subtlety

[tribal blade]

i recrafted all my gear for sin

full traitor now

oh and gally is dead hollllaaaa

[native zodiac]

Just make 2 gearsets

[keen dome]

helllll yeah!!!

congrats

[fallow nimbus]

Traitor! (don't look up my armory)

[tribal blade]

heehee

[fallow nimbus]

Halfway through my first assa dungeon i realized that my was weren't working at all

[cloud rover]

Gz!

Got the Mount?

[tribal blade]

nah unfortunately not

[keen dome]

rip

I will probably farm that mount in Midnight, I think. I want it more than birb

[cloud rover]

Its definitely a unique Mount

But i have to say

[keen dome]

I think it's bullshit you sit on top of it and not inside like Gally does though

[cloud rover]

The mount special is a bit a let down

[native zodiac]

After using it for a while i prefer the fyrakk one

[keen dome]

Should've been a two-seater where you sit inside the cockpit and someone else rides on top

[cloud rover]

Also no Character reaches the levers

that are "used" to steer

[bleak night]

every mount is controlled with your mind in this game anyway

[keen dome]

Yeah haha

[lilac stag]

gz!

[tribal blade]

ty 🙂

[lilac stag]

No one in their right mind is playing sub in here on anything prog related.

[bleak night]

[alpine wraith]

hey dont worry

just join a top 10 guild

then you can play sub for 1 week

then enjoy assa for 4 or 5 months

[upbeat cradle]

Guess i ll just buy ritual like everyone else then

[native zodiac]

"enjoy" assa, current assa makes me wanna commit crimes

[alpine wraith]

yea void ritual is good

[alpine wraith]

yea i was just doing a copy paste

getting ready

[native zodiac]

I played sub on gally prog

But that was also early

[alpine wraith]

yea i also played sub

but i was not in for the prog kill unlucky

only was in for oab

[native zodiac]

Rip

You got 2 rogues?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[native zodiac]

Rarity nowadays tbh

[wet lava]

When you secret tech a boss, and then the tank moved it (eg first boss cinder) does the sec tech miss? Or once it goes off it hits whoever yiu targeted

[lilac stag]

Those procs outside of CDs are huge dps gains!

[alpine wraith]

actually in the in between dances when you only have 1

you can just sit a bit

ahaha

[haughty mural]

gratzz

[lilac stag]

idk I just said fuck it. We GW gamers

[keen dome]

GW?

Great Western Gamers

[haughty mural]

GW in m+ ?

[keen dome]

the first train company eSports team

[haughty mural]

Hmmge

Oh wait we don’t play sub in m+

I almost forgot

[bleak night]

twilight dev gaming

beam go brr

[keen dome]

oooh gushing wounds

[sharp onyx]

echoing void is simbait right now, right? we going void ritual for all content?

[alpine wraith]

gw or td are more single target

but void ritual just works everywhere

[sharp onyx]

got it thanks

[lilac stag]

we don’t play m+

[keen dome]

Well, I do

[lilac stag]

they’re all such incredibly sm dps gains with the lessers it really doesn’t matter.

[keen dome]

But we all know I'm wrong

[merry agate]

Hello chat

obligatory "surely next week!"
🫂

[alpine wraith]

already told everyone they are buffing sub for my birthday

[keen dome]

Nice

[alpine wraith]

let's get drunk together when it does not happen

[merry agate]

Gapped by augmentation on boss dmg

What a time to be alive

[haughty rose]

bubbletea rogue buffs next week yes? yes?

[merry agate]

Our time will come brother 🙏

o̶u̶t̶l̶a̶w̶ and assa sisters just waiting to post this

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/124169701881282560/1110305168328765440/6an3o7.gif

[lilac stag]

Outlaw sitting below Aug too in some of the charts.

[merry agate]

True okay scratch that

[bleak night]

Aug giga

[lilac stag]

don’t worry. Blizzard is too focused on their war on add-ons to port wow to Xbox that they’ll never notice rogue.

[bleak night]

The addon stuff is going to be so funny

I can’t wait to see how terribly it goes

[leaden prairie]

what where

[lilac stag]

one of the lastest charts. Was maybe boss damage?

It was 2am and I’m old. Hahah

Can look for it again a bit later

[leaden prairie]

Ah ye

Sounds fake

[bleak night]

Do you really think someone would do that

Just go on the internet and lie

[lilac stag]

Congrats. Barely above.

[leaden prairie]

!!

Fake af

[lilac stag]

when I looked it was under

[leaden prairie]

look

fake af

[lilac stag]

Overall dmg to bosses

95th %

[leaden prairie]

ye

fake af stat

[lilac stag]

ok

[leaden prairie]

Overall boss damage is so useless cause

Some specs on some bosses don't even hit the bosses

Like on stix or rik or whatever

Stuffs like that idk

It's weird

[lilac stag]

You’re hitting the boss as outlaw

Not helping your argument

[leaden prairie]

That's true but !

Look man

95% is too low for outlaw

That's where all the noobs are at

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/simpson-gif-25340727

lasted longer than Sub and at least got a bug fix that worked

[leaden prairie]

I'm good

It's farm

I don't care if outlaw is good I farm as long as it's good in m+

And it's very good in m+ for once

So I'm happy

Happy face

Uwu

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[lilac stag]

Minus KS

[leaden prairie]

ye ..

They had to ruin it

Can't have too good things happen you know

[alpine wraith]

we have to make a shadowstep and KS montage

to send to reddit

[lilac stag]

trickster outlaws would be 🔥 if it was BR instead of KS

[leaden prairie]

ye..

