subtlety

[gritty knot]

I mean Hunter doing 24 Million burst on 4 targets first boss in ToP because of T-set, sure. Sub rogue Tier Set surely deserved that nerf even tho there werent any live season numbers yet....

[left ledge]

I really don’t know why that shit got added esp as a capstone

[paper iron]

imma be hope dude

[clever delta]

its there

[paper iron]

they ll release some rogue lines soon

[clever delta]

cos they have no new ideas

and they needed to fill empty space

[lucid jackal]

Wasn't sub tier like 25% dps or something nonsense

[alpine wraith]

yes because baseline was very bad

[lilac stag]

You know it’s coming.

[sour forum]

it was a bit more iirc, but u had that degen keep 10 stacks rupture only moment

[alpine wraith]

same as in df

[lucid jackal]

It was more?

[alpine wraith]

it was 20% better than s1 one

so around 3x

[lucid jackal]

And u guys still complain it got adjusted??

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/snow-jon-snow-game-of-thrones-kit-harrington-winter-is-coming-gif-15343176

[alpine wraith]

fire mage set is better

anyway

and they buffed them kekw

[lucid jackal]

Is it rn?

[alpine wraith]

then nerfed it by like 3%

[lucid jackal]

How much dps is fire tier set

[sour forum]

doesnt matter if its 25% if your base spec is dumpster fire

[alpine wraith]

what they didnt want was the big burst

but does not matter anyway

[lucid jackal]

Was sub dumpster fire on launch..?

[alpine wraith]

they buffed baseline a lot

[lucid jackal]

Yeah

That was the entire point of the Tier Nerf

[alpine wraith]

but that helped jackshit

[lucid jackal]

To compress how strong the Tier was

[alpine wraith]

because now we have no identity again

[slate marlin]

Em

wtf blizzard?

[alpine wraith]

they could have buffed finishers or other things

[gritty knot]

Exactly.

[lucid jackal]

Wdym no identity

[alpine wraith]

decided to buff crit dmg on builders and just slap % inc aura

[paper iron]

biggest deal is that it s been 2 tuning patches of buffs without rogue mentionned (other than assa 5% st when it was the worst st in the game).

[alpine wraith]

job here is done

[lucid jackal]

Sub is still the burst spec wdym

[paper iron]

so might fall behind

[alpine wraith]

yea it burst harder than tanks for sure

[lucid jackal]

"rogue is ignored except the times it wasn't"

[paper iron]

sub is the best 10s burst in the game

[lucid jackal]

What are u talking about LOL

[alpine wraith]

but worse than MM devastation WW arcane and i uhdk

[lucid jackal]

Sub is still one of the highest burst specs in the game

[alpine wraith]

and others

top 10 burst for sure

[sour forum]

top 10 burst

[paper iron]

MM / devoker / arcane (after buff even more) are ahead

[alpine wraith]

the thing is we get to at most 8m dps

[paper iron]

but if we cut at 10s, sub is probably better

[alpine wraith]

when the second sec tech hits

[sour forum]

i have a hard time against WW aswell 🤣

[shut ridge]

we are truly the red-headed stepchild class of wow

[alpine wraith]

they do 7m for 30 secs

[shut ridge]

[alpine wraith]

??¿¿

[sand monolith]

I just wanted Cold Blood to be 40s so I can hit it twice for every flag window. I'm rioting

[clever delta]

problem with sub burst is

[lucid jackal]

Sub is like top 5 highest burst specs in the game still

[alpine wraith]

then we do 200k outside cds

they do like 800k

[clever delta]

that after this isnane 16s burts you return to do no dmg

[alpine wraith]

yea but top 5 at what cost

[left ledge]

It got adjusted with no baseline buffs

[lucid jackal]

..?

It got buffed at baseline

[alpine wraith]

they nerfed tier and sec tech again

after the changes

[left ledge]

The baseline buffs were nerfs

But ok

[clever delta]

it get adjusted, they nerfed sectech by 5% or smg like that 😄

[alpine wraith]

they ended up at around 1.5% total but still

the dmg imbalance was bad

now we crit shadowstrike for almost 1.5m

[slate marlin]

My issue is that sub is in a meh at most state and they ignore it

[alpine wraith]

wohoo

[slate marlin]

Assa is good

[left ledge]

Also what’s even wrong with tier being really strong

[slate marlin]

and outlaw got bugfix nerfed with 0 compensation

[left ledge]

I don’t get this argument

Oh no our tier is 25%

How terrible

It’s never happened before!

[lucid jackal]

So did the specs baseline get buffed

Or not

[alpine wraith]

oh and they also nerfed transmitter twice

no it was a nerf

after everything

[left ledge]

Not really we got nerfed

[lucid jackal]

Are you reading the words im typing or

[hazy breach]

It was more like 33%. The first adjustment made perfect sense

[lucid jackal]

When they NERFED the tier set

did they BUFF the spec at a baseline

Yes or no

NOT OVERALL NUMERICAL VALUE

When they NERFED the tier set, was the spec buffed

simple yes or no

[left ledge]

No because they also NERFED the baseline

[hazy breach]

Its the second one thats sus because the just nerfed us

[left ledge]

LMAO

[alpine wraith]

yea but i the wrong places

[sour forum]

they buffed it baseline, then nerfed it

[slate marlin]

they buffed baseline spec. But overall it was a nerf

[lucid jackal]

Im not asking about the overall

[acoustic lodge]

oh shoot were talking about the balance again

[lucid jackal]

Notice how I'm using very specific language

[alpine wraith]

it does not matter if you buff builders crit dmg and everything

[lucid jackal]

U dont need to read into what I'm saying

[alpine wraith]

if you dont buff finishers

[left ledge]

Why are you trying to cherry pick

[alpine wraith]

sub will be dumpster

[left ledge]

I don’t get it

Are you bored

[lucid jackal]

I'm not trying to cherry pick

[left ledge]

You are

[lucid jackal]

I'm being very specific in my language while you guys are inventing shit to get mad about

[slate marlin]

Neither am i, spec strengh was nerfed, period

[acoustic lodge]

He's passionate

[left ledge]

They buffed and nerfed the baseline

[alpine wraith]

that is why sub is underperforming everywhere because even on st it is whatever

[left ledge]

What’s so hard to understand

[alpine wraith]

and if finishers are ass

[left ledge]

I don’t get it

[alpine wraith]

the spec is bad

[slate marlin]

This

spec is bad atm

[left ledge]

The spec can clear mythic

[sour forum]

guy never agrees with subs, he hates subs since amirdrasill 🤣

[hazy breach]

