subtlety

[lilac stag]

all this actually proves is playing alts is dumb

[short radish]

i bound B to blind because blind starts with B

[sly shore]

was 4 for me

[median nacelle]

Q sectech, F dance, symbols E, blades alt+W, flag V

[swift tinsel]

4 is step for me

[warm marlin]

my feint is on b because b = blur and i started on DH

[short radish]

sameee

[sly shore]

feint is Alt+E

[short radish]

i see we are sharing the same half a braincell

[sly shore]

[lilac stag]

b is Velf teleport for BAMFFFP! like nightcrawler

[swift tinsel]

based af

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

the White House scene was super dope

ngl

[median nacelle]

feint on mouse side button

[swift tinsel]

same

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait to see him back in avengers

side mouse buttons are movements keys. Seeesh

[swift tinsel]

nah thats for @cursor ground effects

[sly shore]

yeah my binds are the reason for my bad parses

[lilac stag]

[graceful crown]

isnt it difficult to get TFD buff in pugs?

[remote eagle]

its difficult cuz it is bugged

[plush roost]

keys wowza

[warm marlin]

where are yall's second stealth binds

[plush roost]

Ctrl R is actually CB sec tec

[remote eagle]

blades on ctrl-q, based brother

[plush roost]

i just used a diff icon

LOL

[short radish]

R

[sly shore]

mwd is my stealth bind

[haughty mural]

Q is rupture obviously wtf guys

[remote eagle]

stealth is Q

[haughty mural]

Stealth is H

[warm marlin]

H for !stealth, shift H for leave stealth 🙄

[serene notch]

looks like were are settling in at almost exactly middle of the pack

https://mythicstats.com/dps

[haughty mural]

I wonder if it was like this without the day 1 10% parses

[plush roost]

~ is my stealth key

[serene notch]

https://mythicstats.com/spec/subtlety-rogue

[bleak night]

same

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[lilac stag]

Should be CB icon

[remote eagle]

dps numbers look accurate tbh

well not for every dungeon i guess

[serene notch]

I think we shot up to like #4 before the numbers normalized for the week

[plush roost]

yeah that would make sense, but my bars are on mouseover show anyway, so i dont really look at icons

I just use devlins weakaura pack

[haughty mural]

Cb + sectech macro is shift + Y

I swear I have the cursed binds in town

[plush roost]

fluff it UI screenshot

Clean or nah?

[hollow spear]

How are you guys using ctrl so often

I can't do it

[latent finch]

I use my hand palm to press it same with alt

[short radish]

same

[remote eagle]

i've seen a dude with shift-f7 bind

[short radish]

i dont understand control pressers

[swift tinsel]

Idk if I use it for anything besides marking

[short radish]

i can do shift

but my finger is too weak to press ctrl

[haughty mural]

I have shift ctrl and alt binded

[hollow spear]

Sounds like a nothing but 100 parses giga chad

[short radish]

my mate had alt+p bound to barkskin

[swift tinsel]

I think I only have alt+1, Q, E

[short radish]

back in wolk

players back then were a different breed

[swift tinsel]

lol I used a laptop in wotlk and bound JKL:

[remote eagle]

how in the fuck are you supposed to press that ;D

[hollow spear]

The kind of delivery in three weeks barkskin

[short radish]

i dunno if he used both hands

[swift tinsel]

Barkskin held up in customs

[plush roost]

I use ASD to strafe/forward/strafe so my hand is lower a row on the keyboard so its easy to reach ctrl

[short radish]

or used his rightt alt key

[short radish]

but then how do you reach the function keys

[hollow spear]

"my right hand couldn't make it to the keyboard fast enough, sorry for the late barkskin"

[plush roost]

Why use f keys which are usually separated and further to reach when i can use q-y and 1-6

[hollow spear]

6

I'm already struggling with 5

[short radish]

6 is my cheapshot

[hollow spear]

Fck me

[plush roost]

Admittedly 6 is my least used bind haha

[swift tinsel]

cheapshot f2 lol

[plush roost]

Shift y for me, kidney on y, focus kidney on crt y

[hollow spear]

Tell me you're not using cheapshot without telling me you're not using cheapshot

[swift tinsel]

hey its handy sometimes in awakening the machine

[remote eagle]

rate mine

[plush roost]

I just got piano hands haha

[hollow spear]

Snd bound

0/100

[plush roost]

F3 drums based

That shits never being pressed

[swift tinsel]

I have snd on ctrl mwd lol

or is it alt

[remote eagle]

oh its not a stealth panel anyway

[swift tinsel]

idk

[remote eagle]

sometimes use it to get cdr on the run

[hollow spear]

S not bound as backtracking

[swift tinsel]

f3 is shroud

[haughty mural]

Yea that’s why it’s on alt Y

[remote eagle]

on stealth it's cheapshot ;D

[short radish]

I LOVE THIS TIER SET

ITS SO GREAT

FUCKING BRILLIANT DESIGN

PRESSING BLACK POWDER TO GET 3 SECONDS CDR

[plush roost]

SnDeeznuts

Gott

[short radish]

AND LOSING ALL MY STACKS

[plush roost]

Em

[hollow spear]

Well, it's about cdr, not tierset haha

[haughty mural]

He broke

[remote eagle]

just bind snd broski

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[hollow spear]

Get the straight jackets guys

[haughty mural]

Tier set did break him

[hollow spear]

It's joever for him

[short radish]

its the fucking interaction with the tier set

i cant press black powder on nothing in between packs

[hollow spear]

The snd bind was the straw that broke the camel's back

[short radish]

because every time i do i lose my tier set stacks

yeah i had to bind snd to ctrl 3

and then i press it and it tells me "a stronger spell is already active"

https://tenor.com/view/hahahahaha-gif-23474087

[plush roost]

Macro it

[hollow spear]

So you have to cancelaura it?

