subtlety

[lucid jackal]

and thats whats up

[grizzled bobcat]

Heya boys, i just got this, should i use it on cd or use it at 30 stacks?

[alpine wraith]

you can use your head

[twilit phoenix]

this just dropped, is it any good for sub?

[alpine wraith]

or just press it anytime apart from where you are about to use cds

[gritty zenith]

what should my symbols of death uptime ?

is 49% good?

[vale pine]

good for everyone if you do mythic bosses

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[twilit phoenix]

yeah my myth track kezan is better than my 639 trinket, was wondering if it's sim bait

[vale pine]

55-60%

kezan is rly good on longer figths

[twilit phoenix]

i'm mostly memeing with the myth track

but next week dungeon event

would be kinda pog to get a hero track one from the box

either that or a heroic jastor diamond would be sweet

[signal heath]

Is there a website or file where it breaks down each raid boss in terms of playing it as sub? I remember seeing things like that in past. Haven’t seen any recently

[ebon oyster]

https://lorrgs.io/

you mean this probably

[mystic ether]

Is anyone else having trouble with the TTS of the transmitter WeakAura? It's talking german for me

Don't laugh it's annoying

[full wyvern]

Brush up on that Duolingo

[lilac stag]

It’s saying delete it and use pvp badge

[mystic ether]

It's not actually speaking German, just saying everything as a German person not knowing english would pronounce it. Like ready the text as if it was written in German

I live in Germany, which might explain it

[alpine wraith]

you can change the language of the TTS

[mystic ether]

Where?

[alpine wraith]

depends on the WA

should be somewhere on options

[mystic ether]

Can't figure out where it is sadly

I'm using this one : https://wago.io/jX4s-GYvb

[alpine wraith]

Go to WoW Options > Accessibility > Text To Speech > Configure Text to Speech

the aura tells you i think

think language is there too

[mighty citrus]

team it sounds dumb but i have problems to get always 8 gcds in my dances. any tips how i could improve that? i press buttons as fast as i can, but still sometimes only 7

[mystic ether]

It's set to English (US)

[alpine wraith]

no idea then

[mystic ether]

Thanks anyway

[alpine wraith]

maybe check your computer TTS

[tall hatch]

Hey guys
i decided to start playing sub this Season
where should i start?
talents builds?
wowhead ? or some websites like murlock.io etc

[alpine wraith]

you can check guides yea

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[mighty citrus]

you consider this too high?

[vale pine]

lag tolerance is best set to ~200-250 or set untouched, there is no negative side effect to it

[tepid trellis]

99.9% of the time it has absolutely nothing to do with SQW

you are mostlikely just activating shadow dance mid global

[mighty citrus]

yes this is one of my things iam doing

but even if i wait full global, i sometimes only make 7

[warm ibex]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[keen trellis]

Hello, when playing 2 on-use trinkets, when do we use the 2nd trinket (cards during flag I guess)? Just on CD?

[lilac stag]

HoC is always the priority

Use it with blades

[keen trellis]

Guessed so, and the 2nd on-use trinket during dance windows? or does dance actually increase their damage?

[hazy breach]

it does not

[tall hatch]

Any1 mind telling me how does Supercharger works?

[hazy breach]

next 2 finishers do more damage after pressing symbols

[tall hatch]

but we should get full CP?

or just use with less?

[hazy breach]

same as always

[tall hatch]

6+ right?

[vocal crypt]

do you think outlaw is the easiest rogue spec for m+ ? Or Assa ?

[lucid jackal]

probs sub

[tall hatch]

i played s1 Assa
Was pretty hard at start but i got used to it
Now im trying to learn Sub hopefully wont take till 11.5 😄

[burnt panther]

hi In a pack of +12 mobs it is shadow strike + Black Powder ////// Shuriken Storm + Black Powder?

[raven fiber]

Question! I just recently started learning sub and was using hekili to help learn. Noticed it never recommends using BP, even with 7+ targets. Anyone else find this issue or is hekili jsut not great for sub?

[dim hazel]

dont play sub but iirc. Hekeli is assuming like 5 or something targets.

its an okay place to start but the finer details youll have to learn when to use the right abil

[raven fiber]

Yea I find my ST fine but when there's massive AOE I fall off

[dense lichen]

I don’t use Hekeli but I wouldn’t recommend it for sub either way. Rotationally, outside of the opener, the spec isn’t that complex, the difficulty comes almost entirely from cooldown management, which I don’t think Hekeli is all that good for

[raven maple]

Is there somewhere that does log reviews for mythic keys? My ST is decent but I trail really hard on AOE despite being similar Ilvl and I cant pin point why

[honest isle]

What is the argument for crafting boots over eg. gloves as suggested by wowhead?

[wicked urchin]

there isn't one

that's just what ends up being best if you have everything else

craft your biggest upgrade/whichever slot you're least likely to see an upgrade in soon

i did weapon -> neck

doing gloves next

[honest isle]

That logic is sensible and why I expect Dagger is recommended as first craft, but I find it hard to see any situations where crafting boots is better than gloves second. At least not common enough for it to be the recommendation

[hazy breach]

If it sims higher

[wicked urchin]

the wowhead bis is just what sims best

but unless you have the whole gear set your secondary itemization will be completely different

thats why you just sim it yourself

[dense lichen]

The difference between taking crafted boots or gloves is not gonna be big enough that you shouldn’t do the gloves if u really want to. My third craft after weapon and boots is gonna be eng wrist solely so I can stop wasting gold on health pots

[honest isle]

While I understand that reasoning, a recommendation for second craft is given on wowhead. Following the same logic as the first craft recommendation, I struggle to see how you end up at boots second.

[hazy breach]

Because unless you buy the boe boots

all the boots available suck

[honest isle]

Delve boots are Mastery>Vers

and you have access to Myth track boots way sooner than Myth track Gloves in raid (not counting tire gloves)

[hazy breach]

Ye but those are a. incredibly rare, b. not feasible to get higher than champ

[honest isle]

As rare as any other delve item and you can get very lucky and obtain Hero track

[karmic hull]

Brother craft whatever tf u wanna craft

[hazy breach]

Ye theyre very rare

[fallow nimbus]

Crafted vers/mastery neck and lockenstock boots aren't that bad anymore

[hazy breach]

gloves doesnt have more stats than boots

so its just whatever you have the worst of, which is 9/10 times going to be boots

(because wowhead guides excludes boes)

[lilac pendant]

Does Sigil of Algari Concordance oversimms?

[rancid axle]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest isle]

assuming you craft 2nd item before killing MugZee Mythic
you'd have potential access to 0 Myth track gloves besides tier and either catalyst Vers>Haste or Sprocket Crit>Mast Boots

even without considering boes, wouldn't gloves be better more often than boots?

