so for sub yes it’s good. It’s not bis
#subtlety
junior prawn
i will keep my transmitter in bags so i can get that toy 1 day
hazy breach
Just spam it in dornogal if youre in queue or waiting for something
Its not that rare
junior prawn
i thought u need to be in combat
brave moth
Wait what transmitter toy
junior prawn
i been using it since season 1 havent seen the mob spawn once 
hazy breach
Well it never spawns in dungeons or raids
junior prawn
oh
hazy breach
Needs to be out in the open world
junior prawn
That makes sense then , thanks
brave moth
Didnt even know this thing exists kekw
Might try to get it before I delete transmitter once I get HoC
junior prawn
Also would the pvp trinket also work same spot as HoC in rotation with shadowblades ? or do i send it with 1st sec tech ?
graceful crown
If I already have hc HoC should I just get jastor with the new system thing coming out soon
Where u can buy a myth piece
I'm kind of stacked out
hazy breach
Also would the pvp trinket also work same spot as HoC in rotation with shadowbla...
Ye macro it with blades
junior prawn
Ye macro it with blades
Aight , thanks 🫡
lilac stag
Just slam a training dummy with transmitter in SW or Org. Pops up quick enough typically
junior prawn
Currently trying to use some pandaria proving ground method because it resets the trinket cd
lilac stag
It won’t trigger in an instance
junior prawn
Ye thats why i leave it then proc it in open world , enter proving grounds , quit , trink resets , repeat
vestal escarp
🤯
tribal blade
Is sub still similiar playstyle to DF?
in some ways yes, but it's gone through changes
most notably flag and blades are synced to 1.5 mins
and symbols now can have x3 charges
which changes the cd management quite a bit
proper stone
mmk, tyty
tribal blade
the main issue sub is having in keys atm is the aoe is subpar
the ST is very good though
and the cleave is pretty good with trickster
so sub is a good spec in workshop and top
all the other dungeons it's a bit of a struggle to keep up with high performing specs
hazy breach
The burst just isnt strong enough to warrant the low damage outside of the burst
Sub is still fine if you pull somewhat around it, but it doesnt do enough to make that worthwhile
short radish
Hello all, is sub in m+ competetive with sin?
if youre doing weekly 10s
then sub is fine
void ocean
if youre doing weekly 10s
and if u dont care being beaten by a war tank 😄
basically not having an ego is good
rocky ocean
short radish
i can finally turn details on this tier though since augs dont exist
tribal blade
any time i play sub without a shammy i want to off myself
alpine wraith
i still find funny
how our burst is beat by a random proc
now they have nerfed it a lot still but i find it silly
lilac stag
Our fall to absolute darkness of the bottom will be complete. I can then get asked in guild why am I still playing sub.
lucid jackal
Its actually insane how broken dev is, and people think aug has a chance in raid
Dev is literally the hero class rn
lilac stag
there will always be people looking to play hipster. Just need enough of them to show up on logs.
short radish
pretty sure he was playing it because he didnt know how to play dev
i stg if aug comes back
im gonna uninstall details in protest
that'll show blizzard
hazy breach
Ive heard augs also do some cringe 2+2 set stuff
So if you didnt play dragon during s1 you cant get 639s
lucid jackal
https://www.wowhead.com/item=226810/infiltrators-shroud
fallow nimbus
Better late than never
upper narwhal
I used the Proving Grounds strat to reset the cd over and over, saved hours
upper narwhal
Sub is a support spec
strange chasm
inbound 15% buff for sub surely?
upper narwhal
you emotionally support your other dps by making it look like they pump
lilac stag
nah you support your melee by getting rid of parry
solemn creek
What is that 😅 i looked at sprocket 1 week 95 percentil.. and its not really better. Considering we have 100% uptime on that fight
strange chasm
95th percent after this week
vale pine
unsurprisingly
if you buff everything else, the one you don't buff is suddenly not good
empty cargo
Hey gang. What tier ring(s) replaces circlet?
hazy breach
Like 675
empty cargo
Damn okay thanks
lilac stag
You’ll likely find it worth replacing with turbo. The 675/678 stuff is really close still.
alpine wraith
nah circe forever
just stack 34k mastery
and crit every finisher
every tick of rupture
just
hit
hazy breach
Biggest single crit number you can get as a rogue is unfortunately envenom
slate marlin
After all its envenom, the spec
lilac stag
I swear it does more in game than sims show
hollow plinth
What does
hazy breach
Envenom
strange chasm
that thing smacks
hazy breach
Its probably some jank with twist the knife double envenom stacks being up more ingame than in sims
hazy breach
All the modifiers work as expected when ive checked, so my guess its that its some jank with the pandemic-ironfur type effect that sometimes makes it last longer than it should or something
But i didnt find anything when i checked 
lilac stag
just be outlaw and not have 38 interacting multipliers
Come back when KS is deleted from trickster
hollow plinth
soon
lilac stag
don’t tease me
violet torrent
Must stay sub for all of this tier
I'm on Gally so it's all downhill.