[alpine wraith]

br is not allowed to do dmg

[leaden prairie]

or litteraly any other spell

[alpine wraith]

it did once

and never again

[leaden prairie]

It didn't really

Or when do you mean

[alpine wraith]

dont remember if it was legion

[leaden prairie]

If you mean S2 df it wasnt doing much

[alpine wraith]

or bfa

[leaden prairie]

Ah ok

I wasn't therr

[alpine wraith]

but legion was silly

it had things like cannon barrage

that were good in theory but

[lilac stag]

I really just don’t understand their design logic outside of a crackhead going through withdrawals and wanting to watch the world burn.

at least with 2 of the rogue specs

[alpine wraith]

what they did to sub and combat

has no name

also remember the poison that stacked and just increased dmg

XD

ago

[haughty mural]

Agonizing

Hated it with a passion

[alpine wraith]

idk if im glad or sad that i had to play sp that first season

everyone did

[leaden prairie]

i mean outside of ks i think outlaw is really fun design wise

[alpine wraith]

because it made poison bomb procs even more important

[leaden prairie]

It has some issues but

Can be overlooked

[haughty mural]

It made target swap so horrible

Like now with mark

[neon frigate]

Do you guys think we get buff next tuning?

[tulip gorge]

if KS gets fixed outlaw will be close to perfect

[lilac stag]

Yes but KS is a glaring fuck off ya wanker

[leaden prairie]

ye

It's weird right

That they would allow that to be a thing

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/veldot-is-back-car-wreck-driving-gif-17585039

Perfectly fine car. kS now focus.

[tulip gorge]

they probably find KS peak design

[leaden prairie]

They are ruining their own work

[alpine wraith]

i mean big KS times it was not as annoying

because you used it once every 2 mins

[leaden prairie]

I think outlaw is litteraly peaking

[alpine wraith]

not every 20 secs

[leaden prairie]

But it's unplayable cause of ks

Bit sad

[tulip gorge]

1. cool animation
2. makes you consider risk/reward

idk what else

[lilac stag]

They’re just dumb and tossing darts at a wall.

Congrats KS got the bullseye

[leaden prairie]

Risk reward is always hated tho

And they deleted it from every spec basically

Look at havoc

[tulip gorge]

yeah but devs usually love this sort of stuff in theory

[leaden prairie]

They removed the entire gamepplah of jumping around

[tulip gorge]

in practice it's awful

[lilac stag]

The animation that is nausea inducing? Yea very cool.

love my game play trying to cause motion sickness every 15 seconds.

[leaden prairie]

For monks I remember they had that talent that made them dash forward with tiger palm

And they removed it again

[alpine wraith]

going in the air with whirl punch

into a knockback

kekw

[leaden prairie]

Ye but at least that's like

Half a GCD animation lock

[alpine wraith]

you can also trascendance

in the air just in case

ks is full on fuck you

vaal flicker strike

[wicked urchin]

any tips for gally if we aren’t pulling boss to add platforms? or do i just cry

[lilac stag]

play assa?

so cry either way

[wicked urchin]

25% of the time the adds die fast enough that i don’t get enough cdr for second dance

okay fair

[bleak night]

send the tanks death threats

only reasonable solution

[lilac stag]

suffer through CE then send death threats

on reclears

dont fuck with the roster boss this close 😄

[bleak night]

fair

we lost probably our best player because of sprocket

whispered me complaining about ranged fucking up drills then left the next day

[alpine wraith]

the drillers

[hoary bloom]

the legendary from shadowlands or?

torghast

[wicked urchin]

i’m on it

[tribal blade]

bro this tier i have seen so much raid prog inted by the ranged

[lilac stag]

Range and Sprocket / OAB will show you who actually pays attention to

[tribal blade]

i think locken and bandit were the 2 biggest offenders

[wicked urchin]

i’ve gotten super comfy but target swapping and a lot of movement during cds is the bane of my existence

if only shadowstep on gally wasn’t still broken as shit

[alpine wraith]

you step on someone on gally

you'll get used to it

[tribal blade]

i stopped using step on gally once i landed on a spark and got stunned

[wicked urchin]

that’s what i’m doing post intermission

[tribal blade]

i started using a step macro for my prot warr

that worked a lot better

[native zodiac]

Dont even need step in gally realy besides running to adds and then you just step adds/teammate

[wicked urchin]

it’s just specifically the 2 min add set because gally is a mile away when they die

and then i mess something up which is a skill issue

[tribal blade]

mostly for when you run out of melee with the lines

[short radish]

having nameplates showing + vuhdo/cell where you can right click a frame to shadowstep to them

is very underrated

[lilac stag]

step ToT should work i'd imagine

[native zodiac]

Dont even need to shadowstep then, the hitbox is massive you can usually go out and still attack

[wicked urchin]

i ToT & evasion then vanish SS that set

[lilac stag]

my tot was target of target

just for clarity

[vestal escarp]

Make me stop playing sin

[vale pine]

how much did you all enjoy your visioning yesterdy

[fallow nimbus]

1 mask assa speedruns

[vale pine]

i did 1 mask with my gf we unlocked all masks possible

[lilac stag]

You do the bike parts?

[vale pine]

bike parts?

[lilac stag]

collect the parts for the void cycle mount

[fallow nimbus]

Kill the bike and dude in dwarven district

I'm missing the mask where you need to kill all mobs

[short radish]

all done

tbh

didnt mind it

last few weeks been enjoying solo content

t11 delves

full vision stuff etc

not sure if i want to try do 5mask though this week

[fallow nimbus]

Did you do the 5mask av?

Oh

[short radish]

i have 5 masks

unlocked

just havent completed a run with all of that

[fallow nimbus]

I will collect the mounts today and do the 5mask stuff when the tree is unlocked

[short radish]

its kinda worth doing 5 mask as soon as possible to farm champ gear if you have alts

[bleak night]

im just waiting for the tree to do all the stuff

[vale pine]

5 masks without the unlocked talents is tough

[short radish]

yeah

i think it'd be okay if i didnt have the 50% mask

[fallow nimbus]

My alt has myth gear and the garbage chars can use the warbound scraps. They are lucky to have any equip at all

[short radish]

but i dont think i could clear fast enough with 50%

[fallow nimbus]

The 50% mask, the extra sanity drain from skills and the mob spawn can ruin runs

[wicked urchin]

late response but i got my masks and did absolutely nothing else

[vale pine]

ye

my gf did think we would survive longer so we died once to not using orb before she pulled

(she played tank)

but overall, it was fairly fast to just do a few visions to get the masks etc

i am sad there is time gating

i would have loved to unlock more of the tree this week

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm annoyed we can't go down more of the tree yet

[haughty mural]

What did you play in visions ?

