subtlety

[delicate wind]

I think he’s saying if you have one armed hc kill you only need 4 lfr bosses for the dinars

Bc we had already established I had done hc

[haughty rose]

ahh

[delicate wind]

If you’re gonna interject you have to read the whole convo. Jussssayin

😉

[keen dome]

JUST POST, imo

[brave moth]

you get dinnar by killing 4 bosses on LFR/Normal/HC/Mythic or doing 4x12s

[haughty rose]

i also only read headlines on reddit

[void ocean]

isnt like 4xany key

[brave moth]

idk

think it is 12s

[void ocean]

it would be a bit disproportional

[brave moth]

let me check

[void ocean]

4x12s vs 4xlfr bosses

[brave moth]

Ya it is 4 of any type of m+

mb

[delicate wind]

Sounds like 12s it is. I wanna fight the queue boss

[void ocean]

12s are if u want to buy an item that drops in seasonal dungs... and all timed 12s

[void ocean]

so i gotta pray that my Signet drops in vault 😄

[delicate wind]

Vault drops items?

I thought it just had image placeholders for items I’d never use

[brave moth]

12s arent that hard just have to fight LFG boss

and hope you dont end up with turbo shitters

[void ocean]

vault placeholder for all those Big Red Button trinkets

[void ocean]

i timed all 12s on my dk tho

cbb with rogue

[brave moth]

idk how it will work for alts

I think you have to have this shit done on your alt also

which is kinda cringe

[delicate wind]

All I know is I have 4 sockets to use and no mythic items to use them on

Literally season of s.a.d.

[alpine wraith]

i want mythic vers of delve items

give me 684 drink

my kingdom for it

[void ocean]

i had somewhat luck on my dk tho, got mythic Signet, first hc then mythic Seaforium

no weapon tho

[brave moth]

Same on my 2nd rogue

[void ocean]

the entire season Im gettin 2H weapons altho im spec as frost

[delicate wind]

My vaults have literally been so bad that a few weeks I didn’t even do dungeons bc I would rather not be disappointed again in wasting all the time on lfg boss

[void ocean]

i have like 7 in my bag and thats when i started collecting em for shits n giggles, prolly like 3 ended with vendor

2nd weeks vault was like hax tho

got hoc on both of my toons

didnt take it cause also had mythic seaforium

[delicate wind]

Ya I needed sanity breaks from vaults so I took a few weeks off dungeons

[void ocean]

i dunno what to take as 2nd item for rogue

[delicate wind]

Reroll token

[void ocean]

i got hoc hc from raid, when i take jastor after that... signet maybe

i just killed Stix M, maybe I get magnet

had 12 parse, but couldnt care less just to never see that shit agony of a boss

[brave moth]

For me Jastor is dps loss

[void ocean]

as sub i guess

[keen dome]

Same, Jastor is a loss unless I pretend it isn't and whoops ah well I dropped the circlet. Gosh darn.

[void ocean]

im raiding as assa so its like 40k ugrade 😄

tho hoc aint much of a story as assa 😄

[brave moth]

my rogue is so strange seaforium was never an upgrade for me smh

[violet shuttle]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[brave moth]

nothing that is "bis" is bis for me smh

[void ocean]

how

what trinkets do u have if mythic seaforium aint good 😄

[brave moth]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d4Vz8BaTa9cVhqoX6h4CWg

HC HoC was 1/2k dps loss compared to Myth Transmitter

but I am playing HoC fuck transmitter

[alpine wraith]

dont worry next week we also get the breath of fire in raid

for that sweet 1-2% extra dps too

big D

[void ocean]

wut? 😄

[brave moth]

WOOOOOWWWWWWWW we are gonna smash

[alpine wraith]

yea next week we get a buff too

the raid one

[keen dome]

There's a damage proc buff, yeah

[warm marlin]

huge ilvl and damage gain to hold dps for even longer

[keen dome]

It does like 150k? on proc or something and increases by 33% per pot, flask and food we have

It's like a bonus enchant thing. Kinda weird but a cool idea

[void ocean]

the buff that everyone gets, i suppose

i wonder when was the last time any spec went the entire season without single tuning

[lilac stag]

We had tuning

[void ocean]

negative tuning

😄

[lilac stag]

You didn’t specify

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/listen-one-job-gif-12942767

[unreal dock]

does anyone think that sub is good in m+ right now :c ?

[void ocean]

it is

[unreal dock]

really ?

[void ocean]

depends what u mean by good

if u wanna do like 10s stuff its ok

[lilac stag]

Good means avg. it’s fine.

[void ocean]

u prolly wont top dps

[unreal dock]

i mean i'm never top dps in +14/+15...

[lilac stag]

Assa is really good

[void ocean]

well top dps is not "good"

[lilac stag]

Sub is never top. Always bottom

[unreal dock]

but i mean never top by a lot

never played assa so far

i'm outlaw main, tried to play sub for this season as it was really good at the beginning of the season

is assa fun to play ?

cause sub is slow as fuck outside of burst

[void ocean]

god no

[lilac stag]

fun is dependent on you and only you

[pastel rampart]

top dps with 1 simple trick (tricks on uhdk)

[lilac stag]

assa has higher apm in keys than sub

[void ocean]

naa im free to say its not fun for amyone 😄

[lilac stag]

If that’s fun

[unreal dock]

more apm than outlaw ?

[lilac stag]

outlaw is really good in keys as well

[void ocean]

dont be ridiculous

[unreal dock]

ok

[lilac stag]

you just have to learn to play with KS

[void ocean]

nothing has bigger apm that outlaw

https://tenor.com/view/sweaty-speedrunner-epic-gamer-sweatyspeedrunner-gif-22461398

thats why I switched to do keys as fdk, its perfect

I'll fondly remeber this season as it was kind to fdk... probably wont happen again during this trilogy

[lilac stag]

just wait for freehold to show up again

[void ocean]

yea it was quite good in catchin greased up pig

[lilac stag]

I loved my little dragoons pulling 1/2 the dungeon

[void ocean]

arcane mage orb

goes to narnia on random

[unreal dock]

if you have to make a ranking of rogue specializations with as criteria, the pleasure of the gameplay and the strength of the spec in mm+ what would it be ? :c

[void ocean]

pulls Aslan, Witch and everyone

[void ocean]

cant rly speak about outlaw, never wnet further than dummies... or maybe a few low keys, cant remember, but assa is strong but boring, sub other way around... imho

[unreal dock]

alright thanks

[void ocean]

like bleed build doesnt even take fckin kingsbane

u literally press DM on boss and be like "now what..."

