Haha yeah
#subtlety
lilac stag
guys we didn’t get nerfed. Nor did windwalker. Amazing.
keen dome
But the first boss is free (nobody look at my damage please)
paper iron
a kill is a kill, it s mythic, not parse land (specially first weeks)
keen dome
Ye
sleek musk
whats the mastery cap for sub rogue?
swift tinsel
the moon
keen dome
i got 95 in my 2 mythic kills <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
Hell yeah
vale pine
so if you can, just get as much mastery as possible
mastery and vers ye
magic sphinx
Anyone else also sad for still using transmitter? 
Seems like house of cards is a myth in my guild, 0 drops so far
pulsar gate
does speccing into tinkers for engineering increase the succuss chance for the engi brez?
glacial tartan
Had a quick question. In your opener, do you use Shiv after Flag?
lucid jackal
You never use shiv
solemn creek
Mythic geargrinder trinket... mmm
glacial tartan
The new M+ show you using Shiv? Unless I'm missing something.
keen dome
Utility button only
short delta
!wa
wicked joltBOT
glacial tartan
Ahh okay. I haven't done a lot of these dungeons in the M+ rotation yet so I was curious. With that said, I'm assuming it's perfectly fine to spec into something other than Shiv?
keen dome
I keep forgetting to spec back into it for some of the dungeons, haha
swift tinsel
I think I always keep it out of habit lol
keen dome
I swapped it for.. something
solemn creek
What the cooldown between trinket with 2 on use?
glacial tartan
I usually run the Shroud Spec is why I was curious as I know there are some dungeons you can Shroud.
keen dome
apperently I took rushed setup??? why did I talent that..
solemn creek
15-20 sec?
steel horizon
Anyone else also sad for still using transmitter? <:F_:606874756859297802>
Do you have a heroic transmitter? If so, you can try your shot at a LFR House of cards today lol
keen dome
You can get it so quickly even if you lose everything in pvp, too
twilit phoenix
you don't even have to pvp to get the conq gear
just join a war crate group
literally takes like an hour of flying around and clicking a button
lilac stag
people just want yo be lazy
tame stone
just have perma warmode on
glass jasper
What is this crate farming i keep hearing about?
tame stone
every 20 minutes a war crate drops, winning faction gets loot - 60cp, some blood tokens and honor and rarely a pattern
keen dome
Warmode. Group a group. Farm the crates that spawn in zones that give 60 conquest
Fly around between zones. Easypeasy
tame stone
they drop even in previous expansions
sonic hamlet
If you’ve got house should you get pvp trink aswell
lilac stag
but I hate PvP 
sonic hamlet
Or nah
keen dome
Nah
steel horizon
Whats the name and ilvl of the pvp trinket?
keen dome
Something badge of Ferocity
lilac stag
It’s on bloodmallet
steel horizon
I gotta sim it
glass jasper
Do pvp have some decent neck for us?
lilac stag
It’s equal to heroic transmitter IF you are 100% perfect with activation with Sectech
hazy breach
658
lilac stag
Otherwise it’s better
hazy breach
is the ilvl it goes up to
keen dome
It's a good stepping stone off transmitter's wild ride until HoC.
autumn flame
Wait when did legendary skipper get nerfed?
sonic hamlet
Deffo worth doing time walking quest I got house from that on an alt
warm marlin
any trashmasters?
swift tinsel
Got mine last week
wish the title was unlocked after getting it, not just having it equipped
keen dome
Got mine back in BfA.
keen dome
wish the title was unlocked after getting it, not just having it equipped
You just go give it to Jani
void hound
the AOE radius from sectec is calculated around the clones right
hoary lotus
is remnant of darkness worth taking from vault
unkempt basin
depends on your options
vestal fog
wowhead says its D tier ;o
then why do you ask 🤔
keen dome
If in doubt: sim to be safe.
vestal fog
Simming is your nr 1 friend
keen dome
Because it'll let you see yourself, in your specifc circumstances, which we can't know for sure!
swift tinsel
no tell me
swift tinsel
also cut the crust off my sandwiches
hoary lotus
that's too far.
swift tinsel
that's too far.
glass jasper
also cut the crust off my sandwiches
Want to eat the crusts as sides or should I throw them away?
median nacelle
gotta love birbs
bleak night
if you appease the robots they wont spy on you
median nacelle
little scaffold
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
if you appease the robots they wont spy on you
this, and give them shiny trinkets
lilac stag
Nice cloak
twilit phoenix
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1344310834628792415/1351596900457123840/i...
Prolly cloak over dagger ngl
Dagger from raid
unkempt basin
we at 4 piece yet boys
lilac stag
not sure how
slate lantern
unless youre already unfathomably vers pilled its p good
glass jasper
I have 27% vers, doesn't like it for me either
So you are probably also vers stacked
lilac stag
personally id go cloak over dagger, but that's just me
swift tinsel
esp if you have a 675 already, agreed
lilac stag
regem and enchant for mastery/crit if needed
fallen crescent
I think I'm at like 21-22k mastery
Same
Am rocking the hero trashmaster to help with my low vers :/
hollow spear
so trashmaster is pretty nice for me
I solved that problem by crafting a cloak
swift tinsel
That's what I replaced lol
hollow spear
pvp neck was too juicy to not get
swift tinsel
my crafted cloak is just 636 tho, likely swapping lens from that to something else if I feel like it
might just swap it to neck
idk, doesn't really matter
fallen crescent
Whats the highest ilvl the pvp neck can get to?
swift tinsel
aren't they champ track?
