subtlety

[crystal bone]

shaman buff op

[hot bridge]

Whenever i pop SD with SoD is i more effiecent to Shadowstrike ST and Evis targets or is more effiectent to Shadowstrike ST Evis BP and Shirken to gain dmg for Dense Macbre?

[lost kite]

Sometimes you get 5 but someone mentioned earlier you still send finisher at 5 in dance

If you happen to get 5

[crystal bone]

wait really? the wowhead guide says to finish at 6+ always

[lucid jackal]

Only danse optimization is your first generator after dance shold be backstab

[lost kite]

Yeah idk someone said here earlier it’s bad to send 2 generators back to back

So you just do 5 cp finish if in dance

Outside I think you go 6-7

[light imp]

i rarely ever dont have 6+ cp inside dance with shadow techniques saving me CP

[crystal bone]

is that true guy?

[lost kite]

It’s only if in dance to send after only 1 shadowstrike

Outside always generate too 6-7

[light imp]

yeah too many opportunities to waste combo points inside dance

[hot bridge]

so the guide tells me to add backstab in rotation to stack Dense Macbre and it makes sense cause on the charts i pop up to 4.2m dps and ive tried just SS and Evis compaired to doing a huge rotation with all ablities durring SD

[lucid jackal]

yes

[crystal bone]

well damn ok

[light imp]

its a .5% optimization, honestly i just don't even do it

[lucid jackal]

Wait is what true

what rae u asking

[hot bridge]

ok

[lost kite]

About the 5 cp finishers in dance

He’s asking

[crystal bone]

do u finish at 5 cp after a shadowstrike in dance

[lucid jackal]

ya

afaik ya

[crystal bone]

okay

[lucid jackal]

Er

No

Like

U generate at 5

U might want to double checkw ith @hazy breach

[crystal bone]

the wowhead guide says to finish at 6+ always

[light imp]

if you only have 5cp after a shadow strike inside dance you should send it, because another SS would be a waste of combo points imo

[crystal bone]

so i was confused

[light imp]

you'll overcap and lose

outside of dance 6+

[lucid jackal]

overcapping is fine

[crystal bone]

i dont notice being stuck at 5 cp after a shadowstrike in raid

i notice it in keys a lot tho

[paper iron]

i ve aksed it couple time and yea the answer is that if you re at 5cp in dance u still strike. it s 6+ at any condition

[lucid jackal]

ya cuz in riad u have shaman buff

[crystal bone]

shaman op

[paper iron]

because actually if u finish at 5, the next strike u ll do will give u 5cp most likely and so you re on a reazlly bad cycle

[crystal bone]

i see

[robust igloo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hot bridge]

So Shadow Tech stores the CP you cap out on and it helps so Going over is fine

[light imp]

i thought it was just the CP That shadow techniques itself generates

[lucid jackal]

It does

using strike on 5 will keep your shadowcraft charges though

[light imp]

yeah so if i cast a Shadow stike at 5 cp wouldn't i lose 1 or 4 if weaponmaster procs?

[lucid jackal]

So when u go

Strike strike evis strike

that last strike will fill you

[hot bridge]

yeah CP is stored through Shadow Tech and ive tested with capping in SD

[lucid jackal]

also this is only a problem in keys

More or less

Which means that u dont have wm

Ud be wasting 1 CP

cuz improved ambush

[hot bridge]

true

[light imp]

i run wm in keys O.o

[lucid jackal]

dont

[paper iron]

Don t !

[light imp]

someone better update wowhead then

[tired hound]

first dance too good

[light imp]

because its ripped straight from the wowhead talent build

[paper iron]

imma check

if it s not the case

you re banned

[light imp]

D:

[tired hound]

oof, o7

[lucid jackal]

?

[paper iron]

yea i dont see wm

you re banned !

[light imp]

this link

[paper iron]

oh

this one does

[light imp]

euheuheuehuhee

no ban for me

[hazy breach]

Its like -0.2% or something to finish at 5, so it doesnt really matter that much

But why bother with more complicated rules when it doesnt improve performance

Better to just say 6+ everywhere

[hot bridge]

idk about the wm but i do know in keys 5 or 6 CP is very similar in dmg

[paper iron]

not the deathstalker one tho

it s just an error

[lucid jackal]

K i fixed it for him

Should give u the proper build now

[hot bridge]

wait why run shiriken storm when ur running weaponmaster

[lucid jackal]

cuz the alternative is shadow focus which is a 0.1% dps talent

and on many st fights, you press storm at least like, 3-5 times

[blissful tartan]

At equal ilvl, is Eye of Kezan or Zee's Thug Hotline better for M+? I feel like Eye doesn't get full benefit since packs are short, but simming dungeon slice, it always says Eye.

[lucid jackal]

In which storm is better

[light imp]

i like shuri storm cause you can free crit with SoD which gives FW to everyone

[hot bridge]

like if ur running weaponmaster your Single Target is great to push out for AoE and Shirken Strom is flat AoE so i wouldnt run both talents

[lucid jackal]

What

[hazy breach]

I think youre under the assumption that weaponmaster is a talent thats worth more than like 1%

[paper iron]

i would say depends on pugs or premade? Kezan isnt that bad in m+ if you dont have that much downtime. Otherwise i would guess thug is definitly better if you re pug tank take a coffee break inbetween pulls

[hazy breach]

Its an absolute dogshit talent, and it doesnt do anything at all for aoe

But so are the other alternatives to get inev so

[paper iron]

bad or less bad

[hazy breach]

TFD is good if you get a decent amount of resets for it, but even if you dont its way better than weaponmaster for aoe

[blissful tartan]

Ah, I thought it immeadietly dropped stack when dropping combat, just decays. Ty!

[upper narwhal]

I love being forced to take a sub 1% talent for pathing reasons :)))

multiple times :)))

[paper iron]

it lose a stack every 3s or so, it s not insta deplete

can maybe find some zac logs

[lucid jackal]

Bruh tf else would u take

Planned exeuction

half the sub talents are just window dressing anyway

[hot bridge]

weaponmaster just increases backstab dmg and chance to dupeplicate it but with Hidden Blade you spread like 50% dmg so it helps with Single target and AoE. im not knocking Shirken storm but im saying it viable to run it but not with both

[light imp]

Does nimble flurry get effected by armor? like is the 60% cleave damage flat or is that ALSO effected by armor, like hitting a target with FW would ignore 30% armor then the nimble flurry damage hits a target with FW would that nimble damage ignore 30% of that targets armor?"