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brave moth]

As sub you wont be top dps unless you play with shitters

Outlaw is fun in keys, a lot of key spamming but Killing Spree is kinda shit

[alpine wraith]

as sub just dont install details

[brave moth]

And you are AoE capped

[alpine wraith]

it is a virus

tell yourself that

live blissfuly

[brave moth]

I had such fun time raiding 1 night with no details

for "FPS purpose"

[alpine wraith]

boss dies you high five

oh you just got benched

or kicked from the guild

unluck

[brave moth]

kekw

[alpine wraith]

they were not worth your time!

[brave moth]

I had a friedn who was playing WoW with no details

He was casualand always had fun in keys

he was seeing big crits on his screen and was asking if he is doing a lot of dmg

in reality he was fighting the tank on dps

[brittle plinth]

Fun is bis

Your friend is living the life

[void ocean]

But what about dopamine and overall sense of superiority

When u top the dps

[alpine wraith]

i mean wow can be fun

until you meet people

[void ocean]

Thats better than fun

[alpine wraith]

but then you meet the right people and it is fun again

then they leave

and you are alone

then it is not that fun

repeat for 20 years

[vocal orchid]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

It can cause frame rate loss if you never clear out the data.

just play with an overlay that has a zeross screen cap

[fiery pewter]

We are all subs by nature

[delicate wind]

I’m a sub top tho? Bottom dom energy

[exotic kelp]

Thats called a powerbottom :)

[delicate wind]

Oh hey it me, power bottom

[zealous hedge]

am i missing something or why does So Tricky not work?

[tribal blade]

you need to hit something to activate it

if you just cast it on someone and don't hit anything it won't activate

[merry umbra]

i noticed it being weird too

almost like you can't put it on anyone unless you're in combat or something

[tribal blade]

if you just cast it on someone you get the 30 second buff

if you hit something within that 30 seconds you get the 1 hour buff

[merry umbra]

i mean it literally doesn't apply the first part unless the target is in combat

[tribal blade]

has nothing to do with what your target is doing

[tribal blade]

something's wrong with yours then

i dunno if you have a bug

[zealous hedge]

Ill try that again but even then it doesnt let me apply it at all sometimes

[tribal blade]

oh check if your target has a neural silencer or similar effect

that'll prevent you from tricksing them

[civic forge]

could also be a mounted tank

[ashen dock]

hmm I've woke up and there seems to be an error on wowhead, there's no class tuning post

[alpine wraith]

ehehe

dont worry you can TURBO BOOST

[dry plank]

We need to realize that this is a channel of dead spec just for dooming xD

[alpine wraith]

this is our channel

and we love it

[zealous hedge]

is that why i feel dead inside?

[vale pine]

haha, ye classic mistake

[grave shore]

I see tuning next week

Sub will be r1 dps
All bugs will be fixed

Feel that

[north schooner]

it will be like a surprise birthday party

[alpine wraith]

well we are r1

of not doing dmg

[worn ivy]

Rerolling aug

[alpine wraith]

rerolling aug is harsh

[lilac stag]

More DPS. More Useful to Raid. Better “alt” spec in Dev.

[keen dome]

They should give us more raid utility. This is why I propose that Sub get a heroism button

Just copy paste the shaman one

[ashen dock]

or rogue brings a 3% haste buff like Skyfury

[lilac stag]

If they give it to sub you realize it won’t for 2-4 raid tiers after implementation.

[cloud rover]

Give us warlock Gate

But we do the Ninja move with smoke bomb

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[lilac stag]

I ain’t fucking putting gates down in raid

[cloud rover]

OR

[keen dome]

Like realtalk I think a Smokebomb utility button would go hard. 5s Smokebomb that is either a DR like Darkness or a LoS thing (maybe a choice node? So you have a raid variant and an M+ variant). So you drop it, and all mobs LoS into the cloud.

[cloud rover]

Healthstones/Aka Crimson Vial

[keen dome]

Just give Rogue a real cool utility button or group defensive that can help tanks gather and be used proactively

[cloud rover]

Thats like something that was already there, but got taken from us for Darkness

[keen dome]

Yep

[lilac stag]

Does as much healing as crimson vial currently

[fallow nimbus]

Give sub the old crit/haste raidbuff

[keen dome]

I remember the LoS style in uh.. Legion?

[cloud rover]

LoS was Cata

and prior expac

[magic ruin]

yo chat if going "The rotten" instead of "Finality", is backstab in dance still better in ST?

[cloud rover]

I think with MoP it was a DR

[keen dome]

Yeah it's been so long

[lilac stag]

You don’t play rotten in ST

[keen dome]

But like. With how M+ works? bring it back. it wuld give rogue a real useful utility button

Just 5 seconds on, I don't know. a 2 minute cooldown? LoS cloud. All mobs have to run in. massive utility. Imagine it in priory

[cloud rover]

I mean we technically have a button for this

kinda

Aoe BLind with the DR

[alpine wraith]

smokebomb was omegabusted in pandaria

[ashen dock]

I mean Trickster does have a raid buff, it can't parry my attacks :(...im helping..right?

[cloud rover]

on the mobs

[alpine wraith]

had to be taken off

it broke so many mechanics

[keen dome]

Blind doesn't cause LoS, but yeah. You can blind the cast which makes them run in.

[magic ruin]

m+ build goes rotten no? So lets say a single target m+ boss

[worn ivy]

Notes :
Subtlety rogue all abilities damage increased 15%
The first dance now resets instantly everytime you go in stealth.

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-smiling-day-dreaming-gif-14873557

[tepid trellis]

sorry best i can do is 5% bp dmg

[grave delta]

Wake up, check this channel for a new pin, day ruined

[lilac stag]

Yes you still stab. But you should be playing assa.

