See how many people explode
#subtlety
keen dome
clever delta
it dosnt even matter now since coin do not kill
(not like it was killing rogues on progg either xdd )
fallow nimbus
The calls are "coin left...ahh right...i missed" the add yes but not the 3 ranges 
runic trail
But ye Ret pally coin duty, my guild is... Special
keen dome
Hahaha
runic trail
It was our least bad option 
keen dome
If it works, it works
clever delta
if it works, its not stupid
runic trail
If it works, it works
He fucked himself by doing it very well when asked to try it.
He did callouts and stuff
fallow nimbus
We have a wa that just tts "coin"
vocal wolf
(not like it was killing rogues on progg either xdd )
I got boped more than s few times sure to this ngl
clever delta
haha they never boped me đ
vocal wolf
I thank my hpal
clever delta
tank was saving for himself iour ret was benched
vocal wolf
I run keys with him too, he knows I'm a KS griefer
clever delta
i think
jaunty heath
i had a prophecy last night SUB will rise again to the mountaintop wallahi
tribal blade
gloomy slate
any1 know why sub gets nerfed until it was bottom spec in the game but evoker can be top 3 entire tier and untouched?
asking for a friend
tepid trellis
well it wasent nerfs that did it
gloomy slate
werent there nerfs early on in the tier?
tepid trellis
we got nerfed a week before the patch came out
then other classes got buffed
and we were untouched until a few weeks ago
vocal wolf
Also it's relative, sub had a high baseline, but that was it pretty much
gloomy slate
yeah we're like draven, good early but vayne outscales 
vocal wolf
then other classes got buffed
Pretty much this^
hazy breach
We pretty much had our bis trinket day 1 with transmitter
tepid trellis
- wep week 1
hazy breach
And we could craft a weapon insta, so we were pretty good early on
(compared to 2h classes who needs 2 sparks)
gloomy slate
so why the nerf prepatch then
hazy breach
Because sub was doing insane damage in the prepatch
gloomy slate
its like when exsang was nerfed in mythic 0 week in DF
lilac stag
The tier was too strong. The Sectech nerf was not justified.
gloomy slate
still feel like dev needed adjusting
tepid trellis
dev is turbo busted
so yeh
it does
thats kinda what happens when you take a top 8 spec
tidal chasm
part of the problem is we just scaled very badly this tier, due to our 3rd and 4th secondary scaling being worse than other classes & there being only 1 good trinket that was a marginal upgrade from transmitter
tepid trellis
and give it 6% more dmg
hazy breach
Has nothing to do with secondaries
gloomy slate
probably some1 at blizz rerolled dev evoker/and is a furry
like when they buff ret ST when they were top 5 in raid
tidal chasm
of course it does, as diminishing returns come in 3rd and 4th secondary matter
hazy breach
No
tidal chasm
ok explain then
tidal chasm
ok well dev is overtuned not what i was talking about
hazy breach
They rolled a +10% instead of a +2% on the blizzard dice
tidal chasm
a lot of other classes scale 3rd and 4th secondaries much better than sub
gloomy slate
a lot of other classes scale 3rd and 4th secondaries much better than sub
true
not sure why its so hard for blizz to make haste usable for sub
hazy breach
Youre vastly overestimating how much it matters
tidal chasm
i don't think i am but sure
gloomy slate
sub needs more options gear wise
the BS cards/transmitter or quit the game is silkly
silly*
hazy breach
The main things are that other classes got buffed a lot, while sub didnt (until recently, and now its good again) and the trinket thing
tepid trellis
way too many spinning wheels in wow for stats to be a remotely deciding factor
hazy breach
Secondaries scaling doesnt matter
short radish
the BS cards/transmitter or quit the game is silkly
you could run pvp trinket and it'd be okay
hazy breach
Sure somebody else might get +0.5% more because of the scaling
But if you get a +3% buff
That makes the scaling irrelevant
tidal chasm
Week 1-3 we were topping lots of logs or in the upper mid pack
short radish
yeah then it was all downhill from there
tidal chasm
we scaled bad
short radish
until a few weeks ago
vapid ridge
What's the pre-pull timer for Symbols of Death?
hazy breach
What's the pre-pull timer for Symbols of Death?
Literally anytime
short radish
What's the pre-pull timer for Symbols of Death?
23 seconds
hazy breach
The supercharger points last forever
short radish
just press it when you res
and then if your pull timer is 15 seconds
make sure its 15 seconds offcd before you hit ready
upbeat cradle
Me sitting here with 600 haste from the set helm that i can't get rid of 
the 0 haste dream isn't far away tho
hazy breach
Week 1-3 we were topping lots of logs or in the upper mid pack
Ye because we had crafted weapon and our bis trinket
While others had jackshit
gloomy slate
blizz should make it where every point of haste for sub = chance to proc combo points
hazy breach
You mean like it currently is
tepid trellis
they really should not
hazy breach
More haste = more combo points already
gloomy slate
sectech should scales off haste
gloomy slate
More haste = more combo points already
yeah indirectly, but its silly how bad it is
hazy breach
Its not that horrible
short radish
i vaguely recall there was some cook when the ShT change was announced, where the TCs were coming up with a stacking haste build
hazy breach
Big burst of haste is bad
lilac stag
we scaled bad
We scaled like everyone else. Rogues top end was 300-400k below others in ST max ilvl sims. Thatâs just tuning. they never tuned sub. Spec falls while others all rise. Itâs that simple.
hazy breach
Small haste across our downtime is fine
tepid trellis
gloomy slate
đ˘
short radish
with tomato sauce
tepid trellis
yeh
lilac stag
outlaw enjoyers in the chat
short radish
actually i didnt mind sepulcher sub. that was the combo point refund thing right?
tepid trellis
it was the full rng shit
short radish
yeah
tepid trellis
chance on finishers to proc shadow strikes
lilac stag
with tomato sauce
Ketchup
gloomy slate
A1 sauce
tepid trellis
and shadow strikes having a chance to proc blades
haughty mural
wasnât voti the gloomblade sub ?
gloomy slate
no Kap
keen dome
wasnât voti the gloomblade sub ?
