subtlety

[vestal escarp]

when the

bug is so big it gets a wowhead article

it truly was a grand melee

[teal prawn]

!tott

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[long flint]

Question for the gamers, is fazed parry for your melee fix? or still working?

[tepid trellis]

ever since the spell became a thing

[wild hornet]

hello zukz

https://tenor.com/view/waving-emoji-yellow-waving-emoji-fast-waving-yellow-emoji-gif-2616820770356227063

[junior prawn]

Sub is great at bursting the assistants, the only fight where sub is reasonably better than assa . You can easily switch targets since you dont use deathstalker so you dont need to hard focus or ramp on 1 mob. TLDR : focus adds do cleave dmg to boss instead of focusing boss and cleaving onto the add. It is just my opinion.

[cursive vapor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow nimbus]

What if nothing happens to sub now because they fix all the bugs and rework some talents with 11.2

[swift tinsel]

Depends on how they rework talents

They’re gonna give us a BP tier set in season 3 anyways

[fallow nimbus]

Deathstalker with just bp no eviscerate

If you didn't switch to assa yet this will make you do it

[junior prawn]

Rather swap class than play assa again.

[jaunty umbra]

your loss

[junior prawn]

I played it thru entire season 1 and i cant take the energy pooling anymore.

[jaunty umbra]

what pool

you just send now

[lilac stag]

Sub has more downtime than assa.

[young mural]

arguably not

sub rogue is better at bursting adds during oab and rik

but you wont pop off during execute phase that is very important on oab for its enrage

so its very arguable what spec is better on that fight

depends on what your guild is lacking tbh

[junior prawn]

ye that is fair , but for adds specifically sub does excel.
Probably not worth playing sub for that fight if you are giga geared for assa

[young mural]

yhea its all pretty subjective at the end of the day

just feelsbad that sub is kinda weak

[swift tinsel]

I coinflip between outlaw and sin for reclear bosses

[junior prawn]

i wish the coinflip tree would be good , they maybe it would spark joy in playin sin

[vale pine]

you can pmuch play whatever atm

[merry agate]

Speak of the devil... 🫣

[atomic arrow]

If i wnated to play between assa and sub would it be better to focus crit/mastery or mastery/vers?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter really

[tulip wharf]

Please don’t quote me on this but I was under the impression that you also want to make sure that your mastery is comfortably higher than crit, so that seaforium charges don’t accidentally make it pop over mastery during signet, and hence people playing both assa and sub (and that trinket combination) tend to tweak towards versa / mastery

[lilac stag]

just sim top gear. Try both missives and don’t overthink stats.

Broken record in here the last few days

[vale pine]

you typically want to have a lot of vers and mastery

but having a bit more crit is not had

as long as you don't have high amounts of haste

[gritty knot]

Idk guys but after playing this assa bleed build even as a hardcore sub player I cant go back to sub in keys. This shit is literally insane......Dfuq is this build. Destroying Dk's and Owls on a regular

I literally don't even know what I am doing since I only play sub ever. So people with knowledge and actual skill should do way more dmg x

[serene notch]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[lilac stag]

At some point people will listen to myself, prophet, eleem, etc

[tulip wharf]

Bleed build is heaven in aoe heavy dungeons

[alpine wraith]

one day sub will do good dmg and keep it

for more than 1 week

in ptr

[lilac stag]

It’s good everywhere

it excels with tanks that know what they’re doing

[tulip wharf]

I wonder if there are commercial logics from blizzard in keeping assa as “premiere” rogue spec, given it’s arguably easier to play than sub or outlaw and more forgiving

[mortal arch]

considering basically nobody plays rogue I seriously doubt any 'commercial' considerations are being taken with rogue

[kind bluff]

What's the new tech with the bleed build

[alpine wraith]

wrong channel

[lilac stag]

Nah. Right channel. Play the spec that does dmg.

[slate marlin]

looks like another no tuning week

[junior prawn]

watch the next tuning be just shuriken storm damage buff nothing else

[slate marlin]

25 energy ss

the dream

[azure heron]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[craggy quest]

doubt they add anymore tuning in the patch

[hazy breach]

No

[random hare]

4:42 kill timer last boss on +18

[short radish]

yaaaas queen

i assume sub was specifically just for last boss?

[random hare]

yea ofc

if u wanna try to deplete u can play sub all key on 18/19 np

[strange chasm]

@random hare have you been doing bleed build or hybrid

[random hare]

never bleed buiild

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[round latch]

bleed build sacrificed alot to gain stupid bleed dmg(Iron Wire,DTB,KB,Supercharger)

(the last one u can play as a variation but ye,normal bleed plays AP)

[wide kernel]

is sub usually as bad in raid as it is atm?

[lilac stag]

long term history, yes it's a get nerfed after heroic week spec. recent history it's been good on 1-2 bosses usually towards the end of the raid which kept it somewhat relevant.

[wide kernel]

but we aren't good on any bosses this tier are we?

[vagrant sinew]

if anyone actually balanced rogue sub would have gotten a buff 2 weeks ago

[lucid jackal]

Not always, its kinda random between sub/sin which ends up as the default spec ppl play all tier

For the past 2 tiers, it's been sub rogue

Sub was also the best spec in aberus for rogue, although rogue was only average

IT was also most peoples default pick in vault, unless you were an outlaw truther

Sub in amidrasil was literally the best spec in the game

[vagrant sinew]

even in aberrus assa got buffed pretty similar timeline as this tier

[wide kernel]

and we are particularly bad this tier right?

