it's leaning that way
#subtlety
lilac stag
between people trying to force macro everything , or worse cast sequencing shit... I really wonder what is the draw to play sub, vers playing a spec that it is typically easier for people to play and perform well on
copper horizon
Anyone know why my friends log got this red line on it ?
lilac stag
it's christmas in March
pure jay
between people trying to force macro everything , or worse cast sequencing shit....
mythic prog bis spec
is my mental
but if i cant play it like it should then obv its not
lilac stag
mythic prog bis spec
kekw if you think it's sub
up until this coming reset. all 3 are mid. outlaw likely the best of the 3, but people are gun shy to play it
sub got play because of ptr hype and shittiny looking assa sims
gritty summit
how important is getting back into stealth during keys? most tanks in pugs chain
lilac stag
do it when you can for TFD, dont lose sleep over it
gritty summit
thanks ❤️
lilac stag
if I dont have cds up I ususally try to sit back and get TFD
pure jay
kekw if you think it's sub
huuuuh
lucid jackal
otl > sub > sin
mugzee = sin
Playing smthing like sin on oab is legit just hard trolling fex
Even post buff
pure jay
i liked sub on heroic mug
lucid jackal
Mythic is a diff fight is the issue
where nothing in p1 matters
and only p2 matters
so execute 2 cds 1 with lust = gg
pure jay
fair
short radish
i mean this in the kindest way, if you are grey parsing then it is a skill issue not a stat issue
and you are likely missing a key part of the rotation
pure jay
i mean this in the kindest way, if you are grey parsing then it is a skill issue...
its 100% a skill issue primarily
but looking at logs when other rogues have 7k+ mastery its rough
short radish
as long as you are primarily stacking vers and mastery
and have't gotten high haste on everything
the stats are not as big of an issue as you think
outside tier there's just
neck/wrists/belt/rings
both wrists and belt can be gotten from raid as vers/mast
ring is farmable from top (since you use circes)
and just craft a neck
lilac stag
but looking at logs when other rogues have 7k+ mastery its rough
youre looking at the wrong thing if that's what you're looking at in logs
short radish
that should solve any potnetial stat issue
also yeah thats definitely not the issue
i fucked up on a heroic rix kill
where i didnt pop transmitter on pull
pure jay
youre looking at the wrong thing if that's what you're looking at in logs
its like the 8th thing
lilac stag
look at rotational issues and timing issues
short radish
so i was missing 7k main stat or something
lilac stag
dont look at anything else
short radish
still got 95
lilac stag
and focus on your play
short radish
💯
lilac stag
you';re just wasting time trying to sort out stats
short radish
looking over stats is just unhealthy meaningless coping
short radish
jinx.
pure jay
my comment about the stats wasn't meant to be that heavy
short radish
pure jay
its something I look at when timelines and cast counts show similar
lilac stag
this would be the equivalent of me looking at solo's outlaw logs and going well he's got 10% more haste than me, clearly it's not me being mid at a spec that triggers my fibromyalgia. lol
pure jay
yet abilities hit 2x harder
short radish
it is not a stat issue
pure jay
i never said my performance is because of stats
short radish
it's also a knee-jerk reflex for us whenever someone mentions stats
pure jay
apparently
pure jay
i am surprised I should be using wax and mastery flask still
but yea
my issue is not because of stats
lilac stag
Well you’ve been going on about your stats and gear for a good amount of time
pure jay
Well you’ve been going on about your stats and gear for a good amount of time
not really
lilac stag
Asked you to use !log. Got ignored.
pure jay
Asked you to use !log. Got ignored.
i've done it 3 times and got assistance earlier
which I said
lilac stag
so now it be what it be. Good luck
pure jay
i can do it again if you'd like, it didnt sound like YOU were interested in it
brisk onyx
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
I rather have spent my free time helping you with a log vs memeing on your missing mystery and bis list. Now it’s back to work.
pure jay
didnt ignore you on it :/
shadow ermine
!log
rustic geyser
https://tenor.com/view/casino-oldpeople-oldpeopleonslots-slots-vegas-gif-2758608...
fuck, what a depressing sight
I say from the comfort of my 800 dollar gaming chair
throne*
shrewd shadow
Is there a major dps difference from manually clicking each button vs keybinds? I’ve been reluctant to try binds
short radish
nah not really
clickers vs pressers vs typers
is like 2% dps difference between them
shrewd shadow
Couldn’t imagine there being a big difference, I just can’t rewire my brain for it
Like watching shindigw play stresses me out with half his bars hidden
shrewd shadow
rustic geyser
I've met insanely proficient clickers before to be fair
but without a doubt it limits your skill ceiling, quicker than you'd realise
short radish
also depends how accurate you are at clicking
i suppose you get used to it
but it also means
you cant move your camera at teh same time
(unless you press keyboard to turn)
and if thats the case
it also means you cant turn as fast
rustic geyser
and your ability to on the fly read all the external information that you MIGHT have to engage with - depending on what level you play at
short radish
so yeah either way you are skill capped at some point
that being said
play however you feel comfortable
for the level of play that you are doing
like this guy
shrewd shadow
I mean I’m pushing keys and trying to myth raid lol nothing like top 100 guilds
rustic geyser
I fucking... we have people who keyboard turn in our raid
I had no idea right
till they had that "spinning issue" on the frost spider boss
in VOTI or whatever it was
and I'm like "wtf? spinning issue?"
and they're like "yeah if you're turning with your keyboard and get hit by this you just start infinitely spinning"
I'm like FUCKING TURNING WITH YOUR WHAT?\
shrewd shadow
Guess I’ll start rewiring my brain
I don’t move with my keyboard I use my mouse but that being said I’m losing dps
I have my whole rotation in order on my bar 
And just click across it lol
rustic geyser
unironically there's a hidden ultra giga meta if you can stomach being a fucking heretic and have an mmo mouse
you put your movement keys on your mouse... and just put all your attack keybinds on your keyboard
shrewd shadow
twilit phoenix
only pvp sweats do that really
shrewd shadow
you put your movement keys on your mouse... and just put all your attack keybind...
