you silly gamer
#subtlety
azure thicket
drifting fable
hazy breach
Have fun needlessly PTSD jumping after pressing cooldowns for a while 
deep yew
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
my jastor is waiting
chrome palm
why is every top log for stix chinese
alpine wraith
they sell parses
twilit phoenix
why is every top log for stix chinese
secret chinese tech we don't have access to
patent crystal
Less people doing dmg to adds = you can do more
swift tinsel
Have fun needlessly PTSD jumping after pressing cooldowns for a while <:kek:3655...
I still do this lol
vestal escarp
Have fun needlessly PTSD jumping after pressing cooldowns for a while <:kek:3655...
I still press my transmitter bind and shift mt character 45 degrees
And then i realize....
hazy breach
The orb you really wanted was inside yourself all along
supple verge
Collect or stand on circle
keen dome
Fated but they didn't put imp telephone in the season because the imp quit.
jaunty heath
God the first few house of cards pulls I looked and felt like a monkey
Chasing nothing
swift tinsel
white hazel
on rik reverb is it good to delay cds on pull so they line up better for the barrels? and if so can u give me an estimate as how much?
left ledge
I’m sticking with the OG trink
left ledge
on rik reverb is it good to delay cds on pull so they line up better for the bar...
After first amp drop
alpine wraith
on rik reverb is it good to delay cds on pull so they line up better for the bar...
14 secs
left ledge
Or that, I can’t count
white hazel
okay thanks ill try to keep that in mind
azure thicket
if it was me i would go to group barrel and help burn it
explain that dps cooldowns are better spent on boss so enrage doesn't enrange and kill the raid
or chisel 1st barrel and swing on distant and like make it count cause intermission is coming up 🙂
young roost
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
!dino
vale pine
!t-rex
wicked joltBOT
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vale pine
!dino
wicked joltBOT
🦕
fickle mason
Does sub damage to party still work? the 5%
vale pine
Does sub damage to party still work? the 5%
people misstaken that one
the thing that works (and still works) is the no parry chance
so you essetially supply your entire raid with a anti parry raid buff
twilit phoenix
can we add a goatse ascii command?
vale pine
no
vale pine
i had to google it
twilit phoenix
damn fuu my bad king
alpine wraith
a bit of regret for sure
keen dome
can we add a goatse ascii command?
lmfao oh noooo
scarlet gull
!wa
wicked joltBOT
alpine wraith
happens
real panther
happens too often if you ask me
alpine wraith
as other specs become better many good players go to them
real panther
player that follow the meta go to them. "good" doesn't mean that imo
vale pine
a bit of regret for sure
i had some eye-bleach ready, so not a big deal
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
hoary lotus
where symbols macro
alpine wraith
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
hoary lotus
this just makes it so I can't recast
am I missing something
like the delay is longer than 2 seconds
hazy breach
Its 2 seconds from when you last pressed the button
So if youre spamming it you will never recast, but if you just play naturally its ifne
hoary lotus
👍
worthy relic
no troll channel names this time?
alpine wraith
this year is just chill
real panther
the thing that works (and still works) is the no parry chance
wait, fazed no parry thing works on the whole raid? The wording in the tooltip is terrible if it's the case
vale pine
^ it is a spell flag problem that exists since beta
so while its probably not intentional, it works like it
but people don't bring sub rogue for it even when knowing
so its not like a big deal
deep yew
how good is ravenous honey buzzer guys? feels weird to use
short aurora
Guys
Do i send a Coup before i go into dance + sod?
Otherwise i lose the 2 Stacks, no?
hazy breach
You should send coup on cd, the only exception is if you have like 15-10s left on flagellation
celest night
!up
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
Then you can hold off
hazy breach
No?
short aurora
You should send coup on cd, the only exception is if you have like 15-10s left o...
Thank you nonetheless
hazy breach
Like ye you might waste one of the hits from disorienting strikes
But buffing your flagellation finishers by 15% from 5 flawless stacks is worth it
short aurora
hazy breach
Like if you do the opener correctly, and then do it again 90s later
Youre pretty much 85% there in terms of sub performance
alpine wraith
and use 8 globals in dance
you would be surprised
how hard it seems if you look at many plces
hazy breach
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
short aurora
Ye i mean i got the basics down on 85avg
But i want to squeeze everything out from what i can do
Like of course when killtiming is cursed you wont have insane log but i want to do everything i can to improve
Since sub was always my weakest spec
zenith hollow
How big of a dps diff is it to not backstab after dance?
vale pine
0.5%
iron moon
Guys, kick question. I see a lot of outlaw rogues in high m+ content.
How far is frm subt?
small hemlock
How big of a dps diff is it to not backstab after dance?
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
small hemlock
makes it easier
just praying i get HoC tomorrow i See bee ayy with transmitter now
slate marlin
im 100% sure im getting a myth track signet and i will take it and play assa 😦
bleak night
just play both 4head
slate marlin
i play both on raid
small hemlock
how many stacks of danse am i aiming for
red vortex
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
how many stacks of danse am i aiming for
Not something you should be thinking about
small hemlock
Not something you should be thinking about
ok cool
novel plaza
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
dense mountain
when cloak is off cd
hoary lotus
lmao
quaint lodge
itmay sound like a joke but thats actually when i do it LMAO
hoary lotus
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique```
why doesn't this work consistentlyLikely because you havent put it on your stealth bar
solemn creek
Did u test on a dummy?
deep yew
its probably just range
dense lichen
Are you pressing it in between GCDs?