I think that was Abberus?
short radish
tbh i was kinda vibing off it because every time i got a proc it'd play the drum beat
gloomy slate
dopamine
haughty mural
Still eww
gloomy slate
for adhd rogues
tepid trellis
it was absolute dog shit to play
i loved getting ranks 1
by just beeing turbo lucky
tepid trellis
and having shadow blades for 2min straight
gloomy slate
with legendary
tepid trellis
thank fuck for that
hazy breach
Probably due to you not being 16-22 or whatever you were when you were ultragaming that 
tepid trellis
think i was 13-14 back then
keen dome
Damn, someone older than me.
mental dune
maybe stupid question but
a lotta the times during dance windows im at 2 technique stacks
so i shadowstrike to 5 points
is it really better at that point to shadowstrike again n overcap just to evis on 6+?
or is there a way to avoid this situation altogether since it happens several times per pull
mental dune
đ
fair enough
just feels so yucky
hazy breach
Why
gloomy slate
Heâs probably ocd
Doesnât wanna waste combo points so wowanalyzer calls him a good boy
tepid trellis
tbf i hate doing it too
so many years of muscle memory of being combo point effecient to just not be it anymore
gloomy slate
Yeah
They should add a talent that finishers at exactly max combo points are 10% stronger
Boom fixed
mental dune
it just feeeeels good to get to shadowstrike evis nice n cleanly
esp since the duration isnt particularly long
gloomy slate
What are the boys playin nowadays between raid logging
swift tinsel
litte bit of Diablo IV, but besides that not really gaming much
gloomy slate
yeah i played sorc til pit 110 then realiozed they r bug abusing to do pit 123s
blizz needed to nerf that shit
swift tinsel
currently building out a death trap rogue but I need a few uniques yet
so I'm farming as dance of knives and speedrunning everything in the meantime
got into the season pretty late so I'm just kinda vibing
oak grotto
Is dungeonslice still legit?
short radish
for rogue yes*
oak grotto
Isnt it like 5 stacks per minute
So since bossfights usually last more than that, does that make it worth it
lilac stag
So since bossfights usually last more than that, does that make it worth it
Only 1 boss is worth it at this point, gally. Itâll have use next tier if not nerfed.
oak grotto
especially on progress
I meant bosses in m+, like use it for the last one in Rookery 19 or smth
lilac stag
and if you want to parse, it may not even be worth it since youâre worried about stage 1 adds
If you use it in m+ youâre subject to slow pulls and deaths. Would pass personally.
swift tinsel
if you can kinda play around keeping the stacks up in can be worth but that takes coordination so like fuu said not the most pug-friendly
hazy breach
I meant bosses in m+, like use it for the last one in Rookery 19 or smth
Yes use it when if you swap to sub for rookery
oak grotto
Yes use it when if you swap to sub for rookery
I main sub so I wont swap to sub for the last boss
swift tinsel
hazy breach
its prob not worth for the overall as youll be losing your stacks quite a bit
But its better for last boss
So up to you
dawn vector
I feel like I fudged this up a bit what did I do wrong?https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dw9jmzWYZK7fC8Vh?fight=18&type=damage-done
swift tinsel
your opener is pretty scuffed
hazy breach
I feel like I fudged this up a bit what did I do wrong?https://www.warcraftlogs....
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
dawn vector
oh right this is a really old log
swift tinsel
says its from saturday which isn't old
dawn vector
apart from the opener which I have learned I need to pre symbols before pull then shaowstrike flagellate rupture then shadowblades dance and so forth what else did I xmess up
yeh im sorry that one is a tad old
swift tinsel
your whole second cooldown window
vapid veldt
heya more of a really basic question but wowhead runs shiv in m+ build. When do u actually use shiv in m+?
dawn vector
I need to be using the cold blood with Sectek every other right?
swift tinsel
hazy breach
heya more of a really basic question but wowhead runs shiv in m+ build. When do ...
If you want to be dispelling any enrage effects
dawn vector
heya more of a really basic question but wowhead runs shiv in m+ build. When do ...
enrage
swift tinsel
your abilities are quite all over the place
vapid veldt
gotcha thanks!
dawn vector
hmm
swift tinsel
I'd say practice the opener/cooldown window and go from there
dawn vector
I did a test one just a few minutes ago how about this one
ignoring the parse thing
but just timeline casts
and thank you for your time â¤ď¸
swift tinsel
looks like you forgot to dance with your first symbols
dawn vector
oh I think I know why
the tank just pulled without timer
but yeh Isee what you mean
brittle plinth
I am loving this sub revival!