[blissful tartan]

It just only procced one time in the dungeon I just did, so made me rethink it

[upper narwhal]

Gloomblade ofc

[paper iron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1352787214924386355/image.png?ex=67e14305&is=67dff185&hm=17971a1aa52ab8d27de8ec451135fe777098a0ff97720bcaba74a392c80b7c3b&

[lucid jackal]

I dont understand what ur saying

[paper iron]

doesnt look that bad if u chain enough see

[hot bridge]

GL going out to eat

[lucid jackal]

ok

[paper iron]

imp storm is mostly for rotten to proc fw on everything

[hazy breach]

the extra strikes from weaponmaster doesnt cleave

[paper iron]

oh really, i didnt know about it

cool spec

[lucid jackal]

I mean even if it did

I dont think itd bt that good

[obtuse shard]

why does my flag doesnt get reset after boss pulled wtf

[paper iron]

90s cd life

[hazy breach]

Yes, if you have FW up on other targets they will take 10% more damage from nimble

[upper narwhal]

WM cleaving strikes during dance would at least make it a not completely dogshit talent in AoE

but we can't even get that

[hazy breach]

But thats not enough to warrant using storm over strike in dance

[paper iron]

on trindral since we were dying a lot on pull, i just forfeit on asking 60s pull timers

i just did 300 pulls without cd on pull i felt fine, anyway my only job was to ride an ugly dragon

[blissful tartan]

Sent you a dm, my shit looks like nothing like that lol

[hallow sigil]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cloud kestrel]

Is nimbles damage range based off mobs proximity to you, or to your primary target?

[hazy breach]

Its based on you

[hoary coyote]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom adder]

how do you use your dances between the 1:30 windows? right now i just waited until sectec is either off cd or within 10 seconds and used it as first or second finisher in that dance. Should i always wait for it to be off cd with 5cp to use it as first gcd in dance, or is my way what you would do?

[hazy breach]

When sectech is close to getting ready think about if you dance&symbols here, will you still be able to use 2 of them for flag?

If the answer is yes ill still be able to use two during flag, then go ahead

If the answer is no or maybe, then dont

[fathom adder]

ty. Yes i use max 2 or 1 dance between cds. Was just wondering regarding the sectec cd, if it is okay to use it as second finisher or if i should wait a few seconds more and use it as the first in those cdless dances. It will not be a big difference either way, i guess

[outer scaffold]

Hey everyone! Can anyone recommend any WeakAuras or other addons that would allow me to signal my group, especially the tank, when I enter Stealth? I want to avoid any accidental chain pulling. Something straightforward and effective would be ideal. Thanks in advance for any tips!

[indigo steppe]

How do you handle it in m+ when you're in a pull and flag has like 20 seconds left but it's getting to a point where your team really needs the damage on a big pull?

[hazy breach]

Well either you send the dance to finish of the pack or you hold onto the dance and the packs kills you and you wipe

If it wouldnt kill you then just hold

[hazy breach]

Sub doesnt care about restealths at all

[indigo steppe]

Yeah that's what I'm trying to figure out as I get more used to it some of these dhs pull like crazy

[shadow trench]

Sub y'all.
Question real quick.

• Cold Blood, will you hold that for big dmg or just send on cd with secret technique?
  as in, is it most important to get many usages > paired with something big

[wind cove]

any good weakaura for darkest night?

[indigo steppe]

I treat cold blood like 90s cd tbh everytime I try to be cute with it I end up screwing myself

[hearty moat]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Its better to use it only during shadow blades (with your second secret technique) than it is to macro it to secret technique and use it on coolown

[void hound]

depending on the fight you can squeeze more uses out by using it inbetween flag windows
however execution can be tight since you dont want to delay your flag burst because you used cb before

since as eleem alluded to, you always want CB for your big burst

[rain ingot]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[full wyvern]

damn, almost beat the fire mage

[crystal bone]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[viral phoenix]

How hard do you guys minmax TFD? I'll leave the party and afk for 6 seconds if it looks like I'll only use 1 dance onn the next pack

[paper iron]

i dont really play arround it personnally, the only time i consider it is if we re out of combat for 5s ish then i sit in stealth a bit

but since my guys like to chain pull it never happen

[vagrant fulcrum]

@hazy breach im wondering how much of a loss the icy veins rotation changes compared to apl are

im guessing v minor

[hazy breach]

What

Whats the "icy veins rotation changes"

[hazy breach]

Most of the time its just waiting an additional 1.5 seconds or something before jumping into the pack to make sure its up. You can do some schenanigans with vanishing when a mob has like 5% left to start the timer early but eh

[vagrant fulcrum]

stuff like not eviscerating early in opener, might be old info on my part

[hazy breach]

The timer is often very janky and doesnt start immediately so not sure how worth that ends up being overall

[hazy breach]

Skipping the evis in the opener was neutral, aka no change in the sim

[winged nymph]

hey guys, is it still important to use as much different abilities before using Secret Technique like it was in dragonflight?

[hazy breach]

So we opted to recommend it because its easier to say "just do the opener again" when cds are back

(and on certain fights using your cds 2 seconds earlier actually matters)

[burnt panther]

hi In a pack of +12 mobs it is shadow strike + Black Powder ////// Shuriken Storm + Black Powder?

[vagrant fulcrum]

so im right in thinking that there's no concessions made

[hazy breach]

Yep

[wheat elk]

can i ask a questionD:

[sturdy moat]

no

[acoustic lodge]

Is olden signet any good?

[sturdy moat]

priory signet?

[sly shore]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[burnt panther]

I think I asked my question wrong xd

[clever delta]

Is there any tech for sprocket

[hazy breach]

You asked if you should be using shadowstrike or shuriken storm ye?

What builder* you should be using in dance

[wheat elk]

gonna ask anyway, @hazy breach if you already got 8 stacks of tierset, and you just used blades, after the first dance finishes are you immidiately using dance again not to lose the stacks? and would you re-use Sod even if 4 seconds left of it left for the supercharger secteq?

[hazy breach]

You always use shadow dance immediately after the first one ends, tierset or no

[sly shore]

hit boss til it dies

[hazy breach]

And then you symbols when sectech has 10 seconds left of its cooldown

[wheat elk]

so you use 1 supercharger for the 10sec cd reduction and the next 1 for the secteq itself?

