subtlety

[tribal blade]

i enjoyed that

[cloud rover]

Could be that too

which mad it to 40 seconds

Memory is not a realiable tool

[tribal blade]

yeah i ran obe+dust on outlaw for the last part of SL

[cloud rover]

But i remember it being ready very often

[tribal blade]

you could legit press flag at any point in a pull

it didn't matter

so much cdr

[cloud rover]

Tbh

it was also the only CD Sub had

because Blades were kinda poop

back then

[haughty rose]

can it do complex macros?

[cloud rover]

[tame stone]

is anyone playing with 1 point in Finality in their raid single target build? and if so, do you use 1 more eviscerate b4 rupture in your opener? or how do you play it

[short radish]

dont think about finality

[remote shuttle]

Until they add ST and Coup 😂

[remote shuttle]

Think u can't play around that cuz number of finishers under SD depends on back to back procs

[hazy breach]

Coup is affected by finality

[remote shuttle]

Really? Thought wasn't

Was it from the beginning? Or fixed after?

[hazy breach]

But in a way you wouldnt really expect. the 2 secondary hits are always buffed regardless of wether you have finality when casting or not

Its only the first 1/4 of coup that can be outside of finality

[hazy breach]

Always was, just in a different scuffed way

[remote shuttle]

Ah ty bud think i misunderstood so, ST still not buffed btw ye

[remote shuttle]

You think is worth playing finality due to this?

[tame stone]

i sim 2,486m single target with the rotten and 2,494 m without rotten and 1/2 finality

so i wanna know

how you play it

[hazy breach]

You dont play around it

You talent into it

And forget it exists

[tame stone]

kek

[tribal blade]

oh nice

[remote shuttle]

So u remove rotten?

[tribal blade]

so no more refreshing rupture right before dance with finality rupture

[tribal blade]

yes

[tame stone]

feels wrong, since 0 of your eviscerates in burst will be buffed

[hazy breach]

What

[tribal blade]

uh

[remote shuttle]

This is why sub is best spec... We have best ppl in discord class

[tame stone]

or?

[hazy breach]

Every other eviscerate is buffed

[tribal blade]

it would be every other evis is buffed

[tame stone]

i thought it locks out

the other finalities

[hazy breach]

No

[tame stone]

im gonna go make 2nd coffee

[merry umbra]

i find if 1st coffee didn't work, it's just gonna be a bad day

[tribal blade]

press finisher > get finality buff > next finisher is buffed > cycle begins again

[tame stone]

1st coffee kinda worked

[remote shuttle]

No way to talent the second point in finality wo losing dps i guess?

[tame stone]

abusing early ilv upgrades

[hazy breach]

Nope, just talent 1 finality like the guides say

[remote shuttle]

Will try today, ty bud

[tribal blade]

the joy of playing sub is we are very locked into our talents

not much wiggle room

[remote shuttle]

And bugged talents 🤣

[tribal blade]

everything is bugged on sub

[tame stone]

even the patch notes are bugged, wtb some sub love

[remote shuttle]

At least replicating shadows is no more 😜

[hazy breach]

Atleast the shadowcraft refund bug on replicating shadows is no more*

[tribal blade]

ok i'm starting gally prog, do i play sub or sin

[vestal escarp]

[void ocean]

still no Sub retro

[tribal blade]

i know, it's kinda like asking do i drive the blue dump truck or the red dump truck

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-smile-point-laughing-look-at-this-guy-gif-16682774

[keen dome]

Brann has decided to introduce a new, fun bug today. He's left the instance, and refuses to come back. He's just gone.

[tribal blade]

lol that's actually good

[tame stone]

sounds like a rogue buff to delves

[tribal blade]

no brann to int stuff

IT CAN'T END LIKE THIS

[void ocean]

damn had the same issue and fixed it somehow, cant remember how... u died, didnt u

[keen dome]

No! Surprisingly

He just.. left. Middle of combat I got the Brann has left the instance message

and he hasn't come back lmao

I'm super curious what's gonna happen at the treasure room door

[fallow nimbus]

It's the weekly +10 experience, now for solo delves

[keen dome]

One of my Bioprints is him. So I assume he's.. somewhere

Just not working

[alpine wraith]

wife called

unlucku

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-spongebob-season-6-truth-or-square-spongebob-truth-or-square-gif-14618301320258983224

[slate marlin]

you didnt do the mdi skip strat on a delve so he left

Deserved imo

[tribal blade]

HELL no

[cloud rover]

Sin

Prophet

[keen dome]

He has turned up: I walked into the boss room in Earthcralw Mines and he ran through a wall into the boss, then over to me as if nothing happened.

[tribal blade]

my RL said he wants add damage because the boss is gonna melt

[slate marlin]

Lmfao brann paid for a boost

[tribal blade]

but i suspect they're gonna die fast with turbo boost ilvls

[cloud rover]

Bro

Those in P1 died instantly

even before the turbo boost

for us

[lilac stag]

whet do you think splatter is?

[tribal blade]

ah ok, yeah no need then

[void hound]

just 4fun game it

[cloud rover]

and intermission ads will die omega fast

[tribal blade]

not as effective as dance with sub 😦

[cloud rover]

But execute dmg

Higher Number = Better

[tribal blade]

yeah sounds like a plan

[keen dome]

thanks Brann, you really helped.

[cloud rover]

Look at boos dmg

for gally

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-serious-stare-gif-11979677

[cloud rover]

its like a 200K difference

between Sin and sub

[shy ermine]

sin felt really comfortable and strong for the fight

[tribal blade]

WELL LOOKS LIKE I'M PLAYING SIN

[short radish]

the only add damage that matters is the first add tbh

[shy ermine]

sucks but is what it is

[tribal blade]

the super charged one or w/e it's called yeah

[cloud rover]

Also

[lilac stag]

How many pulls was mugs?