I mean there is that streamer who plays and moves with a track pad
So
rustic geyser
you know what though...
IFFFFFF I didn't have 20 years of muscle memory fighting my every thought of this movement / bind layout
IFFFFFFF I was looking at struggling through the rewiring process as is
Id just bite the bullet and do it
pure jay
its def because of my stats /s
lucid jackal
Simple yet effective
rustic geyser
Forevertrinity
shrewd shadow
Simple yet effective
rustic geyser
WHY ARE THOSE HOTDOGS?!
shrewd shadow
WHY ARE THOSE HOTDOGS?!
Because who doesn’t love a blue glizzy
twilit phoenix
Simple yet effective
lucid jackal
rustic geyser
omg that gif is a struggle to witness
lucid jackal
Probably terrible without even looking at it
hoary lotus
pure jay
1 button spec confirmed?!
pure jay
but "I'm item level 623"
AND HE'S PUMPING 😮
short radish
look I don't WANT to be THAT guy
i was just about to say that
also this only works in aoe???? this monkey is casting rupture into rupture again?
after shuriken storm
lucid jackal
I cant even tell what buttons hes pressing
rustic geyser
HE'S ALREADY DEAD!
lucid jackal
So I cant tell you how wrong his gameplay is
short radish
shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up
rustic geyser
did you macro that to type so many shut ups?
short radish
ONE MACRO A DAY
lucid jackal
but yeah I mean
lucid jackal
Probably a bad idea
can do more damage by just playing the spec properly
sub is extremely easy so
just learn2playu
short radish
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
rustic geyser
fingers dancing on the keyboard so fast
one macro a day makes you stronger they say
fuck
short radish
pure jay
short radish
get me out man
rustic geyser
that's it, I'm showing this to whispyr
short radish
pure jay
rustic geyser
<:Despairge:1000549314533269504>
fuck this is so doomer
that's the true black pill right there
that's the guy who joins those +7s while you're on your 34th alt
short radish
that's it, I'm showing this to whispyr
HAHAHAHAHA I JUST FOUND THE ASSASSINATION ONE
rustic geyser
HAHAHAHAHA I JUST FOUND THE ASSASSINATION ONE
omg
short radish
the assi one is so long
he has to have 2 macros
i now understand why when i invite some random 557 ret paladin with 4set
he does 2mill dps
rustic geyser
it's the true way of the 70% in the middle
nimble burrow
!wa sry for disturbing, i am here to find a DS tracker wa
wicked joltBOT
nimble burrow
have a nice day brothers
nimble burrow
clever delta
Damn i remember when lockedsprocket was hard
warm marlin
WHY DOES HE HAVE MORE
i watched so many
banger content
weird how the spriest one was easily the worst
exotic solstice
no incoming buffs
tribal blade
REEEEE
short radish
what're we dooming about today
one shot burst macros
tribal blade
one shot burst macros
hmmmmmmmmmmm
my macro spidey senses are tingling
something something don't macro everything together something
short radish
https://youtube.com/shorts/uMFfq1fUuk0?si=aKayB5x5LVPE_xA_ how good is this macr...
@tribal blade
you also need to see this
and suffer as we have
tribal blade
omfg wtf is that macro
short radish
tribal blade
ok i feel like
i just lost brain cells
watching that
oh i just ran a 10 floodgate trying to get a pacemaker
and realized my WAs don't update properly according to the cdr from the affix
so i sometimes sent symbols>evis on second dance and then was at 3 seconds left on sectec cd
when my sectec WA was showing it had ~10 secs left on cd
grand flame
Does anyone have a WA that only show shadow dances cooldown, not the atual duration. Why is SD implemented differently, than SoD....
I can only make it show cooldown when I use last stack, bet first stack always shows SD duration instead of cooldown. 😦
vale pine
alchemic chasos and versa are about the same, most players use versa because its more consistent
short radish
and realized my WAs don't update properly according to the cdr from the affix
i hate this affix
desyncing is so much fun
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fallow nimbus
That one button macro is cursed beyond everything
If it was atleast a little bit right with the rotation but everything is just so wrong
I can see how a macro would benefit norman normal who just wants to have a bit of fun after 9 hours getting yelled at from his boss in his underpaid office job
But not like this
glass jasper
alchemic chasos and versa are about the same, most players use versa because its...
