#subtlety
mint swift
Just this
Because every fucking group has a like
669 fire mage doing 1mil overall
in a key
bleak night
every discord needs that command
mint swift
It's fucking great
twilit phoenix
!goon
mint swift
!Sex
mint swift
Still love how the THUG hotline summons the GOON squad
Lmao that gif is so funny
saw someone post one that said
"Jarvis im low on karma"
alpine wraith
jarvis we need sub rogue buffs
make mastery affect fatal intent so it does 0.4% instead of 0.1
tight moss
was just comparing my logs to other sub rouges in raid how tf do ppl get like 10% on shadow blade i get dmg goes up with ilvl but i only get around 6%
10% in overall dmg for a raid fight
bleak night
data aggregation so good
tight moss
they do only use the top 50 rogues of that spec
also belf isnt too bad
free purge and energy def not bis but not bad
random hare
yea but u wont get a belf for that legit useless
tight moss
can also be used to clear M+ affixes
plus i bet they only use it for the energy gain aspect
purge itself is kinda useless
plus not like racials do fuckin anything anymore
not really worth playing a certain race for a racial
old venture
15 energy is kinda useless tho
old venture
yeah I just love how it's like:
- Dwarf
10127938128931. everyone else
dusty totem
Orc and mag'har are busted
tight moss
i can do that with a toy XD
i mean maghar over orc 5k atk power meh
tho mag you get basically a third trink so okay ig
tho they still ugly
racials really only matter in pvp sadly
paper iron
Not opening it again
for what class?
i still dont know if i wanna go dwarf or nelf
dwarf is for sure better, but nelf has so much uses and better mog
random hare
dwarf is for sure better, but nelf has so much uses and better mog
go nelf its fine
u can meld casts and shit
kinda decent
paper iron
yea ikr
random hare
for what class?
sub rogue
paper iron
belf sub rogue
who does that
i mean isnt belf the most played race in the game still?
brittle plinth
I picked nelf on game launch, kind of stuck with it now. Do recommend though.
Playing the same toon even.
hybrid prism
72k Agility, 23,230(100.12%) Mastery, 15,097(19.19%) Versatility. 666 ilvl. We ballin'
unbuffed btw
real panther
scuse my french, but I am going to péter un plomb as we are bottom tier again:
real panther
x)
astral minnow
at least we beat aug always
"always"
sullen hare
Just need 2-3 more posts of class changes
paper iron
scuse my french, but I am going to péter un plomb as we are bottom tier again:
i agree, peting the plomb with you my ami
real panther
we should make few a 14 sub mm raid groups to fuck these data up
lilac stag
Good luck finding 14
shell willow
Lol that fall from grace was fast.
real panther
lmao
alpine wraith
i mean we always said
and this is with transmitter nerfed twice
otherwise we were week 1 beasts
lilac stag
From day 1 literally one 
buff away from sub being dead
alpine wraith
surely helped on wiping on rik
shell willow
It was fun while it lasted.
hazy breach
Its not strange that its that low on the overall chart
What is strange though is that there was no buffs
When others got buffed
lilac stag
What’s strange is people thinking realz or whoever is actually paying attention to sub
shell willow
Yeah I thought we'd get a buff. Idk what they could do though since they dont like our burst and nerfed sectech previously.
keen dome
We could still get a buff.
sullen hare
Nice joke
keen dome
I would never joke about a 25% BP buff.
wraith sphinx
They're gonna buff rupture trust
alpine wraith
the problem was the second nerf
and the second nerf to transmitter too
ah yea the classic buff rupture and builders
cant forget that one
maybe trickster will have 200% crit dmg on builders
shell willow
Transmitter should have been gutted and buffs to the spec should have been applied to offset it
alpine wraith
so goremaw can hit for 11m
wraith sphinx
Goremaw gaming lets fucking go
sullen hare
Transmitter should have been gutted and buffs to the spec should have been appli...
Lately sub changes have been removing 2 nice things for getting 1 nice thing in return
keen dome
let go of goremaw gaming imo
alpine wraith
it is a nice meme
they already killed
so
is next
or a redesign
idk how hard it wuld be to just make it buff the next 3 finishers
by 35%
wraith sphinx
why would it do that? That sounds like something a spec based on finishers would have
solemn creek
They could just revert all nerf they did the last 2 wave before patch release
If they dont like the burst. They need to rework the class... there aint getting around that anytime soon
candid raven
As long as they don't buff BP
proper latch
Did they fix the first boss in Rookery?
alpine wraith
no
alpine wraith
you need to hold dances when he is in the air yes
proper latch
I did
swift tinsel
we're down to 1 night a week mythic prog so I'm playing sub 1 night a week
alpine wraith
on pull you need to SoD 3 times
honest brook
guys in m+ on bosses is it ok full cd use 3 dance with secret and send 4rth secret naked till your flag coming up?
