subtlety

[steel horizon]

1 point in death perception is cursed

[worn ivy]

this is the latest sims from fuu

😄

i mean very long time ago he did but still its this one in char

[proven plover]

https://murlok.io/rogue/subtlety/mm+
Its not really being played tho

Id miss the sod charges the most personally

[swift tinsel]

can't take deeper daggers and get any points in death perception with that kind of db build it looks like

[vestal escarp]

ah yes the dslice

[swift tinsel]

homie needed a handhold, idk

[twin haven]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torpid snow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gJuULAoxjiAwCjELhLBhEJ
how tall is your sim, I'll add that I play SIN

?

[chrome palm]

this ai troll always confuses my eyes when i try to look at it

[swift tinsel]

its like the King in Yellow, looking at it makes you go insane

[chrome palm]

the whole website is like that

[swift tinsel]

I've never heard of it before that link lol

[chrome palm]

its more for pvp

[pastel rampart]

yea the M+ section is newish

was a pvp data website for the longest time

[keen dome]

yeah, I fucking hate that LLM art troll

[swift tinsel]

ah, would explain why I had no idea it existed lol

[proper mason]

Hi all, may I ask about playing Sub in Stix to have more add dmg? or what is the best go in Stix?

[alpine wraith]

add dmg is sniping hyenas as they crash into the boss

otherwise we do nothing extraordinary

[proper mason]

what spec do you pref?

[vale pine]

i like subtlety the most

its the most fun to play

[keen dome]

Big same. Subtley has a flow to it, a style to it. It's got downtime and then big burst. And it just.. has a vibe.

[placid elk]

buff sstorm to 35 energy plz bliz

[alpine wraith]

yea i may have played sublety for a bit

[lilac stag]

Assa needs less movement to hit adds since the caustic fix. Sub you’re running around. This is Assa first set of adds.

It really doesn’t matter much

Do balls.

[alpine wraith]

you can also help interrupting the casters

shadowstep has quite a bit of range and some ranged are a bit of slackers

that would be some deaths

[worn ivy]

ETA gg

we still underperforming compare to other classes

in raid and in m+

subtlety need some loveeeeeee

[swift tinsel]

should write a strongly-worded email to Mr. John Blizzard and let him know

certainly he'll be surprised to hear it

[alpine wraith]

i can help translate it to spanish

send to to mr ventisca

[keen dome]

"Dear Mr. John Blizzard. I hope this letter finds you well. I'm a Subtley rogue and I've been a very good boy this year. Please would you buff Black Powder by 25%. Because I think it would be very funny."

[void ocean]

with delayed DM?

[lilac stag]

Full send at 35 seconds

Everything melts

[void ocean]

was lust on pull?

[steel horizon]

On the fights that have some cleave moments like vexie/stix/oab/gally, do we go back to playing rotten? Or do we just stick with finality

[void ocean]

I dont think we have to play finallity

quick look on vexie only 29% of ppl takes finallity

[steel horizon]

Well i know its better on pure ST. Just unsure about those fights with cleave moments

[void ocean]

on Sprok 30% takes finallity

in both cases top parses didnt take it

[steel horizon]

Well finality does sim better on st. It might just be people still using the old talents

[haughty mural]

i did finality on vexxie last week and got a 99

so i think it does work but as Dosem said many just use "old talents"

but its minor anyway

[young mural]

ON FOENEM GRAVE I MISS SEPSIS

[haughty mural]

still got

[young mural]

i liked the fact we had flag and sepsis, kind of matching talents

but both are kinda strange in their usage

[warm marlin]

it's a very small difference, but rotten's gain is mainly in 8t aoe where you are pressing sstorm for find weakness and then black powder

you can safely play finality on pretty much every fight in the raid

you can also play rotten if you like it better for some reason

[young mural]

does finality outperform rotten on a fight like sprocket?

full ST damage

[warm marlin]

sims suggest it's like 0.2-0.3%

at least for me

[young mural]

wow

ill sim it

i NEED that 0.2% gain

[void ocean]

GOTTA BEAT THAT GREY PARSE WARLOCK

[twilit phoenix]

Lmfao

Bro i NEEEEEEED that 0.2% gain bro please bro

[young mural]

me

[alpine wraith]

finality was 1.4% for me

it is not trivial

[young mural]

wow thats pretty good

[young mural]

in dslice or patchwerk?

[lucid jackal]

u need rotten for aoe spread in big pulls

[young mural]

Oh true, to mass apply FW in dungeons

yhea so finality only on low target counts

[steel horizon]

Yeah rotten is played in keys, no questions asked. I just wonder what comes out on top in raid fights that have intermittent cleave

[hazy breach]

I mean you dont storm anyway

You'd only storm for bp

And theres no boss this tier where you would bp

[young mural]

storm would only be for find weakness for bp correct?

[alpine wraith]

st

[hazy breach]

yes

[young mural]

gotcha

yhea ill play 1 point in finality fuck it

[lilac stag]

Yes. You can see it in the img. (blue box)

[young mural]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iXTQXPQZVf6VVBL9rargkv

simmed for 0.7% more

on pure ST

[warm marlin]

holy moly

[young mural]

new tech alert i play finality from now on

[void ocean]

so what do u do for the first 35 sec just standard rotation?

[young mural]

pretty big

[void ocean]

maybe one shiv at start

[lilac stag]

Shiv so it’s back up. Just do opener when adds go

[young mural]

ok so playing with finality, I need to do that rupture w/ finality bullshit?

where I apply rupture w/ finality even if its not at pandemic window

or something like that

i dont remember from DF

[hazy breach]

No

Play exactly the same

[young mural]

perfect

thanks eleem

[haughty mural]

you dont play around it ye

[bright sundial]

question for the chad subs do we ever use goremaws? or do i take it to be different

[swift tinsel]

(no its not good)

[bright sundial]

i cant say no to that, lmao takinig into mythic ez

[hazy breach]

Its really bad, but if you dont mind then go ahead

[twilit phoenix]

s3 goremaw's bite tierset is gonna go so hard

[vale pine]

[vestal escarp]

nah sub wont get a tierset for s3

[lilac stag]

Gloomblade / Goremaw tier set

GG

[slate marlin]

Backstab tierset better

Effects dont affect gloomblade but bc they forgot

[swift tinsel]

omg if they drop a Goremaw tier set that would be fucking hilarious

[vestal escarp]

the thing is

whatever ridiculously overpowered effect they can slap on tier to make gwb strong should be on it by default

[solemn lance]

Its actualy called Goremaws nibble now

you dont want it, but it might just turn you on

[opal comet]

Goremaws nibble 🤣🤣

[bleak wind]

anyone know how to disable the blizzard private aura thing that appears in the middle of your screen or whatever its called

the one that bugs out if you press vanish during it and it just stays on your screen

[delicate wind]

i'm so glad ww got a buff and sub didnt get touched. love to see it

[slate marlin]

11.1.5 official patch notes

class changes are

actualy a huge w

[sullen hare]

the personal resource display? that may be what you're looking for

[chrome palm]

Spell effect opacity

[uncut oriole]

The WW buff would be like buffing deathstalker, but not enough to make it good. The 2 changes were to the unused hero talent.

