You would just triple dance opener and play the rest the same
#subtlety
swift tinsel
yeah I'd take better cdr over another charge
merry agate
Just 0,1 more would go a long way 
graceful osprey
It’s fine, 11.2 is surely when they change things. Surely they have been saving sub changes until 11.2
sullen hare
Best I can do is some PvP nerfs to make sure that subtlety gets some changes
keen dome
Maybe we should all become really good at PvP as a protest and beat everybody, so they buff us to get us back into PvE
formal helm
Best I can do is some PvP nerfs to make sure that subtlety gets some changes
cut stun duration by 50%
and while we're at it make it so you take dmg when you stealth
sullen hare
lilac stag
Blizzard heard we like being so tanky in raid that they made our dps match the actual tanks.
dry plank
Maybe we should all become really good at PvP as a protest and beat everybody, s...
It will lead to more nerfs. Protest is to unsubscribe but it does not matter even if all rogue stop playing it won’t affect anything. Unforch we are outnumbered
graceful osprey
What if blizzard planning to make sub a tank in 11.2
dry plank
I was hoping that this is outlul destiny to be a tank spec
leaden plover
What if blizzard planning to make sub a tank in 11.2
The spec is being deleted in 11,2.
delicate wind
My sub gets deleted if sub gets deleted
lilac stag
I don’t think they care. What are they going to lose 50 people tops? 
keen dome
Well, they'd lose me, the guy who never logs off
left flame
Why is sub rogue lower than aug evoker in raid now - is sub officially dead
slate marlin
I don’t think they care. What are they going to lose 50 people tops? <:garf_sit:...
woah woah
who are the other 27
hollow spear
Well, they'd lose me, the guy who never logs off
They will take away the purple
keen dome
Never
nocturne birch
!wa
wicked joltBOT
graceful osprey
Why is sub rogue lower than aug evoker in raid now - is sub officially dead
Yes
leaden plover
Why is sub rogue lower than aug evoker in raid now - is sub officially dead
support spec
crystal bone
graceful osprey
The only time I feel good is when my guild swaps to alts but even then it’s tough to keep up with some of the more geared alts
ashen dock
sub is saved, we having a housing interview
swift tinsel
gotta have a cozy spot when benched
graceful osprey
Marksman hunter doing like insane burst and I’m like…that should be me 
left ledge
I think they should nerf evis by 5%
ashen dock
it's only fair that they make us manually cast SnD again
swift tinsel
I would if it benefit from mastery
left ledge
Make feint an offensive cd like initially planned
Please
Also why does evasion work on melees
I thought evasion was just cosmetic
swift tinsel
dodge stronk
swift tinsel
it works for quite a few things
useful in m+
Eleem has a whole section on evasion uses
rocky ocean
raw wadi
humble frigate
If at first you dont succeed, die again and again
delicate wind
u will die
brave moth
can you reset a boss with a shuriken + vanish
Remove poisons
and you have to time the vanish
But idk if it is boss specific. Worked on Vexie, didnt work on Sprocket
fiery pewter
Give me a boss fight where it only lasts 30 seconds, I will be a god in my non mythic raiding group
wild hornet
and you have to time the vanish
dont you go max distance and spam vanish
man i cant fucking parse on rik ever
honest void
if all i got is signet do I wait the 30 secs for signet?
kind bluff
You farm the pvp trinket
molten citrus
Badge
honest void
the explorer one?
lilac stag
yea very sadge youll actually do dmg
wild hornet
tradeoff for my rik suffering
alpine wraith
big
vale pine
tradeoff for my rik suffering
nicuu gz
honest void
yea very sadge youll actually do dmg
sadge till i get it
tame agate
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
kind bluff
What trinkets are people buying with dinars? Pacemaker, hotline, or eye of kezan?
hazy breach
I would probably not recommend buying hotline
Its not "simbait" per se, but what can happen is that if your ranged press BL before youve actually hit the boss you wont get the extra BL proc from the trinket
Which in turns makes it very lackluster
kind bluff
Wait what?
hazy breach
You get all the 3 dudes when you press BL right
kind bluff
Hotline just proc doesn't happen if you haven't hit boss?
kind bluff
No shit. Good to know ty eleem.
glacial ferry
This actually happens a lot to in my experience because every ranged wants to pre fire on the boss but if you try to hit the boss as sub ever you will instantly blow up and get flamed in your raid
alpine wraith
oh btw i forgot balance also has crazy burst now
worn ivy
what was the ability name you soak on mugzee ? the small circles
worn ivy
trying to find on details help pls
alpine wraith
what was the ability name you soak on mugzee ? the small circles
gaol?
worn ivy
Uncontrolled destruction?
was it
i wanna see how many people soak how many times
i need the spell name 😄
stiff ermine
Is jastor sim bugged as heroic sims less than cyrce's?
hollow spear
It sims less because it's worse
worn ivy
CLUSTER BOMBS yeah
native zodiac
those soaks come from the mines though fyi
when you pop them
because you said "no mines"
worn ivy
yeye i just wanted to check
whos doing the most soaks
the problem was our range was soaking melee bombs
so range soaks was missing
fixed
brave moth
Stupid question buuttt. Does it matter if I stay behind the boss or there is no diff. I remember Trickster was making the boss unable to parry some shit.
alpine wraith
you wont get fw with backstab if you are not behind
cloud rover
@tribal blade I was blessed for doing the right thing
lilac stag
huGe
chrome palm
is this a sensible thing to do? bot prioritizing premed usage over sec tech in blades
round latch
<@146180393941336064> I was blessed for doing the right thing
huge
kind bluff
This may seem like a stupid question, and maybe I'm simming incorrectly. But my sims have me dropping mastery for crit and that seems counter intuitive with my gear.
