subtlety

[vale pine]

if you know something missing just message me

[tribal blade]

i dunno CT does a lot of dam for sin

in aoe

[alpine wraith]

even in st if some targets are around

that would be a cool add to bp kekw

[vale pine]

assassiantions BF implementaion is also a lot better than sub/outlaws equivalent

[alpine wraith]

or sec tech

they made the two convergent circles quite recently iirc

on spatter

[tribal blade]

yeah it's kinda wild how stacked sin's aoe toolkit is

[alpine wraith]

used to be like feral one that bugs out

it also does not help lots of things with deathstalker that are helping assa

do jack for sub

like when we got the plague dmg inc

[lilac stag]

11.2 assa get real acrobatic back

[alpine wraith]

they didnt buff singular

or made sec tech work with it

or parts of rupture

etc etc

and DN not working with bp

and lots of other things

they just dont have time or will to fix things

[lilac stag]

Cause assa cleave and aoe is unplayable without acrobatic strikes range

[alpine wraith]

i can never get used to assa fok not being 1 cp per target

but needing to crit

[lilac stag]

just crit

[clever delta]

are we sectech first in dance now? unless coup ready

[graceful osprey]

Saw a wowhead post…are we really getting a 5% buff? Is this real?

[heady dragon]

crit bozo

[haughty mural]

Brotherman how long have you not played sub?

[alpine wraith]

i just never press change spec

and it is fixed

think i still have redirect in my assa bars

[vale pine]

sin has their aoe decoupled from st, so CT is actaully allowed to be cracked while it remains with high single target and prio damage

its interessting design wise

sin design decisions often feel to me like the dev asked how to make the spec op

[tribal blade]

yeah they for sure got an incredibly good rework

[clever delta]

i did play sub yetserday but forgot the small things

[vale pine]

not saying thats their intention, but like... looking at tfd

[alpine wraith]

i mean look at subterfuge

[vale pine]

sub design decisions feel like they are there to make things hard to understand

[alpine wraith]

it reads fuck sub

but written differently

[vale pine]

its weird that it did not see a change for sub

[lilac stag]

My theory is they tried to make the easiest of the three spec to play the most attractive to non-rogues without realizing multi-dot specs from melee aren’t exactly fun for most

[sly shore]

i would like to add that assa talents are just as not-obvious as sub rogues

[vale pine]

haha thats true

[sly shore]

watching psybear try and work out what talents are good

and what they do

makes you understand how over-complicated the class is

[lilac stag]

yup

[hazy breach]

Fwiw assa does not have high st

[sly shore]

this was what he settled on

his blind run

of what talents are good

as a starter

[vale pine]

the talent trade off is higher now, but funnel allows you to make single target deficits often irrelevant

i am not saiyng always

[hazy breach]

Even if you talent full st

[alpine wraith]

assa st on bosses gets a lot of help by 1 extra target

doesnt it

[lilac stag]

assa full ST is mid

[clever delta]

the trueth about state of sub is that they simply dont care at blizzard

[sly shore]

the reason assa is high boss damage in raid rn is because that's all it can do

gl swapping targets

[bleak night]

deathstalker

[vale pine]

haha true

[sly shore]

a spec hitting boss 99% of the time

[vale pine]

deathstalker is rly well designed

[sly shore]

is gonna do more than a spec hitting boss 80% of the time

[vale pine]

[clever delta]

i parsed 98 on rikt yetserday even after playing half fight withnout mark 😄

[hazy breach]

High on boss damage on mugzee because you never go into jails as youre useless there

As an example

[lilac stag]

Let me just funnel bombs into boss during execute on OAB.

[vale pine]

you also have execute

which is quite good on mug

[clever delta]

i was chillinh in cages on prog 😄

[lilac stag]

not so much anymore

[bleak night]

execute definitely a very strong tool to have

[dusk stone]

s1 df so far is the only one i found where we're ahead on most or basically competitive with sin on some keys

the rest so far are like 30% gaps from napkin math

[full bobcat]

how we feeling about the incoming buff?

[dusk stone]

generally good

[lilac stag]

Good for raid. Meh for m+

[proper latch]

You don't go into jails as assa on Mug?

[lilac stag]

gets you out of assa prison in raid

No.

You caustic splatter both adds from outside

[dusk stone]

sub needs an order of magnitude for that buff to work on some keys lol

[proper latch]

Playing sub in 16 Cinderbrew felt like griefing

[dusk stone]

you're 100% right this is just a noone plays it so it really isn't designed well kind of ordeal

still some hope for better logs with an actual team comp dedicated to sub i guess you might get the rogue differential to 15%

[alpine wraith]

yea problem is if you make a sub omegacomp

it is hard to align

like prot warr/brew tank or druid then etc etc

you can get that 15% or a bit more but idk

m+ is just not balanced

[haughty rose]

damn we aren't even terrible in cinderbrew

[cloud rover]

Bro you have Points

switch to DMG

Top left

[vale pine]

the buff is good

more damage is more damage, we can't complain even if it still means sub is probably not the best of the 3 rogue specs

[hollow spear]

Doesn't have to be

[haughty rose]

hmm how?

[hollow spear]

It just has to not feel like you're griefing if you're playing sub

[cloud rover]

Thats odd, but mb then

but points still say nothing about dps

it just says people played higher keys with this spec

[haughty rose]

yeah but

[vale pine]

we are fine to be releavnt ^^

[haughty rose]

that at least says something tho no?

[vale pine]

and the ~4% buff should help

[haughty rose]

i can check damage in the rankings tab but i dont really know how to make only specs show up. right now it shows players

[cloud rover]

It doesnt say something about performance , jsut playrate ^^

[hollow spear]

The way sub is currently setup, it's almost I'm possible to get a tuning balance with raid and m+

[cloud rover]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/43/?metric=dps&boss=12661&class=Rogue Could do this

if you want to compare rogue specs

[haughty rose]

and i see a russian sub rogue being top 4 lmao

[cloud rover]

Thats 107

no?