[bleak wind]

I think that might be the one tanks

its spell alert opacity but ye

[chrome palm]

oh ye mb

[delicate wind]

Still doesn’t make sense why they would do that.

[hazy breach]

Why not

Makes perfect sense to buff stuff thats bad that people arent using

[slate marlin]

they didnt make hero talents with the idea of specs having 1 thats used all the time and 1 that shit

or shit and shittier for some classes

so if one is underused they buff it

[uncut oriole]

I guess they're under the belief no class should receive tuning until sub does.

[slate marlin]

well time to be a unholy main for the next 2 years

[uncut oriole]

[swift tinsel]

I'm playing fdk for big oblit bonks

quite fun

get a big dragon AND lil dragon

[slate marlin]

i dont rly play pther specs

will only get invites regularly as 3/4 specs i dont rly enjoy, so no point

[swift tinsel]

dk's been my main longer than rogue, just haven't played as much since end of sl/start of df

since the guild i joined had 3 dk's already lol

[wide kernel]

are there new class changes i didnt see? there doesn't appear to be any

[vale pine]

nope

[slate marlin]

this

yes its all

[wide kernel]

more will be coming in a bit i think

[slate marlin]

clearly warrior meta

[wide kernel]

lets hope sub gets buffed

its performance in raid is so bad

[slate marlin]

i mean thats the official patch notes, so no class changes or reworks most likely

class tuning will most likely still happen

[plush roost]

I have a feeling they wait a week or 2 and see if corruptions do anything to the meta (they wont) and adjust on that

[wide kernel]

do they not update these things throughout the week?

[slate marlin]

actualy idk

[slate marlin]

oooor make changes now and dont stagger m+ for another 2 weeks?

[wide kernel]

i dont think sub is in that bad of a position for m+ you just cant put it in a random comp is what i learned this week

[slate marlin]

bc then they will say they cant do changes because that would kill top 10 keys

[plush roost]

Blizzard simply does not operate this way and never has

[slate marlin]

i know

[plush roost]

And besides, sub is good in keys its just not the defacto number one spec

[keen dome]

There's still time

[slate marlin]

its not that i want a 15% aura buff

just some talent/hero talent changes

[dusty totem]

I want a 15% aura buff

[swift tinsel]

I don't play at a level where I feel a big buff is necessary but I wouldn't be mad to get buffed

I top openers by a mile, do great burst

I'm chillin

[young mural]

Does anyone know if nimble flurry damage interacts with shadowed finishers? I pretty sure it doesnt because we dont shuriken storm on less than 7 targets but I think its worth the question.

[plush roost]

It does not

[young mural]

yhea you dont play with a good group then

MM hunters and even some WM monks doing more burst than us kinda fucked

• their sustain is just better

[hazy breach]

Shadowed eviscerate cleaves too yes

[plush roost]

MM hunter is just sleeper op ongod

[hazy breach]

Just like the regular eviscerate does

so you just need fw on your main target

[slate marlin]

5 seconds less cd on symbols being gated by shroud and cheap shot talents is so ass

[swift tinsel]

is it really sleeper op if hunters are swapping to mm en masse

[plush roost]

Players will swap to their best spec its normal, but i mean like people may start rerolling hunter

Its really really good.

[hazy breach]

Idk sub not getting a buff during this tuning pass suggests that they probably dont want sub to be the best spec, for one reason or another

[wide kernel]

its ST is not good afaik

[hazy breach]

Maybe people on average just dislike it and enjoy rogue a lot more when assa is the meta spec? idk

[bleak night]

They’d prefer you don’t play subtlety

[vale pine]

+1 i think they want assassiantion as dominant spec, rather than having a objective measurement

[swift tinsel]

yeah I don't see sub getting anything without walking back the previous nerfs

[slate marlin]

that should tell them to rework the spec to a certain point

[wide kernel]

i think its a raid tuning issue. They can't make sub great in raid because its ST overflows into AoE and deathstalker is a mess

[swift tinsel]

it's kinda iconic rogue at this point

sin*

[vale pine]

assassiantion was long the meta spec, so it is what people know

[hazy breach]

ofc they can

[vale pine]

it was for 4 years basically the only raiding spec

and this means there are just a lot of assassiantion players

[swift tinsel]

I play it bc the gameplay is fun

I don't expect the numbers to be the very top

[vale pine]

who are potentially not willing to play something more difficult

[swift tinsel]

or even top of the 3 specs

[wide kernel]

imo DS is what will actually get fixed first and maybe thats why there's no news

[young mural]

So if my ST eviscerate damage is doing more because of FW, it will cleave more with nimble. But if the targets that is getting cleaved by nimble has FW applied, the damage doesnt interact w/ shadowed finishers because the mob is getting damaged by nimble flurry and not eviscerate correct?

sorry if confusing

idk how to write it in such a way to make it less confusing

[swift tinsel]

I've tried both sin and outlaw in raid and m+ and the other two specs just aren't it for me

[slate marlin]

i can understand catering to the preferred spec

i dont understand ignoring another

[swift tinsel]

because if its notably better, people feel compelled to switch

and if they don't like sub, they'll whine

[slate marlin]

well not rly ignoring but yk

[young mural]

this is exactly me, my whole raid screaming at me PMing me to play the "better" spec. I've tried both and idk just sus gameplay

We're subtlety guys...

[slate marlin]

you can still buff subtlety without making it 10x better than assa you know

[wide kernel]

forgive my ignorance, but aren't most of the top specs atm fairly easy to play like DK (barring arcane)

[swift tinsel]

even if its just a few % better than sin

you've seen it happen

[young mural]

brah just give us 1% increase in damage of all spells and we'll stop crying

[hazy breach]

The only thing FW does on other targets is increase their damage taken by 10%

So if you have no FW, evis does 100 and cleaves 60

If you have fw on your main target, evis does 110 and cleaves 60

And then the shadowed hit also cleaves

[young mural]

bruh confusing ass spec interactions

tyvm for answer Eleem

[hazy breach]

Thats almost all specs in the game though

With debuffs

[swift tinsel]

but sub got pretty targeted nerfs, so I don't expect any reversal of them since their intention was pretty clear

[slate marlin]

having fw on cleaved targets increases their dmg taken right?