[cloud rover]

Timings are cringe for Sub

you either send cds instant

and get blaze

or you hold for after blaze

(also cringe)

[tribal blade]

i think we had roughly 100

it was way easier for my guild than bandit

[lilac stag]

I’m curious how OAB goes tonight

[short radish]

i think bandit is harder than m ugzee

[tribal blade]

oh thats good to know

[lilac stag]

we have no melee

[short radish]

really? i felt timings were really comfy for sub

dance for every add set

only cringe was holding flag/blade for 4min instead of at 3min

[cloud rover]

Well yeah thats definitely

[tribal blade]

it'll for sure go way smoother than what my guild did because they massively nerfed it

but it's a tricky fight

there's a lot going on

[cloud rover]

But P1 both sets are on Blaze timing

[short radish]

oh right that one

yeah i held for like 5 seconds

as a just in case

[cloud rover]

ye

[short radish]

but it kinda doesnt matter anyway

because you hold 3min to use at 4min

so whether you cast 1:30 or 1:40

its who cares

[cloud rover]

OR

I play sin

[tribal blade]

but if you have no melee on bandit that automatically takes away a big chunk of what makes that boss hard

[cloud rover]

and have CDs at 4 Min anyways

[short radish]

[cloud rover]

[tribal blade]

nobody to run into fixate adds

[lilac stag]

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

plus melee are passenger princesses on reel assistant dmg

[lilac stag]

Let me do a head count. One sec

[cloud rover]

only thing that changes

No speed shorud at pull for the cratering

i predict atleast 2 Deaths because of this

"Im feeling slower than usual"

[tribal blade]

LOL the one time speed shroud is actually useful on a boss fight

that's hilarious

didn't think of that

[cloud rover]

well there is a wind rush anyways

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade we had 5 on locken (inc healer). 6 if our DH is havoc.

[tribal blade]

sounds like you guys will have a good time on bandit

[lilac stag]

idk if our monk will be back or not

so maybe 7

[tribal blade]

actually i dunno, the ranged were the biggest reason why my guild's prog went badly lol

[lilac stag]

typical

[cloud rover]

Let me guess

Interrupting issue

Ranges and interrupting

[lilac stag]

bait drills… 3 days later wtf are drills not being baited?

[tribal blade]

yes that

and also them dying non stop

dropping stuff in the wrong places

[lilac stag]

I legit asked am I going to need to kill ranged adds and cry doing sub dos? Or can I stay on boss.

[tribal blade]

there was a lot of panicking from 1 of our mages "HELPINTERR" and then boom we all get knocked back

[lilac stag]

we shall see if I have to swap to dance dance range add revolution

[short radish]

tbh my favorite part of gally

is seeing all the stupid ranged prepullers die

[tribal blade]

the best part about playing sub on bandit is you blow up the adds when your 2nd cd set comes back up

[tribal blade]

HAHA bro i have a feeling we'll have at least 10-15 wipes from just that

until my RL puts down an ultimatum

he already said prepulling hard banned

[cloud rover]

Our does

and a Warlock got benched

for prog

[short radish]

it wont stop them

[cloud rover]

because of that

[short radish]

[cloud rover]

and since that

[tribal blade]

holy shit actually benched

[cloud rover]

people stopped it

[tribal blade]

just because you wanted to do slightly more damage

[cloud rover]

he died two times because of this

and still precasted after that

[keen dome]

I loved this on Fyrakk

[lilac stag]

don’t put an ultimatum down if you’re not going to enforce it

[cloud rover]

Our warlock found out

[lilac stag]

good

Fuck dem kids

[keen dome]

People who prepull like that are frustrating

Back on Fyrakk, my casual little guild had a boomkin who would aggresively do it constantly. He died so many times on Fyrakk lmao

[tribal blade]

it's particularly bad for melee

because sometimes it fucks up our positioning

[keen dome]

Yeah

[short radish]

yup

but melee have it so easy amirite

[tribal blade]

like on a boss like ansurek or something

[keen dome]

Also making people have to take that split second to adjust and go can be really difficult. Just throws the mental flow

[cloud rover]

Or a melee gets melee hitted

Because melees start hitting as soon as the boss moves

and tanks are slowpokes

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[keen dome]

Haha yeah

[short radish]

i wonder what the difference between someone casting when the boss is pulled rather than precasting

how much that acutally impacts dps

[keen dome]

Probably negliable

I would be willing to be that casting at 1s to pull or 1s after pull is a negliable difference if everything else is the same otherwise

Since it's probably, at best, one single cast

[cloud rover]

If timers are weird

i get that it might make a diffrence

[tribal blade]

yeah i was gonna say too

[keen dome]

But so would crit variance

[tribal blade]

if you're rushing to make some weird cutoff of time

that could be big

[cloud rover]

But thats really rare

[keen dome]

Also, crit variance!

[tribal blade]

it's usually something cdr related

like on some bosses if i fucked up on pull i would notice midway through the fight my cdr was off

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

or my flag+blades would be like 2-3 seconds off where they usually are coming off cd

but those 3 seconds you're losing to some burn, like on tindral

[cloud rover]

But Gallywix

[tribal blade]

nothing better than landing after flying intermission on tindral and your cds are just slightly off being ready

[cloud rover]

isnt a boss like this

Ranges cant properly cast anyways

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure

[cloud rover]

with laser circle

[fallow nimbus]

Your guild spawns adds?

[tribal blade]

we did yeah

[fallow nimbus]

We play a shit full st coin order

[tribal blade]

damn 😦

[fallow nimbus]

Wait, we did spawn the cc able adds that get stunned and tossed around so no melee can cleave them

I've never seen a boss downgrade this much when the dmg stop is out

[cloud rover]

Well we did too

But it was before the last nerf

and we did 4 heal

so we didnt had to dmg stop anyways

4 Heal was really comfy

even tho it wasnt done very often

[tribal blade]

that last nerf pass to bandit was insane

made the boss way more playable

[cloud rover]

We killed him afte rthe first nerf

Which was 10% add health

i think

and we decided to go on 4 heal

[brittle plinth]

If I still have pvp trinket, dinar priority should be heroic hoc ya?

[tribal blade]

yes

[brittle plinth]

Appreciate you bud.

[limpid sage]

I'm gonna shit myself from pure rage

[wild hornet]

Welcome to world of warcraft

[alpine wraith]

dont worry it was always 50%

it is for you or not

[tribal blade]

that's crazy

dinar time 🙂

[lilac stag]

The game knew which spec was more worthy

[sacred yarrow]

even internal algorithm hates us

[hollow spear]

If it decided based on spec's worthiness, it would have rolled a 1

[limpid sage]

like at least roll higher

this is just rude

[tribal blade]

the game should really make the people who rolled the same roll again

it would probably feel less bad than just randomly losing the item for no apparent reason

[cloud rover]

Well it does

[tribal blade]

yeah, but it's not evident what's going on

[cloud rover]

Ye

[tribal blade]

it just looks like you rolled the same and the game just decided to give it to 1 person 😦

[keen dome]

yeah, it should just display it instead of doing it in the abckground

[cloud rover]

Just cut it in a half

[keen dome]

Like it hits two, times out, rolls it again

[cloud rover]

and give both a half

[keen dome]

Haha

Here's half a house of cards. You get half the deck, you get half the deck

aka: Myth HoC/ Both people get a hero one

[limpid sage]

duplicate the loot when tied

[keen dome]

oooh

that'd actually be brilliant

the ultimate good feeling

[limpid sage]

(this would mess with master loot though)

[tribal blade]

MMMMMMM that sounds possibly kinda too much

but interesting idea

[keen dome]

I don't think so since, in my mind, most people rolling are at heroic and lower.