valid vault
fallen crescent
Thats what i thought :/
chrome palm
Does crit gain a lot of value when we get more gear? Currently crit sims poorly for me, but the simulationcraft profile has ~8k compared to ~4k that i have, and it has only ~18k mast instead of ~23k that i have
is this a house of cards thing? i am using transmitter
paper iron
crit is never bad but not that good either since we re using coldblood, it devaluates crit a lot. But it s still better than haste so
keep simming and eventually it will recommand u some crit on gear
chrome palm
im asking because i got this abomination of a vault
paper iron
oof
chrome palm
neck at 675 sims 1.5k higher than a 658 pvp neck
lilac stag
sim a crafted vers mastery neck
paper iron
guess if u dont need any of this tier set pieces, cloak catalyst is vers mast i think, so that s simmable as wel
keen dome
Mythic tier is a good investment 'cos then that slot is 'done'. THe cloak we get from the catalyst this tier is mast/versa iirc so that's not too bad either but kinda mid to waste a charge on this early
chrome palm
the mythic tier is 7k gain on 658 gloves lol
at that point id just take the socket and wait for the belt
lilac stag
maxed at 678?
chrome palm
yes
chrome palm
if youre ever playing assa they have more value than a socket
aw hell nah dont put that on me
hushed roost
assassination rogue against my religion
lilac stag
no balancing this week it's gonna happen at some point
hushed roost
yeah honestly think 675 crafted neck is just the way to go
lilac stag
it is, people coping not to
keen dome
I'm still torn and will figure it out on my vault tomororw
lucid jackal
I think balance patch is gonna be disappointing for people who are expecting classes to get killed
hot dagger
Is there anywhere in this disc people look at logs? Trying to figure out why my sectec damage is usually quite a bit lower than top logs with comparable gear.
lucid jackal
I think all that'll happen is like a 5% WW nerf, maybe more if they intend to fix some of the bugs hurting its damage, and then maybe a Fire nerf
swift tinsel
I'd much rather see buffs than a bunch of sweeping nerfs
smoky vault
They should not nerf classes and probably will not, they already said they want a good baseline from now on to avoid making tier set heavy bumping.
swift tinsel
but the obvious outliers get pruned a bit, like you said nothing crazy
steel horizon
wait so why does this sim like shit? i thought it was more or less equal to transmitter
swift tinsel
Revert. Tier. Nerf.
smoky vault
Currently it's tier set that are very unbalanced between classes
swift tinsel
or bump up to 4% if not all the way back to 6%
strange shore
are we mostly holding inbetween 90 second damage windows? I'm trying to get one or two dances off inbetween but I find myself coming up sort and not getting 2 dances every 90 seconds, or am I way off and just yolo it all as it comes up LOL
lilac stag
wait so why does this sim like shit? i thought it was more or less equal to tra...
link an actual sim
smoky vault
Some classes need their core design and upgrade/rework, some need their tier set lowered, some need their tier set AND baseline rework
smoky vault
Mage and WW will have their tier set downgraded
hollow spear
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m5SdtRA251uFdj2eai9Jiu
I think sims don't like pacemaker in slot 1
smoky vault
If not, I cannot understand other decision choices
hollow spear
try again with pacemaker in slot 2
lilac stag
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m5SdtRA251uFdj2eai9Jiu
move pacemaker
steel horizon
ok ill switch em around
lucid jackal
Like I said WW probs gets a small ST nerf and then fir gets a small aoe nerf
thats my guess
smoky vault
I bet for tier sets
swift tinsel
maybe a minor arms/fury nerf in there too
hollow spear
WW by 5%, arms/fury by 3%, Fire by 3%
versed hazel
is it really a balance patch if they dont nerf warrior in some way
smoky vault
Cause they dont want to touch baseline that often now. Fire Mage without tiers set is on par with the rest
lucid jackal
I doubt warrior gets nerfed
swift tinsel
fire could just get ignite mastery scaling nerfed
smoky vault
Yeah
lucid jackal
Warrior is really good but its fine
smoky vault
Or combustion damage on 4 set lowered ...
hollow spear
well, maybe they get a free one this tier
after getting absolutely clapped last tier
versed hazel
are there any keys this season you'd play either sin or outlaw over sub?
hexed sluice
Lets go, pants in vault, Goodbye s1 set, hello s2 4pc
versed hazel
like i feel like I have a hard time putting out the kind of numbers I usually do in meadery for example, compared to other keys as sub
maybe i just suck at meadery
full wyvern
Crazy how a maxed mythic Seaforium only sims about 1.5% higher than a 645 Suspicious Energy Drink for me
glossy pivot
Can anyone tell me if it’s worth to hold onto coup until shadow dance or just use it?
swift tinsel
Crazy how a maxed mythic Seaforium only sims about 1.5% higher than a 645 Suspic...
mastery good 
smoky vault
If I would have to bet, I think Assa and Havoc could be the clear winners middle S2 cause they obviously like the current design of Havoc and if other are nerfed a bit, it could skyrocket logs. Assa for ... Obvious reasons we all know and scaling when touching it can be tricky for blizzard so it can end up OP as usual
full wyvern
mastery good <:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
yup. other 2 options were dogshit belts so I took hero track pants because that simmed 1.7% better max upraded compared to the myth trinket. Just gonna pray I get a champ track delve trinket from bountifuls or the guild gives me eye of kezan
lilac stag
and sidegrade is an upgrade as soon as you're not picking it up perfectly with sectech
hollow spear
for some reason the sim seems to think that pacemaker is an active slot
steel horizon
true
lucid jackal
If I would have to bet, I think Assa and Havoc could be the clear winners middle...
what are u talkin about?
smoky vault
Talking about results after hypothetic up/nerfs
boreal finch
Probably cloak but motherload trinket is good for m+?
lucid jackal
Why do people think assa is getting buffed..?
smoky vault
Huh
hollow spear
it's kind of a meme
smoky vault
ST need obvious changes while ensuring no impact on AoE / M+
regal hazel
new to this. for simming do i just select patchwerk 1 boss 5 min for raid and 5 bosses 1min 30 ish for mplus?