[worn ivy]

Last time they pinned something about this spec was in 2024

Rupture now replaced with night vangence

[ashen dock]

don't be so disheartened, they gave us new shoulder transmog to compensate

[worn ivy]

🙏

https://tenor.com/view/goara-dodosolsollalasol-dream-dreaming-cute-gif-19051865

[tepid trellis]

imagine its been like 5+ years since nightblade was removed from retail

[worn ivy]

They bringing back usleess stuff

Just bring back the og spells instead

[cloud rover]

Basically Rupture

[cloud rover]

Alright DFA is back

[keen dome]

We've replaced Eviserate with Black Powder. That's it.

[worn ivy]

Sectech still has lots of bugs

Dungeons are not optimized still

I see clones falling down edge

Or when druid typon wortex

[vale pine]

still sad we did not get the rename and icon change

[tepid trellis]

okay lets not pretend DFA did not have those either xD

that shit spell still owes me a mouse and a keyboard

[worn ivy]

Haha

Was fun in legion atleast

Basicly melee arcane mage

[tepid trellis]

went through the floor 3 out of 7 pulls one night and i lost a keyboard and a mouse

bad rng

[vale pine]

you usually ended up falling through the floor if you attacked before the tank

especially with strike teleport

[worn ivy]

But lowkey there is a high chance now they will buff us

I think its less played spec ig rn

[tepid trellis]

chance of getting buffed is 50/50 either we do, or we dont

[worn ivy]

Im wondering if they gonna explain us how they decieded if a spec or class needs a buff

[tepid trellis]

no they wont lol

[worn ivy]

But who decide this ?

For example they buffing ret st

But whos doing it

[keen dome]

The balance team, I guess.

[worn ivy]

Like who comes with this ideas

[tepid trellis]

they say they look at alot of data

[worn ivy]

Listen brother tell balance team to gtfo 🙂

[keen dome]

When I looked at the median damage at like, Heroic-level? Ret ST was quite a bit lower than say, Sub ST. On the lower end. So like, maybe that's why? Bringing up the bottom end of it

[tepid trellis]

like you could clearly tell on the last buffs that came out

that they were looking at the worst performers in nm/hc/mythic

they just forgot one spec in the middle of the 6 that got buffed

its just unlucky

he added a # infront of the sub code

forgot to remove it after

it is what it is

[worn ivy]

😂😂

[cloud rover]

I think they looked at the parses

and saw that almost nobody plays sub

and didnt bother

[worn ivy]

I do play it

[cloud rover]

Im sorry

[tepid trellis]

now see that would be funny

[cloud rover]

But i dont think they know who Lashga is

[tepid trellis]

but they buffed Aug which had even less

players

by quite a fcking lot

[worn ivy]

I rerolled assa for oab man i hate playing every single sec

[cloud rover]

Thats prolly a different thing

[worn ivy]

I feel like im gonna puke

[cloud rover]

Becasue Aug was literally unplayable and there a lot of people who only play Aug

Thats my Explaination for that tbh

[tepid trellis]

"alot"

[cloud rover]

but its far fetched

[tepid trellis]

shit had like 300 parses on mythic

[cloud rover]

Ye because they prolly just dont play

[worn ivy]

Bro even aug does more st than sub rn

[cloud rover]

or are Devs

[worn ivy]

Hows this even possivble

[cloud rover]

[keen dome]

What were the parses on Heroic? I still think they're looking at Heroic more than anything else

[cloud rover]

I play Sub on Gally

[tepid trellis]

thats what happens when you get buffed twice in 4 weeks

[cloud rover]

Dont want to play Sin there

[tepid trellis]

while you get to rot in a corner

[cloud rover]

sin omega boring#

[tepid trellis]

i did it on farm last night

never again

we had full cleave comp

0 spatter

dmg

95mil spatter dmg at 8:40

[cloud rover]

Sin just isnt fun, i fell like its even more starved than Nerubar

[tepid trellis]

vs like 240mil on a good parse for diff people

[worn ivy]

On a long fights assa execute so stronk

Was it fatal inent ?

[cloud rover]

Funny you said that i made a meme for our fury warrior

[worn ivy]

I dont remember

[tepid trellis]

doesent matter one bit on gally

and no

not fatal intent lol

[tepid trellis]

that shit does - dmg

[worn ivy]

Some deathstalker talent

[tepid trellis]

it does 0 dmg

useless talent

[cloud rover]

Adds spawn he literally puts everything on the adds

and says

AGGRO

??????

[worn ivy]

What was the talent they do more damage under 30%

[tepid trellis]

our adds just die 7 sec after they spawn

[worn ivy]

also got more procs on ambush

[tepid trellis]

Zoldyc

and its 35%

[worn ivy]

Oh yea

[ashen dock]

ey yo were popular

[worn ivy]

I checked execute phase oab assa is pumping boss damage

[tepid trellis]

30% more dmg below 35%

[worn ivy]

If u dont open flag to adds everytime and i go full boss can i do damage close to assa on that fight

Coz i was popping adds

I think u hold like 5 sec

To have it on adds

1:30

But now adds nerfed

No point playing sub on that fight

Also i was checking logs.why the f every too log is chineese ?

[tepid trellis]

parse runs stonkz

[worn ivy]

Every rank 1 log is chineese

Remove china region from raiderio and wlogs

[cloud rover]

Only Boss i played sin was Mug'zee

[lilac stag]

China guilds only ones that care about parse log shenanigans. EU & NA can’t be arsed any longer with reclears and parsing setups

[worn ivy]

Hmm

[tepid trellis]

parse culture is pretty much dead

thanks to their ramping dmg effects

every tier now

[brisk onyx]

fatal intent and shadowheart are two joke in our talent

[vestal escarp]

Yeah

The raid buff isnt taken into account into logs

[brisk onyx]

it's a crime

[vestal escarp]

Every 3 weeks you automatically kill all old parses

Depends

[worn ivy]

Broo look this timer

5:04

Oab kill

[vestal escarp]

It worse to still look at parses the old way with this system in place

[worn ivy]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8ayNT79DGmqn63Kd?fight=16&type=damage-done

Evoker almost 5 mil

[cloud rover]

Just start parsing when every buff is applied

[worn ivy]

They killing the boss 1:30 min fastet than normal 🙂

[tepid trellis]

well fast push strat without beeing omega pumpers

is like 5:40 ish

u guys just doing the slow ass strat

[worn ivy]

We also

Stop dps

Thats so bad

[leaden prairie]

i wish you would see boss damage aswell as normal damage on your profile

I want incentive to farm both

[worn ivy]

Hows outlaw boss damage on that fight ?