proper latch
you basically have to overcd while he is in the ground
Good idea, did not think about it, ty
alpine wraith
that or go strike flag sec tech
then get rupture whenever
but yea it is fucked up if he has more than 45 energy you cant send flag kinda
and have to wait the whole beams phase too zzz
brittle plinth
on pull you need to SoD 3 times
Is info like this consolidated anywhere?
proper latch
Clones just fall into the hole I think
brittle plinth
That's really useful
honest brook
Clones just fall into the hole I think
omg
proper latch
They really need to get rid of this summon bullshit on sectec
alpine wraith
i mean i did do videos like that in other seasons but no one cared
so closest thing you have now is eleem guide has a section i think
rain swallow
i mean i did do videos like that in other seasons but no one cared
because i didnt play sub other season, started it this season
i care 😦
lilac stag
well nothing changed really
So watch Eleems 4 month old video and adjust the tweaks
spec is 
swift tinsel
they're talking about clones not working on rookery first boss
brittle plinth
i mean i did do videos like that in other seasons but no one cared
We care
It's not like anyone has a good guide on playing that new bleed spec, I can't change now haha
stable badge
idk what to take lol
(im unsure how to sim right now cuz im coming from outlaw gear to sub lol )
brittle plinth
have you tried simming?
high flint
idk what to take lol
im fairly sure a hero signet is better than a champion house of cards
but yes do try simming if you havent
simC addon and raidbots website
high flint
damn i just looked on bloodmallet
the house of cards is a lot better than signet
even at champion vs hero
hell the champion house of cards is better than mythic 678 signet
plush roost
so i hear enhance got buffed to an insane degree
So did warlock xddddd
sweet epoch
What's the target amount to be using Secret Tech > Trickster Evis in mythic+?
I can't find it in like any guide other than one that said 7+. but watchinf people do keys they're doing on like 5
high flint
can someone tell me how a treacherous transmitter from last season is somehow better htan every other trinket for subtlety
LOL
short radish
can someone tell me how a treacherous transmitter from last season is somehow be...
big 1.5min trinket stonks
1mins are too weak
stable badge
im fairly sure a hero signet is better than a champion house of cards
its myth Signet
lilac stag
I love how the new guy goes from recommending signet over HoC to questioning everything about sub trinkets.
high flint
I love how the new guy goes from recommending signet over HoC to questioning eve...
and this is why i will never touch subtlety again
lilac stag
or just don’t spit out random advice if you’re not sure. 
high flint
or just don’t spit out random advice if you’re not sure. <:feelsloveman:58798229...
spicy
and sassy i see
molten citrus
What's the target amount to be using Secret Tech > Trickster Evis in mythic+?
you sec tech even on pure ST
lilac stag
Nah we just don’t enjoy seeing bad advice given out
high flint
Nah we just don’t enjoy seeing bad advice given out
did you miss the part where i corrected with the right information
after checking
high flint
looks like u did and wanted a sassy moment 😆
molten citrus
Wait, i typed wrong spell, sorry I meant Black Powder > Evis
ye thats 7+
lilac stag
nah I can’t be arsed
cyan saddle
!stats
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste
cyan saddle
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
severe vapor
where sub buffs
tribal blade
where sub buffs
stable badge
what kind of embelishment should i put on my weapon?
lilac stag
sure. or sim it
lucid jackal
can someone tell me how a treacherous transmitter from last season is somehow be...
Because the spec needs a 1:30 or less trinket to function
Which is HOC, Transmitter, Badge, and funhouse mirror
Funhouse and badge are bad
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
did you miss the part where i corrected with the right information
to be fair you also recommended hekili the other day
which is a big no no recommendation
if youre not acutally sure or confident about your information
spreading information is bad
high flint
hekili does give a rotation and something to follwo when you get lost in the rotation though
thats not incorrect
short radish
yeah but a rotation is sometimes not the correct rotation
and then learning from that sets you up even worse for later
high flint
and here we are again you are cherrypicking what i said
i said its to get something rolling before understanding why it does what it does
the logic behind it
im not saying its perfect and 100%
short radish
yes youre coming from an angle of "something is better than nothing"
but the something is a very dangerous crutch
short radish
also especially in keys
it should be 100% not recommended
raid maybe its fine
because its less chaotic
this tier bosses are mostly ST anyway
plush roost
Hekili will make you say things like signet >= house of cards
short radish
but what i know about hekili, is it'll start breaking down in aoe
plush roost
Because you lack the understanding of the spec and its strengths
short radish
then again i've never used it and i'm only parrotting what i've seen and heard about hekili
but everyone smarter than me says it
so must be right
¯_(ツ)_/¯
plush roost
Oh please personal attacks its a lighthearted joke you
Hekili is fine for beginners but best to get off it fast agreed
high flint
Hekili is fine for beginners but best to get off it fast agreed
thats exactly what i said
plush roost
Agre d
high flint
and apparently everyone takes exception to it
like @short radish
by no means is it meant to crutch someone and get them through 100% of content
but beginners askign questions its a starting point
short radish
the starting point should be the guides which have a lot of time and effort being put into them
high flint
people coming in asking "how do i start doing maths?" and a decent chunk of this place would porbabyl say "do a maths dissertation!" instead of learning your multiplication tables
short radish
not some tool thats potentially out of date
???