[alpine wraith]

sub is banger

but some people have played assa too

demise seems a good one

sub just has 2 sprints with shroud

[plush roost]

Outlaw was nice

Grapple on zero cd basically

[alpine wraith]

also you can pull the whole zone and just kill them

only zone you cant do it is on mage zone

[hazy breach]

I did demise

[plush roost]

I had literally no idea what was going on since i never played bfa visions

[hazy breach]

But everything has no HP so it doesnt really matter

[plush roost]

So i noticed sanity drains so fast

[hazy breach]

Like the end bosses have 20M hp

[plush roost]

And decided going fast with grapple hook was the play

[alpine wraith]

yea all bosses died in 1 sec tech

was silly

and tbh im lazy to do a 5 mask run

but should be possible to do 3 or so

if you lvl up the relic thingies

idk if worth the trouble for a hero piece

[wicked urchin]

assa bleed in visions was great

[upper narwhal]

3 mask was really easy on assa, not bothering with 5 masks until next week

[wicked urchin]

wow i hadn’t scrolled in a bit

[swift tinsel]

Might end up gold subbing just to check them out

[alpine wraith]

if you are taking a break not worth because corruptions disappear next patch anyway

but if you want the mounts etc

might want to sub now so you can get the stormwind exclusive masks

[swift tinsel]

I might for the mounts and titles

I did them all the time as fdk in BFA and with rider I can pony all over the place

[lilac stag]

I just want the title The Mad

[swift tinsel]

Yeah that’s the only one I’d be after

Idr the other one

The Faceless One?

Something like that

[lilac stag]

the mad sums up playing rogue in wow

[swift tinsel]

Lmao right

[lilac stag]

get that and done

[alpine wraith]

think there are new ones

for 5 and 8 mask

[swift tinsel]

Yeah that’s Faceless and Mad titles iirc

[alpine wraith]

i already had the 5 one i think

[lilac stag]

8 is the mad

5 is the bfa title

[clever delta]

lovely spec

[alpine wraith]

damn aug climbin

[merry agate]

We back to bfa

Even the first dance is back 🙏

[native zodiac]

Atleast its only up from here

[alpine wraith]

nah bfa was like 5 times worse

[lilac stag]

Swap to bleed in mage zone

[alpine wraith]

dont worry

no need to swap everything dies in a strike vis

you literally skip mobs with steps and vanish strike get to the portal mian zone kill 2 portal guys+ fat boi

house portal house portal elite

then mount into magister

kinda throwback to 5 years ago

you do it in around 40 secs or so

[lilac stag]

I forgot I need to do the kill everything still

[alpine wraith]

i dont know if i care enough to do it this week at least

i just got the minor corruption and cba

[merry agate]

You were cooking builds in bfa when no one was 🥺

[alpine wraith]

nah bfa had like 2 builds and what i played was not even good

it was just fun

[merry agate]

They should bring this bad boi back for shuriken storm 🤔

[alpine wraith]

ah that one was fun

did you know it was meant to be a sub only one

then they changed it to both

then said fuck sub

and made it assa only

[tribal blade]

that's a sub trend

i enjoyed how they took dance off the class tree to give us more identity back

...and then just stole another sub talent to replace it with

smile

[alpine wraith]

the latest dagger in our back

the change to vanish things then leaving subterfuge to work with outlaw and assa things

and for sub

...

sorry ran out of time teheee

(fuck you)

[short radish]

im sad i missed out on the brief 8 hours where it was bugged and the 2nd spray could also proc itself again

[alpine wraith]

i think the devs played pvp a bit too much and got farmed by a good sub rmp for 6 years in a row

i mean also changing first dane in bfa from a good azerite talent

[hazy breach]

Ye very strange

[alpine wraith]

to one that gave CP but HASTE

the previous first dance was perfectly fine and worked great with mfd

then they nerfed the stacking anyway

[rough rivet]

gonna get some hate for it but i loved dfa. popping cds midair was peak gameplay imo

[alpine wraith]

why hate most people didnt even play back then

it has almost been 10 years

[hazy breach]

Thats not really controversial

[alpine wraith]

so they dont know or care

[fallow nimbus]

The hate for dfa was the animation lock and people dying with it

[rough rivet]

and the falling through dalaran because some training dummies were bugged 😄

[rough rivet]

true, im old. or rather we are

[fallow nimbus]

Never had that

[rough rivet]

you didnt? i had that like every other dfa

[tribal blade]

i experienced more bugs with falling through the world with strike port in legion than dfa

or getting insta dc'd because it put on on the edge of stuff

[lilac stag]

Strike was worse than heroic leap/charge and on par with felrush

[alpine wraith]

cloak and dagger was peak krangle

that it got baked into strike baseline was so silly

[upbeat cradle]

I made a new character on a pvp server on classic and the new warning message made me chuckle a bit. "Please do not request a GM if you get farmed in PvP"

[upbeat cradle]

It was worth the occasional death imo

[rough rivet]

still get these, same with grappling. it either doesnt work at all, works as intended or dcs me.

[brittle plinth]

That's the issue for sure. Sub is oppressive in pvp when you look at it across the years and in the current game catalog, so they just ignore it in some weird revenge fetish.

[sacred yarrow]

"sub is undertuned due to weird revenge fetish from devs" wowhead article popping up in 30 minutes

[frozen lichen]

guys, one question, radiant power or depths, when use this combinations?

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

so if you click on teh guide

and click on consumables

it tells you

which to use

but also

it doesnt matter

[haughty mural]

Loved it in maw of souls

[short radish]

use either or

it doesnt make a noticiable difference

[frozen lichen]

2 subs on gally, one use depth and another radiant

[short radish]

i can guarantee you

it made no difference who got r1 parse

acutally wait no maybe thats a lie

[haughty mural]

I do radiant

Because gamba

[short radish]

for all I know the guy got every single proc during his cds

[frozen lichen]

corrupt too, gush >> void?

