subtlety

[keen path]

Also I only do m+ so the only gear i get is from dungeons, Ive noticed there really isnt much mast/vers gear this season

[lilac stag]

1. Feral is good
2. Sub is not consistent dmg. Cds pop. Outside of them it’s healer dps.

you should pvp for the the 700 conq badge if you’re not raiding

[keen path]

Yeah I had that but I just got a champion track house of cards from the timewalking quest ahah xD

My sim for dungeon slice tho is close to 3.6mil but my feral mates is like 3.3 and hes still hard stomping everyone in dungeons?

We are 3k rating atm if that helps, like we arent super bad or anything xD

[odd sandal]

Do you guys plan to swap for assa after buffs for mythic prog? im kinda not sure if its worthwhile but on logs they look a bit better

[lilac stag]

Floodgate first pull I usually end up around 10million.

[keen path]

Yeah I burst like 11mil on big packs but it quickly drops down to like 6 or 7

[alpine wraith]

yea it is how sub works

we spike twice on sec techs

[lilac stag]

Play what you enjoy. Each has its strengths.

[alpine wraith]

and bps/evis with shadowcraft

[vocal crypt]

10 million is fine but you will drop hard if the mobs dont die fast. In Flood our overall dmg just sucks

[lilac stag]

Or if all your gear drops favor assa, play it.

[keen path]

Even on single target this patch ive noticed Im not miles ahead of everyone else on bosses, and falling off pretty quickly

[lilac stag]

3million overall sucks?

[keen path]

Last season boss fights were my jam xD

[vocal crypt]

Yes it sucks hard compared to other classes

if you go Assa you are someting around 4,5 - 5 mio overall

[odd sandal]

Im somewhat close gearwise, just recraft stuff
I'm mostly concerned if im trolling my guild by not playing assa rn

[keen path]

Nahh I always play sub, i love the spec played it since like cata

[strange chasm]

Interesting that sin is doing more damage on OAB than sub now....

[vocal crypt]

i love it too but if you want to push higher keys you just make it harder for you group in some dungeons

i hate playing Assa its the biggest shit ive ever played but in 3 Dungeons you have to if you dont want to be an affix for your group 😄

[keen path]

I play with 2 mates and tbh dmg hasnt really stopped us pushing, its more us doing something silly and caking the key

[wild hornet]

I just tell the tank to pull bigger

Gg

[keen path]

We got pretty high in shadowlands with my mate playing feral and they literally had 0 aoe buttons xD it was almost like he was griefing every key

[vocal crypt]

yes but if you have more dmg = faster = more room for mistakes and even time it

[lilac stag]

If you’re playing the specs equally as well than no you’re not trolling.

[keen path]

We are at 3k rating atm and we dont have any issues with time on +12s. We arent looking to push like top 0.1% or anything

[vocal crypt]

I would love to just stick on sub for every key but it feels so shit when you come out of your Floodgate with 3,6 mio overall and the next DD sits there with over 4,6 mio

[vocal crypt]

Yes i speak more about the higher keys like 14-16

[keen path]

I'll always play sub, I was just wondering if its a me being bad thing or not xD

[honest brook]

guys is gladiators badge of ferocity worth to get?

[odd sandal]

if you dont have transmitter/house of cards yes, otherwise no

[honest brook]

ye anlaky on both

[odd sandal]

okay thanks ill stay with sub:3

[vocal crypt]

And since Assa have also a good prio dmg there is no point byside of fun to stick on subrogue if you really want to push for seasontitle or something. Just make things harder, thats my point 😄

I hope we will get a buff with 11.5 since our raidperformance and m+ performance falls behind (pray) 🙏

[keen path]

Nah we aint that sweaty aha. We just play the specs we love and try and do our best and see where we end up. been doing that since legion m+ and its always been fun for us. I think getting to 3k is still pretty decent compared to the rest

I kinda wish they would make nimble flurry reduced dmg beyond 8 so we didnt have to use BP and keep with that fantasy but thats just me

[vocal crypt]

Yeah ok then you can stick on sub for sure 🙂

[vocal crypt]

Or buff bp that it feels good in bigpulls to press the button

[keen path]

Yeah thats another option

Or have flawless fall off less xD Ive noticed if that falls of for like 2 seconds ur damage drops a fair bit xD

So why would my sim dmg be so much higher than others but in reality theyre doing more? Is it just the timing of the sim ends in a burst window or something?

[vocal crypt]

I only use simming to see which gear i should wear. The "dmg" numbers are just fake in my opinion 😄
My subrogue also sims higher then my Assa but this will never happen in some dungeons so idk what it is simming in Dungeon Slice

[keen path]

Makes sense but wouldnt that mean technically the gear its saying is better could be wrong?

[lilac stag]

In dslice assa doesn’t sim sudden demise properly (if memory serves right) and sub doesn’t sim TFD properly.

So take it with a pinch of

[keen path]

Ahhh of course, its probably got TFD for every pull aye?

[lilac stag]

It has it for 1 the entire dungeon

[keen path]

Ohhhh so it technically should be higher? xD

This isn't helping my case xD ahahah

[lilac stag]

In both missing bits, they should be higher

assa takes advantage of good chain pulling and just keeps going

[vocal crypt]

in good chainpulling you said it 😄

i hate it when the mob has 1% health and the tank is chaning the next group

[jaunty heath]

do you send second dance in shadowblades without a finisher inbetween to keep stacks?

or do you dance before pressing symbols again i guess you should do that instead

[keen path]

I think sometimes there is a finisher in between and it would drop the winning streak stacks

I dunno i dont really watch the winning streak stacks tbh

[jaunty heath]

but you could dance without symbols for the second dance to do one finisher before activating second symbols right which solves the problem

but idk if thats a loss of any sort

[keen path]

Yeah i dont watch the stacks I just let it do its thing I dont think its much of a difference to worry about

again im not looking to be the best or anything

So something like that i wouldnt bother with too much, but i dont think thats going to give me and extra 10% across a dungeon

[hollow spear]

I just turned that aura off in my WA

the brainpower it takes me to minmax stuff in my head

takes away from actually doing dam

[untold bone]

am lost between HC jaster or mythic track legs from vault

[old venture]

Probably jastor, you have way more opportunities to get myth track legs vs getting another jastor in vault or winning it in raid (unless your guild assigns loot and you’ll get it soonish)

[worn ivy]

how big is forced induction

[hollow spear]

big

[worn ivy]

How big

[hollow spear]

sim it

[worn ivy]

i need 1 combo şpoint

for vigor

[fair anchor]

This will ring in my head next time my tank runs ahead with creepers and their flock outside of the light right as i pop flag in the DFC cart event

[keen path]

Yeah I feel like id just make more mistakes cause im watching that and not looking at the actual game and just end up in a worse position xD The diff I feel isnt even really noticible

[vale pine]

haha ^^

[keen path]

You should see my feral mate pop typhoon right as I sec tec and blow everyone away for the 2nd part xD

[fair anchor]

Ah the real dungeon affix

[keen path]

And when we have a shadowpriest he sees the shadowcrash and thinks "this is my moment"

[fair anchor]

Nah this is evil

Missing sectec sucks, whiffing shadowcrash you can legit afk

[keen path]

Its really funny when it doesnt happen to you, its really sad when it happens to you

[lucid jackal]

Intermission + p2 boss

[hazy breach]

Bro was doing like 20% more than the top public log

[leaden prairie]

nice ok

[limber relic]

Any logs homies that could help a brother out? I just feel like im missing something

!logs

[kind bluff]

I've got 98 and 99 on every fight but for some reason I can't seem to pull more than a 94 on vexie. Seems like a flawless run and just am not able to push to that next level.