[hazy breach]

Yes

10%

[wide kernel]

sub is like A tier for m+ lists, i don't really think its an incorrect assessment or it's a bad perspective

[young mural]

Yhea I wouldnt know because I've only gone deep into the rabbit hole with sub

[slate marlin]

tierlists matter not imo

[swift tinsel]

The only reason I'm playing other classes/specs atm is bc I hit my season goal on my rogue

[slate marlin]

you can be a tier if u want

[swift tinsel]

still think sub is the most fun spec in game

[slate marlin]

but that wont change sitting in lfg for 1 hour

[young mural]

tierlists are extremely meme, but this is a statistics based tierlist from archon.gg

[slate marlin]

or feeling useless without windfury

[young mural]

dont see sub in A tier for high keys

[wide kernel]

i was watching yoda last night, he has it in A, the wowhead article also lists it as such, I'm not sure where that one comes from

[slate marlin]

thats archon

[swift tinsel]

don't they basically pull rio data

[slate marlin]

its just some average of m+ score

[young mural]

yes as i've written

[wide kernel]

well it doesnt help that noone plays sub and that sub actually requires a comp, thats not unimportant

[slate marlin]

someone said they dont know where that came from

[swift tinsel]

I mean does sub really require anything other than skyfury

[wide kernel]

like the difference between no shaman and shaman + warrior and monk is really big

that alone would skew usuage statistics

[young mural]

here's average DPS on high keys, since I feel like M+ score is a pretty worthless metric of class balancing

pretty pog no?

[half comet]

are .5 patches historically supposed to have a lot of class changes? this one seems a bit bare in comparison to the last 3 tiers

(it has 0)

[young mural]

no

[dusty totem]

Sub does low overall this is known

[young mural]

not really

[wide kernel]

how many keys are done with a bad comp though

[dusty totem]

none

i play all three specs so i only play sub if comp is good

[young mural]

the fact that the stars have to align, you need to do pulls around your CDs and you need a certain comp to make the spec good makes it inherently bad imo

compare it to a fucking chicken that just makes stars fall from sky and boom theres infinite damage for ya

[wide kernel]

yeah thats true, and you get into territory where you need essentially a full premade

[young mural]

exactly

well sadge

[wide kernel]

meanwhile you see shindig doing 5.7 in 16 floodgate on sin

with relatively good comp

[young mural]

yhea like

if you play literally perfectly

raidbots level perfect no globals missed absolutely perfect CD management

youre not doing even close to that overall as sub

[wide kernel]

i dunno

i feel like on floodgate you could see 4.5 if you did really well

[plush roost]

I mean theres more to m+ than overall

[swift tinsel]

from that same data, sub is timing the same level keys as sin

[young mural]

yhea, which is 1.2M behing sin O_O

[wide kernel]

maybe that's even a lowball

[dusty totem]

Nahh that is not lowball bro

[wide kernel]

in lower gear than what we have atm i saw casual doing 4mil in ML, zeross did pretty good from a vid i watched

[young mural]

sure, but whats does sub bring to the table compared to assassination?

[jaunty heath]

ST

[young mural]

if you say funnel damage ill cut my wrists rn

[jaunty heath]

A lot of it

[young mural]

this

[slate marlin]

thats just zeross tbf

[young mural]

only thing

[wide kernel]

sub has high base DR, good ST, varied damage profile depending on mob size

[plush roost]

Bring sin to dfc instead of sub

See if its better

[jaunty heath]

Yeah idk theres dungeons where you just don’t need sins aoe

[young mural]

it is

[plush roost]

It is not

[jaunty heath]

And in those you would take the boss damage over sins aoe

[dusty totem]

For timer sub is probably better in dfc

[plush roost]

100% the current routing for dfc prefers sub over sin

[jaunty heath]

100%

Same for top man

[wide kernel]

my point also is kinda we don't really have a LOT of really high level data from sub, partially because undertuning and partially because not enough people play it

[plush roost]

Xav with sub rogue takes 45 seconds off the timer alone

[young mural]

how

[plush roost]

2 globals you're back upstairs

[slate marlin]

rgue is already a low played class, and withing a class people tend to play the strongest spec

[plush roost]

More overall group dps

[slate marlin]

so ofc theres low sub data

[jaunty heath]

Also dances for banners

[young mural]

ah sure

[jaunty heath]

Can move them around

[wide kernel]

sub is also hard and people flock to easy classes

[young mural]

yhea thats correct, you can explode your buddies

and the banners

[dusty totem]

It is not really a dmg increase to get up fast if u dedicate a lot of dmg to do it tho

[swift tinsel]

its really not hard, people just think it is so they give up quick or don't even try

[jaunty heath]

That dungeon doesn’t have great pull sizes either

So sub just auto rolls that dungeon

[wide kernel]

i think it's pretty hard to play it really well, moreso than other stuff just cause its CD managment dependent and any mistake is huge

[jaunty heath]

Compared to sin

Loads on mini bosses

[slate marlin]

i mean

[young mural]

yhea if you throw a dance in there you'll for sure be wasting a shadow dance

[slate marlin]

flag window is 90% of the spec

[dusty totem]

And if u don't sub is the slowest spec at getting back up

[young mural]

yhea ToP is the only dungeon this season i feel like sub outperforms sin

the only one

[plush roost]

Dfc im telling you

[jaunty heath]

Dfc for timer for sure

[wide kernel]

the fact we get dfc and top is pretty big imo

[plush roost]

The damage you do to the kobolds on first boss is irrelevant

[wide kernel]

the other ones we can do kinda well on

[young mural]

we can agree to disagree

[jaunty heath]

Idk we can but tell me how sin is good for timer in dfc

[wide kernel]

cinderbrew i've seen cmlo get ok numbers

[jaunty heath]

Compared to sub

I really don’t need the shitters to die in dfc rather have the stupid mini bosses die

[young mural]

just more damage to packs compared to sub, and theres a lot of trash in that dungeon. but as sin you'll of course leave the boss damage up to your team

[jaunty heath]

What packs

[dusty totem]

Sin is faster on packs and on first boss i think

[jaunty heath]

Most of dfc is shitters

[dusty totem]

but overall still slower yeah

[plush roost]

There are 7 pulls in dfc lol

[jaunty heath]

And they are all full of small mobs

Yes bro

[young mural]

yhea with large target counts where sub sucks

[dusty totem]

The ones in color

[jaunty heath]

Theres mobs dying to the demise

Doesnt matter

0%

All that matters in dfc is the mini bosses and bosses

[dusty totem]

We agree that sub is faster u just asked a question i answered

[jaunty heath]

I didn’t really answer you tbf

[young mural]

ok lets agree then

sub is better for 2 dungeons

kek

great spec!