Coasting to the CE finish line
lilac stag
we’re on locken. So it really doesn’t matter. OAB will run sub. Mugzie who know what kill times look like in a few weeks
violet torrent
With ilvl and buffs yeah
lyric lily
!wa
wicked joltBOT
violet torrent
I was fine on oab and mugzee I just made it my job to break out my group from the last gaol lol
lyric lily
Should we be applying the dot to everything or just like 5-6?
lilac stag
If it lives after cd window for 12 seconds rupture it.
lyric lily
Ah okay
random hare
rememberedwhat
tardy badge
details profile 🙏
tardy badge
kk
tardy badge
LMAO
vestal escarp
not the statistics cropped screenshots 😭😭😭😭😭😭
junior prawn
Hope i wont need the toy in a future and i can either play race or an Ethereal class
vale pine
etheral would be such a great race also fits the xpac
bleak night
yeah but transmog wouldnt work and blizzard would never make a race that transmog doesnt work on
vale pine
right, they would also never create a race that looks like featherless chicken AND can't transmog
junior prawn
i been hopeing and praying for Ethereals as a race or class it became an obsession
Cant wait to play Ethereal Sub (Reworked) Void Rogue in pre patch for Midnight 
vestal relic
!tott
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
My once a tier twitter plea.
sullen hare
literal skeleton at the bottom of the lake
bright sundial
My once a tier twitter plea.
oh you didnt know that i heard a rumor that in midnight were getting a buff/rework/redesign and removed
lilac stag
I’ve asked for the spec to be deleted and that goes no where
the next rework is due for the let’s try 95% shadow dance uptime again and finishers do no dmg.
keen dome
I will never be free
An hour long panel at PAX this weekend?
An hour long panel announcing how cool Sub is gonna be, more likely!
lilac stag
Next Sub Rogue dev attention with be a housing decoration of a retirement plaque with the release date of midnight when the spec was finally removed from the game.
clever delta
miss sub already
in just week with the ilvl increase
we will be down even more
😄
void hound
just remove sub already tbh
kind bluff
This is my first season as a rogue and I'm loving sub to be honest
Most fun I've had in ages
leaden prairie
My once a tier twitter plea.
less damage than aug 
keen dome
just turn the chart upside down, it's fine
kind bluff
And I'm finally trialing with a guild starting next week. So woot woot. No more pugging hell.
kind bluff
Lol
fiery pewter
This is my first season as a rogue and I'm loving sub to be honest
Sub is a lot of fun when you get the hang of it. I spent some time playing assassination and nearly fell asleep
kind bluff
I've really excelled at it. Which is part of the fun. But I'm really loving it.
I was gonna make an argument that the top aug hasn't beat the top sub on that fight you linked a log for. But in fact 4 augs beat the top sub rogue on sprocket 😦
This is unacceptable someone call blizz
We demand answers!
lilac stag
Set WCL to 95th percentile. Enter depression corridor.
kind bluff
I was looking at the 100% but not the 2 week setting the overall.
And now I'm sad.
I didn't think an aug could kick the shit out of us on that fight. But there are several.
We must riot
keen dome
I just did a Locken Heroic kill and there are only 1.8k Sub logs, lmao
Can more people play Sub on the boss so I can parse more easily please
kind bluff
I've got my locken parse. I struggle with oab. Pugging it just hasn't given me good kill times. And when I do have a record pull someone wipes it and the group insta disbands.
Hopefully being in a guild now Will help, their avg kill time is a min and a half faster than my kill times -.-
daring raptor
How have they not touched sub rogue for this many weeks?
twilit phoenix
How have they not touched sub rogue for this many weeks?
we got all the tuning we need in week one
(using season 1 data)
lilac stag
mmhm
kind bluff
Damn
lilac stag
Idk ignored seems better than random ass BP buff at this point.
merry umbra
BP was even weaker?!
lilac stag
yes
hollow spear
playing devoker I think
kind bluff
For rik I'm trying to use dance during the second add phase but I've missed my last sectec due to it. Are we hoping for good procs or do we skip delaying our cds for second add set?
vale pine
not even with cloak right
never could, its a bit sad that they nerfed it tho
bright sundial
Idk ignored seems better than random ass BP buff at this point.
nah keep buffing bp to the point where we go DS and spaming ss into bp ST
warm marlin
For rik I'm trying to use dance during the second add phase but I've missed my l...
cold blood the first sectec
if you don't get the second one off its not a huge deal
assuming you're talking about the second flag window
kind bluff
I am
round latch
My once a tier twitter plea.
twilit phoenix
BP buff when?
gritty knot
anyone else here rocking keys as sub to kanye wests new song released today? it's a banger
jk. This guy is nuts xD
gritty knot
Am I allowed to post that link from X here? propably not I guess
void ocean
gritty knot
I need confirmation first so I don't get permabanned, I still need this discord 😄
gritty knot
cant see anything
void ocean
im joking 😄
gritty knot
ye i know me 2 😄
void ocean
have no idea
lilac stag
Am I allowed to post that link from X here? propably not I guess
As long as it’s not against tos you’re fine
gritty knot
well that song is banned on literally every music streaming platform so idk bout that 😄
lilac stag
that would be a no then
next lotus
is sub in a good spot for high keys this season?