okay
how does hekili help you learn a class
when you are blindly copying
to your example it's like saying "just copy this guys answer"
high flint
i said to follow it for a bit to get the flow
plush roost
Depends tbh, some people just need to get a feel for a class to decide if they wanna stick to it and hekili is good for that. If you like it read an actual guide ofc.
short radish
!guide
high flint
and then find out why it does the things it does
lucid jackal
short radish
fuu has made an excellent outline for every single global in your burst for sub
on why you press each button
lilac stag
assa is very scripted. Sub is not
short radish
the wowhead guide does that as well
lilac stag
In the sense of procs
short radish
and it also gives the explanations behind it
plush roost
I mean i threw on hekili when i made my dh just to see if I'd like it, decided i did, and looked up how to play properly
Nothing wrong with that
high flint
I mean i threw on hekili when i made my dh just to see if I'd like it, decided i...
thats the general intended purpose id imagine
plush roost
Like DH isn't very nuanced as a class so its easier to use as an example but i think people learn in a variety of different ways and hekili is very useful for people who learn by doing
Assuming you aren't stopping there then no harm no foul imo
If you are and want to improve you're stunting yourself
short radish
yeah but youre someone that knows how to move past hekili
if someones coming in that has no idea where to go for any information
chances are theyre just going to install hekili and stop there
high flint
think ur selling people short there with that assumption
if theyr going to the trouble of asking for advice they likely will see it through
short radish
no offence, but the people who rely on hekili long term for how to play a spec
i dont have high hopes for them
plush roost
Tbh people who stop at hekili won't obtain much info from a guide anyway. They're not playing wow to parse or perform high.
short radish
and again
depends on the enviroemnt
if its raid
hekili will acutally perform decently
i think you can get blue parse with it
if not purple
but raids a much different enviroment
plush roost
Ye pmuch.
high flint
it doesnt do well with dynamic rotations and with many things to consider
but assassination probabyl works ok-ish
All this talk now does make me wonder if an AI played the game how would it do
Like would it get to 3k mythic rating and clear mythic raiding 😂
high flint
i think honestly that would be a hilarious stream idea
high flint
like how the people do the pokemon streams
ai on subtlety would be insanely hardmode 🤣
short radish
depends on the AI and what it's allowed to see from blizzard
tribal blade
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
i think sub is more scripted than people think
and the AI would also be able to calculate better usage of CDs
dry cave
i feel like with the vast quantities of log data it probably wouldnt be out of the picture to create an AI like that
short radish
when to fit in dances and what not
dry cave
might be good to have people labeling whether a rotation is good or bad or giving it a numerical goodness vlue
considering that wow rotations can be considered a string and can be generated the same way that LLMs create strings to respond to queries
short radish
yeah honestly
wow is not a hard game
fights are largly scripted in wow
mobas like dota
dusk comet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI_Five
i have a RWF idea
dry cave
i would not say random but less deterministic
you can get random procs in wow sure but what to do when that occurs may also be scripted for some specs
short radish
are they truly random though?
most procs are rppm
so you get it eventually
take sht as well
it's 50% on 3
dusk comet
it also has a GCD to decide to use that proc
short radish
and 100% on 4
dry cave
they are random to the agent performing actions that are based on the procs
high flint
I was gonna assume something like a ret pally doing the ai challenge would be hilarious to watch
Is there any other class that’s easier than ret?
dusk comet
BM hunter maybe
lucid jackal
chilly patio
patent umbra
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
summer badge
Looking for more indepth info on sub in raid
hybrid prism
do you guys use tempered versatility or alchemical chaos? Seeing contradicting opinions in guides. I have always used the vers one
because you seem to get more out of your potion but now i am doubting
lucid jackal
Looking for more indepth info on sub in raid
do the rotation
summer badge
Noob question, what am i missing
hybrid prism
just play you'll get the hang of it
it seems hard but once you get the idea it's muscle memory. There isn't a guide you can read and then play well. Just gotta practice and it'll all make sense
well there is a guide but practice helps the most
summer badge
Ive been grindin since this xpac, just seems at times im lacking either st or mt fight
Scant is my rogue 7/8 heroic
lucid jackal
Noob question, what am i missing
Probably the entire spec
summer badge
Was looking for legit info not 3rd world shit country broke ass comments
short radish
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
short radish
bro i'm trying to help you
you cant just come in and say "help what am i doing wrong"
how we supposed to know
dry cave
LOL
summer badge
Get Fucked Trump won dumb fuckin shits
short radish
hybrid prism
yikes lol
lucid jackal
!mute @summer badge you seem like a stupid troll
hybrid prism
he also got a well written out answer and then flamed out so hard, so fast
kind bluff
I'm confused as to what this guy wants to know. He didn't ask any actual questions that were answerable other than read the guide.
short radish
tribal blade
huh
short radish
hybrid prism
lmao wtf
bleak night
tribal blade
i have literally never seen a single instance of racism in here that didn't go unpunished
lilac stag
you cant just come in and say "help what am i doing wrong"
This seems to be getting worse and worse of late
short radish
is it?