[nocturne canopy]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[limber relic]

Im just trying to get in the 90s lol

[hazy breach]

Are you standing near enough adds with your nimble during the intermission?

And also you ideally want others to not do much to them, but thats often a "it is what it is" situation

[untold bone]

am sitting at 25k mastery unbuffed now, should i try to bring it down to 20k to avoid DR?

[hazy breach]

Nah, if the sim says mastery go mastery

[untold bone]

do i use the stat weight sims on raidbots to know if i need more or less mastery?

[lucid jackal]

Top gear

[kind bluff]

Is sectec based off of me? Or the mob I'm hitting? Area wise?

[hazy breach]

The mob

[kind bluff]

Then yea just missing some nimble

Damn

[hazy breach]

It being around the mob kinda sucks sometimes

Like on carnage, you can cleave nimble

But sectech wont ever cleave because theyre too far away

[kind bluff]

Could greed and stand next to mobs that are in oil lol. I've been trying to be kind to my healers

[paper iron]

just spread ignite

oh wait

wrong discord

[lilac stag]

just splatter

[hazy breach]

Spatter is green ignite

[paper iron]

spatter works during the clash i guess yea

[keen path]

Whats the range on the sectec aoe from the mob?

[limber relic]

My Avg cast dmg seems low compared to other logs. Is that just me fucking up SoD and dance?

Compared to random log im looking at

[small juniper]

is ur warrior dead or what

[bleak night]

arms notoriously weak in execute

what can you do

[lucid jackal]

He did a prison

[vale pine]

, when a warrior goes straight to prison

[midnight geyser]

Are you

Using SOD to buff sectec

Using cold blood

[silent ruin]

Does gloomblade work with nimble ?

[limber relic]

For the most part yes. I did have CB macro'd to sectec but took it off recently to try and maximize it with the 2nd one in the opener

I honestly think my opener is mostly fine I feel like i fall off between CDs

[midnight geyser]

That could be it

Yk your second sectec

In big windows

Are you ensuring it’s within your 2 gcd from symbols

[limber relic]

Yeah it should look like this mainly right? (Forgot the CB here though)

[midnight geyser]

Looks fine assuming you symboled pre pull

What about the second sectec

[limber relic]

This was the 2nd...again fucked up CB. Got to used to it being macro'd

[crude path]

By using symbols prepull, is that with the intention of the supercharged combo points or for to have the damage buff + the rotten active during opener before SD?

[alpine wraith]

superchargers

[hazy breach]

Supercharged points

[alpine wraith]

the rotten things are so minimal

and even then on raid i recommend using finality

[hazy breach]

Its not right before pull

[alpine wraith]

yea just use sod as you ress

[hazy breach]

The superchargers last forever

So you use them like 30s+ before

[crude path]

Oh perfect that’s what I was thinking but just wanted to make sure. Follow up, I see guides saying use evis as first finisher and then rupture as the flagellation starter before going into SD. Do I have it backwards?

[vale pine]

you either

strike-flag-rupture-dance-backstab-secret-...

or

strike-flag-evis-vanish-strike-rupture-dance-backstab-secret

both is perfectly fine in the opener

[crude path]

I see

I think I might be pressing flag too close to SB

[vale pine]

you will flag always early

the diffrence is just if you vanish-strike or not

[vocal crypt]

how much earlier ?

[vale pine]

well its basically

flag-cooldowns

or well flag-finish-cooldowns

[crude path]

I’ve basically been hitting flag-finisher-cooldowns

[vocal crypt]

Yes that the same for me. Flag, finisher, cooldowns

[limber relic]

Hmmmm been delaying mine then...I've been strike > rup > van > strike > flag > CDs

[vale pine]

you can use flag earlier

but its fine

the above should still be okay

[crude path]

So instead of getting one finisher before CD’s after flag, I can fit two?

[vale pine]

the diffrence is timing

doing strike-flag-rupture-dance

is faster, and it means you have a easier time fitting cooldowns on many fights or on packs in m+

doing a vanish is fine but delays your cooldown use for 2 gcds

[crude path]

I see. I’ve been using vanish in between 1st & 2nd dance to bring Secret Technique up faster

I suppose that’s a misplay

[cold trellis]

how do u use 2min cd trinket if u dont have cards or similar?

on cd or every 3 min?

[tepid trellis]

between the first 2 dances, yeah thats not great, you relly wanna back 2 back dance during flag

[tepid trellis]

yes

for every 2nd set of cds

[cold trellis]

tthx

[lucid jackal]

Nothing is bad for sub on that fight, it's just sin is 50x better than the other 2 specs on the fight

U hold DPS in p1 so P1 damage kinda doesn't matter. Spatter hits the goons in the prison that flurry can't hit. You get 2 cooldowns on sin, both of which being in execute, one of which being with lust

It's just such an insane sin fight

[tepid trellis]

best way to explain it is, Sub is better in p1, Assa is better in p2 but with how the fight is now how good you are in p1 doesent matter, only dmg that really matters is sub 40%

[lucid jackal]

Theres a lot of fights where "it doesnt matter what u play"
more so than what most people assume

But mugzee is like, such an obvious sin fight

Sin is just, so, so much better than the other 2 on mugzee

[tepid trellis]

it wont make or break mug'zee prog on which one you decide to play

[delicate wind]

that's just for mythic, ya? heroic doesnt really matter i can sub life it

[tepid trellis]

but assa does help more than sub will

[lucid jackal]

Mythic convo yeh

[lucid jackal]

Uhhhh

It kinda will

guilds die to enrage still

[tepid trellis]

no

[lucid jackal]

U need P2 damage

[tepid trellis]

it will not

[lucid jackal]

Sub is doing 2.1m to mugzee intermission onwards

Sin is doing like 2.7m

[tepid trellis]

if people dont die

you wont wipe to enrage

[lucid jackal]

Yeah and if everybody plays perfect they'd be in liquid

[tepid trellis]

then why bring a rogue at all?