And also being tanky is nice
lilac stag
Trink keeps getting desynced
Run the pvp trinket. Zero issues with desync
lilac stag
There’s only one we use. Badge. Link is on bloodmallet.
vale pine
^
alpine wraith
prized badge of ferocity
oblique delta
Getting 700 conquest is pretty easy
vale pine
you will still want cards in the long run
oblique delta
Went from skardyn 339 too cards 665, was 3,6% ST 😍
clever delta
Playing pvp trinket on sprocket is bless
Killing that boss tonight and than bye bye sub
Will be remembered
clever delta
What can guy possible know
vale pine
boss timers and required damage ^^
dry plank
@clever delta outlul time?
clever delta
I saw that one public log with sub rogue on bandit and wasn't impressed
Our cd timers do not sync with adds
alpine wraith
maybe he messed up because they do syn
with the bombs
@lucid jackal and @tepid trellis can confirm better as they are there i think
native zodiac
Our 2nd cd timer perfectly lines up with the fixate adds
I havent gotten further so dunno further timers
Theres defo sets of assistant spawns where you just sit there and do nothing
native zodiac
P much
The fight in general is pretty whack for melee imo atleast
Having to bait the coins so you cant move to adds properly constantly
clever delta
We did not do any prep for bandit as we did not think sprocket will die in on night
With our 9h a week raid time
native zodiac
Yea sprocket got murdered
Kinda annoying when you progressed the fights and then it just flops over in 1 pull after reset 
clever delta
Same as stixx
stiff stirrup
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
clever delta
We progressed before last nerf and killed right after
native zodiac
We progressed before last nerf and killed right after
@clever delta how far into bandit did you get
wraith solstice
Hello fellow Gamers, i just picked up Sub and i was wondering. is it correct that we have close to 0 haste and outside of Cooldowns we just chill very hard?
vale pine
Hello fellow Gamers, i just picked up Sub and i was wondering. is it correct tha...
both is correct
I did state it on purpose on wowhead because people starting to play subtlety often think they do something wrong if the pacing is so slow between cooldowns.
tribal blade
it took me a long time to get used to the downtime of sub after the rework
it really was practicing woo-sah to stay calm and not get omega tilted
keen dome
It was a pretty big change, haha
tribal blade
one of my guildies was going to play sub as his alt when sub was looking broken before this season, and he gave up because he couldn't take the downtime
oak idol
Do you weave in nimble flurry strikes alongside bp at 7+ targets?
fringe palm
Started taking adhd meds before raid instead of in the morning so I can play sub
tribal blade
Do you weave in nimble flurry strikes alongside bp at 7+ targets?
not really, nimble will just naturally cleave as you do your rotation
with coup and strikes
short radish
Getting 700 conquest is pretty easy
whats the easiest way to get the conquest for pvp trinket
just looting boxes that fly around?
tribal blade
iirc the weekly pvp quests
short radish
ahhh
boreal umbra
hey if we talent first dance do we do more then 8 globals or do we delay to secure full combo points at start of second dance ?
short radish
@waxen matrix do that
tribal blade
but i got HoC in my first vault so didn't need to do pvp stuff 😉
autumn glade
whats the easiest way to get the conquest for pvp trinket
i farmed it out in like 20 minutes from doing the pvp quests, there's even some in the bgs or epic bgs like wintergrasp that give 250 for killing 10 people
short radish
depending on how our sprocket prog continues i mgiht need to farm one so i dont have to use transmitter
its so aids with magnet
fringe palm
You could swap assa next week for it
short radish
i'd rather drag my balls through 10 km of broken glass thank you
tribal blade
sub is also just so much tankier
fringe palm
sub is also just so much tankier
That's cap
keen dome
So much tankier. It rules with this weeks affix
tribal blade
not a little tankier, much tankier
fringe palm
What
keen dome
Such ludicrous survivability
short radish
????
tribal blade
are you serious?
short radish
how is that cap
tribal blade
bro
stray rivet
How much you guys hit the highest for ur secret tech on ST?
keen dome
You should read your talents if you don't think Sub is tankier
tribal blade
sub has like triple the defensive talents and stacks vers
short radish
assi is most "fragile" rogue spec
sub you run around with passive 10% DR
and 140% movespeed
tribal blade
oak idol
I find outlaw the most tanky but thats problem because I dont know the sub rotation well
keen dome
And either 8% more incoming healing, or a 10% shield
tribal blade
fringe palm
Yeah not beeing able to press feint most of the fight without huge dmg loss is tanky, depends on the fight but sub feels giga bad in some encounters
autumn glade
we also stack vers on sub lol
fringe palm
If it's just rotting dmg sure
tribal blade
you also have like ~25-30% vers in raid depending on your gear
oak idol
I can have 100% uptime on feint if i wanted to on outlaw and like 10% evassion uptime
it feels really strong
short radish
Yeah not beeing able to press feint most of the fight without huge dmg loss is t...
brother if you are spamming feint the entire time your healers need to work harder
keen dome
Feint is OGCD now too, so like. The only time you are pushing it with a huge damage loss is if something has gone really wrong
short radish
and its also like
in sblades you have infinite energy
so you can feint whatever
and when youre out of cds, your damage is poop so just press it anyway
keen dome
And outside it doesn't matter 'cos you do no damage
tribal blade
you kinda dont even need to feint in cds because you're in dance with fade to nothing up
for most things
keen dome
Yeah
tribal blade
but yeah you don't lose much throwing feint in
fringe palm
I'll let my healers know their bad and I need to learn how rogue works o7
stray rivet
Is there soft cap on mastery?
short radish
Is there soft cap on mastery?
yes but we dont care about it
short radish
I'll let my healers know their bad and I need to learn how rogue works o7
healers must be abused and flamed so they know their place
tribal blade
i checked my damage taken on the first few fights of raid on mythic, i'm taking less damage than people who died early on in the fight
keen dome
Is there soft cap on mastery?