Dang

[remote eagle]

cancelaura macro ig

need to do that as well

[plush roost]

/cancelaura Slice and Dice
/Cast Slice and Dice

[short radish]

yeah then i get some random 10 second snd

[remote eagle]

fr

[plush roost]

It was really good in CoT on outlaw

Cause u could hit civilians and spam rtb

[haughty mural]

[plush roost]

And go into 2nd boss with 8 stacks

Of super charger

[warm marlin]

snd bind is good to dump excess cp

[plush roost]

During rp

[hollow spear]

True actually

[warm marlin]

end a m+ pack with 4 cp -> snd -> ss to 7 on new pack

[plush roost]

Ye

[remote eagle]

i just had snd bound on 2 since wrath

cant let go

[warm marlin]

also on richard reverberation with shuriken toss -> snd

[hollow spear]

I'm still so bad with my dance economy in m+

[haughty mural]

Did you play too much assa ?

[hollow spear]

Yes

[plush roost]

Dancing in m+ is weird because i send so many non symbols dances and it hurts my soul

[hollow spear]

Bleed build lost me about 50 iq points, I'm at 30 now

[short radish]

it took me 8 years to swap my binds of Evis = f2 and Shiv = 2

[remote eagle]

yea in the raid, sub for arena ofc

[haughty mural]

It’s like riding a bike - you will get there after a few

[hollow spear]

And Richard gives me ptsd

Pop flag to burst on barrels

Rogue, go soak

[plush roost]

Thats why we wait 8 seconds to flag hehe

[graceful crown]

then should we stop using evis and other finishers because of its chance of losing set buffs? like using rupture or snd?

[short radish]

no

dont be a degenrate like us

play the game normally

[plush roost]

Ehh its kindof min-maxy, if you're not very familiar with the spec i wouldn't do it

[hollow spear]

Not on the one before he immunes tho 💀

[remote eagle]

i sometimes rupture spam if im close to getting flag and blades back

[plush roost]

But theres no overlap with circles during that

[short radish]

WHY THE FUCK DO I ALSO GET ASSIGNED THE SOAK WHEN I PRESS FLAG

[plush roost]

Wait your RL is telling you to soak on the no soak pylons????

[hollow spear]

I swear there was, the heck

I definitely remember I got pulled out of my burst a couple of times

[haughty mural]

My only duty were barrels back then - not soaks

[plush roost]

The only overlap i can think of is at 1:05 because it overlaps with KB haha

[haughty mural]

[plush roost]

But on sub there may be a dance window there?

[hollow spear]

Ranged barrels?

[haughty mural]

All of them

[limpid sage]

anyone got secret hax for not being perma airborne first pull Workshop?

all the shit on the floor makes it giga hard to see where the blades are going I feel

[short radish]

press shadow step

save vanish

open eyes

[haughty mural]

Our warlock back then
„I can only do melee barrels or my darkglare is wasted/wont do damage“

[short radish]

turn on monitor

[hollow spear]

Ranged focusing melee stack to pad - rl: melee, swap to the fckn far barrel now!

[plush roost]

Bro my favorite part of day 1 richard reverberation was when i knew to hit barrels ahead of time, saw stealthi's cd timing, and Absolutely capped the entire raid in barrel dps haha

[sly shore]

if it's one barrel just let it go off

[haughty mural]

The arcane mage:
„I can only cleave of the boss for the melee barrels“

[sly shore]

[limpid sage]

thought so, rip

[sly shore]

they nerfed the damage so much it doesn't matter

[short radish]

based stealthi cooldown timer enjoyer

[hollow spear]

Yeah, talking about early prog

[short radish]

tbh just stand in the middle of a square

and you dodge most of them

if not all

right?

[plush roost]

My barrel hitting was rewarded cause i got rik dagger week 1

Ezclap

[hidden blaze]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[limpid sage]

do you know if they have a set pattern or is it random which one they do first?

[short radish]

nah fucked if i know

im not a mini game player

[tame stone]

how much do you sim guys now? 5min patchwerk

[hollow spear]

We extended before even one of them dropped

[plush roost]

Are you talking about saws? Circle saws first, center saws after, about every 20ish seconds off the dome

[short radish]

ive killed richard 9 times and he still has yet to drop a mythic dagger

had to take it from vault

[hollow spear]

I've got a haste dagger from vault and had to take it

[plush roost]

From the vault aintnoway

[short radish]

yucky

[hollow spear]

Only dagger i saw this season

[limpid sage]

huge

[graceful crown]

i was testing at 5-ish dummies and yep, it is worth maintain the tier buff at 8 even just using rupture or backstabs till next cdpump

like a lot

[plush roost]

General rule is 25 seconds spam rupture

[graceful crown]

thanks is very good having a timing on that

[plush roost]

Or dont spam if cdr is good and use backstab as energy dump/tier stacking

And then go into burst with 7+ shadow technique stacks

But thats like very min-maxy

[graceful crown]

sub needs to be played very good and be patient

[plush roost]

Another good rule is 25ish seconds, dont use coup, use powder so coup is ready for cds

[graceful crown]

i like that

[plush roost]

Dont want to waste unseen blade stacks but also 15% finisher damage is very powerful in cds

[graceful crown]

I see, thanks for tips

[plush roost]

Just make sure you have timings and the base rotation down first, you'll lose more than you'll gain by messing up rotation than playing for tier stacks

[remote eagle]

2.624

with raid buffs

kinda low or fine?

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rzKthiacBYysxa74oTUAqf

im 2.81

do what you will with that knowledge

[graceful crown]

i still need HoC im using myth geargrinder.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eVtx4xzaZqtHR3pUbHifWV

[tame stone]

why no finality?

just trying to see how i compare to other blasters

[remote eagle]

makes sense tbh, im 680 and low on crit

so all good i guess

[tame stone]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sQirTycpNqZUXRLbhxKmPH

[tame stone]

u dont need crit

[short radish]

eh you need some crit

[remote eagle]

need that dfc neck at least

[tame stone]

depends, peacemaker solves all crit issues 😄

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1mNmUrJQuruhs4g5T8K9cQ

hmm finality is .7% dps from rotten

we dont play around finality rupture do we?