Because cold blood will activate before SecTech in that case
solemn creek
Like macro either work or it doesnt
plush roost
when are you guys pressing flag on 2nd boss rookery
I chase boss in the air and shadowstep to my healer before he lands
Anything for those 2 sweet globals
pulsar hemlock
zenith hollow
!bs
gotta hit the dummy i already have muscle memory of my current dance rotation without it lol old brain
pulsar hemlock
honey buzzer angle, right?
lucid jackal
Do u have house of cards
last gate
why no one using subt on sub?
lucid jackal
why no one using subt on sub?
Cuz it's bad
last gate
should i insta cd?
plush roost
should i insta cd?
You should unironically read a guide
last gate
You should unironically read a guide
Agreed
fallow bone
What spec would you all say is better at target swapping assuming no cooldowns used
lucid jackal
Assuming no cooldowns? Outlaw by far
fallow bone
My guild has the worst target swap comp and theres a fair bit of it in mythic, trying to decide what i should send spec wise
I think im too fucking old for outlaw tho
steady timber
Ho might be nice for you
raven maple
Anyone know why Ravenous Honey Buzzer is A tier trink for sub in wowhead and Signet of the Priory is C tier even though Signet sims higher?
fallow bone
like the new outlaw spec?
paper iron
sub is nice in raid since you often use your dances on add spawns
in lot of fight if not all
so
teal hemlock
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fallow bone
Ive tried it, its definitley my favorite iteration of outlaw in a good while but its still fast compared to the other two
lucid jackal
what fight r u even talking about
fallow bone
we just started stix and the amount of people who can swap for bombs is rough
3 fire mages etc
magic laurel
yeah im simming for sprocket mb
hazy breach
Idk looks like
magic laurel
i changed it to 5min doesnt change much sadly
hazy breach
bleak night
just be better ig
empty cargo
TFD over weaponmaster even in single targ build for raid??
empty cargo
But its fine if the fights are like 4 mins
weaponmaster is fine?
empty cargo
figured, ty
solid lotus
What’s the realistic difference between house of cards and pvp trinket?
I have not been lucky this season
hazy breach
like 1%
bleak night
hoc better but pvp easier to get
hazy breach
All trinkets suck ass this season
terse dirge
is thug hotline sim bait? kezan even on a 5 min fight simming less at same ilvl
terse dirge
yeah its better if i bump it up to 6 min fight.
hazy breach
Hotline is better on shorter fights
Since most of its power is tied to BL
Whereas kezan is the opposite
terse dirge
6 mins is long though even m sprocket is dying in less than 6 mins
solid lotus
Tyvm, love farming extra content
terse dirge
ig kezan would be good for last 3 bosses and dungeon slice
hazy breach
Dungeons its a bit iffy, depends on how you play around it
You lose 1 stack every 2 seconds out of combat
small hemlock
Does d slice break combat
terse dirge
damn that sucks
hazy breach
Yes
terse dirge
then it goes against first dance
small hemlock
Ty eleem
terse dirge
sometimes i will sandbag 1 or 2 secs to get the extra dance time
small hemlock
Going back to sub for a week lads wish me luck
charred nimbus
Should I be stacking up dance macabre before I secret tech?
small hemlock
So in the opener we get off 3 dances ye?
hazy breach
Depends on what you mean by opener
When your third sectech is ready or close to ready you dance again yes
small hemlock
Okay cool
charred nimbus
Okay cool, so the only macabre specific thing is hitting back stab once and then forgetting about it
small hemlock
Thank you for all this eleem
hazy breach
Hit backstab during premeditation specifically
tidal python
Play around sectech
charred nimbus
Ya
hazy breach
If you forget you dont want to do it later
small hemlock
Does secret tec shadowblades
hazy breach
yes
swift tinsel
the rng gods smile upon me this day, also got an energy drink to replace azerokk
bleak night
huge
short radish
is energy drink a delve trinket?
bleak night
Yup
long marlin
is there something wrong with the sims for zee thugs trinket? it sims 10k higher for me over the pacemaker, yet nobody on wlogs uses that trinket
grizzled wharf
So every single time i shadow dance with low combo points i should backstab as the first builder?
swift tinsel
is there something wrong with the sims for zee thugs trinket? it sims 10k highe...
They might not have it
short radish
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
grizzled wharf
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
vital flax
Whats the best race for sub if we wanna min max?
vital flax
Ight thanks
dusk comet
vulpera is the only correct rogue race
sturdy spindle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lucid lily
I'm free from transmitter prison, I feel like I've been training with weights on for several months
uneven snow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
edgy zenith
I actually don't know why Sub is so rng right now
sometimes you burst for like 6M on opener, other times you peak 5M
no idea the difference
tbh
radiant power?
tier set stacking faster/slower?