There's DR at 25,000 I think? But like, you don't care about it and don't need to think about it. Also % gain (So Flag) doesn't get diminishing returns, only raw mast does, as I understand it.
oak idol
healers must be abused and flamed so they know their place
Healers are inferior people 🗣️ 🔥
short radish
Healers are inferior people 🗣️ 🔥
wrong
keen dome
So you can just turn brain off stack mastery to the sky
tribal blade
being able to stack vers is such a massive blessing
short radish
i checked my damage taken on the first few fights of raid on mythic, i'm taking ...
im the opposite 
tribal blade
i feel like blizz needs to do something about that tbh
short radish
i can stand in more shit
tribal blade
haha fair enough 😉
short radish
dont look at my vexie damage taken
keen dome
i checked my damage taken on the first few fights of raid on mythic, i'm taking ...
I should check my damage taken on Vexie, actually
tribal blade
oh i didn't look at vexie tbh because it's not really a boss
tribal blade
Sub is not tankier
reeeEEE
somber ether
Sub is not tankier
Not tankier than who
keen dome
oh i didn't look at vexie tbh because it's not really a boss
It's the only boss I get to do!!!
oak idol
What the fuck are you doing
keen dome
(Also I'm shit at it)
short radish
What the fuck are you doing
standing in the oil slick
sly shore
Deathstalker assa, it's about the same even
short radish
honestly i didnt think it did that much damage
tribal blade
It's the only boss I get to do!!!
cauldron later 😉
oak idol
I think I took less damage running Killing Spree 💀
sly shore
Freedom of feint and evasion is good
fringe palm
Your healers are martyrs wtf bro
keen dome
cauldron later 😉
I'm leading my Mythic pugs now and let me tell you raid leading Mythic pugs is not a good time.
short radish
Your healers are martyrs wtf bro
im just helping them parse
it's what i'd do if i was healing
somber ether
Deathstalker assa, it's about the same even
Vers stacking + more defensive talents and sub is not tankier, okidoki
short radish
okay okay okay redemption for cauldron. bottom of meters except the warrior who died
sly shore
They hate him because he spoke the truth
keen dome
Also it's really hard to do good damage in Vexie pugs 'cos it's so chaotic and impossible to organize proper bike usage 😦
fringe palm
The game is not about rot dmg, Noone cars if you on average take 10% less dmg
Cares
In fights that are, yes sub is tanky
But that's not most fights
somber ether
That's crazy
short radish
you having a perma 20% DR
sly shore
Like pre nerf queen for example
short radish
is not just "oh who cares about rot damage"
somber ether
Our passive DR is the same as other classes' defensive cooldowns
short radish
^
fringe palm
Evasion hard carries
short radish
paladins have a 1min 20% DR (and some shitty shield)
and bubble i guess
we have a perma 20% dr
just by existing
tribal blade
i dunno i feel way safer whenever i play sub
short radish
same
keen dome
The only time the Sub rogue should be dying is if the raid has fully wiped.
sly shore
Lmao we're playing entirely different games then
keen dome
Or if they fell down the hole after an orb
tribal blade
i noticed it when i swapped from sin to sub on ovi
i could just live everything that would have killed me as sin
natty
fringe palm
Not to be elitist but at what level are you playing the game? That might explain a difference in opinion
somber ether
The only time the Sub rogue should be dying is if the raid has fully wiped.
Literally unkillable demon spec
sly shore
Then your defensive usage as assa was terrible
tribal blade
maybe
short radish
Then your defensive usage as assa was terrible
yeah it was. i press cloak to do damage
acutally no thats a lie
tribal blade
but it was more so getting hit by things i didn't intend to get hit by
short radish
i did press it on pain points
sly shore
The only thing that did damage on ovinax was the swirlies so I ate them like breakfast
tribal blade
suddenly on sub i was chilling
short radish
but i dunno howanyone can argue assi is more tanky than sub rogue
sly shore
Who's arguing that
sly shore
Equivalence is a wonderful thing
keen dome
Make him 1 v 1 a Sub rogue
fringe palm
I disagreed with someone saying sub is way tankier
sly shore
Evasion and far more freedom to feint
short radish
sub has evasion though?
sly shore
Sub cannot feint outside cds without pooling
somber ether
I love pressing feint on sin and drinking a fucking tea
short radish
or is this some deathstalker thing
sly shore
You act like you run elu
somber ether
It's great!
fringe palm
Deathstalker evasion
short radish
wait
sly shore
Then ur bad rofl
keen dome
Evasion gives magic DR and Cloak gives phys DR on nightstalker iirc?
somber ether
I mean if you can't press feint outside CDs as sub you're trolling too big guy
fringe palm
Bro why are we even arguing 
short radish
Bro why are we even arguing <a:ICANT:969218093052207124>
killing time before dinner
sly shore
Bro why are we even arguing <a:ICANT:969218093052207124>
People love to be confidently wrong
At least they say it with their chest
keen dome
Because we're on the internet in a class discord with fierce opinions.
1v1 me in the gallywix hole
short radish
my opinion = based
all other opinions = cringe
short radish
my mother tells me im right
keen dome
i think we can all agree that Rogue is really tanky though
short aurora
!wa
wicked joltBOT
short radish
but i dont wanna agree 😦
keen dome
So why don't we have a tank spec?
somber ether
That would mean agreeing with other people
I think sin rogue is very squishy.
Literally squishier than hunter
short radish
i dunno i'll still die on the hill that sub rogue is tankier than sin rogue
keen dome
So do I but I get their point that it has way more freedom, esp with DS, for purposeful defensive usage. Whereas Sub is just naturally more tanky via passive DR's and stuff.