[jaunty heath]

Floodgate also after second boss you’d go sub to be optimal

Obv until then sin rocks

[young mural]

rogue is so fucked

we cant run 1 spec the whole dungeon

rookery for example, great dungeon for outlaws but I've seen people going assassination for 1st pull and switching after 💀

[jaunty heath]

Idk about cinderbrew I could see going out before ipa or like after first pull/boss to swap sub is good too

I can’t 100% confirm this tho

Just my thinking

[young mural]

yhea youre ragebaiting

[jaunty heath]

What

[young mural]

wdym switch specs in a dungeon

[jaunty heath]

Am I ragebsaiting

Brother

[young mural]

you cannot do that in high keys my man

[jaunty heath]

It’s so common

Especially in high keys

[dusty totem]

lol

[jaunty heath]

Are you drunk

[dusty totem]

This guy

[jaunty heath]

XD

[young mural]

[jaunty heath]

„You cannot do that in high keys“ - probably the only place you would even do that

Sure lemme run out in my weekly 10

Very worth

[dusty totem]

Is kinda funny to do tho

confuses the hell out of pugs

[jaunty heath]

Gotta be careful group might deisband

They think you leaving

[dusty totem]

I take my chances

[young mural]

yhea minus 20-30s for the rogue to switch specs mid dungeon

great job

[jaunty heath]

Bro

You new to m+ or?

[young mural]

extremely worth

[dusty totem]

It is very common bro

[wide kernel]

it would take like 10s or something right

[jaunty heath]

Is this your first season or

[dusty totem]

we did it in nearly all seasons

[wide kernel]

in brew

[jaunty heath]

It’s so many seasons you do that

[young mural]

i know its common, and my point is that it shouldnt be

[dusty totem]

lol

[jaunty heath]

It’s worth it

What do you mean

[young mural]

does a druid go out to switch to feral in some pulls??

thats just trash game design if you have to do that

[dusty totem]

Maybe they should but they are bad at game

[young mural]

clearly not intended gameplay

[dusty totem]

avg boomkin

[jaunty heath]

Okay we can argue it’s bad gameplay

[young mural]

sure ad hominem yourself then

[jaunty heath]

Thats fine

[young mural]

clown

[jaunty heath]

Your argument was its not worth

Bro

Ur making a clown of yourself atm idk

You said it’s not worth, then deterred to gameplay after you saw people are agreeing

[proven plover]

dumb question alert

does numbing stack with curse of weakness?

or does weakness override it

since its higher percentage?

[lucid jackal]

stacks

[proven plover]

but numbing has more to it, so is it the same?

lol

ok ty

[hazy breach]

Cast speed stacks

Attack slow doesnt

[proven plover]

but weakness doesnt have cast speed reduction

[young mural]

i think he confused it with satyr curse

[proven plover]

im confused

[young mural]

then it doesnt stack man thats the answer

if curse of weakness is slowing only attack speed, and attack speed doesnt stack, then numbing poison and curse of weakness aren't stacking

[real panther]

my stupd *ss that just understood today that coup de grace is not an eviscerate and so its a difference trigger for danse

[swift tinsel]

I mean it is but it also isn't

bc it triggers things like finality, shadowed finishers

and can also reset tier stacks

[real panther]

yes sure, I was just talking about the danse macabre situation only

[proven plover]

we just tested curse of weakness and numbing in pvp, it does stack according to the atk speed of the person with both debuffs

does it function differently in pvp?

[left ledge]

Greetings Blizzard Balance Team,

I am simply writing a reminder here of the fact that it is not too late to buff sub rogue (sub rogue as in the Subtlety specialization for the Rogue class).

Thank you

[lilac stag]

35% Black Powder Buff

[hazy breach]

It didnt use to stack in DF in raids

[left ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-goku-angry-xenoverse-2-gif-7335905850737743765

[sacred yarrow]

thank you for the subclass clarification, in case blizz forgot it existed.

[molten citrus]

in pvp you use crippling basically 100% of the time

but it shouldn't function any differently no

[proven plover]

I mean according to the character sheet his atk speed did get reduced from both debuffs

idk a way that is not scuffed af to test it in pve

[paper iron]

wsnt it dh + lock stacked but not numbing?

something like that i remember from sl

[granite river]

and then swap to sub for last boss

[grave shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[raw pebble]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[autumn condor]

Any log reviewers

[twilit phoenix]

i can peep at ur logs

[steel horizon]

sorry sir. rogue is the second least played class, therefore you shall be ignored

[autumn condor]

That would be so much appreciated ❤️

[steel horizon]

and its funny because if aug wasnt a dead spec, you bet your ass that rogue would be dead last

[hollow spear]

What did sub stand for again?

suboptimal?

[uncut socket]

if i want to run a quicksim but with 6/6hero cards trinket (which i do not have) what do i put in the input?

[hazy breach]

Topgear

[uncut socket]

how do i add the trinket tho?

[hazy breach]

Type house of cards and the ilvl you want it at into the "add item" box

[uncut socket]

smh

its so big

i was looking around for a small box somewhere

ignore everything

haha

ty

[fierce roost]

any trinket option if I don't have HoC for mplus?

[dreamy badger]

Pvp trinket

[fierce roost]

pvp trinket and peacemaker?

[frail night]

do i try to align cds with a 2 min trinket or just blow them with or without

[dreamy badger]

Pacemaker or energy drink, the one on higher upgrade track

[fierce roost]

ok ty !

[lucid jackal]

go get pvp badge

[torpid harbor]

Is Exhilarating Execution better than Ephemeral Bond for higher keys?

[frail night]

i play sin so ive got a mythic signet, sims want a heroic HoC but i didnt sim that trinket, is it comperable?

[lucid jackal]

Its going to be better than signet yes

[frail night]

roger

[sly shore]

Looks inside

makes sense

[wide kernel]

is that a reddit link or

[glacial orbit]

druid numbers are inflated by farming bots

[oak grotto]

If outside of dance but in more than +3, you should use Shuriken Storm right?

But if you have Shadow Techniques, do you use Backstab?

If I have enough to give me full CP

[lucid jackal]

2+ targets outside of dance u press storm

[tepid trellis]

last i checked 3 or more

[tepid trellis]

and no shadow techniques have 0 impact on on that

[oak grotto]

Why? Isnt it better to use Backstab cause Shuriken storm does no damage?

Or is it the same cause Backstab also does 0 damage lmfao

[lucid jackal]

CP is more valuable

[tepid trellis]

at 3 targets its just a combo point difference

that is too large

[lucid jackal]

store your shadow technique for when u go into dance

[oak grotto]

Ah okay

So it's not worth to use cause you wanna save the CP basically?