wide kernel
Cmlo got 3.60 overall on brew like a month ago as sub
Wonder if it's possible atm to break 4mil
void ocean
had 4.6M overall in Priory 10 as bleed assa, used DM only on bosses 😄
maybe on first pull too, cant recall
fckin faceroll
random hare
best prepatch nerf of all time blizzard
good nerfs u did this season
very smart
sterile kiln
leaden plover
Sub is good🙂
upper narwhal
Sub is a support spec, you can shroud, you can kidney, you can spam cheap shot in dance
very good support spec
you make your other dps feel good about themselves
emotional support very important
you can even remove parry in raid
wide kernel
Well I said Aug was gonna beat sub
It's gonna be wild when next tuning patch comes and sub is literally at the bottom and we get nothing
leaden plover
you make your other dps feel good about themselves
Exactly😅
wide kernel
Why does the sub guide say (outside of shadow dance) -> black powder only IF not in flawless form with 7+ targets
But I hear from this channel I need to black powder on 5 targets with FW
graceful osprey
pliant topaz
Why does the sub guide say (outside of shadow dance) -> black powder only IF not...
Because tracking the number of FW you have out is hard and computationally taxing on your WA set which fucks your frames. So they simplified the ruling
wide kernel
If your storm crits... does it not just crit everything?
pliant topaz
Crit is per target
Only situation it crits on everything is if u storm with rotten active ( consumes ALL) rotten stacks but all hits of storm crit
wide kernel
I see
And the difference between 8 bp with FW is probably not much different from eviscerate hitting 7 right
Trying to optimize my dps outside of dance, some of my parses look so meh compared to the better sub rogues atm
But in that same line of thinking, isn't it kinda bad to keep hitting backstab in aoe situations to proc FF since it has a CD?
nocturne marsh
Does cloak allow you to soak mines on mythic mugzee? Do you get booped?
hazy breach
They do physical damage, so no
nocturne marsh
Logs say fire damage
hazy breach
Fairly sure its split like 50/50
Ive heard evasion works though
If youre facing the correct way
Cant confirm as i havent done it myself
short radish
Does cloak allow you to soak mines on mythic mugzee? Do you get booped?
confirming you can evasion
you will be booped in the air
short radish
goes through cheat death 🙂
hazy breach
Ye because cheat is only 2x your health
obtuse shard
Get longer cloak and use both eva and cloak then u can soak 3 mines
hazy breach
In reality you should not be the one responsible to trigger the mines
But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do ig
obtuse shard
My guild cook some stuffs and only 1 tank this so others need to do some jobs lol
short radish
yuge
warm depot
bleak night
lol
pearl swan
worn ivy
Not bad in aoe
pliant topaz
just seems that even though theres a fuck ton of talents in the trees, blizzard is really bad at using the proper levers to tune specs
like they keep falling back into buffing the same 3 core spells
just really mind boggling how bad the system is
tribal blade
like they keep falling back into buffing the same 3 core spells
if they went about tuning sub with different spells they'd have to put actual time into it
which is unacceptable
pliant topaz
i dont think its just sub
like i havent really followed up with any tuning, but its like most specs just have core buttons and those get tuned.
but theres a lot of levers in talent trees that could be fucked with
but i guess its hard to measure the impact of them sometimes if youre not simming.
even if youre simming sometimes, apl changes and new finds could be a lot bigger than you expected
tribal blade
like i havent really followed up with any tuning, but its like most specs just h...
ahhh i see
alpine wraith
maybe one day they buff evis
sec tech is already a lost cause they only nerf it
i love being top 10 burst
worn ivy
Maybe
keen dome
delete the hard cap on everything
tribal blade
delete the hard cap on everything
t r u e
short radish
yeah why the fuck are there soft/hard caps on 90% of abilities
then some abilities are uncapped
and do infinite damage
keen dome
Not really sure how I feel about yet another item like the circlet. Esp after Blizz just argued people shouldn't have Mythic items via the currency by using an example of someone never swapping off something during a tier
And now people'll probably be using the ring and the belt in S3 lmao
keen dome
It feels completely arbitary
cloud rover
change nimble to be soft capped at 8 targets
Flurry mechanics and being hardcapped, Name a better duo 
Oh yeahb
Rogue and no tuning
lucid jackal
And now people'll probably be using the ring *and* the belt in S3 lmao
I think with the ilvl bump every spec will drop circlet at this point
keen dome
I'm curious to see if that does happen, yeah. I expect most will
but I'm also willing to bet 5 whole gold that there'll be one spec that doesn't
But I can bet you that there are more casual players who'll simply never replace it all season as they don't get gilded, etc. And go into S3 using it. And that is explictly what Blizz argued against giving them Myth items for. It's just.. really funny to me.
spark tusk
lucid jackal
I think there's a diff argument to be made in regards to things like circlet, and dinar vensor
keen dome
Sure, I think there is too. I just think their specific argument about why people can't buy Myth items is pretty bad when.. motions to Circlet / belt
It's just a bad argument on their behalf.