swift tinsel
all three rogue specs are fine
lucid jackal
Why would sin need buffs
vale pine
everything above me in output needs a nerf
and
everything below me is a skill issue
(it is a joke, if not obvious)
steel horizon
yeah now its showing as a sidegrade at 658
lol i just realized that the 636 simmed higher than the 645
keen dome
Perfectly balanced, as it should be
swift tinsel
surely sub needs a nerf and sin needs a buff
keen dome
the "play the flavour of rogoeu you like"
bleak night
i like how the warrior specs are also almost exactly the same
smoky vault
Hum, yeah quite good on this one indeed. People complaining a lot about sin ST in M+ (not enough 35% phase duration to make execute good enough ? Too slow to start ramping ?)
lucid jackal
Sins ST is bad in keys because sin AOE build costs a lot of talents
Its okay for a spec to be like this
vestal escarp
absolutely
swift tinsel
Yeah, its rare not to have that tradeoff
smoky vault
So it need rework to make it like other spec that doesn't sacrifice
swift tinsel
No
keen dome
It has it's niche. it's good at it. That's good.
swift tinsel
^^
keen dome
Anyway buff Sub's arms so we can use two-handers
swift tinsel
Homogenizing everything is bad for the game
lucid jackal
So it need rework to make it like other spec that doesn't sacrifice
no?
keen dome
To speak of niches again: Sub has one too in that we don't drop AoE power to do massive ST.
swift tinsel
Anyway buff Sub's arms so we can use two-handers
and make our arms realllllly long. like 20 yard long arms
lucid jackal
Sin is a good M+ spec DESPITE this glaring weakness
keen dome
Yeah
swift tinsel
Plus sin gets incredible prio damage
keen dome
You aren't there to do massive ST damage. That's someone elses job.
lucid jackal
Why would you turbo buff a specs weakness, when it's strong DESPITE its weaknesses
smoky vault
You aren't there to do massive ST damage. That's someone elses job.
Other's job who can do top AoE with no sacrifice also ?
tulip galleon
sooo pvp trinket is bis second slot? 🤔
lucid jackal
Yeah its crazy that sin is so bad on ST, and even still its one of the better specs in M+
vale pine
it is because sin is allowed to have rly strong funnel, something usually very critically looked at and quickly nerfed
swift tinsel
I love running with aoe-aligned specs bc it makes up for my crazy boss damage and good aoe
vale pine
also sin was overtuned for 2 seasons prior to this one
so people have certain expectations
smoky vault
Something wrong dunno, exécute 35% should bé Baseline whatever the talent point AoE/ST
Cause it's what makes it niche also
paper iron
rogue needing a buff is such a delusionnal statement, rogue as a whole is in the best spot a class can hope to be. Not bad enough to be desesperate for buffs, not good enough to be scared of nerf. Just perfection all 3 specs brings something different and has its flavor. What a great time to be rogue
vale pine
tuning is always a complicated topic
paper iron
and i m delusionnal but i really hope them killing mage and ww (not gonna happen they probably just slightly nerf them but not enough)
keen dome
I love running with aoe-aligned specs bc it makes up for my crazy boss damage an...
Ye, same
bleak night
nah ww is getting kneecapped for sure
swift tinsel
plus all three from heroic 95th metric are in top half of dps specs which is great
and are very, very close to each other in All Bosses
bleak night
mage will probably nerf fire but then turbo buff frost or arcane so they still on top
as is tradition
swift tinsel
that's a stellar position to be in from a rogue perspective
candid raven
nah ww is getting kneecapped for sure
Do you think so? Don't you think they would have done it for the next reset already?
bleak night
Do you think so? Don't you think they would have done it for the next reset alre...
they havent done any tuning yet
paper iron
so for raid i d say rogue is perfect rn. For m+ it s another story, we dont bring anything besides moving fast in shroud (which is fun but usless kek) and atro (lol)
bleak night
they will next reset
unless you think they just arent doing tuning whatsoever for the rest of the season
paper iron
and that s for top top top m+
vale pine
it is still funny
candid raven
unless you think they just arent doing tuning whatsoever for the rest of the sea...
Yea, that's what I'm afraid of
paper iron
there will be tuning
bleak night
absolutely 0 reason to think that
paper iron
as always
swift tinsel
thursday
bleak night
they always do tuning after race ends
swift tinsel
calling it now
paper iron
.5 will be the only time it matters
lilac stag
if anything see what the boss tuning did, and the raid buff, then tune
swift tinsel
20 March 2025 tuning pass
keen dome
if anything see what the boss tuning did, and the raid buff, then tune
Yeah I think this is the play
bleak night
ye .5 is when we actually get the meta
smoky vault
Why fire mage has execute phase sub 35% whatever the circonstances and assa should sacrifice it AoE / ST ?
candid raven
they always do tuning after race ends
That's what I thought too, but I kind of expected it to be now not in 1 week
keen dome
They're gonna see how this week goes and then tune bosses if they're still to rough
smoky vault
Serious problem here
full wyvern
wait till we get twilight dev baby
swift tinsel
Why fire mage has execute phase sub 35% whatever the circonstances and assa shou...
take it up with the sin chat
paper iron
cant wait for rogue to become a 3 buttons class after a rework in couple season, like sp / disco / boomie / mage in their last rework
swift tinsel
you're arguing apples and oranges in the banana chat
paper iron
looks like blizzard want to simplified all classes
candid raven
The fact that they haven't announced tuning yet makes me wonder
paper iron
i m still wondering what they will do to outlaw, the spec just doesnt really work in modern wow raid. But it s the spec i have the most fun with
lucid jackal
Outlaw has worked fine for the past 2 raids
jaunty heath
@hazy breach natty energy drink club 
bleak night
i m still wondering what they will do to outlaw, the spec just doesnt really wor...
5% aura nerf
candid raven
i m still wondering what they will do to outlaw, the spec just doesnt really wor...