They made the tier set 8 stacks instead of 10 and nerfed sectech by 5%, without any compensation

[left ledge]

It’s just an underperformer

[alpine wraith]

you wont have a good sub spec if you buff builders again and again and again

[lucid jackal]

Ive played only sub for 2 tiers straight

[alpine wraith]

and random hero talent damage

[slate marlin]

Idk what guy is talking about

if they buff base

[left ledge]

Ok but why are you trying to be specific

[slate marlin]

and nerf tier

[left ledge]

And cherry pick about buffs

[slate marlin]

and overall is anerf

then the spec got nerfez

[left ledge]

When I mentioned multiple times we got nerfed

[alpine wraith]

and then nerf again

[slate marlin]

period

[alpine wraith]

and again

[left ledge]

I was answering your question and you chose to ignore it

[alpine wraith]

set got nerfed three times

[slate marlin]

"but they buffed base" so what

[left ledge]

They nerfed base

[hazy breach]

Tfw they buff all the specs under you and some thats above you on the overall damage statistics

[acoustic lodge]

I think guy is telling us to reroll

[alpine wraith]

the baseline buff didnt hit the right places

[gritty knot]

Idc about anything rn I just wanna say fk Blizz. Fk those lazy ass devs, especially rogue devs. And I am allowed to say that since I have nearly 1k days playtime on my rogue after 20 years. Good night everyone

[left ledge]

That’s the thing

[rugged moon]

Just go assa guys, very fun spec

[slate marlin]

if they buff mutilate dmg by 10% and nerf envenom by 80%, u cant cherry pick on mutilate getting buffed

[alpine wraith]

big execute assa guys

[slate marlin]

which is what guy is doing

[alpine wraith]

our problem is also

[lucid jackal]

Idk what to even say

[alpine wraith]

they buffed builder crit dmg

what does that even help with

[paper iron]

that s what i m scare about, it s been 2 tuning patches. Anyway i learnt frost mage for no reason, i m going back to arcane

[alpine wraith]

oh and wait for ds buffs again

HUNT THEM DOWN

[left ledge]

I’m just confused as to if you’re trolling or not, guy

I’m not mad or anything I just don’t get what you’re confused about

[alpine wraith]

he is just saying tier set was overtuned and it is try

before it got nerfed 3 times

[sour forum]

its the 2nd tier i had to swap to assa after a few weeks cuz it just performs better

[alpine wraith]

and baseline things didnt do anything good

[dusty totem]

Guy has not given any opinion yet so how could he be trolling

[left ledge]

Yes the majority agree it was initially overtuned

[sour forum]

all that vers mastery gear in the dumpster

[left ledge]

But they nerfed it and gave us nothing

[lilac stag]

Why would you reroll while assa is one of the strongest specs in raid and m+

[jovial cipher]

Where buff

[alpine wraith]

evis is so weak you ignore it

[acoustic lodge]

I was just kidding

[clever delta]

yeah pattern is clearn

[alpine wraith]

zaross does like bp

[lilac stag]

Eventually BP will get another 40% buff

[slate marlin]

they nerfed tier, secret technique, transmitter. the comoensation buffs werent even close

[acoustic lodge]

I wish the4y'd redesign deathstallker

[alpine wraith]

even a 20% might make things very strange for DS

[left ledge]

I wish they’d remove goremaw

[alpine wraith]

literally only using evis on ST to spend darkest night

[left ledge]

And give us any usable talent

[alpine wraith]

it just needs to do more

or get the OG dmg

it used to do triple the dmg

[lucid jackal]

Despite all these nerfs "without compensation", sub managed to be a strong prog spec for most of early prog, barring mugzee.

[alpine wraith]

oh and btw it did not cleave

[lucid jackal]

Sin got a buffed it probably didn't need

[left ledge]

Bruh

Ok man

[lucid jackal]

and rogue probably also needed a small buff if every spec is also going to get buffed

[left ledge]

And just like you argued with me before

Outlaw shit spec no dmg in raid

[alpine wraith]

sub was not even in the meters on many bosses after week 1

[slate marlin]

It was strong with transmitter+crafted dagger ye

[left ledge]

While the only outlaw player was in DF gear

[alpine wraith]

it was on always show me situation

[slate marlin]

then other clazses got gear

[lucid jackal]

Okay

[slate marlin]

and now sub is bad

[alpine wraith]

i mean being top 14

is something again right

[slate marlin]

except oab

[alpine wraith]

at least we got chosen

[paper iron]

what i m mostly mad about is that rogue is now probably the worst m+ class no cap at all i really think it

[alpine wraith]

poor dks didnt even get to play

[lucid jackal]

I don't even understand what you are getting at

[paper iron]

let s look forward next tuning patch, imma speedrun some hades cba

[acoustic lodge]

I bet corruption will make Sub gigga op\

[left ledge]

Nvm man lmao

[lilac stag]

Dude assa claps

[sour forum]

u know corruption expected dps rn is <1%

[left ledge]

Just as op as bfa s4 sub

Oh wait

[acoustic lodge]

You already kn ow

[left ledge]

[acoustic lodge]

I'm just playing haha

[alpine wraith]

corruption is whatever because best one is void ritual

and it will get nerfed

[paper iron]

nah assa is just the viable rogue spec, it s not even a good spec in m+ imo. Low middle range if u ask me

[alpine wraith]

by like 50% likely

[random hare]

hello sub friends

how are you all doing

[alpine wraith]

nah void ritual is almost 2%

[random hare]

i hope you are all doing nice and well

[alpine wraith]

so it will get hammered

all the others suck ass

[paper iron]

yea zero we had nothing to read

so we chilling

[alpine wraith]

we are glazing arcane mages

[acoustic lodge]

Idk why they even come out with corruption. Just to have it do nothing

[rustic mortar]

as usual nothing to read

[alpine wraith]

the real burst spec

[lucid jackal]

THey are probably going to buff it

[sour forum]

idk, i feel like playing assa is keys is sandbagging my team for restealth sometimes, its 4D chess to deal less dmg than some pew pew spec

[alpine wraith]

one is good guess how much it gets nerfed

[lucid jackal]

Hacha what are you even saying man

[acoustic lodge]

Man, I hope so

[sour forum]

outlul is actually fun in keys

[rustic mortar]

i mean i thought the .5 it will be rogue time for any changes or something but i guess i was clearly wrong about that

[slate marlin]

i wonder what metric they saw to justify not tuning sub

[random hare]

weird buff ngl

[lucid jackal]

Sub is literally one of the highest burst specs in the game

[alpine wraith]

yea top 10 is fine

[random hare]

arcane is the strongest spec in the game prob in dungeons where u need real funnel

[lucid jackal]

Its like what

[lilac stag]

You don’t need restealth. You want chain pulls at 35%.