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/stormrage/belaiz
hazy breach
is this a sensible thing to do? bot prioritizing premed usage over sec tech in b...
No
But it does that so rarely so it doesnt make much of a difference (ie no difference)
And fixing it is really annoying
chrome palm
i thought it might just be apl programming ty
placid lynx
sub rogue joined the hall of shame
short radish
sub is the real support spec
because it makes all the other specs feel better about themselves
tribal blade
<@146180393941336064> I was blessed for doing the right thing
NIIIICE
tribal blade
sub rogue joined the hall of shame
sub so fake we're not even mentioned in getting fucked into last spot
wispy bolt
wide kernel
Marksman hunter doing like insane burst and I’m like…that should be me <:feelscr...
No and if you ask again next patch will just result in gloom blade spam
random mason
we scale like shit with ilevel
They shoulda put transmitter with current season ilvl on the dinar vendor and tied it to gally kills for hc and myth track u right
placid lynx
they should revert the ton of nerfs they did the firsts weeks of season
lilac stag
Swap to 
random mason
Sim it
hazy breach
The sim doesnt really handle non-flag builds, it kinda breaks
I considered adding checks to fix that onto almost every single line in the entire APL
But even with those fixes the best non flag build was like 13% behind
So i decided its not worth cluttering up the APL with nonsense 
hazy breach
You just and |!talent.flagellation onto every line that interacts with flag
But its, uh, a lot of them
worn ivy
no sechtech gaming with DS ? 😄
swift tinsel
you're overthinking
swift tinsel
lol that build looks so ass
swift tinsel
yeah idk what the thought is there
are you just going to hope singular focus carries
worn ivy
yes
maybe this ? 😄
9k evis,
big AOE
NO FLAG gaming version
na its bad 😄
everythingis badddddddddddd
NE REWORK IMMIDIETLYH
worn ivy
final cook
but you needto CB - EVIS
on the BUFF
DO we have sims that knows which one is more stronger
like for example darkbrew > shadowcraft > rotten > bla bla
something like this
must have is dansse macabre?
swift tinsel
you can sim it
to find out
you're asking questions you can find the answers to
do whatever talent setups you want, copy talent import strings into raidbots advance sim and make copy="talent tree name" and paste talents=xxxxxxxxxx for each set
swift tinsel
you cannot untalent DM
this man talented out of sectech and shadowcraft, anything is on his table
worn ivy
can i consume darknest night with sech tech ?
worn ivy
followthe blood or momentum dispair ?
tribal blade
iirc you talent momentum because follow the blood is bugged with sub
something about it not buffing shadow portions of finishers
but i can't remember for sure
bleak night
have you considered dropping shadowblades
worn ivy
actually 😄
swift tinsel
I can’t imagine that build being very good
wide kernel
have you considered dropping shadowblades
Don't you mean find weakness
swift tinsel
But have fun
quaint lodge
worn ivy
trickster cook maybe tea instead of CB
swift tinsel
Tea isn’t very good
lilac stag
Sub isn’t very good
short radish
fiery pewter
So my current offhand is a 658 dagger. I have a 675 mace that I crafted for Outlaw. I just learned that I could actually use non dagger weapons in my off hand so I figured it would be a decent ilvl upgrade. But on simming it actually sims 50k dps less than my dagger. Is that primarily due to the attack speed difference of the Mace being 2.60s meaning less Shadow Techniques?
short radish
So my current offhand is a 658 dagger. I have a 675 mace that I crafted for Outl...
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
fiery pewter
I see
short radish
fiery pewter
fiery pewter
I did happen to dump 30 gilded to make it 681 too lol
Welp no biggie
Ill make a ticket. Blizzard should take pity on me because im Sub
fiery pewter
Im kidding
wide kernel
Tea isn’t very good
Isn't the cap on mastery 120%?
worn ivy
isnt Cloud Cover lowkey op ?
hybrid prism
Did we get any buffs yet? I have been playing a lot of d4 while I wait for them
short radish
Did we get any buffs yet? I have been playing a lot of d4 while I wait for them
only buffs in d4
hybrid prism
Makes sense. I’m loving d4. I got it during the sale about a week ago and it’s really fun. Like Diablo 2 and 3 had a baby. Pretty sweet. Rogue is fun.
lilac stag
Did we get any buffs yet? I have been playing a lot of d4 while I wait for them
You’re gonna be in d4 for the foreseeable future
hybrid prism
Would like some buffs in wow though!
short radish
Would like some buffs in wow though!