[tame stone]

yea i figured like a week ago

nono

[short radish]

just blast?

[tame stone]

you talent it in and forget it exists

[short radish]

cool

[tame stone]

btw dont be an idiot like me, i thought finality is exclusive - i.e. you need to spend one before getting another, thats not how it works, you can have multiple finialities ready

[graceful crown]

if i change race from b.elf to maghar it gives me ~1.2% dps increase -_-

[short radish]

fuck that

[plush roost]

holy your gear

versatility gamer

[short radish]

yeah lmao got the oab ring from vault

[bleak night]

Transmog is a way higher dps boost than 1.2%

Granted some people like orc model so best of both worlds for them

[tame stone]

the only bad thing about sub transmog is, 99% of daggers look bad

[remote eagle]

yea belf or undead only

[swift tinsel]

I think I use artifact mog 99% of the time

also its a crime there aren't good color matches with the mage tower armor set

[plush roost]

i like these daggers

nick of time is pretty lit

[warm marlin]

Gurubashi poker enjoyer

[plush roost]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gdyY4Z9pC9iyNNZmQWnZsP

versa gap

[short radish]

w8 leme sim 5min

[shrewd lantern]

I just use the trading post class set dagger

[tame stone]

@plush roost why crit embelishments??

[shrewd lantern]

albeit with the black/red variant

of the tos set not magetower

[short radish]

at some point we do have too much vers/mast

[tame stone]

my crit sims below versa and mastery

[remote eagle]

night fae enchantment works decent with it

[tame stone]

but elemental focusing lens is just better no?

[bleak night]

No shot that dude said daggers are ugly

[plush roost]

i main assa in m+ this season and dawnthread goes hard

[bleak night]

So many good ones

[tame stone]

ah okay then that makes sense

[short radish]

embelishments matter even less than racials

[plush roost]

also this ^

[shrewd lantern]

just use assa magetowrr

[tame stone]

welp im orc gamer

[swift tinsel]

I skipped most of legion so I didn't get any of the mage tower artifact wep appearances

[shrewd lantern]

shame to skip

peak sub

[swift tinsel]

Between finishing school and being abroad and didn't have the time to play

[tame stone]

played legion on private servers since i was a poor student, peak sub - for bugging under texture on every single fight in antorus

[warm marlin]

become crit pilled https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4DbHwcRqkvVMuvejRENiBA

[tame stone]

dfa was negative dps since it basically killed u

[shrewd lantern]

Ok i hear this alot

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7W3eFGiYu8RQCvdngo5FQz

yup actually just vers diff - even though its telling me to recraft my neck out of vers

[shrewd lantern]

and only fell under the floor once

during the entirety of antorus

[short radish]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tame stone]

also, i came to retail and thought rogue is safe, shadowstepped on vexie behind the fire wall and parsed 5%

[shrewd lantern]

idk what people to constantly get it

[tame stone]

i played it on antorus release on the first pserver that had it online so . . .

[shrewd lantern]

Idk i heard it on live servers

I had one dfa fall through entire tier

[tame stone]

oh idk about retail

[shrewd lantern]

despite playing sub full time

it was on kingaroth

[chrome palm]

what is the %

[short radish]

of?

[warm marlin]

I have so much crit my maghar racial regularly decides to go crit when my chaos flask rolls it or pacemaker procs sim like crit

[chrome palm]

what is your % vers

should buy boe boots and go all the way

[short radish]

tempted to but thats also like

4 wow tokens or something

[chrome palm]

40% vers inc

[short radish]

wait how much is it now

[chrome palm]

700k~

[shrewd lantern]

set boots are heavy vers

[short radish]

3 wow tokens

[chrome palm]

last i checked

[short radish]

stuff that

i'll drop 200k on a death roll but not 700k on random boots

[chrome palm]

40% vers is a dps gain because you never have to press feint

[warm marlin]

drop 200k on becoming the right race

[short radish]

thats with chaos proccing vers

[shrewd lantern]

dont orcs just

fall behind in later tiers

they usually do

[chrome palm]

you know what to do with your neck 🫡

[short radish]

without vers proc

[warm marlin]

isnt maghar just broken

[tame stone]

also, do you guys play anything over void ritual?

[short radish]

gushing also it doesnt matter

[shrewd lantern]

idk i havent gone off dwarf

since mid df

[short radish]

voids bugged right?

[shrewd lantern]

Im still sitting on a faction change

from s1 sale

[chrome palm]

echoing void bugged not void ritual afaik

[sly shore]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jZDwD7nG1iEecvreQ8NUuV

[short radish]

too many voids

[warm marlin]

another low sim noob

[sly shore]

okay get me hoc

[warm marlin]

i bought mine to replace my 658 pvp trinket

[shrewd lantern]

maghar proccing crit

doesnt sound like a good time

[warm marlin]

crit really isn't that bad

[haughty mural]

No wonder my sims want crit vers so bad

[lilac stag]

VR is fine until it procs outside of CDs

[haughty mural]

Any pillar corruption gamer ?

[shrewd lantern]

Play td for max gamba

[chrome palm]

hold for vr

[shrewd lantern]

either 0 procs

or 5 procs from one autoattack

[sly shore]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6jDMQLN1sNTVAsL7DPH5Pm

if I get hoc

[haughty mural]

Not any worse then voidritual outside of cds

[warm marlin]

with huge value shadow focus talent u gap me

[steel zinc]

Td is fun

[graceful crown]

oh the bug with storm+vanish macro is not bad, its true that TFD runs if you are not using SD

nerf incoming?