[lucid jackal]

This is the worst sub has been in awhile

[vagrant sinew]

and then assa nerfed twice in amir

or was it even 3 times

[lucid jackal]

Even with no sin nerfs, sub was still the best spec in the game on smolderon, tindral, and fyrak

Sin could never compete on smolderon, or tindral

Fyrakk was a tossup

I think it was 2 nerfs

[vagrant sinew]

tindral was setup based and fyrakk was easily assa before the nerfs

[wide kernel]

thats a relief ig

[vagrant sinew]

lets be honest

[wide kernel]

it just feels so hard to compete with anyone

in raids its way worse

[vagrant sinew]

freaking hopeful played assa on fyrakk

[lucid jackal]

Fyrak was a tossup, it depended how much damage u needed on shields as a guild

Sin was good, I played it for our prog post nerf

Like we had 2 rogues go sub and I stayed sin

Cuz I was bad at sub that tier

and sin had value

[wide kernel]

how is sub historically in m+, the same?

[lucid jackal]

Kinda random between the 3 specs

Theres a lot of outlaw die hards

So even when its slightly worse it does have a few fans at the higher end

But between sub/sin it's random. Sin has only really became playable in keys recently, it used to be turbo shit unplayable

[wide kernel]

according to a lot of tier lists we're like A tier or something but it just feels rough in keya yn?

[vagrant sinew]

yeah maybe week1 tierlists

[lilac stag]

Tier lists are shitbait

[lucid jackal]

Tier lists aren't the video game

[lilac stag]

Excluding outlaw. You’re looking at a spec that doesn’t need cds and in higher keys gets 2 sets of 2mins off on bosses vs a spec that is reliant on cds for trash and does healer dmg outside of cds. It’s a temu arcane mage.

it’s fun to play, but output is frustrating.

[lucid jackal]

Sub is just undertuned rn

Happens sometimes, unfortunately

Shame because sub rn is so, so fun

But wcyd, other than be a bit upset about it

[wide kernel]

yeah sub is really fun

[lilac stag]

Play something else rogue wise or class wise and enjoy playing with your homies

[lucid jackal]

2 of our alt rogues are playing sub

They are havin a blast

They are in the stage they can blame their terrible DPs on gear/skill

They haven't hit the plateau yet

[lilac stag]

lol

[short radish]

yeah sub rogue is fun, just numbers arent as much

but its comfy so kinda whatever

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/scorsese-absolute-cinema-meme-gif-9523375912274476782

[short radish]

variance between assi and sub is small enough for both to be viable

[warm depot]

sub makes me feel alive when i see big number

[lucid jackal]

Yeah I mean sub still has value

[warm depot]

then big number go small for 90s and i sleep

[lucid jackal]

It's just like, if u care about details it's kinda GG

Its still valuable in raid, specifically on OAB at this point

Same with gally

[wide kernel]

how does that work though

you cant really save cds

[vagrant sinew]

people are doing different order strat now

[lilac stag]

OAB does your comp need barrels or execute.

[vagrant sinew]

just hasnt become majority yet

its better for farm, maybe not for prog since it has higher dps req in p1

[lilac stag]

another 3% raid buff

Shit ton of ilvl in 2 weeks

[vagrant sinew]

well it unlock it but no crests

maybe if you got fed alot of crest saving stuff in raid and had great vaults ontop

[lilac stag]

10 farm on blast

That week you’re seeing an ilvl jump

[lucid jackal]

OH yeah I saw that

Sub still helps with reel assistants better than sin

[strange chasm]

but the sims though

[lucid jackal]

Bleed build is fun

[strange chasm]

Its brain off which is nice

Im praying for sub buffs this reset so its good again in M+

[lilac stag]

35% BP and ya get to play toxic shit

[strange chasm]

If they tap up BP lmao we legit won't press evis right

[lilac stag]

oh it’s worse than that. The apl for aoe is toxic. It’s still posted someplace in #tc-research

[warm marlin]

idk how much value sub has on gally tbh

i played it for our prog but we ended up just having everyone full swap single since adds exploded regardless

I think assa would have been better in retrospect

[rocky ocean]

they fixed the bug finally

I'm talking about the acid rain not generating threat from its damage

[random hare]

build im playing does same dps and much higher st

its undersimming

[viral phoenix]

when you zone in for last boss as sub r u sending a dance but then holding cds for first phase

also how are you swapping out? hearth swap fly to entrance? where does the dungeon entrance put u at that point

[random hare]

2 dances

u could send 3 i guess

same kill timer anyway sort of

i think its better to have full charges on everything for amp, i havent thought too deeply into it

i'll definitely experiment with dances when i get resil 18

[viral phoenix]

ok that makes sensee

and mechanically speaking how are you swapping? does walking back in put u at the hub area and u speed shroud to boss?

[short radish]

brother you cant say this 2 days after we get a pin about nimble flurry bug

[rocky ocean]

it means restoration shamans are going to generate more threat as intended, therefore tricks of the trade gained 0.000000000000000000001% in value

means rogue buff

[haughty rose]

what exactly is/was the nimble flurry bug?

[teal prawn]

Hits dead things

[short radish]

[wide kernel]

wait

nimble flurry is bgged for sub?

[short radish]

and outlaw

apparently always has been

so more sub nerfs are incoming once it gets fixed

[wide kernel]

is this some meme?

i presume nf being bugged means it's not giving dps off of the dead hits

[past marlin]

Time to play deathstalker

[wide kernel]

so trickster is doing LESS damage than it should because of a bug?

[short radish]

if the bug gets fixed it means we will do more damage

so this means sub is overperforming for what it should be

(yes it's a meme)

[molten citrus]

nothing has changed

trickster still performs the same as it has all season

[lucid jackal]

bug likely matters less on sub because above target cap you spam BP anyway

But it does exist in the literal sense

[fallow nimbus]

I bet that the first posts about 11.2 have absolutely no sub changes

[lucid jackal]

I'd love to see a professional victim-off between Sub rogue, Outlaw rogue, and Windwalker

Who would win

[viral phoenix]

my shadowstrike cleave

huge stonks incoming

[teal prawn]

Outlaw wins with apm and single word messages

[alpine wraith]

you would first need to find the 10 sub players

that havent rerolled or quit

to ask XD

[chrome palm]

Many sub players in sin prison by their guilds, sad

[abstract skiff]

guys it happened i finally escaped transmitter prison

[short radish]

dont forget about feral druids

[vale pine]