[haughty mural]

[short radish]

the only thing that matters on gallywix is

did you get to cleave on adds

and if so how long

[tribal blade]

adds don't live very long on gally with current raid buff and ilvl

so trying to parse gally is kinda doomed

[short radish]

hows your prog going?

[tribal blade]

we killed it today!

[short radish]

yeah i see some 3.5mill parses and im like

okay how much did you pay your raid to go full ST build

[tribal blade]

bro i'm getting nowhere near that lol

[short radish]

gzgzgzgz

[tribal blade]

ty 🙂

[short radish]

any good loot?

[tribal blade]

2 of the 1 handers which the enhance on my push team got, which is good

but kinda trash loot, no jastors

[short radish]

F

[tribal blade]

so i gotta wait 2 more weeks to buy jastors

[short radish]

ive seen so much cursed gallywix loot

its stupid how much trash that boss has

[tribal blade]

yeah i dunno why they keep making end bosses with mostly trash loot

they need to bring back bosses like sylv

sylvanas had such good loot

[cloud rover]

I bought heroic Jastor for Gallywix Prog

Because it was 1%

[short radish]

bruh

[cloud rover]

Everything for the Team

[short radish]

gallywix isnt a dps check

[tribal blade]

hey 1% is 1%

[short radish]

its not even a check

[tribal blade]

but yeah you just prog P1

[short radish]

gallywix just

dies

randomly

on one of your pulls

[tribal blade]

and then have your bomb carriers not die in P2 and P3 and the boss dies

[short radish]

you'll make it through p1 cleanly

[cloud rover]

I just wanted max stuff

[short radish]

then you'll make it through p2 cleanly

then suddenly gallywix is at 10% health

[cloud rover]

and i already have Pacemaker and HoC Myth

[tribal blade]

yeah we progging P3 basically in 1 night tonight and killed it

[cloud rover]

so i wouldnt even know what to use it for

[short radish]

and youre like ???? where did the fight go

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-dog-dog-cute-soo-cute-gif-15537377810302690700

[short radish]

mythic jastors!

[cloud rover]

i can in 2 weeks

[tribal blade]

oh that's right you can't upgrade a dinar item

holy trash lol

you were honestly probably better off just sitting on your dinar

but it's kinda w/e

[cloud rover]

I mean only 2 items i would use it for are On Hand from mugzee and Eye of kezan

[tribal blade]

yeah i think you would want to min max your dinar usage only if you're multispeccing

[cloud rover]

And tbf, many people will buy Jastor mythic anyways and Mugzee weapon is already bought by people

[tribal blade]

i bought HoC first

so hopefully i get jastors on a reclear before the next dinar

[teal cobalt]

was thinking of rerolling rogue for reclears is it griefing not playing assa? i really enjoy sub atm

[tribal blade]

with current raid buff and ilvl no

i haven't done a reclear in a while, but i imagine everything is falling over

[short radish]

its reclear

[tribal blade]

only boss realistically where your raid would miss you being sin is mugzee

[short radish]

do whatever you want

yeah but mugzee you push so early now anyway

before 2nd jails

[tribal blade]

damn nice

[short radish]

fight is so wack lol

you do a different push every week

same with OAB i think

[tribal blade]

yeah i heard about the speed strat for bandit

[lilac stag]

We’re on prog and almost skipping last 2 sets

[tribal blade]

nniiiice

[lilac stag]

curious to see how tonight goes

[teal cobalt]

ok ty was staring blindly at archon tier lists so needed to hear that it dosent matter. i main healer and barely see rogues

[lilac stag]

Was 33% Tuesday

[short radish]

this is the way

unless you are RWF

nothing really matters

[lilac stag]

Most people don’t find rogue fun

[short radish]

most people are stupid

[lilac stag]

prog matters. Reclears dont

[short radish]

wait or are we the stupid ones still playing sub

[lilac stag]

We are the dumdums

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

it’s just a test of wills between this channel and blizzard. Except blizzard doesn’t know about the test actually taking place

Purgatory

[short radish]

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/eternal-purgatory-ep-welcome-to-ep-gif-2592485618272138283

[teal cobalt]

is there a big dps difference or just popularity between the specs?

[lilac stag]

both

[short radish]

flee this channel now

[lilac stag]

well assa does just about everything better right now

[short radish]

before it is too late

there is still hope for you yet

[lilac stag]

May I suggest mage or dk

[short radish]

but for us, we are doomed to remain here forever

yeah just play a mage

impossible to die unless the raid dies

or DK

[haughty mural]

I love that one

[short radish]

pretty sure i've seen fdks tank the 3rd boss in workshop

or uhdk

one of them

[short radish]

that and

[lilac stag]

@tepid raven can we get this on RH?

[short radish]

i thought i stole it from RH

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

Wait am I just blind?

[short radish]

no

[haughty mural]

No it’s not in rh

[short radish]

i swear i stole it from RH ages ago

but its not here anymore

[tepid raven]

Remind me in 2 and a half hours when I’m out of work

[lilac stag]

kk

enjoy the rest of your day!

[short radish]

gl with work

[haughty mural]

Sending you shamrocks for the rest of your workday

[clever delta]

spec still fun

little buff inc soon surely

[bleak night]

[clever delta]

i dont even thin sub need big buff to catch up on assa

[short radish]

blizzard: why do you keep asking for buffs when you are top of the meters

[clever delta]

since the fight are super short so execute is like half now

[short radish]

fights just need to last exactly 1min 55 seconds

fuck all the 2min classes

[fiery pewter]

Just a bit more to BP

[clever delta]

xdd

pls god no

[fiery pewter]

If they buff it enough we will use it single target as well

[lilac stag]

Rogue in general is trending 📉

[clever delta]

yeah i know

[lilac stag]

assa was holding with execute

[clever delta]

but assa got hit by execute

[lilac stag]

ye

[clever delta]

mugzee you use to get two set of cds in 35

now you get only one and half of kb

[haughty mural]

Youre getting us nerfed

Stahp

[fiery pewter]