[haughty rose]

i mean overall m+ dps not just cinderbrew

[hollow spear]

With our current talent setup, we'd probably be op if they made us a top 3 spec in raid

[lilac stag]

Frost Mage isn’t bad, just the dmg profile in raid isn’t exactly great. Looks like ass on logs though.

[cloud rover]

Thats just all star points

He gets the best points, because no one else plays it

[lilac stag]

you’re not going to be meta at all parts of pve

Relevant is good

[lilac stag]

abused and awful. Bad

[haughty rose]

okok i see

[hollow spear]

It's not like we can't play 16s or so

[haughty rose]

ok but is there a way to show overall rankings per spec?

[lilac stag]

just an uphill battle in LFG

[hollow spear]

And it's always always been meta specs only in the top keys

[lilac stag]

find some bruhs and have fun

[hollow spear]

And lfg is cooked anyway haha

[lilac stag]

Or buy some friends.

Idc

[hollow spear]

Groups always invite arcane mages and 80%+ suck

[lilac stag]

boomies

Haha

[hollow spear]

Too hard to grasp for the average players I guess

[cloud rover]

https://www.archon.gg/wow/tier-list/dps-rankings/mythic-plus/10/all-dungeons/this-week That one would be the "closest"

[hollow spear]

Boomie I can't understand

It's not even hard

[lilac stag]

Meta chasers on a spec they can’t grasp that leads to awful defensive usage and interrupts

[cloud rover]

But i wouldnt tkae this too serious

[tribal blade]

it is just not possible to keep up as sub with it's current design in M+ unless it's a low target count key

you're bursting as hard as everyone else (or bursting less)

but doing WAY less during downtime

[hollow spear]

Won't be salvageable until a major talent rework

[haughty rose]

i never take any tier list serious. although the one from warcraft logs is alright

[tribal blade]

i shouldn't say not possible, there are players like kush who always make it work

i should say it's very hard

[vestal escarp]

A lot fail to grasp this, dmg profile of the spec is very unfriendly for the game mode

[hollow spear]

And there's many more specs who won't be able to push as high as others

[vestal escarp]

It just it what it is

[hollow spear]

Nature of the game

[tribal blade]

yeah it's super unfortunate

[lilac stag]

They’re also built way fucking different

[tribal blade]

i got tired of hearing "PROPHET WTF" during a pack with no cds up

[lilac stag]

They make HOF players look like lfr raiders

[tribal blade]

doing tank damage 🙂

[alpine wraith]

but look at my ruptures!

LOOK AT THEM

[tribal blade]

WAY different yeah

[hollow spear]

Idk, ppl like kush just make it look so easy

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is like the diff between amateur pro and olympic lvl

[alpine wraith]

there is a higher diff between pro->olympic

than no exp->amateur->pro

[hollow spear]

They're debating cd usage while dodging a bullet hell

[lilac stag]

It’s like pikaboo in pvp. They see wha happening before it happens

[alpine wraith]

kush is one of those players that was calmly talking while on KJ last phase

[hollow spear]

My monkey brain would have probably krangled my entire rotation without thinking and talking

[tribal blade]

yeah you watch players like pikaboo or kush and they make it look SO easy

[alpine wraith]

meanwhile i was 200 bpm

[tribal blade]

until you try doing what they do and get nowhere close haha

[alpine wraith]

havint to triangulate the crystal

and call safe zones

[tribal blade]

one of my favorite kush moments was when he failed... i think it was 16 or 17 grim batol

on the last boss at the last second because naohw died

https://youtu.be/J4ZYCfur-vc?si=2twyfqdH1fQqm3Oa&t=1995

watch him slide down in his chair

classic

[alpine wraith]

ehehe

[tribal blade]

i think that was gonna be the world first 17 GB

[bleak night]

it should have been

apparently

[tribal blade]

btw why did kush and them go to method

was there some sort of drama or they just want a change of scenery

[alpine wraith]

he has more friends there

[tribal blade]

ahhh i see

[limpid sage]

Wish we could see the dmg statistic for M+

But then we’d prob get picked even less

[tribal blade]

not sure if this anywhere close to being accurate

or how they gather this info

but you can see on average sub is far behind other specs

[bleak night]

losing to aug goes so hard

[tribal blade]

on the full list there's a few specs losing to sub

like frost mage, fury warr, spriest and surv

[alpine wraith]

holy priest also loses to sub

[tribal blade]

LOL

sub's max timed key is an 18

frost mage has a 20 done

fury has a 20

[alpine wraith]

loved but not enough to grief people

[limpid sage]

idk either because if you go click on them individually they're off by like +200k often

[tribal blade]

yeah i can imagine it's doing weird thing to compile this data

i'm not a smart person so i can't look into it heehee

[tribal blade]

i've done a few keys with holy priests, they do pretty high hps

the big issue is you feel way more scared with them because you're not getting shielded for your entire hp bar

but a lot of other healers are like that right now

the tank i run with refuses to have rshams heal him lol

[raw rover]

hey guys! noob question: is there ever a time where you will use Kidney Shot instead of Cheap Shot while stealthed? i want to know if i need separate hotkeys for them or not 😄

[short radish]

yeah in pvp

do you plan on pvping?