Hey, don't call me out like this

[molten citrus]

Boomkins

[teal prawn]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[heavy compass]

Still standing strong, haven’t touched assa during mugzee prog

[fallow nimbus]

Never have never will

Ok, not never but since bfa

[lucid jackal]

It's only one of the best specs in the game on the fight

[chrome palm]

gonna feel great when you get that 1% wipe on sub

[short radish]

subs passive 25% DR for just existing

is very underrated

acutally probably more like 30%

[tribal blade]

yeah it's very good

[vale pine]

is only relevant if it solves a problem

[short radish]

well yes but it's just nice to take less damage as well

like things that might have killed you on assi, you survive because of sub

but you dont really notice those things

[fringe palm]

I'm bored at work again but not bored enough for another 2h of this shit

[short radish]

was there a convo about this that i've forgotten

[fringe palm]

Oh maybe I've confused you with someone else

Mb

[short radish]

does happen from time to time

[tribal blade]

i've had a few "prophet from the rogue disc??" a few times this expac

[tribal blade]

enlighten me who is SEA fim

[short radish]

are you ready for a medium lore dump for a bit of a nothing burger story?

[tribal blade]

hit me

[short radish]

kk so FM is the "main" OCE server

i've had my Fimbulvtr char since cata when i started

been the only one with that name on the server

and all my chars are some variation of Fimbulvtr

there was another Fimbulvtr on Barthilas which we found out during shadowlands

decent tank

did some keys with him and through that found that he was from SEA

come end of SL or start of DF or something though

he transferred to Frostmourne

obviously he couldnt use the Fimbulvtr name since i have basically all of them

but he named his char fimbulsomething

which is fine because i dont have a copyright to the name

but because he pugs a lot or something

and knows a lot of people

throughout the last year or 2 people think that I'm him

so i have to tell them that i'm the AUS fim not the SEA fim

and i guess in some cases he gets confused for me

as per the screenshot my mate sent me

and that's basically the lore of SEA fimb and me

[tall girder]

fim my goat

[short radish]

[alpine wraith]

daniel and cooler daniel moment

[tribal blade]

ahhhh i see haha

[short radish]

like i said nothing burger story, but kinda funny for me and him

[heavy compass]

Wiped on 1.6%

[chrome palm]

gonna feel really great when you get that .5% wipe on sub

[heavy compass]

Then it’s always someone else fault :))

[chrome palm]

🫵

[short radish]

acutally sub is really good for mugzee prog

because when the RL says to hold damage

you auto hold damage anyway because youre not doing anything during that 50 second time

[chrome palm]

yeah but youre pushing the boss faster

[short radish]

not unless youre running 4 heal

or youre next week with damage buff

you just hodl damage for almost a minute

[chrome palm]

sub is only better for p1, where you have to hold damage anyways

[short radish]

(i was memeing about sub being good for mugzee prog)

[chrome palm]

its 4:30 shoot me in the head

[wicked urchin]

No word on crafted items increasing ilvl during the turbo thing right?

[short radish]

[short radish]

you can buy an item that allows you to upgrade it

[wicked urchin]

Missed that ty

Have a dagger in vault vs. socket

Just gonna take socket

[short radish]

if you dont have myth track daggers yet

i'd take dagger

[wicked urchin]

I do

[short radish]

do you have two?

[native zodiac]

Think a lot of guilds are going to transition to pushing earlier with this weeks 3% buff

[short radish]

yeah but what about those currently progging

if youre going fresh

you 4heal

but half way through prog/right at the end?

surely you still just 5 heal if youve been doing that the entire time

especially since damage isnt an issue killing the boss

its living

[native zodiac]

If you are somewhat deep in the fight you prob dont swap yeah

[haughty rose]

are R3 consumables actually worth it if i only try to get top 50 logs in heroic? 5 times the price of flask, 3 times the price of pot and whetstone is scary stuff

[lilac stag]

R3 are worth it. They’re cheap now

[short radish]

cheap is relative

but consider what else youre spending gold on

i use r3 in raid

but in keys i just use r2

2k a raid session is kinda whatever

since its heroic you should be 1shotting

gotta maintain those parses

[placid crown]

Hello, seems I can't enter in stealth while dance is active even if i am not in combat anymore. Something to do for it ?

[short radish]

yes you need to cancel dance

you cant stealth while dance is up

[placid crown]

ok

ty

[short radish]

np

[placid crown]

is there a lore justification for this ?

or even a gameplay justification ?

[short radish]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[placid crown]

i see

[short radish]

i assume its just been a thing since 5eva

[placid crown]

what is 5eva ?

by curiosity

[short radish]

4eva but longer

[haughty rose]

i use this macro

#showtooltip Stealth
/cancelaura [nocombat] Shadow Dance
/cast !Stealth

first click cancels dance
second click gets you in stealth
accidental third click will do nothing (you will stay in stealth)

[placid crown]

Mhh ok thank you

[haughty rose]

and about this

i did the math (instead of working in real life ofc) and 100 of each R3 Whetstone, R3 Flask and R3 Pot are 6€ in total if you convert it to wow token on EU realms

[placid crown]

I use /cast [combat]Shadowmeld
/cast [nocombat]Camouflage

[haughty rose]

while R2 is 1,5€

[placid crown]

what is the goal of "!" before Stealth in your macro ?

[alpine wraith]

to be alert

[haughty rose]

lol

nah it's to not break stealth again after clicking it a third time

if you don't use ! before stealth and click it again while stealthed you will cast a regular stealth which will obviously break it

stealthstealthstealthystealth

[placid crown]

mhh ok ty

sadly i feel like i can't combine your macro and mine

Oh but with this macro you can't go out of stealth with the same key because of the "!"