[acoustic lodge]

Isn't it Utility over dmg?

[lucid jackal]

WW, Dev, Sub, UDK and what, MM?

[alpine wraith]

sadly i dont know enough about specs but add to that one feral too just though about it

[strange chasm]

Still does poop damage

[alpine wraith]

and arcane

[strange chasm]

Regardless of burst

[lucid jackal]

Bro

I'm referring to the fact that hach keeps saying "Sub isn't a real burst class"

[alpine wraith]

remember we talking burst sub does like 7m all of those do that or more and longer

[lucid jackal]

Idgaf about overall tuning

[strange chasm]

Oh

[lucid jackal]

Irrelevant in this context

[strange chasm]

Yeah sub is burst

My b

[alpine wraith]

it is a burst spec just not one of the best

[acoustic lodge]

this raid tier is pretty mediocre to be honest. All the boss fights are kinda just meh

[alpine wraith]

that is something people always get wrong

[strange chasm]

It's easily one of the best burst specs

[alpine wraith]

we are up there just mid

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fortnite-doctor-doom-sitting-on-throne-throne-sitting-down-gif-18760299

It’s hopeless. doom is strong today.

[lucid jackal]

ITS NOT MID MAN

ITS TOP 5

ITS A TOP 5 BURST SPEC IN THE GAME

[strange chasm]

Agree

[lucid jackal]

THERE ARE WHAT

30 DPS SPECS IN THE GAME???

TOP 5 ISNT MID

[acoustic lodge]

We're mid, even if you master the burst?

[lucid jackal]

ITS TOP 5

[left ledge]

Subs burst is strong yeah

[alpine wraith]

we just said 7 that are more bursty

[lucid jackal]

TOP 7 ISNT MID

[left ledge]

But it’s not the best burst

[alpine wraith]

or do same burst longer

[slate marlin]

Top 7 burst yeeei

[sour forum]

7 out of 26...

[acoustic lodge]

who's top burst with the most utility?

[sour forum]

hey 25% is not that bad

[slate marlin]

Out of how many specs tuned around burst?

[random hare]

guys

can we have some time to appreciate the pre patch nerfs we had?

[left ledge]

Yeah idk why we’re comparing it to all specs

[paper iron]

the issue is that

[random hare]

definitely needed nerf right

[alpine wraith]

that is actually true statistically sub is bursty and it is cool to see bug numbers

[paper iron]

yea we get some burst

[left ledge]

You’re lumping specs that don’t burst

[paper iron]

but our lows

[left ledge]

Out of the burst specs

Sub is pretty mid

[acoustic lodge]

technically the sub rogue almost did more dmg than the hunter if you don't count the pets lol

[strange chasm]

I think sub should've gotten some love

Everything around sub got buffed

[alpine wraith]

i mean if you have to compete with outlaw frost mage aug etc and lump them in the total numbers of specs

[lucid jackal]

Sub probably should have gotten a 5% buff

[slate marlin]

sub is mid burst

bad overall

[left ledge]

I wouldn’t say it’s top 7 when you’re including shit like aug

[alpine wraith]

yea tbh it is not that far and away from being decent

[left ledge]

That’s just disingenuous

[strange chasm]

Arcane and sub were the same dps wise and arcane got buffed

[acoustic lodge]

I have a good feelingwe will get buffed on tuesday

[alpine wraith]

just unnerf sec tech and maybe tier and it is fine

[strange chasm]

Sub should've gotten some love too

[alpine wraith]

nothing crazy at most 5%

or 4

[left ledge]

It’s okay guys next patch right

Hahahaha

[acoustic lodge]

oh shit

they nerfed UH

[lucid jackal]

I agree

[left ledge]

Wonder how many times we been saying that

[lucid jackal]

It just drives me crazy that people don't live in reality

[slate marlin]

Xd

[paper iron]

20s burst vs 45s lows (and a dance in that)

[acoustic lodge]

They really buffed balance

[lilac stag]

subs reality is we look really good first week or two and fall a bit flat with a few boss exceptions.

[hazy breach]

Well boomy does kinda stink

[paper iron]

they nerfed the aoe of boomie

it s a fine tuning imo

[hazy breach]

For m+ its like neutral from what ive seen

[lilac stag]

but they buffed Dev instead of Sub.

[paper iron]

oh not even nerfed for aoe

[wispy bolt]

Rogue dev must be OOTO this week

[alpine wraith]

rogue dev is playing poe2

[paper iron]

since they aura buff 3% and nerfed starfall 3%

[alpine wraith]

and getting farmed by white mobs

[paper iron]

so it s equal, just st buff

nvm

[lucid jackal]

I think it's more just the case that sub was good, for a rogue spec, and then they buffed assa, which probably just didn't need to happen at all

[lilac stag]

Elon that you?

[lucid jackal]

If sin never got a random 5%, sub will still be doing more damage on a majority of bosses rn

[acoustic lodge]

I agree! It caught me by surpise!

[lucid jackal]

It's a bit worse now ON DETAILS AND WCL on some fights its still just better despite that fact

[hazy breach]

I do find it strange that theyre buffing hero talents people arent using yet none of the rogue ones were touched

[slate marlin]

Yes ofc

[lucid jackal]

Large scale rework on the way thats why

[lilac stag]

I’ve been pretty consistent. Seeing overall sim dmg be such a wide gap at end gear was worrisome.

[hazy breach]

[wispy bolt]

Rogue dev either grinding away for huge changes or they’re MIA on leave

[lilac stag]

And yeah it’s not end all be all, but fuck man 600k+ st sim diffy?

[lucid jackal]

I mean have you seen how dogshit sin sims meanwhile its doing a bit more on most bosses now?

[acoustic lodge]

The rogue dev is probably playing SOD

[lusty narwhal]

so no sub buffs huh

[lilac stag]

Whispyr

[paper iron]

rogue havocdh dev is just on vacation

it s fine

[lilac stag]

[lucid jackal]

Look sub is better?

[lusty narwhal]

assa it is once again

[paper iron]

[alpine wraith]

they might buff fatebound more

[lucid jackal]

Holy outlaw GAPPING

[paper iron]

HOLY OUTLAW META SPEC ALERT ALERT

[alpine wraith]

wonder how much it would take

[lilac stag]

Assa bringing the funnel def helping out.