pure jay
can someone explain nimble flurry for me please? struggled to get it going on rik compared to our other rogue though replay looks similar enough
swift tinsel
manifestinggggggg
officially used up all my loot luck for the rest of the season today
molten citrus
officially used up all my loot luck for the rest of the season today
I hope I used up all my bad luck
swift tinsel
Got hero track HoC and Zee's today
molten citrus
So many sub 20 rolls today
warm marlin
I actually don't know why Sub is so rng right now
tier set stacks
timing of coup in cds (mainly first one)
alchemical chaos if you're playing that
swift tinsel
I reserved Zee's and was the only one so I didn't have to roll against anyone for it lol
swift tinsel
I hope I used up all my bad luck
just gotta manifest dude
warped ferry
There a way to alleviate bad kill times in raid? I can play perfectly but because of a kill time I miss out on a cd window and that gimps my entire parse, that fixable or just pure rng?
molten citrus
Depends on the raid group
How much gear people have, how well or bad they play, etc
warped ferry
Oof that sucks, especially on bosses you save windows on like rik or stix.
lucid jackal
sometimes you burst for like 6M on opener, other times you peak 5M
tier, coup procs
warped ferry
Does that mean sub will perform less overall as the season progresses?
lucid jackal
As kill times get faster, sub gets better
warped ferry
Oh I’m dumb, can you explain why? Or actually I’m not. The amount of uses get more effective the lower the kill time meaning less downtime overall yes?
iron obsidian
Oh I’m dumb, can you explain why? Or actually I’m not. The amount of uses get mo...
yes
warped ferry
Okay that’s something to look forward to then, really wanna get those parses up.
ebon tiger
bugged buzzer in pre season 1 was good fun
gloomy slate
2 house of cards drop
1 goes to war
1 to mage
31k dps for rogue, 7k for mage
🤔
icy mulch
rocky ocean
not even warriors smh my head
wispy bolt
how does trickster opener work on huge pulls m+. do i just never shadowstrike/eviserate/coup and just shuriken/BP every time?
edgy zenith
still generate with shadowstrike, but spend with BP at 7+ targets. still coup when you can
wispy bolt
ty
molten citrus
how does trickster opener work on huge pulls m+. do i just never shadowstrike/ev...
you cast storm once in dance on 7+ to spread FW
tacit aspen
does the rotten still have that weird bug from season 1 ss consumes both applications?
tepid trellis
2 lower
devout crown
does this look right?
that 678 cloak is a downgrade over my currently equipped 655 one?
small juniper
something is most certainly wrong if youre simming 1.7 mil on 4 minutes at 664 ilvl
devout crown
even with no buffs?
small juniper
never seen a no buffs sim
lean cradle
is 2nd dagger myth track not a big deal?
clever delta
damn raz wtf 668
im at 663 😄
damn look at this single target spare keys
vs kezan
lean cradle
would you say "play long game" and take cloak and hopefully ill drop dagger from rick reverb or just take dagger and go on with my life (eventually later on switch cloak for crafted and 2nd dagger with normal myth track dagger)?
umbral topaz
tepid trellis
would you say "play long game" and take cloak and hopefully ill drop dagger from...
u already got a crafted dagger?
then yeh id not take a dagger from vault
hoary lotus
can I live recycler
lean cradle
yeah i do have crafted dagger
hoary lotus
):
clever delta
Yeah cloak it
lean cradle
full vers cloak is not bad either i would say
hoary lotus
Yeah cloak it
cloak lets me liv?
clever delta
Ye
tropic river
Should i craft back or wirst for second piece of crafted gear?
swift tinsel
I went wrists/neck after dagger but you can pretty much do whatever
Might craft ring next if I can nab a good hero/myth track one
quiet gulch
hollow spear
my eyes are bleeding
hasty mirage
Guys, how good is the eye of lezan for us in m+?
thorn shoal
vagrant thorn
Guys, how good is the eye of lezan for us in m+?
I wouldn't use it, even in long raid fights it's only decent
tame stone
guys do you macro potion to your shadow blades?
chrome palm
I macro it to flag
cursive vapor
!up
wicked joltBOT
vagrant thorn
damn... lust is so useless for Sub.
2 minute fight, 8 targets
with & without lust, dps difference is 2% lol
every time someone pops lust I feel envy 😛
native zodiac
Not caring about haste also has big upsides though especially as a 1:30 class
vagrant thorn
explain 🙂
native zodiac
You don't care about pi or lust timing on any boss
vagrant thorn
true
twilit phoenix
the coolest thing about lust is summoning your GOONS
if you have the thugshaker trinket
native zodiac
Imagine bandit with our cds timings, you just wouldnt have cds for the lust
vagrant thorn
do they benefit ;O
twilit phoenix
do they benefit ;O
nah they just all get insta summoned when lust goes out
vagrant thorn
ooh ;D
lucid jackal
<@96834520417828864> rest in piss bozo
haughty totem
Is there an excel sheet with gear overview? Like BIs and second bis etc?
hollow spear
It's called raidbots
haughty totem
as an addon?
tropic river
I only have one fractured spark, should i not get my second this week? Only crafted 1 item so far. Is it possible to like miss a week. Or is there a catchup.
nocturne canopy
There is catch up
tame stone
do you guys use symbols before, or after the backstab in shadow dance
short radish
Is there an excel sheet with gear overview? Like BIs and second bis etc?
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
!bis
BiS recommendations should be largely ignored and you should always run sims for Top Gear and Droptimiser in Raidbots
haughty totem
Ah ok thanks
vale pine
how was your vault fellow subtlety enjoyers?
hollow spear
Sockety
fair anchor
Myth rookery vers mastery dagger or myth shoulders, i's say not bad, how is yours ?