lilac stag
Yes
short radish
always feels like they come and go
bleak night
help what am i doing wrong
lilac stag
@tribal blade 669 missing helm on mythic track. Almost done 
lilac stag
help what am i doing wrong
playing 
and or 
short radish
true
bleak night
playing <:sub:433007835606155265> and or <:rogue:433007865511411722>
jokes on you im playing boomkin for stix prog
actually no jokes still on me
bleak night
i was even trying to help him
join discord
say troll shit and get muted
call discord racist
hybrid prism
vernal junco
https://tenor.com/view/moonkin-dance-starfall-dancing-moonkin-gif-20256106
i set my starfall to f so this is like ffffffffffffffff to me
left ledge
vernal junco
or they just remembered not to
lucid jackal
I'm confused as to what this guy wants to know. He didn't ask any actual questio...
A guy with an elon musk profile picture is a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, racist, troglodyte? I'm shocked honestly
wild vine
A guy with an elon musk profile picture is a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, ...
I never heard troglodyte before
short radish
I never heard troglodyte before
what about trogdor
wild vine
what about trogdor
Arent those some weird dragons?
short radish
weird dragons?
short radish
that is Trogdor the Burninator to you
wild vine
that is Trogdor the Burninator to you
wild vine
https://tenor.com/view/persona-4-marie-gif-17208686563723060964
I wouldve known hermit tbf. 
lucid jackal
probs cuz they have more gear than u
Only specs that outburst sub are like what, WW, MM, Dev
fringe palm
Warlock might beat us aswell now 
rocky ocean
a burst spec that gets outburst by like half other specs
bitter cliff
Mm a question should I pick myth track shoulders (tier piece) or eye of kezan (heroic)? Currently have the pvp trinket and suspicious energy drink (champion track).
Eye of kezan is better for longer fights as far as I understand
dry plank
Mm dev and ww outside of burst does not do poop damage
vale osprey
a burst spec that gets outburst by like half other specs
What timeframe are you talking in? If you're talking in opener/situations like Rik barrels then I'm gonna need a log because no one's getting close to me in those burst situations
rocky ocean
hc gally and talking about like first 20 seconds of fight
vale osprey
Then no shot you should be being overtaken I think
Unless like someone said above there's a gear disparity
vale pine
good morning, what are we yapping about today?
keen dome
Posion toggle?
rocky ocean
good morning, what are we yapping about today?
buffs when
vernal junco
about yapping
vale pine
buffs when
we have a raid buff, thats best we can do ^^
rocky ocean
I get bullied by turkeys both in keys and raid
wild vine
we have a raid buff, thats best we can do ^^
Look at the bigger picture
We need MORE
And smokebomb def CD
keen dome
smokebomb LoS def CD yes
keen dome
I'm happy we know we are getting dinars
rocky ocean
dinars could be late, the wording was not very reassuring
vernal junco
like flag gives sod, sb gives sd that kind of qol changes
vernal junco
It's not like the old days where killing more bosses meant more loot. Now it's just a “here’s some gear every week, take it or leave it” kind of system. I honestly don’t get why they’re still being so stingy with the dinar.
fair anchor
Game is asking me to chose between sub and assa, hc HoC and myth priory signet in vault
keen dome
I personally think a deterministic chocie every month would be fine since you'd still need to upgade it. Yes people would have their BiS trinket in a month but is that actually a bad thing?
keen dome
Game is asking me to chose between sub and assa, hc HoC and myth priory signet i...
Do you have a normal HoC / pvp trinket?
'Cos I'd take the myth priory, and then get the hoC via dinar eventually if I had a normal one
wild vine
dinars could be late, the wording was not very reassuring
Could be either "you will know after the Patch drops because they are in there" or "you will get them even later"
fair anchor
I have pvp trinket yeah
fair anchor
'Cos I'd take the myth priory, and then get the hoC via dinar eventually if I ha...
True but when is that ? Might be 1 month before next season
But yeah passing on myth signet seems crazy
keen dome
It's in 11.1.5, so it's sooner than that. But you can't get a Myth priory anywhere else and you can get a HoC, so.
It's not a fun choice, though!
turbid saddle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
Game is asking me to chose between sub and assa, hc HoC and myth priory signet i...
isnt heroic hoc still better for assi anyway
priory is kinda whatever for what it seems
bleak night
no, myth track priory is significantly better than heroic hoc for sin
solid lotus
i know 'sim yourself'but whats the over under +/- for having ascension embells so i can run same gear for ass?
its quite small right
keen dome
Yeah, very small
hollow spear
Ring maybe?
alpine wraith
i catalized cloak the other week too
hollow spear
My new challenge is to pick items that don't int both sin and sub
The 90s cooldown really annoys me lately
Constantly have to wait for pulls because we wipe a couple of seconds into my flag
alpine wraith
i have a funny situation with pacemaker
i find kinda silly that drink and pacemaker is so little behind hoc+drink
also seems to change to cursed mastery instead of normal mastery with pacemaker guess because of extra crit
but also baseline 1 cursed is better too hm
vestal escarp
making my raidbots work double shift cause this vault is so ass
dry plank
no, myth track priory is significantly better than heroic hoc for sin
myth HoC still better right?
wet lava
, I love sub but it feels so shit doing no dam without cds and then having cds up and still get out damaged by trueshot by mm hunter
Has sub ever been the meta rogue spec? Feel like it's hard to buff because it will become too oppressive in pvp
short radish
, I love sub but it feels so shit doing no dam without cds and then having cds u...
yeah but mm hunter does even less damage than sub outside of cds
wild vine
myth HoC still better right?