[slate marlin]

Sims dont matter tho, context where specs are played does

[lucid jackal]

Sprocket has no funnel

[alpine wraith]

sims are kinda for gear

[lucid jackal]

And the top 10 parses are outlaw/sin

[alpine wraith]

more than performance yea

[lucid jackal]

Sim dps across specs is just irrelevant is more my point

Sub probably needed a 5% buff this week

[paper iron]

outlaw being handicapped by playing fatebound on this boss

[lilac stag]

I haven’t looked lately. What are kill times?

[lucid jackal]

I also wonder how many of these buffs are actually buffs

[alpine wraith]

they are going down but slowly until this week

[paper iron]

sub is just brought for its timings / on demand burst i guess

[alpine wraith]

the extra 3% did a lot

[lilac stag]

I’m on mobile so not heading there

To check

[acoustic lodge]

I just want DF season 3 sub back

[alpine wraith]

still need the whole week to get good data i think

[paper iron]

i just want sin 2 first weeks of DF S3 back

[alpine wraith]

lots of guilds not raiding until sunday etc

[paper iron]

[sour forum]

#JusticeForDust

[wispy bolt]

dust was the start of the end

[lucid jackal]

Most sprocket kills are over 5 minutes

some go real long

[alpine wraith]

dust was cool just got overbuffed

then they didnt know wtf to do

and gave up eventually

[wispy bolt]

Now dust with base 1:30

[lilac stag]

No pi enjoyers?

[lucid jackal]

just 1

[alpine wraith]

is that hunter with almost 3m dps still top

[lilac stag]

I think I hit 2.25 on my assa sim. Ngl execute dmg feels higher on live

[alpine wraith]

or did he get beaten lets see

nope still there

no PI btw

ethical chad

[clever delta]

im confused, does sub need buff or nerf

[lilac stag]

Yes

But not BP

[sour forum]

delete it

[alpine wraith]

guess which is sub

[lucid jackal]

sub doesn't really NEED a buff, but sub could use a buff

[clever delta]

dosnt need buff if all other specs are nerfed by like 10-15%

[lucid jackal]

How bad do you think sub is rn

Like

[alpine wraith]

sub is not super bad just others got buffed

[lucid jackal]

[alpine wraith]

so it seems worse than it is

tbh

[lucid jackal]

I mean idk how many of these buffs are actually buffs

[sour forum]

ah yes, the "burst" class

[lucid jackal]

a lot of these are just "bad hero talents being buffed"

[stoic sphinx]

where are the goremaw's bite buffs

[alpine wraith]

arcane one is big

[clever delta]

idk my rank 2 log on sprocket did not beat ret pala with 90% parse

[alpine wraith]

was already kinda decent

[lucid jackal]

okay?

[bleak wind]

if your comp is not complete dogshit then there isn't a boss where sub is better

[clever delta]

ret pala

[sour forum]

new challenge

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/42?boss=3013

find the first rogue

[alpine wraith]

will need deep dive goggles

[clever delta]

im not even talkin abouzt hunters which did like 400k dps more

[grave delta]

https://tenor.com/view/its-over-its-genuinely-over-seal-sad-seal-breaking-news-gif-243396507301445550

[lucid jackal]

If you exclude externals, 79

[alpine wraith]

not bad not bad

[sour forum]

well with externals

[acoustic lodge]

360

[clever delta]

sub is dogshit now

[sour forum]

i found it at 360

[acoustic lodge]

it's an outlaw rogue

[sour forum]

and its outlaw

[clever delta]

and who say otherwise is dogshit too

[acoustic lodge]

Big sad

[lilac stag]

Was it Lothar?

[clever delta]

not bad performance

[acoustic lodge]

Yeah!

[acoustic lodge]

Oh well, I just unsubbed anyways. Maybe one day Sub will be good again

[sour forum]

idk but the lowest uptime on any rtb buff was like 87%

[lilac stag]

I wonder how many logs are still private

[lucid jackal]

we private log all tier

[alpine wraith]

likely quite a bit yea

[clever delta]

if there was no private logging rogue would be even worse

[young mural]

rougue = trash this patch

[acoustic lodge]

SIn is still good

[lucid jackal]

Rogue = fun this tier :D

[clever delta]

sub is fun

[lilac stag]

Rogue isn’t trash.

[clever delta]

it just dont do dmg

[hazy breach]

Surely theres buffs but they just forgot to add them to the post and it will be amended later

[clever delta]

actually could be

[astral narwhal]

Sub is wicked fun, it just doesn’t do enough dmg rn

[lilac stag]

They’ll fix something else and it’ll be a nerf

[sour forum]

dont sin and sub play the same as last tier lol?

[clever delta]

they updated last tunning later in week too

[lusty narwhal]

they forgor 💀

[young mural]

just frustrating to learn nuanced rotations, complicated conditions and interactions and train a lot to get out damaged by a hunter pressing 3 buttons

[hazy breach]

Thats not necessarily bad, as long as theyre fun

[clever delta]

thats actaully very true

[sour forum]

yea but guy saying "rogue= fun this tier"

[young mural]

thats true, but irrelevant to conversation. if it wasnt fun for us we probably wouldnt even be talking about it here

[lilac stag]

Rogue is fun this tier

[lucid jackal]

The issue is if you are expecting effort to always mean more damage then you will be upset every tier

[sour forum]

unless fun=numbers

[astral narwhal]

Real question though, will sub follow the trend of being dominants s3? Cause I’m a down for that

[slate marlin]

I like rogue playstyle

[young mural]

exactly, and that sucks imo

[slate marlin]

i enjoy assa and sun

sub

[young mural]

should be rewarding to learn complex classes

[lucid jackal]

So should easy specs never be allowed to be good?

[proper fulcrum]

Correct

[lucid jackal]

Should sub and outlaw always be one of the best specs in the game?

[proper fulcrum]

Just kidding

[slate marlin]

Not rly, theres a reason ret and hunter are most played classes

[sour forum]

arent all 3 hunter specs up top?

😂

[bleak wind]

ye assa's playstyle of no energy pooling and constantly getting out of energy being the correct playstyle is so fun

[slate marlin]

different players seek different challenges in a spec

[young mural]

this is a really interesting debate

[lilac stag]

Ret was absolutely dog shit in mythic raiding for expansions on end. It still got played.