dawn vector
me too
brittle plinth
I'm dealing with the aftermaths of a 2 year olds stomach bug and the active chat has been sanity saving lol
swift tinsel
follow the bullet points from the post Eleem sent and that'll help
dawn vector
coup de gace is just a proc right
swift tinsel
you're sending a lot of sectechs without supercharger which is a big loss
dawn vector
can we get it at the same time
swift tinsel
its a stack from escalating blade
dawn vector
ah ok
swift tinsel
once you hit 4 it becomes coup
but getting stacks is somewhat random, outside of Disorienting Strikes and your first Shadowstrike
because of Thousand Cuts resetting the proc chance
without any indicator of when that chance resets
dawn vector
so lets say Im in a shadowdance cycle and I am about to hit sectec but dont have the supercharged should I just use a charge if an extra is available
it seems sometimes it gets used before I sectec
swift tinsel
using shadow dance is contingent upon having symbols ready, so you should never be in that scenario
dawn vector
ok
swift tinsel
and using symbols is typically contingent on using it to supercharge sectech
swift tinsel
np np
dawn vector
;I checked the pin too should help me alot
swift tinsel
since the vast majority of sub's damage is condensed into flag/blades windows, really nailing them will net you the biggest gain damage-wise
dawn vector
and we use vanish just to keep the unseen blade going ye?
swift tinsel
nah its mostly for cdr farming or evading mechanics
or in m+ to game The First Dance talent
but that second bit is a bit more of an advanced optimization to learn once you have the basics of the spec down
dawn vector
or in m+ to game The First Dance talent
game the first dance talent?
swift tinsel
the internal timer it uses to gauge when the talent takes effect is a bit wonky
dawn vector
olh is that like a hidden mechanic
swift tinsel
kind of
lucid jackal
Sub rogue is 99% learning your CD window
and ur doing the CD window wrong, as haptics said already
Every sectec needs to be supercharged, which means you only press symbols when sectec is 10 or less seconds on its CD timer
U can bump this up to 15 seconds when u get more comfy, if that finisher is a coup finisher
Supercharger is important
wild hornet
come to think about it i dont think ive been in a situation with coup and 15 sec cd on sectec yet
patent crystal
!wa
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
come to think about it i dont think ive been in a situation with coup and 15 sec...
itâs not super common but it happens
cosmic slate
hello! would appreciate some feedback (Jakereap)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/j7ncbzMBQ46CARHT?fight=17&type=damage-done
dawn vector
How yall feel about the possibility weakauras going away?
swift tinsel
hello! would appreciate some feedback (Jakereap)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/re...
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
vale pine
How yall feel about the possibility weakauras going away?
not good, it might mean other interface functions get locked too
i would prefere them adding a damage meter
instead of locking down the api for addons
steel jolt
it's going to be awesome! i'm sure it will be fully cooked and actively maintained just like the cooldown manager, which is a great addition to the game 
dawn vector
not good, it might mean other interface functions get locked too
Yeh I am a little worried myself
but yeh a damage meter would be awesome
vale pine
Its just weird, because addons are a central part of the game
in fact, i wish i could customize the UI of any game i play to the same degree
swift tinsel
I agree with the notion of not having them be computational problem solvers that trivialize raid mechanics, but that's an encounter design issue in most cases
dawn vector
THey just need to design raids better
lucid jackal
In what way
dawn vector
to add to your point haptics
dawn vector
Yeah. Well I just feel like alot of the WA bloat is due to too many things needing to be tracked
maybe over complex but you dont want to make something too easy either
lucid jackal
Somewhat true but not fully true
How original 2006 raids were done, and raids in classic wow with weakauras were done were two entierly different fights
brittle plinth
What's the modification to opener with tfd?
vale pine
weakauaras is mostly a problem because it now replaces addons in a not good way
lucid jackal
Weakauars even with extremely simple encounter design still augment how you do fights to an extreme degree
vale pine
because it means mythic bosses often require special weakaura managers and weakauras
dawn vector
yeah that makes sense I see what yall mean
dawn vector
I for one would like to not have to have 50 different WA's
But I would also like to keep my class hud
vale pine
and still more effort to maintain on your raid
lucid jackal
It doesn't matter how good encounters are designed when weakauras just exist
vale pine
it just in the end leads to a worse experience for everyone
but this experience is a self created ones from top guilds and players
its just that options chanegd over time
dawn vector
What are some things you will be doing if they do go away how do you approach your ui ?
What are your thoughts.
lucid jackal
Depends how they impliment any of this shit
Theres a good chance almost nothing changes for me
lucid jackal
Ill probs swap to blizzard details whenever that comes out
dawn vector
Lets just assume then that theres a;bsolutely zero WA access
lucid jackal
My guess is that weakauras will still allow you to make class hud type things, just less totally encounter defining stuff will be able to be tracked
dawn vector
say they change the code
lucid jackal
They already tried with private auras, but people found work arounds for that
vale pine
most of what weakauras does is just buff tracking
swift tinsel
No auto-marking
vale pine
if everything tracking is forbidden, you actually can't to much
swift tinsel
or auto-assigning
lucid jackal
Lets just assume then that theres a;bsolutely zero WA access
Try and configure the cooldown manage to actually track anything useful
lucid jackal
It all comes down to how they actually impliment any of this stuff
vale pine
you could not do a weakaura ui, because thats all buff/cooldown tracking
lucid jackal
I'm half expecting a lot of stuff to still just be working
swift tinsel
if they increased the customizability of the cooldown manager that would be a nice step but I don't think it would come anywhere close to the effectiveness of Weakauras
vale pine
exactly guy
swift tinsel
unless they do a collab
vale pine
we don't know anything, so can't rly say
serene notch
Getting rid of WA is fine but needs to be replaced with a close to 1:1 replacement
dawn vector
If all we have is the cooldown manager but no access then we just have to deal with the cooldown manager which idk how Id feel about that personally
lucid jackal
Really the only weakaura i actually want is my cooldown tracker
dawn vector
would be rough as hell
swift tinsel
that's 95% of my current weakaura suite
swift tinsel
is just better cooldown tracking over base UI
serene notch
I would welcome a native solution if it was well implemented
swift tinsel
with a few very niche conditions
swift tinsel
Oh man quartz, haven't heard that mentioned in a hot minute
serene notch
I have a feeling that no one is using the native cd tracker, cause itâs not fully fleshed out the drawback being blizz not getting any feedback.
vale pine
i mean
swift tinsel
which a lot of people use to make very personally-effective UI's
vale pine
as long as the baseline addons are not locked down
dawn vector
I have a feeling that no one is using the native cd tracker, cause itâs not full...