[raw rover]

yes. i want to do everything on this rogue i'm learning

so i need to set good hotkeys from the start and build muscle memory

[short radish]

then have them on separate binds

[raw rover]

ok got it

thanks

[short radish]

np

because in pvp

kidney lasts longer than CS

[raw rover]

yea i figured. but i have you guys to give me solid information

so might as well ask

[short radish]

and theres times where you might have to KS in dance

in pve though you shouldnt bother

stun duration is a bit whatever

and its a waste of damage

[hazy breach]

it does in pve too

8s vs 6s

[short radish]

yeah but you dont really care as much in pve

[bleak night]

imagine pressing cheap shot

[short radish]

about that extra 2 seconds

though i see how i was implying that it lasts longer only in pvp

[tribal blade]

kidney is kinda situationally busted in keys

the duration is so long

[hazy breach]

But ye i havent really used any cheap shots in a long time

[bleak night]

yeah its great in top pvp boss

[tribal blade]

very, very good

[short radish]

also pressing KS in keys while in dance is cringe

i'd rather wipe than have to press that

[hazy breach]

Stunning in general is kinda cringe while in dance

[tribal blade]

oh yeah nah never press kidney in dance in pve

just cheap for 6 secs

[hazy breach]

Outside of dance its great though

[short radish]

yeah

[tribal blade]

ML 2nd boss

[short radish]

i've had to play pvp in keys sometimes

[tribal blade]

you can really help your ranged

[short radish]

dance into cs -> cs

[hazy breach]

ToP archer pack, cheap one > kidney one on pull

[short radish]

absolutely cringe behaviour

[hazy breach]

Bros stunned for ages

[short radish]

but had to do it

[bleak night]

yeah i do press kidney here

but thats mainly because my ranged will bitch in vc the entire time if i dont

[tribal blade]

yeah you can be the mvp on that boss

crippling poison+kidneys for the boys

[hazy breach]

Crippling only, let ranged suffer

No solace for the moonkins

[short radish]

100%

if we dont get to play the game

[tribal blade]

agreed fuck boomies

[short radish]

they dont get to play the game

[upbeat cradle]

I wish we'd get a tank spec like in SoD, maybe i'd get picked in keys then

[tribal blade]

how is boomy magically an insanely good key spec every single season

[bleak night]

starfall

[short radish]

good utility

starfall isnt capped is it

[hazy breach]

minus 1:30 cuz chicken is pig
-Famous philosopher zerocool

[short radish]

also vers buff is nice

[tribal blade]

i think before something about spreading sunfire or something

but they made that easier i hear

[short radish]

also probably sandbagging sims

[bleak night]

sunfire just hits everything

[upbeat cradle]

Probably same reason unholy dk are picked, DoTs on big packs

No cap

[bleak night]

you spread moonfire while pack is being gathered, press sunfire once, then start spamming starfall

[upbeat cradle]

That's too much for my brain

[tribal blade]

with udk it's just tuning

but boomy always a top pick for keys every season recently without fail

[warm stratus]

udk is way more degen than moonkin rn

well so is mage

[tribal blade]

haha yeah mage is the class most played for "i want to play something that will guaranteed be a meta spec"

[warm stratus]

good grpbuffs mostly get you into keys which is why they should delete them again (for the third? time I believe)

[tribal blade]

i think right now feral outperforms boomy

[warm stratus]

shouldnt say mage, it‘s 90% of the time fire mage that‘s meta

[tribal blade]

maybe

[alpine wraith]

arcane is more useful rn

just because of how the other top specs work kinda

[bleak night]

feral definitely pumps

but its melee so gg

[tribal blade]

arcane does the most ethical damage in keys atm

[alpine wraith]

a funny one that people are discovering is arcane uhdk and aug again

[tribal blade]

it's super ethical

[alpine wraith]

because of the 45 secs and 1:30 min cd timers

[warm stratus]

yeah for the forst time and barely, fire can fill the same niche as arcane just arcane for once is better tuned

[alpine wraith]

that work with both

and aoe/st funnel etc

[leaden prairie]

i played with a feral yesterday

spec kinda cool

[alpine wraith]

i like feral

[leaden prairie]

insane burst

[alpine wraith]

it does dmg with dots

[tribal blade]

was it zimbita

[leaden prairie]

no

[tribal blade]

ah ok

[leaden prairie]

murtaz

[alpine wraith]

but also with bites

[tribal blade]

don't know that one

[leaden prairie]

we were doing the melee comp

[alpine wraith]

then they have convoke

brrrr

[leaden prairie]

but with brew tank

i prefer this one to the one wox is playing

[tribal blade]

dude phys comp is cracked

it's so good

[leaden prairie]

you get more buffs

[bleak night]

convoke into release spirit

feral opener

[alpine wraith]

you first put some rakes

[tribal blade]

i ran a few phys comp keys and we fucking destroyed the keys

[alpine wraith]

to get more free bites

[leaden prairie]

ye lol

we almost timed 20 priory

[tribal blade]

the dmg is bananas

oh that's a huge key

next time you ahve it

[leaden prairie]

there is only 5 20 priory timed ye

and its all meta comp

we just went in full random no voice press w

we wiped on last pack before last boss

[tribal blade]

yeah boomy and dk utility is so good in priory

[alpine wraith]

is that the tighest key or

[leaden prairie]

and we honestly had almost the timer

[limpid sage]

how much?

[tribal blade]

oh that's tragic

[leaden prairie]

its one of the hard one

[limpid sage]

been considering gearing feral

[alpine wraith]

feral convoke is a bit rng

[leaden prairie]

we would have depleted on timer prolly cause of 4 deaths

but like

[alpine wraith]

but you can do 30m pulls

[leaden prairie]

with melee comp idk

it felt free af

we are just pressing w going faster

[alpine wraith]

it does good dmg tho anyway

[limpid sage]

didn't they make it way less rng though?