[molten citrus]

thats the point of the !

so you don't accidentally exit stealth

[placid crown]

Yeah got it now, but i mean i thought that the "!" works for the gcd or few gcd after his uses, but like 5 seconds later or more it has no impact anymore

[short radish]

there's a weak aura floating around that is something like

Tempered Potion has been used. I have now spent 0.0006 cents on this encounter

or something like that

[molten citrus]

wdym

[fringe palm]

I need that to yoink from guild bank when I'm not in on first boss and miss cauldrons

[placid crown]

My first understanding of the goal of "!" was : impossible to re-cast Stealth by spamming your key in less than one gcd

[molten citrus]

nah it just literally will not exit stealth

[placid crown]

But I am pretty sure that you can't stealth or un-stealth in less than 2seconds in anyway, so i suppose that the use of "!" is for people spamming the key during more than 2 sceonds ?

[short radish]

https://wago.io/mclbtlYhe

i think its this

@fringe palm

wait nvm thats for classic

[molten citrus]

you definitely can exit stealth in less than that

[fringe palm]

Wait is that calced to aus$ with token price

[placid crown]

mhhh weird... when i enter in stealth and spam click to unstealth, ican click like 10 times (spamming the key) before i unstealth

2sec cd

[short radish]

yeah i know there's a current TWW one

[placid crown]

So if u use a macro to put you in stealth, you have to accidentally spam click during 2 sec to be accidentally unstealth

or i miss stgh 😄

whatever 🙂

[short radish]

#showtooltip Stealth
/cast [nomodifier] !Stealth
/cancelaura [modifier] Stealth
/cancelaura Shadow Dance

that's my stealth macro

cancels sdance and can spam it

[molten citrus]

this CD is only for after you EXIT stealth

[short radish]

so it wont unstealth me

[molten citrus]

you can stealth->unstealth immediately

[placid crown]

not if you just stealth

[molten citrus]

but it takes 2 seconds for you to re-enter stealth AFTER exiting

[leaden prairie]

french

[molten citrus]

???

[placid crown]

if u are not in stealth, you press key to stealth, then you have to wait 2 sec to be able to unstealth

or u use magic or idk

[molten citrus]

no

[placid crown]

i'm just trying it rn

[molten citrus]

there is no delay

[placid crown]

are you trying it too rn ? x)

[molten citrus]

yes

[placid crown]

wth

[molten citrus]

and i just know from playing the game

that it is immediate

this is why a lot of people use the "!" macro

[leaden prairie]

idk if its immediate

i think its on the gcd no?

ye im sure of it actually

[molten citrus]

bro

[lilac stag]

Its immediate

[molten citrus]

if i have to learn how to screen record my stealth button

[placid crown]

same

[molten citrus]

just because of you two frenchies

[leaden prairie]

Stealth is on the GCD

Or you mean exiting stealth

Nvm

Yo trickz

Who you calling french wtf

[molten citrus]

exiting stealth is immediate

[placid crown]

not if you just entered stealth

[molten citrus]

sdfljknsfljn

[lilac stag]

The two 🥖

[leaden prairie]

Ye sure I mean that's just a cancel aura anyway

[placid crown]

you can't enter stealth and exist stealth in less than a gcd ffs

[molten citrus]

yes. if you just entered stealth.

[leaden prairie]

It you want to

Cancel auras are always immediate tho

[molten citrus]

i'm not using a cancel aura

[lilac stag]

@molten citrus glhf

[molten citrus]

i'm literally pressing the default stealth spell

[placid crown]

same

on the book

directly

no macro

[leaden prairie]

i cannot exit stealth

[placid crown]

spam this from the book

and tell me again you can enter stealth and exist stealth instantly

you can't

is there a way with basic Windows stuff to create a video of few seconds ?

[molten citrus]

why the fuck does the spellbook matter exactly

[leaden prairie]

camouflage

[placid crown]

to be sure you are not arguing with macro stuff

[molten citrus]

you can't do it from the spellbook

put the spell on your fucking bar

and press it

[lilac stag]

Because the frenchies don’t use actionbars

[placid crown]

it's same thing bro

[molten citrus]

just fucking do it ffs

[placid crown]

i am spamming it

[molten citrus]

you don't play the game from the spellbook i hope

[placid crown]

bro is trolling me

[molten citrus]

????????????

[placid crown]

ofc not

[leaden prairie]

are you using the button

[molten citrus]

YES ZAC

i literally dragged it to my bar

[rocky ocean]

They play by typing /cast

[leaden prairie]

no i mean

[lilac stag]

I use voice commands for my actions and there’s a 2 second delay

[leaden prairie]

i think the stance button

[placid crown]

bro, from book, in bar, or by /cast macro, nothing works

[leaden prairie]

is diffy

than a bind

[molten citrus]

if you're spamming it maybe you aren't noticing that you're ENTERING AND EXITING

the exiting causes the 2 sec CD

[leaden prairie]

Also I think it's different with subterfuge

[placid crown]

bro i can spam a key and watch my screen at same time

[leaden prairie]

Stealth act differently with subterfuge

No capo

[molten citrus]

i just spec'd out of subterfuge

it's the same

immediately exits

as it has, for years

[placid crown]

i just spec'd in of subterfuge

it's the same

😄

does not work

[molten citrus]

i am done with this troll

[placid crown]

ok ok you are the one trolling

or record a video or idk

[leaden prairie]

i asked if you were pressing the stance button or not tho

[placid crown]

OH OK i got it

[leaden prairie]

im like 99% sure its not the same

[placid crown]

bro is using a macro

[molten citrus]

i'm not

i'm not using a fucking macro

[placid crown]

if u press this, yes it works

[molten citrus]

i dragged the literal vanilla spell to my action bar

[molten citrus]

.....................