[leaden prairie]

i meant in general

but ye idk

you play pad builds on bandit

and im also stopping boss dps for 1min rn on bandit

[worn ivy]

Sadge its even more worse for outlaw

Its less punishing if u play subtlety in that fight

Coz i stop dps and still farm dances

[tepid trellis]

ngl my drive for logs is in the negative, too much of my dmg is dependent on other people sucking, so it just isnt fun

[alpine wraith]

other people sucking and rng

[cloud rover]

Just Crit your Sectechs?

[worn ivy]

I was thiking to go full crit mastety for subtlety

[haughty rose]

CD of Flagellation now resets on Boss reset

[haughty rose]

seriously fix this blizzzzz

nothing worse than turbo blast the trash before cauldron and flag doesn't reset

[worn ivy]

I wanna play tea and darkbrew

[alpine wraith]

crit mastery makes no sense with CB

just go full on mastery vers and just crit!!??

[cloud rover]

Yes

I mean

Its 50/50 to crit

Just hit the right 50

[worn ivy]

Lot of spells for subtlety need remake

PV

The the other shit on the right

What was the name

Before dark shadow

[lilac stag]

Just go full haste

[worn ivy]

Lingering shadow

[leaden prairie]

I mean you play sub tho ??

You can snipe the aoe

I legit cannot as outlaw

And I can still log idk

[worn ivy]

Bro what is that even
Lingering shadow

[leaden prairie]

Not on stix anymore but whatever

I also cannot log first boss but whatever

Rest is fine

Rik but whatever rik is shit anyway

Always was rng

But like as sub you can just snipe all the AOE you want no?

What is the issue egen

[tepid trellis]

i dont

[leaden prairie]

Ok well

Why

[tepid trellis]

feels like shit to play

[leaden prairie]

thats on you man idk

[tepid trellis]

so i dont wanna

[leaden prairie]

does 0 damage you mean

[tepid trellis]

both

[leaden prairie]

really

[cloud rover]

Im ok with playign sub on Gally

Fuck sin

[leaden prairie]

i like current iteration idk

[worn ivy]

Goremaw’s bite is the play

😂

[lilac stag]

Out of curiosity which part of it if it’s not the lack of dmg

[heady helm]

why do people play sub rouge when its below aug evoker? what is the benefit in raid or m+?

[lilac stag]

they enjoy the spec

[jade canopy]

playing sub brings me joy

playing assa makes me sleep in my chair and forget to move when gally does something

[tepid trellis]

cdr too rigid. positional requirement for dmg (fw) like 75% of your dmg comes from a 16 sec window wish dmg was tied to dance and not flag. sectech being a buggy mess

[lilac stag]

ok what I figured. Stuff we’ve been saying for awhile.

I just didn’t want to assume

[tepid trellis]

i hope they absolute smite dev evoker from existence

that class is the least fun thing in the world to play with

[haughty mural]

💯

[sly shore]

100% but it's fun to play

satisfying rotation, even

[alpine wraith]

disintegrate

[tepid trellis]

add spawning

0.2sec later

[alpine wraith]

disintegrate

[tepid trellis]

BOOM

gone

[alpine wraith]

disintegrate

oh wait that is a diff one

engulf

[sly shore]

it's engulf

[alpine wraith]

yea i know

[vestal escarp]

Aome shitty fire breath

[sly shore]

and because it's max charged fire breath too

[alpine wraith]

silly things

[sly shore]

it's even more damage

[tepid trellis]

0 fcking setup

just drool

and do infinite

[sly shore]

there is some

since you need debuffs up on target

but it's nothing like what rogue has to do

just to do piss damage

[alpine wraith]

stacking flag

zzzzzzzz

on a "burst" speck

let me stack this for 10 secs

[heady dragon]

wish granted, they buff aug 2000x again

so nobody plays dev

[alpine wraith]

i hope they buff aug 2 times more

[tepid trellis]

id rather have that

[alpine wraith]

so dev gets to enjoy the assa vs sub treatment

and mm vs bm

[lilac stag]

need the m+ tears again

Need a good tettles mentyb

[haughty mural]

Atleast aug made my sub hits bigger

With dev I am not even allowed to hit smth with my noodle dmg

Because targets disappear

[lilac stag]

our healer is legit our top dps as dev and she’s never dps’d before the last month

[alpine wraith]

you get to evis twice

best i can give you

[heady dragon]

well dev is really easy overall

[vestal escarp]

[lilac stag]

it just cracks me up. And she’s an amazing healer, I don’t think any of the other classes could do that swap and pump as hard

[alpine wraith]

think there were many holy pala-> ret pala

and now they are happier

[lilac stag]

meanwhile I’m praying for Sectech to hit or blindside to proc

[heady dragon]

resto druid->boomkin works aswell

boomkin is no rocket science

otherwhise boomkins could not play it

[lilac stag]

the dps gap wasn’t as huge imo with those

Right now all three specs in raid are irritating.

bs procs, sub just sucks. Outlaw ks

[vestal escarp]

"friction"

[lilac stag]

like dragging your nuts over a cheese shredder friction

[haughty mural]

Ouch

[void ocean]

how else do u shave?

[short radish]

reckon if they made TFD proc off just hitting stealth (including vanish)

how big would that be for us

[alpine wraith]

quite a bit

you would have long dance+normal dance every flag

running 2 vanishes

for most fights

[short radish]

oh yeah that'd be sick

heroic farm would be so good

because thats the real end game right

[tribal blade]

the issue then becomes

you have to drop stuff to get x2 vanish 🙂

[short radish]

[alpine wraith]

lul dropping cb

as if it mattered

[short radish]

also have to drop forced induction right?

oh wait nvm you dont

can drop deadened nerves

[tribal blade]

most likely yeah 😦

but then you have to play with subterfuge

which is almost like throwing away 2 points

i'm betting if they made TFD proc off vanish they would also do something about subterfuge for sub

if they had brains

[alpine wraith]

nah making subterfuge make sense of sub is too much

for their interns

maybe they would break stealth in 2 diff ways

[tribal blade]

what was it before, +1 sec duration to dance?