[sly shore]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2d8uqZcgW2YAVhNZfRPvo8

what a gain!

[warm marlin]

Holy moly

Think of all the feints you can cast now

[haughty mural]

Iirc they fixed the bug

[graceful crown]

how? im doing it right now all the time

atleast at dummies

[haughty rose]

how does it even work? i set up the macro but no TFD once i vanish

[sly shore]

dummies is not instanced content

[graceful crown]

ahhh okay

i used vanish then tfd restarted and i can use skills

but if in instances it doesnt work meh haha

[sly shore]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uoSFVhcCYC7oMu66RCVZxe If I get a back I can gain 1k dps!!!

[chrome palm]

you can still proc it in dungeons outside of bosses

its just quite inconsistent

[sly shore]

[warm marlin]

I’m so gapped fr

How can compete

[sly shore]

go to sleep

u can't

[haughty rose]

better fix a beneficial bug for an undertuned spec asap but let the disadvantageous bug persist

[sly shore]

too many nightmare

[chrome palm]

90% dusk uptime is a tad hopeful

[sly shore]

no it's not

exhil execution is kinda poggers for uptime

[chrome palm]

wtf

my healers hate me

[warm marlin]

Lining uptime kinda fake anyway

Ur perma topped in cds

That’s when it matters

[sly shore]

self heal OP

leech enchants are flat out better than avoidance

[warm marlin]

True

[fallow nimbus]

Speed > rest

[warm marlin]

I got flamed for saying so early this tier

[graceful crown]

excuse me, where i can get a myth chest in another 4 months? KEKW

[fallow nimbus]

Can't get damaged if damaged can't catch you

[keen dome]

Speed -> all and if this isn'te ver true then I'm gonna make it true

watch me naruto run out of damage

[haughty mural]

Based

[hollow spear]

what about accidentally naruto running into damage because you're too fast?

[keen dome]

nah

[fallow nimbus]

We don't talk about that (sprocket beam + magnets )

[keen dome]

But I will accidently run down the gallywix hole

[sly shore]

Its more healing than avoidance mitigates

[hollow spear]

tried gally the first time on my arcane mage lfr

[sly shore]

Can easily compare ot in logs

[hollow spear]

blinked into the hole

ggs

[warm marlin]

Yes leech is goated

Imagine going avoidance as rogue

[fallow nimbus]

Just have enough speed to jump over the hole

[sly shore]

It also just gets better with more gear

[warm marlin]

Press feint

[sly shore]

Avoidance stays the same

[hollow spear]

there's an argument for it on assa

[sly shore]

Nope its better on assa too

[hollow spear]

yeah, but assa has less vers and less dr

[tepid trellis]

if we are being 100% real here it depends on the encounter

[sly shore]

Compared my leech to other rogues

[hollow spear]

have you seen our keybinds? we're max 30% real

[warm marlin]

idk u should never die to aoe dmg and leech completely gaps avoidance against rot damage

[tepid trellis]

its not about dieing

[warm marlin]

Plus being very good when healing absorbs matter

[tepid trellis]

dmg mitigated is better than dmg healed

[short radish]

Speed is the best secondary stat. Don't need to @ me

[sly shore]

More leech higher exhilarating execution cmv

[tepid trellis]

its only when the difference becomes big between the too

that you can argue for leech being better

[hollow spear]

Exhil > Ephemeral with bad healers

[warm marlin]

for sure but with current tuning avoidance might reduce 20k dps on a high damage fight while leech regularly nets me over 100k hps

[tepid trellis]

well you also have baseline leech from talents so you arent looking at it fairly

[warm marlin]

Call it 50k

[tepid trellis]

dmg mitigation in 95% of the time will always be better than healing

[sly shore]

I compared between me and the other rogue in guild

Since our tertiary were the same

And leech was always better for us

[shrewd lantern]

doesnt it just get better

for classes with more selfheal

[hazy breach]

A lot of the leech healing is fake though

[tepid trellis]

it is yes

alot of it is not "useful" healing

[sly shore]

If my healers aren't doing 60% overheal I don't want to hear it smh

I want to contribute to their downfall

Guys we could 2 heal this, promise

[hazy breach]

I respect this, steal their hps so they get worse logs

[shrewd lantern]

idk avoidance doesnt help vs rot damage

[hazy breach]

It does most of the time

[shrewd lantern]

i swear healers dont bother to top you on rogue

as much as other classes

[hazy breach]

Almost all damage in raid is reduced by avoidance

And the vast majority in keys too

[shrewd lantern]

i meant specifically targeted stuff

[hazy breach]

(ie feint baseline)

[hazy breach]

Well just because its targeted doesnt mean feint and avoidance doesnt work

[shrewd lantern]

lightspawn channels

[hollow spear]

I am a vers addict

[vale pine]

vers is great as it has defensive value too

[chrome palm]

leeching fangs for when the healer drinks :-)

[manic salmon]

vers is boring

[solar geode]

is this new belt from 11.1.7 gonna be bis for everyone like cerces circlet

[hazy breach]

Presumably ye

[hollow spear]

doesn't have to be exciting to be addictive

and 13% DR are a welcome sight

[manic salmon]

boring stat

[tepid trellis]

about as boring as all other stats

when you have 0 interactions with stats

[limpid sage]

crit proccing find weakness 😱

[haughty mural]

True, watch me go full crit now

[hollow spear]

I am getting 100% crit and you can't stop me

[vale pine]

wait your attacks don't critical strike 100% of the time?

[lilac stag]

They don’t yet. Growth mindset fuu

[hollow spear]

We're on that critma grindset

[patent lichen]

I make sure to only use abilities when cold blooded is up so my crit is 100%

Apm low but crit high

[manic salmon]

we call that triple d

dogshit design debuff

[proven plover]

Are u critting if you have 100% crit? At that point they become your normal hits

[graceful crown]

which one is the most meme talent of sub?

i would say this one

[void hound]

[void hound]

this one

cause you have to take two useless talents and its still worth it

[swift tinsel]

no energy finishers

big stonks

[tawny sky]

Hi, I'm looking at the ST Opener - wshould I send cold blood along with Secret Technique?