[hazy breach]

If you have mythic sprocket boots then you wouldnt craft boots

[shy ermine]

i took mast crit m+ gloves this vault because of that

only other good myth gloves are from 2nd last boss

[honest isle]

Hence why I think gloves is a better baseline craft than boots

[hazy breach]

Yes but most people dont have mythic sprocket boots

[clever delta]

mythic tier hands pretty easy

[astral minnow]

neck sim the best for me, so I'll make a neck

[west tide]

guys i just remembered how fun da law is so now i might craft a law weapon next

[clever delta]

you will play ass anyway

[west tide]

in the morning i said hello no

but right now im like hmm

[hazy breach]

Like, just craft whatever is your weakest slot

its that simple

[fallow nimbus]

Don't commit sin

[meager coyote]

I'm seeing crit embelishments on the dungeon slice sim O_O

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest isle]

I understand the recommendation, I'm disagreeing with how you arrive at boots baseline
Surely Myth Catalyst boots + crafted gloves is better than crafted boots and Hero tack gloves

[karmic hull]

Bro is just trying to argue omg

[hazy breach]

You could just not take the boots

Let others have it

[west tide]

i crafted boots it was huge

[hazy breach]

By that logic why even craft a weapon

just loot 2 daggers from rik

[west tide]

and now my boys get to have mythic boots

biggest uppies all around

[honest isle]

Boots is from first boss, I'm not saying to take the first drop, but most ppl will likely kill that boss a decent few times before they get to mugzee

[hazy breach]

Ye and they have haste so theyre not good

[half comet]

whats the best way to get a map now that u cant buy scrambler? (besides with 2k undercoin)

idk if theres a strat

[honest isle]

yea catalyst is not ideal stats, but very heavy vers

[hazy breach]

You do you

[honest isle]

but the only myth gloves you reliably have access to is even worse stats Haste>Crit

It appears as if recommendation 1 assumes access to nothing and recommendation 2 assumes access to MugZee gloves or good M+ gloves from vault

[hazy breach]

No'

It goes by whats usually the best upgrade

[dim trail]

Hi all, question, it is good put a stance backstab macro as a main shadow dance macro?

[honest isle]

fair enough, I just find that difficult to believe that it is indeed usually the best, given the arguments above

[west tide]

its just assuming a lot in ur argument ie boots drop and u get it within first few kills, whereas its gonna be good stats for someone else and a higher upgrade better on them

imo much better to craft boots but u do u man

[hazy breach]

It also assumes that doing the extra damage from crafting something that sims higher isnt relevant on a progress boss

Which is also a bit silly

But whatever floats your boat

Either way just craft the other one next week if thats the case

who cares, sparks are fairly abundant

[dim trail]

Do you reccomend Naowh rogue wa pack?

[honest isle]

My problem is not with the act of crafting something which is a local optimum for a specific character in a specific week, ofc whatever sims best is useful for prog. There are situations where boots is optimal. I'm only talking about the recommended baseline craft

I asked cause it seemed illogical to recommend and I assumed perhaps I was missing something, either way thanks for the discussion

[half comet]

is backstab with premed a gain in M+

[tribal blade]

yes

[mystic ether]

Why do sims tell me that 665 HoC is a downgrade for me? (I'm running Eye nm and Transmitter 639)

[hazy breach]

Because its barely better than transmitter

esp if you have a heavy mastery profile

[alpine wraith]

yea gear depends on transmitter vs house of cards

if house is not huge ilvl

[mystic ether]

That's actually sad

[potent summit]

No mini game = dps increase don’t believe blind sims

[hazy breach]

^

[tribal blade]

it's actually so nice not doing transmitter

it makes the opener WAY less stressful

you can position anywhere you want

[potent summit]

Yes. Sim is just a tool to tell you which direction to go. But gameplay decides if it’s worth to kill urself or waste time jumping

😂

[trim acorn]

guys do you use dbm?

[alpine wraith]

yea i changed to badge

[shrewd shadow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[limber wadi]

fairly new sub rogue....is the spec not good in low keys

[shrewd shadow]

its fine, just stuff doesnt live long enough to really get steam built up

[dense lichen]

Just got my 4pc yesterday. How much are we playing around the tier set stacks, or not at all?

[shrewd shadow]

best to ignore it ive found

[hazy breach]

Generally not at all. Like in keys you might want to hold of on using that last eviscerate when theres one mob left at like5%

so you dont lose it before the next big pack with cds, but in raids you just send and hope you dont hit the 15%

[stiff kiln]

is trinket buffs live or next week ?

[maiden oar]

is it good to try and only flag when you can dance back to back with 4pc

[alpine wraith]

live

only thing not live are class buffs

[maiden oar]

or if you need to farm cdr with 1 or 2 undanced finishers in flag is it not that bad

[alpine wraith]

you should have enough dances to flag when it is off cd

[hazy breach]

You should always have back to back dances in flag

[alpine wraith]

otherwise you dun goofed

somewhere

[maiden oar]

oh i mean you get 2 dances 2 sectechs 2nd sectech under 15s trinket still

but you have to evisc out of dance like once for 2nd dance to come back

[hazy breach]

No

[maiden oar]

do you just hold flag instead?

[hazy breach]

you dont have to

You dance immediately once your first dance ends

Has nothing to do with tier

[maiden oar]

yeah im saying if the 2nd dance cooldown isnt back yet

without spending outside of dance for dance cdr

in that case do you hold flag so you can dance right after the first dance without the gap

maybe im explaining what i mean poorly - like theres a situation where flag is off cd and you have 1 dance charge and 37s until next dance and 1 symbols charge and 10s til next symbols

if you immediately flag and pop dance you will sometimes end first dance and there will be 4 seconds remaining on 2nd dance

[tepid trellis]

then ya done fucked up

[maiden oar]

ok

in that situation do you hold flag

is what im asking

or do you do a few spenders in flag to stack it up like you would if you were aoe spreading ruptures

and then dance back to back instead of holding flag?

[hazy breach]

depends on if you end up fucking yourself over with timings for the next one

[maiden oar]

i see

ive been doing 2x dance opener -> 2 x dance in between -> 2x dance 1m30s -> 1x dance in between -> 2x dance 3m -> 2x dance in between -> 2x dance 4m30s -> 1x dance in between etc but sometimes theres a 1 spender gap in flag

is that sequence not loopable

[hazy breach]

Like on some bosses theres something happening at say 3:25, so you need to be done with your 3 minute cds by then, so delaying the 1:30 one for 15s would screw you over

[maiden oar]

yea

[jaunty heath]

Yo I have a question for super long fights - it’s Cds - 2 - CDs - 1 - CDs - 2 - CDs - 0 - CDs

Numbers being dances

Idk if I’ll ever need it but

[hazy breach]

rotates between 2 and 1, no 0

[jaunty heath]

After a certain amount of fight length there’s a time you can’t dance between cds right?