[hazy breach]

No

Or well, yes 1 of the 2 supercharger points yes

Not another cast of symbols

[wheat elk]

alot of times in my blades duration im using sod again while i still got 1 going on with like 3 4 sec duration

idk if thats wrong

[sly shore]

it's like this basically

sectech will be third finisher in 2nd dance if you used it first in the 1st dance you cast

so you sod after using one finisher

to get supercharger on one of the combo points for sectech

otherwise your CB sectech will be a lil piss boy

[robust igloo]

can I soak solo some mechanics on mug'zee raid boss?
like by cloak or evasion in double whammy shot?

[robust igloo]

ohh, okay thanks

[hazy breach]

For the most part blizzard tends to put in these types of mechanics to prevent them being soaked by one player only

If its intended to be a group soak

Now you can have 5 people immuning it and soaking instead of the entire raid, but not one person

[vagrant fulcrum]

thoughts on 3 dance opener

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/water-spray-stop-sprinkle-water-gif-11895255

[hazy breach]

Idk what that means

[vagrant fulcrum]

as in chaining a dance at the end of flag

[hazy breach]

If you got BL and good procs so you can fit sectech inside that dance sure

But otherwise not worth

[vagrant fulcrum]

bless

[crystal bone]

any1 know why im getting this error?

[acoustic lodge]

No, i got this one from delves

[worn ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-balanced-gif-3226445978144001245

[crystal bone]

never mind

[sly shore]

Does Atrophic still stack

[crystal bone]

i think it did with diminishing returns in dragonflight

idk tho

it was a myth

[urban heron]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hearty moat]

When Exactly do i use house of cards?

With Shadow Blades?

[hazy breach]

Yep macro it to shadow blades

[keen steppe]

is this embelishment so good?

see a lot of high rio rogues play with it

[full wyvern]

focusing lens is our best. you can do ascension if you plan on swapping between sub/sin

[ebon oyster]

embelishments are very weak but this one happens to be the best for sub rogue

[lilac stag]

I just run focusing for all three. Legit don’t matter much like sebek said.

[potent summit]

All 3 ? Can’t u take only 2 embellishments?

Ah all 3 specs

[hazy breach]

He meant all 3 specs

[potent summit]

Nvm

My brain is not working

[celest night]

Is it a known issue that coup de grace could give full combo points via shadowcraft during the animation of coup de grace instead of on press ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[celest night]

any way around the bug ?

[upper narwhal]

Yes it’s known, coup does damage in 3 instances and can proc shadowcraft on any of them

[hazy breach]

Nop, but if youre at 5 sht you can just hold of a bit incase you get a proc and get the refund

Instead of mindlessly spamming strike

[upper narwhal]

I always just glance at sht stacks when I press coup now so I know if it might proc

[hushed roost]

wow im actually surprised seaforium is this good

[keen steppe]

thank you :)

[potent summit]

It has a high uptime that’s why

[ornate lake]

Average Epidemic enjoyer vs God's strongest funnel enjoyer

(I lost)

[potent summit]

What will you guys take with dinars in next patch? I think I will HoC and Ring

[chrome palm]

does tfd always make the 2nd sec tech kinda awkward in your burst?

[void ocean]

define awkward

[chrome palm]

either the very end of the first dance or at the very beginning of the second dance

[quaint lodge]

Eh as long as its in shadow dancea nd symbol'd it shouldnt be too large of an issue

But yea it does happen that way

[void ocean]

sec tech should be one of the 2 finishers after the SoD so it gets supercharged

so I guess not at the end of the first dance

[quaint lodge]

Yea also can just wait for the first dance to finish, you'll still have time to use it inside of your blades and HoC or whatever trinket if ur playing properly

[vocal crypt]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[quasi portal]

Is there a bug with trickster? I seem to have 4 stacks of coup always

and all my evis are coups xd

[lucid jackal]

Swap deathstalker

Swap back trickster

Happens if you have a lot of lag during coup

[quasi portal]

are thos cpus or is it only visual bug ?

coups*

[alpine wraith]

it is a real bug

you can relog or change to ds then back to trickster

i usually alt f4 to make it faster

[quasi portal]

or i can put some of the dpsers in my guild in theri place...

tempting

[fathom gazelle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

You aren’t couping

You’re getting scammed out of it

[sturdy moat]

quick question, during shadow dance do you finish at 5cp or do you ss for 7?

[quasi portal]

so visual bug

[left ledge]

No, very real bug

You literally can’t coup

Until you swap ds and back or relog

It just refuses to become coup

[mint swift]

Posted this in wrong channel

But nutty sub ring

[vocal crypt]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[vestal dove]

ya bro in like 14s and up sub should be bottom dps due to funnel while everyone else pads aoe

depends on the key though

[warm ibex]

theater of pain^

[brazen steppe]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

We backstab in dance even with finality?

because that sims 20k more for me

[hazy breach]

Yes

[steel zinc]

any reason why finality sims so good?

pure st

[hazy breach]

Because its good

More finisher damage from set = more finality value

[steel zinc]

most are still playing rotten I guess most didnt sim really themselfs

[hazy breach]

And they also changed coup so it benefits more from finality

[steel zinc]

Ok so no disadvantage playing it, like more rng or w/e?

[hazy breach]

not really no

[steel zinc]

ok

[lilac stag]

I don’t think a lot of people do talent sims. Depending on gear both can be better. Rotten def has its place in m+. In raid, not so much.

[steel zinc]

yeah in m+ rotten is like 50k ahead

but in raid pure st like lockenstock

might be maybe worth even dropping deeper daggers for double finality

[hazy breach]

Just play finality on every raid boss

[steel zinc]

your playing double?

[hazy breach]

No not double

[steel zinc]

like 2x points in it

[hazy breach]

1 instead of rotten

[steel zinc]

ok

yeah

was just thinking cant sim rn (raidbots down) deeper daggers

[hazy breach]

Its not worth

[steel zinc]

ok

[left ledge]

Oh is finality doing more than rotten rn

[steel zinc]

yeah but I have still transmitter maybe has to do with hoc

[hazy breach]

Yep

[steel zinc]

idk what the gear needs to be to be ahead

[left ledge]

I should swap back

[hazy breach]

Just play finality in raid, the rotten isnt far behind, but the main point of rotten is getting the guaranteed fw for BPs

[steel zinc]

for my alt rogue its rotten and finality like 1k (so w/e) on my main its 22k~

[hot bridge]

question is ColdBlood better or Thistle Tea. i understand CB is a 1 shot over TT consistance in mythic+.

[sturdy moat]

cb is better for sub always

cb + sectech is mandatory and a lot of subs damage

if you manage cds correctly you dont have too much downtime where ur just backstabbing and waiting

[vale pine]

cold blood makes all hits of secret technique crit

it is better because secret does a lot of damage

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bitter verge]

do you wait to line all ur cd's back up in a fight or is it like pop them as they come back up?