I have it on mine
vale pine
we can still mimic most functionality
swift tinsel
and then blizz drops a very obtuse iteration of their own
dawn vector
vale pine
e.g. there is already a addon to filter cooldowns on the blizz buff tracker
fierce minnow
so another addon to make the addon removing feature better
serene notch
Its going to be iterative, but adoption is slow which I think further delays improvements
vale pine
so another addon to make the addon removing feature better
basically addons to improve the baseline experience
which isn't a bad approach
vale pine
you can use addons to modify the blizz raid frames too by a lot making them equivalent to other addons like grid
swift tinsel
they're going up against a very robust system in Weakauras
fierce minnow
well i am the first one who cuts back addon use
vale pine
its just not used in a world where we have grid and other alternatives
wekauras is a additional failure source
rocky ocean
hi rogue
swift tinsel
I'm fine with paring down addons/auras if the Blizz replacement is well constructed
vale pine
you essentially add a second layer between, which gives more overhead
serene notch
Hard for them to overcome 2 decades of independent development.
swift tinsel
which, since they're just now adding their own replacements
plus weakauras has real-time support in their discord
something blizz can't touch from a QA standpoint
same with plater
dawn vector
I love plater
swift tinsel
it has wonderful functionality
vale pine
also many of platers featrues are probably not touched, as nameplates are already heavily restricted
the scripting stuff might be
swift tinsel
and scripting/modding makes iterating or customizing very nice
as far as cleaning up nameplate clutter
especially in m+
far exceeds what the base nameplates can achieve
dawn vector
default blizzard nameplates are kinda poop
vale pine
default blizzard nameplates are kinda poop
i use nameplatekai
swift tinsel
I use a very heavily customized Jundies profile and I'm quite happy with the relevant info and visual clarity it provides over the base plates
serene notch
I have not checked today but WA for me would lock my game for 5 secs and reload with artifacts all over , had to turn it off.
dawn vector
Do people play with zero ui?
vale pine
plater has basically the weakauras problem
where its bloated and has a high overhead
but people use it because streamers/players love to share their version
serene notch
Yea this is fact, the bloat in most addons is insane âŚ.its a continuum of customization vs convention. And addons do t have rails and tend to go hard on the customization.
fleet hearth
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
brittle plinth
Game has also come a long way on explaining mechanics in game vs vanilla where you just had to guess the cone or aoe
swift tinsel
I honestly have just as much fun customizing my UI as I do playing other parts of the game
brittle plinth
I just want the class packs to exist
Have you tried new CD assistant?
Not the rotational
brittle plinth
Just the manager
dawn vector
CD assistant?
brittle plinth
It's pretty good
dawn vector
serene notch
I honestly have just as much fun customizing my UI as I do playing other parts o...
Even then how many unused features are dragging performance for you underneath.
swift tinsel
CD manager has a ways to go before I'd ever consider using it
dawn vector
this? on the left
swift tinsel
Even then how many unused features are dragging performance for you underneath.
I don't really have unused features in mine
brittle plinth
I personally don't need alot of info like I am not going to track things that don't impact my decisions, so it's a bit overkill for me but do are class packs
swift tinsel
I'm very particular about what elements I have loaded and where
brittle plinth
this? on the left
It looks more like the one in the middle default
swift tinsel
you can save a fair bit of processing power by setting load conditions properly
dawn vector
It looks more like the one in the middle default
huh?
swift tinsel
I agree with your idea about not tracking/using things that don't affect your decision making
swift tinsel
because that saves a ton of visual noise from getting in the way
brittle plinth
because that saves a ton of visual noise from getting in the way
Absolutely
brittle plinth
Like I know I'm not a 99% player I don't need to track my fazed target or coup stacks. it'll be up when it's up as per my rotation when it's played properly.
Other ppl will say that's dumb
You need to adjust to info you can use
swift tinsel
I mean it's the kind of thing you can invest as much effort into as you feel is necesary for the content or level you're playing at
which I think a lot of people vastly overestimate
brittle plinth
I mean it's the kind of thing you can invest as much effort into as you feel is ...
Also means being honest with yourself haha
I am wasting a ton of resources on add counter atm
But fk me if I remember to bp
swift tinsel
and some of that stuff is fine if you're close enough
unless you're consistently within a few percentage of your sim best then its kinda whatever
and even then, fights usually have elements that arent reflected in your standard 5min patchwork sims
brittle plinth
Ya I do better with muscle memory than live decision making
Took me a while to arrive at those realities
Used to track everything
And never looked at it
swift tinsel
like for sub, my cd bar is sod, dance, escalating blade, sectech, flag, blades
oh and rupture
brittle plinth
Rupture not on plate?
swift tinsel
nah its a relic of setting it up before ever touching plater
brittle plinth
Other than escalating and rupture exactly the same as me
I did make draining vertical bars for dance sod flag
swift tinsel
was a bit more robust bc it also tracked the damage from the s3 tier set in df
which couldn't really do on nameplate
brittle plinth
Only flag one is useful I'm finding though may drop sod dance bar
serene notch
In the end I think everyone would like a native solution and not feel like they need WA addons to track meaningful decisions no matter how granular.