i'd also like a pony but that just isn't happening
hybrid prism
They forgot our spec exists in wow
hybrid prism
i'd also like a pony but that just isn't happening
Understandable
short radish
bright elk
how did sub fall so far? thought it was pretty good at the start of the tier
short radish
how did sub fall so far? thought it was pretty good at the start of the tier
well you see when we get nerf week -1 of raid
short radish
and get all of our upgrades by week 2 of raid
and yeah also don't get a single buff
there's not really much room for us to grow
bright elk
fair
bummer, I swapped assa for prog and it feels so much slower
I miss the big opener burst
short radish
yeah fuck playing assi
just play sub
who cares
only losers swap to assi
like @tribal blade
tribal blade
like <@146180393941336064>
TRUEEEE
short radish
https://tenor.com/view/tobey-cry-cri-crying-meme-gif-20634328
please dont post pictures of me thank you
hybrid prism
how did sub fall so far? thought it was pretty good at the start of the tier
That’s why, we were dying before anyone had tier set, so we had to get nerfed, even though that only lasted for two weeks. Now we suck!
worn ivy
tribal blade
what did you end up deciding on playing for gally
i think it'll just be sin, might ask my RL what he wants
short radish
well of course theyre going to say sin
rocky ocean
worn ivy
bleak night
worn ivy
when ?
lucid lily
Free will exists. Just play it
wild hornet
only losers swap to assi
That's what I've been saying for the past months
wild hornet
i think it'll just be sin, might ask my RL what he wants
I told mine it's either sub outlaw or self bench
short radish
based
short radish
theyre garbage specs so its fine
short radish
assi and outlaw are garbage specs by default
and yeah
subs also pretty garbage
so all
wild hornet
assi and outlaw are garbage specs by default
Warcraftogs agrees
My 100 placed me on the bottom rows of DPS in the group
short radish
ye
even with all its bugs
sub is fun
just one balance patch away from being average
thats what i keep telling myself
cloud rover
i think it'll just be sin, might ask my RL what he wants
I ahve to admit btw
SIn CDs always align with Suppression
short radish
teal prawn
You just cloak it and stay in right?
short radish
well
if youre on prog you prss cloak when you need to do for the nasty overlap point at 6min
if youre farming though, you cloak whenever you need to and proc cheat death at 6min
haughty rose
i got shit on by an outlaw in a +10 yesterday. he complained about me using black powder instead of bursting the priority target and left the key right after the first trash pack after i said "what". i whispered him wtf was wrong with him and he said something along the lines of he can't play a key with a sub that does aoe instead of priority damage. while idc about this toxicity i'm still curious. i obviously got his point but by that logic we could simply remove BP entirely because there is always a priority target that need to die quick and where i should use evis instead of BP. so was he only mad that i did double the DPS that he did even tho he was 7 ilv higher or should i only do single target rotation on literally every trash because there is always a marked priority target?
and because theres a chance that this dear mister outlaw sir reads this: as i said yesterday, proper loser mentality. leaving the key at first trash pull because one dps doesnt exactly do what you want should get you a ban. could've just told me instead of instantly leaving
short radish
dudes an idiot
molten citrus
i got shit on by an outlaw in a +10 yesterday. he complained about me using blac...
fuck em
shut ridge
molten citrus
black powder when appropriate
cloud rover
You just cloak it and stay in right?
Doesnt work, because i have to use Claok for a cone soak
haughty rose
who the fuck cares
i know a guy
native zodiac
Was about to say none of this should matter for a 10 just go ahead and bp on high target count
short radish
tell him i think he's an idiot
bleak night
haughty rose
but technically in higher keys?
haughty rose
we dont exist in higher keys
lol true
coarse bolt
rogue on rogue violence is a disgraceful thing
if the 20 of us can't get along what hope is there
flat prawn
Thats a kin slaying crime...
coarse bolt
also whomever pieced that group together, wild fucking comp to somehow end up with an outlaw and a sub at the same time.
ashen dock
also whomever pieced that group together, wild fucking comp to somehow end up wi...
Nothing but respect for the leader of I’m honest. Bringing two rogues, UNHEARD of
haughty rose
yeah i had luck with my +10 keys the last couple days. the outlaw thing yesterday and also where i did my own key i had a short disconnect where i rubber banded. i said "fuck timeout" and the tank and healer who queued together said that they can leave if i have a problem with their timing and that theres still plenty of time left. healer just straight out said "bye" lmao. 2 bosses left on top and 15+ minutes time. had to explain that i was talking about my internet not about key timing haha
coarse bolt
i run keys less and less on my rogue but i know very few people who are not kinda stoked to see a sub rogue over the years regardless of the balence
haughty rose
also whomever pieced that group together, wild fucking comp to somehow end up wi...
it was a 650something healer and we had no BL xD
short radish
yeah weekly 10s have been a nightmare
12s are safer now
no affix
less idiots
and 20 crests
coarse bolt
ehhh 12s are kinda weird too, farming them all week and my average app is 2300 650ish with almost nothing timed over a 10
short radish
oh yeah you still dont take the random 10 andys
but you get more "pumpers" in the 12s
haughty rose
12s are safer now
if i only could get in with my 671ilv and 2,5k rio. i'm top 100 in HC LoU DPS but guess that doesn't matter in m+
coarse bolt
and like i dont mean to sound like a dick
short radish
if i only could get in with my 671ilv and 2,5k rio. i'm top 100 in HC LoU DPS bu...