Does Rogue class fantasy just not appeal anymore? Other classes can have a decent amount of players even when they are bad, but it seems like when Rogue is bad nobody plays it

[tepid trellis]

depending on mug'zee strat you can still get 2x dm in execute

[clever delta]

same for galliwix, i got two set of cds in excetue now i get one

[lilac stag]

at this point I just show up and apply atrophic and afk

[short radish]

never did since like

classic

rogue is the 2nd least played class

least is evoker

[clever delta]

bro i like all 3 specs i cant help myself

[lilac stag]

dragooons saving us from total dumpster

[clever delta]

only issue i have is when im force to play one for long time

and for some reason that one is always ass

[short radish]

i just refused to play assi this tier

[lilac stag]

unless you’re Guy, then it’s sub

[short radish]

i've had enough of switching specs

for every single boss

i dont care enough anymore

[lilac stag]

I’m tempted to do sub on OAB, but I don’t think cds with are push are gonna be good on assa

have to look more later

[clever delta]

i will wait for next dinnar

piuck up the mythic pace

and paly outlaw or sub

[tepid trellis]

i aint touching sub until they fix/buff this shit show of a spec

[clever delta]

what they need to fix anway

im kinda lost on current situation

[fiery pewter]

That is what I miss most when I was a WW Monk main, didn't have to worry about playing other specs

[short radish]

5% damage buff

and we're average

there are bugs sure

and rookery 1st boss is illegal

but spec still feels comfy

[lilac stag]

CDR. FW

[young path]

Got a 17CB done yesterday playing tea tornado and dark brew…. What a shitty key that is for me (or maybe our spec)

Chain pulls of the first area we just fall so far behind

Once off to 2nd and 3rd bosses, we can keep pace, but damn it feels bad until then

[short radish]

honestly first area

play assi

then swap to sub

first area sub just cant compete at all

like acutally impossible

[young path]

Ye, prob need to do that tbh

[short radish]

your cooldowns run out and then

well gu ess i'll do no damage

[young path]

Feels dirty LOL

[short radish]

for 30 seconds

meanwhile pack is still 30% hp

gz on the 17 though

[paper rock]

+-

[old venture]

Same

[haughty mural]

Wen can now do the tfd bug

[short radish]

why the fuck are you just standing there in stealth while this pack is still alive

are you lagging?

hello?

[haughty mural]

True and based

[fiery pewter]

6 seconds is just too long IMO

[vale pine]

haha the lovely the first dance ^^

[hazy breach]

Not with the bug though

[unreal dock]

is it worth to wait 6 s in stealth to have it for burst phase ?

[haughty rose]

rookery as a whole is a shit show. at least till the last boss. i hate that dungeon with a burning passion

[hazy breach]

His point was that sectech literally doesnt hit if you use it when first boss is midair

Like the clones do literally 0 dmg because theyre out of range

[unreal dock]

i checked pin, but still. If you don't use that bug

is it worth to wait 6s or not ?

[hazy breach]

Sometimes

[haughty rose]

yeah i know. i just don't wanna miss a single opportunity to publicly shit on that dungeon

[lusty relic]

does anyone here know why sub generally isn't taking gloomblade this patch, despite the positioning requirements on backstab? (e.g. on Gallywix, you spend so much time facing the front of the boss like during soaks or when he is floating off the edge of the arena). Does the positional requirement not matter in these instances?

[wraith sphinx]

Both moves do 0 damage and exist purely to give combo points

[lusty relic]

haha fair enough

[hazy breach]

Gloomblade still has the positional requirement

Sure its not got the +20% dmg like backstab does, but the main thing is the find weakness application from improved backstab is from behind only, same with gloomblade. Despite the tooltip saying otherwise

Its also in a bad place in the talent tree

[lilac stag]

gloomer aint gonna save our dps outside of cds

[warm depot]

the only thing that can save our dps outside of cds is swapping to sin

[leaden prairie]

pussy

[graceful osprey]

Backstab is just another auto attack that you have press

Still would rather the old backstab sound

[void ocean]

Any buffs?

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

The only buff is the friends we made along the way

Which is to say none. No buffs.

[graceful osprey]

11.2, surely, you’ll see, surely

[void ocean]

Im done anyways so... 🥂

I'll enjoy reading ur happy remarks here regarding 11.2 sub 🤣

[graceful osprey]

Copium all day, everyday

[lusty relic]

was wondering about this, ty

[lilac stag]

Rogue or WoW?

[void ocean]

One doesnt go without the other for me 🤣

[chrome palm]

Does dances threat reduction apply to threat redirected with tricks of the trade?

[junior prawn]

Are videos allowed to be posted here , like a meme that is about sub rogue

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[junior prawn]

more like this i meant

[lilac stag]

kinda weak.

[bleak night]

Bongo cat better

[lilac stag]

[sour forum]

did they change mugzee recently? can u shadowstep out of cages nowadays?

[neon frigate]

Tomorrow class tuning notes?

[keen dome]

Sure

[neon frigate]

Every 3 weeks on friday it seems

[hazy breach]

They did not change

Its technically possible but its an abysmally small window you have so its completely unreliable

The walls need to come up while youre "midair" of shadowstep

[sour forum]

thx

yeee

im not even going to bother with that

[lilac stag]

Velf

[unique nest]

Hey, how bad is the proc rate of echoig void compared to sim ? do we already know ?

[lilac stag]

1/2 ish

but the cheap ones aren’t in sims anyways

[unique nest]

Do we go void ritual, then ?

[haughty mural]

Will be peak.. trust

Upside down

[vestal escarp]

midair more like while your packets are traveling

[trail furnace]

Is it just me or does this class deal 0 dmg in M+ compared to other rogue specs? I switched back to sub cause it’s the funnest spec but my damage falls off hard in large aoe pulls compared to other classes, my rotation isn’t perfect but it isn’t too terrible and as a 678 ilvl sometimes I’m getting outdmged by 660s

[young path]

i think it does good

try playing tea and darkbrew, doesnt peak nearly as high but seems better sustained

[junior prawn]

Auto proccing tea

[trail furnace]

Can you link a talent tree?