I feel like they did at some point

[alpine wraith]

depends

[tribal blade]

before turbo boost i was hard struggling trying to time a 16 cinder, and then i got into a phys comp group and we smashed the key, went into last boss room with 9 mins left

[alpine wraith]

it is less important on the grand scheme

[tribal blade]

was crazy

[alpine wraith]

but getting more bites/feral frenzies

[leaden prairie]

well turbo bosst is like

[alpine wraith]

is very impactful

[leaden prairie]

+1 key level

priolly +2 at lower levels

[alpine wraith]

belt might be a bit more

but not crazy

[worn ivy]

Do they still play ho or kir ?

[leaden prairie]

also warrior and resto sham got buffed btw

melee comp go brrr

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna be real, it feels kind of annoying them spacing out this power gain like this

[leaden prairie]

ye

its weird

[tribal blade]

because it just keeps you on the M+ hamster wheel longer

[leaden prairie]

you kinda do all your work over again

[alpine wraith]

very annoying for sure

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

[alpine wraith]

because in 2 weeks you get greater corru

[leaden prairie]

like i was happy to get all 18s done last week

and then

[alpine wraith]

then another week belt

[leaden prairie]

you go into the next week

and 18s are just 17s now

[alpine wraith]

then belt increases ilvl like 5 weeks

[tribal blade]

lol yeah now onto 19s and 20s

[alpine wraith]

in a row

[leaden prairie]

and you do it all again

its like you gain io so its cool

but you also arent really doing harder keys

[alpine wraith]

neverending push

[worn ivy]

Its booring playing without team

[leaden prairie]

you just got more damage for 0 reason

[worn ivy]

I dont see any point pugging

[alpine wraith]

also the extra stamina is very impactful

[worn ivy]

Its more fun in voice

[leaden prairie]

idk

[alpine wraith]

we are at the time you can feint and stay melee on gally

[leaden prairie]

i like pugging

i just blast music

[alpine wraith]

and still get to like 30%

[leaden prairie]

and press buttons

its fun

[worn ivy]

You call stops kicks etc.

[tribal blade]

i perform better while not in voice, i think less distraction

[alpine wraith]

he just uses the power of vibe

[leaden prairie]

same lol

[tribal blade]

harder to focus with people chatting nonstop

[alpine wraith]

understandable

[leaden prairie]

bro idk

no voice keys

are such a vibe

[tribal blade]

it's a vibe sometimes

[round latch]

same

[tribal blade]

lol yes

[leaden prairie]

i mean its like a league game

[round latch]

i even mute mics on rated arenas

[leaden prairie]

no one goes full voice in league either

[round latch]

ppl say stupid sht all the time

[alpine wraith]

the classic link route talk for 10 min

[leaden prairie]

you are just chilling

!

[tribal blade]

BUT then you wipe to something because nobody knew what to do, when being in voice would ahve been an easy fix

[alpine wraith]

then deplete on first pull

at least now you can go again way easier

[worn ivy]

No voice is ok unless your doing #1 keys

[tribal blade]

some of the hardest keys i've timed have just been join the group>nobody says anything>ready check>throw in key>time

i timed a title range throne during S3 DF that way

[leaden prairie]

idk i think you can go quite far without voice lol

[tribal blade]

yeah if everyone knows what they're doing

and the route

and with the ping system now

you can actually be fine

also you can just type single words sometimes

"slow"

[digital aspen]

also if you ve played with the same group for a while, even with no voice, the reps are there

[tribal blade]

with people who pug all their keys, they've seen these keys done every way possible

so usually people are quite good about adapting to w/e happens

(if they're good players)

[worn ivy]

Bro right now on 19 keys you tanking casts on face you dont need prefect kicks stops shanigens back in days 1 cast miss kick or failed stop keys gone.

[digital aspen]

well, it depends on the cast

and most of them you still have to prefeint

[worn ivy]

Less punishing

[leaden prairie]

ye game is so easy now

cba

make game hard again !

[alpine wraith]

nah make it cooler

everyone needs 0,3 secs gcd

lets see who can outbutton the buttons

[worn ivy]

As a rogue you had to control 2 targets while
Killing prio target

Gouge - maggot / kick lasher / kill bloodswarmer

Go solo cages in tol dagor

Snap the mobs to tank with tricks

Do the skip with riposte

[alpine wraith]

lashga having some ptsd now

[worn ivy]

Was more fun tbh

Now u only doing dps

Off kidney - kick

Thats it zugzug only

Where is control

Peope are not even tracking dr’s

They dont even know how dr works i see people using cap totem first global

Silence first global

Fear first gloval

My eyes

[tribal blade]

the argument is you make the game like that again and there's only a handful of specs that can realistically deal with all that on a high key level

and they wanted to make M+ less oppressive in general

[alpine wraith]

maybe we are all mages in disguise

using poly to interrupt

[tribal blade]

at least that's blizz's rationale iirc

[alpine wraith]

tbh i had fun in m+

only in legion

because you could pull silly

and kill everything

no brain just zug

[tribal blade]

dude some of the keys in past seasons have been wild in terms of mechanics

like doing a key like uldaman

holy shit

the amount of awareness you needed

you are right, keys aren't hard like that anymore

[worn ivy]

It was more satisfying for me
To control stuff in m+ than a doing dps

Where is explosives ?

Where is boalstring management

Where is necrotic management

[leaden prairie]

ok bro

you are absolutely cooked

[tribal blade]

there's 0 shot i'm going back to those affixes haha

bolstering and sanguine the stuff of nightmares

[worn ivy]

Why because you need to so different stuff

Right now everypull is same

[tribal blade]

yeah they definitely required you to play very differently

[worn ivy]

So is that bad ?