just gotta start running your own key mate
that way youre always in
haughty rose
just gotta start running your own key mate
yeah i'm doing this but since the turbo boost it's hard to find people. on the situation with the tank and healer yesterday literally no one applied until the tank and healer applied together. took me like 5 minutes
coarse bolt
the thing that is really grinding my gears....how does a alarming large portion of people with lust seem to have no idea when to use it
haughty rose
BL for (sub) rogue when
coarse bolt
this season broadly - 1st pack and 2nd boss like there is nuance but like woah
short radish
this season broadly - 1st pack and 2nd boss like there is nuance but like woah
tell that to the motherlode where you skip half the first instance
coarse bolt
like sure depends on the route I would argue most people in the 10+ pug world pull big early in ML
but broadly thats a good rule of thumb rather than not doing the thing you are there to do
I had a shaman in a 12 ML lust the mid phase of the last boss once
literally the worst possible time ever to do so
short radish
yeah
first pull then whatever boss its up for next is good rule of thumb
except top i guess
coarse bolt
even top its probably not shit as you skip pull the cow into the boss and lust
2nd lust is maybe zombie wing big pull
then you have it for 50% on last boss
coarse bolt
top is increasingly my least favorite dungeon
the abom boss is about 30% longer than my attention span
short radish
hahaha it's become the exact opposite for me
because i get so many TFD resets
plus it's fun to troll the group on the last boss
doing /challenge on the ghost mob
short radish
funnel 
if you're ever in voice with ppl doing it
and it's not a super important key
just drop the "hey X, do you get funnel from extra mobs"
and if they answer yes
you better challenge that lad
coarse bolt
I was a little dissapointed by that wowhead article that was like "aug isnt last" that had basically no context
short radish
aug should be deleted
coarse bolt
I have always played all 3 specs from boss to boss and there being so few rogue players regardless of balence is a story
it is a discussion
short radish
i used to play all 3 specs
or at least assi/sub
but now i just dont care anymore
its too much effort
and assi is so boring
coarse bolt
I feel that
and maybe it's just me but i know almost nobody that plays a rogue alt. There is just something fundamentally off since at least legion's over pruning.
cause like numbers wise we have been good and that weirdly doesnt matter
bleak night
funnily enough all of the people with rogue alts i know of are ret mains
alpine wraith
we just do nothing special and the gameplay is not smooth
assa i kinda a worse arms warrior
sub a worse ww
outlaw worse ret/fury
etc
feral and surv are out there too
i find feral fun but it can be a bit weird
then uhdk the ones i know may not like how it plays but the dmg is there
coarse bolt
I got to 3k on my ret this season and have found it kind of enjoyable. leveraging the utility side of the spec to the best of my ability feels meaningful
now getting people to keybind that stuff is a whole fucking other thing
alpine wraith
as rogue you can vanish after everyone dies
to laugh at their corpses
big utility
bleak night
real
chrome palm
a car in the raid turned around to look at me in stealth and killed me
coarse bolt
i don't think most people are aware of atrophic or numbing which is kinda weird
or something like blackjack
and 1 hr tricks is cool to me but probably not many others
aoe silence on every pack is pretty dope too
alpine wraith
the thing is atrophic and mind numbing are good
but as defensive buffs they are prime expendable
keen dome
a car in the raid turned around to look at me in stealth and killed me
This is always very funny
The little flame jets in workshop do the same 'cos they're mobs.
coarse bolt
the jets after the 2nd boss?
keen dome
Yep
coarse bolt
huh
chrome palm
omfg those jets man
keen dome
They're mobs, which is why they can turn and look at you in stealth
And then shoot fire in random directions lol
coarse bolt
i always assumed that was just a sequence
chrome palm
getting 90 degree quickscoped
and when you try to explain to your group
they think youre schizo
coarse bolt
and now that i think about it yeah....
keen dome
They used to be thing on the wall and static, but either this season or the last time it was put into M+, they became mobs
I assume because it makes it possible to scale the damage they do
worn ivy
Bring back
tepid trellis
what in the fuck will bringing back deadly throw do LOL
bleak night
coarse bolt
now that i squinted at that formula
worn ivy
coarse bolt
more specifically how many vers/mas specs are there?
worn ivy
Omg imagine this
tepid trellis
NO MORE FUCKING CLONES
tepid trellis
you want that fucker to fall down into 1st boss rookery as well?
coarse bolt
I would love for killing spree to be fucking clones or something
anything other than what it is
keen dome
you want that fucker to fall down into 1st boss rookery as well?
Maybe if we fill the hole with clones the SecTec guys can walk over and hit the boss.
tepid trellis
like reflection was actually dumber than SEF
that fucker had no idea where he was going
at any time
alpine wraith
shadowy was very krangled
was very good in pvp but in pve you litearlly pressed it and ignored it
keen dome
I would love for killing spree to be fucking clones or something
But you know, if they did this.. The clones would have HP. And you'd watch them spawn in and immediately get vaporized by something.
coarse bolt
fair
keen dome
Actually that could be really funny.