But like. It'd just be a net positive for the game. Nobody loses. Comedy duplicate rolls both win.

Maybe the caveat is you can't trade the item

[limpid sage]

ye but you'd roll on the loot just for a chance to duplicate it on guild runs

[tribal blade]

how's this idea, put a currency in the game to buy loot similar to dinars where you acrue the currency every time you lose a roll in raid

[keen dome]

🙏

[tribal blade]

actually i dunno, sounds like something that could be fucked with

[limpid sage]

I wish you could buy dinars with the tokens of merit

[keen dome]

You can just get a currency from killing a boss and after 5 currency you can just buy the item

[tribal blade]

yeah that's a better idea

[keen dome]

That'd be my ideal way of doing it. basicaly, the dinar system we have now but not badly communicated and actual bad luck protection

In from the get-go. So by week 5 you can just buy deterministic items if you've had bad luck

[limpid sage]

3 weeks of shit vault = you can take a piece of your choice

[keen dome]

And it still requires rekilling / killing bosses to farm the currency

[keen dome]

Yeah that'd be a really good way 'cos you can make it work for all content.

way better

[tribal blade]

i like the idea of more bad luck protection in the game

[keen dome]

And just let it be from M+ or Raid, or even Delve.

I do not like how Blizz have done these dinars, but the actual system they've implemented is very good if it wasn't coming so late.

I very much hope we have this from week 1 in S3, so by the end of Week 4 of the raid, you can buy any item from a boss you've killed if you've been unlucky. So no people having no HoC after 2 - 3 months due to bad luck.

[tribal blade]

i think the way they've done dinars is ok considering they're trying to do it super conservative at first

and iterating on it more later

i assume

they're trying to avoid the situation of giving too much to people too quick from what i heard

[keen dome]

A lot of their argument about it is pretty stupid though.

[tribal blade]

i think it's fine that dinars are bad luck protection against bosses you've killed in raid

but the way it works between raid and M+ is weird for sure

[keen dome]

They don't want say, someone who only does LFR getting a Myth HoC as they will never replace it into S3. Except 1. Who cares and 2. They can buy a Heroic one and with turbo boost it's gonna go so high they won't replace it in S3 anyway so it's such a moot point.

But it goes into just bad balancing on trinkets this season more than anything else.

The core system is good.

Also, there's some big announcmeent today so I assume it's Sub buffs.

[limpid sage]

ye if they gated it behind having to pick tokens from vault 3x in a row, it'd combat the "giving away free loot" philosophy, while still feeling like you're progressing somewhat

would have to remove the "kill x boss on mythic" requirement though

else it'd feel poo

[keen dome]

I would like them to delete Mythic raid lockouts.

If I could join multiple groups, I'd absolutely be pugging my way through Mythic.

[swift tinsel]

plus, a person only doing lfr will never get a myth hoc bc if it was the old track system, they'd never get the crests

[cloud rover]

doubt

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely.

Their whole argument about why Mythic loot is gated off just doesn't stand up.

[swift tinsel]

need to do 12's to get myth track, even though 10's give myth vault

[keen dome]

Heroic raiding being the most unrewarding raid tier, too.

[swift tinsel]

nitpick, but reinforces their ideas being weird

[limpid sage]

[keen dome]

Although the increase of +2 levels on Hero items does fix that somewhat (but then it being gilded and not runed makes it less accesible)

[cloud rover]

Well its not anymore

[keen dome]

It's an interesting and confusing dynamic: If you only raid Heroic, it is unlikely you'll max out your gear because of, potentially, only having access to 30 gilded a week.

[cloud rover]

With increased Ilvl now

[keen dome]

Ye

[cloud rover]

Normal is kind of bad

Its always like that

1 Mode

[keen dome]

Yep

[cloud rover]

is completely irrelevant

Just delete Normal or LFR

and Cramp it together

[hazy breach]

Id be surprised if the 8/8 doesnt roll over into the next season

[keen dome]

Same

[hazy breach]

Presumably with runed being used for atleast one more upgrade, probably 2

[swift tinsel]

wasn't it originally 8 upgrade levels and they cut it down

[keen dome]

It was, yeah

Myth was 4

Wait, no. I think Hero was 6, Myth 4.

And then they aded more to Myth but kept hero as is?

[swift tinsel]

Idr its been a while and my brain is mush atm

[hazy breach]

We literally skipped doing heroic splits week 3 because people already had normal items (like tier)

And normal and hc were equivalent

[cloud rover]

Ye

[keen dome]

Yeah

[cloud rover]

And for Myth Prog

it doesnt make sense

to upgrade Hero Track beyond 658

[keen dome]

Personally, I'd like to see Hero remain as 8 (using runed to 6, then final two gilded is fine) and then Myth either goes back to 4 or 6. 6 probably more sensible.

So you have overlap.F irst two steps of Myth being Runed.

[hazy breach]

Ye so 665 being the stop for runed

[keen dome]

I think you'd end up with a cleaner power curve, and more loot accessibility.

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

I like that a lot actually

[hazy breach]

Or atleast 662, so youre not wasting crests

[cloud rover]

WEll isnt that

like 6 Hero and 4 Myth again

?

🙂

[keen dome]

Sure

I mean, I'd prefer Hero 6 Myth 4.

[cloud rover]

The Reason for thsi change btw was

That you were starved on Runed Crests

[limpid sage]

should I wait with using gilded crests till 675 in every slot if I have limited gametime?

[cloud rover]

and not GIlded

[limpid sage]

or is it pure alt catch up

[cloud rover]

So Runed Gatekept you for Mythic Items

rather the Gilded

[hazy breach]

No

You only get discount on items if you have higher ilvl in that specific slot on any character on your account

[swift tinsel]

meanwhile I felt I hit runed cap in a hearthbeat this season

[cloud rover]

and have the Achievement*

[hazy breach]

It doesnt make all upgrades cost 10

[swift tinsel]

week after week

[limpid sage]

ahhh true that's how it works

ty for reminding me

[keen dome]

I felt I hit gilded cap in a heartbeat too. I was 90 every week.