[alpine wraith]

second sec tech

[swift tinsel]

it's a dps gain to use it with the second Sectech during shadow blades

[alpine wraith]

on second dance

[vale pine]

you ideally dealy it to your 2nd secret cast

so the 2nd shadow dance

but if you start out, it might be easier to macro it to secret (knowing its not ideal)

[proven plover]

I cant stop playing around rotten in my opener xdd is it a loss to pop symbols before sectec rather than bs? When not taking rotten?

Or does it not rly matter

Im just losing out on the duration increase from the first bs right?

[alpine wraith]

you dont lose much using it on dance or just before sec tech

on average

[tawny sky]

yeah i'm just learning rogue, so i might as well go for the right way to play from the start

[vale pine]

👍 great attitude

[wild hornet]

now im wondering if i should make a bs sstrike modifier

[hazy breach]

Thats significantly better than perforated veins of shadow focus btw

[wild hornet]

shadow focus my goat

[summer lynx]

Do we have any info on this new belt coming out?

[kind bluff]

So on stix, is it worth holding cds or just send them? Cause adds are just super inconsistent.

[alpine wraith]

just hit the boss

[bleak night]

real

[spare garnet]

whats that for answer..

[lilac stag]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[naive zodiac]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[worn ivy]

there is a random update right now

maybe they fixed echoing void ?

[stoic sphinx]

there was one a few hours ago but i didnt see anything for echoing void

[lilac stag]

They’re removing the other 5% buff

[alpine wraith]

they are buffing goremaw

dont tell anyone

[timid rivet]

do we've a minimum crit % needed ?

[tepid trellis]

no

[alpine wraith]

cant go below 5%

so yea as long as it sims well 5 is the least you can have

or maybe as rogue it is 10

[tepid trellis]

it is 10 yes

[alpine wraith]

we also have some talents that give crit

[timid rivet]

Ok thanks, just goin for poly mastery but was like maybe sometime i need to go crit, but poly mast sim always better so

[alpine wraith]

ye big mastery enjoyers

[dusk stone]

the greater enchants are out yes?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[serene notch]

Anyone understand how WCL calculates damage all star points? I’ve read a few things and honestly I’m still confused about how it determines the final score.

[alpine wraith]

they ask me and i give them a number

depending on how i feel

[graceful crown]

oh you specified sub, mb mb

[graceful osprey]

I think goremaw’s bite should be baseline

[hazy breach]

Nah goremaw is like 2-3%

Perforated veins and shadow focus are 0.1-0.2%

[ivory laurel]

Anyone explain the 'gameplay loop' in simple terms of Sub?

For example I've been playing Outlaw which I like a lot (tho im rlly bad)

I'm just wondering what it plays like compared to outlaw

[lilac stag]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

press buttons in short 7 or 15 second burst windows

do giga damage

afk and stretch your hands/wrists inbetween burst windows

[worn cliff]

@vale pine
It looks like Junk Maestro's Megamagnet/Zee's THug Hotline are listed twice in the Bis Trink List in different spots - sorta

• Junk is listed as both A and B tier but has the Zee's icon in B tier.
• Zee's is listed as A tier but has a second icon in B tier which has a hover of Junk's tooltip.
  Do we have a difinitive answer of which one is better?
  I was thinking of swapping my Mythic Whistle for a Mythic Junk Maestro's with my 2nd trink being House of Cards and was looking at the tier list for ideas.

[ivory laurel]

Do u think its fun? :3

Alsoo can i switch between the 2 specs (outlaw & sub) with the same gear kinda?

I'm pretty new to wow trying to get geared atm (640ilvl).

[worn cliff]

sorta? you need a much larger amount of haste for outlaw than sub

as long as you can swap out stuff to get enough haste, you should be fine

though outlaw hates mastery

[ivory laurel]

Oh damn, I've been playing with 10% haste and massive amounts of mastery x_x

But like

I can't choose

the gear I get dropped from M+

[worn cliff]

find the slots where you have more haste and pick up a separate piece for sub (necks and rings give lots of stats per slot)

[short radish]

yes

but i dont like playing outlaw

[worn cliff]

then you can use crit/vers in other slots

[short radish]

and i dont like playing assi

fun is subjective

[ivory laurel]

Okayy thats fair. thanks :3

usually in MMO's i don't like stuff that's boring/click the same 3 buttons over & over. Is there some complexity in Sub to get good and perform better if u play good? ;D

I heard one of the three specs was rlly boring/easy but don'nt rememmber which

[worn cliff]

sub is all about doing your cd windows correctly

in the right order

and maximizing dam in them

[ivory laurel]

kay ill watch some vids on it thx

[worn cliff]

check out the sim code on raidbots for st and fuu has a great guide on wowhead with explanations

[lilac stag]

Gooner's is A and F tier. when lust gets sent before you're in combat the trinket goes to shiet.

[lilac stag]

don't look at simc sample sequence as a guide. it's one instance of many and it will change.

[worn cliff]

the rules not the sampel

[lilac stag]

that’s about the most difficult way to learn a spec possible.