[tepid trellis]

its more like you use ineffecient builders

at that point

[oak grotto]

Yeah but it still grants full CP is what I'm thinking if you have Shadow Tech

[tepid trellis]

a 1 cp builder vs a 3cp builder

[young mural]

sucks to be a rogue i guess 😦

[oak grotto]

But I guess you'd rather save them and try to use spender back to back?

[tepid trellis]

then it grants full with storm as well

but saves you 2 cp

[oak grotto]

Ah so it's basically whatever

[tepid trellis]

its just combo point economy

[oak grotto]

And save the CP for dance I guess like @lucid jackal said

[tepid trellis]

well you dont really save them

you just arent using them ineffeciently

[slate marlin]

dont u still bs for flawless form?

if no dance ant <7 targets

[lucid jackal]

ya

[tepid trellis]

you can

but it doesent really matter

[young mural]

yhea bs once and go back to s storm no?

its as 7 targets that flawless doesnt really matter anymore and you focus on appliyng find weakness on all mobs and spam black powder correct?

[tepid trellis]

yes you BP inside of dance at 7+

[bright sundial]

question is there a bug list somewhere?

[tepid trellis]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[young mural]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[bright sundial]

ty

[young mural]

oh nimble is physical

good to know

then armor matters to it

[tepid trellis]

its very very very minor

so minor that it isnt worth it to storm below 7 targets

for FW

minor

[bright sundial]

wait arent all these bugs killers wtf

[tepid trellis]

as in it does fuck all

[bright sundial]

lmao wowhead wasnt lying in that subs weakness is bugs

[iron obsidian]

at what point does circlet get replaced? double myth track rings?

[wide kernel]

Does nimble apply find weakness from bs? Or am I misunderstanding

[tepid trellis]

no

Nimble is physical dmg therefor does more dmg to targets with FW on them

but its so shit that its not worth doing

[bright sundial]

wait really

ive been throwing 1 ss at 5+ just to get them buff if it crits wtf

[tepid trellis]

there is a reason why we dont storm in dance until we start using BP

xD

[tardy spear]

Does anyone know why we didnt use secret technique in shadowlands and took master of shadows? But now we use secret technique and no longer take master of shadows, just find it kind of funny

[bright sundial]

ph my b should did more research before gearin sub lmao

[tepid trellis]

it was tuned like shit

did less dmg on AoE than a BP cast

and did a teeny tiny bit more than a single evis cast on single target

[tardy spear]

oh lmfao, ok that explains it cause I was just so confused, i played all of SL and never realized ST was even a talent lol

[tepid trellis]

so the energy was better

[tardy spear]

till DF

[wide kernel]

Like on 4 mobs it's not worth it to storm once for FW?

[tepid trellis]

nope

[wide kernel]

That's crazy

[tepid trellis]

or rather is not worth to do the "force" fw

in dance tech

[bright sundial]

kinda weird that fw isnt good its our first and forced talent point

[tepid trellis]

you still have some rng to have it up from storming outside of dances

[tepid trellis]

well it only matters for the target you are hitting with eviscerates directly

or in AoE when you use BP

[bright sundial]

what nible doesnt get dmg boast from it either?

[wide kernel]

Oh

[tepid trellis]

its just an enabler for Shadowed finishers

[tepid trellis]

it does but the armor reduction is not high

[wide kernel]

He's saying that eviscerate is already buffed from fw when it applies to other targets

Because nimble

[tepid trellis]

its only the armor reduction that gives nimble more dmg on AoE

but the armor reduction is not high

so using strikes

is more dmg

than applying FW

with storm since storm does 0 dmg compared to a strike

[wide kernel]

Yeah I understand

I was under the impression nimble was effected by FW on the secondary targets

[tepid trellis]

yeh, nah just need FW on main target for shadowed finishers to work with nimble

[wide kernel]

Is sub crap is high keys generally?

[tepid trellis]

compared to top specs

yes

can it do title keys just fine

yeh

wont do rank 1 keys tho i think

[leaden prairie]

I mean its kinda as good as sin rn tho

rogue isnt really meta

but

can do ok

[tepid trellis]

its like top-mid in keys

[leaden prairie]

its kinda like the 4th/5th choice

[tepid trellis]

is kinda how id put it

[leaden prairie]

like you have uhdk > all mages specs > druid > shaman maybe

then its kinda rogue

[tepid trellis]

stormbringer enhance doing some good numbers again

[leaden prairie]

ye i heard

[tepid trellis]

yuh just quickly saw zorthas do a few keys earlier

[leaden prairie]

i mean tbf

watching one tricks do keys with randoms

never a good idea to get a good sense of a spec

[tepid trellis]

i was more comparing him to when he played a bit of stormbringer the day before patch

[lucid jackal]

Ya sub is not that bad in keys

Sin is more aoe sub is more st

smaller pll dungeons are also real nice for sub

[wide kernel]

Let's say a comp is sub / shaman / warrior / druid. Is it worth it to try and also fit monk in there? Like is MW or WW good enough or fit well enough to be worth it over other healers? / slots

[lucid jackal]

Who is the tank

cuz brew is pretty ass

[wide kernel]

Druid or warrior most likely, kinda theorizing what kinda comp I want

Somewhat curious about brew after the buffs but I doubt it

[swift tinsel]

Supposedly still ass after buffs but idk enough people that play it consistently to get more opinions lol

[slate marlin]

i played with one in top 14

all tanks are good on 14s tho

was decent, wouldnt have minded doing the 15 with him

[swift tinsel]

It’s kinda like bdk where you can tell immediately if they’re a one trick and you’re set, or they’re checking it out and it’s fucking awful

[slate marlin]

im not sure

i have no clue what their cds are

so i didnt know what he was doing

he didnt die tho

[slate marlin]

can go to raid comp tool in wowhead and create different 5 man groups

like this

[wide kernel]

I guess my question more directly is, is mistweaver actually good?

All I ever see are really bad ones in pugs

I hear it's externals are kinda bad with life caccoon? Being a 5min cd or some crap of disc's basic shield

[slate marlin]

they do good dmg

another melee slot on healer tho

[swift tinsel]

They have a really good toolkit for m+

Can cover a lot of diff damage patterns

Trick is finding one that knows how to use the full kit

[wide kernel]

Thanks

[tribal blade]

is this new cooldown manager anywhere close to being as good as WAs

[lucid jackal]

probs not but its nice for it to exist

[tribal blade]

i'm wondering if it'll even show basic stuff like pandemic

[random mason]

Most likely not (yet?)