Oh okay

[hazy breach]

unless downtime n stuff ig

[jaunty heath]

I thought there was something with omega long fights

(Don’t ask why I’m asking there’s no fight that goes that long without hard enraging)

Im in bed and i have stuff going through my mind

[maiden oar]

is it ever 2 -> 1 -> 1 -> 2 or is it always 2 -> 1 -> 2 -> 1

assuming full uptime

[jaunty heath]

Nah there’s no 2 1 1 with no downtime

Idk where I got the 0 from

But if there’s no zero it’s always alternating

[maiden oar]

oh maybe the issue is im doing it on a dummy with no skyfury

[jaunty heath]

Yes

Certainly

[maiden oar]

and thats why i have the gap

[jaunty heath]

Sub without skyfury is tortur

Torture*

[maiden oar]

bc i dont notice it in content

but when dummy practicing its weird

[gleaming locust]

whats a good overall in a key? Averaging around 2.5-2.7m but cant seem to break 3m

[past geyser]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[past geyser]

Hello!! Any próx of subtlety % stats

[hazy breach]

dont get haste

Boom there you go

[past geyser]

Hahahaahaha

How much of versa AND mastery AND crit

Then

Lol

🤣🤣

[hazy breach]

doesnt matter

[lucid jackal]

a bunch

[past geyser]

Doesn't matter with subtlety

?

[hazy breach]

Doesnt matter for the vast majority of specs in the game

[past geyser]

Bro can u help me or you will troll

😒

🤣🤣

[hazy breach]

?

[hushed roost]

🤣 🤣

😒

[jaunty heath]

Theres no Troll here

You drop item you sim it

If upgrade equip

If it’s big haste don’t bother simming

That’s it

[hazy breach]

You dont care about your stat percentages, the only time it matters is if youre playing a spec with some sort of cap on a stat like outlaw with haste or frostmage with crit

[burnt panther]

hi In a pack of +12 mobs it is shadow strike + Black Powder ////// Shuriken Storm + Black Powder?

[hazy breach]

But even then the sim will do a better job of mathing that out thsn you will

[jaunty heath]

Shadow strike secret tech storm black powder -> into strike black powder perma

[spark tusk]

He did help you. The only thing you'd act on with that information is what gems/enchants/gear you go for.

and the answer is, you could literally get random amounts of mastery/vers/crit and you'll be fine. It doesn't matter. Just get higher ilvl pieces, avoiding haste. For two pieces with the same ilvl, the one without haste. If neither have haste, use the sim like everyone else to decide or just don't think about it and pick the one that you had first

[jaunty heath]

This is in dance

Outside of dance storm black powder

[maiden oar]

do you not spend every 2nd rotten on storm?

[jaunty heath]

Well

[maiden oar]

ive been doing that but idk if correct

[jaunty heath]

This is per dance

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[jaunty heath]

And you would only do that if

FW is not on the targets

[maiden oar]

like in flag do i do it again with 2nd symbols

usually its on some bc of strike but not all

so idk what the call is

[jaunty heath]

If FW is on the targets no, if it isn’t yes

[maiden oar]

[jaunty heath]

Well storm with rotten guarantees on all targets

[maiden oar]

dunno if 1 random priory footman without fw means its worth or not if everyone else has it

yeah

[jaunty heath]

Good question probably not

Strike dam is huge

And 1 target on 12+ not having FW is prob not worth the storm

But I may be wrong here

[maiden oar]

ah ok

idk either so ive just been storming every 2nd rotten

but no clue if thats wise

[jaunty heath]

Not gonna make or break your dam I guess

Having FW on for BP is huge so might aswell

But also there’s not that many pulls where you BP I feel like

At least not in pugs

[maiden oar]

im just doing 10s and not pushing rn but i feel like tanks are braver recently

[jaunty heath]

I mean yeah gear is coming in

[maiden oar]

i press bp way more now

[jaunty heath]

Idk there’s so many shitter mobs that i don’t care about killing

That I end up not pressing bp

Not good for overall

[maiden oar]

yea i just wanna know whats optimal so i can practice and learn

[jaunty heath]

But probably speeds up the key to kill important mob

[maiden oar]

and build muscle memory

so im strong when it matters

even if im doing silly weekly keys

[jaunty heath]

Hey you might start enjoying it and end up doing higher keys

[maiden oar]

i plan to

[stiff kiln]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

Me personally didn’t happen yet

[maiden oar]

but probably in 11.1.5

[jaunty heath]

I imagine it’s fun when playing with people you know and are decent at keys

[maiden oar]

[jaunty heath]

Pugs make me hate m+ tho so idk

[maiden oar]

yea it seems enjoyable

[tidal salmon]

if its a 7-8+ mob scenario, you do

if everything has fw already maybe you'd lose %0.0001 dps and if not you'd gain like %0.05

who fucking cares on both scenarios anyways

[maiden oar]

yea i just am curious whats objectively corrext

but i guess doesnt matter ill keep pressing ss

[tidal salmon]

i mean it doesnt matter ye, but i do %100 use a storm once anyways

it's giga minimal difference, not even worth thinking about it lol

[maiden oar]

[rain swallow]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shadow ermine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[dense lichen]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[misty hedge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[blazing plume]

is sub still usable?

my friend is dooming me about sub :(

[lucid jackal]

Yes?

[blazing plume]

whew

[rotund depot]

whers best to put ancestral call if im orc? with shadow blades maybe although its 2min?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[honest scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wraith sphinx]

9 times out of 10 u can ignore people dooming about a class or spec

[tribal blade]

can you vanish off the recycler beam add on stix

[alpine wraith]

doesnt it only go on casters?

you can immune it i think

[inner sand]

It goes on everyone and you can’t vanish but can cloak it

[neon walrus]

Guys why is the sub channel always so dead compared to ass/outlaw? 😦 sub is cool..

[alpine wraith]

we have the least amount of people

so it makes sense it will move slower

[plush roost]

Man the sub dream was so real at the start of this season but 15s feel 2x easier and more efficient as assa

[lucid jackal]

its poppin at other times of the day

[plush roost]

Kinda smodge

At least workshop and top are good sub keys

[alpine wraith]

you can also use tfd and charger effectively in other dengeons but when mobs live long you kinda run out of things to throw at them

[plush roost]

Yeah things start living too long in these keys

Where assa or outlaw are just going brrrr

Sub is a noodle

[lucid jackal]

Thats so weird cuz if u ask outlaw players, they say that consistently high damage isnt an upside

weird

[alpine wraith]

i mean you kinda come back when you can dance and everything is ruptured

and then it is a bit good again but meh

turns out when you have a dot that ticks for 600k in cds

it can be strong

now the issue is the drag to put it out wish we had like a thing to just apply rupture to x targets

[lucid jackal]

Sub is fun in keys so I play it

simple as

[alpine wraith]

thankfully in 2 or 3 weeks mastery blast is going to become real

going to go to the moon with it

also a funny thing when you pop house of cards circe's ring gains like 900 mastery too

LUL

[neon walrus]

It’s not that bad??