[placid crown]

if you dont cancelaura, you can't

thats all

[leaden prairie]

I found the issue

[molten citrus]

you are dumb

[leaden prairie]

Your game is in french

Fix that

[molten citrus]

done with this

[leaden prairie]

Having your game in french in 2025 is criminal btw

[placid crown]

stay polite

[leaden prairie]

Litteraly illegal

I don't want you in my raid no cap

French game haver

[placid crown]

i dont want me in your raid

😄

[leaden prairie]

Wtf no wae

[rocky ocean]

I couldn’t switch the language to French because this game sucks

[leaden prairie]

I meam

Half the macros break

[alpine wraith]

yea you can use spanish (latino) instead

[leaden prairie]

And weak auras

And shit

[alpine wraith]

peak VAs

[leaden prairie]

Idk

It's not viable

To have your game in french

At all

• no one knows the spell names in french

So you can't communicate

I'm french and I don't know the french names

Mf translated coup de grace

[rocky ocean]

Symbols of baguette

[leaden prairie]

It's already french ??

[placid crown]

but i know the spells in english, so whatever

[leaden prairie]

Why translate

[placid crown]

i know subterfuge

[leaden prairie]

wjhats subterfuge in french

[placid crown]

subterfuge

thank you Shakespeare

[cloud rover]

Does anyone know if you can dodge the Mine DMG on Mugzee?

Apparently you can parry them

[placid crown]

Does Evade work ?

Evasion for my broguettes

[cloud rover]

Ye thats the Question

[leaden prairie]

holy

ye i heard evasion worked tira

but you get bumped

and i tried once and it didnt work

but maybe i wasnt facing the correct direction

[placid crown]

Why Danse Macabre is Danse Macabre ? Nobody feels it's a bit frenchy ? :))

[cloud rover]

Ty zac

[alpine wraith]

no way did they

what did they tl it to

[leaden prairie]

i dont remeber

@placid crown

[placid crown]

wait

here it's funny

Coup de grace is literraly french

[alpine wraith]

yea yea but what they did they bastardized it to

[placid crown]

but they named it differently for frenchies

[alpine wraith]

LUL

racists

[placid crown]

Achèvement

[alpine wraith]

ahahaha

[haughty rose]

yeah a guy used this in a raid a couple days ago. made me audibly breath out air

[alpine wraith]

they said you are too french to have the french word

have this one

chat gpt translate coup de grace to french

then used that one

[leaden prairie]

I mean tbf

Its probably what happened right or

Like surely you automate translations a little bit nowadays

[alpine wraith]

well if you have a paid localization team

you expect

they to work?

although tbh company translation work is so weird

[south kernel]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[south kernel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[placid crown]

Just to go back to previous debate

can you confirm it's not possible to exist stealth instantly after entering it without any macro ?

Or I may have different settings in my game i don't know

[leaden prairie]

I can confirm you it's skill issue

[placid crown]

what did u use to record ?

[alpine wraith]

javier

[lilac stag]

How about uploading a non-edited clip?

[leaden prairie]

I like your weak aura pack

[placid crown]

@molten citrus seen my record ?

[molten citrus]

???

[alpine wraith]

fake news

[lilac stag]

/s

[molten citrus]

me too i made it from scratch with tender love and care... but it needs a lingering darkness/darkest night tracker for dry shiv or whatever

[lilac stag]

kekw watch French shadowmeld interfere with stealth because of naming conventions

https://tenor.com/view/viva-la-revolution-gif-11760395

[molten citrus]

yeah idk something is wrong with your stuff

[placid crown]

wdym

[lilac stag]

wdym wdym

Written in plain English

[molten citrus]

it has always worked the way it works in my clip, for me and anyone else i've talked to

[leaden prairie]

That's already updated noob

[placid crown]

french shadowmeled does not interfere with stealth since french shadowmeld is "camouflage dans l'ombre" wich is a bit different that "camouflage"

[molten citrus]

oh i just need to get it i guess. haven't updated in a while. why is there 2 garrotes btw

[leaden prairie]

Can you write it in plain french I do not understand

[leaden prairie]

There isn't

Or wdym

[alpine wraith]

there is garrote silence and normal garrote maybe

happened to me once

[leaden prairie]

One is the cd one is the buff

Idk what you mean

[molten citrus]

sec

[leaden prairie]

Dot not budd

Buff

[placid crown]

it does same to you if you desactivate all addons (mostly targetting wa, but maybe some others) ?

[lilac stag]

There is 1 thing different. French client.

[haughty rose]

yo whats that detection thing? i saw this on kalvishs stream too

[leaden prairie]

That's weird, you probably modified something

[molten citrus]

i haven't

[lilac stag]

pvp rogue hacking for rating

[molten citrus]

maybe it just got bricked because old

[placid crown]

what do you mean detection thing

[lilac stag]

Clearly

[leaden prairie]

You probably loaded something I set in loaded never

Just delete all and reimport next time

[molten citrus]

i only use WA packs in pve xdd

[molten citrus]

ye about to now

[haughty rose]

the spell in your spellbook Détection

[molten citrus]

its from legion

[placid crown]

it's only fro pro gamers

dont touch that

[molten citrus]

you just buy it from order hall vendor

or some shit

[haughty rose]

is it useful? can/should i get it when i never played legion?

[placid crown]

was able to buy it at 20th anniversary

i dont even know

[molten citrus]

no

[haughty rose]

what does it do?

[molten citrus]

it has zero use

its just a button to spam for A.D.D.

[placid crown]

imagine i can't instant exist stealth since i have it

[lilac stag]

It confuses people in here, so it has use

[haughty rose]

i dont have it and i can't either

[molten citrus]

yes, its always behaved this way

[haughty rose]

wait, is this jokes or you serious with hacking?

[molten citrus]

[haughty rose]

i assume jokes for now

i hope*

[molten citrus]

scath you can't joke like that ok

someone might believe

[tribal blade]

did you guys know if you spam backstab fast enough you can replace it with strike for 1 global

[placid crown]

just asked some guild mates with their rogues, they also can't exist stealth instantly after entering in.

[lilac stag]

did you know if you spam strike fast enough you can replace it with backstab for 1 global?

[tribal blade]

SHEEEEEESH

worth

[placid crown]

I am still pretty sure it's related to a weakaura or other addon

[tribal blade]

i think it's always worked that way

at least for me it has

[placid crown]

and not related to french client you baguettes haters :/

[lilac stag]

did you ask only baguette users?