"Why is your damage so bad?" "My shadow clones ate the tank frontal"
coarse bolt
my other thought was it to function like fel barrage
where you tokyo drift around in control while it shits out clone hits
keen dome
Hell yeah
coarse bolt
instead of literally being suicidal
worn ivy
When ?????
keen dome
They could do a lot to killing spree to make it better. That, make it a damage buff cooldown, make it like blade dance, etc.
tepid trellis
lil bro speed running the most bugged abilities list
keen dome
When ?????
Right now
coarse bolt
at least Tomb DFA I did big setup for 1 hit instead of having to interact with it fucking constantly
stone hemlock
I see sub under aug in raid <.< Is it decent in m+?
worn ivy
coarse bolt
nightblade was best with that tier set that made its duration 1000 years
keen dome
I see sub under aug in raid <.< Is it decent in m+?
What level do you play at in M+? 'Cos that matters for a good answer.
coarse bolt
woof on that lashga
alpine wraith
did you know something funny about nighthold tier set
coarse bolt
thats the one i mentioned
alpine wraith
it was so good if you titanforged it you could run 2 2 with antorus
just because of nightblade duration
completely skipping tomb
coarse bolt
it felt fucking terrible losing it
worn ivy
Do you guys remember old shuriken toss ??
worn ivy
It was fast af
stone hemlock
What level do you play at in M+? 'Cos that matters for a good answer.
14s 15s,i understand its low but i still wanna do damage!
keen dome
14s 15s,i understand its low but i still wanna do damage!
Probably better playing Assa at that level, I think? Sub might be able to compete but probably falls off pretty hard with the other stronger classes.
Although if you enjoy Sub then just play Sub and be the best Sub rogue you can be.
coarse bolt
if you are on average running 14/15 you know the answer to that question and what your niche is no?
stone hemlock
was wondering when i saw the horrid raid performance
i dont really know sub and tired of alting assass form prev patches
my niche is funnel and st (arcane and enh)
worn ivy
keen dome
Give it a go and see how you like it. Just turn details off if you are in a group with an UHDK or something.
coarse bolt
encounter design plays a huge part in the context of those graphs as does 100 other things
stone hemlock
sub has funnel?
worn ivy
I can prove envenom doing more damage than eviscrate
coarse bolt
Lash throw knife or what sin had at least refreshed poisons did shuriken toss do anything else?
I cant remember
worn ivy
Yea
alpine wraith
envenom does not do more dmg than evis on average problem is evis is cuck split
my 18m evis
getting split in 6 hits from coup
AAAAAAAAAA
keen dome
They fear our power
coarse bolt
Am i mixing up toss with another ability like sub and sin get basically a "ranged pull" ability that wasnt terribly rotationally significant
got
coarse bolt
yeah i can never remember, i may have forgot more than i will ever know
cloud rover
lil bro speed running the most bugged abilities list
Bugged from Above
worn ivy
Btw i just realized there is logs for dungeons
But i think its cringe
Because your overall will always depends on in how many pulls you finish the dungeon
Also this is wrong
keen dome
Also the group composition, too.
keen dome
There's way more variables that make damage logs pretty useless
worn ivy
Ive 99
In
Dfc
But no
Impossible
In pretty sure that one is 100%
how they calculate
Parses in
keen dome
Isn't that not off damage, just off score?
worn ivy
M+ ?
keen dome
If you click in, I'm pretty sure it'll just be off M+ score and has nothing to do with damage.
worn ivy
What is this key
Icin on top right
Gives me 3 options
Look
This is different
Why ?
Says 66 avarage
63
I still dont underatand how this works
I opened it loook
Ive 4:30 min left on 17
I dunno it says parses 2
Whats that mean
keen dome
That there are two parses
keen dome
If you only have two parses to compare, one will be the best, and one will be the worst. So one will be 100, the other will be 0.
keen dome
But I'm not sure how it's doing it for M+, and I assume it's more than just damage and is probably some mixture of damage + M+ score and time.
There's probably something on the site explaining it but M+ logs are whatever.
Way too many variables to be remotely useful
worn ivy
Yes its cringe
Probably
I see some people asking if someone logged
Right after dungeon
I still belive next week gonna be some class tunning
Sub might get some buffs and bug fixes
Im not expecting insane aoe buff but it will be decent ST buff
Fingers crossed 🙏
bleak night
keen dome
We can hope.
worn ivy
Copium
I swear out of all 3 specs sub is the most fun
Played asaa in oab progress
Hated every single moment of it
Playing sublety in mugzee
Probably less boss damage but its still ok
dry plank
Sub sucks in this raid
worn ivy
Was good week 1-2
I dunno what happend after
Whats the main reason subtlety scaling bad with gear ?