warm marlin
is there any 90s trinket in the dungeon rotation for s3
swift tinsel
not that I remember
brittle plinth
We have s3 rotation?
swift tinsel
I only remember the raid ones from Sepulcher
serene notch
I think puzzle is 2 min?
warm marlin
We have s3 rotation?
swift tinsel
phial was the only one I remember being worth farming
keen dome
Let's go K'areshiiiii
north socket
anyone seen this already?
keen dome
Neat
chrome palm
please god dont let deathstalker be good
north socket
i pray Trickster will be better
serene notch
https://www.wowhead.com/item=179350/inscrutable-quantum-device Inscrutable Quantum Device - Item - World of Warcraft
chrome palm
is there any 90s trinket in the dungeon rotation for s3
heres your 1:30 bud
warm marlin
keen dome
Tazavesh as a hub fuck yeah
serene notch
Kek
chrome palm
not for you 
serene notch
Dawnbreaker is such a buggy pile.
swift tinsel
Halls of Atonement 
keen dome
playable ethereals when
serene notch
Never saw the rotation till now, glad they did not go with plaguefall or DOS
swift tinsel
ngl that might be enough to resub for s3
I didn't mind plaguefall personally
DOS can stay dead and buried forever
swift tinsel
artifact?
serene notch
For sure, halls, spires and sanguine depths are just way better imo
keen dome
artifact?
cloak
We've been listening to feedback very carefully from this last season, and that's an important factor for us going forward.```spires 
lilac stag
Kekw. unholy before sub 
serene notch
Maybe I have rose tinted glasses but I liked it, also found it funny people would use corgi glasses so the big ass blue people would not block your view
vale pine
```Blizzard: Much like a lot of our approach to the War Within on Warbands, we w...
thats cool
swift tinsel
better be an overwhelming amount of purple
keen dome
Also they're changing dungeon checkpoints and making them visible which is cool
swift tinsel
if this be us, I'm a little underwhelmed
keen dome
Could be hunter.
serene notch
Help Veânari bring life back to Kâaresh with her eco-domes.
keen dome
But I suspect that's Rogue 'cos that's a Leather boot
serene notch
I liked that NPC
keen dome
Also peep the raid screenshots in the raid article
warm marlin
most tier sets are kinda gross but I like that one personally
vale pine
pc background-worthy
would probably use this one
keen dome
City. Sized. Raid Boss.
swift tinsel
now we just need the tier bonus reveal
I feel like season 1's appearance was more fitting for this kind of raid
keen dome
Yeah
swift tinsel
also if we aren't included in the 'and many more' Class Updates
keen dome
Yeah...
swift tinsel
nice to see brewmaster in the list tho
keen dome
Yeah!
lilac stag
Spriest is always awful
lilac stag
Just delete it
chrome palm
they removed mind sear which was like the only fun part of aoe
swift tinsel
use whichever cd aligns with the tier set/best trinket
chrome palm
unfurling darkness is the most unfun shit in the game
swift tinsel
sear was just aoe flay
warm marlin
void eruption spriest builds are fun
keen dome
Etheral Shadow Priests will go hard if we ever get them
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1226731.jpg Being able to see the checkpoint is gonna be so nice
chrome palm
can they just make me respawn at the boss in raid now :-)
fallow nimbus
Look at the patch being void guys focused and sub getting nothing
Also we have to play DS because the set will be busted because of assa 
swift tinsel
nah they always get "does X% more poison/bleed damage" sets so we're safe
keen dome
If we don't get Kyveza animations
swift tinsel
If we don't get Kyveza animations
thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis
there is literally
NO BETTER TIME
do it.
ffs.
Realz can you confirm
please
blink twice
lilac stag
Expecting more than 15 minutes of dev time spent on all three rogue specs combined.
keen dome
Please give us new animations. If we don't get playable ethereals and cool purple animations this patch I'll be very very mildly dissapointed.
keen dome
Blizzard: You'll be able to grab [on the] day of the patch Champion level gear from the sources [non-bountiful Delves and Mythic 0 dungeons]. Also, World Bosses will be available. So you'll be able to jump in and have something to do right away
đ
Pretty easy win there based on feedback, glad they took it
warm marlin
dawnbreaker/priory at least both have very nice sub rings
swift tinsel
another season of dodging signet
warm marlin
and there is less gear in their pools unlike top
keen dome
Dawnbreaker has a good passive option, at least
But we also get floodgate again so pacemaker
clever delta
rouge set not so hot
formal helm
who cares as long as tier set is good
and tuning is good
and there's decent trinkets
ticking sack of terror here we come again?
swift tinsel
I care, looking cool is cool
lilac stag
At this point it is
merry agate
heres your 1:30 bud
TRUST in raid... pray brothers đ 
swift tinsel
they don't have to be mutually exclusive
swift tinsel
that way I can look at visuals instead of details/logs
chrome palm
leaked sub bis
lilac stag
if they gave us ANY visuals more people would at least try it
swift tinsel
agreed
warm marlin
since kyveza is back as the underpin equivalent she'll just drop transmitter on hero track from delves
spice matrix
chrome palm
post nerf heroic transmitter would still be crazy
warm marlin
jump 3 times!
keen dome
https://www.wowhead.com/news/could-void-themed-demon-hunters-be-the-newest-wow-specialization-377329?utm_source=discord-webhook no, give us the VOID THINGS.
Also no this is absolutely just a cool visual decision 'cos the NPC is wearing the rogue tier hood.