[lucid jackal]

Sin is also very good at goon damage throughout the fight

[tepid trellis]

you want more p2 dmg?

bring arms

[lucid jackal]

Arms can't help with goon damage

Thats why

[tepid trellis]

bruh we hold goon dmg

they die to fast

[lucid jackal]

Ok

[vale pine]

is there one boss you would bring rogue over something else?

i am not saying rogue is bad, but i don't think its mandatory

[calm palm]

Is the something else Aug

[sullen hare]

My guild doesn't have a rogue ATM 🫠

[tepid trellis]

if it wasent for the debuff, no i dont think so

[rocky totem]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[final holly]

how do you go about determining if ephemeral bond or exilerating execution is better for your group?

[dense forge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3t8rHqFdjfzV6M9Q?fight=last&source=5
i am new to sub and i would like some help with what to do and what i need to improve on. my dps is quite low too so i will need some help with that too

[autumn glade]

type !log and put the log in there, easier to group any answers or helpful tips people have for you

[clever delta]

still going crazy

[alpine wraith]

makes sense

[young path]

Anyone experiencing awkward first dance talent reset timings?

There’s times where I’m out of combat, back into stealth and a solid extra 5-6 seconds pass before the buff itself starts its internal countdown of another 6 seconds before awarding you the buff

I’m half tempted to race change NE just to have meld as an option in an attempt to have control of the timer (which I have no idea it will actually work)

[hoary lotus]

Most of the time it bugs and resets the countdown it's due to group combat, sometime if I vanish it gives me first dance instantly, other times it does nothing

[astral minnow]

is it real that Zee's is the best? (5 min sim)

[oblique chasm]

hey, just wanted to know which talents do u guys prefer to use in raid ?

(deathstalker or Trickster)

[autumn glade]

Trickster is way ahead in every way so, it's the only real choice

[oblique chasm]

ahh okay thx mate 🙂

just started playing sub like 2 days ago and all sides show talents for both but was wondering which one would be better 😄

[wet lava]

I noticed when u pop blades and go into rotation w house of cards macroed into blades, it cuts it really clost getting 2 the second cold blood secret tech, if house falls off while secret tech is going through its animations do you lose the dmg?

[alpine wraith]

it is not that close

remember to use blades a bit after sec tech just in case

[hazy breach]

It shouldnt be close

Youre probably delaying your dance until sectech is ready rather than immediately when its ready if i had to guess

[wet lava]

wait, ik the rotation is backstab first then blades sech tech, but u use blades after sech tech 2?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter if you use it before or after sectech

[grave delta]

How much worse is deathstalker sub...

[hazy breach]

Like 3-4%

[wet lava]

tyty

[small juniper]

np

[stiff spear]

maybe a dumb question, but should I be waiting for the coup de grace animation to finish before I press the next ability?

[hazy breach]

You cant use any ability until the animation finishes anyway

So just spam

[cunning turret]

hi guys, i seem to keep having symbols cap at max stacks for 7-10 seconds around the 3m mark, as by that time i'd have to hold my dance for flag. should i be doing a symbols+sec tech around that point without dance?

[crimson meteor]

you should be chaining the 2nd dance into the 1st dance especially with 4p so you don't lose your winning streak stacks, right?

[crimson meteor]

saw someone say if you have 2 symbols up and ready around ~30 seconds before CDs are coming up you can symbols sectech

[long marlin]

are you suppose to get off gallywix to hit adds? or is his hitbox big enough whre nimble fury just works? Also, do you need to position a certain way for it to work?

[hazy breach]

Nimble is based on you

So nimble will work if youre next to it

[long marlin]

can they be behind you?

if your close

[hazy breach]

Yes

[long marlin]

thanks

[hazy breach]

Its 8 targets around you in a circle

[long marlin]

ok not sure how to ask this but um

is the cirlce big? lol

like how close do i have to be

[bleak night]

well fuck me i guess

[autumn star]

Don't you win the 95 one after?

[fallow nimbus]

he lost both in the end

[autumn star]

Ripperino

[bleak night]

i rolled badly anyway, but also the 100 got a tie

[vocal crypt]

how do you open in a bigpull like floodgate first pull ? Shadowstrike - flag, rupture - cds - pb ?

Or Flag into first pb ?

ehm bp

not pb 😄

[alpine wraith]

trike flag rupture into cds yes

[vocal crypt]

k

[vale pine]

i got it on HC

[alpine wraith]

big

[vale pine]

haha, sorry

hope you get it next time

[bleak night]

its ok my guild is doing heroic offnight tonight

surely it drops right

[limber relic]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[vale osprey]

Is it worth it at this point to use double myth rik daggers and put 2nd embelishment somewhere else? this early in the season am I just "wasting" the dps I'd get from the upgrade due to having a wasted spark craft?

[limber relic]

Anyone have a good super charger WA?

[alpine wraith]

ideally you can go 2 rik daggers yes

but the win is very little

[vale osprey]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ibxR2bpH6nF5EK7RQbvoGm

0.8% but I'm also wasting a spark that was used on dagger I guess

[alpine wraith]

well not much you can do

[limber relic]

Ehh if you got use out of the dagger i wouldn't worry much

[alpine wraith]

it ran its course

[solar geode]

I'm looking at warcraft logs, what's Akaari's soul and why's it in my damage?

[hazy breach]

Its sectech

[thick temple]

Why am i using shuriken in big packs instead of ss when im in dance/blades? i understand using shuriken to build cp easier but ss always gives you max cp esp when in blades. Whats the concept im missing

[hazy breach]

Use it once to apply find weakness

So you can bp

[fallow nimbus]

why can't we sim just 3 gem colors? i would do anything for this 2k gain

[left ledge]

Collect or stand in circle

https://tenor.com/view/venom-gif-27487650

[fallow nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/cards-hands-science-brainfood-gif-3417453

house of card enjoyers

[wild hornet]

@tepid trellis doing the evasion everyone does 13 seconds in helped with the rik dmg

[alpine wraith]

i had to focus barrels a lot smh

[wild hornet]

i have to do mechs

as sub

smh smh

[bleak night]

I don’t actually hit boss at any point

Barrel gaming

[solar geode]

how come it's called that?

[hazy breach]

Thats the name of the clones that spawn and do the shadow hit

[jade ginkgo]

comes from the legion artifact daggers, first instance of the shadow clones we ever got

[paper iron]

and then SoFo tier set was like

[solar geode]

interesting

[paper iron]

"MORE CLONES MORE CLONES"

[small juniper]

gallywix down

legendary

rrrrrrank 1

[solar geode]

hell yeah

got my first ever bunch of purple/blue parses on heroic on sub rogue today :D

[paper iron]

YO RAZ

[slate marlin]

replace fw with more clones

[clever delta]

dropping fast:))

[alpine wraith]

yea i guess it will get to around 1.5 or 2 mil fast across the week

then maybe stay there

[shadow lance]

-0.3 % Dps

Sadge

The only loot I would to take

[slate marlin]

hm you could catalyze pants

dagger is vers mast too

[alpine wraith]

get the roulette big mastery

trust

when more than 1 target appears on screen you will like it

[bleak wind]

what website is that

[west tide]

guys i have 4 piece mythic now

[alpine wraith]

https://www.wowpay2win.com/?tier=t42&region=eu&boes=232658&ilvlRange=662,675

[bleak wind]

ty

[alpine wraith]

remember you can move gold to any realm now

with warband bank

just create an allied race

[bleak wind]

ye I know

[clever delta]

Already found helm under 3

[muted frigate]

Is there a macro for unequip and requipping jastor?

