i shived
#subtlety
lucid jackal
This the greed they talk about in the bible
ornate ruin
not as hot as u babygirl
lilac stag
bruh
lilac stag
12
lucid jackal
old venture
Honestly grats on the r1 zeros, don’t let the haters get you down
ty cuh
lucid jackal
(its rank 1 boss damage)
random hare
random hare
i dont think im able to get r1 on gallywix with our grp anyway
our evoker opens 9-13m
lucid jackal
parsing overall this tier is just effed
random hare
on the adds
old venture
Dev evoker just exists
Imagine if dev was a rogue spec, would’ve been nuked out of orbit months ago
lucid jackal
Maybe if it looked this op on week 1
manic salmon
blizz is a bunch of scalies
lucid jackal
ppl were busy glazing WW to get it 3 nerfs
old venture
True
lucid jackal
Meanwhile dev was just doing what its doing
old venture
The balance team and overnerfing week 1 specs, name a more iconic duo
warm marlin
POV: you just pulled bandit
lucid jackal
Yeah but its like, more than 4% better than most specs
manic salmon
Sometimes I wake up at night, yelling that exact sentence
mad
lucid jackal
So even without the buff it'd be insane
hollow spear
Yeah, but that makes the buff even more ridiculous
"They're not rank 1 enough for my taste"
spice matrix
I tossed and turned in bed last night after reading about the hotfix
lucid jackal
Fwiw sub still looks good
Feels better on everything except like, sprocket with a bad kill time
And mugzee depending on strat/hold damage
warm marlin
I think sub is sleeper op on sprocket
lucid jackal
depends on timer
keen dome
POV: you just pulled bandit
lucid jackal
We kill at like 4:40 
warm marlin
I hold flag for 5mins since we killing around 5:20 for weeks
we decide to kill at 4:40
I see that's a good assa kill time and decide to play assa
we decide to kill at 5:10 again
spice matrix
ye my sub still sims higher than sin after the hotfix. It is what it is
sub is just more fun
lucid jackal
I mean its farm on the easiest raid tier of all time
warm marlin
well sin undersims turbo
lucid jackal
Just play whatever
warm marlin
u cant really compare them
lucid jackal
Sin undersims, and sub feels good on every boss tbqh
manic salmon
i mean assa is imo better because rn 3 min kingsbane and 4min mark both happen in execute
lucid jackal
This is gally for example
crimson wind
I’m annoyed I spent all this time gearing for sin and finally sub is back
lucid jackal
And I trolled my CDs hard
warm marlin
why does gn private log btw guy
spice matrix
warm marlin
in farm I guess I should say
lucid jackal
Poaching/people play like morons to try and parse
keen dome
Sub owns
tepid trellis
I need to reclear without the 10% to see for myself
spice matrix
<:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
tepid trellis
it shall all fall into place
warm marlin
<:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
i am okay with this
dont let the wednesday 10%ers escape though
tepid trellis
gotta punish those filthy NA and wednesday raiders
warm marlin
my sprocket would still be r1 without the buff 
tepid trellis
well hopefully they just remove everything from tuesday when serves came up until after the hotfix came
then just do it again next reset
ez
keen dome
Can't imagine it'll be hard to do. Pretty easy window to snap out
keen dome
My poor useless heroic logs though 😦
warm marlin
tell them to remove booty adds from bandit too
tepid trellis
just had so many people ask about it so i shot a msg to wclog about it
warm marlin
i have seen too many disgusting things occurring
warm marlin
I have not damaged a premium dynamite booty since April 4th
tepid trellis
ong
warm marlin
im gonna lose my marbles
tepid trellis
not quite the same but its why certain bosses gets taken off of ASP
like stix
or ovinax
where you do cringe shit to parse
warm marlin
yea i just think bandit is mildly similar since you can choose when and what adds to spawn at specific times
the ethical no add strat is def easier
but feelsbad
void hound
any boss with adds will always be a memey when it comes to parsing
tepid trellis
all you can really do is ask wclog about it, and show logs of people doing cringe stuff with it
i remember getting the adds on Kurog turned off
cuz people just infinite spawned them
sour stump
Is sub a good alternative if outlaw is making want to killingspree my self?
lilac stag
I emailed them with the patch data. They’re supposedly looking at it.
lilac stag
Is sub a good alternative if outlaw is making want to killingspree my self?
In raid sure. Keys nope
keen dome
Someone send them a fax, just to be safe.
clever delta
<:Pepegrin:1375228958282612797>
i was actually about to write them too 😄
crimson wind
Is it a hot take to say I miss dust, sub hasn’t been the same for me since
tepid trellis
lukewarm
clever delta
i liked dust too
tepid trellis
at best
lilac stag
Idk so use to having an email trail for everything else I do, I just shot them one. Very fast response. 
lucid jackal
thats boss dmg
Ya im saying both specs do good boss damage
sub probs a bit better
I played this clear like shit and I still did a lot ST
tepid trellis
with or without the extra 5?
random hare
million dollar question right there
tepid trellis
fair fair
lucid jackal
Spec is still good
lilac stag
5% vs zeros 4 PIs
lucid jackal
Only boss thats bad for sub is mugzee based on strat, and then sprocket based on kill timers
random hare
how can we tell if he didnt get PI on sub too?!?
lucid jackal
We killed at 4:40 so like lol
random hare
maybe he abused PI as sub for last sectec??
lucid jackal
Literal tank damage
tepid trellis
how can we tell if he didnt get PI on sub too?!?
now i know how guy is being meme'd in gn so there is no shot
lilac stag
how can we tell if he didnt get PI on sub too?!?