Bring back Combat, hopefully
bleak night
vale pine
Outlaw has worked fine for the past 2 raids
probably is underrated for this one too
lucid jackal
Extremely
lilac stag
KS every 20-30 seconds can fuck off
fallow walrus
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
full wyvern
I like my 30 seconds of downtime after CDs. I can play runescape on my other monitor
hybrid prism
buffed i'm at 101% mastery and 19% vers at 649 ilvl feels good
jaunty heath
Outlaw seems pretty good for this raid honestly
At least for important bosses
Rik surely is ass but who cares
swift tinsel
are you hard locked out of generating and spending cp during ks animation
or does ks give extra cdr to make up for that
bc fuck that if its No in either case
just obtrusive
bleak night
it bad
swift tinsel
straight up losing globals on a spec like outlaw is weird design
coarse bronze
they almost made it kinda good in mop
lilac stag
last time i remember playing it was CN on 2nd to last boss
now its just nausea every 30 seconds
and wtf is that img quality
keen dome
they almost made it kinda good in mop
Is that image from MoP too
Because it's missing some pixels
coarse bronze
it's from a video from 2011
keen dome
Ahaha, hell yeah
swift tinsel
good times, good times
slim kraken
Regarding first dance, is it the case that it is good in every key, or are there keys where it really doesn't perform well?
slim kraken
Below 12s it feels garbage when the affix spawns between pulls 
12s and above it seems good
paper iron
did we change anything in the sims? Finality simming higher than ritten compared to yersteday
yea zero
he just
destroyed last boss
random hare
sub can do that dps too but u need perfect timings
paper iron
idk how, but well he just have damage for shield and for amp phase, gg
random hare
i had to send cds on pull because i was afraid of crushers
paper iron
also u died first boss and i havent seen how u managed before boss 2 and boss himself
it s where u can lose a lot of overall damage i feel like
hazy breach
No tuning this week 
alpine wraith
blizz on a bit of a vacay
paper iron
without rotten i can send symbol before backstab right?
paper iron
i have to re habit myself 
piano sub
edgy zenith
without rotten i can send symbol before backstab right?
What does this mean
swift tinsel
You'd think sending sod after bs in dance would be a gain but its not
alpine wraith
seems like it is almost neutral to just ignore rotten
jaunty heath
Nothing you bs regardless of rotten
ornate lake
Is there any boss where we DON'T pop CDs and pots on pull?
swift tinsel
so you rotten 2x strikes instead of 1 bs 1 strike
thick temple
wondering if its better to choose mythic+ bis over setpiece item because I can always get helm drops but theres no better cape than this right? Sim says the damage diff is like 2k and it alternates bt dungeon and raid
lilac stag
you can buy a helm at some point as well
thick temple
myth helm?
smoky vault
Is there any boss where we DON'T pop CDs and pots on pull?
No because there is always 1min30 X2 at minimum duration. Maybe on amp phase for some bosses in M+ if short duration. Can't see one.
shrewd shadow
wondering if its better to choose mythic+ bis over setpiece item because I can a...
Is crafted not bis anymore
lilac stag
I’m jealous of all the trash masters
swift tinsel
Is there any boss where we DON'T pop CDs and pots on pull?
rik if you're killing barrels
thick temple
crafted is bis thats true but this is best in terms of drops all around
lilac stag
It’s not
swift tinsel
Oh were you supposed to dance backstab then SoD?
nah not worth it
lilac stag
Gloves are worse than helm so those are ideally replaced instead of tier helm
alpine wraith
you can do it but it is at most neutral it seems
edgy zenith
Okay good because I sure as hell wasn’t
thick temple
you can buy a helm at some point as well
where can you buy helm, what do you mean?
swift tinsel
its neutral to worse so I wouldn't bother
swift tinsel
where can you buy helm, what do you mean?
auction house boe
lilac stag
It’s a raid boe, mythic is currently bop
alpine wraith
finality was kinda close yea
thick temple
hmm so yall suggested cloak? idk why both icyveins and wowhead say crafted is bis
alpine wraith
you can try it nothing changes in playstyle
edgy zenith
So similar/same in ST, what about AoE/keys?
lilac stag
hmm so yall suggested cloak? idk why both icyveins and wowhead say crafted is bi...
What we do and what you do are different animals. I can only offer what I would do
lucid jackal
hmm so yall suggested cloak? idk why both icyveins and wowhead say crafted is bi...
Worry about todays problems first
Not tomorrows
edgy zenith
I feel like rotten would be better, no?
random hare
No tuning this week <a:PepeLaugh:1095800605471162468>
well hes 8/8m
edgy zenith
If you game the Storm anyway
sinful depot
New build who dis? Tell me more
paper iron
yea solo back at the cooking station
finally things happening
not the shitty zac burnt food
warm marlin
1 point finality simming as a 1.1% gain 
placid elk
!wa
lilac stag
yeah but you made Zac’s brain melt
wicked joltBOT
molten citrus
i just played it in pvp along with everyone else before it got cooked
hazy breach
1 point finality simming as a 1.1% gain <:hmmge:1128012609417920562>
Seems like a lot, should be more like 0.3%
lilac stag
win win
molten citrus
sudden breach
link to new build?
hazy breach
Theres no new build for sub
gusty crescent
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
warm marlin
Seems like a lot, should be more like 0.3%
actually 0.3%
steel horizon
wondering if its better to choose mythic+ bis over setpiece item because I can a...
technically you can catalyze any myth cloak for another bis cloak
im waiting till myth cloak drops from vexie and catalyzing that
midnight geyser
why do we craft feet and back
are they just bad slots for stats
so we wanna craft
paper iron
why is it so much for my profile
alpine wraith
depends on gear etc etc
paper iron
obviously
warm marlin
<:monkahmm:585734084571955211> why is it so much for my profile
it was that much for me when i accidentally simmed with tfd
hazy breach
why do we craft feet and back
You can craft neck or bracers too if you want
And/or a ring
Whatever is the biggest upgrade for you
Belt too ig but second boss mythic drops a good belt so thats fairly achieveable later on into the season for most
alpine wraith
tfd is good for finality
keen dome
Can also cata a crit/versa belt too if it worst comes to worst
alpine wraith
tbh only fight i would not use tfd is gally because it is long
empty mesa
when do you use black powder over evis, because everything just splashes anyways do u always evis
warm marlin
<:shrugeg:1115674346120294591> You can craft neck or bracers too if you want
is there a fight u wouldn't play finality on
lucid jackal
I'm being trolled
alpine wraith
it is a bit better on st
warm marlin
only time u would really be using ss for rotten is stix right
hazy breach
is there a fight u wouldn't play finality on
Theres practically no difference
twilit phoenix
definitly rotten in dungeon slice, guess it really likes the 100% crit storm for...