[spark tusk]

They have to push out a first iteration like they did editmode

there will be more changes pushed out for it in time I'm sure

It's better than weakauras in that you press like 3 buttons and they're all on for you without you having to set them up individually

[tribal blade]

i imagine it'll also put a lot less strain on your game

being able to cut down on WA usage

[worldly portal]

Yeah I remember Editmode had a lot of small things that were missing like the primary bar's transparency couldnt be turned off

[lucid jackal]

I've used edit mode since launch

[spark tusk]

Same

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait to see the in game cd manager have a glow and target count for CT.

[hallow grotto]

How do you achieve 6 sec out of combat in a M+

[alpine wraith]

happens quite often

[stiff stirrup]

Technically you have to remain out of combat for about 8 seconds

[pure jay]

asked this in the sin channel, curious about sub as well: how do y'all min/max on OAB when raid lead says to swap to every add?

[tribal blade]

well as sin you're kinda fucked unless you vanish to reapply mark or hold DN

as sub you can just shadowstep immediately and start burning them

and as sub you play your dances around the add spawns

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade is I good boy?

[tribal blade]

nice!

how much dps is that

oh just on 1 mob got it

[lilac stag]

just bombshells

[tribal blade]

either your boomys are afk or they're doing balls

[pure jay]

I can play either sin/sub

but looking at all logs

neither spec swaps

[tribal blade]

sub is way better at add damage

[pure jay]

but trying to be a good soldier and follow orders

[tribal blade]

you should be swapping

[pure jay]

but sub still doesnt swap from what I've seen

[tribal blade]

at least at the start of prog

[pure jay]

hmmmmmmmmm

[tribal blade]

those are kill pulls where they've fully optimized damage so could be different for them

[pure jay]

im looking at prog kills

[tribal blade]

but if you're early progging bandit it'll be a struggle to kill adds in time

[pure jay]

not

[tribal blade]

that's what i mean, prog kills will have fully optimized damage at that point

so it's less necessary to add swap

but if you want to prog bandit early on you need to just put everything into add damage

as priority

then slowly you can add more boss dam

also i guess depends on your comp and how good your raid is at doing dps

[lilac stag]

bawls

[pure jay]

i don't really understand what you mean

i feel like prog kills(rank ~240-300) are similar to where we are

not like i'm looking at world top 50 progs

[tribal blade]

so you mean kills right

[pure jay]

so idk how it's fully optimated

[tribal blade]

as in the boss is dead

[pure jay]

yea

[tribal blade]

so they've done what, over 100 pulls

[pure jay]

as in the first time a given guild kills the boss

yea

[tribal blade]

yes

so they've done a LOT of optimizing

[pure jay]

i suppose

[tribal blade]

when you're starting to do a boss nothing is optimized

[pure jay]

im not use to sub rogues swapping though

[tribal blade]

and stuff is all over the palce

[pure jay]

so dunno how to balance that

[tribal blade]

like my raid just started bandit prog and the biggest cause of wiping so far has been adds not dying in time

[pure jay]

right

[tribal blade]

so we just hard swap

[pure jay]

we also just started

[tribal blade]

so we can see the fight

there's no point hitting the boss and then wiping because adds don't die

[lilac stag]

me and the DH running around on bombshells.

[pure jay]

think i get what you're saying but not exactly my question, feel like we do more damage not swapping

[pure jay]

facts

[lilac stag]

Flag boss. Hit adds. You’re fine.

Swap less as raid gets comfy

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-think-thinking-hmm-gif-11570469479394618754

maybe ill swap to sub

better then dealing with dm

[lilac stag]

oh kekw thought you were sub

[pure jay]

i play both

[lilac stag]

musta missed that

[lilac stag]

play outlaw. real winner

[obtuse shard]

Yeah lol outlaw would have more adds dmg, you play sub is for the 1m40s premium set

[pure jay]

i wish I liked outlaw

i just suck at rogue these days it seems

do fine in heroic, can't translate it to mythic

[pure jay]

where would you send CDs?

[indigo steppe]

i was doing way more damage in mythic after looking at lorrgs

and seeing when other ppl use cds

[wide kernel]

There have been multiple threads on reddit today with either titles or comments sections complaining about the lack of rogue dev attention

[pure jay]

i do, my issue feels like strats/managing my aoe

[wide kernel]

That's nice to see

[indigo steppe]

was all green before

like on vexie i used to just use flag on cd i saved it for like damn near 50s or some shit

but i wouldn't have gotten 3 casts off so it was worth

and went crazy on 2nd burn phase

[pure jay]

lorggs kinda hard for prog

[indigo steppe]

100%

[pure jay]

like, all this damage probably cleaving off onto adds versus needing to swap so much

[pure jay]

you blowing all the other CD's on adds?

[iron obsidian]

whats my job as sub on Mythic OAB?

i just nuke adds, right?

[pure jay]

seems a lot of us are getting to OAB this week, big hype

[lilac stag]

whatever your raid needs mate

[iron obsidian]

yeah we coulda gotten more prog on him this week if we didnt absolutely troll on Sprocket and Stix

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/bookio-gif-13932157847762104386

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade 5%. ball bumped into another sending them into a bomb 😐

[lilac stag]

i mean you're playing a three dps class that has 3 specific dmg profiles. can't just copy/paste shit from lorrgs. if adds arent getting killed, be the hero and kill them

[pure jay]

yea, just dont know what lasts on em, fair fair

[lilac stag]

wdym?

[pure jay]

like.. i feel like a lot of my issues in mytihc is not min/maxing my CD's, i.e blowing flag on an add that dies in 5 seconds. Not saying thats what im doing, but just an example

but i suppose symbols/dance aren't the same mechanically like that

[lilac stag]

why are you flagging anything besides the boss?

[lilac stag]

what else is there?

everything else is a buff

[wide kernel]

What are your guys' preferred comp if you're playing sub. Just generally in m+

[lilac stag]

anything with a shaman. otherwise play the other two specs

[pure jay]

yea thats fair

im thinking blades, sectech, etc

[lilac stag]

ofc you want to try to max the cd windows, but a slightly fucked up window with dead adds is better then perfect cds and adds wiping the raid

[pure jay]

yea

for sure

[warm marlin]

not sure if it has changed but when we killed bandit we were holding dps near p2 anyway

so i full swapped adds entire prog

on kill pull i sent 2nd dance of flag into the 3rd add before flame coin deposit way off to the side not even cleaving boss, we still had to hold dps

just hit add

[pure jay]

sheeesh

would you save symbols/dance/sectech for adds?

[tribal blade]

noooo

[fringe lava]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Kill next week for sure. Felt like cosplaying nightcrawler bamping all over the place with step.

assa way cozier on that fight, but needed more bombaburst

[wide kernel]

For really big packs where it's hard to see every nameplate, is there a WA / add-on to tell.me to interrupt?