It would have been .00002% better with PI
crimson wind
Piñon sub rogue is hot dog water no?
tepid trellis
he would be getting that lol
crimson wind
Pi on *
tepid trellis
Literal tank damage
do they still call you an outlaw otp even tho i barely play it?
random hare
do they still call you an outlaw otp even tho i barely play it?
u mean u
or
u to him
not u to you
lilac stag
UwU
tepid trellis
some decent banter in their guild
lucid jackal
do they still call you an outlaw otp even tho i barely play it?
I played it last tier for a few weeks
random hare
i play all specs equally
lucid jackal
But no not really LOL
crimson wind
i play all specs equally
Which one has the most aura in your opinion
random hare
Which one has the most aura in your opinion
outlaw if no ks, for now i think sub
stiff ermine
is echoing void still best power even though sims are bugged?
tepid trellis
sims arent bugged, its bugged ingame
stiff ermine
still best option then?
lilac stag
GW for raid
tepid trellis
shit doesent proc as much as it should
lilac stag
VR or TD for rng fiesta
spice matrix
Blizz hotfixing sub faster than you can say abra kadabra. Echoing void busted for 2 weeks 
warm compass
If KS is removed I'll play outlaw
What would you change it too
swift tinsel
remote eagle
why did people say that tfd bug was fixed yesterday? seems to be working for me
warm marlin
what if the hero tree was built around feint instead 
remote eagle
or am i missing something
lilac stag
You can’t force it with vanish any longer
remote eagle
You can’t force it with vanish any longer
just checked in a follower dungeon and looks like you can
still the same sstorm macro
neon frigate
Hey guys I really need help with PSF +12. I just so stuck. Other dungeons i have on 12. Can I make a log and somebody check it? Or is it just that it is difficult with sub?
lucid jackal
What would you change it too
Make blarderush a longer CD and more impactful
graceful crown
Excuse me show rio?
I guess its easier get meta rio with meta class
But i must say assa is not that meta
stiff spear
Hey, for the head enchant are we still doing Void Ritual or is Echoing Void fixed?
manic salmon
Excuse me show rio?
are you dense
molten citrus
Hey, for the head enchant are we still doing Void Ritual or is Echoing Void fixe...
Afaik still bugged
tall oriole
Do i send shadow dance on cd or till i have 2 stacks ?
lucid jackal
is it actually
Ya
warm marlin
Jealous
hybrid prism
fucking sick holy cow!
zenith prism
any different rotation for this build？
lilac stag
It’s a sub talent
graceful crown
considering you dont really struggle with energy ever
graceful crown
It’s a sub talent
fair
manic salmon
considering you dont really struggle with energy ever
because the times you do struggle with energy are outside of dps windows
manic salmon
i believe so
graceful crown
imagine they combined the rotten with goremaw's bite
lilac stag
lilac stag
that was the artifact ability
hoary lotus
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
and for 4 months WM caused it to deal excessive dmg when it was activated
hoary lotus
What is optimal Sim for st at after buffs
lilac stag
the what?
hoary lotus
Dps
lilac stag
2.8 ish
hoary lotus
Huh
lilac stag
max sim is around 2.8 with the corrected buff
hoary lotus
Did it get fixed
lilac stag
what?
hoary lotus
I simmed 2.9
lilac stag
check the pins
hoary lotus
And i don't have jastors
lilac stag
sub doesnt exactly care about jastors
dry plank
How they notice so fast about sub bug?
tepid trellis
probably same way we did
lilac stag
Lurking on discord.
spice matrix
We were doing good damage. Seemed uncharacteristic
tepid trellis
Lurking on discord. <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
well more like through the same way we catch spell changes
it was right in there
lilac stag
yea
tepid trellis
2 different auras
manic salmon
they should have left it in, lets be real
lilac stag
manic salmon
with how bad the gameplay loop is with sub you should be rewarded for playing it
lilac stag
the gameplay loop is fine. Minor adjustments needed
dry plank
I only played for 40 min yday 😦
manic salmon
dont tell me you love competing with healers outside of your cooldowns
and minor inconvenience in your cooldowns meaning 300k dps loss
tepid trellis
its also not that extreme but yes i do like having insane burst dmg
lilac stag
I don’t give a fuck if healers beat me outside of CDs
lucid jackal
with how bad the gameplay loop is with sub you should be rewarded for playing it
whats wrong with the bameplay loop?
lilac stag
just move the dps back to dance and off flag/blades
dry plank
its also not that extreme but yes i do like having insane burst dmg
Insane is very strong word. We not even in top3
manic salmon
whats wrong with the bameplay loop?
subjective but its just too reliant on cds
lilac stag
play assa or outlaw if you want dps outside of CDs
lucid jackal
Insane is very strong word. We not even in top3
Sub is one of the strongest burst specs in the entire game
Especially if you remove lust from the equasion
lilac stag
lulz
lucid jackal
U could try assa
manic salmon
i do play assa
tepid trellis
thats why we have different specs
manic salmon
correct
tepid trellis
they should work differently
manic salmon
i dont disagree
keen dome
I want mine to do the best flat damage though
lilac stag
every spec should have killing spree
manic salmon
i just think its very cringe in my own very personal opinion!!