alpine wraith
well it did not scale bad with gear just others got more from it
they nerfed all of our power multipliers
and just buffed baseline
and even that buff was a nerf in the end
so rip
haughty mural
I dunno what happend after
I mean we all knew we would drop hard
Reason we started strong were the baseline buffs back then
But then we also got nerfs, e.g. to set
Made it pretty foreseeable that if everyone catches up on gear and their sets we will fall
So it really wasn’t that surprising imo
worn ivy
Bro everytime i see 8 stacks and coupe ready and ive no dance no sumboyls im just rupturing i cannot risk 8 stacks + coupe outside of dance it does not feel right.
bleak night
i mean it wasnt even gear its just literally everyone else just got buffed lmao
sub too stealthy for its own good
haughty mural
And that ofc
bleak night
one of you pissed off ion
alpine wraith
i mean not everyone was here when we knew
how it would go joever after second set of tier nerfs
then the funny baseline buff
haughty mural
Yes right
worn ivy
https://youtu.be/qm_YpMZaUoI?si=phUMhFA5kWh3UjAS the old shadow stroke animation actually pog
When you enter in a stealth there was some purple animation on you what was it actually
keen dome
Probably Master Assassin
coarse bolt
@worn ivy i feel like I had a very similar experience that you did.
trail ginkgo
Did we get nerfed? I feel my dps is way lower than the assasin rogue jn our guild? Or did ass get buffed?
keen dome
Assa got buffed earlier, in the patch but we got nerfed and our tier-set split in half back before the patch went live. We peaked in the first few weeks.
And have stagnated since. Everyone else has continued to rise.
coarse bolt
I am presented with 3 options at the start and the majority of the enounter designs really didnt resonate well over time with sub IMO vs other options
trail ginkgo
I dont mind being a little lower than the other rogue, but yesterday was something else. Gonna recraft everything then
coarse bolt
everyone quite literally scaled up on all gear and potentially got major improvements between dinar and vault in a way we dont really ever see
alpine wraith
sub would have been better without tier set nerf
we would have our niche
now we have nothing
and well numbers were kinda fine but then a lot of specs got buffed
bleak night
keen dome
Maybe we get a cheeky 4% aura buff
alpine wraith
4% would be enough kinda yea
keen dome
Maybe a 6% to be safe but I imagine it'd be 4%.
I don't think we need much.
Just put us in the middle of the pack and be competiive in the ST niche
rocky ocean
alpine wraith
another 20% to bp
and buff DS 10%
so now can use bp on st
like it was meant to be
cloud rover
TRUE
keen dome
lmao
I wonder how long it'd stay like that if they actually did it.
A week? A month? of Sub's using BP and nothing else
short radish
Bro everytime i see 8 stacks and coupe ready and ive no dance no sumboyls im jus...
i do that. feels super 
but it also feels right. your damage outside of dance is so shit anyway whats the difference between one less evis cast
keen dome
Wel, you would. Me? I'm bult different (wrong)
short radish
well i mainly do it before going into flag/blades
cloud rover
I just press Buttons
short radish
standard dances are a bit whatever
short radish
based
merry agate
Looks at Tier Stacks
"Just one more evis before flag/blades... its only 15%...
Im bout to puuuuump."
hollow spear
That would have been true before tier set nerfs
hollow spear
Now it feels bad but not as consequential
alpine wraith
it does not feel bad you dont even notice
worn ivy
Do i ever play arround tierset + coupe or just keep sending them naked ?
alpine wraith
you can crit 2 evis more in dance
you will do more dmg than if you had 8 stack the whole dance
alpine wraith
and didnt crit those 2 evis
pallid prawn
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
merry agate
Well, I don't even show the buff
Probably the smart move to make 😒
haughty rose
how can i add winning streak buff to my weakaura? i can't find it in premade aura buffs
cloud rover
you can crit 2 evis more in dance
How about low Stacks and no crit?
haughty rose
<https://wago.io/wz8idaNiO>
oh nice. thanks
limpid sage
alpine wraith
you dont want to know
it happens quite often
but the impact is not huge
because tier set is wang
keen dome
because tier set is wang
Numberwang
vestal escarp
We back to the crit in flag matters most narrative
alpine wraith
just crit dog
and remember to also roll high on the default 5% variance
welcome to bfa
formal helm
welcome to bfa
ye legit bfa, we even get corruptions! 
is void ritual the way to go for sub?