Unless blizz are giving us glavies
keen dome
With Ky'veza's animations?
swift tinsel
With Ky'veza's animations?
i will roadtrip to Irvine if that happens
in very angry fashion
keen dome
Same, but to just stand there and look very disapointed.
fallow nimbus
They get the kyveza animation everytime they blade dance
swift tinsel
Oh yeah, I'd just hang out by the doors and whenever anyone walks in or out hit them with a "really dude..."
keen dome
Well we've thought of it so now it will become reality
thin sinew
https://www.wowhead.com/news/could-void-themed-demon-hunters-be-the-newest-wow-s...
I am actually in disbelief this is even being considered in a wowhead article
fallow nimbus
And our akaari gets another -20% visibility
swift tinsel
they gotta clickbait something
keen dome
I am actually in disbelief this is even being considered in a wowhead article
it's funny, but ye. As haptic says. Clickbait speculation
swift tinsel
grasp at any kind of straws for traffic
which is weird bc they already have new info
thin sinew
honestly with what they gave DH over combat rogue it wouldn't even surprise me
keen dome
It's the Nerubar rogue head, Legion armourf or the rest and a new asset for their glavies
swift tinsel
idk
formal helm
just still praying we get a decent 1.5 min cd trinket 
formal helm
and hopefully let it be in m+ rotation or early bosses bc my guild is not progging a lot of mythic raid 
formal helm
we were some % off of killing rik but since then haven't had 20 man again
but this guild reformed this tier so it took people some time to go back
mby next tier's better
since we have okay core players, could be fun
swift tinsel
I quit a few days before they downed Rik then they got hard walled on Sprocket
formal helm
just that our raid days are not static
our RL is a nurse and he posts raid days a month in advance when he gets his schedule
which is also fine in a way ig
formal helm
ye our RL said to us that "sure we can try going after rik, but you muppets aren't able to do it"
swift tinsel
I think we lost/added like six new people to the roster so it's been a bit of a shuffle getting people on the same page
and with a weekly subbing of three or four of those spots it makes consistency a bit difficult
formal helm
yep.
we had like 15-ish people at start of the tier
people came as the tier progressed
so we ended up with like 20-21 man raids
but then also some people left bc end of the season by then
so now we're always lacking a few and raid lead just said to not force it and chill till next tier
swift tinsel
we usually have 25ish during heroic prog/aotc stuff then a few fall away once mythic starts but this season we had I think me and one other guy basically call it after a week or two of myth prog
and because of the guild dynamic they won't force underperformers to sit in favor of letting everyone get a shot
which I get bc we're quite casual
formal helm
yeh
neon frigate
What is better for belt storm aura or titanium pyroblast
dry plank
What is better for belt storm aura or titanium pyroblast
Check pins
formal helm
this guild got CE in bfa, 9/10 CN
adn then we were 3 bosses down in sanctum
and guild fell apart bc our RL couldn't make it
was during covid and he had constant insane shifts
swift tinsel
I think the highest ours got is maybe 4/8 in Nerubar
formal helm
he even fell unconscious during some raids bc he forced himself to stay awake
so we just called it
keen dome
Deserter system seems interesting. Adding a vote abandon is good.
formal helm
What is better for belt storm aura or titanium pyroblast
huh?
also dps bolts is the best for us
both aoe and st iirc
formal helm
Deserter system seems interesting. Adding a vote abandon is good.
yeh, could be good
vale pine
sims are in the pins
formal helm
but I don't really pug
vale pine
so you can just take a look
vale pine
it should cover the most common sim scenarios
swift tinsel
Abandon feature def a nice touch
keen dome
Very curious how it'll shake out but being able to see if people are likely to ragequit is useful.
hazy breach
The waystone is waaaay overdue, but better late than never
keen dome
Yeah
vestal escarp
Both dk dps spec are getting more changes
After getting substantial ones at start of expac
Im so so SO ready for rog to be
....
keen dome
purple
swift tinsel
fdk needs some of its rng toned down and uhdk needs to lose wounds because they suck and playing around them isn't fun
vestal escarp
Just purple
vale pine
i like the visuals on waystones
keen dome
Same, it looks good
vale pine
hmm did anyone identify which one is rogue?
swift tinsel
my guess is third from left
vale pine
the very left one is paladin for sure
swift tinsel
I think the second left is hunter imo
vestal escarp
My guess is rightmost
vestal escarp
keen dome
My guess is, from left-to-right: Paladin, Shaman, Rogue / Hunter, Demon Hunter / Druid, Warrior, also Shaman, Warlock, Monk.
swift tinsel
paladin, priest, rogue, mage, dh, warrior, druid, lock, monk
vale pine
we know this one is warrior
swift tinsel
looks like purple antorus set
keen dome
They blew their Ethereal rogue set on the first tier
swift tinsel
if it was similar visuals but more leathery than plate I could def see it being a rogue set
keen dome
Same
swift tinsel
we get the lil eye slit things often enough
vocal wolf
hmm did anyone identify which one is rogue?
3nd from the right I think
lilac stag
hmm did anyone identify which one is rogue?