[slate marlin]

But they have ti be balanced equaly idealy

[lucid jackal]

Idk if it's that interesting. Sometimes easy specs are op sometimes hard specs are op

It's fully random

[young mural]

imo make everything 100% equal and let skill shine through, but thats impossible 😄

[astral narwhal]

I hate this so much, it’s so frustrating to just constantly be pooling energy

[lucid jackal]

It depends on tier, trinkets, how encounters are designed

[slate marlin]

and? my statement is that ret is easy, and one of the most played specs

same as hunter

[bleak wind]

its less fun to not have energy for anything imo, at least there is something to keep track of with pooling

[lucid jackal]

Like no amount of sub buffs would make it better on mugzee yk

[lilac stag]

The gameplay and the tuning were both awful

People just want to be crusaders

Just like people want their pets

[slate marlin]

easy to play and very popular fantasy

[clever delta]

damn started gearing this rat today, and started off strong

not even my main have this bad boy

[lucid jackal]

But yeah I mean idk. To me especially after prog I just play "what's fun" bosses die no matter what spec u play on deep farm

Logs are only against your own spec anyway

If u really want to just grind for parses

[alpine wraith]

yea after prog it is whatever

stealthi said he will just play assa

less headaches

[lucid jackal]

Sub is the most fun, sub was also better for most of prog

[lilac stag]

at this point in ilvl and nerfs you can likely play whatever except mugzee?

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[alpine wraith]

kinda only mug zee need people for gaol shit

and also to phase decently into p2 then kill before enrage

with 5 heals

[bleak wind]

the only copium is you have a raid wide no parry buff

[alpine wraith]

there have been some 4 heal demonic runs

but those people are good

[lucid jackal]

Sin is one of the best specs in the game on mugzee

Across all specs

[lilac stag]

I just don’t see it being an issue to play what’s fun

[lucid jackal]

Ya

[alpine wraith]

most guilds dont even have 5 heals rn

[lucid jackal]

I mean I played sub all of nerubar even post sin buffs

Cuz like, it's fun

[alpine wraith]

when we kill one armed we will be like oh shit

[acoustic lodge]

How do you not lag on one armed

[lucid jackal]

A good processor

And not 30man raiding

[alpine wraith]

yea wow benefits a lot on the cache amd cpus

[lilac stag]

I go with how sleep deprived I am on raid night.

[alpine wraith]

even a 5800x3D is big

[lucid jackal]

But yeah

[acoustic lodge]

i have a ryzen 7800x3d

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is fun, probs sub buff was justified this patch

[young mural]

wdym was justified?

[lucid jackal]

Like sub probably could have gotten a 4-5% buff this patch

And been like, inoffensive

Would make it as strong as the other 2 specso n logs which a lot of ppl care about apparently

[young mural]

yhea instead of that we got nerfed at start of patch with a 20% hit to sec tech

[dusty totem]

Wait we are not getting buffed????

Its jover bliz pls fix

[lucid jackal]

and it was the best spec for every fight on prog, until sin got buffed, and mugzee

Crazy how that works huh

[clever delta]

sub was good until other ppl start getting loot

[young mural]

it was good with insane last season trinket and a 675 main hand

[clever delta]

as our scaling is non existent compared to others

[young mural]

after people also got loot we got cucked

[drifting fable]

0 rogue changes

just pmo

[young mural]

even in early sims, we already knew this tbf

[young mural]

pmo alot twin

[patent lichen]

Bro how they gunna do nothing to rogue, how fucking boring

[lucid jackal]

Dude lol

[astral narwhal]

This was just dumb

[acoustic lodge]

At least DS Sub is OP in pvp

[dusty totem]

Atleast sub was fun on ptr and first 2 weeks, time to swap as allways, bliz must have a vendetta agenst sub fr

[lucid jackal]

do you understand how worthless sims are in the context of evaluating specs

[drifting fable]

early sims and the spec is sub rogue

[young mural]

im just talking about numbers here, a buff and nerf would also be a numbers thing

[lucid jackal]

These are the highest simming ST specs in the game

[dusty totem]

Well i mean for a pure st fight with zero downtime sims should tell u how much dmg u do as a melee dps

[lucid jackal]

Here is sprocketmonger

[young mural]

this is kind of what we see in logs??

[lucid jackal]

Why is feral up here

and ret

That's weird

[young mural]

ofc, if you know a bit about statistics you'll know why

[lucid jackal]

Why is arms up there? I thought fury was better

[short radish]

Can you please write up again why assi > sub for mugzee.

[lucid jackal]

WHy is outlaw so low?

I thought outlaw was a high simming spec?

why is havoc so low?

This is why sims aren't useful for telling you "How a spec scales"

[young mural]

.

[hazy breach]

Because any damage above 40% is completely irrelevant

[acoustic lodge]

WIld af to see all three hunter specs lol

[dusty totem]

Bro ofc RANGED sims are overrating thier dmg on a fight where they have to move

[lucid jackal]

..?

[patent lichen]

Because of movement...... Oh wait a sec that's a melee

[honest brook]

cant find any patch note about rogue or iam blind

[lucid jackal]

Sub did a lot of damage on prog, not the best, but it was kinda like a shitty windwalker monk

[short radish]

we're in stealth

[lucid jackal]

Sims don't tell you this

Sims told you "Wow outlaw looks broken"

[dusty totem]

honestly true not sure what is up with havoc, but then again i have no idea about anything havoc

[lucid jackal]

"Lets play outlaw on every fight"

Sims tell you right now to play sub over sin

I don't think most ppl would say that right now

[jaunty heath]

Best part about maining this spec is I can just never read the patchnotes

And I wouldn’t miss a thing

[young mural]

idk guy, your view makes sense

but also its not like sims and raw numbers dont matter

[light finch]

Tell that to the Lootcouncil and their fixation on absolute number gains on items 😄

[young mural]

especially when buffs and nerfs are literally straight up number things, not playstyle and rotation stuff

[hazy breach]

Demo is above sub and they seem to have gotten a 6-7% buff

[young mural]

6-7% ST buff btw

insane

fuck rogue class designers really

[lucid jackal]

Sims 100% do not fucking matter

[acoustic lodge]

I believe the designers are not the same people who do calss balancing

[jaunty heath]

Sub was real good on early prog that was obvious before the tier

[lucid jackal]

If in current year you are looking at raidbots sims to evaluate a spec, you are a noob

[young mural]

would be wild if true

[jaunty heath]

But saying it’s in a good spot now is also eh

Idc ill play it regardless

It’s not dogshit

[lucid jackal]

good spot now? Probs not. I said it should get a 5% buff this week

[acoustic lodge]

I'm pretty sure it's been stated before

[lucid jackal]

But oh well, probs gets a buff next set of buffs they do

Or in the .5

Sub is fun, prog is over

Can't complain personally

[jaunty heath]

Oh yeah I didn’t imply you said it’s in a good spot sorry I worded myself poorly xd

[lucid jackal]

Ur g

[dusty totem]

Well i mean yeah ofc sub feels good if prog is over for u now

[jaunty heath]

Sub is fun prog goes on till another full moon rises

That’s my issue

[twilit phoenix]

Someone being mean to MY green name?