[alpine wraith]

has been diff things but yea +1 or +2

but we are already up to 8 secs

[tribal blade]

that would be pretty strong

[alpine wraith]

when it used to be 5

so figure

[tribal blade]

if they actually made those changes i think sub would be in a really strong spot

[alpine wraith]

likely yea

[tribal blade]

that much dance

THEN our downtime dmg would be warranted

[alpine wraith]

tbh would be funnier if they embraced the whole move your cds anywhere

and gave flag/blades 2 charges

1 min cd

even if we were mid pack we would always be useful like in dust days kinda

[tribal blade]

would they need to reduce the power in flag and blades then

[alpine wraith]

depends

tbh blades power did not need to go down with how weak it was

but here we are

[short radish]

we also didnt need to get nerf'd week -1

[alpine wraith]

we are about to be gapped by 1 mil

[tribal blade]

yeah them reducing blades duration was pretty cringe

[short radish]

acutally

[alpine wraith]

from the big bois

[short radish]

if we didnt get the week -1 nerf

how strong would we be right now?

[alpine wraith]

which ones

because the tier ones were all tragic

[short radish]

yeah the tier ones

[alpine wraith]

and even baseline one was still a nerf

[tribal blade]

overall in 17 DFC before wiping on candle king

there's 0 shot i can come close to that as sub

[keen dome]

lmao, feetfinderx

[tribal blade]

LOL ok this tank actually wiped us on candle king

so you know when you go into a boss with a kick

everyone assumes tank has it first

(we're all in disc btw)

so he's casting demolish and the fear cast gets to like 0.2 secs left

EVERYONE sends their kick panicking

because the tank doesn't say anything

and then the next fear goes off and we wipe 🙂

[cloud rover]

Just trust him Bor

[tribal blade]

but they were pretty good sports and were laughing about it, so no hard feelings

[cloud rover]

Hes just a chill guy

[tribal blade]

haha yeah afterwards the others were like ""JUST SAY SOMETHING"

[keen dome]

lmao

amazing

I think those kind of wipes just tend to be funny

[tribal blade]

i feel for warrs though, demolish sounds turbo dogshit to play with

[alpine wraith]

it feels cool thi

[tribal blade]

watching warrs get 1 shot and then shouting "I WAS IN DEMOLISH" is too funny

[dreamy badger]

Are you playing normal hybrid?

[tribal blade]

nah this was with bleed

[dreamy badger]

Kk

[tribal blade]

i love the bleed build

so i'm gonna play it until it actually becomes a problem

so far it hasn't been an issue

[lilac stag]

Can’t speak during demolish.

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[dreamy badger]

I cant figure out how to do boss dam on bleed

[lilac stag]

send DM

[tribal blade]

you want to be stacking stuff together, so trying to combine vanish+shivs+DM

and then also when a boss hits like.. i dunno 45% hp or something

or when you know you will only get 1 more DM during the boss

just wait till execute

[dreamy badger]

I see

[tribal blade]

that will skyrocket your dps

[lilac stag]

You’re gonna get 2 DMs

1 asap. 1 execute

Pray for blindside

[tribal blade]

yeah bleed ST actually feels pretty good if you get good rng with blindside

[lilac stag]

don’t get blindsided? Pray harder

[dreamy badger]

Envenom is giga low prio right

?

On bleed

[keen dome]

I hope we eventually get the build diversity Assa has on Sub 'cos they did a great job cooking for Assa

And also Bleed is just fun to play

[tribal blade]

it's the last priority on ST

[dreamy badger]

Kk

[tribal blade]

but it doesn't mean just afking trying to make yourself be above 50% energy

[lilac stag]

You think they’re actually going to fix /replace 7 nodes in the talent tree any time soon?

[dreamy badger]

Pooling not worth it or?

[keen dome]

Soon? Nah. Midnight? 20/80

[lilac stag]

More like WoW in 2080

[wraith solstice]

Assa discussion in sub channel, we are so cooked

[keen dome]

Haha

[tribal blade]

i think it can be, but the tech to force yourself to be above 50% energy is quite a small min max

[dreamy badger]

I see

[tribal blade]

whysper was telling people it doesn't mean just afking the entire time trying to force it

[dreamy badger]

Kk

[wraith solstice]

relax, there is no way we chill behind Aug for more than one ID... right?

[tribal blade]

i'm tempted to start playing hybrid cleave though, it looks kinda cool

[lilac stag]

You’re still trying to pop blindsides so afk not the play

[tribal blade]

yes true

[dreamy badger]

The zerros build? Or the one casual cooked last season

[tribal blade]

yeah zerroes build

forced induction and no garrotes

that build you basically play off spatter dmg

[dreamy badger]

Its nice yea

[tribal blade]

spreading rupture is only for getting at least 5 out for main stat

the cool thing about playing bleed is you can talent iron wire

which is crazy good utility

[dreamy badger]

What do you lose?

ma or what?

[void ocean]

stack of shiv

[dreamy badger]

i see

[tribal blade]

MA will lose you like -10% dps

2nd shiv costs -2.3%

[plush roost]

Problem with bleed is that you lose prio and boss dps which is like the best reason to take assa to keys 17+

I just want this heavy haste ring to be put to use 😦

[lilac stag]

outlaw is calling

[short radish]

outlaw needs to stop being so clingy

[lost tundra]

Hello, new rogue player here. Any recommendations for good subtlety rogue video guides. I have some difficulties with learning by reading 😄

[void ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWvDKaqO5zk

this is the best guide about playing sub 😄

[cloud rover]

Rude

[void ocean]

jokes aside, dunno about other vids, I know Hacha often makes those things

[cloud rover]

I think Hachadino does some

and Shindig?

[alpine wraith]

yea i do videos no idea who shindig is

[keen dome]

Doing keys with a very good warlock and watching them hit like, 25m on some pulls. Sitting there doing no damage and going "I wanna do that.. Blizz???"