[lilac stag]

Don’t play tea. lawl

The spec is undertuned. Tea isn’t going to fix that.

If the packs live longer than your CDs, you entering healer dps range while out of them.

[trail furnace]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Your main focus as Sub is ST dmg. You need a shaman and a warrior to do respectable dmg.

[trail furnace]

I was about to say I start the pull drawing huge fkn numbers then I run out of dance charges and then every other dps catches up fast

Then I’m last

[lilac stag]

Assa and Outlaw are just considerably stronger overall.

If you’re not pushing it doesn’t really matter much

[trail furnace]

What’s the best way to leverage subs strengths rn in M+? Doing 13s currently

[lilac stag]

swap to assa

[trail furnace]

Just prio dmg on prio trash?

Lmao

[lilac stag]

assa has basically no need for CDs in trash and does as good if not better prio

[trail furnace]

Assa is trash at st

[lilac stag]

While doing way more dmg on trash

It’s not

[trail furnace]

It’s not fantastic

[lilac stag]

it’s just not nuclear, and honestly neither is sub now

[trail furnace]

Unless you run kingslayee

But if you’re running bleeds build you have no st

Except death mark

[lime stump]

What is st..?

[lilac stag]

You can run FI bleed and do respectable ST dmg

And on 13s you get 2x DM per boss. One in execute

[chrome palm]

Single Target

[lime stump]

Thank youu..!

[chrome palm]

as in damage

[junior prawn]

Sub rogue uniqueness comes from burst st prio dmg but everyone almost does it nowadays anyways

[trail furnace]

I played lots of assa and switched off cause the st was bad but obviously the aoe was great

[lilac stag]

so you’re trash at trash as sub, which is the majority of the dungeon or giga good at trash as Assa and decent at St.

[chrome palm]

when AoE kidney

to save us in m+

[trail furnace]

Figured Sub might be decent right now cause everyone is running aoe and sub can do decent aoe but also good prio/st

[lilac stag]

No

Every other spec in the game had had buffs

[junior prawn]

that would be so good

[lilac stag]

Sub got nerfed.

[trail furnace]

RIP

[fiery pewter]

AoE blind

[chrome palm]

how mobs look at you when you 7 cp kidney them after the shaman dr'd them into oblivion with cap totem

[junior prawn]

already exists

unless u mean aoe like bp

[lilac stag]

when your guide writers and sub one tricks all abandon the spec it’s rather obvious how poor it is competitively.

It’s fine on reclear shit

Not good for pushing or prog

[trail furnace]

How is it at LOU

[junior prawn]

Its good for Punishing your self and guild for prog

[chrome palm]

sub was really good for prog

[lilac stag]

it was only good for prog because we had last seasons trinket to carry. It fell off hard as soon as other got gear and buffs

now assa falling off in raid since you’re losing extended executes with higher ilvl

welcome to rogue

[trail furnace]

My assa raid parses are abysmal

[lilac stag]

[trail furnace]

Feel like I don’t do anything unless it’s an aoe fight

[chrome palm]

theyre all aoe fights

[lilac stag]

well there’s only 1 St fight

[trail furnace]

Where I can vanish and spread rupture then get an assload of energy to combo off a few times

I wouldn’t consider coc aoe

[lilac stag]

me thinks you’re playing it wrong

[trail furnace]

Or sproket

[chrome palm]

bro is running IC for prog

[trail furnace]

But I’m only don’t heroic

[lucid jackal]

Ic for raid

[trail furnace]

Doing*

[lucid jackal]

Bleed build raid

[lilac stag]

you’ve awoken guy

[trail furnace]

Sub disc has more Assa talk then Sub Talk

RIP spec

[lilac stag]

so in raid … caustic splatter is your friend. Just slam boss. Snipe a rupture or two on adds with a mouseover

[fiery pewter]

Assa rogue is the guy she tells you not to worry about

[lilac stag]

Vanish is basically useless in raid

Get an extra ambush or move your mark

[chrome palm]

i was a good boy and held dps on mugzee so i used my vanish

[lilac stag]

don’t worry. Sub buffs soon.

[shut ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/midget-short-guy-midget-cage-cage-short-guy-cage-gif-9960231358870053723

[chrome palm]

frost buffs on reset

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-break-dancing-little-kids-getting-hurt-hurt-ouch-gif-3568736

[junior prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/noob-saibot-noob-mk11-mortal-kombat-mortal-kombat-1-gif-17973867454764035020

[trail furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[neon frigate]

I think tomorrow tuning post from blizzard if it continues trend

[shut ridge]

even if true it’ll undoubtedly go shaman > priest like usual

[junior prawn]

If that doesn't happen you are going to be the next victim

[lilac stag]

Sorry. Devs too busy prohibiting addon usage to port wow to Xbox.

[junior prawn]

Playing 1 Button Rotation wow on my phone

[lucid atlas]

anyone got a flagellation / blades/ trinket / pot macro?

[hazy breach]

Would not recommend

[lucid atlas]

for opener

[hazy breach]

Yes

You dont want flag in there

[lucid atlas]

ah ok

when should I flag

[junior prawn]

After a shadowstrike out of stealth

[lilac stag]

All three guides have opener detailed and I believe with pretty pictures.

!guide

[vale pine]

!guide

hmm

[lilac stag]

it’s dead. Just like sub

[vale pine]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[vale pine]

alright, works

[young path]

I should probably know this, but is there a pandemic type thing for symbols of death?

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel horizon]

yea. 3 seconds

[vale pine]

30% of the duration, so 3 sec like dosem mentioned.
So be careful to not use symbols 2 times in a row because it loses a lot of duration

[hazy breach]

The practice of only using symbols if you have sectech ready (or ready within 10s) automically solves the issue of needing to bother with the pandemic timer

[alpine wraith]

@vale pine did you know they made fungal folly spores do dmg again?

i was doing the 3 delves weekly and suddenly im like wait

[vale pine]

yes

i did it today

[alpine wraith]

this is big news for alts

[vale pine]

its a good change

[alpine wraith]

will make spamming 11s doable super earlyu

[vale pine]

maybe someone did read me ranting how it took away the fun

^^

[alpine wraith]

same

and there are more spores now

so it is even better

can just cheapshot mobs into spores make a bit clump and delete them

[vale pine]

its rly good change

sadly was not talked about

anywhere

[haughty mural]

Like sub

[vale pine]

we can talk in here, there is my article on wowhead going over issues and wishes

so there is some light in the dark ^^

[sly shore]

you guys do delves?