(Esp as if you look at it further the same players they're somehow worried about won't replace a Heroic one anyway so it's a moot point)
I am curious about the Belt not having Stamina and I assume that's going to be a way to try and get people to replace it sooner than the circlet. But it does have mainstat.
bleak night
bro i dont give a fuck about the belt not having stamina
thats the healers problem fr
im too busy doing damage
keen dome
Haha
bleak night
my favorite part of that clip will always be him starting up ffxiv mid rant lmao
jaunty heath
but I'm also willing to bet 5 whole gold that there'll be one spec that doesn't
Boomkin apparently doesn’t 
remote shuttle
never could, its a bit sad that they nerfed it tho
Evasion could, not cloak till couple weeks ago iirc
vale pine
exactly
steel zinc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl3DgJ7e5Gg
To be fair wow endgame is just doing dps and everything else boils down to supporting a dps player to do more dps. If this is not the case the encounter, tank or healer is not doing its support role
vale pine
cloak never worked on it
tribal blade
To be fair wow endgame is just doing dps and everything else boils down to suppo...
he was reacting here to sylvanas
where you needed to hold damage at some point in P1
i think you didn't want to go into a chain set too fast
steel zinc
he was reacting here to sylvanas
Encounter
Yeah I know the clip
But any dps stop boss is just bad
tribal blade
oh i didn't see you write encounter too
steel zinc
Encounter is just a glorified target dummy imo. Obviously more fun but at its core both are the same
remote shuttle
exactly
Wad using it at 1st stun on pull... Suddenly last time i went there got stunned... Bliz, just why? 😂😭
haughty mural
Finally
wraith solstice
Hello, i put a log of mine in the WoWanalyzer thing and it marks all my Shadowblades as bad bc i press Blades Symbols dance instead of Symbols Dance Blade. Is there any difference if you first press blades or first press dance?
plush roost
Hello, i put a log of mine in the WoWanalyzer thing and it marks all my Shadowbl...
Most people dance+symbols, shadowstrike, then sectec+blades
Since you're wasting your premeditation buff
tepid trellis
Hello, i put a log of mine in the WoWanalyzer thing and it marks all my Shadowbl...
Wowanalyzer isn’t kept up to date
Just fyi
alpine wraith
dont worry it can go further
because augs can get more mastery now too
with turbo
keen dome
Look if we go down far enough we'll overflow
Then we'll do 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 damage.
short radish
just in time for us to get another nerf week -1 of next season
remote shuttle
Do you guys think they keep us low in tier list because corruption will superbuff us? Like it did prev....? Just wondering and wishing... @exotic holly @alpine wraith @tepid trellis what does your knowledge say?
short radish
keen dome
I think they keep us low because they fear our power
Although if we look at Shdow Priest.....
Maybe they just don't like purple power classes??
north schooner
corruptions will come with a hidden +7% BP buff
remote shuttle
Will Gushing Wounds be that superOP? 🧐
Or devastation, idk which one we'll use... Joined wow in DF after a year of tbc eons ago... So never played Bfa corruptions...
keen dome
It won't be like BfA, sadly
alpine wraith
Do you guys think they keep us low in tier list because corruption will superbuf...
lolno just we have low numbers
alpine wraith
we will use void ritual like everyone
hollow spear
I don't know how corruption would superbuff us. I'd bet it helps other classes more than it does sub.
remote shuttle
Sad... A guy in my guild told me to relax cuz if we are last on dps and still untuned, probably was because of corruption effect incoming and overbuffing us... As i see is time to wake up from dream 😂😭
hollow spear
They usually get more damage out of secondaries than we do 😄
keen dome
Sad... A guy in my guild told me to relax cuz if we are last on dps and still un...
I admire their hope
they're cool
remote shuttle
They don't play sub, that's why I guess... They just don't know 😭
remote shuttle
They usually get more damage out of secondaries than we do 😄
Maybe more proc rate on us? Idk just wondering
hollow spear
Nope
remote shuttle
I see... Bye bye dreams
hollow spear
Offtopic question: what's currently the fastest way to farm valorstones?
rocky ocean
short radish
Offtopic question: what's currently the fastest way to farm valorstones?
run a heroic raid
then normal raid
assuming you 1shot everything
light jetty
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wraith solstice
Season 3 will be ours
alpine wraith
give night calling back big baller scaling
lilac stag
Don’t worry titan belt gives us over 100% vers. Scaling back on the table.
grave shore
hard to tune spec withnout any scaling
Idk
Looks like not so hard
Give back 10 stacks of set
Give back +% to sec tech
And tune backstab and rupture to put some more dps without Dance between burst
short radish
delete backstab
lilac stag
adjust dance CDR .1/.2, fuck FW off a cliff.
short radish
delete FW
grave shore
Delete sub
clever delta
its scaling issue
lilac stag
Delete skyfury requirement
clever delta
we were doing fine first week or two
and when ppl get gear we fall down with every reset
vernal junco
just bring dust back in some simplified form
clever delta
our upgrades were like 0.5-1% range at best and others had 3-4%
vernal junco
like granting 2 stacks of sod when activating Flag, and 1 stack of sd when activating Shadow Blades.
lilac stag
Well, when you carry a trinket over that is still better than s2 mythic trinkets and can get a 1h mythic weapon. It’s easy to look good.
short radish
damn are you saying that we were really really strong week -1 of the patch because we had 30% of our BiS gear already?
