but reading this sounds like you don't want to sit on coup at all
#subtlety
hazy breach
Bro you cant stack new coup stacks during the 5s of the extra coup? 
tribal blade
Bro you cant stack new coup stacks during the 5s of the extra coup? <:ICANT:1133...
oh you can't?
classic
pliant topaz
is this the return of armin?
Nah
pliant topaz
Not sure how it won’t stack, unless it’s unique?
Nvm it’s not unique because I remember getting like 14 stacks with 2 coups
hazy breach
Because the 5s buff from the tier is escalating blades
So it tries to +1 it, sees "oh its at 4 stacks"
pliant topaz
Which means unless their scrip is the worst thing any one has ever written they made it not stack
hazy breach
and then goes on about its day
swift tinsel
Bro you cant stack new coup stacks during the 5s of the extra coup? <:ICANT:1133...
Lmao we got DS bug on trickster no fucking way
pliant topaz
But application of coup should give u 5 stacks though not escalating blades
Unless I’m mistaken in what you’re saying
tribal blade
am i reading this right, the literal only change to rogue is outlaw KS
swift tinsel
So far
tribal blade
why am i not surprised
swift tinsel
Squeaky wheels and whatnot
tribal blade
usually it would be "dw this is early on"
hazy breach
its nothing about flawless
swift tinsel
Should have the 5sec buff plus escalating if it works properly
Or what I’d imagine properly to be
hazy breach
Like without the tier if you go sectech > coup > strike you are at 1 coup stack, ie 1 escalating blade
With the tier if you go sectech > coup > strike you are at 0 coup stacks
warm marlin
Its just the coup effect
it presumably goes away when you coup right
hazy breach
Because the extra coup buff munches the procs
warm marlin
so it works just like a normal coup
hazy breach
it presumably goes away when you coup right
Probably but A. The extra coup doesnt work right now on PTR and B. Even if it does its still shit
Because then if you dont get a shadowcraft refund inbetween your coups
You'll always waste 1 stack
warm marlin
ye ik the 4p is bricked
but that interaction is why i think 14sht will be very important
hazy breach
I mean the 5s buff should be completely seperate from the coup stacks
Theres no reason for them to be related
midnight ledge
I haven't seen this mentioned yet. is this new for next season? thoughts on it?
hazy breach
I haven't seen this mentioned yet. is this new for next season? thoughts on it?
Nop been in the game since tww launch
hazy breach
Its just awful
warm marlin
maybe also good feedback for realz
pliant topaz
I mean the 5s buff should be completely seperate from the coup stacks
Oooohhh I thought u meant the 2nd coup doesn’t give u the flawless form stacks. Yeah I expected it to make it so u can’t get new escalating stacks
warm marlin
but i somehow doubt it since its just how regular coup works
hazy breach
Well the second coup doesnt work on ptr
So not during cds
Youll go sectech > coup > waste all of your disorienting strikes > coup
Almost all the time
pliant topaz
Yeah that’s why I was saying coup coup sectech so u get big buff and don’t waste escalating stacks
hazy breach
Like it cant be designed this way on purpose
Its just awful
Deathstalker levels of bad
warm marlin
maybe itll just be one dance between flags and you just do coup coup cb sectec
turbo pool for flag
pliant topaz
I can see triple dance with flag tbh
warm marlin
instead of 1.5 charges of dance going into flag just sitting at or near 2
pliant topaz
Im so far behind hahahaha haven’t caught up at all
warm marlin
if you're gonna be turbo pooling sht anyway you won't have much opportunity to really be dancing often between flags
pliant topaz
So yeah it’s just the same then. Triple dance in flag + more naked sectechs and wrap it up
warm marlin
i auto attacked for 18 seconds straight on sprocket this week
0 gcds
this is the future they want
warm marlin
i refreshed my rupture at 115
hazy breach
How am i supposed to get a good sprocket log when it dies at 4:30
warm marlin
since it was going to expire
and then had no reason to build
already had my cdr good to go
pliant topaz
Eleem what’s aoe gonna be like? Backstab cuz mashallah maybe got 2 set proc? Or fully ignore 2 set and don’t use it! So Pog
Kekw
hazy breach
Its just a during dance type thing
hazy breach
Dont think so
warm marlin
i dont think itll be that bad
hazy breach
Should be less rng than now
tribal blade
oh true good point haha
hazy breach
Im not even talking about the tier
tribal blade
very good point
hazy breach
Just unseen blade in general
warm marlin
the delve belt is turbo cringe
hazy breach
Like you will very rarely get the no-coup inbetween sectechs with the new tier
Which can happen quite a bit now, especially if you dont have disorienting strikes on pull
zenith prism
make unseen blade trackable
hazy breach
make unseen blade trackable<:garf:1320173032743899157>
Sure but i dont think it really matters
Like youre not really gonna play different either way
pliant topaz
Its just a during dance type thing
U already have like 3 guarantees usually in aoe. So at most u get 1 proc huge
In aoe specifically
tribal blade
i assume this would change backstab rules in 2 target
hazy breach
Why
This just makes backstab better, so its the same as now. Might make backstab worth at 3
tribal blade
i thought maybe more UB procs would mean backstab better
full lagoon
At least theres a new house of cards trinket in dungeon loot now
warm marlin
At least theres a new house of cards trinket in dungeon loot now
idk this trinket looks so bad in comparison to the absurdity of the others
full lagoon
i mean it gives main stat
Almost no others do
think its pretty decent, the big main stat onuse is 2min so
not much choice
warm marlin
my initial thinking with our tierset and whatnot looks like we are somehow putting even more of our dmg % into our 90s windows
full lagoon
oh missed that one
warm marlin
having primary outside of them is kinda whatever
hazy breach
The 2 min one looks better than it is because it decays
full lagoon
thought it was a remnant of darkness reskin i think
warm marlin
5k primary + 9k mastery twice vs. 55k agility
full lagoon
If i remember what u mean
full lagoon
5k primary + 9k mastery twice vs. 55k agility
I mean its more like 25-30k
hazy breach
my initial thinking with our tierset and whatnot looks like we are somehow putti...