For my target and/or FT

[tall hatch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[fierce cedar]

maybe a batter nameplate would be helpful

[wide kernel]

They aren't huge or anything, the problem is when there's like 20 mobs

[fierce cedar]

mm im not sure what you could use otherwise

i sont know any addon thst tells you when to interrupt

[rocky ocean]

focus is useful

[lilac stag]

There are platter profiles that have color coded mobs to help you know what is priority/caster/etc

Quazii is one for example

Focus the caster and use a focus kick macro.

[wide kernel]

I have/do both. The reason for the WA is just so I can put mental bandwidth elsewhere and just get the priority casts in huge pulls

[tribal blade]

i'm using this WA https://wago.io/MgUtMFTM5

i edited it to do this

so i get a text to speech INTERRUPT on my focus casting

and i chose a voice that cuts through all the other sound bs happening

[wide kernel]

thanks ill check it out

[tribal blade]

i think i edited it more than just that

it had prerequisite kicks it would trigger on, i turned that off so it was just any spell being cast by my focus and was interruptible

you might need to tinker with it

[wet lava]

In aoe when ur doing the shadow strike bp spam is it worth Pressing coup de gra if it procs? Or is bp prio

[proven plover]

Use coup if Fazed is up

[dense geyser]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

you always use your coup proc, yes

[quasi wedge]

sim currently sends third SoD at the last 3 seconds of second SoD after flag, but does not send sectech bc flag cd is not between 40 and 20. is this intended?

it is weird bc it uses SoD bc sectech cd is under 8 sec, but does not use sectech

[hollow spear]

Sim is sometimes doing weird stuff

[quasi wedge]

and then it decides to use sectech without SoD or dance bc flag cd is between 40 and 20

[hollow spear]

Just ignore it and do what the guide says

[quasi wedge]

but don't iterations like this ruin the sim output

[distant plinth]

Hey chaps, just want to confirm something. I have the crafted daguer 675. If i craft a 675 sword, will that count as a secondary weapon allowing me to upgrade my other weapons?

[steel zinc]

If you have both slots 675 no matter what weapon it counts

Let's say you get mugzee rare 1h mythic 678 and you crafted a dagger 675 the 2nd mythic dagger (let's say from the vault) is 662 it can be upgraded then to 675 for free.

[hollow spear]

You sure?

[quasi wedge]

100% sure for rogue at least

[hollow spear]

Could swear that didn't always work last season

[distant plinth]

Outlaw can use both dagger + sword so I thought it would work

Just want to make sure before I craft if someone tested it though

[quasi wedge]

yes also sub can use OH sword even if it sucks and doesn't drop for sub

its not that complicated for rogue

everything counts

guys when rupture is already up
I flag into sod dance sectech right?
not flag into evis/bp into sod dance stab blades sectech

[hollow spear]

I just rerupture

[karmic stream]

Alright boys, I need some help. I've got two daggers 665 and want to run an off-spec for a kind of 'Omni-spec approach' (Have access to Mastery/Crit gear > not all bis but good enough to have either Crit or Mastery my highest stat depending on Flask).

I made a Sin' and Sub spec and have been dicking around with both.

I want to play Sub, I respect it's nuances and difficultly. I love it's theme and just really find it cool.

HOWEVER. The sheer amount of keybinds... Holy F I was not prepared.

Sin' is so brain dead I, um.. spit.

So, I'm reading/watching/lurking. Can someone please tell educate my noob arse on which of the two is stronger? (Raid and M+ runs).

And if they are close, please sell Sub for me. Im almost over the line but I NEED your yummy confirmation bias 🤑

[quasi wedge]

i currently do that too

[hollow spear]

Sin is stronger, but Sub is not hopeless

[karmic stream]

Say-what-now? Since when?

[hollow spear]

You don't want to use oh sword

Less shadowcraft procs

[quasi wedge]

yes I was saying you can use abilities with OH sword on

[hollow spear]

A 645 oh dagger probably outperforms a 678 oh sword

[quasi wedge]

but far from optimal

[karmic stream]

Gay.. daggers are fun but I kind of like using 1h + dagger for xmog aesthetic

[hollow spear]

Play outlaw then

[quasi wedge]

it's basically one hand fury

thb if you use all the forbidden dps loss macros
sub is super easy and straight forward

[karmic stream]

Oooh. And where may I find these Macros brother?

[proven plover]

Why would you do that tho

Just play sin at that point

[quasi wedge]

i mean you can start playing sub with them and throw them away one by one

[karmic stream]

That's actually kinda what I was planning until I can spend some time to get my keybinds sorted

[hollow spear]

I wouldn't recommend that

Breeds bad habits

[karmic stream]

Because Sub is cool.

[hollow spear]

And trains muscle memory for stuff you won't use down the line

[karmic stream]

Fair

Well then, I guess I'll just take the macro option

[quasi wedge]

true I can't use coldblood well still

[hollow spear]

Use the macro for shadowblade with pot and racial

The rest you should keybind

[quasi wedge]

it's safe to use shadowblades+racial+trinket

i also think coldblood+sectech is fine esp when this season ends no?

[karmic stream]

Are these in pins 📌 or somewhere else?

[hollow spear]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[karmic stream]

Ty

[hollow spear]

What does that have to do with the season ending?

Having cb macroed is fine as long as you also have a separate keybind for sectec

[quasi wedge]

using cb with second sectech in flag got* more important with current tier set

[hollow spear]

It was already better end of last season

[quasi wedge]

yeah but even more

[hollow spear]

It's just generally better

Flag ramping up juices your second sectec may more than the first

[quasi wedge]

guide says it was 0.3-0.4% but became 1% with current tier

"I only recommend optimizing for it after being comfortable with all parts of the rotation, as it requires extra buttons to set up. "

[hollow spear]

Yeah, but doing this will also prepare you for changes

Because you have the keybinds

[spark plover]

!log

[tepid canyon]

how do I properly sim for st/m+? Is it patchwerk/dslice or something specific?

[tribal blade]

yes exactly that

[severe prism]

in dance in 7+ target do i spam shuriken storm ? or only as a 2nd builder to proc fw and then go back to shadowstrike ?

[upbeat escarp]

Shuriken storm once then back to shadowstrike bp

[fierce cedar]

sub buffs next year?

[keen dome]

Sub buffs.. tmorrow!

Wait no that's saturday. monday I guess

[north schooner]

sub is getting buffed by getting baseline killing spree

[lilac stag]

You can do better than that.

[haughty mural]

by getting deleted

[lilac stag]

@void ocean following up on Stix. If your raid is at all struggling with bombs run sub. Assa more than fine if raid is actually killing them.