keen dome
Well let's not get crazy here Scath
lilac stag
Then don’t play it
lilac stag
and play something that most of us find cringe. Assa
manic salmon
i do play it when needed
tepid trellis
i just think its very cringe in my own very personal opinion!!
but in my opinion having dmg outside of cds is super duper cringe
manic salmon
and thats fine! the spec is for you then :3
keen dome
Hell yeah it does
dry plank
but in my opinion having dmg outside of cds is super duper cringe
Tell it mm hunter ))
lilac stag
i dont speak to hunters
Says future Demon Hunter Raccoonidari
manic salmon
theres also another language
dry plank
despite them reverting the overbuff, the spec is still very good so
It was good before buff according to your opinion
keen dome
Well, Guy was right then too
manic salmon
which is tbagging them when they are dead
keen dome
Sub is cool and good
lilac stag
It was good before buff according to your opinion
It went to awful at one point last week.
lucid jackal
It was good before buff according to your opinion
Where did I say that
oblique grove
the based department is back in order
tepid trellis
Gally boss dmg
is it?
tepid trellis
now thats 2 very different things
lucid jackal
The entire context of rogue spec evaluation is within the rogue class
U play 1 rogue always
Why would I compare rogue to DK
manic salmon
not rly
tepid trellis
MM WW arcane Arms
manic salmon
ur comparing it at this point now
tepid trellis
Feral
manic salmon
where kill times are extremely scuffed
tepid trellis
Havoc
lucid jackal
I care about how good rogue in the context of each spec
because u always play 1 rogue
Whether or not rogue is top 1 or top 10 overall idrc
manic salmon
on prog sub was good on many bosses for its burst and assa was pretty much bis on mugzee prog
you could run bomb coin with sub because it lined up perfectly on prog
lucid jackal
what
manic salmon
windwalker? the spec that had to be nerfed 3 times with how broken it was?
glacial halo
Worse than another class =/= worthless holy shit
lucid jackal
Worse than another class =/= worthless holy shit
Obviously
dry plank
So your good mean comparing to all rogue spec between each other?
leaden plover
i mean everyone wants their go to "spec" to be the best, so its a common thing lol
lucid jackal
reroll and dont come back
lilac stag
i mean everyone wants their go to "spec" to be the best, so its a common thing l...
i think most in here are happy to be playable / competitive
dry plank
Not best but not 10-25% behind ))
glacial halo
Obviously
Yeah and I was referring to dude who is comparing it to every other fucking melee class in the game rather than the other rogue specs
leaden plover
i think most in here are happy to be playable / competitive
tru
tepid trellis
for fun i scrolled down boss dmg parses
without* externals
to see how many specs i see before i found a sub rogue
it was number 20
manic salmon
thats like going to the sewer to find fresh water
glacial halo
Then reroll fotm like everyone else tf
lilac stag
just need a better filtration system
lilac stag
it was number 20
Where is it without externals?
lilac stag
Oh said with. Got it.
manic salmon
oh
tepid trellis
meant without
tepid trellis
so 20 out of 26 it could still be worse
manic salmon
skill issue
lilac stag
How many more robbed parse posts we gonna get.
tepid trellis
its not much but its honest work
limpid sage
you'll get one more as soon as I'm done with this run
void hound
did logs get scrapped or do you mean you played post bug
clever delta
hopefully it get scrapped before sunday :))
dusk stone
outlaw is up to 6.5mil in brew
with lashga's last attempt we're around 20% behind in that key atm
gritty knot
Evening. I was robbed of so many parses. Fkn hate this game
Joking. I wasnt in raid for weeks
lilac stag
Have you tried playing a game without damage meters?
gritty knot
I do that. And it feels nice. But I keep getting kicked, idk why. I see big evis numbers
shut ridge
Have you tried playing a game without damage meters?
why even live at that point
crimson wind
Have you tried playing a game without damage meters?
you mean the only important add on?
smoky jolt
i just cant seem to break the 3m mark steadily in keys. its like every other key i do fine, then i doodoo the bed the next.
spice matrix
did logs get scrapped or do you mean you played post bug
I don’t think they ever deleted all of the outlaw trickster exploit parses did they?
void hound
I don’t think they ever deleted all of the outlaw trickster exploit parses did t...
they do it sometimes, not sure about the specific situation you are referring to
lilac stag
They tried to. Not sure they got all of them.
limpid sage
did logs get scrapped or do you mean you played post bug
I played post bug
Skill issue I know
sly shore
All I care about is "what spec am I playing as a rogue"
what spec am I playing out of sub and assa
ftfy
Imagine they turn AR into an actual CD and reduce apm and rename the spec to combat
void hound
pliant topaz
Imagine they turn AR into an actual CD and reduce apm and rename the spec to com...
where would all the giga adhd yellow name angry copers go then?
pliant topaz
real as fuck
alpine wraith
combat was so cool maybe when they play mop they will realize
full acorn
Do you guys know if the russian Sub has a yt channel or something
I wanna study how to do well in m+
severe prism
you can watch his runs on twitch he let the replays
jaunty heath
APM is up IQ is down 
worn ivy
russian rogue twtich name
salatiko
u can watch him
butthe problem is he did it when we had 10% on 19's
also his comp is BDK
so he mostly get carried on aoe pulls
what u wanna learn just ask here
sour stump
how do people do like 10m eviscerates? I can't seem to get higher than 5m
lilac stag
where would all the giga adhd yellow name angry copers go then?