Its moreso putting more damage into dance, not specifically the 90s
full lagoon
decay and no main stat on base
warm marlin
it lasts 20s
full lagoon
can you send tooltip if you have it somewhere
warm marlin
almost covers 3 dances
hazy breach
Oh is it 20s
Thats even better
Or well, 15s but stronger wouldve been better, but its fine
warm marlin
can you send tooltip if you have it somewhere
you either send on every 90s or overcap a bit and wait for 3 mins
hazy breach
We probably send every 90s
Unless you know you need to big bang
Because otherwise you waste stacks
warm marlin
i wonder if maghar will weigh it to 3mins 
hazy breach
And 33k mainstat is still good
warm marlin
idk there's a world to me where you send dances a bit more aggresively and don't turbo pool for your 90s flag like you would for your 3min
probably just worse than casting spy every 90s but
maybe a way to play around it
hazy breach
You waste like 1/3 of a use if you hold it for the 3 min though
warm marlin
yea...
hazy breach
Or well, 1/3 of a 90s pop
So probably only worth in situations you know you need enormous burst for
its also from the 6th boss
warm marlin
perhaps you send it before your cb sectec in opener to avoid overcapping a bit
idk
then you waste only 2 stacks
still probably bad
swift tinsel
shoulder off-piece, with heavy mastery/vers shoulders from raid available
not a bad sitch
tribal blade
i'm enjoying the fact that sub is the niche 1.5 min spec for rogue
and then they're giving that to sin
bleak night
hazy breach
Just gotta do some cooking to make sure this one is up for the burst too @warm marlin
55k agi and 30k mastery go boom
short radish
warm marlin
i tried it
short radish
i dont like the sound of this
short radish
hazy breach
Its 10 rppm
short radish
can we please stop having degenerate stop damage built into our shit
warm marlin
aint no way ur juggling getting coup ready getting your sht and also getting your trinket to 13 stacks 
hazy breach
And/or hold non cd dances for it in the downtime period
short radish
aint no way ur juggling getting coup ready getting your sht and also getting you...
guess youre not keeping your r1 parses next tier
hazy breach
He draws the line at NOT auto attacking though
warm marlin
i play outlaw in keys and go zoom zoom 100apm
and then i play sub in raid and afk for 20s straight
short radish
unironically my favorite part of playing the game is when i don't have to play the game
warm marlin
short radish
it makes me feel free ya know
warm marlin
Why did blud not backstab
im pretty sure there's definitely a gain on another fight to also not backstab just so you don't waste your pacemaker proc
as i unfortunately learned this week feint will proc it though
gotta actually cast nothing
warm marlin
doesn't matter if there is no 3min burst 🤔
swift tinsel
okay yeah this 4pc thing is fucking weird
not being a separate buff makes zero sense
also it chains off itself sometimes
warm marlin
wdym chains off itself
warm marlin
your tier set is working?
swift tinsel
lemme get logs setup quick
swift tinsel
right
hazy breach
3 phys + 3 shadow
swift tinsel
that doesn't show what I'm trying to say, I got to 4 stacks, then cast coup, then my stacks stayed at 4, cast coup again, stacks stayed at 4 again after the 2nd cast
swift tinsel
ohhh its a visual bug then with escalating then bc it keeps saying I'm at 4 after casting it
hazy breach
No
You cast 1 coup
Then you cast evsicerates
So you cant use the 5s buff
Because its bugged
But the 4p buff being tied to escalating is sus because then you cant stack inebtween coups, even when they fix it to work
swift tinsel
ah yeah now that I can see the log better I see what you mean
Void-Touched Fragment stacking around 3ish mins sounds kinda nice
hazy breach
It should be roughly every 90s, but again, rppm is random
tribal blade
oh i thought i was gonna have to race change off nelf, but that new pot is on the same cd as combat pot right?
good
swift tinsel
hazy breach
oh i thought i was gonna have to race change off nelf, but that new pot is on th...
Ye they said its a "combat pot"
So should share cd
swift tinsel
latent energy acting weird tho
tribal blade
Ye they said its a "combat pot"
classic blizz bandaid fix 🙂
they can't figure out how to fix the skip meta, so they do something that requires the least amount of work
hazy breach
Idk racials usually worth more than a single use of pot anyway
Better to have the option than to not have the option
tribal blade
sounds like it's gonna be one of those things where everyone will have to have combat pot off cd on certain points of M+
bleak night
we dont want everyone to need shroud/invis pot to do skips
so instead we added a shadowmeld pot that everyone needs instead
tribal blade
rogue utility losing value by the second
swift tinsel
looks like fragment can proc off poison and/or rupture (its both)
tribal blade
now EVERYONE has vanish 🙂
swift tinsel
same for netherprism
short radish
so instead we added a shadowmeld pot that everyone needs instead
thought the exact same thing
holy shit
its actually such fucking stupid monkey ass logic
short radish
tin foil hat theory - theyve done this to make everyone pay for race changes to dwarves
tribal blade
they legit did the simplest fix they possibly could
which doesn't fix anything
except make the skip meta even easier to do?
or maybe it's ok
bleak night
but if you want to make the skips ok why not just use the pot we already had for doing skips
and stop putting eyes everywhere
hazy breach
Developers’ notes: Spell Block required a lot of specialized knowledge to use. Not only did you need to know when damage was coming, but also whether it was a form of magic damage that could be blocked or not and thus affected by the ability. AOE damage isn’t blockable, neither is periodic damage. Some tankbusters are and others aren’t. We weren’t happy with the knowledge demanded to use the ability effectively.
