subtlety

[paper iron]

narnia barrels are casters job

[lethal yew]

Tell that to our casters. Specifically the last set before intermission.

[paper iron]

specially that one

but also

there shouldnt be assigned needed, everyone should be concerned by it

to give u an idea, that our rekill barrels damage, everything spawned so bad i couldnt really pad on them so i m giga low, but anyway, everyone s job if you re not sure

[sonic elm]

Haha, I wish. I was shadowstepping to the farthest barrels to help so that we don't wipe.

[lethal yew]

Yeah me and the other rogue were doing the same. Then shadowstepping to the safe pylon to night die

[paper iron]

u gotta do what u gotta do

but if 10 peoples feel concerned by the mecanic and will to switch

yea the boss will be 40s longer

but at least it s done

and your GM will be happy, more GDKP more loot for ya

[oak grotto]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[paper iron]

Tell them barrels count in logs, you ll see everyone switching

[lethal yew]

I mean it gives you a haste buff

[oak grotto]

Would it be possible to get one or two points in vigor without losing way too much?

[paper iron]

Its à weird question

U have way enough energy during cds

[solar glen]

Hey Just a Quick Question, im New on the Sub Role.
Is it like it feels, you do a big fckn damage and after this u Just do dmg like a Tank until ur big CDs are back on?

[oak grotto]

ye

[paper iron]

And u dont want any more énergy out of cds

[solar glen]

Thx ❤️

[oak grotto]

I'm mainly thinking if you can get tea somehow without losing a lot

[paper iron]

U can do some vigor sims but i would bet it highly sucks

U ll have to lose the whole supercharge stuff

Like some CN player do in m+

[hazy breach]

It would be CB youre giving up

Not supercharger

[paper iron]

And even so you wouldnt use tea for energy

[oak grotto]

I think it's the guide maid by @vale pine that describes Sub as "high highs during cooldowns and low lows outside of them"

[paper iron]

U would use tea with dance

[oak grotto]

Nah I'm thinking to go Tea for the burst

[paper iron]

So giga wasting energy

[oak grotto]

With the 20% mastery or whatever it is

[paper iron]

Hmm

[hazy breach]

Well youre already at like 150%+ mastery

[sly shore]

6% mastery

[shrewd shadow]

Only downside with tea is the auto consume it

[sly shore]

isn't it

it's PISS

[hazy breach]

So the mastery from tea only ends up being like 8% damage on your finishers or so

[paper iron]

I mean sim it, that would just replace the whone supercharge stuff

[lilac stag]

Tea has multiple downsides.

[shrewd shadow]

Dropping supercharger for tea seems like major smooth brain

[paper iron]

I would guess à 11% loss in st

[shrewd shadow]

But I could be wrong

[oak grotto]

Is there ever a time where you wanna go Vers over Mastery when it comes to enchants and sockets and so on

[shrewd shadow]

[oak grotto]

I know to sim it, but I'm thinking if there is a dropoff

[hazy breach]

So like, you could take +8% to 4 finishers in dance, or you could take CB which is like +70% to sectech (and also +2% crit in general)

[sly shore]

It's just looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist

[solar glen]

Yes. I actually feeling a bit bad in m+ while we pulling Mobs, i burst down CDs and on the next Group im just a Mirrorimage of Myself

[paper iron]

This does smooth up in higher keys

[oak grotto]

Cause I know stats have diminishing returns

[shrewd shadow]

I find myself doing that way to often, simming pointless changes for a problem that is due to behind the keyboard

[paper iron]

With propre CD management

[oak grotto]

So I'm wondering when Mastery has that for Sub

[sly shore]

ofc

but enchants and gems are probably within margin

[oak grotto]

Or is diminishing return on stats the same for every class

[sly shore]

such minor difference

[paper iron]

Its à 18 000 ish I think

[swift tinsel]

Was around 100% mastery where it started telling me to switch but the changes were extremely minor

[sly shore]

21000

[shrewd shadow]

Yeah I’d say around 8+ you always have cd unless the tank chain pulls into the old mobs constantly

[paper iron]

Can find the stats somewhere

[swift tinsel]

Diff 10% thresholds for diff stats

[paper iron]

I was thinking 14+

[twilit phoenix]

One of the things you learn playing sub, is that it’s not about player skill, it’s all about how much mastery you have

[oak grotto]

What addon is that

This is what I'm rocking

[shrewd shadow]

I haven’t done anything past a 10 yet due my core key group isn’t pushing that hard yet

And I’ll be damned if I do a 14 with pugs lol

[sly shore]

true stat values

but I mostly ignore it

it's for other classes that care about them

I just press beep boop robot

[autumn flame]

I would assume mastery is a bit better in m+/cleave but then again some free Dr is always welcome

[shrewd shadow]

I mean if you spam feints like I do you constantly have a 40% AE Dr with a 90% up time

[oak grotto]

Well yeah but doesnt hurt to have

[paper iron]

Everyone does his things no judgement :3 but i just saying since i play with a blaster group, in 9-10 i already cant fit à 2nd sectech in my cds most of the time. So i m biaised compared to ya

[shrewd shadow]

[autumn flame]

I mean even I 12s packs just gets obliterated

[oak grotto]

Second that

[paper iron]

Depends on the groupe

Ive got Some pugs

Lets say

Inefficient

[autumn flame]

Feel like blizz Is a bit off when it comes to health/Dmg scaling in m+

[shrewd shadow]

I mean I run far from a meta core group, it’s pally tank ret pally demon lock dis priest and myself lol

[solar glen]

I Just saw a Picture of a graph for Dmg as Sub, any1 here got this maybe? I cant find it anymore

[paper iron]

They giga nerfed m+ scaling

[autumn flame]

Idk man demo seems kinda good

Love playing it so might be a bit biased

[paper iron]

Check simulationcraft

Can gîve u the link in 5mn if u havnt found it

[autumn flame]

Aye but I mean more that lately it's been a survival check instead of timer check

[shrewd shadow]

They are really good but far from meta, but after tomorrow patch might be a lot better

[solar glen]

Would be nice. On Simcraft i cant see it

[paper iron]

I agréé and disagree

[trail ginkgo]

Who is switching sin after patch?

[paper iron]

Aug made us reach high key levels

Where it was needed to survive oneshots

[vale pine]

yes

[lilac stag]

Most people in here.

[vale pine]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[leaden prairie]

90% !!!

[paper iron]

So low

[sly shore]

big numbers!!!

[autumn flame]

Idk if I'm cooked or is shadow craft resets with coup delayed a bit sometimes?

[sly shore]

it can proc on any of the hits

[leaden prairie]

!!!!

I hate this !!!

[hazy breach]

yep

[leaden prairie]

so trash ! fix !