[alpine wraith]

likely

[twilit phoenix]

give it one week

and those boes are gonna be like

sub 1 mill

and then I'll yoink one

[alpine wraith]

yea i expect them

[twilit phoenix]

and recraft boots to either sin or outlaw stats

[candid raven]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[twilit phoenix]

@lucid jackal you staying sub for gally?

[shell arrow]

Recommendation on trinkets:
resonating heart, funhouse and energy drink
Ive simmed dungeon slice, patchwork 5 and patchwork 1 and its mixing between funhouse and resonating any thoughts whats probs best?

[hazy breach]

Get the pvp badge

[alpine wraith]

funhouse is not that good try and get a better on use yes

[paper iron]

Eleem

you remember when we said sub was the best burst in the game bfore the whole set of nerfs and stuff

[bleak night]

[alpine wraith]

well it was for like 2 weeks

good times

[paper iron]

17seconds timestamp on pull (we got knocked on sprocket so i m gone but still)

[alpine wraith]

i mean just look at top hunter log and top sub

MM sustains like 7m for 40 secs

sub does like 7m for 5 secs

then goes to the bin

[paper iron]

if we go for 5s

just 3 buttons pressed

[bleak night]

Yeah engulf is giga

[hazy breach]

Turns out when your burst gets nerfed by 40% you do less burst

[alpine wraith]

they also nerfed transmitter twice too

just in case

[bleak night]

[paper iron]

i m on hoc anyway but

idk

guess imma full recraft crit and go assa

was fun

this sub iteration was fun

[alpine wraith]

well it does damage

[bleak night]

As soon as you recraft sub is getting 100% buff to sectec

So take one for the team

[paper iron]

i m on mugzee anyway and sub feels terrible in key comapred to sin / outlaw

[rough sigil]

Not home at the moment, but how would I go about getting a logs review? I feel like I am trending worse than last season and can't figure it out on my own.

[short radish]

type in !log

and then post your log in there

[hazy breach]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

and hope someone looks at it

[paper iron]

Fimbul i ve an issue now with you

everytime i see you

[short radish]

?????????????

[paper iron]

i hear whispyr trying to say your name

[short radish]

LOL

[bleak night]

Fimbulvunttttrrrrrrr

[paper iron]

fimbueiolveuteur

[lucid jackal]

Ya sin garbanzo bean other than mugzee

[short radish]

have you heard him try say it when he's drunk?

[alpine wraith]

sub is very good for the add thingies

[paper iron]

nah jsut yersteday when he sent the voice thing

[short radish]

leme find it

that was part 2 of the meme

[paper iron]

idk if i would say very good, but better than assa probably, and outlaw idk. But what do i know i havent stepped in/ watched lot of gally

[alpine wraith]

well you do your dmg instantly

assa is not bad per se

but also gally is a bit of a wash

you go in when you are warmed up he just dies

[paper iron]

hey

[rough sigil]

Thank you @hazy breach, @short radish , and @wicked jolt xD. I will take a look at this when I have a moment. I was looking at LLORGs IO and saw that my flags, blades, dances were all lining up with the othe rogues, but I was doing waaay less damage so maybe it is indeed the 8 globals that is fucking my damage.

[paper iron]

it looks fun to be range still in wow

[short radish]

damn its gone

[paper iron]

@leaden prairie

[short radish]

man i played my spriest on 2nd boss rookery

and holy shit

it's acutally just a different game

[paper iron]

oh yea

i m alting fire mage

[alpine wraith]

that boss is anti melee

[paper iron]

so i dont even have cast times

imagine

i m litearly perma running arround having fun at 40 yards

[short radish]

dude i watch my zoomer friend play fire mage

and he's just spinning around

running around everywhere

[paper iron]

they just havent moved a inch

[short radish]

pressing his rotation

doing a billion damage

[paper iron]

and so they bait the drones charge ez cuz it s only on melee it seems like

they perma melee range

yea fire is real fun rn, but a bit too smooth. It feels so weird to not have to hardcast anything really and also you generate way to many ib rn imo

[alpine wraith]

yea my mage even at 620 with only 19k haste

just wildin

[paper iron]

i dont have haste i cant get the neck or the ring

i ve perfect gear for frost tho, but idk

but at least, it s fun. Unlike df where it was kinda meh

[alpine wraith]

i had a warbound reverb radio that helps a bit

[paper iron]

i almost got baited into a key

[elfin yew]

is it possibleo to macro flag to shadow blades

[short radish]

yes but you shouldnt

[elfin yew]

roger

so just house of cards then?

[short radish]

no i'm fimbulvtr

macro house of cards to sblade

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[elfin yew]

thanks

[short radish]

np

[paper iron]

roger would be easier to pronounce i guess

[short radish]

[alpine wraith]

better than eustaquio ermenegildo

[small hemlock]

W

[hasty mirage]

Guys i want to ask you , is there a way in a castsequence macro that starts with Shadowstrike , to maybe have it to cast backstab is shadowstrike is not avaialbe( due to me being in combat?

[slate marlin]

brew 14?

[muted birch]

shadoowstrike doesnt have cd

so why wouldnt it be avaiable

[hasty mirage]

needs to be in stealth/shadow dance

[muted birch]

well you start

fight with stealth

and you got your normal action bar

and stealth onme

its actually common to put backstab insdie stealth bar

\for DM stacks

[grim anchor]

is it optimal to BS first builder in every dance vs just during blades

[lucid jackal]

every

Its this talent that causes us to do it

[short radish]

every dance

but also if you dont have FW on it and you arent behind

better to SS

[grim anchor]

cheers

[edgy zenith]

wait is this real? it's only better to worry about DM if you get the backstab damage amp?

that sounds fake

[short radish]

wellllll

its only a worry in a small amount of scenarios

one of them is sprocket

because you should always be behind your target

[edgy zenith]

i haven't worried about being behind target since our raid buff got added

[hazy breach]

The backstab amp is irrelevant

But you can only apply find weakness from behind

[edgy zenith]

so basically the DM is only worth it if you can apply the FW to make up for the damage loss of SS?

that is soooo criminal

[hazy breach]

No

The backstab isnt worth it if you will not have FW up afterwards for your next eviscerate

Thats it

[edgy zenith]

so it's always worth it? unless you're proccing crazy and can sectech > evis?

which is like never

and wait, what if your BS doesn't crit?

it's a loss?