[worn cliff]

you start iwth wowhead

and use pins and stuff

and if it still don't make sense then you go to the details

XD

[lilac stag]

or ask in here what you don’t understand instead of trying to decipher if then statements in a block of text

[worn cliff]

everyone learns differently 🙂

[worn cliff]

don't know what you're refering to when you say gooners

[tepid trellis]

zee's

you summon the "goon" squad

[worn cliff]

ah

I only mentioned zee's cause it had the weird positioning in the list. i'll probably just run cart. double on use sounds not fun

[tepid trellis]

zee is not an on-use

its passive

[worn cliff]

Maestro's is on use

compared to Whistle which is passive

just mentioned zee's cause it was listed twice in different areas with different tool tips in the wowhead list

[tepid trellis]

ic

[hazy breach]

Zee's is strong, but unfortunately theres an issue where you do not get the "bloodlust proc" if you have not hit anything when bloodlust is being cast

[vital sage]

quick question for subrogue enjoyers. How do you go about big momma boss encounter in floodgate

do ya'll send on adds... save for the burn... a little bit a both

[hazy breach]

And on a lot of bosses where you lust on pull your range is likely to press BL before you have started to hit the boss

[lilac stag]

Play assa

[vital sage]

Lol

[hazy breach]

Generally the adds are kindof a dps check as well so you typically just send on cooldown

Even though it feels bad

[lilac stag]

the story of sub in keys

[vital sage]

[lilac stag]

the truth hurts

It’s ok. We talk assa keys in here a lot.

big key pushers

[hazy breach]

Its the same for every spec though really

That boss is just designed in a way that makes you feel kinda bad

[remote eagle]

i had to send cds on adds at +15s, everything before was fine

[lilac stag]

Just be outlaw and have no CDs, or Assa and use DM twice on momma

[remote eagle]

then there would be nothing to doom about

[lilac stag]

Doom about 5%

[remote eagle]

rate my +16 top

anyone pulls 4.5 after the nerf?

[lilac stag]

Find a better ret and warrior

oh I mean NICE!

[remote eagle]

those are pugs

they did fine for 16 ig

[empty cargo]

Nice job

[eager idol]

how far over the timer were you?

[remote eagle]

we had 5 min left to spare

[warm marlin]

11 cinder 30M first pull holy moly

[serene notch]

I think my absolute best was 3.2 mill or something on a 14 so like 2.x mil in WCL. I have no clue how you guys blast so hard.

its crazy to me how much better the best players are, in absolute terms i can parse a 97-98 but for key level its a green parse for relative levels. I just feel like im playing a different game.

[plush roost]

It really is just use CDs on cd and dont miss globals

Maintain uptime, dont lose white swings since they provide energy and resources

[warm marlin]

i might be cooked but i feel like sht stacking is very very big in keys

[plush roost]

Biggest mistake people make is to "hold their cd" and make a pull last 30 seconds longer

[warm marlin]

auto attacking for the last 15s of a pull when youre going into next with flag is a big big gain imo

as long as you have your dances ready

[plush roost]

Last 10 seconds of gorechop and go into portal guardian with 7+ stacks

Brrrrrr

[warm marlin]

I auto attack the souls as im walking along

you have tricks anyway

[plush roost]

I auto souls and press storm/rupture since it fills the bar anyway

I've hit 25m on that pull

[whole forum]

Hi guys, any advise to improve dps on M+?

[remote eagle]

i disagree, i started to be more mindful about cds and sometimes delay them even by 2 dances, maybe not the most optimal thing for dps, but surely helps to smoothen the run, esp if you have another bursty spec in the team

[plush roost]

You will lose casts doing this its very dependent on the pulls

[warm marlin]

I have a feeling a lot of subs get caught up in trying to do damage on every pack or oversending trying to not be super far behind on details on some packs

sometimes u just look like an inta

it is what it is

[plush roost]

I mean obviously dont send flag blades on a pack at 40% hp when a big pull is coming up but holding too long is going to lose time over a key so idk

[warm marlin]

mostly referring to lower keys here

when u get to high stuff u can safely send on cd

[plush roost]

Almost every time I've wanted to hold for something I've ended up regretting it

[warm marlin]

even in 12s packs almost die before my flag window ends if i dont send it immediately on pull

gotta hold a bit to get proper value

[plush roost]

Yeah makes sense lowest key I've done this week was a 17 friend key xd

I can imagine you lose CDs in 12s

[warm marlin]

me and the ele popped on a pack in the floodgate I just did and it full died before my 2nd dance

funny stuff

[plush roost]

Haha rip

[remote eagle]

how do you manage cds on last boss of the rookery

[plush roost]

Sandbag until shield break

One dance between on higher keys

Make your group not break till flag is up

Stack sht to 14 and have coup ready on break

[remote eagle]

yea makes sense calling that

[short radish]

it's definitely not optimal for overall dps

because the entire dungeon is one boss fight

so delaying 2 dances here

and then 2 dances there

and another 2 dances

eveything gets set back

so you just lose a lot of casts overall

[lilac stag]

Be aggressive unless pack dead

[short radish]

yeah

if pack will live your cd

then just send

[lilac stag]

Everything has to die

Holding for a bigger window just wastes cds

[warm marlin]

yea delaying flag by 2 dances is sussy

[remote eagle]

yea maybe packs still die too fast in my keys

[lilac stag]

Nah

You’re too passive

[remote eagle]

bc it feels wrong when 1 pack dies in 20s and 2nd is 2 minute mud punching

[plush roost]

My rule of thumb really is just, if the mobs have 200m+ left i will press flag

[lilac stag]

how are you punching mudd for 2 minutes?