Felhammer
full acorn
I asked some other russian twitch streamer and got his twitch
cursive fulcrum
I should just spam eviscerates during the excess symbols duration (after dance), correct? like we shouldn't snapshot a rupture or anything?
cursive fulcrum
symbols is 10 sec, and dance is 8. when used twice during cd's, you have four sec of symbols after
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hybrid prism
is echoing void still bugged? what are yall going with over it?
shadow ermine
!stats
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste
small inlet
is echoing void still bugged? what are yall going with over it?
I'm playing gushing instead, works fine
tepid trellis
I should just spam eviscerates during the excess symbols duration (after dance),...
snapshotting has largely been removed from the game outside of a few edge cases
alpine wraith
yea only feral enjoys that gameplay (not really)
tepid trellis
it might have stats from the 2 days of 10%
opal basalt
its only 101 runs
serene notch
Oh was that why I had a random day of shooting like an extra million on a Prior run?
opal basalt
surely nobody of them abused 10% bug
serene notch
Was not aware 😦
lilac stag
surely nobody of them abused 10% bug
Surely not the 5 people running keys as sub
serene notch
What was the bug?
opal basalt
we got buffed by 5% twice
serene notch
Bummer….
lilac stag
Can’t have rogue going past mid in raid. Sorry.
serene notch
Well if it was fixed yesterday I’ll be a cup half full guy and be happy with the improvement
First chance I got to play was last night
lilac stag
4.6% better than total shit
serene notch
Hey atleast I do more then aug now kekw
opal basalt
im having way too much fun on sub rn to even care about my damage lol
but i'm also only 658 and doing 10s
lilac stag
Fun is the importantly thing
serene notch
Yea sub has highest Funs per min
lilac stag
It is a game after all
serene notch
dont worry guys i only did a 12
How did it feel?
wispy bolt
Sub is not good in mythic plus now. It was playable on 10%. back to being a griefer if you play it now
Def can time 16s tho with half a brain
Speaking of m+, 16s and 17s pugs are full of boosted toons this week. Healers that can't heal, dps that get hit by every mechanic etc
chrome palm
Sub can def be played with the right comp on the right key
wispy bolt
No shaman = geief, but also just play assa unfortunately
chrome palm
Shaman is the same gain for sin and sub no?
hazy breach
Roughly ye
thin sinew
While it wasn't as challenging as a 5 mask last week. i'm still pretty content with this
sub rogue cleave burst just Kreygasm
viral phoenix
for these delayed first cds on sub for gally are they sending flag as the ads spawn or more lining it up for 2nd dance to hit ads
placid tendon
brittle plinth
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
hazy breach
Its just to padd on adds
serene notch
Def can time 16s tho with half a brain
Im still only 3/4ths through my 13s, hope I can get to a place where this is a problem for me to think about.
solid star
i was looking up trinkets for sub and i was suprised, can anyone tell me why transmitter is the 2nd best one fur sub?
short radish
because main stat 
ornate heron
Sin no garrote build
ornate heron
i was looking up trinkets for sub and i was suprised, can anyone tell me why tra...
It's house of cards and a passive trinket.
If you don't have house of cards it's transmitter only because of the 1:30 CD
And it's big damage for your CDs
molten citrus
can just use pvp trinket
tribal blade
i would use pvp trink over transmitter
you're taking an unintended dps loss usually doing transmitter bs
lilac stag
@tribal blade 23% on mugz. enough dps to skip to 4 jails. i unfortunately needed to be added to 1st jail to help lock
left flame
so sub parses are just fucked bc all the top parses have the 10% buff from tuesday lmao
how is playing sub getting worst somehow
bright elk
the parse thing is a bummer but the 5% does feel better
than last week
the devs giveth and they taketh away
tribal blade
so sub parses are just fucked bc all the top parses have the 10% buff from tuesd...
yeah no matter what they do someone is getting fucked
they leave it up and the people who didn't get to kill with the double buff are screwed
they take it away the people who killed during the double buff get screwed
left flame
im just whining bc i 98 parsed a .7% wipe on tuesday and now im 30 parsing today
tribal blade
oh yeah i agree it sucks
left flame
c'est la vie brother, c'est la vie @tribal blade
rocky ocean
🇫🇷
smoky jolt
Before the retune - it did.
round latch
Did sub surpassed sin after this week buffs
sims higher for me but im playing sin with mast/vers for m+
chrome palm
18 dfc feelsgoodman
tribal blade
18 dfc feelsgoodman
sub seems good in dfc
esp because you can hard pad on shitters that die fast
tribal blade
are you sending cds immediately on the big dude while it's being dragged through to the other room
first pull
every time i do that place that kinda defines who does the most 1st pull dmg
wispy bolt
my /use Tempered Potion macro stopped working all of a sudden. didnt change it
signet still works in the same macro
/use item:212264 works tf
i hate this game sometimes
fallow nimbus
That's a r2 potion
wispy bolt
yeah but why doesnt the name work
fallow nimbus
Sometimes it just doesn't work since blizz started with these ranked potions
chrome palm
are you sending cds immediately on the big dude while it's being dragged through...