[short radish]

youre over thinking it mate

the uptime of FW is very very high

but just take half a second before you dance

to check for the debuff

[hazy breach]

It pretty much never matters except on fights where you consistently have to be infront of the boss and they havent made it so it counts as beeing behind, aka only sprocket mythic

[paper iron]

i remember when outlaw could have FW

🥹

when it was in rogue tree for whatever reason blizzard thought it would be a great idea, as well as acro

[short radish]

bring back acro

[paper iron]

Sub and assa should ve never touched acro, it was just not needed

(not gonna talk about the fact that they couldnt figure out how to make sectech works with acro kek)

[hazy breach]

Its hard to make sectech work with anything

[paper iron]

yea idk why they havent made it just be a thing arround the player

[hazy breach]

Took them over a year to make it work with new blades, and its likely gonna take that long until it starts working with lingering darkness

[paper iron]

pretty sure it would fix 99% of the bullshit of it

[hazy breach]

And its still gonna be fucked on logs if the person logging is far away

[muted birch]

Btw question out od thin air

[bleak night]

no

[muted birch]

Ramfam still plays ?

[bleak night]

oh i got it right

[muted birch]

XD

Kinda sad

[paper iron]

nah

[muted birch]

He had watchable streams

[bleak night]

hes in a better place

[paper iron]

he left after aug got implemented

and said he would be back once "the dogshit thing that aug is gone"

[muted birch]

Aug was..

[paper iron]

but yea, still havent heard of him

well, he still hang out in his discord sometimes but that s it

idk what he s up to

[muted birch]

Mby he touches Grass now

Is a better humanbeing

[paper iron]

anyway i think if he logs and see killing spree

he ll jsut insta log out again

[muted birch]

Yup

Well i do find rotation more fluid

With KS

[paper iron]

yea but

ks in sprocket

ks in oab

[muted birch]

Only ks is not fitting im my fengahui

[paper iron]

ks in mug

ks in gally

at least outlaw is the best healer in cauldron just because of this

[muted birch]

Quick finger

To line

XD

[paper iron]

look at that

isnt it beautiful

[muted birch]

Yeah saw IT xD

Hilarious shit

[calm creek]

@vale pine logon bazaar is good again

[hazy breach]

Mak

[calm creek]

they brought back daily ranked tickets

[muted birch]

What's that ?

[hazy breach]

Another game

Is good

[muted birch]

Never Heard of

Got any link to it?

I swear ill fucking throw this piece of garbage far

Stupid xiaomi

[paper iron]

Another game in my rogue channel 😠 not on topic? 😠 what happened here we only talk about rotation and opener 😠

jkjk

[tall girder]

Obsidian lighter goated

[hazy breach]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67eeee02&is=67ed9c82&hm=b9fb0114a31820089b883dbe3d753a2e1019c8f2861bd477f6d10cb0c5c09ff0&format=webp&quality=lossless&

Gotta talk more about rik barrels

[paper iron]

rik was a week 1 thing

now everyone knows

worst case they look at lorrgs

[hazy breach]

In assa they definitely dont

[paper iron]

what do u even do as assa?

just spatter them

[hazy breach]

Hope your team carries you

[paper iron]

probably delay your first vendetta

[hazy breach]

Thats the point of the pic (which is from a command)

[muted birch]

I wonder if sub deathstalker will be viable again

[paper iron]

NO

PLEASE N O

[hazy breach]

Hopefully not

[paper iron]

I DONT WANNA

[muted birch]

Ok so im the odd one

XD

I only dont Like fatebound

[paper iron]

specially in aoe

never played it

[hazy breach]

Well the passives from trickster makes the spec feel better to play

The passives from deathstalker are like passive damage trinkets

[paper iron]

but apparently ds in aoe as sub is worse than having to press ks every 20s and become blind

[muted birch]

Yup

Tho i saw on S1 on FB 14 i think

He had really wonky talents

With darkbrew

And goremaw

Besides he played reall well and toped the mettwr by a head atleast

[kind bluff]

tips on cauldron?

[muted birch]

Dont die to shit on ground

[random hare]

bruh

@tepid trellis

look at boss dmg

??????????????????????????

im 668 equip

how is he doing more dmg

bro sub sucks on st man holy fuck

[hoary sun]

sub sucks at everything

[random hare]

@leaden prairie

[hoary sun]

ez

[random hare]

this is fucking depressing bro

[wispy bolt]

when’s the next BP buff coming

Or better yet BP removal

[wet lava]

Which flask do you guys use for m+?

[swift tinsel]

Chaos, but you can use whatever between that, mastery and vers

the difference is usually very minimal

[wet lava]

okay okay ty

[muted birch]

When you're sad thaht your Claas got the short end of stick, eat papita.
It wont change the balance, but you will eat something

[plush roost]

insane uptime

and we wipe to colors

notlikethis

[muted birch]

Fatesctibe returnrd ?

[plush roost]

boss has been slain

sprocket downers

[muted birch]

Wtf

16 in such color ?

XD

[plush roost]

oh that was all rogues

[plush roost]

there u go

[muted birch]

Wth

Warcraflogs tripping

[plush roost]

nah i was just looking at front page:

[muted birch]

I should have been asleep alrdy

XD

[thick cedar]

you guys putting embellishments on neck or boots?

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

It doesn’t matter. You can buy boots. Necks don’t exist for sub.

[thick cedar]

craft boots you mean ?

[lilac stag]

No. Purchase them. BOE

[muted birch]

Craft in slot you wont have your atata

Stats

[thick cedar]

and upgrade to 665?

[muted birch]

Like wrists

Gloves

[lilac stag]

Boe boots go to 678

Neck doesn’t have any option for sub so it’s a good long term craft

[thick cedar]

yeah ive got that 675. Boots are 400k for 655 on my server.

[muted birch]

Darkcleft is decent

Crit/vers

[lilac stag]

It’s not vers mastery

The crafted is better

[muted birch]

Yup not optimal

[lilac stag]

So why are you arguing ?

[muted birch]

Not arguing

Saying its decent

[lilac stag]

It’s not optimal for sub. No point in taking it from vault

[muted birch]

Ah vault

[lilac stag]

675 is crafted.

[muted birch]

Y

[lilac stag]

wtf would I care about heroic items sans HoC

[muted birch]

I went for chest myth

Tooday, since its was my weakest spot

[wicked urchin]

stix as melee is fucking agony

[nimble briar]

anyone have a good shadow techniques WA?

[lilac stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[lilac stag]

most of the packs have something

[mystic minnow]

anyone else ever get punched in the face when the tank pulls the boss while you have stealth, shroud, and tricks up?

[lilac stag]

Tank needs to be closest

otherwise you may get run over

[lucid jackal]

gally 14%

[kind bluff]

Mythic?

[bleak night]

his guild has been progging normal for a while now

im really proud of how far they've come though

[short radish]

any pull is the pull

[kind bluff]

Some ppl still on heroic haha

[remote rapids]

so mythic reverb mythic it is CDs on 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc adds?

[rocky ocean]

whats the malfunction chance in the engi helmet?

[tribal blade]

bres is now a consumable you can make/buy

[rocky ocean]

Im using the healthpot one

[tribal blade]

prob low to none if you are eng

[lucid jackal]

Dies tomorrow

[edgy zenith]

are you on mugzee?