[leaden prairie]

ye you just didnt play

during the bad weeks

very fun indeed

loved the game back then

[alpine wraith]

you forgot some of the more cursed ones

[tribal blade]

the most miserable part for me as someone who only ever just made title and never went that high above cutoff

[alpine wraith]

like necrotic or overflowing

literally deleting classes from that week

[tribal blade]

is you had to play the hard weeks if you were in my bracket

because you had to play every single week to make cutoff

it was truly miserable

[lilac stag]

actively avoiding playing weeks then pushing all in 1-2 weeks every three months. PEAK GAMEPLAY. smh my head

[alpine wraith]

big vacation time

[tribal blade]

necrotic was so bad 😦

[lilac stag]

fucking rose tinted glasses

[alpine wraith]

overflowing could be worse depending on heal or tank

[worn ivy]

I dont know some people like pepsi some people like coke. What im trying to say is i dont like doing same thing every week

[alpine wraith]

whoops i crit holy shock

now you have a healing absorb

of 2x you life

then you get hit by a mechanic and just die

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-rosé-blackpink-bruno-mars-gif-1539050173426684783

[dry plank]

my god should we be happy about 5% buff, i have feeling that spec forgotten and nothing will happened in nearest future
every othere spec were attempt to tune here and there and only we got flat buff after which usually nerf sectech and set

[alpine wraith]

spec will be better not much to say

[tribal blade]

i see we're getting ahead of dooming for the future 😉

[lilac stag]

Pug 10s with undergeared people and no io. There’s your difference for the week.

[alpine wraith]

yea man come do some gilded crest farm

only time i have had fun in m+

in years

[lilac stag]

Can’t just enjoy simple things here

[alpine wraith]

finally doing 5m in some keys

[tribal blade]

dooOOOOOMMMM

[alpine wraith]

just pulled whole first room of meadery into boss

[dry plank]

I saw picture of buffs in guild discord and went into artical with holding my breath, and then get sooooooooooooo heavy disappointment, dunno what I expect to see

[alpine wraith]

brrr

[lilac stag]

brrrrrrrr

[dry plank]

10%? i think any flat buff would just destroy my mood

[lilac stag]

[tribal blade]

5% is not bad

[alpine wraith]

well tbh the only thing they can buff for m+ would be something related to rupture

like making replicating better

[worn ivy]

I timed some 18’s as sub before turbo boost and 1 of my guildie just /w me and asked how much gilded crest and valor i got from thay key. “Vision diff”

[alpine wraith]

or tornado

but uh

[lilac stag]

I was expecting 2% lol

[alpine wraith]

i though 4% would be it

and i was kinda right if you uses stat embellish and other things

instead of flat dmg

it is around 4.x%

wonder how much better void ritual becomes

[night sparrow]

Hey guys about the First Dance macro thing, we need vanish to be available ? Or do u just press the macro and BOOM TFD is starting the 6s timer ?

[alpine wraith]

not by much i guess

yes you need vanish to be up

you also need to hit a mob asap

[night sparrow]

alright would have been broken as hell haha

[alpine wraith]

after vanishing

[night sparrow]

okay thx ❤️

[alpine wraith]

so do something like press macro rupture or evis or whatever

can even press macro into flag

[keen yew]

It doesn't work by simply stealthing ig ? (like betweens pull that are linked a bit too fast)

[alpine wraith]

but not recommended

[night sparrow]

alright thank you

[alpine wraith]

you use the vanish to get tfd if you dont have tfd

[night sparrow]

so weird how this talent is coded tho lmao

[alpine wraith]

if you stealthed you might as well stay out of combat to get tfd

btw it wont work on bosses

at all

[worn ivy]

So you dont wanna deal with this anymore ? @alpine wraith https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/HyperColorfulWitchPraiseIt-aW1S-ilB2x9ZT07N

[alpine wraith]

i never dealth with any of that

just wekkly w

[hidden spade]

Do we run Tfd in m+ even if we don’t utilise the bugs?

[alpine wraith]

recieve loot

why would you not run tfd

are you ok?

need help we can talk

[paper rock]

I mean.. just do 10s. It's a different affix every week down there

[alpine wraith]

you also get diff affixes from players

[leaden prairie]

we litteraly do these kind of stuffs all the time in m+ rn

[alpine wraith]

sometimes you get the feeder

[leaden prairie]

and its the cringiest shit

ever

every meld skip

is this

and its bad

no one enjoy doing this shit lol

[alpine wraith]

we could make a montage of failed skips

[leaden prairie]

does this require mega skill or what

[alpine wraith]

in mechagon and flood

[leaden prairie]

you just pulled mobs

evasion

cc

click thing

tehn vanish

[tribal blade]

this entire season is just skipping everything, i hate it

[leaden prairie]

its jusrt boring

[alpine wraith]

tbh you feel special when you do that

like in some game speedrun

[leaden prairie]

i dont

[alpine wraith]

hitting the frame perfect jump

[leaden prairie]

i feel like i wasted 30s of dps

[alpine wraith]

+50 dino coins

[leaden prairie]

i would rather be dpsing

having fun

that doing silly fucking skips

that are all more cringe than the other

[alpine wraith]

just think you are gaining group dps

instead of personal dps

party player big boi

run ocarina

[leaden prairie]

ye rather cut my balls

[alpine wraith]

TU TUT UT TUUT TURRU TU

[leaden prairie]

than give dps to my group

[worn ivy]

Ahaha

Truee

[tribal blade]

i also enjoy each of these skips has the chance to brick the key

if they fail

so much fun

[glacial orbit]

is 5% really that big to close the gap between sub and the other rogue specs in raid ?