[cloud rover]

Thats also because you could farm 655 Items

which only needed 1 Runed upgrade

[swift tinsel]

and the game throws them at you like crazy if you do a few delves and heroic raid, plus low mythics

[keen dome]

This season has been way better for the general economy of earning stuff and upgrading. The major issue is Heroic and Normal / Hero items being functionally identical for a lot of people. Which, yeah: the Turboboost has addressed somewhat and could be a way to solve it overall.

[swift tinsel]

you can get runed crests early on so fast its crazy

[keen dome]

The change to M+ currency reward was very good, too.

[cloud rover]

Well it will again create the Situation auf 6 Hero and 4 Myth, which also wasnt a good one

Its hard to get a "Balanced" way

for this

[keen dome]

It is, yeah.

Still, this season has been a pretty good improvement on a few of these things. A step back to what worked so well in DF, imo.

[swift tinsel]

def agree about crest rewards per m+ level making things feel like less of a slog in that respect

[keen dome]

Yeah. Also them being easier in general.

It's relative, but M+ is a lot more accessible this season.

[cloud rover]

Now

Make the M+ vault

1/3/6

pls

[short aurora]

I mean the completed m+ statistic will giga rise this late into the season

[keen dome]

Extremely strong agreement.

[short aurora]

I'm waiting for the weekly graph to go giga stonks

[keen dome]

I would also like the raid to be 1/3/6 but uh that's just me being very lazy in Mythic pugging haha

I don't think 2/4/6 is bad at all for the raid. It's very flexible.

[cloud rover]

It was

[keen dome]

I can't remember when it was that. Vault?

[cloud rover]

Nathria i think

[keen dome]

Oh, yeah. Ages ago.

[cloud rover]

and got changed with SoD because it had more bosses

[keen dome]

Yeah

1/3/6 would be pretty good for Mythic pugging and weaker Mythic / AotC guilds 'cos you'd get a lot more value out of being able to kill one Mythic boss (I.e., tier) but I know that won't be a positive thought for some people.

I think it'd be good though.

[cloud rover]

always depends on the content

[keen dome]

Ye

[cloud rover]

Like this content 3 is easy doable

last was 4

[delicate wind]

I mean first two bosses in mythic are kind of a joke

[cloud rover]

Amidrassil was 3

[keen dome]

It was not easy to do 3 in Amirdrassil in pugs, haha

[cloud rover]

Idk could you Mythic pug Aberrus?

[cloud rover]

true

[keen dome]

First boss killed most pugs.

[cloud rover]

Weakaura on second boss

[keen dome]

It was doable but way harder than Vault.

[keen dome]

[cloud rover]

Ye Vault was easy

[keen dome]

Cauldron isn't hard but in a pug setting it's a pretty tough fight because of how long it is.

[delicate wind]

They should take away the raid lockout for mythic. Just do by boss but I guess then people could just get gigga carried. For someone who doesn’t have a way to raid a consistent schedule, I could get a lot more mythic bosses if that were the case

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely in agreement.

[delicate wind]

Instead I have to try to find a put that can do two bosses. I always just make sure they start cauldron

[keen dome]

Yep

[cloud rover]

Well doing that

would negate the game of

Do we extend or not

[keen dome]

I think that'd be a good thing, surely

[delicate wind]

Ya I see your point.

But also why exactly would it negate that?

Seems like a non pug thing

[cloud rover]

Because you could save the ID on an Alt

and reclear like the first 6

[keen dome]

You don't even need an alt.

[cloud rover]

skip mugzee

and prog Gally

as example

[delicate wind]

I mean I don’t see the real problem

You get to skip one boss and still get loot to prog the boss you’re on?

Just don’t open up lockouts til after the race

[cloud rover]

Also

People could sell their ID

and people can kill the endboss before

Killing Mugzee

to get the endboss loot

for example

[delicate wind]

People can still do that

You can buy a kill

[cloud rover]

Yes you can

But you are locked

for a week

But without lockout

[keen dome]

We had that this season where a group bought a lockout. I mean, it'd make it more evident but I don't think it should matter. It's going to impact less than 0.01% of the playerbase

[cloud rover]

you can buy and prog

[delicate wind]

You’re talking wild edge cases

[cloud rover]

Is it?

[delicate wind]

Yes it is

[cloud rover]

That would happen

100% times

and Mythic in general

is an edge case

in wow

[keen dome]

It'd make selling CE / boosts easier, sure. But it's not like anybody should care about that imo.

[cloud rover]

[delicate wind]

Ya after race happens who cares

Or open it up after the hall of fame is done

At the .5 patch

Like who cares after .5

[keen dome]

I'd rather it just be open after the race, but yeah I don't hate that as a compromise

Or just open from the get-go. Who cares, the race is unoffiical.

[swift tinsel]

and they're gonna do super degen shit regardless

[delicate wind]

Ya to the earlier point mythic is an outlier. Make it more accessible

[keen dome]

Yeah

[cloud rover]

Also

[delicate wind]

I have multiple cutting edge achievments but I don’t have the time to commit to 2-3 nights a week on a schedule.

[cloud rover]

Mythic Booster

[delicate wind]

Bosses aren’t that hard but I don’t even get a chance to do any of them in mythic

[cloud rover]

can boost multiple times

[short radish]

i care because i want to gatekeep my keys.

[cloud rover]

a week

[short radish]

people say "it doesnt affect you"

but it really does

[cloud rover]

that would devalue Mythic loot/achievements etc.

[delicate wind]

It doesn’t. You’re just a baby and don’t like change

🙂

[short radish]

well yes

[cloud rover]

Nice discussion

Invalidating my opinion

[short radish]

but also if someone has myth track raid gear

[sly shore]

THERE'S TWO THINGS I HATE

CHANGE AND THE WAY THINGS ARE

[short radish]

i can have higher expectations of them

[delicate wind]

I was replying to fimb

[short radish]

also there needs to be some point where gear isnt just free

otherwise it devalues the meaning of it

[swift tinsel]

if I've learned anything here its that you can buy rank 1 so nothing matters

[delicate wind]

I mean does myth track m+ gear make someone a better raider? Prob not

Same way mythic raid gear doesn’t make someone good at m+

[hazy breach]

Fwiw this season has very good trinket balance overall

Most trinkets are very close to each other

[delicate wind]

Gear is already “free”. Still have to kill bosses.