I was just rupturing the small guys while he dragged them in
Boomie missed vortex which hurt first pull dam
tribal blade
I was just rupturing the small guys while he dragged them in
ahh gotcha
short radish
my `/use Tempered Potion` macro stopped working all of a sudden. didnt change it
In order
3* fleeting
2* fleeting
3* real tempered potion
2* real tempered potion
#showtooltip
/use [combat]item:212971
/use [combat]item:212970
/use [combat]item:212265
/use [combat]item:212264
wild hornet
I'm starting to think if I should hold my 2nd CD set for bombs that appear at like 2:30
But I'd probably lose a whole cast
On oab
wild hornet
Yeah I did
The bombs there happen at 1:35
Ours at 2:28 or so
Im just trying to figure out how I could move CDs
Possibly to avoid having to play assa
worn ivy
sly shore
Ours at 2:28 or so
you're getting premium dynamite at 02:30?
that means you're doing completely the wrong order
one order has them at 01.30, the other skips them
haughty rose
what do you think about this top comps list?
alpine wraith
wonder what happened when they logged in today or yesterday
short radish
maybe making use of the 10% damage buff
keen pike
yerro again asking a stupid question
i seem to be very VERY energy starved when not in shadow dance
is that normal?
am i doing something wrong?
if i ABC i seem to gut my energy during shadowdance
alpine wraith
yea it is normal
keen pike
do i just hold back on casting during down time?
chrome palm
No you need to maintain rupture and get cdr on dance and sec tech by casting
keen pike
should i do it like, if i have 70+ energy then i press bs? cause if i spam BS to evi the moment i have it and go into dance im not able to SS evi SS evi
steel zinc
is echoing void still bugged in sims?
keen pike
sorry dont we only SOD with sectech?
dreamy badger
wild hornet
you're getting premium dynamite at 02:30?
Yeah they die before my next set
I think the order is 1 6 and whatever else
sly shore
yeah you're doing some unheard of combination lol
Coin & Bomb
Shock & Flame
Shock & Bomb
Flame & Bomb
Coin & Shock```This is the combination Liquid did on prog
Coin & Shock
Shock & Flame
Flame & Bomb
Shock & Bomb
Coin & Bomb```This is the combination people do now because with the old one you get a ranom pylon spawn due to push timing
sly shore
oh you're doing a normal order
the 3 spawn is irrelevant
they can be full CC
as long as you get a single dance on them that's all you can do
wild hornet
Wouldn't that result in holding the 3rd flag for maybe 20 seconds or so
wild hornet
not like you need that dance on the reel assistant
That's I assume the damage on one of the reel assistants during that dance window?
Like from 2:13 to 2:21
sly shore
YES
oops caps
might as well move it
since you only get one dance between cd's there anyway
could maye fit a sod+sectech on the assistant if you want to, i forget timings
short radish
yerro again asking a stupid question
i seem to be very VERY energy starved when ...
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
tidal chasm
who's this slavic guy always doing +1 key higher on sub than everyone else what a god
alpine wraith
someone with good friends
keen pike
i dont wanna be that guy but is there a way to stop this macro from being spammed?
#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/cast Cold Blood
/cast symbols of death
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique
i dont want symbols to be spammable
alpine wraith
why do you have that macro
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
lilac stag
Don’t use that macro
alpine wraith
prevents it casting ore than once
lilac stag
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
keen pike
yea but i want it to be in that macro
keen pike
i dont have shadow dance in that macro
its jsut for the opener
how do i put it
i have mutiple buttons of shadowblades
and multiple buttons for sectech
lilac stag
Why?
short radish
but why
alpine wraith
sadly sub needs some piano
best i can say is get practice
the dps loss is not trivial
also it messes up some timings but you cant add the thing i linked to one with all the things
keen pike
but this is the opener button no?
lilac stag
You have Sectech abd a Sectech + CB
Macro trinket to Sblades
No it’s not the opener.
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
alpine wraith
tbh blades with sec tech is fine mostly but sod is just wrong there
keen pike
symbol + sectech
cold blood + sectech
u want to sec tech in shadowblades
lilac stag
No
alpine wraith
ideally you use blades a bit after sec tech but not like that because also
you want to use cb on the second sec tech of the cds
alpine wraith
dont worry you will get used to it
keen pike
i just want it to be muscle memory before i remove the macro
alpine wraith
seems more difficult than it is
alpine wraith
you can go 2 ways around cb
alpine wraith
you can have one standalone and oen with macro like me
or have a cb bind
and press it when needed
tidal chasm
yeah I have two buttons for a lot of stuff
lilac stag
If you come in here looking for help, the 20 of us or so that are active aren’t going to give you bad or improper ways to play the spec. We’re going to give you the right way of doing things and how to adjust.
alpine wraith
but yea the sod one is fine alone that way you cant spam it
lilac stag
that macro is just a bandaid that you can fix with 10 minutes on a training dummy
alpine wraith
but also remember if you keep pressing it wont reset
lilac stag
keen dome
As somebody who used to use macros: don't. Learn without them. It goes faster and builds muscle memory better and quicker.
