subtlety

[paper iron]

Anyway

[fleet acorn]

is my ST sim good? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kW8rvKKKgiurX5XXouz2Fu

[lilac stag]

just dont switch

[tribal blade]

if you need to kidney something

[lilac stag]

mouseover

[paper iron]

Have à mouseover macro

[tribal blade]

i've never actually set up mouseover kidney

[paper iron]

But also

Unbind ks

[lilac stag]

becuase if you can switch to that target in 20 you can switch to your mark target

[tribal blade]

i think i still stand with playing around mark is absolute dogshit

[paper iron]

At the time you ll need ks the mob will be dr

Remake kidney shot into kidney sweep

[lilac stag]

deathstalker is just dog shit. like all of the rogue hero talents

[paper iron]

Instead of 2%leech on one gcd

[lilac stag]

trickster on sub just happens to be the least dogshit of the two

[paper iron]

Yea

[tribal blade]

i don't know if any other hero tree requires you to constrict your gameplay so heavily

[paper iron]

Because cleave

[vale pine]

aoe kidney

sounded soo good

[paper iron]

Because they nerfed sectec by 15s

[vale pine]

i am honest, i still don't understand the initial secret nerf

[paper iron]

Idk

[vale pine]

especially now that we saw balance tuning

[lilac stag]

them not realizing the tier was the problem on the ptr

[paper iron]

As i said multiples time

Sub is in the best spot, top of Middle pack

But then

[lilac stag]

now they leave as is, to increase assa playrate in mythic

[paper iron]

Tuning patch happen and doesnt make sens

Sub fall off

Now it will be in à weird spot

[lilac stag]

as per usual

[vale pine]

^

[paper iron]

Assa getting St buff is really lovely and needed

But 3% aura buff was not needed for m+ compared to other rogue specs

Was needed compared to other class in the game

[vale pine]

but assassiantion performed on par

to subtlety on single target

[paper iron]

But at the same title sub needs à 5ish % buff in keys

[vale pine]

going with the same logic, wouldn't it make sense for both specs to get similar buffs?

[lilac stag]

sub needs less reliance on skyfury

[paper iron]

Is it really on par

[vale pine]

look at wcl

[lilac stag]

it is on par in heroic and mythic

[paper iron]

Think sin is super being on boss damage

On rik

On locken

[lilac stag]

outlaw slowly getting the higher parses overall

[paper iron]

Sorry to be that elitist But idc about heroic at all

[lilac stag]

unfortunately thats what they have the most numbers to look at after 2 weeks

[paper iron]

I m not on pc rn But was pretty sûre assa was being on boss damage where amp isnt à thing

[lilac stag]

and while I agree it's crap

[vale pine]

if anthing, sin is already the top in boss damage

there rly is statistically little diffrence between the two specs atm

and the assumption with tuning changes is, that these are based on statistics

[paper iron]

Most of hc kills here are 2mn40

[lilac stag]

next week will be interesting to see the numbers of parses

[paper iron]

I would assume

[slate marlin]

Thats hc tho

[lilac stag]

in mythic

[vale pine]

one is hc, the other mythic

[paper iron]

That makes assa better to look at

Right?

I think sub Will still be better in mithyc

[crystal bone]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

i guess easiest is to look at a very single target heavy fight

mugzee?

[crystal bone]

jesus sin is giga juiced in keys now wtf

[vale pine]

or whats the best case for that

if we look at mugzee

assassiantion is already ahead of subtlety

[paper iron]

Oab is good for sub. Mugzee will better sub because 2x cd is better than 1x cd during exec

[deep estuary]

Anyone know of some kind of sub raid guide? Like every boss, when to use cds, when to hold etc. Tips n tricks

[paper iron]

And gally shouldnt matter idk not enough sample

[lilac stag]

assuming mug doesn’t get adjusted.

[paper iron]

That s crazy fuu

Now

Im mad

[vale pine]

both icy veins and wowhead have a section for it

but for most parts

[paper iron]

Devoker got giga buff

[slate marlin]

been for a while

[vale pine]

the important raid figths is

[paper iron]

Remember that

[vale pine]

*raid cheeses

is on rick reverb

[crystal bone]

yea but now its just silly lol

[vale pine]

you want to use evasion to be able to stay on boss

as it makes you take no damage from the brown ground aoe

its one of the nice things

[deep estuary]

When he slams down? Evasion ignores that? Sick

[vale pine]

yes

else there isn't rly much

most fights have no real big cheeses

but what i can suggets you

is to use this website

[ornate lake]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

for cooldown management

[deep estuary]

Aye will do ty

[vale pine]

https://www.lorrgs.io/

^ this one

it allows you to see how people used their offensive cooldowns

and outside of this

just jump in here into chat

and ask if you are unsure about a specific boss

we have many people who progress these fights right now or killed it

to give you some tips if you have questions

[lilac stag]

we jokingly said it from the start. if assa playrate is down, it will get a buff. the early sims being so low and people being a little more open to trying sub / rwf running sub tanked mythic assa numbers.

[sand monolith]

Best way to learn honestly is via osmosis

[lilac stag]

this isn't shocking. just be glad it wasnt a buff to BP

the one sub advantage is still how fucking tanky it is in raid, but that's not really going to make up being lower on boss dmg / not having huge priorty adds to burst

[paper iron]

My best tips is to reroll mage

[deep estuary]

Thanks 👍

[crystal bone]

its true for me, i started checking out sub and i think i love it for raid now

its so satisfying to go from rank 18 on the meters to gapping rank 1 hard

in 20 seconds

[paper iron]

Even with rwf play

If dust was still à thing

Sub would have à lower playrate

Sub gameplay is just good rn

[iron whale]

btw I know it's just a me thing, but for how much I love sub rogue it feels so underwhelming how on same gear level I struggle on execution and performance especially with more than 1 mob even in overworld... and when I pick my havoc DH I can just mindlessly PULVERIZE 30 mobs together without even caring about my hp for half a second

[paper iron]

I think rogue Will get the sp boomie mage disco hpal treatement soon

Aka

Becomes à 3 buttons straight forward class

One builder aoe. One builder St. Same with spender. Symbol paired with dance passively

Stuff like that

I feel it

[iron whale]

hmm

[dry plank]

Here is also some delulu people who use sim numbers as class power and ignore raid encounter specifics and other variables. That’s why sub was popular for 3 weeks )

[paper iron]

If u use sims to compare specs/ class

U re already wrong

[lilac stag]

WW vs rogue wasn’t wrong.