[void ocean]

What do you mean struggling with bombs

[lilac stag]

they’re not getting killed fast enough

[void ocean]

Bombshells?

[lilac stag]

yes

[void ocean]

Ooh

Well Im already in the process of respecing to assa cause i got hc signet last night

[lilac stag]

also getting picked for ball not as annoying.

[void ocean]

Got picked 2 times last night on hc stix 🤣

[lilac stag]

Heroic HoC should beat signet

Unless you don’t have

[void ocean]

Tho we had only 15 ppl due to holidays n shit

[lilac stag]

ye

[void ocean]

Ofc I dont have

[lilac stag]

People traveling already

[void ocean]

I have hc lens tho and signet beats it for like 1-2k dps

[haughty rose]

is this a bug or is there any legit reason to hit sec tec right before blades and trinkets, potion etc?

i saw this multiple times on wowanalyzer now

[void ocean]

U want to be able to fit both sec techs in blades window

[lilac stag]

1. That’s correct
2. wA doesn’t support sub

[void ocean]

Thats why u want them as tight as possible

[haughty rose]

sure but it also work if i hit sec tec right AFTER blades

with 4 seconds remaining

if this isnt a bug then this guy wasted a sec tec which wasn't empowered by CD's

[lilac stag]

The clones hit after the cast. You’re putting blades in before they hit

[void ocean]

And they r shadow

Tho i still fire sblades before

[haughty rose]

ah that's interesting

although i don't see any benefits in this

[void ocean]

I mean i dont believe theres a serious difference in using sb just before or just after

[haughty rose]

probably not yeah. some do it like this some don't

same with dance > backstab > symbols instead dance > symbols > backstab

[lilac stag]

This is a timing of Sectech

[haughty rose]

i can see why this makes sense but i've watched quite a few top sub rogues timelines and some do it some dont

[lilac stag]

You want dance up at specific times

You want sod at specific times

Both relevant on other CDs

I would read method guild or IV or wowhead guides

There’s a number of moving parts. Each has different optimizations

To min max dps

Top logs aren’t always correct

Just happen to have better rng while playing mostly correct

[haughty rose]

wowhead only gets you to 95% imo. i wanna milk the rest

i think i know wowheads sub guide in and out

but it only tells you so much

[lilac stag]

…

[haughty rose]

its literally like that

[lilac stag]

@vale pine where’s the other 5% of sub and why isn’t in the guide. Lol

Then read method and IV

[void ocean]

He keepin some sauce for himself

[lilac stag]

Literally all 3 tell you everything you need.

[haughty rose]

it's only logical. the best guide in the world can't tell you all the little details.

[lilac stag]

You haven’t met sub rogue guide writers

[void ocean]

I didnt even get around that sd into backstab into sod, what is that opt

[void ocean]

Bruh I dunno how many class discords you visit, but I doubt many have so in-depth tc like rogues

[lilac stag]

Like I said Wowanayler isn’t supported and what you’re going to get out of it is extremely limited.

[void ocean]

E.g. fdk channel has memes in pins 🤣

[haughty rose]

non i only play sub

[lilac stag]

The 95% sub rogue guilde is know how to do your flag & sblades window. Everything else is covered in the guides. Learning the specific fights is up to the individual based on what your raid needs dmg wise and where/when.

there’s no hidden tech not being shared

[void ocean]

Also it depends who u raid with, if u raid with some op folks who deliver tons of deeps, ur fights will be shorter and ur parses will be higher

[haughty rose]

true but what i'm saying is that those tiny little details like hitting blades before sectec aren't covered by the guide but you can see on wowanalyzer that people do it like that and there, most likely, is a reason behind it even tho it's just 20k more dps or whatever

[lilac stag]

The guide tells you what you’re supposed to be doing. Hitting blades before or right after Sectech is a wash. You’re literally hitting it mid gcd

[void ocean]

I macroed it 🤣

My "bomb" macro has trinket sb and sec tech

[hollow spear]

Not sure what you are looking for, but it doesn't exist

It's all here

If you want to "milk the last 5%", you have to become one with the padding

[lilac stag]

Where’s the magic sauce ?!?!

[plush roost]

Even the "minmaxes" like backstab>sod is neutral with sod>backstabf

[lilac stag]

Never underestimate the time and effort sub rogues put into their apl and TC work only to have it torn apart by wowanalzer rotation searching.

[plush roost]

Like there really isn't anything secret techy with sub rogue out of the guide

[lilac stag]

The actual percents killed me. Why did I look here at 4am.

[plush roost]

They tell you coldblood on second sec tec, coup first in dance if its up is .6% gain, sblades on or between sec tec

Its all there

[lilac stag]

Think it’s closer to 1%

.6 was old tier

[plush roost]

I made the number up I just know its a gain lmfao

[lilac stag]

fuu literally put in ez mode and more advanced mode gains

In the guide

[plush roost]

Fuu is quite literally the goat

Best part is all the tech is also in the pins usually so anything new you can check the pins for

[lilac stag]

and a few of us try to check the guide for clarity since it is English as a second language

[vale pine]

what?

[lilac stag]

Sarcasm. Keep reading

[vale pine]

oh

[lilac stag]

Sorry forgot the /s tag

It’s early

[limpid sage]

Wait you coup before sectec?

[vale pine]

if anything is missing from wowhead let me know, but everything should be on the site

[lilac stag]

It is

Wowanalyzer lurker assuming you’re hiding the juice

[plush roost]

In your non flag window shadow dances if coup comes up before you press sec tec then you use coup

[tribal blade]

you're not really farming sectec cdr between cds as hard as when you're in cds

[plush roost]

15% finisher increase and the cdr on sec tec between dances doesn't really matter because you're restricted by dance and sod cds

[tribal blade]

getting sectec up faster just means you can use your next dance+symbols quicker but you don't get extra casts

isn't it amazing having cdr attached to spells we don't get extra casts of

[plush roost]

Well you say rhat

But on sprocket i got 2 extra sec tecs off between dances and cds due to having to hold for a bit

[lilac stag]

I love people doing their own research but don’t make assumptions that anything is hidden by all three of the guide writers.

[plush roost]

One at around 1:05 in the fight and another around 3:05

[lilac stag]

I wonder how many top parses are still doing long opener

[tepid trellis]

probs a decent bit

[lilac stag]

and top pareses still aren’t top parses with how many logs are hidden

[tepid trellis]

now that would matter 1 bit if our dmg wasent below tanks out of cds, less dmg than a natty sectech crit

[plush roost]

Hey man its 4 stacks of flawless form extra on the fight

Gotta get that .01% increase

Hehe

[tepid trellis]

now the tank that tanked the boss was your colour for 25 se

c

no FW for you