left for it

I tried for a couple weeks but didn’t vibe

[formal helm]

ye, idk

also not being able to publicly use dps meter is shite feeling

ngl

[swift tinsel]

I actually kinda liked that part about it

I only look at them currently for the first minute-ish of the fight then at 1:30 intervals

For no particular reason

[brittle plinth]

You can use a DMG meter in ff but you can't use it publicly?

What's that mean?

[runic trail]

Add-ons are against ToS, there are some you can use but you can't mention it in game

They're unofficial but as long as you don't mention them in game then it's generally allowed

[keen dome]

Ye, as long as you don't make it known, they don't care.

It's firmly a "Don't talk about it" situation.

[tribal blade]

i think it makes 0 sense

to not have feedback on how well you're doing in a game

[opal basalt]

boss dies, job's done

[tribal blade]

yeah but how do you improve

or even know you need to improve

without metrics

[opal basalt]

i think it's mostly so you can't talk down on bad players

because they have a huge casual audience

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure

difference in philosophy

[keen dome]

Ye. Like, I actually think having an in-game damage meter and using it as feedback is important as a tool. And then you regulate and moderate properly to contorl toxicity.

Most people want to use it as a tool of improvement, not to start fights.

[tribal blade]

one of the most exciting things about playing wow is when you play out of your mind

[keen dome]

Sadly, Blizz doesn't have good moderation so uh, rip. But 14 does, so they could benefit from it.

[tribal blade]

and you see it reflected in the meters

[keen dome]

One thing 14 does have is a special instance you can go to and do a DPS race against a current bosses HP or similar to see if you have the damage to beat it.

[keen dome]

Yeah - I've had some great moments where stuff clicked and I saw my DPS spike and I knew "Shit, this is a good idea!"

[tribal blade]

yeah it's really cool

you're actively improving yourself

[keen dome]

I've seen it in my logs this season, like

I know this is only Heroic, but: I've gone from this in S1

To this in S2:

And I think without these tools I wouldn't be tying remotely as hard.

It's why these have such an impotant, positive impact on the content if you engage with them properly, imo

You get to see your own improvement over time

[hollow spear]

For that purpose they're great

[keen dome]

Also analysis and identifying weakness / mistakes

It's when they become a swordfighting thing or like. Arguments

[hollow spear]

Yeah, some people abuse them

[brittle plinth]

This is my issue. How do I know if I'm doing it right?! Lol

[tribal blade]

i feel like removing dmg meters from an MMO is like nerfing the world and giving everyone participation trophies

[hollow spear]

I use them to get mad at rets for hovering up all the unimportant adds and padding their overall

[keen dome]

Hah

[swift tinsel]

but I gotta divine storm the prio add

[keen dome]

But, like. That's actually a good point on analysis. You can see where damage is going. It's important, imo

[brittle plinth]

They should internalize parses against spec and tell you how you did or how (in aggregate) you compare against benchmarks

[hollow spear]

It goes from my overall into theirs is where it's going. Completely cursed if you ask me.

[brittle plinth]

That way you can optionally engage with it

[keen dome]

Ye

[swift tinsel]

I use logs for that kind of stuff heavily, having live logs up while raiding is extremely useful

[brittle plinth]

But it should also tell you who in your run is not running consistent with everyone else's benchmark

[keen dome]

That's actually a good idea as a way to mitigate some of the potential negative feelings or toxicity.

[brittle plinth]

Honestly livelogs were awesome

[hollow spear]

My guild tells us to not min max damage and/or uptime every five pulls

That's half the reason I'm playing the game lol

[brittle plinth]

"why am I doing bad?" Oh I am not swapping or I'm missing a DMG amp or my uptime

[swift tinsel]

meanwhile ours tells us to brute force everything with damage

explains why prog stalls for us a lot in mythic

[graceful osprey]

Zug Zug is always the way

[swift tinsel]

it can definitely carry to an extent

[graceful osprey]

No need for mechanics when the boss is dead

[hollow spear]

There's a healthy in between

[swift tinsel]

unless its losing 3-4 people in Rik intermission bc MCs

[hollow spear]

What are people doing there to min max and get hit?

[swift tinsel]

idek

running

[keen dome]

I used to think like that but now I'm just "PLEASE DO MECHANICS GUYS OH MY GOD" after pugleading

[graceful osprey]

But really, I think it’s just a people thing rather than a “add on is bad” thing. I’ve always had the view point of finding like minded players to play with and the experience will me much better

[brittle plinth]

I'm of the mindset that dps only matters after execution.