[paper iron]

But

I sim 2.2

My devoker sims 2.1

But he does 500k more than me

[dry plank]

When difference is 500k you can’t be wrong but between assa and sub it was minor

[lilac stag]

so you’re better at playing evoker. Noted

[paper iron]

Devoker apm is the same as sub out of cds

And priority wise its easier than ret to say the least

U can 99% devoker in à day

[lilac stag]

all the channels and what not I’m assuming

[paper iron]

No cap

[deep estuary]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[paper iron]

Current devoker is genuily 1 buttons press

[upper narwhal]

it's funny I was reading the rotation guide on WoWhead for Dev, and it's like an hour long essay that boils down to "press 1 button"

well written tho no flame

[paper iron]

They have good guide writters

Imo

Rogue evoker sp

Are great

[upper narwhal]

ye preheat is a GOAT

[paper iron]

i didnt like shaman one but it s probably because i prefered getting coach by a friend that i know for a while and who knows everything

mage is a mess to me, way too many words for nothing

lock idk, ww i hated it when i tried

[upper narwhal]

mage has good info it's just badly structured imo

[paper iron]

ret i didnt need a guide

tbf

mage has the mage hub thing

that s great

[upper narwhal]

the optimisations are baked in to the body of the guide but they should really be a seperate section

ye mage hub is insane info

[paper iron]

and the video from this dude i forgot the name

he s doing great

if u dont like reading, just 45mn of a video he explains every concept

that s a really great thing they have

drawbacks of fire mage

[upper narwhal]

[slate marlin]

No cleave?

[paper iron]

quick quick fuu, write it on sub guide, drawback of sub : no burst

but

[slate marlin]

good cleave

on pros

xdddddd

[paper iron]

xDDDDDDDDD

[shell delta]

thats epic writting tbh

[bleak night]

i mean

i'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume they meant spread cleave

[slate marlin]

arcane intellect is on drawbacks lmfao

[paper iron]

oh yea

no class stacking

right

[upper narwhal]

Mage has no other utility

[bleak night]

also they kind of just have to make shit up to fill space for that list

[paper iron]

i swear

as much as i know rogues are babycryers

that s just fact

mages are on another level

it s crazy

[bleak night]

soemtimes the shit you see in those pro/con lists are hilarious

[slate marlin]

We still cant compare to boomies

[paper iron]

yea idk if u remember in df s2

hunter had a thing like

[upper narwhal]

tbf boomies have a right to complain rn

[paper iron]

pro : does constant damage
Cons : does no damange

[slate marlin]

boomies will be meta in every type of content and will cry for buffs

[paper iron]

u do constant no damagte

cant let u say that

boomie is down bad since df

shit is either good in raid or aoe

(mostly in aoe)

[bleak night]

boomkin hasnt done good st damage since df s1

but it does big aoe so it ends up being good in m+

[paper iron]

and since they made feral not troll anymore

[bleak night]

so guess you just have to be a key enjoyer

[upper narwhal]

They have the problem of choosing AoE or Singletarget in talents and can't do both, literally only ever picked for their insane spread AoE now

[paper iron]

and rdruid stroooong since SL S4

what s fun about tuning patch is

lemme find it

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1330259961690718369/1352786783989141618/Sf0B2Pt.png?ex=67dff11e&is=67de9f9e&hm=0c51095130440a5358ae899b553c03c61e363bea7de27b68537d9ab67a4c1de7&

well they still cant process that a 8% damage buff on arcane doesnt impact trinkets / embellish / blablabla, so it s not 8% raw, but it s still more than boomie

[white sapphire]

hey anyone down to log review a 14 dfc, im doing shit dmg not sure what im doing wrong

[round latch]

yeah its conntradicting

bro so happy from being OP again he writes weird stuff

[paper iron]

it must be a typo something he forgot to switch from last patch or idk

i excuse toegrinder

just because he has a cool name

is raidbot updated with trinket hotfix already?

[round latch]

manather ftw

no clue

[twilit phoenix]

Damn sin chat is literally pissing and shitting themselves

What a 3% aura buff does to a mf

[paper iron]

dont go into devoker chat

it s the worst thing i ve never seen

noone understand why they re getting buff in there 🤘

so they vibe

[ornate lake]

Assa should get a nerf to AoE and and equal ST buff

Assa ST is hopeless

[twilit phoenix]

Sin boomers stay coping I guess

[ornate lake]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[round latch]

you have went worse

[ornate lake]

I've been forced to play sub

[dry plank]

Idk I don’t want to play sin another season, I’m better reroll

[lilac stag]

👉🏻🚪

[keen dome]

If you don't want to play Sin and want to play Sub, why not just play Sub?

[paper iron]

if u dont want to play sin and want to play sub, why not just play fire?

[twilit phoenix]

For real if it ends up being sin as the giga ahead spec

I’ll just play lock

[full wyvern]

I’ll just go feral if I want to play sin

[jaunty heath]

That’s a wide reach

Coming from arminferal

[keen dome]

I'm going to play Sub rogue forever

[jaunty heath]

As long as it stays the way it is, same

I prob wouldn’t play flatline sub

[warm folio]

does anyone know the % difference in ST between using a t2 battle pot and a t3 battle pot?

[quaint lodge]

No but it should be pretty easy to sim

Just do one quick sim with t2 and one with t3

[fallow bone]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quick latch]

whats yall average overall dmg in m+?

[ornate lake]

I'm just tired of playing Envenom:The game

It's that simple

The pure bleed build actually gigaslap in aoe

But has dogshit ST

When assa already has catshit ST

I don't want 15M on a pack but 900K on a boss

Sub is well balanced with it's pros and cons

[lilac stag]

then talent out of aoe and go st , play outlaw or sub. You have options.