I quite like the playstyle of bursting super hard at the start then falling off, I like mixing it up with the others too though.

[lucid jackal]

ya sub is super fun in keys

[neon walrus]

And front loading dmg + having good st is good for prio dmg,

[lucid jackal]

Ya I hate sin st in keys

literal passenger princess

[plush roost]

Oh i definitely enjoy it, its downsides just become more apparent as u get higher in keys.

Also assa prio in packs is pretty dang good, just boss dps sucks

[lucid jackal]

Like I did a priory to get trinket so it was just a 10, meanwhile boss dmg

very fun to drop bombs on bosses

cant stand specs that walk into keys where their boss damage is literally 1.3

Sin is also jsut fucking annoying in keys

spreading ur stupid little ruptures, keeping up caustic

Me sectec me drop nukes

[neon walrus]

Yeah sending nukes is fun

[plush roost]

Yeah its very fun when my friends go "wtf char what is your spec" whenever its boss time

[neon walrus]

I wanna see ppl sharing their largest sectech nukes in here

[plush roost]

Motherlode 1st boss

4m+ brrrr

[alpine wraith]

more like 6m

[plush roost]

Over the entire fight? Aint noway

[alpine wraith]

you go omegasayian on it

[neon walrus]

Do you guys just dance on motherlode 1st boss on opener

[neon walrus]

Delay cd’s for that long?

[alpine wraith]

have you dropped a fatty 14sht tfd opener then another one while he is on vuln?

literally strike rupture then afk

[plush roost]

Hmm maybe i should try that

I was backstabbing building cdr from last pull

[alpine wraith]

well yea you have to be careful about cdr too

[plush roost]

Well, usually i am

[alpine wraith]

kinda have to prepare from before

[plush roost]

Just that, the previous pack has to die haha

Peacekeeper assassin thug is no joke

[alpine wraith]

wdym peacekeeper does nothing

you just kite it and nothing happens?

[worn ivy]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

or tank i snatty letting the zaps hit everyone

there was a reason people pulled 6 or 7 of them

[plush roost]

The big mech? The one that smacks for 60% hp every tick of the shield? Maybe my healers just suck idk

[alpine wraith]

no he does that every auto

but if he does not auto it does nothing

[plush roost]

Oh so my tanks just dont kite i c ic

Gonna keep that one in mind haha

[alpine wraith]

well i dont think people are too keen on pulling lots of them because they have the annoying aoe they drop now too

and well if there is only one tanks do a lot of dmg too so it makes sense they tank it if the healer can heal the dmg

just to make it die faster

[plush roost]

Yeah goop is just stack and move tbh, rdps trolling it is just annoying

Maybe I'm just feeling unsafe when i shouldn't be with peacekeepers idk everyone says they suck

[alpine wraith]

diff mentality maybe when on mdi they pull 7 of them

people begin to realise

[storm cloak]

guys im trying so hard to rmb to backstab

i cant rmb ever

what do i do

in my open for premed

[lucid jackal]

More practice

Or dont bother cuz its half a percent of dps

its also not just the opener

its every dance

[storm cloak]

erry ea

idk why my brain just ignores it i even made a wa LOL

its like lagi n my brain, ill hit dance then 5s later im like fuck man i didnt backstab

[lucid jackal]

lmao yeah

Takes a bit of getting used to

[rocky ocean]

Neuroplasticity be real

[alpine wraith]

i can make a motivational clip if it helps you

you can do it!

[tribal blade]

i'm still enjoying playing sub in keys, but it just feels bad not being able to keep up in high target count

[twin quartz]

anyone know offhand what the range of nimble flurry is?

[alpine wraith]

8y around ya

[twin quartz]

ty ty

[alpine wraith]

you can get the fuu wa for range it tells you targets in range of storm

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[storm cloak]

googled this and yes

[subtle raft]

Does it matter if I use a Sword in offhand as Sub?

[alpine wraith]

yea it matters quite a bit try to always use 2 daggers

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[subtle raft]

damn thats sad 😦 alright ty

[tribal blade]

i agree, this is something sub really needs

that would be the simplest way without tuning to give sub better mass aoe

[bitter cliff]

A question. When you major cooldown have around 35 seconds left. And a sectech is available without shadow dance. do you use it or just wait 35 seconds?

[lucid jackal]

You would symbols sectec without dance

[analog solar]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fleet acorn]

On aoe pulls with big mob value why is my dmg better with eviscerating over bp?

I cant get close to a boomkin/ele/Fire mage on sub

[near compass]

vers/mastery stats on crafted dagger ?

[quaint lodge]

Yes

[round latch]

everywhere

[near compass]

ty, tought so but wasnt sure

[round latch]

yw fam

[quaint lodge]

If you link a log we can tell you why

[steel zinc]

and 3rd boss drops bis dagger

[quaint lodge]

Otherwise, you're most likely doing something wrong and we will not know other than what you tell us

[viscid rune]

Hello ! 👋
I'm optimizing my keybinds for Subtlety and wondering if Slice and Dice is worth keeping bound, or since it refreshes on its own, I can just remove it. Do you guys manually press it, or is it a waste of a keybind?

[tribal blade]

i still keep the button on my bars to press between pulls in M+ to farm cdr, but i don't have it bound

i just click it

[viscid rune]

Why doesn't it go off by itself?

[tribal blade]

sorry i don't get what you mean

[viscid rune]

Why do I have to refresh it manually?

[paper iron]

There are classes u wont ever beat unless they disconnect. It is what it is

[keen dome]

Spending combie points reduces the cooldown of dance / sectec.

So between pulls, being able to spend your remaining points ('cos going into a new pack you'll have premed anyway, so full gen from that) on S&D to get some extra CDR (cooldown reduction) is useful.

[viscid rune]

So if I understand correctly you only use it between 2 pulls to maintain the buff?

(manually)

[keen dome]

It's not about maintainig the buff. It's about using it as a tool to farm CDR to optimize your cooldowns a bit more. I wouldn't worry about it too much if you aren't sure how it works 🙂

Get comfy with the rest of the kit first.

[autumn glade]

it's a minmax thing to get some cooldown on dance inbetween pulls, since you'll prob either restealth for premed or pop dance shortly after new pull so current combo points can just be sent on slice and dice

you don't have to do this at all and you'll be fine

[vagrant thorn]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[viscid rune]

Ok ty ❤️ @autumn glade @keen dome

I have another question about the Dance Macabre. Would I have to do a weak aura to get the 9-10 charges or is it really not that important?

[dry plank]

It is not important but some packs has it

[autumn glade]

I don't track it at all, you'll just get the stacks from proper play shouldn't have a "target" stack count to aim for

[vale pine]

You don't aim for high dm stacks, the only trick you do for them is a backstab in dance

[autumn glade]

It's optimal atm to send backstab after dance to consume premed to get an extra stack

[viscid rune]

Ok thanks

[dry plank]

Hon

[paper iron]

Deez Muts stacks

[lusty mango]

Can I swap targets while Flagellation is running?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[iron spear]

How do we feel about the current state of rogue and especially subtlety?