[dusty totem]

We crafted MH and did monster dmg

[acoustic lodge]

What makes you guys keep coming back for mythic raiding?

[twilit phoenix]

My addiction

[short radish]

stockholm syndrome

[jaunty heath]

It’s fun

Idk

[acoustic lodge]

I tried it in S1 of DF and it felt like such a waste of time

[jaunty heath]

Even in my low tier guild I just like doing damage to semi hard bosses

[lucid jackal]

it's fun

Hanging out wit da boys

[light finch]

Will be fixed with next T Set, which will be strong in the first week of HC Content so everyone will lose their mind again on the Forum and the T Set will be nerfed.

[jaunty heath]

Wouldn’t say any boss is really hard if ur very late at it

[acoustic lodge]

Shit, that's all that matters then! Dmg is w/e

[bleak night]

if you're very late to the boss its going to be hard for you, otherwise you wouldn't have been very late to it

lol

[lucid jackal]

Dude, you are aware that the sub tier set before the nerf was worth like, 33% DPS Right

do you think a tier set should be worth 33% DPS?

[acoustic lodge]

Yes

100%

[jaunty heath]

For the guild yes, if ur in said guild because you don’t wanna leave your friends no

[young mural]

shouldnt, but just nerfing it and not compensating fucks us over hard dude

[jaunty heath]

My brain is off 70% off the time

[lucid jackal]

OAB is a bitch for noobs tbh, and I don't mean that in a mean way

We overpulled OAB as fuck, like 180 or something nonsense

Mugzee is chill and gally is easy

[twilit phoenix]

We had 200 pulls on sprocket post nerfs

AMA

[clever delta]

we are stuck on bandit for personal mistakes

it sux

[twilit phoenix]

[clever delta]

nothing you can do

[lucid jackal]

The first nerf to the tier set, came with compensation buffs to the specs baseline. It ended up being a small numerical nerf, and then it got a secondary nerf after because it was still insanely strong. After continued tuning it's fallen off a bit but we don't need to be revisionist about it

[dusty totem]

Guy how much do u think sub would need to be buffed to be the best raid spec in the game?

[lucid jackal]

best spec in the game?

[brittle plinth]

evasion and feint were popped, might be our fault

[lucid jackal]

Or like, best rogue spec

[dusty totem]

in the game

[lucid jackal]

LOL

I mean

[jaunty heath]

Guys please we are still on stix and my rl is talking bout happy about a prog night because our % on the boss went down (we died in the same spot as every other time we just gained damage because off a raidbuff)

[clever delta]

like 20-30%

[lucid jackal]

Probs like what

15% or something

[jaunty heath]

Man if I could bother playing with someone else than my friends

[patent lichen]

But Sims don't matter

[jaunty heath]

[lucid jackal]

I can't tell if you are just pretending to be stupid or it's a full time gig for you

[clever delta]

i dont think on sprokcet the gap is only 15%

[lucid jackal]

Sims are useful for 1 thing. Relative value WITHIN YOUR SPEC when it comes to rotation, talents, gear.

The point of spec sims aren't to tell you "WHAT IS THE BEST SPEC"

[dusty totem]

It kinda is tho

[paper iron]

i ve just seen you guys posting sprocket stats

i m even more depressed now on no rogue line

[clever delta]

so top log is 2,9

[dusty totem]

And if u want to know how much dmg u would deal on a 5 min boss fight agenst patchwerk

[clever delta]

top sub is 2,38

[twilit phoenix]

Bigger sim = the spec is better

[jaunty heath]

Top public log

[lucid jackal]

Rogue cleave is good and this raid has a lot of it

[jaunty heath]

People forget that

[clever delta]

so with 15% buff we are at 2,737

so still 200k off

[jaunty heath]

Okay but you don’t need to be on top

[dusty totem]

Yeah but bro looking at top log is very bad statistics i based mine of 99% parse

[jaunty heath]

To be a good spec

If we were buffed to be a top log on sprocket

[bleak night]

if you aint first you're last

so i disagree

[dusty totem]

And yes u would still need slight more than 15%

[clever delta]

true

[bleak night]

a very wise man said that

[clever delta]

yeah as i said 20

[jaunty heath]

Idk it’s not very wise

Sub does other tuings

Does it need buffs

Ye

Certainly

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/will-ferrell-ricky-bobby-talladega-gif-9483405463232632107

[lucid jackal]

I mean specs are good for other reasons than "sprocket st damaeg"

[jaunty heath]

But like buffing it to a top spec on a raw st fight would make it very broken

[lucid jackal]

this raid is a LOT of cleave

[exotic kelp]

I think they should just double the damage of our finishers 🙂

[lucid jackal]

And sub does A LOT of cleave

[light finch]

Problem is how Blizzard operates in this situations, some specs seem to get harsher treatment with the immediate Nerf Bat, some slither they way through. I like the State of Rogue atm.

[bleak night]

triple

[clever delta]

should we check bandit logs

[bleak night]

then maybe its fine

[exotic kelp]

lets not stop there

[bleak night]

when i press sectec i expect my guilds ret pally to die irl from the cleave

[exotic kelp]

God I wish

The 6 that we have

[jaunty heath]

Let’s check bandit locks were a certain nieche is really fucking good

Borat vibes in here today again

Good night lads

[dusty totem]

Sub atm is only bis for one thing killing barrels on rik

but only the ones close to boss

[clever delta]

xdd

[dusty totem]

which die anyway

[jaunty heath]

Whole raid is full of nieches

[clever delta]

yeah

[jaunty heath]

If you noticed

Takes time I know

[frank bobcat]

I think some of the angst is that our niche (mega on demand burst) isn’t really required this raid (maybe OAB). It’s why Vexie feels good and these ST fights that don’t end exactly as our cds end feel not so great

Like it felt good to obliterate a platform on ansurek and know you were the best possible class to do it

[lucid jackal]

Why didn't you just answer the question

[young mural]

this

[dusty totem]

It is kinda obvious that they could not leave the tier set like it was. Their blunder was how they did the compenstation buff

They kinda killed our burst which is our niche as mentioned by lycaonar

[slate marlin]

Tierset shouldnt be 33% dps, thats a given

[lucid jackal]