[autumn flame]

Bruh

[leaden prairie]

litteraly can proc one second later

[hazy breach]

Coup does 3 hits, one instantly, one after 0.4s and one after 1s

[leaden prairie]

okok

[autumn flame]

I felt so bad when I striked

[paper iron]

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW2_Raid.html if that s what u were asking for

[hollow spear]

Coup is legit so bad

[autumn flame]

With the reset just after

[indigo steppe]

regarding using cold blood for the 2nd sectech+sd, would it make sense to use it for the first one in scenarios like the first pull on cinderbrew? There could be ~15 enemies for the first one and only like 5 by the time you reach the 2nd sectech and it would seem that you get more value out of using it on the first one in that case

[autumn flame]

So fucking jank

[paper iron]

and people still ask if it s worth pressing rupture as sub

they dont know it deals shitton of damage

[leaden prairie]

wdym, you cant react in 0.0s to a cp refund?

[solar glen]

No. There Just a graph that Shows Burstphase going up and after this its down until its going up again on CDs. I check where i saw it to show

[leaden prairie]

sounds like skill issue to me

[crystal bone]

[paper iron]

i mean ?

[autumn flame]

Real

Washedplayer

[solar glen]

Yeeeees love u

[paper iron]

it s on the link i gave u

[vagrant thorn]

lol those valleys look like healer dps 🙂

[solar glen]

[autumn flame]

Haha look at the bloodlust spike

Haste

[paper iron]

i will play noggenfogger i think

for the bloodlust

frfr

and then u have devoker

[oak grotto]

With the buffs to trinkets, do we still aim for Pacemaker + PVP trinket if you dont raid?

[paper iron]

[limpid sage]

anyone else stuck at Renown 3 2400/2500?

[solar glen]

Im feeling Bad tbh to Switched up to Sub last Week and now Assa gets buffed.

[autumn flame]

So it's just it is what it is if it happens?

[hollow snow]

brother im stuck @ renown 3 0/2500

[paper iron]

truely think it s not gonna change much in raid, all 3 specs does their things and are great

and if u talk about m+

why be a rogue in the first place

[hazy breach]

well ye, but you can just not spam strike if you know you have 5 stacks of sht

[limpid sage]

huge

[hazy breach]

Because its likely you get the proc and get the refund

[limpid sage]

is this week renown 4?

[low steppe]

with symbols and dance does it matter which you cast first?

[hazy breach]

Its not completely random, its if you end up with 7+ sht stacks whenever any of those deal damage

[sly shore]

not in opener but in your 2nd dance you don't press them together

[paper iron]

renwon 4 0/2500 personnaly

[autumn flame]

Right so when coup gets pressed at like 5 I might get last coup while I just got 7 stacks

[hazy breach]

Ye

[autumn flame]

Coup

[vagrant thorn]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[sly shore]

idk why coup isn't one big hit still

it's so stupid

[autumn flame]

Cheers🤝

Played so little sub in nerubar so never really noticed

[midnight folio]

flavor, be happy its not longer than regular gcd

and doesnt pull you into aoe

[autumn flame]

Actually feel so fucking tanky on sprocket

[vagrant thorn]

guys I havent played my rogue in delves yet, can you just perma tricks on Brann and never have aggro? 🙂

[paper iron]

well

yes u can

but also

he will die in 3 hits so

[vagrant thorn]

;[ so its best to just tank mobs with him healing you?

[paper iron]

i would say yea, healing brann, go chill there are no timers anyway, and dont forget rogue is great at skipping lot of the stuff

[midnight folio]

in my experience its been fine after the recent buff

[shrewd shadow]

I have the thing that makes mini bosses spawn a copy of them and transfer hate them

[paper iron]

oh really?

[vagrant thorn]

makes sense thx

[paper iron]

well then can give it a try

[shrewd shadow]

Works way more betterest

[vagrant thorn]

i'll try that 😛

[paper iron]

anyway, to answer yea u can trick brann, u ll figure out quickly what he can and cannot handle

Bioprinter is gold

[shrewd shadow]

Bioprinter is S tier for sure I love it lol

Also found if you don’t want the well connected friend to call his buddies you only need 4.3m dps

[sly shore]

it was even worse then

[lucid jackal]

They do

[sly shore]

it had a 1.4s gcd and charged you to the target

[sly shore]

the one public log (until last night) was actually the worst public log as well

by a lot

[autumn flame]

Ye was not a fan of it at all so just played assa

[alpine wraith]

yea we were talking a bit

he messed up all syncs with adds

[lucid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-booty-shake-glorp-throwing-it-back-glorp-twerk-gif-15728514058189514652

[sly shore]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-baby-speech-bubble-cat-speech-baby-cat-gif-4142671478724681183

He lost an entire cast of flag too

[alpine wraith]

i made that ehehe in hc once

put flag then add chooses me

vanish was on cd

unluck

[paper iron]

unluck

[shrewd shadow]

How do we feel about shindigsw guide to sub rogue? Lotta good stuff I feel like, tried it out made a few minor tweaks

[spice matrix]

Rouge

[alpine wraith]

no idea

[shrewd shadow]

I’m taking a shit at work and the fumes got to me

[alpine wraith]

unironically shitfaced

[shrewd shadow]

Boss makes a dollar I make a dime that’s why I shit on company time

[devout quarry]

!foo

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lucid hawk]

yeah we were told to stop dps for nearly 40 seconds so quite scuffed, dont be weird and make fun of my shit tho

[sly shore]

It's just unfortunate you were the first and only public log for scrutiny

where things do not entirely go to plan

[twilit phoenix]

classic KPB toxicity

[fallen crescent]

[limber relic]

Spreadsheet updated for Ass buffs or not yet?

[sly shore]

[sly shore]

ye

[limber relic]

Damn outlaw still cranking apparently

I dont wanna learn outlaw

[shell arrow]

Anyone help with what this is on my WA pack

[hazy breach]

Then dont

[shell arrow]

Ive got poisons on so i cant work it out lol

[hearty axle]

Healing potion

[lyric patrol]

Outlaw is a trap

[hazy breach]

Tempered Potion

[hearty axle]

Or that

[shell arrow]

ah!

thanks

[limber relic]

Simbait?

[spice matrix]

damn Manic Grieftorch my beloved

[twilit phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shell arrow]

haha miss that bad boy

[lyric patrol]

No but its extremely hard to play effectively on prog thats why logs for outlaw only pop up on farm

[shell arrow]

also im stupid it was non-lethal poison..

[twilit phoenix]

also look at the outlaw sim

no way they leave that trinket as is

[vale pine]

it will likely get fixed at one point in the near future

[shell arrow]

Oh is thtat decent now? Ive got a wabound version sitting in my bank 😄

[hazy breach]

For outlaw yes

Because of a bug

[shell arrow]

oh

[hazy breach]

But its gonna be fixed and be a mid trinket again

[vale pine]

solo documented it in #outlaw (pins)

[shrewd shadow]

Playing outlaw feels like an abortion with extra steps

[twilit phoenix]

[hollow cobalt]

Hey,
Are you doing delves with Brann dps or heal ?