Hmm, any idea why sims say Seaforium pacemaker has 98% uptime ? Its max 30s every minute right ?
alpine wraith
wrong buff
glass jasper
Got chest-upgrade from veteran track to myth track on hunter, myth track pyro needle on rogue. Happy vault-day as usual! 😄
Havn't had a single bad vault yet this season
vale pine
hmm my vault looks like a socket too
vital sage
hey guys just want to make sure like
I know there are pins
bis trinkets? house of cards+hotline?
or eye?
eye for longer fights
lucid jackal
Thug shorter, eye longer
vital sage
just asking so I don't get in trouble for the rc loot council in my raid team
lucid jackal
Thugs value is a lot in its lust value
Its mainly just HOC + whatever u can get ur hands on
vital sage
thanks for your fast replys
short radish
how was your vault fellow subtlety enjoyers?
got heroic HoC in my only heroic vault slot
i am free from jail
just did a key with it
i pressed flag
and no weak aura came up
and i just had a mental blank for a second
still in the jail
vale pine
got heroic HoC in my only heroic vault slot
nice, i rly need hoc
lucid jackal
Make sure to move ur macro to blades
short radish
i was || close to farming the pvp trinket
short radish
yeah i did that after the key
keen marten
I just swapped to sin for sprocket progress cuz I cannot be bothered to play the trinket mini game on that boss
tame stone
guys should i take it even when i have crafted cloak, seems dope
i can just craft neck with embelishment
velvet quarry
Anyone know overall uptime of Kezan in m+? Got that or myth signet which is <1% difference in DPS to Kezan in both ST and AOE
short radish
Anyone know overall uptime of Kezan in m+? Got that or myth signet which is <1% ...
i wouldn't take signet
kinda sucky
but then again
if you dont mythic raid
gleaming geyser
Myth legs so cant complain I suppose
short radish
i also wouldnt take kezan
velvet quarry
We are doing myth raid but only just started on prog and not sure how far we intend to go
worn cliff
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gleaming geyser
Thoughts on not casting evis outside SD? Saw some top logs doing so, only doing rupture/coup de grace as it wont remove the 4 set buff... is it worth it?
short radish
my feelcraft says if im on 6 or higher stacks and there's 10 seconds left on flag
to send ruptures
else idc
pretty sure stealthi plays without even tracking it at all
because ignorance is bliss
alpine wraith
playing around it overall is at most neutral
but if you know you can be unlucky just dont risk it
although usually you do get some stacks while dancing on cds
alpine wraith
yea it is what it is
limpid sage
alpine wraith
big legs
limpid sage
ye every time it's been sold to a dk for 450k
idk what it is about dks and having a shit ton of gold
keen dome
high5 shoulders day
cloud rover
elder pebble
double shitter trinket in m+ vault and currently still have 0 mythic pieces, and nothing to use my socket on 🙂 highly considering swapping to my monk instead
weary crag
what do i take
i have 636 shoulders
and a 652 seaforium that i need to replace
i can always get random shoulders tho
alpine wraith
you just linked an on use trink and shoulders only
wet lava
Out of curiosity ik it Sims higher but why does is vers/mast better then crit/mast , aren't big crits kind of what sub rogue about in their burst? Noob question but was wondering
hazy breach
Vers also makes your spells do more damage
glass jasper
And we are all just natty critters
We crit just by being skilled
No need for that %
alpine wraith
yea just crit LUL
wet lava
Very true okay tyvm
sinful marten
does shadow blades damage buff work on sec tech?
hazy breach
Yes
sinful marten
why do people use it after first sectech then?
hazy breach
The majority of sectechs damage happens 1s and 1.3s after you press the button
But nowadays it doesnt matter if you press it before or after, as long as you press it before the clones hit (ie the 1s) but before 11.1 you wanted to press after
clever delta
crit is devalued a bit by rotten and cold blood
Just don't play rotten if lot of crit 
Eleem did not bless my vault so no hoc no weapon
alpine wraith
i have so much mastery that even tfd sims better in st
get on my lvl
finality gamers too
clever delta
Damn
sinful marten
and why do people do shadowstrike flag rupture now instead of ss evis vanish ss rupture now did they change something so people do different opener now?
clever delta
I think I will buy boe myth feet's
alpine wraith
same
clever delta
I would like to buy head for cata but I think that will be little expensive one to do
alpine wraith
thankfully i dont run head so that works for me
clever delta
And I got random head with avoidance in vault so probably will use that
Did you craft head ?
alpine wraith
yea
clever delta
I was thinking about it too
clever delta
What do we even craft next week, I have feeling about ring
alpine wraith
depends for me it will likely be best or neck
clever delta
Since our rings are from m+
clever delta
How do you get it tgo
alpine wraith
oab
clever delta
Yeah but
sinful marten
isnt tierset head decent tho?
alpine wraith
tier head is not bad
clever delta
It's pretty bad
sinful marten
ye but like 1600 vers 400 haste
clever delta
It's low haste high vers ? I don't remember
alpine wraith
i just want to eventually craft engi helmet
sinful marten
and hands are like crit haste
alpine wraith
so that is the off piece
sinful marten
ye so why ever craft head?
clever delta
The thing is head is from hard boss and hands from easy one, you need to think about it too
alpine wraith
ye so why ever craft head?
engi helmet gives like almost 2k masteryt
and i like mastery
also crafted head had a good embellish
so at that time it is good and eventually i wanted to craft engi helmet anyway
fathom adder
alpine wraith
likely i will move duskthread to belt or something
alpine wraith
yea this week is upgrade one M item and 665 a hero track
or just savge
for craft+upgrade
im lucky i didnt have to use a cata charge this week
so i can save it for next
clever delta
What's up with those trinkets tho
I simmed fully upgraded spare keys and it beat pacemaker by like 12k dps
678 vs 665
alpine wraith
trinks are nothing crazy
678 remnant was also only 12k dps more than 665 mechanocore and 15k dps than my 658 drink
so likely i just upgrade shoulders to 678 then save 30 crests for next week
dapper stirrup
What is the dps diffrence for the embelishments?