how much better was 1 fin for ST?
mine was like .3% ish
but I don't see anyone actually running 1 fin on logs
keen dome
Hell yeah, Priory timer change
twilit phoenix
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vLf6Lwwe1HdhB5gThLJ8ax <@5337720728458363...
how come no one runs it then????
2% usage on like all mythic bosses
if that even
paper iron
it depends on gear and idk trendy thing
🤷♂️
we always knew finality could be an equal thing with 4p
alpine wraith
you overstimate the number of people that care about that little dmg gain
the backstap in dance is gaining traction a bit tho
twilit phoenix
backstap
keen dome
Just be like me and 'forget' to push it every time.
dusky mica
is ravenous honeybuzzer a complete bait for M+? this is 5 min 5 target myth track honey buzzer vs signet
prospect of taking a flat damage trinket scares me
tepid trellis
how come no one runs it then????
i do, but my logs a private 
hazy breach
is ravenous honeybuzzer a complete bait for M+? this is 5 min 5 target myth trac...
No, both signet and honeybuzzer are bad
tepid trellis
hazy breach
I'd recommend getting 700 conquest and buying the pvp badge until you can get your hands on house of cards
twilit phoenix
i do, but my logs a private <:Cheesin:1004094333458317332>
private logs is so sus!
hazy breach
(assuming you dont have a transmitter lying around)
dusky mica
I do not, fresh rogue. Also interested in Assa on the side, so I assume the safe bet is take Signet?
hazy breach
Signet is good for assa yes
Its not good for sub, since its effectively a 3 min trinket
dusky mica
ya that seems pretty awful
dusty pagoda
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
dusky mica
I do have myth track mastery/haste wrist as another option, but passing up a myth track trinket rn seems a bit silly
paper iron
i do, but my logs a private <:Cheesin:1004094333458317332>
the racoon keeps his treasure hidden
keen dome
that'd be rad if it did..
It's my favourite affix though because of comedy levels of versatility
twilit phoenix
oh shit haha
i'll have like 55-60% vers with that shit this week
rogue offtank meta?
keen dome
lilac stag
likely yea
hazy breach
Unironically
leaden prairie
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
crystal bone
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
sudden breach
do i use badge on cd, or line it up with flag/sblades
brisk raptor
Did they change transmitter?
crystal bone
do we need to use this macro twice in the flag 2x dance window?
brisk raptor
Ohhh it’s the affix making my cds not line up with trinket
hazy breach
do i use badge on cd, or line it up with flag/sblades
Line it up with blades
crystal bone
gotcha
lusty narwhal
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
minor wedge
Guys do you have any wa’s that track only sb sd symbols and flags?
smoky vault
You take one, you duplicate group core (often named like this), you sort it out / remove to get only those you want.
alpine wraith
pvp trinket bis in keys this week
how is the affix called in NA?
tepid trellis
sub should be banned without skyfury
alpine wraith
justice
alpine wraith
because that would make people equip the dreaded slow offhand
random hare
dude
vale pine
time for stix prog with transmitter
have fun
alpine wraith
time for stix prog with transmitter
wait are they putting you in?
gritty knot
I'd recommend getting 700 conquest and buying the pvp badge until you can get yo...
I literally never do PvP, is there a fast way to get those conquest points? I did 1 battleground but thats slow af and u need to win too....
tepid trellis
wait are they putting you in?
i meant locken
alpine wraith
you can farm crates
ah sprocket boi
best of luck he is also a bit annoying i was told
with transmitter i can feel the pain
when the ball spawns
and decides to go to africa
sullen nova
Is Ass starting to perform better than Sub in Mplus?
molten citrus
I literally never do PvP, is there a fast way to get those conquest points? I di...
do the daily bonus of every unrated queue, and farm war mode crates
gritty knot
do the daily bonus of every unrated queue, and farm war mode crates
ye will do that. still figuring out rn what those crates are tho 😄
native zodiac
i meant locken
wait with transmitter on the 2nd cd set
it is not fun if you get jump x3
gritty knot
every 15 mins
okay thx. watching a youtube video rn 😄
molten citrus
every 15 mins
afaik the timers aren't set in stone
warm marlin
how is the affix called in NA?
its the emissary
alpine wraith
yea it can get a bit krangled
molten citrus
can be 5 minutes, can be 30+
warm marlin
Xal'atath's Bargain: Voidbound
alpine wraith
thx love you
alpine wraith
i took wm off because as alliance i just get dogged
sudden breach
is it a dps loss to enter symbols/dance with max CP? vs entering with 0 and using BS as first global
shrewd lantern
Pretty sure you want to enter dance with either full cp or no cp
alpine wraith
sometimes it happens
you just sec tech if available or evis to get cdr for sec tech
sinful depot
am i hearing new build for raid?
sinful depot
whats the talent change, rotten for?
alpine wraith
1 point in finality
shrewd lantern
no more rotten?
hazy breach
on ST finality can be like 0.3% higher yes
sinful depot
finality is 2/2 for darkbrew isn't it?
molten citrus
sudden breach
rotten still for m+?
hazy breach
Well rotten applies find weakness for bp
molten citrus
Spreading FW is big
autumn glade
You can guarantee crit shuriken storm for aoe in M+ with rotten and it gives you more bp value
half comet
shrewd lantern
oh right nowadays you dont path into silent storm
hazy breach
7 or more
modest delta
how should we be simming AOE for sub
versed swift
do we hold flag + blades for 30 sec for trinkets?
modest delta
is dungeon slice fine?
hazy breach
do we hold flag + blades for 30 sec for trinkets?