Warrior cant have this but rogue has 4 spells that work the exact same way
tribal blade
holy shit kill timers so incredibly cooked for sin now
i might just play sub for reclears
tribal blade
`Developers’ notes: Spell Block required a lot of specialized knowledge to use. ...
haha i guess rogue just has big brains
others can't comprehend
warm marlin
i might just play sub for reclears
sub is goated
hazy breach
I love playing sub when we had like a 4:20 sprocket
But thats cursed for assa too so its gg, need more dps and less buyers
tribal blade
just killed locken at 4:04 kill timer
tribal blade
so what's the over under on sub getting no changes whatsoever
or very minimal attention
swift tinsel
I'll huff the copium and say we get at least 2 talents changed
warm marlin
hopefully #nochanges
shut jay
our tier set will be nerfed severely a week away from 11.2 going live 
swift tinsel
maybe not on the level of "remove dust and add death perception"
brittle plinth
I have to assume that at the very least we eat a nerf but some bugs fixed from mid xpac wowhead post
warm marlin
nah unlike s2 transmitter isnt going to pump the numbers up as much as before
and there are other specs currently looking omega broken
tribal blade
t r u e
shut jay
'the' rogue change
hazy breach
My guess is that sub is going to be quite low on overall dps but have insanely strong burst, esp if we can get the 2p to be an extra hit instead of a cd reset
hazy breach
I have to assume that at the very least we eat a nerf but some bugs fixed from m...
Didnt look through the entire sheet but nothing seemed fixed when i checked
tribal blade
My guess is that sub is going to be quite low on overall dps but have insanely s...
is there an estimate to how many extra coups we get in cds?
swift tinsel
same, will look more tomorrow
hazy breach
is there an estimate to how many extra coups we get in cds?
should be 4 coups instead of 2
If the tier set works like you'd expect it to
tribal blade
that's actually kinda crazy
hazy breach
(but again, it doesnt work right now on ptr so)
But then again were also missing like 30% damage on our finishers from the current tier
zenith prism
our tier set will be nerfed severely a week away from 11.2 going live <:garf_sit...
at least 4pc reward is not a numerical one thus can't be nerfed
warm marlin
30% damage on finishers from current tier -> 30% damage from flawless form from coup
but only one of them actually works on sectec
saved?
tribal blade
i imagine trickster OL is gonna be banging with the new tier
hazy breach
Its only the shadow part of current tier thats bugged with sectech
shut jay
at least 4pc reward is not a numerical one thus can't be nerfed<:OMEGAKEKW:82905...
10% bonus damage coup de cringo. it can always get worse
that extra 0 was a typo
hazy breach
But ye were also expecting the new tier to just be numerically stronger than the current one
warm marlin
excited to see once it gets fixed what is possible
shut jay
is that 2 minute on use raid trinket intellect only or is it just visually not updating to agi for us?
warm marlin
"if" it gets fixed
i mean they wont just leave the 4p of a tier set unfunctional
it literally doesnt do anything on ptr
tribal blade
ah i didn't realize it was that broken
hazy breach
is that 2 minute on use raid trinket intellect only or is it just visually not ...
Idk its 2 min anyway so dumpy
warm marlin
its actively a damage loss actually since you can't build coup stacks during the 5s
hazy breach
Why bother with 2 min trinket when theres ones we can use on every burst
shut jay
Wasn't house of cards 2 min during ptr?
hazy breach
First week or so yes
shut jay
Then we pray
shut jay
They make it 90secs
hazy breach
Why
We already have trinkets we can use
Theres a 90s one like house of cards from the new dungeon and theres a spymaster type one (thats more likely to see use)
shut jay
Oh right the new dungeon one
fiery grove
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
still have no idea how fatebound works, rereading the tree for the first time in months just in case
something something flip coin
something heads
something tails
warm marlin
apparently the damage proc of the spymaster trinket isn't even bad
that thing is gonna be busted
twilit phoenix
still have no idea how fatebound works, rereading the tree for the first time in...
Fatebound sub gonna go crazy
novel vector
Am I trippin or is sub tierset kinda boring compared to sin and outlaw? Double coup seems cool but the deathstalker bonuses seems very uninspired
swift tinsel
nah ds set just kinda objectively sucks
tribal blade
ds set is very last minute homework
twilit phoenix
Double coup cdr will be interesting
tribal blade
it has a cool idea of cycling marks faster, just barely scratches the surface
i have a feeling the trickster set will be very impactful for sub
tribal blade
ds is gonna become even more unplayable for sub
next tier
trickster gonna be SWIMMING in cdr
i'm looking at my best locken parse, i got 14 coup casts
so it would become 28 with new tier
that's 70 CPs worth of extra cdr
warm marlin
so many flawless form stacks
fleet wharf
Will that let us dance one more time between cds?
tepid trellis
Mayhaps
fleet wharf
How do you guys feel about assa also being able to do 1.5 min cds with the coin talents?
warm marlin
Will that let us dance one more time between cds?
or you end up using the buffer cdr to allow more time to stack sht and coups
fleet wharf
sht?
fleet wharf
so many acryonyms lol
tepid trellis
How do you guys feel about assa also being able to do 1.5 min cds with the coin ...
Absolutely fucking braindead
fleet wharf
yea, on one hand, I liked specs having distinct niches, but I could also see assa liking that flexibility
tribal blade
How do you guys feel about assa also being able to do 1.5 min cds with the coin ...
stepping on what sub does now
for some reason
tepid trellis
First gotta proc the coin
native zodiac
its guaranteed im p sure now
tepid trellis
Its so fcking dumb
fleet wharf
on the opener from what the pinned post says
tribal blade
this is just classic blizz giving sin what all the other rogue specs have
tepid trellis
Just delete sub
fleet wharf
we might not be far away unfortunately
tepid trellis
Fcking joke
twilit phoenix
sub 1.5 min niche bangs
tribal blade
it's actually kinda crazy
twilit phoenix
i don't think long-term they'll leave it like that ngl
tribal blade
for sin to have the option of being 2 different cd timings like that
twilit phoenix
we might have a scuffed double 1.5 min spec for a tier or two
fleet wharf
next they'll let assa move its cds around between cds and it's all over
warm marlin
no way assa is actually playing fatebound right
i havent been keeping up but isnt the ds set good for them
fleet wharf
they might on some fights for better cd lineups
native zodiac
that tierset is not even close to what dust was tbh
tribal blade
prob not in aoe
bleak night
fatebound still has the issue of being fatebound
fleet wharf
i mean I like sub so I'm gonna try to make it work but it seems like you can very easily just one trick assa and be completely fine?