It will actively make Sub unfun
keen pike
that macro i made it really just rip ass cause what what i see the wowhead opener recommended
keen pike
does it not ask for
after flag
rup
backstab in dance with SOD
into blades +sectech?
lilac stag
Where do you see everything stacked together?
keen pike
right why did i not have a macro for sd+sod lul
btw i know this isnt a right thing to do its just for an opener
but thanks
LOL
ah nah i did it
brittle plinth
What's the play to go from 10s to 3k? I usually try and pug but not sure if I should be targeting 11s or 12s. 11s seem to take hours to fill and seem pretty awful.
keen dome
What's the play to go from 10s to 3k? I usually try and pug but not sure if I sh...
12's are pretty chill
keen pike
13 is still pretty chill
keen dome
lilac stag
You don’t do dance and sod becuse they are differnt cd lengths and you need dance up before sod to ensure supercharged hits second Sectech
keen dome
this will get you 3k
keen pike
14 is where low damage feels bad
tidal chasm
What's the play to go from 10s to 3k? I usually try and pug but not sure if I sh...
find a friend and just skip 11 its a waste of time and takes forever
short radish
yeah no one wants to do 11s
keen dome
If you have a tank friend, just run 12's / 13's with them. It's super chill and groups wil fill fast
keen dome
Also good advice
short radish
or 3 chest it and run the 13
brittle plinth
find a friend and just skip 11 its a waste of time and takes forever
Friend option works for a vault unlock but they're pushing into 15 and I'm a bit behind and non meta.
Have to do this on my own for now
Will try and push my 10 into 12
Good plan
Thanks
keen pike
u bring your 10 to a 12/13 your friend who push 15 are sure fine to do them with you no?
lilac stag
depends how you define “friends”
brittle plinth
I'm sure they would if I asked, I just don't want to keep relying on them
Gotta do my own thing eventually ya?
keen pike
if your friends are prone to drama then yea id say go off on your own
brittle plinth
This is a game based on knowing people and interacting
Absolutely but they're a fixed 5 stack, and run two groups. They've helped me a ton but I can't keep expecting them to do extra runs they don't need for just me.
But ya I'm less worried about the getting ppl to help me part and more about a strategy on doing it in the pug way :p
fleet wharf
hey guys, for sake of crafting gear, how much better is vers compared to crit for sub?
hollow spear
Ask the sim
alpine wraith
dont worry if they are doing 15s they can always still improve and getting more runs is never bad
hollow spear
Crit and vers are both good
fleet wharf
Is it bad to craft mast/crit gear so I can do both assa and sub?
alpine wraith
nah it is ok
fleet wharf
how much is too much mastery?
alpine wraith
34k
fleet wharf
That's pretty high up there. I'm only at 25k
alpine wraith
then that is fine mostly although you can always sim gearsets
hollow spear
Hacha gets high on the mastery
Don't worry about him
"One more big sectec, just one more..."
fleet wharf
You basically need a simcraft sub if you wanna sim gears though right?
fleet wharf
But it caps out at like 300k variables. Or would I just sim mast/crit gear vs mast/verse gear 1 slot at a time?
keen dome
You could also go into droptimzer and just sim the crafted stuff there
fleet wharf
TIL. thank you
short radish
You basically need a simcraft sub if you wanna sim gears though right?
it really doesnt matter
especially if youre doing keys
keen dome
Fim is right, though. It doesn't really matter.
fleet wharf
Does it matter for raiding at all?
short radish
fleet wharf
For M+, I feel there are only a few dungeons I don't want to go bleed on because the overall damage is just so much higher
short radish
Does it matter for raiding at all?
a bit more but not enough to lose sleep ove
unless youre chasing r1
fleet wharf
Yea, nowhere near close to that, but that is useful, puts things into perspective
hollow spear
I am a vers fan, gives me extra survivability on top of the dmg
keen dome
I want more Mastery but my desire for it is countered by my laziness and being ilevel capped
void ocean
Gentlemen, with great pleasure I inform you I did above 4M overall for the first time this season in a key... Given it was only +10 Priory and my gear is 679 but still... SUB IS BACK BABY
hollow spear
I think my mastery is at 14k
keen dome
Gentlemen, with great pleasure I inform you I did above 4M overall for the first...
Fuck yeah, well done!!!
BIG dam
fleet wharf
btw, which are teh better sub dungeons this season?
void ocean
Also pulls were kinda weird and I died on the 2nd boss like an idiot
hollow spear
btw, which are teh better sub dungeons this season?
ToP and Workshop are the best, probably
next valley
btw, which are teh better sub dungeons this season?
Any with a dmg amp is quite fun
fleet wharf
Yea, mechagon feels pretty good because of the forced intermissions that give you the first dance stacks
hollow spear
Rookery last boss is fun, but first boss is pain
next valley
Motherload first boss
fleet wharf
Sometimes I notice the first dance stacks when I vanish in a pack but it seems a bit inconsistent. how does it work exactly?