[grave sparrow]

is there any specific % i should look on my Haste and mastery?

or soft caps

[ornate lake]

I liked the OG Assa when AoE was all about garrotes. Good times

[ornate lake]

I'm already submaxxing and I'm loving it

But I'll return to bleedmaxxing when tuning gets fixed for assa ST

[supple verge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quick compass]

what are warchests

someone said to farm them for pvp trinket

[celest ice]

shrouded suffocation in bfa

[keen steppe]

Depends on key and pullsize

[ornate lake]

Good times being the no. 2 realm rogue in bfa.

Pure assa supremacy

[lilac pendant]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mGZBXBLHJ81BxVrPaG8V6T
Anyone can help me know why this sims less?

[hazy breach]

Why would it be weird?

Also, change your legendary skipper to windsinger

[lilac stag]

Vers Master is better, especially at your ilvl.

[hazy breach]

Should also get the pvp trinket instead of honey buzzer

[lilac pendant]

NO

HONEY BUZZER MY BELOVED

https://tenor.com/view/dance-dancer-dancing-sendwishonline-bee-gif-10188730180804991438

[lilac pendant]

should i keep it on the bank or just salvage it?

[lilac stag]

save it, it’s good for assa

unless 78g is going to start you on your way to making money

[lilac pendant]

Only sub here

haha

ty for help tho ^^

Ill look into the pvp trinket but honey buzzer rly fun

[granite hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sour forum]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[calm chasm]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[frozen robin]

Yo coming back late to the season. Are we backstabbing during dance again for a stack?

[vale pine]

yes

[hollow hound]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ancient whale]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[weary shard]

why do we still get the dot rom this even if going in with cloak?

[muted agate]

thats why ams is goated

[jaunty umbra]

anti mechanic shield is what they say 🔥

[stoic granite]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome palm]

Only the first second of cloak is magical immunity, so certain mechanics can only be negated within the first second of cloak.

Not sure if that is what causes this issue with this particular mechanic but this does cause a lot of confusion

[weary crag]

beah

brah

you guys seeing the assasin buffs?

[south storm]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[versed swift]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[weary crag]

outlaw best spec or what

[sacred yarrow]

i dont think it is

[weary crag]

i think sub will still pull ahead

of assas

might be smart to gear os for outlaw

[stoic lark]

Is there anything i need to know for the on use DMG trinkets or can i Just use them on CD?

[lucid jackal]

Outlaw is the best spec just nobody plays it

[hazy breach]

You cant make me

[lucid jackal]

See

[deep estuary]

how'd i get rid of this deathstalker icon

[dry plank]

Who are these people then?

[pure jay]

all the rogues telling me outlaw is sim bait baited me D:

[plain jacinth]

Gladiator badge we use only with flag+shadowblades or normally when is up ?

[lucid jackal]

It's Sim bait, and also the best spec

[pure jay]

[lucid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/boondocks-read-rap-fans-exorcism-uncle-ruckus-gif-23038600

[cloud rover]

Wait even a better one

[cloud rover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1184888068264689756/1240403148129046539/Screenshot_2024-05-15_223846.gif

[swift crest]

is gladiator badge better than heroic transmitter

[left ledge]

sim it but it should be close

[tired hound]

for QoL alone, got to be

[void hound]

miss her

[hollow spear]

Dunno how much of these parses is the trinket going ham

[lilac stag]

They were good before finding the trinket.

[twilit phoenix]

Outlaw is the best spec, it’s also undertuned, it’s also overrated, it’s also sim bait, and it’s also overtuned

[runic sequoia]

It is wild the affix puts cdr on the internal dance CD that prevents you pressing dance during dance

[lilac stag]

You just described rogue in general.

[hollow spear]

Yeah but not that good

Sucks that outlaw hates mastery (or does it?)

[lilac stag]

Notrickz dropping the pvp build and solo cooking it helped

[lucid jackal]

Based

Outlaw is the best spec in raid rn, it's also Sim bait, and also underplayed and underrated

All these statements are true

[pure jay]

im just struggling on my sub 😦 I don't want to be a grey parser ;_;

[hollow spear]

Besides Mugzee, fights feel kinda outlaw friendly

[lucid jackal]

Extremely outlaw friendly

[hollow spear]

Send ks on cooldown friendly?

[fathom gazelle]

outlaw simming 15% ahead in st like wtf

[lilac stag]

grip it and rip it

[pure jay]

I need an outlaw weapon lol

[fathom gazelle]

yeh me2 sparks wasted :c

[pure jay]

we get another this coming week iirc

[lilac stag]

they got you to whatever prog you’ve done so not wasted

[leaden prairie]

guy

im sending outlaw

[hollow spear]

Who knows, maybe you'll craft an outlaw weapon, they nerf it, you just wasted another spark

[leaden prairie]

on spoketclubster

wait nvm

the other guy

bandit

[lean cradle]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lucid jackal]

Yeah it should be good on that fight

Just have to not ks into coins

[lost kite]

Everyone speccing out of sub already?

[vocal crypt]

sadly assa and sub has so different statweights so you cant swap from key to key :/

[hazy breach]

you can

stats doesnt matter nearly as much as people think

[vocal crypt]

Really ? I was going full into subrogue so crafted everything with Vers/mastery upgraded all of this items

[lost kite]

I mean i played sub for a week with 14k haste it 1000% held back the damage

[umbral relic]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lost kite]

Swapped the 14k haste for Vers 2 days ago and almost doubled my damage

So stats do have a pet to play

[hazy breach]

It absoluely did not

[lost kite]

Part

[hazy breach]

Sure youd do more without the haste

but its like +5-10%

[lost kite]

I mean I was doing 1.3m overal in m+ with that haste now I’m averaging 2.3-2.5

[hazy breach]

not +100%

[bleak night]

no shot you genuinely think replacing haste nearly doubled your overall in keys

[hazy breach]

Assa hates haste for keys anyway

so youll be having good stats anyway

[lost kite]

Not sure why else it could have been wasn’t even agility pieces changed

[vocal crypt]

in m+ its a lot about the comp i guess. When you burst into the pack and have 10mio dps but it took to long to finish the pull you drop really hard but as subrogue you dont want so use symbols or something for the last 10% of the mobs

[lucid jackal]

I don't push keys and I hate that sin is a passenger princess on boss damage

[hollow spear]

My money is on you just sucking for a while until you got gud

[lucid jackal]

So I will not be playing sin in keys

[vale pine]

outlaw enjoyer?