20 sec is 2 dances

Math not mathing

[remote eagle]

it was a metaphor

[lilac stag]

it’s piss poor

[plush roost]

Even if I only get 13/16 globals in cds on a pack, I still send because otherwise I'm holding for 30-40 seconds

Do that 3 times and you've lost a cast

[short radish]

^

[lilac stag]

That math is mathing

[short radish]

remember. teh entire dungeon is one big boss fight

if you hold 30 seconds every 5 minutes and its a 25 min dungeon

thats 2.5 mins of holding

[lilac stag]

Not being aggressive is legit subs biggest downfall

Trying to get perfect ST opener every pack

[warm marlin]

floodgate 12

[plush roost]

Pewpew

No battleshout smhmyhead

[remote eagle]

yea but like if tank pulls some dogshit 4 mob pull with an architect in fg just before that big pack with shredders

i aint sendin shit

[plush roost]

You actually shoukd

[warm marlin]

that's soo much cd holding

[plush roost]

Because then you'll have cds for boss anyway

[short radish]

by holding on that pack if you have cds

youve turned a 20 second pull

into a 40 second pull

[plush roost]

Sub prio damage is actually really really good for the scaffolding mob that takes forever

[short radish]

i get your thought process

and i used to do that as well

[plush roost]

So sending there is bad overall but good for the key

[short radish]

but the math doesnt math overall

if you hold

[warm marlin]

i suspect people also don't black powder enough

that button is strong

[plush roost]

Yeah it is

[warm marlin]

pretty much every dungeon pack you should be black powdering during dance due to the 5target FW rule

unless you're prioing

[remote eagle]

was nice to see another perspective, ty guys

maybe i am wrong

[short radish]

np

its not so much that youre wrong

its just that you gotta be aggressive with cds

and also have a gauge of whether a pack will survive it or not

like if the pack is only going to last half way through a flag/blades

then thats probably not as worth sending

but holding cds on a small pack to then send on a big pack is never really worth

[lilac stag]

aggressive feels wrong until you actually commit to it

then you hate yourself for inting by holding

[plush roost]

Understanding how much damage you will actually do to a pack during cds is also helpful

[remote eagle]

what if like
you get cds back, pack is dying but the fat rookery mob will survive flag

u send?

[warm marlin]

omnicd/voice also good for this

[plush roost]

Like you do 100m to every mob in the pack with cds, then you send cds with 150m+

[warm marlin]

knowing your team is good as well

if flag is up in 15s but I see my other 2 dps both have cds im probably planning to hold so ill dance insta on pack pull

[plush roost]

Yeah that does matter as well

[remote eagle]

yea, with a team its much more easier than pugging

[warm marlin]

omnicd goated addon

[plush roost]

Ye and soon

It will be gone

😦

[lilac stag]

my general pug rule, whatever you expect the dps to do, drop that by 25%

[warm marlin]

blizzard

[remote eagle]

or 75% for udks from kazzak

for some reason there is a pattern

[lilac stag]

just like me

[lilac stag]

fotm gonna fuck up fotm

i generally avoid fotm if I can for dps in pugs

the regular good specs tend to be better overall performers

but I also stopped running shit awhile back

life is good

[remote eagle]

monk players are goated 90% of the time

luv monks

[lilac stag]

FDK are generally good. BM tend to be safer picks over MM

mages are all sussy

same with boomies

enhance usually safe

[paper iron]

scath

you re really good

[lilac stag]

Washed up

[paper iron]

blizzard is washed up

and doesnt let you perform at maximum potential

it s in this order

you re really good

[lilac stag]

Blizzard is filthy they way they treat class development.

wish they washed once in awhile.

Are you still pushing keys @paper iron ?

or are we down to just prophet in here

[paper iron]

i quitted

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/huzzah-frazzled-gif-5544331

[paper iron]

havent uninstalled yet but i havent done a key in a full month maybe more

and i m just doing some raid reclear if guild is needing

[lilac stag]

I think we get mugs down this reset

[paper iron]

aka i ve done 4 bosses in 2 months

[lilac stag]

Then almost free

[paper iron]

but as i said, the game management from blizzard, the way they erase your progress mid patch to give u random borrowed power and ilvl increase, no tuning on rogue, random buffs on mage and devoker, disgusting m+ community / balance team, list can goes on

i had enough

also

aug arround the corner again

yea best time to leave

[lilac stag]

Ye

I’m just tired of sub ignored.

[paper iron]

rogue in general is a bit ignored

but this patch

wtf was that

[lilac stag]

spec tree still in shambles from 10.2

trickster bandaid CDR issues barely

[paper iron]

i dont even like sub usually, this patch it was fun, i liked the no dust and blablabla. But i m not a sub fan usually

but outlaw have u seen

[lilac stag]

KS can suck a dick

[paper iron]

assa is the trashiest it ever been gameplay wise in raid

all 3 hero talents sucks ass since prepatch

[lilac stag]

assa is a dredge

[paper iron]

they could ve let the press feint on cd thing

[lilac stag]

keys is fine

[warm marlin]

me press mutiliate envenom

[paper iron]

i wouldnt have been surprised

[warm marlin]

zug zug

[paper iron]

which is so weird cuz assa in aoe / m+

is actually so cool

[lilac stag]

Me for procs

[paper iron]

i ve had as much fun as assa m+ this tier than as outlaw in s3 DF

[warm marlin]

i really dislike assa m+ for some reason idk

[paper iron]

but that s 1 good point for 1000 bad points

[warm marlin]

i dont like mouseover dot applying

its so ick

[paper iron]

it s fine u can dislike

you know i alt mage right

[lilac stag]

just be lazy and never target swap

[paper iron]

all 3 mages specs, all 3 hero trees, so good to play

and you now, on all 3 specs, have infinite ressources

[warm marlin]

ye cuz they get 7 reworks a season

[paper iron]

mage is genuinly one of the easiest class in the game currently

imo

even arcane is 2 buttons

imagine

[lilac stag]

I think almost everything is ez compare to rogue

[paper iron]

i legit will say it

mage is easier than ret

cuz ret has to press externals

and think a bit

[lilac stag]

it’s not like assa is brain surgery, but melee dot tracking fucks with people’s heads

[paper iron]

melee dot spreading is just bad imo

even if i like assa m+ currently

i hate the way you spread bleeds

that s why i dont play bleed build

i tried but fuck that

[warm marlin]

am i crazy or does garrote have a smaller range than normal

I swear when i was playing assa on mugzee

[lilac stag]

Trying to mouse over a specific mob in melee with a pull of 12 and dodging frontals and shit on the ground can be tiresome