[slate marlin]

3k achieved 😄

[warm ibex]

grats

[vale pine]

depends on the fight

[bitter verge]

ah okay

what determines whether you would or wouldn't?

very new

[hazy breach]

You always want to use 2 shadow dances, 2 symbols and 2 secret techniques during flagellation and blades

Outside of that you want to use as many of them as possible, while still making sure you always get 2 of them off

[cunning turret]

!log

[twilit phoenix]

my feelycraft says finality is worse, so I won't be playing it

[paper iron]

remind me to check logs

think i got a double coup somehow

at least my gcd tracking said so

[fathom adder]

which talent points do you take to out into finality? wowhead seems to still have the st build with rotten

[paper iron]

u swap rotten for finality

there are no other options i think

[alpine wraith]

yea rotten to finality

[lost kite]

hey guys noob question but with tricks of trade do i need to refresh it every pull or does it last 1 hr the wording on the ability confuses me

[vale pine]

can change tomorrow but its rly a minor diffrence

its just one point from rotten into finality

[fathom adder]

okay thank you

[final cedar]

Is there a deathstalker build not on wowhead closer to trickster in damage like the pin says? I'm simming an 8-10% difference between trickster and deathstalker

[shell willow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

its gear dependent but you should just be able to use the same talent setup for both

[steel zinc]

rotten out finality in

[hoary lotus]

1 or 2 points

[vale pine]

should be updated on wowhead

but, like this

[slate marlin]

whats teh difference in st?

[hazy breach]

Like +0.2% or so

[random hare]

is this a gain in M+ too

[steel zinc]

no

[slate marlin]

doubt, since u need the rotten to guarantee fw with storm

[steel zinc]

you want to spread with rotten fw

[vale pine]

no

rotten is important to spread find weakness

its literall 0.1-0.2% dps on single target

[random hare]

kk cuh

[vale pine]

but given that it seems to become popular, i guess its better to state as default

[worthy relic]

Is it still a gain if u remove the bs in dance line?

[random hare]

i guess its worth playing that in keys like theater of pain right?

[vale pine]

i am in raid, but can test tomorrow

[random hare]

where theres like

2 packs with 7 mobs or above

or

[vale pine]

possible, diffrence is still very low

[random hare]

okay i guess rotten still wins in that key then

because sub just destroys those 2 packs

and they kinda have to die mega fast

[tepid trellis]

im so bored on OAB

[random hare]

wtf is OAB

[alpine wraith]

one armed bandit

[tepid trellis]

"cleave the adds guys"

me without shadow dance

https://imgur.com/1nUZrGo

[alpine wraith]

STORM STORM

rupture

[lucid jackal]

You send one per reel assistant

[tepid trellis]

the auto dmg goes crazy

frfr

[hazy breach]

Big auto attack energy

[random hare]

do u just stay on boss

[lucid jackal]

Just wait until u get to the first bomb set

[tepid trellis]

we have

i go from 11th

to first xD

[random hare]

xddd

do u have time to send cb on 2nd sectech on bombs

or ddo they die too fast on mythic

[tepid trellis]

nah, boss dmg seems kinda irellevant ngl

[tepid trellis]

with out comp i get full 2x dance into them atm

but id guess later on when people are more comfortable

yes

you would have to time it

not that hard tho

[random hare]

i c

[tepid trellis]

just start your cds at 1:42

[random hare]

okay

[tepid trellis]

or smth like that

[random hare]

ty

[tepid trellis]

just hope you dont get fixated

or you cry a bit

[random hare]

u cant vanish that right

[tepid trellis]

lemme try

ill report back

[random hare]

ok

[tepid trellis]

(someone is getting blown up when it refixates on them)

[lost kite]

hey guys noob question but with tricks of trade do i need to refresh it every pull or does it last 1 hr the wording on the ability confuses me sorry for repost maybe got lost in the convo that was happening

[random hare]

use it once, make sure u damage a mob first for the 1 hour thing to activate then just forget about it unless you or ur tank dies

i think if ur tank dies it should still stay on the tank

re apply just for safety

[exotic solstice]

why do improvised seaforium pacemaker not sim very good ?

[hazy breach]

Its fine

[random hare]

sims good for me

[vale pine]

one rupture for each of these lovely adds

[exotic solstice]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[grizzled bobcat]

Do we have to play around rupture finality once again?

[hazy breach]

nop

[paper iron]

courage stealthi

[still vector]

Is our spec just right where we want it to not warrant any class tuning?

[young mural]

why is wowanalyzer insanely inaccurate for sub?

[tepid trellis]

cuz nobody keeps it up

to date

[young mural]

gotcha

[steel zinc]

if they would not have nerfed us for a stupid prepatch week

[young mural]

ty for answer stealthi

[steel zinc]

but no we are very meh

[still vector]

True

[steel zinc]

like we are good

[still vector]

I mean I like our burst window

[steel zinc]

but also not very good

we are not bad

but also we are not very bad

[still vector]

Yeah it feels atleast for me good

like not too crazy and not too bad

[steel zinc]

our burst it what makes the class fun imo

[still vector]

just if you play it you’ll enjoy it if you don’t play it you wouldn’t switch over.

[tall hatch]

Guys after weapon what u suggest als 2nd craft?

[steel zinc]

but you have to live doing 0 dps without it but your doing some insane dps probably top 3 even top 1 outside of lust

[still vector]

I did cloak because I raided and got my 4pc

if you don’t have 4pc go dagger and boots imo

[steel zinc]

bracers imo since your can catalyst bis cloak

but that depends

[still vector]

true

there’s options

Honestly, I’d wait for your Vault. Then you can determine what you need to craft.

[steel zinc]

not feet you can buy thoose

[tall hatch]

well i dont got 4pc

crafted dagger

[paper iron]

which class are still updating wowanalyser? i feel like it s kinda unupdated / badly updated when i talk to classes

[hot bridge]

outdated not unupdated

[tall hatch]

so boots or wrist :D?

[weary shard]

should i already replace the circlet under this circumstances? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/czFLQQtHWM2HKXrvvVW6si

[hazy breach]

No, you should swap your legendary skipper for windsinger

[hot bridge]

actual silly questiong Supercharge. When you have 2 Supercharges
Should you use when you have 7/7 combo points? or When you have 5/7 combo points?