No
Hold your trinkets for flag+blades
vale pine
is dungeon slice fine?
dubeon slice is fine for mythic+ estimate
jaunty heath
NA friends
Cata charge this week?
Or did they scrap it because they gave us a spark
umbral relic
!up
wicked joltBOT
umbral relic
@urban hatch enculey
spice matrix
Or did they scrap it because they gave us a spark
we got a charge
wicked urchin
Update: It's now been 5 hours and I still can't decide on my vault
ember mural
!up
wicked joltBOT
pulsar gate
depths on both weps?\
solemn lance
so with the affix in mythic plus knokcing our flag out of time with transmitter whats the play?
just hold flag for 5 -6 seconds
makes it all feel a little janky
solemn lance
I actually thought they stealth changed the tirnket CD to make us stop using it for a minute
hazy breach
depths on both weps?\
Depths +1% ST and -1% aoe compared to radiant
pulsar gate
radiant goes the other way?
hazy breach
yes
hot dagger
Does anyone know why in this log my sectec and eviserate do 5-10% less damage per cast than the top logs? Even when trying to find people with the exact same ilvl and similar trinkets etc I just can't seem to figure out why my sectecs are doing less. I know I am not doing the backstab tech for danse macabre (still figuring out how to set up my macro to do it) but even when i look at like the 95th best log for sub on that fight they wont have the 6 stack dance macabre but still have the 5-10% more damage on sectec and eviserates.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wzGpvtFKq9x3QNRn?fight=24&type=damage-done&source=21
zenith egret
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hoary lotus
Does anyone know why in this log my sectec and eviserate do 5-10% less damage pe...
Check tier procs
hot dagger
I have more than the 2nd ranked rogue (who does have house of cards and better gear so it could be that overweighs the tier set procs) And i have 3 less than the rogue I was comparing to over the course of the whole fight. Is that enough to explain 5% less dam?
cobalt edge
!wa
wicked joltBOT
clever delta
lilac stag
so with the affix in mythic plus knokcing our flag out of time with transmitter ...
Get the PVP trinket. Lines up every flag
solemn lance
the badge?
solemn lance
oh snap only 700 conquest, on it right meow
sick sand
somehow I always mess up the out-of-cds part
always lack either shadow dance or symbols for burst
solemn lance
for some reason i thought pressing my buttons harder would make i work
alpine wraith
ALWAYS GAMBLE
keen dome
twilit phoenix
ALWAYS GAMBLE
What is this?
alpine wraith
first permit in forever
it is to craft an engi mount
its been like 40000 unstable triggers
lilac stag
I had 4 inspirations and major mat returns on depths crafts today. Made like 145k with the 8 crafts and selling off shit after DE shuffle
this ain’t outlaw
press symbols 15s before pull. That’s it
thorny kestrel
finally got 4pc after 20 years. we still rupturing if we got high winning stacks and about 20 secs before flag comes back on?
misty hare
Is the Ravenous Honey Buzzer Bait? I got that on myth track which is simming higher than Ratfang toxin at hero
twilit phoenix
finally got 4pc after 20 years. we still rupturing if we got high winning stac...
It’s a very negligible optimization
Idr the percent tho
hazy breach
Is the Ravenous Honey Buzzer Bait? I got that on myth track which is simming hig...
Not really, but ratfang isnt good either
thorny kestrel
It’s a very negligible optimization
kk thanks. i'll just send unless i see 8 or some shit
with 10 secs on flag
misty hare
Not really, but ratfang isnt good either
ok, so I can't go wrong grabbing it
lilac stag
I mean it’s not great.
You can sim other heroic trinkets and see if those are better than the mythic track honey
and take something better out of the vault.
delicate wind
are there any resources on boss by boss in the raids of how to maximize dps and cds?
alpine wraith
i did some last raid and no one cared much so i stopped but best you can do is ask
pallid inlet
in CDs do you Blades/trinket/pot after the first Shadow Technique or before?
hazy breach
Think both wowhead and icy veins have them
hazy breach
in CDs do you Blades/trinket/pot after the first Shadow Technique or before?
It doesnt matter
pallid inlet
that's what I thought, but thanks for confirming
saw both and didn't know what one was "right"
thorny kestrel
huge dps increase to hold cb for 2nd sectech in cds?
hazy breach
~1%
thorny kestrel
kk ty. considering being a lazy f*ck and bad player as usual thanks!
thorny kestrel
i don't mind the bs. that's like pretty much a dead player if not. thank you
swift tinsel
Truly stinky vault, unless I get tier from raid this week I'm still rocking s1 lol
old kayak
!SOD
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
swift tinsel
3 necks, 2 belts, 2 worse helms, pacemaker, and signet
burnt crane
When in the Shadow dance state with less than 6 bubbles, do you fill it to 6 bubbles or more and use finishing move?
hazy breach
Always 6+
digital frigate
Shadowskean of the Colossus with speed, dis good?
fallow bone
The heart seems like a win, sims very similar to a mythic eye
indigo steppe
hey is anyone else having trouble with the affix this week
seems like transmitter is getting desynced
because of the CDR
its really throwing me off lol
hoary lotus
It's the affix. Solution is to do 12s.
indigo steppe
true and based
still vector
Did rogue get any nerfs? Someone said that and I didn’t read anywhere that we did.
hazy breach
Not since the raid released no
still vector
OK, that’s what I thought but someone on our guild chat was like rogues got nerve. I’m like no I don’t see that anywhere on the hot fixes.