I was thinking about switching to dusk, away from the lenses for raiding
plush roost
Negligible, sim it, like .5-1% or something like that
honest brook
guys any suggest for trinket if we unlucky on house of cart?
sinful marten
pvp trinket
i got jastor diamond from vault now im like 10k vers only
23k mastery
alpine wraith
big jastor
jolly pasture
which weapon embelish you should go for best sin and sub middle ground?
sinful marten
how do i sim more dps with mastery enchants when im 23k mastery and 10k vers xd
alpine wraith
circe scales a bit with mastery too
making it stay its welcome
but also vers should be close too
sinful marten
and btw is alchemical chaos simbait flask or not
what flask do you guys usualy use
or can i check what flask people use in logs somehow
hazy breach
Its not bait
sinful marten
it legit always sims the most for me on any class
sinful marten
how does it make pot better?
hazy breach
Pot gives you stats based on what flask you are not using
sinful marten
and isnt it pretty bad if it rolls haste for example
hazy breach
So if youre not using any stat flask (aka alchemical)
You get all 4 stats
Sure. but its also way better when it doesnt roll haste
Sim takes that into account so its worth on average
sinful marten
yeah ig
but is vers for example better for m+ then
since ur pot uptime is lower
and for dr
honest brook
pvp trinket
whats the name?
vale pine
i think you overthink it
# PvP
#trinket1=prized_gladiators_badge_of_ferocity,id=229780,ilevel=658```if you want to sim the pvp trinket put this below your /simc in top gear
vale osprey
eating QUITE well this tier
honest brook
```
# PvP
#trinket1=prized_gladiators_badge_of_ferocity,id=229780,ilevel=658```
fuu is gladiator ferocity best alternate of house of cart?
vale pine
yes
there are essentially 3 trinkets
house of cards - from raid
transmitter - from season 1
gladiators badge - from pvp
you always want one of them
and the 2nd trinket basically is a sim question
ornate lake
The darkflame cleft trinket slaps as per raidbot
5% over hc pacemaker
Tempted to pick up hc goon
remote shuttle
Which one?
ornate lake
Which one?
Which gives passive ago and does shadow damage at full stack
Darkness something
honest brook
Which gives passive ago and does shadow damage at full stack
i have mythic of it but in simc is so bad i dont know
honest brook
energy drink is a rly good one
that one from elite and delv?
small hemlock
am i incorrect in feeling that the real world performance of sub this tier is kinda far from sim performance? looking at logs its quite often sub is quite far down the list
vale pine
that one from elite and delv?
it is one of the best ones from delves, yes
and it competes with heroic item level trinkets and some mythic ones
a very good option
ancient whale
!wa
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
am i incorrect in feeling that the real world performance of sub this tier is ki...
How is that far from sim performance
I sim like 150-200k below most guild members
you are still good at bursting adds though
small hemlock
How is that far from sim performance
well because in sims sub is better than ass
but across the raid on most fights assa is higher
i understand thats due to cleave and other factors but idk
clever delta
Damn i never think of if should hold 4:40 set of cds for pot
leaden prairie
Sub does good things this tier
That sim can't do
Even if it might do less damage in logs
hazy breach
Padding on adds 
leaden prairie
It does better useful damage
I wouldn't call it pad when you are carrying the fight alone doing so
hazy breach
Idk its mostly the cc immune adds on bandit
leaden prairie
Broken spec no cap
leaden prairie
Idk its mostly the cc immune adds on bandit
I was also able to solo the last 2 sets of reel assistant
Also carried rik
And stix was very good
hazy breach
I mean sub is fine, but its just a worse version of monk for the most part
leaden prairie
That's like 80% of the bosses
leaden prairie
I mean sub is fine, but its just a worse version of monk for the most part
Sure maybe
If we are talking rogue tho
It's by far the best rogue spec for prog
En
Rn
Not on mug tho
Not on mug
hazy breach
Oh ye i agree
Its just not a rogue tier
Deserved 4% nerf before tier started on sub
Just like outlaw nerfs in hc week last tier 
leaden prairie
Its just not a rogue tier
if you have monks i guess
we dont
kinda a rogue tier to me
feels weird on mugzee for now but
p2/3 damage sin is kinda topping
@lucid jackal show boss damage after 5 min im curious
vagrant thorn
what's so special about mug that makes it bad for sub
vagrant thorn
so sub just has bad sustained dps
vagrant thorn
you gotta finesse it somehow like save cds for adds and stuff, and mug has nothing to cheat on
alpine wraith
they get 2 cds and also bl on cds
as sub you get 2 cds and that is it
because bl is cosmetic
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.no, there is just
mugzee has 3 parts imo
damage wise
killing goons
p1 damage check (not a check )
p2/3 damage check (this is bl in p2 with exec)
sin cna cleave the goons and is the only spec in the game with mages that can do so
its not much but its there
leaden prairie
and then well, sin does more p2/3 damaage
vagrant thorn
why is it the only one? that's what i do on my fury warr
leaden prairie
its exec + 2min30 phase + bl
leaden prairie
why is it the only one? that's what i do on my fury warr
you dont actually
leaden prairie
th wealls are los
alpine wraith
as for goons yea those are a special mechanic
vagrant thorn
oh cleave the walled adds you mean
leaden prairie
Sin can cleave cause spatter is around the boss
And that goes through cause boss hitbox is inside the cages
I think
Or.idk
alpine wraith
no sin can cleave because they have 2 hitboxes for spatter now
leaden prairie
It goes through anyway
alpine wraith
ss you can kinda cheat it
vagrant thorn
interesting
alpine wraith
if not bf or nimble would also go through
alpine wraith
funny how they always make assa just better
vale osprey
Also carried rik
big true on our 2nd kill I removed all of those barrels from the universe
vagrant thorn
to be fair for the longest time assa wasnt even a viable spec in keys lol, literally only in DF did they get aoe capabilities 🙂
it's crazy to even think about that
prior to DF playing assa in keys was as much trolling as tanking in classic on anything but a warrior
chrome quiver
fuck assa, boring as fuck dot spec
so for m+ you just want pacemaker as your 2nd trinket?