native zodiac
fatebound just loses a shit ton of value as soon as theres adds involved @warm marlin thats why ds is so dominant
tepid trellis
If they end up fixing FB being a massive loss in more than 1 target
Its gonna be good
fleet wharf
fatebound still has the issue of being fatebound
what are some issues other than shit aoe?
randomness?
bleak night
well the coin is guaranteed in opener with 2p
fleet wharf
I've not touched fatebound yet
bleak night
the problem is you literally lose damage if there is more than one target
tribal blade
sounds like DS sin will be quite bursty
bleak night
and if next tier is anything like this one there never wont be adds
tribal blade
if you're gonna need to play a 1.5 min spec in raid might as well just play sub
tepid trellis
if you're gonna need to play a 1.5 min spec in raid might as well just play sub
Well just Tune sub like shit. And you wont need to FB assa Got you
tribal blade
Well just Tune sub like shit. And you wont need to FB assa Got you
it'll probably happen sadly
tepid trellis
Cuz clearly sub isnt allowed to have anything in this game
tribal blade
honestly i started laughing when i read the sin fb tier set
"there's no shot this is happening"
tepid trellis
Will see but might be my last tier. Out of stuff that keeps me wanting to play
tribal blade
this is gonna be my last season of key pushing
i'm already feeling the future fomo right now
but i think it's time
twilit phoenix
tribal blade
my dad also got diagnosed with early stage of alzeihmers so it's a good time to do it
tepid trellis
They have a bit of time to show they give a shit about rogue. And if not im just gonna dip
tribal blade
we're already off to a horrendous start haha
that single rogue change so far
wheeeee
fleet wharf
They have a bit of time to show they give a shit about rogue. And if not im just...
looking at what DK got I feel they'll eventually get to rogues copium
tribal blade
like once again
looking through the notes to see paragraphs upon paragraphs for everything else
tepid trellis
we're already off to a horrendous start haha
Just like last 2 tiers
swift tinsel
Was playing around with new fdk talents and they’re bangers so I’ll probably play that if I come back this season
Empower Breath is low-key fun
chrome palm
Frost in my guild thought it was weird it’s like desynced from everything
short radish
and then rogue is basically nothing
dont worry this is just the first release of the ptr notes. i'm sure there will be more
tepid trellis
Well. Is shit and plays like shit is two different things
bleak night
plays like shit
fleet wharf
Do they add more to PTR after the initial notes?
swift tinsel
The cdr element was lining up with pillar/DB nicely idk
tepid trellis
dont worry this is just the first release of the ptr notes. i'm sure there will ...
Yeah more hunter and mage changes are on the way
chrome palm
Usually just updates to respond to feedback
tepid trellis
Do they add more to PTR after the initial notes?
Usually yeah
swift tinsel
Outlaw rejoice, they got the attention this cycle
swift tinsel
The one crumb
chrome palm
I’m gonna lose my mind how hunter gets 5 paragraphs every patch
short radish
oh and im sure some stuff about assi will be dropped
tepid trellis
Fuck outlaw
native zodiac
tbf that outlaw change with killing spree should have been made when they made the hero talent trickster for them
tepid trellis
Fuck hunters
swift tinsel
Fuck Bob Duato
chrome palm
tbf that outlaw change with killing spree should have been made when they made t...
Criminal they made people play that buggy dogshit for the whole tier lmao
Literally a fight in the raid that is impossible to use it on
tribal blade
tbf that outlaw change with killing spree should have been made when they made t...
it's at least a very good change
short radish
why won't blizzard notice me 
fleet wharf
tribal blade
but there needs to be like x10 more of that spread across all 3 specs
chrome palm
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/741275386188529734/1372656620034592869/38...
This criminal waited 1 min into the fight to kill everyone
fleet wharf
pour one out for our boy ks
tribal blade
still waiting for the day they adress cdr on sub rogue
they unironically kind of did with the trickster 4pc
chrome palm
I like the zac clips of him falling into the floor with killing spree
tribal blade
but it just makes DS even more unplayable for sub
tepid trellis
Good
tribal blade
btw wtf does the "increased effects" of ds 2pc mean
tepid trellis
Plague dmg
tribal blade
oh is that it
tepid trellis
Yup
tepid trellis
but it just makes DS even more unplayable for sub
Just make sub unplayable give me my 13th reason to quit
tribal blade
Just make sub unplayable give me my 13th reason to quit
TRUE
tribal blade
does it not also work on the dn dmg?
yeah i thought maybe it might, which in that case DS would be really good for sin
tepid trellis
does it not also work on the dn dmg?
Tbh its probs just a blanket 30 aura to everything on the tree
fleet wharf
Assa might actually be the more complicated spec next tier right?
tepid trellis
Good for Them. They should take subs tankyness next and give it to assa
tribal blade
from reading this one thing would be you can't press shiv if DN is up
native zodiac
i mean you most likely just press shiv when you have 1 or more marks
tribal blade
yeah exactly
native zodiac
and then prob the same rule as now with lingering
tepid trellis
Nah goes to assa
tribal blade
😦
tepid trellis
Sry bud
tribal blade
arcane and sin exists
native zodiac
they can take our niches but they cant take our bugs
tribal blade
but combo for sub is too much
tepid trellis
We arent about funnel anymore we are outlaw lite
bleak night
probably
tribal blade
i dunno if this is my guild memeing
fleet wharf
wait DH got nothing in patch notes except for pvp
tribal blade
bleak night
yeah because they cant drop the new spec yet
tribal blade
this is me talking out of my ass from stuff the dh in my guild is talking about
i have 0 clue if this is real or not
remote eagle
is it too early to doom bc of no changes?
bleak night
theres apparently a few signs that there is a void dh spec coming
fleet wharf
the only thing I've heard is that they are being teased in a similar way to aug was teased before being added to the game
bleak night
idk anything about it
shut jay
i have 0 clue if this is real or not
there are some questionable screenshots
short radish
is it too early to doom bc of no changes?