[lucid jackal]

gally

[edgy zenith]

you play Sub on Mugzee or just go Sin?

[lucid jackal]

Sin is like

200x better than any rogue spec on that fight

[edgy zenith]

you think so?

[lucid jackal]

I'm very much in the camp of "Rogue on a lot of fights does nothing, play whatever u want/base it on comp"

but yeah its not close

Spatter lets u hit goons in the cages

You hold DPS in p1

and u list p2 in execute

and u get 2 sets of deathmarks

[edgy zenith]

yeah but you have to hold damage on the goon anyway

for the people inside

[lucid jackal]

Okay then ignore the entire part about spatter

You hold DPS in p1

and the fight has a hard enrage

Where u lust in execute

Sub does like 2.2 intermission/p2 to mugzee

sin very easily does 2.7

and the boss has a hard enrage

There is just 0 reason to play any other spec than sin on mugzee m

Sin takes 0 skill and 0 gear as well it's so free

[edgy zenith]

true

[lucid jackal]

Like sin is so good on that fight I think u can very easily play double rogue on that fight

And it's just objectively correct

Double sin double arms core

[heady wedge]

Hey all, new to sim’ing… was looking through APL and it’s relatively simple and no way optimized to pump MAX numbers… the wowhead rotation guide has much more complexity… so, the idea of simming is essentially to see which piece of gear alters your damage the most, not necessarily “what is my max dps”?

I initially thought I could just read the APL for the absolute max DPS algorithm of “if X, Y, and Z and b > a cooldown, then symbols”, but it seems more of just a baseline. I could have sworn I seen a different sim at one point that went a good bit more in-depth in terms of algorithmic processes as above.

[tepid trellis]

[lean arch]

Hey y’all is there any tool like an Addon or WA that shows when to burst on sub bc I think I’m struggling understanding the windows

Or even like in dungeons too sometimes?

Sometimes I pop my shit and then get a mechanic idk if like ppl use anything to determine that or just have the knowledge of when and when not to

[tepid trellis]

U mean looking at boss timers?

[lean arch]

Ig?

Is there a preferable addon/wa for that?

[tepid trellis]

Big wigs

[hexed sluice]

Nailed the positioning on sprocket to get launched right to every spot he jumps too on our kill

[teal coral]

Sims are not meant to be like a TAS or absolute perfect robotic play, that would actually make them less accurate models of gameplay and do nothing but warp the results away from realism. We use sims not only to make informed gear decisions but also research rotational changes depending on the situation.

There’s plenty of niche things that could be added to an APL that might trigger on an edge case once every 20 iterations when you have a prio target + 4 adds and >1.35 symbols charges or whatever inhuman logic you could imagine, but that doesn’t create any actionable change for players, doesn’t change talent recommendations, doesn’t change gear recommendations, and ends up making the whole APL way more difficult to maintain and manage. There’s just simply no reason to code the sims like that

Basically every APL for every spec is frankly already fairly complex and able to handle a wide variety of situations quite well

[brittle echo]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[lean arch]

I heard bigwigs was like dbm, should I have both or just big wigs?

[tepid trellis]

just one of em

[tall girder]

I think having both would be kinda

[rocky ocean]

Bigwigs drove me crazy because it announces every small stupid ability

[bleak night]

I mean you can customize that stuff

[rocky ocean]

You mean manually turn off sound for like 50 abilities?

[bleak night]

That’s definitely hyperbole but ok

[crystal kraken]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

most of em are turned off by default

if you want countdown and shit, you need to add em yourself

[vale pine]

will do later, i got hints about improvements of the moneytization changes leaked before so did know it won't be bad

[vale pine]

will probably play him a bit later today

[vale pine]

A new card game, somewhere in between a auto battler (autochess, tft) and HS battlegrounds, backpack battles is comparable to a degree too.
Its f2p, even though be warned has a very high learning curve, Can register your account on their website > The bazaar <.

[vale pine]

Its not as black and white. The apl is basically the rotation, but as whispyr mentioned its entirely possible that some edge cases exist. You can experience what i mean by just running quick sim a few times, the rotation you see is one exact iteration of the sim and not a averaged out one so you can often find small details that are not 100% perfect.

The way its utilized, and why its so good for min/max is that you can alter the simulation to test rotational changes or find out how bad something is. A few examples i can give you are:

• Working with @tepid trellis to test out how much of a damage loss it is to play transmitter incorrectly
• Testing out Find Weakness based optimization for aoe - Reference
• Working with @hazy breach to find improvements for Shuriken Tornado (eliminate edge cases, i found out using it on low targets as a filler is worth it again) - Reference

So basically, simulations can be a powerful tool to help you find out how to optimize your output.
And there is another benefit for it, you can also compare how much its worth to optimize.

E.g. we know due to simulations that using backstab in shadow dance is only 0.5% dps increase, and as low as 0.2% without the season 2 tier set. Doing the simulations also gives a lot of extra information. To stay with backstab in shadow dance, it becomes damage neutral once you reach 6-7 targets and the most important time to do it is during flagellation/blades, means missing it outside of these cooldowns is not a big deal and won't rly change your output.

However, one important thing is, that not everything thats good for dps needs to be something you do in game.
Even the best players often skip out on one very small optimization because of the low impact of it. The backstab in dance is here another very good example, as we used it during DF too in some seasons and some of the top players opted to not do it because of the low damage impact.

I mention this because people watching streamers often ask them why they run different talents or not apply a certain optimization. Which btw. is perfectly fine and nothing either theorycrafter or streamer should be annoyed about. It shows the system working well, when people are informed enough to make such decisions.

Towards real world application, the main motivation for simulations is always gear comparisons.
And both patchwerk (with adjusted fight length typically for progress/farm), multi target simulations and dungeon slice are great for gearing purposes.

But Simulations can also be great to compare talents, but you might need to put in some effort.
I give one example, Dungeon Slice shows currently dark brew as the strongest talent setup in simulations, but you will typically play The Rotten instead.

But this isn't as obvious why, but having discussions like this is interesting for everyone involved.
Basically, the difference comes down to The first dance. The mentioned talent can be somewhat reliably triggered in dungeons but applies typically few times duing a Dungeon Slice simulation.

This means we have a small edge case where this knowlage is important, knowing this means you can go to warcraftlogs and see how frequently it triggers during a key and after that estimate with a simulation the rough damage impact. We did, and the conclusion is that its almost always worth to use it.

Talent setups have different amounts of trade offs. E.g. Switching one talent can be pricier for one talent setup than for another. This is the important thing for The first dance.