So the whole big hit v rot
short radish
- vers is basically the DR bait and switch
keen dome
But as my brain is rotted I require more tankiness against it
tribal blade
don't forget this too
tribal blade
from trickster
short radish
short radish
no wonder
somber ether
5% from trickster, 10% from talent, 15% from versa
short radish
that passive 19.5% DR
somber ether
Put a nice little feint on top of that
short radish
i guess you can also proc fade to nothing by using vanish as a defensive
also running around at 164% movement speed
makes it so much easier to dodge shit
somber ether
The virgin sin "I have to press evasion for 20% DR"
Vs the CHAD sub "my passive DR is 30%"
short radish
sly shore
No one is saying assa is tankier
You're the ones saying that we said that
We are saying assa is just as tanky
keen dome
The invented man within our minds is wrong
sly shore
In a different way
short radish
yeah i've invented a strawman which i have achieved victory over
keen dome
🫡
short radish
somber ether
The true winners are outlaw rogues
short radish
true
short radish
i dunno if i would hate to play assi or outlaw more
on one hand assi bores me to death
on the otherhand i dont want to get carpal tunnel
somber ether
It's fine just put 5 different keybinds for sinister strike and dispatch so you can change what fingers you're destroying mid fight
And put BtE on mousewheel
Ez
short aurora
!up
wicked joltBOT
short radish
nah i need mousewheel to zoom my camera
somber ether
0% haste type shit
short radish
i am beyond cooked
somber ether
my rupture is bound to f3
Wtaf
short radish
tribal blade
i think blizz needs to do something about DR on vers
it's kind of unfair that some specs get to be tankier just by the sole fact vers is a better stat for them
can't believe i'm even saying it as we benefit from it a lot
young trench
Just use a hotkey for max camera zoom
I have 3 zoom options bound to my numpad
tribal blade
realz still reads this channel
hmmmmmm does he really
(hey realz if you're reading this we need a faster way to apply rupture so we can keep up in mass aoe, please and ty)
short radish
Perhaps an aoe rupture, some form of ability where it is a tempest of bleeds
Perhaps a crimson tempest
keen dome
i think blizz needs to do something about DR on vers
Just have versa on every gear as a stat everyone gets
fringe palm
If vers is a good stat the spec has other issues with "good" stats just beeing dogshit, we take the dr as compensation for class design
tribal blade
Just have versa on every gear as a stat everyone gets
MMM interesting
keen dome
So we go back to haste/mastery/crit as the three stats
tribal blade
that is true, vers being good just means you don't have other stats that are good
keen dome
And every single item has Versa on it too. So you just naturally do more damage / take less as you gear. As a soft 'boost' to ALL player power over time
tribal blade
could be a cool idea
keen dome
So an item would be Crit / Mastery and then have like, 100 versatility on it
And at max ilevel it might have 300 or something I dunno
tribal blade
sounds a bit like old school pvp gear resilience
fringe palm
Maybe you could change vers to just give hp then if every item has it
And maybe rename
keen dome
I think Damage% done and damage reduction% makes the most sense
If you are doing pure Hp you'd just roll more stamina into gear
Two issues I forsee are: damage differential between those who have full Myth and those that don't being even wider (but this is pretty whatever anyway and may be a positive for people who are more casual, or play less competently)
And the other being swapping to new season gear being weird if they don't scale or increase Versatility on new pieces. I.e., you have 25% in full S1 Myth. Then swap to new season stuff and suddenly drop to 10%
You could keep it as a seasonal buff though where it's only active on the gear during the season. As an incentive to swap to new stuff sooner for this passive dr/dam stat.
because in my mind Versa is a very dumb stat that doesn't really do anything useful, but it has the potential to be really effective as a soft 'power++' to players over time in a season.
proven plover
I know its probably not the best reference, but on a pserver they introduced new stats called pve- and pvp power, which increased your dmg and reduced dmg taken in the given scenario. Each pve piece had a set amound of pve power, values dependant on gear slots, while there was also a cap you could reach by having all slots filled with pve gear.. but it would kinda destroy the possibility of wearing pvp gear for pve and vice versa which would be weird on retail
alpine wraith
i will end the tier with 30k+ mastery trust
the finishers will be glorious i tell you!
keen dome
I know its probably not the best reference, but on a pserver they introduced new...
Ye, I mean I think that's more or less what I'm thinking with Versa
keen dome
i will end the tier with 30k+ mastery trust
I believe
short radish
I'm stacking no way!
youve taken more than 1 point of vers. it's so jover for you as assi
alpine wraith
what is the max
havent checked tbh but i know at least 29k or so is doable
ideally i also want vers on the gear so that makes things harder
alpine wraith
jastor is a 1/6 spread
so that is quite important
circe gives a truckload when you have high mastery anyway
sly shore
yeah
alpine wraith
engi helm+wrist is also a lot
warm marlin
Perhaps an aoe rupture, some form of ability where it is a tempest of bleeds
I propose rupture tornado
alpine wraith
other things may be harder but belt there are quite some with big mastery even if second stat is crit
it is fine
keen dome
If only there was a trashmaster for mastery
quiet tartan
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
@keen dome my guild started stix prog earlier today
and i'm sorry to say i don't think it's puggable
keen dome
Absolutely isn't, yeah
I think Mythic is going to be sqaurely Vexie and eventually Cauldron
tribal blade
requires all 20 people in the raid to be able to ball roll
tribal blade
rik isn't too bad
keen dome
But I think it'll just be the first two this season.
tribal blade
rik will be definitely puggable with more gear and the raid buff
when you can blow up adds fast
keen dome
The biggest issue is that nobody will join a Cauldron group though, if you've killed Vexie. So you either kill it in a few pulls or the raid collapses.