[sly shore]

healer

[limber relic]

DPS baby

[sly shore]

tricks him

[hollow cobalt]

I guess there are two schools

Ill try both and see what I prefer

[limber relic]

I prefer dps because we just stealth hit squad what we need and get out

Atleast once you get a higher ilvl...shit doesn't live long enough to do dmg

[hollow cobalt]

Do you bother to tricks him ?

[sly shore]

at least once yeah

[solemn lance]

Def. The adds can kill you on 10s and 11s. They won't be able to kill brann before you nuke then though

[oak grotto]

Btw, do yall have alts or just rogue?

[lucid jackal]

ret alt

[fickle mason]

Any tips for Bunkjunker?

[autumn flame]

Aye playing alot of holy pally and resto druid, healing in m+ is surprisingly fun

[autumn flame]

Get good at playing the ball mechanic

[wooden hare]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hollow cobalt]

I have my druid on the side, mostly resto and balance. Sometimes bear

[shrewd shadow]

Rogue DH and ele

[void hound]

learning havoc currently

[quaint lodge]

Have two rogue alts and play tank otherwise

I wanna play the game at some point instead of sitting in lfg lmao

[autumn flame]

My 634 hpal got an invite to a 10

[shrewd shadow]

Must be nice lol

[autumn flame]

The amount of DPS in que is absurd

[shrewd shadow]

That’s why I’d just level my key and post

Normally only takes 10 mins or less

[tranquil garden]

leveld my key to 9 and nobody joins, nobody wants a 9, dead level I guess

[muted birch]

i feel ya

sitting on ML 9

farmed 12 prior alrdy

no weapon or chest

[fallen crescent]

What i do is lower it to 8 and hopefully 2 chest it

[tranquil garden]

I just need 10 more crests to recraft my neck to gilded man :X

[muted birch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[slate basin]

So I've been reviewing my logs as Sub, and it looks like I am wasting a ton of extra energy in my shadow technique and symbols of death windows. Are there any common mistakes I can look for to see if I am making them?

[lucid jackal]

those aren't mistakes those are features

[tepid trellis]

we swim in energy during cooldowns

[vale pine]

the most common issue is probably to not play your cooldowns correctly

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[mighty citrus]

My 5 cp ss say otherwise 😂

[slate basin]

I know I am for sure casting way too many backstabs when shadowstrike is up. But when I am comparing myself to a reasonable match, and looking at resources, our reletnless strikes and shadow techniques are comparable, but my symbols of death usabe has 80 wasted energy to their 23. In just the first 20 seconds of the fight

[tepid trellis]

that wont matter at all

[twilit phoenix]

min maxxing energy usage as sub

[slate basin]

Should I be depleting my energy before popping shadowdance and symbols? Since you gain so much during cd's

[twilit phoenix]

[tepid trellis]

well backstab when strike is useable

is

but the energy thing

is unrelated to your dmg output

we do like 75% of our dmg inside of dances if not more

and during those times energy is a non factor

[slate basin]

Okay, so what should I be looking for in my CD windows? The above command?

[tepid trellis]

and the tiny bit extra energy out of dances wont matter at all

just look if your cooldown sequence is correct or not

[hollow plinth]

if you cast coup de grace like with 0.1s remaining on dance, does it snap the dmg buffs still?

[tepid trellis]

and if your cd cadence is looking like it should be

[tepid trellis]

no

[tepid trellis]

the hardest part to get down, is to know when you can use 2x dances between cds and when you cannot

[slate basin]

I've definitely fucked that up

[tepid trellis]

cuz thats an on the fly dicision you have to make

[slate basin]

But I think I have the core rotation slowly building up muscle memory

[tepid trellis]

depending on your current cd and how much uptime you have had / going to get

[slate basin]

Like on Vexie and Cauldron I parsed 60 and 64. Which I would consider pretty bad, Vexie I was handling a lot of mechanics. But not during the damage amp. Wasting a lot of damage using backstab instead of shadowstrike looks like it's almost 60k dps on it's own.

But other then that the biggest differences seem to be that the log I am comparing against fit another CD window in.

[twilit phoenix]

how are you using backstab instead of shadowstrike

[jaunty heath]

Not having stealth bars on having both bound I assume

Not having stealth bars is good btw

[slate basin]

Let me double check, but I do have stealth bars, but they are set-up pretty much the same as non stealth bars. Is there a way to disable them entirely?

[delicate wind]

what scenario do you use bs in dance instead? just curious since i have a stance macro and use the same button but may need a separate bs if this is something i should be doing

[twilit phoenix]

you want to use BS in dance to consume premeditation

[slate basin]

Yeah, so I have stealth bars set-up with shadowstrike and backstab because I am trying to use it for danse macabre.

[twilit phoenix]

it's a minor danse macabre min max

[tepid trellis]

First builder in dance to chase the 0.5% dmg

[twilit phoenix]

if you're having issues with pressing backstab instead of shadow strike so much, just use the macro

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[slate basin]

Would it be trolling to just bind backstab to shadowdance? Since SD is off gcd?

[delicate wind]

okay so advanced min max. prob not super important for just heroic

[slate basin]

lmao guess not

[slate basin]

Using that macro, should I just remove backstab from my stealth bar?

Relying on the macro for the backstab with premed

[lucid jackal]

U dont always go dance backstab is the issue

Sometimes u do buttons > finisher > backstab

[twilit phoenix]

yeah but you can still just press that button

just because you don't backstab first global doesn't mean that you can't hit that macro 2nd or 3rd global in dance

[slate basin]

Does that macro only use shadow dance if it isn't already up?

Because I would hate to hit it a third time and eat a shadowdance charge early

[twilit phoenix]

you can't recast shadow dance if it's already up pretty sure

[cunning turret]

Hi guys, currently progging rik for the first time last night. i found that for alot of the add sets i didn't have much to help damage them. Should cds be held for a little to assist with adds, or should i just do what i can to help but rely on other dps to kill them?