alpine wraith
yea others are a bit closer or better in st
but void ritual is better with more targets
formal helm
ugh. don't like void ritual but if it sims better we go it
enough shit is already stacked against us
have to squeeze out every dps we can 
alpine wraith
echoing void might be better full st
but they are all closeish
think there were strings to sim in #tc-research
in case you are lazy :
profileset."Head_Twilight_Devastation_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7912
profileset."Head_Twilight_Devastation_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7914
profileset."Head_Gushing_Wound_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7925
profileset."Head_Gushing_Wound_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7927
profileset."Head_Void_Ritual_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7931
profileset."Head_Void_Ritual_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7933
profileset."Head_Echoing_Void_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7915
profileset."Head_Echoing_Void_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7917
profileset."Head_Infinite_Stars_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7922
profileset."Head_Infinite_Stars_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7924
profileset."Head_Twisted_Appendage_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7928
profileset."Head_Twisted_Appendage_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7930
tribal blade
i'm gonna be real, i kinda miss borrowed power that gave a lot of power
alpine wraith
im gonna be even realer peak power was wod brutalizing bosses in 1 min
tribal blade
this piddly stuff is kinda lame
alpine wraith
here first week kill timers are 5 min
then end of the patch they are not even 3 mins unless you degencomp
like 1 tank 1 heal etc
lilac stag
think there were strings to sim in <#266712108861751296>
They’re on raidbots
alpine wraith
ah ok i dont really use raidbots a lot except on some situations
lilac stag
They got added this reset
tribal blade
man when we do our first reclear after killing gally
the raid is gonna flop over lol
alpine wraith
depends on how many new trials you have
we clowned a bit on sprocket and oab
i dislike the new oab strat
tribal blade
oh shit you're right
alpine wraith
i miss blasting the adds
tribal blade
we're gonna have to get benched people the kills
alpine wraith
forever blue parse now
tribal blade
yeah we're gonna have to reprog lol
tribal blade
forever blue parse now
the full ST strat?
formal helm
dw, aug can take over
tribal blade
oh i forgot to ask, is there a catch up system with the raid rep
like if i miss a week of rep
formal helm
ye, seems to be echoing void for st, albeit barely
formal helm
oh i forgot to ask, is there a catch up system with the raid rep
yeh
you just get a bit more rep basically
tribal blade
ok cool
formal helm
should be enough to clear once or 2x to catch up
alpine wraith
you can do lfr with any alt
formal helm
oh ye
alpine wraith
i kinda did it with alts because rogue didnt need anything from hc anymore
formal helm
that too
mystic bough
i kinda did it with alts because rogue didnt need anything from hc anymore
So you could finally play a better class? Something like aug evoker? 
mystic bough
I aint going to do lie I'm a pretty casual player but when I joined a random mythic raid pug and I parsed a 85% and was at the second of the meters I was like huh, not bad. only to find out all the other players had gray parses and still almost outdamaged me 
alpine wraith
ahahaha
tribal blade
is it time for the daily "surely they buff sub soon"
because i just thought that
i hate it how blizz is living in my head rent free
alpine wraith
nah that is lashga daily and he already completed it
tribal blade
haha true
formal helm
is it time for the daily "surely they buff sub soon"
They'll buff shuriken storm / tornado and bp
Ez
Solves all our problems
north schooner
they just hotfixed a 2% backstab buff and 50% for fatal intent
alpine wraith
tbh i would not even be mad if they made tornado a real cd
tribal blade
They'll buff shuriken storm / tornado and bp
WELL they could revert storm energy cost back to 35
which would be dope
alpine wraith
fatal intent needs 5000%
formal helm
also btw goremaw still does not flurry
I forgot that talent exists.
tribal blade
fatal intent is absolutely useless
alpine wraith
it also stops stacking at 30%
tribal blade
i was literally just looking at my mugzee kill
formal helm
WELL they could revert storm energy cost back to 35
Just reduce energy costs in general
tribal blade
alpine wraith
actually no make backstab cost 60 energy again
so people feel the weight
of their presses
tribal blade
that's like ambush/mutilate with vicous venoms talented
formal helm
I press it once, go downstairs, eat, shower, brush teeth and I still don't have enough energy for 2nd one
tribal blade
but without the 300 energy pool 🙂
formal helm
By the time 2nd backstab would be up you'd already have shadow blades back again
tribal blade
our cdr would drop off a cliff with 60 energy stab
formal helm
But the amount of dmg it does is so insignificant you wouldn't even notice it
hazy breach
Not really
formal helm
our cdr would drop off a cliff with 60 energy stab
It fell off a long time ago
hazy breach
The vast majority of the cdr comes from dances
tribal blade
fair enough
hazy breach
And just time passing so the cooldown goes down
alpine wraith
we would storm instead
formal helm
Pog
alpine wraith
kekw
like we already do when sprocket or bandit
are fuckers and need to be in front
formal helm
Just delete backstab man
tribal blade
i actually swapped to sin for locken just because of the FW bullshit
i was getting so tilted
alpine wraith
i mean it used to hit decently hard
but those were days when FW no FW made even more of a diff
formal helm
i mean it used to hit decently hard
Ye and my grandma was once young
alpine wraith
but you didnt expect to have FW up unless you haD SoO set
well it has only been like 13 years !
alpine wraith
FW and shadowed need to get sepsis'd
formal helm
Fuck fw and fuck backstab
alpine wraith
formal helm
That too
tribal blade
just make FW applied from stealth abilities only on your main target
bring it back full circle to what it was originally
alpine wraith
but yea as expected echoing void is around 0.4% or so ahead of ritual https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bDnYg95a2obyWt2zgfmQxh
and gushing is almost on par with echoing
i guess corruptions are omegawhatever
but the belt seems stronger
hazy breach
Tbh i think sub plays really well right now, just some minor annoyances with fw and either lower or increase cdr and its bangin
alpine wraith
maybe they saw the stellar reviews of shadowlands S2
and wanted to repeat it
kek
formal helm
Tbh i think sub plays really well right now, just some minor annoyances with fw ...