[young mural]

7/7 for a 9+ combo point finisher

ideally

[hot bridge]

so i have tried this but i wasnt sure if its working as intended

[tall hatch]

may i ask top embelishments for Sub?

i got on weapon focusing lens

[hazy breach]

Focusing lens, but theyre all pissweak so it doesnt really matter

[warm marlin]

ignore and use usual 6+ finisher rule

[weary shard]

so probably need mythic ring before switch?

[hazy breach]

Ye around 670

[tall hatch]

at 643 is the dps ok for m+? last one was a 6 Cinderbrew
I got no tier set nothing and also shitty stats

[leaden prairie]

what you do

is vanish instant

so it looks like you didnt vanihs

and people are ready anyway

[tepid trellis]

yeh i just did that

xD

[copper vapor]

sup

is it fucked up to macro sod & sd on shadow blades

keep them binded on other buttons, but just beause you always want to line them up

idk

is ti even possible

[alpine wraith]

yes it is bad

[copper vapor]

explain pls

[hot bridge]

Symbols of Death and Shadow Dance on Shadow Blades is bad because of Global Coold Down

[hazy breach]

You dont want to use them at the exact same time

Neither of them are on the global cooldown

[tepid trellis]

they are all off the gcd tho xd

[hot bridge]

nvm than

i mean i guess you can macro them and when u use the macro durring a fight and dont need to use Shadow Blades what then?

[pure jay]

!log

[patent crystal]

Think its only 1 sectech into bombs, i cant consistently get 2

[native zodiac]

@tepid trellis can you cleave 2 assistant by standing in the middle or does it not reach

[old kayak]

İn aoe 7+ targets should i send hero talent shadowstrike evis proc or spam blackpowder?

@tepid trellis

[patent crystal]

Make sure u have fazed up, but yes send

[wet jacinth]

!log

[plush roost]

Always coup, its 5 stacks of flawless (+15% dmg)

[frosty nova]

Can anyone explain why "Mega magnet" sims really well with "House of cards" but horrible with "transmitter": https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iDQi7SHRVcnvqZKztBAjS6

[bleak night]

because if you try to jump 3 times with a magnet in your pocket it'll weigh you down

[tepid trellis]

if i told you that nimble is 8 yards

what do you think?

[frosty nova]

😏

[burnt monolith]

see some rogues in bursts used backstab > symbols > ... > sectec > and first builder in symbols is shuriken storm. (storm consumes 2 stacks of rotten).
Isnt it a waste of 1 rotten stack? (better i guess - dance+symbols+backstab > ... > and 2nd bulder in symbols - suriken storm

or it is minor up (use rotten stack on backstab)

[clever delta]

Almost killed sprocket on frist raid night

very cool

[pure jay]

@vale pine should this be updated for best to be alchemical chaos if thats what is listed in the sim?

[hazy breach]

Storm should ideally be the second builder yes

[paper iron]

@tepid trellis didnt follow

vanish works?

🙄

[burnt monolith]

wondering that top (3.2k+ sub rogue) doesnt play around it and just use storm as first builder..

[rustic geyser]

top performer =/= robot perfect actions

[tepid trellis]

yes

[burnt monolith]

i understand , but its just every time (just ignoring bug with rotten)

guess its <1% loss

[paper iron]

good to know, we probably killing spockenshit tomorrow early so i m ready to vanish oab 🦝

[rustic geyser]

could be as simple as muscle memory and/or a lack of giving a fuck about a minimal gain on the fly

could even be "haven't really thought about it"

some peeps are just good

[ebon oyster]

[burnt monolith]

strange. if i would be top 0.1% performer on rogue. i would think about every minmax shit.. dont care about muscle memory/comfy

[rustic geyser]

on the whole that's definitely accurate

but like there's a lot of peeps out there who will analyse tiny things to the nth degree while making mistakes like having 93% uptime

then there's another guy who might use a backstab in the wrong spot, but does everything else flawlessly

[exotic solstice]

maybe he want weakness on all adds before dropping the ST ?

[hazy breach]

Also most people havent started any pushing yet

And/or prefer assa/outlaw

[warm marlin]

you don’t have to be perfect damage minmaxer for doing keys

[paper iron]

prefering assa

[warm marlin]

Pressing the wrong builder for a global >> missing a kick or stop because you focused too hard on damage

[burnt monolith]

btw. why we dont apply FW before sectec ?

[paper iron]

pressing a kick when mage + dh does 99% of the stops

i love m+

[hazy breach]

Most of sectechs damage is shadow

[burnt monolith]

ah ok true

[hazy breach]

So +10% dmg to the initial phys hit doesnt matter that much

[ebon oyster]

is there still some weakaura that counts for me how many targets will get hit by my shuriken

or in general how many targets there are around me

im too stupid to count myself

[hot bridge]

you can still do great dps. just get the kicks in and you can burn them keys fast

[rustic geyser]

I COULD be entirely wrong but I feel like target count is probably just an eyeball test - adding more things on your screen for cognitive overload might be overthinking it before you start

might be a person to person thing I suppose but it feels overboard

[hot bridge]

like what are you really trying to do?

[pure jay]

TIL Mastery flask is a valid flask to use. Chaos/Verse simming at 1.715 for me, mastery sims at 1.728.

[rustic geyser]

massive diff

[frosty nova]

Yea the APL is just broken, Badge suddenly outsims Transmitter by 1.9% using the magnet: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/71KHYwhp7ahSgJ5VCRzLCn

[patent crystal]

does finality buff coup?

[hot bridge]

i wanna say yes cause its just Evis

[pure jay]

w/ raid buffs

[hazy breach]

Just play transmitter anyway. But ye its incredibly wonky with the transmitter apl

[frosty nova]

Yea what I was planning, was just figuring if the trinket should have gone for free trinket upgrades

But it seems very good post buffs 🙂

[rustic geyser]

Just throw the transmitter away and hold your raid to ransom to give you the next HoC or else

[frosty nova]

If only, half the raid still needs it

[rustic geyser]

not like you do

[frosty nova]

Feel like in an awkward spot with the transmitter, it's so minor.

[rustic geyser]

it's not though, unless you are able to use the transmitter like a robot

the freedom of an instant use is probably more of an increase than you might realise off the rip

[frosty nova]

Wdym, you are not supposed to run out of melee range to collect your orb ? 😆

Yea you are right ^^

[rustic geyser]

like on my monk using transmitter is giga free

[frosty nova]

But it's fine, easy vault on wednesday.