[slate basin]

I felt this on the adds for H gallywix. Like my shuriken storm and black powder were doing jackshit

[lucid jackal]

U shud be holding symbols and dance for barrel sets yeah

[cunning turret]

here's my logs for last night if anyone's able to take a peek - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D4LnBMck73XwfQ2y

[tepid trellis]

time your cds for them

boss dmg is irrelevant on the fight

[hexed sluice]

I found heroic rik went much smoother with me timing cds for adds and just annihilating them, least in my raid group. EDIT: Minor CDs, Still did standard opener. etc/

[paper iron]

u can check lorrgs.io to get a first glance of what most of rogues are doing with cds there. U can always have something for barrels afair

[hazy breach]

Holding flag and stuff could be debatable, but your non-flag dances should just be held for the adds always

As youre not really losing anything by doing it

So why wouldnt you

[low steppe]

Banger, as a fresh rogue thanks for that

[slate basin]

I know casting shadowblades after the initial sectech cast is fine, cause the damage of the follow-up hits is amped by the blades. But is that also true of my on-use trinket? Because right now I have the trinket bound to my shadowblades

[cunning turret]

i felt sometimes the barrels were coming up maybe 10 seconds before flag/SB, so my worry was holding dance until then would mess up my blades window.

first season as dps/rogue in a long time, so i'm still getting used to the nuances

[winter python]

Delay CDs on pull by 10s and it lines up

Misread your comment sorry, don't waste your 2 x dance / symbols before CDs

[paper iron]

what trinket are u using?

[tepid trellis]

shameless self promo BUT, i have pov of our kill of it on youtube, it will probably help you understand how its done

[paper iron]

[slate basin]

champ track pvp trinket

[paper iron]

i m not really 100% sure since i m not using it but i think that s like house of card in duration

so u can just macro it to blade and forget about it

the important part is that it covers most of the double dance

[slate basin]

1 min cd, 15 sec duration

[paper iron]

yea so just macro it / cast it with shadowblades

so it lasts the whole shadowblades

exactly like house of card, if you re lucky to get one later on

[slate basin]

Hopefully

[fair phoenix]

Stupid question...how would one sim Bubbling Wax as an option for Sub on Raidbots (as it is not in the dropdown)?

[slate basin]

Need to do the stupid delve weekly for a random chance at champ track

[vale pine]

copy/paste this below your /simc in advanced sim:

###################
### Weapon enchants
###################
profileset."Ironclaw Whetstone x2"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:ironclaw_whetstone_3/off_hand:ironclaw_whetstone_3"
profileset."Algari Mana Oil x2"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:algari_mana_oil_3/off_hand:algari_mana_oil_3"
profileset."Oil of Deep Toxins x2"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:oil_of_deep_toxins_3/off_hand:oil_of_deep_toxins_3"
profileset."Bubble_Wax x2"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:bubbling_wax/off_hand:bubbling_wax"
profileset."Bubble_Wax + Mana Oil"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:bubbling_wax/off_hand:algari_mana_oil_3"
profileset."Bubble_Wax + Deep Toxin"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:bubbling_wax/off_hand:oil_of_deep_toxins_3"
profileset."Bubble_Wax + Whetstone"+="temporary_enchant=main_hand:bubbling_wax/off_hand:ironclaw_whetstone_3"
profileset."No Weapon oil"+=temporary_enchant=disabled

[paper iron]

i would use the fuu thing to compare every consumables in the game

^

he dropped it faster :(

[fair phoenix]

thx :)

[dense lichen]

Has anyone else noticed First Dance proccing while in combat when using Vanish? I popped vanish while fighting a pack of mobs in m+ last night and even after leaving stealth to re-engage, the timer for First Dance still ticked down and I got the buff for it in combat.
It doesn’t seem consistently replicable tho, need to test more.

[muted birch]

technicaly, if its not an boss encounter

you basicly drop the combat

[paper iron]

it s a known "bug" refered as TFD delay i think, i dont know more about it but just so you know, it s a known thing and people here might know more than me aboutit

if it s 100% replicable that would be so big

actually

[vale pine]

we don't know how to reliably replicate it

but tfd sometimes proccing from vaish was stated multiple times by people in the chat

[dense lichen]

So it’s just kinda random then

[vale pine]

there might be some way to reliably do it

but we haven't found it

[wild hornet]

i feel like im the only one sending cds to boss

kek

[jaunty heath]

Rik reverb actually super fun sub boss

You get to blast adds and CDs lign up

Banger

That shadowblades on last add spawn

[covert crane]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[jaunty heath]

But to be fair if you blast your cds and the boss is placed accordingly you blow up both

So you are putting your cds into boss anyways

[wild hornet]

true but it feels like it happens half the time

2 out of 3/4 times

[jaunty heath]

Nah it really doesn’t

You move your first blades by 13-14 seconds

Into the pull

Then it Ligns up naturally

[wild hornet]

im prob missing one global or so

to get sectec back

cause im pepega

[jaunty heath]

Dances you do one after cds next one on adds

Then it’s cds with adds again

Phase over

Repeat

[wild hornet]

yeah im still yet to hone out my cds a little

got my first 99 after a while

if i dont prepot or cb on accident b4 pull

[little epoch]

!prekey

[vale pine]

there is no pre key

[dry plank]

Especially if they spread around for sp and boomie favor

[vale pine]

you can send symbols just as the key starts to get more supercharger

but thats all

[jaunty heath]

Sure you can get unlucky spreads but boomie is a bit of a reach on this fight

Not like the adds live forever

If played correctly

[bleak night]

Yeah I don’t think it’s much of a boomkin fight

Unless everyone is ignoring barrels lmao

Or you’re perma getting bad spawns for melee

[dry plank]

In our raid ranges are so weak that rl put melee on yolo mission and I was in that disaster group. Also I hold cds for barrels coz it was huge problem. As result -1 cds for fight

Probably we are too melee heavy

So I did not enjoy fight 😦

I like press cds on cd )))

[eternal hawk]

Hello guys!
Who can tell me what's the weakaura and nameplates using casualaddict?

[hazy breach]

Probably casualaddict

[dense coral]

I actually lol'd

[warm depot]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

think casual uses plater

plater is the standard people use nameplate wise due to functionality

[frank ledge]

Noon question alert 🚨… could you point me in direction of talent that’s giving me full combo point refresh? Sometimes 3 times

[bleak wind]

shadowcraft

[alpine wraith]

shadowcraft

[frank ledge]

Thank you, anyway to track when that’s gonna happen or just react?

[light shell]

Do we play around our tier set in any way? Like using rupture instead of evis to ensure you are going into your cooldowns with high stacks of the tier bonus?

[alpine wraith]

in sims it is neutral but you can make decisions if adds are going to spawn or other things

[tepid trellis]

Shadow technique stacks at 7+ when symbols is active, then your finisher will refresh cps

[dense lichen]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[dense lichen]

Theres a shadowcraft sound trigger here ^

and most weakaura packs will also display it visually

[frank ledge]

Thank you I bet my WA has it but I didn’t know what to look for. Assuming the sound triggers before? Main issue is I’m using my builder when I the combo points refresh

[dense lichen]

the sound triggers as you spend the finisher. between that and a visual tracker you should be able to react in time. but keep in mind that coup de grace can delay the refund a bit so I wouldnt mash a builder while the animation is happenign

[frank ledge]

Huge!