No
wet lava
Im talking m+
wild vine
Has sub ever been the meta rogue spec? Feel like it's hard to buff because it wi...
Yes
Not often but sometimes
Until nerfs
short radish
Yes
okay grandpa, bfa was 7 years ago
i think sub was meta in raid for abberus as well
and defs on smoldy
warm wagon
In SL too no?
short radish
hmmm
alpine wraith
sub was fine in s2 of sl
alpine wraith
but all rogue specs were fine
short radish
and in s3 you had 2 weeks to be good
feels like this every season 
wild vine
okay grandpa, bfa was 7 years ago
Ngl I was thinking even further back, but also more recently
alpine wraith
i still remember some hard times from cata and mop even
alpine wraith
it is mostly because items from last raid are good
then we craft weapon and are decent
then everyone else gets gear
alpine wraith
i can at least get a mythic one in vault now
short radish
dinners also coming soon ™️
short radish
samesies
wild vine
short radish
i hate that its only strong after 5 minutes
but you know what blizzard
IM REALLY HAPPY
WE HAVE A TRINKET
WHERE YOU JUST PRESS AND GET STAT
INSTEAD OF PLAYING A MINI GAME
PLEASE NOTE THIS FOR FUTURE
wild vine
Next 1 min 30 trinket you have to solve a captcha
Fucking based
short radish
wild vine
I would be amused
alpine wraith
in spanish
wild vine
And insanely pissed
short radish
in spanish
leaden prairie
<:Angry:1016790248186986517>
Select all pictures that include zalatah feets
wild vine
in spanish
Chinese for eu/na and german for china
leaden prairie
Or whatever her name is
alpine wraith
russian for china
short radish
xalatoes
short radish
leaden prairie
actually a captcha would be so on brand for a wow trinket cause then it would have a rng chance to fail and you have to retry
that very much would feel like a wow trinket banger
wild vine
actually a captcha would be so on brand for a wow trinket cause then it would ha...
For outlaw you have to solve it during KS
They could actually just make it one of those delve puzzles
wet lava
I think my least fave thing about sub is holding up to 2 dances for when ur blades and flag is coming up It just feels like ass but that cold blood secret tech makes it worth
wild vine
So basically what the spec is about, because thats the only CD management part thats left
sly cove
Blizzards so scared to make sub good i swear, assass is so boring the rogue life is tough going :L
grave delta
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
versed hazel
damage from a 12% sprocket wipe, really put things into perspective
surely sub gets some last minute changes right 
alpine wraith
who knows
short radish
surely sub gets some last minute changes right <:COPIUM:928012348424347720>
my guy it's past the 11th hour
its the whole next day
versed hazel
short radish
oh well
at least this means
we wont get another nerf w-1
for next tier
#pma
timber frigate
does weaponmaster sub talent proc unseen blade ?
acoustic dust
Guys this probably gets asked alot but how do you use the stix magnet trinket? Do you just send no matter the stacks and just make sure it doesnt fuck over HoC coming up ?
alpine wraith
you can play around it if you want to delay it for diff phases or aoe
or just use it 20 secs after flag
native zodiac
we wont get another nerf w-1
We get buffed again to be good at the end of this tier > we are good week 1 > get nerfed
Cycle continues
acoustic dust
@alpine wraith I see, thanks
cosmic fossil
Hey, im really confused what's the 2nd BiS trinket with HOC i took EOK and felt rigged my Champion Sus Drink feels better !!
final holly
spoilered for gore:
||https://i.imgur.com/jTVjteZ.png||
both myth slots have heavy h*ste
hollow spear
well
vestal escarp
i see a bis sin neck
hollow spear
time to switch to sin
vestal escarp
easiest vault of today
hollow spear
the universe showed you the way
final holly
I already have a crafted neck so I'd probably not take the neck either way
final holly
the ring and just use it for m+ on sin I guess
zenith prism
time to switch to unholy tbh
warm wagon
Is it worth picking HoC when we may have dinars in a few week (I have kiveza heroic trinket)?