[rustic geyser]

but it's really easy for things to go very wrong on the rogue

if your raids rocking an unh dk though you might be in for a fight

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-patrick-fight-spongebob-fight-gif-17721615

also honestly idk about you guys, maybe I'm just getting old and shit but like the fucking visual clutter in UM makes the transmitter so much harder to use than in bug palace

[tepid trellis]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[frosty nova]

There is some logic to it, always going front right, but you still often end up in narnia because the hitbox is so small

[ebon oyster]

its actually in there

holy

nice

[rustic geyser]

jump in on One armed
use trinket
oh shit coin buff
where's the orb?
it's in the wall
fuck

[brisk onyx]

[restive canopy]

hi friends

which embellishment should i use?

i looked in pinned but just says lens idk if thats for everything

[hot bridge]

mastery/vers

[hazy breach]

yes

You can use anything else if you want, theyre all pissweak and have practically no impact on your performance

[rustic geyser]

yeah I opted for just using lens on all 3 specs instead of ever worrying

they're all fighting tooth and nail against eachother for .01% difference anyway

[karmic egret]

where do you stick tempered potion in your rotation since it takes you out of stealth? Before the first evic or sectech?

[tepid trellis]

when i press dance usually

[pure jay]

do we want to use the empowered CPs for sectech every time?

or will CD's line up where it's 2x evis?

[twilit phoenix]

Yeah you want one of your supercharged points to always hit sectech

[viral girder]

The fact that im only 622 and im out dpsing people that are 20-30 item levels higher than me is... kinda pathetic....

[tepid trellis]

always supercharge sectech

[viral girder]

Like I know i was heroic geared from s1.. but im 20-30 item levels lower than them. And I gurentee im not using transmitter remotely effeciently

[paper iron]

Stealthi i realised tonight

[twilit phoenix]

You like boys?

[paper iron]

why devoker has more burst than us?

from spockenshit, their single target damage during BL is something next level

[bleak night]

i mean dev pressing dragonrage and instantly dying to aggro has been a meme since they came out

though idk about st i havent seen one in so long

[pure jay]

will it 100% always line up that one of the supercharged CP's can hit a sectech?

[twilit phoenix]

It’s your job to make sure it lines up

Usually, don’t press symbols in dance until sectech has 10 secs left on cd

[paper iron]

i mean yea it s bl and all i understand, during bl he s at 4,535,220, i m at 3,936,626.

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/bookio-gif-13932157847762104386

i hate sub

but makes sense

[paper iron]

And the worst is that, u know how sub goes, i just do healer dps afterward, he stays that up

[rustic geyser]

imagine if we still had shadowdust

[bleak night]

dev is pumping

and they got tier buffs

so uh

gg i guess

[paper iron]

yea i legit dont understand it, but fun fact, even them dont understand it

[bleak night]

blizzard trying to distract all the aug players by making the other stinky lizard spec op

[rustic geyser]

oh wow I read that wrong
I read "dev is pumping" as in like our dev is doing something

and I was like the fuck you on?

[pure jay]

i just want to push buttons and pump

so much thinking/amanging everything

[paper iron]

My theory is that blizzard head balance asked his team to buff aug, and the intern missunderstood and buffed aug

i cant see it otherwise

[rustic geyser]

Have we heard anything from our (rogue) dev team/person recently at all?

I feel like it's been pretty radio silent lately

[paper iron]

I dont think we did since realz is gone

[rustic geyser]

did we just get too toxic and they're all avoid contact at all costs or what?

[bleak night]

A while ago he reacted to a gif of whispyr shotgunning a monster

He’s still here he just doesn’t talk to us

For pretty good reason if you ever look in outlaw chat lmao

[pure jay]

are there any DPS classes in the game that are brain dead these days or to be able to output the potential they all take a ton of management now?

[paper iron]

well every class havesome minmaxing

but bm

i would say

[bleak night]

There are definitely still plenty of easy dps specs

[tepid trellis]

their cds lasts like all of Bl

[pure jay]

im probably overcomplicating it and just demoralized but seems like rogue takes a lot to be "above average" now

[tepid trellis]

so its not a fair comparison

[pure jay]

im getting too old QQ

[bleak night]

Bm, ret, sin, boomkin, dev all have a pretty low skill floor

[paper iron]

imma pull up the rotation for bm

[pure jay]

jpc was right

[paper iron]

be ready

[bleak night]

Obviously they all have optimizations and you can push to be better than average

But can get into them easily

[paper iron]

there u go

[pure jay]

yea, my sin was doing better in the end of nerub, though queen was always horrible

[paper iron]

just read it once, twice if you re a zoomer, and you good to play it max potential

[fiery iron]

anyone know what the site is called that shows top logs and when they used their abilites in a raid fight?

ty

[tepid trellis]

lorrgs.io

[paper iron]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/mugzee-heads-of-security?difficulty=heroic

actually the link here so it s easier

[fiery iron]

❤️

[vernal garnet]

is assa going to be better in keys where sub was better now

[paper iron]

imo nah, current high end keys i'd say sub top / workshop, assa on the others. That was already that before

[pure jay]

i hate sub in keys personally

[paper iron]

i emphasis : high end current keys

[pure jay]

but im trash

[lilac stag]

It’s just s1 with more mutilate dmg

[paper iron]

and

[lilac stag]

both are perfectly fine

[paper iron]

it s already the case anyway

[vernal garnet]

i havent played rogue this season but did last season, i usually play at title range, do you think if i only play sub id be at a big disadvantage?

[vocal lantern]

I dont think there is enough difference between the two to warrant a spec change now

For m+ at least^^

[paper iron]

well it s the same disadvantage as every season

you can get title with any rogue spec

[pure jay]

idk how to manage sub CD's in a m+

[vernal garnet]

true i just wasnt sure if id be doing piss damage in something like meadery as sub

[paper iron]

but since you re a rogue, lfg life can be harsh, didnt change and wont change for a while

[steel zinc]

jpc is playing again

but dk

[lilac stag]

waiting for the outlaw crew to ascend next couple of weeks

[paper iron]

Nah u gonna do fine in damage

[lucid jackal]

U just press them

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/no-no-no-no-no-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-gif-3746287728568117387

[lucid jackal]

and then stop pressing them at 30 or less seconds

thats how u manage sub cds

[vernal garnet]

jpc said hes gonna gear his rogue

[paper iron]

yea for raid mostly he said in here

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-good-gewd-star-wars-episode-3-gif-15386400457909814305

[vocal lantern]

If you are pugging I guess you could go Sub for easier access to invites because ppls neurons activate when they see a spec thats on wowheads S tier list

[lilac stag]

They need someone on rogue for splits.