hazy breach
They nerfed sub right before the raid came out though
still vector
yeah I knew that about the tier set and what not. Ok they’re obviously not apart of this discord so lol
lilac stag
hey is anyone else having trouble with the affix this week
Use the pvp 1 minute trinket
indigo steppe
Use the pvp 1 minute trinket
good idea i'll go farm for that
sly shore
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
paper iron
I feel most people that dont play rogue
everyone still think shroud is op and rogue is king of cc
keen dome
everyone still think shroud is op and rogue is king of cc
I'm convincing them otherwise one group at a time
crude path
anyone else know why im randomly dropping stealth after hitting vanish???
crude path
its in the start of my opener, im randomly not staying in stealth after hitting vanish, ill try to look closer if im getting a debuff
signal heath
HMM improvised seaforium pacemaker isnt great great for sub huh
looks to be the best option in the vault
crude path
oh my god is it that piece of shit trinket
hoary lotus
It's one of the best passives, yes.
lavish rose
both of my delve trinkets are simming higher i think
just need that house of cards....
leaden prairie
eleem
im supposed to send a cb dance before my second set of cd right
if i send it perfectly on cd
does it line up
i dont need to delay flag at all
leaden prairie
ok
native zodiac
or you need to delay your flag window slightly
leaden prairie
ye
ok
or just delay sec tech one finisher i guess thats not that terrible either right
alpine wraith
depends if it is 1 or 2 secs may not go inside transmitter/house
vital flax
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
native zodiac
or just delay sec tech one finisher i guess thats not that terrible either right
doubt it matters yeah
i usually just time my 2nd dance during my first cd window
exactly on the CB cd
obtuse phoenix
if you use double on use trinkets, when do you send the 2nd one? on trinket cd, or save for a dance?
alpine wraith
fuck i just killed gally hc
and my circe was on vers from then i changed gear early
rip dps
lilac stag
HMM improvised seaforium pacemaker isnt great great for sub huh
It’s a sim error. Swap trinkets on use position.
It’s one of our better trinkets
hazy breach
It should be fixed
alpine wraith
it ahs to do with some things that break it but latest/nightly should have it
the guy that made the fix posted it here or on tc the other day
molten citrus
I’ve still been seeing pacemaker mess up sims
But prolly weren’t on nightly or w/e
vital flax
Anone does logs review on here?
haughty totem
Can someone maybe help me out with my parses? I've been following guides for rotation, been trying to keep up exactly that rotation along with Hekili addon and my parses are the worst...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FM8TqJP2bGkZAxpd
What am I doing wrong? whats making me lose so much dps?
raw moat
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
mighty citrus
Can someone maybe help me out with my parses? I've been following guides for rot...
iam by far not a good player, but i can see on first glace you dont follow the guides for example from fuu
look at your opener here
hazy breach
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
mighty citrus
go to wowhead and try to understand the proper rotation first
i think this already improves a lot
after that we can go to finetuning
haughty totem
Obviously thats a good macro and a big mistake in the opener as it should only be 1
but would that continue to keep the DPS low on the other moments of the burst as well?
mighty citrus
you also dont use your dance correct
alpine wraith
that 3 tap right
lost you so much dmg
likely spero didnt look further
better to direct you to the guides and then just ask things specifically
mighty citrus
yeah he is a little sproud so
try to understand this first
this way its more efficient for you, trust 😛
alpine wraith
also in other news
the story of my life
who needs things to proc on pull or cds?
paper iron
also in other news
sophic devotion ptsd
haughty totem
@spero thanks for the link, so if I assume it correctly you you always time dance with dark rune -> make sure that secret technique is up, otherwise wait to pop dark rune/dance.
So do you also wait for dark rune if technique is not up, or do you pop it together with a dance in the middle of a fight even without technique
alpine wraith
you kinda follow a flow
depends on other things but mostly you always sectech with symbols
then dance twice on cds and one or two times in between
haughty totem
So can you use dance without dark symbols if sectech is on CD and rune on cd? or better to wait
haughty totem
If i look after the opener where I messed up the triple dark rune, I kind of keep rune + dance combo going but then sometimes I dont time Sectech with rune/dance so thats a big loss i guess
alpine wraith
like just as they get gripped you snap them with a sectech + storm bp then likely enough die so they are less than 7
mighty citrus
If i look after the opener where I messed up the triple dark rune, I kind of kee...
i recommend you to take one of the toplogs and try to understand their rotation
it will answer your questions. i tended to overcomplicate it for myself as well
limber folio
like just as they get gripped you snap them with a sectech + storm bp then likel...
even as Sin i dont even bother trying to cleave them with caustic spatter, cause they just die too fast
mighty citrus
but as a start i can really recommend the guide and take 1-2 logs to follow what these people did there
limber folio
and id rather be outside the swirlies
alpine wraith
ya that is why sub is kinda good for them
just be on top of the dk that grips
then move with him
versed hazel
If you cast sectec with 1 seconds left on sb, does it benefit from sb damage or nah?
haughty totem
@sprero thanks, I will try it out and see if that gives better results and then try to get back if it improves!
night sparrow
Hey is there a way to not get fucked by delayed stealth bar not popping ? Using a keybind for Dance + Symbols that gets replaced by Backstab from stealth bar, but what happens from time to time is that I use Symbols twice when pressing 2 times the keybind >< (idk if that's clear)
alpine wraith
dont macro dance and symbols
it is a recipe for disaster
there is a 2 button macro for stab and dance but i dont use it
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
haughty totem
BTw is outlaw easier on rotation than sub?
alpine wraith
outlaw is more hectic
versed hazel
but less cd management/tracking
haughty totem
Which one would be more noob friendly?
or both are hard and just follow the logs/guides
versed hazel
Which one would be more noob friendly?
noob to wow or outlaw/sub specifically?
versed hazel
sub will take more learning imo
mighty citrus
i doesnt really matter what you pick
versed hazel
outlaw will be more likely to give you rsi
night sparrow
dont macro dance and symbols
fuck I got so used to doing it that way ><
versed hazel
outlaw is far more reliant on rng
hollow spear
Isn't heroic galli a pot on 2nd flag angle or is that too much padding brain?