Yes
alpine wraith
the belt seems ok but nothing that wont be replaced by new gear in hc
formal helm
But hitting like a wet noodle is so shite.
tribal blade
oh i thought we were getting corruptions this tier
alpine wraith
well we dont really hit low just others got buffed and we got ignored
hazy breach
But hitting like a wet noodle is so shite.
Idk i think its fine, burst makes up for it
alpine wraith
yea we are getting them next week
formal helm
Where can we see stuff about belt?
Didn't see any info on it yet
alpine wraith
it has some generic things it is on the 11.1.7 post
tribal blade
omfg i read "S2" and then thought we were in S1
formal helm
omfg i read "S2" and then thought we were in S1
Same brother
tribal blade
i think my brain is coping
alpine wraith
ansurek was funny
formal helm
Idk i think its fine, burst makes up for it
burst is good, yes
but idk, still feels lackluster
esp, as many have stated, when you do decent parsing and end up being beat by a ret pala with a 2 parse.
tribal blade
btw i think i spoiled my push group, i started running iron wire
and they said "yeah you're never untalenting that again"
alpine wraith
wired
formal helm
i saw moonkin bursting for 11m and me doing 7.5
my deva and feral do that much too..
alpine wraith
well it is more than 11m because if it appears like that on logs
and those are over 4-5mins
we are cooked
formal helm
yep.
oh well
doesn't really change anything
I won't switch off of sub as long as I play wow
twilit phoenix
buffs next reset for sure this time
merry agate
tribal blade
this reminds me of DF S3
when we were fullly expecting them to buff BP
and it took 3 seasons to happen
tribal blade
exactly on time to make sub mediocre in keys 🙂
twilit phoenix
if they buff us soon enough, we'll have enough juice to overperform in season 3 pre-season content
to be subsequently nerfed again week one
graceful osprey
buffs next reset for sure this time
Blizzard probably: reduce all ability damage by 15%
brave moth
Are numbing and Atrophic poisons stacking ?
hazy breach
Yes, atrophic stacks with itself too
lilac stag
omfg i read "S2" and then thought we were in S1
Dude I already hate OAB
Range 1 by 1 figuring out they have to bait blast and that it’s a private aura. 
twilit phoenix
Week 1 is too much
yeah ur right
post season 2; pre season 3 nerfs
just that sweet spot where we can't enjoy any real content
brave moth
Sub rogue will do 10% more dmg in preseason smh and we will get nerfed by then
I mean we are perfectly balanced doing the least dmg smh
merry agate
Now we're talking!
Are you bois ready to play PV backstab build when they buff builders next week? 
merry agate
brave moth
I am more likely to got feral or surv hunt
keen dome
In a random +10 I just did but lol:
Maybe this is why we aren't getting buffed. Maybe they only look at 10's and most people are bad in there
alpine wraith
dont worry the 12s i did i was also doing decent dmg
then i did some with gildies
lets not talk about those
haughty rose
Maybe this is why we aren't getting buffed. Maybe they only look at 10's and mos...
nono we don't get buffed because i did 20m dps on prioress with the 8 trash mobs left and right to her yesterday 😎
i didn't even use BP
keen dome
then i did some with gildies
man I somehow got into a group with one the Rank 1 Warlock on my realm
She casually did like, 2x my overall and was hitting 30m+ on most packs. Just wild lmao
alpine wraith
yea i do 20m in cinder at most
keen dome
Bouncing between REALLY good players and random pugs is extremely funny
alpine wraith
some people doing way more
yea crest farm goes hard
i did everything on wednesday to get the big bois
keen dome
I'm just slamming it with a tank buddy who knows how to play
So I get the perfect pull sizes
tribal blade
Range 1 by 1 figuring out they have to bait blast and that it’s a private aura. ...
hahaaaa classic
twilit phoenix
I'm just slamming it with a tank buddy who knows how to play
imagine saying these two sentences to a non wow player
tribal blade
yep you're gonna find a lot of the prog will be on the shoulders of the ranged
keen dome
Hahaha
twilit phoenix
tribal blade
learning how to not int
ashen dock
why is this a thing
haughty rose
imagine saying these two sentences to a non wow player
anal rupture
twilit phoenix
why is this a thing
s3 tierset will be based around goremaw's bite
ashen dock
please god no
tribal blade
it did actual damage in legion, they just forgot to make it do dmg now
tribal blade
bringing back shadow reflection is just begging to give us more bugs
alpine wraith
shadowy reflection was not it unless you did pvp
north schooner
they should change the shadow clones to shadow clowns instead tbh, it seems more appropriate now
alpine wraith
then it was very silly
lilac stag
yep you're gonna find a lot of the prog will be on the shoulders of the ranged
the rogue knows it’s a private aura. The range. Does not. CLASSIC
north schooner
sectec could summon 2 clowns to honk at your target really loudly
tribal blade
the rogue knows it’s a private aura. The range. Does not. CLASSIC
i think you guys will still zoom through bandit prog, with the turbo boost and the huge nerfs nobody should be dying on the fight anymore
or much less