lilac stag
Weird
short radish
and that we didnt have as much room to improve on gear
as much as other classes did
clever delta
so we crafted dagger had transmitter and 4set first week and that was our only power spike
no more big upgrades were on table
short radish
damn thats crazy how could blizzard have ever seen this coming
lilac stag
Ikr
void hound
delete sub
clever delta
yeah poor scaling
void hound
make rogue a two spec class
clever delta
yes pls
sub need some attention
but in blizzard eyes its propably lower prio than fucking surv hunter
clever delta
so did outlaw
look if you were in top 20 guild and cleared raid soon enough
you could have fun on every boss as sub
if not you missed that window and griefing the guild playing sub .D
clever delta
yeah
short radish
good sub player is better than a bad assi player
clever delta
😛
short radish
and average players in general that were probably doing mechanics that i wasnt
lilac stag
The 80 people playing outlaw in mythic and 100 playing sub.
dreamy badger
sub was fine until lockenstock imo
clever delta
would be among top on mugzze too if i did not die 😄
lilac stag
I love rng blindside simulator.
dreamy badger
not as bad as crit rng on sectech imo
lilac stag
It’s worse
dreamy badger
you just have to accept that sometimes you auto attack for a couple of seconds xdd
clever delta
We killed locken before asaa buff and sub was little ahead
That was my last sub fight
Well I started bandit as sub and swapped after buff to asaa
night sparrow
wild hornet
So glad I'm gone from transmitter
wild hornet
Having to stand on the platform while tank pulls the mobs away from it is hell
cloud rover
so glad not to use Transmitter
night sparrow
We killed Bandit last night, still no HoC, sticking to transmitter till next week
cloud rover
We did reclears until Bandit was dead
so we got 2 choices of potential bandit loot
and we hit 4 HoCs
with that
night sparrow
grave shore
With this new statistic we have some chances to be buffed
May be not next week but 1 or 2 more
When they will see that 684 gear didn’t up us as other specks and we still at the bottom
short radish
With this new statistic we have some chances to be buffed
May be not next week ...
if they didnt see it for the last 8 weeks
they wont see it for the next 8 weeks
hazy breach
With this new statistic we have some chances to be buffed
May be not next week ...
Weve been second and fourth from the bottom during the previous buffs
grave shore
if they didnt see it for the last 8 weeks
Sub was above aug
Some things changed now 😂
exotic kelp
Is this real?
grave shore
Is this real?
Ye
Did this screenshot just yesterday
wild hornet
Why is sub below aug
short radish
because we're shit
and blizzard hates us
and the sooner you can accept that
the less painful it will be
hazy breach
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384115523677585408/1367990567048581212/image.png?ex=681f29bf&is=681dd83f&hm=31ebdcd0b8141649dd89774d349ec0d911f0a431b19155f2c613542c7d78713f&
This is from last week with all the specs getting buffed having a plus next to it
short radish
to be fair frost mage got buffed on a nothing hero talent
that still wont be played
so they'll probably join us 2nd from the bottom next week
leaden prairie
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384115523677585408/1367990567048581212/im...
Skill issue
wild hornet
and the sooner you can accept that
Well as long as I get oranges and the others get below purples I'm contempt
grave shore
For me personally
Before my guild didn’t ask me to swap the spec - I’ll play sub
We not so try hard so I allowed play sub now
hazy breach
Skill issue
Truly
grave shore
I told my officers I'm perm benching myself if I get forced to play assa
Gj
Respect
😂
wide kernel
is fury of the stormrook worth considering at all since it doesnt interfere with tier?
merry umbra
Well as long as I get oranges and the others get below purples I'm contempt
your accidental wrong word changes that sentence significantly
wild hornet
Which?
merry umbra
content = just about satisfied, contempt is basically the opposite
wide kernel
is the 0/3 tier set from crafted gear not worth it at all? it's like free 3k haste and same stat amount
wild hornet
content = just about satisfied, contempt is basically the opposite
Doesn't contempt also count as a way of disregard
short radish
would you go out of your way to pick up 3 cents
wild hornet
would you go out of your way to pick up 3 cents
Yes
wide kernel
14 danage oer point, 3.1k stat
short radish
same tbh
wide kernel
so like 42k dps which is just under 2%?
short radish
but yeah its kinda worthless
wide kernel
we do worse things for 2%
short radish
pretty sure that crafted gear
takes up an embelishment slot
if its what im thinking of
merry umbra
Doesn't contempt also count as a way of disregard
kinda but i don't think it fits in your context, but maybe it does, it's an uncommon word to use
wild hornet
At least you understood the context which matters most
But I don't understand who's secretly sandbagging us
grave shore
@vale pine
Brother , hello!
Sorry for bother you , but , haven’t u made sims with +6itlvl and corrupts yet?
gritty knot
Fuu rerolled to aug. He's gone lad
vale pine
<@194804407706189824>
Brother , hello!
Sorry for bother you , but , haven’t u ...
haven't added them to the sheet yet
aug lol
haha
wild hornet
Augmentation rogue
wide kernel
well, if you squint flag is similiar to aug because it kills the mob faster so the tank takes less damage
wide kernel
Or just tell the rest to stop dps
we're already doing that and still behind aug 🤔
hazy breach
is the 0/3 tier set from crafted gear not worth it at all? it's like free 3k has...