just continue and carry over the doom from this patch to next
dooming is eternal
warm marlin
i have 0 clue if this is real or not
seems quite real
tribal blade
is it too early to doom bc of no changes?
usually would say yes, but with how things have gone the past few tiers no
bleak night
theres some actual spell data and stuff too
but also some random pictures that might just be ai
fleet wharf
man, it would suck if dh slurps up all of the kyveza and void themed stuff up
warm marlin
its either a void spec or like customization options to change all your spell animations and stuff like glyphs
remote eagle
i saw tons of healthy changes to shadowpriest and was excited that devs actually started doing their work but then i saw rogue tab lul
bleak night
with the void dh boss being optional
it might just be like the green fire for warlocks
shut jay
bleak night
and be a recolor
warm marlin
this is fake though
bleak night
yeah thats the probably fake picture i was talking about
tribal blade
i saw tons of healthy changes to shadowpriest and was excited that devs actually...
yup this has been rogue life the entire of TWW
especially sub
bleak night
well spriest was due its annual rework
fleet wharf
only the 17th one bro
short radish
they'll get it right this time
swift tinsel
If those shitbag demon hunters get our kyveza animations I’m boycotting sub
remote eagle
spriest is even more dogshit than sub rn
tribal blade
someone is gonna have to put gestalt on suicide watch
fleet wharf
spriest is even more dogshit than sub rn
hey that's my main
remote eagle
mine too, used to be
fleet wharf
i seem to have an affinity for shitty specs
remote eagle
i need more shitty specs to reroll
short radish
i seem to have an affinity for shitty specs
same with my affinity for playing specs without a good raidbuff
remote eagle
cant get invited into 17s cuz its strictly meta comps :C
tribal blade
people care so little about dr that half the player base doesn't know atrophic exists
swift tinsel
I’m preemptively mad about this dh thing
bleak night
lmao
swift tinsel
Bc it’s gonna happen
fleet wharf
yea, kyveza's whole theme was being an assassin, I really hope we get the void themed shit
short radish
people care so little about dr that half the player base doesn't know atrophic e...
the fact that the atrophic stacking DR bug exists and no one has bothered to abuse it, nor has blizzard bothered to patch it shows the state of rogue
fleet wharf
but actually they pull a quick one and gives the void animations to assassination because fuck sub
swift tinsel
Nah give it to the edgelord spec
tribal blade
the fact that the atrophic stacking DR bug exists and no one has bothered to abu...
yeah i was shocked to find out about it
swift tinsel
Fuck them
short radish
and the fact that it's existed this long as well lmao
fleet wharf
Nah give it to the edgelord spec
wait you want dks to get them?
swift tinsel
Nah they have some sick ones already
tribal blade
yeah you would think people would have found it out, then started stacking x2 rogues
swift tinsel
Plus the new ones they just got today
swift tinsel
Mostly played frost but I really like it
short radish
yeah you would think people would have found it out, then started stacking x2 ro...
we had 3 rogues on razagath before. perhaps its time to bring it back
fleet wharf
does it always take like 30 minutes to copy your characters in ptr?
swift tinsel
Just drowning in procs
native zodiac
the fact that the atrophic stacking DR bug exists and no one has bothered to abu...
nobody plays rogue p much, rare to find a guild with 2 rogues nowadays
tribal blade
3 rogues unheard of
bleak night
ok but we have one button rotation now
short radish
yeah our guild is wack with how many overlapping classes we have
bleak night
just multibox and play a second rogue yourself
short radish
we have had 3 warlocks since sanctumn
swift tinsel
Locked into frostscythe and glacial advance which is a muscle memory change but they can get auto RW
native zodiac
we had 5 mages for a short time this tier
tribal blade
having multiple locks is good though
swift tinsel
And ERW is different in a fun way
bleak night
yeah our guild is wack with how many overlapping classes we have
my guild has spent this whole tier trying to get multiple of each class
tribal blade
considering how turbo required they are for everything
swift tinsel
It’s kinda like sod
swift tinsel
Same lol
short radish
yeah i know. other guilds out there begging for one warlock meanwhile we have 3
native zodiac
been the only rogue since amirdrassil 😎
swift tinsel
Our rl is gearing his outlaw tho
tribal blade
yeah i'm the only rogue in my guild too lol
bleak night
outlaw raid leading holy
short radish
my guild has spent this whole tier trying to get multiple of each class
same. our RL wants to have enough flex to have one of each
warm marlin
yeah i'm the only rogue in my guild too lol
same
swift tinsel
Yeah he’s leading as ret atm
short radish
i even had a rogue mate to recommend
warm marlin
something tells me theres not many rogues out there
short radish
but our roster to full and also who cares about rogue buff that much
swift tinsel
I was seriously the only max-level rogue in our guild until like a week or two ago lol
tribal blade
my favorite thing is guildies playing their alt rogues and slowly discovering that it's not a simple class
native zodiac
something tells me theres not many rogues out there <:garf:1320173032743899157>
there realy isnt, im p sure last time i looked we are one of the least played dps spec even with 3 dps specs put together
short radish
something tells me theres not many rogues out there <:garf:1320173032743899157>
honestly theres a surprising amount of them at the higher level
swift tinsel
Outside of one guy who pvps sometimes
short radish
like overall we're the lowest
swift tinsel
Lol we had two evokers before two rogues
short radish
but feels like there's still a decent amount of us out there
swift tinsel
One pres one Aug
short radish
delete aug
warm marlin
I only have my spot in my current guild because literally every single prior rogue or potential rogues they would have asked quit
fleet wharf
Aug barely got shit this ptr
swift tinsel
If I don’t play one next tier I don’t think we’ll have one
bleak night
at this point its just rogue and warrior we only have one of
oh and monk bc both of ours left
so tank swapped to brew
swift tinsel
We have a couple of fotm rerollers but I think we have two of most classes
short radish
If I don’t play one next tier I don’t think we’ll have one
and nothing of value was lost
or something