The spec is still one of the best burst specs in the game though

The spec still has that niche

[dusty totem]

Yes but not to the same extend

[lucid jackal]

It is a top 5 burst spec in the game

[dusty totem]

I am not sure tbh but it felt like we have had better burst then any other spec in earlier seasons and now we are just top 5

[lucid jackal]

Do you understand that top 5 isn't your niche getting removed

[young mural]

wee what a useful niche insane 15 sec burst to get passed by 20 specs another 30sec later

[lucid jackal]

The specs niche still exists

its still one of the best specs in the game at that niche

How can you be a top 5 burst spec in the game, but also "Your burst is killed"

[dusty totem]

When ur burst before was insane

[lucid jackal]

Before when

When is before

[short radish]

before week -1

i get out bursted by hunters/devokers/ww

gamed is rigged reeeee

[lucid jackal]

Hunter only bursts that high cuz of lust right

[short radish]

ye probably

[tribal blade]

lol blizz not touching sub in the tuning, i fucking knew it

[short radish]

then 0 damage out of cds for the next 9 minutes

[leaden plover]

Sub aint gonna get any changes, just how it is 🙂

[lucid jackal]

Seems like it

[bleak night]

lmao

[clever delta]

sub is getting weaker with every week

[bleak night]

bursts at the start then goes afk

[light finch]

I don't know if I can answer that so easily, because a T set also allows you to change the profile of a spec, should a T set generally be that strong? Maybe not, but if the T Set accentuates the strengths of Sub Rogue in a way that an Aura Buff can't, I think a T Set can be particularly strong without buffing the spec in general.
In the next content you have to deal with buffs and nerfs to this set.

There have already been T sets and legendaries that have influenced the uptime of Shadow Dances quite a bit, etc.

[short radish]

played wiht some mm hunter in a key, dude was competing with the tank and losing outside of cds

[bleak night]

based spec

[short radish]

as is tradition

[hoary lotus]

Can one of you rich fucks pay the devil for rogue buffs already

[lucid jackal]

I mean this in the nicest way possible. The question isn't that complicated

[tribal blade]

sub is turbo dead after the next tuning until they decide to touch it

[lucid jackal]

The question is just "Do you personally think a spec should have a tier set that amounts to a 33% dps increase"

You can think yes, I just am asking

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/let-down-disappointed-i-expect-nothing-im-still-let-down-sad-gif-15977210

[lucid jackal]

they killed subs burst man it's over

[bleak night]

unlucky

0 burst spec

[lucid jackal]

Only bursts 6 mill every CD set inside and outside of lust

The niche is just dead

[dusty totem]

Okay fair sub burst is still busted

[lucid jackal]

Specs like arcane only really burst in execute for example lol

[dusty totem]

But maybe it could be 5-10% more busted if they had not moved dmg out of our cds into our downtime

[lucid jackal]

or MM which only bursts in lust

[young mural]

irrelevant question guy, ofc a tierset shouldnt be 33% of any spec's damage

[dusty totem]

But is true we can't be that mad about it when we burst 6+ mill st

[young mural]

but if they make it that way, nerf it to the ground, and leave it as a bad spec for whole patch its undeniably frustrating

[lucid jackal]

It's not really an irrelevant question. If the guy believes that sub having a 33% dps tier set is okay he can have that belief but theres no reason to continue the convo unless I know that

[frank bobcat]

I think what gets under my skin is that certain niches just always exist (cough warrior execute cough) and others don’t

[lucid jackal]

wdym?

[lucid jackal]

Do you understand why I call you guys professional victims

"Leave it as a bad spec the whole patch"

[frank bobcat]

Execute is always a mechanic in almost every possible fight

[young mural]

is it not?

[lucid jackal]

What spec was played on prog david

[young mural]

surv hunters doing 2.8m sustained

[lucid jackal]

On launch of the tier

[dusty totem]

It was bis first week

[lucid jackal]

Answer these next few questions pls

[hazy breach]

In theory we could swap to dark brew and get slightly higher burst, it just costs us a dance or two outside of cds so it ends up not being worth it overall

[lucid jackal]

SImple answers will suffice

What was played on prog

[young mural]

my bad, i meant for the rest of the patch

[lucid jackal]

It's 1 singular patch of a tier that is going to last for what, another 2 months?

[young mural]

ok dude, just because sub rogues were strong with a 675 dagger doesnt make us a good spec

[lucid jackal]

Thats not what I asked

Sin wasn't going to "scale ahead of sub"

It needed a buff to be better

[paper iron]

go cook a bigger cock and ball profile, with even lower lows inbetween cds

[hazy breach]

Its like -1%

[dusty totem]

U gotta remeber Guy that most peps where not doing end game content when sub was bis. They see sub doing good get hyped. Then everyone gets gear they go into raid and get disapointed

[hazy breach]

Ive giga tried, couldnt cook anything

[alpine wraith]

ok there is hope for corruptions

[paper iron]

😔

[young mural]

im going brew build what do i drop

[alpine wraith]

maybe they want them to be like void ritual a bit

so expect at least 2% dps from corruptions i guess

[lucid jackal]

The people that type in here aren't doing that

I know a lot of these people by username that do this game every tier

They Play rogue every tier

[short radish]

okay why am i catching strays wtf

[bleak night]

[dusty totem]

Okay fair play my man has memory

[icy mulch]

sub was so good they even got me off outlaw 😔

[hazy breach]

Pog now theyre worth like 1.5-2%

[dusty totem]

They had to buff them wowhead did a tier list

[alpine wraith]

ye they will be around void ritual lvl now

maybe void ritual still better

[hazy breach]

That shit isnt until mid May anyway

For some reason its not coming with the patch

Its like a month later

[young mural]

https://tenor.com/view/erm-aksuali-veli-vel-nerd-nerd-emoji-gif-11908435316515627035

do you think enchants should be 15% of your damage?