[keen dome]

Rogue is good and cool and Sub is great right now

[alpine wraith]

well rogue is nice if you dont have to fight for a melee spot

but min max raid leads might sit all rogues if they could because other melee are quite stronger

now will they do it?

who knows

[hollow spear]

RL will just play 14 outlaws soon

Perma feint, ignore mechanics

[rain kernel]

the trinket tuning is on tuesday as well right?

[quaint lodge]

Its live, class tuning is tuesday

[alpine wraith]

think even if outlaw could equip two noggenfoggers

[tribal blade]

i feel like the day of reckoning will come for outlaw in that regard

[alpine wraith]

we still would get completely dominated by warrs and ww

you cant just make 400k dps appear from nothing

or more

[hollow spear]

Apparently the bug fix almost made up the aura nerf on ww. Not sure if ppl were memeing when I read that, but I wouldn't put it past blizzard.

[tribal blade]

similar thing happened last season with "nerfs" to sin

where it ended up actually being a slight overall buff

[hollow spear]

I missed my guild raid and still have a chance at hc goons

At the same time I'd have to pug

Rip

[keen dome]

Mug'zee isn't so bad to pug right now. He's extremely solved as a boss for pugs.

So if you just get a decent damage group he'll die this week easy

Just make sure it's a group doing proper assignments and marks for gaols and it's gg

Most of the bad groups are still stuck on OAB

[alpine wraith]

i pugged gally last week

so people are kiling mug zee

[exotic solstice]

anyone got a wa to track last dance

[alpine wraith]

first dance you mean

[keen dome]

Ye. I got Gally this week on Weds, but Mug'zee last week.

[exotic solstice]

ye

[keen dome]

If the group is on Mug'zee it's likely going to kill Mug'zee 'cos it beat Bandit and bandit is the real pug test

[brazen meadow]

how bad is macroing backstab to shadow dance?

[autumn glade]

it's not, it's even a command

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[keen trellis]

They are kinda different no? That macro you have to press twice vs actually macroing backstab to dance (2 /cast), which you shouldnt do if you want to use dance on high cp to finish

[sick dagger]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[tall hatch]

oh boy DFC 6 .. 1.5 mil... im ''awesome''

[short radish]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tall hatch]

Any1 can recommend some guide to watch for m+ sub?
i feel like it will take ages till i will learn sub

[alpine wraith]

you can watch mine and ask things

[wild hornet]

im fighting for a spot and i almost lost

but i won

[tall hatch]

wich one it is?
youtube right?

[vestal dove]

@half remnant i c u bro

[alpine wraith]

yea yt

[half remnant]

[tall hatch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HIPtKQbcVI this one right?

[alpine wraith]

there is a newer one

[tall hatch]

hmm ill search quick

[alpine wraith]

you can check in my sheet it is easier to find there

yt search can be a bit messed up

[tall hatch]

found it the 0 to hero one 😄

[quick compass]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

anyone got any hot tips for starting stix prog tomorrow

[warm marlin]

hold cds for after sorting is like the only important thing

[brazen meadow]

Shindigg on yt has a very helpful video

[limpid sage]

I'm gonna cry

[tribal blade]

mm i see yeah ok

looks simple enough, literally every cd set after 1st set is cast after sorting p much

[warm marlin]

yep can hold a bit for add pad or just send once you're sure you're not balled

idk what ur comp looks like but we had our only boomkin comm when he got balled and most of the melee went out to burst far adds

one dance is enough to pop it off and have it walk back to the tricks'd tank

[twin hound]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[valid vault]

have they done something to transmitter, for some reason it was perma delayed to my flag eventhough its macroed into it

[quick horizon]

M+ affix

[alpine wraith]

yea affix gives cdr

[valid vault]

that is putrid

[tame flint]

Is Signet of the Priory any good for Sub? I only have Delve trinkets besides that one and I wanted to try Sub in a few keys

[alpine wraith]

it is quite bad

you can get the pvp conquest trinket it is quite decent

[tame flint]

ok, Well ihave turbo drain 5000, blastmaster 3000 and garbage someting

oh and the sipping one

[uncut juniper]

I heard from a friend that sub has a bug for more dps, is that true?

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[hazy breach]

No, that was a thing like 2 months ago for one week on the PTR

[sonic hamlet]

!log

[lost kite]

Can you craft the pvp on use trinket or do you need to farm the conquest too buy?

[hazy breach]

You cant craft

but even if you could it would be 20 ilvls higher if you buy if with conquest

[lost kite]

So better to just farm it?

700 conquest is alot for a non pvp enjoyer

[limber relic]

It really isn't bad. Do all the weekly quests and the first win bonus for the bgs and your there

[lost kite]

I thought it wasn’t pvp weekly quests this week?

[astral minnow]

there is a quest on Wintergrasp 250 conquest for 10 HK

[lost kite]

Or it has pvp weekly’s every week

No idea dont pvp at all lol

[solemn creek]

Crate farming group os really good too

[lost kite]

Just sucks abit didn’t play last season so no transmitter so kinda gotta get pvp one as the house of cards is heavy contested

[solemn creek]

If u dont wanna mingle with pvp

[solemn creek]

If u dont have transmitter. U should be pretty up there foe house of card

[lost kite]

And what you think I’ll just high roll it cause no trasmitter?

Better I just go get pvp trinket and try for cards every week

Rn I got the motherlode one that has the chance to give agility increase but ofc it’s not reliable to proc in cds

[solemn creek]

Do u not have a raid team? I was assuming u did

[short radish]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO AT 1:40 ON MYTHIC SPROCKET IF YOU STILL HAVE TRANSMITTER AND IT TELLS YOU TO JUMP 3 TIMES

FUCK THIS DOG SHIT TRINKET

pa;ksdjlaksdhasl;dhasdsaas

please game

give me a house of cards

[paper iron]

do pvp

[alpine wraith]

pvp trink to the rescue

[short radish]

[lost kite]

No I don’t don’t have the time to be in a raid team atm having to live off pugs

Hence why the pvp trink will probably be my go to untill I get it in vault haha

[paper iron]

Or dinar!

Dont forget that this season targetting trinkets will be much easier

[lilac stag]

but but but my sim dps

[alpine wraith]

the sim dps sometimes decides to scale walls

to fuck with you

[lilac stag]

scales walls and still gets it to align with Sectech.