Or better take torso or shoulder mythic track (also fun that I got the BIS non set torso for both assa and law)
warm wagon
interesting, didn't think of this option
summer mica
tbf they said we will get "information" about the dinar implementation in a few weeks, not the dinars itself
warm wagon
true
summer mica
no1 knows what the f they r cooking
void ocean
so we can forget about dinars on 22nd/23rd?
warm wagon
I was thinking long term with torso, sim says torso is about 0.8% upgrade and HoC 1% (about equal)
summer mica
if they r coming that late into the season its kinda whatever actualy
final holly
actually blizz knows
unsure that's true honestly
considering they were added to renown path then removed arbitrarily it seems they have some kind of internal conflict on when they should arrive
alpine wraith
they are likely tracking engagement metrics to drop it when they go lower than expected
void ocean
considering they were added to renown path then removed arbitrarily it seems the...
could be poorly done git merge 😂
upper narwhal
actually don't know what to pick even tho i simmed, too much choice
makes up for socket last week
short radish
so we can forget about dinars on 22nd/23rd?
thats even more compium than sub buffs
remote kayak
Is it worth picking HoC when we may have dinars in a few week (I have kiveza her...
can we get HoC mithic? on vault
alpine wraith
yes but you need to kill mythic bandit
keen dome
Every time I think I've done good boss damage on Heroic, I upload my logs and go "god damn it"
People need to be less good at sub
keen dome
We did 7/8H today which was nice. Mug'zee in 3 pulls, pretty proud of leading that.
lilac stag
nice
keen dome
Gallywix, sadly, did not die because I was struck with the most horrible problem: hungry
Had a really lovely DH just start co-leading with really good suggestions and stuff. Was nice to see, people undervalue how useful having someone else helping out can be in pugs.
tidal marsh
Damn, look at Jyri go
waxen spire
hey uh did i do the opener right guys
hazy breach
No
short radish
People need to be less good at sub
us 9 sub rogues remaining are good at the spec
keen dome
us 9 sub rogues remaining are good at the spec
I'm proud to say I'm the 9th best Sub rogue in the world (out of 9)
short radish
top 10 lets goooooooo
sacred yarrow
i main rogue so well no one ever sees me
leaden plover
hey uh did i do the opener right guys
10/10
void ocean
I'm proud to say I'm the 9th best Sub rogue in the world (out of 9)
u suggesting im 8th in the world...
quasi wedge
guys i came up with automatic backstab
sacred yarrow
short radish
guys i came up with automatic backstab
brother what
keen dome
I admire the effort but I don't understand
sacred yarrow
he did say its "covoluted"
gotta read 3 more times
(no disrespect, I am reading it again)
quasi wedge
it do be working
void ocean
any tl;dr
keen dome
I think their presentation of it is top notch. It's well put together and organized. I like how the information flows. I just don't understand the use of it.
leaden prairie
if you spam the button while on gcd it will just go back to your other bar
idk how that would even work
quasi wedge
but yeah like i said not be worth it for most
sacred yarrow
but yeah like i said not be worth it for most
Who would primarily benefit from a change like this?
quasi wedge
if you spam the button while on gcd it will just go back to your other bar
i thought so but it works
quasi wedge
Who would primarily benefit from a change like this?
someone giga lazy in combat and the opposite in dornogal chilling
sacred yarrow
so from veteran fully equipped to max mythic?
quasi wedge
i don't think mythic raiders are lazy enough
tribal blade
guys i came up with automatic backstab
that is a lot of info over our 1 button that does 0 damage
but i appreciate the hustle
twilit phoenix
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
twilit phoenix
What’s wrong with this one
swift tinsel
not covoluted enough
thick cedar
Is running 106% Mast a bad idea?
random mason
hey uh did i do the opener right guys
why is payphone playing in the end
quasi wedge
for me it seems like it always work bc i usually dance stab at the end of or after gcd
random mason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHTsaJRai24
me swapping between assa and outlaw
lilac stag
What’s wrong with this one
Assa doesn’t have backstab or shadowdance 🧠
vale pine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHTsaJRai24
a true classic
solemn lance
Is the reason for seperating it into 2 presses so that you don't accidently backstab after hitting dance if you have full combo points already
!SoD
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
solemn lance
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
alpine wraith
no it is because you cant use shadowdance and another action in 1 press anymore
so you have to use it 2 times
twilit phoenix
Spending a rotten stack on BS 
lilac stag
no it is because you cant use shadowdance and another action in 1 press anymore
I’m pretty sure you can actually use BS with one press. It’s strike and the swap that fucks up.
solemn lance
Spending a rotten stack on BS <a:LETSGOO:966129852946198659>
haah yeh i realized this with a bad order on me
when looking at some top logs this am
so I should have that addressed
alpine wraith
yea only strike+dance have that problem then
alpine wraith
Spending a rotten stack on BS <a:LETSGOO:966129852946198659>
we play finality now no issues there!
and it was at worst neutral anyway kinda
twilit phoenix
we play finality now no issues there!