frail swift
and i'm sorry to say i don't think it's puggable
i find your lack of faith disturbing
tribal blade
The biggest issue is that nobody will join a Cauldron group though, if you've ki...
big true
tribal blade
i find your lack of faith disturbing
nah i think i'm right 😉
keen dome
But Vexie is extremely free in pugs atm, which is nice. I got myth boots yesterday from her.
tribal blade
rik isn't too complicated
the hardest part about rik atm is people getting mc'd during intermissions and killing the adds fast enough
keen dome
My heroic feeling is that the first 5 are free now, OAB is a huge pain point, then Mug'zee and Gally die if you get to them and people stick around for 2 - 3 pulls.
tribal blade
it's funny because i didn't find bandit hard at all, but i've only done it with my super organized guild group
so i'm literally just running around pressing dps buttons ahha
keen dome
- Someone will pick up a coin and not dunk it / nobody will pick up a coin / someone will panic dunk the wrong coin = wipe
- Someone will run into the fixated boxes on the second roulette spin and wipe the group.
tribal blade
ahhh i see
keen dome
Mug'zee is suuuper solved for pugs, and you can immediately see who isn't paying attentio and replace them. You just do 1/3 and 2/4 for gaols on two marks (left / right) on all 3 fo them. Same groups alternating the big soak. And at the end of the fight you swap sides with the big bomb spawn.
There's no real thought needed for it since you can just RW all mechanics
And one or two people can carry the harder bits
Bandit wouldn't be an issue if you had to click to pick up the coin.
tribal blade
mmm good points
keen dome
Almost all my pug wipes have stemmed from someone picking up a coin and not noticing.
And if you hit P2 in a pug then it's almost always a kill because P2 is super easy
frail swift
nah i think i'm right 😉
clever delta
<@165931950123515905> how far into bandit did you get
Did not pull yet, we started sprocket yesterday and finishing today
sly shore
just find a guild ffs
clever delta
But you can give me some pro tips if you have
sly shore
pugging is literally self mutilation
keen dome
haha
alpine wraith
find a guild then get benched like the rest of us
keen dome
I have a guild! I've been with them for 15 years. They're terrible. I love them.
clever delta
Kpb how was bandit
alpine wraith
then have to find a guild again
sly shore
Kpb how was bandit
first night tonight
alpine wraith
it will be fun
sly shore
sprocket was a good fight
keen dome
Hell yeah, blast
sly shore
really good fight actually
keen dome
I like him a lot on heroic
sly shore
kinda crazy going from the worst mythic boss I've ever progged to a really good one
void hound
overall kind of a stinker tier in terms of gameplay tho
not looking forward to mug zee
clever delta
Ass we go
vale pine
pugging is literally self mutilation
even more reason to think about a soloq mode
tribal blade
i agree, stix is just a visual clusterfuck of a fight
sly shore
it's not even that
it's that the gimmick of the fight is bad
in combination with the other mechanics
tribal blade
ball rolling? yea
tribal blade
sometimes your pathing feels so free and chill
sometimes it's something out of hell
it feels a bit too pass/fail in that regard
and every single melee on my raid team is not having fun atm haha
our enhance suggested to our RL going ele
i told him he should go ele the other night and he was like "nah, i'll just play well as enhance"
1 night on stix and immediately wants to go ele
idle holly
Haven't played since s1, coming back heard sub was in a good place but saw there were some changes, r sub still in a good place or back to mediocrity
keen dome
Sub is real good right now
keen dome
We aren't the best. But we are strong and comfy and tanky and purple and do good damage.
keen dome
Hell yeah more sub rogues
paper rock
Sub is real good right now
sly shore
Sub is good in damage
absolutely terrible in everything else
plays like shit
talents are like 0.5% dps
cursive vapor
We aren't the best. But we are strong and comfy and tanky and purple and do good...
we are damn awesome and cool
sly shore
trickster is okay at least
deathstalker was sent from the 7th circle of hell by Dante himself
idle holly
Don't tell me it's the outlaw meta 
tribal blade
DS is one of the worst systems i've played with in this game ever
i want it to die in a fire
with me peeing over it's corpse
it's actually insulting blizz thinks they made something cool and engaging to play with
keen dome
Why couldn't they have done one hero tree for each spec instead of the weird dual thing
so annyoing
vagrant fulcrum
deathstalker was sent from the 7th circle of hell by Dante himself
it's wild to think how bad deathstalker fits for sub compared to sin
no amp poison, no spatter to make darkest night function in aoe, lingering is extra wack
sly shore
it's just terribly designed
for both specs
the fact it's tied to an ambush from stealth
is ridiculous
keen dome
It's absurd
sly shore
just remove the stealth conditional
keen dome
Yeah
sly shore
make it applied with mut or ambush
the only downside is moving mark in aoe, but skill issue if you overwrite it
idle holly
Everyone saying how sub is good
else its outlawl?
lilac stag
the raid profile fits outlaw just fine and it’s the highest tuned of the specs currently.
lilac stag
What is this cope Monday m
Just returning back to 11.0 mental. Nothing to see here.
feral barn
Hello everyone, it seems some things changed in the opener of sub rogue, we don't vanish/strike/evi before going into dance ?
lilac stag
It’s a simplified opener. No loss in dps. Been like that for a few weeks now.
feral barn
Why there would be a simplified opener if the dps is the same ?
winter python
Why there would be a simplified opener if the dps is the same ?