[void ocean]

bruh I went in as 670 sub and got outdpsed by 650 demo by like 400k

truth to be told im usually half-arsing my key runs but still

[keen dome]

Haha

Yeah, I was being beaten by my boomie buddy on some packs

Who's 658 and I'm 672 lmao

[slate marlin]

Sub is just in a bad tuning spot

very bad one

[keen dome]

I'm happy I didn't do usless damage but

I want to do the purple bar please

[cloud rover]

Just swap spec

Typ in

Assa Bleed Build

and you do purple bar

[keen dome]

Ye, I would've gone Assa but I was nervous

[void ocean]

lmao

[keen dome]

Floodgate is my least favourite key and the one I hate the most.

[cloud rover]

You literally cant fumble Bleed build

[leaden prairie]

Outlaw does purple bar

[void ocean]

stage fright?

[cloud rover]

Floodgate is chill imo

i like it

[void ocean]

im thinking for 2. dinar to buy that hc offhand for outlaw

[keen dome]

I probably would if i've done it more than twice at 10 lmao

But it's a whatever key and I wanted to be comfy. Next time I go Assa and do big blast

[slate marlin]

i refuse to touch killing spree

[cloud rover]

which is based

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-spongebob-no-dont-touch-i-said-no-gif-21499959

kir should be alright in keys as well, no?

the one without ks

[leaden prairie]

Kir is with ks

Non trickster builds are 20% behind

[void ocean]

darn

rogue rly seems like another sequel of movie "Saw"

heres a great dps but u will most likely kill urself a few times

or heres a fun gameplay that does no fckin dmg

or heres another great dps with nothing to do 😄

[keen dome]

Haha

[lilac stag]

Try red bar

[keen dome]

haha, yeah

red bar is so strong atm

[alpine wraith]

even after 3 nerfs

[void ocean]

not if its red bar with blue icon

then its 3 buffs

well 2 actualy

[alpine wraith]

blue icon has to be protected

with love and care

[void ocean]

amen broda

[swift tinsel]

blue icon ❤️

true casino spec with DB

also red icon fun tank to scare your healers with

when they only look at your hp and never your runic power

[void ocean]

as my bdk guild tank says: cheat death is also a def cd

[swift tinsel]

"mobs can't kill me, only I can"

[wet echo]

incorrect, cheat death is an offensive CD

[lost tundra]

This seems enough dumbed down for me! Thanks 😄

[vale pine]

why does it look like windows xp

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/in-bruges-idk-shrug-i-dont-know-who-knows-gif-17264254

background I guess

😄

[tidal marsh]

Very perceptive of you

[alpine wraith]

good times

[night sparrow]

Is it normal that this makes me wanna cry irl

[cloud rover]

Yes becasue verything got buffed except sub

[tribal blade]

blizz quite literally went out of their way to only not tune sub down at the bottom

2 tuning passes in a row

so it's on purpose for sure

[cloud rover]

Imagine being behind aug

[leaden prairie]

buff outlaw ..

[cloud rover]

Buff Outlaw and fix KS*

[void ocean]

next season we godspec

aura buff: +win

[patent crystal]

with fight timers getting shorter, we will be a bit better so praying they dont look at that be "this is fine"

[graceful osprey]

I’d sub rogue goes up due to shorter fights, blizzard will still nerf sub

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/travis-fran-healy-fran-and-stay-down-stay-down-gif-17966808052133794483

[slate marlin]

ye this feelks like dont play demo situation

[swift tinsel]

I'm worried they're going to blank-slate the spec and make it less enjoyable

not that I think they'd actually do that

but the worry's at the back of my mind with how they've been

[slate marlin]

what is blank slate?

[tribal blade]

i'm honestly not that mad anymore, i can't invest that much energy into losing my mind over what blizz does to sub

[swift tinsel]

start from scratch

[tribal blade]

just watching from afar in amusement

[swift tinsel]

I'm halfway there lol

[slate marlin]

i wouldnt mind tbh, as long as they keep it as a finisher spec

[tribal blade]

it gets to a point where it's just comical

[swift tinsel]

that's def the biggest reason I stopped playing it

[fiery pewter]

The current playstyle is very fun (IMO), i'd hate for Blizz to do what they usually do and attempt a rework

[tribal blade]

and that point is now where nobody else in the game can deny sub is getting fucked

[void ocean]

sounds crazy, but as being a dev myself, i understand em, being probably quite understaffed n shit

[fiery pewter]

I just want like 5% more damage so I can at least be middle of the pack

[slate marlin]

sub doesnt need a full rework tho

[void ocean]

tbh i could question their focus and priorities

[slate marlin]

just 2-3 small changes

and a couple talent changes

[fiery pewter]

Hero talents could definitely see some work done though, Trickster is the only choice

[tribal blade]

one of the bigger things sub needs is an overhaul of abilities and talents

[swift tinsel]

That's not a bad thing, to trickster's credit

[tribal blade]

because half our stuff is so buggy they have to fix it every patch

[slate marlin]

if they choose to full rework rather than fixing a couole issues...thats on them

[swift tinsel]

there's like

5 things they could do that aren't rework-level

that would be amazing changes

[slate marlin]

Just fix ds, buff sd cdr (or make the cadence strict with no cdr), and change a couple of talents...goremaw, pv, and the entire right path rhat buffs storm

[modest river]

i just want to play darkbrew again

[swift tinsel]

improve dance cdr between flag windows, add edge of night over goremaws, make sectech one big hit, poison toggle (or remove them, idc), better visuals

ds needs a look for sub especially if they want it to compete with the gameplay of trickster

bc it doesn't fit well

and doesn't function well

[void ocean]

i wouldnt mind if ds was only good for like st

[swift tinsel]

w/e they could do to remove the aoe cancelaura degen shit

do that

[void ocean]

but its crazy to me that its not even better in st than trickster

[hazy breach]

Fwiw there is a setup thats really close to the standard one (-0.6% or so) that has dB and only +1 symbols charge

Slightly better burst than the standard

[fiery pewter]

I would also be fine with a good 45 sec CD to no feel completely limp in between Blades and Flag