[vocal crypt]

no Weapon :/

[hollow spear]

Stats make a difference, but not as much as people seem to think

[vocal crypt]

you play mastery/crit as Assa in keys right ?

[lost kite]

Each to their own I feel like stats are rather important it’s my opinion I guess

[hollow spear]

Doesn't stop me from regemming for a 1k dps sim improvement tho

[vale pine]

it depends on how extreme of a stat diffrence we talk about

[hollow spear]

Well rather important =! a 100% dps increase

[lost kite]

I mean minor stats don’t mean too much I guess but when we are talking big numbers

It’s deff different

[vale pine]

if you have more extreme stat distribution you will see a noticable diffrence

[hollow spear]

Improving your dps by 100% by just swapping stats is impossible

[lost kite]

14k haste -> 15k Vers

[vale pine]

e.g. if you have close to no vers and mastery

[lost kite]

Was huge

[vale pine]

and a lot of haste

but these extreme stat distributions are not reasonable, you will typcially have either a good distribution between stats

[hollow spear]

Yeah but I'm sorry

1.3m overall is bad

[vale pine]

and try to get the stats that are overall favored

[hollow spear]

No matter what stats you run

[vale pine]

if you do bad damage on sub, it is likely that you missplay

the spec is punishing

[vocal crypt]

in my opinion the "hardest" spec in m+ (i only play m+)

[lost kite]

Well I guess the thing I did change is that I stopped max spreading rupture as I felt it held my cds too long

[lucid jackal]

Not until farm probs

I think if I sent outlaw this whole tier tho it'd be better

[vocal crypt]

and the most tilting when you use all cds and then have to move 💩

[lucid jackal]

[vale pine]

i think its a missed oppotuity

[lost kite]

Now if I have cds I only send 1 rupture on current target then pop cds

[lucid jackal]

Sub for oab, sin for mugzee unless p2 gets way shorter, and then probs sub again for gally

I think sin just sucks tho

The buff will be for mugzee tho so

[vale pine]

i don't know, i think 5%+ is a noticable buff

unsure how important cooldown alignment rly is on the fights

[hollow spear]

it certainly helps that you can completely turn off your brain when playing sin

[lucid jackal]

It just doesn't matter on a fight like oab

Sub can delay its symbols and dance for every reel assistant

Sin can't

Sin can't target swap if needed efficiently

Sin can't blow up the bomb set

[proven plover]

Personally my wow sub wouldnt survive another sin season

[pure jay]

to be fair easier to swap from mast/verse to crit/mast then it is haste/verse for outlaw.

[lucid jackal]

On shit like sprocket Cd's don't really matter it's just abt what spec does the most damage

Which is probably still sub xdd

[pure jay]

!log

[hollow spear]

I doubt that

[lucid jackal]

Sub gains an actual mountain of damage from mythic house of cards which nobody has

[warm marlin]

I would be playing outlaw on sprocket if I had a gearset

feel like even fatebound would do better than sub

[hollow spear]

sin and sub performed quite equal on st fights

[warm marlin]

and grapple seems very nice if u ever get assigned a far bomb

[vale pine]

i don't even have a normal/heroic version

[keen steppe]

On first boss floodgate you start with shadowblades or you wait for it when the damage amp phase is starting? Talking from +10 upwards

[lucid jackal]

Not really

[hollow spear]

so a 5% buff for sin with sub remaining unchanged

[hollow spear]

the are legit even on cauldron

[vale pine]

exactly, i pointed that out earlier too.
They are statistically equal currently before the buffs

but sub still has a more dynamic cooldown management

[hollow spear]

and cauldron is a ST fight

[vale pine]

as well as a 90 sec cycle instead of 120

both advantages that can be relevant

[lucid jackal]

This is sprocket mythic

No externals

[hollow spear]

and how many parses are there

cauldron is more significant for me

way bigger sample size for the 90th and 95th percentile

[pure jay]

i parsed a 5 on rik and idk how i managed that

[warm marlin]

you can multidot on cauldron tho

[lucid jackal]

And these are bad sub timers

[lucid jackal]

Cauldron isn't a st fight

Sprocket is a st fight

[hollow spear]

yeah, but you can also save your dance and cleave on them on sub

[vale pine]

i think its quite hard to compare

[warm marlin]

you can't really dance at 1:15 unless you are delaying flag or saving it like eleem did

[vale pine]

on a fight with 40 logs on sub

and 5 on sin

[hollow spear]

yep

[vale pine]

and then go with "max dps"

[hollow spear]

I have my money on sub

being weaker than sin on ST fights

[vale pine]

the entire problem with statistics on any of the fights in mythic is the low amount of logs

[slate fable]

would a 658 suspicious energy drink be a sim bait vs an equal ilvl wax whistle now? sims are saying energy drink is still better by .9% but already being at mastery cap and having house of cards i feel i should go with the direct damage trink instead

[vale pine]

only like the first few can be used for arguments

[hollow spear]

mythic sprocketmonger is not the basis for any argument at this point, imo

[vale pine]

and e.g. the first boss has some of the best timings for sub

yet when looking at logs

[pure jay]

where's outlaw?

[vale pine]

seems like its not beating assassiantion with worse timings

[vale pine]

🙂

[pure jay]

wild

[pine stratus]

why is outlaw doing this to us

xD

[hollow spear]

I demand an emergency hotfix

[pure jay]

im more upset that i second guessed myself and decided to commit to sub with all this happening

[vale pine]

haha

[hollow spear]

outlaw has not right to actually perform well

[slate fable]

felt lol

[stable jackal]

playing outlaw gets so boring so quick, becomes a RSI speedrun tbh

[pine stratus]

same happened to me

[vale pine]

wdym, sub does not rly change, we stay good. Its just that relative balance between rogue specs changes

[fallow nimbus]

Don't a lot of guilds delay for 2min cds?