Why would there be a more complex opener if the dps was the same?
feral barn
So basically we donnt vanish right ?
tribal blade
it gifts you a vanish to use however you see fit
feral barn
Yes i like it, just want to be sure i'm doing the best rotation i can do
tribal blade
yeah it's good, everyone is doing it dw
feral barn
Alright intresting, i see that we also backstab now at start of the burst
Day 1 i asked and got replied that it wasn't worth anymore
tribal blade
it hasn't been worth in a while, but it's changed now with the new tier
feral barn
Oh okay ! Noted, thanks
One last, on the second dance during burst, since we Evi / Symbols-evi / SecTec, i guess it's a loss to backstab after that ?
solemn creek
Its not
glass jasper
I love subrogue but I'm gearing my hunter now and I gotta say it's quite sweet to not spend all my time in the swirleyriddled clusterfuck called melee-area
crystal bone
melee is ass 
keen yew
What do you guys think of my collection ? (nm hm mm mm warblund) I'm missing the lfr one to make it complete...
sly shore
very small collection
autumn flame
It's actually insane how much more you see while playing ranged 
keen yew
My shocked face when I usually have to wait 2 months to have a single dagger and these drops
sly shore
I have since added to this
leaden prairie
alpine wraith
i think i ended the tier with like 11 igira daggers
keen dome
That's a lot of daggers, geez
autumn flame
How long does it take to get the legendary daggers?
sly shore
few weeks
maybe more
it's just do raid get item
hand in quest get more item
then do raid and get item but don't use it
devout quarry
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen steppe
I never get one until s4 in sl and now i get every transmogrun atleast 1 eon...
valid yoke
Hey guys! New to sub rogue - I seem to be having a lot of downtime where my energy is just gigafucked… is that just the nature of the spec cos I can’t really see where I’d be going wrong here. It seems like I just have to wait for symbols or shadow dance or etc to come back up
Any ideas?
alpine wraith
yea we go like that
valid yoke
Okay so do I just use symbols etc on cd at that point?
Or do I want for them to fully stack charges?
lost kite
You need to make sure you have enough symbols for flag and always symbol with sectec
alpine wraith
you need to be able to dance 2 times and use 2 symbols
so have at least 1 charge of dance and at most 20 secs left for next
and 1 stack of symbols and at most 10 secs for next
opaque crypt
just came back after stopping in DF. is there ever a time where you would hold Coup de Grace if the target is not fazed? i can see maybe if youre not in a dance/symbols timeframe, but not sure. kinda seems like you just let it ride otherwise
valid yoke
and 1 stack of symbols and at most 10 secs for next
Gotcha thanks
patent crystal
When will there be a dagger with funny effect again
feel like it should be time soon
tribal blade
just came back after stopping in DF. is there ever a time where you would hold C...
yes you only ever want to press coup when your target is fazed
which will be most of the time because of how coup procs your target will have fazed by default
there isn't really a need to hold coup for dance
opaque crypt
gotcha. so the natural flow of things should managed it passively, but something to keep an eye on just in case
tribal blade
yeah if you ever do something like hold coup for upcoming cds you'll want to make sure your target has fazed
which you can guarantee by sectecing 1st finisher
keen steppe
Its time for a new rogue legendary
tribal blade
then you can coup 2nd finisher since your target will guaranteed have fazed from sectec
opaque crypt
then you can coup 2nd finisher since your target will guaranteed have fazed from...
appreciate the insight. thx man
hazy breach
When will there be a dagger with funny effect again
Im afraid no fun allowed. Items in general must be weak this expansion it seems
vale pine
wdym
many of us still play the "fun" simon says inspired trinket
isn't thta peak of design for "fun"
alpine wraith
fun is looking at embellish from a past expansion and seeing they give more stats
crystal bone
u guys are nuts, why play simon says when u can just wear house of cards 
tribal blade
bring back banshee's blight and put it in our talent tree
hazy breach
fun is looking at embellish from a past expansion and seeing they give more stat...
Do i want 1300 stats at lvl 70
Or 850 stats at lvl 80
tribal blade
haha bring back prep and stealthi has to make the spreadsheet again
void hound
playing transmitter during beams + rockets on sprocket just to feel something
hazy breach
(its not that simple as the tww one has slightly higher uptime, but still, it should be noticeably better)
tribal blade
in a way it's nice that embels aren't as strong because it's a lot easier to swap between specs now
but now it's kind of like why do they even exist then
void hound
i think its lame, another one of those fake choices
then again, gearing is by all accounts really cringe in this game so its kinda whatever
tribal blade
i think embels should be swapped out for another system
alpine wraith
this patch gearing is so dull
i basically spammed m+ for 1 week
now my only looking forward is crafted items
oh and vault
because M raid is perma bench
tribal blade
weekly vault is my favorite time of the week
i'd like to play with something like artifact weapons again
potent summit
bring back banshee's blight and put it in our talent tree
This would be perfect for sub and also give us kinda execute
tribal blade
This would be perfect for sub and also give us kinda execute
i would honestly be fine if they took away the execute part of it and just made it a % chance on CPs spent to do X dmg
viscid rune
!wa
wicked joltBOT
potent summit
It’s shadow dmg aswell and goes with the class fantasy
tribal blade
because sin is supposed to be the execute spec of rogue and apparently only sin can have everything all the other rogue specs have
but yeah it goes very well with the class fantasy
brings back sub funnel in a way (which used to be our thing)
potent summit
Take away rotten and give banshees blight
tribal blade
rotten right now actually works very well with how sub plays
i would say replace goremaw's
that spell is worthless
potent summit
Ya but you won’t take rotten
If banshees is there on the menu for goremaws
I guess
tribal blade
i think overall sub needs quite a bit of talent tree overhaul
there's a lot of spells that do basically nothing
potent summit
Ya but too few people playing it
tribal blade
we're kinda locked into 1 build
potent summit
So Blizz doesn’t care
tribal blade
my hope is we get given the shammy treatment
where they went from being mostly ignored to being one of the most iterated on specs this expac
potent summit
The problem is Blizz needs people assigned for every spec. But they don’t have enough people for it
tribal blade
it's truly a mess on their end
tribal blade
hahaha we had this discussion way back, i think during the big DF rework
it would be a slam dunk on blizz's end, everyone loves it
all the design work has been done for the spell
fits the class theme
twilit phoenix
tribal blade
but no, we're bringing back spells nobody likes like thistle tea for some reason
mint swift
but no, we're bringing back spells nobody likes like thistle tea for some reason
I think it's just cause most of the people that brew it put in this weird, offbrand sugar
I think if they decided to get a higher quality sugar it would taste better
Heard jade forest makes some good stuff
tribal blade
they could shove all the milk and sugar they wanted into tea and i still wouldn't like it 😦
rustic pond
is there an add on / wa that track when Coup de grace is enabled ? i just want to add this to my setup not an complete wa ui
or how to create it in wa if someone know
mint swift
they could shove all the milk and sugar they wanted into tea and i still wouldn'...