alpine wraith
mechanocore or suspicious drink are kinda the best
chrome quiver
I saw on blood mallet Azerokk's Resonating Heart was pretty good aswell, but dno
alpine wraith
unless you can get a good vault one
yea azerokks is fine too
even the darkness one is fine too
chrome quiver
mechanocore or suspicious drink are kinda the best
so these over pacemaker?
if you get a map ig
azure notch
Hello fellow sub bros, Im new here so pardon any noobiness. Question about trinkets, everyone and every website is saying eye of kezan is better, but my sims show me that zees thug hotline is better. How do I proceed?
alpine wraith
eye of kezan gets better the longer the fight goes on
most of the dmg trinkets are also fine
vagrant thorn
even 658 suspicious drink beats pacemaker for me
but who knows what the long term health consequences will be
vagrant thorn
which flavor is your favourite
azure notch
eye of kezan gets better the longer the fight goes on
Ye but like, will that apply only in mythic? Are the fights alot.longer there?
alpine wraith
Ye but like, will that apply only in mythic? Are the fights alot.longer there?
yes mythic fights can go over 7 mins
that is where eye shines a lot
but also keep in mind that it is also a rng trink
sometimes it stacks fast others it does not
also if you die it loses all stacks
worn ivy
Already gearing my dk
worn ivy
Its not worth playing rogue if its not subtlety
vagrant thorn
Its not worth playing rogue if its not subtlety
then why not play sub
azure notch
yes mythic fights can go over 7 mins
I see ty. Guess I'll have to try em both if I get lucky
alpine wraith
because it is worse than dk
torn storm
do we macro pvp trinket into blades?
alpine wraith
yea just slap it into blades
vagrant thorn
because it is worse than dk
but aren't we rogue mains here :p there's always gonna be something better
alpine wraith
well usually you will have people that play rogue because they enjoy even if it is not meta
but other people like to actually get invited to do things
unless they have a team
vagrant thorn
he's a rogue enjoyer
hazy yoke
It does better useful damage
for m+ too?
leaden prairie
no
hazy yoke
f
worn ivy
then why not play sub
All this effort visulizing all cd management adapting every key different cd management is not worth playing subtlety in keys. You do z dam
Anyway
vagrant thorn
All this effort visulizing all cd management adapting every key different cd man...
but you always played it anyway, whats different this season
why did you suddenly decide ENOUGH
worn ivy
If u do damage every 1:30 you should be really doing damage right
I said enought because i see 2
Button classes topping meters not even thinking about next pull etc.
vagrant thorn
tbh that's why I rolled Fury this season, but then suddenly.. it just started getting really boring, and I hopped on my rogue and it was like "whoa I love this" 😛
final holly
Overall Andy's are good and all but personally I love when my CDs are up and I can solo the toughest pulls in the dungeon with ease
vagrant thorn
but yeah so many things can go wrong with the burst windows.. on Fury you cant ever fail anything, it's a 100% idiot proof spec
worn ivy
Subtlety know as high burts potantial right ? If your really burst class no one should be competing you withing 10-15 opener. But imagime other classes doing bigger openers right now esp on aoe and they can sustain it.
gloomy loom
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
worn ivy
Im pretty sure even outlaw does more overall than sub rn
People pulling 6-7m overalls as assa some dungeons
Im also pretty sure developers are not care about m+ balancing if u do pve its all about raids unless something is really broken.