[paper iron]

my sim tells me to reroll ww

[hazy breach]

You sure its not saving deva

[paper iron]

wanna have fun eleem

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1353336235359342643/image.png?ex=67e14816&is=67dff696&hm=99843b136359ead7b52c149f4f276a825e32918a63223f2588593cccbeb73e03&

first vexxie phase, boss damage only

lust + amp phase all 2mn cds

buff devoker u can clearly see

[lilac stag]

They have to buff it so all the Aug vokers who can play the game can do decent dps

[paper iron]

i mean

devoker is legit

1.1 buttons rn

it s not hate or anything

it sjust what it is

[lilac stag]

and legit people still struggle with it

[steel zinc]

still idm using the old one with vanish

its net 0

[alpine wraith]

i meant video but ok

[tame flint]

so, i am new at the sub game, haven't touched it since like early s2 of SL...but I have been banging away at the ST dummy in Dorn. does this look about right? it was a 6min fight with no potions

[steel zinc]

sry

[lilac stag]

I’m just bracing myself for assa to gape sub on wcl after N.A. goes live.

[steel zinc]

thought you ment the opener

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/winter-is-coming-jon-snow-game-of-thrones-got-gif-16908557

[steel zinc]

just need then sub buffs

tbh if they reverted the tier set nerfs and 5% sectech

thats all we need imo

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

Tbh idk if it’s Sectech that needs it or Evis & (smh) storm/bs to get us up just a little bit above healer dmg out of cds.

[steel zinc]

I mean the dmg profile shifted so much imo

I remember in SL we were funnel and BP spamming

and had pretty flag dps compared to now

[hazy breach]

Damage outside cds? Thats some outlaw type shit

[steel zinc]

yes hax

[lilac stag]

We’ve just hit two extremes. I’m not saying major crazy, but upping evis would help both in and out of cds

[steel zinc]

agree also no meme bp

[paper iron]

when gloomblade were where the damage was

kekw

[lilac stag]

fuck BP

[steel zinc]

I heared another 30% bp buff

gotta use it everywhere

[paper iron]

gameplay / damage profile

rogue is fine rn

it s just utility / tuning

[steel zinc]

gameplay rn imo is fun

[paper iron]

imo

[steel zinc]

Like if you like big burst sub is right up there

[lilac stag]

watch holy priest dmg outside of CDs in keys maybe a little on the low end.

https://tenor.com/view/just-a-little-bit-sam-johnson-just-few-just-a-bit-gif-21650928

[paper iron]

u want more fun

from the same vexxie pull?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1353335429512040528/image.png?ex=67e14756&is=67dff5d6&hm=b79d9b5c3db4b2e4bcc69748d1bd75298bec33941a46d9e208412c4f9c41f917&

outside of cds damage

boss damage only

[lilac stag]

Have you tried auto attacking harder?

[paper iron]

I DID !

[lilac stag]

damn

Did your weapons break?

[paper iron]

these lows are just

too low

[alpine wraith]

big rupture energy

[paper iron]

but it s fine

[lilac stag]

Was the WW dead?

[paper iron]

massiv damage

nah he just rerolled monk 3 days ago

so he s learning

[lilac stag]

gotcha

shoulda went mage.

he’ll learn

[paper iron]

rik

for sure devoker needs a buff

cant u see

[lilac stag]

what did your evoker play before?

[paper iron]

was a dh main

[lilac stag]

holy apm swap

[paper iron]

then he switched devoker when it got released

and

tbf

[lilac stag]

how is he staying awake

[hazy breach]

Did you see this btw censi. From liquids reclear on bandit, last phase (sub30%)

[paper iron]

he s one of the greatest devoker, he rank 1 multiples boss

[paper iron]

i dont, i d like to know

[hazy breach]

Its a bit crusty

but find the impostor

[paper iron]

i think currently, u wanna just skip playing a rogue in your comp if u can, no joke

nice prot damage

[lilac stag]

Honestly if he was used to havoc he can probably see 20 casts ahead on evoker

[lilac stag]

Assa will save us

[paper iron]

lemme check apm

[lilac stag]

I kinda want to test one now. Are they still limited to dragoons?

[paper iron]

scath btw

i already chose my fate

in random dungeons rn it s only mages devoker monk lmao

[lilac stag]

I’m surprised not more UHDK

[paper iron]

think it will drop

in higher higher keys

[lilac stag]

Even our frost was pumping. Like bust not as high, but not dry after 25 seconds either.

Motherload was a struggle to keep up with fdk and bm

pug tank didn’t help

[paper iron]

yo i ve met an aug

[alpine wraith]

problem about uhdk is that it needs the team to let him cook

[lilac stag]

legit debating on where to use 3rd craft.

[alpine wraith]

i will craft wrists

big mastery

[lilac stag]

assa set doesn’t need much, sub kinda the same.

[paper iron]

biggest issue of uhdk is that its single target is beyond trash

but will see later

[lilac stag]

1H is a 90k Dps upgrade. Kekw and puts outlaw at like 2.45 sim vs 2.1 on the other

Recraft neck and it’s another 70k dps. lol

I need a tier helm to drop.

Sitting on mythic pants in bags.

[tribal blade]

people kinda don't give a shit when the high target count dungeon mobs need to die

in priory and cinderbrew

every one of those keys i try signing up for grabs a udk and boomy

usually a fire mage too

boomy is gonna be beyond busted after they get buffs

[paper iron]

yea mage obviously

u want a mage

and 1 to 2 pi for him

i can see

mage sp boomie disco

no joke

[tribal blade]

yeah it's looking grim to pug for anything not slotted in those spots

[paper iron]

as usual i would say, melee are a no go

mage + priest is obvious

[tribal blade]

luckily i have a 3 stack of players lined up atm

[paper iron]

then idk

[tribal blade]

1 of em my guildie

boomy is already so good

so after their ST buffs they're gonna be through the roof

i don't think spriest is that important, you can just throw in a disc or holy there

massive holy buffs inc too

[paper iron]

but also

rdruid is juicy asf

[lost kite]

Only just saw this message can you explain further?

[paper iron]

we will get later in the patch a dinar, or more we dont have much info yet. This currency will allow u to buy anything u want from raid. usually u ll use it on trinkets / special items that are hard to get

[lost kite]

What’s the way of getting these?

Just handed out or will there be a quest?

[tribal blade]

iirc we don't know yet

[lost kite]

I’d assume some kind of quest

[tribal blade]

how or when we get them

[paper iron]

We dont know yet but will be pretty simple

yea that kind of stuff

[lost kite]

Alright we’ll that’s really cool did the mention of what difficulty track the items are you can buy?

[paper iron]

AH YEA MAGE ON THIS DUNGEON AHAHAHA

i m inside the boat fun

[lost kite]

Will be shitty if they did vet track

[tribal blade]

if it works the same way you can buy it at something like champ track and upgrade it with something else

[lost kite]

Makes sense of the coins are plain useless if they can’t even go hc track

[haughty rose]

yo

couple questions on rotation

guides mention on 7+ targets i use shadowstrike as CP builder in shadow dance. is there a cap on where i'm supposed to use shuriken storm? at some point it has to be more efficient right?

also some guides say i should use finisher at 5+ CP and otheres say at 6+ CP. What's more efficient? Is it bad to overcap CP's when having 6 for example and use Shadowstrike?