(the class not you)
swift tinsel
No one to hoover the mastery/vers dagger drops from second boss next season
Quick look has us decently itemized tho
native zodiac
jokes on your bro we gonna be crafting a dagger with the same emb for the 3rd time in a row
warm marlin
once again early boss with mast/vers dagger into late boss with crit/mast dagger
swift tinsel
Necks, rings good too
native zodiac
the loot this raid is p good tbf
bleak night
who cares about itemization, tell me which off pieces we get of other leather tier for transmog
warm marlin
there are a lot of vers mast pieces in the rotation
warm marlin
plus we won't have hoc weighing down our mastery valuation anymore
can invest a lot more into it
warm marlin
spymaster lite on top
warm marlin
unlike spymaster you don't need to wait for it to full stack
if you just cast it at 90s its 33k agility
and the damage proc is actually quite good on its own
swift tinsel
Yeah, I’m gonna play around with sending different stacks but that sounds pretty nice
The other stacking trinket is a lot closer to Eye for me atm
warm marlin
I think there's a world you cast it early with 2 stacks in your very first burst then hold for 3mins but we'll see
swift tinsel
Wait I have that reversed. The auto-consume one
Is like 1.5ish to 2.25mins to stack so far
Brain is cooked spaghetti atm
swift tinsel
Void one will be hard to game a bit bc rupture ticks can add stacks so hovering at 13-14 will be tricky
Esp if you want it to proc in flag
Bc then you’re going in with no rupture
warm marlin
idk that one seems kinda unlikely
swift tinsel
Yeah
warm marlin
again it also only lasts 10s
swift tinsel
It’s early days, they may change them
warm marlin
super hard to game properly
swift tinsel
Yeah that one was more of a “what if” kind of thing
sly sleet
n00bie trying to practice my sub rotation, is our burst during flag/sb supposed to be as high as it is during the opener? Trying to figure out where I'm going wrong
swift tinsel
I haven’t looked too hard at the others, the pacemaker is back plus another pacemaker-ish one added
The rest seemed kinda meh when I was perusing
Uhdk down bad bc no 1.5min for them
warm marlin
generic crit proc
warm marlin
could also definitely be pacemaker if we end up doing the 3min thing
swift tinsel
Too annoyed with too many things, love going to bed like that lol
Wait going 3mins is on the table?
Yikes
warm marlin
no not really
swift tinsel
Oh thank god lol
warm marlin
just a long shot cook of holding spymaster stacks for 3mins
not holding flag for 3mins
pacemaker would line up well
swift tinsel
Ah so treating it like maghar racial
warm marlin
ye
native zodiac
i reckon the use of that trinket is gonna depend a lot on the encounters aswell
warm marlin
for sure
swift tinsel
Idk, not really hyped at all for sub as it stands
swift tinsel
Might fiddle with sin/outlaw tomorrow
swift tinsel
Does atrophic poison overlap/stack
Thought so
hexed sluice
where are we seeing the loot tables, im only seeing cosmetics and other bullshit on wowhead
swift tinsel
On ptr
Vendors have most trinkets and dungeon journal has everything from m+ and raid
Tier sets are also on ptr but ours is currently scuffed
warm marlin
on the topic of how good the spymaster's trinket will be
I saw a details of it doing like 4% of someone's damage
and it gives more primary stat than a 723 transmitter
scaled up
fleet wharf
is it if you hold until it fully stacks?
fleet wharf
that's fucking sick
warm marlin
if you ever need to hold a bit for mechanics or anything
you just get more free value
3.7k extra primary on your burst for every 10s held
fleet wharf
But i dunno, you don't have anything for your opener, that was really annoying if you were using spymaster in S1
keen dome
Good morning. Did they make us more purple on the ptr.
tulip gorge
With the new trickster tier sets, is sub going to have an extra dance window due to the extra cdr?
tribal blade
Good morning. Did they make us more purple on the ptr.
i have really bad news for you
it looks like they're giving the kyveza animations to the new dh spec
unironically
runic trail
it looks like they're giving the kyveza animations to the new dh spec
Blizz, pls
keen dome
Well the only image I can find for it is clearly fake
so I'm firmly on "Nah, no chance" until I see it actively on the PTR and playable
tribal blade
so I'm firmly on "Nah, no chance" until I see it actively on the PTR and playabl...
we hope so
i just had the most classic sub experience
runic trail
no sub changes is wild
Patch is still 8 weeks out so there's still time
tribal blade
doing dfc>hey i can play sub>swap to sub>hey there's no sham in the group>swap back to sin
keen dome
the killing spree stuff is cool at least
runic trail
the killing spree stuff is cool at least
Yeah, happy for the outlaws for that one
pearl swan
Patch is still 8 weeks out so there's still time
ive seen this before
keen dome
About time they changed it.
I'm fully expecting we won't get anything going into 11.2 aynway.
And it'll be the same cycle
Sub is good on early prog. Sub is fine but nothing speical. We fall off because other classes are stronger. We get a buff to middle of the pack
Rinse repeat
I imagine it'll just result in less and less people sticking to the spec as people migrate to other things.
tribal blade
the trickster tier set sounds sick af
keen dome
It does
runic trail
I'm just learning sub because I want add damage in raid, also something new might be fun
keen dome
Hell yeah
tribal blade
i'm gonna play sub on my next reclear
keen dome
Assa getting a 90s change with tier is super interesting, too. That's quite a dynamic tier set.
tribal blade
because sin's timings are fucking wack right now
all the bosses are dying too fast now
dry plank
If they give kyveza animations to dh I’m reroll dh
keen dome
If they give DH anything it's either goign to be ranged, healing or another suppot imo
Because otherwise you are just giving them another DPS spec which competes with Vengance and immediately create a balance issue there. It needs to be something more than just "it does purple slashes and this one does green"
fleet wharf
DH getting the 2nd support spec ever in wow history would be pretty ~~interesting ~~weird
dry plank
Warrior exist and dh can 🙂
keen dome
Warrior exist and dh can 🙂
The difference is those have been in the game since the start. If DH launched with 3 specs like that, sure.
It'd be like if they added a 4th Rogue spec that used two daggers.
I think if they put the time in to develop an entire new spec, it's going to fill a niche that the current class doesn't have.