[valid yoke]

So maybe I’m a bit dense but I can’t find anything for downtime rotation. Is it literally just maintaining rupture and backstab-evis rinse and repeat?

Until the next flag?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[valid yoke]

And then make sure I have two dances and two symbols ready for next flag

[hazy breach]

Well, you need to be able to use 2 of them during flag

You dont necessarily need 2 ready when you press flag

[valid yoke]

Gotcha

And then blades obviously

Seems simple enough… I’m sure I’ll fuck it up horribly 😂

[muted birch]

I usually try to calculate

Not let them sit

When Charge returns

[shrewd shadow]

I’m doing my first rotation have both symbols and dance up, then go through that until I’m no longer insta procing a reset on evis then symbols dance and the crit strike buff into shadow and spam evis and backstab

[runic sinew]

one question!? Sometimes this talent just proc when I pop my vanish but don't wait 6 seconds.
After this my next SD pop with 12 sec.
Exists min max for this talent?

[shrewd shadow]

Then down time until flag is up

[shrewd shadow]

I don’t only use it on pull and let it count down between pulls

[muted birch]

Either you found a bug, or its visual illusion and you had bs queded

[lilac stag]

Log?

[shrewd shadow]

Can anyone point me in the direction on how to get my logs and post em? So I can share get some feed back? Feel like I’m doing okay but want more out of the spec

[muted birch]

type your name in warcraftlogs website

and you toon should pop up if somone from your party logged

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/

[vocal crypt]

idk why my dmg sucks what i do wrong ..

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9ATpd4PtmRNqnF3h?fight=last&type=damage-done

[muted birch]

nope, also works for m+

tho if you didnt log or anyone else in party you wont be able to review it

[shrewd shadow]

Ty I’ll set it up when I’m in home

[muted birch]

remember

you have to type /combatlog

every time you log, and want to record the fight

[shrewd shadow]

Ty ty! And that’ll do the whole zone? Or just each pull

[muted birch]

encounters

and trash in an instance

[shrewd shadow]

So every single time before combat starts

Yuck

[muted birch]

just before

the game

after you logged out and shut down pc

[shrewd shadow]

Oh so as soon as the count goes in?

Oh that’s not bad

[muted birch]

no no

you can just

pop in dornagal

write /combatlog

[shrewd shadow]

Very nice

[muted birch]

and forget about it

but

you need an account

on warcraftlogs

[shrewd shadow]

Gotcha, ty ty

[muted birch]

and I would recommend downloading

the companion app

Hopefully i helped

[runic sinew]

this is random, I need to track better to get the exactly log.

[north kite]

why is house of cards less value in latest raidbots build then in the weekly one, anyone know?

[hazy breach]

Can you link

It shouldnt be

[north kite]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wHoFatan6uaK3NdBvSWcHg
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/esmYW6yqvi5aoMQjEv82ur

[hazy breach]

Signet is stronger

House of cards isnt weaker

But also i would recommend you get the pvp badge until you get house of cards

[north kite]

Did they buff signed?

[hazy breach]

No

There was some minor apl changes to some on-uses

With blades

But you should really get the pvp trinket instead

[solar glen]

Which pvp trinket?

[grand flame]

On use.

With 1min cd

[solar glen]

Lol thanks

[alpine wraith]

it is called prized gladiator's badge of ferocity

[solar glen]

Is it only to get in 658 or even on Hero?

[alpine wraith]

cant get on hero

[solar glen]

Thx

[alpine wraith]

used to be able to with the pvp vault but not anymore

[vale pine]

its a good short term substitude

[alpine wraith]

ye im using it rn

was only 0.6% worse than transmitter

[solar glen]

Yea actually im on the Energydrink and the Pacemaker

Didnt think about the pvp Trinket tbh

[deep estuary]

Is it easy to get the conquest for it, I'm not a pvp'er

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sonic hamlet]

!sb

what was the command for the symbols macro?

[quick latch]

how much of a difference is a 2 supercharged sectec to 1 supercharge?

[crystal bone]

mechagon 12, 10 min left on timer
me: we skipping corner pack?
everyone: yes
wipes 3 times trying to do 3 diff skip methods
throws key

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[quick latch]

ppl in my groups ask each other if they have invis pots while im standing there as rogue

[crystal bone]

yep

[dusty totem]

The blast on glally can we cloak it?

[queen kraken]

guys, does a sectec follow a moving boss or is it stationary? 😂 sorry for that mental question

our tank is moving stix through fire and flames x)

[vale pine]

yes, if we talk about the same raid mechanic

[queen kraken]

and melees had to hit stationary bombshells 🥲

[vale pine]

the follow up attack hits the target even if it moves away

[dusty totem]

Gallybux finale blast

[queen kraken]

ahhh ok ty

[queen kraken]

was always wondering cuz it seemd like they didnt on m+, but they only disappear if the target dies amirite?

also thanks for the quick reply

[alpine wraith]

usually normal walking distance is not enough to krangle sec tech

it has to be a jump or blink

[thorny escarp]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[molten citrus]

i think it saying "patch" has caused a small confusion a couple times

[vale pine]

oh

fixed

[molten citrus]

[quaint lodge]

this has happened to me twice this week

its bcuz i dont yell abt letting me restealth on sub that much LMAO

[alpine wraith]

maybe i have to teach people the secret tech of vanishing when a pull is ending

instead of just sending a random shadowstrike

[worldly briar]

Hey all, I'm new to subtlety since even before the hero talent implementation. I was wondering if anyone who is knowledgeable with logs would be willing to look at this comparison and tell me what the rogue on the left is doing wrong? Aside from some hefty stat differences with roughly 10k lower versatility and and not using the Treacherous Transmitter. With those obvious items aside why is the there a 1.2 million dps variance in overall damage? It appears the rogue on the right's abilities are hitting considerably harder. Sorry if this is the wrong place for this. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/T84PdwFkprxA7cRK/8YaPGmfWZ46dQFnc?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=23%2C15

[lucid jackal]

Well vers as a stat, does make your spells hit harder

As does mastery

[hazy breach]

I dont remember who said it, but holding your vanish for the CC immune adds on bandit is so nice

Fuck having to do be targeted and not blast

[worldly briar]

That was my understanding of it as well, but the comparison shows only a 300 ish difference for mastery

[alpine wraith]

yea stealthi and someone else were talking about it

it works nice

just gotta do it really fast to not confuse people

[vital flax]

would a 619 transmitter be better than the pvp trinket?