[alpine wraith]

in raid we will be a bit closer

maybe some highroller gets there

[glacial orbit]

because in the dmg statistics sub is bottom, outlaw is middle and sin is top

[alpine wraith]

we just need more people to play the specs

[glacial orbit]

and the numbers are way bigger than a 5% difference

[worn ivy]

Look this one 😂😂😂😂😂 https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/VivaciousExquisitePeanutBatChest

[alpine wraith]

no one has hit peak variance yet as sub

[worn ivy]

Moadmoad tanking

Ahhahahaha

[leaden prairie]

also nowadays @worn ivy that clip you would just have a dh fear sigil, click then meld

[alpine wraith]

we can peak at around 3.1 before buffs

and highest sprocket is 2.8

so just unlucky mfers playing the spec

[worn ivy]

Bro ive so many funnt clips its insane

[glacial orbit]

hmm

i see

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is still like 600-700k less dps than mm

but it is something

[leaden prairie]

me when i dplete the 10th floodgate

on bubble skip

[alpine wraith]

we also can get a lil external that is a secret

[leaden prairie]

[alpine wraith]

only 10

that is rookie numbers

[leaden prairie]

also @worn ivy thats so funny you mention that clip

[tribal blade]

bro the bubble skip is infuriating

[leaden prairie]

cause we litteraly are doing the exact same shit

in flood

[tribal blade]

oh shit we did it, oh look bubbles is casting

and we'

[leaden prairie]

with the thing to click after big momma

[tribal blade]

re all dead

gg

[leaden prairie]

and its trash bro i hate it

no one wanna do this shit

you brick keys on the most random shit

[alpine wraith]

you have to do it fast or he casts or what

[tribal blade]

workshop skips too

skipping before last boss

double hobgoblin skip

[worn ivy]

True

[tribal blade]

every ML skip

[worn ivy]

https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/RudeFurtiveSaladFunRun

😀😀😀😀😆😆😆😆

[leaden prairie]

no you either hvae tank pull the pack and go far then you click then he melds, or you do the "gamer" way that has about a 90% chance of failling, which is rp walking to the side to click the box, withpout body pulling the pack, which is legit impossible

one centimeter to the right you puill pack

[alpine wraith]

and of course he has stealth detection

remember when shroud was useful

[leaden prairie]

doesnt matter cause when you press you get out of stealth anyway

but ye

[tribal blade]

yeah that flood skip bricked a lot of floods early in the season

people trying to click the box

i wouldn't be surprised if blizz did something about skips after this season

because i have never seen a season with this many degen skips before

like how is pulling ML like this a thing

[lime stump]

Heyy guyys.. what are the gems I should put in the sockets of my armor for subtlety..?

[alpine wraith]

funny you say that because in bfa it was the other way around XD

you pullod all peacekeepers

[tribal blade]

oh yeah haha

[alpine wraith]

then skipped all the dungeon

i detected a filter!

[tribal blade]

i think they wanted to avoid that, but they fucked up and made all the trash at the start a waste of time

[warm goblet]

Ye got censored

[tribal blade]

so they made the exact opposite problem

[warm goblet]

Bot doesnt like british people

[alpine wraith]

peacekeepers are still quite decent count

BUT they added 2 aids things

so you just skip them

[worn ivy]

https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/FairPlacidDragonflyTheTarFu this is after they changed tricks

[alpine wraith]

like before you could pull like 7 or 8

and do fine

now it is unplayable

[worn ivy]

https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/NaiveDependableCaribouBleedPurple PTR 😀😀😀😀

[alpine wraith]

so you just skip every single one of them

fuck them

[warm goblet]

Peacekeepers are horrendous count though

[tribal blade]

yeah you can do 0 peacekeeper routes now

[alpine wraith]

not really if you could pull 7 or 8 like before

they did nothing really

[warm goblet]

Well they have changed the mob as you said

[alpine wraith]

but now they vomit 4 diff aoes

[warm goblet]

But skips are so important because every pack is lieutenant type of stuff

And most of them are inefficient

(Looking at you hopgoblins)

If you at least had the choice of losing some time for decent count, would be alright

[tribal blade]

yeah they could simply increase their count or something else to make them more efficient to do

[alpine wraith]

well they used to be 4+2

from jockeys

but they fixed that

[wicked urchin]

i’m so stoned that i don’t have to feel like i’m griefing raid anymore (i’m drunk)

i’ve been so stubborn about not playing ass this season

[limpid sage]

yo why is cyrce's still simming higher than hc jastor's for me

can it not

[alpine wraith]

it sims higher than anything for me

mastery life

[opal nest]

sub back with buff? please get me off assassin

[sacred yarrow]

you can be sub anytime, the prison is a lie 👀

[tribal blade]

i heard cyrce's might be overperforming in sims

this is like second-third hand info though so dunno if it's true

[severe prism]

a crafted ring simmed higher for me, but hero jastor was worse as well

also a lot or ppl are playing with high haste, and it sucks having jastor proc haste

[shell bramble]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

get wrecked

[alpine wraith]

circe is just a ball of stats

that scales with mastery

it can get beaten

[lilac stag]

Crit and Vers stonks 📈

also helps

[alpine wraith]

wish i had that one

i have mechanocore but it is a bit behind pacemaker

[lilac stag]

mythic pacemaker sims higher

[alpine wraith]

ye

[clever delta]

i cant get pacemaker simming good

[alpine wraith]

get tons of mastery/vers

crit becomes gud

[lilac stag]

yeah crit is my top stat atm

[clever delta]

its literary magnet/goong/keygrinder for me on sub 5min and than kezan above 5

[alpine wraith]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NcJbczazTrbaLmPEuzZiq

funny thing is crafted engi helmet is not that much a loss even to go full on mastery

[clever delta]

why you simming so low

scary

[lilac stag]

he insists on going full tilt mastery

[clever delta]

bro im running this raid vers haste boost

and the Boe ones are not even upgrade 😄

[lilac stag]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kbdgkZkvGKr5MRES9SFGyF

sorry it was vers still ahead

so our mastery and crit are flipped

[alpine wraith]

vers becomes better if you run more dmg things yea

[clever delta]

imagine runing circlet

[lilac stag]

what dmg things am I running?