[short radish]

no it hasnt

???

[cloud rover]

Im honest i dont mind the Lockout on Mythic, so you have to decide

[short radish]

house of cards is omega bis for everything

[hazy breach]

Relative to pretty much every other tier yes

[keen dome]

Really? Like, if we remove HoC I could agree with you there.

[cloud rover]

and weigh advantages and disadvantages

[short radish]

🙂 yes you have to kill bosses

so go kill bosses and be eligible to acquire the loot

[keen dome]

or just buy them lol

[short radish]

yeah or just go buy them on heroic

and mald about 13 ilvls or something

[delicate wind]

If I could find a raid to do it on my random schedule bc life then I would.

[short radish]

L

get gatekept

[random mason]

Transmitter mythic still being 2nd best trinket is so bad

[keen dome]

I mean, just buy the kills.

[silver falcon]

Do we think Sub will get buffs in the next tuning guys?

[delicate wind]

Ya I mean lockouts are stopping me from being able to try mythic bosses

[keen dome]

It's such a pointless argument to care about gatekeeping when the only real gatekeeping is being able to spend real money.

[short radish]

no. don't hope

[delicate wind]

I don’t wanna buy bosses. Defeats the fun

[short radish]

that way you are only half disappointed

[short radish]

?????

but buying gear is okay

[delicate wind]

Wym buying gear? I never bought gear

[slate marlin]

the copium train for sub buffs has already left

[short radish]

that is the entire point of dinners

[swift tinsel]

I do off the AH sometimes

[delicate wind]

Idc if other people buy gear but that’s not fun for me

[short radish]

to buy gear with

wait

im so confused right now

[delicate wind]

Ya dinars are locked behind kills. I’m not trying to buy a kill for dinars

[short radish]

are you arguing for or against dinar

[delicate wind]

I want to actually do mythic bosses

I’m arguing against lockout

That’s it and that’s all

[short radish]

oh okay yeah carry on then

[delicate wind]

lol 🙂

[short radish]

fuck lockouts

that is a pointless gate

[keen dome]

Lockouts suck. Get rid of them and Mythic becomes vastly more accessible and a lot of the friction (esp with these Dinars) goes away

[short radish]

waaaa it prevents boosting

who the fuck cares

people are going to boost anyway

[keen dome]

It doesn't even prevent boosting

[delicate wind]

Ya that’s my only point. I just want to try some mythic bosses but my schedule doesn’t allow me to be sweaty consistently

[cloud rover]

Lockout, is another Dimension of Decision Making and tactic for Mythic

Like do we farm gear or do we extend for Bandit?

DO we need the Gear for Gallywix laterß

[sly shore]

clear the raid every week

problem solved

[hazy breach]

It does though, besides house of cards its pretty much just ilvl that decides your second trinket since theres unironically like 12 options that are all roughly the same on a standard 5 min sim

[cloud rover]

Stuff like that

[hazy breach]

Obviously kezan slightly better on longer fights etc

[cloud rover]

Im Sorry mister we raid 5 days a week, doesnt work for 2 day guilds

[sly shore]

I am in a 2 day guild

[cloud rover]

You werent for the most part right?

[sly shore]

I have been for this entire tier

and before I joined advance I was in a 2 day guild, the one I raid in now

and the guild I was in before that was 2 days

[delicate wind]

Still kind of the same issue. Not guaranteed to get gear even without the lockout? Even if you extend an alt then you have to use the time to get loot and not prog. Maybe you can do 3 boss instead of 5 and prog. Idk not that meaningful to me

[sly shore]

So from the start of Shadowlands to Aberrus I raided 2 days

[short radish]

2 day raiding gang gang rise up

[cloud rover]

But you could skip hard midtier bosses like that

[swift tinsel]

Tuesday Thursday babyyyyy

2 days, 2 hours a day

[cloud rover]

Ok your guild seems to be better at reclear than mine

we lost a half evening on rekilling Lockenstock

Because healers cant dodge

[delicate wind]

Absolutely.. there’s a chance you get some power ups for prog and save a little time. Grand scheme of things not that meaningful. Maybe one week faster on a kill.

[sly shore]

We lost most of an evening on early bosses too

last week

[hazy breach]

The play is to start reclear on bandit

[warm marlin]

we didnt even reclear locken

[cloud rover]

Well one week faster on kill, can make a difference of HoF or not

or 100 WR

[warm marlin]

extendo from sprocket to gally

[delicate wind]

Ya so open up lockouts after HOF. I already said that.

[cloud rover]

We Recleared till Bandit was down

[delicate wind]

Why we talking in circles

[cloud rover]

so we got Vault option for Bandit on most players

[hazy breach]

So that if you wipe too much the bosses you end up losing are the pissers like stix and locken

[cloud rover]

and we kept the same pace as other Guilds on our Realm who were our level

and had like 2 ilvl more than them

with that

[delicate wind]

Like you’re talking all these edge cases instead of having more players get to do mythic you want to make your life a little harder. Just choose the harder route. No one is stopping you.

I’d also like to play without having to have a set schedule like I’m working a second job. This game isn’t that hard or serious lol.

[cloud rover]

Tbh

[keen dome]

Doesn't the raid skip also undermine it anyway 'cos you can kill Vexie, skip to Bandit. No need to extend if you are on Bandit or farming it. I mean, it's whatever to me.

[cloud rover]

the main thing why most people dont raid myhtic

is the 20 people requirement

[short radish]

yeah

remove lockouts

[cloud rover]

not any lockout

[short radish]

let people sub in and out for shit

[delicate wind]

Lockouts solve that problem wym

[short radish]

well the 20 ppl requirement gets easier

[cloud rover]

Like if you could do 10 people mythic

[short radish]

when people can come in and out

[cloud rover]

it would be much easier

[delicate wind]

If your guild is 12 ppl and you put 8 each raid and can swap them

Then you are no longer locked out of mythic by that requirement

[short radish]

you can get mercs from other guilds as well

[cloud rover]

But you wont get any prog done

[delicate wind]

And ppl will join bc they don’t lose their lockout

Sure you will.

[short radish]

say youre a RWL guild that is missing 2 ppl

[keen dome]

It'd actually be able to pug people.