[molten citrus]

@leaden prairie reimporting fixed it, and now i have to reset all of the textures

[molten citrus]

i promise you, it isn't

maybe something you have

[placid crown]

no, and @haughty rose have the same "issue"

[lilac stag]

congrats on doing something to fuck up your game.

[placid crown]

oh wait

oh oh

ah

https://tenor.com/view/ah-denis-denis-brogniart-gif-11631501

just desactivated all my addons

and...

works as @molten citrus

mhhh

https://tenor.com/view/laptop-gif-26065252

[molten citrus]

sounds about right

[placid crown]

oh oh it seems ot be related to elvui

well i mean

at least i dont need the "!"

[molten citrus]

[lilac stag]

Imagine using elvui

[alpine wraith]

bugui

[molten citrus]

i was thinking about switching to atrocity's

[placid crown]

cant instant click on this shit with elvui bar :

[molten citrus]

yeah its probably some elvui setting

[placid crown]

while this is not even the shown icon withtout elvui

[lilac stag]

Quazii has a non ElvUI setup he just released. Maybe look at that

[molten citrus]

yeah, i've looked at it

i tend to not like quazii's stuff

i've been trying his plater profile for keys on rogue

and i kinda feel like Jundies is better

[lilac stag]

more or less personal pref there

[molten citrus]

yeah

[lilac stag]

Quazii maybe coded with less impact

[graceful crown]

im scared to ask this, but...

does this mean d*athstalker is the one to go for

until trickster is fixed?

[lilac stag]

no

[graceful crown]

thank god

[lilac stag]

Well yes

Play assa

[graceful crown]

no

[molten citrus]

trickster is the same as it was before

this is likely not a 'new' bug

[haughty rose]

who says i'm not baguette

[placid crown]

stats

[haughty rose]

i'm not baguette

[placid crown]

u c

stats

[molten citrus]

@leaden prairie

fr*nch canadian server

[haughty rose]

what stats

[molten citrus]

even i am 2% baguette

[placid crown]

% of french players here : very low

[lilac stag]

You’re choice on getting carried.

[placid crown]

@haughty rose you are not latino too

stats ?

no

electricity is a too rare resource to be here

https://tenor.com/view/ricolino-scolari-gif-25352670

[haughty rose]

bc they don't speak english

and it's even lower for my country and yet i'm here

stats mean nothing

[alpine wraith]

spanish people are kinda same

[placid crown]

stats mean stats è_é

[south kernel]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[maiden gale]

hello peeps, not a rogue question but anyone know what can i use to know which addon is doing this ? sometimes i get spammed by it and sometimes not i disabling and enable addon by addon didn't help

[north schooner]

Bugsack

[hazy breach]

Should be able to see it in the addon interface too

With the profiling thing

[lilac stag]

addon interface literally tells you what’s out of date

use wowup or something similar to update addons

[brave bridge]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[solemn lance]

I keep imagining I am going to see a "we aknowldge that subtlety is a rogue spec and have decided to at least mention it"

[alpine wraith]

try again in 4 months maybe

[hazy breach]

Surely they buff or replace PV with a talent that actually increases our damage

[lilac stag]

The next time rogue gets mentioned it will be to fix outlaw. Nimble will remain broken.

[sly shore]

it's so insane that we get a post about rogue bugs on wowhead

then they do class fixes

and there is no rogue fixes listed

💀

[hazy breach]

Love having a talent in the bottom 3 rows where the most powerful talents usually are

Thats within margin of error

[solemn lance]

lol

[lilac stag]

my guess is they have no clue why it’s doing what it’s doing

[hazy breach]

Brilliant

[solemn lance]

sub life

[lilac stag]

Or it’s some fucked up interaction because of stealth for no reason other than stealth exists.

[sly shore]

my guess is that the entirety of rogue currently is a mess

and they are planning some big changes

right

right?

[lilac stag]

we can’t fix nimble flurry so here’s a 50% buff to BP

[sly shore]

most uninspired non functional slop

[lilac stag]

the comments on competitive wow and wow were a fun read

[sullen hare]

smells like cope in here

😦

[solemn lance]

or, we cant fix any of it, have smokebomb back

[sullen hare]

it's me, I'm the one exuding it

[steel horizon]

I for one think sin needs more buffs

[solemn lance]

smokebomb would appease me

[lilac stag]

Sweet. Another defensive to not get used due to Dps tuning being shit

[solemn lance]

"assassination is not perfoming well in all content and is only ahead of subtlety by 150%. We have decided to buff all of their abilities to increase this discrepency to the intended 300%"

[lilac stag]

We get one blue line every 3 months. Chose that line wisely.

[sullen hare]

the problem is that we've also seemingly always received nerfs to go alongside our buffs unless it was something useless like another 10% on black powder

god forbid we get a big win

[sly shore]

Rogues always have some annoying ass bug that the rogue mains just learn to play around because at this point they're used to being ignored.

sums it up pretty well

[sullen hare]

😐 yerp

[alpine wraith]

kinda

even the good bugs are annoying to do

like the outlaw double coup

[lilac stag]

at some point you’ll realize this spec is the hopeless dude sitting alone in the pub trying to get noticed by the hot girl.

[alpine wraith]

or the sub tfd grace

[sullen hare]

I still have a screencap from when that bug skewed wcl worse than nathria moonkin lol

[leaden prairie]

how so

[sullen hare]

that one you just couped a critter and it worked right?

[leaden prairie]

it legit was jut beneficial, get more cdr, easier to maintain adr etc

[alpine wraith]

annoying to do and know it exists

[lilac stag]

whatever nice things we have gets destroyed by outlaw

[alpine wraith]

not a bad one

[leaden prairie]

how is it annoying to do

[alpine wraith]

like how do you as a normal player

oh i can use this twice if i goon the button enough

[leaden prairie]

I think you don't understand something major in this tho

You just needed to chain your gcds, like you are supposed to be doing with any other spell

[alpine wraith]

and as sub getting shadowcraft refunds from 0.2 to 1.2 into coup

it is so krangled

we could make a montage of us using strike at full cp because of that

[little thistle]

which feet is bis for rogue?