[alpine wraith]

depends on gear for me pvp trink was only 0.6% behind fully upgraded myth transmitter

[quaint lodge]

Just from first look, you need to go back to the wowhead page to study the opener

[alpine wraith]

because i have lots of agi vers and mastery

[quaint lodge]

Its done incorrectly, sub rogue is very particular about doing that opener xoreectly because its so much of your damage

[rare radish]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[worldly briar]

Got it, sounds good. I know at one point I was using symbols in the wrong order. Not sure if that is reflected on that log or prior. But I'll circle back to nail down the opener. Appreciate the note

[lucid jackal]

I can't look at logs at work

But this covers literally everything about sub tbh

[quaint lodge]

For recerence, you need to use double dance within your flagellation windows

So in your log you hit shadow dance thhen u wait 20s to do it again which is suppoosed to have a 0 second gap p much

[fathom gazelle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom gazelle]

is eye of kazan still bis or only for 6m+ fights?

[lean cradle]

anyone able to help me out with me performance?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pdgQBzTbtc1M8r2H?fight=24&type=damage-done&source=430

i think i got the rotation correctly but still i feel like im slacking, did had 1 dps loss where i tried to do oil but other than that i think i nailed my cds, dont know maybe i missread guide and am doing rotation wrong?

[lucid jackal]

Cold blood should be your 2nd sectec not your first

U also backstabbed twice

Ur symbols use is also wrong

It should be at 10 or less seconds on sectec

Ur followup dance should have a backstab

[hazy breach]

Also every dance should have 8 spells cast inside of it

Some of yours are 5, 6 or 7

[lean cradle]

so i only backstab once in shadowdance and then shadowstrike?
i should start using symbols and shadowdance separately
always fit 8 spells in shadowdance
1st sectech in opener without cold blood and 2nd with (do we do it only in opener or always with 1.5min cds)?

[azure mauve]

how big is yusing backstab vs not?

[hazy breach]

0.5%, per the pin

[shrewd shadow]

anyway to get logs to read the training dummies?

[lucid jackal]

Backstab first generator in dance always

[hazy breach]

Not live log, but just uploading them natty works

[lucid jackal]

You can hold the cold blood or cast it literally the second it comes up

If Ur even half a sec late just hold it

[mighty citrus]

whats a bit difficult for me and surely for other players is to understand, when you hold simple dance on fights light gallywix

i mean i can have a look at lorrgs right

but when iam actually infight, i sometimes get nervous when i hold for too long 😄

[odd sandal]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[odd sandal]

guys does anybody have reminder WA to use symbols of death before pull?

[lean cradle]

also if i have 18-23sec oon my flag/blades do i use clean sectech or just hold my shit for them?

[lucid jackal]

Hold

Stop pressing sod/dance at 30 seconds on flag/blades

[small hemlock]

so my muscle memory dictates i mist press symbols in my opener, if i have 2 prepull supercharged CPs and go into my opener and spunk it so im up to four is that detremental

or should i only sb for sectec

[lucid jackal]

Unsure what Ur asking

[lean cradle]

so we go super low with dmg before cooldowns, not doing much tbh and when they come back we roll again, just wasnt sure if that pause was good

[small hemlock]

nothing actually looking at the opener on wowhead its doing what i do naturally anyway

[solar glen]

What does the 3 and 2 Points mean on symbols and dance?

[shrewd shadow]

3 charges and 2 charges

[solar glen]

ah simple

HAHA

[shrewd shadow]

took me a second to figure it out

[round latch]

i mean u cant have 3star quality on symbols nor 2star quality on dance

[solar glen]

hahaha is this awkward

[round latch]

ok

im out

yeah its awkward

someone removed vanish emoji

im rly sad

[lean cradle]

okay, got my notes done, tomorrow back to practice, thanks yall

[west tide]

me when i always sod and the accidentally use 2 finishers before my sec tech comes up

hehe

[alpine wraith]

hehe

nothing like getting the cdr bug

when you finish and sec tech is at 2 secs instead of no cd because fuck you

might actually tell people about it so they know more

[maiden trench]

Do you think that dummy are really the best way to train? In a real situation, it’s completely different, I feel like I don’t progress anymore training on it

[alpine wraith]

depends on how you learn

some people do better with dummies other need to go into a m+ or raid

[fallow nimbus]

Is voidelf mandatory for mugzee mythic? Who develops such shit?

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[lucid jackal]

Yes

U learn to the point that the rotation and sequencing comes automatically

[edgy hatch]

Yo sub noob here don't shoot me for this but do you guys use cast sequence macros for openers etc

[brittle plinth]

Then move to dungeons, it's all repetition

[maiden trench]

Ok ty all

[lucid jackal]

Nope

[brittle plinth]

I've thought about it but realistically it's just a crutch

Better to just learn the dance

Variations arise enough

[west tide]

i know a guy who raided in am insane good guild and he one button macrod his whole rotation

and would hit hella r1s

some mfs just wanna play like that.. altho technically i think it was against tos

not sure

[edgy hatch]

I might try it out and see how it is

[west tide]

dont do it man

[edgy hatch]

Maybe i wanna get banned bro

[west tide]

unless u need to for accessibility

[edgy hatch]

I'll spend time beating the shit out of a dummy

Instead

[west tide]

yup

i used to hit dummies for hours

[plush roost]

Huh, just assumed my UI WA wasn't updating in time

Another bug to the list

[clever delta]

DAMN killed sprocket on last puill of day

[west tide]

lets goo

[hexed ore]

What spec would you guys recommend pushing into higher keys?

I'm currently sitting with mostly 12s completed as sub and whilst I love the priority damage and burst output, I find my dps is heavily at the whims of how a tank pulls (which I'm hoping becomes more consistent in higher keys levels) and never are able to compete on overall damage done against classes like fire, unholy, ret etc in places like meadery where there is constant large target AoE.

[hazy breach]

Seems more so key specific

Like meadery is mostly constant aoe, so assa is really strong

[clever delta]

our logs on sprocket 😄

are something else

[hazy breach]

Theater would be more of a sub key

[west tide]

boss dead thas all that matters baby

grats

[clever delta]

yeah it was insane tanks finishing boss alone

[west tide]

i feel like my guild can kill sprocket on tuesday, im wondering if we should skip stix just to do it faster and then do stix after hmm

[vestal escarp]

holy shit thaddius with knockbacks

[alpine wraith]

we are going straight to sprocket after vexxie

kinda nice you can do it this raid

[mint swift]

Yea

The fact you have a choice of what

4 bosses?

[twilit phoenix]

i think we're in stix hell this week

[mint swift]

After 1st

Is grrat

[twilit phoenix]

and then sprocket

[mint swift]

Upside of doing heroic
No perma hell bosses

Tbh mug is kinda fucking our asses rn tho

[twilit phoenix]

you guys are on mythic mug?

[swift tundra]

question with recent buffs to assasination u guys think is going to be too far ahead of sub now?