And pug into content

[worn ivy]

it turns out spreading FW on aoe is not that big

[sly shore]

I think you're forgetting the value of playing as a cohesive team if you replace half the raid every week

[cloud rover]

Ye

[delicate wind]

Sure you don’t progress as fast

[short radish]

you can get 2 ppl who know how to play the fight

[short radish]

we're not talking replacing half the raid

[delicate wind]

But at least you get to prog

[short radish]

we're talking filling in 1-2 people

[cloud rover]

Most raidbosses are designed that you are only as good as the weakest link

[swift tinsel]

we swap people in and out on prog bc of our roster size, including healers/tanks and its awful

[short radish]

it happens all the time

[cloud rover]

Beacause everyone can fuck up the boss

[delicate wind]

Not stuck on heroic reclear every week

[swift tinsel]

bc you have to partially re-prog every week

[delicate wind]

Ya I don’t disagree but I GET TO PROG

[short radish]

there's a difference between swapping random idiots out

[delicate wind]

That’s the point

[short radish]

and getting someone who knows teh fight in

[delicate wind]

Just let me get to prog

[short radish]

before that person would need to also have a geared alt

now they can just come on their main

that being said almost everyone and their monkey has a geared alt these days

[delicate wind]

Or say you get sat and another guild needs someone for the boss you’re sat on

Sub rogue back in the game

[short radish]

no

sub rogue is not back in teh game

[delicate wind]

Haha sub rogue no get invite

[keen dome]

sub rogue is the game

[delicate wind]

Hahaha

[short radish]

but yeah

[delicate wind]

But seriously it would allow people to kill a boss they are benched on

[short radish]

just make mythic lockouts work the same way as heroic lockouts

so you can still "extend" if you need

but remove all teh ID bullshit

[keen dome]

ye

[delicate wind]

And fwiw if people think it will mess up race of hof just open it up at .5

[hazy breach]

Blizzard have stated that the lockout is still there to encourage not pugging

[delicate wind]

That’s when most of these people want to do mythic anyways

[short radish]

more news at 7

blizzard is stupid

[hazy breach]

And some bosses like stix youll end up not being able to kill anyway if youre replacing a noticeable amount of your raid each week

[delicate wind]

I don’t understand encouraging not pugging.

[swift tinsel]

I think we swap 4

[keen dome]

They want Mythic to be this preistge content only a few people get to it. But it's just like.. Dumb. Bad for the game.

[short radish]

game needs more ways to make mythic accessible

[hazy breach]

Relative to playing with a good guild pugging is an AWFUL experience

[swift tinsel]

which is a mistake

[short radish]

mythic should be a "prestige content"

but it shouldnt have all these stupid barriers around it

you should be rewarded for clearing it

but you shouldnt be punished for attempting it

like if youre on an alt

and do a pug of it

[delicate wind]

I mean I’ve done both.. but now pugging is the only option so sorry blizzard that my life can’t revolve around your game. I end up cancelling my sub early every season bc what is there to do

[short radish]

and you kill first boss

[keen dome]

They want it inaccessible, though. I agree with you, but like. It's just nonsense gatekeeping by them.

[short radish]

then your group falls apart because toys are apparently impossible to do for ppl with singular digit braincells

[keen dome]

There is a lot of dissonance around how they've designed Mythic.

[short radish]

you are now punished for the entire week

ALSO ALSO

it gets rid of lockout stealing

fuck im still mad about that

[delicate wind]

And they lose money on subs when ppl can only do heroic and get bored and have full heroic gear and you have half a season left. Alright cancel sub and come back later

[hazy breach]

Like if theyre making it more accessible without changing the fights theyll just have a ton of people bashing their head against a wall they cant beat and have a frustrating experience

And if the change the fights to make em more accessible

[short radish]

good let them bash their heads against the wall

[hazy breach]

It cheapens the experience for everybody else

[delicate wind]

Yea who cares if they bash their heads. Their choice

[lilac stag]

Tossing 3 people in Stocken and ending up 3 healing took what should have been 1-3 pull sproken prog kill Tuesday to an entire raid night. Basically lost 2.5 hours on prog this tier.

[keen dome]

I don't think bashing their heads against the wall is a bad thing. Like, hitting content and it being too hard for you / your group is a thing that happens in all levels of content.

[cloud rover]

So many people will. Cry

Because of this

[keen dome]

It's just that the barrier to entry in Mythic is so, so much higher.

[short radish]

good let them cry

[delicate wind]

Who will cry?

[short radish]

they will cry about something anyway

[swift tinsel]

There should be content that isn't doable by everyone

as long as there's content they can

[delicate wind]

Sure but it should be accessible to try

[swift tinsel]

which there is

that's why first couple of bosses are generally easier

[short radish]

yeah which is mythic raiding. Don't make it easier to complete, just make it easier to access.

[keen dome]

They fundamentally have this in M+, too.

[delicate wind]

None of these arguments actually are against removing lockouts. They are just anecdotes

[keen dome]

You push a key until you can't beat it anymore.

[short radish]

REMOVE LOCKOUTS SO PEOPLE DONT STEAL AND HOLD LOCKOUTS HOSTAGE

[keen dome]

the fact they can do this is so incredibly stupid lmao

[swift tinsel]

I don't really see it as being difficult to access

clear heroic, try mythic

see how you do

[hazy breach]

if your group struggles to kill rik or cauldron

Theres no fucking way youre killing stix

[sly shore]

Come to terms that there are things in the game you can't access rather than let it affect your own ego

[delicate wind]

The lockouts and 20 man requirements make it hard to access.

[sly shore]

much easier

[short radish]

if youre on an alt and do a pug of it, then your group falls apart because toys are apparently impossible to do for ppl with singular digit braincells

you are now punished for the entire week

[swift tinsel]

lol ours skipped stix and are doing lockenstock and done after that

[lilac stag]

20 man doesn’t make it hard to access. Lockouts do

[swift tinsel]

sadly hard for a lot of folks to grasp

[delicate wind]

I’m saying the combo. If you remove one it becomes easier either way

[hazy breach]

Correct, thats also what makes the design good because of the consistent group size and tight tuning

[delicate wind]

I think lockout is the better one to remove

[lilac stag]

I see

[delicate wind]

Because it doesn’t impact tuning or group size

[lilac stag]

Yes. Lockout adjustment would be better

[swift tinsel]

I'm for removing lockouts, I don't see them as necessary

bc I don't play at a level where juggling them means anything

[lilac stag]

Loot / RWF

[cloud rover]

It certainly does

Because its harder to coordinate 20+

Than 10

[random mason]

Loot lock like in HC

[cloud rover]

Or 12

[random mason]

After 4 weeks lockouts are gone or something idk

[lilac stag]

Number doesn’t make it less accessible. It makes it more challenging.