[leaden prairie]

left one

[lilac stag]

The prosthetic one

[sullen hare]

the purple one

[solemn lance]

wheel chair is better than feet

[lilac stag]

Or sim droptimizer and see based on your gear like a good little rogue.

We don’t do bis bullshit except for house of cards

[sly shore]

the ones that go on your feet

[lilac stag]

Feet on feet?

[swift tinsel]

sounds kinda hot

[alpine wraith]

bis gear is as much mastery as possible with circe trust

[junior timber]

m late to the party, is there no fuu word doc with our BiS gear for this season?

[sly shore]

equip vers mastery and crit

and no haste

thank you

bis gear is not a thing

[vestal escarp]

equip all crit

double the dmg > all the other crap

[sly shore]

what if mastery is more than double the damage!!!

2x damage 25% of the time is like

some damage insreadse

masth hard

[vestal escarp]

if you can afford to go 19k mast for 100% on finisher you can afford to go 50k crit for 100%

trust it works like that

[sly shore]

[plain jackal]

Can I ask a basic question - why is the Remnant of Darkness trinket not that good? On paper, seems solid with +agility building and split damage

[slate marlin]

damage trinkets are bad in general

[lucid jackal]

Cuz other trinkets just do more

[plain jackal]

Thanks!

[alpine wraith]

if you could control remnant it would be kinda good

but you cant

so it can proc just before cds

and int you

same as azerokk too unreliable

also in another note

and not even engi helmet

[placid crown]

@molten citrus do you still have the video of you exiting stealth instantly ? Seems like you deleted it and weirdly i can't do it again even if I desactivated elvui, which was my problem earlier.

or if someone else can record it please

Windows + G is a keybind to access a record tool on windows

[vale pine]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

^ its the same link since bfa or sl beta

[placid crown]

Sorry i'm back in this debate but I want to understand

[lilac stag]

turn off all addon ons.

Try again

[placid crown]

Even if there is no interest for the gameplay, the only issue could be to know if u need ! or not ! in stealth.

This is what i just did

it does not work anymore

like full random sh!t

[lilac stag]

Everything? Or just elv?

[placid crown]

everything

[lilac stag]

clear the cache and shit

otherwise it’s your sign to swap to mage

[placid crown]

lmao

[swift tinsel]

got a week left to play until my sub runs out and I'm free

[warm depot]

sub ends when the sub ends. very poetic.

[placid crown]

without any addon

[swift tinsel]

pretty much over the season as a whole

and wow in general lol

[honest saddle]

The tuning this tier for sub has been truly a slap in the face

Either total incompetence or a lack of care from the tuning team

Starting with 4pc tuning pre tier and going on the entire tier. It's been a non stop fuck you from blizz to us

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[swift tinsel]

idk been playing 18 years, its a good time to hang it up

raid was kinda meh, I'm not big into m+ and I've got other shit going on now outside of the game

[lilac stag]

see ya at 11.2

https://tenor.com/view/michaeljordan-crying-sad-pouroneout-gif-4986360

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

as long as my legacy lives on

[merry agate]

We currently at end of line?

[swift tinsel]

that's like a week here lol

[north schooner]

Not spiky enough to be subtlety's damage pattern

[merry agate]

Biding our time in the shadows

Fated season Transmitter will be back

it will carry our sorry asses once again

[swift tinsel]

"bad luck protection" system says no

I'll be curious if they do a fated season since they have this new grand plan

[merry agate]

Oh njo

[swift tinsel]

probably will tho bc season 3 comes out this summer

unless they're planning on releasing Midnight this winter

[vale pine]

well we are not the best, but it can always be worse

[swift tinsel]

also curious about the "New Content and Systems Updates" on the roadmap are that are slated for fall/winter

[vale pine]

we probably get a new raid then ye

[swift tinsel]

I vaguely remember something about them wanting to shorten the seasonal cycles but I can't recall where I heard it

but yeah 3rd raid tier is likely

[alpine wraith]

yea we could be aug

literally 2 dps specs

one good one dog

we at least have 2 dogs

so we can cry together

[wispy bolt]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[pliant topaz]

join me on the other side hacha

its pretty lit out here

[alpine wraith]

what side

im too deep

[vale pine]

did you switch to ffo or just not playing mmorpgs all together

[pliant topaz]

Im almost done with the story in ff14 but too busy for that right now, probably gonna play later

still pretty fun game in terms of just the community and stuff you can do that are non combat related

[vale pine]

hope you are having fun

[pliant topaz]

I am haha! thank you < 3 I missed you guys a lot though

[viral phoenix]

yo @random hare im about to do a rookery where i swap to sub for last boss. Is the order of operations hearthstone > swap > zone in > speed shroud?

[random hare]

after 2nd boss

u can either kill that pack as sin send every sin cd u have in the game

then tp out

[viral phoenix]

kk

[solemn lance]

Tp out. Type GG. Then leave group

[hexed sluice]

gaming in the vault today

Glad I suffered in doing that final key before bed last night

[worn ivy]

i still cannot see any changes about subtlety in pins ?

[coarse hound]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/672945722664026142/1366869273464668332/image.png?ex=681283b5&is=68113235&hm=08ee05ffb012683b726149675824197f6d00661ec638806234bfef78f6472245&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/672945722664026142/1366870077626126417/image.png?ex=68128475&is=681132f5&hm=65c41bf4ec93eaf799e231f0e2268e708766796b0863bce0325e6cf11e991d8b&

Absolute Pain and suffering

arent dinars in like 2 weeks? I dont want to take this normal ass House of Cards

[lofty lance]

best ring in the game in ur vault dude

take that shit

[coarse hound]

thats what im thinking

[leaden prairie]

you put only one socked on your ring

[coarse hound]

very true

[swift tinsel]

what changes would be in pins?