[paper iron]

^

[vernal garnet]

thats just what he says for now

[pure jay]

need jpc to stream again

and someone to coach me

QQ

[lilac stag]

Guy will coach you

[pure jay]

who is guy

[paper iron]

a cool guy

[pure jay]

cool guys are pretty cool

[lilac stag]

The green dude with coaching in his profile

Or ask kush for coaching. I think he was still offering

Could be mistaken

[slate marlin]

any way to start a key with tier stacked?

[rustic geyser]

I remember when cool guy used to be angry guy all the time

reviewing peoples outlaw logs and shit

[tepid trellis]

its easy to make him mad

[paper iron]

oh yea ez to make him mad

[rustic geyser]

I think it's just sub, it's like a guy xanax

[twilit phoenix]

Guy doesn’t play outlaw anymore

He just farms rep and raid logs as sub

[pure jay]

whats his rogues name

[twilit phoenix]

Boyloverx

[rustic geyser]

the real deal

[lucid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

[twilit phoenix]

Lmao it’s real hahaha

[rustic geyser]

oh fuck wait, I think I know that guy

[twilit phoenix]

Guy is Foreverguy

On malganis in GN (they have banger raid sales)

[pure jay]

who wants coaching from someone not in mythic /s

[paper iron]

This tbh

[tepid trellis]

tru dont trust a guy stuck in one armed bandit jail

[rustic geyser]

hahahaha

[pure jay]

i've been thinking about hitting up casualaddict for some, dudes obviously a beast but feels weird going after raid insight when no logs

[tepid trellis]

dont trust the gamblers

[pure jay]

i have 0 room to talk being bottom of the barrel of rogues currently

[rustic geyser]

casual is another one of these problematically good players

like

fuck off man

[pure jay]

hm?

[rustic geyser]

leave us some clout

[pure jay]

ahh

[rustic geyser]

lol

[pure jay]

need more raiders like whispyr

less m+ pushers

[paper iron]

but stealthi

my mentor used to always say

we love gamba

[rustic geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/gamba-gif-25945486

[pure jay]

i cant trust anyone anymore

the flask instructions broke me

[rustic geyser]

use A flask

done

[pure jay]

but mastery so much strongerrr

then the 2 recommendedddd

https://tenor.com/view/pouting-pout-gif-5964968

[rustic geyser]

bruh this isn't classic

we're aloud to relax a bit

I might make a random flask macro

[pure jay]

i was #1 alliance rogue in classic fresh for mc 😦

[rustic geyser]

and just like roll the dice on getting a haste one

[paper iron]

do u know there is a weakaura or something

[pure jay]

then I blue screened during our bwl push

[paper iron]

that send pi to a random person

[rustic geyser]

imagine seeing some insane sub log
and realising that they were rocking a haste flask and getting pi

you'd be so confused

[paper iron]

then u see them wearing noggenfogger

[rustic geyser]

HAHAHAHA

[paper iron]

well, it s not reattribued to rogue anymore, but a week earlier

that would ve done the trick

[rustic geyser]

peeps suddenly flooding the channel like OMG FUU FUU!

[shrewd shadow]

whats everyone else's dungeon slice looking like? still missing a few BiS https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kUiMABStFRzE3seT4BxADU

[spice matrix]

Dragon

[hoary lotus]

What the fuck

Is that

[shrewd shadow]

[shrewd shadow]

passive 2.5% mastery

[paper iron]

i m switching rn.

[pure jay]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hD6FU2atBs9jGDYHZadePC

[paper iron]

no need to say more.

[pure jay]

wtf indeed

[paper iron]

lemme check mine

[bleak night]

why we simming dungeon slice with full raid buffs

[paper iron]

oh

all raid buffs

[pure jay]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eWyHF6NSnKvGbm6jLjPvA7 full raid buffs

if only I could execute correctly

[paper iron]

imma do the same

[shrewd shadow]

lmfao didnt notice id assume it would auto turn it off

[pure jay]

is there a WA for "PREPOP SYMBOLS"? lol

[paper iron]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/inGkPCSuZxz4M6JGW2sTBv

get rolled

😎

[pure jay]

662?!

[bleak night]

based

[rustic geyser]

seaforium is FATTY in dslice

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rickroll-roll-rick-never-gonna-give-you-up-never-gonna-gif-22954713

[shrewd shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/mcdonnells-curry-sauce-foil-arms-and-hog-grass-gif-20592252

[lilac stag]

Isn’t everyone?

[shrewd shadow]

i also dont have transmit or house of cards

[shrewd shadow]

lost HoC 5 times so far

[rustic geyser]

I'm 661 😢

[paper iron]

662 is nothing, i ve played with a 667 mage

well

8/8m

[lilac stag]

Get the pvp badge

No excuses

[shrewd shadow]

what one?

[lilac stag]

it’s on bloodmallet

[rustic geyser]

prized gladiators something

[lilac stag]

700 conquest

[rustic geyser]

is 700 conq a lot if you're shit at pvp?

[bleak night]

nah

you can look for a crate farming group in lfg

and just zerg around the map doing nothing

[shrewd shadow]

badge of ferocity? can you get it hero track?

[bleak night]

champ

[shrewd shadow]

damn

[bleak night]

but 658 badge is quite good

[pure jay]

none of the pvp gear looked good

[bleak night]

i mean its not bis or anything

but if you dont have hoc/transmitter its your next best option

[pure jay]

my droptimizer didnt show anything standout

[rustic geyser]

one could argue it's better than transmitter coz... no minigame

[bleak night]

did you droptimizer pvp?

[rustic geyser]

that's kinda wrong

[pure jay]

yes

[bleak night]

thats kind of based

[rustic geyser]

but kinda true

[shrewd shadow]

i mean vs seaforium pacemaker and resonating heart both hero track

is the pvp really better?

[rustic geyser]

pacemaker is a gucci trinket, especially in keys

[bleak night]

i mean answer is always sim it

[shrewd shadow]

i mean obvi sim it but if i dont gotta waste time on pvp lol

[rustic geyser]

but stacking a stat steroid with your blades is ALWAYS big

like big big

[lucid jackal]

gulp

[swift tinsel]

Azerokk is troll and doesn't proc in cd's often

[rustic geyser]

how hard did you farm for the gentleman overcoat?