[pine stratus]

i got out of sin, figured id play sub for a change

[pure jay]

if i wasn't struggling so bad on sub I probably wouldn't be as frustrated

[vale pine]

think it would be drowned by those that don't

[pure jay]

i hate sub as a PVE spec but want to play what's "best" for prog

[vale pine]

the first boss is doable in pugs, so you will def. have both timers

[warm marlin]

on lorrgs (even for sub) most of the logs start the burn at exactly 2mins

[vale pine]

it still is best for progress

[warm marlin]

probably has something to do with it

[vale pine]

let me look

[fallow nimbus]

I've only seen delaying for 2mins

[pure jay]

struggling to figure out what I'm doing so wrong

[vale pine]

oh, you are right, seems most start on 2 mins

[hollow spear]

the problem that sub has

[vale pine]

probably cooldown management

the spec is punishing

partly because the dev team wants it to, not because it is good design

[hollow spear]

is that on first boss there's a decent gap between 1st and 2nd burn phase sometimes

[pure jay]

a bit yea, i let dance and symbols be capped for longer then I should've

[vale pine]

first boss seems to be commonly on 2 min and 5 min

with fights typically ending after the 5 min burn

it makes kind of sense why assassiantion is overall higher than sub

[warm marlin]

sub also still ahead on boss dmg 95th pct despite that

[lucid jackal]

Why would looking at the only st boss in the raid not be the basis for evaluating how good a spec is on st

[vale pine]

we could

once we have more players

comparing 5 players

vs. 40 others

[vague schooner]

Is it worth to learn sub? Or should i stick with assa? I cant decide😭

[lucid jackal]

But outlaw is over performing despite low sample size

So this seems like a non argument

[vale pine]

is very prone to get incorrect data

wdym

[lucid jackal]

Outlaw is cranking on every single boss rn

Nobody is playing outlaw

Sin is not cranking every single boss

[blazing cypress]

OwO

[lucid jackal]

Nobody is playing sin

[vale pine]

well

[blazing cypress]

Outlaw stonks?

[vale pine]

is your argument that sub is already bad on single target?

i am not following

[lucid jackal]

My argument is sub is still the go to raid spec if you are good at rogue

[pine stratus]

just depends on fight length

[lucid jackal]

U can just play sin if u wanna play sin now

But if u can play all 3 specs for a majority of fights I'd say it's otl sub sin

Mugzee is the only boss I'd want sin

And depending on nerfs next week, mugzee might become a sub boss

[pine stratus]

if only the stats aligned

[vale pine]

hmm

i guess we will see

[pure jay]

i miss being good at rogue

[vale pine]

so your prediction is sub and sin are equal on stix after the buffs in output?

once we have a resonable amount of logs

[lucid jackal]

Again you don't look at one armed bandit and say "hmm what rogue spec is the highest st patchwork dps"

That's moronic

You play sub on the fight cuz sub is a better cooldown profile

[vale pine]

like if stix is the best st example

we can just bring it down to heroic

[lucid jackal]

Stix is a gimmick boss

You get balls and u do no damage

[pine stratus]

only because on bandit you can peak at 7-8mil dps in the first min xD

[vale pine]

and would show this balance

[lucid jackal]

Stix isn't even a st boss tho

[vale pine]

i thought you referenced stix

[warm marlin]

the add spawn timings on stix def favor sub

[small hemlock]

sprocket ?

[vale pine]

sry i seem to have missunderstood

[lucid jackal]

If you want to look at st damage you would look at sprocket

[vale pine]

which boss is the most single target boss of the raid?

[small hemlock]

@teal coral

[pure jay]

probably mugzee

[small hemlock]

sprocket

[lucid jackal]

Which this is what mythic sprocket looks like atm, with externals filtered

[shell delta]

how mugg kekw

[pure jay]

oh yea, sprocket makes sense

[vale pine]

oh sry, then lets look at it

so sin is ahead of sub on it

[cloud kestrel]

Is nible Flurry damage based off your location to the surrounding mobs? or the location of the mobs in relation to your primamary target?

[vale pine]

pre buffs

[lucid jackal]

I wouldn't look at the stats page I would look at actual rankinga

Which on heroic looks like this

[small hemlock]

but then you run into the sample size issue

[lucid jackal]

Why is the sample size issue not an issue for outlaw

[pine stratus]

but in the end, isnt consistency one of the big factor?
Like, Outlaw would likely have very similar dps regardless of fight duration no? Whereas sub Greatly varies, and sin too, to an extend

[small hemlock]

if more people play sub there will be a higher representation of them on that page

[lucid jackal]

But is an issue for sin

There's less outlaw logs than sin logs

[vale pine]

with 3x the amount of logs

[small hemlock]

just because more people with more gear will be higher up hogging the spots there

[vale pine]

there is not all outlaw

so its not as dominant

[small hemlock]

but its good to see all 3 specs represented

[lucid jackal]

I don't understand how the stats page said sin is better than the other 2 specs it makes 0 sense

[pine stratus]

only caus nobody plays it

[small hemlock]

averages

[lucid jackal]

It's literally just worse

[small hemlock]

on average therye p much the same

[pine stratus]

and what we see on top are outliers

[vale pine]

because stats

don't look at max dps

[teal coral]

Who ping what I do

[vale pine]

i guess someone wanted your intput for single target statistics

[small hemlock]

me scroll up

[lucid jackal]

Idk how u look at either of these images and say "sin is clearly the best st spec"

It literally makes 0 sense

[small hemlock]

nah he was qqing about using heroic logs in analysis

but rogue god said its ok to do

[pine stratus]

the RNG is real tho

[vale pine]

the claim is the best way to look at statistics is to literally look at the top X logs on the fight and see which spec has the highest amount of presence.

[small hemlock]

get fuud in the ass

[vale pine]

versus my claim that statistics over a higher amount of players is a more reasonable way of comparison.

[teal coral]

Heroic statistics are pretty rough yeh but if you’re looking at averages it’s fine

It’s just pretty hard to go to heroic Stix or something and go “wow look at that balance” and then go to mythic and try and apply it

But scrolling through the convo fuu is spot on

[small hemlock]

just depends i guess, was OL not the highest simming ST last season as well? but in execution it didnt work out like that

[pure jay]

is there a best way to practice sub on dummies? Our CD management is primarily have all of them available throughout the fight together right?

and some are usable outside of those windows?