haughty totem
Thanks, I will just stick it out with sub for now!
night sparrow
I've been learning sub for 3 weeks now, what a bad idea it was lmao
alpine wraith
sub is kinda fun when you get used to it
versed hazel
check dms btw @night sparrow
chrome flax
Sub is just the best thing to play tbh
sly shore
that's upsetting
night sparrow
I like it there's just 2 main goofy things that's are frustrating af
sly shore
versed hazel
GIMME
chrome flax
You just get heavily punished if you are not close from your target for w.e reason after using Shadow Dance
paper surge
do we have a breakpoint for mastery or verse?
versed hazel
660 ilevel with priory + spare keys, i wanna in game
wicked urchin
dont macro dance and symbols
I have dance & symbols and then just symbols and it's pretty chill
versed hazel
do we have a breakpoint for mastery or verse?
best off simming
wicked urchin
i put symbols on cdreset=10 so second dance doesn't trigger it
lavish rose
what is the secret code to be let by people in keys as a 656 equipped sub rogue :DDDD
hazy breach
660 ilevel with priory + spare keys, i wanna in game
Would recommend to pvp for the badge
lavish rose
i hate this game sometimes lol
hazy breach
Its good
lavish rose
do you think people have a low opinion of sub
night sparrow
That fking stealth bar not insta popping when entering Dance + when shadowcraft procs at the exact same time you're using a finisher, so your CPs goes haaaaaa and you already pressed SS it's too late and waste a free finisher
alpine wraith
not really
lavish rose
i keep getting theater of pain but i already have a timed 9 lol
alpine wraith
just competition is super high
lavish rose
i can push it i guess
alpine wraith
from people farming gear
lavish rose
yea i get it
theres a lot of factors
maybe they want someone with thier loot spec etc
alpine wraith
i prefer to farm 10s tho
but some people dont care about 9s next week even more as you can runed 652 anyway
lavish rose
my rating is 2.1k and its so fucking hard to push it when people wont even accept you to 8s
swift tinsel
had to settle for lfr chest but we finally got 4pc
versed hazel
Would recommend to pvp for the badge <:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
is the duration of the pvp trink buff enough to cover both sectecs in sb?
alpine wraith
so they will be plagued with people farming gear
pvp trink is same duration as HoC or transmitter
lavish rose
when i get accepted its a complete brick session half the time especially on 8s plus
hazy breach
is the duration of the pvp trink buff enough to cover both sectecs in sb?
Its 15s so you just macro it to blades
Its the same as transmitter and house of cards like hacha said
versed hazel
ah fair, will check vault+hc tomorrow and pvp if not probably
alpine wraith
but yea what i recommend is do your own key so at least you can do some 10s
to get more score
lavish rose
oh damn should i actually get pvp trink if im rocking two passives
hazy breach
Yes
alpine wraith
yea that is true
slender trail
Does pvp trinket cap out at champion track?
hazy breach
It does
slender trail
Sick
hazy breach
But a 658 pvp trinket is way better than a maxed out 678 mythic priory for example
slender trail
Fair - never done pvp. Whats the easiest route to get all of this conquest? BGs?
hazy breach
Crate farming, but doing BGs and quests is fine too
wicked urchin
i asked earlier but i'm still stuck on this
limpid sage
I don't see any option of bubbling wax as weapon rune on raidbots. Do you know how it compares against ironclaw whetstone?
wicked urchin
im leaning ring over head just because of availability. i have both pieces at 658 already
they sim within 0.2%
quick latch
!wa
wicked joltBOT
silent notch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wicked urchin
ring probably makes more sense long term because it's a lot less likely i ever see it again, right?
quick latch
how can i make single ability weakauras? to see when its ready , i mean i have this but i wanna see like my big cds with a way bigger icon
https://i.imgur.com/oYraHVE.png
hazy breach
ring probably makes more sense long term because it's a lot less likely i ever s...
Ye probably, assuming the helmet isnt a way bigger dps increase right now and you want the power right now to kill X boss
wicked urchin
Ye probably, assuming the helmet isnt a way bigger dps increase right now and yo...
25k dps vs 20k dps so close enough
and our guilds pretty low rank so it'll be a while before it matters that much
limpid sage
I'd 100% take ring then
hazy breach
Theres other rings so its not like you only need that specific one
But ye prob still ring
limpid sage
pog stats
ornate heron
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.only other thought was saving a potential catalyst charge but i don't think i should worry about that too much
hazy breach
Thats also assming you dont want to play assa
If you want to play assa sometime you should prob take the trinket
But thats big stinky for sub in the short term
alpine wraith
ring is bae
young heart
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
or head maybe
wicked urchin
i'm pretty happy playing sub this tier unless some giga balancing changes happen
still relearning sub but i've always enjoyed it more
alpine wraith
well sub is mid vs the super strong but at least the gamapley is not ass
just pray they dont buff deathstalker again 2 times
wicked urchin
i am a rogue onetrick through and through
aint ever changing that
maybe if we were turbogutter
hoary lotus
Is it possible to get Mekgineer's Mindbending Headgear
wicked urchin
Nope. Just like it's not possible for me to get a belt
wicked urchin
oh, if that's a real question then yes
wicked urchin
free me from this prison
edgy zenith
Okay so finality is simming by 0.4% but loses to rotten in 7+ targets. So take finality in raid always and in keys go rotten?
alpine wraith
yes
hoary lotus
it drops from workshop yea
Only m0 or
hollow spear
It's usually not worth it to upgrade heroic pieces with gilded crests, right?
wicked urchin
Only m0 or
any
wicked urchin
It's usually not worth it to upgrade heroic pieces with gilded crests, right?
Nah, I wouldn't
Unless it's HoC or something
grave delta
It's usually not worth it to upgrade heroic pieces with gilded crests, right?
658 and chill unless its trinkets