Its not free, as it costs 2 embellishments. It also requires you to soak an electic orb that spawns randomly around you every ~40 second or so and its not up all the time
sly shore
and it gives haste
lilac stag
perfect sub rogue embellishments.
hazy breach
Ye but even for a spec that likes haste isnt not great
lilac stag
we’ve gotten to the level of despair that we’re trying to force haste proc gear to work.
At this point it should be quite obvious that our APL is 
ing and PVP players are also ing. There’s just some hidden tech that only blizzard devs know that will skyrocket our dps to the tippy top of the charts. 📈🚫🧢
tribal blade
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384115523677585408/1367990567048581212/im...
are we being beaten by augs yet
hazy breach
Yes chef
tribal blade
i was queueing for keys earlier and saw yoda on his alt dk
with an aug in the group
i guess it's happening
hazy breach
But like, dev is insanely good so why bother with aug
tribal blade
it was just a 16 cinder
tribal blade
But like, dev is insanely good so why bother with aug
TRUE
i find it highly ironic that they decided to put aug into the dirt
and made dev the best raid spec to compensate
wild hornet
But like, dev is insanely good so why bother with aug
I'd take an aug just to boost my own damage
tribal blade
you say that until nothing is dying
wild hornet
Well obv if it's a 18
But mine was a 12/13
So I didn't have much issues
3rd DPS needs to be something like enha though
tribal blade
just a crumb of skyfury dear sir
lilac stag
delete skyfury reliance
tribal blade
please
for the love of god
let us be rid of this curse
last season it was less bad because there was a shammy in every group without fail
this season not so much
wild hornet
delete skyfury reliance
Delete sky fury
slate marlin
they are a lot more likely to remove sub
rocky ocean
slate marlin
A dps spec that deals less dmg than aug
has already been removed
incoming ranged rogue spec
graceful crown
Imagine a hunter with the mobility and speed of a rogue and with combo points
i would
lilac stag
so arcane mage
patent crystal
they won't remove subtlety
they forgot we exist, too stealthy
lilac stag
bonus. You get visuals
vale pine
graceful crown
so arcane mage
a mage has the mobility of a rogue?
and no casting i mean like a melee but with range
jaunty heath
and no casting i mean like a melee but with range
Thats just BM Hunter without the combo points
And yes mage has the mobility of a rogue
Way more actually
graceful crown
o_o
more base speed, 2 hooks and sprint and no need to cast, mage has more mobility?
idk bout that
rocky ocean
also scurvy
warm marlin
Outlaw has better mobility than mage but the other 2 are kinda slow ngl
warm marlin
yea it’s sort of dependent on if you need the blink or not
warm marlin
Outlaw can cross gaps and such
random hare
Its only grappling hook
Doesnt have anything else anymore
They removed step
Outlaw felt nice with shadowstep tho
Now its kinda wack
hollow spear
Feels like hook also bugs way more often than blink would
swift tinsel
blink will at least send you partially when it fails by hitting a tiny edged surface
jaunty heath
Outlaw hook and sprint cdr is good
swift tinsel
instead of outright fail like hook
jaunty heath
But I’m no pirate all I have is step and sprint on a cd
hollow spear
Pray for an evoker
lilac stag
People really don’t get how arcane is just a better version of sub
paper iron
altertime refunding a blind charge also
graceful osprey
Does outlaw still play that between the eyes build? I tried that before and never liked it
fallow nimbus
Can you hook through beams? Mage wins
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
vale pine
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lucid jackal
Does outlaw still play that between the eyes build? I tried that before and neve...
yes
graceful osprey
Ahh man, I know this is the sub channel but man I really dislike how outlaw plays right now.
random hare
Ahh man, I know this is the sub channel but man I really dislike how outlaw play...
R1 ravenholdt outlaw chatter here, dont mess with us chexk.. how dare u say those words to my spec
I CALLED FOR BACKUP FROM https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923682607857685
random hare
YES
leaden prairie
Ahh man, I know this is the sub channel but man I really dislike how outlaw play...
same
paper iron
and they re right to do so
random hare
GGOGOGOGO
paper iron
fk outlaw fk killing spree
random hare
BUT
paper iron
Nerf outlaw in fact
paper iron
wait what
random hare
SEE
paper iron
crackshot goated
random hare
@graceful osprey we wont go down this easily sub guy
graceful osprey
lol maybe just a me thing but I never got the outlaw rotation down fully. I haven’t touched seriously since it was changed from combat to outlaw and trying it out in war within felt completely different to me
random hare
Ur trying outlaw at it’s worst iteration of all time
fiery pewter
Ahh man, I know this is the sub channel but man I really dislike how outlaw play...
Rather play Outlaw than fall asleep playing Assassination though
vestal escarp
KS fun
death gamba
the friction on trickster priority for builders a little bit less
vale pine
KS probably needs a rework
wicked urchin
Phew, my heroic mugzee locked in
first rank 1 on heroic ever
now for mythic, one day
lilac stag
first rank 1 on heroic ever
Hate to break it to you, but we only celebrate gray parses in this channel.
only 300k behind outlaw and assa. 
serene notch
Hate to break it to you, but we only celebrate gray parses in this channel.