[lucid jackal]

took like 8 hours in total

8 or 9

[rustic geyser]

fuck, man we really need a solid fedora mog

that would be so king right now

[rustic geyser]

stick a "nothing personal kid" on your shadowstep

perfection achieved

as soon as I get that trenchcoat my monks going male human for the neo mog

[lost kite]

i looked and couldnt find this group

[bleak night]

i didnt guarantee you'd find one

sometimes people arent doing them

[lost kite]

litterally spent 3hrs today and gained 0 conquest

crazy

[bleak night]

thats kind of impressive

[rustic geyser]

how much conq for a crate?

maybe I just need to scooby doo an actual pvper

[vocal crypt]

Is it worth to rupture as many mobs as possible in m+ ?

[rustic geyser]

ah shit, subtlety rupture convo inc... I'm out

[lucid jackal]

outside of cds

[lucid jackal]

Just pvp

It takes like 30 minutes of pvp to get 1k conquest

[rustic geyser]

wait on, is that 30 minutes of COMPETENT pvp?

[lost kite]

i dont believe that

[lucid jackal]

U can not believe me if u want

[vocal crypt]

i mean when you go in a bigpull and have everything up. Rupture or just blast with cds instant ?

[lucid jackal]

If u can do ur pve rotation and press kidney

[pure jay]

that pvp trinket suckkksss

[lucid jackal]

U can get 1k conquest just queuing 2s

[bleak night]

i mean yeah 2% behind transmitter sounds about right

did you miss the part where i said if you dont have transmitter or hoc

[lucid jackal]

Waste of time to rutpure

[pure jay]

4.8%?

[lucid jackal]

do it while hes gathering if u want

[bleak night]

ah i looked at the wrong one

[vocal crypt]

kk ty

[bleak night]

mythic transmitter?

and again

[pure jay]

ye

[bleak night]

if you dont have transmitter or hoc

[crystal kraken]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal kraken]

^is this including the recent changes or not yet?

[pure jay]

it has outlaws broken trinket in it lol

[hazy breach]

Do one sim without pacemaker as your passive

It screws over non-transmitter on-uses in the sim

They changed it to not do that but it apparently doesnt work still

[steel zinc]

best value for cp and energy damage wise

[tame flint]

Why is sub better for ws and top over sin?

[hazy breach]

Think of it this way. You do no damage outside of cds right

So using a finisher outside cds, that will last and do damage while you are in cds is good

Compared to doing a finisher thats strictly outside cds

[brazen meadow]

is the pvp trinket the insignia? i'm not seeing anything for "patch"

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Badge, not patch

[torn shell]

talk me out of a castsequence macro for burst (separate bind)

[haughty mural]

Don’t do it

[rustic geyser]

i concur, don't do it

[tepid trellis]

if you do it, everytime you put on socks from now on they will be wet

[paper iron]

u can sd symbol bs sectech, that s about it, i m not even sure it would work

[ripe flame]

does anyone know how we are supposed to use the stix magnet trinket? just use it on cd?

[paper iron]

getting a full new bind for 2 gcd, sounds like the idea of the year

[young mural]

looking gooood

[keen steppe]

+12 ToP closest key of my life x)

Sub feels good in top

[young mural]

nobody will ever find a actual flaw, because it'll be literally the optimal opener. Problem about that is you'll not be able to adapt to a bunch of situations, and you'll be stuck being a very average sub rogue not having the skill and practice to do a opener/burst sequence

[hazy breach]

Except you cant account for different Sht and shadowcraft procs

[young mural]

example: reacting to shadowcraft procs

[hazy breach]

With a cast sequence

[young mural]

exactly

just a bad idea

[forest furnace]

i grabbed the pvp trinket to try out and was wondering if theres a best way to sim x2 on use for m+

[pure jay]

im starting to feel like fuu's sub guide weighs verse too high compared to mastery and I feel baited

[lucid jackal]

OAB fatty

[lucid jackal]

What?

[hazy breach]

Hacha type shit comment (non-derogatory)

Big bonks are fun

[pure jay]

overall bis gear showing heavy verse items, but in practice seems heavy mastery pieces are better

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/box-of-shame-box-shame-gif-5716656840447945106

[hazy breach]

Bis lists are a complete meme anyway

[pure jay]

picking the two m+ items from the list makes me feel like a clown 😦 my own fault for blindly following

whoops, thats my sin gear

[hazy breach]

What

[lilac stag]

your vers/mas stats aren't nearly as important as you seem to think they are

[pure jay]

these two items being listed overall bis feels wrong, but maybe its because i dont have the other pieces yet. idk

[pure jay]

mastery flask is about 100k dps

[paper iron]

damn guy

[hazy breach]

Its absolutely not 100k dps over the other flasks

[paper iron]

when i see that i really hope we ez kill locken tomorrow i wanna do aoe bonks

[pure jay]

sorry, closer to 20k or something, my fault

[pure jay]

its significantly better but you're right

[lilac stag]

maybe in a 30 second 12 target lust sim

[hazy breach]

You dont have an on-use trinket

You should get one

[pure jay]

that was my sin gear

sub gear

[paper iron]

#tc-research message

[lilac stag]

you should get a better on use trinket

[paper iron]

if u wanna sims consummables btw

[pure jay]

ill try that

[lilac stag]

almost like getting all that mastery from HoC makes Versa more imortant

[lucid jackal]

Bis lists are bis

Like Literally EVERY PIECE OF GEAR

is ideal

Do you have BIS?

[lilac stag]

but yea Fuu's list is shit and he's just out to fuck you

[lucid jackal]

DO you have mythic house of cards

do you have mythic weapon

do you have full mythic tier

[pure jay]

yes

[lucid jackal]

You have all of these?

[pure jay]

i didnt reply to all of them

[lilac stag]

DO you have mythic house of cards

[hazy breach]

Also theres a dozen of other combinations that sim exactly the same as the bis items listed in the lists

[lilac stag]

that's the only one that matters

[shrewd shadow]

See that’s what I hate about our bis list…some of it makes no fucking sense

[lucid jackal]

ITs not "Our bis list"

Bis lists are inherently bad

And not useful

[pure jay]

like.. even droptimizer doesn't really show mastery heavy pieces being better then what I have

[lucid jackal]

Awesome

[pure jay]

but in practice seems like it would idk im trash

sorry

[lucid jackal]

Ur good

[lilac stag]

feels go a long way to maxing dps

fuk forgot sarcasm tage

[pure jay]

im grey parsing in mythic raid and disappointed in myself

[pure jay]

TIL Bubble wax is good again

[lilac stag]

use !log and lets see what you're fucking up

[pure jay]

i have

[lilac stag]

did you fix it?

[pure jay]

a couple rogues gave some advice after the 3rd attempt

time will tell

[lilac stag]

or just play assa. some people just dont click with sub's style

maybe that be you? idk