[random mason]

So RWF andys dont cry

[keen dome]

20-man is another accessibility issue but not one you can easily address whereas the Lockout one is super easy to address and has way more pros than cons. Like, just make the barrier to trying the content less frustrating and stop needlessly punishing pug groups lol

[lilac stag]

We could run a 24 roster without a lockout and let people pug we’d never have a roster boss issue

[short radish]

yeah

[keen dome]

Yeah, it'd make the management aspect a lot smoother.

[short radish]

benches arent nearly as punishing

what's that youre on the bench for the next 2 bosses?

guess you just dont get to play the game

L

get gatekept idiot

[lilac stag]

who the fuck wants to sit for 2 weeks or more cause your spec sucks

[short radish]

me pick me

[delicate wind]

Yup and that boss has your bis items so get gatekept harder

[lilac stag]

sorry atrophic mandatory

[short radish]

is it even mandatory

[keen dome]

Make them think it is

[short radish]

thats copium

[lilac stag]

Yes

It gives me a raid spot

Hahah

[swift tinsel]

I have no rogues to compete with so its my atro

[short radish]

wasnt mandatory for stix

[swift tinsel]

or no atro

[keen dome]

Present a tedtalkx about it. Big graphs, lots of data about how it helps.

[swift tinsel]

and also get parried idiots

[lilac stag]

Stop giving away secrets

[random mason]

Make the pug yourself and you have a spot for that boss

[short radish]

tbh

[swift tinsel]

L plus ratio

[short radish]

i dont mind being on the bench

gives me a nice break mid way

[delicate wind]

Sure but if you don’t have items from a boss you get benched on multiple weeks and can’t get it in your vault. Sucks to suck

Not saying pugging that boss would be easy but at least there’s still a chance and you have something to go do in the week and bang your head against a wall lol

But I only have killed 3 mythic bosses this tier from pugging so I shouldn’t be in the convo 😉

[short radish]

decent effort tbh

i reckon sprocket is easier to pug than stix

not that ive tried to pug either

[delicate wind]

Idk rik is as far is I’ve gotten and really I just go for cauldron start and gears and then if it doesn’t fall apart I’ll try

But also that’s in the current lockout state

I’d like to try more bosses but no one is really pugging rik or past that and not many guilds are bringing pugs. You have to trial and blah

Like tonight this time works but next week it doesn’t so I’m out

[keen dome]

Getting a Cauldron kill is a lot of effort, too. Way more than it's worth.

[sly shore]

tbh

you kinda just have to accept that you can't do it for now

[delicate wind]

Ya but you have to start cauldron just to get the two guarantee for vault

[sly shore]

until they remove lockouts

that's life

[delicate wind]

Oh I know I can’t. That’s my argument

lol back to square one

[keen dome]

Ye, but most of those groups are at the "only if you've killed it" stage so it's a self-fulling cycle haha

[delicate wind]

We did a whole ass circle. That was fun

[sly shore]

People join conversations half way through the circle

[short radish]

BLIZZARD GATEKEEPING DINARS IS GOOD

[keen dome]

Mandatory scroll up to underand the LORE

[sly shore]

can't spend your dinar? get good

unlucky

[delicate wind]

lol I know. I enjoyed the circle. Because it kind of proved my point 🙂

[sly shore]

free up your entire life around wow

like a regular human being

refuse to work evenings

find a new job

just to play more wow

you know it makes sense

[delicate wind]

Right or I just cancel my subscription like I do every single season

[sly shore]

seems like you're in an abusive relationship with wow

[delicate wind]

Not really. It’s fun when there’s stuff to do

[sly shore]

John Blizzard backhanding you

[delicate wind]

And when there isn’t I just stop playing

Also seasonally it’s easier to play more in winter. When the weather is nice I’m going outside

[swift tinsel]

same, now that its been in the 70's and sunny I'm barely on my computer

[delicate wind]

I’m on discord more than wow exponentially

lol

[swift tinsel]

I'm usually on here at work bc I'm scanning docs and the feeder is slow so I've got time to kill lol

[delicate wind]

Haha same I have some notebooks running and I’m waiting to see if they fail or not

also pd2 season restarts tomorrow, so i have something else to farm/do while im 'working'

[brave moth]

Bro sub is so dead, even the mid-expansion article will come out last. Kekw

[sly shore]

currently going through our folders in outlook to see their usage

and clear them up and reduce them down

and reorganise

[swift tinsel]

Oh man I can't have messy Outlook folders

or Teams threads

[sly shore]

My personal inbox is very well organised

But the shared one is a nightmare

[honest void]

Man playing sub is like getting a really good high and withdrawal symptoms immediately after, cyclically

[sly shore]

almost 600 folders

[honest void]

why is the spec this way?

[swift tinsel]

Jesus, I get annoyed when the 12 I look after aren't proper

[hazy breach]

Because its fun

[honest void]

didn't say it's a bad thing tbf

the withdrawals makes the highs all the much better

[cloud rover]

Grass toucher

Oof

[honest void]

can you be my grass?

[cloud rover]

Yes

[void ocean]

got my jastors

feel so empty now

[lilac stag]

Me once we kill OAB. Haha

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-alone-lonely-quarantine-life-kyriostsahs-sad-gif-17868758

[young path]

To further deepen your void…

I’m straight dumbfounded blizzard has landed their balancing where they have

[graceful osprey]

Sub is probably still OP in blizzards eyes

[swift tinsel]

Blizzard making weird balancing choices, shock and awe

[oak grotto]

Has sub been stealthnerfed or? I feel like after reset I do way less damage in the same keys but with better gear

[swift tinsel]

stealth nerfed in that other specs do more damage, meaning things die faster so you do less damage

but that would lowkey be fucking hilarious if we got stealth nerfed

[oak grotto]

I feel like I do way less damage after the ilvl increase than before

In the same keys

[fallow nimbus]

Maybe blizz thinks we will be fine again when bosses die close to 2min

[short radish]

The only content that matters is farm

[wild hornet]

guess which one is the rogue

[brave moth]

The spec is perfectly balanced dw

[brave moth]

If sub rogue, the purple one

[wild hornet]

yes sub rogue

[brave moth]

Purple one

[wild hornet]

yes

bingo

[brave moth]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-cat-dancing-kitten-60fps-boogie-cat-gif-24303276

There are 10 logged parses for this spec and 3 of em are my main and 2 alts. EZ

[wild hornet]

on which boss

[brave moth]

Doesnt matter

There are 3 people playing it kekw

[winter python]

I saw that WoWHead post and my damage instantly went down 3%

[brave moth]

Smh yes. Before yday I managed to be in top 5 in raid for like 40/50 sec

not I am at the bottom

[lilac stag]

Your gear upgrades haven’t mattered since week 2. Get dagger. Get 4 pc. Get HoC for menty b prevention.