Got you covered fam
manic sierra
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sharp lake
There’s a website where you can see where top players are sending cooldowns by boss, which one is it?
sharp lake
tyty
proper latch
Phew, my heroic mugzee locked in
Did you soak prisons?
thin sinew
This reminds me of how good i was doing on Stix mythic on every single pull attempt and the one we finally kill the bastard i get 2 balls and slaps me to an 85 💀
proper latch
This reminds me of how good i was doing on Stix mythic on every single pull atte...
I got 98 by accidentatly hitting the boss with the ball
thin sinew
my brain went inside itself when you said hitting the boss with the boss xD
proper latch
I spent 5 hours in PSF today, sorry
thin sinew
oof
85 is still my first reasonable high parse on a prog kill. i know it's nothing to write home about but still
haughty rose
any tipps on top logs for mug in HC? i kinda capped at 2,1m
lilac stag
any tipps on top logs for mug in HC? i kinda capped at 2,1m
you kill times matter more than anything else
proper latch
So... Are we expecting 20% BP buff or 25%?
proper latch
tbf i only care for logs after bandit is dead
Yeah, Stix and Rik are meme bosses
hazy breach
So... Are we expecting 20% BP buff or 25%?
Unless its also accompanied by an eviscerate buff i do not want BP to be buffed really
Id prefer just an aura buff
random hare
@hazy breach
bleak night
Buff sectec by 600%
random hare
how do i play this build again, 1 dance between cds thats it?
hazy breach
Yes
vale pine
secret buff is fine
bp is too close to evis value, if you buff it too much
we migth just use it on st
hazy breach
Why is there Master of shadows though, should probably be replicating instead
fierce ivy
with shuriken storm 🤓
hazy breach
Wait deathstalker 
proper latch
What about tea with Deathstalker?
alpine wraith
nonono
hazy breach
Trickster bursts
alpine wraith
trickster is more burst
hazy breach
Deathstalker does way less st
alpine wraith
DS is autottacks are strong
random hare
can u send me now
build
im in dire need
of the build rn
we're sending a 19 key now
alpine wraith
trickster does not change anything
hazy breach
Idk search for when i sent you it the last time
random hare
CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2mBAAAAAALjZWmGzswDMzYMMzYmZGGz2YGzYbmZMzMjBsMbDAAAgZGMAGzmhBGYW0CtYDG
alpine wraith
you get the bird buff and it bugs out and you can use tfd every time
random hare
found it
random hare
yes
alpine wraith
well you can still use 1 dance without CB
alpine wraith
MoS would still be worse
random hare
i will play it on the 2-3 packs before the boss
too
the last boss area
so
1 dance between flags
ye?
thats all?
any other minmaxes
proper latch
Take shadow focus maybe instead of improved shuriken storm
alpine wraith
sometimes you can do 1 but it is better to not do
so you can triple dance the vuln
random hare
wdym better not to send 1
alpine wraith
not send more than 1
alpine wraith
english
hazy breach
Take shadow focus maybe instead of improved shuriken storm
Nah shadow focus is pointless
warm marlin
send 1 dance between, start stacking sht with 0 cp once you have farmed enough cdr, vanish -> ss -> flag with full stuff up
hazy breach
If you ever press even a single storm youd rather have imp storm, sim can barely tell SF and nonsf apart
random hare
alpine wraith
just begin stacking sht like when you see shield low
so you can begin burst with 10 or so
at least
plush roost
he plays with arms war
so shield should line at 1:30 like every time
its pretty good for sub tbh
alpine wraith
you can also prep coup
plush roost
i start stacking shadow tech with 15 seconds left
alpine wraith
but idk
warm marlin
probably also rupture spam to keep tier
plush roost
and prepping coup is 100% worth it
warm marlin
if you're full maxxing burst
slate marlin
Why not go standard build tho?
plush roost
Like subs shield dps just does not matter
its all about that burn
when ur with arms dk
slate marlin
1 more sod with more duration on tricster is good
plush roost
since dk needs to hit for stacks
alpine wraith
yea not playing extra SoD i think is wrong
warm marlin
oh ye u need triple sod if ur gonna triple dance right
alpine wraith
you still want to triple dance on vuln
alpine wraith
@random hare get 1 on symbols
random hare
<@1172550924519080006> get 1 on symbols
how
u mean 1 more?
point
to death precetpption
?
hazy breach
That build is like 0.5% worse on pure ST
hazy breach
But were not talking about pure st
slate marlin
btw wouldnt rs be a lot better thsn planned execution?
specially with 1 less sod charge
proper latch
Drop DB for another SoD charge
hazy breach
No
random hare
so
plush roost
i dont think he can take 3 charges
random hare
what am i doing
plush roost
if he wants db
plush roost
This just seems correct to me for burst window
random hare
basically
i want the build to take off the boss's hp by around 5-7%
compared to default
will this do it?
plush roost
only thing i wonder is if the 20% rupture ticks over 20 seconds is better than 6% crit
hazy breach
only thing i wonder is if the 20% rupture ticks over 20 seconds is better than 6...