I hear Sec Tech doesn't work properly on the first boss, is that right?
next valley
Clones don't work on him when he's in the middle
Even during the bit when he's floating in the middle?
hollow spear
Wdym even
fleet wharf
seems like it's only while he's floating
next valley
Wdym even
First boss of rookery right, when he flights into the middle pit and has beams going out
Do clones not work during that?
hollow spear
Don't think they do
fleet wharf
how do you guys feel about floodgate as sub? I feel assa just does a lot more overall in that dungeon
fleet wharf
so cinderbrew and floodgate are prolly the worse dungeons to be sub for?
hollow spear
It can outperform sub on 3rd if you pull trash with boss
I mean, what key level are you playing?
fleet wharf
nothing too serious, mostly 10s and 12s. Might push a bit more now, but nothing too high. I doubt I'll push above 15
I'm currently maining shadow priest, but think I want to make a transition to playing rogue next tier if possible and have been putting a bit more time into my rogue
fleet wharf
Yea, but it feels bad on cinderbrew esp considering how much easier it is to play bleed assa on that dungeon
hollow spear
If you want to turn off your brain, play bleed sin everywhere
fleet wharf
On a somewhat related note, I read above that I need to make sure that I press SoD to buff sec tech on the 2nd dance of the opener. What's the prio list for SoD buff targets? I'm guessing it's sec tech -> Coup -> Evisc, but wasn't sure what the right way to get more value from the spell
hollow spear
Can't really choose there
Once your sectec is on <= 9s cd, you press sod and that's it
You always want to get a sectec in your sod, getting a coup is a bonus
fleet wharf
that's during opener/cd burst phase right?
hollow spear
Yes
fleet wharf
what about when you've got extra sec techs? need to hold onto dance so you have enough going into the next burst phase, but you're gonna be overcapping SoD
just send Sec tech with SoD right?
hollow spear
Between bursts, you can sometimes coup as first finisher in dance/sod, but no need to play around that much
fleet wharf
Also, am I optimizing at all for SoD uptime or is most of the power behind the extra combo point finishers?
hollow spear
You can sectec with only sod once per fight, usually
fleet wharf
So in all other situations, pair dance/SoD with sec techs, except during burst in which case follow the above recommendation?
when it's <= 9sec cd for sec tech, i'm pressing SoD, builder into sec tech and then whatever the finisher happens to be
Is it ever worth doing black powder to make sure I get coup + sec tech buffed by a single SOD?
hollow spear
Not really
void ocean
I wouldn't overthink it
hollow spear
You can black powder 10-15 seconds before a burst window to maintain tier set and keep coup
If you don't need the cdr you can also just backstab to build up shadow technique stacks
fleet wharf
If you don't need the cdr you can also just backstab to build up shadow techniqu...
to clarify, this is during downtime when you already have combo points maxed out right?
fleet wharf
Yea, it's just kind of crazy how low our baseline damage is
hollow spear
Once you've become good at the burst window and understanding when you can send dances between, you can think about that stuff
No reason to optimize these little things before you've fully grasped these two things
keen dome
Extremely good advice, imo
fleet wharf
How would I know when I fucked up sending dances in between? Is it when I can't do 2 dance back to back when I send my cds?
alpine wraith
if your dance is 1 stack and more than 35 secs when flag is off cd
you dun goofer
same with symbols if you dont have 1 stack and 14 secs at least
or if cb is more than 14 secs off
fleet wharf
LE's weak aura has been really helpful in gauging when I can send my dances, I haven't yet unbound CB with Sec Tech yet, but I guess maybe that's the next thing I can work on
@alpine wraith thank you for those shorthands though, I haven't thought about it like that yet
alpine wraith
guess i could add those timers kinda too for people to know or do a short one about it
it is good to know them as you can just look at three places when flag is off cd and know more or less
if you need to delay a bit
fleet wharf
Do you have links to the sheet? looks really useful
alpine wraith
yea it is in my profile
keen dome
LE's weak aura has been really helpful in gauging when I can send my dances, I h...
LE's WA's are the goat
fleet wharf
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
fleet wharf
LE's WA's are the goat
legit a large part of why I've been enjoying rogue more because it's been so helpful
Also, is it even worth having shuriken toss be bound somewhere?
vale pine
iti is rly niche
you rarely use it
basically only if you are away from a boss and have no other option to dump energy
fleet wharf
But only during downtime right? I feel your energy fills up so slowly during downtime I don't even know if it is worth having on my bars at all
bleak night
lilac stag
You’re only using it when you’re not going to be starved when getting back on boss. Very rarely. Maybe a ranged soak.
void hound
shuriken toss is not worth the keybind lol
lilac stag
better off just stepping back and slapping
void hound
i guess F8 is still free 
fleet wharf
Btw, it sounds like you guys are tracking the tier set, any recommended WAs for that?
!wa
wicked joltBOT
void hound
luxthos has it built in
void ocean
Btw, it sounds like you guys are tracking the tier set, any recommended WAs for ...
Naah
lilac stag
Btw, it sounds like you guys are tracking the tier set, any recommended WAs for ...
Use LE’s and just pull a tier set wa off wago. It’s really not worth the effort to track
fleet wharf
It doesn't seem to have a duration next to it, how do you go about maximizing utility from the tier set?
void ocean
I just pray if i need t to sneak in a finisher between dances
I become very religious
fleet wharf
In a perfect world I want to go into flag with as high of the tier set bonus as possble
void ocean
embrace the gamba
I already did, on my dm fdk
lilac stag
I’m a perfect world our tier set bonus mattered.
fleet wharf
lol it looks good, is it shit now?
lilac stag
it’s shit
fleet wharf
I know there was a nerf early in the season but damn
void ocean
Scath woke up on his doomin leg 🤣
fleet wharf
So my play doesn't change at all huh
lilac stag
Then you can worry about stacks
lilac stag
So my play doesn't change at all huh
There’s a few niche situations where not pressing anything is a gain. Idk if that makes you feel better or worse about it.