I can show you the simulations because i did it last weak, but if you contrast the two talent setups with each other on different simulation setups, you will see the following (the difference highlights the damage win/loss with the first dance talented, tho the simulations include talent setups without if you follow the link)

Diffrence - Rotten/brew tfd:
Single Target -0.8%
Three Targets +1.7%
Five Targets -0.2%
Eight Targets -0.8%
Dungeon Slice -1.2%

Gathering this knowledge, we learned about strengths and weaknesses of both talent setups.
We learned that Dark Brew is the stronger talent if you don't play with The first Dance.
We learned that Dark Brew has a higher trade off if you want to play The first Dance, which makes The Rotten the stronger option in that case.
And we learned which talents are the best to switch away when changing between the two:

• For The rotten: Weaponmaster -> The first dance
• For Dark brew: Shuriken tornado -> The first dance

I hope my "wall of text", was somewhat informative, and wasn't too much redundant information for you (or others reading). But if you want to discuss the topic further, always happy to do so.

[wet lava]

do u switch between atrophic and mind numbing depending on key

talking in 12+

[vale pine]

you typially just stick with atrophic in higher keys

[cloud rover]

I have to say

Playing 1 day with HoC instead of Transmitter

really changed my world of sub

its so much more chill

Those 400K i paid for the heroic HoC paid off

[keen dome]

It's such a better trinket to play with because you just push button win prizes

[vale pine]

yes

tbh

i only had a few pulls after getting HOC

and it mae me nervouse, because i was so used to look at the weakaura and hope to get a good task

[cloud rover]

Yes

Also i think its a dmg gain for me

Beause most of the times, i got the buff half way through the first dance

and sim got the Buff before the first Sectech right?

[wild vine]

Glad you got it by now.
I got mine 2 weeks ago, got a 2nd one last week with the heroic chest and my mage already got one aswell, but only normal track

First time I actually was lucky

[cloud rover]

My Mage has a normal one aswell

Now i just need to be good at mage

(Im really bad)

[wild vine]

Fire usually isnt really hard

Just takes a tiny bit of practice and you are fine

[cloud rover]

Well i didnt look up what to do on guides

im just vibing

and failing

Like im 663 with my Mage

and parse Blue

(im raidleading my fun Heroic raid with my mage tbf)

[mighty citrus]

exactly this. for sprocket i got pvp trinket and i improved automatically after a few pulls

not thinking about minigame anymore makes a big difference for me

yes this may come down to my own being bad, but still maybe there are others who feel the same. so even without hoc, get pvp trinket, its really low effort

[cloud rover]

On sprocket monger

Have to Do the Extra mental gymnastics

Planning how to stand for Transmitter spawn

[wild vine]

Just play frost if you raid lead

Ez brain off

[cloud rover]

No

I want jumping

And fire

[brazen stone]

who r the sub rogue key streamers

to watch

or youtube

[dreamy badger]

They all swapped to assa

[hazy breach]

They swapped to unholy

[dreamy badger]

To real

[fringe palm]

New rogue spec?

[brazen stone]

isnt sub better in keys

Sin single target so bad

[wild vine]

I knew it was the end if kush swapped to unholy

[wild vine]

Its decent

[wild vine]

Different strengths

[alpine wraith]

hey maybe he wants some big weekly keys

you are welcome to watch my +10 rookeries 8 times a week

[brazen stone]

Feels nice not having to worry about restealths

and not being a sandbag on bosses

[keen dome]

high5, same

[alpine wraith]

well tfd is very cool

[cloud rover]

Im doing more dmg on my Enhancer with 10 ilvl less

[keen dome]

Haha

Enhance does so much damage.

Watching my extremely good buddy who plays at a level I could never attain do more AoE blasting on their 634 Shammie than I did at 664 was really funny.

[cloud rover]

when you pop bloodlust

and the only thing you do

is spamming lava lash

[hazy breach]

Last season you didnt even touch lava lash

[cloud rover]

true

[fringe palm]

Somehow only pressing stromstrike was more fun than only pressing lavalash

[keen dome]

well lightning is just cooler than fire

[heady wedge]

Wow, I appreciate it! Great information. I was confused— I was reading your guide and configuring weak auras to meet all of the criteria you mention in terms of timing cd’s (for example, since I’m new to sub, I want my weak aura to show me when it’s optimal to cast dance/symbols between CD’s while still allowing me to have dance/symbol charges when CD’s are ready again), and then I thought to look at the APL. The APL was similar, but much less advanced than your guide… I usually play arcane mage, and it was the same—APL didn’t capture all of the small intricacies of the rotation for min/maxing.

Again, appreciate your reply and work towards the guide!

[vale pine]

[cloud rover]

Pressing Fire Nova and doign big AOE DMG was the most fun on Enhancer

change my midn

[mighty citrus]

maybe stupid question, but how do i read this graph properly?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/42?sample=7

[cloud rover]

[fringe palm]

Be aware of what bosses have a ton of kills and change how good certain specs look. ~95th percentile is prob a good measurement preferably check the boss you're interested in and not overall. Overall is just so blitz knows what to buff and nerf

[mighty citrus]

but how do i read it like. outlaw is overall performing best (with having in mind what you just said)

[keen dome]

I forget if it's distinctly a boxplot or not but

Effectively: https://www.simplypsychology.org/wp-content/uploads/box-whisker-plot.jpg

So you can see that although Outlaw is at the top, their median is lower than Assa's

[mighty citrus]

thanks

and this score on the x axis

how is this calculated

do we know?

its the parse? like 95%

= score 95

[keen dome]

I'm actually not sure because it doesn't go from 0

[mighty citrus]

this is my problem as well 😄

so if anybody knows how to read this properly. enlighten us please 😄

[keen dome]

Outlaw's outlier is really funny to me. Just so far out tehre

[hazy breach]

If you change it to any specific percentile its easier to parse

(as in its easier for you to read it)

[cloud rover]

WEll the people playing outlaw on Mythic

are usually pretty good

so it makes sense

If you are bad on outlaw, you wouldnt go into mythic with it

you would spec sub and sin

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely

I just love outliers in general.

They are always really fun

[fringe palm]

That argument doesn't really work if you're looking at 99th percentile. Outlaw performs best on first boss and by a huge margin on Stix because of cleave. Most parses are from those early bosses so outlaw looks very strong in overall statistics

[cloud rover]

Also true

[fringe palm]

It's by far the best performing spec on Stix, while beeing the worst rogue spec for boss damage

[cloud rover]

Not to mention the pain

getting 5 buffs pressing ar

and getting a ball

right after it

[alpine wraith]

just dont get a ball the whole fight

big parse

meanwhile me getting it 3 times

green

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-shrug-idk-iono-hands-up-gif-15210906834050864756

[serene tapir]

Is 14k different between ML trinket 678 vs 665 trinket from Flood anything I should consider? Or just go with flood even tho it sims lower? 🤔

[wheat edge]

I am holding cds until 38 seconds as assa and if I get first ball I want to blow up

[alpine wraith]

azerokk is a very swingy trink

so if it procs on cds it is big

if it does not it is aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[jaunty heath]

Embrace the gamble fully hacha

It’s thematic

[hazy breach]

Ive looked at some numbers guys, if they buff BP and we end up playing deathstalker for some reason its completely joever