No, 6% crit significantly better
plush roost
bet i dont know how the math maths during burst window
warm marlin
much more than build I feel burst dmg on that boss is about prep
hazy breach
But the problem is that pe costs 2 talent points
random hare
ok chat
hazy breach
Because imp sht isnt great
random hare
eleem
warm marlin
if you're going in with triple dance + pot + full 14 sht + coup + tier you're going to do infinite
hazy breach
Wait no just skip the third charge and go dB
alpine wraith
oh yea that one works too
random hare
Wait no just skip the third charge and go dB
u sure?
slate marlin
No, 6% crit significantly better
wait really? i didnt think 6% crit was that big
alpine wraith
well for burst it is better than rs
and you lose wm not a big casualty anyway
dog ass talent
random hare
btw
the boss should last few seconds longer than the 2nd symbols
shouldnt it be worth to just pick 3rd symbols
warm marlin
that is certainly my thinking, wouldn't expect dark brew to outweigh another symbols + 6 extra cp via supercharge, plus it would mean ur 3rd dance doesn't have a symbols cast with it
but eleem would know better
alpine wraith
triple dance triple symbols goes hard but
but also
last dance is not as strong as the other 2
maybe amping those is better with db
hazy breach
Again, its like 0.5% behind on pure ST but the burst is slightly higher
If PV was an actual dps increase it would be good for everything
vale pine
PV is another dead node sadly
alpine wraith
https://www.wowhead.com/news/testing-the-durable-information-securing-container-disc-belt-coming-in-patch-11-376796?utm_source=discord-webhook big mastery proc rejoice
fiery pewter
Big money
oak grotto
Do you guys use Augment rune in dungeons?
red cloud
No one is stopping you from doing so
alpine wraith
no i will
tell me next time you go into a dungeon
i will try to stop you from using it
oak grotto
I feel like if a population of a lot of people say it's not worth it for the cost vs stats
alpine wraith
i mean some people have more than 200 million gold
think using some does not faze them that much
specially m+ or high end M raiders boosting
pliant topaz
i will try to stop you from using it
ddos his ass
no augment runes allowed on my watch
red cloud
A WA ingrained into a pack that will disconnect you from the game when an augment rune is used
wispy bolt
no dagger from m+ dinar is so bullshit
this raid is not fun and im not gonna myth raid
paper iron
fun fact
hazy breach
Its only 3 ilvls anyway
paper iron
i still havent gotten a myth track dagger
hazy breach
Crafted op
paper iron
and i ve never seen a dagger in m+, the one i m using is from someone else who dropped it for me
and yes i m not on outlaw spec loot 
wispy bolt
rookery dagger has never dropped for me
paper iron
that s just crazy to me
i ve like 7 hc oab and and 10 rik daggers
but not a single mythic one dropped so far
wide kernel
I think I've seen 3 or 4 rookery daggers and 1 stabber from mechagon
So question, if I am outside of cooldowns and rupture is on all targets, what do I do next? Backstab for flawless and what do I do if I used backstab and it doesn't proc flawless form
random hare
guys 2.22m on candle king isn't that like
week 1 dps
or someshit
like
it feels like my dps didnt change
or am i drunk
haughty mural
We didn’t change since then 
hazy breach
So question, if I am outside of cooldowns and rupture is on all targets, what do...
All targets makes it sounds like aoe, in which case youd just storm
And BP or evis depending on the regular conditions
wide kernel
All targets makes it sounds like aoe, in which case youd just storm
Yes it's aoe but the rule isn't clear. The guide says to bp on 7+ targets if FF isn't up. You can't reliably proc it every time though, so what do
lilac stag
like
It didn’t change. We capped out week 2 somewhere around 668 ilvl
you got a dagger. You got 4pc. Everything else minor as hell.
pastel rampart
Yes it's aoe but the rule isn't clear. The guide says to bp on 7+ targets if F...
think thats a wording thing
on low target counts, backstab until u get FF, spend on evis if u have FF, spend on BP if u somehow get full CP before u get FF
on higher target counts BP always regardless of if u have FF
rocky ocean
take tea
bright sundial
my final form
chat is this the god build you take PF and tornado damn but yk what makes it even better replace dark brew with goremaws
worn ivy
I mean it sims higher. Has to be better. Math cannot lie
bright sundial
I mean it sims higher. Has to be better. Math cannot lie
true sry if that comment was rude didnt know the math behind it
prime glen
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
zealous hedge
rocky ocean
Tea is tasty
keen dome
coffee -> tea
wild hornet
water
narrow shadow
Hey guys, as sub, does it matter if I have a dagger on offhand? Or can be any weapon with the correct stats?
short radish
Hey guys, as sub, does it matter if I have a dagger on offhand? Or can be any we...
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
mint swift
Think it would be cool if they made it normalised tbh
Could be interesting to be able to off hand weps with effects sometimes
severe prism
I could use that nunchaku mog 
wide kernel
my final form
idk i actually started checking and i get TFD way more than i thought i did
tribal blade
not such a fan of DB M+ builds now because it forces you to take a dead node in PV
and also you only get 2 charges of symbols
i still think 2 charges of symbols should be baseline, and the additional charge a 1 point node
vestal escarp
you can thank shoehorning death perception where dust was for that
past marlin
vestal escarp
slate marlin
Frost mage is that bad in raid?
tribal blade
i guess so
might just be because everyone is either playing arcane or fire
since arcane has become the meta spec
keen dome