In general just finishing will result in higher dps overall.
fleet wharf
Another question, why is it that sometimes my shadowstrikes will fill up my combo points to max but sometimes only to 5 during cds?
short radish
lilac stag
I added this to LE's Item group in the rogue WA @fleet wharf copy between the ``` markup. discord apparently doesnt like my message length
short radish
Another question, why is it that sometimes my shadowstrikes will fill up my comb...
shadowcraft
also potentially weaponmaster
also potentially shadow techniques
fleet wharf
Yea I think this is the kind of shit they can prolly standradize and make eaiser to understand lmao
void hound
so true
void ocean
I mean, ppl who dont like decision making usually play assa
short radish
alpine wraith
actually it is always a dps gain to hold coup until if it procs least 15 secs or so before flag
just dont finish or anything
it was around 0,3
might put it somewhere in the sheet
lilac stag
coup yes, evis no
alpine wraith
evis for tier set is kinda weird in sims
fleet wharf
But back to the question, but basically if I have a shammy buff, I'll get more combo points during dances right?
alpine wraith
in real situations you can kinda make educated guesses but not much more
lilac stag
yes
alpine wraith
more cps everywhere
lilac stag
if you dont have a shammy, unalive yourself and play assa
void hound
actually it is always a dps gain to hold coup until if it procs least 15 secs or...
the way i play currently is, holding coup for max one finisher (bp)
is it better to not use a finisher at all? or rupture i guess
void hound
all we need is purge of logs
real
lilac stag
send more requests to WCL
alpine wraith
the way i play currently is, holding coup for max one finisher (bp)
is it better...
no finisher at all if it is this situation
to bank cps on sht
lilac stag
so far theyve gotten 2, maybe 3 lol
void hound
huh
alpine wraith
you will flag rupture anyway
void hound
interesting
void ocean
I got 97% parse last night on Vexie hc which i assume would be 100 if it wasnt for the Wednesday raiding 🤣
clever delta
i will send them email actually
lilac stag
i linked the github datamine with mine
clever delta
the R1 on vexie is post fix i think
lilac stag
it's just under fuu's pin
void ocean
4.4M dps on vexie hc
fleet wharf
actually it is always a dps gain to hold coup until if it procs least 15 secs or...
is there a stack count to make the math easier for when I should just stop sending finishers?
alpine wraith
you can look at scalating blade but coup is very noticeable when it procs
as it does when you get 4
void hound
@alpine wraith so you only pool if you get a coup before flag but not otherwise
alpine wraith
on normal dances you can also do it but it is not as big
void hound
interesting
alpine wraith
mostly because using coup outside dance is weaker and also has more chances to krangle tier
void hound
i messed around with SHT pooling on gallywix, and it worked quite well there
i guess i ahve to try it out more
alpine wraith
but tier set is silly because between bugs and things you could ignore it
and by variance you would not even notice it
but when you highroll 1 or 2 cd dances you will notice
fleet wharf
so once I build up to coup, unless I'm going to be missing multiple finishers, it's ok to hold onto it until the next burst phase from the sounds of it? with 15 sec being the rough guideline?
alpine wraith
you might also want to check cdr
fleet wharf
oh, so the cdr is the other variable, I see
alpine wraith
depending on downtime might need to send it anyway if when flag is off cd you would not have the correct cdr on dance
but also with pooling sht you can send with dance at like 1 stack 40 secs or less because you will finish 3 or 4 times in a row
depending
fleet wharf
Also, i've seen builds with the rotten and finality, (I heard about rotten being kind of buggy/weird with multi hit moves). Does it matter much which I go with for the final point?
alpine wraith
rotten is more for m+ now
after you get gear usually finality is more st
you kinda talent rotten to get FW on all mobs and enable to use bp
fleet wharf
yea, I still don't get the interaction all that well. Do I want to use shuriken form to apply FW in aoe?
alpine wraith
yea on your second stack of rotten
dances in aoe are quite easy
you strike sec tech storm then use bp until coup is ready
only diff is you want to evis once or so at the beginning of the key to get snd
fleet wharf
oh so you want bp and not evisc in aoe? how many targets does bp become better than evisc?
fleet wharf
Well I've been doing my aoe completely wrong lol
hollow spear
no finisher at all if it is this situation
I guess you sometimes have to send rupture or bp if you need some more cdr
fleet wharf
Rupture seems like it can't break tier set, so isn't it always better to just be refreshing with ruptures?
alpine wraith
you could yea
opal basalt
is that more of a min max approach or just in general how you SHOULD play?
i've been using hekili these past few days and trying to figure out stuff analysing what it tells me to do
fleet wharf
I mean isnt every min maxing discussion about how things "should" be played?
opal basalt
but holding coup never came to mind
alpine wraith
last things were mix maxy
graceful crown
Its a must play 2 daggers?
void hound
if you are using hekili you are very far away from tier set min maxing
alpine wraith
because they have a lot of caveats
void hound
and shouldnt bother at all
alpine wraith
i did explain them but if you are not stable on the spec ignore them for now
hazy breach
Its a must play 2 daggers?
Yes, its like a 4-5% loss to use something else in the offhand
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
graceful crown
Alright thanks