Be it ranged, suppot, healing, tanking, etc.
dry plank
Tanking?
keen dome
In general, I mean.
dry plank
Ah ok
keen dome
It's why I think them adding a third spec and it just being Vengance But Purple is unlikely.
fleet wharf
But on to the purple theme, the new dagger and fist weapon look pretty cool
keen dome
Hell yeah
short radish
i find it extremely funny that we have yet another melee spec in the game
and when i say extremely funny
i dont mean extremely funny at all
i mean absolutely fucking stupid
keen dome
Also a DH not using warglavies would be funny
runic trail
What's the new spec, did I miss this on patch notes?
short radish
What's the new spec, did I miss this on patch notes?
void demon hunters
keen dome
Speculation. I don't think it's real or will exist.
fleet wharf
What's the new spec, did I miss this on patch notes?
new tier set weeeee
runic trail
new tier set weeeee
Ye I saw that, also killing spree changed hell yeah
Still never playing outlaw but I'm happy for the outlaw people
fleet wharf
Oh you mean for rogues in general, yes KS shouldn't be grief to use any more
I might give it a go, I finally got enough haste pieces to try it in M+ now
short radish
Oh you mean for rogues in general, yes KS shouldn't be grief to use any more
i mean youre still moving around at 20% speed
runic trail
I might give it a go, I finally got enough haste pieces to try it in M+ now
I have a MH weapon for it but yeah, I'm normally too comfy in my normal spec to swap ever
short radish
so it wont put you in stupid mechanics
i dont get why blizzard is so keen on putting animation locks
fleet wharf
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/741275386188529734/1372656620034592869/38...
For something like this
short radish
i guess its a channel so it's TECHnIcAllY NoT aN AniMATiOn LOCk
but
they could just
make the animation happen
while not locking you
fleet wharf
just like the charge we had
short radish
like it summons shadow clones to shoot pistols or something
summer lynx
Do you think well see any changes towars Sub coming? Kinda underwhelming seeing barely anything for rogue over all.
runic trail
Also, shadowmeld potion is weird, why not just let us select a racial independent of which race we play at this point
keen dome
Do you think well see any changes towars Sub coming? Kinda underwhelming seeing ...
probably not
keen dome
Also, shadowmeld potion is weird, why not just let us select a racial independen...
🙏 It'd be such an easy and good solution
talent tree of every racial. Unlock them or have themj ust available. Pick any. Bingo bongo winzo
fleet wharf
But then they'd lose out on racial change service they sell
runic trail
My boy was born a troll and he'll die a troll but being able to racial select would be nice
short radish
Also, shadowmeld potion is weird, why not just let us select a racial independen...
because blizzard are stupid monkeys that are slapping a bandaid solution onto a problem of their own creation
molten citrus
i mean youre still moving around at 20% speed
It’s only -20%
Not “you move at 20%”
short radish
But then they'd lose out on racial change service they sell
i honestly believe this is the real reason
short radish
It’s only -20%
oh okay thats not bad then
runic trail
But then they'd lose out on racial change service they sell
Just treat it like ff14 and fantasia, have it be cheap and people use it purely for aesthetics
fleet wharf
line must go up
short radish
just press sprint beforehand
molten citrus
Rogue is already fastafboi
runic trail
You want to look different? Here, drop £5 on fantasia
molten citrus
So -20% is completely manageable imo
fleet wharf
the current race change is a bit overpriced tbf and also pretty annoying to actually go through isn't it?
like it's not seamless and you have to redo a bunch of shit even after you race change? I haven't bought it but saw some streamers deal with that shit
tribal blade
blizzard is really into micro transaction money
keen dome
I doubt it makes a lot. They're going to be making more off people doing it for asethetics than mechanics.
tribal blade
it's very annoying
tribal blade
I doubt it makes a lot. They're going to be making more off people doing it for ...
yeah that's a good point
serene notch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen dome
Also, if they were so determined to milk race changes why would they add a potion doing the effect haha
tribal blade
the majority of the playerbase are not doing high end content
short radish
Also, if they were so determined to milk race changes why would they add a potio...
so they swap back to dwarf
runic trail
If they dropped like a £5 option I'd be more tempted to use it for aesthetic changes for alts, than at it's current price
keen dome
"Damn, we can get 6 people to race change with this change. Think of the money!"
tribal blade
i thought at first this was screwing me over being nelf, but now i think it'll still be good having meld
tribal blade
meld is always powerful in M+
warm marlin
just press sprint beforehand
you can still cast feint, grapple, cloak, etc during it
and sprint during it
its not a scary button at all anymore
short radish
noice
wispy bolt
theyres actually no way they make anew dh and give it kyveza abnimations
that has to be fake news
i will unsub if true
lucid jackal
Double coup looks really good for sub
wispy bolt
also our tier set looks so good but theres no way we makle it through to live being good in m+ guarneteed not allowed
lucid jackal
Exceited to see what the rotation looks like
keen dome
Same
keen dome
Would be cool fi we can fit another dance in because of it
short radish
i am but at the same time i dont want it to be some weird cringe shit where we're holding forever to fit 3 dances into flagblades
lucid jackal
Would be cool fi we can fit another dance in because of it
its a lot of CDR yeah
wispy bolt
i am but at the same time i dont want it to be some weird cringe shit where we'r...
lol thats what it always turns in to
tribal blade
i am but at the same time i dont want it to be some weird cringe shit where we'r...
mm you bring up a scary point
keen dome
The 2p giving us more procs of unseen so more coups is probably going to help.
lucid jackal
I think DSM could elad to some neat gameplay too
We might go flat SUb with all this CDR and added dance uptime who knows
We are going to have soooo much more CDR in the spec
short radish
like this current rotation of sub feels really fucking nice and clean
send off cooldown
fallow nimbus
Maybe 3 dances with cds into just 1 between
short radish
only annoying thing is tier set
but thats whatever
dont want some weird cringe bs where we end up holding for 2 minutes due to trinket as well
wispy bolt
no way we make it to the patch being decent at aoe tho. many ptr nerfs incoming
if its good
lucid jackal
dont want some weird cringe bs where we end up holding for 2 minutes due to trin...