Those were your only upgrades.

[graceful osprey]

Waiting for the announcement that sub is being changed to support spec

[merry agate]

Backstab probably a lil bit overtuned in blizz eyes 🤔

[brave moth]

https://tenor.com/view/awkward-black-kid-gif-4937950

[oak grotto]

I mean it just feels worse, I've also spokejn to a lot of people who say that it feels like Sub does worse dps

[brave moth]

It has to be doing more in every way. Just other specs do more

and in general vers aint the scaling type of stat

[north schooner]

old hemorrhage increasing physical damage done on the target is coming back

[warm marlin]

damage felt fine this week for me

[tepid trellis]

we already have that

its called find weakness

[warm marlin]

def higher

[tepid trellis]

and it blows

[north schooner]

FW is self only, old hemo was for the entire raid which fits the support role rework sub is getting

[wild hornet]

the damage may be shit but at least its fun to play

[lilac stag]

If you’re doing the same key level and everyone else is killing mobs faster, it’s going to make your timing and CDR feel worse

the spec is dead

it’s scaling is south of abysmal

[oak grotto]

Ah yeah could also be UHDK hitting 30m burst in AoE

[oak grotto]

But what makes the scaling on Sub so dogshit

[tepid trellis]

we dont get buffs other classes does

[lilac stag]

^

our mastery doesn’t carry enough with the actual abilities

Vers has its limits

[oak grotto]

So its like this

[lilac stag]

It’s not dooming in here. Just the 📠

[lilac stag]

nah we didn’t get a chair to land softly in

Also. sub is fun

Child on left does not look to be having fun

[oak grotto]

So TLDR, we dont get buffs so our only thing to fall back on is stats and stats are super limited with dropoff and the fact that you cant get infinite stats

is that like simplified truth

[keen dome]

the chair is for the mage spec above us

we're in the ground below it. buried

[vale pine]

yep^^

[lilac stag]

You appeared OP in week 2 because you had a best in slot trinket from the previous season. You could look at any of the 678 sims and see there was little to no change.

[slate marlin]

"Backstab dmg increased by 4%. Does nkt affect shadowstrike" incoming

[lilac stag]

Blizzard doing blizzard things

[haughty mural]

Don’t worry, we will get the ww treatment

Any moment

[oak grotto]

But I will also say that I'd rather play something fun and bad than boring and better

[haughty mural]

They had that since forever

[oak grotto]

Fuck jumping the ship I'm going down with it if needed

[lilac stag]

Buffs to Deathstalker?

[slate marlin]

would having seal fate again fix anything

[brittle plinth]

Other than the logic of replacing items you don't have, is there a rough priority for crafted items? Currently have dagger and cloak.

[young path]

So cringe as a concept that a pure dps role based spec/class is now being beaten at dps by a support role spec…

Like who in the world, sitting in some random office at blizzard HQ thinks this is the way! ROFL

[oak grotto]

But seeing that we go below Aug in ST

[haughty mural]

Nah, buffs to haste

So we take warning signs

[lilac stag]

Neck and Gloves

[haughty mural]

How would that fix anything ?

We could see how much seal fate cps are wasted during shadowblades

[brittle plinth]

Thank you. I've seen engi helm a few times, that a decent option as well?

[lilac stag]

I don’t think most people get the functionality of the spec

[lilac stag]

No. Just knuckleheads chasing mastery. Tier gloves our the worst stated piece.

[tepid trellis]

Sealfate would just make us go crit again

to milk cdr

[brittle plinth]

Appreciate you.

[lilac stag]

there’s no good neck for sub

Ring isn’t a bad craft either

Boots don’t drop from raid except boe

but you should really gear for assa right now

[warm marlin]

crit mast boots simmed about equal for me

[brittle plinth]

Looks like I need 500 guilded lol

[warm marlin]

at 684 you kinda need to get more crit

[lilac stag]

Yea

It just depends on other gear

[tepid trellis]

stats will always be a balancing act

[formal helm]

buff to bp ofc, why would you buff anything else

[warm marlin]

ye was just saying that you dont need boe boots

[haughty mural]

Based

[brittle plinth]

I played ass for a bit, not enjoyable. I'm happy with what sub can do, despite the meta.

Appreciate you looking out though

[lilac stag]

Glhf!

[haughty mural]

Another buff to bp and it might aswell get our new st finisher

Unlimited power

[swift tinsel]

not too far away from it now

[haughty mural]

Exactly

[hollow spear]

I think Eleem calculated that at 25% more, you would spam bp

[haughty mural]

Maybe we get a slightly changed gutripper instead of pv

[hollow spear]

I don't think they change shit

[haughty mural]

Of course not

[hollow spear]

They just slap on an aura buff, if anything

No time to think about the details

[haughty mural]

Underline if anything

[hollow spear]

No signs of anything on ptr yet

Gotta up my copium

It's not even that sub isn't fun right now

It just hits like a wet noodle

[haughty mural]

Sub is fun

Always was

Somehow

[hollow spear]

And hitting like a wet noodle is not fun

You can consistently parse 90+ and still have to scroll quite a while on details

[haughty mural]

Me when playing sub in a key again and feeling like blasting just to respecc for next key and do more without the need to sweat:

[hollow spear]

At least bleed build is chill

[haughty mural]

True

[hollow spear]

But when you're used to sub's boss damage

You get depressed

[haughty mural]

Also true

[worldly orchid]

picking up sub rogue for casual guild alt M+ runs. is crafting 2 weapons ideal? is offhand item level important?

[hollow spear]

Mainhand good

Offhand bad

Just craft a neck or bracers instead

[spare garnet]

Unless main hand is mythic track vault. Then you can craft offhand

[swift tinsel]

even then you're probably better off with neck/bracers

maybe ring

[final holly]

I think honestly an aura buff is just what we need. I think the damage profile and core gameplay are perfect it's just the numbers are super lackluster

If we got an aura buff that took us to the middle of the pack then our burst would be insane, it would feel really good

[delicate wind]

one more dance charge would make the spec feel better tho

[swift tinsel]

eh

[young path]

TFD take effect immediately upon restealth and a slight aura buff