Third from left has leather boots and very leatherish belt.
vale pine
ye think the 3rd from the left is the most likely
swift tinsel
the head looks kinda smokey
a bit hard to tell because of the quality of the picture on wowhead
keen dome
They give me Legion vibes, so.
swift tinsel
yeah, was thinking the EN set
swift tinsel
one of the cooler rogue sets imo
keen dome
I disliked it's spikeyness
lilac stag
Looks way better on b/velf
clever delta
it should cover the most common sim scenarios
where is 3 boss target 8min
swift tinsel
vestal escarp
Aaaaah ptr notes whereeereee 
keen dome
Gonna bet next week? Who knows, gimme though
keen dome
hell yeah
vale pine
Aaaaah ptr notes whereeereee <a:rotating_skull:1105379925034274826> <a:rotating_...
not sure if we see it this week even
swift tinsel
I'm expecting stuff to start filtering in early next week personally
since we're just getting first looks now
vestal escarp
not sure if we see it this week even
Not sure if we see rogue on them
swift tinsel
that would be on-brand lol
fallow nimbus
what if rogue was so neglected that they mixed up the tier sets for nerubar and new one
the set in the screen has a ninja star belt, it's 100% rogue but kinda fits a nerubar vibe
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen dome
That would be funny
fallow nimbus
i mean we technically never killed kyveza, but why did our set look like that? did we kill any minions of her?
swift tinsel
Idk I think it was a miss to send that appearance with s1 instead of s3
keen dome
Ye
chrome palm
It looked like that because sheâs cool
keen dome
They probably just wanted to do a cool set
fallow nimbus
if they wanted to do cool then we would have cool animations
single button is wild. backstab into dance into flag and dance has a gcd
going stealth doesn't even change it to strike
shrewd lantern
i mean we technically never killed kyveza, but why did our set look like that? d...
I think in the questline to to get the free enchanted runed crest
shrewd lantern
what if rogue was so neglected that they mixed up the tier sets for nerubar and ...
Wouldnt be the first time
The elite pvp set for dh in antorus was the original datamined mythic NH set
swift garnet
!wa
wicked joltBOT
swift tinsel
was caught and not implemented with the patch
vestal escarp
goodge
dry plank
i was benched for entire prog on gally, and today they bring me in, i kinda get how to use cds on p1 coz we wipe like 10 times on it but i fuk up all cds during p2 and we kill it, like after p1 there is nothing happening
its just run in out in out omfg
and i waste all cds in p2 ahahahha
the good thing is i got mount MUAHAHHAHA
cursive vapor
the good thing is i got mount MUAHAHHAHA
Gz man
idle aurora
Man I love sub. But god I canât figure out why my dps is like half of assassination :/
It feels like the roll the dice also plays too big of a factor to my damage windows by random luck. Like no dice do 130m dmg 6+ dice do 240m dmg
keen dome
Dice?
swift tinsel
winning streak I assume
vale pine
the good thing is i got mount MUAHAHHAHA
nicu gz
idle aurora
Yeah winning streak sorry
My brain is bad often
Like do people delay cooldowns around winning streak?
vale pine
only thing you can do is not using evis shortly before your 90 sec cooldowns come up to stack up streak a bit
idle aurora
So just hammer ruptures out?
idle aurora
Gotcha
swift tinsel
even when the thought was early on that we'd be holding at ~20-25sec left on flag it was only like...max 5 casts of rupture in that timeline
wild hornet
feels like sending flag on pull on gally is better 
warm marlin
If you already have your necessary cdr stacking sht and skipping rupture altogether seems better
dawn vector
whats the pvp build for sub?
keen dome
Could some more Sub rogues go kill Heroic Gallywix please
I need my numbers to look better
dawn vector
isnt logs still bugged/>
wild hornet
Could some more Sub rogues go kill Heroic Gallywix please
yeah i was wondering how theres only 24 mythic logs when theres at least 50 on lorrgs
might be bugged
keen dome
damn, big rip
swift tinsel
yeah i was wondering how theres only 24 mythic logs when theres at least 50 on l...
is it only 24 from the last week/two weeks
bc iirc lorgs just has the top 50 logs regardless of timeframe
warm marlin
rip parses forever for gally
Have you tried having 2 buyers
vale pine
Season 3 Tier set Preview
Deathstalker:
[2;36m[2;37m[2;45m[0m[2;37m[0m[2;36m[2;45m[2;37m2p:[0m[2;36m[2;45m[0m[2;36m Symbols of Death increases the effectiveness of all Deathstalker damage effects and damage bonuses by 30% while active.
[2;37m[2;36m[2;45m[2;37m4p:[0m[2;36m[2;45m[0m[2;36m[0m[2;37m[0m[2;36m Symbols of Death has 2 seconds increased duration and consumes an application of your active Deathstalker's Mark when activated.[0m
Trickster:
[2;45m[2;37m2p:[0m[2;45m[0m[2;36m Unseen Blade deals 30% increased damage and has a 30% chance to stike twice.[0m
[2;37m[2;45m4p:[0m[2;37m[0m[2;36m Coup de Grace may now be activated a second time within 5 seconds, dealing 100% of normal damage.[0m
Season 3 __Class changes / Dev Notes __
No changes for Subtlety.
Noteworthy things:
House of Cards like trinket: Lily of the eternal weave
Season 3 Tier set Models - Image
wild hornet
rip parses forever for gally
im not seeing parses on gally either
wild hornet
# `Season 3` __[Tier set Preview](<https://www.wowhead.com/news/all-season-3-tie...
nseen Blade
vale pine
give me a sec ill give it nice colors
formal helm
trickster one seems nice
vestal escarp
lmao the DS set bonus is so ass
formal helm
yes.
warm depot
yeah lmfao
vestal escarp
trickster until end of triology
formal helm
DS is ass as is the fucking set.
open vortex
trickster set pretty boring
formal helm
that is true
vale pine
trickster sounds nice, deathstalker fairly meh
hazy breach
Idk the trickster one is good
I dont understand the deathstalker one
Like whats the idea behind it
open vortex
will be more interesting once they release all the class change
formal helm
Like whats the idea behind it
no idea
fleet hearth
!fuu
alpine wraith
oh no singular focus
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
formal helm
same as hero talent tree
alpine wraith
actually OH NO
alpine wraith
I dont understand the deathstalker one
we might bp on st
formal helm
yep.