There's a 1:30 already
lilac stag
Wait for it to be a 30% tier increase and their design goal for tier to be 10% increase only to get gutted week before patch goes live. 
wispy bolt
assa getting special treament
lucid jackal
Can u shut up
keen dome
I still wish Trickster had better themeing..
short radish
There's a 1:30 already
yeah but this is kinda fucking strong no?
warm marlin
decays
short radish
true
warm marlin
unless it gets omega nerfed the melee spymasters is tuned absurdly high rn
fleet wharf
it's also 2 min we wouldn't want to use it though right?
keen dome
Ye
formal helm
yeah but this is kinda fucking strong no?
melee spymasters 
warm marlin
itll probably just be busted
formal helm
fuck this
keen dome
Just so much stat
formal helm
the thing that kinda annoys me
keen dome
Dev's going to absolutely supernova
formal helm
is why's one tier so full of good trinkets
and then there's tiers where there's only garbage.
keen dome
Wonder how much the perma-thing will cost or if it'll be in their raid rep track
If they do the raid rep track again
hollow spear
My money is on melee spymaster getting gigaclapped tuning wise
formal helm
My money is on melee spymaster getting gigaclapped tuning wise
oh same
but we can cope
keen dome
grieftorch my beloved
warm marlin
dinars again
formal helm
they either cap it or lower the stat probably
warm marlin
hopefully
formal helm
grieftorch my beloved
I hated that trinket so much
keen dome
Could they put them earlier this time
formal helm
but it was so good.
shrewd lantern
i liked bugging it
shrewd lantern
and doing like half my damage
hollow spear
I like that it's main stat though, so it won't mess with our secondaries
short radish
I hated that trinket so much
it was great with the weak aura
warm marlin
im more afraid that there will just be omega competition for the spymaster
formal helm
it was great with the weak aura
I'm not saying it wasn't good
warm marlin
and if sub isnt tuned highly it will be unlikely to get
short radish
spymaster is a m+ trinket though right?
formal helm
it was just that I hated it doing so much dmg
hollow spear
I have to be in bed with our officers
formal helm
spymaster is a m+ trinket though right?
hope so?
hollow spear
From the get go
formal helm
ffs.
keen dome
At least we have some nice passive options from M+
formal helm
I'm never getting the mythic variant 
warm marlin
there is a hoc lite on use from m+ though
lilac stag
It’ll be ok
formal helm
thank fuck
keen dome
Nice
formal helm
altho pvp set's kinda nice
keen dome
Easy to farm a hero one
hollow spear
Sub might like it better than other classes though
formal helm
might go for 1.8k for it
hollow spear
Because of our damage profile
warm marlin
Sub might like it better than other classes though
I think this is probably likely
like arcane was by far the best user of spymasters iirc
they are the only spec still using it this tier
on occasion
hollow spear
So even if we're weaker overall, it might put us in competition for the trinket
That's my copium take
keen dome
I find it funny how the expansion is called The War Within and we're off to another planet now
short radish
So even if we're weaker overall, it might put us in competition for the trinket
"sorry HoC is so good for you from last tier that you dont have prio for trinkets this tier"
hollow spear
I mean, look at how good transmitter was for us
shrewd lantern
im surprised they didnt bring back seat
keen dome
Same
shrewd lantern
since ethereals
hollow spear
HoC was absolute garbage compares to transmitter
maiden oar
if you send flag at 30s on gally can you get it done before the blazes go off or are you just gambling? currently doing the lorrgs timings but with flag #1 at 0:00 so i dont have to gamble since im not greeding blazes in prog
lilac stag
Gamba
hollow spear
Took multiple nerfs to a trinket with 26 less ilvl
warm marlin
if you send flag at 30s on gally can you get it done before the blazes go off or...
boss hitbox is the size of a city u can play it safe and still hit him
formal helm
I find it funny how the expansion is called The War Within and we're off to anot...
it's within another plant, duh
hollow spear
To make heroic HoC better
formal helm
planet*
maiden oar
boss hitbox is the size of a city u can play it safe and still hit him
ah ok
hollow spear
Our rl requires us to run to China with that
formal helm
boss hitbox is the size of a city u can play it safe and still hit him
dimensius making it so this is on a whole 'nother level
keen dome
What if they changed Killing Spree because of the final boss hitbox
shrewd lantern
watch him still parry
maiden oar
ty
formal helm
What if they changed Killing Spree because of the final boss hitbox
I mean
you'd probably get a fucking loading screen if it still worked the same way
or imagine poor healers
trying to heal you
keen dome
You hit KS and then have to spend 3 minutes running back
formal helm
while you dart around a fucking planet sized boss
formal helm
true
keen dome
Absolutely
formal helm
or it'd spawn you 100 m above
short radish
cant wait to shadowstep to this boss and somehow load into argus
keen dome
I'm certain it was changed because of very constant feedback oni t being shit but
formal helm
and you'd fall down to your death
keen dome
the timing is very funny
warm marlin
hit ks -> teleport into 18 swirls and effects around the city -> come back with 9 dots and "Killing Spree ticking for 27% on me!"
shrewd lantern
I mean
formal helm
cant wait to shadowstep to this boss and somehow load into argus
shadowstrike on opener and end up dead
or in some classic dungeon
hollow spear
hit ks -> teleport into 18 swirls and effects around the city -> come back with ...
Instantly becoming your healers' favourite player
I mean at least on farm they could use you to parse
formal helm
true
shrewd lantern
someone goes dark iron
shrewd lantern
to secretly get 9 debuffs
formal helm
if that happened.
runic trail
but I think some of my healers would cry
If you're not making your healers cry, are you even playing DPS correctly?
formal helm
fair.
tulip token
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sweet turret
just saw that sub is doing best in simc, why is that?
sweet turret
or am i reading it wrong
sweet turret
I mean in dungeon slice
sweet turret
damn
cloud rover
tribal blade
sims aren't really a good reflection of actual dps
sin is doing more than sub
right now
cloud rover
And Prophet does more than most of the Sins