Its thr fact
Based
They buffed ele st and boomy can u imagine
They are clueless about m+
m+
Class balancing need to be like pvp balancing different catagory. And m+ should never force to do raids
hazy yoke
They buffed ele st and boomy can u imagine
surely this means they arent clueless
final holly
I think overall is a bit of an oversimplification especially in m+. If you're struggling to time a specific route then a bit more overall will help, but targeted burst and big boss damage up your ability to even complete the key or unlock different routes. I feel like you want to have a comp which is balanced with utility, burst and high overall dps. But that's just my intuition, I don't play at a high level
hazy breach
You generally just want the class that does the highest number
If its bursty, then you organize your pulls around the burst
hazy breach
If its not, then you route around that instead
hazy yoke
mf its your topic
cinder steppe
do we get raid buff %3 this week?
alpine wraith
next one
final holly
Thought we already got 3% 6% is coming up, right?
worn ivy
I need help with this stuation as a sub rogue @hazy breach For example in cinderbrew you did your burst and bombs spawned you need to hold your dance you know it but your group does not have the damage the kill the bombs if u press dance symbols your next burst window already ruined / delayed - if u dont press its wipe. What would u do ?
This im kinda of stuations i face everkey
Every key
hazy breach
I mean its better to fuck your burst window than to wipe
leaden prairie
Respec outlaw and ps them
leaden prairie
you dont need hands to play ho
worn ivy
Nono i mean acrobatic hands
worn ivy
Yeyey
leaden prairie
worn ivy
Used to hit from far away
leaden prairie
good times
leaden prairie
Outlaw was too op
worn ivy
Bladeflurry was op
That spell they nerfed it like 5-6 times
There was wits end
3x bte 2 ds
U only rolling if u had cp + cd on rtb
Now you play 100 apm and still do less than arms warrior
Does outlaw sims higher than arms warrior
I doubt actually
Which one better these days arms or furry ?
molten citrus
fury in ST, arms in aoe
vestal escarp
Outlaw was too op
can you ask for dice off global tytyxoxo
warm marlin
Sub does good things this tier
For sure the spec seems very good to me just single is a bit sad
But can’t do everything
iron fjord
alpine wraith
🐀
vagrant thorn
I need help with this stuation as a sub rogue <@212854714197344256> For example...
but don't you like the fact that you have this kind of agency at all? what if you were playing a spec that was powerless to take matters into their own hands and quickly kill something? 🙂
keen dome
Asking people to put a joke in their note to join your pug group is such a powerful, effective tactic. What a smooth group today.
spark dawn
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
vocal crypt
In a big pull 7+ mobs where you should bp is it worth to backstab for danse stack or just shadowstrike and then storm into bp ?
hazy breach
Its about the same
vocal crypt
kk ty
hollow spear
@leaden prairie how do you keep track of symbol charges in your wa?
leaden prairie
Wdym
muted agate
🙈
muted agate
god tier loot
leaden prairie
Same as dance
muted agate
this fucking dogshit offhand always drops every week!!!
tribal blade
what're we dooming about today
alpine wraith
i didnt get jastor in vault
swift tinsel
One of my cats puked on my shoes so that’s my doom topic
tribal blade
i didnt get jastor in vault
i'm writing a strongly worded letter to blizz for you
tribal blade
One of my cats puked on my shoes so that’s my doom topic
i'm writing a strongly worded letter to your cats for you
keen dome
I got shoulders, which was nice
then I led a very good heroic pug and got called many slurs by angry people
swift tinsel
I really can’t doom, I’m a ring away from being hero-track bis
tribal blade
I got shoulders, which was nice
i am not writing a strongly worded letter for you
swift tinsel
My loot luck yesterday was stellar
keen dome
I'm gonna catch up!
swift tinsel
Oooo that’s real spooky, I love it
keen dome
Should hit that today when I take shoulders to 4/6 I think
alpine wraith
think i wont be able to get 666 only upgrading 1 item
sad days
maybe if i buy the boe
iron fjord
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
I’ll be at the mercy of myth track m+ vault row rng for the rest of the season
And dinar
alpine wraith
same kinda
but you have to fins solace in the little things
like being able to get to 300% mastery again
jk corruptions are super underwhelming
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
swift tinsel
But on the plus side, this week's affix means over 150% mastery
swift tinsel
I haven't looked at what it hits when I have HoC and flag stacked
lilac stag
i am not writing a strongly worded letter for you
I got full on assa geared yesterday. Myth signet in vault, haste/vers boots & shoulders from raid. 
clear osprey
!wa
wicked joltBOT
lilac stag
accused of unethical dps on Vexie lol
paper iron
what do they mean unethical
it s litteraly blade flurry
it s the strengh of sub
are they dumbo or what
lilac stag
that was splatter, but no they're just joking
theyve been riding ouru mages to get better at fire, then looked at the pit mech dps lol
lilac stag
when are they supposed to be out ? was out doing dog events all week so no idea where patch stuff is
void ocean
hows that gonna work anyway, u get dinar and u farm upgrade through the raiding?
hazy breach
when are they supposed to be out ? was out doing dog events all week so no idea ...
They never specified anything more than saying "it felt more like a patch .5 or .7 thing" rather than it coming from renown
So possibly with .5, possibly with .7
lilac stag
so when people are bored and numbers are down lol
keen dome
when are they supposed to be out ? was out doing dog events all week so no idea ...