[modest river]

wait where is that, i need to test

[hazy breach]

I can post it in a bit when i get to my computer, Ive tried to cook it to be better than the standard for a while early on in the season but it never worked out

[void ocean]

long term blizz shoud rly consider deleting some specs from 3-dps-spec classes

[modest river]

no way, i always thought they would outdo themselves and give everyone an extra spec

[void ocean]

they obv cant maintain em

[modest river]

one can wish

[void ocean]

theres always one DOA spec

[slate marlin]

ore more developers

[fiery pewter]

I honestly thought that Rogue was going to have a spec changed to ranged a long long time ago

Like a ranged poison build

[slate marlin]

lol no

[modest river]

pistols

outlaw made range, reverse hunter

[fiery pewter]

Make throwing weapons great again

[swift tinsel]

outlaw could have been their 25yard experiment

[tepid trellis]

pre legion survival hunter says hello

[swift tinsel]

and again as dark ranger

[void ocean]

hahaha I still remember waiting to get a pet, cause my friend played hunter and was 10+ lvls above me, I was like lvl 6-7 and asked at what lvl am I gonna get the pet

[fiery pewter]

Thankfully current Survival Hunter is like my 3rd favorite spec to play

[swift tinsel]

It's quite fun, huckin bombs and doin some stabbin

[tepid trellis]

i liked the ranged version more

was pure vibes to play

[void ocean]

house of flying daggers spec

[fiery pewter]

I only played Survival after the rework so idk how it was

[swift tinsel]

Arguably the best hunter playstyle

black arrow/explosive shot was a good time

[fiery pewter]

MM is alright I guess but I don't like the spell effects, seem boring. BM is a no for me dawg

[swift tinsel]

haven't tried out 11.1 MM but for the longest time it was pretty boring imo

maintain steady focus, aimed shot, rapid fire

arcane shot

snooze

[graceful osprey]

Next year, towards the end of March, blizzard should write out a long extensive list of buffs for sub and then wait for players to realize it’s almost April fools and then on April fools week, nerf sub some more

[fiery pewter]

I think a bigger slap in the face would be to buff Aug one more time

[swift tinsel]

another 15% aura buff inc

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately perforated veins is a 0.2% talent

Which is why this doesnt end up being that great, since you need to path through an effectively dead talent

[haughty mural]

Only 2 sod

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade spending 2k valor stones and 220 crests and my assa ST sim is now over sub ST sim.

[haughty mural]

I’ve grown really fond of 3 this season

[slate marlin]

dead talent in sub tree, surprised

[haughty mural]

Vibing

[lilac stag]

poor sub cant even win in sims now

[vale pine]

we have quite some of them ^^

[slate marlin]

ye

i know thats going to be on the sub wishlist u wrote

[lilac stag]

@vale pine can you just pin this so we have something new in the channel pins?

https://giphy.com/gifs/btqU9V0Z48j3in2xBu

[void ocean]

hey did someone write that half season spec overview

[graceful osprey]

It’s okay, take your daily Copium. 11.2 surely sub will get lots of changes and buffs, surely. If not, surely blizz has stuff planned for midnight, surely

[void ocean]

lokin at u fuu

[swift tinsel]

just waiting for wowhead to post it

[lilac stag]

yes. wowhead releases it when they want to

[void ocean]

hahaha

[swift tinsel]

might be pushed back bc Turbo goes live today

[lilac stag]

i mean they have what 38 specs?

[swift tinsel]

yeah, something like that

[lilac stag]

not gonna release all on 1 day

[swift tinsel]

did a few yesterday, maybe more today

who knows, they have to drop some clickbaity ones in the mix too

[sullen hare]

It'll get pushed back until we get buffs

[lilac stag]

you'd be an idiot as far as a content manager

[delicate wind]

It would be fitting if they released it last tho

Jusssayin

[swift tinsel]

or just didn't

like our patch notes

stealthy

[delicate wind]

Insider at wowhead sent it to blizzard and they 86’ed it.

[swift tinsel]

"what subtlety spec, I don't know anything about that"

• John Blizzard

[lilac stag]

2k valor was a 86k sub upgrade and a 115k assa upgrade. neck and neck for shit scaling

[fiery pewter]

Maybe its all Blizzards plan

[sullen hare]

Release it at 2am before a big news day so it gets pushed down in the news feed on everyone's news channel in discord

[void ocean]

Blizzard doesnt have a plan

[lilac stag]

plan blizzard

[delicate wind]

Trumps next interview, “oh sub, I know sub, I’m the best at sub. What a great spec. The devs probably shouldn’t touch it if they know what’s good for them.”

[fiery pewter]

Like how they made Demo unplayable before they introduced Demon Hunters

[swift tinsel]

Stealing demon form from demo was criminal

[delicate wind]

Elon probably top sub parser in the world so it’s fine

[lilac stag]

sub getting turned into gunslinger mini ranged

so it must fully die first

[void ocean]

u mean outlaw?

[swift tinsel]

ew

[lilac stag]

nah outlaw is outlaw

[swift tinsel]

ewwwww

[fiery pewter]

Sub will embrace its true Ninja form

[void ocean]

i mean outlol has guns and pistols

[lilac stag]

killed by guns?

[delicate wind]

Outlaw has gotten so much attention just to still be unfun and not scale great

[sullen hare]

Sub getting turned into a healer that sprinkles purple onto people

[swift tinsel]

turns out sub was a log disguised as a shadow clone this whole time

[fiery pewter]

[vale pine]

:/ i won't pin memes

[lilac stag]

wdym vers scales with like 17 differnt thigns

[lilac stag]

not a meme. 📠

[graceful osprey]

Blizzard makes sub a support spec. All our CDs now affect the raid

[void ocean]

yea, lets not turn this into fdk channel

[delicate wind]

I mean it’s still falling behind. Scaling poorly with 17 things isn’t scaling well 😉

[fiery pewter]

We allow all classes to use stealthed abilities now!