Dropping both rotten points in ST?
twilit phoenix
Oh shit pepega
alpine wraith
for st tho
hazy breach
Even if you have rotten its fine to dance+symbols > backstab
alpine wraith
for m+ rotten still better
solemn lance
hitting a dummy is terrible without the shaman buff isnt it, seems like my CD timings are janky
twilit phoenix
Do we still run sectech in ST?
alpine wraith
yea sec tech is big st
twilit phoenix
alpine wraith
you always run it anyway
solemn lance
chenge sechtech for banana fingers, thats what i do
alpine wraith
maybe you need to do a 5 stack PV goremaw rotten crit with 11 DM stacks
to feel the weight of your decisions
twilit phoenix
Feel the weight of this 
alpine wraith
outer hamlet
Is offhand dagger basically useless like sin or does it give more value as sub
twilit phoenix
Is offhand dagger basically useless like sin or does it give more value as sub
same as sin and ol
OH is just a stat stick
but it gives less stats than most other gear pieces
hollow spear
the current bis weapon option is to swap from two daggers to staff
by playing windwalker
twilit phoenix
2h sub would go crazy
hollow spear
bonk from the shadows
I dig it
did they actually buff ww by like 2,5% again? saw it in a picture coming from wowhead earlier
twilit phoenix
yeah blizz tuning team is high on poppers digging each other's butts
not sure who makes the decisions
hazy breach
did they actually buff ww by like 2,5% again? saw it in a picture coming from wo...
The hero talent you dont play yes
uncut oriole
did they actually buff ww by like 2,5% again? saw it in a picture coming from wo...
They buffed the shado-pan hero talent. Basically a non-buff in raid as celestial is still better
hazy breach
So yes, but not really
hollow spear
weird that they would show that as a buff in their overview
maybe I didn't see the spec thingy underneath
lucid jackal
"I wonder how many of these buffs are not even buffs"
uncut oriole
maybe I didn't see the spec thingy underneath
You didn't see it because they didn't put it, so not your fault.
hollow spear
Yeah, thought I was tripping
Pretty misleading
Especially considering that they put it for some classes, and not for others
leaden prairie
Especially considering that they put it for some classes, and not for others
wowhead
alpine wraith
yes
paper iron
so
alpine wraith
we just talked about that yday
twilit phoenix
bro was pressing sectech while boss was in the middle 
paper iron
i cant press cds on pull cuz my 2nd sectech will probably be during this phase
very fun
twilit phoenix
noob
alpine wraith
like if you were in raid combat kinda
pre sod from last pull then go in strike flag dance sec tech etc
many ways
basically you need to get 5 secs cdr from somewhere
serene notch
Is anyone aware of a YouTuber or streamer for sub rouge PvE , someone who talks through what they are doing in the same vein as criticake for fury warrior ideally?
hollow spear
Not sure if there's a really active sub streamer
jolly pasture
!wa
wicked joltBOT
slate lantern
Is anyone aware of a YouTuber or streamer for sub rouge PvE , someone who talks ...
hachadino is gud
serene notch
I don’t see a bunch of wow stuff on their YouTube unless I found the wrong one
lilac stag
does my sectech dont hit when he s middle or what
Oh. Haha I thought you were here for that conversation. 
false alarm sarcasm meter
paper iron
nah i wasnt
i m an assa guy now
but rookery last boss as assa sounds like a scam. Probably a assa > sub swap angle after 2nd boss
assa prio target so good early in the dungeon
steel horizon
Is anyone aware of a YouTuber or streamer for sub rouge PvE , someone who talks ...
shindigg is your best bet
serene notch
Kinda along this thought, does anyone do coaching? I am pretty casual, wouldn’t mind paying for someone’s time to more directly talk me through what I’m doing wrong.
alpine wraith
I don’t see a bunch of wow stuff on their YouTube unless I found the wrong one
check the sheet in my profile
wow guides come and then there is nothing more to say
lilac stag
Kinda along this thought, does anyone do coaching? I am pretty casual, wouldn’t ...
Learn the flag cds and that’s really about it. The rest is just time and miles playing the content and realizing when to send or hold.
tropic pier
So when are they buffing subtlety, it seems to be pretty bad now.
nocturne shale
jaunty umbra
vagrant thorn
ok when you sim your character in quick sim and you scroll down to the casting timeline... how does the bot determine what to cast? is it just 100% hard coded rules "when you have this many stacks, use this skill"?
"when tehre's 3 secs left, refresh this dot"? -,-
lucid jackal
Yes it uses an APL to make decisions
vagrant thorn
but then how do we know that the author of the APL made the rules optimal? ;O
digital aspen
lucid jackal
Through trial and error
vagrant thorn
Yes it uses an APL to make decisions
it makes more sense to me to use all this compute to actually find out the optimal rotation through many iterations, but I guess that's not feasible for wahtever reason
lucid jackal
what do you mean
alpine wraith
before making apl changes we do go through empyrical testing usually
most ideas also make sense
but also sometimes bugs are silly
twilit phoenix
Rogue unironically probably has the most thorough APL
solemn carbon
!ui
vagrant thorn
as with any machine learning give it the goal to maximize dps and then it learns the rotation on its own to produce the biggest number
solemn carbon
RIP
vagrant thorn
theres just so much complexity it makes more sense to throw compute at it rather than try to hand craft it :p
lucid jackal
I don't think AI tools are sophisticated enough to actually interpret data and information like this
to "maximize a DPS rotation in world of warcraft"
alpine wraith
it is possible
vagrant thorn
How will it learn the rotation?