[vale pine]

i did with my gf for fun

[sly shore]

fun

in my game???

[vale pine]

i mean you also get crests

so there is a bit of a benefit to it too

fungal folly def. is my favorite dungeon

*delve

its fast and you can cheese

[sly shore]

you only get guilded from

the better ones right

[fiery pewter]

You can trade up the runed

[vale pine]

you get the mythic ones for the first 3 11 you do

iirc

[gritty knot]

@worn ivy I just checked this russian sub rogue and u and few others and it seems u guys all playing with gushing wound head enchant. Is it good in m+?

[lilac stag]

Lashga quit

There were no buffs this week

[gritty knot]

holy moly

[lilac stag]

unless he cried wolf

[gritty knot]

I mean it's insanity that we don't get any buffs at all. But it is what it is

[lilac stag]

GW is consistent. That’s its positive. In AoE it’s whatever

[hazy breach]

Gushing is good yes, slightly worse in big aoe than something like twilight dev or void ritual

But way better in ST

[lilac stag]

VR to me is still gamba. Loved seeing it proc outside of CDs

[gritty knot]

By now I would be happy even if they just buff shroud somehow because that would tell me "hey we know u still there guys, we think of u" but nothing at all. Well idk.

[gritty knot]

thx @hazy breach

[fiery pewter]

My friend gets more mad when his dead beat dad messages him once in a blue moon than when he doesn't talk to him at all

[lilac stag]

rogue dev team went out for milk

[gritty knot]

They are propably drunk again harassing female co-workers 💀

[young path]

Wait, there is a dev team? I kinda figured they just had the janitor give his input

🤣

[gritty knot]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/is-the-rogue-dev-dead/534010

💀

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

There was a post on Reddit from a guy who put down a tile floor. Did a beautiful job. Maintanence guy walked on it before the tile fully set and it fucked up everything. He sent pictures to the flooring guy’s boss trying to blame the flooring guy. I swear that’s the timeline we’re in for sub development.

[sly shore]

what bugs are with head enchants

[lilac stag]

Not matching spell data on EV

Ie not proccing as intended

[dusk stone]

part of why I said yesterday that there's no way the rogue dev actually reads this chat, is that even if he was busy completely redesigning the class for 11.2 or whatever conspiracy theory we're coming up with, it is both very obvious and seemingly very easy to just do a straight up aura buff. Even feral got a flat 3%. That's why it seems like dad went to the grocery store for milk

What this situation actually reads like is "we just decided rogue is mid and sub is particularly bad this patch'

[swift tinsel]

I mean it might not be up to him if things get buffed

[dusk stone]

thus the 'we just decided rogue is mid and sub is particularly bad this patch'

but yeah that thought occured to me as well

[lilac stag]

They pop in and do read, the frequency is entirely up to them.

[hazy breach]

Its mostly just sub tbh

Assa is good

Outlaw is also good

[dusk stone]

assa is mid in raid, mid in keys

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, we’re the outlier

[lilac stag]

outlaw is like thunderbolts *

KS kills it

Otherwise good

Just needs the *

[hazy breach]

No assa is good in raid, good in keys

[swift tinsel]

Which in terms of overall class design is fine in blizz’s eyes

[lilac stag]

[dusk stone]

compared to meta it is?

[swift tinsel]

2/3 is good

[lilac stag]

Assa is blasting in keys

[swift tinsel]

Don’t compare to meta, compare to mid

Bc everything is worse than meta if it isn’t meta

[lilac stag]

Assa trending down now because execute window is shorter with speed of kills

[swift tinsel]

^

[lilac stag]

Outlaw is really damn good in keys, but you have to stomach KS

Sub is the doomer train.

[hazy breach]

Its like the 4th or 5th best in keys, like 7th or so in raid out of what, 28 specs?

[fiery pewter]

There will always be a bottom spec in every raid tier and I understand that, but nobody should be under the literal support spec

[hazy breach]

Hard to argue thats mid

[swift tinsel]

Yeah def top third

In both scenarios

[lilac stag]

Assa still really good if you’re in prog mode

[swift tinsel]

If not top 25%

[dusk stone]

fair enough i guess

but still the no aura buff even if busy thing is wild

[lilac stag]

reclears all three will look like whatever

[vale pine]

sub just got the bfa treatment again ^^

[swift tinsel]

Think of where the season is tho

Why bother buffing now

[lilac stag]

I asked and you didn’t respond. How long have you been playing wow?

[dusk stone]

that statement would just then read it seems like someone decided 'sub is bad this patch' kind of thing

[hazy breach]

Idk why "the support" dps spec must be the worst

Tons of people say it like its a fact

When its just not

[lilac stag]

ret always had to be bad at dps because utility

[swift tinsel]

With how diminished Ebon Might contribution is

[lilac stag]

Guess not eh?

[swift tinsel]

Nowadays a good ret who can lean into their full kit can add a key level

As long as they aren’t asked to do prio damage lol

[lilac stag]

Sub rogue was dead for nearly what 16 months in BFA? Literally nothing, patch after patch because a raid encounter designer fucked up and got chaffed that Zul became a joke. (Some editorialization there)

[vale pine]

i mean buffing everyone thats statistically equal or worse an dleave one of the already worse ones out is a statement

like

[swift tinsel]

Yeah that graphic speaks volumes

[lilac stag]

Boomkins and F Magi are gonna scream louder and two of the bottom 3 will get buffs. Hahaha

[vale pine]

even if there is no official communication, thats a very clear statement to make

[dusk stone]

if the argument is that they are redesigning it, why is an aura buff too much to ask

[swift tinsel]

“Fuck sub rogues”

[vale pine]

statistics are not the end of all, but it seems like all of the green ones are surprisingly exactly the lower ones in the statistic

[swift tinsel]

And they don’t just come out and say they’re going to redesign

Which leaves plenty of room to doom

[lilac stag]

again you’re new to the blizzard thought process and communication.