[alpine wraith]

double embellish corruption and enchants on weps

maybe that is also why radiance kinda sims same as dephts for me

[lilac stag]

gamabe radiant aint the way

[alpine wraith]

more skill dmg

just proc

kekw

but i only run 1 tbh

cba

[lilac stag]

VR aint the way

[clever delta]

why you running guhsiong wounds 😄

[lilac stag]

it's the way

[clever delta]

man imagine having two rik daggers

[lilac stag]

very consistent. not doing any m+

[clever delta]

we still did not drop single dagger from raid

[lilac stag]

it was 1.8% of my dmg on oab kill

[clever delta]

thats a lot

[lilac stag]

so as a lesser, i'll take it

[native zodiac]

I got like 5

[clever delta]

fucke

r

thatas where all my daggers went than 😄

[lilac stag]

[native zodiac]

My sub rogue is disgusting geared tbh

Also got a heavy vers mastery ring from oab

[lilac stag]

Sapp what is your ST at?

[clever delta]

i got the critVers one

same as your

i just hate my trinket option

[lilac stag]

jastors on my setup is like .1

[alpine wraith]

yea ahaha double depths is like 3k dps

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7p51u2anVwj8gBN6nYnFTR

[clever delta]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3xuUwpADAoJKqKkoWPwcCM

for me double depths is like 4,5k dps gain over double radiant

so radiant better

for any target swap or aoe

[lilac stag]

Pacemaker is .3 and goon is .7

[clever delta]

pacemaker is no good for me i think i maybe have too much crit for it

[alpine wraith]

i may go back to double radiance

but idk

1 1 seems a good balance

[lilac stag]

We start mugz Tuesday. Just going to run sub. I’ll be cage duty anyways

[clever delta]

i was too as sin

its not that bad

you play less mechanics like that 😄

[lilac stag]

Haha fair

[clever delta]

the frost shoe is the only annoying part of fight really

[lilac stag]

We had 84 pulls on OAB. That was probably one of our best bosses

[clever delta]

thats good

[tribal blade]

i spend way more hours in keys than raid, so double radiance for me

[lilac stag]

Seek help

[clever delta]

but i would argue that assa better on progg as all dmg which matter is in last phase and that excecute

[lilac stag]

[twilit phoenix]

84 is rlly good

[lilac stag]

It probably is, my mental gonna crack. If it’s close I’ll run sub for a break. I’m guessing 3-4 days for mugz

[tribal blade]

to be fair that's post nerf, but yeah it's good

[lilac stag]

assa in raid is just so oof

[clever delta]

its cosy in raid

[lilac stag]

[clever delta]

you chillinh

[native zodiac]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oG8Ab9SXMGcdyeopPvf1qW

[lilac stag]

I hit zombie mode since we raid later in the evening for me

[twilit phoenix]

CONGRATULATIONS (ansurek was harder last week) on ANSUREK MYTHIC (it was harder last weeks clear. I know you've been working really hard (Ansurek used to be harder) at it, and I'm happy that you've (you killed a nerfed final boss) achieved your goal of completion. I know your journey through (Ansurek used to do more blades) the content was filled with ups and downs, but you and (Ansurek used to be harder) your group stuck (Ansurek used to be harder) together through them all, and you were rewarded for your patience and (Ansurek used to be harder) tenacity. Congratulations (Ansurek used to be so much harder) once again, and here's to more success in your future (Ansurek used to be harder) endeavors!!!

[clever delta]

not bad 😄

i did not see that vers mastery belt either

hands was taken by DH yesterday

[tribal blade]

i mean bandit got hit with HUGE nerfs

[native zodiac]

i got giga funneled tbh

[tribal blade]

really, really big nerfs

[native zodiac]

i also have a mythic kezan and pacemaker lmao

[twilit phoenix]

Ik ik

I just wanted to send that pasta

[tribal blade]

but yeah i get that 😉

[clever delta]

yeah i have mythic kezan too

i had pacemaker in vault twice but had to pass both times due progress needs

[lilac stag]

kezan seems like a week 1 prog next season trinket at this point

[clever delta]

yeah

4sure

[native zodiac]

prob yeah

this jastor ring might last a while aswell if assa is meta

i guess it depends a bit on what itemlvl jump theyll do

[lilac stag]

I’d be happy if we don’t get tuned around a trinket again

[clever delta]

smile

[native zodiac]

[clever delta]

i wonder if we get some touchups in talent section too

but i dont think they will spend any resouscres on this spec

[lost kite]

Guys how big is this 5% buff for sub realistically going to do sin will still be top spec?

[lilac stag]

Just small stuff like CDR tweak

Raid it’ll be close

M+ outlaw or assa

[alpine wraith]

sin will still be very good

but sub can highroll sometimes higher not as much as sin tho

[lilac stag]

Kill times just lower assa’s bread and butter execute

[lost kite]

Damn I wanted to bring the sub out again

[alpine wraith]

might beat assa on speedkills

[lilac stag]

We’ll meet in the middle of mediocrity melee

[alpine wraith]

if some bosses are like 3:50 or so

that is the assa AYAYA time

[lilac stag]

That’s TFD time

[twilit phoenix]