Yeah, no clue. I think they might give us one in .5 and another in .7 based on nothing but my rampant speculation.
hazy breach
Well the dinars are more of a "here you go if you got unlucky" type thing, rather than "here you go so you dont need to do it"
keen dome
The lack of any info does make me think they won't be in 11.1.5 at release.
void ocean
but took mythic seaforium
keen dome
I got mine with speed on it. Speed best stat.
hidden lynx
Gonna farm signet and reroll assa
void ocean
Im gonna lose my shit and just reroll pirate
hidden lynx
This is the way
hazy breach
do pvp for an hour or two and get the pvp trinket 
void ocean
and KS to death
hazy breach
Not quite as good as house of cards hc, but not far off
void ocean
Not quite as good as house of cards hc, but not far off
got that one on the first day it was posted here
lilac stag
heroic thumb dropped for us. ahoy time kekw
void ocean
unpleasant experience but worth
keen dome
I'm glad we'll have it as an option in S3, too.
For people coming back, or who missed the dinar.
void ocean
hows that gonna work anyway, u get dinar and u farm upgrade through the raiding?
any takes on this?
hidden lynx
That’ll be great. Before that time i will be beeriding into shadow blades. 50% chance of surviving mechanics.
keen dome
any takes on this?
dinar is bracketless gear I assume
So it'll be like DF S4 if you played, so 1/14 or 1/16
alpine wraith
yea it goes from normal all the way to full upgrade myth
warm marlin
any takes on this?
if it works like df s4: get dinar from raiding, has a special long upgrade track (14/14), upgrade all the way to myth 6/6 equivalent
alpine wraith
hust need the crests/valorstones
void ocean
I played on SL
dunno if the same mechanism
so in df s4 u'd first upgrade dinar all the way then get item?
alpine wraith
no you get the item then upgrade
same as sl
only diff thing is you cant upgrade tracks from normal or hc items like in hc
sick dagger
!wa
wicked joltBOT
void ocean
aye
lethal gale
Are we just macroing HoC to blades? my brain is actually broken not having to play transmitter anymore
hazy breach
yes
slate marlin
Is it better to focus adds receiving extra dmg or to cleave them? Specificaly askinf for Ml/psf
hazy breach
Is it better to focus adds receiving extra dmg or to cleave them? Specificaly as...
The amp only applies to that target anyway
Like if you strike the boss for 100 then nimble would do 120 to the add, but if you strike the add for 200 it would cleave 60 to the boss
So if the target needs to die asap swap, if not then dont
remote shuttle
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
nocturne rose
Does anyone know if "Geargrinder's Spare Keys" is actually as good it sims, or is it a bait?
sick jacinth
!wa
wicked joltBOT
brittle plinth
In a situation where we have two on-use trinkets (pvp/funhouse), I'd send second one before second sectech ya?
Hmmm actually it may not be off cd in that time
hazy breach
Does anyone know if "Geargrinder's Spare Keys" is actually as good it sims, or i...
Its fine
lilac stag
sim will show you, it's typically as soon as off trinket cd and to not interfere with HoC
hazy breach
Youre probably better of replacing the funhouse with quite literally anything else
But yes just use funhouse whenever its ready and line up pvp with flag
crystal bone
do we have an idea when .5 is coming?
vale pine
nope, but there isn't that much new stuff in .5
paper iron
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
slate marlin
Like if you strike the boss for 100 then nimble would do 120 to the add, but if ...
Ty. My confussion comes from cleave being a % of your dmg done
hazy breach
Ye whenever mobs have taken taken increases it usually only applies to them
Like you do 100 damage and cleave 60, but the mob that was supposed to take 100 damage has a 100% buff so it takes 200 instead, but that math is applied after you cleave
Not really intuitive but thats how it works
vale pine
u mean besides the sub buffs
haha true 
hazy breach
Works the same for assa with spatter. Hit boss for 100, a mob is in execute range so he takes 52 instead while the others that are healthier takes 40
narrow night
any of you using bubble wax for m+ or raid?
hazy breach
You can if you want to, sims pretty much the same as stones
But i just cant be bothered
narrow night
ok ty
fair anchor
Use it in DFC to confuse your group on 3rd boss 
hazy breach
Use it in DFC to confuse your group on 3rd boss <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
Too busy stunlocking my groups in mechagon by distracting the robots
clever delta
supporting blizzard with tokens to get ready for mythic boe
fair anchor
Too busy stunlocking my groups in mechagon by distracting the robots
Yeah this one is a banger as well
hazy breach
Peoples brains just melt and they stand afk forever and then move right as distract ends
crystal bone
supporting blizzard with tokens to get ready for mythic boe
you have earned the title trashmaster
clever delta
i did 🙂
pulsar hemlock
Is this accurate for this trinket to have this much uptime on a 5min sim?
Nvm
Wrong buff 
sly shore
pulsar hemlock
Thats fucking sick actually
old venture
~~Is this accurate for this trinket to have this much uptime on a 5min sim?~~
Honestly, that spell is great advice
pulsar hemlock
life advice, even
alpine wraith
yea dont pop too much
keen path
Am I just bad or is sub aoe dmg in mythic plus abit on the ehh side?
vale pine
Am I just bad or is sub aoe dmg in mythic plus abit on the ehh side?
you do good one during your big cd's but our damage falls off hard outside
so your overall damage will highly depend on how well the tank pulls around your cooldowns
keen path
Ive always played sub and my mate has always played feral and this season his just randomly pulling out like 20mil+ burst on big pulls, and finishing the dungeon like 20% above, if i have 4bil hes close to 5bil. Or is feral just cracked or something?