[lucid jackal]

It was but it never performed as well as its performing this tier

[small hemlock]

yeah that is true

[lucid jackal]

What

Just go to the dummies and practice

[vale pine]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[vale pine]

i rly need to make a fancy picture

for this

[lucid jackal]

But yeah idk

Sin sux, good on mugzee

Noobs will flock to it

[vale pine]

will def. be interessting to see how it evolves

[quick latch]

someone so kind and could do a All-Dungeon +10 Droptimizer Sim for me pls

[lucid jackal]

No

[keen dome]

Just hold Ctrl when you hit Sim and it'll open it in a new tab.

Can do them all one by one that way

[quick latch]

good idea

[vale pine]

you can use the gear lists from #tc-research to sim it in top gear

[mint swift]

Ignore the champion part

[alpine wraith]

nice

[vale pine]

also, to avoid things being the norm, asking for someone else to sim for you isn't rly that good fit for a class discord.
Maybe askin in your guild is a good option, or sharing a raidbots account with a friend.

[vale pine]

wasn't much on pc today, probably won't be tomorrow too

[potent summit]

Bought HoC normal for 100k cause 619 transmitter fucked my life

[jaunty umbra]

good deal tbh

[potent summit]

Easy 600-700k dps more in m+ cause no mini games

Yes sir 🎉

[jaunty umbra]

i had to buy my last tpiece for 150k

[potent summit]

To be honest 500k g would have bin worth

To be free

[vale pine]

i want my house of cards

i know its just about to drop

next week for sure

[potent summit]

Well sometimes you have to do such things cause rng fucks us all

[potent summit]

You will get it. If not open the gold back

Say you don’t want to end your life and need this trinket

Say you will slurp if you get it

[pure jay]

but transmitter one of the top 2 trinkets?!

[potent summit]

Give everything to be free 😂

Yes and the mini game is fucked up

[vale pine]

it is haha

[potent summit]

JUMP 3 times

[pure jay]

wtf

[potent summit]

Collect buff

[vale pine]

simon says

[potent summit]

But where is it ?

[vale pine]

solo made a lovely pin explaining it

[potent summit]

Sometimes the ball just is somewhere in a pulg of shit

[vale pine]

but tl;dr: its atm busted, likely to get fixed soon™️

[pure jay]

im guessing in the outlaw channnel?

[potent summit]

Transmitter is a bait

[vale pine]

yes

[dry dune]

What can make someone to deal 1mil more avg hit on sec tech with same ilvl? Using sec tech after shadow dance and supercharged

[vale pine]

i think most are better off farming the pvp trinket

[potent summit]

Cause you can kill ur self with it. Sometimes you can’t find the ball

[potent summit]

Yes !

[vale pine]

like i stated in the pin

[oak grotto]

Can I send Coldblood SecTech outsite of Shadow Blades?

[vale pine]

we will always use one of these 3

and combine it with the "best" of what we have else

[potent summit]

But I think people should always use hoc or pvp

Transmitter has too much rng to fuck everything up in my opinion

[vale pine]

my orb

sometimes decides to do the weirdes things

[potent summit]

My orb just went into the floor 3 times

😂😂😂

Well more like wall

[oak grotto]

Why open with Backstab instead of Shadowstrike after Dance+SoD?

[vale pine]

premeditation

the trade off of using backstab as firts builder is low

using it later during dance would have a higher trade off

if the question is "but why use backstab in the first place?"

thats because of danse macabre and the tier set

[potent summit]

Fuu you think we get a buff in 4 weeks ?

Like 3% aura ?

[vale pine]

damage amplifiers are multiplicative and as such having so many during dance will make the one more stack of Dm aluable

[vale pine]

nope

subtlety is usually not kept as the go-to spec and the buff ensures that

[pure jay]

niceee

[vale pine]

exceptions are mostly because of other reasons

[potent summit]

They should just give us 10 stacks back and call it a day

Assa would be still stronger but we were close

And harder to play

[lucid jackal]

Rogue will get chain buffed all of farm like they did last tier

[potent summit]

Give me sec tech buff and 10 stacks

[vale pine]

we might get buffs in the next patch

if rogue performance looks statistically bad

[potent summit]

We can all play bad

All together

And make them think 😎

Let’s make a pact

[small hemlock]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

i don't rly understand blizz balancing philosophy

[potent summit]

No one does

People don’t play sub that’s why

[ornate lake]

No one does

[potent summit]

Blizz just don’t give a shit about rogues cause no one plays it

[void hound]

its probably incoherent
riot took a long long time developing a coherent philosophy on balancing and have a whole team dedicated to it

blizzard lacks resources to do the same, so the he result is messier

[ornate lake]

Paladin and Mages are Blizzard's biological child and rest are step children

[stable jackal]

is this good?

[potent summit]

Look at the patch notes they even write down why they nerf or buff. On rogues they don’t even take the time and just aura buff assa without a word 😂

[void hound]

it doesnt help that wow is very complex and high in design debt so balancing is harder since so many systems overlap

[pulsar hemlock]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

i think balancing is a hard problem

you work with so much incomplete data

i keep saying this, but we need more data

^^

[void hound]

that being said, the game is fairly balanced all things considered
even now the difference between the best and worst spec is probalby less than 15% played at the absolute highest level

[keen dome]

Data is always good, imo

[void hound]

right, riot has a ton of data and corresponding guys doing nothing but analysis

[keen dome]

And I agree that the game is pretty balanced in most cases. You hit extremes at high end, but that's such a small portion of the actual player base / enviroment that you shouldn't balance around it anyway

[void hound]

yeh

[potent summit]

Perfect keep going !!!

[void hound]

people see 3 fire mages played by liquid and falsely conclude that fire is the best spec by far
when in reality, its more like 10% above other specs at best

[limpid sage]

10% is a lot tbf

[vale pine]

riot also changed their balancing strategy

from

trying to get good balance

to lately trying to make certain champions played

[void hound]

thats up for debate
point being, that the community has very skewed views

[void hound]

yes
and they also accepted that some champs are simply not good in every skill bracket
which unfortunately took a long time

[pure jay]

best options to sim when doing dummy testing? Just remove all the raid buffs?