[tribal blade]

i for 1 am not surprised we didn't get touched in the tuning in the slightest

so i'm not that mad tbh

[paper iron]

33% bare minimum

[lucid jackal]

Silver lining for rogue being ignored is that at least rogue is fun

[alpine wraith]

i didnt even expect changes

kinda cool they buffed things like arcane or aug

[tribal blade]

ok here's the cope

we REALLY get shoved down to the bottom

and then they give us a giga compensation buff later

[alpine wraith]

well yea kinda

[paper iron]

yes buffing arcane cuz who cares it s already the new best mage spec in m+

[alpine wraith]

even bestest now

big funnel

[lucid jackal]

I'll keep repeating this, but nobody knows if these buffs are buffs yet

[alpine wraith]

while the others shred the other mobs

[lucid jackal]

Like herald for ret does nothing

Herald is still bad for example

[alpine wraith]

nah arcane and aug are legit buffs

and also the lock ones

demo got like a 6 % buff

on st

[paper iron]

but i ve to say, no yapping. I personnally dont like the fire changes. Going to frostfire will mean playing skb again

[alpine wraith]

they were down bad so it is cool

[lucid jackal]

Okay but aug is unplayable and arcane also sucks

So I mean

[alpine wraith]

arcane is very good rn

[lucid jackal]

They kinda deserve a buff

[paper iron]

yea i m actually amazed lock got buffed, it s like devoker buff last patch. Doesnt make a ounce of sens to me

🤷‍♂️

[dusty totem]

If the buffs to others are enough to do this bliz is forced to give us 10% minimum

[alpine wraith]

raid is already clear no one cares about it now endgame is m+

and pvp

kek

[paper iron]

sub being so low on ST

but also weird fight

[alpine wraith]

well sub might still be higher than aug

[lucid jackal]

Literally nobody is playing arcane

[alpine wraith]

just because no one plays aug

[paper iron]

u delay cds for like 20s

[lucid jackal]

This is +15s bro

NOBODY is touching arcane rn

[alpine wraith]

well that is about to change

[lucid jackal]

..?

[paper iron]

hopefull, asuna, couple chinese mages

[lucid jackal]

It seems pretty dogshit rn to me

no?

[paper iron]

are playing arcane tho

[alpine wraith]

look at top keys they are kinda doing it

[paper iron]

they switching between arcane / frost

[alpine wraith]

data aggregate takes lots of timeframe

[lucid jackal]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-tww-2/all/world/leaderboards#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=99

[alpine wraith]

they just kinda began switching recetly

[lucid jackal]

The entire front page has 0 arcane mages

[rough sigil]

One of those is my alts LOL, I have it at higher IO than my Sub Rogue, turns out being a bursty boy/funnel from range can be fun

[alpine wraith]

arcane is very fun yea

[lucid jackal]

I see hopeful is on arcane

I see like, one chinese guy playing it

[paper iron]

rogue need buffs

[lucid jackal]

I wouldn't call arcane good rn but thats just me

[paper iron]

[alpine wraith]

yea this is literally 1 week changes people are doing

they found out the juice

[paper iron]

i personnaly think frost is better, but idk they seems to valuate arcane prio damage / burst damage when i watch their streams

[alpine wraith]

things change week to week

arcane is kinda a better assa rogue

for the important dmg

worse overall kinda

but touch of the magi is 45 secs

and deathmark is 2 mins

[paper iron]

it really does bad overall yea

[alpine wraith]

but you dont need to do big overall when uhdk

does 30m on aoe

you just need that one fucker to die

and go next pull

[paper iron]

but it s funnel / prio target is just so good. Meanwhile fire is just aoe padd cuz u wont press single target combust rn. And frost has good cleave but has way better aoe

[patent crystal]

Maybe because sub is the stealthy spec, they cant see us...

[dusty totem]

Is arcane really that much better than assa at funnel find that hard to belive

[alpine wraith]

sub just needs to get the bug like in rookery

where you can get tfd every pull with the lighting buff

it is not that it does super better just has it every pull

assa is 2 mins

[paper iron]

they re different

assa is better funnel on long terms

but as burst funnel, arcane is better

like assa probably better on 1st floodgate boss, arcane better on 1st priory pack

if that makes sens

[dusty totem]

But assa has good prio dmg even outside of deathmark tho, but yeah maybe not has good as arcance with magi

[alpine wraith]

the thing is how pulls go

if there is no super prio target it is fine

sometimes arcane had the same problem as assa

you pop cds and the target with touch just dies

before pop

[paper iron]

but the main difference is, arcane mass barrier is busted, mage brings lust, blablablabla u know the drill

[alpine wraith]

and arcane int

and super nova

and mass poly

[paper iron]

i cant believe mass barrier on arcane still gives the DR

[alpine wraith]

jking about mass poly but yea

mass barrier kinda silly

[paper iron]

mass invis is a better shroud also

gives 60% dr to everyone

(but will reset the pack kek)

[young mural]

very smart you boy

[alpine wraith]

wasnt mass invis only pvp

[paper iron]

i dont think so

if i remember correctly

[alpine wraith]

or is there a way to get it

[paper iron]

it shares node with mass barrier

[alpine wraith]

ah

[alpine wraith]

only works for skips then

[short radish]

wait what bug is this?

[solemn creek]

Soooo.. rogue was ignored for 99% of ptr. Except the last week end where they nerfed sub... and is still ignore.. at what point does this become a joke

[lucid jackal]

Gg reroll

[bleak night]

almost there

[dusty totem]

Play mage i heard they get balance changes

[marble ledge]

Literally fire mage....buffs? Rogue not even mentioned on 11.5 lmao

Feral also not mentioned

fuck my ass

[dawn summit]

ff was ahead marginally in st and legitimately unplayably bad in keys

those changes make 0 difference

[lucid jackal]

I'll keep repeating it but I actually wonder how many of these buffs actually amount to a DPS Increase

Because a lot of these are "The bad hero talent is now a bit better"

[dawn summit]

wl buffs obviously, enhance maybe (im not up to date on how far behind stormcaller was), ele, and arcane

[paper iron]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q1GPK1h41caLJ3zjNUZsyF

[void mesa]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[paper iron]

skb lovers rejoice

[bleak night]

I think Arlo is weird too

[wide kernel]

No rogue changes in 11.5?

[sonic quail]

what would they need changed lol

😦

[wide kernel]

Did they.... buff boomie again?

[candid raven]

I think only in single target

[wide kernel]

Kinda Insane we do t get any changes when they literally acknowledge that there are underperformed specs

[candid raven]

I'm just glad they didn't buff Black Powder

[swift tinsel]

It's not too late

[swift tinsel]

the ret ones look huge but apparently its still way behind templar lol

[lucid jackal]

yeah so, 0% buff

[young mural]

boomkin 4% ST buff

in KOTG

about 1% nerf in aoe because of starfall dmg reduction

[lilac stag]

You know it’s bad when your DK notices you’re ignored again.

[alpine wraith]

kek

[lilac stag]

He doesn’t play rogue and I don’t say anything in guild about class balance.

we really be a meme now.

[swift tinsel]

I usually just trash talk templar ret

[alpine wraith]

can trash talk shado pan monk too