[keen dome]

Man, doing speed strat mug'zee rekills on heroic and half the raid explodes 'cos people are tunneling the boss and nobody is soaking mine explosions

[hollow spear]

Am I cooked or is the kill date difference between a rank 1000 and 500 guild actually quite small?

[hollow spear]

I'd like it if his hitbox was a tad larger

[keen dome]

Ye

[opal basalt]

wr 530 guild killed may 18, wr 1342 killed june 15

4 weeks actually not a lot

[tribal blade]

4 weeks is quite a bit of time

[hollow spear]

I think I looked at 600 vs 1000 actually, could swear that was like two weeks or so

[keen dome]

That's pretty cool to see it gain that much momentum

[hollow spear]

Maybe the gap is smaller this season because of turbo boost

[tribal blade]

yeah this season there were a LOT of power creeps

turbo boost on top of the raid buff made progging the raid significantly easier

[keen dome]

Multiple nerfs, too

Boss nefs, I mean. Which, I guess, are raid buffs. Tehcnically

[runic trail]

Made bandit for us a lot easier

[tribal blade]

yeah i think it coincided with the huge bandit nerfs too

they were around the same time

[keen dome]

Wonder if turbo boost will become the norm.

[hollow spear]

Kinda torn on if I wanna stay where I am or if I want to improve

[tribal blade]

well next season now i know

NOT to use any non gilded crests

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, extremely good shout.

[hollow spear]

Same

[keen dome]

Just sit on them all

[tribal blade]

to get quick gilded crests early on every week

yeah just sit on em all

i was one of the people who were fucked

[hollow spear]

I used them to boost my ilvl for the raid and then farm them back later

[tribal blade]

because i was being "smart" before turbo boost

[keen dome]

I ran a lot of M+ that one week

[hollow spear]

M+ hell

[tribal blade]

i personally don't want turbo boost to become a normal thing

[keen dome]

I think I did like 25 keys or something lmao

[tribal blade]

because i hate that "must spam content nonstop until i have all the power"

[keen dome]

Yeah, I agree Prophet. If anything, I think it makes sense if we have longer seasons, but as it is I think it's.. a bit eh.

[opal basalt]

i'm in a raid with another sub rogue and bro plays with gloomblade

he cookin?

[keen dome]

It isn't the worst way to nerf content, though. Making players more powerful.

[runic trail]

I did that unintentionally, got 430 gilded or something day 1

[keen dome]

hero, imo.

is he playing deathstalker

[tribal blade]

nah horrendous

[opal basalt]

nah trickster

[tribal blade]

lucky duck

[runic trail]

And my guild said doing world content was a waste of time. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW

[tribal blade]

LOL pathing into shadowfocus to get gloomblade

is double fucked

[hollow spear]

It's iGestalt on an alt

Embracing the purple

[keen dome]

haha

[tribal blade]

oh wait do we actually talent SF right now

[keen dome]

not that I know of

[tribal blade]

it's been so long since i've looked at what talents we run

[runic trail]

Why is your discord icon not purple

[keen dome]

I like my stupid skeleton man

[runic trail]

But you could find purple stupid skeleton man

[keen dome]

true

[opal basalt]

checking his logs

he got wr 3 heroic rik with that build

[runic trail]

He knows the true secret technique

[opal basalt]

yeah yeah sure

[tribal blade]

heroic being the key word

[hazy breach]

I mean its instead of imp shuriken storm, so if youre not casting storm its fine

But then again

[short radish]

i can assure you his wr3 heroic has got nothing to do with gloomblade and everything to do with pressing secret technique at the right time

[hazy breach]

SF doesnt do anything

[tribal blade]

yeah i remembered it's for talenting pure ST sub

[brittle plinth]

Buds after my 6th failed 12/13 ML I am convinced I won't hit 3k. Rip the dream lol

[opal basalt]

i'm just joking around guys

[cloud rover]

Prophet

You are a prophet

When does Season 3 Start

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter though

[tribal blade]

LOL some time in the future

[opal basalt]

aug 12/13

[cloud rover]

Gimme a date

[opal basalt]

mark my words

[cloud rover]

Hey no spoilers

[tribal blade]

yep SF is almost useless

damn sorry i can't, god is asleep rn

he's on DND atm

sorry

[cloud rover]

Prohpet gimme a date and maybe give me the realease time too