[lilac stag]

https://giphy.com/gifs/btqU9V0Z48j3in2xBu

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

[pliant topaz]

i see youre no longer blue name

[leaden prairie]

he never was

i swear he never was

[shut ridge]

i miss my one true love spec please buff us amen

[alpine wraith]

i miss the greener pastures

but maybe blue resonates more with me

[lilac stag]

I am never a blue name

I am rogue, non-spec identified

[void ocean]

so ret? 😄

colour kinda resembles

[lilac stag]

You’re colorblind I’m assuming

[void ocean]

no, but then again, im not a woman so my colour distinguishing abilities are limited 😄

[open vortex]

when you play finality in aoe (7t) do you replace strike with storm during cds

[worn ivy]

EXACTLY

[sand monolith]

Are we supposed to shiv Raging Bullhorn during the cast of Raging Tandrum or after the cast when the enrage gets applied?

[worn ivy]

CAN U DO THIS LASHGA VERSION I BEG

I LOVE IT

[swift tinsel]

We won’t see sub buff this season

[void ocean]

wtf is raging bullhorn

[worn ivy]

DO THISONE'S LASHGA VERSION I BEG :d

ill do it chat cover

[swift tinsel]

It’s very easy to do yourself lol

[worn ivy]

how

[swift tinsel]

Just google gif maker

[sand monolith]

First pull of theatr of pain

[swift tinsel]

That’s how I made that one

Plus I’m at the gym atm and cba to do it on my phone lol

[void ocean]

either way i've never seen enrage being removed before its applied, so id go with after

[lilac stag]

You can’t dispell something that’s not enraged

[worn ivy]

@lilac stag maybe u do it ? 😄

[void ocean]

its not anesthetic poison 😄

[sand monolith]

Yeah that's what I figured, so we just take a single tick of the raging tantrum. At high keys, it really hurts

[void ocean]

and yes, im that old

[swift tinsel]

Ran with someone who raged that I didn’t shiv the cast of it lol

You can set a custom bigwigs/dbm alert for the cast and then shiv as soon as the aura applies

[void ocean]

god bless ignorants with infinite self confidence

[swift tinsel]

It can be kinda finicky between the cast end and aura application so I usually look at plater for the enrage to appear

[sand monolith]

yeah i look at enrage to appear on plater and then shiv

[worn ivy]

which website i can do this gif

[swift tinsel]

Pretty sure the site is in the watermark of the gif in the corner

[worn ivy]

im still trying to do it

how he made it man

bro teach me how to do it

i cannot make it move

you here ? @lilac stag

[ivory quarry]

Ninble flurry big fixed?

Yikes

Is it just me or that bug is BiG, like unolayable big?

[lucid jackal]

No

It's an annoying bug but it doesnt matter that much for sub anyway

Because above target cap u BP anyway

[ivory quarry]

Mh thank you then!

[alpine wraith]

for sub it is less annoying that outlaw

it only really affects us a bit if there are like 9 or so targets and you are eviscerating for some reason and some corpses take the cleave and maybe 2 targets or more from the alive ones dont

but also it has a little effect from the cleaved unseens and strikes to a lesser degree autos too

but it was that not important we didnt even notice LUL

[wide kernel]

do we have any idea when the next tuning patch is

[warm depot]

the better question is when the next tuning patch that includes sub will be

[wide kernel]

brother

the heat death of the universe

[warm depot]

kekw

[young mural]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[indigo steppe]

if im in a 15 ToP with no shaman am i better off playing assa

[dusty totem]

Why would u want to play sub without shaman

just log off at that point

[indigo steppe]

key started let's see how it goes

idk i hate myself ig

[scenic ocean]

guys what u think sub is playable for 13-14 keys?

[indigo steppe]

i played sub in all my 14s just not cinder im not built like that

[scenic ocean]

daoin big dck damage overall?

doin*

[rain swallow]

I did the same, all 14s, dfc 15 and cinder 13

always dealt least dmg :/

switched to assa rogue and got all but 2 15s done and i actually deal dmg every pack

[scenic ocean]

outlaw compared with these two?

[rain swallow]

personally i find outlaw the most fun but you have to put in so much work to just do good damage

i play assa now on my main and got an alt where i play outlaw on xd

[rain swallow]

it also has some buggs and its never fun to see the tank deal as much dmg as you in big first packs with lust xd

[scenic ocean]

yea xd

[indigo steppe]

i should have played assa lol

[rain swallow]

yep i was told that by my friend last season

but i didnt

and now i still switched

[indigo steppe]

missed timer by 30s

not too bad for no sham

[rain swallow]

ill show you mine on the assa

[indigo steppe]

what build

bleed or hybrid

i like

[rain swallow]

the new bleed build

very easy man

[indigo steppe]

can't do single target damage on hybrid

[rain swallow]

i never played assa before

[indigo steppe]

bleed build is so boring it makes me want to bleed out irl

[rain swallow]

i started 2 weeks ago

for the first time

y your single target SUCKS ass

but you save so much more time killing all those packs quicker than doing a few 100k dps more on bosses

tbf you still pump as assa on bosses with adds or if tank creates a route with you in mind where they try to get small packs into boss

[indigo steppe]

got into another one this time there's a sham

not giving up on sub yet

[hoary lotus]

I have myth pacemaker, but have mega magnet in vault.

it's saying magnet is a significant upgrade over pacemaker on sim

seems crazy

[molten citrus]

pacemaker is crit innit

[hoary lotus]

ye

[lilac stag]

It does not suck.

[molten citrus]

are pacemaker sims still fucking up sometimes?

[lilac stag]

it’s average, with exceptional aoe

[hoary lotus]

idk send help

[hazy breach]

Nop

[viral phoenix]

do you delay opener at all for OAB until buff comes through

like im talking 1-2 seconds

[molten citrus]

maybe you have enough crit compared to other stats so its slightly devalued or something, dunno

i'm not as up to date on sub now, been playing assa for the past few weeks 😭

[lilac stag]

Link sim vs speculation.