[lost kite]

It’s always shadowstrike in shadow dance I tend to use shuriken storm outside of shadow dance with 3+ just for combo points idk if that is correct tho

[tribal blade]

you only use storm during dance to apply FW to all targets, you cast it to consume the 2nd rotten charge

(rotten is one of our capstone talents)

and in general just finish when you hit 5 CPs in dance

using x2 builders in a row during dance can lead to some cursed energy

[haughty rose]

is this at 2+ already i assume right? and basically every time after i hit symbols on more than one target?

[tribal blade]

you're only casting storm during dance if you're going to be pressing black powder, so at 7+ targets

[full acorn]

Is the SD/SOD macro worth it?

[paper iron]

not at all

learn without it is a must, specially in current iteration with supercharger

[haughty rose]

aight thanks. so ignoring 30% of the armor isn't worth it for nimble flurry?

[full acorn]

Yeah but if you SD you always wanna SOD right?

[tribal blade]

it sounds like it would be but it's not

because 1 strike with rotten guaranteed critting +35% dmg nimbling for 60% to other targets is a lot of dam

[haughty rose]

ok good to know. thanks!

[tribal blade]

yes, but if you use the macro you're gonna screw up your cds pretty badly

trust

your 2nd dance during cds you will usually not want to send symbols at the exact time you send dance

[full acorn]

Is that because they both overlap GCD wise like the CB Sectec macro?

[tribal blade]

nah they don't share a gcd

it's because you want to dance back to back during cds

[cerulean stream]

!pu

[tribal blade]

but sectec won't be ready to fire immediately when you send your 2nd dance

[cerulean stream]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[tribal blade]

and you want sectec to be empowered by supercharger granted by symbols

so you want to send your 2nd dance, THEN press symbols when sectec has 10 secs or less cd left

[full acorn]

ok

[tribal blade]

if you use the macro you either have to delay your 2nd dance by a few globals or not have sectec supercharged

[hazy breach]

If you have them macroed you have to either A. not supercharger the sectech or B. delay your dance so you wont have blades&trinket up for most the second dance

Neither of which are great options when you could get the best of both worlds by not macroing

[tribal blade]

sub rogue channel been breaking people's macro hearts circa 2016

(i don't even know when this channel was started, i'm guessing it was then)

[paper iron]

in SL it was okish to macro

nowadays it s just a straight big loss

[hollow spear]

I think it's actually good

Macros also take away from actually understanding how your spec works

[full acorn]

Do you want to macro SD BS? thats another one ive heard i should do (My friend also plays sub so know im just curious if its troll what hes told me)

[hollow spear]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[paper iron]

i m guessing they will delete sod and put it as a passive inside of dance, when i look at what they ve done to disco sp mage boomie

but for now, gotta use 2 binds

[hazy breach]

Could just bake flag into blades as well

But idk probably not gonna happen for a while

[paper iron]

yea idk about flag / blades, would mean lot of balancing arround. Like in pvp u dont play flag at all so idk

but sd / sod i can totally see that happening randomely

[hollow spear]

Make st reset with dance

[paper iron]

that s called bte and it s crackshot

[hollow spear]

And include cold blood into sectec

[paper iron]

ACTUALLY

make sectech no cd during dance

kidding

[full pollen]

you guys play around tset ? so you wait for a specific amount of stacks before you use cd's?

[vestal dove]

What’s the take on if you should be BPing in m+ keys 14+ or eviscerate spam on prio target/high hp mob (which does less dps overall) to help everything die same time?

[tribal blade]

i think sectec should only be usable in dance

[full pollen]

M+ only *

[paper iron]

and backstab turns into strike during dance also

[tribal blade]

depends on the pull, if it's a pull like the creepers in darkflame or void elementals before last boss of rookery you can safely just evis spam no matter the target count

[tribal blade]

yeah that would be rad too

[hazy breach]

You also know that the boomkin in your group is still gonna starfall and then flame you for losing the overall

[tribal blade]

too true

and the ret

if you play with one of those monkeys

[hollow spear]

Ret in meadery

My god

I can't

[tribal blade]

press 1 button top overall

[paper iron]

iu m a mage now

[tribal blade]

let's goooo

[paper iron]

dont kill my aoe

please

it s my ignite

lemme ramp

tyvm

[wise pilot]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[tribal blade]

haha fire mage 3% nerf

you're chilling

frost getting buffed

[paper iron]

big chilling

[full pollen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Its even better when youre playing assa on something like that

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade ready for assa or outlaw arc?

[hazy breach]

Where their aoe is actually making it take longer

Because they killed your funnel

[tribal blade]

lol i'm way ahead of you, i've been doing sin keys the past few days

nothing super high, just getting used to playing sin again

[hazy breach]

That shit happens in very very high keys too on streams

[tribal blade]

and i played sin in alt heroic raid today

[tribal blade]

haha sin rogues begging for small shitter mobs not to get aoed down

[paper iron]

yea like i always said

[tribal blade]

classic

[paper iron]

ret are great and all

but it just doesnt work with all 3 rogue spec

like

u do more overall damage

[lilac stag]

I ran outlaw in normal to see how triggered my fibromyalgia got

[paper iron]

but the key is longer

people swear by overall they cant think about time

[tribal blade]

ret does almost no prio

[paper iron]

0 prio at all

[tribal blade]

so yeah it's not great for speeding up keys in meaningful ways depending on the pulls

[lilac stag]

0 prio, ton of support

most rets don’t know what support means

[tribal blade]

BUT you do need big ook ook aoe dam in keys like cinderbrew and priory

[paper iron]

but

i think ret can be emta this season actually

[tribal blade]

i don't see them being meta picks

[lilac stag]

what do they bring to boomy mage comp?

[paper iron]

sac

is enough

[lilac stag]

and?

Sac DN

[paper iron]

already more than rogue

[lilac stag]

I’ll take the rogue over the ret

[paper iron]

bop and all

u yea

99% of the pugs no

[tribal blade]

good rets are actually quite valuable

[paper iron]

they swear by overall

[tribal blade]

if they do a lot of offhealing and externals

[paper iron]

dont forget

also

ret is 10 times easier than rogue to play

[lilac stag]

There’s also like 80:1 rets applying over rogue.

[paper iron]

so more chance to meet a better ret than rogue

[full acorn]

Do you have to use the combo points on the mob with flag or no?

[tribal blade]

no doesn't matter

[full acorn]

Nice

[lilac stag]

nah show me a high io rogue and its a better shot they have a clue than random ret number 5837373

[tribal blade]

just make sure the mob you put flag on will survive the entire 12 second ramp duration

[full acorn]

yea

[oak grotto]

If I dont have CD's, do I try to keep Rupture on as many targets as possible in AoE?

So if it is a 12-15mobs pull you still send rupture?