alpine wraith
cant escape the dev that wants it
formal helm
lmao
alpine wraith
and trickster one is cracked
and marks the end of rotten
might still be good for m+ tho
deathstalker one is kinda weird yea we will do so much mark damage
it already almost does 2m
on crits
warm marlin
yo
hollow cobalt
Trickster set bonus is hype
vestal escarp
Like whats the idea behind it
||â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ||
alpine wraith
it does seem like the last tier of shadowlands
warm marlin
predisorienting strikes
alpine wraith
we will have shit variance
warm marlin
is going to be an absolutely insane increase
sour forum
mooom can i play sub for a whole season w/o blizz randomly buffing assa 1 month in?
again
void hound
4 coup burst with new tier set 
swift tinsel
dang that trickster set looks quite nice
warm marlin
i wonder if there's a world we bring back the vanish opener to proc coup before flag
with 3 unseen blade opener and 30% chance to reset you can reasonably guarantee proccing it
dry plank
i just looked at shaman and hunter dark ranger one (class-specs i understand) and our looks like spit into face, but nothing unexpected, everything as usual
hollow cobalt
Honestly cznât wait to test and feel it
warm marlin
i just looked at shaman and hunter dark ranger one (class-specs i understand) an...
wdm trickster is a stick bonus
dry plank
assa cant play next season
dont worry they will get 2 flat % buffs in a row xD
solemn lance
Don't get excited if it's even average it'll get nerfed just before release
swift tinsel
the 2nd coup will be 60% by the time its live
vestal escarp
unless 4p DS affects stuff like follow the blood
solemn lance
Sub is right where they want it
swift tinsel
mark my words
void hound
Sub is right where they want it
yeah not a pain in the ass for them
swift tinsel
wait why would symbols consume mark
oh I guess faster mark cycling but w/e
set sucks
sour forum
guess u get to dankest night sooner
swift tinsel
all hail trickster
sour forum
at least thats the idea
hollow cobalt
the 2nd coup will be 60% by the time its live
I can see this
swift tinsel
it'll be like Crackshot Dispatch
drifting fable
Hey man PTR is up where are the sims
real panther
# `Season 3` __[Tier set Preview](<https://www.wowhead.com/news/all-season-3-tie...
th return of ds?
warm marlin
did sub get to abuse the coup bug earlier this tier
formal helm
wth is that tier appearance tho
warm marlin
i know outlaw was absolutely using it a ton
drifting fable
wth is that tier appearance tho
post?
solemn lance
It'll definitely make cou optimization prio
vestal escarp
2p might solve the coup in opener issue
swift tinsel
yeah that's gonna be a lotta Flawless Form incoming
I like it
blizz won't and will nerf
hollow spear
with the extra cdr we get from the 2nd coup
swift tinsel
oh shit really
formal helm
finally!
hollow spear
we might be able to reliably get our 2nd sectec into the first dance
swift tinsel
dang that sounds cool
barrage of gunfire vs likely killing yourself
and the combo point restore is a nice touch
vestal escarp
Nooooo i liked KS
warm marlin
dang that sounds cool
ya tfd eating good (wrong reply)
swift tinsel
tier set has some fun implications, I'm excited to play around on ptr
hollow spear
@alpine wraith
swift tinsel
do they have trinkets up?
hollow spear
no idea, just saw this one in the outlul channel
alpine wraith
big
hollow spear
crazy
swift tinsel
no 1.5min on-use from raid
formal helm
ff.
swift tinsel
GUYYS
formal helm
ye?
swift tinsel
new dungeons
vale pine
KS will get a review, looks interessting
vale pine
nice
swift tinsel
Al'dani
formal helm
so we get this and ticking sack of terror probably
swift tinsel
pliant topaz
# `Season 3` __[Tier set Preview](<https://www.wowhead.com/news/all-season-3-tie...
what the actual fuck did i just read for trickster
alpine wraith
you read shadowlands remix
swift tinsel
alpine wraith
fuck this game aaaaaaaaaaaaa
swift tinsel
other raid trinkets
pliant topaz
you read shadowlands remix
bro these sound like theyre gonna give me stage 4 space aids
and i dont even play the game anymore
swift tinsel
Heavy mastery/vers dagger
indigo steppe
Are we so back or trash again
swift tinsel
from 2nd boss
alpine wraith
it was already a bit close now the set increases the crit dmg talent for it
swift tinsel
so we get early power spike again
okay I leave for work again will check stuff later
vestal escarp
it was already a bit close now the set increases the crit dmg talent for it
We 100% sure it works on Everything including momentum?
swift tinsel
ping me if yall find testable stuff and want extra eyes on it plz
hollow spear
The value seems a lttle low?
swift tinsel
Thatâs the champ track that I linked
alpine wraith
We 100% sure it works on Everything including momentum?
no idea
swift tinsel
Which iirc was 681
leaden plover
Killing spree reworked, and sub got nothing! thats how we like it đ
alpine wraith
but if it works pog singular focus(not)
vestal escarp
Dont think so
pliant topaz
dont worry DS will use bp on st
new ds tech, use symbols to force darkest night always be consumed with finality
swift tinsel
Iâll do a trinket deep dive in a couple hours when I get back home
pliant topaz
Are we so back or trash again
what do you think?
swift tinsel
Weâre so
hollow spear
Which iirc was 681
yeah, but the one I posted is 684, so not much different
pliant topaz
actual meme at this point xd
vestal escarp
Dh bonuses look very good
alpine wraith
look at hunter
hollow spear
The idea of 2 coups kinda exciting ngl