[olive canyon]

Hi all, what is the general guidance of using dance/sec tec outside of that blades/flag burst

i feel as though im doing something wrong in between the brust

[stark belfry]

!cd

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[lucid jackal]

I mean what do you expect balance wise to happen

Just a 20% buff to all rogue specs

[hoary lotus]

Yes

[vale pine]

pff

just buff sub by 30%

what could go wrong

[hoary lotus]

And nerf sin

[west tide]

guys i went to sleep and woke up and looked at logs and guys...i almost tricked myself into playing outlaw

last night

with a fresh mind i now see that it can only be maybe sin ill keep on playin sub

[hoary lotus]

Outlaw is bis. But ks soooo

[pure jay]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8LrgdJRBncQgtAC8gpUuze

[west tide]

sub is still ownin it on logs its competitive at least

[vale pine]

dark side is calling ^^

[west tide]

u think sin the best now bro 😦

[dry dune]

which raid boss is good for review logs?

[keen dome]

Buff backstab by 100%

[vale pine]

i think default will be sin

[keen dome]

It'd still be useless but it'd be funny

[vale pine]

with sub on some fights

where timing can make sub a better fit

[lucid jackal]

Sub is going to be better still on all fights other than mugzee

Unless p2 timer shrinks to sub gets an extra cd over sin, sin will just be stronger

[limpid sage]

I mean in a game where we chase tiny % increases 10% is a ton

[west tide]

forsure ty my head is clear now with all of your help ❤️

[limpid sage]

Like if you see a fury warr run SMF you’d think he’s trolling even though it’s like 5% dps loss

[west tide]

stay the course

[pure jay]

lets go play outlaw

[west tide]

hell naw i looked at the logs bro

[pure jay]

yea, outlaw bis bruh

[west tide]

naww

[pure jay]

we can make the jump together

[west tide]

its not the best maybe in farm ill play it ❤️

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-holding-hands-gif-8011610621230478918

[lucid jackal]

It is the best

Just nobody plays it

[pure jay]

i might open my vault as outlaw

and if the best m+ wep is in there

[west tide]

dam fr bro? cause im just loookin at the chads who do play it

[pure jay]

i'll take it as a sign

[west tide]

and if anything its competitive

and some of the logs not all are with the pirate trinket on some top ones so few notches down im sure its good though

[pure jay]

can you use warcraft logs to analyze dummy tests?

[west tide]

just umm cant afford to friggin craft

im in prison

[deep estuary]

do we only hold shadowblades cause of premed? so after we backstab during dance we can use shadowblades?

[void hound]

how impactful were the precise cuts changes?

cause i saw it and thouhgt "huh this could be good in this raid"

[lucid jackal]

I don't think u really talent it to it atm

Outlaw just does a lot of damage baseline

Talent into it for raid*

U can play it in keys

[west tide]

u swappin or are u in too deep with the sub atm for your guild

[lucid jackal]

Don't have weapon so yeah

Just gonna keep playing sub sin till farm

Next week is another craft so

[west tide]

my guild is way slower so i feel like i can do a chill swap but it just feels bad to craft and int...

[lucid jackal]

Issue is we probs kill oab this week

[void hound]

could be big for bandit tho

[lucid jackal]

Which means mugzee is next week

[west tide]

truee

[lucid jackal]

And that's a sin/sub fight

And then gally is easy af so it don't matter

[void hound]

can sin still spatter gooners?

[lucid jackal]

Probs just gonna sub for comfort

[west tide]

im on sprocket it die this week

[lucid jackal]

Yes but it's damage is worse

[void hound]

mh

[lucid jackal]

Sub has Cd's right as bombs spawn on mythic

[void hound]

with the buffs its probably bis tho

for muggee

[lucid jackal]

Probs

[void hound]

god mug zee is such a dog shit fight

[lucid jackal]

Depends if with nerfs you end up getting 1 vs 2 cd usages

[void hound]

you cheese every mechanic

[lucid jackal]

Baseline sin will probs be better

[void hound]

yeh

[lucid jackal]

Like if p2 becomes a 1:50 then sub just wins

Rn it's 2:45ish so sin is just better

2:45 + execute lust

[pure jay]

on rik when you save CD's for first wave of adds, do you pop flag on an add or time it so you just get the mastery from it and rest of the CD's on the adds?

[lucid jackal]

It also high key doesn't matter

Rogue is mega bystander for most fights lol

[void hound]

true

[void hound]

idk i just used on pull so you can get a second cd in first phase

[pure jay]

yea, lorrgs showed a lot of people saving and using immediately

[strange sail]

would you still play trickster even if it was just for first pulls (and maybe boss) in brewery=?

[lilac stag]

You always play trickster as sub

[strange sail]

even on these massive pulls (with maybe funnel?)

[lilac stag]

See above

or play assa

[glacial hinge]

You can do decent dmg in aoe, with prio target, no need to switch off trickster

[alpine wraith]

you dont want to do aoe as deathstalker trust me

[glacial hinge]

I tried the new tech, lasted a solid 2min before i gaveup on the perma target swap xD

[alpine wraith]

yea

i was going to do a key or two as DS to show people

but 10 mins in i was like fuck no

[glacial hinge]

Saw the vid, tested the numbers, felt like i was putting more work into the rotation then on the dungeon

[strange sail]

to apply the mark?
cant just evis anyway 😄

[alpine wraith]

you evis for snd sometimes yea

[lilac stag]

@alpine wraith if you put a video up. Take it down and replace it with rickroll

[alpine wraith]

it is already up for a while

[glacial hinge]

I felt like most pulls lasted less time i did evis of first few then used rest of cp on snd downtime

[alpine wraith]

but oh boi if they choose to buff DS again

instead of sub in general

[lilac stag]

Replace it with rickroll

[alpine wraith]

we are going on a warpath

[lilac stag]

Ffs

Don’t put that shit out there

We get “what about for…”

[glacial hinge]

😂😂 i feel scath tho, raises thoughts about DS or tricks xD TLDR go tricks and down worry about it 🫡😎

[brazen steppe]

!SHEET

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest hornet]

so we hard swappin sin full time now or what?