Or is there like a limit to when it's not worth to send Rupture and just instead send BP?

[full acorn]

@oak grotto Ran into that in Meadery also curious what people think

But i think it depends on how long the mobs live

[oak grotto]

That's what I'm saying brotha

[full acorn]

so dot the big bois and Bp after

thats what i do atleast

[lilac stag]

If they live more than 12 seconds. Rupture

[oak grotto]

I did like 20+mobs pulls in +11/+12 so do I wanna send BP just cause I will hit everyone, or Builder into Rupture ten times in a row

[lilac stag]

the short of it, it really doesn’t matter. We do healer damage out of cds. You’re just trying to get cdt going to get cds up again.

[full acorn]

But like sometimes your teammates pop big cds and the mobs die super quick so it can be hard to calc how long they live

[oak grotto]

^

[lilac stag]

welcome to sub

[oak grotto]

Retpaladin and Firemage in the group, so before my ruptures are applied mobs are 50%

[lilac stag]

Plan better

[full acorn]

hehe

[lilac stag]

pugs are worse. An organized group you should be able to coordinate

[full acorn]

Is there a WA to see teammates CDS

tanks must be using something like that

[lucid jackal]

There is 0 reason to rupture the pack first if you have your Cd's ready

[hazy breach]

Ye dont delay blades and flag, but delaying a regular dance is fine

[lilac stag]

I think Quazii has a cd tracker on his website.

blast your CDs. Cry when you’re out of them.

[full wyvern]

OmniCD can track offensive cds

[vestal dove]

im talking about pulls like 1st pull in cinderbrew where i could be eviscerating into the 2 muscles to help them die quicker while the fire mage and balance druid spam flamestrike and starfall - i would do less dps overall if i spam evis but it would be more helpful for the timer if high hp mobs die faster no?

[oak grotto]

Why do you use Shurikenstorm when 3+ if Flawless form is up? Doesnt Flawless form make it so you trigger Nimble Fury and therefore get more benefit from Backstab in 3target?

Or am I just reading it wrong

[vocal crypt]

what do you think about remanant of darkness trinket ? Sims not that bad but its more like rng when you get the agi buff

[hazy breach]

Yes, if those mobs live longer and you have to singletarget them at the end it wouldve been better to use more priority damage to them than to fully aoe

[vestal dove]

you spam shuriken storm while you have flawless form active to build Combo points faster so your shadowdance comes back off cd and only backstab in aoe to maintain the buff

[hazy breach]

Combo points are worth more than the damage from backstab cleaving

[oak grotto]

Ah okay I see

[vestal dove]

dont worry about the stacks of the buff too much either - just ensure you have atleast 1 stack

[oak grotto]

This question might seem to be pretty dumb but I still ask cause my readingcomprehension isnt top tier

So you send Backstab to get Unseen blade, and therefore you get Flawless form and since you got Flawless form, you activate Nimble Flurry?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter to do that backstab but yes

The uptime of flawless is so high anyway

[oak grotto]

Is there any need to track Flawless? Or does it have such a high uptime that it's unnecessary

[hazy breach]

Yes, you would technically prefer to bp over evis on aoe if you dont have it up

My point was that doing the backstab to apply the buff again doesnt matter much, because you dont do much damage outside cds anyway so its not that big of a deal if you use a bp instead of a nimble evis once every minute outside cds

[oak grotto]

Also, lets say I open on the 5 dummies in Dornogal, should I open with Stealth -> Flag -> Rupture x1 or x2 before sending Dance/SoD + Backstab

Do I wanna apply rupture to 2 or 4 out of 5 dummies

Cause it says optional on wowhead

[hazy breach]

If you know the targets will live through your cooldowns you can apply ruptures to all targets beforehand yes

If not then dont

[oak grotto]

Ah okay tyty

[exotic solstice]

how many % should shadowblades be doing on a m+ run ?

ish

[solid vale]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spiral atlas]

any1 have a decent video for sub rogue, im more of a visual person to learn stuff

[meager coyote]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[exotic solstice]

anyone have a wa for tracking the first dance ?

[lucid jackal]

my package does

[exotic solstice]

@lucid jackal is it in pins ?

[hazy breach]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[light imp]

Does black powder have any interaction with nimble flurry? i just did a dungeon with a sub rogue who seemed to cast a lot of black powder compared to when i play sub, and his nimble flurry damage seemed quite high for how often he appeared to be casting black powder

[hazy breach]

No interaction no

[gritty knot]

Just search for a "Crate" farming group. Every 5 minutes u ll get 60 conquest points. Takes not even 1 hour and u can buy that trinket. Easy and superfast 🙂

[jagged hamlet]

Shindigg on youtube just posted a 40 min walk through of everything about the spec.

[lost kite]

Where are these groups listed

[gritty knot]

Group Finder, PvP and then select the last one. I think it's "Custom"?

[copper vapor]

hello

does nimble flurry flurry targets the main target as well or not ?

[lost kite]

Alright will check it out

[tribal elbow]

outside of cooldowns, is it:

(low energy, 6-7 combo points) symbols of death, sectech, shadow dance

or (low energy, low combo points) shadow dance, backstab for danse macabre, symbols of death, sectech

it's gotta be the second one (dance first) cuz of the 4 set bonus right

even delaying the secret technique for the 2nd supercharged combo point for some more danse macabre if you want to be "extra"

[hazy breach]

Its either 6+ or 0-1 cp

But before you gotta make sure youll have enough dances and symbols for your next flag

If youre good with that, then send sectech as first finisher, dont delay symbols

[tribal elbow]

oh i mean which order is ideal if you can use all 3 together without delaying flagellation and shadow blades; shadow dance before symbols, or symbols before shadow dance?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter if you dance or symbols first

Theyre both off-gcd

[tribal elbow]

oh i see thanks

[hazy breach]

You shouldnt really track or care about danse macabre

[lucid jackal]

U can for fun but u dont react to the number and play differently

[noble fjord]

Is it worth to have Symbois of Death macroed with Shadow Dance?

[lucid jackal]

nop

[tribal elbow]

historically in WoW effects like these don't also trigger on the primary target, but you should be able to do a raidbots single target quick sim and look at the damage breakdown and you probably won't see nimble flurry there

[hazy breach]

If you also have them bound seperately yes, but not all the time no

[signal heath]

So if it’s 3+ more targets and we’re not in CD window we use Sstorm… and evis is we have flawless form/ black powder if not?

[white sapphire]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RAwCq73GvpFMx6dc?fight=last&type=damage-done

can someone log review this

struggling on sub

[signal heath]

With less then 7 targets

[hot bridge]

so real quick i have major question

[crystal bone]

im wondering if i did something wrong when i shadowstrike in dance and only get 5/7 CP

i notice it sometimes in keys, not so much in raid

[lucid jackal]

You made the mistake of not grouping with a shaman

[crystal bone]

[solemn creek]

With shadowblade u get max cp everytime