[swift tinsel]

Or speculate

[vale pine]

so it might not be intentional

or migth be

[swift tinsel]

And their lack of clear communication doesn’t help

[vale pine]

as long as there is no communication, they are safe

[dusk stone]

the thing is, this isn't a blizzard thing, what is actually appreciable to blizzard is that they aren't the outlier who does it better

[vale pine]

we don't know how balancing works internally

[swift tinsel]

But it’s also weird

[vale pine]

and as such we only guess what data they use to base it on

as mentioned in the article tho

[swift tinsel]

Because historically they’ve put out posts acknowledging when situations like this arise

[vale pine]

there isn't any stand out factor or fight or scenatio

[swift tinsel]

That there’s an intention

[vale pine]

where sub is ahead to justify no action

[lilac stag]

I mean you’re comparing apples to oranges. This is the way blizzard handles wow class balance.

[swift tinsel]

But they’re so inconsistent

[lilac stag]

while they go scorched earth on all addons except the AH. Lol

which arguably impacts just as much if not more of the game

[swift tinsel]

The day they come for TSM

Will be funny lol

The goblins will come out of the woodwork

[lilac stag]

There’s likely less actual goblins than sub rogues

[swift tinsel]

Idk there’s a full discord server and website dedicated

[lilac stag]

ofc but the ah mafia is smaller

And that’s the actual problem

[swift tinsel]

TSM and Undermine gotta have a bigger pop than sub rogues

[lilac stag]

people messing with it sure

[dusk stone]

the ah scenario is super solvable though

[lilac stag]

Doesn’t make them an actual goblin

[shut ridge]

this graphic still causes me physical pain every single time i see it

[lilac stag]

no one touched the AH for over a decade because of how poorly coded it was and literally broke the game every time they made a change. Serious breakage. Not just a minor inconvenience.

I think it took them nearly 3 expansions to finally deploy it as an update and it was misery

nothing is simple on a 20 year old game

[dusk stone]

the price gouging is just because its easier to manipulate things when prices are visible

other games makes similiar features blind and there are way less issues, tmogs are overvalued at like 10x or more in some cases

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah it bricked everything when they tried to merge regions

[dusk stone]

the solution is simple, implementing it might not be

[swift tinsel]

Welcome to wow

[dusk stone]

that's not the same thing though

the addon thing and one button rotation is a bad sign to me imo

it reminds me of ability pruning from swtor for 'accessibility' reasons game literally died from it

[lilac stag]

it’s prep for Xbox gaming

weather or not they admit that

tbd

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I’m waiting for the day it hits Game Pass

[dusk stone]

for fwiw accessibility is basically always corpo talk for really bad things to come for anyone who cares about the game

we find out like 3 weeks later that's stretching to omniCD as well

[lilac stag]

No way M$ doesn’t look to make bank off the largest chunk of their investment.

Accessibility is not speak of bad things to come.

[swift tinsel]

Omnicd should have been implemented into party/raid frames ages ago

In some form

[dusk stone]

"accessibility" "game health" ssdd

[lilac stag]

Adding colorblind mode was an accessibility development.

[dusk stone]

almost always not always

[lilac stag]

go on

[swift tinsel]

If the intention for One Button is for easing new players there’s better ways for sure

[dusk stone]

thats closer to like an exception than the rule though

[lilac stag]

moving goal posts

[swift tinsel]

And some specs it’ll work for to a degree

[dusk stone]

i dont think so. I think it's for dumbing down the game for console port is at least one major thing its for

[swift tinsel]

Sub not being one of them

[dusk stone]

you need to also ask what comes next after that as well

[lilac stag]

they game already has “dumb” versions of all content. Making the game portable to the company that owns you isn’t the accessibility you think it is. It’s making the game of wow function between cross platforms and trying to keep its full features accessible

class development has been getting more basic since WoD. There are a minority of outliers.

all three of the rogue specs happen to be in that minority

[dusk stone]

and what impact does that have on people who play the game at a semi serious or competitive level

[lilac stag]

none? You adjust or you move on.

[dusk stone]

you start seeing things like omniCD being stripped and etc

[lucid jackal]

every change just makes the game worse grrrr

[swift tinsel]

Based af

[lilac stag]

if killing off the 1% of raiders to get 20% more subs isn’t an obvious business choice idk what to tell you.

[lucid jackal]

Dumbing the game down is bad, making it more complicated is bad

Game sux!!!

[dusk stone]

its a very obvious business choice

its also very bad for people who take the game seriously

[lilac stag]

if mythic is gone as we know it, oh well. You either give the new version a try or you say fuck and it do something else with your life.

[dusk stone]

if they do intend to port the game to console, consoles can't even run mods can they?

[swift tinsel]

They can

Fallout does

I’m sure there’s others

[dusk stone]

yeah but its a huge mess of things to get it to work right? or has that changed in the last few years

[swift tinsel]

But then there’s the question of do addon devs want to make two versions if they have to

But realistically

Who would want to try doing certain aspects of the game, once you get to a certain level, on console vs pc when pc has very obvious advantages

Like I can’t imagine trying to heal keys on console

Gfl

[dusk stone]

that is where things are headed when you hear the word accessibility yeah

[swift tinsel]

I highly doubt that blizz would change the base of wow to accommodate that for console

[lilac stag]

I miss flowi

[swift tinsel]

In the way you’re saying

[dusk stone]

is it though

[lilac stag]

Maybe unbanned once Xbox comes

[dusk stone]

isn't it true that most people just do questing/delves/easy to easy middle level content

seems like thats the core audience

[swift tinsel]

They’d basically have to maintain two versions of the game

And I do not see them pulling that off successfully

[dusk stone]

so what you do is dumb down the base game to appeal to a wider audience which is what basically all mmo's late into their life cycle do