[delicate wind]

But also just fix sub bc I won’t play outlaw or sin or wow at this rate

[void ocean]

perma shround even during combat

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/one-of-us-wolf-of-wall-street-wolf-of-wall-street-gif-pelf-pelfort-gif-2709546633117027040

[void ocean]

boss turning around not knowing whos attacking

[fiery pewter]

The downside is that while everyone is cloaked, only the Sub Rogue is visible

Boss must chase down the Sub Rogue to reveal everyone, its a game of cat and mouse

New tank

[swift tinsel]

more fun gameplay than Deathstalker

[delicate wind]

My new move is shrouding the raid and cancelling it as they all run up and then running away still in stealth

[void ocean]

or, 40yd range smoke bomb which makes everyone blind

[delicate wind]

See who the shitters are now

[fiery pewter]

A literal flash bang

lmao

[lilac stag]

You mean a spec that gets attention?

Would be awful

[void ocean]

bruh their pins, i gotta scroll down to find actual info 😄

[lilac stag]

you found it, so what’s the issues

[void ocean]

i lost time

[lilac stag]

Ain’t no one looking for info in here

[void ocean]

time is money

[swift tinsel]

fdk q/a pins are easy to navigate, main channel is for dicking around

no real info there

[lilac stag]

and that as well

Dk resources and discord are top tier minus the tank shit

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah I stay out of the blood channels lol

[void ocean]

i only linger in frost

[rocky ocean]

[vale pine]

smoke bomb used to be a pve thing too

then they added dh

[void ocean]

i remember

[vale pine]

suddenlly we lose our smoke bomb to whats now darkness

also warlocks their daemon form ^^

[swift tinsel]

DH is the true villain of wow

(we def didn't steal dreadblades)

[vale pine]

no idea why turning into a daemon was removed just before releasing a spec which has metamorph as a part of their toolset

[fiery pewter]

Blizzard introduces Ninja spec, sub now has to use combinations of mudras to cast certain spells/moves

[swift tinsel]

I loved the gameplay loop of demo when you'd shift into demon form, doom with Unerring Vision of Lei Shen, then get tons of imps

[vale pine]

(devs def. did not share a lot of subtlety niches with other rogue specs)

[swift tinsel]

downside of being the coolest kids on the block

in a cruel twist of fate we're going to get Shadow Form instead of Dance but its like Surrender where you get to stay in it and spend cp to extendo until you die

[vale pine]

its whatever in the end, what we need is some buffs

[swift tinsel]

ye that'd be nice

and meaningful ones

[vale pine]

like buffs to secret technique

[swift tinsel]

what about

5%

👀

[haughty mural]

So you mean just a revert ?

[void ocean]

we need a compensation for all the dmg we didnt do since 11.1 release

[swift tinsel]

yes

[void ocean]

so we gotta be 20% better than everyone else

[swift tinsel]

fuck it, if we're stuck with FW make Shadowed Finishers 60%

[haughty mural]

revert set gutting while you are at it

[haughty mural]

Based

[swift tinsel]

and make nimble shadow damage

so there's no phys reduction from mob armor

and sectech can be one big shadow hit instead of 1 phys and 2 shadow

[fiery pewter]

Give Rogues a battle rez, Cheat Death. People are only pretending to be dead, the Rogue knocks em back up

[merry agate]

Where to begin... with this specc

[swift tinsel]

Probably wowhead or IV

[merry agate]

Nah i mean changes

[swift tinsel]

I know lol

[fallow nimbus]

Reverting some nerfs and a little buff would be a start

[swift tinsel]

Revert sectech nerf and an aura buff

[merry agate]

Fugg it... let our mastery buff builders as well

Mastery - The specc

[swift tinsel]

don't buff tier set, buff spec

[fallow nimbus]

Mastery buffing snd would be a nice

[swift tinsel]

yes plz

and blacklist Skyfury autos from ShT

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

[swift tinsel]

problematic-ahh buff

[fallow nimbus]

Also give sub some talent that all crit% above 100, with cb included, gives crit dmg

[slate marlin]

make mastery affect snd

[lucid jackal]

Give it an aura buff until it's viable again idk

Don't need to reinvent the wheel really

[merry agate]

Business as usual

[lucid jackal]

Spec is fun just undertuned

[strange chasm]

preach

Sub is fun right now its just undertuned to be garbage

[lucid jackal]

For some reason every time a spec is weak people are like "we need to rework everything"

It's like idk

If sub was the best rogue spec nobody would complain

[fallow nimbus]

With some little cdr tweaks sub could shoot into godlike playing style

[strange chasm]

its doesnt need any tweaks in my mind. It just needs some numbers buff

[alpine wraith]

i mean sub talents suck a lot

but gameplay is fine if you dont have time just aura buff as always

[lucid jackal]

Would anybody care about that if sub was overtuned and the best rogue spec

[fallow nimbus]

Having constant 2 dances between cds would be huge qol

[alpine wraith]

depends cata rogues have some ideas

about dogshit ass gamplay

vs performance

[fallow nimbus]

2 guaranteed with extra to fire everything when boss is about to die

[alpine wraith]

i have just learned that the dances in between dont even matter anyway

they are cosmetic

[slate marlin]

sub is top tier fun wise

extremely undertuned

[alpine wraith]

i just wish we had no split dmg bs and other things like more compact burst

[slate marlin]

and in need of some minir changes

[alpine wraith]

24 secs is a long time

[lucid jackal]

Idk I think the fact that sod and dance are different cooldowns and aren't just perma used together

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah but having more dances to use for add spawns is better

[void hound]

i like that personally

[alpine wraith]

i can feel it in mug zee get into gaol use 1 dance

[hazy breach]

I think that theyre not different enough

[alpine wraith]

mob still at like 30 to 40%

[slate marlin]

theres 0 need to rework all, except ds

[alpine wraith]

zzzzzzzz

[hazy breach]

Either make them more seperate or make them line up better

[vale pine]

some qol chages would be very welcome

[alpine wraith]

yea shadowcraft is cool and all

[lucid jackal]

Qol changes would always be welcome

[alpine wraith]

but also makes energy talents pointless

and other things

[hazy breach]

But like, even with the current low tuning sub still has among the highest burst in the game (and if tank a little bit of overall damage it can be the highest)

And its independant of BL, which is insane

[alpine wraith]

yea top 8 burst

kinda good