[paper iron]

dont forget

we lost acro

but anyway acro should never been on sub and assa if u ask me

[lilac stag]

I think sub and outlaw should have kept it. Nimble rogue specs

assa a slog

[paper iron]

i disagree for sub

it s a burst spec

weave in and out

it s fine to lose uptime

[lilac stag]

I want a bigger nuke area

Nothing to do with dodging

[paper iron]

also they cant figure out of to make sectech works with acro

[lilac stag]

they can’t figure out how to make Sectech work with anything

delete the fucking pets

[paper iron]

@tepid trellis have you join another guild or you re leaving?

i needed to cehck on you

[lilac stag]

Stealthi in myst

[paper iron]

oooh

myst

i see i see

big boi

[lilac stag]

Private 🪵

[paper iron]

he s always been private logging anyway

this racoon

[lilac stag]

LA Raccoon

[paper iron]

Le

in french

[lilac stag]

Lost Ark

Idk what that is in French

[paper iron]

i think if i continued to play i would ve just OTP outlaw

even in progress

oh

[lilac stag]

you likely would be fine doing that.

[paper iron]

yea just lost ark then

yea i sure would be

but

cba m+ farming

cba blizzard

cba cba

[lilac stag]

Not like their dps cratered like Tesla stock

[paper iron]

also one of the reason is that the guild i was in kinda lost its essence to me, we re not really perfomming as we were and some people stopped the game last couple tiers so

i would need to find a new guild to keep playing

and i dont want to bother with that

told u, perfect timing to leave

happiquitter

[lilac stag]

I’m the oppo. Really like the improvements we made, but idk the grind is wearing me down

[paper iron]

and oh boy

the ilvl upgrade mid season

??????????????????????????????

WHY

just erasing all the progress and perf you done the first half of the season

make me mad

i m 675 ilvl

[lucid jackal]

I like the turbo boost, gives u a reason to log back in and play the video game

[warm marlin]

but ilvl make brain juice

upgrade item happi happi

[lucid jackal]

Facts

[warm marlin]

big damage

[paper iron]

yea i can see that Guy, it s just another mid season random upgrade like circet and i personnally dont like that

[warm marlin]

number go up 📈

[paper iron]

but it s fine to like it

just if they also uncapped valorstone as they did with crest while increasing ilvl

i would have spit less on the move

[warm marlin]

idk i havent had a valorstone issue this entire season

[random hare]

belt im 2 resets

[paper iron]

belt????

what????

a new borrowed power thing?

On a belt?

[random hare]

Ya

[paper iron]

[random hare]

[paper iron]

Ok good i quitted

gg

[warm marlin]

isnt it like turbo bad rn on ptr still

im sure they will buff it 1 day before launch

[random hare]

Idk wasnt it turbo op?

[lucid jackal]

So was ring last szn

If its shit itll be good

Its w.e, more reason to login and get some shit done

I'm all for it

[random hare]

In all fairness i only saw it when it was bugged op

100k stats

[lucid jackal]

I mean the a lternative is they dont do shit like this and then I literally just raidlog perma '

Even if its whatever concent, I prefer some sort of something to get me to login past "GRINDING IO"

that duo shit looks tight too hope its fun

[lilac stag]

at this point I’m content messing with visions and finishing up raid. Ran a 10 this week and I have no idea why.

I haven’t looked at the duos yet. Belt is whatever.

hopefully delves are good (and not bugged to shit)

[tepid trellis]

same WR as before but now with 1 split and perm private logs

[wispy bolt]

whats up with aoe blind just sometimes not doing anything. cast doesnt stop

[round latch]

havent noticed anything wrong yet,always worked for me

maybe targets immune to cc?

[wispy bolt]

happens every mega first pull in mech

[round latch]

did like 3 workshops this week,havent noticed

ill try again ig

[wispy bolt]

maybe im just bad idk

[round latch]

its anecdotal evidence fam

more need to cross to actually hold water

!blind

[surreal trellis]

so is thistle tea 100% dead

i can barely play this spec without it

like am i meant to just always have 0 energy ?

[warm marlin]

they're mechanical they can't be blinded

not a joke btw

cannot be feared either

you can check it on mdt by comparing detailed enemy info between mechanical mobs like the bomb tonks and other mobs like the elemental gunks

[lilac stag]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[surreal trellis]

true so i just started playing when the specs design was wrong i guess?

makes sense

[lilac stag]

Huh?

[surreal trellis]

when i played in 10.0

that wasnt the case

[lilac stag]

Specs change. Sub should be a burst spec with highs and lows.

you have energy when you need it

[surreal trellis]

Yeah. It makes sense

[lilac stag]

Tea is shit

[surreal trellis]

i liked it lol

[lilac stag]

It’s shit.

[surreal trellis]

i always had smth to press

[lilac stag]

Wrong spec for you then

[surreal trellis]

nah fair i dont know any different so

i just have to learn how it is now

[surreal trellis]

maybe, maybe not

i haven't played it properly yet to decide 😄

[lilac stag]

If you like pressing something all the time, it’s not sub.

[tepid trellis]

the energy downtime allows you to do the math if you can send an extra dance between cds or a nakes SoD or a sectech

its great

[surreal trellis]

is sub still really good in m+

[tepid trellis]

no

[lilac stag]

[tepid trellis]

very mid

[surreal trellis]

damn

why what happened

maybe i am playing the wrong spec then

[tepid trellis]

balancing happens

[surreal trellis]

i just want to be a ninja bro

😭

[tepid trellis]

the dial is just not turned towards sub atm

it is what it is

[surreal trellis]

fair

[lilac stag]

you can be a ninja. It’s just not great in keys

[round latch]

truth is with so much downtime u have enough time to solve one of these bad boys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamiltonian_mechanics

lul

[surreal trellis]

is outlaw the m+ spec

[tepid trellis]

Assa

[lilac stag]

Assa >= outlaw

[surreal trellis]

damn