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

bp in st is a threat

[hazy breach]

thats not the only one

Sectech and to some extent ruptures on bigger aoe are in the danger zone in that situation too 💀

[alpine wraith]

ah yea deathstalker with db rupture rizzling

i can see the dark days

or maybe just go ogre mode and slam bp

[hazy breach]

Yes, the latter is what im referring to, bp is close to just doing more than rupture

[alpine wraith]

ah yea that seems like the oh no

[gritty gorge]

Do you think sub is up for some tuning? I guess there will be no class tuning for a while

[alpine wraith]

we are like midcore rn

chances we get buffs are low but if they revert some nerfs it would be cool

or fix some more bugs

that has been more of the thing lately

[hazy breach]

If they do tuning and sub does not get touched (especially for m+) i would be surprised

[cobalt edge]

Could anyone point me to what i did wrong this encounter? My performance was really subpar, meanwhile during the fight i thought my execution was good
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pXrKTtnamWRgC6bx?fight=66&type=casts&source=171&view=timeline

[hazy breach]

One thing is that you were on the opposite side of the person logging

[cobalt edge]

that's a factor? XD

[hazy breach]

Thats your sectech when the logger is more than 100 yards away

[alpine wraith]

next time log yourself

just in case

[hazy breach]

Because for some reason blizzard cant be bothered to correctly assign the pets spawned from sectech to the rogue and it bugs out if the logger is more than 100 yards away

!Mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[cobalt edge]

damn, thanks!

[vestal escarp]

Ok but why

Would they ever buff BP

It's already overtuned

[keen dome]

villany

[alpine wraith]

they will buff builders again

and then we will hit filter

[keen dome]

They'll buff shroud move speed.

[alpine wraith]

they will triple goremaw dmg and let it cleave

some weird witch hunt

make it go from 300 to 900% ap like in legion

some snapper 17m+ hits

[keen dome]

haha

[cloud rover]

Any Gloombladers?

Season 2 DF?

Anyone?

[worn ivy]

I rerolled outlaw for stix

Probably better on that fight

[jaunty heath]

It’s better at killing mobs that shouldn’t need to be killed in the first place

So ye if your guild decided hyenas don’t exist you’ll see big numbies

[tawny elbow]

does anybody know if there is a bug where you would loose your winning streak stacks whenever shadowdance ends?

[wet lava]

How would deathstalker sub even work i just started sub this szn so only play trickster would u just spam storm bp in anything more then 3 targets lol

[hazy breach]

Nop

[wet lava]

Cuz no nimble flurry

[hazy breach]

Youre likely just casting your last eviscerate right as shadow dance ended, rather than inside

[leaden prairie]

thats why you always log yourself

[tawny elbow]

hmmm 🤔

me and my friend are trying to figure out, but he dosen't recall using evis right after it ended

[hazy breach]

if you look at the log i'd very much guess that the eviscerate he thinks is inside dance is casted like 8.1 or 8.2s after he casted dance, aka just as it ended

A lot of people arent getting their 8 globals of dance

[tawny elbow]

i guess so, would he want to press any finisher outside of SD instead of evis?

[hazy breach]

No

[tawny elbow]

aight

so its just RNG

cant really do anything about it?

[dusty totem]

U can make sure u don't start dance mid gcd

[tawny elbow]

mid gcd?

[dusty totem]

Wait i might be wrong is dance not off gcd?

[wet idol]

Never thought about that

[tawny elbow]

dance is in GCD as it gets reduced with x seconds for x CP

[hazy breach]

Dance is not on the global cooldown

[tawny elbow]

oh x)

[hazy breach]

So yes you want to cast it right before you press your first spell in it, not 0.8s before

[tawny elbow]

aight

[hazy breach]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[stone robin]

so shadow blades have to be pressed before the sec tec?

[hazy breach]

it doesnt matter if its before or after

[stone robin]

ah okay ty <3

[gleaming geyser]

It doesn't? So the cast of sec tec can go off before you buff yourself and you get the buff? o.O

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tawny elbow]

👋

[hazy breach]

The clones, aka most of sectechs damage, happens 1s and 1.3s after you press the button

But generally if you press it after it should be pressed like 0.8s after, otherwise the entire point of pressing it after (ie getting an extra global with blades later) is defeated since you can miss that extra global if youre not spamming enough

So its easier to just do it before, but in sims it doesnt matter

[final holly]

The main reason to do it would be if you have a shorter duration trink macro'd to blades and you were consistently missing the last hit, right?

[hazy breach]

This is just overthinking it

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[polar haven]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[dapper stirrup]

When did it change, that we dont use Vanish in our opener?

[solid lotus]

my paladin is telling me that him not holding threat of our warrior tank even with my perma tricks is my fault

[molten citrus]

with the new patch

the difference is miniscule either way

[fleet acorn]

i feel like suspicious energy drink is the best heroic trinket with house of cards in raid and m+ nothing is comparing to the double combo its insane

every sim i do it comes out the best

[molten citrus]

Drink is pretty good yep

[molten citrus]

Bro what? lol

[solid lotus]

yeah, lol

lmao even

[molten citrus]

Tricks doesn’t do that much

Like how could that be your fault

Tricks doesn’t do anything about your pallys threat

Just transfers yours to the tank

[remote shuttle]

I stream on tw.tv running 13s and 14s atm (u can find link on my discord badge)

[molten citrus]

Which iirc does not do much in the way of keeping threat off anyone else

[fleet acorn]

anyone else using this m+ build in 14-15+ keys and holding vanish to heal ? 😄

[autumn flame]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

Peak rogue

[leaden plover]

When we getting that fat rework for sub?🥲

[lilac stag]

2/3 of us will probably be dead before that fully happens

[vernal junco]

just bring back dust lol

[lilac stag]

Unless they’re going to fix CDs, no

[dusty totem]

We just need ptr burst back they should never have nerf tier set we where guchi

[alpine wraith]

ptr was funny

classic give then take and it will be worse than not giving at all

[lilac stag]

Nerfed? You mean perma 10 stack?

[alpine wraith]

guess he meant when the tier set had real numbers

[dusty totem]

Yub

They could prob have given the aura buff and not nerfed tier and we would still not be top dps on many bosses

[honest brook]

guys why my trick does not stay on target for 1 hour? is it bug or what

[lilac stag]

You have to hit something when you cast it

[solid lotus]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[remote rapids]

Any quick info or guide for mythic reverb? Just when to send cds and stuff

[hazy breach]

Evasion his amplify cast and you can stay in

For maximum barrel damage delay first flag+blades until 13-14s

[tribal blade]

don't send cds till around 14 seconds into the fight

[remote rapids]

Ok I wasn’t sure if it was hold until first set and then 3rd set

[solid lotus]

why are we using black powder in ST

is it to sit on coup de grace?

[tribal blade]

you don't want to hold too long or your 2nd set will get cut off by the intermission

[remote rapids]

So just delay cds for a few and after that they should line up from there for the rest of the fight without having to hold anymore?