[west tide]

nooo

[alpine wraith]

maybe on mug zee

[twilit phoenix]

potentially on mugzee

[alpine wraith]

as they can get 2 cd uses now still

but not for long

[mint swift]

No heroic

[twilit phoenix]

giga executive phase on the mugger

with BL and 2x cds

[mint swift]

I’m in more of a casual guild

[alpine wraith]

yea big execute

do 600k less dps than warr

kekw

[mint swift]

Rn we are struggling with the final phase where it goes like

Bombs —> cages —> big soak

[alpine wraith]

you can immune soak with people outside

no need to try and hit everyone on the middle

it is easier on healers too

[mint swift]

I mean I don’t mean to toot my own horn but

Kinda gaming on my hunter

[alpine wraith]

ramping

[mint swift]

For muggy wuggy

Ik this is prolly shit for most ppl dps wise

Bug let me have my moment

[alpine wraith]

well you cant compare hc to M

the gear is also diff

and it is not like my dps on mug zee was stellar last time we killed anyway lul

[mint swift]

Yeye 100%

Also as said we are much more casual

[indigo verge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west tide]

why did u friends spell their names with that o

ö

[final holly]

So they never get /gkick'd

[mint swift]

Or maybe they wanna call emselves smth that’s been taken

Like I’d

Omelette

[flat wyvern]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[wide kernel]

it gets better when you have friends to queue with and such but yeah i feel this

[viral girder]

627 season 1 geared sub rogue vs a 654 assassation season 2 geared rogue.

And I just casually smoked him on DPS

Had a bit of an ego 1v1 going towards the end of that. I didnt wanna get out dpsd

[rustic geyser]

You ever wonder how one sided these brag posts are? Like do you know that guy wasn't playing while working? Or mid eating a glizzy? All the while you're getting all hyper competitive?

[hexed ore]

When pugging and the tank does a big opening pull I'm like hell yeah were gonna blast.

Then tank proceeds to pull a 3 pack of mobs so I'm like hmm what we doing here chief do I send cd's after a few seconds I'm like well gotta send. Then after cds have been mostly used they'll drag on and pull another pack and continue to low target count drag on for the rest of the dungeon.

Big sad

[wide kernel]

why is it specifically we do so well on big pulls despite the soft target cap?

it always feels like black powder doesn't do anything

[lucid jackal]

cuz were the highest burst spec in the game

[serene gust]

Got a sub rogue question that is throwing me off. Besides the opener do I use shadow dance on cool down and ensure secret tech is the second finisher or should I ever save shadow dance?

[rustic geyser]

a lot of things are also soft capped, so it's not much of a pointer
it's really just OL that's actually HARD capped

[lucid jackal]

You symbols when secret technique has 10 or less seconds

If you have a dance, you use it

[serene gust]

So never just save dance and use it on cd but make sure symbols is used with it?

[lucid jackal]

stop using CDs at 30 or less seconds on flag/blades

that is literally not what I said at all

Symbols is your primary cooldown

You ADD dance to symbols if you have it

You never dance without symbols

[serene gust]

Okay so only dance with symbols

[lucid jackal]

correct

[serene gust]

And if flag is got 30s left I save it and then use it during the flag and blades

[lucid jackal]

correct

[serene gust]

Okay I’ll make sure to work on that! Been assassination since last season of DR started so gotta relearn

Thanks @lucid jackal

[lucid jackal]

👍

[sly shore]

bandit funny bossy

[rustic geyser]

lol that the adds popping?

[sly shore]

ye

[rustic geyser]

respect

enacting anime jumping in real time

"TAKE HIS SHOES"

[vestal escarp]

recklessness avatar bladestorm?

[brazen meadow]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[half comet]

so do u want to backstab with both dances in cooldwons

[twilit phoenix]

You do it every dance

[valid yoke]

Is it possible to macro flag and shadow blades together since you need to use them together anyways?

[twilit phoenix]

You don’t really use them together

You use flag a global or two before blades is used

To get the mast stacks going

[solemn lance]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[viral girder]

Whys that needed though?

[solemn lance]

Can't that macro just be /cast shadow dance

/cast backstab

Or is there a specific reason to make it separate presses

[winter python]

Sometimes you Dance on high CP, so you wouldn't want to Backstab first global

[solemn lance]

Ah, so ypu could dance, finish, bs and get the full cp

[final holly]

The only issue I've had with that macro so far is I can't seem to queue my next SD right as the current one is ending. But I might also be imagining things if it was never queuable in the first place

[clever delta]

Kinda sad that I won't be on bandit when i see those rogues poppung up

[hard plume]

Guys, we need to talk about how terrible the secret technique icon is

it's so bad

[rustic geyser]

is it though?

or does it just make little sense because... it's secret

[exotic holly]

one of the better ones IMO

[hard plume]

Nah man it's one of the worst

[edgy zenith]

why you bp?

[exotic holly]

just macro your ST to change the icon

[quaint lodge]

ok ngl

zooming into that icon makes me feel

differently about it

i agree

change the icon

why is secret technique just a blue man in my room

[exotic holly]

cuz he shadow mans

[frail heath]

hey, you guys have serious problems with the emisary of xalatath too?

feels like i'm doing 0 damage to this what can i do

[hazy breach]

Hold dance&symbols for it

[frail heath]

is worthing using without secret just to kill her?

kinda bad 😦

[lucid jackal]

nop

[lethal yew]

Does shadow dance or symbols have a pandemic timer in your opener?

[hazy breach]

You cant shadow dance while dance is up

Symbols does have pandemic of 3 seconds, but its not something you really care about

The main priority with symbols is to make sure you supercharge sectech

[lethal yew]

So in the opener cast the 2nd dance when 1st falls off, symbols when you get sectec up again

it does pandemic but its not something you play around?

[hazy breach]

Yes, it will naturally line up well by doing it for sectech

[lethal yew]

Thank you

[valid yoke]

Do I want to use evis with nimble flurry or black powder for aoe?

[tepid trellis]

Evis until 7+

[plush roost]

So what fight length is hotline outweighed by kazan now? 4? 6 min?

[hazy breach]

5 or so

[plush roost]

Rgr that so still bis for most of mythic then

[hazy breach]

Well the hotline gets a lot worse the longer the fight goes

Its like the inverse of kezan

Because a lot of its power is in the BL effect

[plush roost]

Hmm i guess so, maybe its worth it to max this mythic wax whistle next week

The robot will tell

(i want minecarts to fly across the screen and scare my party)

[austere tangle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rapid kite]

Sup team, during dance, can we use finishers at 5CP or does it always have to be 6CP ?

If it is always 6CP, why ?

[hazy breach]

Its better to use at 6+

Its not horrible to use at 5, but its worse

[rapid kite]

Feels weird to spend another GCD during dance to ambush again

feels like a waste and sucks for energy too

[hazy breach]

Well the next shadowstrile is gonna take you to 7 after

[rapid kite]

Why would it be better at 6 tho, isnt stratagem 5 and over ?