through spamming random abilities over a period of time and then seeing which combo produces the biggest dps in the end
alpine wraith
but would need a different enterprise tool than just simcraft
warm depot
is there a reason why we dont evis first before flag in opener now
alpine wraith
it is kinda neutral to send fast
twilit phoenix
is there a reason why we dont evis first before flag in opener now
You get snd fast in your opener
alpine wraith
so you just do that
warm depot
word
alpine wraith
and now use vanish after cds
twilit phoenix
Better to just get cds rolling
warm depot
makes sense
alpine wraith
or can save it
small helm
Anyone playing sub these days? Lol
lucid jackal
me 
vagrant thorn
and checking the guide and then comparing the actual cast order in a sim reveals different priorities :p so who knows whats really the best
warm depot
yeah depends on fight i guess if i wanna delay a bit or send early
small helm
Does it still have the funnel niche it used to?
warm depot
ok cool thx
lucid jackal
Not really
lucid jackal
and checking the guide and then comparing the actual cast order in a sim reveals...
if u wanna setup an AI To do this go ahead
strange chasm
swapped to arcane mage until they buff sub again
does pretty similar to what sub does
small helm
Do you find a lot of people swapping between sin and outlaw depending on raid fights?
alpine wraith
yea like i told you it can be done but we wont
maybe someone somewhere can spin a botnet for it
lucid jackal
All 3 rogue specs are basically the same
Just play whatever one u want
except mythic mugzee
play sin its the best spec in the game
small helm
Sin is my fave
alpine wraith
i will donate some workload from one of my h100 if you make the workload
lucid jackal
then play sin
hybrid prism
Play sub always because it’s the coolest spec in the game
Anything else is inferior
mighty citrus
!WA
mighty citrus
😄
void hound
i will NOT play assa on mug zee
twilit phoenix
i will NOT be playing the best spec on mug zee
bleak night
i will NOT be playing the best spec on mug zee
twilit phoenix
i will NOT be playing the best spec on mug zee
Hey So basically I'm just gonna not gonna play sin on mugzee I Know..... UGH I know... It's just that I'm not gonna play it it is all HAHAHAHAHRHAHAHA HARAHARHARH.
bleak night
twilit phoenix
<a:FeelsWeirdManS:585739279456665607>
it's an old pasta
hardy jetty
I have a question if I may, im playing assa rogue and have already crafted a weapon (Everforged Stabber) feet and back, will i be able to craft another weapon ? aka Siphoning Stiletto
hazy breach
With another spark yes
But you should never craft siphoning stiletto
Its not good
Droptimizer says its good because it doesnt understand the 2 embellishment caps
hardy jetty
ooh
cuz im stuck with vault not sure what to do
this is my simc
not sure where to head next
solar geode
warm marlin
fighting M gallywix with my pvp badge 
fierce roost
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
void ocean
fighting M gallywix with my pvp badge <:EZ:690622270955323472>
I feel I will be using it till Midnight exp
vale pine
nice, gz ?
modest river
I feel I will be using it till Midnight exp
dont even get me started, im last in prio for HoC
void ocean
Lol that thingy
Havent played s1, otherwise that would be another trinket I dont have 🤣
vestal escarp
remember the times
when all three specs were closest
and everyone was happy
so happy together
void ocean
Me neither
muted birch
Havent played s1, otherwise that would be another trinket I dont have 🤣
played s1
I saw it drop 2 times
it was always the ranged wpn
left flame
Is there even a rogue dev anymore
twilit phoenix
Is there even a rogue dev anymore
nope
rogue dev is raiding scarlet enclave on SOD
proven plover
What class is he playin
bleak night
Shaman prob
woeful smelt
Sub 2 or 4 set?
twilit phoenix
Sub 2 or 4 set?
what do you mean by this king
woeful smelt
Wrong channel oops
twilit phoenix
https://tenor.com/view/severance-mark-s-gif-12484533603517447045
fire show -- halfway through s2 rn
i want to marry helly and have children with her
lucid jackal
- elon musk
sly shore
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
cloud rover
Thats an hour loot council session
twilit phoenix
bro had to call his attorney for this one
slate lantern
whats the roulette stats tho
round latch
completely normal,nothing to see here
keep scrolling
😂
i swear this game is fried
honest brook
guys should i go farm transmiter
twilit phoenix
guys should i go farm transmiter
Pvp trinket is the move bro
plush roost
Thats an hour loot council session
Look at our oab a couple weeks ago
hybrid prism
u need?
sinful marten
is there any point playing sub still or does assa just beat it every boss
dusty totem
Sub is still very good on rik
alpine wraith
sub is good everywhere just dont use details or wclogs
and if anyone links to them
just say you are legally blind
haughty mural
patent crystal
just reset details every 1min 30sec
paper iron
be a gigachad and only use a death and heal window in details