[alpine wraith]

dont ask here

we are legally blind cant read assa buffs

[lucid jackal]

U can if u want

P sure on mythic sub is still the best spec on most fights

[misty condor]

Has the apl been updated or does charged plume still suck?

[vestal escarp]

I wont say guy isnt right

Because objectively sub does its job excellently

Problem is it's not necessary

Never

[lucid jackal]

Wdym

[vestal escarp]

So RLs wont bother

Ansurek for example

Sub rog cleared platform one

And was the best at doing it

But it wasnt a make or break deal

[lucid jackal]

Uh

It kinda was early prog

[vestal escarp]

You could clear p1 without sub

[versed hazel]

Is it normal to be getting schooled on overall by fire mage and destro lock in floodgate 15

[vestal escarp]

Kek whats early prog? Week 3?

[lucid jackal]

Sub was needed early prog to blow up silken tombs and platform 1

This was also before sin buffs

[versed hazel]

like 2-3m dps difference

[lucid jackal]

Unless Ur comp was like 3 fury warriors

Like it all comes down to raid comp

But like on one armed bandit, sub does do something

Sin literally does nothing on the fight

[alpine wraith]

sin dies from the heal absorb and fire

that is something at least

[lucid jackal]

But like sin will be probably the most popular rogue spec either way

[keen dome]

Absolutely.

[lucid jackal]

Bm hunter is also the most popular hunter spec even when it's worse so

[timid pulsar]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[dry dune]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Vxa84q3FpmYJMXTf?fight=65&type=casts&source=342&view=events could someone tell me what are the worst mistakes I am doing? Seems like I could do much better

[sturdy yarrow]

is wow lagged out for anyone?

[keen dome]

Do you have Symbols of Death and Shadow Dance macro'd together?

[pure jay]

should we?

[keen dome]

No

[dry dune]

Yep, I am learning, so I wanted to make it a little bit easier till I get used to it

[lucid jackal]

Opener is wrong, macroing symbols dance, cold blood on first sectec rather than 2nd

[pure jay]

is cold blood sectec that much more on 2nd?

[lucid jackal]

It's like 2% damage to do it 2nd

[keen dome]

Also, you didn't SecTec in your second Dance window in opener. That's a huge damage loss there. I recommend having a look at the opener guide on WoWhead.

[pure jay]

oh dang

[lucid jackal]

That's the sectec with all the flag stacks

[dry dune]

Should I use vanish opener?

[pure jay]

yea makes sense

[keen dome]

You can use either. But I'd recommend focusing on getting the cadence right (I.e., Anime-charged SecTec in both windows)

[lucid jackal]

No reason to

[keen dome]

Minor optimisations are something to worry about later once you get comfy with the actual rotation in burst. Getting those SecTecs in both dance windows is really important

[dry dune]

Isn´t there exception for coup?

[lucid jackal]

Nop

[keen dome]

You always, always SecTec in Dance.

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[dry dune]

Oki. Still fighting with so many buttons to press for CDs

[keen dome]

Yeah - it'll take a bit to get comfy. Just focus on the fundamentals and getting the cooldown window comfortably executed first.

optimisations can come later.

[dry dune]

so idealy devide symbols from dance and cold blood from sectech

[keen dome]

Personally I'd say do it one step at a time. Get comfortable using Dance / Symbols seperately and worry less about the CB / SecTec thing until you can execute the burst window comfortably

[patent crystal]

when will 1:30 cds reset on death

[keen dome]

Maybe next expansion if we're really nice to blizzard?

[brittle echo]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[deep estuary]

are the trinket buffs live ?

[vale pine]

yes

[deep estuary]

live in sims i should ask

but i assume they are

[vale pine]

use latest version tho

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gritty zenith]

what is the average dps i should aim for in a dungeon?

in a +7

[lucid jackal]

Depends on dungeon, group, route

Just try to deal the most damage in Ur group

In a majority of pugs you should be imo

[gritty zenith]

in pugs i do well

but in my premade group im barley making it

2 nd

mage always has 3 billion damage overall

[lucid jackal]

Mage is very strong

[lilac stag]

you're not beating a mage

[gritty zenith]

then im between 1.9 to 2.3 b

yeah but outdpsing me by 1 billion is a bit much

[lilac stag]

focus on your strs. pump the bosses, deal aoe when you can but dont fret over it. you should make up the time with bosses going splat

[gritty zenith]

i do very well st

and im improving aoe

but the gap is insane

[lilac stag]

it be what it be, we have burst and ST. the dead time we do nothing. other specs without quite as high burst or st in keys, dont really get the dead time or nearly as low of dead time

[gritty zenith]

damn thats disappointing, i thought it was me fking up. Which could be the case cause im still learning

but i dont think im fking up my rotation that hard

just need to manage my cds

[lilac stag]

depending on key level this week cds get disjointed from trinkets unless you run the pvp badge which lines up with the reduced cds pretty nicely

[gritty zenith]

im getting teased because my class is apparently very "good" however the numbers arent numbering

[vale pine]

thats because sub is not easy

it takes time to learn

[gritty zenith]

true

[alpine wraith]

oh no my junk magnet 665 is better than energy drink

[paper iron]

Make the number numbers !

[vale pine]

just play the fight on <35% hp

[trim acorn]

can someone help me run a df dungeon

[empty cargo]

pvp trinket over ravenous honey buzzer even in m+?

[vale pine]

you absically want one active trinket always to make your big 90 sec damage windows stronger

there are only 3 trinkets for that

so you will always use one of these if you can

and the 2nd slot is very dynamic

you essentially can use most trinkets in it

and trinkets are not that far appart

so you essentially sim which one of the ones you got is the best

all the buffs did was make even more trinkets good in the 2nd slot

[copper vapor]

hello, is there a wa to know how many targets are within black powder's range ?

[vale pine]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[lucid jackal]

I just use my eyes usually

[vale pine]

last one on the list

[slender trail]

What’s the range in black powder?
If the pack in a m+ group is mostly gathered but there are a few casters still 10-15 yards out, should I try to position myself in between the pack and the casters? Or just not worry

[twilit phoenix]

built: different
dick: long
needs: special

[slender trail]

Oh I didn’t even see @copper vapor message lol

[copper vapor]

tyty, was sure i saw it somewhere couldn't find it anymore, thanks