[hazy breach]

Otherwise you get stuck at 5s

[hazy breach]

What

[rapid kite]

Wow

Does this mean stratagem applies from 6

holy

[hazy breach]

What

The 5% is always active

[rapid kite]

oh oof

okay

so during dance, if you land at 5 CP

its better to shadowstrike again to reach 7CP

that sounds crazy to me

losing a gcd / a potential additional finisher

[hazy breach]

You dont lose a global

[rapid kite]

well

doing shadowstrike twice in a row during dance

is kinda losing a global no ?

[hazy breach]

No?

A finisher at 5 CP does less damage than one with 7 CP

[rapid kite]

damn

that somehow is news to me

[rapid kite]

did you mean two ?

[hazy breach]

No

[rapid kite]

like ofc i know that 5<7

but dance only lasting a few gcd

[wicked urchin]

Would you evis at 5 if it's your last finisher in your dance window? I'm assuming not

[rapid kite]

i don't see how spending one to ''increase'' one of them makes it better

[hazy breach]

Nop

[wicked urchin]

kk i haven't been but i was still curious

[rapid kite]

How big is the difference between a 5CP vs 7CP ?

[wicked urchin]

I mean if it's better just don't do it at 5

[rapid kite]

its the ''why'' i'm interested in understanding

[hazy breach]

Very common scenario is this:
Strike > strike > evis (7) > strike > evis (7)
Or you could finish at 5 and get:
Strike > evis (5) > strike > evis (5) > strike

[rapid kite]

Dance is 8 GCD total, i'm sry I don't get it

[wicked urchin]

First two is always backstab > evis (7)

[hazy breach]

I mean i cut out the sectech > backstab > evis part from the start because it doesnt matter for this discussion

Its just slightly more efficient to cast 7 CP finishers than 5 CP finisher

Which offsets the CP loss from striking at 5

But idk you can take the -0.3% from finishing at 5 if you dont trust the sims, it doesnt really matter

[rapid kite]

Do you lack energy if you have to SS twice in a row ?

Like do you ''hold'' a bit on your next global for energy or that doesn't happen ?

[lavish rose]

has anyone put together a list for dungeons where sin vs sub vs outlaw perform better or have more valuable utility?

been maining sub since raid dropped but interested in switching for different scenarios

[rapid kite]

anyways, thank you for taking the time 😉

[lavish rose]

or does anyone have advice on dungeons where switching to sin will be better

[plush roost]

Usually symbols+ sht procs will be enough energy

Unless you're also feinting during this then it can be a bit sus

Don't forget that shadowstrike does a lot of damage now, so striking on 5cp isn't as much of a "waste" as it may seem

[steady island]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb_ty4l0DBg This lil edit shows the crazy damage DFA does consuming 2 charges of deathstalkers mark

(Im bad, its a random BG, & im buffed)

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/stuck-at-logging-into-game-server/2082288 i'm having this wonderful problem atm

which a lot of people are having who play in certain areas

can only log into the game right now using a VPN but then i'm at 300 ms /cry

[steady island]

thats actually dogshit

demand a wow token

[tribal blade]

not even sure if blizz is doing anything, haven't seen any blue posts about it

[steady island]

start the riot that results in wow tokens

[tribal blade]

i'm just sitting here stewing in anger

[steady island]

Go to reddit & rally the troops

[tribal blade]

lemme actually check if there's anything on reddit about it

nothing on reddit, just the wow forums

alright i posted something on reddit

[soft summit]

Are they ever going to make Rogue a good class that people actually want to play?

[steady island]

no then it wouldnt be cool

[valid yoke]

I mean the lack of people playing rogue is one of the things that draws me to the class lol

It’s nice to be niche lol

[vagrant fulcrum]

it is good, people not wanting to play it is due to how bad it is to level, thematic and effort to reward ratio

[twilit phoenix]

it's prolly the hardest melee class with the least amount of fantasy

and it's not even the strongest

and it has little utility

legit nothing attractive compared to divine storming paladins

or enhance shamans summoning wolves and storms

we put a glowing x on top of our one target

[lucid jackal]

I mean even when it was OP in amirdrasil it was OP

very low play rate

But yeah I mean it's a mix of like

[tribal blade]

how many people play the class doesn't matter to me, the big issue is there seems to be a very clear connection with the low play rate and blizz giving rogue attention

[lucid jackal]

Low fantasy design, nothing super flashy, has to work a bit harder than most classes for damage

[twilit phoenix]

guy saying what I said

but still scrounging for a way to be contrarian

classic guy

[lucid jackal]

IM AGREEING Assbitch

[tribal blade]

i would say bitchass

[short radish]

yeah who says assbitch

[twilit phoenix]

no assbitch is actually really good

W to guy

[short radish]

way to be contrarian

[tribal blade]

how bout ssbitcha

[twilit phoenix]

that's enough now

[short radish]

also doesnt help that rogue brings a defensive buff

which is basically meaningless

[tribal blade]

but yeah blizz just giving rogue 0 attention because of our playerbase

remember the absolute clown show that was our hero tree talent dev time during TWW beta

[short radish]

i mean i guess DKs also have 0 raid buff

and we should also be grateful that we acutally have raid buff

[tepid trellis]

I blame outlaw

[twilit phoenix]

that abombussy is grippy though

[short radish]

true

grip is a raid buff

[twilit phoenix]

unironically more utility in a well timed abomb limb

on like stix

[lucid jackal]

Dude

Our oab loot

Leather bracers

Offhand

Helm tier

[twilit phoenix]

bracers are good though no

[lucid jackal]

leather bracer

[twilit phoenix]

bis for you

[lucid jackal]

I DIDNT EVEN GET IT I CRAFTED BRACERS

[warm depot]

so many assbitches

[twilit phoenix]

L

[lucid jackal]

NO HOUSE OF CARDS

NO BEST IN SLOTS

[twilit phoenix]

imagine crafting bracers

actually I think I might craft bracers this week kek

either bracers or gloves

[warm depot]

bracer craft angle too

despair

[twilit phoenix]

so many heroic hocs in your kill group holy

did you guys slam splits or something?

[lucid jackal]

we did a lot of splits yeah

[sick jacinth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brazen meadow]

!BS

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[drifting fable]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[neon walrus]

Do you guys delay cd’s for affix buff? How long would you delay for?

Can be problematic delaying tho because then you do 0dmg to it

[lucid jackal]

holding cds is cringe so never

[warped ferry]

Healer mechanic

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-blink-blink-pepe-pepe-pepe-the-frog-blink-blink-pepe-the-frog-gif-1555930131853257684

[tribal blade]

pop a rupture on it if you feel like it

but everyone's cleave should be enough to kill it

[neon walrus]

Not what I asked but ty- I essentially do this unless I’m bursting

I meant to benefit from the buff

Doesn’t matter ima start playing outlaw come reset anyway 😦 but apparently it’s fun so w/e

I like deleting things tho