[clever delta]

even 4:10 is assa bad tiume

[alpine wraith]

tfd sims more than wm for 6 mins ehehe

big mastery

[clever delta]

no way

[alpine wraith]

well the dps i would win i lose by having worse gear

for st

[crystal bone]

swapping to sub tech in some dungeons actually viable now

in 18's

i actually couldn't survive wax boss as sin, but can as sub

[alpine wraith]

sub has some good bosses

[crystal bone]

in an 18

[alpine wraith]

in theory assa can spam feint more than sub in downtimes

but you will do less dps

[native zodiac]

i didnt even realise tfd is this close in st wtf

literally -5k on 5mins for me

[alpine wraith]

i always run tfd now

[clever delta]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mG3T8FUiBs653TSm4WfV1M oh shit

it want me to run finality

by a lot

fucking hate managing finality ruptures 😄

[alpine wraith]

yea finality is good

you dont care about finality ruptures now

[native zodiac]

you dont you just ignore it

im literally not even tracking it

[clever delta]

fucking hell

propably will delete it form ui than

becasue it bother me 😄

oh shit

we find some gains

almost 2,7 gang

tokin

what the fuck is that corruption yoou are running

[alpine wraith]

he is running void ritual

likely he though same as us only st encount is sprocket anyway

[clever delta]

yeah but are you not suppose to run twiling than

[native zodiac]

honestly i came home late from work wed saw all the post about bugs

so i just went for something that works

so i just slapped that on

[clever delta]

sims do not support lesser right

[native zodiac]

sadly not

[clever delta]

or there is no option in top gear

[alpine wraith]

you have to use a gearset in advanced

they do support it

[clever delta]

yeah

[alpine wraith]

profileset."Head_Twilight_Devastation_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7912
profileset."Head_Twilight_Devastation_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7914

profileset."Head_Gushing_Wound_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7925
profileset."Head_Gushing_Wound_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7927

profileset."Head_Void_Ritual_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7931
profileset."Head_Void_Ritual_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7933

profileset."Head_Echoing_Void_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7915
profileset."Head_Echoing_Void_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7917

profileset."Head_Infinite_Stars_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7922
profileset."Head_Infinite_Stars_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7924

profileset."Head_Twisted_Appendage_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7928
profileset."Head_Twisted_Appendage_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7930

[clever delta]

so what do i run than

[alpine wraith]

or just use the enchant id

[clever delta]

its like

0,00 diffs

[alpine wraith]

yea we go stats

[native zodiac]

exactly

[alpine wraith]

it also gets marginally better with the buff

might also want to check if blessed grip is better than lens for you guys

if you dont run as much mastery on wep

[native zodiac]

meh i dont have a good cloak to replace my craft one

doubt it will be better for me

[clever delta]

neither

[alpine wraith]

unluck

[clever delta]

is this like perma stats

no proc

[alpine wraith]

it is the trigger

used to be how many people also had void ritual in your group

and you had a number there

to get more stats

but they took that out

[clever delta]

becasue i dont see anything else to pop up

[native zodiac]

the actual buff is called the end is coming

i think

[alpine wraith]

yea it is just a vestige

same as td having the zig zag fvx

when it is a cone now

[native zodiac]

this was our uptime on it on gally

[alpine wraith]

seems nice

[tribal blade]

i think it procs and then you gain stats over 20 secs

[alpine wraith]

yea it ramps

kinda works nice with sub it it procs just as you flag

or a bit before

[tribal blade]

seems really good in M+

[alpine wraith]

it is the normal one gives up to 1440 all stats

big rupture value

[clever delta]

i dont see it in details

[alpine wraith]

our only attack that scales with everything kekw

[tribal blade]

i think for all purpose this is the best enchant

considering there's only 1 pure ST fight in the raid anyways too

[alpine wraith]

it can also highroll

like getting just when you want

[tribal blade]

it sims really well for me as sin in dslice

[clever delta]

oh i found it its ramping buff

[alpine wraith]

the end is coming i think

[clever delta]

but man that will be rng as fuck

[alpine wraith]

it is called someone said

[clever delta]

ye

[alpine wraith]

not really uptime is decent

but can highroll

[tribal blade]

yeah it procs quite a bit

[native zodiac]

honestly the best enchant

[clever delta]

bro missing the key grinder

[tribal blade]

this is super minor, but you also gain vers

[clever delta]

thats something 😄

[tribal blade]

which means a little bit more DR

and every little bit counts

[native zodiac]

i miss this bike on my ret pala so often

he realy needs a new trinket

[clever delta]

fucking hell

but i dont have mythic anything else besuide kezan

[native zodiac]

doomed

[clever delta]

magnet dropped when i wasnt in raid 😄

goon went to soemone else and idk

its hard to press need on spec which you dont currently play

[fiery pewter]

I usually go with the "Oops I didn't mean to need that" when called out, a classic

[clever delta]

i had the pace in vault twice

but had to choose other items for progress

as i had kezan by that time

[native zodiac]

i kinda did something similar with the priory ring

[bright elk]

Is the magnet used on cd or when you max the stacks?

[native zodiac]

as i was playing assa then already

[clever delta]

I can't complain really they give me first hoc which dropped after progress even tho it's wasn't that good for me as for others only because I was unlucky with loot

[native zodiac]

what guild are you in again

[clever delta]

I'm with like super chill guild now

We mamaged HOF among last guilds 😄

TDF

[native zodiac]

ahh

crazy how many guilds made it into HoF

[clever delta]

Oh yeah

[hazy breach]

Doesnt matter, does the same damage per stack anyway

[clever delta]

We are kinda chilling as its new guild only 3 days with no splits or overtime

[alpine wraith]

you can use magnet move dmg from one phase to another

that is kinda cool

but the dmg is not spectacular

if it was inkpod it would be funny

[native zodiac]

ye no splits is the best life tbh

[alpine wraith]

would be cool if it had like 100 max stacks

instead of 30

i dont mind splits if you only do 1 or 2

just to try and curb some tier rng

first week

[clever delta]

I would not mine adding extra raid first two weeks for splits hc at all

[native zodiac]

its not realy the tier tbh

trinkets are the main reason for splits

[alpine wraith]

if you want trinkets etc

you need more than1 or 2

so there is that middle groun

no splits splits but focus on tier

[native zodiac]

i just rather play 1 character

[alpine wraith]

then degen we want big everything

i mean we got 11 pala etc tokens

vs 2 zenithg