Meh you never know!
I thought that was p bad but Pandaren produced sugar is actually really nice
I used to put the milk from onah'ran plains in it too, but given that it's most likely ffrom the centaurs themselves, i wasn't comfortable drinking it
mint swift
is there an add on / wa that track when Coup de grace is enabled ? i just want t...
P sure you just make something that
Tracks if the buff is up or not
When i played sub season 1 thats what i did
Just made a big glowing sign that screamed if it was up
Did the same thing for Clear the witness
rustic pond
yep thats what im looking for
tribal blade
i made my own WA for coup like that too
rustic pond
but i dont really know how to setup it in wa
rustic pond
by myself
tribal blade
they have these pretty simple template ones that guide you through them
you can just tinker around with it and eventually figure it out
tribal blade
if an imbecile like me could figure it out you can too
rustic pond
thanks
tribal blade
another way is to just find an existing WA that screams you have a spell up
and then edit the spell to be coup instead of whatever it was before
that was actually how i taught myself to do WAs
was looking at what people did for existing WAs
and tinkering with them to mold them into what i wanted
tribal blade
hahaaaa
yes for right now
because it's a new season
not really any time to do stuff like pet battling
shrewd shadow
not really any time to do stuff like pet battling
How fucking dare you, there is always time for knock off Pokémon
tribal blade
How fucking dare you, there is always time for knock off Pokémon
nahhh i'm too busy suffering in keys and raid 😉
shrewd shadow
shrewd shadow
nahhh i'm too busy suffering in keys and raid 😉
That’s why I have two screens up, one with my “main” raiding and my real main off pet battles
Gotta multi task
tribal blade
i'm honestly looking forward to just chilling and pet battling again
vagrant thorn
because M raid is perma bench
So youre basically a pugger like me now 😋its not so bad
alpine wraith
it is so sad i dont want to leave my guild
but if it continues like that
it is so annoying
vagrant thorn
i'm honestly looking forward to just chilling and pet battling again
Pet battles are too hard, I tried so much to do a daily in Undermine, used recommended pets, still got destroyed
shrewd shadow
Pet battles are too hard, I tried so much to do a daily in Undermine, used recom...
Have you tried hitting them harder than they hit you?
shrewd shadow
vagrant thorn
ez solution, make mythic raid solo queue and m+ too 🙂
then we can play whatever we want
alpine wraith
that would be a funny clown fiesta tbh
shrewd shadow
ez solution, make mythic raid solo queue and m+ too 🙂
Did a pug vexie the other on myth wasn’t bad
paper iron
dont ever say again embellish are bad 
shrewd shadow
Only took 10 pulls or so
paper iron
that was just 46mn of tricks and throwing stuff to farm rep
lethal yew
Hey so quick question on mythic reverb. We got the kill last week but I was playing sin and definitely lacking in add dmg. On sub do you hold your cds for the 1st set of adds?
That's what all the top logs did it looked like
mint swift
So youre basically a pugger like me now 😋its not so bad
"It's not so bad"
paper iron
Hey so quick question on mythic reverb. We got the kill last week but I was play...
yes u do
paper iron
check lorrgs to get all the timing and all
mint swift
This was a 7 i was doing on my hunter
paper iron
but tldr : 1st cd at 14s
tribal blade
dont ever say again embellish are bad <:Kappa:675691839881216001>
wait what how'd it go that high
mint swift
Soemone just left after litch
mint swift
But still like
paper iron
that s 45mn of throwing shuriken
paper iron
that s my shuriken toss
tribal blade
ah ok haha
paper iron
How do you do that low as fire mage
most mages are super giga bad, idk how ngl but they re just super giga bad
paper iron
like mage damage abilities and rotation is really easy, i would say defensive / utility wise it s probably the hardest
but damage wise
lethal yew
Yeah I was looking at lorrgs to get an idea. That fight was a pita, our comp is/was lacking in spread cleave so we would nuke the stacked barrels but 2 or 3 would spawn in Narnia and it felt so bad to hard swap as sin
paper iron
idk how some mages are just so bad